Best of full interview: Abby Phillip Talks Jesse Jackson, CNN NewsNight, Cam'ron, Trump, Kamala, Cancel Culture + More

The Breakfast Club BEST OF  - Abby Phillip Talks Jesse Jackson, CNN NewsNight, Cam'ron, Trump, Kamala, Cancel Culture , Recorded 2025. Listen For More!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Every day up the Breakfast Club.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Y'all dun yep's the World's most Dangerous Morning to show
to Breakfast Club Charlamagne to God, Jess Hilarious DJ Envy
Envy is out today. But Lauren Loro says, and we
have a very special guest man, the host of my
favorite cable news UH network show, Abby Phillips, is here morning.
I say, Phillips is Philip, Abby Phillip.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
That's okay. Though everybody to everybody puts an ess on it.
It's cool. It does not bother me. My friend says,
it's a sign of respect in our community like Salinas.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
That what people name. Why do we do that?

Speaker 3 (00:42):
It sounds right, it feels right.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
How are you?

Speaker 3 (00:45):
I am good? I'm good. I'm hanging in there.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
New book out, A Dream Deferred Jesse Jackson in the
Fight for Black political power. I'm from South Carolina, so
I completely understand Jesse Jackson, and you know why he
deserves all all the praise. But why did you decide
to write this book?

Speaker 3 (01:03):
I think that there are a lot of people who
have no idea that he ran for president, honestly, and
they don't and if they know that he ran for president.
They probably don't have any idea that he came second
in the Democratic nomination in nineteen eighty eight, so he
was the runner up. And before Obama there was Jesse Jackson.

(01:27):
And I think this chapter really is more important now
than ever. Back in the eighties, I think people didn't
have any way to know that what Jesse Jackson did
really mattered in the long term. But it clearly mattered
because had he not run, Obama wouldn't have been the nominee.
Had he not run, I don't know that you would

(01:47):
have like a Bernie Sanders or an AOC or even
a Zoron Mamdani. I mean, these are people who are
running on basically the same platform that Jesse Jackson ran on,
and he really transformed democratic politics, not to mention registering
millions of voters and putting in place a lot of

(02:07):
the people that you know, people like Donna Brazil, Minon Moore,
and so many others who are leaders in the Democratic Party,
they are all there because of Jesse Jackson.

Speaker 4 (02:17):
What I was going to say in the back of
your book the praises, Yeah, you say, like the first
one talks about how he doesn't how Jesse Deson doesn't
get credit for how influential on American politics as he was.
What credit do you want people to give him after
they read your book?

Speaker 3 (02:31):
Yeah, I mean I think that he he transformed the
structure of the Democratic Party that made it easier for
outsiders to come in and disrupt the system. I think
that's really what his original goal was. When he was
running for president, he was basically saying to the Democratic Party,
you have to take us seriously as black voters, and

(02:53):
not just black voters, but all kinds of other voters.
He brought Arab Americans into the voting process. He insisted
on women being on the ticket. That's why Democrats had
a woman on the ticket in nineteen eighty four. He
insisted on Asian Americans being part of the political process.
So what he was arguing for was a political system

(03:18):
that actually takes everybody seriously. And I do think we're
closer to that now than we were in the eighties,
and he deserves a lot of credit for that. But
I also think, you know, especially younger folks who look
I count myself among them. I was born three weeks
after the eighty eight campaign was over, right, So but

(03:40):
I'm just saying like, this is not about any kind
of judgment about what you know or don't know about
this particular chapter of history. But it's important to know
that Jesse Jackson, like so many other of these leaders
in our history, they had a lot of chapters and
this was a really significant I mean, he ran for

(04:01):
president two times. He almost won the nomination. During one
of these campaigns, he went to Syria and Cuba and
brought prisoners of war back to the United States. I mean,
he was doing a lot of things that if candidates
were doing that today, we would be like, what is
that real? But he doesn't get a lot of credit

(04:23):
for and I think a lot of it is because
it was the first time that so many Americans had
ever seen a black man try to do what he did.
And I think it's important to remember how much of
a you know, just a barrier breaker he was at
that time.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
What was the single biggest myth or misconception you discovered
in your reporting about either of those campaigns that you
wanted to.

Speaker 3 (04:44):
Correct that he was only running as a black candidate
for black voters. I think that's the biggest misconception. He
was obviously very interested, motivated by the desire to make
sure that black people utilize their power, not just cast
a ballot, but had leverage to get changes on the platform,

(05:07):
policy things that mattered to their day to day lives.
But he was also in Missouri with white farmers. He
was also in San Francisco with Asian American activists. That's
why he called it the Rainbow Coalition. I think people
remember him as being the candidate for black people, but

(05:28):
he actually brought, as he said he would, a rainbow
of people into the political process, and he does not
get very much credit for how much appeal he had
among white voters, especially when he ran the second time around.
There's this great picture I have in the book of
him at a rally with a bunch of white farmers

(05:51):
in their overalls and they all have paper bags on
their heads with their eyes cut off because they're trying
to hide their faces from the Feds who were trying
to basically foreclose on their farms. And there's Jesse Jackson
in the background with all of these white people rallying
alongside them. And that's, for me, an iconic photo that

(06:13):
kind of shows that he had the same energy for
our community as he did for all of those other people,
and he was arguing to them, look, we have the
people who are trying to divide us along racial lines,
are trying to make you think that you don't have
as much in common as a working class black person,
and that's a lie. And a lot of people diminish

(06:36):
that part of his campaign because it's easier to sort
of just put him in a box of he was
just a black candidate for black.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
People when we fell short, because you know, you talk
about a lot in the book about the unlikely coalition
he put together.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
Yeah, it seems unlikely back then, but.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
Now it's like the norm, right, exactly the President Obama
did or what BP tried to do.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
I mean all candidates try to do it. Where did
he fall short? Back then?

Speaker 3 (06:56):
You think there were a lot of things that happened.
I think some of them were his own mistakes, and
I write about those in the book. I mean, he
had a very big controversy with the Jewistler. Yeah, he
used a slur against Jews in private and then it
became public and he had a hard time figuring out

(07:17):
how to deal with it and was slow in addressing it,
and that really dogged him, especially for the nineteen eighty
four campaign, but it had an impact on eighty eight two.
I think the other part of it was that he
was a true outsider candidate. He had almost no establishment support.

