November 27, 2023 • 40 mins
In this episode, Tudor interviews Vice President Mike Pence and his daughter Charlotte Pence Bond. They discuss their book "Go Home for Dinner: My Dad and I", emphasizing the importance of family time and sharing personal experiences. They also touch on the role of faith in their lives and the concept of forgiveness, particularly in relation to the events of January 6th. The conversation also explores Vice President Pence's political journey and potential future plans. The Tudor Dixon Podcast is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - nw episodes debut every Monday, Wednesday, & Friday. For more info visit TudorDixonPodcast.com
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. I am grateful today
to be joined by Vice President Mike Pence and his
daughter Charlotte Pence to talk about the book they wrote
together called Go Home for Dinner My Dad and I.
This book is like really important to me because my
dad and I had a very close relationship and this
interview means a lot to me because I lost my
(00:22):
dad to cancer last year and he was also someone
who believed that it was very important to go home
for dinner, and I wanted to share a little story
about that because sometimes you don't realize when you're a
little kid that this is happening. You know, you don't
always know what the behind the scenes of your parents is.
But when I was older, I worked with my dad.
(00:43):
I had the blessing of being able to work with
him for many years. And one of the guys that
he worked with had worked with him when we lived
in Illinois and was one of his vice presidents at
the time, and so my dad we lived in Illinois,
in the suburbs of Chicago, and my dad had to
every week go to a facto in Kiekuk, Iowa. And
when I was so you know, that was when I
(01:04):
was a kid. And then when I was in my
twenties and thirties, I was working with one of the
guys that worked with him in Iowa and he told
me this story. He said, you know, your dad was
such a bore and it was meant to be a
huge insult to me. And I could tell. We were
on a business trip, and he said, we used to
have to go to Iowa and we would go out
every night, and your dad would always go home. He
(01:25):
would make that five hour drive home because he always
said it was more important to be home than it
was to be out with the guys, bonding with the team,
and it was really important to us that he'd be
bonding with the team. And it was like this moment
where I thought, that was my dad. It was so
important for him to be with us that he would
definitely take that five hour drive at night to make
(01:49):
sure that in the morning he was there when we
woke up. And I read this, I was I was
looking at some of the stories in this book and
it just reminded me so much of that story. And
I think that it's beautiful because living in a family
focused household is important, and right now we see that
there's a breakdown in society on that too many people
(02:10):
are not living in that family focused household and we
have moms and dads both working life gets in the
way and people go, well, I'll make that quality time,
but I don't have that quantity time available to my kids.
And really it's both that matter, and so I want
to bring in Vice President Mike Pens and his daughter
(02:32):
Charlotte to talk about how that quantity time meant so
much in their relationship and talk about their book, Go
Home for Dinners. Welcome to the podcast. I appreciate you
being here.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Well, well, thank you, tutor. I almost feel like we
ought to just sign off after that moving opening and
our sympathies in the passing of your father sounds like
a wonderful well. Thank you reminds me a lot of
my fault. Was a salesman, helped build a small business
in a small town, but had the same practice wherever
(03:07):
he was at the end of a sales day, he
was driving home and it was at the dinner table.
And when we got the idea for this book, it
came from an answer I used to give people back
when I was in Congress for twelve years. People would
sometimes come up to me after I'd started to show
up on the house floor more often and on cable television,
(03:30):
they'd asked that flattering question, which is where do you
see yourself in five years? You've gotten that question before,
and because everybody Washington's got a plan, right, well, I
would always answer it the same way. I'd say where
do I see myself in five years? I'd say home
for dinner. Because I never needed to be motivated to
(03:51):
want to make a difference in the world. I never
need to be motivated to work hard. But I learned
early on, and we try and write about it in
this book, some hard lessons along the way, early unsuccessful
efforts at politics, that I became convicted, both in my
faith and through my upbringing that I needed to really
put my family first. But in doing that, I think
(04:15):
it's really enabled us to do the things that we've
been able to do. But the joy of being able
to write this with my daughter, who is the best
writer in the family by far, was a particular joy
for me. So thanks for having us on here in
your story.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Absolutely well, that was why I thought this was so
neat because when my dad came to me years ago.
I mean this was early two thousand. He came to
me and he said, I'm buying a foundery in Michigan,
and I want you to come there and work with me.
And my first reaction was, no way. There is no
way I'm going to work with you. Because families work together,
they fight, it's going to be a disaster. I'm not
(04:51):
doing it. And my dad is a great salesman. So
he finally got convinced to me to do this, and
it was the best experience that those ten year of
working together. It was so cool because you don't necessarily
when you're in the household, you don't necessarily see the
hard work that your parents are doing, because you see
the parent and not the worker. And I got to
(05:13):
see him in his element in what he did that
impacted the world, which was making steel castings for all
of this equipment we use every day, whether it's a
train or a tractor, it's impacting your life. And I
feel like Charlotte, you had the same experience. You got
to see your dad and see how his heart worked
for his service and what he did to impact the
(05:34):
world every day. What was that like for you to
kind of delve deep, especially at a time where you're
still in the spotlight, and it's a tough spotlight right now,
a very tough spotlight. So, as daughter, what's it like
to go through that?
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Yeah, you know, it's funny because I really relate to
what you said that, you know, you don't necessarily know
what your parents are doing while they're raising you. At
the same time, you're just kind of seeing that and
that's kind of your normal.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
So I do think my dad.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Has said in interviews since we've been doing promotions for
the book, that you know, it was hard for him
to like, it was hard to go home for dinner,
It was hard to be with his family.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
It wasn't really hard to work hard.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
And I don't think I really knew that as a kid,
And I think that's a testament to him and my
mom and and kind of the culture that they built
in our family, that family did come first. It didn't
seem like a burden to him to be with us
on Sundays and you know, coming home from dinner when
he could, and also taking us with him on trips
(06:41):
we got to go and kind of see him working
and going on trips as a congressman, which that was
just a cool thing to be able to do as
a kid. I think writing the book especially was impactful
for me because of the time that I'm at in
my life too. I just have had my first daughter,
my first kid, my daughter, and she really lined up
(07:06):
with this book. We started writing it right before she
was born, and it just was a good reminder all
the time for me to put her first, put my
husband first, over even this book, because I felt like
I couldn't go out and do these interviews later and
publish the book and be talking about how, oh yeah,
(07:27):
it's important for you to put your family first. If
I wrote the book and totally ignored my husband and
my daughter, I just felt like that would be hypocritical.
So I really tried to like focus on her as
much as I could, you know, and when she was
awake in the newborn stage, they're not awake for very
long periods of time. But I tried to really focus
(07:49):
on her and just be there when she needed me,
and you know, sometimes that was inconvenient, and so I
think that that that was just something that I think.
I think lining this book lined up well with my
life in particular right now and being able to work
on it with my dad as he's reflecting on raising
(08:09):
us with my mom, which is really cool.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Well, I have to say, so go ahead.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Yeah, no, excuse me, I you you took some convincing
to head to the foundry with your dad. It actually
was the other way around for me. My daughter's very
modest has the best selling children's book under her belt.
She writes for The Daily Wire on a regular basis.
I wrote a book about our family when I was
(08:36):
Vice president and as a very accomplished writer, but she
was eight months pregnant when this book was getting started,
and as a dad, I just struggled with asking her
to do it. And I really, I really commend her
because she she lived out that balance. I mean literally,
(08:59):
there were there were times we were working on the
book in a setting just like this. She in California
where her husband is stationed with me and Indiana, and
she had that little baby on her lap. But she
worked out that balance and it just made the whole
experience more special for us. But I hope people when
they read this book, though, come away with hopefully a
(09:23):
smile on their face. I hope they come away with
a sense that we don't think we have all the answers.
