Author, Retired Metro Drug Unit Commander Terry Sayre

The Politics of Drug Investigations Author, SNOWSTORM: Police, Politics and Cocaine with Retired Metro Drug Unit Commander Terry Sayre

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to the weekend. In this edition of The Florida
round Table, I'm Bill Mick. You can catch up with
me and our podcasts at Bill mick dot com. We're
doing something a little different on the show this week.
I don't interview a lot of authors, very few, in fact,
this week we'll make an exception for several reasons. A
couple of years ago, I dropped in as the host
of the Florida round Table with no introduction, no fanfare.

(00:27):
Nobody knew who I was, and that changes today as
author Terry Sayer joins me with his book Snowstorm, Police,
Politics and Cocaine. We'll discuss the war on drugs, what
are cops face, and the politics and power that are
always at play in real life. Before radio, I worked
for Terry Sayer. He was the commander of the Metro
Drug Unit in Charleston, West Virginia. It was the best

(00:49):
and most challenging education of my life. We dig into
that and the war on drugs in this hour the
Florida round Table, right here on the Florida News Network.

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Speaker 1 (03:05):
Glad to have you with us this weekend on the
Florida round Table. I told you in the open that
I don't often interview authors. I'm making an exception for
one who's a dear friend and one of the best
educators I had in my life. Terry Sayer was a
commander of the Metro Drug Unit in Charleston, West Virginia.
He was a Charleston policeman. I worked for South Charleston PD,
got assigned to that task force. And I'm telling you

(03:28):
best education I had in my life. Terry Sayer. Welcome,
my friend, How are you, sir? Thank you very much, Bill,
glad to be here. Your book Snowstorm, Police, Politics and Cocaine.
Something I've learned in the radio business, and I think
it translates into the police business too, is the problems
that you have in a community. They're not just isolated
to your community. People around the country experience this. And

(03:51):
we had some great days working together in the drug
unit in Charleston, and we ended up working all over
and all over the country in a lot of respect.
Let's introduce people to Harry Sayer and talk to him
a little bit about what your book's about.

Speaker 3 (04:03):
Here. Sure, Bill, thank you.

Speaker 7 (04:05):
My book is basically about what went on in Charleston
during the seventies eighties and nineties concerning cocaine, hence the
title snowstorm YEP involved the politics of the prosecuting attorney
who later became mayor of Charleston, and us helping work
the case that ended up putting him in jail. While

(04:29):
he was my boss. I was on the police department.
He was the mayor of the town at that time.
And you talk about stress, that was a lot of stress.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
No doubt, understand that completely. When'd you start on the job.

Speaker 7 (04:41):
I started at the police department in March nineteen seventy two,
started out working the Lower West Side and the projects
ended up did that for a couple of years. Went
to the tax Squad, which was a plain closed unit
that was to our goal was to catch crimes in progress,
which was mostly the robberies and felonious assaults, burglaries, breaking

(05:04):
and enterings, people stealing cars, just try to catch them
in the act. That involved a lot of steakouts, a
lot of time, a lot of nights.

Speaker 3 (05:13):
That was all night work most of the time.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
Which I enjoyed when I was on the job. You
rather work evenings and nights than anything.

Speaker 8 (05:20):
Uh.

Speaker 7 (05:20):
Yeah, it was just a lot easier to get around
town and not as many people out and who sometimes
you knew if somebody was out past a certain time
you saw them, you.

Speaker 3 (05:29):
Knew they were up to no good right sometimes.

Speaker 7 (05:31):
But then I just transitioned to transition to the drug
unit about nineteen seventy five seventy six, and I did
that for nineteen years and just saw a lot of
changes in that. You know, we went from in the
beginning six of us trying to do something about the
heroin problem in Charleston, which was pretty rampant at that time.

(05:52):
You had a lot of people overdosing and a lot
of deaths from that, and we worked those cases and
basically because a lot of people got sentenced to federal
penitentiary for lots of time, you know, forty five sixty years. Yeah,
then that discouraged a lot of people from selling heroin
in Charleston after that, So the drug community moved on

(06:14):
to cocaine. You always had marijuana cases, small ones, large ones,
small ones you tried to make into large ones right,
indoor grow cases. Those were prevalent for a while, but
the cocaine was the main drug choice.

Speaker 3 (06:31):
You always had coke. It was always.

Speaker 7 (06:32):
Consistent, whether it was in the powder form or crack
cocaine for him.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
It all evolved through time too, and you guys went
from a six man Charleston p D unit and eventually
developed this metro drug unit through a federal grant for
task forces.

Speaker 7 (06:51):
Now that started late nineteen eighty seven, early nineteen eighty eight,
just because of the crack problem and the murders, and
we interacted a lot with the US Attorney's Office and
they found this grant and we applied for it and
got it, and hopefully they still are using it today.
I believe the grant was named after a DEA agent

(07:12):
that got shot and killed in line of duty.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
Oh well, but well, it sure served us well, and
it grew the operation of drug enforcement in that region,
and it grew it strongly.

