December 17, 2025 • 32 mins
This episode of the Building Black Biz podcast features Helen Little in conversation with Andy Hyman of Second Act Theatrical Capital, created by The Industry Standard Group, giving you the opportunity to invest in Broadway’s future. Visit TheIndustryStandardGroup.com to learn more.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today we welcome Adam Heineman, Managing director of Second Act
Theatrical Capital.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
To the building Blackbiz Podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Thank you so much, it's a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
It is so good to have you. I'm Helen Little
and I'm so glad to be hosting today and having
this conversation with you.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Because we can learn a lot from you. Today.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I'm realizing that not only are you working with Second
Act Theatrical Capital, but you've got a long list of
theater credits that also include being a Tony Award winning
producer as well as a performer, director and activists.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Perfect.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I love this, So tell us about Second at Theatrical Capital.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
First, sure, so, as we call it to ATC okay
is a labor of love from a cohort of eight
bipod producers, and we really came together in the pandemic.
Of course, every industry, I think was having a reckoning
for various moments. Our industry was also sidelined because you know,
(01:05):
performing arts, the convening that is crucial and essential to
making theater was deemed inessential. So all of these folks
who were always fast paced working on a million projects
had the space and time to look inward. That created
(01:26):
a real threshold of analysis. Myself and some of my
colleagues you know, would work together, we would see ourselves,
but too often we were the one chocolate drop in
the room, in a marketing meeting, in a boardroom, navigating
(01:49):
fields where there's a lot of urgency and a lot
of antiquated practices. So when we were in this racial reckoning,
we came together really to hold space, you know, and
find affinity. But as producers, we quickly turned from conversations
(02:13):
of care to action and we asked ourselves how do
we create change and innovation in our lane? And for me,
that very much was about how do we create pathways
for economic justice? How do we create more access and
(02:34):
representation behind the scenes at the decision making levels. So
that had everything to do about our investing pipelines. So
second act, theatrical Capital is a brand new model for
people to participate in producing and investing at the commercial
broadway level.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
So what is your actual role now that it's gone
from a bunch of people sitting around thinking this would
be a great idea to taking action to actually having
a position within this organization. So what's your specific role there?
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Yeah, Well, it first started with about three years of
research and development and we were all kind of participating
in a labor of love.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
We got a lot of.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Support from some advocates in the industry, and then our
research led us into other pockets where some folks in
the security laws arena attorneys started taking note of what
we were doing because we were disrupting these models that
haven't been updated in decades and such. So we ended
(03:44):
up getting some really remarkable pro bona support from some
amazing allies in that law field, and that allowed us
to organize and structure this initiative into an actual business,
into an organization that creates a subsidiary that houses people
to come in and create collective economic pools of investment together.
(04:10):
So my position as manning managing director might be most
closely akin to the managing director of a venture fund
or a company that is bringing in LPs or stakeholders
to participate in the specific market. Our market is broadway.
(04:31):
It's an untapped industry that's often very closed and has
a lot of barriers to entry.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
So that's why I think it's exciting.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
That is exciting and fascinating, And you know, did you
foresee that this is where your career was going. Where
did where did your career start? And how did you
manage to get where you are now? I mean, did
you have that vision or did you kind of fall
into it?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
I love hell and we're going to go back.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Okay, welcome. So I had a career as many people
in the arts. I call it like a portfolio career.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
My curiosities led me into different opportunities, but my passions
and talent rooted me in this form. I a You know,
many folks who enter the field as performers like I did,
came from conservatory training, so they were just studying in college,
(05:30):
you know, their acting training, or their vocal performance, or
their dance. I went to a liberal arts school, so
how I was involved with the arts was very much
about creating my own path. I was running our student
dance company, I was managing the student theater company. We
(05:50):
were organizing rehearsal spaces. What I didn't know was while
I was honing my craft as a performer, I was
also taking on response abilities of facilitation and producing. So
that created a type of propensity to be involved with
all of these different pain points in the collaboration of
(06:13):
theater making, which I think set me apart a little
bit different than the folks I was in dressing rooms
with and dancing on Broadway and moving from show to
show because I was curious, because I was asking questions
about the models that we were in, because I was
wondering about contracts and why things were being offered and
(06:34):
who knew what.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
And when I made.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
My Broadway debut, I thought I was going to be
an expert in all things Broadway right away, but that
was not the case. There's a lot of there's a
lack of transparency. And then I started realizing that doesn't
just extend to the folks you see on stage, it's
also some of the creatives. I remember having a conversation
(06:57):
with my Broadway director, and that person didn't exactly know
the profit participation for this Broadway enterprise.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
They didn't exactly know.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Who got what and what the split is when you
recoup investment and how that waterfall is shared. So then
my curiosities just led me into networking and wanting to
kind of get a you know, street education on it,
because this type of work is passed.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
On in a kind of mentorship way.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
There's no real programs and degrees you can get in
in theater producing and management. There are only a couple
in the country, so I started reaching out and networking,
and then a lot of my teaching artist work led
me into other areas of collaboration. So I started saying, hey,
(07:56):
I might not be a Broadway producer right now, but
I can help my playwright friend structure or reading. I
can get hands on experiences setting up small projects.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
And I allowed.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
My you know, values to bring me into mission alignment
and very quickly. Because it's a small industry, you start
to see who you have synergy with and who you
want to continue to work with. And I would say
the big shift came for me personally. I don't think
(08:34):
it's it's unsimilar to folks stepping into the commercial side
of Broadway, but fundraising is a big catalyst to how
you can navigate and maybe level up. So once I
started fundraising and doing that successfully, you know, they're like sharks.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
In the water.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
They're like, oh, you can raise money, right, So you
get opportunities and that's when discernment became important for me
and really being methodical about where I'm an advocate, what art,
what project is right for me as a producer to
(09:15):
take on. There's a ton of great, exciting work being done,
great art, but not every project is right for you.
