INTERVIEW: Cynthia Kaye McWilliams Talks 'Average Joe' Season 2, 'Messy Love,' CynCity Productions, Navigating Today's Media Landscape + More

Today on The Breakfast Club, Cynthia Kaye McWilliams Talks 'Average Joe' Season 2, 'Messy Love,' CynCity Productions, Navigating Today's Media Landscape. Listen For more!

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BreakfastClubPower1051FM

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hold up.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
Every day I wake up.

Speaker 3 (00:03):
Wake your ass up. The Breakfast Club. Y'all finished or
y'all done? Yep, it's the world's most dangerous morning show,
The Breakfast Club.

Speaker 4 (00:09):
DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha God, Lauren LaRosa is
here as well.

Speaker 3 (00:12):
And we got a special guest in the building. Yes,
we do. From Average Joe, Cynthia K. McWilliams is here.
Good morning.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Good morning.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
How are you?

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Very good to be here. I'm wonderful. Blessed and highly favored.

Speaker 3 (00:21):
So glad to be here. Blessed, black and highly favored.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Yes. Black and highly favored.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
Ain't that right?

Speaker 3 (00:25):
Hey, beautiful.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Lightly melanated, but hella black.

Speaker 4 (00:27):
Right.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
Thank you. Who is Cynthia K. McWilliams for those who
don't know?

Speaker 2 (00:33):
First and foremost, I'm a storyteller more than anything. I'm
an artist. I am right now the comedic actress who
plays on Average Joe opposite of the incredible Dion Cole.
My amazing partner Malcolm Barrett who plays my husband on
the show. And also Michael Trucco and an incredible group
of people that I think have made some really dynamic

(00:54):
television that's streaming on Paramount Plus right now. I'm also
an executive producer and the creator of.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
Messy Lola.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
Yes, of Messy Lola. Yes.

Speaker 4 (01:04):
You've been working for a long time. I feel like
you've been at least a couple of decades.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
Indeed. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
Don't tell them all my... Why you got to say
a couple of decades? Yeah, I know.

Speaker 3 (01:16):
Prison break.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:18):
Real Husbands of Hollywood. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
What else?

Speaker 2 (01:21):
Nashville, Bosch, the last days of Ptolemy Gray. Yeah, man,
it's been a lot of things. And I feel like,
you know, that is, it's tough, you know, because you'd
be in the industry for a good couple of decades.
But people can still very much not know who you are,
you know, because really it's so much going on. I mean,
when I was coming up, we really did have like,
you know, your main networks that people watch. Now it's

(01:43):
all of the TV networks have kind of disappeared and
streaming has taken over. But there's just so much going on,
it's hard to really even shoot as a viewer. I
can't keep up with all the shows that I love.
And so I just know that what I really try
to remember is that, look, it's a lot of people
who still aren't going to know me. I'm definitely this
kind of famous. I'm like, hey, you that girl from

(02:05):
the show.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
That's what I am.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
It's this.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
It's always this.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
No, don't tell me.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
Don't tell me.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
Don't tell me.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
Don't tell me.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
It's this. And you really don't tell them and then
they still trying to... And you'll be staring at them like, no, please,
I want you to figure it out. No, I know that.
And I think that the thing is, is because I
do this because I'm a storyteller and not because my
goal was ever to be famous. That's a-okay with me.
Like if I spend the rest of my career without
being like household name famous... I might not be somebody

(02:35):
that as soon as you say Cynthia K. McWilliams, you
know who that is. But I know that if you've
watched the things that I've done or if you've been
in the room with me, that I've made an impact.
And so I really that's really who I am is
somebody who wants to leave rooms better than they found them.

Speaker 4 (02:50):
But you definitely had a successful career.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
So thank you.

Speaker 4 (02:53):
So what's the difference between having a successful career and
I guess actually becoming a quote unquote star?

Speaker 2 (03:00):
Honestly, I think being a star has nothing to do
with success unless that's how you define success. But to me,
having a successful career It's about first and foremost, just
having the audacity to do it. You know, like really
like every one of us at one point were kids
thinking about doing things that seemed unimaginable. Like that's it.

(03:22):
Like at the end of the day, I look around
the room and I'm like, these are people that I
have watched become who they are to the rest of America.
But you were always who you were, you know? And
so I think what's so dope about being successful in
a career like this is just the audacity to dream it.
And then the consistency and commitment and discipline to yourself

(03:45):
to keep living it out. That's success. And then for
anybody along the way who sees it, who recognize it,
who's touched by it, who's inspired by it, that's the
real success. I think all the time about people who
I grew up with in Kansas City or people that
really never thought they could just because I'm doing it.

(04:06):
You know what I mean? Again, star or not. Because
I'm doing it, it gives them the permission and the
belief that they can too, you know? Have you always
had that attitude about your success and where you are now?
Because like real storytellers, you're like, people need to get this.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
And sometimes when people don't get it, it's like, I
know you're sensitive about your art. So has that always
been your mantra? I guess, yeah, definitely. I've definitely always
been that way because, again, if it's about the story,
if that's really what matters, and there's so many different ones, right?
I also am from the theater. So, you know, that's
one audience at a time, right? Like, it's a very
different world. Like, in the theater, you're literally, it's so present.

(04:43):
It demands you to just be there, and the only
goal that night is literally to just be present, be honest,
moment to moment, line to line, I'm there. I'm just here.
I can't do anything about how the audience is going
to receive it at the end of the show. I
can't do anything about what the reviews are going to say. Like,
that is the world that I really was trained in.
And that's about literally just in every moment, I need

(05:03):
to be listening. I need to be open. I need
to be able to be ready for whatever the next
moment is. So I guess that's really how I just
still perform, period. Whether there's a camera around or not,
I'm very much like.
I am interested in the truth of this moment and
living the most, whatever that thing demands of me as

(05:24):
an actor, living the most joy or the most authenticity,
the most pain, whatever, in a true moment. Like, that's
really it. And if I'm, I don't know, I just
feel like, yeah, that for me is the best thing
about being an actor. I think so many people now
think of being an actor as being a star. But
for me, the best thing about being an actor is
that it is the art itself. of understanding yourself and

(05:47):
humanity at the same time.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
But your inspiration comes from your theater, right, DePaul?

Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yes, DePaul University.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
So you're a theater kid, you grew up reading all
these books.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
I sure did.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
Grabbing all these images.

Speaker 2 (05:56):
I literally was a librarian.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yeah, that's a different.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
Type of motivation.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
I wouldn't say a librarian.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
I worked in the library. Like I had some sort
of degree in it. No, I worked in a library
when I was young. And I literally did. I worked
in the library. I stacked books, you know? So I
know like the Dewey Decimal System. Like I was in
the 811.5, 812 that was like poetry and prose and theater.
And I was in there reading plays. Like literally what
you just said, I was reading those books. Do you

(06:23):
think that the motivations now, like how some people are
motivated by like social media and having following or whatever,
does that change the way that the artwork is looked
at or talked about? Oh, of course. I mean, you know,
everything is changing. I mean, this is just a drastically
changing media landscape every day. So, of course, it changes things.
social media didn't exist when I was entering into this industry.

(06:44):
And I think about all of the women before me,
you know, they're, um, you know, the great Cicely Tyson,
like you think about what motivated people before there's always
been the motivation to tell the stories. But of course,
what now is the incentive is, um, recognition and money, right?
Those are, those are now the things I think that
draw people to the field more is they want to feel, um, yeah, acknowledged. Uh, but,

(07:10):
In a way, right, I still think about that as, yes,
we want the likes, we want the money, but really
that all still ties to, right.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
Don't it?