(07:37):
You know, he was like what Bernie Sanders was in
twenty sixteen, where nobody wanted to touch him among establishment Democrats,
and so it was harder for him to build a
real campaign that had the infrastructure that he needed to
take advantage of the momentum when he did encounter momentum.

(07:57):
But I would say the other thing is that he
was completely he discounted as a candidate. I mean I
went back and I read virtually everything that was written
about Jesse Jackson in those two campaigns, and the way
they talked about him as if he was a gadfly
candidate is you know, they really did not take him
seriously in the media, and back in that time, there

(08:20):
was no way to bypass the mainstream media. And I
do think a lot of times if he were running today,
I mean, he was such a master of the press,
of narrative, of really breaking through, but there was no Internet,
and if he had had that, I think it would
have been a different story because so much of his

(08:41):
message just never got to people.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
That's a lot of the critique he gives to too.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
A lot of people say that he was just an
ambulance chasers to seek publicity, Like you know what, there
is an infamous story about how he wiped Martin's blood
on his shirt.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
I don't know if that is.

Speaker 3 (08:55):
Even that's in the book. Look so read. I mean
you should. That part of his story is and I'm
glad you brought it up. It's important because that is
the double edged sword of Jesse Jackson was that he
was a chaser of attention of cameras. He loved having

(09:16):
a microphone in his face, and it was both a
gift and a curse. He used it extremely well for
decades and decades, and it made him one of the
most famous people in this country for a time. But
at the same time, it rubbed a lot of people
the wrong way, including black people. That yes, but yeah,
in some cases, especially black people were There are a

(09:39):
lot of stories in the book about why all of
these people that he came up with in the civil
rights movement, all these elected political leaders who were you know,
they ran in the same circle. Some of them were
his friends, did not endorse his campaigns, and it was
for a myriad of different reasons. But I do think
that a lot of people were rubbed the wrong way

(10:02):
by his constant attention seeking or it seemed to be
attention seeking. And I think that even while you can
recognize how important he was as a figure, it's like
all of these people, they're all flawed in some really
profound ways, but especially in this particular way. I mean,

(10:24):
any person who runs for president has a massive ego,
has a massive desire for attention, and he fits into
that category like a lot of these other guys.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
I don't mind it, though, because you know, we say
now one of the Democrats' biggest problems is not knowing
how to message. Yeah, not knowing how to communicate, not
knowing how to connect with people. Jesse did not have
that problem. He did not.

Speaker 3 (10:47):
He was a master connector. I mean, he really was,
and I do think he probably got more dogged for
it than he deserved because that skill was so rare
at the time and it's rare now. I mean, he
was a black man in the eighties filling up stadiums
of fifteen twenty thousand people. There are many candidates right

(11:10):
now to this day that absolutely cannot do that, and
he was able to do it because he had charisma,
he could deliver a speech, he could connect with people
who were otherwise not that interested in him as a candidate.
And look, it's a skill, it's a particular gift. And

(11:33):
I think that gift was completely you know, it was
just kind of ignored at the time. And I think
we understand now how rare that is. People like Obama
have it, people like Donald Trump have it, people like
Bernie Sanders have it, but not that many people have it,
and he had it, and at that time it was

(11:53):
just kind of like, well, he's not a serious candidate.

Speaker 5 (11:58):
And the opening of your book, you have a quote
from Theodore Roosevelt right about criticism and.

Speaker 3 (12:05):
The man in the arena.

Speaker 5 (12:06):
Yeah, how do you think social media? Well, young people
growing up in the social media area these days, how
can he learn from a quote as strong as this one.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:15):
I mean the quote speaks to the fact that the
reason I chose it is because I think people often
throw stones at people who are in the arena doing
the work and getting bloodied up and muddied up by

(12:37):
doing the work, because it's really easy to be on
the outside and criticize, But by being in the arena,
you are actually doing the thing, and it's messy and
it doesn't require you to be perfect. And I thought
that was a good quote that kind of describes Jesse Jackson.

(12:58):
I wrote this book, and it paints the full picture
of this man, in all his flaws and all his gifts.
But the one thing you have to say about him
is that he was in the arena. He was there
at all these different junctures. He was involved in nineteen
seventy two at the historic Black Political Convention in Gary, Indiana,

(13:23):
where black people gathered together and asked themselves, how do
we exercise our power? He was there in the eighties,
he was there in the nineties, So he was there
in all these moments. And I think it can be
very easy to criticize those people who seem to be
everywhere a little too much. But being in the arena matters.
Actually getting up off your couch and going and doing

(13:47):
something about what's happening in the world. Is something that
very few people do, and when they do it, we
should learn from them.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
Do you feel that way?

Speaker 2 (13:57):
Being one of the few black women on cable news
with their own show, especially you, because you know, you
have your own ringbow collision that you bring together every
night with all of these different voices. Do you feel
like you get a lot of that, a lot of criticism.

Speaker 3 (14:16):
Look, I want I don't want people to misunderstand this.
I am not at all saying that I am at
the caliber of people like Jesse or anybody else who's
really putting their body on the line to make the
world a better place.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
However, what you do is important.

Speaker 3 (14:32):
But I play a role, like we all have a role,
and this is mine and I and and in a way, yeah,
people are very easy to be like, well, she shouldn't
give this person a platform, she shouldn't do this, she
shouldn't do that. And I do think it's super easy
to say that when you're just at home, like watching
the clips on your phone. And this I've been covering

(14:55):
politics a long time. This is a time in our
like political life, where we have to really know what's
going on, and we have to know what everybody is
saying on all sides of the issue, because I don't
think that ignorance has served anybody well. And particularly I

(15:17):
get a lot of criticism from the left, from people
who are like why does she have maga people on
the show? And it's like, well, you should know what
they are saying, because just so you know, half the
country voted for Trump and for trump Ism, and it's

(15:38):
not helpful to be completely unaware of what is happening
in those media ecosystems. So I personally think it's super
important and I want the debate, like we need to
have that debate. I want it to be right there,
out in the open. And I also think that it's

(16:01):
important for people on both sides to practice being challenged,
because what we've found on the show is that a
lot of people are not used to being challenged, and
when they have somebody literally staring them in the face
saying I disagree with you, for some people, they're like
really taken aback, Like they don't really know how to

(16:23):
deal with that, how to counter it, how to be quick,
how to respond. And I think that is a really
important skill in our politics, that we can go back
and forth on the issues and we can really hash
it out. And I, you know, I'll take the criticism
from all sides, but I am very proud of what

(16:43):
we do because I think that very few people are
willing to do it. Very few people are willing to
take the chance of even being criticized, and I don't
mind it, like that's part of the job.

