July 8, 2024 • 30 mins
"Addressing the continuing and horrifying issue of domestic violence; why woman stay; the impact on children and a series of podcasts that provide understanding and resources for and about victims." https://randishouseofangels.org/
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(00:00):
Hi, I'm Sylvia Moss, andthis is Insight, a presentation of iHeartMedia
where we really do care about ourlocal communities and all our listeners who live
here. And because I care somuch, I decided to do a two
part program about a serious issue thatcan happen to anyone. I said,
anyone, regardless of race, age, sexual orientation, religion, sex,
(00:23):
or even gender identity. Affects peopleof all socioeconomic backgrounds and education levels,
and it occurs in both opposite sexand same sex relationships. Domestic violence is
defined as a pattern of abusive behaviorin any relationship that's used by one partner
to gain or maintain power and controlover another person. Domestic violence can be
(00:47):
physical, sexual, emotional, economic, or psychological. These are behaviors you
need to pay attention to the peoplewho will abmit violence against you. Usually
in intimidate, you, manipulate,humiliate, isolate, frighten, terrorize,
They coerce you, they threaten you, they blame you, hurt you physically,
(01:08):
emotionally and mentally, and they canalso wound someone and without serious intervention,
domestic violence can often lead to aterrible tragedy. Domestic violence not only
affects those who are abused, butalso had a real effect on family members,
friends, coworkers, and especially kids. And we're going to talk about
that too. That's especially important tome. Research shows that when kids are
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witnessed to violence in their homes,it predisposes them to various social and physical
problems. While teaching them it's okay, it's a normal way of life,
it also increases their chances of becomingthe next generation of abusers and victims.
And to those who have never beena victim of domestic violent I wanted to
say this to you. There isno way that you can ever understand how
(01:57):
dehumanizing and overpowering it is to constantlybe mentally, emotionally and physically abused.
And those who ask victims of abuse, why don't you just leave? Well,
that is the worst thing that youcan say to someone who feels trapped
and hopeless. Over the next coupleof weeks, you're going to learn about
the dynamics of domestic abuse, whyit doesn't always look the way you expect
(02:21):
it to be, and the terribleimpact, as I said, that it
has on children. And if you'rea regular listener to the show, you
know that I just don't try tooffer insight into any issue. I also
make every effort to present you withthe best experts who can provide you with
the possible direction and valuable resources.That's what we're going to do today.
And with that being said, Ican tell you I am very grateful to
(02:42):
these ladies who have come in today. Nancy Chauves. She is the founder
and executive director of Randy's House ofAngels. Sherri Peters, nationally recognized the
facilitator in the children's mental health fields, and doctor Ellen Smith, retired family
doctor and mental health facilitators. Ladies, where do I start? I'm just
this is the worst thing anybody cando. Nancy. I'm going to start
(03:06):
with you, dear. I don'tknow how you've been able to put one
foot in front of another. You'rea victim of domestic violence. Ten or
twenty years ago. Your beautiful daughter, Randy was murdered by her husband,
and that's why you started Randy's Houseof Angels. Well, let me start
with this. While you were goingthrough domestic violence, tell me how the
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person I would assume, where's yourhusband? What he did to you?
What kind of things like I mentionedsome of the things coercing you, abusing
you. First of all, thankyou for inviting here today. Let it's
my pleasure. My ex husband wasthe typical abuser. He knew when to
abuse me, and from the verybeginning when he took me away from my
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home. I mean, I admitto everyone I was young. I was
only nineteen and I ran away andmarried this man that I really didn't know.
I had met him about seven monthsbefore and just fell in love.
So I say, the minute thathe met me, he knew how to
manipulate me by bringing me in whenthey call the honeymoon period. By you
(04:15):
know, I was his princess.I want to marry you. You know,
I want to be the best providerto you. And this is the
things that triggered in my mind,because wait a minute, I grew up
with my mom and my dad.My dad in when I was growing up,
my mother was a home keeper andalso my father was the bread winner.
And so that showed the respect formy culture and what was happening in
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my home. And so I left. But that was the key. The
minute he took me away from myfamily and we moved outside the state,
he could have more control over me. He knew exactly what he was doing,
and he also knew that as badas it was for me to leave
my home, he started immediately withthe abuse of the rules. I thought
(05:03):
that was very interesting, where heset me down in our apartment and told
me these are the rules and basicallysaying, I'm going to do what I've
always been doing. I'm a sailor, and I can, you know,
come off the ship and go withmy friends to what they call the bowling
Alley, which was basically a placeto have drinks and fun. But I
(05:24):
was to be there and ready whenhe came home. But he knew right
from the very beginning how he controlledme, and I was so naive.
I really wasn't sure hop out whatI was getting myself into. I immediately
went from you know, being awife and then taking care of the person
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that I loved and thought loved meand doing everything possible to keep him happy.
So I would say that the firstthing he did to me was to
slap me across the face because Isaid some than in front of his friends,
which was an embarrassment to him.And also I think it was the
way for him to set the stageto his friends, that he was in
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control of me. So it wasjust making sure that I kept that very
minimal presence, you know, withhim and his and his friends. Was
it any worse when Randy came along? Where Randy was born a year after
I was married, and I reallythought that, you know, having a
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tryal and being pregnant would really changehim and he would see that, you
know, the abuse. It's notnecessary to hurt me physically and mentally.