Speaker 7 (07:25):
Yeah, we went from you know, five or six people
to twelve people overnight. And we had an input from
all the departments around Charleston, you know, Nitro, Saint Albans, Dunbar,
South Charleston Sheriff's Department, we had We interacted with the
Sheriff's Department for many years anyway, but they've had somebody
there full time all the time. Sometimes they had two people,

(07:46):
right You know, so we had twelve theirs.

Speaker 1 (07:48):
Lost the association with DA ATF those guys who worked
very regularly with it was a great job.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
Yeah, the DA people all the time. Yep.

Speaker 1 (07:57):
And we're back with more on the roundtable in moments.

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Speaker 1 (10:05):
Glad you're with us this weekend on the Florida round Table,
something I don't do often. The book Snowstorm, Police, Politics,
and Cocaine. Before my career in radio, it was a
career in law enforcement. I worked for the Metro drug
unit in Charleston, West Virginia as a South Charleston cop
terre as you were mentioning all our agencies coming together,
Terry Sayer ran that drug unit and ran it. Well,

(10:27):
biggest education of my life, you said, you guys were
when you first started out, those six Charleston cops that
got together, no real training, no manual to go buy.
You had to wing it and learned it on the job.

Speaker 3 (10:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (10:39):
I guess that's what made it a lot of fun
in the beginning, just the trial and error and just
the different type of things you'd see, you know, Like
like I would tell people that we would come to
work at four o'clock in the evening there before of us,
we'd check out several hundred dollars and go hit the
clubs and try to buy drugs cold off without knowing anybody,

(11:00):
to make friends or whatever.

Speaker 3 (11:02):
Uh, what could go wrong?

Speaker 7 (11:03):
A bunch of twenty some year old guys with guns,
badges and tons of money going to the bar. Nothing
could ever go wrong, you know. I guess you know.
I'll tell you a funny story. I think it's funny.
One one good example was I think it was myself
and Randy went to a club in South Charleston. I
think it was a Space Odyssey club and we went

(11:24):
down there just for grins, and there was a state
trooper at the bar that we knew was off duty.
He was drinking and he yelled at us when we
came in. We went over talked to him, and we
know what we were doing. We we said, just hanging out,
maybe buy some drugs, whatever. And this guy came over
and said, mister so and so, I need I need
to ask you something. I need to ask you something

(11:46):
and something. And the troopers like, buddy, just go away.
I'm talking to my friends, don't bother me. The guy
comes back five minutes later. I need to ask you something.
I need to ask you something. That troopers like, I
told you, don't bother me. The guy comes back a
third time. The trooper turns around, hits a guy in
the mouth with a shot glass and tells him to

(12:06):
go stand in a corner like some little kid. So
I look at Randy, I'm like, we probably gott to
leave now, because I know the South Charleston Police has
pretty good response time to emergency calls.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
We were pretty quick there.

Speaker 7 (12:18):
Yeah, as we're leaving South Charleston Police is sliding onto
the parking lot. We go home, We don't think nothing
about it. We go to work the next day. Our
sergeant's waiting on us. He said, the chief called, said,
you guys were at a club in South Charleston last night,
and he wants you to go down and see the

(12:39):
captain of Company B and give him a statement.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
Company B being with the West Virginia State Police.

Speaker 3 (12:43):
Yes, sir, yeah, And so Randy and I look at
each other.

Speaker 7 (12:47):
We're like, oh, man, how's this going to work? Because
we're friends with that trooper. He's helped us a lot. Sure,
So on the way the Company B, we're having this
moral debate in the car. You know, what are we
going to do?

Speaker 1 (12:59):
You know, those lines could get stretched every now and
in that job.

Speaker 7 (13:02):
So it's like, well, we go down and tell the
whole story and make the captain happy and really make
this friend of ours unhappy, or we can go down
and tell him.

Speaker 3 (13:12):
Part of the story. And that's what we decided to.

Speaker 7 (13:16):
So we go down there and the captain welcomes the
see end and says, have a seat, guys, have a seat,
And he said, were you at the club last night.

Speaker 3 (13:23):
We're like, yes, sir, we were.

Speaker 7 (13:24):
Did you see the guy come up and talk to
the trooper so and so we're like, yes, sir, we did.
And he said, well, did you see the trooper hit
the guy in the mouth with shotglass? And we're like, no, sir,
we didn't didn't see that. I guess when did that happen?
He said, well, the bartender said, you were standing right there.
And we're like, well, I'm sorry, but we were in

(13:46):
the restroom of the club. And he said, well, are
you sure you're in the restroom. We're like, yes, sir,
we were. And he said, well, how big is that restroom?
I said probably, I don't know, twelve, but twelve maybe.
He said that must been the biggest restroom in the
world because there was like one hundred and fifty people
said they were in that bathroom, so I can't account

(14:08):
for the other one hundred and forty eight.

Speaker 3 (14:09):
People, but we were in there.

Speaker 7 (14:12):
Oh my goodness. So we left out of there. He
wasn't too happy, but it all seemed to work out.
They gave him a few days off and it all
worked out for everybody.

Speaker 8 (14:22):
You know.

Speaker 7 (14:22):
That was just that's how it worked out. Sometimes in
the beginning, you just trialing error and do the best
you could, and we took our beatings in court in
the beginning. There was definitely the defense lawyers had an advantage,
and it took a while to even up.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
Sometimes that's a big part of the education. Part of
it is getting the evidence right, documenting it right, and
getting it in front of the court in a manner
that's going to get a conviction. Like you said, defense
attorneys had an advantage. You guys, they didn't have anybody
to come in and train you to say here's how
to do this. You had to figure it out.

