November 21, 2020 • 35 mins
Ron starts this episode taking a call on an 07 Tahoe with a voltage problem : takes a call on an 08 Camry that has trouble shifting out of park : and talks with Matt Buchholz, President and General Manager of Motorad and Tom Hickey, Director of the Massachusetts Right To Repair Coalition about Right To Repair
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Ron and Ian. Here's a ten year old Toyota Prius
that in ten years, eight years prior of being serviced
by the dealer, it was almost forty three pages of
service history. And in a little over eight years, the
(00:22):
Car Doctor, I get run scandal and I'm not pulling
a code on okay. And the reason you're not pulling
a code is because the computer thinks everything is normal.
Welcome to the radio home of Ron Andanian, the Car Doctor,
since this is where car owners the world overturned to
for their definitive opinion on automotive repair. If your mechanics
(00:44):
giving you a busy signal, pick up the phone and
call in. The garage doors are open, but I am
here to take your calls at eight five, five six
and now running. Is there a more where your mechanic
owes you one? Maybe perhaps not to diagnose the problem
(01:06):
all the way through, maybe to just take you from
A to D real quick and real fast diagnostic problem.
You kind of know the answer before you get started.
Is he responsible for that? Or is he doing you
a disservice. We're gonna talk about that this hour a
little bit, but right now, let's kick the garage doors open.
Let's get the let's get started on the phones right away.
Mike and Iowa oh seven Chevy Tahoe voltage problem. Mike,
(01:28):
Welcome to the car doctor, sir, How can I help?
Good morning, I've got trouble with my Tahoe. At the
meter I can read on the car. It says it's
about fourteen amps coming through and then all of a
sudden them driving and it just drops down to slowly
down to like twelve all right, fourteen vaults Mike volts right, okay, right, Um,
(01:51):
you shut it off and it goes back up to
fourteen exactly all right, And I'll drive for a little
while it'll do it again, and then I can go
for a couple of days and it won't do it. Okay. Um,
this is an O seven Taho, right? And which engine
is this? It's the five three? All right? Um? Any
dashboard lights on other than that? No, I've been going
(02:13):
on for a while, yeah, a couple of months, all right?
Is it something new that you just noticed that it
wasn't always like this? No, I've drove it for months,
I mean, and no problem, okay, but but you know
how long have you owned the vehicle? Since? Six months?
All right, and you noticed it when five months ago
or six months ago, since you got it like two
(02:35):
months ago, I've noticed that I've been battling it for
about two months, all right. So my question becomes, or
my commentary becomes, this, this vehicle uses something called an EPM,
an electrical power management system, all right, where the computer
looks at charge rate and it makes the determination how
to run the alternator. The the onboard computer is in
(02:57):
charge of the alternator. Sometimes it's not going to make
that alternator put out fourteen voltes. Sometimes it's gonna drop
at the twelve five, all right, And this is not
an uncommon occurrence or comment on an OH seven or
you know, a tahoe of this generation. All right. The
way we would diagnose this is believe it or not.
The first thing we would do with scan it for codes.
(03:19):
Are there any charging system errors? All right? You know,
does it does it show any charging system errors? Have
you gotten that far with it? Or you're strictly going
by lay? All right? So if because I almost guarantee
if you look at the battery cables on this, maybe
you can tell me the battery cables on this, the
positive cable will have it'll look like an amp clamp
(03:41):
around it, right A. Right, Yeah, that's they're they're measuring
state of charge of the battery and they're monitoring it
and then they're making adjustments for how they want to
run the alternator. That ep M system, the Electrical Power
Management system, actually has the ability to put the truck
(04:02):
in fuel economy mode. The battery voltage drops to about
twelve point five vaults and the vehicle runs. They're they're
they're trying to save fuel by charging less. Less load
on the alternator means less load on the engine. And
I'm not gonna sit here and argue that the ideas
behind this, because I think we're splitting hairs because I
(04:23):
already hear what we're thinking, Like, is Ron making this up? No, dude,
this is right out of the g M service manual. Alright,
this is what they're thinking. Um, it goes into fuel
economy mode, and you know, all is well, you've got
to look for codes and the bc M the body
module and the e c M the engine module. And
if the battery test good and the alternator puts out
(04:43):
under an alternator full test, that's it. Um. You know
they've they've actually come out with a couple of bulletins
describing it. If you've got a pencil hand, you get
your hands on GM bulletin. Oh six das show, six
days show, three day show thirteen. Um, I believe there's
an A, B, C, and D version which and it
(05:03):
probably is an E by now, um, which you know
kind of tells you that GM has had more than
a few people asking this question, Um, how come my
voltage goes all over the place? Uh, you know it's
it's it's an interesting scenario, right you you think it's
we've had a problem with it, right and you and
you won't you just you just think it's broken. Um,
(05:26):
you know it's you know, I've got to tell you
and I I for years have said if I could
only take somebody, and that's what I try to do
here on the show. I try to take you guys
into the shop on the weekend when I'm you know,
there Monday through Friday. If you talk about things that
I've seen in the experiences, because yeah, you know, you
look at a charging system problem like this, and this
(05:48):
is this is old technology, Mike. This is a fifteen
year old vehicle, alright, or fifteen year old system you know,
never in my wildest imagination as a young kid in
the seventies, alreading out, you know, looking at charging system
GM charge rate was always fourteen point two to fourteen
point five. You knew the number, you know. Now it's like,
I don't know what mode is it in, what load
(06:09):
is on the engine, what's the state of charge of
the battery? Um? You know? How much gas mileage do
we want to get? Um? You know it's it's it's
they've just made it, you know, so involved that um
it it to my point, as you've heard me and
everyone else has heard me say, I question, how are
we going to do electric cars? This isn't a conversation
(06:31):
about our electric cars viable, but just from a technical
and an infrastructure point of view, we're splitting hairs down
to the degree that we're still having problems with the
general public and the industry understanding charge rates on oh
seven tahoes. How are we gonna how how are we
gonna deal with electrical systems electrical cars? Uh? You know
(06:53):
what a world we live in. But I don't. I
can't understand it, either of them. Yeah, it's it's yeah,
it's well, you know, someone someone once said, common sense
isn't common anymore, and I think that's probably that is
a very true statement. So all right, sir, if you
have access to if you have access to a scanner,
scanner for codes and UM no codes, battery test good,
(07:17):
you're done. UM. If you want to take it out
of fuel saver mode, if you put some kind of
electrical load on that charge system, you should see a
good response. You know, put turn the headlights on, high beam,
turned the blower on, turn the A C on, put
a heavy load on electrical load on the system. That
works in just about every car out there. And you
may want to with the holidays coming up if you
don't have one, Buying a clamp on ampmeter, you know,
(07:40):
voltage and amps is what we're always Yeah, it's um.
You know, he who has the most on it. And
I've never seen nothing jump on the gage at all.
It just stays steady. Yeah. Just just just watch it
at volt meter, watch it at the battery. UM. One
thing I've always encouraged people to do is never look
at the thing that might be broken for the answer, right,
(08:05):
you know, because because the other side of this is
you could have you could have and I'm glad you
said that, because it just occurred to me you could
have a problem where this is more related to the
instrument panel has a problem and the vehicle isn't showing
lower charge rate if you measure it at the battery.
This might be an instrumentation problem. So you know, hence
(08:28):
the different approach, the diagnosis, the need to scan it,
the need to go through some of the other things
that we're talking about, UM as an approach to resolving this.
I don't think you have a problem. I think what
you're seeing is is what you see is what you get.
It's real, and um I think you'll be just fine.
But try try scanning it and working way backwards from there.
