Swing It & Ding It: Episode 253

The first Major Championship Winner to appear on the show- Jerry Pate. Jerry talks about his yearlong restoration of Teeth of the Dog at Casa de Campo originally designed by his friend Pete Dye. His legendary career including a US Am Championship, Rookie of the Year, US Open Championship, 8 PGA Tour Wins, 2 PGA Champions Tour wins and becoming one of the most sought-after course designers.  Tea with D, Ben Griffin wins again at the Worldwide Technologies Championship and The Course of Course presented by Buy My Ballz for the Butterfield Bermuda Championship and See The Line with BetParx.

Thank you to our Sponsors: BetParx, Mall Chevrolet, Comcast Business, Rita’s Water Ice

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:24):
You just got to get out there and swing and
ding it. Yeah, you know, just guess it's gonna go
out there and try to swing it and ding it.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
That's right. Welcome in to swing it and ding it.
Not iHeartMedia podcast. This has Moves along with Harry Mays.
Daniel Matthews will be joining the program a little bit later.
But Harry, we are joined by a very special guest.
I mean, when you talk about the game of golf
and people that have had just an incredible career and
continue to make an impact in the game of golf,
Jerry Pate is very high up on that list. I know, Harry,

(00:55):
you're very excited to uh oh our next guest for sure, Jerry.
Welcome to swing it and ding it.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Thank you, Jeff, grateful to be here at Harry. Nice
to meet you as well.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
Oh, it's great to have you man.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
So we talk a lot on this show about the
golf journey, and your golf journey is incredible. Now. Typically
we usually start at the beginning of the golf journey,
but with you, we want to reverse it a little bit,
just because of the project you're working on at a
place that is incredibly near and dear to me. You see,
I have the hat on teeth of the Dog and
Kasa the Campo because I think that will take us

(01:29):
on a lot of different directions, because of the history,
because of the Pete die tie in. So talk to
us about that project, about what that means to you,
the connection and how things are going there.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
Everything's going great there. And you know, of course when
you said started today and go backwards. I'm old, so
I can't remember all memory though, but it's going great.
My involvement goes back to nineteen seventy four at the
World Amateur at Kasa de Compo, Gary Coche, Curtis Strange,
George Burns and I represented the mayor and I was

(02:01):
lucky enough that our team won and I won the medalist,
and so I knew the folks at Casa de Campo,
and then you never know what happened. I ran into
a guy My second tournament as a pro was the
Ben Crosby, and I get paired with a guy from
Cuba and the sugar business were of course, he was
living in America. The family were big sugar growers and

(02:23):
producers in Cuba, and he left in nineteen fifty eight.
Alfi kan Hul, who's still one of my dear friends.
Alfi's eighty eight years old, lives in Palm Beach and
their family ended up buying the Cosa de Compo from
Golf and Western in nineteen eighty four, and so I
played with him in seventy six at the Ben Crosby.
Two years seventy six, seventy seven and then eighty four

(02:46):
he called me and said, hey, I bought your favorite
golf courster and we played that only played two tournaments.
That was my second tournament on the PGA Tourist, my
first time at Pebble Beach, first time at Cyprus Point.
Had not seen the National Golf Link, Shinnacock or Pine Valley,
any of the great golf courses. My only involvement really
was Ridgewood where I won the Amateur in seventy four,

(03:06):
Tillinghash Course and Pete Die's Teeth of the Dog, and
of course i'd played Augusta Nationville by then I'd played
it as an amateur in the Masters. So Alfie asked
me to come down there and play the first round
with him in eighty four. And now some gosh, it's
forty years later with Alfie, but fifty years later since
I've played in seventy four, fifty one years in fact,

(03:28):
since I played the World Amateur. So about eight years ago,
Pete Die was kind of coming down with dementia and
it was obvious that he wasn't able to continue. He
had been there since nineteen sixty eight or sixty nine,
long time, when he worked for Golf and Western Americas
and they owned the Sugar down there, and Pete convinced
mister Carter to build this golf course. And a man

(03:49):
named Charlie Bluehorne was the chairman of Golf and Western
in New York, and so they went with Pete rolled
the dice, said let's build this great golf course. And
when Pete sort of down about eight years ago, he's
been dead now at least four or five years, I
think at least probably five, and they asked me to
be the guy. So there's five golf courses and I

(04:11):
got my teeth cut with architecture literally at Tasai Compo.
And then when I went on the tour of my
first year playing places like Harbortown, Pete invited me to
go look at Long Cove, which was the course at
Hilton that he was building. I can remember going up playing
and seeing golf courses like the golf club in Plumbus,
Ohio a crooked stick later on, but then he built

(04:34):
TPC Sawgrass. My family was from Jacksonville, so my grandfather
is the family member and original member in thirty two
at pont of Vigret, so I knew about sawgrass. Jimmy Stockton,
who developed Sawgrass the original Sawgrass golf Club was and
my dad wedding along and so we were tied to
that TPC area and I watched Pete built built TPC Sawgrass,

(04:56):
in fact the Dies Valley golf course Bobby Weed, who
was working for the PGA Tour, who's a really fine
accomplished architect, and I where the guys that built it.
I'm listed as a player consultant, but that was back
when I was not playing much golf on the tour.
I had shoulder injuries. But it's this world of Pete
Dye that got me in the business and how it

(05:19):
came full circle from nineteen seventy four to today to
be responsible for redoing the teas now quickly to that
and it's hard for me to be quick. My brain
thinks in a lot of detail, but not get that's
the foot left like it in the weeds. But we
started out, you know. We added four inches of sand

(05:42):
to all the fairways, redid the t's, redid all the bunkers,
put new drainage, brought them right back to looking like
the original Pete Die golf courses, where the sod it
comes down the face, the sand is flatting the bunker.
Pete didn't have your your George Thomas Tilling hashed Alistair
Mackenzie lashed up bunker faces. He had very flat sand,

(06:03):
which is so practical. And I remember when I saw
Pineers two for the first time in nineteen seventy three
and Donald Rosswich, I think was one of his great
golf courses of all dead flat sand in the bunkers,
and it made sense. So Pete was clever on how
he could cut the dirt down. Looking into the bunkers,

(06:23):
even though greens would be set down on the grade,
and he played a lot of holes with Pete Dye
where the greens were laying right on the ground. But
he was able to shape it to where you could
see into the bunkers and really a great artist. Pete
died and people never realize Pete was a really fine golfer,
and so was Alice, his wife, who had a lot
to do with it. Of course, they lived right there

(06:45):
at Casa de Campo on the mpside third ty and
on the right hand side of the sixty the part three,
right on the best lot on the whole property. In fact,
that's a great story. Pete was never paid a penny
to work down there for over fifty years.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
He took that estates as his pay. And then when
he finally sold it, he sold it to Herb Cohler,
which who had he had brought Herb down there. Of course,
he had built black wool run two courses for Herb.
And ironically, the first time Herb Cohler ever played in
the at and t Pebble Beast, the commissioner called me
and asked me to play with it. In fact, I

(07:22):
took Herb and Natalie, who were both passed to the
first time they had ever been to the Masters. And
Herb was trying to get into the golf world. And
he had these two courses called Black Wolf Run, and
then of course Pete built the third one called Whistling
Straits that we all know, and then he built the Irish.
But he became very close with Herb, and Herb actually
bought his property and built a newer house. If you

(07:44):
ever stayed with Pete at Cassia, compet was literally was
a grass traditional Dominican hut, but it was a lot
of these huts and you could be having dinner at
night you see a little rat run across through there,
you know, from the kitchen across the other room, and
everybody laughed, but they were armless. But you were just
living out in the wild, and that's the way he
wanted it. And his golf courses were wild and wooly

(08:06):
and very natural.

Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah. What is it about a peak dye golf course.
I've only had the chance to play one. There's not
many in our area up here, but you know that
just makes them so diabolical. I mean that was always
the term you heard peak diabolical. What was it about
his his architecture.

Speaker 4 (08:24):
Well, when he.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
Built the Teeth of the Dog, basically they had wheelbarrows
and shovels. They had a little bit of farm equipment
to float out the fairways. But Kasikampo is basically on
the rock up above the ocean. It's coral rock, it's limestone,
and you don't dig a hole in the ground without
hitting rocks. They had to bring in kalechi, which is

(08:44):
it's a byproduct of the sugar mill, and then they
brought in clay and they mixed it and blended it,
and kalechi was very rich for growing grass. But it's
just the way he strategizes his golf holes. You could
imagine a lot of golf holes. If it's a dog
agg to the right, the cart pass might be on
the right hand side of the hole. Then you'd have
to cross in front of the ts and you go

(09:05):
down on the left side, and then you enter the
green back again on the right side. So it's almost interiorly,
it doesn't look like it when you play it, but
if you look at the strategies, it's almost like double
dog legs. And the way he strategized his bunkers were terrific.
He also built really steep slopes and shapes, love pot bunkers.