Speaker 7 (14:56):
You had to figure it out on your own. And
looking back on I spent probably a third of my
time if we were doing cases in state court, trying
to find a prosecutor to do the case, you know,
trying to get somebody interested in a drug case because
they're handling murders, robberies, people getting mugged, people breaking into homes,

(15:19):
and they had their priorities understood that in drug cases
they would say, well, that's a victimless crime. So they
didn't have a lot.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
In without considering everything boiling around it.

Speaker 7 (15:32):
Yeah, without considering the impacts that drugs were having on
all the other crimes, you know, the crimes against people,
crimes against property, and they were just shortsighted sometimes.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
Well unlike Florida, where you and I both live now,
the state attorneys make the decision on whether they're charging
somebody formally or not. You and I would go to
magistrate court, write the complaint, get the warrant, and we'd
arrest in charge these people, put them in the jail,
and then see what happened. But the prosecutor still made
the call as to how seriously they were going to

(16:06):
take it.

Speaker 3 (16:07):
Absolutely.

Speaker 7 (16:07):
You know, we had, uh we had the county prosecutor
there in the beginning, if we had somebody for selling heroin,
they were letting the complete go toy to possession of marijuana,
you know, that gout. They ended up getting that prosecutor unelected.

Speaker 3 (16:20):
Uh.

Speaker 7 (16:22):
That just happened, and we were fortunate though, Like I said,
we had a great working relationship with the U. S.
Attorney's Office, and they did. They did tons of cases
for us and Mike Carry's office especially. I mean, they
were just they were the best, had the best people.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
They did.

Speaker 7 (16:37):
I couldn't say enough good things about them. I couldn't
say enough good things about you know, the people from
the DEA. You know Jerry ron Hard, especially Tim Booker.
I could name all of them. There's about eight or
ten of them. The ATF guys, John Spidel, Dick Camp, Yeah,
Gary Sheridan, those those guys were just.

Speaker 1 (16:56):
I'm still in touch with Don Sager who worked there.
Don Sager, I mean, great people. You wouldn't know that
they were. They were federal agents. They acted like they
were regular cops, just like we were. They were on
the streets with us.

Speaker 7 (17:09):
If we were out there eight or ten or twelve
or whatever, fourteen hours, they were there with us. They
were They didn't say, well, it's five o'clock, I got
to go home. You never heard anything like that out
They were all as dedicated.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
As that was another branch of federal law enforcement that
might have rated mar A Lago at one point, but
that went home at five o'clock. Yeah.

Speaker 7 (17:29):
Absolutely, those guys were more interested. Like I used to
tell everybody it worked for me. They were more interested
in having the police at the defendant table than a defendant.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
That's the first thing you said to me when I
walked into drug unit and you had to keep that
in mind. I was assigned there as a rookie detective.
I'd been a street cop for the entirety of my career.
I'm five years in at South Charleston, eight years in total,
with the time i'd put in at Clinton before I
moved there. And that's one of the first things you
said to me is, remember those federal guys would rather

(18:01):
have you as a defendant than as a witness. So
keep your stuff together. And the education that I was
able to pick up from you the other senior guys
in that drug unit, the US attorneys that we worked with.
Of course, in short order, you sent me in one
of my early partners, off to Dea School, went to
Virginia Beach. It was horrible going to Virginia Beach for

(18:21):
two weeks. We just hated that, but a good Dea
school to get the fundamentals down and then the investigative
tactics and techniques. First deal we went on was not
a drug unit deal. It was an ATF deal. We
went to Beckley to try buy a salt off shotgun,
and you put me on the wire keeping track of
what was going on. And I must have written about

(18:42):
half a book with the notes from what happened that day.
And that was a bad thing because Terry Sayer said,
you're going to run the wire and keep the notes
a lot.

Speaker 7 (18:51):
Yeah, you didn't get a chop on that. You know
that that was important stuff. Though that was important. It's
doing undercovered, you know, the surveillance and that documentation.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
It gets you to the conclusion you want, which is
a conviction when it's over.

Speaker 7 (19:06):
I think we might have lost one case in federal
court the whole time I was there.

Speaker 1 (19:09):
I only remember one, and it was a marijuana case
and the jury thought two pounds of marijuana was personal use.

Speaker 3 (19:15):
Absolutely, that was a horrible case.

Speaker 7 (19:17):
Well, the defense lawyer brought in a drug dealer as
his expert wetness, and later on probably your later, we
ended up getting the expert wetness for the defense in
a drug deal and putting him in jail.

Speaker 3 (19:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
And that's the thing about that world. The repeat players
are there. If they don't get serious jail time, they
recycle out. It's one of the things that's frustrating about
these no bail situations you see across the country these days,
is if there is no punishment, they're in his effect
no crime.

Speaker 7 (19:49):
I couldn't imagine working today under these circumstances.

Speaker 3 (19:52):
It'd be so disheartening.

