Rodney Barnes talks Afrofuturism, Star Wars, Marvel, Directing & more | S7 E9 | 1 on 1's w/Deuces - 1-on-1's w/Deuces

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Get Sick podcast Blurs in the game.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
All right, going to get into let me put up
a line of questions.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
Once.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
Just setting up my screen so that way I can
see everything, all right, one oh one, two three?

Speaker 1 (01:19):
All right?

Speaker 4 (01:19):
All right, all right, Welcome back to geek Set podcast
only podcast that lading hip hop coaching and geek coaching together.
I'm your boy, Duces and this is one on one
with Deuces, the place where I speak with creators, curators
and people that you should know. And y'all know I
never lie when I say I have a whole legend
sitting with me. And today I have a whole legend
on the episode. Today, I got none other than the man,

(01:41):
the myth, the legend himself, Rodney Barnes.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
Man. How are you doing, brother?

Speaker 5 (01:46):
Doing good? Brother doing good? How you doing?

Speaker 1 (01:48):
You know?

Speaker 2 (01:48):
I am living a dream. You know what I'm saying
this is we are.

Speaker 4 (01:51):
In an error where blur culture is so prominent, and
I love it so much. So before we start, I
love to get are flowers when flowers are due, and
you are a person who deserves their flowers. Shout out
to Norriet in the Drink Champs. They have normalized giving
people their flowers while they're here. Not only do you
have twenty plus years in this industry from production and writing,

(02:15):
you have been part of so many cultural important shows
and properties that it's like, I mean, you got Winning Time.
You gave us a true basketball show showing us the
Showtime Lakers at its peak. You gave us Wou Tang Saga,
which visualized one of hip hop's greatest groups ever. In

(02:39):
so many ways, you were part of the Boondocks. You
did my wife and kids. You wrote in the Menlorian comics.
You gave lord to set to Captain America. He's not
even Falcon right now, he is Captain American. You gave
lord to him. You gave more lord to Lando. You
worked on Black Eula. You are a person that has

(03:00):
helped give blurred cultures so many representation to the right
now with it being so prevalent, I need you to
know from my fan base and from the blurred community, man,
we thank you for everything that you have given us.

Speaker 5 (03:17):
Thank you, brother, I appreciate it makes the work a
little bit easier to hear. Really appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah, No, So you know I do want to start
off with sitcom.

Speaker 4 (03:27):
I know that you haven't really wrote in much sitcoms lately,
but you wrote a lot of, you know what I'm saying,
sitcoms that were culturally important. And then now sitcoms are
kind of going to the wayside and there's more long
form content, graphic novels, things with the lower.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
And everything of that nature. But what drew you to
sitcoms at that.

Speaker 5 (03:47):
Time on the opportunity. I mean, that was the place
where if you were a relatively young black writer, that
was a place where you could go in and get
an opportunity. I had a relationship with Damon who was
very instrumental in helping me get into the business, both
from a place of support and just teaching me a

(04:08):
lot about how the business worked. And it was a
great boot camp for me as well, because there's always
that place where you learn what you learn in college
and from practice, but it really doesn't start to solidify
until you start to really do it. You until you
start to make words that people are saying and things

(04:30):
that are getting shot. So sitcoms were a great place
for me to figure out what it was that I
was good at. It was also a place for me
to just learn and sort of get my feet.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
Wet, nice, nice nice.

Speaker 4 (04:45):
So like you said, you are you know, you shout
out the Waynes you was working with them. You also
work with Chris Rock when Everybody's Hate Chris, you know,
and I know this is I mean.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
Those are the like the too big too especially in
black TV.

Speaker 4 (04:58):
You know, you talk about the Martins, the ash Friends,
everybody Hates Chris and my Wife and Kids get thrown
in there.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
I need to know.

Speaker 4 (05:06):
I mean, obviously you had a longer stant on Everybody's
Hates Chris?

Speaker 2 (05:09):
But which set was? Which set was the funnest?

Speaker 4 (05:12):
Because I feel like, in my eyes, black sitcom sets
are just especially with druggernauts like Chris Rock and the
Waynes like that had like both of those sets had
to be hilarious as you went.

Speaker 5 (05:27):
Through, My Wife and Kids was probably the funner set.
Everybody Hates Chris was a single camera show, so we
shot it like a film, and you didn't really have
a whole lot of time to play. We in the beginning,
we shot My Wife and Kids before a live audience,
live studio audience, and this is before nine to eleven,

(05:49):
so it was looser. It felt more like play in
a way, and making a play and you know, everybody
hates Chris was fun at times, but I think it
was more like Chris Rock. Wasn't there a lot we
recorded his stuff over the phone. That was more of

(06:09):
a yeah, that was more of a and in the
booth and uh in adr but we would I wrote
all of that voice over. I wrote a good portion
of that and recorded it with Chris and put it
in the show. That was the first time I'd ever
done anything like that before. And that sort of solidified
my relationship with Chris because we worked together a lot.

(06:30):
But it wasn't so much always person to person. But
you know, to Sina Arnold, Terry creuz Tyler like everybody
was great and no, it was really just a great
experience being able to figure out my way. You know,
I think a lot of times when you're in your
first few jobs sort of create the type of writer

(06:52):
producer that you are. You know, it's kind of like
a religion. You step into it and you learn. And
I had some really great teach So in that way,
I was really really fortunate.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
Right, So I'm apologized ahead of time, so don't kill
me on this, right.

Speaker 4 (07:08):
So my introduction to you, like actually understand, like knowing
what your name is, who you are, and the stuff
that you were doing actually came from Six Guys One
Car Because you know, I was a huge dorm Tainment
fan and up until I started, you know, diving into
content creation, I was really just a fan of stuff.

(07:30):
So I never really looked into the writers. You know,
it was always superstar, superstar, superstar, right. But the one
thing that I know, and this is where I was like, Ooh,
I wonder where did this come from? Dorm Tainment has
a specific style of comedy, right, and where I loved
it for online. I always felt in Six Guys One Car,
and I even talked because I've interviewed.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
Ron, Emmanuel and Cam.

Speaker 4 (07:55):
I talked to all three of them, right, and I've
told them I said, in Six Guys won, it felt
like y'all was in y'all bag, y'all stepped it up.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
And when I realized that, so just now I'm trying
to figure out, like who who was who had hands
in this? And that's when I realized, I said, Oh,
I'm like, so who is Rodney Barnes?

Speaker 4 (08:12):
Because if you wrote help y'all on this, he nailed
it because he pulled out something like a good coach
he pulled. He made y'all go deep in y'all bag
with y'all writing and everything like that. And so I
was like for that because up until that point he
was working with actual, like you know, like just like
established actors, and then you jump into these social media comedians.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
Who are actually extremely talented.

Speaker 4 (08:35):
What was it like working like jumping into that and
making that transition of working with like some social media creators.

Speaker 5 (08:42):
It was great. I mean I looked at them and
I saw what you saw. You know, they had a
lot of talent, and it was more of trying to
harness a lot of times when you have social media folks,
everybody gets used to doing what they do. So if
you come from if you work primarily in film, it's
an adjustment working the TV, and if you come from
TV sometimes it could be an adjustment working to other

(09:04):
forms of media. And so for them, it was just
a matter of trying to take what it is that
they had and sort of create a shape to it
and to make it feel like it was a bridge
to television because a lot of times that short form
content is thirty seconds, three minutes, you know, it's not

(09:25):
a whole half hour. You know of programming and so
trying to take what they do and really create something
around it. But they had a lot. They brought a
lot to the table. I mean, it wasn't just me.
They brought a lot to the table on their own.
And they had a really good idea what they wanted
to do and what they did best, and so it
was really just an honor to be able to work

(09:46):
with them and you know, try to get their thing
going in a in a way that was more polished. No.