(09:28):
You know, there's a big plaque down there that commemorates
Pete's life on the eighth green at Cosa de Compo
and it says, bearing me in a pot bunker. And
of course his ashes were spread at Calsa de Compo
after he passed away to an unknown location. But Pete
certainly loved that was his favorite place in the world.

(09:49):
And again he built some wonderful golf courses. PGA West
was incredible. T sawgrass was the toughest thing he'd ever seen.
When I won there in eighty two is tournament, Jack
Nicholas was quoted. They asked him how he liked the
course at a great course if you like to hit
a six iron boot of a Volkswagen and make it stop.
So he'd had a way to build these little subtle

(10:12):
whole location pin placements areas of greens and had a
lot of contouring. The ball tended to run off the greens.
And of course they'd been copied a lot by people
like Tom Doak and Gial Hamps and I think Crenshaw Corp.
And Ben's one of my closest friends. I'm not being
critical of them. They're great looks. You know it happens
at Pinehurst two Donald Ross roll the ball off the end.

(10:33):
I remember playing two the first time and I hit
the most beautiful shadow in the second hole, and I
thought I was six feet in the hole and it's
like eighty feet down the valley to the right, in
the back of the green. I'm going, wait a minute.
But he strategized golf courses that rewarded great shots and
if you didn't hit it quite so good, it would
penalize you. He also had a knack for building golf

(10:56):
courses that had really nice fairways, but if you hit
it in the rough. He had a lot of native
grassespc sawgrass originally had a lot of beheas, and had
centipede and had carpet grass, and ultimately the Augustin National
Look one out, which was this perfect turf, but it
had palanettos all around it. Well, the tea the same thing,

(11:17):
the teeth. The teeth had this guinea grass that grows
about three to four foot high, and inside of that
you had a grass called pahone, which we still have,
which has a sea had like you see the fescuse
in Scotland is very arid. It loves dry air and
not a lot of moisture. And then inside of that
we have what's called tropical signa grass which is like

(11:38):
crab grass you'd see on a Florida golf course in
nineteen forty five. And then you have this most beautiful
past pal on fairways, which is like playing on bent
grass now and past pile on greens because the pass
paddle loves the salt air, it loves the salt, and
there's a salinity content in the water down there, and
it just loves the salt where bermudas you put salt

(12:00):
on bermuda's and they'll turn a little bit, which is
a warm season grass, and it'll turn a little bit
yellow intent So you have to really keep the iron
up if you put salt on a bermuda grass. But
the past palain just loves it. It caused a compo and
you're going to see a golf course. It's going to
be immaculately maintained, and you're going to see the traditional

(12:20):
peak dice strategies. You're gonna see the rock walls, you're
gonna see the the russ with the pahone and the
signa grass, so if you hit it in their generous fairways.
Pete to me always had extremely wide fairways, but then
when you got around the green, you better hit a
good iron shot.

Speaker 3 (12:37):
Yeah, no doubt. Well you said it, and it's I
was fortunate enough to go to Costa Campo about five
years ago, and I've been three or four times since.
It's my favorite place in the world too. I've become
friends with Robert Purtel, the director of golf there, just
a great guy, and when he told me they were
shutting the course down for a full year, I mean
the first thing I thought was, how like, you know,

(12:58):
kind of brave that was right here. You are as
a resort that that that thrives on tourism and getting
people to come, and you care that much about your
your course and the history of it and the future
of it that you're going to shut it down for
a full year to redo it. I thought that was
an incredible decision by them, and I just cannot wait
to see the see the results.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
Well, you're talking about a golf and family, and you
think about the Lima family who are Dominican that that
are partners in a company called Central Omana that owns
Costa da Kampa with the Whol's peppy fund. Who loves
to shoot. He he loves golf. You have Louis Fernandez
who's now the COEO of Florida. Crystal is the sugar
company behind it, and his brother in law, Tad Ryan.

(13:39):
They're Tad, they're both Seminole members. Luis loves the game.
He's I'm not going to tell you all the clubs,
but they're members a lot of golf and they love
the game and they reinvest in the development. By what
brought people to Costa da Kampa. What's the brand? The
Teeth of the Dog, the golf courses. It's not only
just the Caribbean and the beautiful. There's a lot of

(14:00):
Caribbean out there, but there's only one teeth of the Dog.
And I'll tell you the gother golf course, the second
golf course. When he built the Teeth in seventy or
sixty nine, he came right behind that in the late
seventies early eighties and started building what's called the Lanx Course.
I think the Lanx Course is one of Pea's best
works and it needs the total face lift too. Agronomically,

(14:23):
it doesn't need strategically any changing. You know, it's not
super long. We've actually lengthened out the teeth a little bit,
but it's not super long. Peedeed out of a few
tees here and there. But I think the strategies make
it very challenging. And to me, I always said this,
if you could build a golf course that had Pete
Diye's strategies and playability in the agronomics that Jack Nick

(14:48):
was put into courses. When I first saw Mirfield Village
in nineteen seventy six, it was a damn just maintained
golf course. I mean it made it brought augusta National
up to the next level. Jacknip for such a perfectionist.
Ed Etgels who's his head agronomic guy, back in seventy five,
and they opened seventy five and in the first memorial
seventy six I played in, you know, more than a dozen.

(15:11):
You never saw a golf cours condition better Pete for
a little bit kind of raggedy on the d loved
it that way. You know, Pete wore kind of paeriled,
dirty khaki pants and a pair of tie shoes. In fact,
we had the twenty fifth anniversary of the Players Championship,
which I guess we've had forty three of them now
or whatever. We've had eighty two, forty forty three. And

(15:35):
Pete had on the same shoes that I threw him
in the lake, and he had the same shirt and
the same pair of pants. I looked at him, said,
that looks just like him, Alice and Alice kirs Jerry,
that's the same pair of shoes. I mean, he wore
the same shoes and just re sold him for about
fifty years. And it wasn't like he was out of
money or anything. He just was very simple. He kept it.

(15:55):
He kept it simple, stupid, and his golf course is
really as complex as they were strategically in art form.
It was a pretty simple construction job to build a
Pete die Goffers And I can remember him about shaping.
He had a great guy named David post Away who
shaped for him, that worked on a lot of courses.
I think he worked in Lee Schmidt worked out at

(16:19):
PGA West, and Lee went on to China and build
a lot of great golfers. But I remember asking about
post Away because he was about half crazy and he
had to reshaped the golfers under Pensacola con Tiger Point
back about nineteen eighty three or four after the TPC
got opened, And I said, what do you tell him, Pete?
He said, tell them to go out there and just
make a mess and don't smooth anything out. We don't

(16:40):
want you to drag it out, smooth it out and
make it look like it's all a nice rounded art form.
And we don't want it perfect. We want it jagged
in rough. And that set him apart because those areas
and mounds that he built initially at the Players where
he did a lot of golf oak tree, gosh, oak
Tree had to be you know, so many good peak

(17:02):
die golf courses out there. I remember playing those that
the French lit golf course really was a good golf course.
We played played a senior PGA there and it was
an old golf course that had been refurbished. But he's
done so many fine works, worked on a lot of
golf courses that people wouldn't even know about. But he

(17:22):
was a genius in architecture, and of course Alice had
a lot to do with it. Now and I can
remember the first time I played with Pete was in
nineteen eighty four and I remember looking at his irons.
I think he had Ben Hogan irons, and it was
an old set of chrome plated forged irons, and I
remember there's just a brown dot right in the face
of every eye and I'm looking at it and I'm

(17:44):
looking for him. And he never took it, DIVI, but
he kind of hit a sweeping shot, but he had
everyone on them right in the face. And these clubs
had to be fifteen years old. He'd hit so many
shots right in the face. He had worn the chrome off.
It was with the perfect little brown dot of russ
where you know, every time he played, get a little
moisture rush back to the little brown spot. I said,
you're a hell of a player if he could do this,

(18:05):
and he said, yeah, I've hit a few balls. So
he was a good player, not championship caliber, but he
could really play. He could shoot, you know, par in
his day.