So that's when I started making clear decisions about how
to navigate the opportunities that were coming fast and quick.
So was the That was kind of the on ramp
(09:36):
into producing from a career for many years as a
performer and teaching artist.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
So you are telling such an amazing story. I mean,
it's your story, but you know, I'm sitting here like
kind of hanging on every word. And obviously storytelling is
a big part of Broadway and you've been a part
of some incredible stories, worked on shows that a diverse
and storytellers, audiences and settings. What made you choose to
(10:05):
work with the shows and the stories that you work with?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
That's a great You talked about discernment.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Yeah, I think it is about asking yourself about your why. Okay, right,
why am I the right person for this opportunity? It
looked very different when I was a performer, right, as
a black man, as a person of color. Right, when
(10:35):
you are on that other side of the commodification, it's
limited in terms of what opportunities you get, right, Yes,
so I had to figure out, Okay, this is my
brand as a performer, this is how I'm perceived on stage.
So that means I am only able to audition for
(10:56):
these types of roles that are outside of my control
on what I can even do As a producer, I'm
able to say, what do I believe in? How can
I feel the gap for representation? How can my involvement,
my support, my professional work actually realize and create something
(11:22):
that I want to see in the world instead of
waiting for an opportunity to be created for me. So
I sometimes think about that in my discernment process. How
do I not repeat myself? I don't think for me,
redundancy should be a part of my career. If I
am holding myself to accountability of excellence, that means the
(11:46):
project I take should be for that purpose and for
that moment. And then there's a new opportunity, maybe a
new story, a new community to highlight.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
So you know, you were talking about the fundraising aspect
of things, and it got my wheel saying, well, how
does this work? How does investing in second act theatrical
capital actually work? Like? Do you need to be a
banker or an investor? Can I give you a couple
of dollars, right now, do I need to be an
allc Why does it all work when you're putting money
towards a show or production.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Yeah, I'm going to try to do my best, okay,
to synthesize a very complicated kind of archaic system. Okay,
it shouldn't have to be so convoluted, but this is
part of my mission and my platform to provide transparency
(12:41):
for something that is actually wide open. The first analogy
I'll share is that Broadways kind of similar to maybe
the hospitality or the restaurant industry.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
You can open a.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Restaurant if you are a Michion awarded CIA trained chef. Right,
that's going to give you in premature, that's going to
allow you to have access and a point of view,
and you get investors to believe in this mission and
you have a whole plan.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
You can also.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Call up a franchise of a chain that you believe in,
pivot from a different industry, get some dollars together.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
And open a restaurant. Here in New York City.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
There there's a wild West kind of similarity I think
on Broadway, where there's no actual like criteria for you
to participate as a producer or an investor. It is
about the relationships and how you're navigating your experience.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Right.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
So, how Broadway in the commercial aspect is structured is
each show is like its own venture, its own startup.
A producer will option the rights to a show that
individual ip which is the script or the musical from
(14:18):
those writers, and that producer will set up a new
business an LLC where they're the managing member. They're structured
like the CEO of this new startup and under that,
in order to capitalize the show and get it to
its production phase, you are going to bring on investors investors. Currently,
(14:45):
because of this regulation and the structure of the LLC,
this is a private security. So that means the subscription
documents for investors are being offered through Regulation D.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
That is the.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Number one barrier to entry and for those of you
that don't know Regulation D through the Securities Exchange Commission,
a SEC is a type of offering an investment that's
only allowed to be offered to a quote unquote accredited investor,
someone who has above one million dollars in assets or
(15:26):
that well or who makes over two hundred thousand dollars
a year in their tax returns.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Okay, so.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
That's a barrier to entry, right, it's a it's a regulation.
