12-7-24 The Weekend Hour 1: The "Lewis List", Michael Byrd & Ashley Babbitt

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The night. Michael Brown joins me here, the former FEMA
director talk show host Michael Brown. Brownie, No, Brownie, You're
doing a heck of a job the Weekend with Michael Brown. Hey,
welcome to the Weekend with Michael Brown. Glad to have
you with me. I appreciate you tuning in. So, you know,
for what, however long it's been now, I guess it
was the day after Thanksgiving that Joe Biden pardoned his

(00:22):
son Hunter Biden. And when he did, so, you know, everybody,
every I think in this case, I do mean everybody.
I don't know of anybody other than Hunter Biden and
Joe Biden and Joe Biden that were like, yay, oh,
this is a great We're happy we did it. Democrats
reupset about it, Republicans reupset about it. I mean, even

(00:43):
who did I hear? Oh, Charlemagne the God. I bet
i've you know, I bet in my twenty years, almost
twenty years now on radio, I bet I've used Charlemagne
the God. Well, I would say, before this year, I
bet I never one time in my entire life mentioned
to Charlemagne the God, and so far since the just

(01:06):
before the election, and then since after the election, I've
referenced Charlemagne the God, probably I don't know a dozen
times or so, a name that I never thought I
would use on air, and quite frankly, somebody that I
really didn't know much of anything about prior to the election.
But he was one of the ones that I heard
over the past week talking about the pardon. And so

(01:27):
here's a guy that supported Kamala Harris and he was going,
in fact, he was on the View. I should try
to find that sound bite and play it for you
in a minute. He was. He was on the View
really just bemoaning how bad the Harris campaign was, and
then he kind of swerved into the pardons and how
bad the pardons were and how that cost, you know,
the Democrats some credibility. And so he's been doing that.

(01:49):
Bill Maher has been doing that, the Raging Cajun, James
Carvill's been doing it. A lot of people have been
doing it on the left hand, on the right, including
yours truly. But at the same time that I bemoan
him doing it. Don't ever believe that I was surprised
about it. Don't ever believe that now there was a
point where I thought you know, he won't do it

(02:12):
because he's going to assume that if Kamala Harris gets
elected that that's part of the deal they made, and
that she will pardon Hunter Biden. But then when she
lost the election, I mean, when she got squished like
a bug in the election, but whatever arrangement they had
went out the window because she has no pardon authority whatsoever.

(02:33):
But as I've tried to explain to you, and as
I've explained to many of my friends, my own friends
who asked me, you know, how could he possibly have
done this? Well, the Constitution gives him the power to
do it. The Constitution is very clear. The president has
the power to just without any qualifications whatsoever, to issue

(02:53):
pardons and reprieves for offenses against the United States. I
think I'm quoting it, almost verbating with that. Looking, so
pardons and offenses against the United States, So it's it's
federal any violation of federal law, there's no qualifier. The
president may under these five circumstances issue pardons and offenses. No,

(03:14):
it's just that the president may do that. So he
can issue them pardons and commutations for any reason or
for no reason. And there have been other presidents who
have well, let's take my old boss for example. My
old boss George W. Bush issued some pardons that I

(03:36):
thought were no. You know, I'm not sure that person
really deserved a pardon. On the other hand, my old
boss George W. Bush refused to issue a pardoner easy
or even to commute the sentence of Scooter Libby. Scooter
Libby was the vice president's Dick Cheney was his chief
of staff, and Scooter Libby was and is I shouldn't

(03:59):
say it was. He still a lot. I think he
now works for the Atlantic Council or something. But Scooter
Libby was one of those people. Now, I didn't like
Dick Cheney, but I really liked his staff. His staff
was wonderful to work with. They were really decent human beings,
and they did really good work, and they were great
defenders of mine. So yeah, maybe a little biased. But

(04:19):
Scooter Libby got caught up in this revelation of and
I can't Vowery Plane was her name. I was about
to say I can't remember her name. Then boy, it
popped in my head. Vowery Plane, who was a former
CIA agent, and her name got leaked and everybody in Washington,
d C. This was back in probably two thousand and four,
two thousand and five sometime, and everybody was all, you know,

