INTERVIEW: Isaiah Rashad Talks 'It's Been Awful,' M.O.M, Sobriety & Career Journeys, Sexuality; Sex-Tape Leak + More

Today on The Breakfast Club, Isaiah Rashad Talks 'It's Been Awful,' M.O.M, Sobriety & Career Journeys, Sexuality; Sex-Tape Leak. Listen For More!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Every day up, click your ass up. The Breakfast Club.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
You don't finish for y'all dumb.

Speaker 3 (00:06):
Yeah, it's the world No dangerous morning Show, The Breakfast Club,
Charlamagne and God DJ Envy just hilarious envying justs on here.
But Lad l Rossa is and we got a special
guest in the building. He's got a new album out.
It's been awful. The Good Brother Isaiah Shot. How are you, sir,
great man? How you feeling, man?

Speaker 1 (00:20):
I feel good, skin, looking luxurious.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
I'm trying to follow, you know.

Speaker 4 (00:25):
He had to go through too much for that.

Speaker 5 (00:26):
Look, I'm on the same ship I had. I did
a whole bunch of bad shaving in college and stuff.
I've been having to do laser and all this other stuff.

Speaker 4 (00:36):
Your eyebrows, you get your eyebrows.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
Donau not get me too.

Speaker 4 (00:43):
He goes through a lot, and.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
Y'all act like men can't have do maintenance on themselves.

Speaker 4 (00:46):
You can, but you be not trying. You be running
from it. Who will be running from what you always
tell you don't get that's don't.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
Get my welcome. That's in no way shape or form.

Speaker 4 (00:56):
The art check the end right exactly.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
Okay, Well to be honest.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
Listen, listen, listen. Back in the day when I was
in I won't even think I was in high school.
I think I was like early twenties. Some girls told
me that Tupac got his eyebrow watch, and so they
convinced me to get my eyebrows watch. And I think
when they grew back, it just had a permanent arch.
That's what I believe.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
That's good, that's a good way to look at it.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
It's the truth. It's been awful. What's what's been awful?

Speaker 3 (01:24):
Isaiah Shad Because when I hit the album title and
I listened to the album, but really the album title,
it sounds like a confession, like what's been awful?

Speaker 1 (01:31):
The industry, your personal life.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
I mean, an amalgamation of everything. You know. I'm just
a human being at the end of it.

Speaker 5 (01:38):
You know, I went through some ship to an extent,
but it was, you know, between being an artist and
the expectations of that. And I guess my deconstruction of
my masculinity has been a lot of getting to know myself.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
Who had who deconstructed it?

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Though?

Speaker 3 (01:55):
Did you deconstruct it or did you let the court
of public opinion? Because I wondered did you face it
before that became public or were you already dealing with
it privately?

Speaker 5 (02:06):
I was already dealing with a lot of my own
stuff before. I guess it was I'm blessed to how
everything happened with me and the reception of everything, because
it allowed me to like step back and really re
examine what I was doing. Because regardless of, you know,
how much I love myself, I still had to be
like I put myself in an irresponsible situation for anybody

(02:29):
to be able to control my narrative.

Speaker 6 (02:33):
But at the time, because listening to the project and
then hearing you say that, like you felt like it
was kind of like a blessing of how everything happened.
When did you get to that point? Did you instantly
feel like, Okay, this is a blessing?

Speaker 5 (02:44):
Yeah, I mean at some point in time I accepted
that they don't make a manual for being like a
bisexual black dude, you know, or any of that type
of shit.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
They don't have a you know.

Speaker 5 (02:54):
Yeah, and it was less like hiding myself from anything
more so like not knowing how to.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
Not be ostracized. I mean, yeah, so.

Speaker 3 (03:04):
Also you got to control your holes regardless of their
men and women, because who the hell was recording?

Speaker 5 (03:08):
You mean, if you listen to the album, If you
listen to the album, I go into a great amount
of detail about where I was at and the influences
I was under. Yeah, a lot of I was on
everything under the sun. But that's no excuse for the behavior.

(03:30):
But and that's the main thing for me, was like,
I'm responsible for myself, responsible for my family and all
that type of shit. And that's that's only if I
have any great of anything. It's just like not being
ahead of it because I thought about talking about this
stuff on my last album, because all that tape shit
happened before the last.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
Album came out, before Houses Brow.

Speaker 5 (03:49):
Yeah, that's why, Like on this album, I talk about
how I wasn't being honest with I guess what I
owe the most like is my audience because they seem
to love me pretty genuinely.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
I don't like what things like that happened to people.

Speaker 3 (04:02):
And I'll tell you why, because I feel like, you know,
your personal life is yours to unpack when you want
to unpack it. Yeah, And I think sometimes when things
like that happen, you know publicly, you're forced to try
to explain things when you may not be ready to
explain them.

Speaker 5 (04:18):
I feel like I've always been under some type of
divine guidance. I grew up in the church, and you know,
I kind of grew out of wanting to go as much.
But my life has definitely been led like I put it, like,
I feel like it's purposeful. I feel like I'm an
artist just to make money, Like I'm here to affect

(04:40):
change in some type of way. So I feel like,
you know, it happened, it was supposed to happen, and
my life is better for it.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
Did that moment break you or free you? Or both?

Speaker 5 (04:51):
It's a little bit of both at the same time.
You know, when anytime you don't get to control how
you want to you know how you want to be,
you perceived and again it was like me understanding again,
like what was for the main thing was like what
was masculinity to me? It made me confront a lot

(05:13):
of stuff that I was saying about women and a
lot of stuff, a lot of ways I was expressing
myself that was really coming just from a place in insecurity.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
I mean, I feel like I've gotten.

Speaker 5 (05:24):
Loved myself a little better in my family man were
way better open conversations.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
We were pretty open before, but that was like all
on the table all the time.

Speaker 6 (05:34):
Had you had talked to your family, like your mom
and different people before all of this stuff you were
kind of dealing with it.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (05:39):
I definitely like my homeboys more than my mom. I
talked to my homeboys about everything I was going through.
So they were the ones who released like they was like,
what the fuck.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
Are you doing? Like why are you you know?

Speaker 5 (05:49):
But they my homeboy was like they know everything about
me my brothers.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
Yeah, oh so they knew beforehand.

Speaker 5 (05:54):
Yeah, you know, you have conversations on tour just in
life and like especially when it was and all that
type of stuff, you end up talking to your homeboys
like I had to talk to you about and they
be like all right, And so when you like that,
it's more so.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
You no respect my own privacy to my life.

Speaker 5 (06:12):
It was just being irresponsible with you know, being under
this shit and allowing things to go out.

Speaker 3 (06:17):
My only thing was why you had to let doctor
Wumar down though, why they had to be white, Like what.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
Are you talking about on the table? I saw?

Speaker 2 (06:25):
How can I I don't know doctor who? I probably
will fuck with me anyway. Respect.

Speaker 3 (06:35):
Do you feel like the culture gave you grace or
you forced to heal in public whether you wanted to.
I feel like, if you listen to my music on
the back half of it, it's always been kind of fluid,
you know, it's always been pretty emotionally emotional, emotional and romantic,
and you know, and everything that wrap usually isn't.