Speaker 2 (07:18):
That what you want is to be seen. So it's
still the same thing. I think every storyteller was still
trying to make sure that unseen people are seen, you know?

Speaker 4 (07:28):
You know, it's interesting what you said about social media,
because I think about all.

Speaker 3 (07:31):
Of those women that you named, right?

Speaker 4 (07:33):
Like everybody that, really just any woman that came before
social media. I feel like just human beings were able to,
to grow and evolve and become who they really are
destined to be prior to having all of these.

Speaker 3 (07:46):
Strangers opinions about them.

Speaker 4 (07:48):
Like they didn't have all of these people telling them
who they are supposed to be. They were just able
to figure it out on their own.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
And maybe be able to figure it out on your
own opposite of people that mattered, right? The people that really,
that you had to judge. I remember my mom and dad,
I'm very close with them, and they would always say
to me, my dad, when I would leave the house
or go out and do something, he would be like,
if you don't want it on the front page of
your local paper, Don't do it. Like that was like a,

(08:17):
you know, like just the idea was that what you're
living for is that you don't want your parents to
be disappointed. You don't want your family to be disappointed. Like,
and you want to make them proud, right? So it's
the fear of like, I don't want to disappoint my parents.
I don't want to disappoint my family, but also I
want to make these people proud. That's who used to
matter to you because the world, I think about this
a lot too. This is praise aside, this is a
side venture, but you know, the idea that now I

(08:38):
think we all feel like we have to be super
wealthy or super successful, but Going back, like, I don't know,
let's say 40s, 50s, right? Because we didn't have an
awareness of the world, your comparison was really like your.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
Neighbor, right?

Speaker 2 (08:52):
So, like, coming up, if it was, like, coming up
was literally like, oh, shoot, you looked over and, like,
they might have got a new car in their driveway.
Or someone had a tire swing out front, right? And
it was like, oh, so now the kids were like, well,
they have a tire swing. Why don't I have a
tire swing?

Speaker 3 (09:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:07):
You could nip that in the bud right away and
just be like, why are you worried about having a
tire swing? Just go knock on Billy's door and go
play on that tire swing because you knew your neighbors
and because that was really about it. So unless the
entire neighborhood suddenly had a new car and a new
tire swing, you didn't think about it. It wasn't bombarding
you in the same way. But now what's crazy is

(09:27):
the expectation, and this is what's insane to me, is
that most of America, and we know this, we know
this to be true because of the nation we really
live in, Most of America is getting by, like barely
getting by. We are a fortunate group of people who
are just like living in what is most would consider wealth.

(09:47):
We are a fortunate group of people doing that. Most
people do not have $ 1, 500 saved up to be able
to cover an emergency, right? And yet those people are really,
instead of thinking about how to cover that emergency, instead
of thinking about groceries, instead of thinking about things, that
really matter, right? They're having to deal with also somehow
being on feeds all day that's telling them that they
should have their face done like you got done, right?

(10:08):
And that they should be able to be blinged out
like you blinged out. And that they should be able
to have books and successes like you have, which is,
we should be dreaming that.

Speaker 5 (10:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
But it's also okay to understand the gap that, like, yo,
everybody should not be expected to live this way.

Speaker 3 (10:25):
I love how you looked at me and couldn't pick
nothing physical, nothing superficial.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
Just like them people. Also, you know, I don't really
like to flirt with married men like that. I don't
play them games. You know, I like to keep it real.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
It ain't nothing like that.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
No, it's nothing to flirt with. See, now, she had
to go to the cut.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
Did you see when he got $ 200 million?

Speaker 3 (10:44):
Listen, let me tell you something, Cynthia.

Speaker 4 (10:45):
What?

Speaker 3 (10:46):
That's not true.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
That's a big gap right there. He did an article.
He was actually on the, was it Forbes?

Speaker 3 (10:51):
Propaganda. Listen.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
Wait, what happened?

Speaker 2 (10:52):
I'm about to close my mouth.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
You got a lot of money.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (10:55):
He is doing it for the creators in the space.

Speaker 3 (10:56):
You once said.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
They saw that.

Speaker 4 (10:59):
You once said one of your proudest experiences was an
NBC pilot that didn't even get picked up.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:05):
I want to know about that. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (11:07):
I saw you say you learned what you were capable
of doing under pressure.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yes. That pilot was called Love is a Four Letter Word.
It was written and developed by Diana Son, who's also
an incredible playwright. I love working with playwrights. Yes, it
was for NBC. George Tillman Jr. was the director. That's
what I mean. That wasn't a loss. I still know
George Tillman Jr. I got an opportunity to work with

(11:32):
George Tillman Jr. I think of all of the actors
that was on that show with me, I can't even
list all of them, but they're all amazing. All of
us have gone on to keep working. Most of us
still keep in touch. Those are like blessings that came
out of that. But yes, I think I say that
it was one of the things I was most proud
of because unfortunately there was industry things. We did a
table read. Something didn't work out. They felt like the

(11:54):
actress who was the lead, just things didn't work out
and they had to replace her. and they came to
me and asked me to sort of step up into
this position, which is, it's difficult for two reasons. One,
because that's an enormous amount of work to take on
in a very short amount of time, learning a whole new,
you've read the script like crazy, but also now there's
a whole new focus. But more importantly, I didn't know

(12:16):
the woman, thank God, honestly, because I didn't know her
that well. If she was my friend, I would have been,
you know, it would have been real hard. I'd be like, oh, girl.
But because I didn't know her, I knew it was
just a professional thing. But I still felt like I
had to call her. I called down to the hotel
room and I let her know that they were, you know,
giving me this opportunity. And I mean, I was going
to take it. but I just wanna do it. It
wasn't like I was gonna be like, girl, if you

(12:37):
don't want me to, I want, this is, you know,
we're all working for these things. And honestly, I know
she would've wanted me to, you know, because we want
that for each other. I think most of the women
in this industry, particularly black women, we are rooting for
each other in every possible way. But I did wanna
call her and say like, just, yo, this is happening.
And I just want you to know, I really do
feel for you because I know this must be, while
it's a great moment for me, I can't imagine that

(12:58):
this has to be a very challenging moment for you.
So I just want you to know I'm not like
celebrating the loss. I'm just going to do my best.

Speaker 5 (13:06):
And she'll remember that for the rest of her career.

Speaker 1 (13:08):
Oh, so.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
Yeah, that's very sweet. But anywho, when I went to
do it, it was wild because suddenly, you know, this
thing that we work for very long and hard to be,
you know, lead of a TV show, it was happening.
And I wasn't sure if I was ready for it.
And then I did it.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
And I was.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
Why weren't you sure if you were ready or not?
I guess because you never know what you're ready for
until it happens. You know, I think right now in
this country, we're facing a time where I think all
the time every day that people have been talking for
years about what they would do, you know, if a
revolution came, what they would do if an injustice faced
us like it did our predecessors. And I'm always like, well,
what we are doing right now is exactly what we're showing.

Speaker 3 (13:51):
We're showing.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
Tweeting.

Speaker 5 (13:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
You know what I mean? Everybody thought they'd be so
big and bad. Just like everybody said, you know, if
I was in slavery, if I was in slavery, I
would have took over the master's house. If I was
in slavery.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
No, you wouldn't have.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
Maybe, maybe.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
But I'm just saying it's not. I don't see all
those revolutionaries. I don't see a lot of Nat Turners.
I don't see a lot of Nat Turners. I don't
see that.