But even when I was pregnant,he abused me really bad. I mean,
I thought I had lost Randy.And the whole episode itself was that,
you know, he never revealed Henever took me to the hospital of
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the abuse that I went through.He never took me, like I said,
to hospital to see if I wasbaby okay, because that was the
secret. He would get in alot of trouble. And so that's how
we lived our life. Why don'tyou tell your family go back home.
My family was here in Pennsylvania.I was in Virginia. Keep in mind,
I ran away got married to thisman that had asked my parents to
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marry me. When he got outof the navy. It would it would
have been a year and a halflater, but I was stubborn and right.
And that's why I'm saying to allthe young people, you think that
a person when you meet them whenyou're seventeen, eighteen, nineteen years old,
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you're so young, you're so naive. The world is out there waiting
for you to explore. But whenyou have someone that comes into your life
and just sweeps you over and saysthat you know they love you forever,
your everything to them, and thenyou know, before you know, you
have a child like I did,and that doesn't stop. That did not
stop the abuse. And to thoseyoung girls out there who marry somebody for
(08:07):
that reason or any other reason,and then you start to see these things
or have these behaviors, let metell you right now, you cannot love
them enough to change them. Youcannot change this person, right, true,
Sylvia. I mean I always sayI loved my ex husband, but
when I was with him, right, I took all of his I'm sorry,
(08:31):
I won't do it again. Ibelieved in him, but he did
provide, you know, sure,my daughter and I with a nice home,
you know, and we did havethings, but that did not take
up all the abuse that he thatI endured, and so that word love.
(08:52):
It took me years later to reallyunderstand that love is just throwing that
is just thrown around and love.A person that abuses you does not love
you. That's not love. Thatdoes not love. So it took me
many years to realize that I wasn'treally experiencing love like I did later in
life. Well to those people,as I said, this has been said
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over and over and over again topeople, is why don't you just leave?
What would you say to somebody likethat today? You didn't walk in
my shoes? I mean, yes, did I have several safety plans?
And that those terms safety plans Ididn't hear till later in my life.
In my mind, what can Ido to leave him and also have my
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daughter? Because the threats were alwaysthere. If you ever leave me,
he'll take my daughter Randy from me. If you ever leave me, I'll
come after you and kill you.You will never go on your own,
You'll never survive. Look at you, You're fat, you're ugly, No
one wants you. So he justkept that emotional abuse up to make me
(09:58):
believe that I I couldn't go outon my own. It took several times
for me to leave, and Ifinally did that when I was twenty five
years old, and I had tomake a better life for my daughter.
And that's what I've had this conversationwith a lot of the women who have
been abused, and the majority ofthem have been like you, Nancy,
(10:18):
You're you're on the Governor's Commission forWomen. You've been very successful. A
lot of these women are really highlyeducated and they are accomplished, and they
tell me that. People say,well, what's the matter with you?
You're so smart? How do youlet yourself get into something like that?
But they've been brainwashed. That canhappen to anybody, right, I mean
(10:41):
I really took till death do youpart? Yes, got married very serious,
and I also knew that I wouldnever break up the family because my
daughter that's her father or her mother. And that was really tough for me.
That was dilemma I was going through, although it was continued to be
abused, and I was confused.I'll be honest, I was so confused.
(11:03):
What's worse living with someone that's abusingme or actually being able to go
on my own and trying to survive. So that's the odd tell I can
just share with you this the mentalpart of an abuser, what he does
to you to make you believe thatyou never survive on your own. And
why didn't you leave? People haveasked me that over and over again.
(11:26):
You just cannot pick up and alot of victims out there, well,
if they're honest, they'll tell youhaving financial support plays a big role.
How would I actually feed my daughter? Yeah? Where would I go to
live? I mean I wasn't allowedto work. So when I was actually
I forced him to make a decision. Later, when my daughter was like
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five years old, I went towork, but I did not know what
I wanted to do. I didn'thave a career profession, and so that
all played together. Why did IWhy didn't I leave? Is because this
what happened to me and I livedthrough it. That's exactly right. What
do you think victims of domestic violencehid it from They hide you to work,
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they hided they don't kill their families. Why is that it's the best
kept secret? I mean when Iwas being abused and I had bruises all
over my body, especially in myface and my arms, I was really
good at makeup and wearing long sleeves. I would never ever tell anyone that
I was being abused. I mean, I didn't learn about domestic bonus those
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words till later in life to realizeI was a victim of domestic violence.
I was just in survival mode.But I will tell you that that SECRETCYE
is what kept my abuser continuing theabuse exactly. And so even my daughter,
as she was very young, shenever revealed that Mommy, you know,
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hurting because Dad he hurt her orDaddy, she never went up against
it because she was afraid too asa child, sure, you know,
with threats and just that fear.But more importantly, I lived my life
with that best kept secret, andthat secret basically was what he wanted.
I never told anyone that was avictim, and victims today don't want to
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be labeled victims, so that's theother secret. But no, the secrecery
that goes on with the victim stayswith them until they're ready to talk about
it. And it was later inyears, I was in my thirties that
I realized I'm a victim of domesticviolence. So that's what I do today.
I'm an advocate. I talk aboutit and I share and I listened
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to other individuals that want Twenty yearsago, this year Randy was murdered by
her husband. Was all of thenews. I hate to ask you to
talk about that, but at thatpoint, like I said, I don't
know how you put one foot infront of the other one. You have
a child that has a way,but you started Randy's House of Angels.