Speaker 4 (09:54):
Yeah, yeah, And that's why I said, like a good coach,
because you know, the way I look at it, you know,
not you know, as I started dying been deeper into creators,
I realized the collaborative effort that.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
Goes into the show. You know.

Speaker 4 (10:05):
Uh, you know, I I've had the blessings of being
able to, you know, just work with.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
Carl Jones or some stuff recently.

Speaker 4 (10:12):
You know, I've also you know, I'm taking my hand
you know at voice acting and acting. So like I'm
getting a little bit more insight on that collaborative effort.
So I know, a good executive producer, a good head
writer is not somebody that is writing the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
It is somebody who was able to inspire the.

Speaker 4 (10:34):
Team of writers on a project and make an amazing project,
you know. And so that's so that's why when I
when I watched Six Guys one Car said, oh, this
is an extension of what they can do if they
had you know what I'm saying, long form content, and
you know, they did that whole campaign get them boys
to show. You know, I was one of those people
that was also you know, like you know, reposted it

(10:56):
because again, like you said, what you saw as what
we saw as fan we knew that they had that
long form content thing and everything. So it was really
dope to see that come in to fruition. And again,
something that is so important to the culture with social
media stars being the big mega stars. You know, social
media stars are jumping into WWE and boxing and they're

(11:18):
in movies. Now came back. Either he gotta deal with
Netflix or something. Because every time I turn out, Netflix
came back just in a new movie. We saw Melovin
Gregg kill it in Snowfall. You know, it's like you're
seeing all these social media stars could turn to actual
just legit.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
Stars and killing it.

Speaker 4 (11:36):
So you know, and what's funny is you hear the
horror stories of you know, somebody like yourself, who is
you know, of the industry usually indifferent to social media
stars stepping in and trying to you know, elevate their game,
And it sounds like you you were more open and
receptive to it. Is there any specific reason that you

(11:57):
took that approach versus you know, for what we heard of,
just like Hollywood saying, oh, their social media, so we
don't expect the most of them, Like you seem to
have a high level of respect for those guys.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
That you work with. Where did that, Like, I guess
where did that mindset come from?

Speaker 5 (12:12):
Well, the reason that you know, you hire me in
the first place is because they already do a thing. Well,
you know, there's something that put them on the radar
of whoever it is is trying to make a show
whoever's interested in them. And it was Comedy Central at
the time. Yeah, and so you know, why try to
reshape you know, what they do, you know, instead of

(12:35):
trying to shine a light on it and add some
similar substructure to it. And I think people perform better
when they're comfortable in doing the thing that they do.
You know, It's like a fighter or a quarterback. You know,
if you can create an offense that supports the quarterback,
quarterback more often than not has success. And I think
it's the same way. You know with any endeavor. If

(12:58):
there's a degree of with comfort, to a degree comes confidence.
And I think being able to assist them in putting
and working from using what they do intrinsically and trying
to build out from there, I think you're more you know,
no one ever knows, but the odds work more in

(13:19):
your favor if you're working with someone's skill set than
against it. And then it just becomes ego if you
say no, you should do it my way. And I'm
only there to sort of steer the car. I'm not
there to reinvent the wheel.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
Oh man, that's a bar man. My brother left his
soundboard here. He usually is the only one that touches it.
But now that he left it here, I'm about to
go crazy.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
You know.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
That's one thing I love.

Speaker 4 (13:47):
About studios, And I wonder, you know, as a as
as a writer, as a producer, what was the set
that blew you away?

Speaker 5 (13:56):
Like?

Speaker 2 (13:57):
Was there any show, any set?

Speaker 4 (13:59):
Because I'm you worked on winning time and that's like
bringing you back in the past. You know, that's like
a moment and everything has to fit, you know, that
error and everything, and I would assume something like that
would be breathtaking, But for you, like, was there any
set of any property that you was on or that
you worked on?

Speaker 2 (14:16):
You know, wu.

Speaker 4 (14:17):
Tangsacle is another one that goes back into a person time,
but also you're working with Marvel.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
It would runaway, so you get the VFX is and
all that, But was there any set that you.

Speaker 4 (14:27):
Were a part of that just kind of like with
that blew you would wear like every time you stepped
in it.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
He was like, Wow, I am really here.

Speaker 5 (14:35):
I think, you know, winning Time is really impressive because
you know, we have to make it's not just recreating
a time, and it's also you know, making an audience
of five hundred people feel like twenty thousand. And I'm
always always overwhelmed with how our visual effects team on
the show is able to do what it is that

(14:57):
they do. But I think for me, the one that
sort of stands out is American Gods because I'm a
genre guy and I love the book and I love
Neil Gaiman's work and inspired me a lot. And being
able to be a part of that and just being
able to walk in and see, you know, the expanse
that they created was, you know, I'd never seen anything

(15:22):
quite like that. I worked on a bunch of movies
and TV shows before where effects were a big part
of the show, but nothing like that that sort of
supported the narrative and felt like mythology. So I'm going
to give American guys the nod for today.

Speaker 4 (15:39):
American Gods is always one of my recommendations to people
went up because I feel like a lot of for
whatever reason, a lot of people eyes didn't get to
American Gods and I'm just like, bro, like, y'all.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
Need to watch this. It's one of those ones.

Speaker 4 (15:53):
But I did want to really back to Winning Time.
I love that show. I had the pleasure of talking
with Rob Morgan. He gave me a little bit more
insight on that. But before we start, within a time,
me and you we kind of got like a little
beef going on right now because you are a known
seventy six Ers fan and Geek said it's from Milwaukee,

(16:14):
so you know, we are a Bucks fan and you
guys are kind of a little rival for us because
of it.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
But you know, we both were both in can't con
right now.

Speaker 4 (16:26):
But the one thing, and this is what this is
what takes me off about the seventies sixtions, right, and
this is an outside So this is why I.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
Wanted to just pick your brain on it.

Speaker 4 (16:37):
Are you still trusting the process because I never bought
into the nbing hype.

Speaker 5 (16:43):
Well, I think if you look at the process, and
this is respectful because it would be tough, especially the
lottery happening tonight, when you pick a player, you have
no idea. It's still you're hoping for the best. You
have no idea how that parry is gonna pan out.

(17:05):
It's funny when you hear people saying, oh, the Sixers
could have had Jason Tatum, or they could have added
this guy, that guy. No one knows, you know, no
one knows when they're going to it. So, you know,
I think if the process was building a team through
the draft, you know, Embiid is the only player that's
left from the beginning of that. So but that said,

(17:29):
he is the MVP of the league. And they did
make it to the second round. They made it to
the seventh game of the second round, So there's that
and I think, if anything, when you look at the roster,
and for some teams, you get like the Lakers, where

(17:49):
you're able to mid season just overhaul the team and
finding the exact right pieces and they get to the
Western Conference finals, almost like a miracle. But then you
look at a team like the Sixers, who you know,
they got MAXI, you got Hardening. You wonder if Hardened

(18:10):
fits what they do. He seems to struggle a little
bit when it comes to the playoffs or even though
he had two huge games. You know, a team is
kind of like its own ecosystem and its finding the
right pieces sometimes doesn't come down to town. I look
at a team like Memphis and who has a lot

(18:33):
of talent, but they don't seem to be able to
have the mindset to you know, get to that place
where they're playing with discipline.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
So I feel like Memphis is too young.

Speaker 4 (18:45):
They need they need a veteran that can go in
who may not be the most productive on points wise,
but far as culture and discipline, who's been there, like
a like you know, like a Igodawa. You know, like
they need somebody who has that experience or has them
you know, somebody like that that has a.

