In this episode of Ron Ananian, The Car Doctor he shares a hard-earned truth: sometimes the best repair decision is knowing when not to repair at all. He opens with Paul’s 2015 Infiniti QX60 — a case of DIY diagnostics gone sideways — where Ron’s careful testing uncovers a failed all-wheel-drive coupler misdiagnosed by others as a transmission issue. The lesson? Put emotion aside, baseline the vehicle, and test — don't guess.
Next, Ron helps a frustrated owner of a 2020 Toyota RAV4 Hybrid navigate a string of electrical gremlins, recalls, and communication breakdowns with the dealer. He offers insight on how to get answers, when to involve corporate, and how to make the system work for you.
Also featured:
-
A 2016 Toyota Highlander smart key mystery with surprising safety implications.
-
A call from a fellow mechanic about a 2007 Saturn with an intermittent trans fault — and the tough question: patch it or rebuild it?
This episode is packed with technical smarts, straight talk, and a reminder that sometimes, walking away is the best fix of all.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
You're listening to Ron and Nanian The Car Doctor, nationally
recognized auto expert trusted by Mechanics, weekend wrenchers and vehicle
owners alike. Ron brings over forty years of hands on
experience and deep industry insight to help you understand your vehicle.
Join the Conversation live every Saturday from two to four
pm Eastern by calling eight five to five five six
zero nine nine zero zero. That's eight five to five
(00:25):
five six zero ninety nine hundred, your direct line to
honest answers and practical advice. Looking for more, visit cardoctorshow
dot com for past episodes, repair tips, and Ron's latest insights,
and be sure to subscribe to the Car Doctor YouTube
channel for exclusive videos, real repair footage and more. Now
start your enginies. The Car Doctor is into garage and
(00:47):
ready to take your call.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I want to talk about when you shouldn't work on
the car and you know when it's time to put
the wrench down and just step away. Paul's a new customer.
He's recommended by a couple of customers to us. He's
kind of the other part of the circle. Now he's
part of completing the circle of people that come to us,
(01:10):
and he brought us a twenty fifteen Infinity this week.
And evidently this problem has been going on for the
better part of a year. As I understood it that
he'd been working on it. And the issue was that
this twenty fifteen Infinity QX sixty, as you're driving down
the road, it would start to clunk and thump and
(01:31):
make all kinds of odd noises, and you would hear
grinding and howling and mechanical things going on. And I'm
not sure in all fairness to Paul where or why
we started to work. Why he started to work on
the front of the vehicle, But over the course of
time he put a new accident on the right side,
(01:52):
a wheel bearing. He did some similar work to the
left side, and he was heavy attention paid to the
front of the vehicle. And I get it. Listen, I
commend Paul. He's trying to fix something very technical. It's
hard enough for professional mechanics, but for do it yourself
or in your driveway. Takes guts, but you gotta know
(02:12):
when to stop. So after a year or so of
this and not getting anywhere, the only thing he found
that would solve the problem was and I'm not sure
how he came to this conclusion, but he disconnected the
right front wheel speed sensor well on an all wheel
drive vehicle, on the majority of oll wheel drive vehicles,
(02:34):
and this infinity is no exception. When you disconnect a
wheel speed sensor or have a problem in a wheel
speed sensor, a fault code, a sensor fail, the system
will no longer operate in all wheel drive, so it
makes it a front wheel drive only vehicle. And as
I started to diagnose my way through poles infinity, you know,
(02:56):
I started looking, you know, could he could? You know?
I almost fell into the trap of you know, parts
from Amazon and China and you know, bad parts and
poor quality. And I almost went down that rabbit hole.
But I caught myself two steps before the brink, and
I said, wait, I'm missing something. I'm getting I'm getting
emotionally involved here, and I took a non emotional step
(03:18):
back and I said, where's this really going? You know,
what is the actual fault? So I put the abs
all back together the way it was supposed to be
cleared the codes, took it for a ride and experienced
the problem. Yes, it had this clunking and whining and
knocking sound, and it was horrendous. It sounded like, you know,
(03:39):
like mom's washing machine was doing a dance across the
launder room floor and it wanted to get out of
the room. It just it just wasn't happy when the
you know, when the when the load becomes unbalanced and
it all shifts to the one side of the drum
and that banging and knocking sensation. I said, well, I said,
it sure seems like it's not happy with all wheel drive.
So I went up and looked at the viscous coupling, which,
(04:02):
for those of you are not familiar, the way they
do oll wheel drive on a lot of vehicles today
in this infinity was certainly no exception. They run what
they call a viscus coupling, which is a fluid coupler
that will, upon demand, being controlled by a computer, engage
or disengage and allow the differential to slip or engage
at certain moments to provide oil wheel drive and proper
(04:26):
safe traction. So I disconnected the ol wheel drive coupling,
verified we had power and ground, we had proper voltage,
and I left it unplugged and I went for a ride.
Problem solved. Well, diagnosis solved. We now were at the state.
I was in the ninety percent tile where I said,
(04:48):
you know, I've either got a bad O wheel drive module,
which I don't think because physical grinding, clunking like that.
And I could look at the O wheel drive module online.
It was thereby scan tool, you know, using my Opus IVS,
I was able to go in identify it, see the
serial number, see the software version. Very very powerful tool,
the Opus, and it gave me the option to go
(05:10):
and look at everything I needed to look at. And
I said, you know, next step is I'd have to
get a scope out and verify signal. If I've got
signal to the oil drive coupler, then I've got a
bad coupler. But I knew where Paul was going with
this or where he was trying to go with this.
He was, you know, how much money did he want
to spend one hundred and twenty five thousand mile ten
(05:30):
going on eleven year old car? That as I said
to him, we played what if, I said, and what
if we fix this? And all of a sudden the
transmission popped. Where are you then? And part of the
reason the transmission came up is because he went to
trade it back into Infinity, and you know this is
this really got my attention. He went to trade it
back into Infinity. They offered him five hundred dollars for
(05:53):
the car because they thought it had a bad transmission.
It didn't have a bad oil drive coupler. So it
kind of stunned me this week. How many people looked
at this car and I think there was one other
shop that got involved with this. How many people looked
at this car and yet nobody diagnosed it. No kudos
(06:14):
for me. I was lucky, Like I said, I was
two steps going in the wrong direction, or I was
two steps from the brink of going in the wrong direction,
and I caught myself. But I'm not sure where where
everybody goes wrong, And I'm not sure why everybody goes wrong. Diagnosis,
it's no mystery. It's sequential. It has to be unemotional,
(06:35):
it has to be technical, and you have to stop.
And one of the key things I did was I
baselined the vehicle. You have to baseline every vehicle. You
have to put it in failure mode. If it's not
in failure mode, it becomes more and more increasingly difficult.
To diagnose. Too many things can mimic other things. I've
(06:56):
seen bad ground wires, mimic engine failure. I've seen and
that seemingly need to be replaced, or have cylinder heads
pulled because of heavy carbon deposits causing valves to stick
open or not seal, or carbon in a cylinder making
a knocking sound that's actually you think it's something mechanical
(07:16):
in the engine that's actually carbon related. So you can't
assume that. Well, you know, Dad told me to do this,
and Dad told me to do that. And I had
a car once four years ago that did this, and
it sounded like you've got to diagnose every situation in
the end, and I got to have some fun with Paul,
and I think I think he still likes me. I
(07:37):
told him, I said, you know, when he came up
to pick up the car, I said, Paul, you can't
do this. You know you're not gonna And I gave
him a straight direction. I said, look, I said you can.