Speaker 5 (06:58):
On the front on the front, on the front out
of it. Yeah, so I feel like it was prepared
for it. I live on the pre whimsical life anyway
how people perceive me, you know. So I feel like
the only people who are upset with people who viewed
me just because I'm like, I don't know how to
put it, like more feminine, that they were surprised and

(07:18):
that was the whole deconstruction thing, Like what does that
mean to mean?

Speaker 3 (07:22):
Yeah, did it make you realize that the illuminati not real?
Because you know, they say, when you're getting the industry,
you got to do strange things and then.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
You blow up. They told me, me, like Drake level
of that's the case.

Speaker 5 (07:33):
I heard it. I passed my own humiliation. They told me,
I got another ten years of that, so you know, I.

Speaker 1 (07:44):
Love the abnormal record too.

Speaker 3 (07:46):
What I'm saying, because you talk about how your whole
family with sex addicts, and I don't think.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
We don't have enough to listen to this ship.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
Have you here to talk to you about it?

Speaker 2 (07:57):
No? No, that's that's cold. That's that was important. That's
a poort record for.

Speaker 3 (08:00):
Me because I feel like we don't have enough conversations
about environment and how environment shapes us.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
Men don't have enough conversations about their.

Speaker 3 (08:08):
Formative years and how those formative years turn us into
the people that we becoming.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
Sometimes you got to unlearn a lot of that.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
You know, that's.

Speaker 5 (08:17):
Been the heaviest thing like and to do it without blaming,
to do it and realize that the men that should
take me to go cheat on their wives or whatever
that would I would call, you know, my uncles or whomever,
and my dad or whatever. They when I look at

(08:37):
their fathers and the lack of their lives, it's like
I can't I can only be so upset, you know
what I'm saying. I could take what happened to me
in the past or what I saw, but I got
to be responsible for that and I got to give
them grace because you know they a lot of them
don't have the same opportunities to see the world and
experience it as open as I am to have the growth,

(09:00):
So you know, it's my responsibility to at least give
them that. What's crazy is you talking to you talk
on the record about how when you were twelve, you know,
they said you want to see some nazzy shit, and
your daddy kept your stash and they basically was showing
you things.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
A lot of times guys.

Speaker 3 (09:12):
Showed the sons that, yeah, because they don't want their
sons to end up, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (09:16):
You end up hyper hyper sexualizing your kid and a
fearful preventative type of thing make them worse.

Speaker 3 (09:23):
Lokey, did y'all have So when you finally when you
came out, did you have a conversation with those men
that introduced you to that.

Speaker 5 (09:31):
They my uncle passed my I don't really talk to
my dad, so no, but I talked to the men
who's still in my life about it, and luckily most
of them are pretty positive influences. But it was good
to let's talk about what happened two people all look
up to.

Speaker 6 (09:47):
Did they understand when you went back like having that
conversation are they understanding or are they just positive because.

Speaker 5 (09:52):
They know only just knew, like they know exactly, but
they were like, this isn't that surprising?

Speaker 4 (09:58):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (10:00):
What did this experience teach you about masculinity?

Speaker 3 (10:04):
Especially in a genre that rewards a certain image of
what a man is supposed to be?

Speaker 1 (10:08):
It's what did it teach me?

Speaker 2 (10:13):
I guess?

Speaker 5 (10:14):
Like the most characteristics that are pushed are like negative,
you know, the promiscuous nature and how that's promoted, and
being cold. Being a good dad isn't like promoted. Being
like responsible isn't promoted. Being a leader of your community

(10:38):
without having to without getting the accolades is being a leader.
The emotion and how you treat people, that's not really there.
And real men cry, real men, you know what I mean?
Real men cry, real men feel things, and women question themselves.
But to go through life is like just sure of
yourself and being coming off invincible could just lead a

(11:03):
kid down the wrong way feeling like he gotta insulate
himself in that type of character, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (11:08):
So yeah, so what are your super powers? That's another
record I like on.

Speaker 5 (11:12):
That man, I got crazy empathy and as somebody who's
who's in constant recovery. Like I said, I mess up.
I'm not perfect. Nobody know a.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
Junkie like a junkie bro, Man, I feel like that's
what I'm here for.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
You feel like you was a junkie method.

Speaker 5 (11:34):
I go to AA and ship bro, And I'm comfortable
with being called a junkie from another junkie. Don't You
don't If you ain't never did drugs, I'll talk to
me about it. But if you are alcoholic, like just
because I drink today, I'm still alcoholic, Like you know
what I mean, That is gonna stay with me for
the rest of my life. And this is how I'm
genetically built too, you know what I mean. From a family, Yeah,

(11:55):
I'm already you know, predisposed to it.

Speaker 1 (11:58):
My mom's telling me that all the time.

Speaker 3 (11:59):
My Mom's all tell me and my brother watch that
alcohol because alcoholism runs in both sides of your family.

Speaker 4 (12:05):
Seeing that to me too and my grandma, and it's
an alcoholic.

Speaker 6 (12:07):
I tried to be a lot more disciplined now, like
I do challenge myself, like i'll fast, I'll set days
and times just to make sure that I can control
it a bit. Because you get to like socially doing
it so much, and then you start depending on it
for certain things like oh, I got to take a
shot before I do this, And and then once you
get around people that will call it out like he

(12:28):
be on me. And then I started to notice like,
all right, well, let me try and challenge myself to
like not because I would come in here in the
morning and be like, y'all need like two shots before
the show start, just to feel like.

Speaker 4 (12:37):
It wouldn't give two you know what I mean?

Speaker 6 (12:39):
But even like I'm thinking about college, like we would
drink before we went to class, was a drink too,
and I thought that it was regular because it's college.

Speaker 4 (12:44):
And then you get in real life.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
And you like, the college ain't real real life.

Speaker 4 (12:48):
It's like a simulator.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah, it's a bubble. Yeah. I felt the same way
on So.

Speaker 3 (12:54):
What do you think you were trying to run from
our escape when you was getting drunk?

Speaker 1 (12:58):
Like what was you numbing yourself to something?

Speaker 2 (13:00):
Yeah? Definitely, man, I got without.

Speaker 5 (13:02):
You know, I don't like going down the list of stuff,
but you know, I have unresolved parental stuff on both ends,
like respect to my relationship and my mom. We still
have stuff to work out and you know, just my
father and stuff. I feel I don't like getting too
heavy into it in my thirties, I'm like handle that
versus complaining about that.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
I complaining, yeah, but that you know, and then just
substance going from college.

Speaker 5 (13:27):
I mean it like I got signed when I was
twenty one, so and getting signed and getting thrust into
this world, especially then they're in the blog Eraro was
just and partying was normal like we used to in college.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
We used to drink ever Clear and set it on
no fun.

Speaker 6 (13:44):
So that was a challenge when you first got to
my college, Like if you could drink it, you get
through it.

Speaker 4 (13:49):
Your first Thursday Thursday like you had.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
It was kind of like.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
Just hearing the word of a clear.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
He was doing that, we was doing that. And what
school you go to? MTSU State University.

Speaker 4 (14:03):
I was so off of that.