Speaker 4 (16:56):
What about because I know with your show there's some
moments that are like very hard hitting, right, what about
when that becomes like too much for you? Because I've
seen people step away from those debate style shows because
it personally becomes too much and is triggering for them,
especially for black women. How do you kind of cause
you get back up and do it again the next day? Like,

(17:17):
what is your.

Speaker 3 (17:18):
That's my responsibility. I unfortunately can't step away, but I
understand when people do, and I actually think that is
totally good and healthy. I think it's important to know
your your limits. And you know what, the good news
about me not being able to step away is that
it's my show and I can draw the lines when

(17:40):
I need to draw the lines. And if you watch,
as I know you do, like you've seen the times
when I've had to draw some lines at the table,
And I don't do it that often because I want
it to be not that common because when I do,
it's like when you're you know, really tells you it's

(18:03):
time to stop. That's kind of how I want it
to be, where it's not like that happens all the time.
But you know that when I've reached my limit, it's
the end, that's the limit. And I think that's that
I can because I'm the host. I can draw those
lines around the kind of conduct that I will accept
at the table. And I have control over who shows

(18:26):
up and who doesn't. And so for me, I take
that on the weight of having to show up every
single day. But I don't discount any person saying I
need to take a break. It's need, I need a moment,
because I think that's actually healthy for all of us,

(18:46):
that we we should take care of ourselves and our
own well being even while we try to stay engaged.
And I fully, I fully support that and and I
and I also will say or that I think there
are definitely people who crossed the line, and that's part

(19:08):
of the dynamic that is not within our control. And
and that's okay.

Speaker 1 (19:14):
I mean I think, well, look, I mean the.

Speaker 3 (19:16):
More the most maybe the most famous one was the well,
yeah there was Jillian Michaels, but I you know, you know,
I'll say, honestly, Jillian Michaels crossed the line in the
sense that she said something that was kind of embarrassing
and we addressed it, but we never said to her,
you're not welcome back.

Speaker 1 (19:37):
And I don't think she crossed the line.

Speaker 3 (19:39):
I just think, yeah, that's her. She made a decision
not to want to come back. But yeah, she The
thing about that was that she actually was talking about
something that was important for us for people to be
aware of was actually happening. Because right after she said
what she said about slavery and how it's overemphasized at

(20:03):
museums and the Smithsonian guests who said the same thing
the president. So if you had watched our show a
couple of days before, you would have known what was coming.
And it's not just that she said it, but the
President said it, and then it actually became the policy
that they're trying to implement at the White House. So

(20:23):
I thought it was actually super important that that was
put out there, because I think people were not aware
of the extent to which slavery was the core thing
that they were mad about in terms of how it
was being represented in our museums. So she again, I
think you're right. I don't think that we I just
would describe that as crossing the line, but we addressed

(20:45):
it as an important conversation that needed to be factually addressed.
But there was another incident with a person who was
on the show who said to another guest that a
Muslim guest that their pager would go on to medi
It was a reference to the Israeli they'd like put

(21:07):
bomb materials in pagers of the houthy terrorists and they
went off. And that was an actual line that was crossed,
because you wishing death on a guest on the show
is completely unacceptable. And he was told, and I said
publicly on the show. He was not invited back. And

(21:27):
so there are lines that are crossed, and I think
people understand that I'll draw them when they need to
be drawn, but I also think that we want to
have real conversations. Sometimes they get a little bit messy,
and that's okay, but I also think, you know, disrespecting

(21:47):
people in a way that is inhumane, or you know,
just there are some lines that we don't want to cross,
and we'll draw those lines publicly and I'll let everybody
know what's going on. But for the most part, we're
not We're trying to encourage speech, not trying to squelch it.

Speaker 2 (22:05):
The thing that buzzed me out about your show is
people will say, you know, they'll talk about Scott Jennings
or the Kevin O'Leary's or you know the guy who
said made the comments to Meddi Hussan. But you have
Anna Kasparian on there, and Nina Turner and Teslin Figuero
and Bakari Seller's and Tiffany Cross and Meddi Hassan and
Michael Eric Dyson and Childswell, all of these powerful people

(22:27):
with powerful voices who push.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
Back on all of that nonsense.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
I don't understand why nobody ever highlights that you have
voices on TV that don't get on TV. Tesln figure
is only they only put her own Fox movies, and
it's only on the young Turns neverwork.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
They don't put these people on telephone.

Speaker 3 (22:41):
We look for people to bring on who bring a different,
unique perspective. That's the whole idea, is that people like
Anna and Teslin and others, when we bring them on
the table, it's because we don't we don't want just

(23:01):
like the typical talking head that you hear on television.
Because I also think that what they do is they
represent more people. They represent regular people and how they think.
And one of the things that I love about the show,
because I hear it from people when I go out
into the country, is that they watch and when they

(23:22):
hear something, regardless of what part of the political perspective
they're on, they'll say, yeah, that's what I was thinking.
And I want people to think that that their POV
is their point of view is represented at the table
in some way. And so yeah, we try to find unique, new, interesting, dynamic,

(23:44):
energetic voices, people who are smart, people who can get
in there in the conversation and are not passive. They're
actively listening, they're actively responding, they're thinking on their feet,
they're not just regurgitating talking points. We don't get there
every single day, but that's the goal that we try

(24:04):
to get at. And so yeah, we on both sides
of the aisle, by the way, because we also look
for fresh voices on the right, because I just think
that there's people are tired of the same old, same old,
the kind of talking past each other where you know,
one person is saying one thing and then the other

(24:26):
person is saying another and they're not ever responding to
each other and the ideas that are put on the table,
and we try to move past that because I think
it's not that interesting to be doing that in this
day and age. And what I am also really proud
of is that we get into the actual issues. We're

(24:46):
not just talking about the politics and how it's going
to play with the right and how it's going to
play with the left. I'm going to ask you who
are tariffs really helping and who are they really hurting,
And like we're going to talk about the actual issue,
not just quote unquote how it plays, because I think
that's kind of like a lazy way to approach real

(25:07):
issues that have an impact on people's real lives. Nobody
cares how it plays. They want to know how it's
affecting their actual pocketbook.