Speaker 5 (19:07):
That has a different it has a different mindset. Yeah,
so you know my seventy six ers. When I say
I'm a Sixers fan, I'm talking about Doctor j and them,
But you know I'm there. So when I talk now
because of free agency, I'm a fan of the game.
It's like players move so much. They Tyrie has been

(19:28):
on what four teams in the past four years. You know,
it's hard to really for me. I grew up. I
grew up in Maryland and the Baltimore Slash Washington Bullets
Wizards were the local team and you basically had the
same team like my whole life for a decade. You know,

(19:50):
your stars. Elvin Hayes was there the whole time, Wes
Unse was there the whole time, right, and you never change.
But usually when you had a star, that star stayed there.
And like Michael Jordan and Chicago, you don't except for
when he went to the Wizards at the end of
his career. But I don't think people look at that

(20:10):
as Michael Jordan. I think you look at the Bulls,
and so I said that to say that now I'm
more of a fan of the game, you know, Yeah,
I look at you know, the best part of the
uh of the playoffs right now is sort of the
stories that are told. You get into, you get locked

(20:32):
into a series and the changes, the ups and the
downs and everything that comes within a series, and then
that story ends and you start a new one. And
we just left the Lakers in Golden State. Now we
go to the Lakers in Denver, and that'll be a
completely different thing. And so I just want close games,
games that have you want the game. Yeah, I want

(20:55):
the tight games where you don't know who's gonna win,
where it's not a four gun conclusion and you know
it's You just want good basketball, and I think in
the age of free agency, that's the only place you
can really, you know, really sink your teeth into. I
just love good playing, great players. I just respect. It's

(21:15):
funny when I look at the NBA right now and
I played basketball coming up in high school and a
little bit in college, and it's a completely different game
than It's so fast even when I see high school,
like in sometimes in these little clips you see high
school players, you know, and the games, and they moved

(21:38):
so fast. Yeah, they jumped so high, and they do
things that pro players did. I couldn't have played that game,
I recognize.

Speaker 4 (21:46):
Remember running gun used to be like a style that
used to be and there was only a few teams
that did it. The reason why, yeah, the reason why
the Showtime Lakers was to Showtime Lakers is because they
disrupted the norm. You was like, wait a minute, did
you just throw a pass behind us back in regulation?

(22:08):
You know, like we used to only you used to
be only able to see that with the Harlem Globetrotters
on street ball, right, but you know, being also you know,
a seventy six ers fan from that error, how heartbreaking
was it to work on the winter time?

Speaker 2 (22:23):
Like I felt like I had to be a conflict
of interest a little bit.

Speaker 5 (22:26):
Maybe when I was younger, not so much right now.
I mean for me, that was sort of when I
fell in love with the game. Like before, I didn't know.
Before I didn't like they were superheroes. In the beginning,
I had posters on my wall of my favorite athletes
and that type of thing. But when I started to

(22:47):
play in high school, right around the time when I
was actually paying attention to the game, And it's sort
of now older being able to look back and say,
I'm revisit it in a time. It's like an homage
to a period. And even though I was very very
frustrated with, you know, my Sixers losing to the Lakers

(23:09):
on a regular basis except for eighty two eighty three,
it still was one of those things where you do
get to go back to that time and you go
back to the little short shorts and Doctor J and
Larry Bird and Magic Johnson and Kareem and you're revisiting
a time. And so that part of it is kind
of cool. You know, being able to music, the style,

(23:31):
all of that stuff is really really cool. And I
think that it's a similar to Wu Tang. You know,
Wu Tang was a similar thing too, of being able
to comic books, martial arts, movies, early hip hop, East Coast,
you know, all of the things that sort of go
into my development. It's it's cool to be able to

(23:55):
go back to these periods in time and to be
able to express yourself.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
You know. Yet, thanks man.

Speaker 4 (24:01):
And you know what's really dope about that, because this
what's Winning Time. And what I've what I've been loving
is I've been loving getting the behind the scenes right
now of Winning Time because the way that y'all did
the actual game shots, you know, like just the regulation
play and everything like that.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
In basketball just in general, it's been it's been.

Speaker 4 (24:21):
Some of the most fluid, some of the best cinemetry
that we've seen with basketball or sports movie and sports shows.
And you know, again, same thing with Wu Tang side
of you know, I know that you know you were
on primarily for the first season.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
I don't know that you were.

Speaker 5 (24:38):
I did the first season. Then I went to Winning Time.

Speaker 4 (24:40):
Winning Time, right, but even in general, like you know,
just the the late breaking things that that show did
with visualizing how you write a song or how music
is made right, and it's just like it's really dope
what you're bringing.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
To it, you know, to these shows.

Speaker 4 (24:57):
You know, I know again, I know it's a team effort,
but working on Winning Time that probably I would have
to believe that had to be a big part of Okay,
we're telling this story, but how are we going to
shoot when they're actually playing ball, you know.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
On the court.

Speaker 4 (25:15):
That creativity there, How did you have any input on that?

Speaker 5 (25:19):
I guess yeah. I mean the biggest thing for me
is when it comes to shooting basketball is I think
a lot of times when you see bad basketball shot
in movies and TV shows, it's because you're trying to
recreate the greatest players ever playing basketball, which you can't do.
You know, you'll never be able to really duplicate Magic

(25:42):
Johnson or Kareem or any of those guys that way.
But if you can capture moments within a game that
tell a story, that connect with the story that you're
trying to tell, you can recreate a feeling.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (25:54):
And I think when you're able to connect the play
with the feeling and the story and not try to,
you know, recreate the game itself, I think you're in
a better place narratively, and I think you're you can
connect with the audience in an easier, more realistic way.

(26:14):
If you notice, with Winning Time, we very rarely shoot
a whole game of basketball. It's usually moments, and you
capture those moments, and you connect those moments to not
just the wins and the losses, but also to the
overall connection to character and what's happening in the plot,
in the story and all of that stuff. And so

(26:37):
that's where I think winning Time wins, you know, is
that we're not trying to we're not trying to duplicate
that thing. We only duplicate moments. And so, you know,
I don't want to name the shows because I know
everybody's doing the best that they can. But you know,
oftentimes you'll see actors trying to be basketball players. Yeah,

(27:00):
come do it better than others. You know, for me,
the original White Men can't jump, you know, sort of
made it feel like street basketball and you could tell
that these guys weren't pros per se, but they were
hustlers and that felt real, that felt familiar. But yeah,

(27:20):
that's all we're trying to do is to tell we're
not just telling the story of basketball players playing basketball.
We're also telling the stories of the people in this
organization at that period.

Speaker 4 (27:29):
Yeah, you know what, this is where I can tell,
like your nerds, iide hopped in in that show because
the way that you guys made the scot the skyhook
is already epic.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
It has a lord to it, like the skyhook might as.

Speaker 4 (27:44):
Well be the hot dukin like, you know, because it
is that and the way that y'all shot it it
reminded me of a comic book when somebody's about to
pull out their special ultimate move. When Captain America grabs
the shield and it has that epic way that it looks.
That's how I did the skyhook. That's what grabbed me
because I was like, yo, like, hey man, that like

(28:06):
we here obviously you know what I'm saying. There's a
lot of there's a lot of people, especially in basketball
right now. You can watch footage and you can hear
people talk about how unguardable the skyhook was. But until
you actually see it or you're actually the defender trying
to block it, you don't really understand it. But I
feel like y'all captured it well, y'all made it seem
so epic, And I said, you know what, that's exactly

(28:28):
how envisioned the skyhook.