(04:41):
oh my god, it's the end of the world. Well,
lots of former CIA agents have had their names revealed.
It's not the end of the world. But Scooter Libby
is not the one who did it. But he got
caught up. And once again, you know, sometimes the worst
crime in DC D is getting caught saying one thing

(05:04):
in one interview with law enforcement, and then in an
interview that might be conducted a week later, you say
something slightly different, not even intentionally, but in the first
interview you may recall that, oh, I think it occurred
on Saturday, December seventh of twenty twenty four, and then
in the next interview you say, you know, I'm pretty

(05:26):
certain it was actually it was Sunday, December eighth, twenty
twenty four that such and such happened, and you're pretty
adamant about it. Well, now they'll catch you for perjury.
Were you lying in the first interview or were you
lying in the second interview? And suddenly you're facing a
criminal indictment. Well kind of in a roundabout way, that's

(05:49):
kind of what happened Scooter Libby. So many of us
lobbied for Scooter Libby. He was convicted, he was sentenced.
I forget what the sentence was, but whatever it was,
I thought outrageous, as did many other people in the administration,
and of course Dick Cheney himself thought it was outrageous.
And everyone lobbied Bush to commute his sentence or to

(06:11):
issue a pardon, and Bush refused to do so, and
to this day put a gun to my head. I
could not explain to you there's no rational reason why
he did not pardon Scooter Libby. To this data, I
don't understand it. So there are times when presidents don't

(06:31):
issue pardons or commutations that you think are wrong. And
I think that's a great example of it. So all
of this hullaballoo that we've heard about over the past,
you know, several weeks, is really kind of just like,
sit down and shut up. He did it just because
it's his son. Yeah. I think it cost him some

(06:53):
credibility because he was so at This is so typical
Joe Biden. He painted himself into a corner by saying
over and over and over and over again that And
in fact, I think it was an interview with David
Muir on ABC World News tonight in which they were sitting,
you know, in some you know room somewhere, probably in

(07:14):
the White House, and David Muir asked him specifically if
he would pardon Hunter Biden, and of course Joe Biden,
one of you know, a thousand times, said no, the
process will run its course. No one is above the law,
and I will not pardon my son. Well, that was
a lie because he probably knew, as any president does,

(07:36):
that if a family member gets caught up in something,
whether it's you know, questionable or not questionable, you'll probably
pardon them. If I were president and my son was
convicted of some federal crime, maybe maybe other than murdering
a federal police officer, you know, an FBI agent or something,

(07:57):
I probably would not pardon him. For tax evasion or
for filling out a background check form incorrectly. I'd probably
do it too. So everybody out to just kind of
sit down and shut up and forget about it, But
don't forget this. The reason he did it and the

(08:20):
extent of it, which is what I think everybody's really
upset about, is because this kind of indirectly proves kind
of what we've all believed for a long time about
how the Biden family is corrupt. Because when you issue
a pardon that goes back to December or to January

(08:41):
one of twenty fourteen, all the way through December one
of twenty twenty four you're covering crimes that have never
been Oh they may have been investigated, in fact, there
may be ongoing investigations, but crimes about corruption, laundering, influence, peddling,

(09:02):
any number of things that have never reached the point
of an indictment, let alone a trial or a conviction.
That's a blanket pardon for crimes that you may have
committed but we don't know about. And I think that's
what everybody's upset about. Well, other presidents have done that too,
and I'll give you some examples of that. But I
want to tie all of that to something that Biden

(09:26):
keeps talking about that really ought to concern us, even
though he has the power to do it. It's the weekend
with Michael Brown. You know, one of the rules engagement
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(09:48):
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(10:11):
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that one podcast. So back to these these pardons, and

(10:33):
I want to tie these pardons into what many people,
including some anonymous sources, so take up with a grain
of salt, that are saying that Biden is considering doing
some more pre emptive pardons for people like Adam Schiff,
who was you know, on the J six committee, and

(10:55):
Liz Cheney. Just just two examples of many. Uh. My
guess is he's probably considering a pardon for his brother James.
Uh maybe even for doctor Jill Biden. Who knows. But again,
we shouldn't go off the rails about that because again,
the Constitution says that the president has the authority to