Speaker 6 (14:04):
Right on super Power, I mean that's happy hour, that's
the you do like the radio skit, right, So you
do the radio skit, do you talk about your addiction?
You talk about your mom and how she's like crying
and still not helping, And are you tell me if
I'm wrong? Are you comparing what you're experiencing in the
entertainment industry, like that being your escapism, but then also
comparing that to like drug use being your escapism too,

(14:26):
and how both of them are kind of like feeding
the fire. Happy yeah, because I thought, I'm like, why
bring in why started with like the radio and like
the you know, unless you're signaling.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
Like, oh I just be making shit.

Speaker 4 (14:37):
Oh okay, yeah, I just.

Speaker 5 (14:38):
Be making stuff. A lot of stuff that I do
isn't necessarily like planned. It just I have patterns that
I recognize and I'm like, well, this does sound good
on the same project together. But the radio theme was
just something I wanted to do in your way.

Speaker 4 (14:52):
I've always interested because I heard that part and then
not just the name of it. I'm like, it's because it's.

Speaker 5 (14:57):
Not to cut you off, but it's because of the variety.
And the album is like to set it up thematical
because I don't really do concept album, but it's like
it's an underground RadioU it's a smortgage board of different
kinds of science. So it was like that and it's
just something. It set me up pretty good. When I
heard the beat doing that, It's easy for me to

(15:18):
come up with.

Speaker 4 (15:19):
How is Mom. You talk a lot about her on
the album, but you start out, I know she's on that.

Speaker 5 (15:22):
She she just she just went back to Tennessee. She
was out Cali with me last week. She's working with
special needs kids.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
We're good man.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
I love the acronym you have for mom, Man on
the Mission? Right?

Speaker 3 (15:37):
Oh yeah, yeah, exactly who made me think you got adam?

Speaker 2 (15:44):
I'll be writing this. I'll be I write the ship man.
I just be doing it in passing. It's writing.

Speaker 3 (15:49):
It's just the kind of second nature for me. Why
that acronym? Why you you're the man on the Mission?
Why is that Mom? I just thought it was cool.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
It's now even I guess I can make it. But
it was just cool. And I was the first verse.

Speaker 5 (16:03):
I kind of talked about my mom a little bit,
so it was like that, and I just started it
look cooler.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
Than Man on the Mission.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
Do you have a deep mother womb?

Speaker 2 (16:11):
No, not like deep. I think it's I empathize with
my mom's desire to have changed her life at some
point where like when she see what we we do,
or like my brother produced most of this album, right,
he produced half of it. I empathized with her desire to.

Speaker 5 (16:35):
You know, she kind of I know she wished she
could have done different things after especially after sameing what
we've been capable of doing with this determination. So I
empathize on that I wouldn't to have like a crazy
mother woman. I have a desire to take care of her,
though more than I I used to. I didn't used
to feel like I needed to besides like helping pay
bills that I needed.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
To take care of, but now I do. I feel
like it's my responsibility to take care on his ride with.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
Who took care of you the last five years?

Speaker 2 (17:03):
Him my sober buddy.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
Hmm? Was it what else kept you away? Or were
you just working the whole time?

Speaker 5 (17:13):
I was working the first like after we put out
you know what happened, like right when I put out
the album, like right right after I was still in
the rotation of a creative drought to an extent, but
it definitely like refueled me to just talk about my ship,
every aspect of it.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
How did how did your team at t D show
show up you during that time?

Speaker 2 (17:35):
Brandon was just like, don't start wearing purses. That was it.
He was like he was like a lady nigga.

Speaker 5 (17:42):
Just don't don't come up here wearing persons. I got
a big as back there, right, yeah, I still but
you know who am I?

Speaker 2 (17:51):
I can't speak on straight ship? You mean?

Speaker 1 (17:53):
I mean, how about you are? I mean, I don't know, man,
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (17:59):
I feel like I feel like I much like you know,
like a ship, like if the like if you brought
a ship and then you change the sale and you
change the floor and then you change the fucking metal
in it, is it the same ship?

Speaker 3 (18:14):
I don't think that's what you bright. I think you
can be in the ship, but it's a different path.
So you can be going straight, then you're off to
the left a little bit when you want.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
To feel like I am?

Speaker 5 (18:22):
I am My experience this more than anything, you know,
same thing with anything.

Speaker 1 (18:27):
The reason I asked about TV because Q was on
the album Real Brief right.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
No, No, he not Listen, we just did heavily promotion.

Speaker 4 (18:34):
No, who's that Q?

Speaker 3 (18:37):
I swear I thought you said Q at some point. No, brother, Oh,
I don't know why I thought that was Q.

Speaker 5 (18:43):
Okay, okay, Q not on it, but he was supporting.
He was talking to me the whole time about it.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
Did they make jokes.

Speaker 5 (18:49):
No, they're pretty they kind of know where to draw
the line. Yeah, Matt, probably will next time I see him,
you know, top.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
Dude, top of fun with you about to be saying,
I can't quote that man.

Speaker 5 (19:06):
Okay, you just say, keep your hand out the cookie jar.
I'll leave it at that, all right, just keep your
hand out.

Speaker 1 (19:16):
I get you.

Speaker 6 (19:16):
Yeah, I was trying to understand on their mind maybe
if you know, you know, okay, all right, okay, mhm, nothing,
I had nothing.

Speaker 1 (19:30):
You're making this awkward, man, if you got a question
to ask the man? The man here to have a
competion cookie jar.

Speaker 4 (19:35):
I thought cookies was for like the ladies.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
Oh yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
Thought she had something serious.

Speaker 6 (19:42):
I'm keeping out of the cookie jars. But they always
be like the cookie, like the you know, but why
you can't be there?

Speaker 2 (19:47):
You like cookies do?

Speaker 6 (19:49):
That's what I was trying to say. And I don't
understand why you can't have your hand in the cookie jar.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
Then just don't be greedy.

Speaker 5 (19:55):
Don't be greedy, don't be out here doing it, put
yourself in a compromised situations just.

Speaker 4 (19:59):
Because you because you are who you are.

Speaker 5 (20:01):
Faded in horny, just like told you.

Speaker 4 (20:06):
But you don't be faded like that. No more right
because you.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
No, no, but it's still you know, yeah, add it?

Speaker 5 (20:13):
Man, I'd be having to talk to people every day
and fucking like do a lot of personal maintenance. That
was another thing about even doing like the media stuff.
There was like I didn't want to sound like a
broken record, but I did lot. Last time I did
my media stuff, I did act like I was fucking okay,
and I wasn't.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
Oh yeah, but that's what I mean about having a
heal in public, Like I don't think that's fair to anybody.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
But like Prince said, like you signed up for.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
This, did you go?

Speaker 2 (20:40):
I don't know you did.

Speaker 5 (20:43):
I mean just because you didn't know, you didn't do
all the studying that you were supposed to do.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
You know it could and couldn't happen. You signed up
for it, but.

Speaker 6 (20:50):
I don't know if you could study enough to avoid
what happened to you because you were in a different
space like you are. You're you know, you're doing you're
doing drugs, you're doing any different things, so you're not
thinking as like straight as you.

Speaker 5 (21:00):
You're still responsible for yourself. Yeah, regardless, you're still responsible
for you.