Speaker 7 (19:54):
You would almost come down to the point, why do
I want to leave the office every day? Why don't
even show up? It's not going to be any consequences.
It's like, I don't want to equate it to national
what's going on nationally in our country right now.

Speaker 3 (20:07):
But if.

Speaker 7 (20:08):
Nobody ever gets held accountable, or if nobody ever goes
to jail, and you're not going to change any behavior
of some of these people, politicians, drug dealers, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
Well. One of the things I tell people about my time,
especially in drug work, and number one was the education
always because it was an education every day. But number
two is you felt like you were doing something meaningful.
You were putting real bad guys in real prison for
real long periods of time. And you mentioned the US
Attorney's office in Charleston at the time, and it's a

(20:39):
time when five grams of cocaine of krack could get
you five years. You had a gun with you, that's
another five on top of it, and you're doing ten.

Speaker 7 (20:46):
Absolutely, those were some serious guidelines when those came out,
and we took advantage of it to get some people
off the street that we hadn't been able to get
off the street that were just one or two person
crime waves in and of themselves. They go through the
revolving door of the county system, the state system, whatever
you want to call it. And this was the opportunity

(21:08):
to get rid of a lot of people off the
street and drop the crime. I mean, if you look
at Summer Street in Charleston, West Virginia today, it's relatively
safe compared to what it was back then. I think
we made a big difference in the downtown area of
Charleston back then.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
I think that was the best part of it is
you could see the results that you were making a
difference in a lot of these communities and having the
ability with the task force to work multiple areas. We
even worked a lot of stuff out of state. My
old partner and I came down here and worked the
back end of a big marijuana case in central Florida.

Speaker 7 (21:41):
Well, I ended up sending Terry Smith. He ended up
going to Tampa on a coke deal.

Speaker 3 (21:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (21:46):
That we started in Charleston and ended up getting a
couple of people over there for some serious weight of
cocaine at the time, But that did start in Charleston.
There's a lot of cases that we just followed up everywhere.
We had the connection with the federal agencies to be
able to do that, and I feel good about that.
They trusted us and we trusted them, and it just

(22:08):
all seemed to work out for them.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
And when you get the quality work putting together and
you're putting those kind of convictions in play or rolling
those kind of bad guys into informance and getting the
bigger guy, the next guy in the chain, you show
that kind of progress that they're.

Speaker 7 (22:21):
Going to put some faith in you. Yeah, absolutely, I
think so. I think they had a lot in us.
And like I said, they were just like us. They
were just regular guys trying to do a job. And
they never said, oh, we're a federal agent and you're local.
You've never even heard anything like that out of them.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
Well, we weren't the only task force around either. I mean,
you had Steve Harper's big case that went Charleston, Columbus Peoria,
took that back through Brownsville, Texas, and eventually into Columbia.
I mean, you don't think of Charleston, West Virginia you've
got this big thing going on. But lo and behold,
we did, and we're going to talk about cops and
drugs and the politics when we continue. Stay with us.

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More than three hundred thousand of us working as one together.

Speaker 11 (25:38):
With families and loved ones, no matter where they live
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Speaker 18 (25:45):
We all come together and stand together to serve our veterans.
We stand strong united, stand with us in caring for
our veterans.

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or your race, or because you have children or a disability.

Speaker 1 (26:07):
It's so wrong, yes, But who has the power to
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Speaker 19 (26:13):
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(26:36):
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Speaker 1 (26:57):
Alliance my drug unw Boss Terry sayer with us this
weekend on The florida Round. Table I'm Bill. Mick thanks
for spending your time with us here on The Florida News.
Network his Book, Snowstorm, Police politics And, cocaine and it
led into a dark world at. Times But, terry we

(27:19):
had that task force that was put, together and you
were telling me when you were on my local, show
the crack cocaine really put these task forces in. Play
we Had President, reagan we Had Nancy reagan's war on,
Drugs President bush, following and they were throwing money at
this right and, left and we were the beneficiaries of,

(27:39):
that and so were our.

Speaker 7 (27:40):
Communities in all, Honesty oh absolutely we were fortunate. There
LIKE i said at nineteen eighty seven nineteen, eight it
start nineteen eighty eight to start The Metro Drug unit
and get everyone in The Canal valley, involved where in
the past you might have one small department try to do,
something And charleston was doing something on their. Own and

(28:02):
these drug dealers didn't respect city, limits signs or. Boundaries
they're everywhere in the, valley so we follow them into
other cities, Anyway so why not get everybody involved and
let everybody participate and try to do something about the.
Problem you, KNOW i FOUND i didn't treat anybody from

(28:23):
any other department any different than AND i treated anybody
that worked for The Charleston Police department ever worked for.

Speaker 3 (28:28):
ME i tried to treat everybody the.

Speaker 7 (28:30):
Same everybody was equal in my, eyes and everybody had
a job to.

Speaker 3 (28:34):
Do everybody showed up and did it AS.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
I think that was a big part of how you
blended us together and the way we worked together and
developed that very similar. Relationship we didn't see a difference
in anybody we were working, with and we had the
same job to, do and we shared in those responsibilities.

Speaker 3 (28:51):
Absolutely you.

