June 21, 2024 • 20 mins
On this episode of Our American Stories, Richard Herzog tells how sports raised him from a heavy-handed home, constant fighting, and the complex cultural temptations of the area surrounding New Orleans.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
And we returned to our American stories. Up next, we're
going to hear from Richard Herzog, author of Hey Dirk.
Through his childhood, Richard always longed for a role model,
someone to look up to and help him navigate the
hardships he was facing him the home. But his inspiration
ended up not being a person at all, It was support.
(00:30):
Here's Richard with his story.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I grew up in a small section of Gretna, right
on the other side of the river from New Orleans,
and historically it's not much different from New Orleans per
se as the culture goes. We had one room with
a large number of people living on top of each
other in one bed. You had really at the in
the beginning, you had one bed, so maybe three or
(00:57):
four boys was sleeping in at one bed. And then
eventually we got some bump beds, so you had one
on the top, one on the bottom, and then maybe
two or three would land in a big bed, and
then my sister would land on a couch in the
living room. You were always on the go too, because
you know, you live by the rule you just stay
outside until it's time to eat, so you're you know,
you're either involved in games that you make up your
(01:21):
own little world of climbing on trains, jumping trains to
get to the ballpark as they're moving. I mean, come on,
you got to try that once, right, Swimming in the
river and you could just get up on the barges
and jump into the river.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
So that was fun.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
And it was kind of like growing up like Tom Sawyer,
and you know, we didn't lack for anything because we
didn't know what it was like to have anything. The
way I can describe growing up where I grew up,
all you needed was a pair of shorts and some
underwear and you were good to go. You know, you
didn't have to work about shoes. Well, you know, in
(02:06):
New Orleans, you're either going to a celebration or you're
going to make one up. There's never a worry. You
just go on to the next day or the next
thing and the next event. Now New Orleans is not
a part of this world as far as I'm concerned,
but for me, it affected me seeing how it affected
(02:27):
other people.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
The drug life.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I've seen people die at an early age, friends who
have lost to overdoses. You know, fighting came early and often,
and I was pretty good at it, so you know,
it's a hard environment to get out of. I mean,
they're entrenched, but it has that kind of spell on you.
(02:50):
So at home it's an abusive situation. You know, I'd
had my share of abuse. I'd seen more than my
fair share of abuse. My mother suffered severely with depression.
She's trying to raise six children in a small house.
My dad was a blue collar worker, and their marriage
(03:13):
was one big ball of conflict. I would scratch my
head every day thinking how did they get married?
Speaker 3 (03:19):
So I watched a lot of wars.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
You know, then you got to in this small space,
you got to witness alcohol. But you were also living
under these guidelines or this you know, paint by color orders.
This is what you do. This is how you do it.
You don't ask questions, get moving boom. So your curiosity
(03:43):
was shot. So life's in motion, all these things that
are happening inside the home gets self and somewhat by sports.
It was the one thing I was really good at
that I could enjoy. I didn't you know, I was
lands away when I was playing ball. You know, you
(04:06):
can get on a ball field and fresh grass and
sweaty uniforms and basically knocking to snot out each other.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
If you're in football.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
And enjoying it and not get arrested for it, thrown
into tention or whatever.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
He was like, Man, I can do this.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
My mother's cousin was Melot, and I knew I had
some athletic influences in me. You know, I would watch
some things on TV. I'd see athletes play, and I'd
go out and try to replicate it, and I'd keep
working at it until I got pretty good and loved it,
(04:42):
just absolutely loved it. Loved competing. You know, I was
determined I being the best on the field all the time.