Speaker 3 (21:05):
I think about how so many of our greats probably
died depressed, you know, dealing with high levels of anxiety,
probably driven to do more drugs and more drinks because
they couldn't be free to.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
Be who they were.

Speaker 3 (21:18):
Yeah, I think that's more of a prison than anything.
I think that's more of an indictment of us than
it is them.

Speaker 5 (21:25):
It's you know, man, the black spaces are so at
their best, like so beautiful and so celebratory of everybody.
At the same time, there are pretty rigid rules. It's
pretty archaic stuff then, you know, and nobody wants to

(21:45):
be ostracized, you know, at the end of it, I
think that's really it, and we just we slow to
change on the front. But black people, it's a million
versions of us with community.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
And with love. I feel like it's just the mainstream
idea of black that takes a while.

Speaker 4 (22:04):
You were when everything happened.

Speaker 6 (22:06):
You were in a relationship at the time, right, are
you still in a relationship now?

Speaker 2 (22:10):
I'm talking about my personal life.

Speaker 4 (22:11):
You were getting real personal.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
Talking about by dating it all? No more, I get you.

Speaker 6 (22:17):
I'm only I was only wondering because at the time
when it happened, I just wondered how it affected.

Speaker 5 (22:21):
Oh man, she was pissed. Yeah, she was just pissed
that it was out. She was like what, like, why
are you recording that ship? And I'm like, I didn't
even remember that ship?

Speaker 2 (22:33):
D Yeah, I was sitting there. You ever been to Zaxbyes. Yeah?
I was sitting.

Speaker 6 (22:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
I was sitting in his eating a chicken salad and
a fry. Don't know why I was eating together?

Speaker 1 (22:43):
That made you do all that?

Speaker 2 (22:45):
No, Matt, No, that's when it happened. Matt. He called me.
I was I'm sitting eating a chicken salad and he's like,
don't go online.

Speaker 5 (22:54):
I'm like what And him and top facetimed me together,
and that's very rare.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
I'm like, what do you mean?

Speaker 5 (23:02):
So I went and I was like, oh, but it
was I mean, I don't know, bro, I'm pretty I
pretty accept things. But the most part, outside of my
initial reaction of like what am I gonna do, it
was like, well, I fucking my bread.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
I'd be straight all right.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
I mean, as listen, you weren't committing a crime. You
just had your think.

Speaker 5 (23:28):
That's another thing about our community. It felt like a
crime to some people.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
Like, so you know what am I to do with that?

Speaker 1 (23:36):
Did people?

Speaker 3 (23:37):
Did the industry treat you different after that moment or
was it just behind the scenes, was as business as usual?

Speaker 5 (23:42):
No, I ain't seen nobody in five years, you know
on like industry things. I do these rounds and then
I kind of go be a little comfortable afterwards. So
you know, I couldn't tell no difference. Yeah, everybody sent
the verses back. The want no difference on that.

Speaker 4 (23:57):
You know, you mentioned your money didn't mess up money
at all.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
During I don't think so we're we're straight. Let's talk.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
Let's talk about that.

Speaker 3 (24:05):
Being from the country, because I'm from South Carolina, I
don't think people give us credit for how progressive we
can be.

Speaker 1 (24:09):
Yeah, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (24:10):
Of course you have your your closed minded people, but
for the most part, everywhethm.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
Yeah, but for the most part, I'm sure you got
love in the crypt hella love.

Speaker 5 (24:19):
It's it's way more fucking positive community and people like
to think. And people in the country are just curious
versus closed minded. They have a desire to leave, you know,
people want to see stuff. People be proud of you
when you go do some other shit we do to
get a bad rep for that type of stuff.

Speaker 6 (24:40):
I think it's people think like slower, lower, like the
lower you go, things like slow down, so like people.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
That just priority of work.

Speaker 5 (24:47):
I feel like in those places, you know, it's more
grounded versus being slow.

Speaker 3 (24:52):
Is this album more of a crowd for help? Are
a message of resilience?

Speaker 2 (24:57):
A message of resilience for sure, But.

Speaker 5 (24:59):
It's just for my junkies out there in my addicts
and my or my people going through any of that
type of stuff.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
It's a hug. It's my it's my hug back. Like
you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (25:07):
I appreciate y'all sending messages and sending mail and stopping
me in the store. And the weirdest when, the funniest
one is when you when when an older dude to
come up to me and target and be like, worry
about the people, man, And I'm like, I'm just looking.

Speaker 1 (25:25):
For socks, but.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
Thanks, you know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (25:29):
It's like that, But this is my music, is my
opportunity to hug people, you know what I mean. It's
the closest I can get to like ministry.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
Do I look high? That is that a feeling you've
you felt before?

Speaker 2 (25:41):
Do I look hor right now? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (25:48):
I mean that was That was probably the the most
personal one for me about everything I was going through.
Was it tough to write, No, it was refreshing anytime.
I don't have a problem writing like honest stuff. I
have a harder problem just occupying space with bullshit.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
I mean, being honest is easy.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
And that's that's what I got from the album.

Speaker 3 (26:11):
When I'm listening to the album, I'm like, he got
a lot more issues than that sex thing, like not
even it's really not really an issue, but you got
a lot of other things going on.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
You know, you reference your sister a lot. Yes, I couldn't.
I didn't understand is she missing? She was?

Speaker 2 (26:29):
She wasn't jail.

Speaker 5 (26:31):
She got out recently, but she was going for the
past like four or five years. And I ain't realize
how much like not being able to talk to my
sister on that level would be, and especially talking to
her when she's in a pretty down situation, and like
it's hard for me to be like she's going great,
who were going whatever? When she's not doing well. That

(26:52):
was that was a big part of it, and having
my connection with my sister despite like my relationship with
my dadd is super important.

Speaker 3 (27:00):
What did I mean? You've always been open about your
your mental health as well? What did what does? What
did rock Bottom actually look like you? Even after everything
happened with.

Speaker 5 (27:10):
Man going to shout out to the people at THUMBA
McMillan and Torrance, I went to outpatient for about a year,
So it was like that, it was That's what it
looked like for me. It was building myself back up
and just learning to love myself and realizing like the
reloving myself, realizing the only thing I did wrong was

(27:31):
how I did it.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
Or how it was like behaving.

Speaker 5 (27:34):
Of course the substance issues, but who I am is
the problem. It's just sometimes how you do it ain't.

Speaker 6 (27:40):
Right on h do I Look how you talk about
loving yourself and somebody saying to you, maybe you saying
to yourself, but don't do it too much, don't love
yourself too much.

Speaker 5 (27:50):
Love yourself, but don't do too much like you know
what I'm saying, don't don't like, don't go overboard with
all this ship. Basically really just don't get fucked up
just because you in a in a zone of trying
to immediately numb out and and and you know catched
that euphoria.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
You know, it's more it's on that type of zone.

Speaker 5 (28:14):
Just don't do too much, don't don't overdrink, don't overdo it,
don't over ego.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
Just don't do too much over ego.

Speaker 3 (28:20):
It is very important, very important. People don't talk about
the ego enough. There's a great book I love that.
I actually recommended that Everybody called Ego Is the Enemy
by Ryan Holliday. No for real, It's a really really
good read. What did you learn about your ego in
that moment? Because that's it feels like the ego would
be completely script away from you in that moment.