(11:19):
issue pardons and commutations for crimes and offenses against the
United States, and other presidents have done that. Lincoln did
it for the Confederate soldiers. They'd not been that they
we know what they did, we know that they committed treason,
but they were never convicted. They weren't tried, they got

(11:43):
no due process. They well, they weren't even charged, but
they didn't they were never convicted. Uh, let's se Jimmy
Carter did it for draft arts, draft dodgers. Uh. Gerald
Ford did it for Richard Nixon. Now, Gerald Ford did
it probably the that's probably the best comparison to Hunter Biden,
because Gerald Ford pardoned Richard Nixon for any other crimes

(12:07):
that he may have committed, or for any crimes he
may have committed. And again specified a period of time
going back maybe a year, not ten years, but he
went back a year. And remember Nixon had not been indicted. Now,
there were there were impeachment charges that the House was considering,

(12:27):
but he had not been formally impeached because many of
the Republicans had gone to the to the White House
and said, look, mister President, if you you know, if
you don't resign, this impeachment's going to go through, it'll
pass the House and you will be convicted in a
sdate and you will remove from office. So why don't
you just why don't you just kind of skid out
of out of town now? And then Ford, trying to

(12:49):
just get all of Watergate behind us, said I'm going
to pardon Nixon, and he did. So this this is
not unprecedented, and I don't want you to be surprised
if if Joe Biden sometime maybe on the morning of
January twentieth of next year, or you know, during the

(13:11):
Christmas holiday, that he issues pardons for other people, other
people in his family and maybe other political figures or
people we don't even know about. Maybe Hunter and you know,
some of his buddies were involved in some criminal activity
and he pardons them. Joe Biden's lane duck. He's going away.

(13:32):
His legacy has already destroyed. His legacy is what we've
gone through for the past four years. So everybody just
chill out about it, except for one. I have no
basis to believe that anything may be done here. But
he might, and it may be that he might issue

(13:54):
a pardon for Michael Byrd. Does that ring a bell
for anybody? Michael Byrd the person that I will refer
to as the murderer of Ashley Babbott on January sixth,
twenty twenty one, So I want to talk about Michael
Byrd for a moment. There was a nineteen eighty five

(14:19):
case called Lewis versus United States. I doubt anybody in
this audience has ever heard of it. Even you lawyers
out there probably have not heard of Lewis v. United Well,
you may have. If you're a lawyer and you've represented
law enforcement officers like I have, then you probably do
know about this case. That case, in a nutshell, stressed

(14:43):
the need to ensure that cops that had questionable integrity
were never relied upon in criminal trials, because if you
have a cop that has, you know, credibility problems, they've
got disciplinary issues, they've had other cases where they've testified.
Turns out that they maybe they didn't falsely testify, but

(15:05):
their testimony was so questionable that it was like, don't
ever use this cop for a witness ever again in
any other case. Well over the last decade, but actually
going all the way back to nineteen eighty five, there
has been something that is known as the Lewis List.

(15:28):
It's maintained by the US Attorney's Office for the District
of Columbia, the Lewis List. The Lewis List was born
out of that nineteen eighty five case Lewis versus United States,
and over the past I would say ten years, that
list has influenced probably about twenty cases, preventing tainted testimony

(15:53):
or testimony from unreliable law enforcement officers from undermining justice
in a case. So what is this What is this list?
You might describe it as a form of internal quality control.
It's a catalog, a literal catalog of law enforcement officers

(16:17):
of leo's whose credibility has been compromised to such an
extent that their testimony could threaten the integrity of a prosecution. Now,
I know you're thinking to yourself. I hope you're thinking
to yourself what I think to myself every time I
think about this list, why are they still a cop?