Talk to me about some of thethings, what your focus was, and
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how you offer your services to children. I'll just take one step back.
When I got through understanding me beinga victim, my life was going well.
My profession was going so well instate government, and you know,
I'm very grateful for that. Andthen my daughter was doing so well.
She went to college, and thenyou know, I was. We were
(14:26):
always very careful of who I was, who she got involved with, but
she didn't date a whole lot.But she fell in love with this man
that she met at the Army depotwhen she was working during the summers during
college and met Brian Tremble, andthey fell in love. She really really
loved him, and she never realizedhow narcssistic and diabolical that he was.
(14:52):
I always remember, when you lookback on things now you can see so
clearly. But I never knew thathe was planning for seven months to kill
my daughter, That he was unhappy, you know, just everything about him,
and in his mind, killing Randywas better than getting a divorce.
(15:13):
That's what he believes. I don'tthink like a murderer. All I know
is I'm repeating what it was writtenin letters to me. It's unfortunate that
my daughter had no clue at all, And certainly I'm not afraid to say
this. I know my daughter lovedhim to the minute she died because she
had never imagined that he would dothat to her. No, not at
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all. Did he have domestic violencein his family? Now that I look
back, I know that his parents, you know, at times it was
difficult for them, and then hisparents split up a year before Randy and
Brian got married year two thousand.So again all this comes to light after
the fact. But for Brian andRandy, get that question. Was her
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domestic violence in their marriage? Theygot married in year two thousand. She
was murdered in two thousand and three, and I was in denial. I
was so in denial. No,there was no domestic violence, because I
know my daughter, My daughter andI there was unconditional love. She would
not stay with someone, and withthere's domestic violence where she grew up with
her father. But she didn't shedidn't know, she didn't know. No,
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But I will share because again thisis part of my healing to know
that her husband, Brian was abusingher emotionally to control her in a way
that you know he would have hisway, and that's signs of abuse.
Yeah, everyone out there, youknow you got to look at that control,
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and that control goes beyond just somethingsmall. It's your life, everything
in your life. That's how itjust happened. And I do believe there
was domestic violence emotionally. I thinksome time that's the worst because black and
blue blows away. But as wetalked about, you and I were talking
about earlier post traumatic stress disorder,years and years and years. Something contrig
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you into thinking about what happened yearsago, and it sets you off and
gets you feeling really bad about yourself. Let's talk about Randy Souse of Angels,
tell me about you. Felt thatit was important that any the ladies
who are going to talk to youin a second. Two therapeutic counseling,
anything you can do for children iswhat Randy's House of Angels is about.
(17:33):
Right. It came back excuse itcame about as part of my soul searching
after Randy was murdered and the twoguys that killed her were placed in prison,
and I was able to look atwhat actually happened when in my home
when I was being abused, andthen it dawned on me like, wait,
wait a minute, here, kidsperpetuate the behavior, and so I
(17:56):
actually did a lot of research aboutdomestic violence and children. But more importantly,
my daughter was that role model.My daughter kept that secret that her
father was an abuser, never talkedabout it, and then also knowing that
she never ever revealed that her fatherwas an abuser in all the years till
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probably about six months before she wasmurdered. We talked about some things about
her father. But that's the reasonwhy I started Randy's House of Angels,
because I needed to look at whathappens to a child when they go into
a shelter and they you know,the mother gets the services which is absolutely
wonderful in the agencies to help themget back on their feet their feet and
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have somewhat of a norm and sowe through Andy's Sousave Angels and I have
a wonderful board and Shery Peters ispart of that, and of course doctor
Smith directly is part of it inso many ways. But we provide therapeutic
programs to children that are victims ofan exposed through domestic violence. And then
the caveat is are at because ifyou go into our home when there's domestic
(19:02):
violence, you're going to see drugs, alcohol abuse, everything you can think
of. And so Randy's House ofAngels was created in twenty eleven. We
serve six counties and we go towhere the kids are. That's wonderful ladies.
Others so quiet over these so theyhave plenty of to say. Nance
are not Nancy. Listen to me, Sherry and doctor Ellen. We're all
(19:25):
talking about this terrible thing. Andyou both totally agree the issue, the
way that the trauma that impacts thesekids will carry the rest of their wives
if they don't, if this doesn'thappen, we have a lot of that
going on in central Pennsylvania. Tellus about your experience with that, and
also, Sherry wanted to ask youtoo, all of the you were responsible
(19:49):
for policy for this over for overtwenty years in state government. Do you
feel they made any advances that wecan hold on to talk to me?
Well, go ahead, let's startwith let's start with Sherry, tell us
about the policies that were in placeand what we need to do about those.
(20:10):
So it's a really good question,Sylvia, about the policies that we
are able to make or not ableto make. One of the things that
comes to mind when I think backto when I started in nineteen ninety two.
When I started in state government innineteen ninety two, I was responsible
(20:34):
for a lot of things in thechildren's world and the children's mental health world.