I played ball at school, so you know, growing up,
had success at sports, had a lot of trophies. Trophies
were put on the mantelpiece in a very interesting environment.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
You know.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
I had a shotgun and a record play and a
crucifix arounded by it. So heavy hand at home was
coming down on me pretty good, and I'd run scared
from everything i'd just witness and then I'd run trying
to get back into the football game because that's where
the comfort was. And I never got to have in
(05:24):
a relationship with someone to kind of self in the
blows or maybe give me some sage advice or just
point me along the way. So I think from that
part of my childhood going in right before I hit
high school, I was wanting something to kind of say that,
you know, Richard, you are a decent human being, or
(05:47):
you are this, you are that, and kind of build
up my self esteem a little bit instead of always
being held under thumb, and just generally just to feel
like be in love. So I was a pretty pretty
confused child. I had a lot of talent from my
shoulders on down at that point, but I did not
(06:10):
have a whole lot of confidence between my ears.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Richard went to an all boys Catholic school. One day,
a boy in his class decided to play a prank
on the teacher, and when he invited Richard to take
part in it, he declined.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
So eventually the guys caught and I wanted to check
to see how the teacher was doing. I was being sincere.
I purposely missed the bus day after school and went
and visited in a classroom. She was there grading papers,
(06:46):
and I knocked on a door and we started a conversation,
and that's where really the relationship began, you know, She
was heavily influential on me because she was a mother
figure to a degree. She was my teacher. She was
the first homecoming queen at the University of New Orleans.
(07:09):
She was absolutely gorgeous. Now she had it all, and
the way she interacted with me and the conversations we had,
I felt like, for the first time I was learning
and actually talking to someone who gave me the time
and the attention and felt sincere about it. So your
(07:31):
mind goes to these places because you're hoping and thinking
and wishing that this lady's going to set you straight
and help you out.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
You know.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
After Richard talked with his teacher for a while, she
offered to give him a ride home from school.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
We walked to the parking lot and there is a
burnt orange nineteen seventy two montigo and I thought, oh, gosh,
teachers must get paid a lot of money. Yeah, And
I got in and it was, you know, this brand
new smell. And the ride home was unlike anything I'd
(08:08):
experienced in my life. It was calm, it was musical,
it was fun and funny. It was wit being shared,
it was laughter, and it stuck with me.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
But the drive home you know.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
That day was the first and then she just asked
me if I need a ride home. So I stopped
riding the bus and started riding with her.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
And we're listening to Richard Herzag, author of pay Dirt,
share his story with us growing up in New Orleans,
small house, one bed, then bunk beds, always on the go,
As he said, we stayed outside until it was time
to eat. Kind of like growing up like Tom Sawyer,
he described, but not so much for the home life.
The celebrations of New Orleans well, lots of drugs, lots
(08:57):
of alcohol, and lots of abuse in the family. My parents'
marriage was one big ball of conflict. I was lands away, however,
when I played sports, and then that teacher of his
who just taught him about a different world in that
car ride home, some peace, some laughter, and some encouragement
and love. When we come back, more of Richard Herzog's
(09:19):
story here on our American Stories. And we're back with
(09:40):
our American Stories and with Richard Herzog. When we last
left off, he'd begun to form what he thought was
an innocent relationship with his teacher, hoping she would be
a mentor for him. Let's return to Richard.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
It was the last day of school and she had
driven me home, and well, I thought, it's been good.
But I've got all this tightness in me, like I'm
a loser. I'm not going to get to talk to
her anymore.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
You know.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
I was romanticizing, but I got to accept the reality
of it. No matter what I'm thinking, I have to
accept the reality.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
She's married, and I just have to go on.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Over the summer, Richard had a job working at a
local family owned restaurant called Purdues.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
I think that helped me move on a little bit.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
You got the things you love, You've got sports, you've
got your job, and so I.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Learned how to keep busy in that moment.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
And We're at work one night and Miss Burdue and
stephone and I'm just standing nearby, and she says, Richard,
you have a telephone call.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
And I'm thinking, who's calling me at work? And it
was her.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
She said, I've been thinking, and I like talking to
you and like being with you, and I want to
see you again. Let's get together, and away we went.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
It was then that Richard's teacher told him if he
gave up his sports, which practiced every Saturday, they could
instead spend that time together.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
By then, I was heavily influenced. Now she's my drug
of choice basically, so you know, whatever she said I
listened to and it was like, yeah, okay, she wants
to see me, and I'm going to give up sports
to do this. So yeah, by then pretty much far gone.
