Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The views and opinions expressed in the following programmer those
of the speaker and don't necessarily represent those of the station, gets, staff,
management or ownership.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Good morning, you'll find out it's Pete and the poet Gold.
I'm Peter Leonard, and the Public Goal is not with
us today, but she will certainly be back next week.
Looky for us. We are on the air this morning
with Senator Rob Robinson and sam La Ganaro, the executive
director of New Horizons Resources, and we'll be talking about
disability rights, et cetera. And before we get to that,
(00:34):
we want to remind people that public golds weekly poem,
prayer and incantation that she's saying usually performs will not
be done. And I know that is a disappointment to everybody,
and I'm going to spare people a reading of poetry myself.
So with that out of the way, it's thought of
(00:54):
Senator Rolinson. You've been in public life for a very
long time. I have, and.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Which would be great, Yeah, if you.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Could remind us of what your service of the community
has been over the years. I appreciate it well.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
And I'm good to be with you, and we always
enjoy getting together, especially here to talk about you know,
these really important life issues when we talk about you know,
service and help for individuals with disability. But for me,
so I started as a volunteer fireman in nineteen seventy
six when I turned age eighteen, and my dad was
(01:32):
a life member of Croft Corners Fire Company on Spankoro
and I was an active volunteer fireman for fourteen years,
and then during that time, in nineteen eighty two, I
became a Town of Pokeepsie police officer, where I spent
twenty six years till two thousand and eight. And then
when I retired from the PD, I went to work
for the Red Cross when the Dutchess County Chapter was
(01:52):
on Hooker Avenue, and then in two thousand and three
I became a member of the county legislature for twelve
years and then got elected mayor in twenty sixteen and
stayed there for seven years Mayor Poughkeepsie. Yeah, thanks, Yeah,
our Saty you know and Peter, and then got to
the Senate in twenty three.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
That's some of that stuff I did not know, So
thank you for that. Sam. I know you've been at
New Horizons Resources for quite a long time. Could you
give us a sense of what your picture directory has
been there? Oh? Sure.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
I've worked at New Horizons since nineteen ninety eight, and
I started my career a little bit before that. I
was an attorney with the New York City Commission on
Human Rights, where I advocated for people in general and
access for people with disabilities in particular, and then was
(02:51):
really privileged in nineteen ninety eight to be hired by
New Horizons and I was for many years their director
of human Resources, where I worked for a New Horizons
second most important people, which are our staff, the first
being the people we support, of course, and for the
last eleven years I've been the executive director.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
So you can see we have a high powered show today.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
And what I if you say so, Peter, You're kind
of high powered yourself, so you know, I'll tell yourself shorter,
my friend, I have.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
I mean, the reason I think it's important to have
that background is just the way we're collaborating with there's
always a community is about collaboration and Rob being in
the political feel and Sam being in a provider agency
which runs mostly on public money, right, you know, Medicaid
(03:50):
and so you know you mentioned human rights before, Like,
if you could, having experience as a human rights lawyer,
if you could have explain the difference between human rights
and civil rights.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
Well, I think I would say with human rights, you
can say that you're different, but not less. If we're
talking about people with disabilities. Uh. And you know, quality
uh isn't about treating everybody the same. It's about fairness
uh and equity of access in particular for people with
(04:24):
with with disabilities.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
So uh.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
You know, human rights are those innate rights that we
possess as people. Uh. And it's so often easy to
discount others, particularly if they're separate from us and we
don't see them every day. Uh. And one of the
hallmarks of civil rights work uh is this growing realization
(04:51):
that separate is not equal. It wasn't for people of color,
and it's not for people with disabilities.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
And you know, so I would draw that distinction human
rights something that's innate to us civil rights, how we
had that rippled through society, and how we enact enact
that in our practices and our laws.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
So civil rights must be legislated and human rights do
not need to be legislated.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Well, human rights are innate, right not growing dawn of
our realization, right, where civil rights are those that we
exercise in their structure, sometimes laws, but it could also
be cultural imperatives that.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Develop, Okay, I wasn't thinking of that.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
And practices that just grow as a society has a
better understanding of who we are, which is a more
inclusive understanding of we.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
So you're using the word civil so I mean public
life that includes legislation, whereas I was thinking of civil
rights as things that had to be legislated, but you're
including societal norm.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
Right, And the law oftentimes is a lagging indicator, right,
And it's sort of like a toddler running to catch
up with with the world around it sometimes. And because
the struggles of people with disabilities existed long before the
ADA was passed or enacted the Americans with Disabilities Act,
(06:22):
and so so civil rights is that broad, that broader
concept that includes statutes, it includes laws, but is much
more much broader.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
You know.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
It's really interesting because you know, I think a lot
of times, even myself, right, we could think that two
were sort of the same, but they really aren't. It's
it's almost like when you think about civil rights, it's,
you know, two people walking down two sides of the street.
The one on the left side has more rights than
(06:54):
the person on the right side for lots of different reasons.
And that's where the legislative part comes in. We've seen,
you know, legislation, legendary civil rights legislations to equal that.