Speaker 7 (28:51):
Know you, know look at you know we Had Joe,
Crawford Danny, Glasbie, Yeah Jack, jordan those guys are probably
the most prevalent ones and recall. Yourself you, know it
was just a, great great group of people and. Everybody you,
Know jack worked with The charleston. Guy you worked with
The charleston.

Speaker 3 (29:10):
Guy.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
Yeah well just, well you, guys your an agency being,
bigger could put more people into the unit because it
started out as your. Unit, anyway right my, Agency South
charleston P. D you're one hundred and fifty man. Department
i'm on a thirty man department and we don't have
thirty full but they sent me up there After Steve
young had. Left steve got promoted to, sergeant had to
go back to, working and then they put me In steve's,

(29:31):
Place AND i ended up working with several great. Guys
Chuck carpenter AND i worked together a. Lot Timmy tucker
AND i ended up being partners for a good long
period of, time and you just developed those relationships that
you learn to trust each. Other you know you've got
each other's. Back Joey crawford was my partner for a
period of time and he's now the sheriff Of Knall

(29:52):
county back.

Speaker 3 (29:53):
Home. Yeah, absolutely he's a great.

Speaker 7 (29:55):
Guy Had joey, could joe could chase most drug dealers
down back in the. DAY i MEAN i would always
Whenever joey took off after somebody that would run on
a drug deal and he would bring them. Back i'd
always tell the offender that they might be good at
the two twenty yard. Dash But joey was a four
to forty. Man he would Joe you'll catch you in

(30:16):
the turn every. Time, buddy that's exactly, right and that
would always make him. Angry But joey's a great. Guy
all those all those guys are great. Guys the guys From,
CHARLESTON i they. Were we were all like a extended
family as far AS i was. Concerned oh, Absolutely and
it was you spend so much.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
Time together because a lot of those investigations, tedious tedious
surveillance and waiting for things to fall together for.

Speaker 3 (30:42):
You and you could wait sometimes for days and nothing. Happened.

Speaker 7 (30:46):
Yeah you, Know i've had guys who work for me
get mad at me BECAUSE i would tell him that's
not a drug. Deal that guy wants to rob, you
and they'd get mad at me and then would find
out a month, Later i'd Have Steve harper come back
to me and tell, me, uh, WELL i talked to the.

Speaker 3 (31:02):
Informant they did have a. Setup they were going to
try to rob.

Speaker 7 (31:05):
Us i'm, LIKE i try to tell, you, man it
sounded like a robbery to start, with but you, know
he had to be careful and that that's that's the main.
Thing IF i was doing the undercover or you were
doing the, UNDERCOVER i always knew that the guys that
were there on the scene would have my, bike And
i'm SURE i didn't get, hurt you. Know AND i
know we did a case that started In nitro one.

(31:26):
TIME i went down there to buy like an eight
ballock of coke And, UH i had ten thousand dollars
checked out that day as a flash, roll AND i
took that with me AND i Told, JACK i, Said
i'll either scare this guy or he'll get us some
ounces of. Coke and he called a guy that In
huntington and the next day they were going to bring

(31:47):
us four ounce as of coke to The. MARRIOTT. Uh
while we were waiting on, THEM i got a call
from THE Dea Buddy, jerry And jerry Ren hardy, SAID
fbi called From. Huntington they got a wire tap going
on those. Guys that's bring you that. Coke they want
you to let the money, walk give them the eight
thousand dollars your flash.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
Rope so where's the money coming?

Speaker 3 (32:06):
From?

Speaker 7 (32:07):
Right that's WHAT i told. THEM i, said this can't
be no federal. LIFE i, Said i'm going to have
to give that money back to the city treasurer Like
tuesday at the.

Speaker 3 (32:14):
Latest HEA's like they're going to pay you.

Speaker 7 (32:15):
Back so went up meeting those guys From, huntington let
that money, walk and going down there doing another deal
for like half a pound of, Coke let that money,
walk and then ripping them off rest of them later
for a poundy. Coke and then they got another two
or three pounds of coke out of their house and
several hundred thousand. Dollars that, Was and that all started

(32:36):
over nothing In nitro on A friday. Afternoon you know it.

Speaker 1 (32:40):
Was you never knew where that small deal was going to.
Go and the overlap between. Agencies that's another thing that
The Task force brought is you had the ability to
get that. Communication, god, yes.

Speaker 7 (32:52):
Absolutely and after we worked that case and those people
In huntington went to, jail they have to guy flipped
those guys and got some mob guys out Of columbus Or,
CLEVELAND i can't remember where they were. FROM i really
didn't care because we got those. Guys but one sad
part about that case was the case agent on that
for THE fbi out To huntington was a guy Named

(33:13):
Jerry Dove, yes and he ended up getting killed In.
Miami he got promoted because of that, case, right and
then he ended up getting killed In miami and.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
The Miami bank robbery.

Speaker 3 (33:22):
Shootout dealing with those two evil.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
GUYS i Led Jerry dove's funeral profession procession From South
charleston to the cemetery In Saint albans where he was
laid to. Rest, well he was From, dunbar seven miles
of police cars Between South charleston And Saint.