(16:37):
Because depending on what they did that caused them to
end up on the Lewis List, then they ought to
be terminated. Hey, Elon and the fate the Doge, the
Doge group. If you're looking for people to fire, I'd
start with the Lewis List, because if a cop has

(16:58):
such the credibility that their name makes it onto the
Lewis List, then they probably shouldn't be caught. They probably
should not be FBI agents or any sort of federal
law enforcement officer, although the list really does encompass more
than just federal law enforcement. You could be a local cop,

(17:19):
you could be a state patrolman, state trooper, and you
could end up on the Lewis List. But the mere existence,
just the existence of the list. Think about this, Think
about the paradox a justice system that must silently track
its own compromised agents to protect the system from their

(17:43):
tainted records. I'll repeat that after the break, because that's
going to lead us to Michael Byrd. So we came
with Michael Brown. Be sure and follow me on X.
It's at Michael Brown USA. I'll be right back tonight.
Michael Brown joins me here the former FEMA director of

(18:03):
talk show host Michael Brown. Brownie, No, Brownie, You're doing
a heck of a job the Weekend with Michael Brown. Hey,
welcome back to the Weekend with Michael Brown. Glad to
have you with me. You know, if you like what
we do on the weekend, I'd really encourage you to
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(18:25):
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(18:47):
you got to listen to the weekday program too, and
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in Denver. So we talked about this Lewis list from
this nineteen eighty five case Lewis versus Us, in which
this list was born, and the list is a compilation
of law enforcement officers that should never be called to

(19:11):
testify because they have a track record that shows that
they've got disciplinary problems, they've got credibility problems, they've got
any number of problems that make them bad witnesses that
could screw up the prosecution of a very legitimate case. Now,
most people don't even know that list exists, and you

(19:31):
may be asking yourself, why do we have that list? Well,
go back and if you want to go Google or
duck go or being whatever you want to Lewis v.
United States, and you can read the case and understand
why we now have this list. So what does this
have to do with Michael Byrd and pardons? And the
fact that I believe that based on what I've seen

(19:56):
and the testimony of some of these January sixth defendants,
and the video itself of the killing of Ashley Babbitt,
that I believe that Michael Byrd, this US Capitol police officer,
shot and killed Ashley Babbitt in cold blood during those
events of January sixth of twenty twenty one. I would bet,
based on things that I've heard out of DC, that

(20:20):
Michael Byrd may actually be on that Lewis list. Now,
if that's true, that suggests that the disciplinary record of
Michael Byrd is probably a little muddied, probably a little
you know, like ooh, why are you still a cop?

(20:42):
And if that's true, that should raise alarms significant enough
for federal prosecutors to deem him too unreliable to testify
in court. And if all of those revelations are true,
that casts an alarming shadow over his use of lethal
force against an unarmed civilian at the same time that

(21:06):
he used lethal force against an unarmed civilian when there
were other law enforcement officers right behind Ashley Babbitt. Now,
let's stop. I know we've been over this a bazillion times,
but I want to go over it again. Ashley Babbitt
is caught up in a crowd in a crowded stairwell
in the United States Capital. Michael Byrd is behind two walls,

(21:34):
two walls, and the walls are have glass panes in them.
She is unarmed. There is no indication whatsoever that she
is a threat to anyone. Now, the crowd may be
a threat, but she individually is not a threat to anyone.

(21:55):
She's not brandishing a weapon. She's not carrying a crowbar,
she's not trying to break out windows. She is caught
up in a mass of people that are moving up
up this staircase, and directly behind her are other law
enforcement officers, other US Capitol police officers, so that if

(22:16):
she was a threat, all they had to do was
just tackle her and take her down, which they did
not do, which is to me proof positive that she
wasn't a threat. And Michael Bird, the shooter, is behind
one door. One imagine two walls coming together at a

(22:41):
ninety degree angle. Got that in your mind. The stairwell
that they're going up, there is a door and a
wall at a ninety degree angle. There is another wall
behind which is Michael Bird, and he reaches through the
door on that wall and shoots through the other wall

(23:03):
directly at Ashley Babbitt, behind which is standing two other
law enforcement may be actually more than that, they may
be three or four law enforcement officers behind her, putting
their lives in danger by his own actions. I think
it's a clear case a first degree murder. And if

(23:25):
you don't want to buy a first degree murder, okay,
then you know what if I were a DA then okay,
you know, I'd still go for first degree murder, but
I'd include a lesser charge of second degree murder and
maybe even manslaughter. But he needs to be held accountable.
If bird record is so concerning that his testimony is