So you're you're both walking down the same street and
you both have same rights, and maybe you know then
you're going to walk together on the same street. And
then the human rights also too, we think of and
(07:17):
we hear a lot, you know, especially like, well, that's
a basic human right, like the right to education. I
say a lot, because you know, the right to have
clean drinking water, that's a human right.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Right.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
You can't exist, you can't go on as a quote
unquote say human in the way that we want all
of us to without those basic things such as water, housing,
you know, a roof over your head. That to me
is a human right. But yet there is a civil
rights component to that too, when there has been a separation,
say of societies, that one had better than the other
(07:52):
based on all kinds of different qualifications so to speak,
at the time, which my qualification is the same as
yours or anyone else on the street. To me, it's
the same thing.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
And you're speaking as a decent person, and I think
a decent person wants to have civil rights human rights
be synonymous, or at least have our civil rights striving
to be synonymous with human rights. But as we know,
lots there are lots of countries in which in our country,
(08:26):
in the past and still in the present, human rights
and civil rights don't correspond. For instance, housing is a
good issue, or even a simple thing like drinking, what
do you bring up some people think that you know,
you know, I've good drinking words, helf luck. I mean
this is not to be incendiary, but capitalism is essentially
(08:48):
something that drives a wedge between civil rights and human rights.
I mean, if you have enough money for health care,
you get it. If you don't have enough money for
health care, you don't get it. And you know, to
a popular, the popular, it's a widespread issue. But let's
remind people that they finding out with Pete and the
poet cold, and unfortunately the Poe cold is not with us.
(09:09):
Over on the air this morning with Senator Rob Rolinson,
New York State Center in the thirty ninth District and
samuel A. Ganauo, the executive director of New Horizons Resources,
and Sam, I know that one of the places you
and Rob have become friendly over the years and you know,
(09:30):
having similar values, but you also have a specific piece
of legislation that you're concerned about that Senator Rollinson has
been championing.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
Yeah, thanks, Peter. Yeah, it's ninety one fifty four and
I think it's a perfect example, a common sense example
of ensuring equity of access, which is where the rubber
meets the road.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Of access to the community.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
One of the hallmarks of people with disabilities is that
historically they denied access to the community. It was easy
not to see them, not to know them, and we
all lost. They lost because of that. And this, this
bill that the Senator introduced, really is striving to recognize
(10:16):
the practical realities that people with disabilities may not be
operating their own vehicle. They may or they may not be,
but they may also have family members who need to
transport them and being able to have you know, just
a you know, just a placard that allows access for
parking preferential parking is a good thing because it helps
to build access for that person with a disability to
(10:38):
the community.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Yeah, and it makes perfect sense because you know, and
unless you know, I'm hearing this from you, Sam and
others and being on the relevant committees up in Walbany,
we need to have equal access, you know, getting back
to a human right, a civil right. And and I
wanted to say too, and and I may have said
(11:00):
this before, but you know, like there comes like a
time in your life where you're introduced one way or
the other to someone with a disability. And for me,
it goes back to when I worked in Grand Union
just coming out of high school, which when it was
on Route nine by where Marshals is now, and then
(11:23):
in stopping shop where I was when it was going
to Marist. I was a store security there in Bradley's
and back then, so we're talking, you know, nineteen seventy seven,
nineteen seventy nine, nineteen eighty, so it's it's a bit ago.
You did not see a lot of individuals with disabilities
(11:45):
with their parents in grocery stores. And this is long
before stores really have taken such a leadership role on
hiring individuals disabilities. But it and I remember this like
it was literally yesterday. It made an impression on me.
Then as an adult and then fast forward all these
years where you're seeing the integration of individuals with disabilities
(12:07):
into the community, with families, with places like new horizons,
and so we as like as a society and as
a person. You know, remember those early days and you know,
handicapped plates and permits weren't even around that, and so
(12:28):
can you imagine how difficult it was for a parent
who was taking on a responsibility that of course could
be challenging that they didn't have access to getting close
to the store, right, And so you know, with the
American with Disabilities Act and other things that have come
online over the years, this is just another aspect to
(12:48):
that of making it easier. I mean we, I think
we have responsibility as government is also individuals, community people
to make it easier for people to be mainstreamed like
I am right, and I and I and I It's
something that I cannot get around because also too, and
I'll say this, one of the things that drives me absolutely,
it upsets me is individuals who abuse handicap spots and
(13:12):
you know them and you see them.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
The silence you put it in that was very menacing
or abuse.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Okay, and now you know you can't say that anybody
because the next thing you know, it's, you know, some
sort of a social media virtual moment with people. But
because I do like to tell stories which kind of
frame the debate. When I was going to graduating from Marist,
I became a deputy sheriff here in Duchess County part time,
(13:41):
went to the academy, and back when the Duchess Mall
was a mall, they hired deputy sheriffs to walk the
mall during the day. And I remember I got the
assignment and I was excited to do it because I
was young and I wanted to get out there with
this uniform on. And I parked in the back of
Duchess Mall, arked in a handicap spot. Didn't know it,
(14:02):
didn't see it. I got out of the car and
a gentleman said to me, a deputy, what's your handicapped blindness?