Speaker 7 (33:38):
Albans, now when we were working that case with, HIM
i got to know him and found out he was From,
Dunbar West, virginia WHERE i was, from and, yeah small
town and he was just all around good guy FOR fbi.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
Guy let's talk a little bit about managing police officers
from different. Departments you've said you already treated us all.
Equally we all came from different department philosophies and backgrounds
although the job was the. Same how did you blend it? Together?

Speaker 7 (34:04):
Uh LIKE i, SAID i tried to put everybody with
an experienced person From charleston that had been there for
a while that kind of had BEEN i, guess for
lack of a better, term in the, system because you
had to know the court system at The Federal Prosecutor's.
OFFICE i mean that was something that most police officers
that came there hadn't dealt with on a regular, basis

(34:24):
and we worked with them on a daily, Basis so
that was totally different.

Speaker 3 (34:29):
DYNAMIC i think.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
Big part of the education for, me AND i loved
every bit of.

Speaker 3 (34:32):
It learned a lot.

Speaker 7 (34:33):
There you had to learn, that and it took probably
a year or two to really become. EFFECTIVE i always
thought it took about two years for somebody from the
beginning to about the two year point to where they
could figure it all out.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
And they'd walk in and they weren't bringing you crazy. Stuff, yeah,
Yeah joey AND i still.

Speaker 7 (34:51):
Did you, know we worked a lot of cases on
policemen or, sadly sadly we.

Speaker 1 (34:59):
Did you, know, hey like the rest of, society like
teachers and insurance salesmen and. Lawyers you got folks who
are going to fall off on their addiction or whatever else,
happened and it was. Set but you had to do.
It you had to have the. INTEGRITY i, mean you
did that case on That South charleston. Policeman, yeah ended
up getting two instead of. One, YEAH i, mean and we.
DID i thought about it the other, day you, know

(35:19):
we did three or Four charleston. Policemen and then and
we lost some good policemen along the. Way, yeah who
just had they had an addiction. Problem they couldn't kick
and shame on him for doing. It but we had
to do what we had to.

Speaker 7 (35:33):
Do oh, Absolutely and like you, said it takes a
you just had to have enough enough integer to do.

Speaker 3 (35:39):
It you.

Speaker 7 (35:39):
Know when we were doing the case on the, MAYOR
i Would it might sound, corny BUT i would remind,
everybody you, know remember that day when you swore to
do the, job when you signed up to be a police,
officer you know you're going to do anybody and. EVERYBODY
i hated it because the mayor was, involved you, know
the mayor of the.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
Case especially somebody who had been a great prosecutor at
his time in the prosecuting his starting's. OFFICE i, mean
he was the elected prosecutor for the.

Speaker 3 (36:05):
County absolutely he. Was he was one of the.

Speaker 7 (36:07):
Best we all indoors steam for, Prosecutor we work for,
him try to help him get. Elected, yeah and then you,
know addiction is, addiction and that just some.

Speaker 3 (36:17):
People he. Couldn't he didn't win the. Battle eventually he.

Speaker 7 (36:21):
DID i was glad he finally kicked it and you,
know but it's shame at his career ended up the
way it.

Speaker 1 (36:27):
Did, REALLY i had a couple of cases that came
out of my drug unit days and one of them
was where we had the crew that was going to
drive To parkersburg and rob another deal. Or they'd been
committing violent robberies against each.

Speaker 8 (36:43):
Other.

Speaker 3 (36:44):
Crew we got, yeah and.

Speaker 1 (36:46):
Uh we had him on A sunday morning driving north
ON i seventy nine, exactly and we dropped a state
police helicopter out of the sky in front of, him
and every car around them early on That sunday morning
was a police. Cary and when we stopped that guy bailed.
Out are those guys because there were four of them
in the. Car the DRIVER i had MY mp. FIVE

(37:12):
i take him out at. Gunpoint he had a salt
off shotgun in the floorboard of the right beside the driver's.
Seat took him, out cuffed him. Up ended up being
the son of a city councilman From South.

Speaker 3 (37:25):
Charleston that was a dangerous.

Speaker 7 (37:27):
Crew they had robbed two supermarkets and they had broken
into at least two different drug dealers' homes that robbed
them at gunpoint and tortured some of them in one.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
House, yeah he came to. Me three or four years.
LATER i saw him on the. STREET i was no
longer a. Policeman i'd left the. Job he, said, hey Mister,
mick CAN i talk to. YOU i, Thought, oh the fight's.
On thank you you got me out of a bad. Way,
Yeah Terry sayers with. Us we continue in. Moments it's
The florida round.

Speaker 8 (37:56):
Table it's the first day of the first grade and
she found a new best.

Speaker 12 (38:06):
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Speaker 8 (38:10):
Noon you wish never.

Speaker 17 (38:12):
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round the good old. Days i'll be made ride.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
New blue.

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Belt Brookie alamode ice cream brings brownies and cookies together
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Cream it's not too good to be. True it's just that.

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Good the good old days made.

Speaker 8 (38:45):
Ryme the good old days are being Maid and.

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(40:02):
florida Round, Table Bill mick with my Former metro drug
unit boss From, Charleston West, Virginia Terry, sayer both of
us Now floridians And terry's great seeing. YOU i appreciate
you coming.