Speaker 5 (25:18):
What you had dedicated this book to your daughter and
your two parents. I wanted to ask you a question
you said to my daughter, Naomi, who showed me?

Speaker 1 (25:26):
How?

Speaker 5 (25:26):
How did your daughter show you how? What you mean?

Speaker 3 (25:29):
I never knew how much I could do until I
had my daughter. And I think I know a lot
of mom's parents can relate to that that I was
probably limiting myself before I had her because being a parent,
you're like doing so much every single day, and there's

(25:53):
nothing more motivating than your child. There is nothing that
wakes me up up faster in the morning than my
daughter and knowing that I have to get up and
adam not only to put food on the table and
a roof over her head, but to show her what
it means to work really hard. And I started working

(26:16):
on this book like two months before I found out
that I was pregnant with her. It was kind of
a surprise, yeah, and I was like, oh my god,
what am I going to do? And then the morning
sickness hit and then I was launching a show and
I was like, I don't know if I can do this,

(26:37):
but I did. But I did it. And then when
she was born and I was trying to raise a
newborn as a first time mom and then trying to
work on this book, the thing that kept me going
was that I cannot quit on this for her. And so, yeah,
she showed me how to do the things that I

(27:00):
set out to do, and everything that I start, I
finish because of her. Because that's what we have to
do for our kids, is to like we are showing
them the way and she watches me, and you know,
she knows, like Mommy's going to a speech, Mommy's going
to an event. You know, she like she really she

(27:22):
clocks it. She recognizes everything that I'm doing, and it's
in that brain somewhere. And I know that when ten
years from now she's four, and now ten years from now,
fifteen years from now, that's going to be her normal.
And that's what I want.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
Is expensive, so.

Speaker 3 (27:43):
It's ridiculous out here to raise and educate a child.
So yes, that is so powerful.

Speaker 1 (27:52):
I do love you shed light on that.

Speaker 3 (27:54):
For me, that's really dope.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
Yeah, And I wanted to ask you to write when
you did get the backlash from the Jillian Michael's thing.
There's a lot of people making comments, and social media
is one thing, but when the comments come from people
you actually know, like whether it's other, whether it's prominent writer,
how did that make you feel?

Speaker 3 (28:15):
I think it was disappointing because I I really hope
that we understand how important it is for people to
be free to say things that other people disagree with,
because when the tables turn, we want that ability. And

(28:35):
I also think it does not do us any favors
to pretend like a lot of people don't agree with
Jillian Michaels, and that it's an opportunity for us to
correct the record, educate you, to educate, to inform, to
put facts on the table. And I know, can I

(28:57):
be real, I know black people who agree with Jillian Michaels.
I've heard and not just recently. This is a her
talking point about how slavery existed all in the world,
and we overemphasize it here in the United States. I
have had black people say that to me, you know,
ten years ago, fifteen years ago. So it's not like
this is a new talking point. She didn't invent this

(29:18):
out of nowhere. So it's an opportunity for us to
correct it. And I feel like people who if you
call yourself a journalist, you should never I don't think
we should be in the business of saying it would
be better for us to just not hear the thing
that we disagree with. It is an opportunity for us

(29:38):
to do what we're supposed to do, which is to
actually give people something real to counter it with, gives
people facts to arm themselves with. That is what our
job is as journalists.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
Yeah, all right, Andrew gillim say he never he said this.
When we did it was the night of the election.
Maybe it was a couple weeksly armament, but he was
talking about in reference to your he said, I never
want to be blindsided about what the other side is
thinking ever.

Speaker 1 (30:05):
Again.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
Absolutely, And then I think about that, and I also
think about and think about somebody.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
Think about an eight year old child or a.

Speaker 2 (30:13):
Fifteen year old child that might be just up watching
CNN one night or see that clip go viral. If
there's nobody there to correct that woman Jillian in that moment,
they might believe that too. They might take that information
and run with it. So you need people there to educate.
I don't know why they're upset because you platform both.

Speaker 3 (30:30):
Yeah, I mean, and look, there's a whole As you know,
the media is so fragmented right now. Everybody is consuming
media in their own silence, and a lot of people
on the left, liberals or whatever, they have no idea
what's being said in those conservative ecosystems. And one of

(30:51):
the things that we do is sort of try to
merge those information lanes a little bit more so that
we're actually hearing each other and so that you're not blindsided,
because there's a whole other world that's happening over here
that you don't even know about, and you don't find
out about until people vote, and by that point it's
too late. So there should be more of this happening

(31:15):
where we hear each other. We're able to put fight
fight if information with information, put facts facts against facts,
and have people pick, based on their own judgment, what
makes the most sense. And I trust people enough to
do that. I have enough respect for other human beings

(31:40):
that they can make decisions on their own. But I
do think that it requires that we really understand what
we're even talking about, and so I don't you know,
I mean, look, it is a disappointing, yes, But I
also think that many of the people who criticize what
we do spend a lot of time just talking to
other people who agree with them. And that's a choice,

(32:01):
but it's not a choice that I'm making. And I
think actually a lot of people want to know, They
actually do want to know.

Speaker 4 (32:11):
How do you feel when people say that CNN is
a network that just does what you just said you
don't want to do, Like your show is different because
you bring on these different voices but I've even seen
people say that they feel like sometimes the other voices
that are brought on are kind of brought on just
because they have to be there, not because like anybody
truly wants them there because CNN is known to be
or people think CNN always leans one way.