Speaker 4 (14:13):
They all, when they make them IG videos, them two,
three minute IG videos yelling at everybody else for what
they not doing.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
With the captions on.

Speaker 3 (14:18):
You first.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (14:20):
You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 (14:20):
Thank you. What are we willing to actually... And look,
I'm a part of the we because here's the other thing.
As much as I feel like there are things that
I stand for and things that I care about, things
that I'm going to push up against, there are also
things that I go, I'm still putting money in this economy,
which is the biggest way that we're supporting all of it, right?
So every day that I do it.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
Like, look.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
How much are we willing to sacrifice, right? Like, I
don't know. Am I supposed to go off the grid?
Am I supposed to, you know, go out? But there are, right?

Speaker 1 (14:46):
There are people.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
There are people living out in the country, growing their
own food, doing all the things, training their kids how
to shoot guns. There are people who are doing that
because they understand that this is what it takes. I
don't know that I'm at a place to be doing
all of that. So I'm still a part of the we.
The we that is saying we're not showing up. what
we're willing to do. So I think the answer is,
just to your question, is we don't know what we're

(15:08):
capable of and or how we will surprise ourselves or
how we will fail ourselves. We don't know that until
the moment arises. On that day, when that opportunity came
to me, I was really proud of myself for more
than anything, the fact that I had watched number ones
in my career that I was both really impressed by

(15:29):
and also really disappointed in. And I was really happy
that I felt like I took that opportunity and led
a show by example. And that was the thing that
I really still to this day, no matter what my
number is on a call sheet, that I be like,
it's important to operate in excellence. It's important to show
up on time. It's important to be polite to people.
It's important to know the names of the camera operators.

(15:52):
It's important to be an example at all times because
so many people are working for this opportunity. So many people.
I am still working for all the opportunities that I'm given.
So I really be out here like, man, I don't
want to ever make it look like I'm riding on,
you know, my last success. I'm always like, I want

(16:14):
to honor this story. Things like Messy Lola, I'm like,
Kevin Douglas is a great writer and my dear friend,
and I love him. And he created this incredible concept.
And I knew he was this brilliant writer that I
wanted to get something out of. in the universe that
represented him. But I'm like, when I do that, just
because it's my face on the show or just because,
you know what I mean? I know I'm telling his story.
I honor writer's words. I honor the worker space. I

(16:39):
honor the opportunities from all the black women before me
who opened doors so that we could do these things. Like,
I just really, really do think it's that serious that
like every day is an opportunity for us to honor the, um,
The fact that we didn't used to be here.

Speaker 3 (16:54):
That's right.

Speaker 4 (16:55):
There's another lesson in the NBC pilot thing I think
people can learn from.

Speaker 3 (16:59):
Give it to me.

Speaker 4 (16:59):
Stop judging your career strictly by whether the audience saw
the work. Because nowadays you got these kids, they'll walk
into NBC just passing by and take a picture.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
And be like, on my way.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
You know what I mean? On my way.

Speaker 3 (17:15):
You did no work.

Speaker 4 (17:16):
You did nothing. When did you stop judging your career
strictly by whether the audience saw the work?

Speaker 2 (17:23):
Oh, man. From the start.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
No jokes.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
From the start.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
My very first job was I did this movie.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
I'm not even going to remember it. It was originally
called Il Mare, but in the end it was Keanu
Reeves and Sandra Bullock. The Lake House. That was my
very first movie.

Speaker 3 (17:42):
In 2006.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yep. My very first movie was Lake House. It was
right out of college, right?

Speaker 1 (17:45):
So excited.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
So excited. thought it was so dope.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
It was for Warner Brothers.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
It was like this big director. I was working, it
was Keanu Reeves, Sandra Bullock. Sandy Bullock was like one
of my icons. Christopher Plummer, like man, it was like
heavy hitters. And I was so excited and I went
to set and I filmed like probably, I'm going to
say maybe 18 days, which is major, right? I don't
even know anymore, but let's say it was 18 days.
It was downtown. It was on locations. It was in
my city.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
It was in Chicago.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
I was loving life. The movie came out. I was
telling everybody.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
Everybody.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
I was, you know, waiting to go to the premiere,
all this stuff on the day of the premiere, y'all,
the day of the premiere. And I didn't have any
team at that time. I didn't have a publicist or anybody.
So it's me, just my personal self calling the office like, hey, guys,
I just wanted to check in because I haven't received
my ticket to the premiere yet. And they were like, oh, honey.
you've been cut out of the film. And then eventually

(18:38):
what I found out is that I was still in
the film, like visual, like I was out, you could
see me, but it was, my scenes were just drastically condensed.
I even had a couple of lines, you know, but
I was cut out of the film enough that they
did not feel like I deserved to.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
Be included for a ticket.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
I couldn't even get a ticket, y'all. So I'm not
kidding you, that day, this is one of the most
strong memories I have. On the day of the premiere,
when I was supposed to be at the premiere, When
I really thought that was going to happen, I still
got dressed up and I went to the theater and
I bought a little bucket of popcorn and I sat
in the back and I watched the movie. I watched
myself on screen. And there I was, you know, that

(19:15):
big screen. And I dreamed my whole life of that.
And so even though. the audience didn't see me, all
the work that I really did, I was still there.

Speaker 3 (19:25):
You know?

Speaker 2 (19:26):
You have such a great mental shift about not letting
anything steal your moment and being present in the moment
and showing up for it.

Speaker 3 (19:34):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
Thank you very much. I really have worked for that.
So it has not come easy and I've not always
been that way. I think even in the moments when
I was... You know how sometimes you're telling yourself. you're telling,
you know what I mean? Like, I'm just saying I
was always aware mentally of like what I knew I
needed to do or the conversations I needed to be

(19:55):
having in my head about myself. But that didn't always
line up like where, you know, it's in your head,
but not your heart. And that took, you know, like
all of us, you know, it just take being a
grown woman.

Speaker 1 (20:05):
Did you ever deal with imposter syndrome?

Speaker 2 (20:07):
Oh, all the time. All the time. I'm really transparent
about this. I don't want to drop it down and
get real or anything, but I'm very transparent about this.
I talk about it a lot. But I really have
suffered with anxiety and depression quite a bit throughout my life.
And I've gone to therapy. I also finally, as much
later in my life, looked at medication. I think all
my life I thought, I was very worried about being

(20:29):
on medication and what that would mean or, you know,
because I had a little bit of an addictive personality.
What was that going to do?

Speaker 1 (20:34):
I'm sober now too.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
So that was like, it's just a lot of things,
you know, it's a lot. We catching up a lot.
But like there were definitely, I think throughout this career,
there's so many times when you think, shoot, I'm going
to tell you, Davina, was it not today? Davina, it
was today. Today, I had imposter syndrome. I'm not kidding y'all. Y'all, now,
I've been here since last night. The flight to get

(20:56):
here was insane. It was delayed five times and then canceled.
And then we had to get a new flight. And then,
so we didn't get in until this morning. And I
didn't have much communication with your producer, right?

Speaker 5 (21:06):
Typical.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
That's what I heard.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
No shade.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
No shade, Eddie. No shade.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
But I was very honestly, I said to Davina in
the room, I said, girl, it's giving they don't know
I'm here. It's giving that.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
Who walked you in?