And I didn't know what to do. I didn't know
what to say. And I looked because I was so
like focused on getting there on time. Yeah, And I said, sir,
(14:23):
I am so sorry, and I kept walking. It wasn't
you know, like it was like he thought I was
a cop in the d trying to get you know,
get run a scam on something. But you know all
those things that they kind of frame your you know,
your your your thoughts on things. And that's why this
is a good bill and and lots of other good
bills out there that we need to advigate for.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
And you know, just on that very human thing about
when you first become aware of disability, how did that
play out in your life when you first, uh were
introduced to it. You remember any experience with somebody with
the development of disability.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
I think in terms of a developmental disability. It was
was uh when I was working at the Commission on
Human Rights uh and uh. It was a person with
spina bifida uh, and they ran into some problems with
their with their job because their employer couldn't recognize, I
couldn't recognize their disability as other than averrant behavior. Uh
(15:22):
and uh uh and uh a good employer, but they
just they just couldn't see beyond the fact that not
everyone can be the same and that it's okay to
be different. And sometimes we just need to flex a
little bit. And when we are willing to flex, to
see the person and not the disability wonderful things can emerge.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Uh and uh.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
So that was that was really the first, the first
realization that in terms of the interaction I had with
someone who had been actively confronted with the fact that
they had a disability and they were being treated as
less because of that, and that that encouraged me, h,
you know, in in my work and then of course
working at New Horizons which supports people developmental disabilities. You know,
(16:06):
I've grown in that understanding and work.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
And one of the things that Senator Rollison brings up
that in your surrey supports it. In the old days,
you know, you didn't see people with disabilities because they
the state policy was, the federal policy was you put
them in an institution. So like in Duchess Country, we
had five thousand people living in the Wai constitution and
(16:33):
you know, there were brutal conditions, you know, in terms
of their care, and also there was a violence that
ran through them. But it was just it was you know,
and the whole civil society. You know, your religious advisor,
you law, your doctor said okay, you have a kid
with disabilities. In the phrase was actually you should put
(16:57):
them away. And put them away means you go to
a warehouse and you live there with no educational possibility
and a center alas education is a human right denied
that say nothing of food access. And now over the
last forty years or almost fifty years, it's been slowly
(17:19):
changing and New Horizons has been part of that change.
You want to speak a bit about how New Horizons
role almost public education role in having people with disabilities
be more conspicuous.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
Sure, and just to go back to your original point,
not only were people encouraged to be warehoused by the state,
but parents were told to basically forget they had a child.
You know, it's breaking relationships or even before they formed
since oftentimes people came into the system when they were
infants and lead their whole life within that segregated, congregated environment.
(17:55):
So organizations like New Horizons, and there are many assister
agencies who are doing the same work. We're bringing people
out into the community where they belong, which is with us, right,
a group of people who belong together and care about
each other. And New Horizons operates about thirty homes for
people with disabilities and about a dozen apartments where people
(18:15):
live more independently. And our goal is to support people
to have fulfilling lives with us, and by us we
mean the broadest community. And I got a wonderful story
of what our work means from a mother of a
person we support, who is just reflecting on the fact
(18:36):
that her son works at a local food bank and
that in and of itself, you know, helping people in
our community who are food insecure by a person who
decades before would have been locked up and unable to
provide that needed support. That's a powerful story about contribution,
(18:57):
about dignity, about presence in each others' lives, and when
we're doing our best at new horizons, that's what we're doing.
We're standing with Josh as he's working at the food
bank to help, you know, to help others see the
value on what he's doing.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
What else you know? It's like, what else do you
need to hear?
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Right when you think about it, I mean, that's that is,
you know, such a powerful message about everybody can do
things right. We have a bill I went to to
another bill myself, Senator Pete Harkham from Westchester. Dear Frank
Colic from the other side of the aisle. We do
a lot together. So when and I don't know. I
(19:39):
think I mentioned the last time we were together, Sam,
But so when I got elected in twenty three, you
when you're in Albany, the lobbying that takes place from
people from all walks of life, all walks of life, right,
all disciplines, professions. But you know, we would have individuals
with disabilities, wheelchair bound coming in to advocate on behal
(20:00):
aff of their DSPs, their organizations, and it just so
heartwarming to hear that individuals with brain injuries or just
physical ailments, many can't get to Albany because they don't
have the ability to be changed on their way. And
(20:23):
you would never think about that as a person who
doesn't know someone or yourself having those issues. So we
Senator Harkham and I coaspunted this bill to require certain
venues which which originally the bill and then state entities
too have change adult changing stations, which like they can't
(20:46):
come and lobby because they got it, they can't go
to the bathroom properly on the way up. And this
is to the state capitol where we do not have
adult changing stations within the state. The states the state capital.
So we're I think there's gonna be some amendments made
to the bill, but like if you're not if you
(21:06):
didn't hear that from somebody, you wouldn't even think about that,
right right, and when and as we're trying to make
you know, our communities more accessible to everyone, those are important,
you know, and especially they want to be there. And
I will say this too, and say and of course
you know this. They're some of the fiercest advocates for
(21:29):
individuals like themselves and the organizations that help them more
so than than any anyone else. And I wanted to
ask you to house things that on Kathy Road. The
group home that I went to that one time was
that Kathy Road. Remember that I went to after I
met with you out on West Road was a Kathy
that we went to More More More More House, More
(21:50):
House Road, Kathy's next door. How they're doing over there,
They're doing very well. That was a great visit. I
read that that that was impactful as well.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
It's a home for five ladies that we support in
the city of Poughkeepsie.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Yeah, and I got a chance to meet I think
there were two home at the time. But the interesting
part was to I get to hang with the staff
and listening to them. One was going to stay later
because someone couldn't come in, And yeah, and.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
That was invaluable, Senator, because of course the heart and
soul of our work are direct support professionals, our staff
and seeing somebody you know who valued them enough to
spend time with them and speak with them meant a
great deal of them. So thank you for doing that,
and thank you for having support it, you know, better
(22:33):
pay and benefit for those staff as well.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
And that's what we're talking about again with the budget.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Yes, with a colon, and I'll remind people they find
out peating the Poe Gold on Peter Leonard and Poe Gold,
it's not with us today. But I also want to
point out the sophisticated mistake. Very few people can make
a safe Betreen moor House and Kathy to a place
in the city of Poughkeepsie. But the city of Poughkeepsie,
you really know it. I mean yeah, yeah, right down
(23:02):
the street, right back to each other, but very quickly.