I appreciate the call, Mike, let's pull over and take
(08:48):
a pause. Zero zero. The car doctors coming back right
after this draw that way. But when it comes to
fixing cars, Ron has card advice done right eight five
five five zero zero zero. Here's Ron. Hey. We want
(09:09):
to do a shout out and welcome to w m
X I up down there in Laurel, Hattiesburg, Mississippi, and
uh thank them for carrying the show ninety eight point
one on the FM dial. W m X I glad
to make you guys, part of the car doctor family.
Thanks for being supportive. Let's get over and talk to Unison, Wisconsin,
oh nine camera and some issues with shifting. It looks
(09:30):
like unis welcome to the car Doctor. Well, thank you,
and thank you for taking my call. Welcome. Yes, I
think my problem is probably more aggravating than dangerous, but
it's I still don't like it. It's like the car
is locked in park when I go to drive, and
I don't drive. I'm retired, so I only drive like
maybe two days a week these days. And it, you know,
(09:54):
you push on the brake, it's supposed to unlock the
the shifter so you can shift right. It doesn't always
sometimes it takes quite a few times. All right, Well
where do you park the car? All right? Um, so
there's a garage door behind you. There's a there's a
(10:17):
point to this, okay. Um, so if you were to
get in the car, um, you have an automatic garage
door Eunice, Okay, so you can actually get into the
car with the garage door closed. Now be careful with
this because there's a there's an issue here. But I'm
trying to make a point. And if you were to
sit in the car with the door closed and step
(10:38):
on the brake, you would see the break light reflection
in the garage door. Correct have you ever tried? I
don't believe I've ever done that. Okay. The point I'm
making is because what I'm going to ask you to
do is if you could start the car, step on
the brake and see if it shifts, and then open
(10:59):
the door all the same time, because obviously I don't
want to sitting in a garage with the door closed, Okay, Um.
I just don't know of any other way unless there's
somebody else in the house that could tell you if
the car goes into And the point I'm trying to
make a long way around here is that if you
step on the break and there's no brake lights, the
shifter won't release, because that's telling me that the brake
(11:22):
lights switch you have to step on the brakes in
order to release the shifter switch. And if the brake
lights switch isn't working for whatever reason there's no brake
lights lit up, that shifter will not come out of
park and you could have the beginnings of a bad
break light switch. That makes sense, okay, Um? Sure, I'm
(11:42):
not very mechanical or technical. I'm okay. So here, let's
let's let's let me walk let me walk you through. Yeah,
let me let me walk you through it like this.
When you step on the break the brake lights come on, right, okay,
So you know, in a perfect world, you step on
the brakes, the break lights come on because there's a
switch like a light switch on the wall of your house.
(12:03):
You turn on the brake lights. The brake lights switch
powers up the bulbs in the back of the car
to tell the person behind you that you're stopping. And
it also sends an electrical signal over to a computer
and a shift blux solenoid. You know, there was gonna
be a computer involved here somewhere, right, and that releases
the switch or the solenoid at the base of the
(12:25):
shifter so that you can pull it out of park.
If if the brake lights don't work, then the shifters
solenoid and the shifter circuits never being activated, and that
shifter won't come out of park period. All right, Now,
there may be an override. You could look in your
look at your shifter, look at your console. There's likely
(12:47):
an override. Either there's a slot that you could put
your key into manually pull the shifter out of park,
all right, and then you could actually start the car
and neutral and put in reverse or drive whatever you
wanted to do. Or it might be some type of
a button. There's usually some storm, some form of an
override device on the shifter. They just make your work
(13:07):
to do it, but they want you to be able
to get the car home if you know how to
do it in the first place. Has anybody tried to
diagnose this at all? Well, sort of but not really.
I only have its service down at the dealership where
I bought it, and um, when I told them about
it when I went in for an oil change, they said, well,
(13:30):
it won't do it for us. Maybe you're not pushing
on the brake hard enough and we can't diagnose or
fix anything if it won't work, I mean, if it
if it doesn't miss work while we're doing it, you know.
And so they were like zero as far as helpfulness,
and it has gotten worse. Um, it's it's not necessarily
(13:54):
every time, but probably half of the time when I
want to, you know, if I'm out running errands, most
of the time it works, but then all of a sudden,
it doesn't. You know, there's another way to do this too,
if if the dealer wants to, you know, work with you. Now,
let's listen. You know, running away from the problem doesn't
because you know what, that next new car, the next
(14:15):
new car can get a flat tire two blocks from
the house. So it doesn't. It doesn't always solve the problem.
So how about this, all right? And this is this
is fairly simple and easy to do a repair shop.
Doesn't matter if it's a dealer or whoever. Could wire
in a small bulb down by your feet off the
brake light switch, all right, and we do this all
(14:36):
the time at the shop. I'll wire in a bulb um.
It depends on what I'm working on. I've been known
to wire in bulbs four different sockets for different colors.
And all I asked the person is tell me what
color bulb came on. In your case, you only need one.
You need a white light. Every time you step on
the brake, that bulb will light. You don't gonna have
to have the garage door down so you can see
the reflection of the lights off it, all right, If
(14:57):
you have a bulb down by your feet that somebody
fires in. If that bulb is let, then that shifter
should move. My suspicion is the the easiest, most common
failure for this generation car, and I want to leave
you with this, is that the garage, the garage doors,
the brake light switches go bad, and they duplicate this
condition all right, they won't let it shift because beyond
(15:22):
that then you start to get into all of the
electronics that I'm talking about. The shifter controls are on
the shifter assembly, and it gets expensive. So let's go
for simple stuff, basic diagnostics first and um, and obviously
I'll close I'll really close it out here. Obviously. The
most important thing is once you get it out of
(15:43):
gear and you're driving, if the if the brake light
switch is intermittent in that it won't release the shift
solenoid to let you shift. You may not have brake lights.
So yeah, that would be bad. Um, you could get
your new car quicker that way, though. UM provide if
somebody runs into you and you don't get hurt. Uh. Um,
(16:06):
So you get my point. Some basic diagnostics. This isn't
a tough one to fix. It really isn't. Somebody's got
to make an effort. Alright, Unice, thank you, You're very welcome.
You take good care. Yeah, listen, diagnostics aren't hard. It's
you know, you gotta think outside the box. Um, that's all.
That's all it's really about. Uh. You know, that's just there.
(16:26):
There's no tried or true reason, rhyme or reason about
why and how we do things when it comes to
fixing cars. Uh. I always say, take the system apart,
take it apart in your head, take it apart, put
it on a bench, take the component out of the car.
How would you test it if it was sitting on
the bench. How would you tested if you were the
only last person on earth? And you can go look
at the brake lights, to have the garage door down
(16:47):
and look at the reflection, or I put wire a
bulbin under the dash. The answer if we can't fix it,
if it's not broke, isn't always true. And I want
to I want to. I want to make that point
very clear. Um. Coming up a little bit matter of fact.
Next segment, we're gonna be joined by Matt Matt bu Colt,
who is the president of motor Rat America and Tom Hickey,
who is the director of the Massachusetts Right to Repair Coalition.
(17:07):
They're gonna be stopping by to talk to us about
right to repair and the implications. You know, right to
repair is right up there is a hot button topic
in the industry along with your car your data. Uh.
You know, there's a lot of going on behind the
scenes that you may or may not be aware of.
You know, do you will you have the option of
where you take your car to be repaired in the
(17:28):
coming years. Do you have access to all the information
of your car? Do you know that your car company
is selling information on you? They're collecting information and we
might get into that topic of conversation to making you
aware that the car companies are well, let's see, you know,
with all the electronics and all the sensors that are
on vehicles today, they know what radio stations you're listening to.
(17:49):
They know whether or not you've got your seatbelt on,
where your head rest is positioned, where the seats positioned.
They can gather an awful lot of information about you,
um and your voices just simply by looking at car data.