Speaker 2 (21:22):
The security guard. And then I, yeah, Chris, Chris with
a good fate. So Chris with a good fate brought
me up and I was kicking it with Chris, but
then they just, you know, I met Sydney, but she
didn't say like, hello, Cynthia. You know, normally, you know,
it wasn't like a Cynthia. So then they just put
me in a room and I'm in the room and
me and Davina looking at each other like, Well, do
they know we're here? And then we're waiting, you know,

(21:43):
and then you came out looking beautiful with your red lip.
And she looked directly at me, directly at me and
then turned away. And I said, Davina, they don't know me. Davina,
they don't know me. They don't know why I'm here.
They don't know that I'm on the show. They've never
seen every show. They've never watched anything I've ever done.
They definitely don't. I think maybe I'm not at all.
I literally said today, I think maybe I'm not on
the show today.

Speaker 3 (22:02):
I promise you it's not you.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
No, it's us.

Speaker 2 (22:05):
No, no, don't say us, because I know who Cathy is.
I know who she is. I said at least my
girl Jess. Honestly, I was like, at least I know Jess.
I was about to be like, let me see if
I can hit up Jess real quick.

Speaker 3 (22:16):
I'm talking about the team.

Speaker 4 (22:18):
Everything you're saying now, trust me, there's somebody right now saying, see,
I've been saying that, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 (22:23):
I'm sorry, y'all.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
I'm not trying to get anybody in trouble.

Speaker 3 (22:26):
I'm so sorry.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
I feel bad because I remember I looked up, I
was grabbing my stuff to go to the bathroom, and
I saw your hat and your shirt, and I.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
Was like, oh, she looks And then I went to
the bathroom, I came back, y'all was here. I didn't
know all that was happening.

Speaker 4 (22:38):
As long as you've been in Hollywood, you know, there's
a certain protocol for certain things.

Speaker 3 (22:42):
You would think the Breakfast Club had a a producer
that might be more.

Speaker 4 (22:45):
Communicative, more in communication, you would think when you get here,
somebody would greet you and bring you upstairs.

Speaker 3 (22:52):
I completely understand.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
And the industry will humble you like that. It'll humble you,
and that's why I never get too into it. There
are rooms I walk in where people are going to
be so excited to see me because they're fans of
whatever it is that I do. There are other rooms
I walk in where people don't know who I am
at all. I do not live expecting anything. But yes,
in the sense of the professional, you know, just you
do have a certain expectation of how it's going to run.

(23:13):
But that didn't make me think, oh, they're not doing
anything right. That's what I'm saying is the answer. I'm
just saying what it made me feel was, oh, no.

Speaker 1 (23:19):
You know what's crazy? No, but you know what's crazy, though?

Speaker 2 (23:23):
I asked you that because when I was listening to
you and you were talking about how you went to
the theater and you still watched yourself or whatever, and
it didn't take away from who you knew you were.
I'm like, in real life, I'm working on that. So
that's a great place to get to. And hearing your
perspective of the imposter syndrome today where it was like
there were so many other things happening. It had nothing
to do with you and what you feel about yourself
and the work you did. It's like, man, imposter syndrome

(23:45):
will really make you forget who you are. Because it's like,
regardless of all of that, you've done the work.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
You're here.

Speaker 3 (23:51):
But does it make you forget whose you are? Because
at the end of the day, you've got to get
to a place of worth.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
That is what she's talking about. That's what I'm saying.
And that's what you just have to, it's constant.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
It's constant work.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
That's all I'm saying. All I mean by it's not
easy is it's constant work. And at no point do
I think there's a, and I know this, not just
for me, but all the people I've worked with. I've
had the pleasure of working alongside so many incredible artists, actors, comedians,
and I watch all of them have the same struggle.
And what's funny is I just wish, and that's why
me when I say I'm very honest about it, because
I wish we just communicated that more. I wish that

(24:21):
at the end of the day, we really could look
at each other and be like, no matter how fly
we look, We are just a bunch of little kids
who grew up, like for real. And that we really,
and also that instead of critiquing each other and or
trying to front for each other, what we could do
is just be supporting each other so much more vocally,
you know. But I really do thank God that, and
I pray that you continue to have really good women

(24:42):
and family and people in your life who can, whatever
that sound get in your head, that maybe you not
the you you are. I surround myself by people, my girls,
my fam. I surround myself by people and anybody who
I used to let be around that didn't make me
feel amazing about myself. They gone now.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
Get them out.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
I really used to allow people to be around me
that was like, eh, on me.

Speaker 5 (25:07):
You know?

Speaker 2 (25:08):
They was lukewarm. Eh, on me. And then I'm like,
for what? You know how noisy this world is and
how much people want to... Like, no, man. I got
to combat that. I need people around me that's on
fire about me. I need people around me that tell me...
That they know I'm going to do the same for them.
I need people like that in my life because the
noise is loud in here. And we got to have
people that's louder than that. So I think that's also...

(25:30):
One of the things that allowed me to be like
that is I really have a great family. I've really
chosen some excellent friends. And I've also chosen friends who've
made me, who've told me, who disciplined me and checked
me and just saying, get the other ones out. That's important.

Speaker 3 (25:44):
Bishop T.D. Jakes told me one time, because I deal
with the same thing, anxiety, bouts of depression. And Bishop T.D.

Speaker 4 (25:49):
Jakes says, look, when it comes to imposter syndrome, even
if you don't feel worthy, just know that you serve
a God.

Speaker 3 (25:56):
That believes your word.

Speaker 4 (25:57):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
And he will close that gap.

Speaker 3 (25:59):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
Don't you worry about it.

Speaker 4 (26:01):
So every place you are, you're supposed to be there
because God ordained you to be there.

Speaker 3 (26:05):
So if you lean into that, you'll have a sense
of forgiveness.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
It's not even about you.

Speaker 3 (26:08):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
I have reached out to... You know, Davina prayed for
me this morning. My friend Blake prayed for me. I
talked to my friend Kosan. And he has said to me,
he said... Cosign from Chicago? Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
He's my guy.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
Yeah, Cosign from Chicago. He's the music producer on my
new film, Fried Catfish. Cosign, he has said to me,
I said, what is the prayer that you have for me?

Speaker 1 (26:30):
He said, my.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
Favorite prayer is just to say, God, take me out
of the room. and you come in my place. And
I said, that's good.

Speaker 1 (26:40):
That's good, honey.

Speaker 2 (26:41):
I'ma do that. I like that one. Yeah, Coach always
got a good prayer for me. Let's talk about Average Joe. Yes,
get into it.

Speaker 5 (26:49):
Yes, Kathy Montgomery is ambitious, complicated, unapologetic. But what do
you feel that the viewers misunderstand about her character?

Speaker 2 (26:59):
Them viewers right now, they hate me, don't they? Ooh,
they on the internet cut me up.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
That's a little misunderstood.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
What you feel like they did wrong?

Speaker 1 (27:05):
Look, here's the thing.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
I'm an actress, right? And so I got to love
my character.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (27:08):
Like, I mean, I'm an actress. First of all, I'm
just like, I'm an actress. People really don't like to
separate your character. For years when I was Trina Shaw,
when I tell you folks would be in the street like, Trina!

Speaker 1 (27:18):
But that mean you're doing a good job. I love it.
I love it.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
That means that you're killing it.