Speaker 5 (28:42):
What I learned about my ego in that moment, shit
that it had like balloon to the point that my
safety wasn't a priority.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
You thought you could get away with anything, man.

Speaker 5 (28:56):
And I was just being a trashy person really honestly,
like being on all that type of shit and oversharing myself.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
Like I pray for.

Speaker 5 (29:08):
Anybody I've trespassed on in the past in those moments,
anybody I've offended in that like not being myself, and
I appreciate the grace that those people in my life
have given me you know what I'm saying, and forgiveness.

Speaker 6 (29:22):
Is there a balance between giving yourself grace for that
too personally though, because like how much of that also
is like addiction versus like who you actually show up
to be you once you get through.

Speaker 5 (29:29):
I feel like you got to go through the process
of recovery and just again like seeking therapy to forgive yourself,
you know, and you gotta understand you.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
You got to understand it.

Speaker 5 (29:44):
That kind of is still a possible version of you.
You know what you're saying, So I don't feel like
you just separate that from the person. You gotta be
aware of, like how bad you can get?

Speaker 3 (29:57):
When did you get to the nutting hide phase of
the story? That's another great song on that man.

Speaker 5 (30:04):
Honestly, bro Doci's Denial is a Is a River made
me really think about how I was, Like, I guess
it was like lion Bio mission to just I feel
like I can't just be honest with my homeboy and
be honest with this girl that I'm dating and knows everything.

(30:27):
I'm like, if my superpower is being honest all the time.
To go back to what she said, it's more of that.

Speaker 3 (30:34):
You remember that Denialogan and you know the song, but
you know where that came from. That came from Wendy Williamshaw.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
I was there. I was her co host.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
I know that.

Speaker 3 (30:41):
And this guy, this guy, this woman called in to
say that her boyfriend was on the download, but she
wasn't really accepting it.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
So Wendy told.

Speaker 3 (30:51):
Her he's gay, he's homosexual, he likes guys.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
Basically accepted.

Speaker 5 (30:56):
Yeah, it's easier for your out, for your for your
mental just accept with the front of.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
I love to see.

Speaker 3 (31:03):
I love the story you telling on this album, right,
because to go from the new Sublime, the mom the
same shit boys and superficial scared to look down happy hour?

Speaker 1 (31:10):
Do all look high?

Speaker 3 (31:11):
Ain't giving up? Get to know you, cameras act normal,
tense states away, then nothing to high. Then once you
free yourself, you got a super power.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
Yeah that's ill, thank you. I mean, of course that's intentional.

Speaker 5 (31:22):
Yeah, I got I got helped from from Matt and
Musa and shit, from what I'm understanding, Dot had a
hand in it and Top. They definitely convinced me to
go go with this track was my track was originally
was more centered around the radio thing.

Speaker 4 (31:39):
Okay.

Speaker 5 (31:39):
I was kind of like I wrote everything, but I
was still trying to put it in a way if
you listen to it, you could either hear it or.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
I guess that was mine.

Speaker 4 (31:50):
You wanted to dumb it down for people.

Speaker 2 (31:52):
I guess I was just afraid of being so blunt.

Speaker 4 (31:54):
I feel like you weren't really as blunt.

Speaker 6 (31:56):
I mean you were blunt, but I still feel like
I had to listen to it like twice before, like
some of the stuff you put it in there very subtlely,
or like it's like a backtrack while you're saying other things, so.

Speaker 4 (32:04):
You got to hear it real. I feel like people
still really have to listen to you read it.

Speaker 5 (32:10):
If you read it, I was very intentional, and we
got the lyrics in places.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
If you read it, it's right there. It's real, bold
and blunt.

Speaker 6 (32:19):
If I thought it was great, though, I feel like
we went on to journey to you, because when I
first started listening to it, I was like, this is
so dark, and like I just want him to be okay,
and it's he okay, is Mom okay? His sister okay?
And then by the end of it, like once you
get to get to know you. It's like now you
can vibe a little bit and like, I don't know,
like it not uplift, but like the music physically like changes.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
It goes through a wave. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
But also you'd be shocked how many people don't know
what happened.

Speaker 5 (32:45):
Bro, Yeah, you know what I'm saying. So, which is
I fuck with people? Mind in their own fucking business.
I'm not mad at that. I'm never mad at that
type of shit, you know. And it's like, that's not
my identity. This is something that happened. For like, the
how I behave with it determines more than anything else.

Speaker 3 (33:04):
That's a great way I always tell people, don't let
your set back become your identity. It's a lot of
people who have a I don't even know if you
would call it a setback.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
It was just something. It was an unfortunate situation for
me personally.

Speaker 2 (33:14):
This is the best project ever made.

Speaker 5 (33:16):
And if that ship would have happened, who knows if
me and my brother would be working together in this capacity.
Who knows if right now if I would probably be
still sneaking a giga You know what I mean? I
feel like I said, I feel like everything I do
is by guy's hand, and that's why it happens.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
What did healing require from you that music alone couldn't fix?

Speaker 5 (33:44):
Man has a cutout being annoyed all sometimes and just
you know, the one thing I gotta do is quit
smoking weed. My my dude, my counselor is like you cool.
But still if you cut that out, your risk factors lower.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
So it's just on that. You know, maintaining myself is.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
The main thing if we like a gateway other things.

Speaker 5 (34:08):
Not necessarily some people believe it is. I don't necessarily
think it is, but I'm not a professional, you know.

Speaker 6 (34:16):
I was watching a sermon yesterday, temper Asso speaking at
my church, and he has this book called The Missing Piece,
and he was talking about like when you're in the
midst of all of the noise and the drama and
the chaos, a lot of the things you lean on
to like settle you during that time become the vices
that you should get away from.

Speaker 4 (34:31):
And people use weed to do that.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
It's a crutch.

Speaker 6 (34:33):
Yeah, And he was saying that, like we know that,
like weed isn't like the end all be all, it's
not horrible, but if it's something you're depending on like
that that disrupts your piece because you don't get real
peace until you can get past something.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
With similar to what you were saying about the social drinking.

Speaker 5 (34:49):
For me, it's like if I got to change my
mental or my state of body to go be around people,
I don't even need to be there, Like I don't
need to be in that environment, and I haven't grown
to the place that I'm ready to be there. Besides, like,
you know the challenge you're going, But if I feel comfortable, no,
drinking ain't gonna make it better. I'm gonna end up

(35:10):
being friends with you for an hour and then forget
about it. And then when I see you again, you're
gonna have this energy that I can't match, you know.

Speaker 2 (35:21):
So it's like it's better just to be yourself.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
It is because and also I hate the anxiety of
it all.

Speaker 3 (35:26):
I hate being around a bunch of people that I
don't know, and my mind is like, what.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
Are they thinking about me? What do they know about me?
You know what I mean?

Speaker 5 (35:34):
It's so crazy, and you know, like they you know
you probably they're not even thinking, they're.

Speaker 2 (35:39):
Not even considering that. And just being in your mind
that much as can be torturous.