D is a very you know, old system kind of
inherited from the Robber Baron situation back in the day,
where it's like all these enterprises are taking money from
people who can't afford to lose the money. Right, So
this idea of an accredited investor is, Okay, you're only
(16:00):
allowed to offer this risky investment.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Right.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Broadway is a different investing class, different opportunity, high risk,
high reward. Right, so you can only offer this thing
to people who have enough money to lose it. However,
that also creates what we realize now in the industry,
or what we should understand, is that that's creating a
(16:24):
lot of exclusion. That's creating a lot of Also, that
exclusion creates silos. Those silos create monotony, it creates a
lack of diversity.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Right.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
So if the people who are able to invest have
to meet certain criteria and are only being offered this
through direct relationship right, private offerings, that means the people
in power are going to the people that they know
with money. These are the same people. Broadway is a
(17:04):
multi billion dollar industry year in and year out, and
it is funded by only hundreds of investors. That's crazy.
I'm talking only hundreds of investors that are operating in
this market that year in and year out you might
look up articles or something on Playbill or Deadline, Othello
(17:27):
on Broadway with Denzel Washington set a new record in
box office sales. Right, the folks who are actually the stakeholders,
it's a very small community. So that is the traditional structure.
You have to be a high net worth individual and
you have to write a high check so that it
means that minimum investments on Broadway are often twenty five
(17:52):
thousand dollars or fifty thousand dollars. Okay, that's another barrier
to entry obviously. So that's the traditional model, and you
can get that from someone who is a banker, someone
who has that net worth, right, but also people invest
who are dentists, who are business owners, who come from
(18:13):
various access points. The biggest thing is whether you have
the connection to one of these producers, what the industry
standard group is doing, and through our initiative and subsidiary
second act, Theatrical Capital, is that for the first time,
(18:33):
through our work and our research and development and our
experts and security laws who have been supporting us. We've
utilized a different regulation with the SEC to open up
investment at a different threshold, and it's for the first
time open to anyone. You don't have to be an
incredit investor with a million dollars of net worth. And
(18:55):
because of that, because the idea is about how we
broad in our stakeholder pool so that the people who
are green lighting Broadway shows look like our society, so
that the work starts to actually be in relationship to
the stories and narratives that mean something to us. We're
(19:18):
also bringing down our minimum investment. I talked about that
twenty five thousand dollars fifty thousand dollars number for second
act theatrical capital to be a part of this model
of investing. Our minimum is five hundred dollars.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
That's crazy.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
We wanted to talk about. We wanted to land at
a number, and of course there's there you can you
can invest a lot more because it's about having a
pro rada equity stake right, so it's proportional to the
amount you've invested. But we thought about a minimum investment
right as the number that demands seriousness. Right, five hundred
(19:56):
dollars is an amount that is a serious amount of
money for the average person, but it doesn't remove any
professional from being involved. I think about this as you know,
a dream of mine is kind of thinking about you know,
how does every person who works and makes their living
(20:17):
on Broadway feel like they're also a stakeholder. I know
plenty of friends who work at big companies Disney and Google,
and they believe in their organization, their corporation, even the
labor that they're doing every week from their paycheck, they're
putting in investment into that stock. They're seeing where their
(20:38):
money is going because they're on the ground floor. Broadway
doesn't have that. This is the first time something very
similar can happen for all these different stakeholders. Whether you're
a stage hand, a stage manager, or even a patron
of the arts. You take your family to see a
Broadway show twice.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
A year, right, you believe in it.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
This is an opportunity for you to also be at
the decision making table.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Have you been able to bring shows to the stage
that might not have gotten the opportunity because the same old,
same old people were like, I don't know, about that
because I don't understand that community.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Yeah yeah, yeah, So I think all of us, all
of us co founders, have had that opportunity at a
various level in our proprietary shows. Because we're launching right now,
we have all of this excitement and potential to do
exactly what you're what you're talking about, bringing more folks together,
bringing a diversified and wide investor base that we can
(21:35):
bring internally. This is our market research. This is what
our investors want to see on the stage. This is
what they believe in. This is the show that they're
going to tell their friends about. That's power, that's people power.
That is that's a shift in how we tell stories
with a major cultural form like Broadway.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
That is disruptive. Right.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yes, So now that a wider swath of the population
is attending shows, because I think report from Broadway League
show that audiences are more diverse than ever, more black, Indigenous,
and people of color are attending shows, is there an
opportunity to, I guess, make it affordable for more people
(22:18):
of these communities to come and see and bring their
families because you know, actually I just priced out some tickets.