Speaker 3 (32:31):
How do you feel about that it does? Well, mean, yeah,
and it's your network, so yeah, I mean, well, look,
I would say it's fair to say that that CNN
we're not Fox News, but we're also not MSNBC. We're true,
we're probably center left, and I think that has a
lot to do with our audience, but we watch when

(32:54):
you actually watch CNN, we have Republicans on every hour
of the day, every single one, I'm pretty sure, maybe
with very few exceptions, but virtually every hour of the day.
So they're not always on in the context that we
put them on. But we as a network have a

(33:17):
diversity of viewpoints on the air, more so than our competitors.
And so, I mean, liberal media is a criticism that
I think we hear a lot, but there's also way
more liberal media and way more conservative media, and so

(33:37):
I don't I don't know, I don't put that much
stock in it. I think it's I think it's it's
a little bit a reflection of the cable news audience.
But I also think that there are extremes on both sides,
and we're not in the extreme, I.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
Think, real quick long.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
I think another thing is that y'all show conservatives who
aren't necessarily maga like the se Cups of the world
that Adam Kinsinger there is a range.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
Week I believed, well, no, no, not Yeah, he's on MSNEMAC.
But there's there is a range to your point, and
it's not just you know, there are mega conservatives. There
are people like se and Melissa Fara who are sort
of somewhat anti Trump Republicans. We have libertarian people, we
have progressives, we have just establishment Democrats. There is a

(34:27):
range of political views and we tried to have them
represented in one way, shape or form. We have people
who I cannot put them in a box. I don't like,
I don't know how to describe their political views. We
bring those people on, but we also bring on people
who are just not you know. We have Roywood Junior

(34:50):
on all the time. We have Wendell Pierce comes on,
like we bring on people who are peers Yes, just
people who are just insightful and smart, and you know,
they're just interesting and they bring depth to the conversation
and they put things on the table that regular that
like the classic New York and DC types don't put

(35:12):
on the table. And so I think that we are
so much more multi dimensional than left and right, than
Democrat and Republican, and that should be better reflected. And
who talks on television?

Speaker 4 (35:26):
H you brought up a this was like a I
think it was like a few weeks ago you were
talking about cancel culture, and I saw people reacting to
this too. You said that liberals need to take more
honest for where cancel culture went wrong, and this was
after Kimmel was pulled from air. Yeah, there's been a
lot of conversation about if cancel culture is even a
real thing at this point. Yeah, but where do you

(35:46):
think the liberals went wrong with cancel culture? I think
that there were some specific moments, you know, not just
around race, by the way, but even around you know,
around COVID, around all other things where whatever, Yeah, whatever

(36:07):
you want to call it. I I'm not endorsing any
viewpoints that are right or wrong, but I think it's
asking the question should people be forced out of their
jobs or you know, should the should the weight of
sort of public opinion force people out of their livelihoods

(36:30):
because of things that they say, maybe because of mistakes
that they make.

Speaker 3 (36:33):
I think it is just a fair conversation to have, because,
as we saw when Charlie Kirk was assassinated, you had
people making comments on Facebook about how they didn't like
what he said and then losing their jobs over it.
The government pulled people's visas and revoked their citizenship over

(37:02):
comments like that, and I just think globally, look, I
think one of the criticisms of me making that point
was that even long before this, there was cancel culture
in the eighties and the nineties, and I think that's
one hundred percent true. But shouldn't we evolve to a
point where we don't do this kind of thing anymore,

(37:22):
where we think really hard about what is the bar
for us to say you should be run out of
society for something that you said, for an opinion that
you have. And I think that's a fair question to ask. Look,
I don't think we should be operating based on what

(37:44):
was done to us in the past, because I think
if we do that. We're just it's like a ball
rolling down a hill. We're only going to dig ourselves
deeper and deeper into a hole that we cannot get
out of. And I think every single one of you
would want to be able to say I disagree with X,
Y and Z person and not lose your job over it. Absolutely,
So that's the only point I was making that the

(38:08):
principle here is not that we want to be able
to do what they did to us. The principle is
that people ought to be allowed to say things that
other people disagree with without risking losing their livelihood and
their jobs over an opinion or even a mistake. That
sometimes people make mistakes, they say things that they regret,

(38:33):
and people should be allowed to make mistakes and atone
for them without their lives being completely ruined forever. I
think we would want that for us, and I think
we would want that for people we disagree with.

Speaker 5 (38:46):
My last question is, going back to your book, is
there a politician that you see today right that you
would say as a reflection of Jesse Jackson's legacy.

Speaker 3 (38:58):
You know, what I would say is that there are
there are several politicians that are influenced by Jesse Jackson,
but none of them have so far proven that they
can actually do what he thought out to do and
be successful at it. So I would say that, you know,

(39:20):
Bernie Sanders is a Jacksonian politician in the way that
he talks about economic issues. AOC is like the next
level of that she brings in the sort of social
justice piece that I think is lower on the list
of priorities for someone like Bernie Sanders. And I think

(39:41):
so I think that there are there's sort of like
this new generation of populist politician who are talking about
issues in the way that he did, basically arguing to
voters that the system isn't set up for you, that
it's not you know, it's sort of like this idea
that as working people, the system is set up for

(40:05):
the rich and the powerful and the corporations. That's the
type of message of Jesse Jackson hatt and you hear
that in a lot of other politicians. But to me,
the thing that's been missing from so many of them
is being able to bring together the diverse coalition. Because
if you're a Democrat and you're trying to run for
a national office and you can't rally black people and

(40:27):
Hispanic people and Asian Americans and like the whole coalition
you're going to fail. You're going to fail. And that's
where Bernie Sanders went wrong, is that he never really
was able to get people of color on board. He
had the economic piece, but he didn't have the other piece.
And so I think the book kind of has a
question mark at the end of it because it's a

(40:48):
real question are there any politicians who can do both
of those things at the same time, Because that's what's
required in order to build a true coalition in the
Democrat In today's Democratic Party, you can't have one without
the other. You can't have the economic piece without the other,
and so it's I think it's an open question who's
going to be able to do that.

Speaker 5 (41:08):
Are you doing an audio version?

Speaker 3 (41:11):
Yes, I did it. I did it, and it'll be
available for people like me who don't have time to
carry around a book.

Speaker 5 (41:18):
Just love to hear you speak because your voice has
a calmness to it that would be great for me
to learn all of this stuff, you know what I'm saying,
like a lot of stuff that I don't know, Like, yeah,
your voice is really calling.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
Thank you, thank you did get what school did you
go to and everything? And did you always want to be,
you know, doing what you're doing.

Speaker 3 (41:36):
I went to Harvard or whatever I went. But look,
I I grew up in Booie, Maryland. Okay, I'm a
PG girl, and I went to Bowie High School. I
just I was a real nerd. I worked really hard
and I got into Harvard and that really changed my life.