You can go ahead and try and you know, repair
this and we can do a deeper dive and I
can continue going. But I'm in the ninety percent tile.
This is a coupling and we looked up pricing on
the coupling and between pricing on the coupling and something else,
(08:01):
I think doing some fluid services. We're about thirty five
hundred dollars into this car, three grand something like that.
And I said, you know, you've got this car one
hundred and twenty five thousand miles, ten going on eleven
years old. You've owned since new. Shown me the maintenance
that you've done, and there was no real maintenance. The
car was repaired when it broke, and it got oil changes,
and it got air filters and cabin filters and stuff
(08:22):
like that, but no drive line fluids, no coolant service,
still had original spark plugs in it. And I said,
when do you start to make repairs to a vehicle
like this? You know it's it's You've now got the
eighty eight year old man and now he's going to
quit smoking, Like, what's the point. You know you got
this far? I don't know. I can't tell you that
(08:43):
you're going to get another ten years out of it
without spending bigger money. So Paul's heading off to replace
his car. But at least he's got a good diagnosis.
And you know, if you're ever as a do it
yourself for and I I really have a lot of
respect for do it yourself is I have a lot
of fun with them too. You know, you get to
take them down one way and then show them the path.
And I think a lot of do it yourselfers are
(09:03):
frustrated mechanics. There are people that wanted to be mechanics
but couldn't because of life decisions. And they're always they're
always fun to talk to and you know, kind of
pick their brains and see what they were thinking. But
you know, as I said to Paul, I said, and
I'll say to you that when you approach your cars,
to do it yourself for, be sure of what you're
(09:24):
looking at. Be sure and have accurate information, and you know,
try to learn to test and not guess, and don't
just randomly change parts because sometimes firing the parts canon
can create an issue. I could have just as easily
have found that the aftermarket oversees from some province in
(09:44):
China ABS wheel speed sensor could have been the root
cause of the whole problem as well. It could have
gone in that direction too, and I don't discount that.
So just just just learn to diagnose rather than just
replace eight five five six zero nine nine zero zero
again eight fix to five five six zero nine nine
zero zero. I'm ronning Ay and the car doctor. I'll
(10:05):
be back to open up the phones right after this.
Let's go over and talk to Anthony and me And Anthony,
you're O with the car doctor. How can I help?
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Hey? Thanks for having me Ron. I'll get right to
the point. I've got a two thousand, twenty Toyota Rav
four hybrid, okay, and I paid thirty two thousand, obviously
second hand, and the mileage at the time was nine thousand,
two hundred and ninety two five sixty seven miles. And
(10:39):
I'll give it to you in three sections. There's first, second,
third time. The first time it was the battery was dead.
I was parked like twelve hours and I had to
have a towed back to my house in Union. The
second time, there was a warning light on the dashboard
(11:01):
and I can't remember what it said, but it just
said take it to a dealer. So I drove to Augusta,
and apparently there was a battery recall on Toyota Rav
four hybrids. So it was not only just me, it
was many other Toyotas that had to have this done.
(11:22):
So they gave me a rental and I took about
six weeks, I guess, to get it back. Well, July fourth,
here we are. Yesterday, I tried to start up my
car and it says smart key malfunction see owner's manual.
(11:43):
Then it says press SOS button. And I couldn't find
that in the in the darn index. So, to make
a long story short, I do not have a cell phone.
I went to my computer and I called our email.
Just answer and they say a mechanic will get back
(12:05):
to you, and actually he did, and this is very interesting.
Mechanics said. The twenty twenty Toyota Rav four hybrids do
not have an SOS button. Am I making sensor? Or
I am going too fast?
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Now you're fine? Is the SOS button on the rearview
mirror as part of their Toyota callback program? I wonder
is an option? Is that right?
Speaker 4 (12:30):
So?
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Yeah, yeah, I actually I did see it on one
of those videos there, but I never pressed it obviously,
and I can't and I don't want to use any names.
But the dealers closed today, so I'm going to call
them on Monday.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Okay, So my questions to you. Are they they did
a battery change or was it changing the hybrid battery?
Was it the you know that generation Toyota has a
problem with the isolation harness that runs along the floor
if the floor harness has corrosion, was it?
Speaker 3 (13:05):
Yeah, that was it. As a matter of fact, I'm
glad you said that that's exactly what they because I said, look,
can I see this? And they did something very rare.
They actually let me go into the into the garage,
and I looked at this very complicated thing that went
on the belly of the car.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Right, it's it's the main wiring harness that runs down
along the floor pin and a lot of the Toyotas
of that generation, the revs and have that particular problem.
So they've done that, and now you're into this problem.
Now this is stretched out over the course of a.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Year, right, you're right, starting November fifth today?
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yes, today. So I think your answer has to be
with them. I think we're going to find out what
they're made of. Is are they related? Is this all
three separate instances? And I'm not saying it is or
isn't you know, I'm just I'm trying to look at it.
As an outsider, I will I will say this, I
think you in good hands as far as you're you're
with the right company my belief system. I think Toyota
(14:05):
is one of the better companies with a better culture
for repair and taking care of the customer. And I
would listen carefully to what they have to say and
ask them explain it to them the way you've explained
it to me, and say, look at it from my perspective.
You know, I'm back three times in less than a year, almost,
you know, eight to nine months with similar sounding problems.
What's it going to take to get to the root cause?
(14:26):
Because at this point I'd rather just have another vehicle.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Well that's how I'm feeling. That was my next question
to you is what do you think I should do?
And I don't want to any four letter words, but
I was pretty no.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, I understand. Listen, it's it's you know, we're not
here to be aggravated by cars. We're here to you know,
just drive them at that stage, and you know, and
my my question in the back of my mind, listen,
you and I are we're all human, We're all thinking.
Are my needs being meant? Are they listening? To me,
are they actually taking the right approach to fixing this now?
If they've done that recall? All right, that recall was
(15:03):
major they had as you well saw right, they had
to take They had to gut the car for lack
of a better, better way to put it. So, is
there something not put back together?
Speaker 4 (15:13):
Right?
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Is there something not snapped in place? Is there? Or
is this just the beginning of another problem?
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (15:20):
And those are those are all legitimate questions for them.
And listen to a degree, you don't care give me
a loaner fix my car?
Speaker 5 (15:29):
Well?
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Yeah, well the thing is, I mean, right now, I'm
kind of set up. I mean, they gave me a
loaner for what six weeks for the second time, and
I I Frank would say, my friend Paul, who he
was listening hopefully, he said, you know, just get a
get a new car. Well will they pay for a
(15:52):
new car?
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Well? Right, what will they do?
Speaker 6 (15:54):
You know?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
The question is what what what will you guys do
to get me out of this car? Because I've come
to the conclusion this just isn't a great automobile and
maybe you have you know, the other way to approach
this is to talk to Toyota Corporate. Now you you
know I would I would definitely open up a case
with Toyota Corporate because that gives the dealership more latitude.
(16:15):
You know, once they see corporate involved, and Toyota Corporate,
by all rights, should come back and say, hey, make
the guy happy. I've seen things like this, maybe not
to this degree, but I've seen similar situations where and
it's it's what instigated my statement in the beginning. I
think Toyota has the right repair culture, right, they want
(16:35):
to make the customer happy. They have a great deal
of latitude the service manager. And I would go back
and talk to them and say, and I wouldn't get upsided. Listen,
I could come in here and I could be a
raving lunatic. I don't want to be. I just want
my car. I just I just need a vehicle, you know.