That's become our Christmas present to a show that we
want to go, And it's like, if you're taking a
family and you do dinner, and for tickets and transportation,
you're looking at one thousand dollars, which is twice of
what you said was a serious amount of money. Do
(22:42):
you think that that's something that will also not to
take away anything from paying the people who are doing this.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
I don't want to. I don't want to see that.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
But creating something where it is more accessible to people
of different income.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Levels, you're on the money. I think this kind of.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
I think that conversation is all about sustainability, okay, right,
and equipping people with the right consumer knowledge. Right. I
don't think in any you know, natural market or industry,
we're really going to remove the natural realities and influence
(23:25):
of supply demand. On Broadway, there's always going to be
the dynamic pricing that happens with the busiest moments, right Christmas, right,
like holidays. You've got a lot of tourists coming into
New York in general. Right, ticket sales are naturally going
to like reflect that supply and demand. However, there's seasonality
(23:47):
on Broadway. If we're building sustainable models that can create
ticket diversity across the season and have a really robust
plan of transparency, communication again, consumer awareness. We can inform
(24:08):
our audiences to say, when is the time that's affordable
for you to come see the show? When can we
guarantee the different access points right for you to be
able to procure tickets for this? You know, the art
should be a right for this field and form. So
(24:29):
it's about transparency, awareness and communication right sharing people that
and equipping people with a plan on how to buy
tickets at an affordable level that's right for them, instead
of oftentimes the scarcity mindset, which has people marketing only
(24:55):
to people's fear and desires of being like by now
there's or or miss out and trying to get people
to infear purchase a ticket that's more affordable or more
expensive than they can afford. It's actually saying, hey, how
about we provide the transparency and show people how they
(25:17):
can participate in this market sustainably over a long time,
because the sustainability will sort of the feel long term.
It's not about having one person spend all this money,
having a subpar experience because it doesn't feel worth the
investment and never coming back. I'd rather have someone spend
(25:43):
seventy five dollars more often on their Broadway experience than
feeling urgency and pressure to spend three hundred dollars on
a ticket because they feel like they're missing out.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Where would you like to see second act theatrical capital.
Let's say in a year and then five years, okay.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Well, in a year. We are strategically building to be
able to be placed, as you know, producers in a
couple shows where our community can diversify their investment across
that season.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Right.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
I think that's the number one thing that this time
a year from now will have our membership and all
of our investors having a real hands on experience on
multiple shows, which is important because that diversity across shows
provides a little less liability.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
On your single investment too.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
That's one of the that's one of the other things
that is I call it the trick bag in this
high barrier to entry, right, writing twenty five thousand dollars
on one show is putting eggs in one basket, right, and.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
The field has its risks.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
But if you're spreading that, because you're utilizing collective economics,
with all of our resources shared, we can spread the
wealth and mitigate our risk. So that's the initial aspect,
and then in five years from now we talk about
(27:25):
navigating a couple seasons. Hopefully these shows have done well,
we can branch out. Our relationships are building, our network
is thriving together. We're at a place where we can
start developing work. We can start instead of just saying, hey,
that's a project that feels promising, let's invest in it.
That's an opportunity five years from now where we say, hey,
(27:48):
we now have these resources to start creating and saying
who should.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
We put on? What story should we say? Who should
be in the room?
Speaker 1 (27:57):
I like that Now? Is this pretty much at this
point just New York base, because you know, there's a
theater community in Philadelphia, in Chicago and Los Angeles, in London?
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Is it? You are so good? You're so good? I'm
curious like you.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Oh, this is exactly what I'm talking about. We think
about Broadway so often colloquially as this New York centric thing,
and it creates another bubble, right, But what we also
know is that Broadbay's a global brand. You can go
to Paris and see you know, the Lion King and
(28:38):
French like.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
I saw MJ the Musical in the West End. It
was incredible because everybody had a British accent and it
was like, really neat, I saw it here too, but
saying it there was very unique, right, and I'm like,
I'm so glad I had that experience, right.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
So, I think that this form has so much potential
for bridge building, and our structure allows for anyone domestically
to participate.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Right.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Just like Broadway is supported by audience members from all
over the country and all over the world, all those
same people should be able to invest on the other
side and participate. So that's what Second Act Theatrical Capital
is doing really for the first time with access like
this ever before.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Now, if people want to know more about what you're
doing or to become involved, how do they want find
out to maybe reach your organization and begin to become
a part of something like this if they now, if
not for today, a year down the road or five
years down the road.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
Absolutely, so I would really encourage folks to check out
our work on the industry standard group dot com. Our
socials are tisg or. We also have a lot of
community engagement and educational opportunities for folks to participate. This
(30:09):
is free and open to the public because not only
do we believe in providing these economic opportunities, but also
we want to continue the work of this transparency. We
want to continue to allow not only our investors and members,
but everyone to learn about the models, to get insider
(30:33):
perspective from experts and producers at the top of the game.
So we've got fireside chat series that you can attend
and register. We have remote and zoom kind of panel
discussions and opportunities for everyone at different levels to get involved,
maybe find a new person, a new name to follow,
(30:57):
and like I said, it's a very uh small community,
so it's easy right now to.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Kind of get tapped in.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
You're only a stranger wants that's so the industry standard
Group dot com is your home base for learning about
everything that we're doing. And then you can find out
how to take advantage of the financial opportunity and the
vesting opportunity through wefunder dot com. And that's second act,
(31:28):
theatrical capital on.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
We funder we funder yes, okay, not refunder, because that's
what it sounded like at first.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
We funder we funder Adam.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
This has been amazing and I am so glad I
got a chance to talk to you. This is something
that has really just like got me thinking and and
and wanting to explore and learn more about and wanting
more people to learn about as well, because you know,
it's it's one thing to learn about a new business,
but it's another thing to learn about a new avenue,
(32:02):
which is what I have learned from you today.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Oh, thank you so much. You're so good. I love you.