I have a son, Kevin, who's forty five years old,
and he was so he's born in nineteen eighty one
and the most important day in his life was actually
in nineteen seventy two when Haraldo Rivera went to the
(23:22):
will Brook to Willbrook, the institution on Staten Island that
was like wasis and documented the abuse of people and
the neglect and abuse of people, and the wars started
changing because of Heraldo Rivera, who had a very controversial
career after that. But there's nothing controversial about twenty four
(23:44):
year old Raldo went into Willbrook with a camera.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
Soraldo today, I haven't even seen much from him.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
He's a little propers and you know, so that advocacy
really makes a difference. And one of the things is
coming up next week is a thing called the Rally
in the Valley, and Sam, you might want to give
us a sense of that what that advocacy initiative is about.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
Sure, well, that's just one of a number of rallies
that have been held, and it really goes to what
the Senator just referenced, which is the New York State budget,
which is you know in negotiation now, you know, being
formed for the fiscal year that starts on April first.
The Governor and her budget executive budget proposed at one
point seven percent targeted inflationary increase. Of course, inflation was
(24:33):
running more than that, and our field and through New
York Disability Advocates, is requesting a two point seven percent
cola just just to help keep us even with inflation.
The state, through a lot of advocacy, had recently made
a significant investment in helping us catch up, you know,
so we could pay people more competitively. But even so,
(24:55):
over the last five years, core costs expenses have gone
on between twenty and twenty nine percent, and provider rates
like New Horizon, since as you pointed out, we're government funded,
have only gone up fifteen point eight percent. And so
you hear about the crisis of affordability for folks, for
our direct support staff. That is really a significant, significantly important.
(25:18):
But the rally and valley is next week at Rocky
Community College, up and suffering, and I'm sorting it's.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
The sense of how advocacy, how it affects legislators like yourself.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Well, it affects you emotionally outside of what the finished
product is is because when you sit with individuals who
are there advocating for common sense things such as increased
pay for direct service providers, because under the Cuomo administration
there were no increases at all for many, many years,
(25:57):
and I didn't necessarily know that because I wasn't up there,
and then I get up there and I and I'm
talking to folks and people down here of course too
that you know, they're looking at like six years or
whatever the number is. It's pretty pretty big of no increases.
And we know, like so if you pay stay flat,
expenses are always going up. You know, we know that,
and many and Sam of course knows that many of
(26:21):
these direct service providers are also on some form of
social assistance, right and you know they're working, and many
of them working long hours in overtime, and they're still
not making ends meet that that is just fundamentally wrong.
And I am heartbroken we're in this situation and the
(26:41):
competition for money, not just DSPs and just in general
across the board, there is you know, now with budgets
coming into focus within the next week or so, you know,
the Governor's proposals two hundred and sixty billion. This is
about eight billion more than her proposal last year. Where
this will end up because now it's going to be
(27:03):
about what are we doing for this particular constituent group
or this or you know, policy laws and things all
get lumped in to the budget, especially the spending aspects,
because those are budgetary items that you're not going to
do a standalone bill on in May. It's going to
be in the budget or it's not going to be
in the budget. And we're not talking about in the
(27:25):
Joeneral scheme of things. When you're talking about two hundred
and sixty billion dollar budget, a lot of money and.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
There's a lot of money, and so political advocacy work.
And I think that one of the things the lessons
I've learned over my lifetime is it in order to
ensure a human rights, human rights are not immediately enforceable.
In order to make a human right a civil right,
(27:50):
you need an advocacy from the professional elected leaders as
well as the ordinary citizen. So I would like one
of the pointers for closing him. You know, you talk
about the rights of individuals with disabilities to be seen
to be a part of the community, and I would
(28:11):
say there's also the general public has a right to
see people who are different, because seeing people who are
different broadens our conception of what a human is and
who has human rights, and so there's an educational benefit
(28:31):
to having people with disabilities participating in society and being seen,
and you know, I think that it's a big deal
for everybody, including let me say, my own son who
when he went to a group home run by Sam's agency,
(28:53):
New Horizons Resources. I was hoping he would be the
food would be good, and they would be clean, and
I had all these be things, but I didn't know
that what he really needed more than anything else was
to be a member of a community. And so for
him to be part of his own group home community
and the agency is one thing. But to be in
(29:14):
the wider community, what we call a regular civic life,
guys what he needs because that's what every single one
of us need. And you know, we can brush our
teeth later.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
I mean, you know, yeah, no doubt, yeah, because a
lot of times Peter to that point with Kevin is
that you know, he knows it right, He knows what
else is going on outside that group home and that's
his community there. But he of course, we all yearn
for something else, and we have I think, as a country,
come a long way in making those opportunities available for
(29:48):
that something else. It's not always easy, but I think
we're doing it, and we need to do a better
job of it.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
And one of the things else said, what Kevin needs
is to be able to run see you with Adams.
You know, it's just happened, Sam, So Kevin and another resident,
Jeffrey in them all the other day. So that's what
that's what they need. And what we need to do
is stop talking because just to do that.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
Yeah, actually, Sam and I should probably have her own
weekly radio show. You know, I don't care with that.
So if you want to do that, and.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Let me say what poet could always says, it's less
meaningful from me. But when she says to the audience
and we appreciate you, she means it, and today I
mean it.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
So thanks Peter, thank you, Thanks, thank you,
The views and opinions expressed in the following programmer those
of the speaker and don't necessarily represent those of the station, gets, staff,
management or ownership.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Good morning, you'll find out it's Pete and the poet Gold.