(23:45):
inadmissible in any other case, then how come he hasn't
faced public accountability for his shooting of Ashley Babbitt on
that day. Now I know that the family of Ashley
Babbitt has a wrongful death laws suit against Michael Byrd,
and I hope and pray they succeed because that's such

(24:07):
a blatant example of excessive force. In fact, I think
it's an example of murder. But let's think about Michael
Bird's history for a moment. He probably shouldn't should not
have even been on duty that day. There are reports
that suggests that he could not pass a federal firearms

(24:27):
background check that would disqualify him from carrying a gun
in the first place, And if indeed he is on
the Lewis List, that implies that he should never be
allowed to even serve in any sort of arm capacity,
let alone be put in some sort of position of authority.
You know, when you gather all the stories you can
find about Michael Bird, it suggests that his disciplinary history

(24:52):
is just fraught with red flags. Do you remember the
story one time about a US Capitol cop leaving a
loaded gun unattended in a US Capitol bathroom? Remember that story,
Think back through your recesses of your mind. It It

(25:13):
made all the news for a while. Somebody found a
loaded gun in a bathroom in the United States Capital.
It belonged to Michael Bird. He left it unattended in
a bathroom, in a public bathroom. That's the kind of
mistake that even most rookie cops wouldn't make, but could

(25:34):
lead obviously to a huge disaster. He was also involved
in an incident where he discharged his weapon at a
van that was driving away that prompted an internal investigation
into the appropriateness of his actions. And moreover, Michael Bird
allegedly lied during the subsequent inquiry, which if you lied

(25:55):
during the inquiry, if that is true, that further in
undermines his reliability as a witness, furthering my belief that
he's probably on the Lewis list now again, if he
had been held accountable for any of the for any
or all of those transgressions. Ashley Babbitt might still be
alive today, but instead we live in a world which

(26:22):
I know this is not surprising to anyone, but it
needs to be said where in this case the law
enforcement system is opting for silence and cover up, safeguarding
one of their unqualified and dangerous members at the cost
of public trust. This is for me. Do I have

(26:43):
a bugaboo about this case? Damn right, I do, And
let me explain why. Because during my legal career, I
represented law enforcement officers, I represented law enforcement unions, I
represented individual law enforcement members of of law enforcement in
federal and state courts, and so I know what it's

(27:07):
like for a cop to be wrongly accused of malfeasance
or wrongdoing or doing something that you know incurred disciplinary
action that I believed, as did the cop violated as
civil rights. So we took his agency to federal court
and we, in fact, I won every case, every single one. Instead,

(27:34):
we're we're looking at a system here that's surrounding and
protecting one of their own, and it's destroying public trust.
Now he's a member of the US Capitol Police. But
if we've got problems with the January Sixth Committee. If
we have problems and Adam shiff and Liz Cheney are
going to get pardon for things they did during those hearings,

(27:58):
could Michael Byrd be on that list too? You see,
you go back to the Lewis list itself. Some would argue,
some primarily law enforcement officers, would argue that it's really
more than an administrative safeguard. I think most cops would

(28:20):
think that this is a glaring testament to some sort
of internal dysfunction. Now it does, it tries to prevent
unreliable cops from derailing legal proceedings. But on the other hand,
the secrecy surrounding this list actually protects not just the
compromised individuals, but it protects a system that is clinging
to its own fractured credibility. And that's what bugs me,

(28:47):
because if you're not listening closely to what I'm saying,
if you're just half assed listening, you might think that, oh,
Michael Brown's anti cop, he's anti law enforcement. No. I
think cops have one of the hardest jobs in the world,
and they need to be held to a higher standard

(29:07):
because they can not only take your freedom away, they
can take your life away. Now that they have to
be justified in doing either one of those things. But
if they have to be justified in doing either one
of those things taking your freedom or your life away,
then we ought to demand the highest of standards to
be a local estate or a federal law enforcement officer.