And one of the things that Ithink was very apparent back then,
one of the really nice things thatwe have available in Pennsylvania that most other
states don't have is we have anice partnership between the Department of Education,
(20:56):
the Office of Mental Health, andwhat used to be the Office of Drug
and Alcohol Programs. So they finallyrealized that mental health is this is all
encompassed. Yes. Yes, However, even though that wonderful partnership was there
back in nineteen ninety two and evenearlier than that there were still lots of
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folks, especially in school systems,who did not believe that addressing mental health
was important in the school itself.Okay, but I think through the years
and I saw this, There wasa big, big change through the years
in terms of now school folks reallyrealize that mental health is a huge problem
(21:42):
in the schools and they are absolutelywilling to accept all the help that they
can get. Oh, that's wonderfulin helping the kids to heal. So
that was sort of a process throughthe years, even though we had in
play by policy, this whole bigpartnership and at the local level and at
(22:04):
the state level, but it tookmany, many years to see that trickle
through so that the schools themselves,the administrators were on the same page.
So it takes a long, long, long time for policies to have an
(22:26):
influence over real behavior. That's ashame, isn't it. Yeah, it
takes many, many years. InOne of the things that I learned as
I was going through some of thelearning as part of being at the Office
of Mental Health and Substance Abuse Servicesis that there was this wonderful study by
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the SETUS for Disease Control and prevention. That was the Address Childhood Experiences study
that happened way back in the nineties, and yet it wasn't until at least
about twenty fifteen that people started topay attention to the fact that that study
(23:14):
showed that that trauma or adverse experiencesin childhood are very common and it doesn't
matter. As you pointed out inthe introduction to this show that it doesn't
matter who you are, where youare, and it's really common and if
you don't deal with it, thereare health issues that you are at risk
(23:41):
for throughout your life. And sothe whole idea of that knowledge actually made
it important to try to put thingsin place. You asked about policy.
It's hard to put in place bigpolicies that will have a huge impact,
(24:06):
and yet just something as simple asgetting the language trauma informed care into some
of the policies that are spread outacross the commonwealth. We were successful in
many ways of getting those that terminologyinto some of the policies. There was
(24:29):
some opposition, however, we weresuccessful in getting that in and those words
are now much more commonly used andunderstood than they were twenty years ago.
Well, to ask both you ladies. We know because we're older. You're
older, you're wiser. When you'rea young kid, like Nancy said she
(24:52):
was a young kid, you felland love blah blah blah blah. Are
young women more informed? I mean, they've got to be the is out
there and you see any differences inhow they handle things these days and the
way we did twenty years ago.Are they still in denial? Are they
still in these bad relationships? DoctorI mean, go ahead, let me
(25:14):
take it, show it at once, and then doctor Ellen can sure,
of course jump in. From whatI've seen in terms of the interviews that
I've done with people, and thisis over quite a few years, I'm
not sure that young people are anywiser now than we were back in the
(25:36):
days when we were nineteen or eighteenand sort of having these wonderful ideas about
love and how you know it's goingto last forever and everything is going to
be just fine. I'm not sure, doctor Ellen. I think the young
people of today have more knowledge,but I don't think they have more wisdom.
(26:00):
I think there's the issue of fallingin love, and I'm going to
coin the term lust. That's notany term often said. They get married
for the party, for the wedding, and not for the partnership. Absolutely,
so there's that, there's the honeymoonperiod, whatever you want to call
it. But I think it isreally difficult. And I want to talk
just a little bit about what traumadoes. And it doesn't matter what type
(26:22):
of trauma occurs in childhood, andwe're going to just start with talking about
childhood trauma. There's certainly trauma andadults, but I'm going to talk about
childhood. Any number of things canhappen, substance abuse in the family,
domestic violence in the family, mentalillness in the family, poverty, and
the list goes on. But whathappens, and I'm going to try to
(26:44):
explain this in a way that's reallyhelpful, and that is that with that,
the brain becomes disregulated. And foran example, so let's think about
a car driving down a road that'sa thirty five mile per hour limit and
that car is going along and ifyou're going thirty five or forty, maybe
even fifty, you're okay, youcan navigate it. Think about going at
(27:07):
two hundred miles an hour. You'regonna wreck no matter what you do,
no matter how good you are you'regonna wreck. Well, think about this
childhood brain that becomes an adult,teenage brain that becomes an adult brain.
That's a two hundred mile per hourbrain. And it's really hard to see
everything at two hundred miles per hour. And so we think about these young
(27:29):
people and again it's still within theadults. We think about a young person
who's falling in love, Well,you know, we all know there's hormones
with falling in love. We'll justjack those up ten times. We think
about studying for school or doing ajob as a young person. Well,
again, if you're a car mechanicand you're trying to do mechanics at two
(27:52):
hundred miles per hour versus thirty fivemiles per hour, how well are you
going to do? Are you goingto keep I'm not a mechanic, but
you know you're going to keep trackof the bolts in the oil if you're
a Yeah, so many different thingsare going to be affected with that two
hundred miles per hour. And that'sjust a picture for you. Well,
I want to continue our conversation,ladies, if you please come back next
(28:14):
week. There's so much more wehave to talk about, including Nancy,
those wonderful podcasts, So thank youagain these to these women who are so
amazing. And I invite my listenersto join us next week and we're going
to continue our conversation about the seriesepidemic and it is of domestic violence.
I'm Sylvia Moss. This has beeninsight. Thank you so much for listening.
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learn about life changing opportunities in yourarea.