Speaker 3 (18:13):
What's funny, My goal is to get Harry Mays to
Costa Campo because he has not been yet. Danielle and
I have it's funny because we went last year and
I remember saying to a couple of guys there were
two guys that came with me that were there the
year before, and I said, guys, you know, we have
an opportunity to go back. I said, but teeth of
the Dog is closed. And the first thing they said
was is die for open? I said yeah, they said,

(18:37):
I'm in, you know, because and it's so amazing to
be on this property. That's why I can't wait for
Harry to get there, because it is a true golfers
paradise right where you have the the juxtaposition of this
golf course on the ocean and then you're up in
the mountains where your eye level with these birds looking
down at the Schruvon River. I mean, the dramatic ups
and downs of that property are just in credible.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
Well it is. And the Chavonne River is actually the
river where they shot the movie Apocalypse now stout up
that river when they brought off et boats up there.
A lot of people don't know that, but going to
Kato de Compo.

Speaker 3 (19:14):
There is a.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
Medieval city built out of wood, timbers and stone. And
I'm not talking about a little bitty like city. I
mean a full born city that Charlie Bluehorn's wife hired
two really famous Italian architects in nineteen late seventies and
early eighties and brought them there in Stone by stone
built this city. They built the Amphitheater. I mean everybody

(19:40):
from Julio Glacis to Elton John who's played there. It's
a beautiful Roman amphitheater, Italian looking amphitheater looking outdoor theater.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
And then they have the.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
Most beautiful cathedral and you would swear it's like eight
hundred years old, and it's.

Speaker 3 (19:59):
Correct.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
Out took the bond which means Altos above the Chevonne
River and that's where the dive the die for courses headquartered.
There's three nines. You have the Lagos which was the
last one. You have the Chavonne on the river, and
then you have the Marina that plays downhill to the
marina but the ocean. It drops some two hundred feet
in elevation down and comes back up. And we've been

(20:21):
actually picking at those golf courses. We've done a lot
of work on them. You wouldn't notice it, but agronomically
we brought them way up in condition. They're in beautiful condition.
We brought some of the guinea grass in between the
holes and when Pete built that golf course it was
like seventy eight hundred yards and said, Peach, you've lost
your mind. Let me tell you, these guys are going
to be hitting at three hundred and fifty yards. Wait

(20:42):
a minute. When I was on the tour in the eighties,
I was in the top twenty five longest hitters and
I was like two seventy. When I went on the
senior tour at fifty, I was two ninety. And he's
out there now. First, I'm old. Now I'm about two
sixty at seventy years old, seventy two. But these guys
today are hitting it three fifty, no problem, three thirty five.
I mean, I have people ask me, well, how does

(21:03):
Scotty shefferd win all the time? I said, well, if
you hit three thirty in the middle of every fair work,
it's pretty easy from there and even put it all.
But the Chevon is the most beautiful nine on top
of the Chavonne River, and those courses are an excellent condition.
In fact, we redid about three years ago. We did
all the bunkers in the greens at the Lotto mount

(21:24):
of Country Club, which is another peak dye course. It's
not open to the public. But if you come down
there with me, I'll get you.

Speaker 3 (21:29):
I was fortunate enough to play that on the last trip.
My senior Burtel was very kind to me and got
me on that course, and I'll never forget it.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
Well, there's five golf courses there, and then I just
love the Lynk's course. It needs a facelift like what
we've just done to the tees. And I think we've
got to rest a little bit for a while until
we make that decision. And that's up to the hotel
group and the company. But you can't have and you
know the thing about it down there too, And I

(21:59):
tell you there's five of the greatest restaurants you've ever
eaten or sit and from Italian food up top, and
there's mex probably I said five or six, there's about six.

Speaker 4 (22:08):
I know.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
There's probably fifteen restaurants you can go to inside the
development down at the Marino. There's probably five or six
alone down there, whether you go to the the La
Pacetta up top, which is the Italian restaurant, a hotel,
or the beach club. Just fabulous place to go visit.
In fact, I'm going to be I'm having my fiftieth
anniversary on the twenty eighth of this month. And I've

(22:31):
been trying Tuesday after in all the world, you know,
we've been everywhere but mainland China, and I thought, where
am I going to take my wife? And we were
just thinking. I said, I got to be down there
on the sixth of the Decepner. We're the have like
a little soft opening, and I said, why don't we
just go down there for a week. So We're going
to go down there, and I'm going to take Steve
Dane in my office. There's my senior design partner. Steve

(22:51):
is Princeton graduate, smartest hell I studied architecture, graduated, captain
of the Princeton team, really a fine player, and he's
been with me over twenty five years. And so his
wife and Susie and I we're all going to go
down there, Michelle, and we're gonna try to hang out
and play some golf with Sorry, nice.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
Very nice, congratulations on the anniversary. But you have yourself
have designed what upwards to around fifty golf courses, you know,
have your signature on it. What in your view makes
a great piece of land or or what makes a
great piece of land that's suitable to put on, you know,
put a golf course on. And what are the characteristics

(23:31):
of a Jerry Pate design.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
Well, first of all, you know, there's three things that
make a great golfers. One is the aesthetics, and that's
the land that you find. The second is strategic, and
that's how you strategize holes uphill, downhill, left, the right,
dog legs, short holes, long holes in between holes. You know,
drivable par threes long excuse me, four, drivable par fours,

(23:55):
long par threes. And today you know, I've built some
two hundred and forty five yard fifty yard par threes
that really people never say it's too long because the
people that can play play their back tea. The people
that play up played two hundred to one ninety five
that are blue tea white players. But the greens fair,
you know, and it could be a giant green that

(24:15):
goes in left to right. Most people hit it left
to right. But the last is agronomically. So if you
have a good piece of dirt, a lot of sand,
and then you have water. You got to have water.
That's important. A lot of people don't people want to
build golf somewhere. You say, where it's the water coming from,
I don't know, And you've got to dig lakes and
find the water and buy the water or whatever. If
you're building one in the desert in California, you know

(24:37):
there's no water. They've got it in the ground that
you've got to pay for. It's pretty expensive. And a
lot of that water comes in through aqueducts off the
Colorado River for farming. But what makes the golf course
that we build. We like to build golf courses that
will absolutely challenge all levels of play. I just have
played some really nice golf courses in California and buy

(25:00):
some newer architects. I'll just put it that way. And
I'm not going to throw anybody on the bus because
I love every type of design I do. I just
love the game. But sometimes they're set up where the
greens all fall off and the ball runs off and
the bunker runs off the edge. You know, there's eleven
or twelve golf courses at Pinehurst. Number two does that,

(25:23):
but number one, three, four, you know, they don't do that.
And those are the original first four. Donald Ross did.
He built one that was really tough, and the rest
of them are fun. So we'll have to realize if
you're not ever going to get a US Open there
or major championship tournament, the golf course shouldn't be brain
surgery out there. It should be recreation and fun. So
if you strategize your greens from left to right, you know,

(25:46):
straight in, and that's really I don't do a lot
of just straight left to right coming across the hazard
four scarry greens on many holes. I might do it
on some short hold three parts, but we're going to
give the golf a chance to run the ball into
the green. And then if I want to make it tougher,
you play the batteas, you cut the greens down, get

(26:06):
them a little faster, you turn the water off, make
it I'll play hard and fast, Christy, and you locate
the pen in a place that's more challenging, around the
water hazard or a bunker. And that's what I would
say is the strategies that make great golf holes. And
you know, when I started working early on learning the
design I learned. Really I was lucky. You know, I

(26:28):
met with Pete, talked to Pete. But the first course
I ever built was a golf course in northwest flaoida
called Bluewater Bay, and I worked with Tom Faszio. I
was twenty three, it was about twenty eight. He knew
a lot about it, and I didn't know anything about it.
I knew a little bit, you know, and hung around
some good designers, Jack and I hung around Pete. But
you know, and again it's how good is the land

(26:49):
and how much money do you have? People ask me,
can we build a golf course? Year? I go, yeah,
you can build a golf course in candilever it off
the Empire State Building if you want. It just costs
you a lot of money. And so a lot of
the great golf courses we see today or not minimalist
golf courses. Theyre not low budget golf courses. They are
very expensive. But I see things that like Mike Kaiser,

(27:11):
who I think is doing great work following his dead's steps.
And when you see stream Song, which was an older
banded phosphate mines in Lakeland, Florida, there's lots of dirt
and sand, and it's easy to push sand around and
make it look like something. But when you are working
in rock, or you're working in clay or muck, the

(27:33):
golf courses are going to struggle unless you have a
lot of money to do all the right things and
any of these great works that we've been seeing in
the last ten or fifteen years, or really on sandpiles,
whether you start out at Sandhills with Ben and Christy
one of my closest friends on the PGA tour. He
and Bilker did a spectacular job there. Or you go

(27:54):
out to band and Dunes when Tom Doak started in
Ben and other folks who have come along, and you
go down a stream song with get Ohant's working there
again with Dope with with Cranshaw and these are really
nice sandy sites. You go to a golf course that's
in east of Columbus, Georgia called fall Line that was
done by uh oh God, I'm I'm I'm getting old

(28:16):
Jeff ogleby uh ogilby. Uh is that right? That I'm
drawing a blank?