Speaker 5 (28:30):
Yeah. I mean, I think in shout out to Solomon Hughes,
who plays the great kareemd Uh. You know, a lot
of that is the testament of him, you know, taking
his time and patience to learn that, you know that,
and also understanding the game in the sense of you
had a lot of things culturally that went into the game,

(28:51):
like when Rick Barrier would do the underhanded free throw. Yeah,
you know, and you know Kareem skyhook. Those were very's
anonymous with the time. You don't see a lot of
players doing that today, they don't utilize. Lebron did one
the other day. It didn't look like Kareems, but he
did a hook and they says, oh, the Skyhooky went

(29:12):
back to the skyhook. It's like that wasn't a skyut.
It was you know, Kareem had his way of flicking
the wrists in a very specific way and getting above everybody,
almost like dropping the ball into the hoop. Well, that's
a very skilled, unique shot. That sort of again when
you talk about the evolution of the game. And I

(29:34):
was listening to the NBA network on a serious radio
this morning, and they were talking about dunking, and they
were talking about Vince Carter's dunks and all of that,
and his in game dunks against in the Olympics against
the Lithuanian when he dunked overall and the dunk against
Alonzo Mourning and that, and I was thinking about, you know,

(29:58):
Doctor Ja's dunks again, Bill Walton in the seventy seven finals,
and just his in game dunk. Seemed like every game
there was a moment where you're going to get one
or two incredible dunks and you know, that was to
me the drama in the theater of it. But when
you watch the evolution of the game to where now

(30:19):
you could get that from damn near any player at
any moment. The thing that used to be incredibly unique
to just the stars, because the game has evolved to
a certain place, even the dude, the twelfth dude on
the bench could do something incredible, you know, And you
go to the lab lines of any pro game and
you see damn near dunk contests because it's so that

(30:44):
the athleticism and the speed and just the power that
these guys have, it continues to evolve and evolve and evolved.
So you wonder all of that to say, if a
shot like the sky hook, you know, could be as
dominant today as it was yesterday. You wonder if somebody
be up there and block that could embid or I

(31:08):
don't know if joked, because I seemed like I can
jump hide in him.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
But I feel like would be the one that wouldn't
be able to.

Speaker 5 (31:16):
Robert Williams, any of these really athletic even the Clint
Capellas of the world. You know, these guys who are
long and lean and can just jump out of the
gym and are seven feet tall, and now you've got
seven footers who stop at the three point line. You know,
call Anthony Towns and they don't play like centers down
on the block.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
They don't put them back to the glass anymore, no,
very rarely.

Speaker 5 (31:40):
And you know, I hear Shaq and Barkley were you know,
kind of getting on embiid and saying, you got Anthony
Davis and you got to get back on the block,
and you got to get down on the black. And
it's like, that's not how they play anymore. You know,
Anthony Davis will is more of a mid range shooter
sometimes and a three point shooter at times. Then you know,
it's a lot of al oops. Now I guess the

(32:01):
Golden Stakers they're all like six or four. But you know,
it's a different game. It's different game.

Speaker 4 (32:10):
It's it's crazy because so like the two players that
I feel like if they put them back to the
basketball just primarily, they would dominate, because every time they
do it, it works, but they just always straight away
from it is Johanna's NB, Janna's MBID, both of them,
literally them is the only people that can really stop
them on the inside can stop and B and me

(32:31):
can stop Jihnis.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
That is the only ones really because Anthony Davis, as
big as he is, doesn't have the strength to stop
both of them.

Speaker 4 (32:39):
Right, But you see both Joannis nn B constantly going
back out to and shooting at three because exactly what
you said, the game is not played like that, and
it's crazy.

Speaker 5 (32:49):
But I remember just the coaching that I had back. Yeah,
young and you wouldn't shoot, get down on the block,
immediately run to the block you shoot if you were
four or five. You were supposed to get down on
the block when you lived, and you were supposed to
post up and get the ball, drop step one way

(33:10):
or the other and baby hook or you know, lay
up or dunk if you can. So games change, Games change, man,
game change. So, speaking of the running in the NFL,
it's like, now you want a running quarterback. And they
used to say the pocket passer was the thing. You
can't pass my pocket. Now everybody's looking for the running quarterback.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
Looking for a scrambler.

Speaker 4 (33:31):
But so, speaking of games changing, you actually had the unique,
the unique moment of being able to see when we
ask blurds were fighting for a representation, and it wasn't
there to now where we have blurred cons We have
blurred conventions, there's blurred websites.

Speaker 2 (33:53):
The word and the term blurred is more prominent and dominant.

Speaker 4 (33:57):
And there's so many more black folks diving into our futurism, horror, anime,
comic books, video games.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
For you, seeing the industry shift like that, how has
that been? Being able to experience that but also be
a part of it?

Speaker 5 (34:12):
It keeps you motivated, you know, a lot of times
throughout my career it's been about trying to introduce narratives
to the culture, to pop culture, and oftentimes that means
working within a construct that isn't your culture, you know,
and you have to sort of fit. You got to

(34:33):
fit somebody else's understanding of what your culture is into
their box. And a lot of that has had to
do in a comic book space of you know, when
I grew up, comic books were on spinner racks. You know,
you could get them at the corner store, you can
get them at the liquor store. It seems like everywhere
you went there were comic books, and then they sort

(34:55):
of made this migration to comic shops. And if you
don't don't have a comic shop in your era, in
your area, you know, where do you get them from?

Speaker 4 (35:05):
You know?

Speaker 5 (35:05):
And you know, people ask me where do you get Blacular?
You know, and I'm like Amazon, you know. And it's
a natural thing to me, because if you don't have
a comic shop in your area, this is what you do.
But you know, trying to get as many books in
the hands of black people as you possibly can, to me,

(35:26):
has always been the the the issue, you know, because
just because of like I said, comic shops. But that said,
and then a lot of times comic shops that cater
to one particular audience may not carry as many Milestone
books or as many indie indie books, yeah as others.

(35:49):
So it's like, you know, that's difficult. There were a
lot of comic shops that didn't carry Blacular, you know,
or you know, most carry Philadelphia because it's an image book,
but you know, Nita Hall's Nightmare Block, they might not
carry that, or Monarch or you know, one of my
other books. And so this blurred that, this social media

(36:11):
blurred movement. Folks like Fantastic Frankie and people like yourself
and others. And I got the other brother. I'm sorry
it's enough of them, though.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
I'm pretty sure.

Speaker 5 (36:24):
That they're out there and they have a voice, and
they're blown up social media, and they give people like
me and other writers of color a platform. They give
us a place where it's another way of all of
us connecting, because fandom is the lifeblood of any of this.
You know, if you don't have people who promote what
it is that we do, we die. You know, the

(36:46):
thing dies because at the end of the day, as
much as it is love, it's business. So people have
to read the books, by the books, enjoy the books
in order for us to be able to keep this
thing going. And the fact that they live and they're
so passionate about it, right, and they keep us out there.
And that's why I rarely say no to interviews, you know,

(37:07):
and talking to virtually anybody, because I'm appreciative. I'm appreciative
of a community. Like when I was growing up, I
had four or five friends that I read comic books,
traded books, will argue with, fought with. You know, they
stole my books, I stole their books. And we were
just friends who love comic books. And now to find

(37:28):
that we have a whole community that we're building that
has structure to it, that has a voice, It is passionate,
it's a beautiful thing. And so that whole blurred idea,
it's powerful and it can move and influence how stories
are told, how stories are distributed, and hopefully keep this

(37:49):
thing going and create a movement to where more honest
depictions of characters come to pass and more diverse stories.
And I don't mean that by just like different ways
of showing blackness. I mean just different ways of telling stories.