I didn't tell anyone until it started to get physical,
(11:46):
but no one knew what to do about it.
Speaker 4 (11:51):
After several months of spending time together in forming this
inappropriate relationship, Richard's teacher asked him if he would come
for a ride with her.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
She was quieter than she.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Normally was, and then just basically just tells me, we
can't go on like this anymore, and we can't do
this anymore. I think by this moment in time, people
are talking and there's still no answers as to exactly
what happened other than that she said she got scared
(12:25):
and ran.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
So that's where it was left. Basically.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
I mean, it was like right then and there, so
there was so much to deal with. I couldn't tell
my parents, I couldn't tell the administration. Certainly wasn't going
to go to a priest, and that was the hard part.
There's just no help. It was just shutting the door.
I had nowhere to go. I had no one to
talk to. I didn't think anybody would believe me, and
(12:50):
so I would see her on a daily basis, and
I'm a zombie. I am in a total inexplicable fog.
And so that's how I'm living every day. Two years
of high school have gone through. That was excruciating, to
say the least. But I was also determined that I
(13:11):
was going to get through it. I wasn't gonna let
her kill me. By the time I got out of
high school, you know, I had these jobs that were
just crazy. They were going nowhere fast. I could accept
things as they were, you know, live where I was living,
drink beer, get up and do it again, and think
life was good.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
You know. I could have settled for that.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
But and I got to thinking that, you know what,
I've wasted all my talent, that this is not what
I'm supposed to be. I just was not fulfilling my
potential I think God had given me.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
At this point, Richard started going to football games at
the high school he'd attended to watch his friend John,
who was the quarterback.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
I would sit in the stands and I would be
filled with so much anger and resentment, and not towards
John of the team or anything I was pulling for them,
but the resentment of that could have been me. So
I would walk out of the stadium during these games,
being probably the meanest, maddest person, and everybody else is celebrating,
(14:21):
and I'm like, you know, just get away from me,
because I'm ready to fight. So that was me standing
in the fire. I went and I faced that, and
I knew it would be hard, but that drove me.
I got to do something. If I can't be a ballplayer,
then I'm going to coach. And I decided to turn
(14:44):
the page.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Then and there.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Richard's friend John was being recruited by ole Miss to
play football, and he told Richard he should go there
too for college.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
I never heard of ole Miss except for Archie Manning.
I didn't know who Old Miss was, but I knew
who Archie Manning was. Well, does John's getting recruited. I'm
living right next door to him, so all these recruiters
are coming in his house. And when he decides that
he wants to sign with ole Miss, Archie shows up
at the house, and of course I'm over there and
I'm meeting Archie Manning and Steve Sloan, and so I got.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
To think, and yeah, man, I really like to go
up there.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
I came up before I actually you know, enrolled in
school and saw it and I.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Was like, yeah, I like this place.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
And getting seven eight hours away was kind of a
cure for me. You know, I could separate myself at
that point and there was something about it that grabbed
my soul. But I also know that I'm here to
focus and I want to get my degree and I
want to coach. So I got on that track of
(15:52):
that's what's happening. And I mean God must have been
looking at me something, because I ended up running the
athletic dorm here. I was in charge of four hundred athletes,
and you know, then I'm getting to travel with the
team and I'm at some of the practices and it's
like wow. But you know, in all this, the darkness
(16:18):
is still there, the problem, the issue is still there.
By the law and by definition, you know, it was
statutory rape, which I had no idea what that was
at the time because I did not know the difference
between improper and improper relationship in my mind was like, well, true,
(16:38):
this is how relationships are, whether you're married or not.
You know that you can't really commit to something, and
that's what I learned at an early age. So I
was in therapy and knowing something was wrong. It was
just like a miracle, you know. The lady said, I'm
gonna send you to this counselor who can give you
(17:00):
this test, and I think she can help you. So
I take the tests and I scored high and that's
not a good thing, but it does give you answers.