Speaker 1 (27:21):
I'm like, amen.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
And they hate me right now. And I'm like, that's great.
That means I'm doing my job right. But what I
will say is because it's my character and I love her,
I'm gonna defend her, okay? Because as an actor, we
gotta fall in love with our characters. We have to
know who they are and see their points of view.
I just wanna say one thing. Everybody keep being like,
Kathy has.
In season one, everyone loved Kathy, right? It was, that's

(27:45):
my girl. She ride or die. She so gangsta. We
love her, right? And in season two, they, hey, literally
at the end of season one, I don't know if y'all,
I'm not ruining anything because most people, they've seen at
least season one. They might have caught up with two.
But in season one, when we thought she was dead,
when I say people was like, if Kathy die, I
ain't watching this show no more.

Speaker 4 (28:03):
I'm done.

Speaker 2 (28:04):
Now we cut to season two and people.

Speaker 1 (28:06):
Like, Kill this hoe.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
Kill this old light-skinned asshole. I always knew she wasn't shit.
And I'm like, yeah, I did.

Speaker 5 (28:14):
Like something happened when we thought she was dead and then.

Speaker 3 (28:16):
You came back.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
And I really sat up and thought about it and
I said, you.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
Know what's interesting?

Speaker 2 (28:20):
When Kathy was, she's always been a killer. She's always
been vicious. She's always been self-serving. She's always been nasty,
mouthed at nasty energy, really. I mean, I still think she's.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
Funny, though.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
But what she was was loyal to Leon, right? Now,
in season two, because people think she's not being loyal,
then they so ready to be done with her. My
thing is that she's a villain. She's always been a villain.
She's an anti-hero, you know what I mean? And what
I find interesting about it is that people will always
champion you when you're loyal to others. This is just

(28:51):
an interesting thing, what we talking about. But when you
loyal to yourself... They don't like that. They don't like that.

Speaker 5 (29:00):
That is so true because Empower, when Ghost was loyal
to everybody else, I loved him. But when he started, like,
pulling back and only thinking about himself.

Speaker 1 (29:09):
I hated him.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
Still didn't want to see him die.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
Like, I didn't want to see Kathy die.

Speaker 4 (29:12):
Exactly. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (29:13):
Well, no, they want to see me dead.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
No, I know.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
Girl, no, they said die. They said, if I come
back next episode and she's still here, I'm cutting it off.
The conversation is whether you ride or die or not. Like,
whether you And then this is, I'ma ruin stuff for people.
Spoiler alert, spoiler alert, spoiler alert, spoiler, spoiler. Okay, so
they gone, y'all good? Y'all just cover your ears. Okay,
we coming right back. Okay, so in case you haven't

(29:36):
watched it yet, but in this last episode, everybody thought
she was throwing them to the wolves and putting them
in prison. She literally said, hey man, I wasn't ever
going to leave you there. I was going to come back.
She was not. She's not.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
Now look.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
Does she serve herself? Yes, absolutely. She has said from
day one, episode one, I'm about this money. I was
always about the money. I married this man because we
were supposed to do something together. But as we saw
in flashbacks, this is about me, Leon said this.

Speaker 1 (30:04):
To our family.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
She never said that. Kathy said, you my family. You're
my husband. I've chosen you. And for two seasons, she's
been begging him to choose her and he keeps choosing
his friend, which is hilarious to me that we all
see that she's not loyal.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
That's what we think.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
She's not loyal.

Speaker 3 (30:20):
And I'm like.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
They said she was a gold digger. Was she? Because
the man lost his job, lost the hardware store, lost
the whole franchise, and she's still been there. She ain't
cheated on him. She ain't left nowhere. So what she
did was she was promised a certain life, a certain thing.
And even when she didn't get it, she didn't abandon him.
She's been with him. His friends the whole time been
calling her a cunt and a bitch and a hoe
and everything else. And he's letting that happen. So I'm

(30:44):
just saying that my argument would be that actually Kathy
has been faithful to him all along and he has
not been loyal to her. And she is about tired
of it. But she still is like, look, do you.
You got a little soft heart. I know you. It's okay.
You go save your friend, be with your boy, do
what you got to do. But I'm going to go
get this money. And when I get it, I'm going

(31:07):
to come back and get you. I'll even let your
little friend out of jail too. But when we get
that money, we got to go and it's got to
be me and you. Because I'm tired of all this
talk about him and his family and his daughter.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
That's not my family.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
And I think for me, Kathy is just, she's someone
who has always been who she was and she's shrunken
herself a little bit. She, if we remember on day one,
when things started popping off, she was the first one ready.
She was shooting and taking bodies on episode one.

Speaker 5 (31:35):
That's why everybody loved Cathy in the first season.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
Like, you were ride or die. You know what I mean?

Speaker 5 (31:40):
You still are ride or die, but it was just,
I don't know, it's a little fluff this season. And
do you feel like the audience, they will judge an
ambitious woman differently than they judge an ambitious man?

Speaker 1 (31:50):
That's what I'm saying. Here's what's crazy.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
Y'all, we have a villain this season.

Speaker 1 (31:52):
Sipo.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
Sipo out here cutting off heads. Yeah. Sipo out here
drowning kids in the pool. Do you know no one
on the internet is talking about Sipo? They are only
talking about me. Yes, they judge a woman differently. Are
you crazy? Like a woman, all she's doing is trying
to get the money and get the money to give
to her. She ain't trying to skip town on him.
She wants more than anything for her and Leon to

(32:15):
have a chance To live a life. And also, look,
I will say this. She's also a little bit of
a psychopath. Let's not undermine that. Okay, thank you. She
a little crazy. She's been a little crazy. Leon was
a little weird. Everybody a little weird. You know, I
think the show is also about saying it's average Joe, right?
It's what happens if average people get put in situations.
And what do we say? You're going to find out.
Are you a Nat Turner?

Speaker 3 (32:35):
Right?

Speaker 2 (32:36):
Are you an Uncle Tom? Who are you? And I
just think that, you know, are you the godfather or
are you Fredo?

Speaker 3 (32:45):
There's got to be a middle ground between Uncle Tom
and Nat Turner, too. It can't just be either or.

Speaker 4 (32:51):
I know he's on the world extreme, but it can't
be just Nat and Uncle.

Speaker 1 (32:54):
It's a middle ground.

Speaker 3 (32:56):
Okay, who was in The Godfather?

Speaker 2 (32:57):
So who wasn't Corleone and wasn't Fredo? You know what
I mean? Like, maybe you're going to be Clemenza. You
know what I mean? Maybe you're going to be just
helping out and, you know, making sure the food is tasty.
I don't know. I'm just saying, though, you're going to
figure out who you are in this life of crime.

Speaker 3 (33:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
That's all I'm saying. In his life of crime, you gon'
figure out, are you cut out for it or are
you not? And I'm just saying, I think she actually
is really cut out for it. And that to me
is what, and it's taken a long time to get there,
but I really just feel like hopefully by the end,
people will see that Cathy was just a different, she
cut from a different cloth. that actually she really is
good at being a criminal, whereas the rest of them

(33:31):
are kind of fumbling through it. She's always been a
little bit a step ahead of them. But she just,
I think, would love it if she could be a
criminal and if Leon would still love her. So it's
two things. Again, I'm just an actress, so I got
to play what's true to me. And I really have
just found it wildly fun and interesting to play a
woman who loves her husband, but is not like a

(33:56):
lover girl. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (33:58):
Well, let's stay there then.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
How much of Cynthia is in.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
Your character? How much of you is in.