Hi, I'm Sylvia Moss, andthis is Insight, a presentation of iHeartMedia
where we really do care about ourlocal communities and all our listeners who live
here. And because I care somuch, I decided to do a two
part program about a serious issue thatcan happen to anyone. I said,
anyone, regardless of race, age, sexual orientation, religion, sex,
(00:23):
or even gender identity. Affects peopleof all socioeconomic backgrounds and education levels,
and it occurs in both opposite sexand same sex relationships. Domestic violence is
defined as a pattern of abusive behaviorin any relationship that's used by one partner
to gain or maintain power and controlover another person. Domestic violence can be
(00:47):
physical, sexual, emotional, economic, or psychological. These are behaviors you
need to pay attention to the peoplewho will abmit violence against you. Usually
in intimidate, you, manipulate,humiliate, isolate, frighten, terrorize,
They coerce you, they threaten you, they blame you, hurt you physically,
(01:08):
emotionally and mentally, and they canalso wound someone and without serious intervention,
domestic violence can often lead to aterrible tragedy. Domestic violence not only
affects those who are abused, butalso had a real effect on family members,
friends, coworkers, and especially kids. And we're going to talk about
that too. That's especially important tome. Research shows that when kids are
(01:33):
witnessed to violence in their homes,it predisposes them to various social and physical
problems. While teaching them it's okay, it's a normal way of life,
it also increases their chances of becomingthe next generation of abusers and victims.
And to those who have never beena victim of domestic violent I wanted to
say this to you. There isno way that you can ever understand how
(01:57):
dehumanizing and overpowering it is to constantlybe mentally, emotionally and physically abused.
And those who ask victims of abuse, why don't you just leave? Well,
that is the worst thing that youcan say to someone who feels trapped
and hopeless. Over the next coupleof weeks, you're going to learn about
the dynamics of domestic abuse, whyit doesn't always look the way you expect
(02:21):
it to be, and the terribleimpact, as I said, that it
has on children. And if you'rea regular listener to the show, you
know that I just don't try tooffer insight into any issue. I also
make every effort to present you withthe best experts who can provide you with
the possible direction and valuable resources.That's what we're going to do today.
And with that being said, Ican tell you I am very grateful to
(02:42):
these ladies who have come in today. Nancy Chauves. She is the founder
and executive director of Randy's House ofAngels. Sherri Peters, nationally recognized the
facilitator in the children's mental health fields, and doctor Ellen Smith, retired family
doctor and mental health facilitators. Ladies, where do I start? I'm just
this is the worst thing anybody cando. Nancy. I'm going to start
(03:06):
with you, dear. I don'tknow how you've been able to put one
foot in front of another. You'rea victim of domestic violence. Ten or
twenty years ago. Your beautiful daughter, Randy was murdered by her husband,
and that's why you started Randy's Houseof Angels. Well, let me start
with this. While you were goingthrough domestic violence, tell me how the
(03:28):
person I would assume, where's yourhusband? What he did to you?
What kind of things like I mentionedsome of the things coercing you, abusing
you. First of all, thankyou for inviting here today. Let it's
my pleasure. My ex husband wasthe typical abuser. He knew when to
abuse me, and from the verybeginning when he took me away from my
(03:52):
home. I mean, I admitto everyone I was young. I was
only nineteen and I ran away andmarried this man that I really didn't know.
I had met him about seven monthsbefore and just fell in love.
So I say, the minute thathe met me, he knew how to
manipulate me by bringing me in whenthey call the honeymoon period. By you
(04:15):
know, I was his princess.I want to marry you. You know,
I want to be the best providerto you. And this is the
things that triggered in my mind,because wait a minute, I grew up
with my mom and my dad.My dad in when I was growing up,
my mother was a home keeper andalso my father was the bread winner.
And so that showed the respect formy culture and what was happening in
(04:41):
my home. And so I left. But that was the key. The
minute he took me away from myfamily and we moved outside the state,
he could have more control over me. He knew exactly what he was doing,
and he also knew that as badas it was for me to leave
my home, he started immediately withthe abuse of the rules. I thought
(05:03):
that was very interesting, where heset me down in our apartment and told
me these are the rules and basicallysaying, I'm going to do what I've
always been doing. I'm a sailor, and I can, you know,
come off the ship and go withmy friends to what they call the bowling
Alley, which was basically a placeto have drinks and fun. But I
(05:24):
was to be there and ready whenhe came home. But he knew right
from the very beginning how he controlledme, and I was so naive.
I really wasn't sure hop out whatI was getting myself into. I immediately
went from you know, being awife and then taking care of the person
(05:47):
that I loved and thought loved meand doing everything possible to keep him happy.
So I would say that the firstthing he did to me was to
slap me across the face because Isaid some than in front of his friends,
which was an embarrassment to him.And also I think it was the
way for him to set the stageto his friends, that he was in
(06:09):
control of me. So it wasjust making sure that I kept that very
minimal presence, you know, withhim and his and his friends. Was
it any worse when Randy came along? Where Randy was born a year after
I was married, and I reallythought that, you know, having a
(06:32):
tryal and being pregnant would really changehim and he would see that, you
know, the abuse. It's notnecessary to hurt me physically and mentally.