And the answers for me were to get into the
twelve Step program, and I felt like it was the
first time I had been in church in a long
long time. But there's so much empathy and spiritual togetherness
(17:24):
that you're all rowing in the same boat, gone in
the same direction, you know, and you just really want
to get well. I quit drinking, I started lifting weights,
started running, doing all these things getting healthier.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
After going through twelve Steps and working with Ole Miss Athletics,
Richard then went on to become head football coach at
another school in Tennessee and led the team to four
state championships.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
So one accomplishment is building on top of the other,
which that in itself was to therapy if there is
such a.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
Thing for me.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
And then as you accomplished something, I gain more confidence.
And that's when I started to think, Okay, I got
some confidence here. It's time for me to be more
proactive than I've been. And I thought that forgiving was
important because it all boils down to she was an
(18:23):
adult and what she did was abuse and cause a
lifetime of grief, and I wanted to forgive her. I
wanted to forgive myself. Forgiving her was extremely difficult because
you're always caught between forgiving and forgetting, and then the
ugly part of me would you know, the anger would
(18:45):
rise again and I cannot really forgive her. You know,
you said you did, but can you really do this?
And that was always very difficult. But I felt like
I could confront all of it, have some clarity, and
you know, I was like, there's got to be a
voice for people who have had the experience I had.
(19:08):
This happens to males two, believe it or not, and
I want them to know that if they have this
and they're going through what I went through. They don't
have to take their life. They can win. And you know,
I think the best thing that you can do is forgive.
So in the end I beat it.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
And a terrific job by Madison derrek Ott on the production,
and a special thanks to Richard Herzog, author of pay
Dirt and how he overcame the sexual abuse, and let's
face it that with sexual abuse and men face it too,
from women and from men, that's as important telling those
and sharing those stories as when women do. And my goodness,
getting to Ole, miss and we broadcast right here in Oxford, Mississippi,
(19:54):
getting seven and eight hours away from what happened to him.
But in the end he still had to face the dark,
and the way to do it was forgiveness. We have
found that again and again that when the victim forgives,
the victimizer life begin. The story of Richard Herzog a
terrific overcoming story here on our American Stories
And we returned to our American stories. Up next, we're
going to hear from Richard Herzog, author of Hey Dirk.
Through his childhood, Richard always longed for a role model,
someone to look up to and help him navigate the
hardships he was facing him the home. But his inspiration
ended up not being a person at all, It was support.
(00:30):
Here's Richard with his story.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I grew up in a small section of Gretna, right
on the other side of the river from New Orleans,
and historically it's not much different from New Orleans per
se as the culture goes. We had one room with
a large number of people living on top of each
other in one bed. You had really at the in
the beginning, you had one bed, so maybe three or
(00:57):
four boys was sleeping in at one bed. And then
eventually we got some bump beds, so you had one
on the top, one on the bottom, and then maybe
two or three would land in a big bed, and
then my sister would land on a couch in the
living room. You were always on the go too, because
you know, you live by the rule you just stay
outside until it's time to eat, so you're you know,
you're either involved in games that you make up your
(01:21):
own little world of climbing on trains, jumping trains to
get to the ballpark as they're moving. I mean, come on,
you got to try that once, right, Swimming in the
river and you could just get up on the barges
and jump into the river.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
So that was fun.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
And it was kind of like growing up like Tom Sawyer,
and you know, we didn't lack for anything because we
didn't know what it was like to have anything. The
way I can describe growing up where I grew up,
all you needed was a pair of shorts and some
underwear and you were good to go. You know, you
didn't have to work about shoes. Well, you know, in
(02:06):
New Orleans, you're either going to a celebration or you're
going to make one up. There's never a worry. You
just go on to the next day or the next
thing and the next event. Now New Orleans is not
a part of this world as far as I'm concerned,
but for me, it affected me seeing how it affected
(02:27):
other people.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
The drug life.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I've seen people die at an early age, friends who
have lost to overdoses. You know, fighting came early and often,
and I was pretty good at it, so you know,
it's a hard environment to get out of. I mean,
they're entrenched, but it has that kind of spell on you.