Speaker 3 (40:11):
In thank.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
You bill his Book, Snowstorm, Police politics And. COCAINE i
still say this translates anywhere you. Go the job is the,
job and you run into the same kind of. Stuff
but kind of give folks a chance to know a
little bit about that. World let's talk about how you
really got things. Rolling you've had major. Cases you talked
about the former prosecutor and mayor that you ended up taking.

(40:34):
Out you said there was an interesting start to that. Story.

Speaker 3 (40:37):
Yes.

Speaker 7 (40:37):
Absolutely we had an informant who was at run into
two guys FROM i Think columbus Or detroit that he
said he could get a pound of coke and a
Thousand delighted, pills which were just paying pills that most
cancer patients. Take, yeah and, anyway we had it arranged
for them guys to meet us at the heart of

(40:58):
town one, night and of course we waited till about
three o'clock in the morning on, them and they didn't show.
Up next morning ABOUT i don't, know seven. O'clock the
informal call me and, said, hey those guys just call.

Speaker 3 (41:10):
Me they're in.

Speaker 7 (41:10):
Town they're at the heart of. Town they want to
do the. Deal SO i Get Larry, dotson he's working
to undercover with, me and we get a joining hotel
rooms to put surveillance in and to run the wire
and to be back. Up And larry AND i get
the twenty five thousand dollar flash roll and go to
the heart of, town get a room and call the,

(41:32):
guys tell them to come down to the room while
they the two guys come into the, room they go
to the back corner of the. Room they're standing back.
There they put the drugs on the table and they
had a small one gram vowel container amber collared vowel
that they had a sample of cocaine. In so the
guy gave me the. Sample he so here test.

Speaker 3 (41:53):
This try.

Speaker 7 (41:54):
It so they had the other drugs laying on the
table AND i take the small valle of coke into the.
BATHROOM i take a test KIT i had in my
boot and test. It it turns, blue SO i know it's, coke.
Right SO i come back out of the room AND
i have the val on my left hand AND i, say,
well looks like good stuff to.

Speaker 3 (42:13):
ME i think we'll just taken all because we're the.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
Police that's always a fun.

Speaker 7 (42:18):
Line that was always a fun. Line it might have
been a little, harsher a little different, words but basically
the same. Thing but Understanding, Larry larry pulls his, Gun
i'll pull my gun and. Uh about the same, time
one of the bad guys try to pull a gun
out of his pants with one of the backup guys
came from the adjoining room, door put a gun to his,
head took his.

Speaker 3 (42:40):
Gun so we took him down and had him arranged.

Speaker 7 (42:42):
Well the prosecuting attorney came over to The Patrol division
office for a photo op with the pound of, coke
the thousand.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
Pills oh, sure because the publicity has to come for the. Politicians.

Speaker 7 (42:51):
Yeah, absolutely that was just part of the. Game and
the amber collared val of, coke so we put it
on the trunk of the. Car the newspaper, comes does,
it interview with, him takes a picture of the drugs
on the. Bike the prosecutor rides the magister court With
larry AND i we have the bag and all the
evidence in a paper. BAG i got it with me

(43:12):
in the front. Seat he, says, hey CAN i see.
THAT i hand him the bag back there AND i
hear the bag. Open it closes back. Up after a
while he gives it to. Me we get the master,
CORD i lock it up in the trunk of the,
car do the, arraiment come back, out go, home get cleaned,
up take a, shier come back to work about three
o'clock that, afternoon and get the bag out of the

(43:34):
trunk and go to the. Office open it up BECAUSE
i got a process the evidence for. Short everything's in
there except that one little, small one gram bottle of
cocaine that's. Missing so we get a couple of guys
go to the parking garage take the car apart looking for.
It so then we go to the, newspaper get the

(43:55):
pictures that the guy took and you could see it
clearly on the trunk of the. Car right then we're,
like where did it? Go the only people had? It
the only person that had it was a prosecutor besides
myself And. Larry so, anyway that's when the suspicion started
on the prosecuting attorney for, us and.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
That had to be tough to get into.

Speaker 7 (44:16):
Him, yeah, ABSOLUTELY i mean he was a great, guy and,
uh it just it was very, Disappointing i'll just put
it that.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
Way, oh, well, honestly, YEAH i was a fan of the.

Speaker 3 (44:27):
Guy, oh we all.

Speaker 7 (44:28):
Were, Yeah and to have that happen and, like LIKE
i told you, that you know addiction that doesn't, Care
so it just it's how it all.

Speaker 3 (44:37):
Started we were very suspicious after, that.

Speaker 7 (44:40):
And unfortunately all of our suspicions played out later when
we participated in that task force that ended up taking him.

Speaker 3 (44:49):
Down you know when he was.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
Mayor how did the politics play after that arrest went?
Down there had to be folks screaming down your neck
a little.

Speaker 7 (44:58):
Bit, well even before the, arrest when he was prosecuted
running for, mayor the current mayor found out through the
police department that That.

Speaker 3 (45:09):
Valle Of coke was.

Speaker 7 (45:10):
Missing so the day before the mayor, election the current
mayor Called Richard haynes and myself down to The mayor's
office and demanded we go sign a warran At Magster
court for the prosecuting.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
Attorney was he running against the current? Mayor, yes he,
Was oh, yeah nothing like putting you to play politicians your.