Speaker 1 (35:45):
Tell me about boy and Red, which is shows you
a lot of love.

Speaker 5 (35:50):
That's my sister man's boy Red Man. It's really that's
another to beat my brother mate.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
But it was just some whimsical ship. It was some
whimsical ship. And on top of that, I was really
inspired by a princess if I.

Speaker 5 (36:02):
Was your girlfriend. That was another thing about the deconstruction.
I was like, what does that mean for my relationship
with women? Like how am I supposed to like treat
them in a more compassionate I feel like being in
this industry or just this period, it'll have you kind

(36:26):
of using people, you know, even if it's just like
for entertainment on some like I only fuck with you,
We just gonna dates because you're cute or whatever type
of shit. It made me really re examine how I
treat people and with more not even with more compassion,
but stop fucking people I don't really fuck with because

(36:47):
I'm abusing them by doing that to a certain degree, right,
because leading somebody on, Like if you don't really fuck
with them, and you hitting them up because you bored,
lead them to alone.

Speaker 3 (36:56):
But what if this person just want to fuck to
this person like yo, the.

Speaker 5 (37:00):
Power dynamics don't match, and you recognize your power dynamic
even with it's two men recognize your power dynamic.

Speaker 6 (37:07):
Is that why you say because one of your lyrics,
you're like, if if let me be your boyfriend, if
I can't be your boyfriend, let me just be a girlfriend.
You're talking about the fact that like as a as
a girlfriend, like as your friend. I understand when the
power dynamic is often when I'm hurting you, and men
with women normally don't do that.

Speaker 5 (37:22):
I was saying on that. It was more so, I'll
be whatever you need me to be. If I could
be with you, and I could, I I'll cook for you,
clean for you, I'll drop you off at work if.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
You need me to.

Speaker 5 (37:36):
I'll go to work with you if you need me too.
Like it's like I'll be whatever. It's very much so
between Princess if I was your girlfriend, and then I
got the title from this singer Girl in Red.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
She has a song called I Want to Be Your
Girlfriend that same those two songs influenced me to write
that off.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
So what if it's a woman, right, what if it
got more money? Right? You know she's a big artist.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
Then I'm gonna be a stay at home dad. You
know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
I just want you to come over and eat both
real quick, and then you're out.

Speaker 5 (38:08):
If anybody wants me to be a stay at home dad,
your damn let me know.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
I'm really good at it. Let me know.

Speaker 1 (38:16):
It won't just be any woman.

Speaker 3 (38:17):
No, I got to be a woman that can make
sure you're good at home, like like like.

Speaker 2 (38:22):
Nia along or something.

Speaker 6 (38:24):
She said, you gotta signed das and you better text
it back in least than twenty four hours.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
I've text back right now.

Speaker 1 (38:31):
So you're willing to be used.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
I'm willing, Yeah, use me.

Speaker 5 (38:35):
We're here to be used. We here, we wechoose. But
like it's how, it's how do you want to be used?

Speaker 3 (38:40):
I always say if you can't be used, you're useless.
But don't let people misuse you. Yeah, exactly, yes, but
I think with your long call you over to eat
that box that's not be used, you're perfectly okay.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
Yeah, I'm fine. I'm a cook after its for sure.
I make a crazy crap case. I make a crazy brand.
You know, to what is she don't like seafood?

Speaker 5 (39:05):
We make a crazy salad, make a nuts minis, dude,
make a nuts salad.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
That's nasty.

Speaker 5 (39:11):
That's nasty. Not so solid. You know you didn't say
that we heard, bro, you heard you tell what we heard,
Seemen what we heard.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
Okay, I walked into that one.

Speaker 1 (39:27):
Now, are you in a better place?

Speaker 2 (39:28):
Now?

Speaker 1 (39:29):
Are just more honest about where you are?

Speaker 2 (39:31):
Man? Shitty? But she's great.

Speaker 5 (39:33):
I don't have like bills do or anything like that,
And I'm on top of myself mentally today.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
I'll let you know tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (39:40):
That's a good way to look at it.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
Right now, I'm okay. Yeah, I don't feel no tenseness
in my stomach.

Speaker 3 (39:46):
The crazy thing is, once again, I want people to
hear this project and that situation that happened with the tape,
that's that's really nothing compared to the real life personal
things that you are trying to.

Speaker 2 (39:59):
Yeah, it was a symptom of everything everything else. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:05):
Is this album closure or just the beginning of a
different version of Isaiah A Shot?

Speaker 5 (40:09):
I feel like if you tracked me from all my projects,
I've been able to like kind of time capsule, time capsule,
the different stages I was in twenty four, twenty one
to twenty four and twenty nine going on thirty to
now thirty four.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
You know, I feel right now how I thought.

Speaker 5 (40:27):
I would have felt about my life and music around
in my twenties.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
I'm like.

Speaker 5 (40:34):
Motivated to keep going. I wouldn't call it a different phase.
It's not up to me to do that. Like, I
don't look at myself in that degree. I'm just here today.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
I think, you know, as a human when you have
gone to another level.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
Though, this is the first time that I've enjoyed my sobriety.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
Wow, wow wow, And the.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
First time I could say I'm doing it for myself.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
What does that feel like? What is enjoying your sobriety
feel like?

Speaker 5 (40:58):
Man, if it was like eleven forty five at night,
sitting in a hotel in New York, that bed looked
real good and waking up not fatigue, feels real good
and shit, yeah, like not feeling drawn, you know, because
it's come from an emptiness like I want to be

(41:20):
entertained by people you don't know, or just being out
like that. To an extent, it comes from an emptiness
from me when I indulge in it. So if it
feels good, it feels good to end my call in
my day talking to him or on the phone with
my kid. It feels better doing that than having a
bottle of tequila. And man, as a reflex sucks. They

(41:42):
haven't had as a reflexing like almost a year, and
that's a blessing.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
What have you replaced those vices with the exercise?

Speaker 5 (41:49):
Oh yeah, I exercise a lot. I haven't gotten a
lot of gains just because my die. I could have
a lot of.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
Meat and a lot of sugar and stuff. So I'm still, yo,
you gotta stop, you gottam you gotta fucking stop.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
All right, you're doing it.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
Yeah, I ain't got a pause. Nothing that is true.

Speaker 5 (42:11):
Yeah, nothing's pause. Yeah, nothing's pause for me. Take it
how you want to. We can do this.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
We can do this.

Speaker 5 (42:23):
But you know, just it's been maintaining myself. I definitely
work out of workout every day. We do a lot
of journaling. He paints, he's my little brother. Is a
fucking battery from me of influence. He's the most I
don't know. I just don't want to see my linigga
cry uh standing over me passed out on my couch.

(42:47):
I don't want to see that.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
No more.

Speaker 3 (42:49):
Did he did he like? Was he the energy you
needed to make this album.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
He slowed me down, okay or anything. Yeah, so he
was definitely like, I ain't doing that. I ain't going
there Like he's definitely slowed me down. I needed that.

Speaker 5 (43:05):
And again, everything happens, I believe divinely for me.

Speaker 3 (43:08):
Absolutely, did pain make this album better or did it
just make it feel more necessary?