(02:50):
So at home it's an abusive situation. You know, I'd
had my share of abuse. I'd seen more than my
fair share of abuse. My mother suffered severely with depression.
She's trying to raise six children in a small house.
My dad was a blue collar worker, and their marriage
(03:13):
was one big ball of conflict. I would scratch my
head every day thinking how did they get married?
Speaker 3 (03:19):
So I watched a lot of wars.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
You know, then you got to in this small space,
you got to witness alcohol. But you were also living
under these guidelines or this you know, paint by color orders.
This is what you do. This is how you do it.
You don't ask questions, get moving boom. So your curiosity
(03:43):
was shot. So life's in motion, all these things that
are happening inside the home gets self and somewhat by sports.
It was the one thing I was really good at
that I could enjoy. I didn't you know, I was
lands away when I was playing ball. You know, you
(04:06):
can get on a ball field and fresh grass and
sweaty uniforms and basically knocking to snot out each other.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
If you're in football.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
And enjoying it and not get arrested for it, thrown
into tention or whatever.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
He was like, Man, I can do this.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
My mother's cousin was Melot, and I knew I had
some athletic influences in me. You know, I would watch
some things on TV. I'd see athletes play, and I'd
go out and try to replicate it, and I'd keep
working at it until I got pretty good and loved it,
(04:42):
just absolutely loved it. Loved competing. You know, I was
determined I being the best on the field all the time.
I played ball at school, so you know, growing up,
had success at sports, had a lot of trophies. Trophies
were put on the mantelpiece in a very interesting environment.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
You know.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
I had a shotgun and a record play and a
crucifix arounded by it. So heavy hand at home was
coming down on me pretty good, and I'd run scared
from everything i'd just witness and then I'd run trying
to get back into the football game because that's where
the comfort was. And I never got to have in
(05:24):
a relationship with someone to kind of self in the
blows or maybe give me some sage advice or just
point me along the way. So I think from that
part of my childhood going in right before I hit
high school, I was wanting something to kind of say that,
you know, Richard, you are a decent human being, or
(05:47):
you are this, you are that, and kind of build
up my self esteem a little bit instead of always
being held under thumb, and just generally just to feel
like be in love. So I was a pretty pretty
confused child. I had a lot of talent from my
shoulders on down at that point, but I did not
(06:10):
have a whole lot of confidence between my ears.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Richard went to an all boys Catholic school. One day,
a boy in his class decided to play a prank
on the teacher, and when he invited Richard to take
part in it, he declined.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
So eventually the guys caught and I wanted to check
to see how the teacher was doing. I was being sincere.
I purposely missed the bus day after school and went
and visited in a classroom. She was there grading papers,
(06:46):
and I knocked on a door and we started a conversation,
and that's where really the relationship began, you know, She
was heavily influential on me because she was a mother
figure to a degree. She was my teacher. She was
the first homecoming queen at the University of New Orleans.
(07:09):
She was absolutely gorgeous. Now she had it all, and
the way she interacted with me and the conversations we had,
I felt like, for the first time I was learning
and actually talking to someone who gave me the time
and the attention and felt sincere about it. So your
(07:31):
mind goes to these places because you're hoping and thinking
and wishing that this lady's going to set you straight
and help you out.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
You know.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
After Richard talked with his teacher for a while, she
offered to give him a ride home from school.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
We walked to the parking lot and there is a
burnt orange nineteen seventy two montigo and I thought, oh, gosh,
teachers must get paid a lot of money. Yeah, And
I got in and it was, you know, this brand
new smell. And the ride home was unlike anything I'd
(08:08):
experienced in my life. It was calm, it was musical,
it was fun and funny. It was wit being shared,
it was laughter, and it stuck with me.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
But the drive home you know.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
That day was the first and then she just asked
me if I need a ride home. So I stopped
riding the bus and started riding with her.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
And we're listening to Richard Herzag, author of pay Dirt,
share his story with us growing up in New Orleans,
small house, one bed, then bunk beds, always on the go,
As he said, we stayed outside until it was time
to eat. Kind of like growing up like Tom Sawyer,
he described, but not so much for the home life.