(41:58):
But the reason I ended up as a journalists is because,
first of all, I always loved politics, but I didn't
know I didn't want to be in politics. I don't
like to be honest, I don't like politicians, but I
love current events. I love history, I love government. And
when I was in college, I went on a civil
rights and service tour to We started in Memphis at

(42:19):
the Lorraine Motel. We went to Mississippi, and we traveled
around to all these different sites and I blogged about it,
and it was like a bug like I was so
convinced by the power of the people who were journalists
at that time and took the things that were happening
in these tiny towns and brought it to the entire

(42:41):
country and really helped change the trajectory of civil rights
in the country, and I really identified with that, and
I identified with the power of being there to tell history,
and that changed everything for me. And at that point
I decided that I wanted to be in journalism, and
I decided to pursue it. And I got kind of

(43:04):
lucky that my first job was at kind of a
startup Politico, which now is not a startup anymore, but
at the time it was, and I was their very
first class of interns, and they just kind of let
me do whatever and gave me an extraordinary amount of opportunity.
They hired me after college. I was covering the Obama

(43:27):
White House. I have a late birthday, so I was
twenty one when I was out there, literally at the
White House in the briefing room, and so they gave
me an incredible opportunity to dive right into national politics.
And I've been doing it ever since. And the medium
has changed. I've gone from print to television, but you know,

(43:51):
I've covered two presidents, I've covered several presidential campaigns. I've
done a lot in politics, and I think it's all
culminated to this moment where I have an opportunity to
help people, not just tell people what is happening, but
help them understand it, because I think that people are
over they're oversaturated with just all the stuff that's happening,

(44:15):
and they need a lot of help just understanding what
really matters, what should break through to them. And that's
what I get to do in my job right now.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
I've heard people say things like, you know, you're the
future of CNN, but you know, how do you handle
being labeled at when legacy media itself is kind of
like fighting to stay relevant.

Speaker 3 (44:34):
Yes, we are fighting for our lives out there. I mean, look,
I think in the media, everybody is fighting for attention.
It doesn't matter what medium you're in, and so we're
in that. We're in that fight alongside everybody else. But
television isn't really going anywhere. It's just that we have
to evolve with people. We have to meet them where

(44:57):
they are and both the method that we talk to people,
but also the content. And I'm really grateful that we
about a year ago, a little over a year ago
is when we started to do my show this way,
and I'm really kind of grateful that we did because
it really speaks to what people are looking for, which

(45:20):
I know you talk about a lot Charlemagne, which is
they're looking for more authenticity and media, and I think
legacy linear media has been very slow to that because
they don't want to sacrifice being authoritative for being relatable.
But I think that there's a way to do both,
and there's a way to kind of give people information

(45:42):
while also speaking to them in a way that they
understand and leveling with them and identifying with them, or
putting people on TV who they identify with. And so
the innovation is happening, and CNN is going to be
streaming soon, so people who don't even have cable are

(46:03):
going to be able to literally just open up their
app and pay a small monthly fee and you can
watch it. And that's the future. And we're on Instagram
and you know, these our clips go crazy viral because
that's how people are consuming information. I mean, I wish
they watched the whole show, but I also appreciate that

(46:26):
people who don't even watch TV are seeing what happens
on the show because cable TV still remains incredibly relevant.
That to me tells me what the relevance is. People
may not be turning on their TV every night at
the same time, but the clips are getting millions of
use because they still think it's important when they see

(46:47):
something with a CNN logo on it, that there's some
authoritativeness there. So we still have that responsibility, but where
we have to evolve, just like everybody else does.

Speaker 4 (46:58):
What media changing, and it's now because media is changing
politicians and politics is changing as well to in the
way that people speak to people. Kamala Hair said to
BBC that she possibly may run again because I know
you were also very honest about what she did and
do right and what you thought she did do right
when she ran. If she was to run again, like,

(47:18):
where does she meet in the middle with that? Because
I think that's one of the things that fell off
with her last campaign, is that that was happening with media,
but she didn't meet us where some people were at
and speak straight to certain people. So what does she
do this summer run and shoes she even run again?

Speaker 3 (47:31):
You know, I've been talking to a lot of people
about that because, as you know, this book was very controversial,
and it was even more controversial than you think in private.
In private, I think there's a lot of controversy around
it because I think that there are a lot of
bridges that are burned here, whether she wanted to or not,

(47:52):
And I think it will be very difficult for her
to mend those fences that she'll need in order to
run if she just decided to run again. I think
this book read kind of like somebody who was kind
of done with it. So I will be interested to
see if she decides to do it. But one thing

(48:15):
I'll say, I mean, I think that she still has
to figure out how to tap into authenticity in how
she presents herself to the public, because this world is
not getting more kind to politicians who cannot level with

(48:37):
voters and cannot show up any and everywhere. And you
know my Fred Astead Herndon, who just left The New
York Times but he's going to be at Vox. He
just wrote a piece about zoron Mum Donnie, and he
had this line that I think a lot of people quoted.
That was about how politicians have to be able to
talk in thirty second bites, in three minute clips, and

(48:59):
in three hour interviews, and that's the future. You have
to be able to do it all. You have to
be able to show up in any medium and people
get in a second who you are. And what you're about.
And I think that she still has work to do
in that respect, and maybe this book is the first
kind of foray into that, because I read her last

(49:22):
book and the tone was completely different. This is a
different kind of book, and it was an opening foray
into her showing people more of herself. But she's going
to have to catch up to the speed and the
kind of realness of media and politics. That will be

(49:46):
the bar in twenty twenty eight. Like in twenty twenty eight,
the bar is going to be are you a politician
that can show up any and everywhere and authentically reach people?
And I think she is still straddling the old world
and the new world, and she's gonna have to figure
out which one she wants to be in.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
I agree with that.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
I think it's actually more important just to show up
any and everywhere as your true, authentic self. I don't
think you should worry about whether or not this is
gonna be a thirty second sound bite or a three
minute clip or three. I'll just go have the conversation
because the media is gonna do that for you. The
meeting is gonna chop it up for you.