Just set me up well.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
I wish you so much success and thank you for
being a part of building Blackbiz podcast.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Thank you
Today we welcome Adam Heineman, Managing director of Second Act
Theatrical Capital.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
To the building Blackbiz Podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Thank you so much, it's a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
It is so good to have you. I'm Helen Little
and I'm so glad to be hosting today and having
this conversation with you.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Because we can learn a lot from you. Today.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I'm realizing that not only are you working with Second
Act Theatrical Capital, but you've got a long list of
theater credits that also include being a Tony Award winning
producer as well as a performer, director and activists.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Perfect.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I love this, So tell us about Second at Theatrical Capital.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
First, sure, so, as we call it to ATC okay
is a labor of love from a cohort of eight
bipod producers, and we really came together in the pandemic.
Of course, every industry, I think was having a reckoning
for various moments. Our industry was also sidelined because you know,
(01:05):
performing arts, the convening that is crucial and essential to
making theater was deemed inessential. So all of these folks
who were always fast paced working on a million projects
had the space and time to look inward. That created
(01:26):
a real threshold of analysis. Myself and some of my
colleagues you know, would work together, we would see ourselves,
but too often we were the one chocolate drop in
the room, in a marketing meeting, in a boardroom, navigating
(01:49):
fields where there's a lot of urgency and a lot
of antiquated practices. So when we were in this racial reckoning,
we came together really to hold space, you know, and
find affinity. But as producers, we quickly turned from conversations
(02:13):
of care to action and we asked ourselves how do
we create change and innovation in our lane? And for me,
that very much was about how do we create pathways
for economic justice? How do we create more access and
(02:34):
representation behind the scenes at the decision making levels. So
that had everything to do about our investing pipelines. So
second act, theatrical Capital is a brand new model for
people to participate in producing and investing at the commercial
broadway level.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
So what is your actual role now that it's gone
from a bunch of people sitting around thinking this would
be a great idea to taking action to actually having
a position within this organization. So what's your specific role there?
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Yeah, Well, it first started with about three years of
research and development and we were all kind of participating
in a labor of love.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
We got a lot of.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Support from some advocates in the industry, and then our
research led us into other pockets where some folks in
the security laws arena attorneys started taking note of what
we were doing because we were disrupting these models that
haven't been updated in decades and such. So we ended
(03:44):
up getting some really remarkable pro bona support from some
amazing allies in that law field, and that allowed us
to organize and structure this initiative into an actual business,
into an organization that creates a subsidiary that houses people
to come in and create collective economic pools of investment together.
(04:10):
So my position as manning managing director might be most
closely akin to the managing director of a venture fund
or a company that is bringing in LPs or stakeholders
to participate in the specific market. Our market is broadway.
(04:31):
It's an untapped industry that's often very closed and has
a lot of barriers to entry.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
So that's why I think it's exciting.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
That is exciting and fascinating, And you know, did you
foresee that this is where your career was going. Where
did where did your career start? And how did you
manage to get where you are now? I mean, did
you have that vision or did you kind of fall
into it?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
I love hell and we're going to go back.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Okay, welcome. So I had a career as many people
in the arts. I call it like a portfolio career.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
My curiosities led me into different opportunities, but my passions
and talent rooted me in this form. I a You know,
many folks who enter the field as performers like I did,
came from conservatory training, so they were just studying in college,
(05:30):
you know, their acting training, or their vocal performance, or
their dance. I went to a liberal arts school, so
how I was involved with the arts was very much
about creating my own path. I was running our student
dance company, I was managing the student theater company. We
(05:50):
were organizing rehearsal spaces. What I didn't know was while
I was honing my craft as a performer, I was
also taking on response abilities of facilitation and producing. So
that created a type of propensity to be involved with
all of these different pain points in the collaboration of
(06:13):
theater making, which I think set me apart a little
bit different than the folks I was in dressing rooms
with and dancing on Broadway and moving from show to
show because I was curious, because I was asking questions
about the models that we were in, because I was
wondering about contracts and why things were being offered and
(06:34):
who knew what.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
And when I made.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
My Broadway debut, I thought I was going to be
an expert in all things Broadway right away, but that
was not the case. There's a lot of there's a
lack of transparency. And then I started realizing that doesn't
just extend to the folks you see on stage, it's
also some of the creatives. I remember having a conversation
(06:57):
with my Broadway director, and that person didn't exactly know
the profit participation for this Broadway enterprise.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
They didn't exactly know.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Who got what and what the split is when you
recoup investment and how that waterfall is shared. So then
my curiosities just led me into networking and wanting to
kind of get a you know, street education on it,
because this type of work is passed.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
On in a kind of mentorship way.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
There's no real programs and degrees you can get in
in theater producing and management. There are only a couple
in the country, so I started reaching out and networking,
and then a lot of my teaching artist work led
me into other areas of collaboration. So I started saying, hey,
(07:56):
I might not be a Broadway producer right now, but
I can help my playwright friend structure or reading. I
can get hands on experiences setting up small projects.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
And I allowed.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
My you know, values to bring me into mission alignment
and very quickly. Because it's a small industry, you start
to see who you have synergy with and who you
want to continue to work with. And I would say
the big shift came for me personally. I don't think
(08:34):
it's it's unsimilar to folks stepping into the commercial side
of Broadway, but fundraising is a big catalyst to how
you can navigate and maybe level up. So once I
started fundraising and doing that successfully, you know, they're like sharks.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
In the water.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
They're like, oh, you can raise money, right, So you
get opportunities and that's when discernment became important for me
and really being methodical about where I'm an advocate, what art,
what project is right for me as a producer to
(09:15):
take on. There's a ton of great, exciting work being done,
great art, but not every project is right for you.