I'm Peter Leonard, and the Public Goal is not with
us today, but she will certainly be back next week.
Looky for us. We are on the air this morning
with Senator Rob Robinson and sam La Ganaro, the executive
director of New Horizons Resources, and we'll be talking about
disability rights, et cetera. And before we get to that,
(00:34):
we want to remind people that public golds weekly poem,
prayer and incantation that she's saying usually performs will not
be done. And I know that is a disappointment to everybody,
and I'm going to spare people a reading of poetry myself.
So with that out of the way, it's thought of
(00:54):
Senator Rolinson. You've been in public life for a very
long time. I have, and.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Which would be great, Yeah, if you.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Could remind us of what your service of the community
has been over the years. I appreciate it well.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
And I'm good to be with you, and we always
enjoy getting together, especially here to talk about you know,
these really important life issues when we talk about you know,
service and help for individuals with disability. But for me,
so I started as a volunteer fireman in nineteen seventy
six when I turned age eighteen, and my dad was
(01:32):
a life member of Croft Corners Fire Company on Spankoro
and I was an active volunteer fireman for fourteen years,
and then during that time, in nineteen eighty two, I
became a Town of Pokeepsie police officer, where I spent
twenty six years till two thousand and eight. And then
when I retired from the PD, I went to work
for the Red Cross when the Dutchess County Chapter was
(01:52):
on Hooker Avenue, and then in two thousand and three
I became a member of the county legislature for twelve
years and then got elected mayor in twenty sixteen and
stayed there for seven years Mayor Poughkeepsie. Yeah, thanks, Yeah,
our Saty you know and Peter, and then got to
the Senate in twenty three.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
That's some of that stuff I did not know, So
thank you for that. Sam. I know you've been at
New Horizons Resources for quite a long time. Could you
give us a sense of what your picture directory has
been there? Oh? Sure.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
I've worked at New Horizons since nineteen ninety eight, and
I started my career a little bit before that. I
was an attorney with the New York City Commission on
Human Rights, where I advocated for people in general and
access for people with disabilities in particular, and then was
(02:51):
really privileged in nineteen ninety eight to be hired by
New Horizons and I was for many years their director
of human Resources, where I worked for a New Horizons
second most important people, which are our staff, the first
being the people we support, of course, and for the
last eleven years I've been the executive director.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
So you can see we have a high powered show today.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
And what I if you say so, Peter, You're kind
of high powered yourself, so you know, I'll tell yourself shorter,
my friend, I have.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
I mean, the reason I think it's important to have
that background is just the way we're collaborating with there's
always a community is about collaboration and Rob being in
the political feel and Sam being in a provider agency
which runs mostly on public money, right, you know, Medicaid
(03:50):
and so you know you mentioned human rights before, Like,
if you could, having experience as a human rights lawyer,
if you could have explain the difference between human rights
and civil rights.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
Well, I think I would say with human rights, you
can say that you're different, but not less. If we're
talking about people with disabilities. Uh. And you know, quality
uh isn't about treating everybody the same. It's about fairness
uh and equity of access in particular for people with
(04:24):
with with disabilities.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
So uh.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
You know, human rights are those innate rights that we
possess as people. Uh. And it's so often easy to
discount others, particularly if they're separate from us and we
don't see them every day. Uh. And one of the
hallmarks of civil rights work uh is this growing realization
(04:51):
that separate is not equal. It wasn't for people of color,
and it's not for people with disabilities.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
And you know, so I would draw that distinction human
rights something that's innate to us civil rights, how we
had that rippled through society, and how we enact enact
that in our practices and our laws.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
So civil rights must be legislated and human rights do
not need to be legislated.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Well, human rights are innate, right not growing dawn of
our realization, right, where civil rights are those that we
exercise in their structure, sometimes laws, but it could also
be cultural imperatives that.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Develop, Okay, I wasn't thinking of that.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
And practices that just grow as a society has a
better understanding of who we are, which is a more
inclusive understanding of we.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
So you're using the word civil so I mean public
life that includes legislation, whereas I was thinking of civil
rights as things that had to be legislated, but you're
including societal norm.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
Right, And the law oftentimes is a lagging indicator, right,
And it's sort of like a toddler running to catch
up with with the world around it sometimes. And because
the struggles of people with disabilities existed long before the
ADA was passed or enacted the Americans with Disabilities Act,
(06:22):
and so so civil rights is that broad, that broader
concept that includes statutes, it includes laws, but is much
more much broader.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
You know.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
It's really interesting because you know, I think a lot
of times, even myself, right, we could think that two
were sort of the same, but they really aren't. It's
it's almost like when you think about civil rights, it's,
you know, two people walking down two sides of the street.
The one on the left side has more rights than
(06:54):
the person on the right side for lots of different reasons.
And that's where the legislative part comes in. We've seen,
you know, legislation, legendary civil rights legislations to equal that.