But even when I was pregnant,he abused me really bad. I mean,
I thought I had lost Randy.And the whole episode itself was that,
you know, he never revealed Henever took me to the hospital of
(06:56):
the abuse that I went through.He never took me, like I said,
to hospital to see if I wasbaby okay, because that was the
secret. He would get in alot of trouble. And so that's how
we lived our life. Why don'tyou tell your family go back home.
My family was here in Pennsylvania.I was in Virginia. Keep in mind,
I ran away got married to thisman that had asked my parents to
(07:20):
marry me. When he got outof the navy. It would it would
have been a year and a halflater, but I was stubborn and right.
And that's why I'm saying to allthe young people, you think that
a person when you meet them whenyou're seventeen, eighteen, nineteen years old,
(07:41):
you're so young, you're so naive. The world is out there waiting
for you to explore. But whenyou have someone that comes into your life
and just sweeps you over and saysthat you know they love you forever,
your everything to them, and thenyou know, before you know, you
have a child like I did,and that doesn't stop. That did not
stop the abuse. And to thoseyoung girls out there who marry somebody for
(08:07):
that reason or any other reason,and then you start to see these things
or have these behaviors, let metell you right now, you cannot love
them enough to change them. Youcannot change this person, right, true,
Sylvia. I mean I always sayI loved my ex husband, but
when I was with him, right, I took all of his I'm sorry,
(08:31):
I won't do it again. Ibelieved in him, but he did
provide, you know, sure,my daughter and I with a nice home,
you know, and we did havethings, but that did not take
up all the abuse that he thatI endured, and so that word love.
(08:52):
It took me years later to reallyunderstand that love is just throwing that
is just thrown around and love.A person that abuses you does not love
you. That's not love. Thatdoes not love. So it took me
many years to realize that I wasn'treally experiencing love like I did later in
life. Well to those people,as I said, this has been said
(09:15):
over and over and over again topeople, is why don't you just leave?
What would you say to somebody likethat today? You didn't walk in
my shoes? I mean, yes, did I have several safety plans?
And that those terms safety plans Ididn't hear till later in my life.
In my mind, what can Ido to leave him and also have my
(09:37):
daughter? Because the threats were alwaysthere. If you ever leave me,
he'll take my daughter Randy from me. If you ever leave me, I'll
come after you and kill you.You will never go on your own,
You'll never survive. Look at you, You're fat, you're ugly, No
one wants you. So he justkept that emotional abuse up to make me
(09:58):
believe that I I couldn't go outon my own. It took several times
for me to leave, and Ifinally did that when I was twenty five
years old, and I had tomake a better life for my daughter.
And that's what I've had this conversationwith a lot of the women who have
been abused, and the majority ofthem have been like you, Nancy,
(10:18):
You're you're on the Governor's Commission forWomen. You've been very successful. A
lot of these women are really highlyeducated and they are accomplished, and they
tell me that. People say,well, what's the matter with you?
You're so smart? How do youlet yourself get into something like that?
But they've been brainwashed. That canhappen to anybody, right, I mean
(10:41):
I really took till death do youpart? Yes, got married very serious,
and I also knew that I wouldnever break up the family because my
daughter that's her father or her mother. And that was really tough for me.
That was dilemma I was going through, although it was continued to be
abused, and I was confused.I'll be honest, I was so confused.
(11:03):
What's worse living with someone that's abusingme or actually being able to go
on my own and trying to survive. So that's the odd tell I can
just share with you this the mentalpart of an abuser, what he does
to you to make you believe thatyou never survive on your own. And
why didn't you leave? People haveasked me that over and over again.
(11:26):
You just cannot pick up and alot of victims out there, well,
if they're honest, they'll tell youhaving financial support plays a big role.
How would I actually feed my daughter? Yeah? Where would I go to
live? I mean I wasn't allowedto work. So when I was actually
I forced him to make a decision. Later, when my daughter was like
(11:50):
five years old, I went towork, but I did not know what
I wanted to do. I didn'thave a career profession, and so that
all played together. Why did IWhy didn't I leave? Is because this
what happened to me and I livedthrough it. That's exactly right. What
do you think victims of domestic violencehid it from They hide you to work,
(12:13):
they hided they don't kill their families. Why is that it's the best
kept secret? I mean when Iwas being abused and I had bruises all
over my body, especially in myface and my arms, I was really
good at makeup and wearing long sleeves. I would never ever tell anyone that
I was being abused. I mean, I didn't learn about domestic bonus those
(12:35):
words till later in life to realizeI was a victim of domestic violence.
I was just in survival mode.But I will tell you that that SECRETCYE
is what kept my abuser continuing theabuse exactly. And so even my daughter,
as she was very young, shenever revealed that Mommy, you know,
(12:58):
hurting because Dad he hurt her orDaddy, she never went up against
it because she was afraid too asa child, sure, you know,
with threats and just that fear.But more importantly, I lived my life
with that best kept secret, andthat secret basically was what he wanted.
I never told anyone that was avictim, and victims today don't want to
(13:22):
be labeled victims, so that's theother secret. But no, the secrecery
that goes on with the victim stayswith them until they're ready to talk about
it. And it was later inyears, I was in my thirties that
I realized I'm a victim of domesticviolence. So that's what I do today.
I'm an advocate. I talk aboutit and I share and I listened
(13:43):
to other individuals that want Twenty yearsago, this year Randy was murdered by
her husband. Was all of thenews. I hate to ask you to
talk about that, but at thatpoint, like I said, I don't
know how you put one foot infront of the other one. You have
a child that has a way,but you started Randy's House of Angels.