So that's when I started making clear decisions about how
to navigate the opportunities that were coming fast and quick.
So was the That was kind of the on ramp
(09:36):
into producing from a career for many years as a
performer and teaching artist.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
So you are telling such an amazing story. I mean,
it's your story, but you know, I'm sitting here like
kind of hanging on every word. And obviously storytelling is
a big part of Broadway and you've been a part
of some incredible stories, worked on shows that a diverse
and storytellers, audiences and settings. What made you choose to
(10:05):
work with the shows and the stories that you work with?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
That's a great You talked about discernment.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Yeah, I think it is about asking yourself about your why. Okay, right,
why am I the right person for this opportunity? It
looked very different when I was a performer, right, as
a black man, as a person of color. Right, when
(10:35):
you are on that other side of the commodification, it's
limited in terms of what opportunities you get, right, Yes,
so I had to figure out, Okay, this is my
brand as a performer, this is how I'm perceived on stage.
So that means I am only able to audition for
(10:56):
these types of roles that are outside of my control
on what I can even do As a producer, I'm
able to say, what do I believe in? How can
I feel the gap for representation? How can my involvement,
my support, my professional work actually realize and create something
(11:22):
that I want to see in the world instead of
waiting for an opportunity to be created for me. So
I sometimes think about that in my discernment process. How
do I not repeat myself? I don't think for me,
redundancy should be a part of my career. If I
am holding myself to accountability of excellence, that means the
(11:46):
project I take should be for that purpose and for
that moment. And then there's a new opportunity, maybe a
new story, a new community to highlight.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
So you know, you were talking about the fundraising aspect
of things, and it got my wheel saying, well, how
does this work? How does investing in second act theatrical
capital actually work? Like? Do you need to be a
banker or an investor? Can I give you a couple
of dollars, right now, do I need to be an
allc Why does it all work when you're putting money
towards a show or production.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Yeah, I'm going to try to do my best, okay,
to synthesize a very complicated kind of archaic system. Okay,
it shouldn't have to be so convoluted, but this is
part of my mission and my platform to provide transparency
(12:41):
for something that is actually wide open. The first analogy
I'll share is that Broadways kind of similar to maybe
the hospitality or the restaurant industry.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
You can open a.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Restaurant if you are a Michion awarded CIA trained chef. Right,
that's going to give you in premature, that's going to
allow you to have access and a point of view,
and you get investors to believe in this mission and
you have a whole plan.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
You can also.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Call up a franchise of a chain that you believe in,
pivot from a different industry, get some dollars together.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
And open a restaurant. Here in New York City.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
There there's a wild West kind of similarity I think
on Broadway, where there's no actual like criteria for you
to participate as a producer or an investor. It is
about the relationships and how you're navigating your experience.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Right.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
So, how Broadway in the commercial aspect is structured is
each show is like its own venture, its own startup.
A producer will option the rights to a show that
individual ip which is the script or the musical from
(14:18):
those writers, and that producer will set up a new
business an LLC where they're the managing member. They're structured
like the CEO of this new startup and under that,
in order to capitalize the show and get it to
its production phase, you are going to bring on investors investors. Currently,
(14:45):
because of this regulation and the structure of the LLC,
this is a private security. So that means the subscription
documents for investors are being offered through Regulation D.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
That is the.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Number one barrier to entry and for those of you
that don't know Regulation D through the Securities Exchange Commission,
a SEC is a type of offering an investment that's
only allowed to be offered to a quote unquote accredited investor,
someone who has above one million dollars in assets or
(15:26):
that well or who makes over two hundred thousand dollars
a year in their tax returns.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Okay, so.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
That's a barrier to entry, right, it's a it's a regulation.
D is a very you know, old system kind of
inherited from the Robber Baron situation back in the day,
where it's like all these enterprises are taking money from
people who can't afford to lose the money. Right, So
this idea of an accredited investor is, Okay, you're only
(16:00):
allowed to offer this risky investment.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Right.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Broadway is a different investing class, different opportunity, high risk,
high reward. Right, so you can only offer this thing
to people who have enough money to lose it. However,
that also creates what we realize now in the industry,
or what we should understand, is that that's creating a
(16:24):
lot of exclusion. That's creating a lot of Also, that
exclusion creates silos. Those silos create monotony, it creates a
lack of diversity.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Right.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
So if the people who are able to invest have
to meet certain criteria and are only being offered this
through direct relationship right, private offerings, that means the people
in power are going to the people that they know
with money. These are the same people. Broadway is a
(17:04):
multi billion dollar industry year in and year out, and
it is funded by only hundreds of investors. That's crazy.