(38:11):
Like it doesn't just have to be superhero stories. It
can be horror stories, it can be mysteries, it could
be supernatural stuff, it could be anything. It could be anything.
And just being able to have a community sort of
reinforces that possibility that more people are going to try
more things. And there's a group of brothers that just

(38:32):
did a book, a Second Sight publisher that did the
book Shook, and I'm one of the contributing writers on
that book. And just to be able to bond with
a group of writers artists of color and be able
to write you a story and just be able to
contribute to something like that as an honor, and so
all of it comes from the passion of the community

(38:54):
and the passion of creators, and it's a beautiful thing.
I'm honored to be a part of it.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
Like everybody has the stereotypical on what a black geek is.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
Are you familiar with the term blur?

Speaker 4 (39:05):
But some people said it came off of scrubs, some
people said it came off the Internet.

Speaker 5 (39:10):
I don't honestly really know. Don't you see the skin,
the eyebrows, the hair.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yo, My geeks still rock.

Speaker 5 (39:20):
You know what I'm saying, dumps or or Jordan's or
whatever did I do that? It's exciting. It's like home,
Oh my god, it's gonna start barking.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
That's all right. She's excited about it too.

Speaker 4 (39:33):
And same as you said, like a barbershop talk, like
we would go into really in depth conversations about these theories.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
And like well what if and I'll come.

Speaker 5 (39:46):
Right.

Speaker 4 (39:46):
But we we talk about anime, video games, comic books
and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
But when you hear us talk about it, the passion
sounds like we arguing Jordan and bron what does that
even mean? Does that even mean? Like it sounds like
barbershop talking.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
Because you don't know the history.

Speaker 5 (40:06):
Broke that down right there.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
But when you see the black gek, you don't see that.
You see the socially awkward glasses. Well, this is me
and that's not a lot of us. A lot of
us do sound and talk like us, you know what
I'm saying, because it becomes stereotypical as if that's where
our strength comes from. I don't know the geeks that
you talk with, that you that you talked about before.
I know the geek you talking about right now.

Speaker 4 (40:32):
It was sort of a call sign so we can
find each other on message boards. Anime gives you life
lessons throughout that whole thing, Like, there's not one anime.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
That I know of that doesn't teach you to never
give up.

Speaker 4 (40:46):
It's just like, I just love seeing us going through
ropes and going to different spaces and create.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
Things that weren't there before.

Speaker 6 (40:53):
And then it was like Miles Brow was like the normal,
you know, black person in the United States. That was
my first like blurred moment with seeing you know, Storm
on an X Men cartoon series, and I was like, Wow,
that's a black woman and she's strong, she's powerful.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
That's what I want for us. I want us to
be that voice. No, you're you're You're definitely heavily.

Speaker 4 (41:31):
You're you're a big person of this culture because you know,
as I started getting into the podcast game and just
kind of just being in these doing these interviews, one
of the things that I love is just seeing like
how influential people are. And I've been loving like seeing
like you said, you named a few people, but I've
also been loving seeing how people get inspired by other people. Right,

(41:54):
So as a writer, right, you know, I'm talking to
I'm talking to other writers, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
I'm talking to other artists, digital artists, kind of book creators.

Speaker 5 (42:03):
You know.

Speaker 4 (42:04):
I talked to the brother Justin Richburgh. You know, he's
doing all those influential pieces. You know, that's kind of
like starting conversations on social media. But then also talk
to Marco Bernard, who, like I clown with him all
the time. I say, bro, the reason why Twitter loves
furries so much in that whole kink, I feel like
it's his fault because he made he made move Fassa

(42:26):
and Scar Look you know what I'm saying, look swagged
out and now the ladies is going crazy. But it's
like I'm loving getting the different aspect of not only
the talent, but then it transpires and it transfers over
and you see somebody like Michael B. Jordan who's heavily
influenced by anime throwing it into creed. And so it's
like when we're seeing scenes of nerd culture, we're like

(42:49):
cinemas like, oh my god, the way that the crowd
went away when.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
When Michael B. Jordan punched Jonathan Major's that was amazing
and to slow down. But then me, who loves anime,
I'm watching the like.

Speaker 4 (43:00):
Yo, we just did the dragon ball Z thing, and
it was like, it's just I just love seeing how
how us how we are bringing our swagger in our creativity,
in our thought processing, but also we're uplifting.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
I see so many more people crediting people. You know,
when they Swen.

Speaker 4 (43:19):
Marvel announced Blade, the amount of people, I said, oh
my god, I can't wait for this.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
Y'all better tap in with Rodney Barnes.

Speaker 4 (43:26):
I was like, that just warmed my heart because I'm like, yes,
because you know what I'm saying, It's one of those
things that we got to make sure that not only
we preserve the people that were involved, but like even
if there's a whole new set of writers, you at
least deserve to be brought in just to be like, hey,
you know, we know you was a part of everything.

Speaker 2 (43:44):
You know, let's let's let's chop it up with let's
chop it over with Rodney Barnes, you know, like that.

Speaker 5 (43:48):
And to your point, not to cut you off the
outside TV executive culture and off they don't know. Yeah,
like they don't know who's connected to what because they
don't readcat you're not in that world. You need somebody
to bring attention to the other thing, you know, to

(44:09):
bring attention to us, because they just don't. They don't
see if they win until it becomes a huge hit.
When it becomes a huge hit, then they pay attention.
Oh this thing sold a million blah blah blah. But
as it's growing, as the thing is growing, oftentimes they
have no idea.

Speaker 4 (44:24):
Yeah, and you know, and but then also we're saying,
but that's why I also love that how we're empowering
other people in other positions.

Speaker 2 (44:32):
Right, So it's like, you know, there there may be
that young TV executive that we're.

Speaker 4 (44:36):
Chopping it up that we know on the timeline, but
we are encouraging that person to get into the rooms.
So that way when those when those old TV execs
who don't know can be like, Okay, we're doing this,
and then that young TV is that who do know, like, hey,
hey are we are you bringing to Rodney Barnes.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
One of the greatest stories that I heard of in
Blurred Culture, and it.

Speaker 4 (44:57):
Changed my mind was the Blurred Girl and how her
how she became established because she was saying that, you know,
she was working for a company and the company.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
Doctor who was announcing their new doctor.

Speaker 4 (45:12):
And she was saying that when it was flashing the
pictures across the big screen and everything like that, the
company didn't know who it was. And so she was like,
y'all don't know the doctor. And so it is stuff
like that. It's a lot of big companies and everything.
So you know, with you, you jumped, you jumped industries,

(45:33):
well not industry, but you jumped your focus from reduction
to writing in twenty seventeen, right, that's when you got
your first, you know, your first crack at doing your
first love right because you said, you know, you love
comic books and everything like that, and Birth of a
Patriot was the first thing that you did was it
was the short of Marvel Comics correct or was there
something before?

Speaker 5 (45:51):
That was my first comic. I was working on the
show Marvel's Runaways, and they liked what I was doing
and we had a conversation. I don't know how it started,
but my thing was, if there's any way you could
connect with Marvel Publishing and just let them know, I

(46:12):
would love to be able to write comics. And comics,
like commercials or anything else, is its own culture. It
has its own kind of ecosystem and the way that
it works. And so I got a call one day
that they had they were thinking about redoing the Falcon
and he wasn't going to be Captain America for a while.
He was going to beat Falcon and would'd be interested

(46:33):
in working on it. And they were like, he's going
to be teaming with the Patriot, and we're going to
give you this short to see whether or not it
works in Breath of a Patriot. And they really liked
the short that I wrote, and so then they gave
me a book and it was the ongoing book, and
the first three issues I struggled. I had no idea,

(46:55):
like it was a lot harder than I thought. And
I think I sort of wrote to a place where
I was writing to the fan. I was writing to
the guy I was in the eighties. You know, I
wasn't really writing to what comics were today. And the

(47:16):
beautiful thing is they have this thing called Twitter. I
don't know if you heard of it before.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
I think I heard about it.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
I think so.