Speaker 5 (43:16):
Pain was just the honesty. It was just true. Pain
just existed. I don't know if it made it better.
I hate that like that we have to channel the
darkest shit for entertainment.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
Like I don't like to think that.

Speaker 5 (43:31):
I like to think that hopefully my next projects better
than this and it doesn't have to be as you know, heavy,
But it was necessary and it was a step that
was taken.

Speaker 1 (43:41):
So I don't know if that's all fault.

Speaker 3 (43:43):
Like I think about that often, like you played with
the cards, you're delt right, Yeah, if you.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
Dealt with trauma.

Speaker 3 (43:50):
But then God also gives you this gift of whether
it's entertainment or comedy, whatever it is.

Speaker 5 (43:53):
Lack entertainment at its highest usually is rewarded for being
fucking sad.

Speaker 2 (43:59):
We go through some ship, go through some sad ship,
like you can't.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
You can't get it. We're gonna be all right if.

Speaker 2 (44:05):
If we do something.

Speaker 6 (44:07):
But like even I think too, the reason why it's
like people tap into it so much is because a
lot of times we breeze past the things that we're
really going through. So when somebody take a minute to
actually sit down and do a project like what you've done,
they're like, oh wow, someone's finally like doing it.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
Like you need somebody to talk to you. For some people,
that is that's.

Speaker 4 (44:25):
That like you breeze past.

Speaker 6 (44:27):
You said, I don't want my brother sending over me crying,
but make it waking me up, like not sober. And
you said that just so like just move on to
the next thing. And I'm like, I looked at him
because I'm like, oh my god, hearing that I have
a little brother, I can't imagine how I would feel
as the older sibling and how that would hurt me.

Speaker 4 (44:42):
But you have been through it. You just it's just
something you just go through.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
I think. I mean that's I think it's something built.

Speaker 5 (44:48):
I think it's like I wouldn't call that another superpower,
but I don't compartmentalize as much as it would sound.
But maybe I do that's maybe it takes some unpacking too,
but yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
I don't think.

Speaker 5 (45:02):
I guess this is how my mom is set up. Really,
I take things for how it is and I don't
question it too much. I'm like, oh, that's bad, him crying,
him cry back. I don't need to think too hard
about that, you know.

Speaker 3 (45:18):
I mean that's the power, because you don't want to
hurt the people who love you.

Speaker 5 (45:21):
Yeah, especially people who I know. I know he deal
with his own shit, but I'm like this, Nigga.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
Is a pretty godly upstanding person, you know, or at
least attempts to be. And it's good to have that
kind of measurement of a personal round.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
Was there anything on this album that you were scared
to say all out?

Speaker 5 (45:42):
No, besides thinking like a lot a handful of my friends,
a handful of people on top of my own shit,
it was just talking about aconomal like my friend's mom's
being getting shit, or it was like a lot of
our friends, moms and people and our families came out
after we were out of high school, and so it's

(46:02):
not just black dudes.

Speaker 2 (46:04):
It's like it's the women too.

Speaker 5 (46:05):
It was that and the passive aggressiveness of seeing a
woman in an unhappy relationship and just doing it just
because of what the expectation of what not just being
a man with what to be a woman in the
black society is, you know, again to not be ostracized.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
So you might want kids, but you don't want a man.

Speaker 5 (46:26):
You might want to experience that, or even you know,
same way on the other end, somebody might want kids
and don't want a wife or whatever. It's just understanding
that I was mostly nervous about, like having a conversation
with somebody.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
I haven't had one, but like maybe.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
What the person he was rapping about, or just yeah,
have you had it yet?

Speaker 2 (46:45):
No? No, I don't even get called onto it, which
is cool.

Speaker 1 (46:50):
Not really, because it sounds to me like you want
to have the conversation.

Speaker 5 (46:52):
No, I want people to be okay. I ain't got
to talk to me about nothing. I just want everybody
to be okay. You know again, this is this is
despite the subject matter.

Speaker 3 (47:01):
To me, this is ministry or you know, the biggest
thing that we can do for each other as people
stop acting.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
Like everything is so black and white.

Speaker 3 (47:10):
That's why I hate social media so much, because we
take these complex things and try to make them A
or B right around as.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
We try to debate it instead of understanding, and.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
It might not be meant to understood. It might just
be meant to talk about.

Speaker 3 (47:25):
You might understand exactly what you're going through, and it
might not be up for nobody else to understand.

Speaker 6 (47:30):
But the issue is though, but once it's online, then
people are debating, trying to fake understands.

Speaker 5 (47:36):
Some people feel public opinion once you do that, and
that's the gift the curse of the Internet.

Speaker 6 (47:43):
And that's too like when every time, like when you said,
I signed up for this and he's like, no, you didn't.
I feel like it's a difference in like the age
groups as well.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
Because.

Speaker 5 (47:52):
I knew what I was getting into, Like I didn't
know the possibilities of everything for sure.

Speaker 6 (47:57):
New you know, we were on the same Yeah, I
feel like you got to take what comes with it.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
Let's how are you thirty four?

Speaker 4 (48:06):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (48:06):
Okay, you.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
Ain't so mad.

Speaker 4 (48:11):
He's so mad it didn't work because he's you know,
he predates the Internet.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
I'm forty seven.

Speaker 4 (48:16):
Yes, yeah, that's kind of crazy.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
I've been. I grew up with him.

Speaker 4 (48:21):
Yeah, same, same, same.

Speaker 6 (48:23):
But the reason I say that is because like he
is so far in his career that like I feel
like he doesn't they have the privilege to be like
I didn't sign up for that and I'm not going
to do that today, and we can do that, but
like it's so different for us.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
Sometimes I didn't have Wikipedia or people.

Speaker 4 (48:40):
Doing TikTok reviews, and you'd be like, no, I'm good.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
What is the thing? I don't care what your sexuality is.
That's my point. It really does not matter is the music, Jaman.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
If this album was whacked, I would be saying, how
this album is whack and it's not because of some sex.

Speaker 4 (48:56):
But you're older and you're involved in you have sense.

Speaker 6 (49:00):
It's like if everybody could be that, like the rationale
could be there, it would be so much less of
a lot of things.

Speaker 1 (49:08):
But you know, you really, I'm not joking.

Speaker 3 (49:10):
You owe nobody no explanation if you choose too cool,
but you really don't not.

Speaker 2 (49:14):
Only do it for the loo niggas who man, thanks bro,
you need to hear it.

Speaker 5 (49:21):
Yeah, Like I really, that's the only people I owe
is the people you know in the ministry.

Speaker 6 (49:28):
And that's the hard spot because it's like when you're
vulnerable like you aren't. People connect to you and they
need it. But at the same time you got the
people on the other side, and some people run away
from being vulnerable because of that.

Speaker 5 (49:38):
What's crazy is you won't see negativity unless you seek
it out, turn your phone off and then and then
if somebody is negative enough to hop in my comments section,
they really just like me.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
You really like me a lot.

Speaker 5 (49:52):
So it's like, just do just deal with your insecurities
on your own, and I'll be here when you're When you're.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
Done, you're gonna put that tape out. Tysting guys. They
might have seen what you was doing.