But we really do believe that faith makes a family,
and family makes a life, and as we put a
priority on our faith and on our families, will be
blessed well.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
And that's one thing that I did want to go
through because faith is obviously a big theme in this book,
the major theme in this book, and it should be
the major theme in our lives. But for a lot
of people, a lot of folks have drifted away from faith.
But sometimes I think someone could read something like this
and say it's too much. So I do have to ask,
were there ever moments? Because I've had this experience, So
(10:02):
maybe I just want you to say, yeah, that's okay.
I don't know, but were there ever moments in life
as you were raising the kids where you did get
pulled away and you had because I have those moments
where you know you're campaigning and you can't be home.
I mean, you're gone and you come home. And I've
had my girls. Now my girls are I have twins
that are ten and then twelve and fourteen. So they're
(10:23):
all at ages where they're willing to tell you whatever
they think of you at any moment, right, and they're
not shy about it, But I've had those moments where
they've said you're never home, you don't love us, and
you get convicted and you're like, Okay, I've screwed up
and I've got to fix this. I mean, for those
imperfect people who are reading this and say, I can't
achieve that, were there ever moments where that happened to
(10:45):
something similar happened to you and you said, I've got
to recalibrate here and get back.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Well before Charlotte answers it with specificity, yes, of course,
I hope this comes across as aspirational, because you know,
I was a congressman for twelve years, I was a
governor for four and as vice President of the United States.
My life and became increasingly complex, the obligations and duties.
(11:16):
But what I hope people pick up is that there's
there are decisions that you make along the way that
will will make it more possible for you to spend
more time with your family than you would have otherwise.
In our case, Tutor, when we were elected to Congress,
we we actually our kids were young, Charlotte, you were
(11:36):
about eight years old. I think we moved our young
family to Washington, d C. To be with me during
the school year and then move. You know, they spent
summers home here in Indiana. But that was all about
when you talk about your kids being willing to tell
you what they think. I used to say to people,
you know, I could come back from Capitol Hill and
(11:56):
maybe having had a meeting with President Bush and maybe
done an inn view on cable television, feeling pretty good
about myself, and I'd walk into a little house where
there were four people that had no respect for me whatsoever.
That's so true. My family was there with us. We
stayed together. And in this book we also try and
(12:19):
say that when you when you're able to be there,
be there. But Charlotte, Charlotte can tell you how it
actually worked out in real life for us. But it
was it was always the goal, but it happened in
a very busy life, didn't it. Shark.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
Yeah, I mean I think that there's Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
When we were writing this book, we really didn't want
it to come across like, oh, great, Mike Pence was
home for dinner, like good for you, like fence, like
I can't do that every night? And no, I mean,
of course there were nights he wasn't home for dinner.
I mean, but the idea was that he tried to
be home for dinner, and that we knew he wanted
to be home for dinner. So I think that's even
(12:58):
more important is municating that that was never a question.
It was never I never thought he would rather be
off doing some you know, meeting or interview or something.
I knew he wanted to be with us and still
know that. And I also think, I mean, when we
were writing as well, we really tried to include other
options for families and just kind of get the message
(13:21):
across of the sentiment behind being home for dinner. My
husband's in the military, and so there are lots of
nights he's not home for dinner. So we kind of
spoke about that early on. We wanted to make sure
people knew, you know, if you work the night shift,
if you're in the military, if you you know, have
late nights, it's that doesn't mean you're a bad parent.
(13:42):
It's just getting across that message to your kids that
you want to be there and that they come first
over your job. So sometimes you are going to have
decisions that you can make that put them first, and
it might come at a loss in your career, but
that wi ultimately be worth it.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on
the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Do you think that comes with
maturity though, too, because I think over time, when you're
first starting out your career, you feel like, I've got
to be there for everything. You talk about a time
when you had the opportunity to meet with President Bush,
(14:21):
or you could go to a violin concert and it
was Charlotte's violin concert and you chose the concert. And
I think that I think that comes not only with faith,
but maturity and faith that you can say I can
step away from this and put something else first. That
doesn't just happen at the beginning of life, does it.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Well, it didn't happen at the beginning of my life,
I promise you. We you know I grew up in
a great family. Sounds an awful lot like yours. Tutor
really tryes my My father's gone thirty years, but it's
any comfort to you. He's still the biggest part of
my life today as he was a he left us,
and we got a line in the book that good
(15:06):
fathers never leave you the pain thing, but never the
impact and the memories but I had a great foundation
in my life. But to be honest with you, even
after I came to faith in Jesus Christ as a
freshman in college, once I got out in the world,
got out of law school, I hit the campaign trail.
As a twenty nine year old. I ran a couple
(15:28):
of times for Congress, and I ended up I ended
up really running campaigns. Ultimately I wasn't proud of. And
I think part of that was a balance in our lives.
It was in the course of those campaigns, as I
wrote about in my autobiography, that we came to the
conclusion that even in the midst of busy campaigns, we
(15:48):
need to take Sunday for our family. We need to rest.
And I can honestly tell you that all the way
through my service as a governor of Indiana and as
Vice President, we always carved out a Sunday morning for church.
We carved out a Sunday afternoons for rest or refreshmen
be with family whenever we could. But those were hard
(16:10):
lessons that we learned, and I learned them through disappointment
in my own life and through losses in defeats in
my public career. But as we write about in the
book about about the middle nineteen nineties, when the kids
had just come along, I'd come across a very powerful
verse in the Bible that essentially essentially encouraged us to
(16:38):
leave to God whatever his purpose was for us, and
to recognize that my primary calling in life is to
be the husband and father that He's called me to be. That,
as it says in Genesis eighteen nineteen, God to fulfill
his purpose for us if we see to the members
of our own household. That's where we put faith first
(17:00):
this book, and I I hope it's a blessing to people,
whatever their faith tradition.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
I think it's important to have this conversation about faith
because people who are new to faith or outside of
that faith group in their lives but curious. I think
that they think Christians want you to come in and
immediately be faithful. And I think sometimes Christians mature in
their faith are like, this is the way to live,
(17:26):
live it now. But you just said something powerful to me.
This was when you were a senior in high school
and then your faith grew. Faith is a journey. Everybody
is on a different part of that journey, and it
takes time. I mean, there needs to be grace for
people who are exploring faith and coming to faith. Why
do you think so many people think Christians are like
(17:49):
you're either in or you're out. Why is that impression
out there?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Well, well, Charlotte, I'm going to pitch it to her
because she inspired a chapter of this book, in particular
from great work she's done on them we Shouldn't Fear
Our Doubts. I mean, she and I both came to
faith in Christ through doubts, through literally walking away from faith.
But but Charlotte, you're we both write about our own journey.
(18:13):
But but she's she's done some very eloquent work on
that very question.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
We all thanks, I mean we we do.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
We do have a chapter that's called Don't Fear Your Doubts,
and it's kind of a testimony chapter. It includes our
both of our testimonies, really and I really like.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
That it's in there.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
I did a podcast a couple of years ago that
was called Doubting It, and I interviewed people about their
faith journey, but kind of asked them about specifically, you know,
when they had doubts. And I felt like a lot
of people in our generation, in my generation the kind
of when I came out of grad school, I felt
like a lot of people really struggled in their faith
because maybe they had never not been encouraged to doubt,
(18:58):
but had never been allowed to doubt their faith, and
they just kind of were told this is the way
it is, and if you don't question it, and then
when they go into the world and there are questions
thrown at them, they don't really know how to answer it.