Speaker 5 (47:22):
And people could tell you immediately, you know, what they
think about what you're doing. One dude that hated what
I was doing. And I was in this movie called
The Post Tom Hanks, The Washington Post, and my phone
kept jumping in my hand, because when you're a TV producer,

(47:42):
you carry your phone with you all the time. You
put it in you you just leave it in your
hand twenty four hours a day. Rhone kept buzzing, buzz't, buzzy, buzzy, bun.
I looked at it was Twitter, Twitter, Twitter, Twitter, and
it was this dude. And he didn't stop all weekend.
And it were people who was agreeing with him about
how bad this book was. And I'm hurt, I'm mad
on all of this stuff, but within his criticism there

(48:05):
was some truth and four it affected how I wrote
the fourth issue, And I always look at the fourth
issue of The Falcon as my first book because it
was the first time that I wrote with my voice
and did what I wanted to do and the way
that I wanted to do it, and very proud of

(48:27):
where we ended. But all of it was a process
of learning. It's like if you try to any creative endeavor,
anything that you do, there's a period where you got
to figure it out. And if you approach it with
the place of it's got to be perfect from the
starting gates, you're gonna struggle because very few people are
perfect from the starting gates.

Speaker 4 (48:47):
And so.

Speaker 5 (48:50):
From that point out doing Coincredible, and Lando Double or Nothing,
and you know, so many other books. Getting into Philadelphia,
I was able to figure out what my voice was.
I was able to figure out like in television, I
know what I do best. In comics, I didn't know.
And I had to learn to work with the artists.

(49:11):
I had to learn to work with the art and
not take up How can I say the most with
the least amount of words? You know? I had to
learn all of those things. And really, much like my
TV career, I've had the opportunity to fail. I've had
the opportunity to do things poorly and do things relatively well.
And over time, you do something long enough, you're going

(49:34):
to get better at it. And I was able to
figure out how I wanted to do comics, and I
think that made me better as a creator.

Speaker 4 (49:43):
Awesome, you know, but you've also I think what's really
dope is that you're living what you also speak because
you've done multiple interviews where people, you know, especially I mean,
it's nerd culture, so obviously everybody he has.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
Their opinions about something and everything like that.

Speaker 4 (50:03):
And I love your approach because I never really hear
you downplay any property or any or any writer that
who's trying to find their voice.

Speaker 7 (50:13):
And you've said the same multiple times, like, hey, you
got to give them some opportunity to find their voice.
You got to give them that time. And you know,
I do like that You're you're speaking for them things
that you love.

Speaker 4 (50:24):
One of our slogans is geek love what you do,
do what you love, because if you do it from
a place of love or you know then it you're gonna.

Speaker 2 (50:33):
Put your best foot forward.

Speaker 4 (50:34):
You know, most properties fail or most things that fail
due to like you know that.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
It's already beloved.

Speaker 4 (50:41):
It fels because whoever was involved in it really didn't
care about the character. You know. You know, one of
the one of my biggest issues with Justice League and
Batman Versus Superman when it first came out, like the movie,
is that it felt like whoever was in charge they
didn't really care about the lore of DC, because you know,
it's small things. I'm like, look here, I love Jesse

(51:02):
Eisenberger as an actor, but when you think Alex Luther,
you think of a dominant, strong businessman and I'm sorry,
Jesse Eisenberg doesn't give me that. So it's stuff like
that that I was like. But then you see something
like Kevin Feigy and what and how he loves Marvel
or Favreau and how he loves Star Wars and everything
that he's been doing with Star Wars and expanding that

(51:24):
that world.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
You know what I'm saying. With George Lucas and everything.

Speaker 4 (51:26):
It's like, when you put somebody in charge who loves something,
it's only going to produce the best.

Speaker 5 (51:33):
But I think sometimes, in all fairness, I think it's
all sort of a bridge. Like I'm old enough to
remember those early Captain America TV shows and The Hulk and.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
All of it.

Speaker 5 (51:54):
As a kid, and you know, all of that is
built on everything is built on everything else. Yeah, very
rarely do you find a guy. You see a guy
like a Kevin Figi, but also you see Kevin Fige's
ability to find to develop a philosophy and to find

(52:17):
people who are willing to work within that philosophy. Yes,
that's a rare That's a rare trait in leadership, oftentimes
in Hollywood because a lot of times when people hire somebody,
their job is on the line as to how that
person works out on the job. So a lot of

(52:40):
times fear is a part of it. So you're trying
to make the safest choice that you can, but you're
still working with odds. It goes back to that thing
that we talked about, like with the NBA draft, Like
you can look at the NBA Draft and you can
say the top ten first round draft picks, how often
does more than five of them have more than a

(53:02):
three four year career? And how many out of that
top ten become stars? Like you know, stars beyond like
you know all time great players, right, and all you're
doing is guessing, you know, it's like you're hoping that
the person that you hire. So when you say love,
I would bet that everybody who did those DC movies

(53:24):
loved in the same way that Fabreau did and the
same way that Figy did. Zack Snyder, I'm sure loves
the DC universe and the things that he did as
much as the other guys did. It's just that in
that moment, maybe it wasn't the right time. Maybe it
wasn't it didn't connect in the same way. It's like
anytime I see a movie that works, because there's so

(53:47):
many movies that don I went to a movie last
night screening of the movie The Boogeyman.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
Oh Man, Yeah, I've seen an aspat.

Speaker 5 (53:54):
I was expecting to not like it. I was expecting
to hate it. Quite frankly. Stephen King is one of
my top, if not my favorite writer of all time
and very very influential of my career, and most of
the movies, a good portion of the movies aren't the
best movies. You know, they focus on one thing or
the other, and they really don't capture the Stephen King

(54:14):
of it all, which is, you know, family and some
type of human connection and then something in it as
a monster, a vampire or whatever it is. But this
was really good. It was really really good, and I
enjoyed it a great deal. And the danger is becoming

(54:35):
so cynical or one dimensional in my thinking that I
don't just say when something doesn't work out, well, that
person didn't love it, or that person didn't care, or
that person. It is hard. This is hard, like TV
are hard. And when I was younger and a little
less season Yeah, but it's not even that more. It

(54:57):
goes more seasoning goes to the job. The other part
is me, my own insecurity, my own ignorance, the things
in me that I go to and judging, you know,
when I would judge another person's work or judge another thing.
I've had scripts that didn't work out. I've had things
that didn't work out, and I put just as much
love and care into them as I did the things

(55:18):
that did work out. Sometimes the ingredients are don't always
flow in the way that you want them to flow.
I will say, I think sometimes the only negative in it,
and it may not even be a negative. I'll say,
with the DC universe versus the Marvel universes, it doesn't
seem to be any cohesion. Yeah that you know, you

(55:41):
can look at one movie and you don't see I
won't say a singular focus because you don't have to
have a singular focus, but that doesn't seem to be unity.
And how they put all of the things together, and
in the Marvel universe there seems to be some degree
of connectivity. It's different in phase four or five whatever

(56:02):
we're in right now. But when they first came out,
those early movies really laid ten polls for what, Yeah,
the larger thing was going to be. I don't know
if that ever happened, because every Batman resurrection is different,
like the Joel is different than the guy that did
Sleepy how Old the first Batman forget his name, But

(56:27):
you know, you have the Christopher Nolan Batman, and you
have this Batman and that Batman, and how do they
connect to this Superman you know, and that Superman. And
so it's hard to get any traction to where you're
able to create in the same way that the other
folks do their thing. But that said, I don't doubt
that those people are any more committed than the than

(56:49):
the other people.

Speaker 4 (56:50):
So and I agree because like I said, you know
what you said, was like even with Figy when he
when he with that those first few even up until now,
you gotta think he brought in James Gunn, and James
Gunn believed into it, like you said.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
The system. He had the Russo brothers and they believed
in the system.