Talk to me about some of thethings, what your focus was, and
(14:05):
how you offer your services to children. I'll just take one step back.
When I got through understanding me beinga victim, my life was going well.
My profession was going so well instate government, and you know,
I'm very grateful for that. Andthen my daughter was doing so well.
She went to college, and thenyou know, I was. We were
(14:26):
always very careful of who I was, who she got involved with, but
she didn't date a whole lot.But she fell in love with this man
that she met at the Army depotwhen she was working during the summers during
college and met Brian Tremble, andthey fell in love. She really really
loved him, and she never realizedhow narcssistic and diabolical that he was.
(14:52):
I always remember, when you lookback on things now you can see so
clearly. But I never knew thathe was planning for seven months to kill
my daughter, That he was unhappy, you know, just everything about him,
and in his mind, killing Randywas better than getting a divorce.
(15:13):
That's what he believes. I don'tthink like a murderer. All I know
is I'm repeating what it was writtenin letters to me. It's unfortunate that
my daughter had no clue at all, And certainly I'm not afraid to say
this. I know my daughter lovedhim to the minute she died because she
had never imagined that he would dothat to her. No, not at
(15:37):
all. Did he have domestic violencein his family? Now that I look
back, I know that his parents, you know, at times it was
difficult for them, and then hisparents split up a year before Randy and
Brian got married year two thousand.So again all this comes to light after
the fact. But for Brian andRandy, get that question. Was her
(16:00):
domestic violence in their marriage? Theygot married in year two thousand. She
was murdered in two thousand and three, and I was in denial. I
was so in denial. No,there was no domestic violence, because I
know my daughter, My daughter andI there was unconditional love. She would
not stay with someone, and withthere's domestic violence where she grew up with
her father. But she didn't shedidn't know, she didn't know. No,
(16:25):
But I will share because again thisis part of my healing to know
that her husband, Brian was abusingher emotionally to control her in a way
that you know he would have hisway, and that's signs of abuse.
Yeah, everyone out there, youknow you got to look at that control,
(16:45):
and that control goes beyond just somethingsmall. It's your life, everything
in your life. That's how itjust happened. And I do believe there
was domestic violence emotionally. I thinksome time that's the worst because black and
blue blows away. But as wetalked about, you and I were talking
about earlier post traumatic stress disorder,years and years and years. Something contrig
(17:11):
you into thinking about what happened yearsago, and it sets you off and
gets you feeling really bad about yourself. Let's talk about Randy Souse of Angels,
tell me about you. Felt thatit was important that any the ladies
who are going to talk to youin a second. Two therapeutic counseling,
anything you can do for children iswhat Randy's House of Angels is about.
(17:33):
Right. It came back excuse itcame about as part of my soul searching
after Randy was murdered and the twoguys that killed her were placed in prison,
and I was able to look atwhat actually happened when in my home
when I was being abused, andthen it dawned on me like, wait,
wait a minute, here, kidsperpetuate the behavior, and so I
(17:56):
actually did a lot of research aboutdomestic violence and children. But more importantly,
my daughter was that role model.My daughter kept that secret that her
father was an abuser, never talkedabout it, and then also knowing that
she never ever revealed that her fatherwas an abuser in all the years till
(18:18):
probably about six months before she wasmurdered. We talked about some things about
her father. But that's the reasonwhy I started Randy's House of Angels,
because I needed to look at whathappens to a child when they go into
a shelter and they you know,the mother gets the services which is absolutely
wonderful in the agencies to help themget back on their feet their feet and
(18:40):
have somewhat of a norm and sowe through Andy's Sousave Angels and I have
a wonderful board and Shery Peters ispart of that, and of course doctor
Smith directly is part of it inso many ways. But we provide therapeutic
programs to children that are victims ofan exposed through domestic violence. And then
the caveat is are at because ifyou go into our home when there's domestic
(19:02):
violence, you're going to see drugs, alcohol abuse, everything you can think
of. And so Randy's House ofAngels was created in twenty eleven. We
serve six counties and we go towhere the kids are. That's wonderful ladies.
Others so quiet over these so theyhave plenty of to say. Nance
are not Nancy. Listen to me, Sherry and doctor Ellen. We're all
(19:25):
talking about this terrible thing. Andyou both totally agree the issue, the
way that the trauma that impacts thesekids will carry the rest of their wives
if they don't, if this doesn'thappen, we have a lot of that
going on in central Pennsylvania. Tellus about your experience with that, and
also, Sherry wanted to ask youtoo, all of the you were responsible
(19:49):
for policy for this over for overtwenty years in state government. Do you
feel they made any advances that wecan hold on to talk to me?
Well, go ahead, let's startwith let's start with Sherry, tell us
about the policies that were in placeand what we need to do about those.
(20:10):
So it's a really good question,Sylvia, about the policies that we
are able to make or not ableto make. One of the things that
comes to mind when I think backto when I started in nineteen ninety two.
When I started in state government innineteen ninety two, I was responsible
(20:34):
for a lot of things in thechildren's world and the children's mental health world.