And and you know it's it's look at it from
my point of view, You've had it three times. It's
three similar but dissimilar problems. Am I am I just
(16:59):
wasting my time in barking up the wrong tree. Is
it time to move on to a different car, not
a different brand, just a different car, because I still
think Toyota is a good car, and would I would
I would take that approach all right. You know, one
of the things I've learned in life is I always
give everybody the opportunity to show me who they are.
And if they show me who they are, and I
(17:21):
can kind of make my judgment from there, because if
they take the opportunity to help you, if they take
the opportunity to make this right, then you're in the
right place. And if not, well then we got to
go down that road. So call me back when you know,
Anthony and you know more. I'm sorry we're out of
time for this segment, but call me back when you
know more. And let's let's talk about it further and
let Toyota know the reporting to me. Maybe that helps
(17:43):
things along too, So you never know, take all the
pull you can get. I'm Ronning Andy and the Car Doctor.
I'll be back right after this. Let's go see let's
go to Vegas and talk to Mark. Mark. Welcome to
the Car Doctor, Sir, sixteen Toyota Hilander. How can I
help hi?
Speaker 4 (18:01):
Ron, Thanks again for taking my call. I really appreciate
your time. So my step son has this sixteen Highlander
and He calls me yesterday and says he keeps walking
away from his vehicle with it running, and he goes
into a store for an hour and he comes out
and it's still running. And I said, well, don't you
(18:24):
isn't there a warning noise when you get out of
the car with your key? That's a push button start right?
Speaker 2 (18:31):
He has the key in hand, right, mark right, He's.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Got the key fob on him and he walks away
from the car and if you know, he I guess
he pushes the button to lock it. He just assume
that it locks it, but it really doesn't. Because it's running,
it won't lock. But he's walked away several times and
the car just you know, just sits there and runs
and runs. And so I said, well, you know, send
(18:57):
me a video exactly what. I can't believe that that
doesn't make a warning sound when you walk away. So
he sends me this video and he walks away. He
starts his car up in his driveway, takes the key,
puts it in the garage, comes back and there's no
warning noise, nothing comes back, and he's able to drive
the car with it running. Now it does say, you know,
(19:19):
key not detected, but he can just get in the
car and drive it around. Now, granted, when he stops,
he's not going to be able to restart it, but
I mean, that's a really it seems crazy to me
that somebody he can leave his car running. Somebody gets
in the car and just drives off with it.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Up until the point where you said there was a
warning message, my first thought was are all the keys
accounted for? And I only mentioned this for anybody else
because I've had situations where people lose their key and
they don't realize it's in the car and exactly the
car doesn't know you didn't shut it off. And my
test for that is, go sit in the car without
a key, can you start the car? If the answers no,
(19:57):
then that's that's not it. So that's not it with you.
So yes, it absolutely should either there should be a
there should be a chime speaker or some sort of
audio audio warning in the vehicle. So it's which absolutely ye.
So there's either there's either something's broken in this car
(20:20):
that it's it's not doing that. Maybe the chime speaker
is broken all right, Maybe the internal speaker is just
has just failed. Maybe there is a setting, you know,
let him. Let him look through the driver information setting, right.
You know, you've got that screen that you scrolled across
at the top and there's the little cogged wheel and
that settings, and you go down into the you know,
(20:41):
maybe there's a personalization setting there. You know, maybe there's
a software update for the vehicle. You know, it's got
to be diagnosed. But yes, that's those are legitimate concerns,
and that is a legitimate problem because you know, it's
it's the worst scenario of this is you pull the
car into the driveway and some of these cars are
so quiet, pull the car into the garage, close the door,
(21:02):
get out of the car, leave the car running, and
walk in the house.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
Yep, Yeah, that's right. That's what I was worried about.
And that's you know, that's not the original owner, right,
He's only had the car a couple of years, So
I thought about that too, did the prior owner. I mean,
I can't imagine anybody would want to shut that feature off.
I don't even think they would allow that. But I
don't know, I don't know. I guess he's going to
have to, you know, he said, try to find anything
(21:27):
on YouTube. I couldn't find anything on YouTube about it,
so you know that I got to call the car doctor.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I appreciate that, brother. The other the other question I've
got is is it after Is it after market remote
start or alarm or is there anything after market in
the car where somebody was possibly changing wiring from what
was originally there? Could somebody have defeated the system trying
to put an after market accessory in it. So you
always have to think.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
About that too, that right, right that that we probably.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Won't know, right, you know, well as it looked.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
Like the original Toyota thought.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Bob, Okay, okay, but I.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
Don't know, I I that's exactly what you're saying, is
what I thought. It has to make some kind of
a warning.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
It has to make some it has to make some
kind of a warning. Sound absolutely yeah, absolutely sorry, that's
definitely answer my question. So well, I'm glad, I appreciate it.
I'm glad to have the opportunity, Mark, I really am.
Something like that concerns me because that's a safety factor
with a with a you know, a younger driver or
newer driver, and you just you know, you want them
to all have good experiences. So, okay, all right, sir,
(22:31):
thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (22:32):
Royn.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
I always appreciate your time.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
You're very welcome anytime, pal. And you know, if he
gets a solution, drop us a line. Let us know
what that is. Let's go over to Rick in New Mexico.
Oh seven Saturn and see what's going on here? Rick,
Welcome to the car doctor. How can I help?
Speaker 6 (22:45):
Hey, Ron, thanks for taking my call. Yeah, I'm a
mechanic too. My son has a two thousand and seven
Saturn and intermitutely, it won't shift out of like second
and it locks PO seven fifty two. So I did
some research on Identifix and there's like a message for
(23:08):
some sonoid that the diaphem might be broken. Right, but
this thing has one hundred and thirty five thousand miles
and on YouTube it's seems like this transmission is pretty problematic.
Would you just go through the whole transmission or would
you try to fix this code?
Speaker 2 (23:27):
I'd probably go through the transmission just just because. All right, listen,
you and I are mechanics, right. We always give our
kids cars that they can use and just continue to operate.
Age doesn't bother us. It's just nuts and bolts in
our time. At one hundred and thirty five thousand miles.
This is probably a used car to him.
Speaker 6 (23:45):
Yeah, yeah, he picked it up.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Ye right, Yeah, So you know, at one hundred and
thirty five thousand miles and the age of the car
and the fact that Saturn doesn't exist anymore, when do
you want to start going looking for Saturn parts a
year from now after your struggle with trying to fix
the the shift's hollnoid fault or today when you know,
and again, I don't know how great of a chance
you're gonna have of finding something that's almost eighteen years
(24:09):
passed production. But I would go through, and I would
go through the TRANS without a doubt, And even though
it's not slipping, you're gonna you know, pull it out
and go through it and at least then in good conscience,
if the TRANS gave you another five years overhauled, you know,
on your time, it's not going to cost nearly what
it would cost in terms of aggravation of having to
revisit this all the time. Yeah, where are we?
Speaker 6 (24:32):
You know, I definitely value your opinion.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Where that I you know, I've gotten to the point
and I'm trying to think if we have any current
I don't think we have any current Saturn customers because
they're all gone. I think the last one was done
about a year ago. They it stopped running out, remember
what I'm wrong with it, and we couldn't find a
part of they couldn't find a party got stuck or
(24:55):
something something uptuse really happened with the vehicle. So you know,
Saturn is just going away. They're just gone. So and
I'm not saying it's a bad car, it's just there's
just there's just yeah, well no part.