Speaker 1 (28:21):
And one he won the US own the US Open
at Oakmont.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
Yeah, he throw off the tree. He wanted oak my
for sure, and uh he built beautiful thirty six holes.
And then you can go out to uh to uh
a Gilhants course again he did in the Valdelia Onion
country over there. Uh uh oh gosh, isn't that terrible?
But I played it a year ago. But a beautiful

(28:44):
golf course, but they're in sand hills and uh uh.
When you start building golf courses like Fasio and I
had to build Old Overton, which was an old abandoned
strip mine in Birmingham. And after we shaped the strip
mine with d nines around for about a year, then
we looked at each other and went okay, Chris basically
with Andy Bay, I lived in Birmingham two years to

(29:05):
build it. Andy Banfield and I really built it, and
Tom could come down and put his blessings on things
he trusted. Andy obviously is one of his great designers.
Blake Vicksburg. You know Tom marsof Tom Griswoll worked on
that property. But Tom said, hoop hoopy was at the
course we're talking about Old Overton, and Tom had so many,

(29:27):
so many really good guys working for him. But after
we built it and got it looking like there's going
to be a golf o, we had to find dirt
to put on it in The golf literally didn't have
six inches of clay on top of it. And so
everything has to have positive slope and you can't run
the ball off the green into a bunker because every
time it rains three inches in an hour, you'd wash
all the sand out. So it's a total different site.

(29:50):
But in spite of that, that golf Burst won Best
New Golf Burst of the Year out of three hundred
plus golf urses built in America by Golf Digest. So
you know, you have to we have some talent, but
site helps tremendously on some of these great works. And
having a budget. You know, Tom Fazio one of my
great mentors. We built Old over it and we built

(30:11):
two golf courses called Dancing Rabbit for the Philadelphia chalk
Tawl Indians in Philadelphia, Mississippi. A beautiful site in the
old timber land with just nothing but junk and clay
and bad soils. But we had a nice enough budget
where we could create something really nice for the public.
It's a public golf course and two of them. But
Tom is really uh, I mean, I've been really, I mean,

(30:33):
I worked. I built a couple of golf courses with
Ron Garrel. I did Palm Beach Polo early in my career,
and I did Tiger Point East with Ron and the
course after we built it the next year are kind
of bulldows that I brought David posted White. I got
into the TPC Sawgrass to look after winning in eighty two,
and I thought, you know more, I want it really dramatic.
And I think even Greg Norman's golf course that he

(30:54):
built down there and Jupiter, what was it was it
called Medallist, I've think he built that with Penny and
then he came back in there they softened it up
a little bit because they're pretty severe.

Speaker 4 (31:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (31:07):
Well, you talked about some of the you know, some
of these courses, and you know, obviously your career you've
had some incredible success on some incredible courses. I mean,
you win the US Amateur winning Walker Cup Team.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
Ridgewood, one of my favorite golf courses.

Speaker 3 (31:22):
Which Saint Andrew's at the Walker Cup team, right, you
have the low Amateur, the US Open up with Dinah,
you know, obviously the rookie win at the US Open,
Rookie of the Year, eight time PGA Tour winner, and
then obviously the nineteen eighty two players, you know, with
the iconic picture and video that we get to see
every time the players comes back I mean, did you

(31:43):
know in that moment, what an iconic moment that was
going to turn into.

Speaker 5 (31:49):
Well kind of you know what.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
So people I was lucky. I mean, it's a god thing.

Speaker 4 (31:54):
Really.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
I mean, people don't realize this. I was a walk
on in Alabama. I went a scholarship player in Alabama
in Casehall, for it's a football school. It wasn't Houston,
it wasn't Wake Forest, it wasn't Florida, it wasn't Oklahoma State,
it wasn't usc It was Alabama football good basketball in
those days. So I walked on at Alabama, and by
my third year I played the Florida Amateur for the

(32:17):
first time ever. I'd never played the state junior. Now
think about this, I was twenty years old. I'd never
played the state junior, never played the state amateur. I
played the Florida Amateur one time at Green Leave in
Hayes City, down there where Fred Ridley grew up, and
ended up beating Andy Bean, who was one of Fred's
teammates at Florida, and I won the amateur. So Andy said,
let's go try to qualify for the amateur. I go

(32:38):
to Jacksonville and I went to medalist there at San
Jose Club, which was a nineteen twenty eight Donald Ross.
I didn't realize my grandfather was one of the founding
members in twenty six seven or eight around there that
put up a thousand dollars to get the golf course built.
Never talked about San Jose because he was so proud
upon Avidra And so I won. I went to when

(33:00):
I went there, go to the World Amateur. I went there,
and so I started winning all these college tournaments, and
I was studying business to be in the co Cola business.
My dad was a co Cola bottler with two old
families that were original bottlers since nineteen twenties, and so
I knew I had a job at Coca Cola. But
I started playing. So I go play Jacksonville Open, and
I'm still a senior in college now. And of course

(33:22):
that Jacksonville was at Deerwood Well Tee and off on Sunday,
Arnold was leading. I was in second, and can you
imagine I was living in an apartment in the attorney
house on of golf team at Alabama. Nobody ever heard
of me. And then I made the cut that Hilton
had the next week make the cut at the at
the Masters and finished second and runner up by one
shot in the Low Amateur. I was I was running

(33:43):
up low Amateur. I got still got a nice silver
medal from Augusta National, which is my favorite place to go.
I mean it really is. Even though I one of
the US Open, It's hard to beat going to the Master,
just the way they have revered their and honored their
honor invitees and their champions, and the US Open has
got in the the USCA has gotten great about that
in the last twenty years of honoring their champions and

(34:05):
bringing the champions back to their championship events, whether it's
the Amateur or the Open or the Women's Open. And
then then I go to Pensacola Open. I'm still in
college and I finished sixth and Jerry McGee won. In fact,
I'll never forget Jill McGee holding this little baby. She
just had this baby, you kneho. The baby was Mike mcgheey,
who married Anoka Sorenston. And I pictures on the on

(34:26):
the eighteenth Green receiving the Low Amateur at the Pennscille Open,
and there's little Mike and I tease Anka Honka. I
tease them every time I see them about. I can
remember when Mike was born literally and then so my
dad said, well, why don't you try the tour? So
I played, you know, Hector NCAA. J Hass beat me
a shot, and I go to my Dina and I

(34:48):
tied J for low Amateur. I think we finished eighteenth.
So I knew I was going to get in the US.
I mean in I was low amaz Us opening but diner.
So I knew I was going to get in the open.
My dad says, well, look, don't worry about We'll just
keep playing. You might want to try a tour. So
I went to the qualifying school with Disney and it
was about six hundred and fifty people trying to get
twenty cars, and everybody's the nervous you're about to wet

(35:10):
your pants. I came out of the chute, and you
know what I made on the first hole, double bogie.
I was getting married in two weeks. I had no money,
I didn't own a car, didn't have a job, had
not graduated from business school in Alabama. I'd blown my
business degree. I'd blowed my job, really not but probably
at Coca Cola. And I double bow you the first hole.

(35:33):
I mean, I'm in tears walking off to the second hole,
and I said, you know what, you have blown your
whole life. It was this big right in front of me,
and I was about to cry literally, And Susie had
a broken leg, so she had a cast on walking
around hobbling down the fairways at the Disney magnota of course.

(35:54):
And I burned he the next hole and I went
into qualifying school. I beat all six hundred and twenty people.
So and I have to tell that the young kids
all the time, you know, just don't ever quit, don't
let a double bogey or bogie get you down. Just
go body the next time. You know, it's one shot
at a time. And that's the way life is. And
of course my life changed drastically about thirty five years ago,

(36:16):
you know, and i'd been hurt again. I was done
at twenty eight and thirty seven years of having a
college golf tournament in Birmingham. Tigers want it, you know,
George space Play. I can name every kid on the
tours played in it. You know. David Toms wanted hell.
David Tomas probably sixty years old, that's how old I am.