So you're you're both walking down the same street and
you both have same rights, and maybe you know then
you're going to walk together on the same street. And
then the human rights also too, we think of and
(07:17):
we hear a lot, you know, especially like, well, that's
a basic human right, like the right to education. I
say a lot, because you know, the right to have
clean drinking water, that's a human right.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Right.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
You can't exist, you can't go on as a quote
unquote say human in the way that we want all
of us to without those basic things such as water, housing,
you know, a roof over your head. That to me
is a human right. But yet there is a civil
rights component to that too, when there has been a separation,
say of societies, that one had better than the other
(07:52):
based on all kinds of different qualifications so to speak,
at the time, which my qualification is the same as
yours or anyone else on the street. To me, it's
the same thing.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
And you're speaking as a decent person, and I think
a decent person wants to have civil rights human rights
be synonymous, or at least have our civil rights striving
to be synonymous with human rights. But as we know,
lots there are lots of countries in which in our country,
(08:26):
in the past and still in the present, human rights
and civil rights don't correspond. For instance, housing is a
good issue, or even a simple thing like drinking, what
do you bring up some people think that you know,
you know, I've good drinking words, helf luck. I mean
this is not to be incendiary, but capitalism is essentially
(08:48):
something that drives a wedge between civil rights and human rights.
I mean, if you have enough money for health care,
you get it. If you don't have enough money for
health care, you don't get it. And you know, to
a popular, the popular, it's a widespread issue. But let's
remind people that they finding out with Pete and the
poet cold, and unfortunately the Poe cold is not with us.
(09:09):
Over on the air this morning with Senator Rob Rolinson,
New York State Center in the thirty ninth District and
samuel A. Ganauo, the executive director of New Horizons Resources,
and Sam, I know that one of the places you
and Rob have become friendly over the years and you know,
(09:30):
having similar values, but you also have a specific piece
of legislation that you're concerned about that Senator Rollinson has
been championing.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
Yeah, thanks, Peter. Yeah, it's ninety one fifty four and
I think it's a perfect example, a common sense example
of ensuring equity of access, which is where the rubber
meets the road.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Of access to the community.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
One of the hallmarks of people with disabilities is that
historically they denied access to the community. It was easy
not to see them, not to know them, and we
all lost. They lost because of that. And this, this
bill that the Senator introduced, really is striving to recognize
(10:16):
the practical realities that people with disabilities may not be
operating their own vehicle. They may or they may not be,
but they may also have family members who need to
transport them and being able to have you know, just
a you know, just a placard that allows access for
parking preferential parking is a good thing because it helps
to build access for that person with a disability to
(10:38):
the community.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Yeah, and it makes perfect sense because you know, and
unless you know, I'm hearing this from you, Sam and
others and being on the relevant committees up in Walbany,
we need to have equal access, you know, getting back
to a human right, a civil right. And and I
wanted to say too, and and I may have said
(11:00):
this before, but you know, like there comes like a
time in your life where you're introduced one way or
the other to someone with a disability. And for me,
it goes back to when I worked in Grand Union
just coming out of high school, which when it was
on Route nine by where Marshals is now, and then
(11:23):
in stopping shop where I was when it was going
to Marist. I was a store security there in Bradley's
and back then, so we're talking, you know, nineteen seventy seven,
nineteen seventy nine, nineteen eighty, so it's it's a bit ago.
You did not see a lot of individuals with disabilities
(11:45):
with their parents in grocery stores. And this is long
before stores really have taken such a leadership role on
hiring individuals disabilities. But it and I remember this like
it was literally yesterday. It made an impression on me.
Then as an adult and then fast forward all these
years where you're seeing the integration of individuals with disabilities
(12:07):
into the community, with families, with places like new horizons,
and so we as like as a society and as
a person. You know, remember those early days and you know,
handicapped plates and permits weren't even around that, and so
(12:28):
can you imagine how difficult it was for a parent
who was taking on a responsibility that of course could
be challenging that they didn't have access to getting close
to the store, right, And so you know, with the
American with Disabilities Act and other things that have come
online over the years, this is just another aspect to
(12:48):
that of making it easier. I mean we, I think
we have responsibility as government is also individuals, community people
to make it easier for people to be mainstreamed like
I am right, and I and I and I It's
something that I cannot get around because also too, and
I'll say this, one of the things that drives me absolutely,
it upsets me is individuals who abuse handicap spots and
(13:12):
you know them and you see them.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
The silence you put it in that was very menacing
or abuse.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Okay, and now you know you can't say that anybody
because the next thing you know, it's, you know, some
sort of a social media virtual moment with people. But
because I do like to tell stories which kind of
frame the debate. When I was going to graduating from Marist,
I became a deputy sheriff here in Duchess County part time,
(13:41):
went to the academy, and back when the Duchess Mall
was a mall, they hired deputy sheriffs to walk the
mall during the day. And I remember I got the
assignment and I was excited to do it because I
was young and I wanted to get out there with
this uniform on. And I parked in the back of
Duchess Mall, arked in a handicap spot. Didn't know it,
(14:02):
didn't see it. I got out of the car and
a gentleman said to me, a deputy, what's your handicapped blindness?