Speaker 4 (57:06):
So you have all these people, amazing directors, amazing writers,
amazing production staff that all believe in the system and
it works into it.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
Right. So then you see, like I said, Favro jumped.

Speaker 4 (57:15):
Over there with Lucas Films and everything like that, and
you see everything people believing in the system already with
the Lucas. So I think, you know, with James Gunn
seeing how that happened at Marvel, I said, I'm giving
him some grace that because I'm DC over Marvel at first.

Speaker 2 (57:30):
Like I was always a DC comics guy.

Speaker 4 (57:33):
Has been rough on the movies, but like the animated
and their comics in me have been always top tier.

Speaker 5 (57:39):
And I mean a really smart guy. I mean, he's
a really brilliant guy.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
Yeah, and I believe I believe in him.

Speaker 4 (57:45):
You know, I really like what he just did with
Guardians that that was just amazing and one of my
biggest concerns and for James Gunn, but I remember on
one thing that he did with gives me a little
bit of red insurance, is that like when I think
of my DC characters versus what he did at like

(58:05):
with a Marvel and even with Suicide Squad, like Harley
Quinn could easily be a Marvel character because she's a
character with charismatic like she has charismatic quips, you know
where it's like, you gotta write those jokes where I
don't see Batman or Bruce Winging really having those jokes.
Superman is the straight ball, Like I don't need that
type of style in my DC. But then I remember

(58:27):
he did Brightburn and I said, oh, bright Burn was masterful.
So it's like, Okay, he knows how to do that,
or he knows how to you know what I'm saying, make.

Speaker 2 (58:35):
A character that is layered.

Speaker 4 (58:37):
But also it doesn't have to have a joke, because
you know, Marvel's family fun and in my I mean,
DC can be family fun like in my eyes, you know,
you know the Flash, Wally West, that whole universe.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
They can have more of the family fun.

Speaker 4 (58:51):
But it's like you got the Dark Knight, like I
don't need Batman cracking jokes Superman, you know he I mean,
Carter kn't he's the butt of the jokes at times
because you know he he uh, he dumbs down, you know,
his his image and everything.

Speaker 2 (59:04):
So like there's rare ways you can play with that.

Speaker 4 (59:06):
But it's like, I know, like DC is generally more darker,
and I need to make sure I hope that James
Gunn doesn't try to recreate what they did over at
Marvel and realize because that's always to me, it's always
been the good balance.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
When DC went Family Fund because there was a there
was an error I forgot which run.

Speaker 4 (59:25):
When DC had their run where it's like, okay, everything
seems like really more family friend.

Speaker 2 (59:30):
Marvel went dark.

Speaker 4 (59:31):
You know, they started diving into X Men, they started
diving in those political things.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
So it's like just understanding that balance.

Speaker 4 (59:37):
So you know, when we're talking about you know, people
having those runs, because we talked about fav Ro and
what he's doing over there with Star Wars and Fig
and everything that he you know that he did with Marvel,
I always wanted to ask a writer and a producer
just in general because you know, you see, uh, Fig
kicked off the Marvel Cinematic universe with.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
With Iron Man. You know which it's which was an
interesting choice put it so masterfully.

Speaker 4 (01:00:01):
He was just known enough where people would be like, Okay,
I want to check it out, but he wasn't like,
you know, the big gun, but now he's a big
gun in Marvel obviously DC. A lot of the times
they start off with Batman and Superman and everything like that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
Let's say let's.

Speaker 4 (01:00:16):
Say, you know, because we know like there's you know,
with Rebirth and with everything of that nature where people
get their runs, which faction would you like to adapt?

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
And then who would be your first character?

Speaker 4 (01:00:28):
So it could be Image Comics, it could be Milestone,
it can be a Marvel revamp, it could be a DC.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
But if somebody said, you know what, we're.

Speaker 4 (01:00:35):
Gonna give Roddy Barnes the Helm to our franchise, which
franchise would you like to be at the helm of?

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
And who would be a first character?

Speaker 5 (01:00:44):
Well, my first choice is my Khiladelphia world that I'm
working on right now. But outside of Khiladelphia, it would
probably be swamp Thing and the Dark Justice characters that
sort of inhabit that world of Constantine's Atana Eetrigan and

(01:01:06):
you know Jason Woodrew and those folks, big fan of
that world.

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:01:11):
You know what's funny is a lot of people don't
really understand how powerful swamp Thing is, how connected he
is to the Earth, and.

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
How he's really not a villain.

Speaker 4 (01:01:20):
You know, a lot of people always paint him as
one of Batman's role galleries and in a sense, I mean,
I can see it. But the thing about swamp Thing
is that he is a protector of the Earth. So
pretty much, if you don't mess with Earth, he ain't
messing with you. But if you mess with Earth then
then yeah, swamp Thing will have to come out. And
you know there's that horror aspect to it. But you know,

(01:01:41):
as funny is, I just did another comic book podcast
and we were talking about like which properties that we
would love to see, and I said, Zatana would be
one of my top because the dive more into the
magic realm and everything that deals with her and her
powers would be so so dope. Man, Like, that'd be

(01:02:01):
something that I think would be dope. And I know
that you are a big horror buff because you love
horror movies. Horrors is your thing, and everything like that.
I mean, you start at your own studio and you
named it Z which is really dope. Like I said,
I love, I do love the name Zombie Love Studios
and everything I wanted to kind of get into that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
I mean, obviously Philadelphia that is a Zombie Love product
as well.

Speaker 5 (01:02:23):
Well, yes, nowadays I'm putting all the books that I
do under the Zombie Love banner, whether they're for Image
or any other company. But yeah, I mean, Zombie Love
Studios really came about because even within comics, with television
and film, it's obvious that when you get an idea,
you have to pitch it to somebody unless you write

(01:02:45):
the spec yourself. Yeah, but if you're trying to get
paid to do it, you have to pitch it to
somebody and they got to say yes. And you know,
it's an arduous task sometimes if you're trying to write
to culture and specificity and nuance to people that don't
understand the specificity and nuance that you're it adds another
layer of the selling process and hoping that somebody understands

(01:03:07):
what you what you're trying to accomplish, it makes it difficult.
And so I just wanted to create a place where
I could create something. I could come up with an
idea and have a place to just go. Like, I
could come up with an idea and if I wanted
to make it into whatever, I could just do that

(01:03:31):
and I wouldn't have to ask anybody for permission. That said, No,
man is an island, you know, even the biggest of whoever.
You still have to have partners and people who believe
in what you do and support what you do because
it's a very expensive endeavor, you know, comics, whatever you're

(01:03:53):
trying to make. That said, I think I'm sort of
taking a step forward and being able to create that
space for myself. And comics are the first step writing
features that Lord Willing will be able to you know,

(01:04:17):
shoot pike Bone and so it's just really trying to
create a home for the style of writing that I
do in the types of things that I want to create.

Speaker 4 (01:04:28):
Awesome, awesome, all right, So we got two more segments
and we got to get out of here. We got
a first one that we call Hypotheticals, you know, and
it's a little bit of fun, but you know, with
you being a lover of horror genres and everything, we're
going to focus on some apocalyptic scenarios I want to know.

Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
Okay, it's a two layered question.

Speaker 4 (01:04:45):
So first layer, in apocalyptic scenario, which scenario do you
believe that you and the skill set that you have
you will be able to last as long as in
we have the zombie apocalypse, the alien apocalypse, and the
robotic apocalypse. Which apocalypse do you feel that Rodney Barnes
has the most likelihood to survive?

Speaker 5 (01:05:05):
The long is in zombies?

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
Zombies? All right?