Speaker 6 (25:07):
Well yeah, this see this, this particular one, you know,
this same transmission is like in a GMC AKDs. Right,
it's kind of like a GM kind of right.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Yeah, But I I think I would go through it
and while it's out, I would look at all the
associated things with it, and you know, maybe as crazy
as this sounds, how old's the radiator? Yeah, I'm like
I get to I get to be like that Rick,
you know, I start looking at things and I think
about welcome doing.
Speaker 6 (25:33):
Yeah, I'm sure the radiators ohem.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Right, so I put a radiator in it. I'd start
to look at the cooling system. I mean, it's new Mexico.
You know if it's below what's the temperature there today?
Speaker 6 (25:44):
Rick, Well, I live in Santa Fe, so luckily we
don't get too hot, right, you know, when it gets
to ninety, we're like, oh it's hot.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Okay, yeah, so then it's not as bad as everybody envisions.
But you get my point. So yeah, maybe it's just
the car's opportunity. The car is taking the opportunity to hey,
I need a little TLC. Let's you know. And then
you know, ask yourself the other question, how long does
he plan on driving this until it stops? Younger driver,
newer driver?
Speaker 6 (26:08):
And another thing that's weird about this is it happens,
it seems to last for like a few months, it'll
be fine, and then three months later it does it again.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Right right, Well, so to that point are we and
I know, listen, we use identifix too, and it's a
great resource. But does your condition match what identifix describes?
Could this be electrical a problem with the PCM as
it's turning on the solenoid.
Speaker 6 (26:36):
I was wondering that too, because I just thought it
was weird. How you know, usually when something's broken, it's broken, so.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Right, mechanical failures, mechanical failure.
Speaker 6 (26:45):
It's so random.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
So right, you know, do we have it? Do we
have a PCM fault?
Speaker 3 (26:50):
You know?
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Can you catch it in the act? Can you catch
it at the point of failure and duplicate it?
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (26:57):
No, not yet. It's like I get a take a
scandul home and then we drive in and it's fine.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
So right, right, you know, if you sat there and
does that car have the ability to have shift solenoid
command by scan tool that you could cycle it and
maybe catch it to the point of failure. I don't
think we couldn't know seven, I don't think they were.
Speaker 6 (27:16):
That good question. I don't know. You, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
I would. I would maybe look at that. Does the
trans have any other you know, bad bad qualities, you
know characteristics? Is it doing anything else it's you know,
making you suspect the trans is an issue?
Speaker 4 (27:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (27:31):
No, No. The reason I kind of wanted to just
try to fix it just the problem was because the
transmission fluid looks so good. I when he first got
the car, it had a leak on that pan on
the on the side there, so I resealed that, so
he had and even then the fluid wasn't that bad.
So us replacing that amount of fluid, the flood even
(27:52):
looks better.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
So what if you took a quart of trans? What
if you took a quarter of trans fluid out rick
and strained it through a paint funnel, you know, a
paint stringer.
Speaker 6 (28:03):
Yeah, ye, do.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
We have any sediment? And maybe because maybe it's what
we're not saying, because if you've got any little grit
in that paint funnel, you know, that's in the trans
and that's everywhere, and then at that point, you know,
maybe that's why you're solid. It's hanging up. So all right,
I got to run, kiddo.
Speaker 6 (28:21):
All right, thank you, you're very welcome.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Be well, I'm running Amy in the car doctor. We're
back right after this. Well here we are. Let's let's
go cruise over to Vermont and talk to Penny about
her seventeen Volkswagon. Penny, welcome to the car doctor. How
can I help?
Speaker 5 (28:38):
Thank you so much for having me Welcome. I was
driving my car on a very hot day over one
hundred here in Vermont, which is very unusual, and the
check engine light came on. I was due for an
oil change, so when I went to a local dealer,
I wasn't a dealer just to shop. I had my
oil change it, had them checked the engine light. They
(29:02):
advised me that the code was PO two nine to
nine and it was a turbo underboost and that I
had to go to the dealer. Okay, my car has
forty nine thousand miles on it, It's had all the
normal service, and it seems to have just as much power.
I tried. You know, I don't go on the highway
(29:23):
a whole lot because of where I live. But I
kept to pass lots of bicycle people on one lane,
dirt roads and all, and it has plenty of power.
I'm I. When I called the dealer about it, they said, oh,
you're looking at a four thousand dollars job. Just bring
(29:44):
it in and we'll schedule an appointment. I don't have
a great deal of faith with the local dealer, so
I'm calling for some advice from Okay.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
So a turbo underboost fault would be you know what,
you ever try to make it the top of the
stairs and you get winded, and you know, it could
be that you're carrying too grade of a load, it
could be that you're tired, or it could be something
more serious. And that's sort of what a turbo underboost
fault is. It could be the turbo, the turbo is
(30:15):
not able to put enough oomph to get to the
top of the stairs as fast as the computer wants
it to. Or it could be something as simple as
a leaking turbo boost hose, you know, the adducting leading
up to and after the turbo is leaking. It could
be that there is a turbo recirculation valve which has
control over the turbo charger is defective or intermittent. I'm
(30:37):
kind of surprised the dealer is right off the bat saying, oh, yeah,
it's a turbo. It's a strong possibility, but it needs
to be diagnosed. And I think that's really what somebody
has to do here. Now. You know, you have to
be prepared that if it's a turbo, it's a turbo,
it's a turbo, it's going to be four grand. But
you know, there are other things to look at, so
(30:58):
you got to be sure. If the deal doesn't give
you a whole lot of confidence, you've got to find
another dealership or an independent shop that maybe specializes in
Volkswagon in your neck of the woods that can deal
with this particular problem because this is not something obviously
to be thrown around lightly.
Speaker 5 (31:12):
It's a lot of money, yes, definitely, And I don't
have a lot of faith in that particular the VW dealer.
And but from what they told me is that, well,
you have to come to us because there aren't after
market parts and we're the only ones that can repair this.
(31:36):
So is that truth?
Speaker 2 (31:37):
That's not a true statement. An independent shop can go
into a Volkswagen dealership and purchase those parts, but they've
got to be able to diagnose it and if otherwise otherwise,
they're just guessing. So and that's the case in any
car line. You know, any independent shop can repair anything
as long as they have the capability and the technical
know how. Now there might be a situation where they
(31:59):
have to do a software update, and Volkswagen is very
proprietary with their software information. It's what makes me say,
you know what, we can't do this with Volkswagen. We
can't do that with Volkswagon. Maybe you want to buy
a Toyota and I had that conversation with people, but
you know what, sit tight for a minute, Penny, let
me pull over, take a pause. We'll finish this up
on the other side. I'm ronning Ny and the car doctor.
(32:20):
We'll be back right after this. Nancy. I'm sorry, Nancy, Penny,
you have to be one of the other Penny, you're
still there, Yes.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
I am.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Do you have a pencil and paper?
Speaker 5 (32:32):
Do I what?
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Do you have a pencil in paper? I?
Speaker 4 (32:35):
Sure do?
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Okay, write this down? And is in Nancy. So that's
what made me think of Nancy and is in Nancy.