The celebrations of New Orleans well, lots of drugs, lots
(08:57):
of alcohol, and lots of abuse in the family. My parents'
marriage was one big ball of conflict. I was lands away, however,
when I played sports, and then that teacher of his
who just taught him about a different world in that
car ride home, some peace, some laughter, and some encouragement
and love. When we come back, more of Richard Herzog's
(09:19):
story here on our American Stories. And we're back with
(09:40):
our American Stories and with Richard Herzog. When we last
left off, he'd begun to form what he thought was
an innocent relationship with his teacher, hoping she would be
a mentor for him. Let's return to Richard.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
It was the last day of school and she had
driven me home, and well, I thought, it's been good.
But I've got all this tightness in me, like I'm
a loser. I'm not going to get to talk to
her anymore.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
You know.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
I was romanticizing, but I got to accept the reality
of it. No matter what I'm thinking, I have to
accept the reality.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
She's married, and I just have to go on.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Over the summer, Richard had a job working at a
local family owned restaurant called Purdues.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
I think that helped me move on a little bit.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
You got the things you love, You've got sports, you've
got your job, and so I.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Learned how to keep busy in that moment.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
And We're at work one night and Miss Burdue and
stephone and I'm just standing nearby, and she says, Richard,
you have a telephone call.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
And I'm thinking, who's calling me at work? And it
was her.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
She said, I've been thinking, and I like talking to
you and like being with you, and I want to
see you again. Let's get together, and away we went.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
It was then that Richard's teacher told him if he
gave up his sports, which practiced every Saturday, they could
instead spend that time together.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
By then, I was heavily influenced. Now she's my drug
of choice basically, so you know, whatever she said I
listened to and it was like, yeah, okay, she wants
to see me, and I'm going to give up sports
to do this. So yeah, by then pretty much far gone.
I didn't tell anyone until it started to get physical,
(11:46):
but no one knew what to do about it.
Speaker 4 (11:51):
After several months of spending time together in forming this
inappropriate relationship, Richard's teacher asked him if he would come
for a ride with her.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
She was quieter than she.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Normally was, and then just basically just tells me, we
can't go on like this anymore, and we can't do
this anymore. I think by this moment in time, people
are talking and there's still no answers as to exactly
what happened other than that she said she got scared
(12:25):
and ran.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
So that's where it was left. Basically.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
I mean, it was like right then and there, so
there was so much to deal with. I couldn't tell
my parents, I couldn't tell the administration. Certainly wasn't going
to go to a priest, and that was the hard part.
There's just no help. It was just shutting the door.
I had nowhere to go. I had no one to
talk to. I didn't think anybody would believe me, and
(12:50):
so I would see her on a daily basis, and
I'm a zombie. I am in a total inexplicable fog.
And so that's how I'm living every day. Two years
of high school have gone through. That was excruciating, to
say the least. But I was also determined that I
(13:11):
was going to get through it. I wasn't gonna let
her kill me. By the time I got out of
high school, you know, I had these jobs that were
just crazy. They were going nowhere fast. I could accept
things as they were, you know, live where I was living,
drink beer, get up and do it again, and think
life was good.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
You know. I could have settled for that.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
But and I got to thinking that, you know what,
I've wasted all my talent, that this is not what
I'm supposed to be. I just was not fulfilling my
potential I think God had given me.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
At this point, Richard started going to football games at
the high school he'd attended to watch his friend John,
who was the quarterback.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
I would sit in the stands and I would be
filled with so much anger and resentment, and not towards
John of the team or anything I was pulling for them,
but the resentment of that could have been me. So
I would walk out of the stadium during these games,
being probably the meanest, maddest person, and everybody else is celebrating,
(14:21):
and I'm like, you know, just get away from me,
because I'm ready to fight. So that was me standing
in the fire. I went and I faced that, and
I knew it would be hard, but that drove me.