And I didn't know what to do. I didn't know
what to say. And I looked because I was so
like focused on getting there on time. Yeah, And I said, sir,
(14:23):
I am so sorry, and I kept walking. It wasn't
you know, like it was like he thought I was
a cop in the d trying to get you know,
get run a scam on something. But you know all
those things that they kind of frame your you know,
your your your thoughts on things. And that's why this
is a good bill and and lots of other good
bills out there that we need to advigate for.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
And you know, just on that very human thing about
when you first become aware of disability, how did that
play out in your life when you first, uh were
introduced to it. You remember any experience with somebody with
the development of disability.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
I think in terms of a developmental disability. It was
was uh when I was working at the Commission on
Human Rights uh and uh. It was a person with
spina bifida uh, and they ran into some problems with
their with their job because their employer couldn't recognize, I
couldn't recognize their disability as other than averrant behavior. Uh
(15:22):
and uh uh and uh a good employer, but they
just they just couldn't see beyond the fact that not
everyone can be the same and that it's okay to
be different. And sometimes we just need to flex a
little bit. And when we are willing to flex, to
see the person and not the disability wonderful things can emerge.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Uh and uh.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
So that was that was really the first, the first
realization that in terms of the interaction I had with
someone who had been actively confronted with the fact that
they had a disability and they were being treated as
less because of that, and that that encouraged me, h,
you know, in in my work and then of course
working at New Horizons which supports people developmental disabilities. You know,
(16:06):
I've grown in that understanding and work.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
And one of the things that Senator Rollison brings up
that in your surrey supports it. In the old days,
you know, you didn't see people with disabilities because they
the state policy was, the federal policy was you put
them in an institution. So like in Duchess Country, we
had five thousand people living in the Wai constitution and
(16:33):
you know, there were brutal conditions, you know, in terms
of their care, and also there was a violence that
ran through them. But it was just it was you know,
and the whole civil society. You know, your religious advisor,
you law, your doctor said okay, you have a kid
with disabilities. In the phrase was actually you should put
(16:57):
them away. And put them away means you go to
a warehouse and you live there with no educational possibility
and a center alas education is a human right denied
that say nothing of food access. And now over the
last forty years or almost fifty years, it's been slowly
(17:19):
changing and New Horizons has been part of that change.
You want to speak a bit about how New Horizons
role almost public education role in having people with disabilities
be more conspicuous.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
Sure, and just to go back to your original point,
not only were people encouraged to be warehoused by the state,
but parents were told to basically forget they had a child.
You know, it's breaking relationships or even before they formed
since oftentimes people came into the system when they were
infants and lead their whole life within that segregated, congregated environment.
(17:55):
So organizations like New Horizons, and there are many assister
agencies who are doing the same work. We're bringing people
out into the community where they belong, which is with us, right,
a group of people who belong together and care about
each other. And New Horizons operates about thirty homes for
people with disabilities and about a dozen apartments where people
(18:15):
live more independently. And our goal is to support people
to have fulfilling lives with us, and by us we
mean the broadest community. And I got a wonderful story
of what our work means from a mother of a
person we support, who is just reflecting on the fact
(18:36):
that her son works at a local food bank and
that in and of itself, you know, helping people in
our community who are food insecure by a person who
decades before would have been locked up and unable to
provide that needed support. That's a powerful story about contribution,
(18:57):
about dignity, about presence in each others' lives, and when
we're doing our best at new horizons, that's what we're doing.
We're standing with Josh as he's working at the food
bank to help, you know, to help others see the
value on what he's doing.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
What else you know? It's like, what else do you
need to hear?
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Right when you think about it, I mean, that's that is,
you know, such a powerful message about everybody can do
things right. We have a bill I went to to
another bill myself, Senator Pete Harkham from Westchester. Dear Frank
Colic from the other side of the aisle. We do
a lot together. So when and I don't know. I
(19:39):
think I mentioned the last time we were together, Sam,
But so when I got elected in twenty three, you
when you're in Albany, the lobbying that takes place from
people from all walks of life, all walks of life, right,
all disciplines, professions. But you know, we would have individuals
with disabilities, wheelchair bound coming in to advocate on behal
(20:00):
aff of their DSPs, their organizations, and it just so
heartwarming to hear that individuals with brain injuries or just
physical ailments, many can't get to Albany because they don't
have the ability to be changed on their way. And
(20:23):
you would never think about that as a person who
doesn't know someone or yourself having those issues. So we
Senator Harkham and I coaspunted this bill to require certain
venues which which originally the bill and then state entities
too have change adult changing stations, which like they can't
(20:46):
come and lobby because they got it, they can't go
to the bathroom properly on the way up. And this
is to the state capitol where we do not have
adult changing stations within the state. The states the state capital.
So we're I think there's gonna be some amendments made
to the bill, but like if you're not if you
(21:06):
didn't hear that from somebody, you wouldn't even think about that,
right right, and when and as we're trying to make
you know, our communities more accessible to everyone, those are important,
you know, and especially they want to be there. And
I will say this too, and say and of course
you know this. They're some of the fiercest advocates for
(21:29):
individuals like themselves and the organizations that help them more
so than than any anyone else. And I wanted to
ask you to house things that on Kathy Road. The
group home that I went to that one time was
that Kathy Road. Remember that I went to after I
met with you out on West Road was a Kathy
that we went to More More More More House, More
(21:50):
House Road, Kathy's next door. How they're doing over there,
They're doing very well. That was a great visit. I
read that that that was impactful as well.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
It's a home for five ladies that we support in
the city of Poughkeepsie.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Yeah, and I got a chance to meet I think
there were two home at the time. But the interesting
part was to I get to hang with the staff
and listening to them. One was going to stay later
because someone couldn't come in, And yeah, and.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
That was invaluable, Senator, because of course the heart and
soul of our work are direct support professionals, our staff
and seeing somebody you know who valued them enough to
spend time with them and speak with them meant a
great deal of them. So thank you for doing that,
and thank you for having support it, you know, better
(22:33):
pay and benefit for those staff as well.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
And that's what we're talking about again with the budget.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Yes, with a colon, and I'll remind people they find
out peating the Poe Gold on Peter Leonard and Poe Gold,
it's not with us today. But I also want to
point out the sophisticated mistake. Very few people can make
a safe Betreen moor House and Kathy to a place
in the city of Poughkeepsie. But the city of Poughkeepsie,
you really know it. I mean yeah, yeah, right down
(23:02):
the street, right back to each other, but very quickly.