Two forty nine. The END two forty nine valve is
the turbo recirculation valve, and that's probably in the thirty
percentile of failures on those vehicles. And what this does
is a turbo is basically a big fan. Think of
(32:56):
a big fan in the house. An ND two forty
nine recirculation valve and N two forty nine is just
Volkswagen's way of identifying the component. But I'm telling you
that for a specific reason, and I'll explain it in
a minute. But a turbo recirculation valve is a way
to control the turbo to provide smooth operations so that
there's no intermittent pause during shifts with the throttle open
(33:18):
and closing in different puffs of the exhaust system. So
there are moments where that two forty nine valve fails
and will cause a turbo underboost condition. Now, the reason
I want you to use that terminology is I want
you to go into the dealer and when they listen
to their diagnosis and ask them could the end two
forty nine valve be bad? And if they look at
you like you've got three heads and they don't understand it,
(33:40):
then they don't understand their own car company because that
language and that lingo is very common, especially when diagnosing
components like that on a VW. So go get it diagnosed,
call me back if you need more, and I wish
you all the best. I'm ronnin Ay in the car doctor,
till the next time. Good mechanics aren't expensive, they're priceless.
See you
You're listening to Ron and Nanian The Car Doctor, nationally
recognized auto expert trusted by Mechanics, weekend wrenchers and vehicle
owners alike. Ron brings over forty years of hands on
experience and deep industry insight to help you understand your vehicle.
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(00:25):
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start your enginies. The Car Doctor is into garage and
(00:47):
ready to take your call.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I want to talk about when you shouldn't work on
the car and you know when it's time to put
the wrench down and just step away. Paul's a new customer.
He's recommended by a couple of customers to us. He's
kind of the other part of the circle. Now he's
part of completing the circle of people that come to us,
(01:10):
and he brought us a twenty fifteen Infinity this week.
And evidently this problem has been going on for the
better part of a year. As I understood it that
he'd been working on it. And the issue was that
this twenty fifteen Infinity QX sixty, as you're driving down
the road, it would start to clunk and thump and
(01:31):
make all kinds of odd noises, and you would hear
grinding and howling and mechanical things going on. And I'm
not sure in all fairness to Paul where or why
we started to work. Why he started to work on
the front of the vehicle, But over the course of
time he put a new accident on the right side,
(01:52):
a wheel bearing. He did some similar work to the
left side, and he was heavy attention paid to the
front of the vehicle. And I get it. Listen, I
commend Paul. He's trying to fix something very technical. It's
hard enough for professional mechanics, but for do it yourself
or in your driveway. Takes guts, but you gotta know
(02:12):
when to stop. So after a year or so of
this and not getting anywhere, the only thing he found
that would solve the problem was and I'm not sure
how he came to this conclusion, but he disconnected the
right front wheel speed sensor well on an all wheel
drive vehicle, on the majority of oll wheel drive vehicles,
(02:34):
and this infinity is no exception. When you disconnect a
wheel speed sensor or have a problem in a wheel
speed sensor, a fault code, a sensor fail, the system
will no longer operate in all wheel drive, so it
makes it a front wheel drive only vehicle. And as
I started to diagnose my way through poles infinity, you know,
(02:56):
I started looking, you know, could he could? You know?
I almost fell into the trap of you know, parts
from Amazon and China and you know, bad parts and
poor quality. And I almost went down that rabbit hole.
But I caught myself two steps before the brink, and
I said, wait, I'm missing something. I'm getting I'm getting
emotionally involved here, and I took a non emotional step
(03:18):
back and I said, where's this really going? You know,
what is the actual fault? So I put the abs
all back together the way it was supposed to be
cleared the codes, took it for a ride and experienced
the problem. Yes, it had this clunking and whining and
knocking sound, and it was horrendous. It sounded like, you know,
(03:39):
like mom's washing machine was doing a dance across the
launder room floor and it wanted to get out of
the room. It just it just wasn't happy when the
you know, when the when the load becomes unbalanced and
it all shifts to the one side of the drum
and that banging and knocking sensation. I said, well, I said,
it sure seems like it's not happy with all wheel drive.
So I went up and looked at the viscous coupling, which,
(04:02):
for those of you are not familiar, the way they
do oll wheel drive on a lot of vehicles today
in this infinity was certainly no exception. They run what
they call a viscus coupling, which is a fluid coupler
that will, upon demand, being controlled by a computer, engage
or disengage and allow the differential to slip or engage
at certain moments to provide oil wheel drive and proper
(04:26):
safe traction. So I disconnected the ol wheel drive coupling,
verified we had power and ground, we had proper voltage,
and I left it unplugged and I went for a ride.
Problem solved. Well, diagnosis solved. We now were at the state.
I was in the ninety percent tile where I said,
(04:48):
you know, I've either got a bad O wheel drive module,
which I don't think because physical grinding, clunking like that.
And I could look at the O wheel drive module online.
It was thereby scan tool, you know, using my Opus IVS,
I was able to go in identify it, see the
serial number, see the software version. Very very powerful tool,
the Opus, and it gave me the option to go
(05:10):
and look at everything I needed to look at. And
I said, you know, next step is I'd have to
get a scope out and verify signal. If I've got
signal to the oil drive coupler, then I've got a
bad coupler. But I knew where Paul was going with
this or where he was trying to go with this.
He was, you know, how much money did he want
to spend one hundred and twenty five thousand mile ten
(05:30):
going on eleven year old car? That as I said
to him, we played what if, I said, and what
if we fix this? And all of a sudden the
transmission popped. Where are you then? And part of the
reason the transmission came up is because he went to
trade it back into Infinity, and you know this is
this really got my attention. He went to trade it
back into Infinity. They offered him five hundred dollars for
(05:53):
the car because they thought it had a bad transmission.
It didn't have a bad oil drive coupler. So it
kind of stunned me this week. How many people looked
at this car and I think there was one other
shop that got involved with this. How many people looked
at this car and yet nobody diagnosed it. No kudos
(06:14):
for me. I was lucky, Like I said, I was
two steps going in the wrong direction, or I was
two steps from the brink of going in the wrong direction,
and I caught myself. But I'm not sure where where
everybody goes wrong, And I'm not sure why everybody goes wrong. Diagnosis,
it's no mystery. It's sequential. It has to be unemotional,
(06:35):
it has to be technical, and you have to stop.
And one of the key things I did was I
baselined the vehicle. You have to baseline every vehicle. You
have to put it in failure mode. If it's not
in failure mode, it becomes more and more increasingly difficult.
To diagnose. Too many things can mimic other things. I've
(06:56):
seen bad ground wires, mimic engine failure. I've seen and
that seemingly need to be replaced, or have cylinder heads
pulled because of heavy carbon deposits causing valves to stick
open or not seal, or carbon in a cylinder making
a knocking sound that's actually you think it's something mechanical
(07:16):
in the engine that's actually carbon related. So you can't
assume that. Well, you know, Dad told me to do this,
and Dad told me to do that. And I had
a car once four years ago that did this, and
it sounded like you've got to diagnose every situation in
the end, and I got to have some fun with Paul,
and I think I think he still likes me. I
(07:37):
told him, I said, you know, when he came up
to pick up the car, I said, Paul, you can't
do this. You know you're not gonna And I gave
him a straight direction. I said, look, I said you can.
You can go ahead and try and you know, repair
this and we can do a deeper dive and I
can continue going. But I'm in the ninety percent tile.
This is a coupling and we looked up pricing on
the coupling and between pricing on the coupling and something else,
(08:01):
I think doing some fluid services. We're about thirty five
hundred dollars into this car, three grand something like that.
And I said, you know, you've got this car one
hundred and twenty five thousand miles, ten going on eleven
years old. You've owned since new. Shown me the maintenance
that you've done, and there was no real maintenance. The
car was repaired when it broke, and it got oil changes,
and it got air filters and cabin filters and stuff
(08:22):
like that, but no drive line fluids, no coolant service,
still had original spark plugs in it. And I said,
when do you start to make repairs to a vehicle
like this? You know it's it's You've now got the
eighty eight year old man and now he's going to
quit smoking, Like, what's the point. You know you got
this far? I don't know. I can't tell you that
(08:43):
you're going to get another ten years out of it
without spending bigger money. So Paul's heading off to replace
his car. But at least he's got a good diagnosis.