(29:33):
And the Lewis List protects people like Michael Bird. It's
the Weekend with Michael Brown. If you want to send
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(29:58):
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(30:20):
Brown USA. So what does the Lewis List in Michael
Byrd and Ashley Babbitt and the Pardons and Joe Biden
all have to do with one another. It all goes
to this idea about accountability and secrecy. You know, whether
or not Elon Musk and the veke Wamaswami are capable

(30:42):
of actually cutting two trillion dollars out of the federal budget,
I'd be happy if they. I'd be excaitic they got
half that amount. I'll be extatic they get any amount,
but they'll do so through transparency. Trump will be able
to help accomplish it through accountability, you see. I think

(31:04):
that the election of Trump has exposed that Americans know
in their gut that this kind of lack of accountability.
We've all seen the videotapes. We've read the stories, We've
seen the photos, the still shots. We've seen all of this,

(31:28):
and yet we're told by the cabal to believe something else.
We have the questions about you know, somebody only test
text line. What about ray Epps? Well, I've talked about
ray Apps, so I'm blue in the face. You know,
maybe ray Epps is one of those guys that ends
up getting a pardon. Who knows. I mean, sky's the limit.
I mean, there's no limitation on what Biden can do.

(31:51):
And a person who has no credibility and Biden has
no credibility that you know. One thing that credibility does
is it limits you. In order to maintain your credibility,
you've got to operate within a certain sphere of honesty
and truthfulness and transparency about whatever it is that you

(32:14):
are doing. And the lack of that erodes our ability
to function as a constitutional republic. And so while I
started out explaining and I have explained to I'm blue
in the face again about pardons and how they work,
and we can be pissed off about them, but nonetheless,

(32:36):
that's a power that the founders gave the president, and
I understand why they gave the president that power. So
even though we may not like what Biden does, either
what he's already done or what he may do between
now and January twentieth at noon, we just have to accept.
But what we don't have to accept is the lack

(32:59):
of accountability. We don't have to accept the secrecy, we
don't have to accept the double standard. And we're on
the verge. And look, I think that the election of
November five was the proverbial crack in the dam of
Americans just saying we've had enough. And I would add

(33:22):
that And let me be very clear here, I am
in no way at all justifying the assassination of the
United Healthcare CEO on the streets of Manhattan. But when
people believe that the system is so rigged against them,

(33:45):
they'll reach a breaking point. Now it doesn't justify what
they do, because there is no justification for him shooting.
That's for whoever that suspect is of shooting the CEO
in the back on the streets of Manhattan in playing daylight,
well dawn. But that doesn't mean we can't hold tooth

(34:07):
simultaneous and opposing thoughts in our heads at the same time.
It's not justified at all. But if he comes from
a family where someone a grandmother, a spouse, brother, or sister,
somebody was denied a legitimate healthcare claim, that person may

(34:28):
have reached their their boiling point and so they did
what they did. It doesn't justify it, I understand it.
And that's where society begins to fracture. And the way
you stop that fracturing is through accountability and transparency. And

(34:50):
the Lewis List is an example of where there is
no transparency. If a cop is so bad that they
cannot be used to tell justify in a criminal case,
they probably should not be a cop. And when we've
all said, when we've all watched and seen what Michael
Bird did on that day, if he were to get

(35:12):
a pardon, that is taking all of the wounds that
we have suffered from a double standard justice system and
just throwing coarse salt into those wounds and just rubbing
it in deep. It's a it's a form of torture,
it's a form of physical abuse, and it will fracture
our society and it needs to stop. And the Lewis

(35:37):
List would be a good place to stop it. And
the prosecution of Michael Bird for the murder of Ashley
Babbitt will be another good place to start. Somebody asked
if the pardoning of Michael Bird would stop the wrongful
death lawsuit, and it would not, because remember the pardons
are for criminal offenses. A wrongful death lawsuit is a

(36:00):
civil case, and there you're arguing that the person that
you're suing wrongfully caused the death of whoever you're representing
in this case, the family of Ashley Babbott. So that's
not based on a crime. For example, take OJ. Of

(36:20):
course OJ was found not guilty, but that didn't start
stop the Brown family and the others from suing OJ
Simpson for the wrongful death, and they pursued that and
got a judgment and actually started collecting money. Transparency and accountability.
I think the country needs that more than probably anything else.

(36:41):
It's the weekend with Michael Brown takes the word Mike
or Michael did three three one zero three. Hey, I'll
be right back.