Speaker 3 (50:21):
Yes, but yes, but I also think, Look, I mean
I am I'm a journalist, so I deal with her
campaign and all of that. And I'm telling you the
answer is not yes to everything in terms of where
she's willing to show up. And some of that is
maybe staff and how they try to kind of protect

(50:43):
their principle. But in the future, you have to be
willing to talk to any and everyone. You have to
be willing to take risks. You have to be willing
to sit in front of people who might very well
be hostile to you and win them over. And I
think that and you might, yeah, well, what exactly, And
I'm just telling you it's that was not how they

(51:04):
ran that last campaign period. It wasn't and they're going
to have to She's going to have to be willing
to do that, which is gonna it's it's going to
require taking a lot of risk. But that is the
future of politicians. The ones who will thrive in tomorrow's
media environment. They they you got to be willing to

(51:26):
go everywhere on a dime, prepared or not briefed or not.
That is how it works, and that's not how they
ran in twenty twenty four. And if she's going to
run again, it's going to have to be a complete overhaul.
And she's strategy like.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
Don't wait, don't and just for all of them, don't
wait until it's actual twenty seven, not do it now,
Like start going to these places now. And I think
that a lot of them should be launching their own platforms.
They should have their own podcast.

Speaker 3 (51:59):
Gavin Newsom, Yeah, I mean, and look, I mean, you
say what you want about Gavin Newsom, this is what
I'm talking about. He had this podcast and he was
bringing on all these conservatives on and he got a
lot of criticism for it. But I think what he
was trying to show was a willingness to talk to

(52:20):
anybody and to debate anybody. And again, I think there's
a lot of that that's going to be required in
the future. You've got to prove to people that you
can win the argument. And if you can't do that,
it doesn't matter how polished you are, how experienced or
knowledgeable you are. I think that's the baseline bar that

(52:43):
you're going to have to cross for a lot of
voters in this future media ecosystem.

Speaker 1 (52:48):
No, I agree.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
You know. The interesting thing that the VP is doing.
I think the book tour. I think this book is
going to help her a lot. Yea, because it's the
first step to being completely honest and then going on
to book tour, but also going into these cities and
talking to you know, locals when you're in these cities.
I think that's gonna go a long way.

Speaker 3 (53:04):
Yeah, but it's always important to do that.

Speaker 2 (53:06):
But none of these candidates are going to really stand
a chance in hell if none of them were really
willing to challenge capitalism.

Speaker 3 (53:12):
Well, well, you know, I mean there's some truth there, Okay.
The part of that that I would say is true
is that when you look at what Trump is doing
as president, in a way he's challenging capitalism. He's putting
tariffs on countries indiscriminately just because he wants to, making

(53:37):
the case that he's doing it for Americans. He is
taking government stakes in private companies. That's a Bernie Sanders idea.
By the way, he is creating a government website where
people can shop around for prescription drugs, another Bernie Sanders idea.

(53:58):
So his willingness to just take some of these ideas
the Democrats have been talking about and just do them,
no matter how controversial they are, has been one of
the things that whether you like him or not, what
people will say about Trump is that he does what
he says. And I think the Democrats one of the

(54:20):
big problems that they have is that voters don't think
they're going to do what they say. They say all
the right things, but they don't think they're going to
do what they say. And so whether it's challenging you
can call it challenging capitalism or challenging whatever, voters want
to know that you're willing to buck the system for them,

(54:40):
and I think Trump does that right now in a
way that really like shakes people up and makes people
really mad. But that is also why a lot of voters,
whether they like him or not, they will describe him
as effective.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
I wonder how it all because it's like he's bucking
the system, but it has only been fit in the
rich right now, and it's not even benefiting his voters.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
I wont to why.

Speaker 3 (55:03):
And even you know, look the tariff thing. He he's
making the case to Americans that this is a benefit
to them, but the economics don't work, No, they don't
make sense. Farmers would beg to differ right at this moment.
They are struggling mightily under these tariffs. Small businesses are

(55:25):
struggling mightily under these terraffs. So there is obviously a
really big difference between what Trump is doing and what
he's saying and what is actually happening. But I do
think that it's breaking through and I and my only
point about that was just there's a Democrats have become

(55:46):
way more establishment in the last fifteen years because Trump
is so anti establishment. They've defined themselves in opposition to Trump,
and so they've become sort of an avatar of the system.
And I don't think they realize the degree to which
voters do not like the system at all. And the
next Democratic nominee is going to have to be able

(56:09):
to tap into that one way or another, to say
to people, I get it, you don't actually like the
way things are work working, Stop defending this status quo
and figure out what an alternative is that isn't just
opposition to Trump. And do I see anybody actually doing

(56:30):
that right now? Not really, But look, time will tell,
Like we've got a long way ahead, and any if
history tells us anything, sometimes the person who ends up
rising to the top is not the person that any
of us are thinking about or talking about it. It's
somebody who's going to come seemingly out of nowhere, but

(56:50):
not going to come from the center of the political
universe right now.

Speaker 4 (56:55):
So we'll see if to your point of everything you
just said, right, if Jesse accent right was able to
actually become president president, get in office just do things
for people that he cared about, how would Barack Obama's
presidency have been different. Kamala Harris just on this run
feeling like she has to dodge certain things and can't
speak straight to black people. How would all of that

(57:16):
be different if he had been able to get in
office and do what he was doing before he was
voted president or not voted.

Speaker 3 (57:21):
But that's really interesting. It's such an interesting question. I mean,
I think one of the reasons that Vice President Harris
and Barack Obama have had to present a certain way
to the American public is the perception that a broad
swath of the electorate, especially white voters, won't take a

(57:44):
black candidate seriously unless they are very buttoned up, have
the resume all lined up, the whole thing. And that's accurate,
right that, Like we all understand that you kind of
have to clear a higher bar in order to even
be let in the door. And I do wonder if
the country had successfully elected a black president who was

(58:07):
running on a progressive platform thirty years ago, whether they
would have that same burden. And I don't know, maybe
they would not have. You know, one of the things
about Jesse Jackson is that his fluency in a wide
range of issues. As somebody who never was elected to

(58:31):
political office, who came out of the segregated South, who
came out of a civil rights tradition, he was right
up there with all the other candidates on the debate
stage talking about foreign policy, talking about economic policy, giving speeches.
I mean I would talk to people who would say

(58:52):
that they would give him, you know, like a thirty
minute briefing, and he would go in there and he
would weave a whole speech around an issue. He could
take information in and very quickly turn it around into
something that was compelling to an audience. And so he
had a kind of intellect that was not very respected

(59:14):
at the time. And I do think that, you know,
if the country had elected a black president, I think
candidates today who are running who are like Kamala Harris
or Barack Obama would not have to would not have
to do so much to show white Americans in particular

(59:35):
that they're qualified and that they have the basic, you know,
qualifications to fit the job. I think that added burden
is one of the reasons that it's hard then to
turn around and say to those same candidates, well, you've
got to be authentic, because that same authenticity is what

(59:55):
they get knocked for early on in their career. So
it is I'm not say suggesting that it's easy. I
think it is difficult. You have to be able to
do both things. And actually I would say Obama actually
did both things pretty well. He was incredibly credentialed, but
he was incredibly authentic in the communities where he needed
to be authentic in And I do think that it

(01:00:16):
is possible to do it, but it is absolutely a
higher bar, and it's a higher bar still to this day,
because we've only done it once elected a black person
to the highest office in the land, and so there's
still a lot that has to be dealt with in
terms of people's preconceived notions of what people of color
can do at high levels of political office.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
My last question.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
When Cameron took a sip of pink Horsepower on your show,
like you just took a sip with that.