And you know, if you're ever as a do it
yourself for and I I really have a lot of
respect for do it yourself is I have a lot
of fun with them too. You know, you get to
take them down one way and then show them the path.
And I think a lot of do it yourselfers are
(09:03):
frustrated mechanics. There are people that wanted to be mechanics
but couldn't because of life decisions. And they're always they're
always fun to talk to and you know, kind of
pick their brains and see what they were thinking. But
you know, as I said to Paul, I said, and
I'll say to you that when you approach your cars,
to do it yourself for, be sure of what you're
(09:24):
looking at. Be sure and have accurate information, and you know,
try to learn to test and not guess, and don't
just randomly change parts because sometimes firing the parts canon
can create an issue. I could have just as easily
have found that the aftermarket oversees from some province in
(09:44):
China ABS wheel speed sensor could have been the root
cause of the whole problem as well. It could have
gone in that direction too, and I don't discount that.
So just just just learn to diagnose rather than just
replace eight five five six zero nine nine zero zero
again eight fix to five five six zero nine nine
zero zero. I'm ronning Ay and the car doctor. I'll
(10:05):
be back to open up the phones right after this.
Let's go over and talk to Anthony and me And Anthony,
you're O with the car doctor. How can I help?
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Hey? Thanks for having me Ron. I'll get right to
the point. I've got a two thousand, twenty Toyota Rav
four hybrid, okay, and I paid thirty two thousand, obviously
second hand, and the mileage at the time was nine thousand,
two hundred and ninety two five sixty seven miles. And
(10:39):
I'll give it to you in three sections. There's first, second,
third time. The first time it was the battery was dead.
I was parked like twelve hours and I had to
have a towed back to my house in Union. The
second time, there was a warning light on the dashboard
(11:01):
and I can't remember what it said, but it just
said take it to a dealer. So I drove to Augusta,
and apparently there was a battery recall on Toyota Rav
four hybrids. So it was not only just me, it
was many other Toyotas that had to have this done.
(11:22):
So they gave me a rental and I took about
six weeks, I guess, to get it back. Well, July fourth,
here we are. Yesterday, I tried to start up my
car and it says smart key malfunction see owner's manual.
(11:43):
Then it says press SOS button. And I couldn't find
that in the in the darn index. So, to make
a long story short, I do not have a cell phone.
I went to my computer and I called our email.
Just answer and they say a mechanic will get back
(12:05):
to you, and actually he did, and this is very interesting.
Mechanics said. The twenty twenty Toyota Rav four hybrids do
not have an SOS button. Am I making sensor? Or
I am going too fast?
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Now you're fine? Is the SOS button on the rearview
mirror as part of their Toyota callback program? I wonder
is an option? Is that right?
Speaker 4 (12:30):
So?
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Yeah, yeah, I actually I did see it on one
of those videos there, but I never pressed it obviously,
and I can't and I don't want to use any names.
But the dealers closed today, so I'm going to call
them on Monday.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Okay, So my questions to you. Are they they did
a battery change or was it changing the hybrid battery?
Was it the you know that generation Toyota has a
problem with the isolation harness that runs along the floor
if the floor harness has corrosion, was it?
Speaker 3 (13:05):
Yeah, that was it. As a matter of fact, I'm
glad you said that that's exactly what they because I said, look,
can I see this? And they did something very rare.
They actually let me go into the into the garage,
and I looked at this very complicated thing that went
on the belly of the car.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Right, it's it's the main wiring harness that runs down
along the floor pin and a lot of the Toyotas
of that generation, the revs and have that particular problem.
So they've done that, and now you're into this problem.
Now this is stretched out over the course of a.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Year, right, you're right, starting November fifth today?
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yes, today. So I think your answer has to be
with them. I think we're going to find out what
they're made of. Is are they related? Is this all
three separate instances? And I'm not saying it is or
isn't you know, I'm just I'm trying to look at it.
As an outsider, I will I will say this, I
think you in good hands as far as you're you're
with the right company my belief system. I think Toyota
(14:05):
is one of the better companies with a better culture
for repair and taking care of the customer. And I
would listen carefully to what they have to say and
ask them explain it to them the way you've explained
it to me, and say, look at it from my perspective.
You know, I'm back three times in less than a year, almost,
you know, eight to nine months with similar sounding problems.
What's it going to take to get to the root cause?
(14:26):
Because at this point I'd rather just have another vehicle.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Well that's how I'm feeling. That was my next question
to you is what do you think I should do?
And I don't want to any four letter words, but
I was pretty no.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, I understand. Listen, it's it's you know, we're not
here to be aggravated by cars. We're here to you know,
just drive them at that stage, and you know, and
my my question in the back of my mind, listen,
you and I are we're all human, We're all thinking.
Are my needs being meant? Are they listening? To me,
are they actually taking the right approach to fixing this now?
If they've done that recall? All right, that recall was
(15:03):
major they had as you well saw right, they had
to take They had to gut the car for lack
of a better, better way to put it. So, is
there something not put back together?
Speaker 4 (15:13):
Right?
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Is there something not snapped in place? Is there? Or
is this just the beginning of another problem?
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (15:20):
And those are those are all legitimate questions for them.
And listen to a degree, you don't care give me
a loaner fix my car?
Speaker 5 (15:29):
Well?
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Yeah, well the thing is, I mean, right now, I'm
kind of set up. I mean, they gave me a
loaner for what six weeks for the second time, and
I I Frank would say, my friend Paul, who he
was listening hopefully, he said, you know, just get a
get a new car. Well will they pay for a
(15:52):
new car?
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Well? Right, what will they do?
Speaker 6 (15:54):
You know?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
The question is what what what will you guys do
to get me out of this car? Because I've come
to the conclusion this just isn't a great automobile and
maybe you have you know, the other way to approach
this is to talk to Toyota Corporate. Now you you
know I would I would definitely open up a case
with Toyota Corporate because that gives the dealership more latitude.
(16:15):
You know, once they see corporate involved, and Toyota Corporate,
by all rights, should come back and say, hey, make
the guy happy. I've seen things like this, maybe not
to this degree, but I've seen similar situations where and
it's it's what instigated my statement in the beginning. I
think Toyota has the right repair culture, right, they want
(16:35):
to make the customer happy. They have a great deal
of latitude the service manager. And I would go back
and talk to them and say, and I wouldn't get upsided. Listen,
I could come in here and I could be a
raving lunatic. I don't want to be. I just want
my car. I just I just need a vehicle, you know.
And and you know it's it's look at it from
my point of view, You've had it three times. It's
three similar but dissimilar problems. Am I am I just
(16:59):
wasting my time in barking up the wrong tree. Is
it time to move on to a different car, not
a different brand, just a different car, because I still
think Toyota is a good car, and would I would
I would take that approach all right. You know, one
of the things I've learned in life is I always
give everybody the opportunity to show me who they are.
And if they show me who they are, and I
(17:21):
can kind of make my judgment from there, because if
they take the opportunity to help you, if they take
the opportunity to make this right, then you're in the
right place. And if not, well then we got to
go down that road. So call me back when you know,
Anthony and you know more. I'm sorry we're out of
time for this segment, but call me back when you
know more. And let's let's talk about it further and
let Toyota know the reporting to me. Maybe that helps
(17:43):
things along too, So you never know, take all the
pull you can get. I'm Ronning Andy and the Car Doctor.