And one of the things that Ithink was very apparent back then,
one of the really nice things thatwe have available in Pennsylvania that most other
states don't have is we have anice partnership between the Department of Education,
(20:56):
the Office of Mental Health, andwhat used to be the Office of Drug
and Alcohol Programs. So they finallyrealized that mental health is this is all
encompassed. Yes. Yes, However, even though that wonderful partnership was there
back in nineteen ninety two and evenearlier than that there were still lots of
(21:18):
folks, especially in school systems,who did not believe that addressing mental health
was important in the school itself.Okay, but I think through the years
and I saw this, There wasa big, big change through the years
in terms of now school folks reallyrealize that mental health is a huge problem
(21:42):
in the schools and they are absolutelywilling to accept all the help that they
can get. Oh, that's wonderfulin helping the kids to heal. So
that was sort of a process throughthe years, even though we had in
play by policy, this whole bigpartnership and at the local level and at
(22:04):
the state level, but it tookmany, many years to see that trickle
through so that the schools themselves,the administrators were on the same page.
So it takes a long, long, long time for policies to have an
(22:26):
influence over real behavior. That's ashame, isn't it. Yeah, it
takes many, many years. InOne of the things that I learned as
I was going through some of thelearning as part of being at the Office
of Mental Health and Substance Abuse Servicesis that there was this wonderful study by
(22:51):
the SETUS for Disease Control and prevention. That was the Address Childhood Experiences study
that happened way back in the nineties, and yet it wasn't until at least
about twenty fifteen that people started topay attention to the fact that that study
(23:14):
showed that that trauma or adverse experiencesin childhood are very common and it doesn't
matter. As you pointed out inthe introduction to this show that it doesn't
matter who you are, where youare, and it's really common and if
you don't deal with it, thereare health issues that you are at risk
(23:41):
for throughout your life. And sothe whole idea of that knowledge actually made
it important to try to put thingsin place. You asked about policy.
It's hard to put in place bigpolicies that will have a huge impact,
(24:06):
and yet just something as simple asgetting the language trauma informed care into some
of the policies that are spread outacross the commonwealth. We were successful in
many ways of getting those that terminologyinto some of the policies. There was
(24:29):
some opposition, however, we weresuccessful in getting that in and those words
are now much more commonly used andunderstood than they were twenty years ago.
Well, to ask both you ladies. We know because we're older. You're
older, you're wiser. When you'rea young kid, like Nancy said she
(24:52):
was a young kid, you felland love blah blah blah blah. Are
young women more informed? I mean, they've got to be the is out
there and you see any differences inhow they handle things these days and the
way we did twenty years ago.Are they still in denial? Are they
still in these bad relationships? DoctorI mean, go ahead, let me
(25:14):
take it, show it at once, and then doctor Ellen can sure,
of course jump in. From whatI've seen in terms of the interviews that
I've done with people, and thisis over quite a few years, I'm
not sure that young people are anywiser now than we were back in the
(25:36):
days when we were nineteen or eighteenand sort of having these wonderful ideas about
love and how you know it's goingto last forever and everything is going to
be just fine. I'm not sure, doctor Ellen. I think the young
people of today have more knowledge,but I don't think they have more wisdom.
(26:00):
I think there's the issue of fallingin love, and I'm going to
coin the term lust. That's notany term often said. They get married
for the party, for the wedding, and not for the partnership. Absolutely,
so there's that, there's the honeymoonperiod, whatever you want to call
it. But I think it isreally difficult. And I want to talk
just a little bit about what traumadoes. And it doesn't matter what type
(26:22):
of trauma occurs in childhood, andwe're going to just start with talking about
childhood trauma. There's certainly trauma andadults, but I'm going to talk about
childhood. Any number of things canhappen, substance abuse in the family,
domestic violence in the family, mentalillness in the family, poverty, and
the list goes on. But whathappens, and I'm going to try to
(26:44):
explain this in a way that's reallyhelpful, and that is that with that,
the brain becomes disregulated. And foran example, so let's think about
a car driving down a road that'sa thirty five mile per hour limit and
that car is going along and ifyou're going thirty five or forty, maybe
even fifty, you're okay, youcan navigate it. Think about going at
(27:07):
two hundred miles an hour. You'regonna wreck no matter what you do,
no matter how good you are you'regonna wreck. Well, think about this
childhood brain that becomes an adult,teenage brain that becomes an adult brain.
That's a two hundred mile per hourbrain. And it's really hard to see
everything at two hundred miles per hour. And so we think about these young
(27:29):
people and again it's still within theadults. We think about a young person
who's falling in love, Well,you know, we all know there's hormones
with falling in love. We'll justjack those up ten times. We think
about studying for school or doing ajob as a young person. Well,
again, if you're a car mechanicand you're trying to do mechanics at two
(27:52):
hundred miles per hour versus thirty fivemiles per hour, how well are you
going to do? Are you goingto keep I'm not a mechanic, but
you know you're going to keep trackof the bolts in the oil if you're
a Yeah, so many different thingsare going to be affected with that two
hundred miles per hour. And that'sjust a picture for you. Well,
I want to continue our conversation,ladies, if you please come back next
(28:14):
week. There's so much more wehave to talk about, including Nancy,
those wonderful podcasts, So thank youagain these to these women who are so
amazing. And I invite my listenersto join us next week and we're going
to continue our conversation about the seriesepidemic and it is of domestic violence.
I'm Sylvia Moss. This has beeninsight. Thank you so much for listening.
See you next week. Some cardiacarrest is the leading cause of death
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