And it's extremely unnerving. A lot of times people will
lose their faith, and so I wanted to kind of
(19:18):
explore that, and so when we wrote that chapter, it
was it was important, I think for us to get
across that both of us had doubts and both of
us had to kind of push away our faith, maybe
not walk away from it, but kind of push it away,
kind of not be as interested, kind of do our
own thing and think that we could just go off.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
And you know, not really follow Christ. And at least
that was my exity of your own power, right.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Yeah, And then I kind of came back around and
my dad kind of talks about his journey too, and
and I like the end of the chapter talks about
you know, if you if you do have doubt. Follow
it through, you know, see where it leads you, because
you know God will answer our questions. I mean that's
in the Bible. That's asking, you will receive and so
(20:11):
if you do seek the answers, you will find them.
So that's that's something that we want to get across
in this book too, and and again not have it
come across like a cookie cutter, you know, perfect Christian book.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
There are even times actually when we're ready.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
And I would use a word and my dad would
actually say, we got to find a different word because
that's like a Christianese word that's.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
Like we want to do you don't everybody? Yeah, I
love that because you know living it.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Yeah, you live it, and you don't realize that that
is something that could turn someone off or make them
make it so that they have like kind of that block.
You know, some people's hearts have that block around them,
and we are meant to not build that block, but
to break that block. And that's been something that I
think I've seen so many people since I because I
(21:06):
told my faith story on this podcast just a few
days ago, so folks that are listening regularly know that
I also came to faith when I was older, and
I just see those roadblocks and I know where the
other side is pushing to break down faith. And so
I think it is really important for parents to read
(21:28):
this because what you just said, I think is so
key that you can doubt and as parents we can
let our kids out. Because I have so many parents
who are like my kid went to college, and I
think we're seeing this right now, what we're seeing at
colleges with the anti Israel message, a lot of parents
are panicking. And I think that the panic is the
(21:48):
right word, because if you think your child is going
to be on a path that doesn't lead to eternal life,
then you can panic, and panic can lead you to
do the wrong things. The idea of talking to your
child and saying, hey, this is okay, take that journey,
but actually take the journey. That's something that I don't
think we always think about is telling them to take
(22:10):
the journey of doubt because we want them to take
the journey of faith.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Yeah, Charlotte ca remember that she. I think it was
Ralph Waldo Emerson. We quote him in the book that
most men lead lives of quiet desperation, that they live
in between faith and doubt, and they never they have
a lot of times people never embrace those issues. I
(22:36):
thought the way Charlotte just expressed it, and that we
express it in the book is intended to say, come on,
go ahead, don't don't live between and for Karen and me,
we always believed in letting our kids, training our children
up in the way they should go, sharing our faith
with our kids. But we always believed that we want
(22:59):
to raise kids a thing for themselves. And I think
they knew that from early on that we would love
them regardless and respect them. But the one of the
things in this book and is there's a couple of
chapters in there about falling short, and they're not about Charlotte.
(23:23):
I told her, how come we're not writing about where
you fell short?
Speaker 1 (23:26):
You can see where you fell short, and she can
see it.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
I was governor of Indiana, and I was all caught
up in my very very first few months as governor
of this great state, and I had a big speech scheduled,
and my wife had a health issue, and I made
just a very poor decision not to drop everything I
was doing and go by her side, but to go
(23:52):
to a big event. And I didn't want two thousand people,
you know, waiting not hearing my remarks, and it was
just a tutor. It was just a fundamentally bad decision.
My wife, because she's an incredible person, has forgiven me
long ago for it. But I'm not. I'm sure I've
forgiven myself. And so I hope, like I said, I
(24:15):
hope people. I hope people read this book and maybe
get a smile. You know, there's some chapters in there
that are meant just and you know, let you know
that we don't take ourselves too seriously. But I hope
also they pick up a sense of humility about this
whole business. Thirty eight years married, we don't have it
all figured out. We're parents are three incredible young men women,
(24:40):
and they have great spouses and three perfect granddaughters. Other
than that, we we're learning as we go here. And
but for us, it ultimately is I hope people might
be able to read this book and just and see
that in the busy, workaday life and we've lived in that,
(25:01):
if you put your faith in your family first, she'll
be blessed.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on
the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Anyone who has run for office.
I can tell you knows that your wife is a
very forgiving person because you've run several times and that
is hard. But you actually talk about her being forgiving
(25:24):
in the book and from Charlotte's perspective. So I have
to ask, because you write a chapter on being together
on January sixth, it was a very hard day. And
I want to say for folks who are critical of
January sixth, about six months after, I was meeting with
a congressman who had been in the building on January sixth,
(25:47):
and this man who was such a strong guy and
you would never you would never think that something could
get to him, you know, it's just such a tough
I sat across from me. They had been in hearings
with the whole Nancy Pelosi Committee and all of that,
and I sat down with him and he said, I
(26:09):
don't think that people realized what it was for us
that day because we don't see the outside. We didn't
see what was happening. We were told there were people coming.
And he said, I remember having just a knife in
my pocket. And he started to cry, and he said,
we put one of the desks, we got under the desk,
and I thought I'll probably not see my kids again,
(26:32):
but I'll try to protect everybody in this room because
he said we didn't know what was happening, And I
think people don't hear the perspective of the folks that
didn't know what was happening on the outside that day,
that didn't have the perspective that you have when you're
watching it on TV. And I thought that was you know,
for a moment, it took me back where I thought,
(26:54):
it's just something I didn't know. And this is someone
who couldn't make a phone call, couldn't say goodbye, didn't
know what happening. I think people think, well, that's ridiculous,
it wasn't that bad, But for the people in that
room that day, it was bad. And you were obviously
in an incredibly tough position that day. And since then
there has been a lot that has come your way
(27:19):
and folks that have set out, well, we don't agree
with what he did. And I know what that's like
as a person who stood there and been the person
that they criticized, But for my kids, I don't know
what that's like. So Charlotte, you had a moment where
you got mad and your mom had some really interesting
(27:40):
advice for you, which I think is powerful and people
should hear it. So would you be willing to share that?
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Yeah, yeah, I'm glad you picked up and you picked
that actually from that chapter because it's kind of a
small part of the chapter, but it's actually really impactful.
So I do write one chapter in the book. It's
the last chapter, and the directive in it. I guess
it's called stay, and it's about staying with your family
when things get tough. So I, my mom and I
(28:08):
were at the capital with my dad on January sixth.
Obviously you didn't know what was going to happen. We
knew it would be kind of a tough day, though.
It was going to be kind of weird because of
everything that was in the news, and it was going
to be kind of hard for him. I mean, he jokes,
you know, he says, I was also on the ballot,
so it's not like, you know, fun for me to like,
(28:30):
you know, get to somebody else, give the wind to
someone else. So we were just going to go and support him,
and then things kind of started happening. You can read
about it in the book. I kind of detail how
we ended up going down to more of a secure
location away from the office that was like right near
(28:51):
the Senate chambers, and yeah, I did.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
We are watching I.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Think most of the most of the information we got
was from Twitter, and I was on Twitter and other
people were kind of looking at Twitter because obviously we
didn't have a TV or anything. We didn't really know
either of what was going on, and we were getting
some information but mostly looking online. And I talked about
the former president and I said, it's unforgivable. I said, like,
(29:20):
this is unforgivable, basically to my mom, and she kind
of corrected me and essentially told me, you know, nothing
is unforgivable, like you can't say that. And it did
really convict me because later on in the days that followed,
I really did have to work through forgiving him, forgiving
(29:43):
other people that were involved that I had been friends with,
very close with, and I fell had put my dad
at risk, and you know, and I'd say in the
book too, like I that day, January sixth, was a
very unifying day.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
You know.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
I got texts from lots of people in my life
who were encouraging on that day.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
And then since then it just became.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Still politicized like you were just alluding to and very political,
and I think people took it very personally, but at
the time it was pretty unifying. I mean, everybody was
pretty upset that that was happening in America. And I
do think that it was something that it taught me.