Speaker 5 (50:03):
That ship was not sexy, that she was not sexy.
That shit kept my stock like a motherfucker bed.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
How many people was in your DMS? Like, Yo, what's up?

Speaker 2 (50:10):
It was a lot?

Speaker 1 (50:11):
See what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (50:14):
It's like, it's like, nobody with me, nobody's that attractive
when they're coming at you on that end of your life,
you know.

Speaker 6 (50:21):
It wasn't nobody that you like. Well, they sent their numbers,
so let me at least just.

Speaker 5 (50:26):
You know, maybe if you need something here my number past.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
Yeah, a lot of makeup artists hit me up.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
Listen.

Speaker 5 (50:47):
Gave me an opportunity to expand my audience music. It's like,
oh you like this, so we everywhere with it.

Speaker 3 (50:56):
I wonder because hip hop is gonna always struggle with
conversations around sexuality, vulnerability, masculinity.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
Do you think what you went through moved the culture
forward in anyway?

Speaker 5 (51:05):
I mean, I think it was predated a little bit
with me, with with Frank and the ship Tyler did
and all that kind of ship.

Speaker 2 (51:14):
And then I feel like you just gotta not go
out like.

Speaker 5 (51:17):
Back in the day, I shouldn't have said that. Who
I shouldn't have said that? But how the internet did that?

Speaker 2 (51:22):
You know? That was that look crazy?

Speaker 1 (51:24):
But yeah, that's you. You kind of had that same.

Speaker 5 (51:26):
Yeah, like it was like we was fifteen years past that.
So you know, I think I was I just hitting
a nice little soft cushion.

Speaker 2 (51:34):
My bad, bro. I ain't even mean to bring up.

Speaker 1 (51:36):
Your ship like that.

Speaker 2 (51:37):
That was wrong with me.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
I'll edit it.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
We edit it.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
Oh, ple's it. They don't need to cause people un
necessary pain.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
Yeah, that's nice.

Speaker 3 (51:44):
When people look back at this chapter of your life,
what do you hope they understand that headlines got wrong?

Speaker 5 (51:51):
M I don't think people will look back at this
chapter like that after everything is going on, like this
is be a book note. And I feel like it's
not that surprising if you know my music and you've
seen me. I'm like, if I wasn't already gay, I

(52:13):
was hell affectionate, you know hell, you know, so it
ain't tripping on that ship.

Speaker 2 (52:23):
I am who I am. I'm here, you know, I don't.

Speaker 5 (52:26):
Know too many motherfuckers with just four projects who I've
been up here and been seeing you for the past
fifteen years, or I'm here doing something for somebody.

Speaker 3 (52:34):
I respect anybody who's not afraid to be who they are.

Speaker 1 (52:39):
That's just it.

Speaker 3 (52:41):
I don't care, don't I don't care, you know what
I'm saying. And I'm sure it's a bunch of other
people that feel that way too.

Speaker 5 (52:47):
I think most people, we all we all got somebody
in our family, you know what I'm saying, to some
extent of who's by gay or somewhere in between or
transitioning or whatever. So course, and it's like, not even
to make it a thing, it's like you're I don't know,

(53:09):
on a scientific level, you're very much predisposed if you
come from a broken to have some type of sex curiosity.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
Paper it might be wrong, really, yeah, Hella.

Speaker 4 (53:20):
Because you're searching for a need for something.

Speaker 5 (53:22):
It's just the dynamics of relationships. I was like, you know,
if you if you only grew up around women, you
know some of your habits, or if you only grew
up around men, some of your habits and how.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
You view things.

Speaker 5 (53:35):
A girl that group that was raised by men, you
can't be surprised when you start liking girls. A girl
that was raised by men, you can't be mad or
surprised when she starts liking girls.

Speaker 3 (53:48):
I think it's just something. Yeah, like you said, pre
I just think it's biological. I don't know if it's.

Speaker 2 (53:53):
I think it's a combination.

Speaker 5 (53:54):
Some people are some some shits nurture, some s's nature,
and some of it's a combination. And it's not up
to me to determine it's gonna that should take up
too much of my life besides just being okay with it.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
You are you are, you are, you are.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
So what's the more of the story, man, from everything
you've been through? Is it fame? Exposure? Healing all of.

Speaker 5 (54:15):
It by my album so I can take care of
my family it's been awful. It's been awful. The bills
are high. Uh, the government's weird. They want to take
parks away from people. And a whole bunch of other
ship that I don't have to get into because I
don't get paid to do that. But definitely just a

(54:35):
boy the album Man By the album. It'll do something
nice for you, do something positive for your mental and
either you're gonna love it and feel seen or you're
gonna put it up until you need it.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
But it's gonna come.

Speaker 4 (54:49):
Back around and it can go with the vinyls too.

Speaker 2 (54:51):
The website, Yeah, you can get the all alternative vinyls.

Speaker 4 (54:55):
That one, the one and my.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
Mom at my grandma's house.

Speaker 5 (54:59):
Me and uh, my manager Matt shot that one at
the bi Centennial Library in Chattanooga. It's the library and
me and my mom went to when I was a kid,
when she was studying for a degree. So a lot
of this stuff is really personal. And then this is
one of our really good friends, Steve Harrington. He designed
this forest and it's an animated version of the story

(55:21):
of Cyphysis pushing the boulder up the hill. That was
that was originally what my cover was supposed to be
okay till somebody told me it's too expensive.

Speaker 1 (55:29):
That's how you felt. You felt like, yeah, wow, explain
that story for you who don't remember.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
Man, I barely remember.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
Now let's look it up, because now you got me.
I'm like, oh, you know, I heard the story.

Speaker 5 (55:41):
I was between the story of syphasis and like using
something like Atlas. But then I feel like that was
too egotistical to think I really had to my shoulders.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
Yeah, cyphisis boulder. What was this s Yeah.

Speaker 3 (55:53):
The mephisphicis who was condemned by the gods to roll
a massive boulder upper hill for eternity, only for it
to roll back down on each time.

Speaker 6 (56:01):
Wow, Like I got it. I'm here and it's back
into different things. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (56:10):
And he was punished for his extreme hubris, thinking himself
better than the gods, and his tendency the trick depth.
His punishment is a popular symbol of futile, repetitive, and
frustrating task.

Speaker 4 (56:20):
You feel like the bad things happened to you, like
for a punishment, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
Yeah, why not choice punishment for my actions? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (56:30):
Four choices?

Speaker 5 (56:30):
Yeah, Yeah, I feel like God directly if I said
something about you that came from a place of men
like Hubris an ego. I'm likely to like fuck my
foot up when I leave out of here and I
don't even know how, or I'll lose some ship. It

(56:51):
happens for every action, there's a reaction in my life.

Speaker 3 (56:53):
I saw how I saw how you felt that immediately
when you mentioned dude's name just now a little while ago, immediately.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
You want like, that's wrong. I'm like, who am I?
Who am I to do that? It's not right.

Speaker 3 (57:04):
Yeah, it's been awful, man, Isaiah Shot. It's been a
pleasure at least to talk to you.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 3 (57:11):
Go get the album. It's been awful. Everywhere you buy
music now it's the breakfast club.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
Hold every day a weak click, yours up the breakfast club.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
You don't finishing.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
Y'all done,