(36:38):
He wanted to LSU with Graham McDowell. You can go
on and on. Justin Thomas, you know Bill Hoss, you
know guys that played on the tour that want it.
But the crazy thing is I tell every one of
them have a backup plan when you try that tour,
because here I was twenty eight, been in the top
ten every year but seventy seven and I hurt my wrist.

(37:01):
I actually won two times in seventy seven after winning
the Open, I won the first tournament out of the block.
I won FEEDIX Opens, first term of the year, after
Player of the Year or co player of the Year
with Jack and Rookie of the Year, and then I
win that and then bam, I hurt my wrist. So
I was out for about six months and I only
played about fifteen sixteen times, which the year before I
played about thirty. And then by the time I was

(37:24):
twenty eight, I hit one shot right after one of
the players about two months tore my left shoulder cartlage.
They didn't have MRIs or CT scans like the day
and didn't know what to do. I played three years crippled,
and then finally I went into ABC Sports in nineteen
eighty eight and I gave it up and I started
building work golf courses. I bought some golf courses and
I kind of took my business background what I had

(37:47):
learned and put it into motion and went a different direction. So,
you know, I didn't play for almost twenty years when
I turned fifty, and then that was my goal, is
to get my shoulder well. Jim In Andrews did four surgeries,
Jove did one, so I'd had five surgeries on this,
went back on the Senior Tour and ended up winning

(38:07):
a couple of times. You know, after winning a couple
of times, I kind of got bored. I'll be honest.
I always liked the challenge. I said, okay, I did
that before, I've done it again. Let's keep doing something else.
So I've been working hard on my businesses. I brought
my kids and family into my businesses and and been lucky.
You know, it's a god thing. I mean, it was
a gift by God that kind of saved me from

(38:29):
going down the wrong road because I could have said
poor me and blown everything. But I had good family,
good friends, good mentors and support that allowed me to
to take the high ground. And I had a good faith.
I mean, I'm a faith based person in spite of
the people I went to college with. When I was
at a fears drunner and you know, lived at the

(38:51):
Photogitary House half the time and went to every sporting
event you could go to. I was the life of
the party. And even my coach never thought I was
serious had rayling, but I was serious. I was always
a competitive fire, but I had this facade that I
was a happy, go lucky you know, using orange golf balls,
jumping lakes, throw the commissioner late it down.

Speaker 6 (39:14):
You know.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
I didn't think it was going to get the exposure.
And Pete Dye came up to me and I said
in the twenty fifth aen verse, he said, and Alice
pulled me aside. We had a black tie event which
was actually a white jacket event at the Players with
Dean Beaman and Tim Finchan through it and uh and
Pete cornered me in the sign and said, you know,
thank you. That was the greatest gift anybody ever gave me.

(39:35):
I got more exposure off that one moment to build
my career and for people to know who in the
hell Pete Dye was, and the most diabolical architect in
the world still today. I mean, and I'll tell you
there's a couple of them are chasing in pretty close
biddles and hard golf courses and uh. And you have
to be careful because you still want it to be fun.

(39:59):
And every course is going to have the US Open,
And we've got tens of thousands of golf verses now
and and we want to keep building the golf game,
but we also want to challenge people at the same time.
We want to test people to see how good they really.

Speaker 3 (40:12):
Can be, no doubt. Well, this was an absolute honor
to talk to you and and hear some of this
and and pull some of these lessons and nuggets that
you gave us. We appreciate that. I cannot wait to
get back the teeth of the dog to see what happens.
But we always wrap up our show with this. We
are a Philadelphia area podcast and we like to put
people on the spot. What is your favorite Philadelphia area

(40:35):
golf course?

Speaker 2 (40:36):
My favorite Philadelphia right now is.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
Jalen Hurt, Alabama.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
And it got a receiver number six and then too bad,
I was on the sideline when to of threw that pass.
Oh yeah, to Smith to catch that that pass. But
you know, Philadelphia, h Marion is great. I'd have to say, Marion,

(41:06):
you know I love White Marsh. We played the Philadelphia.
That's a great story. And I'll do it at two seconds.
You know, I'm a rookie and I'm leading with two
holes to play, and that's the tournament. Two weeks before
US Open, up seventeen hit it the bunk on eighteen,
left in the bunker, blasted it out and ended up
losing by the playoff. Tom Kite Terry Deal went to

(41:27):
playoff and Susie thought I had parted because I got
it up and down out of the bunker for I mean,
she thought I'd birdied it to tie. But anyway, if
I had won that tournament, I would have probably not
even qualified. The next week I went to Charlotte and
was qualified for the US Open, and then took a
week off and went home and came back to Atlanta

(41:48):
one So I loved Philadelphia. There was a guy named
fitz Dixon and Houston on the seventy six. He'd have
a party every year at his house and for an
old poor kid from Alabama northwest Florida to go to
a home like he is that I wanted to say,
called Edelbrock Farms, and I'm pulling the names out of
the Urdenheim farm. Wow, there was a and after I

(42:11):
won the open, I had enough money that I went
there to Malumium and Sons and bought an oriental rug
in Philly, so oh wow. So I still have great
memories of Philly. I used to love. My mother was
an artist, so I took art design and I had
to take music and piano and singing the choir, playing
the band, you know, in the sixties. So and my

(42:31):
son Jamie's kind of taking on that role also as
a buttondale collar rock and roll. But I love the
art design, So Susan, I would always go shopping in Philly.
You had the great antique store with from Philly.

Speaker 3 (42:43):
That's awesome. Yeah, we love that. We love here in
White Marsh. That's that's a great one. Well, Jerry, thank
you so much for coming on. You know, obviously a
huge fan of of of everything you've done. And like
I said, I can't wait to get back and see
my friend Robert Purtel and all the great staff there,
the great caddies, and see what you've done. The teeth
of the Dog. Very exciting.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
Well, it's not about me, it's all about the people.
And they have such a great team at Costa de Compo.
And I would say this to any and I have
my friends all over the southeast who could easily get down.
Of course, you can get there NonStop from from from
anywhere in the world out and prove to Kana, but
you got to go to Costa Compo. It's the most
unbelievable place to go play golf.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
Can't wait.

Speaker 3 (43:23):
I agree. Well, thank you so much for joining us, Jerry.
We'll talk soon, and uh let's take a quick break
and we will be right back. Thank you, all right,
welcome back to Swing It and Ding It. And Harry
just reminded us that that was our first ever major
champion winner on the program, Jerry Kate. Yep, how about

(43:44):
that us O champion.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
Yeah, and he came you know, he came in lost
in a playoff for the PGA in nineteen seventy eight
at Oakmont, So he came close there too.

Speaker 3 (43:55):
And you if you didn't if he didn't have that
shoulder injury, I mean, yeah, I probably could have won
where I mean just I mean, like I said, It's
like a time capsule talking to him, just a wealth
of information that, like it could have been a three
hour episode and we probably would have heard like stuff
that we couldn't have even imagined. But I mean, I
cannot wait to get back down the cost of the campo.

(44:17):
What he said about you know what they did, how
about some saltwater tolerant past palam Harriet like that.

Speaker 1 (44:25):
I love the agronomy. That's awesome. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (44:30):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
You know, he's the largest Toro distributor in the country
for all the Toro mowers that the golf courses use
around you know, he's he's got quite a business.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
And Danielle I asked him the Philly question. Yeah, and
how about this for for a name, one that you
know we don't get as often, but we have gotten
before White Marsh.

Speaker 1 (44:54):
I like that he played there in the old iv
B Classic back in the seventies and came close to
winning one of the years.

Speaker 3 (45:01):
And then he told us I believe he told us
on the break, Harry right about Pine Valley? Was that
on break? I don't know.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
Yeah, he's never played it, but he's walked it.

Speaker 3 (45:08):
He's been there twice. The weather was so bad the
two times he went Danielle that he couldn't play Pine Valley.
Imagine going u Pine Valley twice and not being able
to play it because the weather's a bit that's awful,
Harry mashit.

Speaker 6 (45:20):
Yeah, exactly, exactly, Yeah, yeah, you get all set up,
you're ready to go, and it's like just getting right now.

Speaker 4 (45:30):
Just kidding talking about weather though, Harry, this is the one.

Speaker 6 (45:33):
Time that I can like legitimately complain. I know it's
thirty there.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
But it was.

Speaker 4 (45:40):
This morning.

Speaker 3 (45:40):
Everyone's saying everyone's freaking out about Florida.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
Yeah, well they put The whole thing is that.