My mom saying that to me was first of all,
(30:32):
very a very good mom moment, that something I needed
to hear. And I don't I mean, I admire her
for so many reasons, but especially for having the clarity
of mine to still parent me in my you know,
twenty eight year old twenty nine year old self in
like a you know, hiding spot on January since saying no,
(30:56):
you don't decide who's forgiven, and.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
That was just really true.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
And and you know, we're commanded in the Bible to forgive,
as the Lord forgave you first of all, so I
am commanded to forgive. But I really believe that, you like,
there have been times in my life where I've really
had to ask God for his forgiveness for people, you know,
because I think really as human beings, it's nearly impossible
(31:23):
for us to forgive on our own when we are
wronged or hurt and It's something that I just think
is just, I don't know, just an important message to
kind of get across that you can ask for this
and and and being able to forgive someone the way
that we have been forgiven. It is something we're supposed
(31:48):
to do, and it's a hard thing to do. I
do remember days after like journaling and trying to like
work through this because it was a really tough thing.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
My dad is my hero.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
I the way you talk about your dad, obviously you have.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
The same feelings.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
I mean, to have somebody do something that I felt
put them at risk, I mean, you can't even I
can't even talk about yet how that would make me feeling,
how it made me feel at the time, and having
to forgive and working through that was something I really
had to do, and I do have to pray about it,
(32:27):
and it's not something that comes naturally. It's not something
that's easy. But I had to remember even in that
moment that I don't decide who's forgiven, and nothing is
unforgivable by me, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
And I think the interesting thing that you learn in
those times were when it's very hard, is that forgiveness
is freeing if you can get there because the cage
of unforgiveness is only holding you in, it's not holding
the person that you're not forgiving in. And yeah, that's
that's the problem. And I think that I want to
ask thank you, mister Vice President, because obviously this is
(33:04):
hard for you as well. You write in the book
about your passion is to serve and that you dreamt
one day of being president yourself. It would have been
a lot easier to get there had you decided I'm
going to throw things out, make sure we're in office,
and I'm going to make sure that we serve another
four years to heck with the constitution. I'll do what
I can and see if I can then get there.
(33:26):
But it wasn't. You knew that wasn't the step to take.
You knew that, and you knew it was going to
hurt your image with people. But you still have this
passion to go out there and serve. Do you see
another opportunity for you to go out there and bring
the people to your side and one day run again
(33:48):
for president.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Well, you know, we'd like to stay at our house too.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
We don't like twenty years younger than the candidates out
there now. So sixty that's young r.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Well, we like say, we don't know what the future holds,
but we know who holds the future. And I appreciate
your generous words. It's you know, look, there were voting
irregularities that took place. I was very clear about my
conviction about that, but I also also knew what my
duty was under the constitution that day, the oath that
(34:23):
I'd taken in January twenty seventeen to support the Constitution
of the United States, the role of the vice President
simply to preside over a joint session of Congress where
Michigan's electoral votes Indiana's electoral votes will be opened and counted.
And we did that. You know, I often thought in
those days leading up to January sixth. Psalm fifteen says
(34:47):
he keeps his oath even when it hurts, And to
your point, I know something about that. But over the
last several years I've had I've been so moved, even
during our recent campaign for president this summer, how many
people have come up and expressed appreciation and support for
what we did. But the reason that stays the last
(35:10):
chapter of this book is more about my daughter and
my wife than it is about about me. I mean,
a lot of people don't know that Karen and Charlotte
were there the whole time, that they were there till
four in the morning, when the constitutional process was concluded,
because they wouldn't leave. They I had had a deep
(35:35):
conviction that I was not going to leave my post.
I made a decision to stay at the Capitol. I
thought I could facilitate a response by law enforcement to
quell the violence, to move the process forward if I
stayed in the building. But in all fairness, I did
encourage Charlotte and her mother to go back to the
(35:56):
Vice President's residents, and they refused. It was one of
the greatest gifts that they'd ever given me, was it.
They just stayed and you know when? And Charlotte ended
that chapter, which she wrote every word of, and she
also dictated it on the audio version of the book,
UH in a very moving way. She just said, you
(36:17):
know when, when, when, when trouble is at the door,
in the midst of everything else, when it comes to
your family, just stay be with one another. And I
hope beyond the controversy that day, I hope, I hope
that's an enduring lesson for people, because it's It's been
one of the keys that our family, through thick and thin,
(36:38):
through hardship, through loss, had been there with each other.
And I hope that I hope people come away with
that conclusion In the book as well, I'll also tell
you finally, Tutor, that you know, this isn't a policy book.
I've got a lot of public policy in my other book,
reflect on my journey as a conservative leader. But at
(37:01):
the end, Charlotte and I wrote in the epilogue my
belief that that you know, the family is in free
fall in this country. I mean it was about the
time I was born, you know. You know, one in
ten households had just one occupant. Now that it's about
a third of American households today only have one parent
(37:22):
or one person living alone. You know, the Bible says
God puts the lonely in families. And so many times
people have come up to me over the years and said, boy,
other than supporting candidates, you know, like like Tutor Dixon
and yourself and other people that I believe, other than
supporting candidates and donating time and resources, what can I do?
And I hope they come away with a conclusion they
(37:46):
can go home for dinner, that you know if you
want to. I actually think the key for really renewing
our nation is closer to the dinner table than it
is to any any any table or podium in our nation.
It's capital, it's Collecting the right people is vitally important.
Passing the right laws, respecting our liberties, our values absolutely essential.
(38:09):
But underneath all of that is the family and the
vitality of the family. And I want to thank you
for being such a clary and voice for family and
for life over the years. I think we renew that. Then,
I'm confident we save the family. We'll save America if
we go home for dinner.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
I think that that's how people vote for the right
people when the family is strong. I mean, I do.
Speaker 4 (38:34):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
It is the foundation that everything else is built upon,
and that foundation of family is built on faith. So
I love this. I want to say that I want
people to go get this book. It is called Go
Home for Dinner, because this is the time this season
where a lot of people feel lost and lonely in
the holiday season, even though family is around. This is
(38:55):
how you can make that experience rich, make it rich
and enriched the people around you by reading this and
refocusing that, but beyond this book, because this book is
something that you wrote with your daughter, and I think
people could go, well, that was his daughter. I want
people to know that throughout my campaign and since I
(39:17):
met you, you have always taken time and that is
something that you just kind of know when you're with
someone that this is someone who genuinely cares. And I
want you to know how much I have appreciated it.
No matter when it's been, whether it's me seeing you
in the airport or seeing you at an event, you
stop and you talk and you ask how I am,
(39:37):
and you ask how things are going, and you're willing
to give me advice. And the other thing is this
man was the vice president of the United States, and
if I call, he picks up the phone and he
talks to me, and he genuinely cares. So I think
it's beautiful that your daughter has been able to say
these wonderful things about you, But I think people should
know that it's because it comes from place of truth,
(39:59):
because you really are a genuine person who is there
to help others. And I appreciate that so much and
I am so thankful to you. Vice President Mike Pence
and your daughter, Charlotte Pence Bond. Thank you for coming
on today and talking about it.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Thank you, great to be with you, Thanks.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
For having thank you, thank you, and thank you all
for joining us on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. For this
episode and others, go to Tutor disonpodcast dot com. You
can subscribe right there, or head over to the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts and join
us next time on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Have a
blessed day.
Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. I am grateful today
to be joined by Vice President Mike Pence and his
daughter Charlotte Pence to talk about the book they wrote
together called Go Home for Dinner My Dad and I.
This book is like really important to me because my
dad and I had a very close relationship and this
interview means a lot to me because I lost my
(00:22):
dad to cancer last year and he was also someone
who believed that it was very important to go home
for dinner, and I wanted to share a little story
about that because sometimes you don't realize when you're a
little kid that this is happening. You know, you don't
always know what the behind the scenes of your parents is.
But when I was older, I worked with my dad.
(00:43):
I had the blessing of being able to work with
him for many years. And one of the guys that
he worked with had worked with him when we lived
in Illinois and was one of his vice presidents at
the time, and so my dad we lived in Illinois,
in the suburbs of Chicago, and my dad had to
every week go to a facto in Kiekuk, Iowa. And
when I was so you know, that was when I
(01:04):
was a kid. And then when I was in my
twenties and thirties, I was working with one of the
guys that worked with him in Iowa and he told
me this story. He said, you know, your dad was
such a bore and it was meant to be a
huge insult to me. And I could tell. We were
on a business trip, and he said, we used to
have to go to Iowa and we would go out
every night, and your dad would always go home. He
(01:25):
would make that five hour drive home because he always
said it was more important to be home than it
was to be out with the guys, bonding with the team,
and it was really important to us that he'd be
bonding with the team. And it was like this moment
where I thought, that was my dad. It was so
important for him to be with us that he would
definitely take that five hour drive at night to make
(01:49):
sure that in the morning he was there when we
woke up. And I read this, I was I was
looking at some of the stories in this book and
it just reminded me so much of that story. And
I think that it's beautiful because living in a family
focused household is important, and right now we see that
there's a breakdown in society on that too many people
(02:10):
are not living in that family focused household and we
have moms and dads both working life gets in the
way and people go, well, I'll make that quality time,
but I don't have that quantity time available to my kids.
And really it's both that matter, and so I want
to bring in Vice President Mike Pens and his daughter
(02:32):
Charlotte to talk about how that quantity time meant so
much in their relationship and talk about their book, Go
Home for Dinners. Welcome to the podcast. I appreciate you
being here.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Well, well, thank you, tutor. I almost feel like we
ought to just sign off after that moving opening and
our sympathies in the passing of your father sounds like
a wonderful well. Thank you reminds me a lot of
my fault. Was a salesman, helped build a small business
in a small town, but had the same practice wherever
(03:07):
he was at the end of a sales day, he
was driving home and it was at the dinner table.
And when we got the idea for this book, it
came from an answer I used to give people back
when I was in Congress for twelve years. People would
sometimes come up to me after I'd started to show
up on the house floor more often and on cable television,
(03:30):
they'd asked that flattering question, which is where do you
see yourself in five years? You've gotten that question before,
and because everybody Washington's got a plan, right, well, I
would always answer it the same way. I'd say where
do I see myself in five years? I'd say home
for dinner. Because I never needed to be motivated to
(03:51):
want to make a difference in the world. I never
need to be motivated to work hard. But I learned
early on, and we try and write about it in
this book, some hard lessons along the way, early unsuccessful
efforts at politics, that I became convicted, both in my
faith and through my upbringing that I needed to really
put my family first. But in doing that, I think
(04:15):
it's really enabled us to do the things that we've
been able to do. But the joy of being able
to write this with my daughter, who is the best
writer in the family by far, was a particular joy
for me. So thanks for having us on here in
your story.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Absolutely well, that was why I thought this was so
neat because when my dad came to me years ago.
I mean this was early two thousand. He came to
me and he said, I'm buying a foundery in Michigan,
and I want you to come there and work with me.
And my first reaction was, no way. There is no
way I'm going to work with you. Because families work together,
they fight, it's going to be a disaster. I'm not
(04:51):
doing it. And my dad is a great salesman. So
he finally got convinced to me to do this, and
it was the best experience that those ten year of
working together. It was so cool because you don't necessarily
when you're in the household, you don't necessarily see the
hard work that your parents are doing, because you see
the parent and not the worker. And I got to
(05:13):
see him in his element in what he did that
impacted the world, which was making steel castings for all
of this equipment we use every day, whether it's a
train or a tractor, it's impacting your life. And I
feel like Charlotte, you had the same experience. You got
to see your dad and see how his heart worked
for his service and what he did to impact the
(05:34):
world every day. What was that like for you to
kind of delve deep, especially at a time where you're
still in the spotlight, and it's a tough spotlight right now,
a very tough spotlight. So, as daughter, what's it like
to go through that?
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Yeah, you know, it's funny because I really relate to
what you said that, you know, you don't necessarily know
what your parents are doing while they're raising you. At
the same time, you're just kind of seeing that and
that's kind of your normal.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
So I do think my dad.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Has said in interviews since we've been doing promotions for
the book, that you know, it was hard for him
to like, it was hard to go home for dinner,
It was hard to be with his family.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
It wasn't really hard to work hard.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
And I don't think I really knew that as a kid,
And I think that's a testament to him and my
mom and and kind of the culture that they built
in our family, that family did come first. It didn't
seem like a burden to him to be with us
on Sundays and you know, coming home from dinner when
he could, and also taking us with him on trips
(06:41):
we got to go and kind of see him working
and going on trips as a congressman, which that was
just a cool thing to be able to do as
a kid. I think writing the book especially was impactful
for me because of the time that I'm at in
my life too. I just have had my first daughter,
my first kid, my daughter, and she really lined up
(07:06):
with this book. We started writing it right before she
was born, and it just was a good reminder all
the time for me to put her first, put my
husband first, over even this book, because I felt like
I couldn't go out and do these interviews later and
publish the book and be talking about how, oh yeah,
(07:27):
it's important for you to put your family first. If
I wrote the book and totally ignored my husband and
my daughter, I just felt like that would be hypocritical.
So I really tried to like focus on her as
much as I could, you know, and when she was
awake in the newborn stage, they're not awake for very
long periods of time. But I tried to really focus
(07:49):
on her and just be there when she needed me,
and you know, sometimes that was inconvenient, and so I
think that that that was just something that I think.
I think lining this book lined up well with my
life in particular right now and being able to work
on it with my dad as he's reflecting on raising
(08:09):
us with my mom, which is really cool.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Well, I have to say, so go ahead.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Yeah, no, excuse me, I you you took some convincing
to head to the foundry with your dad. It actually
was the other way around for me. My daughter's very
modest has the best selling children's book under her belt.
She writes for The Daily Wire on a regular basis.
I wrote a book about our family when I was
(08:36):
Vice president and as a very accomplished writer, but she
was eight months pregnant when this book was getting started,
and as a dad, I just struggled with asking her
to do it. And I really, I really commend her
because she she lived out that balance. I mean literally,
(08:59):
there were there were times we were working on the
book in a setting just like this. She in California
where her husband is stationed with me and Indiana, and
she had that little baby on her lap. But she
worked out that balance and it just made the whole
experience more special for us. But I hope people when
they read this book, though, come away with hopefully a
(09:23):
smile on their face. I hope they come away with
a sense that we don't think we have all the answers.