And that's part of that conversation as well. But all
that more coming up in the next segment. Mattview colts
Tom Hicky, director of the Massachusetts Right to Repair Coalition.
(18:12):
We'll be stopping by. I'm on an any of the
Car Doctor and I'll be back right after this. Don't
go away. Hey, hey, hey, we're back. We're wanting any
(18:41):
of the car doctor ate your service. We're you know.
Right to Repair is a topic that comes up quite
a bit here on the show and out there in
the world too. We we seem to be talking about
it from time to time. And it's it's stirring its
head again. It's once again, it's up in Massachusetts. To
folks up in Massachusetts are continuing the fight and trying
to get everybody educated about the importance of it. And
(19:01):
I thought I would reach out to two gentlemen that
are directly involved with it. Matt Boo Kaltz is the
president of and general manager of Motorative America, and Tom Hickey,
who's the director of Massachusetts Right to Repair Coalition. Gentlemen. Welcome, Thanks,
you're very welcome. I noticed you guys are very diplomatic.
Nobody wanted to step on each other. That was great. Um,
It's it's okay, it's gonna happen. It's gonna happen today,
(19:23):
trust me. Matt, let me start with you. Um, you know,
talk a little bit about right to repair? What is
it and why is it so important? Yeah? Thank thank you, Ron,
and thanks for having me on the show. It's it's
so important to me and to motorad of course as
a as a driver of a car, and uh, you
know it helps to have the freedom of choice to
where I want to repair my car, and and to
(19:44):
own the data and where that data transmits. It's so important.
And then from a manufacturer's perspective, you know, it's it's gosh,
it's so it's so important to us because we we
want to have a free market that we can distribute
in and multiple distribution points so that people that want
to buy a motor Red product they can They're gonna
have a choice on where and who they want to
buy that product from. Matt, be you know, touch a
(20:06):
little bit. Can you just elaborate a little bit before
we continue about um when you say your data, what
what do you mean? Your data? What data? Well, yeah,
Tommy may be more of an expert on what data
is being shared with the manufacturers, but we I don't
know and we don't know as drivers, how much data
is being captured in our car and but also being
(20:28):
transmitted to you to the carmaker. And in order for
cars to be repaired properly, that data has to be
we have to be able to control who is seeing
and viewing and uh and has control of that data? Tommy,
can you add anything to that? Sure? So what's being
collected by the car manufacturers that we've just started to
(20:50):
dive into specifics? I mean, uh, and this year of
new cars have these telematic capabilities and telemattics to the why.
It's communications system that gives car manufactors real time UM
diagnostics and repair information, but it also gives them more
information driver behavior, UM health of car. It could even
(21:13):
be GPS. I mean, there's a lot of information that
car manufacturers are collecting. UM. What our initiative in Massachusetts
would do would be limited to diagnostic repair information. But
as Math was touching on, it's imperative that a car
owner have access to all that they need to fix
the car. UM having an entity that the car manufacturers
be the only ones that collect this information deseminate, disseminate
(21:35):
this information is inherently it on to us because we
do believe that you bought the car, you should get
all the information that's startifiicted. And maybe this isn't so
much right to repair, but just to give everybody an
example of what your data might be an example of.
UM I had read somewhere that when you get into
such an equipped vehicle, they can tell seat position, seatbelt buckled,
(21:58):
um you know, length of time you left the car idling.
They can tell all these things about you. Uh, you know,
if they were to track and if they wanted to
analyze it, if they needed to, if the car got
into a crash, they can look at the seconds before
and the time after. Is that Is that a true statement? Yeah?
I think it's It's a it's a reality that people
are just starting to realize in terms of what is
(22:21):
being collected. UM, I tell people now, listen, your car
is not your your grandfather's car. Your car is now
a computer on wheels. It has centers all over the car.
It's more computers and gigabytes being sent directly to the
car manufacturer. That's just the new technology we're facedook and
and look, technology has its pros and cons I understand,
but at the end of the day, this is a
(22:42):
technology that's not going to go away. It's like a
cell phone at this point. Um, it's just going to
continue to build. And and from our standpoint in the
Massachusetts Right to Repair Coalition, we're really after giving this
information to the owner because we do believe that the
owners should have access and they should control where this
information goes. And think this initiative in Massachusetts that we're
working on, it's just scratching the surface in terms of
(23:04):
what car manufactur is collecting and what they're doing with it. Yeah,
I mean, you buy the car, you should own the car, right,
you're not licensing the car at least not yet. UM.
I agree, Yeah, I think you're right. And if if
you have to, if you have to pay for the
repairs of the car, I think you have to have
choice and without choice, and that's what really Right to
Repair is about your right to choose where to get
your car fixed soon because without that right, we all
(23:26):
know what happens go up. So what's the current state
of the battle, you know, can you give us an
overview of what's going on in Massachusetts? And now you
think it's going so far? Sure, So just to give
a quick overview, we passed the original right to repair
law in UM we passed an un a valid initiative
at it is the highest passing vowed initiative of Massachusetts history.
(23:48):
Uh we joke. You can't get not attend people to
agree on anything like drinking enough water during the day.
But you know when it came to car repaired, choice
mats spoke, Um, they wanted the ability to go to
their local independent hair shops and not have it to
pay the dealerships. We all know dealerships are um can
be a more expensive and a little bit less convenient.
So UM, we passed the right to repair a lot
(24:10):
and there was a car vote in the right to
repair law for any wireless communication system remote diagnostics and
this system that I was just burned too earlier called
telematics and right now in of new cars have this ability,
meaning that the independent repair and car owners are shut
out of this wireless diagnostic repair information, giving the car
manufacturers of monopoly UM on this on this information and
(24:33):
monopoly on the repair market. As we moved to a
wireless society, this bout initiative we give owners direct access
to their diagnostic repairent information and with their authorization, a
car owner authorization allow them to share that with independent
repair or a dealer of their choice. And that's really
what this is about. This is about putting the information
in the owner's hands, being letting them be the gate
(24:54):
key brisk information and u choosing. What they voted for
in two thousand and twelve was to get their car
fricks with they want right and and give people choice
because people need choice. Listen, some people like the dealer,
some people like their guy on the corner. You know,
it's it's isn't that what the country is about, right?
Freedom of choice? I mean, that's what it's supposed to be.
So it makes sense. Has the independent autocare industry been involved,
(25:17):
because I know they do some of these They get
involved in some of this stuff too. Yeah, the autocare
industry is huge. I mean, they the defenders of the
independent repair shops. UM we're a coalition of six hundred
independent repair shops here in Massachusetts. We represent forty thousand
jobs just alone in Massachusetts in the aftermarket. That was
(25:39):
that was all. Next question, how does you know in
Massachusetts alone? Talk about the economy of this and what
would happen if this didn't exist? The idea of right
to repair. Yeah, I think I think you have forty
thou jobs here on the line here in Massachusetts there
in jeopardy if they can't get up to day technology.
We're coalition of people that fixed cars for a little.