I'm talking only hundreds of investors that are operating in
this market that year in and year out you might
look up articles or something on Playbill or Deadline, Othello
(17:27):
on Broadway with Denzel Washington set a new record in
box office sales. Right, the folks who are actually the stakeholders,
it's a very small community. So that is the traditional structure.
You have to be a high net worth individual and
you have to write a high check so that it
means that minimum investments on Broadway are often twenty five
(17:52):
thousand dollars or fifty thousand dollars. Okay, that's another barrier
to entry obviously. So that's the traditional model, and you
can get that from someone who is a banker, someone
who has that net worth, right, but also people invest
who are dentists, who are business owners, who come from
(18:13):
various access points. The biggest thing is whether you have
the connection to one of these producers, what the industry
standard group is doing, and through our initiative and subsidiary
second act, Theatrical Capital, is that for the first time,
(18:33):
through our work and our research and development and our
experts and security laws who have been supporting us. We've
utilized a different regulation with the SEC to open up
investment at a different threshold, and it's for the first
time open to anyone. You don't have to be an
incredit investor with a million dollars of net worth. And
(18:55):
because of that, because the idea is about how we
broad in our stakeholder pool so that the people who
are green lighting Broadway shows look like our society, so
that the work starts to actually be in relationship to
the stories and narratives that mean something to us. We're
(19:18):
also bringing down our minimum investment. I talked about that
twenty five thousand dollars fifty thousand dollars number for second
act theatrical capital to be a part of this model
of investing. Our minimum is five hundred dollars.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
That's crazy.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
We wanted to talk about. We wanted to land at
a number, and of course there's there you can you
can invest a lot more because it's about having a
pro rada equity stake right, so it's proportional to the
amount you've invested. But we thought about a minimum investment
right as the number that demands seriousness. Right, five hundred
(19:56):
dollars is an amount that is a serious amount of
money for the average person, but it doesn't remove any
professional from being involved. I think about this as you know,
a dream of mine is kind of thinking about you know,
how does every person who works and makes their living
(20:17):
on Broadway feel like they're also a stakeholder. I know
plenty of friends who work at big companies Disney and Google,
and they believe in their organization, their corporation, even the
labor that they're doing every week from their paycheck, they're
putting in investment into that stock. They're seeing where their
(20:38):
money is going because they're on the ground floor. Broadway
doesn't have that. This is the first time something very
similar can happen for all these different stakeholders. Whether you're
a stage hand, a stage manager, or even a patron
of the arts. You take your family to see a
Broadway show twice.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
A year, right, you believe in it.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
This is an opportunity for you to also be at
the decision making table.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Have you been able to bring shows to the stage
that might not have gotten the opportunity because the same old,
same old people were like, I don't know, about that
because I don't understand that community.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Yeah yeah, yeah, So I think all of us, all
of us co founders, have had that opportunity at a
various level in our proprietary shows. Because we're launching right now,
we have all of this excitement and potential to do
exactly what you're what you're talking about, bringing more folks together,
bringing a diversified and wide investor base that we can
(21:35):
bring internally. This is our market research. This is what
our investors want to see on the stage. This is
what they believe in. This is the show that they're
going to tell their friends about. That's power, that's people power.
That is that's a shift in how we tell stories
with a major cultural form like Broadway.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
That is disruptive. Right.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yes, So now that a wider swath of the population
is attending shows, because I think report from Broadway League
show that audiences are more diverse than ever, more black, Indigenous,
and people of color are attending shows, is there an
opportunity to, I guess, make it affordable for more people
(22:18):
of these communities to come and see and bring their
families because you know, actually I just priced out some tickets.
That's become our Christmas present to a show that we
want to go, And it's like, if you're taking a
family and you do dinner, and for tickets and transportation,
you're looking at one thousand dollars, which is twice of
what you said was a serious amount of money. Do
(22:42):
you think that that's something that will also not to
take away anything from paying the people who are doing this.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
I don't want to. I don't want to see that.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
But creating something where it is more accessible to people
of different income.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Levels, you're on the money. I think this kind of.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
I think that conversation is all about sustainability, okay, right,
and equipping people with the right consumer knowledge. Right. I
don't think in any you know, natural market or industry,
we're really going to remove the natural realities and influence
(23:25):
of supply demand. On Broadway, there's always going to be
the dynamic pricing that happens with the busiest moments, right Christmas, right,
like holidays. You've got a lot of tourists coming into
New York in general. Right, ticket sales are naturally going
to like reflect that supply and demand. However, there's seasonality
(23:47):
on Broadway. If we're building sustainable models that can create
ticket diversity across the season and have a really robust
plan of transparency, communication again, consumer awareness. We can inform
(24:08):
our audiences to say, when is the time that's affordable
for you to come see the show? When can we
guarantee the different access points right for you to be
able to procure tickets for this? You know, the art
should be a right for this field and form. So
(24:29):
it's about transparency, awareness and communication right sharing people that
and equipping people with a plan on how to buy
tickets at an affordable level that's right for them, instead
of oftentimes the scarcity mindset, which has people marketing only
(24:55):
to people's fear and desires of being like by now
there's or or miss out and trying to get people
to infear purchase a ticket that's more affordable or more
expensive than they can afford. It's actually saying, hey, how
about we provide the transparency and show people how they
(25:17):
can participate in this market sustainably over a long time,
because the sustainability will sort of the feel long term.