Speaker 2 (34:05):
If I say any, it's going to be... I honestly...
I feel like this is gonna sound so terrible. Because
you said what's true to you. You gotta play what's
true to you. I'm not a killer, obviously, but honestly,
Cathy is the closest to me than anything I've ever played.

Speaker 3 (34:20):
You ain't no killer, but don't push it.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
That's all I'm saying. I ain't no killer. But again,
Cathy is much more vicious than me. Also, I just
think all my life I've played a lot of things
that were very like lawyers and people who are all
put together. And I am not that person at all.
I think there's a public-facing version of me where people

(34:43):
kind of... You know, when I was working with Kevin,
I remember on our first season, at the end of
Real Husbands, and he met my husband.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
Kevin Hart.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
Yes, Kevin Hart.

Speaker 3 (34:53):
I'm so sorry.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
Kevin Hart, yes. And he met my husband, who is
now my ex-husband, who we will not mention, but most
people know this. Again, this is pretty public, but my
ex-husband was in jail. And when I say in jail,
I mean he was in jail before he became my husband. So, yes,
I married the dude after he got out. So there's
a whole lot there.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yeah, honey, I was with him the whole time he
was there. I was with him before he went into jail.
I was with him during the time he was in
jail and I was with him. And then we married afterwards.
In the end, I should have known better. Like my
mama tried to tell me. See, parents. My mama tried
to tell me. But what's funny is he was in
jail for basically being a con. And guess what, y'all?
He turned out to be a con. Conned me into marriage.

Speaker 1 (35:33):
Anyway, so. You real life ride or die?

Speaker 2 (35:36):
Honey so that's what i'm saying so what's funny is
like it.

Speaker 6 (35:40):
Actually you got typecast y'all remember when i was on
prison break i was i was also on prison break
and i was yeah when i would that show was
on at the time i was going to visit him
in jail and when i tell you the way them
guards used to mess with.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
Me y'all i used to get so much shit like
they would be like oh you coming to break up
break them out you coming to break your ass shut
the Shut the fuck up. Anyway, so yes, Kathy is
probably the closest in the sense that like, I don't
mean I'm a killer. I don't mean I'm vicious. I
just mean that I am loyal. I think let me say,

(36:13):
I'll say it that way.

Speaker 1 (36:14):
I am loyal.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
But what I will say is, and this is something
that fascinates me about her and why I like playing it,
is I am loyal and I am also someone who
has made the mistake of being loyal to others and
then sacrificing.

Speaker 1 (36:27):
Sacrificing.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
What matters to me or not serving myself enough, you know,
because that's the thing. And I think I talk a
lot of my girlfriends about this is that I will,
I'll be so worried about what everybody's going to think
or who's going to be happy. And I think women
in general, we do a lot of sacrificing for the family,
for our husband, for the children, for the group, for whatever.

(36:48):
And I am really trying to learn, honestly, from Kathy.
I learn from all my characters about how does one
put themselves first? Because I actually admire that about her.
I think it is a very masculine trait. I think
it's a trait that women are not taught and men are. Yes.

Speaker 3 (37:07):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
And that's what I'm saying is that as a wife,
it is looked at as you ain't when you do something.
But I'm like men for all time have been pursuing opportunities,
pursuing money, pursuing their better job.

Speaker 3 (37:19):
Right.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
If they get a good job, it takes them. So
like we think of it as terrible because it's about
killing people for money. But if it was just a
proper right. you get a good job and it takes
you to New York, to L.A., and your wife is like, well,
I don't wanna go, you gon' go. And nobody is
gonna say, like, you ain't, they're gonna say he did
what he had to do, you know? And also they're

(37:40):
gonna say he's making money for the family, right? But
when a woman.

Speaker 3 (37:45):
You leaving the family, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
And I know these are different circumstances because we're talking
about killing Imani. I understand that. But I'm just saying
it's still to me at base the same point is
that women are not encouraged to be self-serving. It is
looked at as you are a bitch the second. And
not just that, but also that you're kind of like
you lose your... It's not softness. It's like your lovability.

(38:09):
Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (38:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
You're literally no longer lovable. Like, the thing that made
you valuable was not what you had to offer the world,
was not what you could bring in your skill set
or your point of view or whatever. It's your loyalty
to me.

Speaker 4 (38:22):
I wonder if it's that or if it's the fact
that it's almost like you're not being submissive.

Speaker 3 (38:27):
Like, women are looked at as submissive.

Speaker 1 (38:29):
Right.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (38:29):
So when you're not submissive, it's like that's not a
womanly trait. Yep. And even when.

Speaker 1 (38:34):
But I will.

Speaker 5 (38:36):
just piggyback what you said and expound on it a
little bit from a different perspective, the women, sometimes women
will beat themselves up about that.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
Because that's what I had to do.

Speaker 5 (38:46):
I had to leave my family to live here to
do this job. Everybody can't uproot their lives. My kids
got their lives. My husband has his life.

Speaker 3 (38:54):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 5 (38:54):
My whole family is in Maryland. And you feel bad
about that sometimes, right? Not because they make me feel
bad or whatever. The world is looking at me like, Oh,
she a deadbeat. She ain't even with her kids. She
picked this job over her kids or her family. I
just feel that.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (39:10):
I do know what you mean.

Speaker 3 (39:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
But somebody is saying you a deadbeat. That's fucked up.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (39:15):
Like, somebody is saying that.

Speaker 1 (39:17):
I don't think that.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
You shouldn't think that's the truth. Somebody is saying that.
And that's why you feel it.

Speaker 1 (39:25):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (39:26):
I'm just saying you're not crazy. Like, no, you're not crazy.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
That is what.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
a narrative that gets told. One of my best friends,
Tambra Perry, she's an actress. She was on the show
Brilliant Minds. She's number two. Again, I've been with her forever.
I've watched her work her little tail off. Her husband, again,
is the guy who wrote the show. I love them.
They're a great couple. They solid. They've both been in
this industry forever. They're great. Right. But when she gets
a job that takes her to New York, took her

(39:51):
to then in season two, they went to Canada and
her kids, they got two little girls. Them little girls
are in school. Them little girls got lives. They can't
pick up and move just because she moves. So there
might be five months for four to four to five months.
When we go do a show, we're separated from our partners.
And yes, she's going to fly them out when they can.
She's going to go home when she can. Again, it

(40:11):
wouldn't be anything if a man did it. It's literally
nothing when a man does it. We literally don't even
question it. It's what he got to do.

Speaker 3 (40:19):
A man will cheat and use it as an excuse.

Speaker 2 (40:21):
He was gone for four months. Exactly. And you talk
to your friends and your mom. about it, they'll be like,
you better go where that man going. You better go
and get that man.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
Because it's four to five months.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
Yeah, because you can't leave that man.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
They would never be like, why is he leaving you?

Speaker 2 (40:34):
Exactly.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
And it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
And that's what I mean. And I am not. I
am not. I am not. I am not.

Speaker 3 (40:40):
I am not.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
I am not.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
One of these women who are out here trying to
hate men. I love men. I love us. I want
us to work together. I'm just saying that I think
a part of us working together is that First of all,
we stop worrying about what everybody's saying on the Internet.
And that's what I mean is they marriage is fine.
They're fine. They know who each other are, right? We
got to stop worrying about somebody thinking we a deadbeat mom.
Who cares? Do your kids love you? Do they feel loved?

Speaker 1 (41:02):
Yeah, they do.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
Do they know that mommy loves them?