Speaker 6 (45:46):
The iguanas fall from the trees after it drops like
below like forty five or whatever.

Speaker 4 (45:50):
But like which honestly is what nightmares are made out of.

Speaker 6 (45:54):
If that actually like happened, but in like nine or
ten years of living here, I've never seen it, never.

Speaker 3 (45:59):
Been hit within a Danielle, she's a black eye.

Speaker 4 (46:05):
Hit with guana fell out of the palm tree.

Speaker 3 (46:08):
All right, Well let's roll the pall and iguana is
right in the tea. I don't know how that didn't
qualify for tea.

Speaker 4 (46:14):
But it should, right, all right, Well, let's get into it.
So Live Golf their version of Q School.

Speaker 6 (46:23):
They're calling it promotions, and it's set for Florida this year,
so it's giving players a shot to earn a live
roster spot.

Speaker 4 (46:29):
For twenty twenty six. Sounds great.

Speaker 6 (46:32):
Who wouldn't want to go trying to get on you know,
Live Qualifying School, especially if you you know, didn't make
it through stage one, two, or you know three of
Q School. But the twist the PGA Tour immediately fired.

Speaker 4 (46:44):
Back because it is now in Florida's They.

Speaker 6 (46:47):
Issued a statement saying any PGA Tour affiliated player who
tease it up will face disciplinary action, including a one
year suspension. They even said that the event is unauthorized.
No player will be granted broadcast or image rights to
partic Pete And I mean it's the same pilicy they've
had since Live's first US event in twenty twenty two,
but this one because it's on US soil where last

(47:08):
year it wasn't and a lot of guys went to
try to qualify.

Speaker 4 (47:11):
So who actually shows up?

Speaker 6 (47:13):
Do we see some bubble corn fairy or deep world guys?
You know, But it's taking that risk for a shot
at the money in stability, So it's like, do we
stay far away from it?

Speaker 3 (47:23):
Now you have to play an extra day right there?

Speaker 1 (47:25):
Yeah, yeah, it's the other seventy two holes.

Speaker 4 (47:29):
Yeah, which is which isn't doesn't live stand for? Isn't
that like Roman?

Speaker 3 (47:34):
Nor?

Speaker 4 (47:35):
Yeah? Which it's like?

Speaker 3 (47:37):
And Terrel Hatton said that they had a survey he said,
I think he said it was like a year and
a half ago and he said only three guys voted
for seventy two, and in that time it now has
changed to seventy two.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
Also help the good world.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
Yeah, they're listening to their you know, I mean, you
know the Big ten.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
Has like sixteen teams in it. It's like live golf
can be seventy two. It really doesn't matter anymore, No,
it doesn't.

Speaker 4 (48:06):
Well, meanwhile, they just live just into new multi year
deal with track Man.

Speaker 6 (48:10):
So it's a full tech partnership, data integration, broadcast overlays,
enhanced player tracking for fans. So if there wasn't enough
to already pay attention to when you go to that
live event, the music, the dancing, whatever else is going on,
we now have full tech data integration with overlays and
everything else.

Speaker 4 (48:28):
For people to watch.

Speaker 6 (48:29):
So say what you want about live, but they've been
quick to adapt a lot of things. They keep trying
during stuff the wall, seeing what sticks.

Speaker 4 (48:36):
So we'll see.

Speaker 6 (48:37):
We'll see if it gives a viewers and deeper look
into the game, holds their interest anymore, and makes theon
want to watch the events.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
It will be interesting to see what the World Golf
Points system does because they still have shotgun starts as
far as I know, and it's still obviously a closed
shop with only fifty some players each week, so it's
not going to be even though they're playing seventy two,
it's not going to be tradition. Yea huge, but there'll

(49:03):
get some Yeah.

Speaker 4 (49:05):
Well in news always trending, it doesn't matter what he does.
If he crosses the road, I'm going to talk about it.
Tiger Woods, Rise of the King. It's a series, a
ten part series on Netflix that is dropping. So they
just announced that.

Speaker 6 (49:19):
So chronicling his career, his comeback, the wins, the surgery,
the mindset, you have it. So I think this is
going to hit both golf fans or even if people
just like general stories.

Speaker 4 (49:31):
I think it's going to be a must watch. So
excited to see that one.

Speaker 3 (49:34):
Yeah, when does that come out.

Speaker 4 (49:37):
It did. There was no date associated with it that
I saw.

Speaker 6 (49:40):
It just said Rise of the King announced the ten
part series and that he's you know, it's it's not
like that other one that came out where he had
nothing to do with it.

Speaker 4 (49:49):
This one he actually plays a part in it.

Speaker 6 (49:53):
So we'll see, we'll see what additional little nuggets we
learn or what we get from that. So last week
we were on hiatus. We didn't do anything, uh podcast wise,
but I was in Texas. I was in Frisco for
the PGA annual meeting with one of my clients, Jason Baale,
so got to go to the Cowboys at and T Stadium.

Speaker 4 (50:17):
Might have worn my Eagles gear there, might not have,
but I got to do that.

Speaker 6 (50:21):
And then Jason was honored as the National Teacher and
Coach of the Year, which was pretty cool.

Speaker 4 (50:26):
That was awesome.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
Yes, how are these facilities?

Speaker 6 (50:32):
Yeah, I mean, so we were at PGA Frisco Omni
Resort in Spa. The place as a compound, so obviously
they have golf out there. They have seventy five I mean,
I'm exaggerating, but I'm a female.

Speaker 4 (50:46):
That's what we do.

Speaker 6 (50:46):
And they have so many restaurants there, everything, so it
was awesome. It was a it was a great event,
and just seeing so many people from the industry there
was awesome. But later on they did a Hall of
Fame induction, which was pretty cool to.

Speaker 4 (51:02):
See some of those names.

Speaker 6 (51:04):
And then at the end of that, at the end
of the week, Peter Broom, who has als he's kind
of a legend within the accushionnit Titleist family, he was
honored as a the thirteenth ever member to get an
honorary membership of the PGA, so they honor him and
that was pretty incredible watching that and being there for

(51:24):
that too, So pretty cool event out in Frisco for
the annual meetings, just seeing you know, how large the
PGA actually is, thirty thousand members and teachers and coaches,
and just seeing them all come together. Obviously, Harry, you've
been to the PGA show in Orlando, so this was
my first annual meeting.

Speaker 4 (51:45):
But pretty cool.

Speaker 6 (51:46):
A lot to learn, a lot to see how they
operate and just how they're trying to learn new tech,
bring new technology to the people they teach, just growing
the game of golf, etcetera, etcetera. So really cool. And
then obviously while I was out there, you know, just
shopping around. I stopped out and I go, wait a second,
and those those retro sours and I saw from our
guys the icon of candy, the old school autoids, and

(52:09):
I was like, oh.

Speaker 3 (52:09):
Wait, do you found them in Texas or Florida?

Speaker 2 (52:11):
In Texas?

Speaker 6 (52:12):
Frisco, Texas in the Lakers store, bottle one in retros
hours and is having a great night.

Speaker 1 (52:23):
So the DGA Championship out there in a couple of years.

Speaker 4 (52:26):
Yeah, yep. So, but it's it's Texas.

Speaker 6 (52:29):
It's funny because I feel like it's just and maybe
I'm wrong and I'm not well traveled in Texas, I guess.
But in Frisco it's like you're going down the highway
and it just gets more like desolate as you go
down and you're driving, you get off one, you know,
exit whatever, but Omni, they just like identified, Hey, like
this is a great piece of land and now they're
building up, building it up all around there.

Speaker 4 (52:48):
And then the same thing.

Speaker 6 (52:49):
You go down the road another half mile and it's
like might be one or two things, but it goes
from like super populated, super dense to moving down and
it's like.

Speaker 4 (52:57):
Yeah, so they're setting it up.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
Oh yeah, very cool.

Speaker 4 (53:03):
So yeah.

Speaker 6 (53:04):
But other than that, did you guys have any other
any tea you want to contribute to? I didn't know
if there's anything else trending you wanted to talk to that.

Speaker 3 (53:10):
We the Internet Invitational, which I have watched every second,
every golf shot. The videos are like three hours long. Listen.
I love it. I mean, I just love watching I
love watching golf in all forms, and I like watching
people that are really good and play well and also
people that aren't great. But I mean, everyone is playing

(53:33):
so well in it.

Speaker 4 (53:33):
And who's your favorite parent?

Speaker 6 (53:36):
Who you going?