It's not about having one person spend all this money,
having a subpar experience because it doesn't feel worth the
investment and never coming back. I'd rather have someone spend
(25:43):
seventy five dollars more often on their Broadway experience than
feeling urgency and pressure to spend three hundred dollars on
a ticket because they feel like they're missing out.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Where would you like to see second act theatrical capital.
Let's say in a year and then five years, okay.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Well, in a year. We are strategically building to be
able to be placed, as you know, producers in a
couple shows where our community can diversify their investment across
that season.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Right.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
I think that's the number one thing that this time
a year from now will have our membership and all
of our investors having a real hands on experience on
multiple shows, which is important because that diversity across shows
provides a little less liability.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
On your single investment too.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
That's one of the that's one of the other things
that is I call it the trick bag in this
high barrier to entry, right, writing twenty five thousand dollars
on one show is putting eggs in one basket, right, and.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
The field has its risks.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
But if you're spreading that, because you're utilizing collective economics,
with all of our resources shared, we can spread the
wealth and mitigate our risk. So that's the initial aspect,
and then in five years from now we talk about
(27:25):
navigating a couple seasons. Hopefully these shows have done well,
we can branch out. Our relationships are building, our network
is thriving together. We're at a place where we can
start developing work. We can start instead of just saying, hey,
that's a project that feels promising, let's invest in it.
That's an opportunity five years from now where we say, hey,
(27:48):
we now have these resources to start creating and saying
who should.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
We put on? What story should we say? Who should
be in the room?
Speaker 1 (27:57):
I like that Now? Is this pretty much at this
point just New York base, because you know, there's a
theater community in Philadelphia, in Chicago and Los Angeles, in London?
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Is it? You are so good? You're so good? I'm
curious like you.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Oh, this is exactly what I'm talking about. We think
about Broadway so often colloquially as this New York centric thing,
and it creates another bubble, right, But what we also
know is that Broadbay's a global brand. You can go
to Paris and see you know, the Lion King and
(28:38):
French like.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
I saw MJ the Musical in the West End. It
was incredible because everybody had a British accent and it
was like, really neat, I saw it here too, but
saying it there was very unique, right, and I'm like,
I'm so glad I had that experience, right.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
So, I think that this form has so much potential
for bridge building, and our structure allows for anyone domestically
to participate.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Right.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Just like Broadway is supported by audience members from all
over the country and all over the world, all those
same people should be able to invest on the other
side and participate. So that's what Second Act Theatrical Capital
is doing really for the first time with access like
this ever before.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Now, if people want to know more about what you're
doing or to become involved, how do they want find
out to maybe reach your organization and begin to become
a part of something like this if they now, if
not for today, a year down the road or five
years down the road.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
Absolutely, so I would really encourage folks to check out
our work on the industry standard group dot com. Our
socials are tisg or. We also have a lot of
community engagement and educational opportunities for folks to participate. This
(30:09):
is free and open to the public because not only
do we believe in providing these economic opportunities, but also
we want to continue the work of this transparency. We
want to continue to allow not only our investors and members,
but everyone to learn about the models, to get insider
(30:33):
perspective from experts and producers at the top of the game.
So we've got fireside chat series that you can attend
and register. We have remote and zoom kind of panel
discussions and opportunities for everyone at different levels to get involved,
maybe find a new person, a new name to follow,
(30:57):
and like I said, it's a very uh small community,
so it's easy right now to.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Kind of get tapped in.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
You're only a stranger wants that's so the industry standard
Group dot com is your home base for learning about
everything that we're doing. And then you can find out
how to take advantage of the financial opportunity and the
vesting opportunity through wefunder dot com. And that's second act,
(31:28):
theatrical capital on.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
We funder we funder yes, okay, not refunder, because that's
what it sounded like at first.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
We funder we funder Adam.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
This has been amazing and I am so glad I
got a chance to talk to you. This is something
that has really just like got me thinking and and
and wanting to explore and learn more about and wanting
more people to learn about as well, because you know,
it's it's one thing to learn about a new business,
but it's another thing to learn about a new avenue,
(32:02):
which is what I have learned from you today.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Oh, thank you so much. You're so good. I love you.
Just set me up well.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
I wish you so much success and thank you for
being a part of building Blackbiz podcast.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Thank you
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