(26:00):
If there is a more efficient way of fixing your car,
if there's a new technology to fix your car, we
need access to that. Without that, you go back to
pre two thousand and twelve, presew thousand and twelve, there
was twenty six different car manufacturers giving twenty six different
ways of fixing a car. And honestly, besides withholding information
independent repair shops, they were pricing independent repairs out because
they all had their own tools and their own methods,
(26:21):
their own codes, et cetera. We have two thousand and twelve,
and now we have this new loophole. That's a new system,
a new system of information that is unregulated, closed system,
and it brings us right back to that where the
independent repairs at the mercy of car manufacturers, and we
think that can herently wrong. We want the owners and
the image of that right. And you know I've said
for years and this is sort of what we're talking
(26:42):
about in that if the independent automotive aftermarket didn't exist,
the economy of the country, never mind just Massachusetts wouldn't
exist because it's a it's a it's a multi billion
with a b industry dollar industry um and it's people
have to realize that, you know, we're really voting for freedom,
but you know, the survival of of of the economic
(27:05):
factor that's involved in it too. Hey, Tom, Matt, can
you guys, uh stand by and hold on. Let me
pull over, take a pause, and when we come back, Matt, Tom,
when we come back, Tom or Matt, whichever, I want
to know a little bit about, you know, who's opposing
the ballot question and how the Right to Repair Committee
is working for a response. So you guys ponder that
I'm not a nating in the car doctor. We're gonna
pull over and take a pause and be back right
(27:26):
after this. We are back. Welcome back. We're on Needing
the car Doctor. We're here with Matt food Cult he's
the president gam of Motor rat of America, and Tom Hicky,
he's the director of the Massachusetts Rights Repair Coalition. Gentlemen,
When we pulled away for the pause, the conversation was
leaning towards you know, who's opposing the ballot question of
(27:50):
right to repair and has the right to Repair committee?
You know, are they prepared to respond like, you know,
how is this going to shape out? Do you know
either when you're Tom Matt, somebody go, um, sure so
so so On the other side of the no. On
one side, UM of the right to repair, anitship is
is the car manufacturers. Um. As we stated, this is
(28:13):
worth billions of dollars to them to control the repair market. UM.
When we passed the right to repair let in two
thousand and thirteen, UM, they knew they were moving to this,
this wireless car system. They knew they would find a
way to circumvent this because at the end of the day, Um,
it's all about the bottom on, it's all about profits. Um.
If this does not pass, car manufacturers will have a
monopoly on the on the repair market as we moved
(28:34):
to over the internet, fixes and wireless codes on firewalls,
et cetera that are in cars right now. UM. So
you have your GMS, your forwards, your toyotas, your super ruse,
your niece on um. And and just recently that the
card dealers, your herb chambers. UM. Because look at the
end of the day, if this doesn't pass, there'll be
(28:56):
a lot of business because you're sooner or later your
your only location, you're only destination to get your contracts
will be a dealership. Right. So I guess the question
of if you're successful, you know, how does the first
question was talking about right to repair? How does Massachusetts
right to repair winning the battle? How does that affect
the rest of the country. So, in two thousand and twelve,
(29:20):
Massachusetts was the first in the nation to pass the
rights are a pair of law. We actually created the
moniker which has now been used for such things as
iPhones and computers and household appliances because of how powerful
the movement is then. But understand we were the first
in Massachusetts for the auto right to Repair UM. And
then we signed an MLU in two thousand and thirteen
(29:41):
for forty nine other states to follow this Massachusetts law.
And since I've heard, it's actually gone all the way
to Australia and worldwide. UM. So you know, Massachusetts the
battleground state where a consumer state. UH, and we hope
to have the same impact. I think legislation has been
filed federally in and by state in terms of how
this wireless communications have thematic should be dealt with in cars.
(30:03):
But I don't think there's been a lot of traction
uh in a mass Tchusetts when we passed this. I
think you'll see that the rest of the nation follow on.
And I think it's gonna have a very big impact
from what you're saying. Let me let me go to
Matt for a minute. Matt, Um, you know, depending upon
which way this goes in my in my last couple
of minutes here, how can this issue affect companies like
Motorat for example, that's this This has to be something
(30:26):
you guys are watching very closely. Yeah, I'm concerned about it. Um,
you know, it's it's frightening when you think about the
possibility of a monopoly and what that can do to
a supply chain. And and we sell we were supplying
car manufacturers in the aftermarket. We saw both sides, and
we supply the quality parts, um on both sides of
(30:46):
the fence. And we we supply our products too, you know,
over thirty thousand different distribution points, you know, which feed
a supply chain of hundreds of thousands of shops. And
when you think about so when somebody's car needs to
be repaired, whether it's my wife or um, somebody else's
mother or grandmother. In some parts of the country, they
(31:11):
can't get to a dealership very quickly. Uh, and they
and they need to get their car repaired to get
back on the road, or in some cases the dealership
you might have to wait. They might have a a
one or two week backlog into they can get they
can repair a car. So I think it raises a
lot of concerns. Um, the economics of it all, do
you know, just simply don't work. What it's gonna what
(31:32):
it could do to pricing on a on a product
like ours doesn't work for the consumer. So just the
concentration or isolation of the distribution and supply chain and
U could have detrimental effects. Um, you know, two drivers
to the everyday driver. Because the bottom line is, gentlemen,
there's more than enough cars to go around for everybody.
(31:55):
And we're just trying to you're just trying to make
this easier for the consumer so that they have that choice.
And from a wide range, right from the economy of
how it would affect the company like motorad from you know,
the idea of giving the consumer a choice, a place
to go um out of courtesy, you know. On a
quick aside, my wife's explorer needed a software update for
(32:16):
the air conditioning and the heater controls, and I could
have done it in the shop, but I figured it
was under warrantine. Sometimes you want to go see how
the other half lives, right, You want to see how
how it's gonna work. Is what your customers go through,
you know. So I sent it up to the local
Ford dealer. UM the first time. They had the car
for two weeks for a simple reflesh. What I well,
I shouldn't say simple. No, reflesh seems to be simple.
(32:37):
I shouldn't use those two words together. So they had
the car two weeks and I said, I don't think
it's a reflesh, even though you're telling me to me
this is well, No, we gotta follow procedure. They followed
forward procedure. I'm not knocking forward. They had their procedure.
I get it. I pulled the car out, I went
to the car wash. I came out of the car wash,
it's broken. It did it again, took it back a
second time. They had the car for another two and
(32:59):
a half weeks. My wife lost her car for four
and a half weeks. Doesn't matter. She's got cars to drive,
that's not the issue. But I learned a lot. I
learned how efficient and independence shop can be at times.
And I'm not saying we're all like this, and I'm
not saying all the dealers are like this. I'm just
saying here's one example, and it stresses to me there
(33:19):
has to be a freedom of choice because imagine if
everybody had to go through that for each and every repair.
And Um, we'll we'll, we'll leave the story their comments
for another day. Gentlemen, Where can the listeners go get
more information? Um? Uh, Matt Tom if they if they
want to help this cause, if they want to go
read more about it. Yeah, Um, you can visit our
(33:41):
website at mass writes to repair dot org. We have
a lot of information out. Um. There's a lot of
advertisements on TV if you do live in Massachusetts. Um,
but listen. I think this is an education campaign. I
think a lot of car owners don't know what their
new cars are collecting. I don't think they realize what
that risk. Um, and I think it's important for them
(34:02):
to do their research. Go on our website. You can
google telematics and wireless communications in the car. Look at
just look at what the car manufacturers and car dealers
are giving you in terms of paperwork when you when
you do sign for a new car. Um. But I
urge people to do their research and vote yes on
this campaign because even if you don't live on Massachusetts,
this is this is the beginning of a huge precedent
(34:24):
uh and and getting you know, other states involved in
making sure this is a national effort to defend the
consumer's right to choose to get with to get their
car right. Gentlemen, we'll leave it there, thank you very much.
I'm on naming the car doctor. We are back right
after this. Welcome back. Why don't they of the car
doctor once again? Thank you to met Bo Cults and
(34:45):
Tom Hickey of a Right to Repair and motor red respectively.
You know, the issue will ray John and hopefully it
will stir some fires and make us all aware of
what we need to do in order to well, you know,
freedom of choice, but also to get proper repairs done.
And that's what's at stake here. There's there's a couple
of different soapboxes to stand on, ranging anywhere from freedom
(35:06):
of choice to national security to being able to take
your car where and when you want and don't forget
your data to here they're looking at that. So a
lot to think about, a lot to talk about until
the next time I'm rondinating in the car. Doctor, Thank
you for being here reminding you the mechanics aren't expensive,
they're priceless. See you.