Speaker 3 (45:28):
Job, yeah we're right in the.

Speaker 7 (45:30):
Middle so we're, like, WELL i have reasonable, suspicion BUT
i don't THINK i have enough problem cause to go
sign a warrant for the prosecute.

Speaker 3 (45:36):
Attorney yeah on This so he just threatened the fire.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
Us that's gonna. Happen well we, Continue we'll wrap that story,
up maybe another war story or. Two my Drug unit
Boss Terry sayer with us this weekend on The FLORIDA
A Round. Table get to know us a little bit.
More not just Radio.

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Cocaine that's the name of the. Book the author is
my former drug unit, Boss Terry. Sayer retired From, Charleston
West VIRGINIA pd And, terry you were talking about the

(49:10):
case that it really it rocked the county at the.
Time the former prosecutor was a great. Prosecutor the mayor
involved in his own cocaine. Problem the political pressure when
that was coming. Down the current mayor that he ran
against and, defeated wanted you to sign a warning against
him the day before the. Election come, on and you
didn't have the evidence to do.

Speaker 7 (49:29):
It, no he demanded we go sign a. Warrant he
had the acting chief and the two. Captains we were
off to mayor's office that afternoon and the mayor, said
if you don't go sign the war And i'm firing
you WHEN i get reelected. TOMORROW i, Said i'm firing
you both of you detectives. Tomorrow and we're, like, WELL
i guess you're going to fire. Us and after a,
while this went back and forth for probably an, hour

(49:52):
taking this beat down at the mayor's. Office finally the
city attorney, said, Look, Mayor i've known these guys for twenty.

Speaker 3 (49:57):
Years they're not going to do what you want him to,
do so just let it.

Speaker 7 (50:01):
Go so mayor stood, up, cussed some more and, said
When i'm re elected, tomorrow you guys will be. Fired we're, like,
okay thank, you, appreciated and got, up left and went
back to the. Office and next day he lost the,
election so naturally that evening we went by his campaign
headquarters and congratulated him on his.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
Loss there is that little element of gotcha that you
get to throw at folks every now and.

Speaker 7 (50:27):
Then, Sometimes, yeah you just. Have if you don't give it,
back you're just. UNDERAPPRECIATED i always, thought you.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
Know well exactly it recognized the shot that he took
and he missed with because that wasn't the last. Shot
we talked about it on my local show when you
were on with me. There but we actually we recovered
a little bit of crack cocaine from some guys in the.
Project they'd come to town From, baltimore and our informant

(50:55):
had said when the deal started out that they had
a golf ball size rock of crack, cocaine and you
came up with the idea to have the informant Take
plato and show us how big the rock of crack
cocaine was when we recovered, it after we'd bought what
we bought when we recovered, it they'd sold to a
bunch of other, people so we had maybe three grams

(51:18):
of crack cocaine left when we seized. It we took
that golf ball sized piece Of plato To West Virginia
tech to the to the science lab there and they
compared it to the density of the cocaine and gave
it a one to one ratio that the crack would
have weighed just what The plato would have. Weighed and
these guys end up getting ten years instead of two or.

(51:40):
Three that went to The Supreme court and we. Woned
thanks To Kirk, branfast who was THE us attorney who
handled the case and handled it in. Court we had
some groundbreaking things happened while we're working.

Speaker 3 (51:53):
Together. YEAH i love The plato. Case you.

Speaker 7 (51:55):
Know the chemist at the college figured out that crack
cocaine And plato displaced the same weight in. Water, yeah
and that was his expert testimony in front Of Judge.
HAYDEN i believe who sends those. GUYS i Remember Tom
smith was the defense, attorney And.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
Tom didn't like. It tom was a good, guy but
he was a good.

Speaker 3 (52:15):
Guy, yeah he was a good. Guy he went crazy
on that one.

Speaker 7 (52:18):
Though you, Know tom Was tom was the type defense
lawyer that was smart enough to know sometimes when to
cut a.

Speaker 3 (52:26):
Deal.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
Yeah a lot of them aren't smart enough to know.
That and he couldn't get these two guys to take a. Deal,
No and that's what land other.

Speaker 7 (52:32):
Times you, know defense lawyers get people more times than
the police could because their stubbornness or whatever you want
to call. IT i, know but they can't see the
forest for the. Trees and sometimes a good deal is
a good.

Speaker 1 (52:46):
Deal, yeah that's very, True Terry. Sayer it has been
a heck of an. Hour thank, you my, Friend.

Speaker 3 (52:51):
Thank, You. BILL i appreciate.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
Everything, yeah the, education the life, experience the fun we
had putting real bad guys away for a long. Time
always a favorite memory of mind, snowstorm, police politics and.
Cocaine you find it An amazon or wherever those online booksellers.
Are And i'll see you next weekend on The Florida
roundtable here on The Florida News.

Speaker 21 (53:12):
Network you've been listening to The Florida roundtable With bill
may On news And public affairs presentation of The Florida News.
Network the views and opinions expressed during this programmer those
of the participants and do not necessarily reflect the views
of this, station, management, owners or. Sponsors for questions or,

(53:34):
concerns Contact Florida roundtable at fnnonline dot.

Speaker 3 (53:38):
Net