But we really do believe that faith makes a family,
and family makes a life, and as we put a
priority on our faith and on our families, will be
blessed well.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
And that's one thing that I did want to go
through because faith is obviously a big theme in this book,
the major theme in this book, and it should be
the major theme in our lives. But for a lot
of people, a lot of folks have drifted away from faith.
But sometimes I think someone could read something like this
and say it's too much. So I do have to ask,
were there ever moments? Because I've had this experience, So
(10:02):
maybe I just want you to say, yeah, that's okay.
I don't know, but were there ever moments in life
as you were raising the kids where you did get
pulled away and you had because I have those moments
where you know you're campaigning and you can't be home.
I mean, you're gone and you come home. And I've
had my girls. Now my girls are I have twins
that are ten and then twelve and fourteen. So they're
(10:23):
all at ages where they're willing to tell you whatever
they think of you at any moment, right, and they're
not shy about it, But I've had those moments where
they've said you're never home, you don't love us, and
you get convicted and you're like, Okay, I've screwed up
and I've got to fix this. I mean, for those
imperfect people who are reading this and say, I can't
achieve that, were there ever moments where that happened to
(10:45):
something similar happened to you and you said, I've got
to recalibrate here and get back.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Well before Charlotte answers it with specificity, yes, of course,
I hope this comes across as aspirational, because you know,
I was a congressman for twelve years, I was a
governor for four and as vice President of the United States.
My life and became increasingly complex, the obligations and duties.
(11:16):
But what I hope people pick up is that there's
there are decisions that you make along the way that
will will make it more possible for you to spend
more time with your family than you would have otherwise.
In our case, Tutor, when we were elected to Congress,
we we actually our kids were young, Charlotte, you were
(11:36):
about eight years old. I think we moved our young
family to Washington, d C. To be with me during
the school year and then move. You know, they spent
summers home here in Indiana. But that was all about
when you talk about your kids being willing to tell
you what they think. I used to say to people,
you know, I could come back from Capitol Hill and
(11:56):
maybe having had a meeting with President Bush and maybe
done an inn view on cable television, feeling pretty good
about myself, and I'd walk into a little house where
there were four people that had no respect for me whatsoever.
That's so true. My family was there with us. We
stayed together. And in this book we also try and
(12:19):
say that when you when you're able to be there,
be there. But Charlotte, Charlotte can tell you how it
actually worked out in real life for us. But it
was it was always the goal, but it happened in
a very busy life, didn't it. Shark.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
Yeah, I mean I think that there's Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
When we were writing this book, we really didn't want
it to come across like, oh, great, Mike Pence was
home for dinner, like good for you, like fence, like
I can't do that every night? And no, I mean,
of course there were nights he wasn't home for dinner.
I mean, but the idea was that he tried to
be home for dinner, and that we knew he wanted
to be home for dinner. So I think that's even
(12:58):
more important is municating that that was never a question.
It was never I never thought he would rather be
off doing some you know, meeting or interview or something.
I knew he wanted to be with us and still
know that. And I also think, I mean, when we
were writing as well, we really tried to include other
options for families and just kind of get the message
(13:21):
across of the sentiment behind being home for dinner. My
husband's in the military, and so there are lots of
nights he's not home for dinner. So we kind of
spoke about that early on. We wanted to make sure
people knew, you know, if you work the night shift,
if you're in the military, if you you know, have
late nights, it's that doesn't mean you're a bad parent.
(13:42):
It's just getting across that message to your kids that
you want to be there and that they come first
over your job. So sometimes you are going to have
decisions that you can make that put them first, and
it might come at a loss in your career, but
that wi ultimately be worth it.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on
the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Do you think that comes with
maturity though, too, because I think over time, when you're
first starting out your career, you feel like, I've got
to be there for everything. You talk about a time
when you had the opportunity to meet with President Bush,
(14:21):
or you could go to a violin concert and it
was Charlotte's violin concert and you chose the concert. And
I think that I think that comes not only with faith,
but maturity and faith that you can say I can
step away from this and put something else first. That
doesn't just happen at the beginning of life, does it.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Well, it didn't happen at the beginning of my life,
I promise you. We you know I grew up in
a great family. Sounds an awful lot like yours. Tutor
really tryes my My father's gone thirty years, but it's
any comfort to you. He's still the biggest part of
my life today as he was a he left us,
and we got a line in the book that good
(15:06):
fathers never leave you the pain thing, but never the
impact and the memories but I had a great foundation
in my life. But to be honest with you, even
after I came to faith in Jesus Christ as a
freshman in college, once I got out in the world,
got out of law school, I hit the campaign trail.
As a twenty nine year old. I ran a couple
(15:28):
of times for Congress, and I ended up I ended
up really running campaigns. Ultimately I wasn't proud of. And
I think part of that was a balance in our lives.
It was in the course of those campaigns, as I
wrote about in my autobiography, that we came to the
conclusion that even in the midst of busy campaigns, we
(15:48):
need to take Sunday for our family. We need to rest.
And I can honestly tell you that all the way
through my service as a governor of Indiana and as
Vice President, we always carved out a Sunday morning for church.
We carved out a Sunday afternoons for rest or refreshmen
be with family whenever we could. But those were hard
(16:10):
lessons that we learned, and I learned them through disappointment
in my own life and through losses in defeats in
my public career. But as we write about in the
book about about the middle nineteen nineties, when the kids
had just come along, I'd come across a very powerful
verse in the Bible that essentially essentially encouraged us to
(16:38):
leave to God whatever his purpose was for us, and
to recognize that my primary calling in life is to
be the husband and father that He's called me to be. That,
as it says in Genesis eighteen nineteen, God to fulfill
his purpose for us if we see to the members
of our own household. That's where we put faith first
(17:00):
this book, and I I hope it's a blessing to people,
whatever their faith tradition.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
I think it's important to have this conversation about faith
because people who are new to faith or outside of
that faith group in their lives but curious. I think
that they think Christians want you to come in and
immediately be faithful. And I think sometimes Christians mature in
their faith are like, this is the way to live,
(17:26):
live it now. But you just said something powerful to me.
This was when you were a senior in high school
and then your faith grew. Faith is a journey. Everybody
is on a different part of that journey, and it
takes time. I mean, there needs to be grace for
people who are exploring faith and coming to faith. Why
do you think so many people think Christians are like
(17:49):
you're either in or you're out. Why is that impression
out there?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Well, well, Charlotte, I'm going to pitch it to her
because she inspired a chapter of this book, in particular
from great work she's done on them we Shouldn't Fear
Our Doubts. I mean, she and I both came to
faith in Christ through doubts, through literally walking away from faith.
But but Charlotte, you're we both write about our own journey.
(18:13):
But but she's she's done some very eloquent work on
that very question.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
We all thanks, I mean we we do.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
We do have a chapter that's called Don't Fear Your Doubts,
and it's kind of a testimony chapter. It includes our
both of our testimonies, really and I really like.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
That it's in there.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
I did a podcast a couple of years ago that
was called Doubting It, and I interviewed people about their
faith journey, but kind of asked them about specifically, you know,
when they had doubts. And I felt like a lot
of people in our generation, in my generation the kind
of when I came out of grad school, I felt
like a lot of people really struggled in their faith
because maybe they had never not been encouraged to doubt,
(18:58):
but had never been allowed to doubt their faith, and
they just kind of were told this is the way
it is, and if you don't question it, and then
when they go into the world and there are questions
thrown at them, they don't really know how to answer it.