Speaker 3 (53:36):
There's so many people that are that are standing out.
I mean, I love future guests of the show. Francis
Alis from Barstool. I just think he's awesome. He's hilarious,
and he's more of like I think he plays as
like a five or a six handicap, but he's being
underestimated a little bit and he is just straining putts
and he's funny and he's hitting shots. I mean, Page
is just perfect, like she just is perfect in every way,

(54:01):
shape and form, and just as like an awesome teammate
and a leader. She was crying on social media Sa
and people are like ripping her. I'm like I saw that.

Speaker 6 (54:08):
Actually, like forget these guys, like they'll have ugly lives
and hate their lives.

Speaker 4 (54:17):
Like keep doing. It's entertaining. It's fun to watch Sarah
Winter that other.

Speaker 6 (54:22):
You know, I liked her because she's I've noted her
a little bit, but her partner is like, hey, sweetart,
She's like, don't come sweetheart.

Speaker 3 (54:28):
It just is what I love about it is it
just shows that you could meet someone on the first
t and I don't know them, they become your partner
in a match, and you would die for that person
at that point, right, Like they hit a bad shot,
come on, don't worry about it, I got your back, right.
Just I love seeing that, Like, okay, you guys are
now a team, and now you see teammates that like

(54:50):
get each other's back and try to win. It just
is I mean, you know, the course, it looks beautiful
out there all that, but I just love watching the
golf and what is it it's uh, it's YouTube on YouTube.
But like Brad Dalkey and Peter, some of these guys
are so damn good, I mean, hitting incredible.

Speaker 4 (55:08):
Shots and its humanizes it too.

Speaker 6 (55:10):
You almost feel like you're out there with them, you know,
like they're riding in the golf car, they're you know,
talking a little snack and then you like Moos said,
encouraging their teammates, et cetera. But it's like, yeah, you
sit there and you just get sucked in. You're like,
where did that hour and a half go?

Speaker 3 (55:23):
It's awesome. I love like all the haters and people
trying to rip it, and it's like, get out of here.
It's awesome. Like the fact that they actually turned this
into like showing real golf shots and shot tracers and
showing putts and show like turned it into like a
golf broadcast is remarkable because they never did anything like
wild he is he got knocked out pretty early. Yeah so,

(55:44):
but he was in it.

Speaker 4 (55:46):
And they're doing the right thing to get all the attention,
having the right people and.

Speaker 3 (55:51):
In the summer, and no one has talked about it
or leaked it or said anything. That's they must have
had a sign and insane it.

Speaker 1 (55:58):
Oh yeah, it was argoed and they had to sign something.
Oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (56:02):
Yeah. With as much as these people are on social media,
as much as they talk, it is shocking and nothing
is leaked, but I haven't heard a word.

Speaker 1 (56:08):
And where where where are they playing it?

Speaker 3 (56:10):
Where it's at the the best pro shoup guys.

Speaker 1 (56:14):
Uh oh Cedar Lodge or whatever? Yeah, yes, big Cedar
yeh big s.

Speaker 3 (56:18):
Yeah. So it's cool, like you see the whole Part
three course, which looks I mean, it looks like such
a fun trip because of the different golf courses there.
But yeah, it's been fun. But yeah, that's that's enough.
That's enough tea for me.

Speaker 4 (56:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (56:30):
Well, and then so we get to see Kai Trump
at the Anica this week. I saw that going on,
so we'll see how how that plays out.

Speaker 6 (56:39):
And then I don't know if you guys have been
paying attention to the Next Golf Tour at all.

Speaker 4 (56:44):
It's like a virtual golf league if you will. There's that,
and then there's also like the Grassroots League that's out
in like.

Speaker 3 (56:52):
Yeah, I've seen a little bit, but I have California.

Speaker 4 (56:54):
Yeah, I have to do some more digging to talk
about that. But the Next Golf Tour is season four,
which is kind of crazy. Oh yeah, didn't you guys
do that like us.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
Full Swing Season four?

Speaker 4 (57:06):
No, this is next Golf tours in season four. But
didn't you guys go to like CBB and Harry you didn't.

Speaker 1 (57:13):
That was a couple of years ago.

Speaker 3 (57:14):
That was. Yeah, it's actually in Philly tomorrow, citizen back
part where you can hit it off, you know, onto
the field was.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
Talking about a different thing with the MLB and.

Speaker 3 (57:23):
And yeah, the off turns a shadow creek with like
former and current Major League Baseball players. But MLB is
behind it, like it's right. Major League Baseball is is
sanctioning the tournament with players representing all thirty clubs. So
so John small In, that's what I said today. Guaranteed,
maybe Mike Trout, maybe Mike t Mark Moulder.

Speaker 1 (57:45):
Is really good, Derek Lowe from the former Red Sox
pitcher is very good. He'll be in that. I guarantee it.

Speaker 6 (57:52):
Oh awesome, we'll have to check that out. Well, guys,
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(58:13):
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Speaker 3 (58:19):
How about the the golf game. I was fortunate enough
to get back out on one of my favorite golf
courses anywhere, Southampton up in the Hamptons. It's just touch
a weather spot, it was. So we went out Saturday morning.
Our tea time was eight fifty. You look at the forecast,
it says maybe little rain. We get there, it's pouring.

(58:41):
So we waited like forty five minutes. We went out.
It was a a little bit of drizzle by the
third hole, jackets off, sunny, sixty five degrees and California day,
a perfect fall golf day. But that course it's one
of seth rainers. Like first, it's where he supposedly invented
the dog leg. Really on the front. I think it's like,

(59:02):
I don't want to say the wrong hole. People will
yelp me, but it's a dog leg left and it
was the first time that apparently that was that term
was used. So just I mean, you're looking at it's
the same piece of land with Shinnakok and National Golf
Links and then eventually sabonic. So it just is it's
it's just awesome.

Speaker 1 (59:18):
Yeah, that's prime real estate.

Speaker 2 (59:20):
Man.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
Yeah, that's awesome.

Speaker 3 (59:21):
How about you, Harry Been.

Speaker 1 (59:23):
Yeah, I mean, you know, just getting out there trying
to you know and green in this this new move
that I'm doing, and it's it's getting a little bit
more consistent. It's it can be frustrating, but uh, you know,
the kid put together a couple of holes at the
beginning of the match on Sunday and then closed the
thing up on seventeen and eighteen with a four for
three and a five for four to win.

Speaker 4 (59:44):
It love this, so you know, and it was the
what's a new move we're working on?

Speaker 1 (59:49):
Well, we you know, we we saw mister Saraki a
little Saki action at we'll call thatction littleraction. So yeah, yeah,
it's real good. When it's good, it's really good. So
I'm going to continue doing it over the winter and uh,
you know indoor and just try to hone it. So
you know, well it take it takes a while. You know,

(01:00:10):
when you make it, that's just a big change.

Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
Yeah, I mean we still going here with Mike or
what's the deal.

Speaker 4 (01:00:17):
Oh, I'm still well.

Speaker 6 (01:00:18):
It's funny because Friday, I'm flying back from Texas and
normally I have a recurring nine am lesson every Friday,
and I'm not getting into eleven. I literally was like,
you have anything later in the afternoon, like I want
to come in. I want to see my daughter real quick.
Then I woke my lesson and it didn't end up
working out because I you know how travel is right now,
so I didn't get back until a little bit later.

Speaker 4 (01:00:39):
But yeah, I'm already set up excited for this Friday.

Speaker 1 (01:00:43):
So working on the stuff in between you like.

Speaker 4 (01:00:47):
You I do my homework.

Speaker 6 (01:00:48):
He actually told me, like you know, he's learning me
as as a student too, and some of the things
like once you know, he'll tell me to work on
a certain thing, and once I start working on it,
he's like, Okay, now I need you to dial it
back a little bit because now, like your body knows
that move whatever. So we're going through everything, and Harry,
I see that you pay attention to a social a

(01:01:08):
little bit too, So.

Speaker 4 (01:01:09):
Yeah, some of the things you get.

Speaker 6 (01:01:12):
Yeah, and got this little mirror where I can see, like,
you know, my movement when I'm rotating, so I do
have to get out, and you know, I haven't had
a lesson now since I'm this last week, so I
do got to probably go get a little rain session
in real quick. But it should be at the point
where I can now go get fitted. You know, I
think five or six lessons.

Speaker 4 (01:01:32):
Now it's time.

Speaker 6 (01:01:33):
But I was with the whole title is Crew in Texas,
So I don't know if we're going to go with
shircs on.

Speaker 3 (01:01:39):
We're going to make the best offer, Danielle, Yeah, you
know best offer. You know.