I'll be back right after this. Let's go see let's
go to Vegas and talk to Mark. Mark. Welcome to
the Car Doctor, Sir, sixteen Toyota Hilander. How can I
help hi?
Speaker 4 (18:01):
Ron, Thanks again for taking my call. I really appreciate
your time. So my step son has this sixteen Highlander
and He calls me yesterday and says he keeps walking
away from his vehicle with it running, and he goes
into a store for an hour and he comes out
and it's still running. And I said, well, don't you
(18:24):
isn't there a warning noise when you get out of
the car with your key? That's a push button start right?
Speaker 2 (18:31):
He has the key in hand, right, mark right, He's.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Got the key fob on him and he walks away
from the car and if you know, he I guess
he pushes the button to lock it. He just assume
that it locks it, but it really doesn't. Because it's running,
it won't lock. But he's walked away several times and
the car just you know, just sits there and runs
and runs. And so I said, well, you know, send
(18:57):
me a video exactly what. I can't believe that that
doesn't make a warning sound when you walk away. So
he sends me this video and he walks away. He
starts his car up in his driveway, takes the key,
puts it in the garage, comes back and there's no
warning noise, nothing comes back, and he's able to drive
the car with it running. Now it does say, you know,
(19:19):
key not detected, but he can just get in the
car and drive it around. Now, granted, when he stops,
he's not going to be able to restart it, but
I mean, that's a really it seems crazy to me
that somebody he can leave his car running. Somebody gets
in the car and just drives off with it.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Up until the point where you said there was a
warning message, my first thought was are all the keys
accounted for? And I only mentioned this for anybody else
because I've had situations where people lose their key and
they don't realize it's in the car and exactly the
car doesn't know you didn't shut it off. And my
test for that is, go sit in the car without
a key, can you start the car? If the answers no,
(19:57):
then that's that's not it. So that's not it with you.
So yes, it absolutely should either there should be a
there should be a chime speaker or some sort of
audio audio warning in the vehicle. So it's which absolutely ye.
So there's either there's either something's broken in this car
(20:20):
that it's it's not doing that. Maybe the chime speaker
is broken all right, Maybe the internal speaker is just
has just failed. Maybe there is a setting, you know,
let him. Let him look through the driver information setting, right.
You know, you've got that screen that you scrolled across
at the top and there's the little cogged wheel and
that settings, and you go down into the you know,
(20:41):
maybe there's a personalization setting there. You know, maybe there's
a software update for the vehicle. You know, it's got
to be diagnosed. But yes, that's those are legitimate concerns,
and that is a legitimate problem because you know, it's
it's the worst scenario of this is you pull the
car into the driveway and some of these cars are
so quiet, pull the car into the garage, close the door,
(21:02):
get out of the car, leave the car running, and
walk in the house.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
Yep, Yeah, that's right. That's what I was worried about.
And that's you know, that's not the original owner, right,
He's only had the car a couple of years, So
I thought about that too, did the prior owner. I mean,
I can't imagine anybody would want to shut that feature off.
I don't even think they would allow that. But I
don't know, I don't know. I guess he's going to
have to, you know, he said, try to find anything
(21:27):
on YouTube. I couldn't find anything on YouTube about it,
so you know that I got to call the car doctor.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I appreciate that, brother. The other the other question I've
got is is it after Is it after market remote
start or alarm or is there anything after market in
the car where somebody was possibly changing wiring from what
was originally there? Could somebody have defeated the system trying
to put an after market accessory in it. So you
always have to think.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
About that too, that right, right that that we probably.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Won't know, right, you know, well as it looked.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
Like the original Toyota thought.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Bob, Okay, okay, but I.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
Don't know, I I that's exactly what you're saying, is
what I thought. It has to make some kind of
a warning.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
It has to make some it has to make some
kind of a warning. Sound absolutely yeah, absolutely sorry, that's
definitely answer my question. So well, I'm glad, I appreciate it.
I'm glad to have the opportunity, Mark, I really am.
Something like that concerns me because that's a safety factor
with a with a you know, a younger driver or
newer driver, and you just you know, you want them
to all have good experiences. So, okay, all right, sir,
(22:31):
thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (22:32):
Royn.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
I always appreciate your time.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
You're very welcome anytime, pal. And you know, if he
gets a solution, drop us a line. Let us know
what that is. Let's go over to Rick in New Mexico.
Oh seven Saturn and see what's going on here? Rick,
Welcome to the car doctor. How can I help?
Speaker 6 (22:45):
Hey, Ron, thanks for taking my call. Yeah, I'm a
mechanic too. My son has a two thousand and seven
Saturn and intermitutely, it won't shift out of like second
and it locks PO seven fifty two. So I did
some research on Identifix and there's like a message for
(23:08):
some sonoid that the diaphem might be broken. Right, but
this thing has one hundred and thirty five thousand miles
and on YouTube it's seems like this transmission is pretty problematic.
Would you just go through the whole transmission or would
you try to fix this code?
Speaker 2 (23:27):
I'd probably go through the transmission just just because. All right, listen,
you and I are mechanics, right. We always give our
kids cars that they can use and just continue to operate.
Age doesn't bother us. It's just nuts and bolts in
our time. At one hundred and thirty five thousand miles.
This is probably a used car to him.
Speaker 6 (23:45):
Yeah, yeah, he picked it up.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Ye right, Yeah, So you know, at one hundred and
thirty five thousand miles and the age of the car
and the fact that Saturn doesn't exist anymore, when do
you want to start going looking for Saturn parts a
year from now after your struggle with trying to fix
the the shift's hollnoid fault or today when you know,
and again, I don't know how great of a chance
you're gonna have of finding something that's almost eighteen years
(24:09):
passed production. But I would go through, and I would
go through the TRANS without a doubt, And even though
it's not slipping, you're gonna you know, pull it out
and go through it and at least then in good conscience,
if the TRANS gave you another five years overhauled, you know,
on your time, it's not going to cost nearly what
it would cost in terms of aggravation of having to
revisit this all the time. Yeah, where are we?
Speaker 6 (24:32):
You know, I definitely value your opinion.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Where that I you know, I've gotten to the point
and I'm trying to think if we have any current
I don't think we have any current Saturn customers because
they're all gone. I think the last one was done
about a year ago. They it stopped running out, remember
what I'm wrong with it, and we couldn't find a
part of they couldn't find a party got stuck or
(24:55):
something something uptuse really happened with the vehicle. So you know,
Saturn is just going away. They're just gone. So and
I'm not saying it's a bad car, it's just there's
just there's just yeah, well no part.
Speaker 6 (25:07):
Well yeah, this see this, this particular one, you know,
this same transmission is like in a GMC AKDs. Right,
it's kind of like a GM kind of right.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Yeah, But I I think I would go through it
and while it's out, I would look at all the
associated things with it, and you know, maybe as crazy
as this sounds, how old's the radiator? Yeah, I'm like
I get to I get to be like that Rick,
you know, I start looking at things and I think
about welcome doing.
Speaker 6 (25:33):
Yeah, I'm sure the radiators ohem.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Right, so I put a radiator in it. I'd start
to look at the cooling system. I mean, it's new Mexico.
You know if it's below what's the temperature there today?
Speaker 6 (25:44):
Rick, Well, I live in Santa Fe, so luckily we
don't get too hot, right, you know, when it gets
to ninety, we're like, oh it's hot.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Okay, yeah, so then it's not as bad as everybody envisions.