And it's extremely unnerving. A lot of times people will
lose their faith, and so I wanted to kind of
(19:18):
explore that, and so when we wrote that chapter, it
was it was important, I think for us to get
across that both of us had doubts and both of
us had to kind of push away our faith, maybe
not walk away from it, but kind of push it away,
kind of not be as interested, kind of do our
own thing and think that we could just go off.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
And you know, not really follow Christ. And at least
that was my exity of your own power, right.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Yeah, And then I kind of came back around and
my dad kind of talks about his journey too, and
and I like the end of the chapter talks about
you know, if you if you do have doubt. Follow
it through, you know, see where it leads you, because
you know God will answer our questions. I mean that's
in the Bible. That's asking, you will receive and so
(20:11):
if you do seek the answers, you will find them.
So that's that's something that we want to get across
in this book too, and and again not have it
come across like a cookie cutter, you know, perfect Christian book.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
There are even times actually when we're ready.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
And I would use a word and my dad would
actually say, we got to find a different word because
that's like a Christianese word that's.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
Like we want to do you don't everybody? Yeah, I
love that because you know living it.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Yeah, you live it, and you don't realize that that
is something that could turn someone off or make them
make it so that they have like kind of that block.
You know, some people's hearts have that block around them,
and we are meant to not build that block, but
to break that block. And that's been something that I
think I've seen so many people since I because I
(21:06):
told my faith story on this podcast just a few
days ago, so folks that are listening regularly know that
I also came to faith when I was older, and
I just see those roadblocks and I know where the
other side is pushing to break down faith. And so
I think it is really important for parents to read
(21:28):
this because what you just said, I think is so
key that you can doubt and as parents we can
let our kids out. Because I have so many parents
who are like my kid went to college, and I
think we're seeing this right now, what we're seeing at
colleges with the anti Israel message, a lot of parents
are panicking. And I think that the panic is the
(21:48):
right word, because if you think your child is going
to be on a path that doesn't lead to eternal life,
then you can panic, and panic can lead you to
do the wrong things. The idea of talking to your
child and saying, hey, this is okay, take that journey,
but actually take the journey. That's something that I don't
think we always think about is telling them to take
(22:10):
the journey of doubt because we want them to take
the journey of faith.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Yeah, Charlotte ca remember that she. I think it was
Ralph Waldo Emerson. We quote him in the book that
most men lead lives of quiet desperation, that they live
in between faith and doubt, and they never they have
a lot of times people never embrace those issues. I
(22:36):
thought the way Charlotte just expressed it, and that we
express it in the book is intended to say, come on,
go ahead, don't don't live between and for Karen and me,
we always believed in letting our kids, training our children
up in the way they should go, sharing our faith
with our kids. But we always believed that we want
(22:59):
to raise kids a thing for themselves. And I think
they knew that from early on that we would love
them regardless and respect them. But the one of the
things in this book and is there's a couple of
chapters in there about falling short, and they're not about Charlotte.
(23:23):
I told her, how come we're not writing about where
you fell short?
Speaker 1 (23:26):
You can see where you fell short, and she can
see it.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
I was governor of Indiana, and I was all caught
up in my very very first few months as governor
of this great state, and I had a big speech scheduled,
and my wife had a health issue, and I made
just a very poor decision not to drop everything I
was doing and go by her side, but to go
(23:52):
to a big event. And I didn't want two thousand people,
you know, waiting not hearing my remarks, and it was
just a tutor. It was just a fundamentally bad decision.
My wife, because she's an incredible person, has forgiven me
long ago for it. But I'm not. I'm sure I've
forgiven myself. And so I hope, like I said, I
(24:15):
hope people. I hope people read this book and maybe
get a smile. You know, there's some chapters in there
that are meant just and you know, let you know
that we don't take ourselves too seriously. But I hope
also they pick up a sense of humility about this
whole business. Thirty eight years married, we don't have it
all figured out. We're parents are three incredible young men women,
(24:40):
and they have great spouses and three perfect granddaughters. Other
than that, we we're learning as we go here. And
but for us, it ultimately is I hope people might
be able to read this book and just and see
that in the busy, workaday life and we've lived in that,
(25:01):
if you put your faith in your family first, she'll
be blessed.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on
the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Anyone who has run for office.
I can tell you knows that your wife is a
very forgiving person because you've run several times and that
is hard. But you actually talk about her being forgiving
(25:24):
in the book and from Charlotte's perspective. So I have
to ask, because you write a chapter on being together
on January sixth, it was a very hard day. And
I want to say for folks who are critical of
January sixth, about six months after, I was meeting with
a congressman who had been in the building on January sixth,
(25:47):
and this man who was such a strong guy and
you would never you would never think that something could
get to him, you know, it's just such a tough
I sat across from me. They had been in hearings
with the whole Nancy Pelosi Committee and all of that,
and I sat down with him and he said, I
(26:09):
don't think that people realized what it was for us
that day because we don't see the outside. We didn't
see what was happening. We were told there were people coming.
And he said, I remember having just a knife in
my pocket. And he started to cry, and he said,
we put one of the desks, we got under the desk,
and I thought I'll probably not see my kids again,
(26:32):
but I'll try to protect everybody in this room because
he said we didn't know what was happening, And I
think people don't hear the perspective of the folks that
didn't know what was happening on the outside that day,
that didn't have the perspective that you have when you're
watching it on TV. And I thought that was you know,
for a moment, it took me back where I thought,
(26:54):
it's just something I didn't know. And this is someone
who couldn't make a phone call, couldn't say goodbye, didn't
know what happening. I think people think, well, that's ridiculous,
it wasn't that bad, But for the people in that
room that day, it was bad. And you were obviously
in an incredibly tough position that day. And since then
there has been a lot that has come your way
(27:19):
and folks that have set out, well, we don't agree
with what he did. And I know what that's like
as a person who stood there and been the person
that they criticized, But for my kids, I don't know
what that's like. So Charlotte, you had a moment where
you got mad and your mom had some really interesting
(27:40):
advice for you, which I think is powerful and people
should hear it. So would you be willing to share that?
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Yeah, yeah, I'm glad you picked up and you picked
that actually from that chapter because it's kind of a
small part of the chapter, but it's actually really impactful.
So I do write one chapter in the book. It's
the last chapter, and the directive in it. I guess
it's called stay, and it's about staying with your family
when things get tough. So I, my mom and I
(28:08):
were at the capital with my dad on January sixth.
Obviously you didn't know what was going to happen. We
knew it would be kind of a tough day, though.
It was going to be kind of weird because of
everything that was in the news, and it was going
to be kind of hard for him. I mean, he jokes,
you know, he says, I was also on the ballot,
so it's not like, you know, fun for me to like,
(28:30):
you know, get to somebody else, give the wind to
someone else. So we were just going to go and support him,
and then things kind of started happening. You can read
about it in the book. I kind of detail how
we ended up going down to more of a secure
location away from the office that was like right near
(28:51):
the Senate chambers, and yeah, I did.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
We are watching I.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Think most of the most of the information we got
was from Twitter, and I was on Twitter and other
people were kind of looking at Twitter because obviously we
didn't have a TV or anything. We didn't really know
either of what was going on, and we were getting
some information but mostly looking online. And I talked about
the former president and I said, it's unforgivable. I said, like,
(29:20):
this is unforgivable, basically to my mom, and she kind
of corrected me and essentially told me, you know, nothing
is unforgivable, like you can't say that. And it did
really convict me because later on in the days that followed,
I really did have to work through forgiving him, forgiving
(29:43):
other people that were involved that I had been friends with,
very close with, and I fell had put my dad
at risk, and you know, and I'd say in the
book too, like I that day, January sixth, was a
very unifying day.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
You know.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
I got texts from lots of people in my life
who were encouraging on that day.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
And then since then it just became.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Still politicized like you were just alluding to and very political,
and I think people took it very personally, but at
the time it was pretty unifying. I mean, everybody was
pretty upset that that was happening in America. And I
do think that it was something that it taught me.