Speaker 3 (01:00:45):
Is there something known in the industry about how did
he treated his artists? Sorry, I'm going to get some
cheeks after this horse Powers joint.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
And you were going to And then when Cam said
he was going to get some cheeks after your interview,
did you understand what was happening in that moment?

Speaker 3 (01:01:06):
I knew that we needed to end the interview. Obviously,
I knew we needed to end the interview. We were
up against the end of the show, and we didn't.
We had to get to a certain time, so you know,
I had to land that plane and I did. And look,

(01:01:28):
I mean it was ridiculous, but as we know, that
was the point.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
So the person who had to transcribe the show afterwards
ask you what that meant?

Speaker 3 (01:01:38):
What do you need to get some Well we all
were just like, what just happened? Yeah, you know, I mean, whatever,
it's I'm not going to give this much more oxygen
because I know that's part of the point. I know
he was here a little while ago talking about it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
Let me ask you, because what was your favorite viral
news network moment? Was it the sixty minutes joint. Was
it the bill O'Reilly or the seeingn drinking pink?

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
Seeing that.

Speaker 3 (01:02:05):
By far, I'm sure he did before. It wasn't like
it wasn't personal anything with you.

Speaker 4 (01:02:11):
He just felt like the network only hits him up
for things that aren't about what he does outside of.

Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
All I will say is that we were told by
his team that he wanted to talk about this, not
the other way around. So that's we Obviously, we don't
book people about things they don't want to talk about,
So we would never bring someone on the show and
force them to talk about something that they didn't agree
to talk about.

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
So I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:02:37):
I mean, everybody we have free will. We can do
what we want. But like I said, I knew immediately.
Actually we we knew pretty early on in the interview
that we needed to get out as as.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:02:53):
It was, I mean, it was from the from the
get go. Yeah, I'm not new to this, Like I know,
from the beginning, when somebody is not interested in being
and being interviewed, and so we knew we needed to
get out. But it was just a timing thing, you know,
when you're at the end of the show. And he

(01:03:14):
was actually supposed to be on the show earlier but
was late, and so we we we're just figuring out
how quickly we could hand off to Laura Coates at
eleven o'clock.

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
That put you in a good class. So Cam's got
some really good interviews with news and.

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
He got some great moments.

Speaker 3 (01:03:36):
Will get said on the playlist somewhere. Absolutely absolutely not,
we are not. That is not a class.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
And I think you said I want to be, he
said was his favorite.

Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
I asked him which one was the and is a
Cooper sixty minutes interview the bill O'Reilly?

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
When he was like you mad you met film? He
said yes, because you horse power.

Speaker 3 (01:03:56):
I'm happy for I'm happy for him.

Speaker 4 (01:04:03):
But you know, stuff like that personally when it happens. No,
absolutely not not personally, but just like why you why
my show?

Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
I you know what, let me just I'll just say
this because I don't I've never talked I've actually never
talked about this before. But when that happened, our booker
who booked that interview was a young woman and she
was very upset about it. And I said to her afterwards,

(01:04:38):
and I said to my entire team, I was like,
this is not going to be a reason that we
play it safe. We are not going to take this
as a moment to say, oh, this happened to us,
we can't have people like that on our air. Again.
I don't believe in that. I think that we are.
We are out here trying to you hear from people

(01:05:02):
who are interesting and different, and maybe sometimes it goes left,
but I'm not gonna this is We're not gonna come
down on you for booking this interview because we want
to bring interesting people onto the show and it was
important to me to convey to them that we're not
gonna go into a little ball and be like, oh

(01:05:23):
my god, this went viral and this was embarrassing. No,
this too shall pass. Like he had his moment, it
was fine. I don't really care.

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
I do.

Speaker 3 (01:05:36):
I wish he didn't do that on the air yet.
But but I'm not using it as an excuse to
say that we're going to play it safe on television,
because that's not what we're doing here.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
So book a fantastic job, fantastic booking what's her name, fantastic.

Speaker 3 (01:05:54):
Book every night she was Unfortunately she moved to a
different city, so she's no longer with us, but yeah,
but we listen. We I it wasn't just her. I
told her boss too, and I was like, we are not.
We are not going to treat this like some kind
of major mistake, because it was not. It is television,

(01:06:17):
and sometimes in television you have guests and you don't
know what they're going to say, and the whole point
of TV is not to be predictable and boring. So
let's not do that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
I thoroughly enjoy your bookings. I thoroughly enjoy your show.

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
Make sure y'all watch Abby Phillip on CNN News Night
every night at ten and then this Table for five
comes on at ten.

Speaker 3 (01:06:37):
Am on Saturday Saurdays. And don't forget to buy.

Speaker 2 (01:06:40):
The book Yes I dreamed of is out right now
Jesse Jackson in the Fight for Black Political Power, Abby Philip,
keep doing a great service.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
Though.

Speaker 3 (01:06:48):
Thank you guys having me come on the show sometime.
All of you really, yeah, I know you have I
know you have some political viewpoint. You know what I'm
saying stuff, Even Take for five, I know it's I
know it's late at night, so Table for five you
can come on. It's a different time, so it's more
earlier for your schedule.

Speaker 4 (01:07:08):
Yes, you'p going there, argue for us, we'll be supporting.

Speaker 1 (01:07:11):
I enjoy watching. It's Abby, Philip. It's the breakfast Club.

Speaker 3 (01:07:14):
Hold on every day I wake up the Breakfast Club.

Speaker 1 (01:07:19):
You'll finish for y'all done,