But you get my point. So yeah, maybe it's just
the car's opportunity. The car is taking the opportunity to hey,
I need a little TLC. Let's you know. And then
you know, ask yourself the other question, how long does
he plan on driving this until it stops? Younger driver,
newer driver?
Speaker 6 (26:08):
And another thing that's weird about this is it happens,
it seems to last for like a few months, it'll
be fine, and then three months later it does it again.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Right right, Well, so to that point are we and
I know, listen, we use identifix too, and it's a
great resource. But does your condition match what identifix describes?
Could this be electrical a problem with the PCM as
it's turning on the solenoid.
Speaker 6 (26:36):
I was wondering that too, because I just thought it
was weird. How you know, usually when something's broken, it's broken, so.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Right, mechanical failures, mechanical failure.
Speaker 6 (26:45):
It's so random.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
So right, you know, do we have it? Do we
have a PCM fault?
Speaker 3 (26:50):
You know?
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Can you catch it in the act? Can you catch
it at the point of failure and duplicate it?
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (26:57):
No, not yet. It's like I get a take a
scandul home and then we drive in and it's fine.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
So right, right, you know, if you sat there and
does that car have the ability to have shift solenoid
command by scan tool that you could cycle it and
maybe catch it to the point of failure. I don't
think we couldn't know seven, I don't think they were.
Speaker 6 (27:16):
That good question. I don't know. You, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
I would. I would maybe look at that. Does the
trans have any other you know, bad bad qualities, you
know characteristics? Is it doing anything else it's you know,
making you suspect the trans is an issue?
Speaker 4 (27:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (27:31):
No, No. The reason I kind of wanted to just
try to fix it just the problem was because the
transmission fluid looks so good. I when he first got
the car, it had a leak on that pan on
the on the side there, so I resealed that, so
he had and even then the fluid wasn't that bad.
So us replacing that amount of fluid, the flood even
(27:52):
looks better.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
So what if you took a quart of trans? What
if you took a quarter of trans fluid out rick
and strained it through a paint funnel, you know, a
paint stringer.
Speaker 6 (28:03):
Yeah, ye, do.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
We have any sediment? And maybe because maybe it's what
we're not saying, because if you've got any little grit
in that paint funnel, you know, that's in the trans
and that's everywhere, and then at that point, you know,
maybe that's why you're solid. It's hanging up. So all right,
I got to run, kiddo.
Speaker 6 (28:21):
All right, thank you, you're very welcome.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Be well, I'm running Amy in the car doctor. We're
back right after this. Well here we are. Let's let's
go cruise over to Vermont and talk to Penny about
her seventeen Volkswagon. Penny, welcome to the car doctor. How
can I help?
Speaker 5 (28:38):
Thank you so much for having me Welcome. I was
driving my car on a very hot day over one
hundred here in Vermont, which is very unusual, and the
check engine light came on. I was due for an
oil change, so when I went to a local dealer,
I wasn't a dealer just to shop. I had my
oil change it, had them checked the engine light. They
(29:02):
advised me that the code was PO two nine to
nine and it was a turbo underboost and that I
had to go to the dealer. Okay, my car has
forty nine thousand miles on it, It's had all the
normal service, and it seems to have just as much power.
I tried. You know, I don't go on the highway
(29:23):
a whole lot because of where I live. But I
kept to pass lots of bicycle people on one lane,
dirt roads and all, and it has plenty of power.
I'm I. When I called the dealer about it, they said, oh,
you're looking at a four thousand dollars job. Just bring
(29:44):
it in and we'll schedule an appointment. I don't have
a great deal of faith with the local dealer, so
I'm calling for some advice from Okay.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
So a turbo underboost fault would be you know what,
you ever try to make it the top of the
stairs and you get winded, and you know, it could
be that you're carrying too grade of a load, it
could be that you're tired, or it could be something
more serious. And that's sort of what a turbo underboost
fault is. It could be the turbo, the turbo is
(30:15):
not able to put enough oomph to get to the
top of the stairs as fast as the computer wants
it to. Or it could be something as simple as
a leaking turbo boost hose, you know, the adducting leading
up to and after the turbo is leaking. It could
be that there is a turbo recirculation valve which has
control over the turbo charger is defective or intermittent. I'm
(30:37):
kind of surprised the dealer is right off the bat saying, oh, yeah,
it's a turbo. It's a strong possibility, but it needs
to be diagnosed. And I think that's really what somebody
has to do here. Now. You know, you have to
be prepared that if it's a turbo, it's a turbo,
it's a turbo, it's going to be four grand. But
you know, there are other things to look at, so
(30:58):
you got to be sure. If the deal doesn't give
you a whole lot of confidence, you've got to find
another dealership or an independent shop that maybe specializes in
Volkswagon in your neck of the woods that can deal
with this particular problem because this is not something obviously
to be thrown around lightly.
Speaker 5 (31:12):
It's a lot of money, yes, definitely, And I don't
have a lot of faith in that particular the VW dealer.
And but from what they told me is that, well,
you have to come to us because there aren't after
market parts and we're the only ones that can repair this.
(31:36):
So is that truth?
Speaker 2 (31:37):
That's not a true statement. An independent shop can go
into a Volkswagen dealership and purchase those parts, but they've
got to be able to diagnose it and if otherwise otherwise,
they're just guessing. So and that's the case in any
car line. You know, any independent shop can repair anything
as long as they have the capability and the technical
know how. Now there might be a situation where they
(31:59):
have to do a software update, and Volkswagen is very
proprietary with their software information. It's what makes me say,
you know what, we can't do this with Volkswagen. We
can't do that with Volkswagon. Maybe you want to buy
a Toyota and I had that conversation with people, but
you know what, sit tight for a minute, Penny, let
me pull over, take a pause. We'll finish this up
on the other side. I'm ronning Ny and the car doctor.
(32:20):
We'll be back right after this. Nancy. I'm sorry, Nancy, Penny,
you have to be one of the other Penny, you're
still there, Yes.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
I am.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Do you have a pencil and paper?
Speaker 5 (32:32):
Do I what?
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Do you have a pencil in paper? I?
Speaker 4 (32:35):
Sure do?
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Okay, write this down? And is in Nancy. So that's
what made me think of Nancy and is in Nancy.
Two forty nine. The END two forty nine valve is
the turbo recirculation valve, and that's probably in the thirty
percentile of failures on those vehicles. And what this does
is a turbo is basically a big fan. Think of
(32:56):
a big fan in the house. An ND two forty
nine recirculation valve and N two forty nine is just
Volkswagen's way of identifying the component. But I'm telling you
that for a specific reason, and I'll explain it in
a minute. But a turbo recirculation valve is a way
to control the turbo to provide smooth operations so that
there's no intermittent pause during shifts with the throttle open
(33:18):
and closing in different puffs of the exhaust system. So
there are moments where that two forty nine valve fails
and will cause a turbo underboost condition. Now, the reason
I want you to use that terminology is I want
you to go into the dealer and when they listen
to their diagnosis and ask them could the end two
forty nine valve be bad? And if they look at
you like you've got three heads and they don't understand it,
(33:40):
then they don't understand their own car company because that
language and that lingo is very common, especially when diagnosing
components like that on a VW. So go get it diagnosed,
call me back if you need more, and I wish
you all the best. I'm ronnin Ay in the car doctor,
till the next time. Good mechanics aren't expensive, they're priceless.
See you
Host
Ron Ananian
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