My mom saying that to me was first of all,
(30:32):
very a very good mom moment, that something I needed
to hear. And I don't I mean, I admire her
for so many reasons, but especially for having the clarity
of mine to still parent me in my you know,
twenty eight year old twenty nine year old self in
like a you know, hiding spot on January since saying no,
(30:56):
you don't decide who's forgiven, and.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
That was just really true.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
And and you know, we're commanded in the Bible to forgive,
as the Lord forgave you first of all, so I
am commanded to forgive. But I really believe that, you like,
there have been times in my life where I've really
had to ask God for his forgiveness for people, you know,
because I think really as human beings, it's nearly impossible
(31:23):
for us to forgive on our own when we are
wronged or hurt and It's something that I just think
is just, I don't know, just an important message to
kind of get across that you can ask for this
and and and being able to forgive someone the way
that we have been forgiven. It is something we're supposed
(31:48):
to do, and it's a hard thing to do. I
do remember days after like journaling and trying to like
work through this because it was a really tough thing.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
My dad is my hero.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
I the way you talk about your dad, obviously you have.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
The same feelings.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
I mean, to have somebody do something that I felt
put them at risk, I mean, you can't even I
can't even talk about yet how that would make me feeling,
how it made me feel at the time, and having
to forgive and working through that was something I really
had to do, and I do have to pray about it,
(32:27):
and it's not something that comes naturally. It's not something
that's easy. But I had to remember even in that
moment that I don't decide who's forgiven, and nothing is
unforgivable by me, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
And I think the interesting thing that you learn in
those times were when it's very hard, is that forgiveness
is freeing if you can get there because the cage
of unforgiveness is only holding you in, it's not holding
the person that you're not forgiving in. And yeah, that's
that's the problem. And I think that I want to
ask thank you, mister Vice President, because obviously this is
(33:04):
hard for you as well. You write in the book
about your passion is to serve and that you dreamt
one day of being president yourself. It would have been
a lot easier to get there had you decided I'm
going to throw things out, make sure we're in office,
and I'm going to make sure that we serve another
four years to heck with the constitution. I'll do what
I can and see if I can then get there.
(33:26):
But it wasn't. You knew that wasn't the step to take.
You knew that, and you knew it was going to
hurt your image with people. But you still have this
passion to go out there and serve. Do you see
another opportunity for you to go out there and bring
the people to your side and one day run again
(33:48):
for president.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Well, you know, we'd like to stay at our house too.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
We don't like twenty years younger than the candidates out
there now. So sixty that's young r.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Well, we like say, we don't know what the future holds,
but we know who holds the future. And I appreciate
your generous words. It's you know, look, there were voting
irregularities that took place. I was very clear about my
conviction about that, but I also also knew what my
duty was under the constitution that day, the oath that
(34:23):
I'd taken in January twenty seventeen to support the Constitution
of the United States, the role of the vice President
simply to preside over a joint session of Congress where
Michigan's electoral votes Indiana's electoral votes will be opened and counted.
And we did that. You know, I often thought in
those days leading up to January sixth. Psalm fifteen says
(34:47):
he keeps his oath even when it hurts, And to
your point, I know something about that. But over the
last several years I've had I've been so moved, even
during our recent campaign for president this summer, how many
people have come up and expressed appreciation and support for
what we did. But the reason that stays the last
(35:10):
chapter of this book is more about my daughter and
my wife than it is about about me. I mean,
a lot of people don't know that Karen and Charlotte
were there the whole time, that they were there till
four in the morning, when the constitutional process was concluded,
because they wouldn't leave. They I had had a deep
(35:35):
conviction that I was not going to leave my post.
I made a decision to stay at the Capitol. I
thought I could facilitate a response by law enforcement to
quell the violence, to move the process forward if I
stayed in the building. But in all fairness, I did
encourage Charlotte and her mother to go back to the
(35:56):
Vice President's residents, and they refused. It was one of
the greatest gifts that they'd ever given me, was it.
They just stayed and you know when? And Charlotte ended
that chapter, which she wrote every word of, and she
also dictated it on the audio version of the book,
UH in a very moving way. She just said, you
(36:17):
know when, when, when, when trouble is at the door,
in the midst of everything else, when it comes to
your family, just stay be with one another. And I
hope beyond the controversy that day, I hope, I hope
that's an enduring lesson for people, because it's It's been
one of the keys that our family, through thick and thin,
(36:38):
through hardship, through loss, had been there with each other.
And I hope that I hope people come away with
that conclusion In the book as well, I'll also tell
you finally, Tutor, that you know, this isn't a policy book.
I've got a lot of public policy in my other book,
reflect on my journey as a conservative leader. But at
(37:01):
the end, Charlotte and I wrote in the epilogue my
belief that that you know, the family is in free
fall in this country. I mean it was about the
time I was born, you know. You know, one in
ten households had just one occupant. Now that it's about
a third of American households today only have one parent
(37:22):
or one person living alone. You know, the Bible says
God puts the lonely in families. And so many times
people have come up to me over the years and said, boy,
other than supporting candidates, you know, like like Tutor Dixon
and yourself and other people that I believe, other than
supporting candidates and donating time and resources, what can I do?
And I hope they come away with a conclusion they
(37:46):
can go home for dinner, that you know if you
want to. I actually think the key for really renewing
our nation is closer to the dinner table than it
is to any any any table or podium in our nation.
It's capital, it's Collecting the right people is vitally important.
Passing the right laws, respecting our liberties, our values absolutely essential.
(38:09):
But underneath all of that is the family and the
vitality of the family. And I want to thank you
for being such a clary and voice for family and
for life over the years. I think we renew that. Then,
I'm confident we save the family. We'll save America if
we go home for dinner.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
I think that that's how people vote for the right
people when the family is strong. I mean, I do.
Speaker 4 (38:34):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
It is the foundation that everything else is built upon,
and that foundation of family is built on faith. So
I love this. I want to say that I want
people to go get this book. It is called Go
Home for Dinner, because this is the time this season
where a lot of people feel lost and lonely in
the holiday season, even though family is around. This is
(38:55):
how you can make that experience rich, make it rich
and enriched the people around you by reading this and
refocusing that, but beyond this book, because this book is
something that you wrote with your daughter, and I think
people could go, well, that was his daughter. I want
people to know that throughout my campaign and since I
(39:17):
met you, you have always taken time and that is
something that you just kind of know when you're with
someone that this is someone who genuinely cares. And I
want you to know how much I have appreciated it.
No matter when it's been, whether it's me seeing you
in the airport or seeing you at an event, you
stop and you talk and you ask how I am,
(39:37):
and you ask how things are going, and you're willing
to give me advice. And the other thing is this
man was the vice president of the United States, and
if I call, he picks up the phone and he
talks to me, and he genuinely cares. So I think
it's beautiful that your daughter has been able to say
these wonderful things about you, But I think people should
know that it's because it comes from place of truth,
(39:59):
because you really are a genuine person who is there
to help others. And I appreciate that so much and
I am so thankful to you. Vice President Mike Pence
and your daughter, Charlotte Pence Bond. Thank you for coming
on today and talking about it.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Thank you, great to be with you, Thanks.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
For having thank you, thank you, and thank you all
for joining us on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. For this
episode and others, go to Tutor disonpodcast dot com. You
can subscribe right there, or head over to the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts and join
us next time on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Have a
blessed day.
Host
Buck Sexton
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