Ron and Ian. Here's a ten year old Toyota Prius
that in ten years, eight years prior of being serviced
by the dealer, it was almost forty three pages of
service history. And in a little over eight years, the
(00:22):
Car Doctor, I get run scandal and I'm not pulling
a code on okay. And the reason you're not pulling
a code is because the computer thinks everything is normal.
Welcome to the radio home of Ron Andanian, the Car Doctor,
since this is where car owners the world overturned to
for their definitive opinion on automotive repair. If your mechanics
(00:44):
giving you a busy signal, pick up the phone and
call in. The garage doors are open, but I am
here to take your calls at eight five, five six
and now running. Is there a more where your mechanic
owes you one? Maybe perhaps not to diagnose the problem
(01:06):
all the way through, maybe to just take you from
A to D real quick and real fast diagnostic problem.
You kind of know the answer before you get started.
Is he responsible for that? Or is he doing you
a disservice. We're gonna talk about that this hour a
little bit, but right now, let's kick the garage doors open.
Let's get the let's get started on the phones right away.
Mike and Iowa oh seven Chevy Tahoe voltage problem. Mike,
(01:28):
Welcome to the car doctor, sir, How can I help?
Good morning, I've got trouble with my Tahoe. At the
meter I can read on the car. It says it's
about fourteen amps coming through and then all of a
sudden them driving and it just drops down to slowly
down to like twelve all right, fourteen vaults Mike volts right, okay, right, Um,
(01:51):
you shut it off and it goes back up to
fourteen exactly all right, And I'll drive for a little
while it'll do it again, and then I can go
for a couple of days and it won't do it. Okay. Um,
this is an O seven Taho, right? And which engine
is this? It's the five three? All right? Um? Any
dashboard lights on other than that? No, I've been going
(02:13):
on for a while, yeah, a couple of months, all right?
Is it something new that you just noticed that it
wasn't always like this? No, I've drove it for months,
I mean, and no problem, okay, but but you know
how long have you owned the vehicle? Since? Six months?
All right, and you noticed it when five months ago
or six months ago, since you got it like two
(02:35):
months ago, I've noticed that I've been battling it for
about two months, all right. So my question becomes, or
my commentary becomes, this, this vehicle uses something called an EPM,
an electrical power management system, all right, where the computer
looks at charge rate and it makes the determination how
to run the alternator. The the onboard computer is in
(02:57):
charge of the alternator. Sometimes it's not going to make
that alternator put out fourteen voltes. Sometimes it's gonna drop
at the twelve five, all right, And this is not
an uncommon occurrence or comment on an OH seven or
you know, a tahoe of this generation. All right. The
way we would diagnose this is believe it or not.
The first thing we would do with scan it for codes.
(03:19):
Are there any charging system errors? All right? You know,
does it does it show any charging system errors? Have
you gotten that far with it? Or you're strictly going
by lay? All right? So if because I almost guarantee
if you look at the battery cables on this, maybe
you can tell me the battery cables on this, the
positive cable will have it'll look like an amp clamp
(03:41):
around it, right A. Right, Yeah, that's they're they're measuring
state of charge of the battery and they're monitoring it
and then they're making adjustments for how they want to
run the alternator. That ep M system, the Electrical Power
Management system, actually has the ability to put the truck
(04:02):
in fuel economy mode. The battery voltage drops to about
twelve point five vaults and the vehicle runs. They're they're
they're trying to save fuel by charging less. Less load
on the alternator means less load on the engine. And
I'm not gonna sit here and argue that the ideas
behind this, because I think we're splitting hairs because I
(04:23):
already hear what we're thinking, Like, is Ron making this up? No, dude,
this is right out of the g M service manual. Alright,
this is what they're thinking. Um, it goes into fuel
economy mode, and you know, all is well, you've got
to look for codes and the bc M the body
module and the e c M the engine module. And
if the battery test good and the alternator puts out
(04:43):
under an alternator full test, that's it. Um. You know
they've they've actually come out with a couple of bulletins
describing it. If you've got a pencil hand, you get
your hands on GM bulletin. Oh six das show, six
days show, three day show thirteen. Um, I believe there's
an A, B, C, and D version which and it
(05:03):
probably is an E by now, um, which you know
kind of tells you that GM has had more than
a few people asking this question, Um, how come my
voltage goes all over the place? Uh, you know it's
it's it's an interesting scenario, right you you think it's
we've had a problem with it, right and you and
you won't you just you just think it's broken. Um,
(05:26):
you know it's you know, I've got to tell you
and I I for years have said if I could
only take somebody, and that's what I try to do
here on the show. I try to take you guys
into the shop on the weekend when I'm you know,
there Monday through Friday. If you talk about things that
I've seen in the experiences, because yeah, you know, you
look at a charging system problem like this, and this
(05:48):
is this is old technology, Mike. This is a fifteen
year old vehicle, alright, or fifteen year old system you know,
never in my wildest imagination as a young kid in
the seventies, alreading out, you know, looking at charging system
GM charge rate was always fourteen point two to fourteen
point five. You knew the number, you know. Now it's like,
I don't know what mode is it in, what load
(06:09):
is on the engine, what's the state of charge of
the battery? Um? You know? How much gas mileage do
we want to get? Um? You know it's it's it's
they've just made it, you know, so involved that um
it it to my point, as you've heard me and
everyone else has heard me say, I question, how are
we going to do electric cars? This isn't a conversation
(06:31):
about our electric cars viable, but just from a technical
and an infrastructure point of view, we're splitting hairs down
to the degree that we're still having problems with the
general public and the industry understanding charge rates on oh
seven tahoes. How are we gonna how how are we
gonna deal with electrical systems electrical cars? Uh? You know
(06:53):
what a world we live in. But I don't. I
can't understand it, either of them. Yeah, it's it's yeah,
it's well, you know, someone someone once said, common sense
isn't common anymore, and I think that's probably that is
a very true statement. So all right, sir, if you
have access to if you have access to a scanner,
scanner for codes and UM no codes, battery test good,
(07:17):
you're done. UM. If you want to take it out
of fuel saver mode, if you put some kind of
electrical load on that charge system, you should see a
good response. You know, put turn the headlights on, high beam,
turned the blower on, turn the A C on, put
a heavy load on electrical load on the system. That
works in just about every car out there. And you
may want to with the holidays coming up if you
don't have one, Buying a clamp on ampmeter, you know,
(07:40):
voltage and amps is what we're always Yeah, it's um.
You know, he who has the most on it. And
I've never seen nothing jump on the gage at all.
It just stays steady. Yeah. Just just just watch it
at volt meter, watch it at the battery. UM. One
thing I've always encouraged people to do is never look
at the thing that might be broken for the answer, right,
(08:05):
you know, because because the other side of this is
you could have you could have and I'm glad you
said that, because it just occurred to me you could
have a problem where this is more related to the
instrument panel has a problem and the vehicle isn't showing
lower charge rate if you measure it at the battery.
This might be an instrumentation problem. So you know, hence
(08:28):
the different approach, the diagnosis, the need to scan it,
the need to go through some of the other things
that we're talking about, UM as an approach to resolving this.
I don't think you have a problem. I think what
you're seeing is is what you see is what you get.
It's real, and um I think you'll be just fine.
But try try scanning it and working way backwards from there.
I appreciate the call, Mike, let's pull over and take
(08:48):
a pause. Zero zero. The car doctors coming back right
after this draw that way. But when it comes to
fixing cars, Ron has card advice done right eight five
five five zero zero zero. Here's Ron. Hey. We want
(09:09):
to do a shout out and welcome to w m
X I up down there in Laurel, Hattiesburg, Mississippi, and
uh thank them for carrying the show ninety eight point
one on the FM dial. W m X I glad
to make you guys, part of the car doctor family.