Speaker 1 (41:04):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
And are they proud of you when they see you?

Speaker 5 (41:07):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
And are you teaching them by being here that they
can do anything? Yeah.

Speaker 5 (41:12):
Just like I have to leave right after the interview
to get on a flight to go to back to
school night for my son.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
This is first year in high school.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
Girl, I ain't missing that for nothing.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
Love it.

Speaker 3 (41:19):
So, yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
I'm going to fly right back. And he know mommy
going to show up when it matters.

Speaker 5 (41:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
And that's it. Thank you, girl. I just think, yeah, don't,
we got to stop worrying about how other people feel about,
if I hear one more podcast. person, relationship, advice given, something.
I just want us to, and look, we all, we
need the media because we have jobs because of media.
But also, I just would love if we could do
more of this, more conversation that, where we really are

(41:47):
hearing different perspectives, where we are encouraging one another, and
where the end goal is that we figure out how
to love each other both relationally and communally better.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
Period.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
Point blank.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
That's it. That's it.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
Going back to what am I? I'm a storyteller. And
I want stories that inspire us to either laugh at
how we're not doing a thing right, to point out
the absurdity of it all, or to emotionally grab at
us and compel us to do better. That's what I
think this incredible magic of media and storytelling can do

(42:25):
and should do, you know?

Speaker 3 (42:27):
Well, thank you for sharing some of your story with
us this morning.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so blessed.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
I was reading a review about you when I was
studying for this.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
No, it was great.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
That's all I want to share. No, it was great.
It's on Riot U.S.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
But she talked about, it's a woman, she talks about
how you're the standout character for the season. from the
first season, and she says that you became the most
dynamic of the group. And that basically, I mean, this article,
I'll send it to you, is giving you so much prop.
And I know that when you're in that whole phase
of like, am I, do I, seeing things like this
are really good. So I just wanted to point that out,

(43:02):
that when I was reading about you, everyone, even if
they hate you, are like, but what would we do
without her on this show? Because you have become the conversation,
even with that villain you mentioned.

Speaker 5 (43:10):
Girl, if you got everybody in an uproar, including me.

Speaker 3 (43:13):
At least they care.

Speaker 1 (43:14):
You know what I'm saying? Exactly.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
I love it. I always be like, my job is
to serve the story. So I'm so grateful. People talking
about it, it means they into it. I'm going to
get you in your feelings. I'd rather you be in
your feelings than be lukewarm. What I say, I don't
want nobody being lukewarm about me. I'm interested in you
having feelings, whether that's as a character or as a person.
I want you to be invested. So I'm so grateful.

(43:38):
Thank you to that sis who wrote that article.

Speaker 4 (43:40):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
Thank you, sis. That's what I tell you. Women be supportin'. Yeah,
I love it. My sisters be out here for me.
Thank you.

Speaker 5 (43:47):
Well, I love you, Cynthia Cathy Williams.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
Cynthia K. McWilliams slash Cynthia Cathy McWilliams.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
That's right. That's what it is.

Speaker 4 (43:55):
Well, thank you, Cynthia, for joining us. Make sure y'all
check out Average Joe and Messy Lola.

Speaker 2 (43:59):
Streaming now on Roku. Yes, Kevin Douglas, Blake Martin, all
the cast, all of Chicago behind this project. Thank you
so much for bringing it out of independent obscurity. and
onto television. We worked so hard for that. So people,
thank you so much. When you watch Average Dough, that
money go to them. When you watch Messy Lola, it
go to us. I just want to make sure.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
I say that.

Speaker 4 (44:20):
I was going close, but I feel like you got
to take this opportunity to talk about Sin City.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
Oh, yes.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
Sin City Productions.

Speaker 1 (44:27):
It's my production company.

Speaker 3 (44:28):
Yeah, sure.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
I'll try to make it real quick. Sin City Production Company,
it's an independent production company. I'm out of Chicago. Chicago's
where I went to DePaul. It's where I started my career,
and so it's where I went back home. I left L.A.
and I moved back home, and I really decided that
it was a place I could make the most impact.
In L.A., it's very hard to do anything. I'm going
to be super transparent, too, because I always love to
talk about money because I think that people think they

(44:51):
can't do things, and I want to be clear. Messy
Lola's my first project. It's a 10-episode series that's now
on Roku. It's really hard to get an independent scene
by anybody, let alone the streaming. I have no team
behind me. I have no investors. This is 100% self-funded.
We did 10 episodes of television for $ 180, 000.

Speaker 1 (45:08):
Yes, I know.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
And then what I learned from that was all of
the things that I could do to make that budget
go even further. My next project was Fried Catfish. Still,
very small budget, but we did it all in Chicago,
all Chicago locations. We worked very much with the Illinois
Film Office, with the SAG, with unions, the WGA signatory.
But really, and I always say this, The bottom line
is money is not the resource. People are the resource.

(45:32):
That you can get anything done if you reach across,
if you look at your phone book and you realize
that all your life you've been creating and sowing seeds.
Now that's if you are a person who's been sowing
good seed, which is why I also say, and I
warn against, sometimes people be so busy trying to chase
something that they forget to sow any seeds along the
way to plant anything to support anybody else. You want
the support and you look back and realize I haven't

(45:54):
showed up for anybody and that's why nobody showed up
for you. But Because I'm really fortunate to be surrounded
by so many incredible creatives. When I say each one
of these projects, I was able to call actors. I
didn't audition anybody. I knew exactly who to hire because
I know these people. I've been in the city for
years working, watching them work. Why? I hate when I
have to go audition for something that I'm like, I
just played that character yesterday.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
You know?

Speaker 2 (46:13):
So I wanted to find writers like Kevin Douglas, who
created this incredible, funny, quirky show, who are pushing and
scraping and trying to make it and just say, I'm
going to hire you. I'm not going to even play games.
I'm going to hire you.

Speaker 1 (46:26):
I'm asking you.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
Write me a show. Because I know you can. And
then I'm going to put a crew together of people
that might be like they're in the union or they're
outside of the union. They can't break through because of gatekeeping.
And I'm like, come get over here on this set.
On our set, we operate what one of my executive
producers that works with me, Latarion Perry, what we sort
of created called a teaching set, like a teaching hospital.

(46:49):
So our department heads are people who are like in
unions or who have experience. And then everyone underneath them
is green. And we make sure then that you can
come in to get more black people, more brown people,
more women in positions that they don't often get to do.
So when you come and you do sound, you're going
to actually be able to, you know, you're going to
get up in here and not just mic me up.
You're going to hold a boom. If you're a camera operator,
you're not just, you know, doing slate. You're going to
come touch this camera. We're going to get you in here.

(47:11):
You're going to work.

Speaker 1 (47:13):
Teaching them as well. Teaching them.