Speaker 4 (01:05:08):
So now the second lary, Now we're gonna break it down,
all right, So first zombies versa style of zombies. We
got your traditional walking Dad zombies. If you had to
put a year on a walking Dad zombie style world apocalypse,
how how what's the year count that Rodney will be
able to survive?

Speaker 5 (01:05:26):
Uh? You mean how long would I be able to survive? Yes?
Within that I think I could survive until I'm tired
of surviving if I had the resources. I mean, it
all comes down to resources, having enough food and drink,
and having enough shelter and weapons. But if I saw

(01:05:46):
it coming, like with aliens, it's too unpredictable. The war
the world's aliens where they can have the tripods and
blow up everything. There's nothing you can do about it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:56):
There's nothing you can do for that.

Speaker 5 (01:05:58):
And then the other one was what was the other one?

Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
Robot? Robots?

Speaker 5 (01:06:04):
Yeah, robots you can't reason with. So they did a
War of the World's Robot theme one on Epics not
too long ago. And eventually because they don't die, Yeah,
they can just keep going, like the Terminator. So it's toughness,
get that one. But zombies, it's a matter of.

Speaker 1 (01:06:22):
Time, okay, So I'm gonna gotta be able.

Speaker 5 (01:06:26):
I don't know if the zombies are immortal, like how
long did they live in that type of thing.

Speaker 4 (01:06:30):
Well, we're going off a traditional zombie rules that we know.
Cut the head, they out of here. So now here's
the second zombie though, the day z and the like
the like, the the thirty days twenty eight days later zombies,
the runners.

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
How you're faring against the runners, it.

Speaker 5 (01:06:50):
Would be tougher, but the same rules apply. I mean,
I think same rules apply. I mean it's almost like
the Last of Us as well, where you're running from something,
but if you can create, if you can create your
own safe space, kind of like the episode three of
Last of Us where you got a house with a

(01:07:12):
big fence around it, enough food in town, you can
live until you decide to die. So I would like
to think that's where I would exist. Then that's the
place that I would exist in.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
All right, So here's the last one. This is the wrench.

Speaker 4 (01:07:25):
The wrench in the plans, you got your resident evil
style zombie, meaning any animal, any living being can.

Speaker 1 (01:07:31):
Pretty much be a zombie. How long you're giving yourself
in that type of world.

Speaker 5 (01:07:36):
Same, I mean, I would probably not be around a
lot of people, just my core group. Okay, you limited
to a few. Your odds improved. You don't congregate with others,
your odds improved. And I think at a certain point,
i'd like to think that kind of like in the

(01:07:56):
book to Stand, the world would divide itself into the
good peace people in the bad. Yeah, you know, I
think there's a polarization of ideologies, much like we see
in the political world today. And I'm not judging you
as good or bad, but people see things right or left,
and I think we would sort of create another society

(01:08:17):
that would either support life in each other or that
would be dominant and want to conquer.

Speaker 4 (01:08:25):
You are so far my most confident guest with the
apocalyptic scenario because so me, I'll let you know the
running zombies.

Speaker 1 (01:08:33):
I'm out here.

Speaker 4 (01:08:34):
That's too much cardio for me. I feel you on
bunkering down. But you know we saw in Dais they
get the piling up each other and coming over the
walls and then Resident Evil. I give myself two weeks
because there's far too many things that's gonna be unpredictable.

Speaker 1 (01:08:51):
You got you know what I mean, You got Nemesis
running after you with with a big gun. It's like,
I don't I don't know what to do with that.

Speaker 4 (01:08:57):
But the biggest, my biggest flaw in any apocalyptic scenario
right now, and I've been saying this for a while,
I'm gonna have to take like a survivalist class or something.

Speaker 1 (01:09:07):
I believe I can make fire.

Speaker 4 (01:09:09):
I just never had a moment that I had to
make fire, So I don't know how confident I am.

Speaker 5 (01:09:13):
With that I do are under the circumstances. You'd be
amazed at what you can do when desperation said, you'll
figure out all right.

Speaker 4 (01:09:24):
So now the last topic thing that we do is
top five. Always love to get the top five. It's
one of the things so because you're such a love
of horror and the horror genre. Now, I give a
caveat to make it easy. It doesn't have to be
in order, and it can be just currently right now.
It doesn't have to be your all time unless you
are ready to set your all time. But I do

(01:09:45):
want to know what is your all time? Oh no, no,
what is your Top five zombie properties?

Speaker 5 (01:09:52):
Oh, Donna Dead, Night of Living Dead thirty days a night,
not thirty days thirty twenty eight days later, Season one

(01:10:14):
of the Walking Dead, solid solid. The last one isn't
coming to me is clearly because I don't want to
say Dada Dead. I enjoy Dada Dead, but not as
much as I'm not big with the funny ones. Um,

(01:10:37):
I'm gonna go with the Donor to Dead reboot James
Zack Snyder one. So that's yeah, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:10:46):
One more.

Speaker 4 (01:10:46):
Top five, real quick, real quick. I feel like this
want to be easy for you. Top five comic books. Now,
it could be a run, it could be an actual book,
but just Top five comic book graphic novels that you
for you.

Speaker 5 (01:10:58):
Alan Moore's Run on Swamp, Thing for Miller's Run on Daredevil,
Jim Starling's run on Warlock, Uh, Neil Gamon slash, Alan
Moore's run on Miracle Man, George Perez's John Burns run
on the Avengers and or John Burns run on the
X Man Clairemont.

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
Those are some solid choices, solid choices, all right.

Speaker 4 (01:11:22):
So before we get you out there, it's got two
shows that was announced that I don't I didn't see
anything additional from it. I just wanted to ask you,
is Atlanta's most wanted or things that make white people
uncomfortable still happening like those?

Speaker 5 (01:11:34):
I don't think so. I think Warner Brothers killed those, yeah,
when they had the Red Wedding of killing. I think
those things got killed in the process.

Speaker 4 (01:11:48):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:11:48):
And how are you I mean, how are you doing?
Uh during right now with the with the writers strike
and everything like that.

Speaker 5 (01:11:55):
Just checking with my people, keeping my comic books going
and you know whatever ideas writing a book book, keeping
that stuff going, keeping my writing chops going.

Speaker 1 (01:12:07):
All right? Man, where can my people find you at?
And where what you and what do you need them
to support you?

Speaker 5 (01:12:12):
On? At the Rodney Barnes on on Twitter and uh
Instagram primarily is where you can communicate with me. The
most of you know. My Book's Blackula Philadelphia, Nita Hall's
Nightmare Blog, Monarch Mandalorian season one and two at Marvel, Lucasfilm.

(01:12:37):
Got another Star Wars property coming on Marvel property, and
a DC property. I can't say what they are, but
a bunch of stuff happening, winning time on HBO, doing
Jack Johnson at HBO, a couple of movies.

Speaker 1 (01:12:53):
Busy listen here, I don't I don't.

Speaker 4 (01:12:55):
I know.

Speaker 1 (01:12:56):
Things are tight lips and everything like that over there
at Marvel, Star Wars and all that. So you know
what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (01:13:01):
But if you can, if you can make a case
for Sir Junda to become in in real life, like
to see Deborah Wilson in live action, that is my
only ass I would love to see her live action
on any one of those properties and everything. So but man,
you know, appreciate your time. Again, Man, I appreciate everything
that you're doing with this culture. You are somebody that

(01:13:24):
we hold at a high regard and we truly appreciate you.
I've been your boy, Duceis. This has been the amazing
legendary Rodney Rodney Barnes and we are out east

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Rodney Barnes talks Afrofuturism, Star Wars, Marvel, Directing & more | S7 E9 | 1 on 1's w/Deuces

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Rodney Barnes talks Afrofuturism, Star Wars, Marvel, Directing & more | S7 E9 | 1 on 1's w/Deuces