Thanks for being supportive. Let's get over and talk to Unison, Wisconsin,
oh nine camera and some issues with shifting. It looks
(09:30):
like unis welcome to the car Doctor. Well, thank you,
and thank you for taking my call. Welcome. Yes, I
think my problem is probably more aggravating than dangerous, but
it's I still don't like it. It's like the car
is locked in park when I go to drive, and
I don't drive. I'm retired, so I only drive like
maybe two days a week these days. And it, you know,
(09:54):
you push on the brake, it's supposed to unlock the
the shifter so you can shift right. It doesn't always
sometimes it takes quite a few times. All right, Well
where do you park the car? All right? Um, so
there's a garage door behind you. There's a there's a
(10:17):
point to this, okay. Um, so if you were to
get in the car, um, you have an automatic garage
door Eunice, Okay, so you can actually get into the
car with the garage door closed. Now be careful with
this because there's a there's an issue here. But I'm
trying to make a point. And if you were to
sit in the car with the door closed and step
(10:38):
on the brake, you would see the break light reflection
in the garage door. Correct have you ever tried? I
don't believe I've ever done that. Okay. The point I'm
making is because what I'm going to ask you to
do is if you could start the car, step on
the brake and see if it shifts, and then open
(10:59):
the door all the same time, because obviously I don't
want to sitting in a garage with the door closed, Okay, Um.
I just don't know of any other way unless there's
somebody else in the house that could tell you if
the car goes into And the point I'm trying to
make a long way around here is that if you
step on the break and there's no brake lights, the
shifter won't release, because that's telling me that the brake
(11:22):
lights switch you have to step on the brakes in
order to release the shifter switch. And if the brake
lights switch isn't working for whatever reason there's no brake
lights lit up, that shifter will not come out of
park and you could have the beginnings of a bad
break light switch. That makes sense, okay, Um? Sure, I'm
(11:42):
not very mechanical or technical. I'm okay. So here, let's
let's let's let me walk let me walk you through. Yeah,
let me let me walk you through it like this.
When you step on the break the brake lights come on, right, okay,
So you know, in a perfect world, you step on
the brakes, the break lights come on because there's a
switch like a light switch on the wall of your house.
(12:03):
You turn on the brake lights. The brake lights switch
powers up the bulbs in the back of the car
to tell the person behind you that you're stopping. And
it also sends an electrical signal over to a computer
and a shift blux solenoid. You know, there was gonna
be a computer involved here somewhere, right, and that releases
the switch or the solenoid at the base of the
(12:25):
shifter so that you can pull it out of park.
If if the brake lights don't work, then the shifters
solenoid and the shifter circuits never being activated, and that
shifter won't come out of park period. All right, Now,
there may be an override. You could look in your
look at your shifter, look at your console. There's likely
(12:47):
an override. Either there's a slot that you could put
your key into manually pull the shifter out of park,
all right, and then you could actually start the car
and neutral and put in reverse or drive whatever you
wanted to do. Or it might be some type of
a button. There's usually some storm, some form of an
override device on the shifter. They just make your work
(13:07):
to do it, but they want you to be able
to get the car home if you know how to
do it in the first place. Has anybody tried to
diagnose this at all? Well, sort of but not really.
I only have its service down at the dealership where
I bought it, and um, when I told them about
it when I went in for an oil change, they said, well,
(13:30):
it won't do it for us. Maybe you're not pushing
on the brake hard enough and we can't diagnose or
fix anything if it won't work, I mean, if it
if it doesn't miss work while we're doing it, you know.
And so they were like zero as far as helpfulness,
and it has gotten worse. Um, it's it's not necessarily
(13:54):
every time, but probably half of the time when I
want to, you know, if I'm out running errands, most
of the time it works, but then all of a sudden,
it doesn't. You know, there's another way to do this too,
if if the dealer wants to, you know, work with you. Now,
let's listen. You know, running away from the problem doesn't
because you know what, that next new car, the next
(14:15):
new car can get a flat tire two blocks from
the house. So it doesn't. It doesn't always solve the problem.
So how about this, all right? And this is this
is fairly simple and easy to do a repair shop.
Doesn't matter if it's a dealer or whoever. Could wire
in a small bulb down by your feet off the
brake light switch, all right, and we do this all
(14:36):
the time at the shop. I'll wire in a bulb um.
It depends on what I'm working on. I've been known
to wire in bulbs four different sockets for different colors.
And all I asked the person is tell me what
color bulb came on. In your case, you only need one.
You need a white light. Every time you step on
the brake, that bulb will light. You don't gonna have
to have the garage door down so you can see
the reflection of the lights off it, all right, If
(14:57):
you have a bulb down by your feet that somebody
fires in. If that bulb is let, then that shifter
should move. My suspicion is the the easiest, most common
failure for this generation car, and I want to leave
you with this, is that the garage, the garage doors,
the brake light switches go bad, and they duplicate this
condition all right, they won't let it shift because beyond
(15:22):
that then you start to get into all of the
electronics that I'm talking about. The shifter controls are on
the shifter assembly, and it gets expensive. So let's go
for simple stuff, basic diagnostics first and um, and obviously
I'll close I'll really close it out here. Obviously. The
most important thing is once you get it out of
(15:43):
gear and you're driving, if the if the brake light
switch is intermittent in that it won't release the shift
solenoid to let you shift. You may not have brake lights.
So yeah, that would be bad. Um, you could get
your new car quicker that way, though. UM provide if
somebody runs into you and you don't get hurt. Uh. Um,
(16:06):
So you get my point. Some basic diagnostics. This isn't
a tough one to fix. It really isn't. Somebody's got
to make an effort. Alright, Unice, thank you, You're very welcome.
You take good care. Yeah, listen, diagnostics aren't hard. It's
you know, you gotta think outside the box. Um, that's all.
That's all it's really about. Uh. You know, that's just there.
(16:26):
There's no tried or true reason, rhyme or reason about
why and how we do things when it comes to
fixing cars. Uh. I always say, take the system apart,
take it apart in your head, take it apart, put
it on a bench, take the component out of the car.
How would you test it if it was sitting on
the bench. How would you tested if you were the
only last person on earth? And you can go look
at the brake lights, to have the garage door down
(16:47):
and look at the reflection, or I put wire a
bulbin under the dash. The answer if we can't fix it,
if it's not broke, isn't always true. And I want
to I want to. I want to make that point
very clear. Um. Coming up a little bit matter of fact.
Next segment, we're gonna be joined by Matt Matt bu Colt,
who is the president of motor Rat America and Tom Hickey,
who is the director of the Massachusetts Right to Repair Coalition.
(17:07):
They're gonna be stopping by to talk to us about
right to repair and the implications. You know, right to
repair is right up there is a hot button topic
in the industry along with your car your data. Uh.
You know, there's a lot of going on behind the
scenes that you may or may not be aware of.
You know, do you will you have the option of
where you take your car to be repaired in the
(17:28):
coming years. Do you have access to all the information
of your car? Do you know that your car company
is selling information on you? They're collecting information and we
might get into that topic of conversation to making you
aware that the car companies are well, let's see, you know,
with all the electronics and all the sensors that are
on vehicles today, they know what radio stations you're listening to.
(17:49):
They know whether or not you've got your seatbelt on,
where your head rest is positioned, where the seats positioned.
They can gather an awful lot of information about you,
um and your voices just simply by looking at car data.
And that's part of that conversation as well. But all
that more coming up in the next segment. Mattview colts
Tom Hicky, director of the Massachusetts Right to Repair Coalition.