Speaker 2 (47:15):
And then also just giving them an opportunity to see it.
But there's also a wildly active filmmaking community in Chicago already.
Please do not make me sound like I have changed
the world or anything. They were there. I just wanted
to galvanize, put people together, and get some folks that
maybe wouldn't have had an opportunity to be in those opportunities.
Sin City Studios. Sin City Studios. Now, Sin City Studios
is what evolved into Sin City Productions. So that's how

(47:38):
it happened. I started because... Sometimes you don't know. You
got to fail at a couple of things to get
it right. I started just because I bought a building
when I moved back to Chicago because I believe in
real estate, you know. I needed to live somewhere. And
I always feel like if you buy something, it's better
to just have choices. Anywho, I had this building. Eventually,
I decided that the two floors that were residential, we would,
instead of making it residential, we would take this really

(47:58):
creative thing we were doing. where we were just kind
of like, we were doing so much. We were doing
so much. But we were doing like experimental, creative campaign ads,
editorial shoots. We had an amazing photographer. We had a
hair and makeup team. We had videographers. And then we
expanded and we got these podcast studios. And we were
doing a bunch of stuff. But I was kind of

(48:19):
throwing spaghetti at the wall. But again, sometimes God... And
I really think to this day, like you said, it's
not about the audience or who saw that show. It's
just sometimes you don't even know what you're doing. But
if you're operating in the will of God, it's like
it'll work itself out. And I really just... What I
realized is that the business kind of wasn't right for Chicago.
The market... they didn't have enough creatives that were willing

(48:42):
to invest in their careers and like the media behind,
you know what I mean? They weren't willing to do
that in a way that could sustain our business. So
I was putting a lot of money into something that
wasn't bringing a lot of money out. But then I realized, look,
if I'm gonna go broke, you know, doing something, let
me at least do it so that I have product
at the end. So then I decided, what was crazy anyways?
I go, well, Cynthia, you are an actress and you're
a storyteller and you're a writer and you're a thinker

(49:03):
and you're a director and you've been, you've left your
field Basically, I wanted to fill the gap for the
things I didn't have in my career, right? I was like,
as an actor, there were things I had always wanted.
I wanted a place that I could go to where
someone could help advise my career, could come up with
strategies for publicity. could help me with hair and makeup
and styling. I wanted a one sort of house place

(49:25):
where I could do that. I thought that would be
great for actors, right? Where you go one place and
we can take all of your brand and elevate it
in every way, you know? And help you with media
training and just any and everything that you needed. It
was a great idea. It just didn't suit my market.
But then I thought, I still got all these amazing people, though.
I had all these amazing people. And from that, it

(49:48):
was like, literally, I looked to my left and my
right and I said, why am I doing everything other
than the thing that I actually do for a living?
And then I just said, so Sensity Creative became Sensity Productions.
We did not know what was going to happen. We
just went. I didn't wait.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
I didn't consult.

Speaker 2 (50:03):
And sometimes that's a fail on my part because I
move fast.

Speaker 1 (50:06):
I do.

Speaker 3 (50:07):
I do.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
I also, though, move in with inspiration and sometimes an intention.
And sometimes that means, you know, I might mess up
a contract. I might fail at a thing. I might,
you know, I'm just I'm gonna make mistakes. I'm gonna
make mistakes. But I really try to be like, hey,
I'm OK with making mistakes.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
You're human.

Speaker 2 (50:23):
As long as what I'm also making is a possibility.
You know, I want to make space for more instead
of I hate when people say what can't happen. I
feel like let's not talk about what we can't do.
Let's talk about what we can't do, how we can
do it. So we gathered together, we did that first production,
we learned an enormous amount, and then very quickly after,
I did my first feature film, which was my directorial debut.

(50:46):
Got the chance to work with my very dear friend,
Terry Vaughn.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
Oh, I love her.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
Yes, Terry Vaughn and I play besties in this movie.
And it's a rom-com that is a rom-com that turns
on its head. You know, every rom-com is about some
woman trying to find a man and get married. This
one is about a woman who is married who's trying
to get rid of her husband. And she catfishes him
in order to get rid of it, and it's black people,
so we called it Fried Catfish.

Speaker 3 (51:07):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (51:09):
So that's that movie. And that's our second project.

Speaker 1 (51:11):
We're done.

Speaker 2 (51:12):
We're in post right now. So in less than a
year and a half. We have gotten two really incredible projects,
not just ideated but actually completed. Let me not say that.
I was going to say not in a TP way,
and I don't want to say that man's name in
vain because he's a good businessman. What I mean is
just that, and not in a way I feel that sacrificed.

(51:32):
We didn't overwork our crew. We really tried to make
sure that we respected people's time. We gave them 10-hour days.
We never compromised story. We worked with really incredible writers
so that... We had a good thing at the end.
And I'm really proud of a lot of these actors.
And production value is always, it's a struggle. It's a struggle.
But we doubled our production value in one project. And

(51:55):
most importantly, we finished it and we got it to streaming.
And we did that with no marketing, no money, really,
outside of our original budget. No team. Wow. really just
because Chicago loves us down and then we have spread
from there and now we're out here, we're streaming and
so I really just, again, I mean it when I

(52:17):
say like, I want people to watch, and I'm joking
when I say that paramount, not me. This does come
to us, meaning just that I am self-funded. I really
did go broke doing, you know what I mean? I
put all of my money into this. I invested in myself,
but it's not myself. I invested in what I really
believe so many people around me are capable of. I

(52:39):
invested in people the way I always wanted somebody to
invest in me. It's not that I invested in me. Yeah,
it's my project, and I was like, look, if I'm
the most notable face among it that will help us
get this thing out, cool. But what I really invested
in is a city that I know has an immense
amount of talent that sometimes gets lost in the conversation
about LA, New York, you know? And what I invested

(52:59):
in was writers that I know and love that Kevin
Douglas and Indik Preg Dalvon are writers I've known for
20 plus years that deserve all of the accolades. I
invested in people that had never been on a set before,
that had never directed before, that had never done costuming
or art department before. And now in just a year

(53:20):
and a half, I look around me all the time.
These people that I did this, they're working now. They're
in the industry. They're doing things. And I'd be like,
I didn't do that. Like I said, I just made space.
They were already who they were. We were always who
we were. Sometimes we just need people to.

Speaker 3 (53:37):
Give us, see us, just see us.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
And actually make space for us and stop thinking that
if you make space for someone else, you will lose space.
There's enough. There is enough. This world is so plentiful.
God is so amazing. I just want us to really
make space for each other. So that's what Sin City
Productions is and hopefully will continue to be.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
Well, congratulations. That's right. And others. Thank you. And everybody else.
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (54:06):
Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
Thank you. You know who you remember?

Speaker 3 (54:08):
I just knew this came to me. Crystal Renee Haysley.

Speaker 2 (54:10):
Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
I get it all. A mix between her and Robyn Deedy.

Speaker 4 (54:15):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (54:15):
Robyn Deedy.

Speaker 3 (54:16):
Robyn.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
I get Robyn, Crystal, and Tracee Ellis Ross. These are
the people I get all of the time. Crystal Renee
Haysley first.

Speaker 4 (54:24):
Crystal?

Speaker 5 (54:24):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (54:24):
That's my number one.

Speaker 3 (54:25):
I'm looking like a.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
I'm like, wow, I feel like I know her.

Speaker 3 (54:29):
Chris Dillon.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
Yeah, I get it all the time. I take that
very much as a compliment because she is an absolutely
gorgeous woman. So I take it as a compliment. And
your spirit, too. Yes, she has such a great energy.
I love her podcast.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
I love her.

Speaker 2 (54:40):
Keep it positive, sweetie. Yes, keep it positive, sweetie. That's
what I'm talking about. I love it. We got enough
people trying to keep it hater.

Speaker 1 (54:48):
So thank you for keeping it positive, sweetie.

Speaker 3 (54:51):
Cynthia K. McWilliams, it's The Breakfast Club. Thank you for
joining us.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
Hold up.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
Every day I wake up.

Speaker 3 (54:58):
Wake your ass up. The Breakfast Club.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
You all finished or you all done?