I got to do something. If I can't be a ballplayer,
then I'm going to coach. And I decided to turn
(14:44):
the page.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Then and there.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Richard's friend John was being recruited by ole Miss to
play football, and he told Richard he should go there
too for college.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
I never heard of ole Miss except for Archie Manning.
I didn't know who Old Miss was, but I knew
who Archie Manning was. Well, does John's getting recruited. I'm
living right next door to him, so all these recruiters
are coming in his house. And when he decides that
he wants to sign with ole Miss, Archie shows up
at the house, and of course I'm over there and
I'm meeting Archie Manning and Steve Sloan, and so I got.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
To think, and yeah, man, I really like to go
up there.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
I came up before I actually you know, enrolled in
school and saw it and I.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Was like, yeah, I like this place.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
And getting seven eight hours away was kind of a
cure for me. You know, I could separate myself at
that point and there was something about it that grabbed
my soul. But I also know that I'm here to
focus and I want to get my degree and I
want to coach. So I got on that track of
(15:52):
that's what's happening. And I mean God must have been
looking at me something, because I ended up running the
athletic dorm here. I was in charge of four hundred athletes,
and you know, then I'm getting to travel with the
team and I'm at some of the practices and it's
like wow. But you know, in all this, the darkness
(16:18):
is still there, the problem, the issue is still there.
By the law and by definition, you know, it was
statutory rape, which I had no idea what that was
at the time because I did not know the difference
between improper and improper relationship in my mind was like, well, true,
(16:38):
this is how relationships are, whether you're married or not.
You know that you can't really commit to something, and
that's what I learned at an early age. So I
was in therapy and knowing something was wrong. It was
just like a miracle, you know. The lady said, I'm
gonna send you to this counselor who can give you
(17:00):
this test, and I think she can help you. So
I take the tests and I scored high and that's
not a good thing, but it does give you answers.
And the answers for me were to get into the
twelve Step program, and I felt like it was the
first time I had been in church in a long
long time. But there's so much empathy and spiritual togetherness
(17:24):
that you're all rowing in the same boat, gone in
the same direction, you know, and you just really want
to get well. I quit drinking, I started lifting weights,
started running, doing all these things getting healthier.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
After going through twelve Steps and working with Ole Miss Athletics,
Richard then went on to become head football coach at
another school in Tennessee and led the team to four
state championships.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
So one accomplishment is building on top of the other,
which that in itself was to therapy if there is
such a.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
Thing for me.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
And then as you accomplished something, I gain more confidence.
And that's when I started to think, Okay, I got
some confidence here. It's time for me to be more
proactive than I've been. And I thought that forgiving was
important because it all boils down to she was an
(18:23):
adult and what she did was abuse and cause a
lifetime of grief, and I wanted to forgive her. I
wanted to forgive myself. Forgiving her was extremely difficult because
you're always caught between forgiving and forgetting, and then the
ugly part of me would you know, the anger would
(18:45):
rise again and I cannot really forgive her. You know,
you said you did, but can you really do this?
And that was always very difficult. But I felt like
I could confront all of it, have some clarity, and
you know, I was like, there's got to be a
voice for people who have had the experience I had.
(19:08):
This happens to males two, believe it or not, and
I want them to know that if they have this
and they're going through what I went through. They don't
have to take their life. They can win. And you know,
I think the best thing that you can do is forgive.
So in the end I beat it.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
And a terrific job by Madison derrek Ott on the production,
and a special thanks to Richard Herzog, author of pay
Dirt and how he overcame the sexual abuse, and let's
face it that with sexual abuse and men face it too,
from women and from men, that's as important telling those
and sharing those stories as when women do. And my goodness,
getting to Ole, miss and we broadcast right here in Oxford, Mississippi,
(19:54):
getting seven and eight hours away from what happened to him.
But in the end he still had to face the dark,
and the way to do it was forgiveness. We have
found that again and again that when the victim forgives,
the victimizer life begin. The story of Richard Herzog a
terrific overcoming story here on our American Stories
Host
Lee Habeeb
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