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
I have about a seven foot by three and a
half foot mirror that I have in my right in
this room, right behind me, and I totally advocate getting
one of these things. If you're a golfer indoors man,
I'm telling you, when you can watch what you're doing,
it totally helps makes such a difference, it really does.

Speaker 6 (01:02:02):
So I have something kind of it's it's not like
a tall mirror, but it's it's actually a putting aid.
But you can if you move it back and it
has the lines in it, I can see if I'm
looking down.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
Oh yeah, that's on the floor.

Speaker 6 (01:02:14):
Yeah, And I can see if I'm moving outside of
those lines and what's going on. So it's like it
just that works for me. But I had the other
one in front, but it probably wasn't wide enough.

Speaker 3 (01:02:25):
To Yeah, you like a mirror on the ceiling hare,
I've experienced that I did. It took me thirty minutes
to realize I was grabbing my own ass to one
night though, that's when I stopped using Yeah, yeah, I was.
Probably I was a little.

Speaker 4 (01:02:38):
Drunk, I think rotating Ben.

Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
Yeah, all right, we're all working on the game. Next
year is going to be a huge year for us.
Talk about a big year for somebody. How about our
boy Benny Booms, Ben Griffin, Scotty Rory and Ben Griffin
the only three time winners on the tour this year.
That's a pretty good company to be in. Worldwide technology.
Third win of the season, get it done with the

(01:03:00):
aviators on ho hum. Give him another win hair.

Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
Yeah, man, I'll tell you in nine hunder sixty three
on Sunday he ran down Garrick Higo, the guy with
the big mop from South Africa's also I think he's
got two wins in his career on the PGA Tour
young player, but yeah, uh yeah, third win. He won
the Zurich with Andrew Novak the team event. He won
the Schwab in uh in Texas and now in Mexico.

Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
So future guest of Swing It and ding It.

Speaker 1 (01:03:29):
Yeah, absolutely the Danielle.

Speaker 6 (01:03:33):
I literally came home and Brandon I was like, what's
going on. He's like, oh, He's like, Ben's gonna win.
And I was like, Harry hasn't texted me yet. I
was like, he's going to be on me, like whit
on rides to get on the show.

Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
Oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
And then I watched the DP World Tour, you know,
the Abu Dhabi event, which is the penultimate event on
their tour, and man it was entertaining. Rory shot sixty
two in the final day and got close but not quite.
He ran out of holes. Aaron r and Tommy fleet

(01:04:10):
would end up going into a playoff. Nikolai Hoyguard got
was one back, made made almost made an eagle to
what would have been then joined the playoff and made
birdie on the eighteenth of fall one back, but Aaron
Rye ended up taking down Tommy Fleetwood on it believe,
the second playoff hole. They played the eighteenth twice and
made the putt to the win man. That's huge. But

(01:04:33):
now this week that's the big tournament, like that's their final.

Speaker 3 (01:04:39):
Invitational.

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
It basically is yeah, Abu Dhabi, he he's.

Speaker 3 (01:04:44):
Big in that area, yes he is. But on this
side of the world, ish we have the Butterfield Bermuda
Championship with Rapha compos defending. We'll talk about the course
of course, which sponsored by buy my Balls. T off
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(01:05:26):
you go out and you lose balls this time of
year because the ground is it's flying out there, I
mean well.

Speaker 1 (01:05:33):
Out there you need They're hard to find a ball
right now.

Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
You gotta get you find the fairway.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
You're gonna be looking. Yeah, the Butterfield Bermuda Championship. I
think Butterfield is a bank in Bermuda. I think that's
what the sponsor is. Uh. But they always play the
support Royal Golf Club. They used to play a tournament
where they take all the the winners of the majors
of that particular year would go there and play as
a like a foursome or something. But it's a really

(01:06:02):
cool golf course, par seventy one six eight twenty eight
in yards. Robert Trent Jones designed it back in nineteen seventy.
It's Bermuda grass everywhere, only two inch rough and actually
there's some Zoysia grass mixed in in the fairways. But
the average green moves eight thousand square feet eighty seven

(01:06:23):
sand bunkers, four water hazards and that's in play on
seven holes is the water numerous elevation change. Is a
real cool tournament to watch. With the golf course, I
really like kind of falling for this place. I'd love
to get to Bermuda and play it one of these days,
and you can. It's public. But the signature hole is
the one behind me, the par three sixteenth hole. It

(01:06:44):
spans two hundred and thirty five yards and the carry
is over a little cove made out of the Atlantic Ocean,
a really cool hole and just gorgeous views everywhere elevation changes,
big greens and a lot of wind.

Speaker 3 (01:06:58):
Love it. I love to see it. Uh, you know
when we see the line with our friends from Bett Parks,
I love our guy Nico. Yeah, it's down the twenty
two hundred. It was at twenty five hundred. So if
you want to hop on, hop on soon. And the
other guy I like here is is Eric Cole. You
have you have Bermuda greens here and he loves them,

(01:07:19):
so I could see him at that thirty three hundred
number having a good week. Matt Wallace is right in
that same area. Two. I think I need to fire
this week. I've been a little bit off. I haven't
been super active in the bet Park apps other than football.
But there's some there's some players in here, especially you know,
taking a look after day one right to see who

(01:07:40):
actually has it, who's here to win? But anything jumping
out for you guys.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
Yeah, I mean, like you know, Rapacompos, the defending champ
is way down at three hundred to one. I saw
that jump.

Speaker 3 (01:07:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
And Danny Willett, former Masters champion three hundred to one
in this tournament with this field was startling. I hit
the guy we talk, have you gone, he's forty to
one to win this tournam. He's clearly you know, you
look at this field, he's clearly the most talented probably
player in the field and he's at forty to one.

(01:08:11):
Matty Schmid, the Germans been playing some good golf. I
would take him in a top ten at plus three
hundred Nico, I agree with you. Moose and Kevin Roy
are armed buddy, who's been on the show minus one
thirty in a matchup over David Lipski.

Speaker 3 (01:08:28):
Wow. Even have the guys like Pavon who are way
down the list, like just you know, you could see
could some of these guys just get it back on
a week like this right and take advantage? You got
a hoy guard in the field too, looking at though.

Speaker 4 (01:08:41):
Yeah this year twenty.

Speaker 3 (01:08:49):
Yeah, well we'll see how this one plays out. I
like I enjoy watching this, tom This is this is
one of the ones that makes you want to go
there for sure when you're watching it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:58):
Beautiful scenery, this one in the next at Sea.

Speaker 3 (01:09:02):
Island, Well, this is it man. Yeah, we're gonna get
the itch. We're talking about costs of the camp, but
we're watching Bermuda. The bags are about to come in
the house. Like, now's when you got to start thinking.
We have to get down to see Danielle and Brandon
and the guys from buying my balls and West and
we gotta get down there.

Speaker 1 (01:09:18):
I gotta doing radio shows and just go screw this.

Speaker 3 (01:09:22):
Let's take it. Let's take a let's take a look
at it January, even if it's just you and I
for a long weekend, just a little getaway.

Speaker 1 (01:09:28):
I'm there you damn yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:09:31):
Absolutely, let's do its gone by when it was coming
down the steps, I'm actually looking at a little Hammock
Beach family.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:09:43):
So at least that'll give you around of golf at
the at the Ocean course for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
Beautiful.

Speaker 3 (01:09:49):
Yeah all right, well, thank you to Jerry Pate. It's
an honor to talk to him, right, I mean, talk
about eight PGA Tour wins, Major Champion, Ryder Cup win away.
We didn't even get that Walker Cup chant. I mean
when you talk about like pick a pick a person's
resume that you would take as like if you asked
a rookie golfer Like, Hey, take there's five resumes, which

(01:10:10):
one would you want?

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
Like?

Speaker 3 (01:10:11):
This is one of, you know, one of the top
ones for what he's done and now is widely considered
one of the best golf course architects working on a
place that's very near and dear to to us and teeth.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
Of the dog. So it was a walk on at Alabama.
How about I think about that?

Speaker 3 (01:10:27):
Wow? Very great stuff. Yeah, and once again to UH
to honor our friend Harry, Donnie you don't pick up.
We were able to go to his services, Harry and
I on on Monday and pay our respects and got
to meet some of Harry's family, which was cool. They
were very thankful to the tribute we did last week.
So we'll we'll make sure we keep remembering Harry throughout

(01:10:50):
this But thanks for listening and we'll be back next week.

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
Hey, it's Harry Mays. Pro and college football are back
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