(18:12):
We'll be stopping by. I'm on an any of the
Car Doctor and I'll be back right after this. Don't
go away. Hey, hey, hey, we're back. We're wanting any
(18:41):
of the car doctor ate your service. We're you know.
Right to Repair is a topic that comes up quite
a bit here on the show and out there in
the world too. We we seem to be talking about
it from time to time. And it's it's stirring its
head again. It's once again, it's up in Massachusetts. To
folks up in Massachusetts are continuing the fight and trying
to get everybody educated about the importance of it. And
(19:01):
I thought I would reach out to two gentlemen that
are directly involved with it. Matt Boo Kaltz is the
president of and general manager of Motorative America, and Tom Hickey,
who's the director of Massachusetts Right to Repair Coalition. Gentlemen. Welcome, Thanks,
you're very welcome. I noticed you guys are very diplomatic.
Nobody wanted to step on each other. That was great. Um,
It's it's okay, it's gonna happen. It's gonna happen today,
(19:23):
trust me. Matt, let me start with you. Um, you know,
talk a little bit about right to repair? What is
it and why is it so important? Yeah? Thank thank you, Ron,
and thanks for having me on the show. It's it's
so important to me and to motorad of course as
a as a driver of a car, and uh, you
know it helps to have the freedom of choice to
where I want to repair my car, and and to
(19:44):
own the data and where that data transmits. It's so important.
And then from a manufacturer's perspective, you know, it's it's gosh,
it's so it's so important to us because we we
want to have a free market that we can distribute
in and multiple distribution points so that people that want
to buy a motor Red product they can They're gonna
have a choice on where and who they want to
buy that product from. Matt, be you know, touch a
(20:06):
little bit. Can you just elaborate a little bit before
we continue about um when you say your data, what
what do you mean? Your data? What data? Well, yeah,
Tommy may be more of an expert on what data
is being shared with the manufacturers, but we I don't
know and we don't know as drivers, how much data
is being captured in our car and but also being
(20:28):
transmitted to you to the carmaker. And in order for
cars to be repaired properly, that data has to be
we have to be able to control who is seeing
and viewing and uh and has control of that data? Tommy,
can you add anything to that? Sure? So what's being
collected by the car manufacturers that we've just started to
(20:50):
dive into specifics? I mean, uh, and this year of
new cars have these telematic capabilities and telemattics to the why.
It's communications system that gives car manufactors real time UM
diagnostics and repair information, but it also gives them more
information driver behavior, UM health of car. It could even
(21:13):
be GPS. I mean, there's a lot of information that
car manufacturers are collecting. UM. What our initiative in Massachusetts
would do would be limited to diagnostic repair information. But
as Math was touching on, it's imperative that a car
owner have access to all that they need to fix
the car. UM having an entity that the car manufacturers
be the only ones that collect this information deseminate, disseminate
(21:35):
this information is inherently it on to us because we
do believe that you bought the car, you should get
all the information that's startifiicted. And maybe this isn't so
much right to repair, but just to give everybody an
example of what your data might be an example of.
UM I had read somewhere that when you get into
such an equipped vehicle, they can tell seat position, seatbelt buckled,
(21:58):
um you know, length of time you left the car idling.
They can tell all these things about you. Uh, you know,
if they were to track and if they wanted to
analyze it, if they needed to, if the car got
into a crash, they can look at the seconds before
and the time after. Is that Is that a true statement? Yeah?
I think it's It's a it's a reality that people
are just starting to realize in terms of what is
(22:21):
being collected. UM, I tell people now, listen, your car
is not your your grandfather's car. Your car is now
a computer on wheels. It has centers all over the car.
It's more computers and gigabytes being sent directly to the
car manufacturer. That's just the new technology we're facedook and
and look, technology has its pros and cons I understand,
but at the end of the day, this is a
(22:42):
technology that's not going to go away. It's like a
cell phone at this point. Um, it's just going to
continue to build. And and from our standpoint in the
Massachusetts Right to Repair Coalition, we're really after giving this
information to the owner because we do believe that the
owners should have access and they should control where this
information goes. And think this initiative in Massachusetts that we're
working on, it's just scratching the surface in terms of
(23:04):
what car manufactur is collecting and what they're doing with it. Yeah,
I mean, you buy the car, you should own the car, right,
you're not licensing the car at least not yet. UM.
I agree, Yeah, I think you're right. And if if
you have to, if you have to pay for the
repairs of the car, I think you have to have
choice and without choice, and that's what really Right to
Repair is about your right to choose where to get
your car fixed soon because without that right, we all
(23:26):
know what happens go up. So what's the current state
of the battle, you know, can you give us an
overview of what's going on in Massachusetts? And now you
think it's going so far? Sure, So just to give
a quick overview, we passed the original right to repair
law in UM we passed an un a valid initiative
at it is the highest passing vowed initiative of Massachusetts history.
(23:48):
Uh we joke. You can't get not attend people to
agree on anything like drinking enough water during the day.
But you know when it came to car repaired, choice
mats spoke, Um, they wanted the ability to go to
their local independent hair shops and not have it to
pay the dealerships. We all know dealerships are um can
be a more expensive and a little bit less convenient.
So UM, we passed the right to repair a lot
(24:10):
and there was a car vote in the right to
repair law for any wireless communication system remote diagnostics and
this system that I was just burned too earlier called
telematics and right now in of new cars have this ability,
meaning that the independent repair and car owners are shut
out of this wireless diagnostic repair information, giving the car
manufacturers of monopoly UM on this on this information and
(24:33):
monopoly on the repair market. As we moved to a
wireless society, this bout initiative we give owners direct access
to their diagnostic repairent information and with their authorization, a
car owner authorization allow them to share that with independent
repair or a dealer of their choice. And that's really
what this is about. This is about putting the information
in the owner's hands, being letting them be the gate
(24:54):
key brisk information and u choosing. What they voted for
in two thousand and twelve was to get their car
fricks with they want right and and give people choice
because people need choice. Listen, some people like the dealer,
some people like their guy on the corner. You know,
it's it's isn't that what the country is about, right?
Freedom of choice? I mean, that's what it's supposed to be.
So it makes sense. Has the independent autocare industry been involved,
(25:17):
because I know they do some of these They get
involved in some of this stuff too. Yeah, the autocare
industry is huge. I mean, they the defenders of the
independent repair shops. UM we're a coalition of six hundred
independent repair shops here in Massachusetts. We represent forty thousand
jobs just alone in Massachusetts in the aftermarket. That was
(25:39):
that was all. Next question, how does you know in
Massachusetts alone? Talk about the economy of this and what
would happen if this didn't exist? The idea of right
to repair. Yeah, I think I think you have forty
thou jobs here on the line here in Massachusetts there
in jeopardy if they can't get up to day technology.
We're coalition of people that fixed cars for a little.
(26:00):
If there is a more efficient way of fixing your car,
if there's a new technology to fix your car, we
need access to that. Without that, you go back to
pre two thousand and twelve, presew thousand and twelve, there
was twenty six different car manufacturers giving twenty six different
ways of fixing a car. And honestly, besides withholding information
independent repair shops, they were pricing independent repairs out because
they all had their own tools and their own methods,
(26:21):
their own codes, et cetera. We have two thousand and twelve,
and now we have this new loophole. That's a new system,
a new system of information that is unregulated, closed system,
and it brings us right back to that where the
independent repairs at the mercy of car manufacturers, and we
think that can herently wrong. We want the owners and
the image of that right. And you know I've said
for years and this is sort of what we're talking
(26:42):
about in that if the independent automotive aftermarket didn't exist,
the economy of the country, never mind just Massachusetts wouldn't
exist because it's a it's a it's a multi billion
with a b industry dollar industry um and it's people
have to realize that, you know, we're really voting for freedom,
but you know, the survival of of of the economic
(27:05):
factor that's involved in it too. Hey, Tom, Matt, can
you guys, uh stand by and hold on. Let me
pull over, take a pause, and when we come back, Matt, Tom,
when we come back, Tom or Matt, whichever, I want
to know a little bit about, you know, who's opposing
the ballot question and how the Right to Repair Committee
is working for a response. So you guys ponder that
I'm not a nating in the car doctor. We're gonna
pull over and take a pause and be back right
(27:26):
after this. We are back. Welcome back. We're on Needing
the car Doctor. We're here with Matt food Cult he's
the president gam of Motor rat of America, and Tom Hicky,
he's the director of the Massachusetts Rights Repair Coalition. Gentlemen,
When we pulled away for the pause, the conversation was
leaning towards you know, who's opposing the ballot question of
(27:50):
right to repair and has the right to Repair committee?