I have a son, Kevin, who's forty five years old,
and he was so he's born in nineteen eighty one
and the most important day in his life was actually
in nineteen seventy two when Haraldo Rivera went to the
(23:22):
will Brook to Willbrook, the institution on Staten Island that
was like wasis and documented the abuse of people and
the neglect and abuse of people, and the wars started
changing because of Heraldo Rivera, who had a very controversial
career after that. But there's nothing controversial about twenty four
(23:44):
year old Raldo went into Willbrook with a camera.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
Soraldo today, I haven't even seen much from him.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
He's a little propers and you know, so that advocacy
really makes a difference. And one of the things is
coming up next week is a thing called the Rally
in the Valley, and Sam, you might want to give
us a sense of that what that advocacy initiative is about.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
Sure, well, that's just one of a number of rallies
that have been held, and it really goes to what
the Senator just referenced, which is the New York State budget,
which is you know in negotiation now, you know, being
formed for the fiscal year that starts on April first.
The Governor and her budget executive budget proposed at one
point seven percent targeted inflationary increase. Of course, inflation was
(24:33):
running more than that, and our field and through New
York Disability Advocates, is requesting a two point seven percent
cola just just to help keep us even with inflation.
The state, through a lot of advocacy, had recently made
a significant investment in helping us catch up, you know,
so we could pay people more competitively. But even so,
(24:55):
over the last five years, core costs expenses have gone
on between twenty and twenty nine percent, and provider rates
like New Horizon, since as you pointed out, we're government funded,
have only gone up fifteen point eight percent. And so
you hear about the crisis of affordability for folks, for
our direct support staff. That is really a significant, significantly important.
(25:18):
But the rally and valley is next week at Rocky
Community College, up and suffering, and I'm sorting it's.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
The sense of how advocacy, how it affects legislators like yourself.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Well, it affects you emotionally outside of what the finished
product is is because when you sit with individuals who
are there advocating for common sense things such as increased
pay for direct service providers, because under the Cuomo administration
there were no increases at all for many, many years,
(25:57):
and I didn't necessarily know that because I wasn't up there,
and then I get up there and I and I'm
talking to folks and people down here of course too
that you know, they're looking at like six years or
whatever the number is. It's pretty pretty big of no increases.
And we know, like so if you pay stay flat,
expenses are always going up. You know, we know that,
and many and Sam of course knows that many of
(26:21):
these direct service providers are also on some form of
social assistance, right and you know they're working, and many
of them working long hours in overtime, and they're still
not making ends meet that that is just fundamentally wrong.
And I am heartbroken we're in this situation and the
(26:41):
competition for money, not just DSPs and just in general
across the board, there is you know, now with budgets
coming into focus within the next week or so, you know,
the Governor's proposals two hundred and sixty billion. This is
about eight billion more than her proposal last year. Where
this will end up because now it's going to be
(27:03):
about what are we doing for this particular constituent group
or this or you know, policy laws and things all
get lumped in to the budget, especially the spending aspects,
because those are budgetary items that you're not going to
do a standalone bill on in May. It's going to
be in the budget or it's not going to be
in the budget. And we're not talking about in the
(27:25):
Joeneral scheme of things. When you're talking about two hundred
and sixty billion dollar budget, a lot of money and.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
There's a lot of money, and so political advocacy work.
And I think that one of the things the lessons
I've learned over my lifetime is it in order to
ensure a human rights, human rights are not immediately enforceable.
In order to make a human right a civil right,
(27:50):
you need an advocacy from the professional elected leaders as
well as the ordinary citizen. So I would like one
of the pointers for closing him. You know, you talk
about the rights of individuals with disabilities to be seen
to be a part of the community, and I would
(28:11):
say there's also the general public has a right to
see people who are different, because seeing people who are
different broadens our conception of what a human is and
who has human rights, and so there's an educational benefit
(28:31):
to having people with disabilities participating in society and being seen,
and you know, I think that it's a big deal
for everybody, including let me say, my own son who
when he went to a group home run by Sam's agency,
(28:53):
New Horizons Resources. I was hoping he would be the
food would be good, and they would be clean, and
I had all these be things, but I didn't know
that what he really needed more than anything else was
to be a member of a community. And so for
him to be part of his own group home community
and the agency is one thing. But to be in
(29:14):
the wider community, what we call a regular civic life,
guys what he needs because that's what every single one
of us need. And you know, we can brush our
teeth later.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
I mean, you know, yeah, no doubt, yeah, because a
lot of times Peter to that point with Kevin is
that you know, he knows it right, He knows what
else is going on outside that group home and that's
his community there. But he of course, we all yearn
for something else, and we have I think, as a country,
come a long way in making those opportunities available for
(29:48):
that something else. It's not always easy, but I think
we're doing it, and we need to do a better
job of it.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
And one of the things else said, what Kevin needs
is to be able to run see you with Adams.
You know, it's just happened, Sam, So Kevin and another resident,
Jeffrey in them all the other day. So that's what
that's what they need. And what we need to do
is stop talking because just to do that.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
Yeah, actually, Sam and I should probably have her own
weekly radio show. You know, I don't care with that.
So if you want to do that, and.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Let me say what poet could always says, it's less
meaningful from me. But when she says to the audience
and we appreciate you, she means it, and today I
mean it.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
So thanks Peter, thank you, Thanks, thank you,
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