You know, are they prepared to respond like, you know,
how is this going to shape out? Do you know
either when you're Tom Matt, somebody go, um, sure so
so so On the other side of the no. On
one side, UM of the right to repair, anitship is
is the car manufacturers. Um. As we stated, this is
(28:13):
worth billions of dollars to them to control the repair market. UM.
When we passed the right to repair let in two
thousand and thirteen, UM, they knew they were moving to this,
this wireless car system. They knew they would find a
way to circumvent this because at the end of the day, Um,
it's all about the bottom on, it's all about profits. Um.
If this does not pass, car manufacturers will have a
monopoly on the on the repair market as we moved
(28:34):
to over the internet, fixes and wireless codes on firewalls,
et cetera that are in cars right now. UM. So
you have your GMS, your forwards, your toyotas, your super ruse,
your niece on um. And and just recently that the
card dealers, your herb chambers. UM. Because look at the
end of the day, if this doesn't pass, there'll be
(28:56):
a lot of business because you're sooner or later your
your only location, you're only destination to get your contracts
will be a dealership. Right. So I guess the question
of if you're successful, you know, how does the first
question was talking about right to repair? How does Massachusetts
right to repair winning the battle? How does that affect
the rest of the country. So, in two thousand and twelve,
(29:20):
Massachusetts was the first in the nation to pass the
rights are a pair of law. We actually created the
moniker which has now been used for such things as
iPhones and computers and household appliances because of how powerful
the movement is then. But understand we were the first
in Massachusetts for the auto right to Repair UM. And
then we signed an MLU in two thousand and thirteen
(29:41):
for forty nine other states to follow this Massachusetts law.
And since I've heard, it's actually gone all the way
to Australia and worldwide. UM. So you know, Massachusetts the
battleground state where a consumer state. UH, and we hope
to have the same impact. I think legislation has been
filed federally in and by state in terms of how
this wireless communications have thematic should be dealt with in cars.
(30:03):
But I don't think there's been a lot of traction
uh in a mass Tchusetts when we passed this. I
think you'll see that the rest of the nation follow on.
And I think it's gonna have a very big impact
from what you're saying. Let me let me go to
Matt for a minute. Matt, Um, you know, depending upon
which way this goes in my in my last couple
of minutes here, how can this issue affect companies like
Motorat for example, that's this This has to be something
(30:26):
you guys are watching very closely. Yeah, I'm concerned about it. Um,
you know, it's it's frightening when you think about the
possibility of a monopoly and what that can do to
a supply chain. And and we sell we were supplying
car manufacturers in the aftermarket. We saw both sides, and
we supply the quality parts, um on both sides of
(30:46):
the fence. And we we supply our products too, you know,
over thirty thousand different distribution points, you know, which feed
a supply chain of hundreds of thousands of shops. And
when you think about so when somebody's car needs to
be repaired, whether it's my wife or um, somebody else's
mother or grandmother. In some parts of the country, they
(31:11):
can't get to a dealership very quickly. Uh, and they
and they need to get their car repaired to get
back on the road, or in some cases the dealership
you might have to wait. They might have a a
one or two week backlog into they can get they
can repair a car. So I think it raises a
lot of concerns. Um, the economics of it all, do
you know, just simply don't work. What it's gonna what
(31:32):
it could do to pricing on a on a product
like ours doesn't work for the consumer. So just the
concentration or isolation of the distribution and supply chain and
U could have detrimental effects. Um, you know, two drivers
to the everyday driver. Because the bottom line is, gentlemen,
there's more than enough cars to go around for everybody.
(31:55):
And we're just trying to you're just trying to make
this easier for the consumer so that they have that choice.
And from a wide range, right from the economy of
how it would affect the company like motorad from you know,
the idea of giving the consumer a choice, a place
to go um out of courtesy, you know. On a
quick aside, my wife's explorer needed a software update for
(32:16):
the air conditioning and the heater controls, and I could
have done it in the shop, but I figured it
was under warrantine. Sometimes you want to go see how
the other half lives, right, You want to see how
how it's gonna work. Is what your customers go through,
you know. So I sent it up to the local
Ford dealer. UM the first time. They had the car
for two weeks for a simple reflesh. What I well,
I shouldn't say simple. No, reflesh seems to be simple.
(32:37):
I shouldn't use those two words together. So they had
the car two weeks and I said, I don't think
it's a reflesh, even though you're telling me to me
this is well, No, we gotta follow procedure. They followed
forward procedure. I'm not knocking forward. They had their procedure.
I get it. I pulled the car out, I went
to the car wash. I came out of the car wash,
it's broken. It did it again, took it back a
second time. They had the car for another two and
(32:59):
a half weeks. My wife lost her car for four
and a half weeks. Doesn't matter. She's got cars to drive,
that's not the issue. But I learned a lot. I
learned how efficient and independence shop can be at times.
And I'm not saying we're all like this, and I'm
not saying all the dealers are like this. I'm just
saying here's one example, and it stresses to me there
(33:19):
has to be a freedom of choice because imagine if
everybody had to go through that for each and every repair.
And Um, we'll we'll, we'll leave the story their comments
for another day. Gentlemen, Where can the listeners go get
more information? Um? Uh, Matt Tom if they if they
want to help this cause, if they want to go
read more about it. Yeah, Um, you can visit our
(33:41):
website at mass writes to repair dot org. We have
a lot of information out. Um. There's a lot of
advertisements on TV if you do live in Massachusetts. Um,
but listen. I think this is an education campaign. I
think a lot of car owners don't know what their
new cars are collecting. I don't think they realize what
that risk. Um, and I think it's important for them
(34:02):
to do their research. Go on our website. You can
google telematics and wireless communications in the car. Look at
just look at what the car manufacturers and car dealers
are giving you in terms of paperwork when you when
you do sign for a new car. Um. But I
urge people to do their research and vote yes on
this campaign because even if you don't live on Massachusetts,
this is this is the beginning of a huge precedent
(34:24):
uh and and getting you know, other states involved in
making sure this is a national effort to defend the
consumer's right to choose to get with to get their
car right. Gentlemen, we'll leave it there, thank you very much.
I'm on naming the car doctor. We are back right
after this. Welcome back. Why don't they of the car
doctor once again? Thank you to met Bo Cults and
(34:45):
Tom Hickey of a Right to Repair and motor red respectively.
You know, the issue will ray John and hopefully it
will stir some fires and make us all aware of
what we need to do in order to well, you know,
freedom of choice, but also to get proper repairs done.
And that's what's at stake here. There's there's a couple
of different soapboxes to stand on, ranging anywhere from freedom
(35:06):
of choice to national security to being able to take
your car where and when you want and don't forget
your data to here they're looking at that. So a
lot to think about, a lot to talk about until
the next time I'm rondinating in the car. Doctor, Thank
you for being here reminding you the mechanics aren't expensive,
they're priceless. See you.
Host
Ron Ananian
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