January 7, 2026 • 63 mins
SPECIAL PRESENTATION: The Love Boat Podcast with Loretta Swit
80s TV Ladies is thrilled to introduce you to The Love Boat Podcast with this exclusive Feed Drop from The Love Boat Podcast.
Before we set sail, we pause to honor the remarkable Loretta Swit.
Emmy-winning star of MASH, beloved guest on The Love Boat, and an icon of television’s golden age. In what would become her final recorded interview, Loretta joins Fred, Ted, Jill (and Bernie Kopell) for an unforgettable conversation about craft, chemistry, and courage. From her trailblazing portrayal of Major Margaret “Hot Lips” Houlihan to her heartfelt stories about The Love Boat and co-star Bernie Kopell, Loretta reflects on breaking barriers for women in television, finding humanity in every role, and the joy of creating something that lasts.
Warm, witty, and full of love, this episode is both a celebration and a farewell — a reminder that true classics never fade. Listen to more episodes of The Love Boat Podcast and follow the podcast: https://play.megaphone.fm/dlvu8lpmsfctfxvsxfylxq
https://www.loveboatpodcast.com
https://www.instagram.com/loveboatpodcast
See The Flirt Bar concert reading in Atlanta.
Written by Susan Lambert Hatem. Songs by Amy Ray and Michelle Malone.
Directed by Amanda Wansa Morgan.
January 10-11, 2026
Synchronicity Theatre
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, Happy New Year, Happy twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Welcome to eighties TV Ladies twenty twenty six. We have
a very special New Year's gift for you, dear listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
We're taking this week off because Susan's in Atlanta, Georgia,
working on a concert reading of her new musical.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
The Flirt Bar.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
That's right. We have a concert reading of The Flirt
Bar with songs by Amy Ray and Michelle Malone this
coming Saturday and Sunday at Synchronicity Theater in Atlanta. This
is really cool, a very important developmental step for the project.
And we start rehearsals on Monday. And I'm still tired
from the holidays. Did you have a good holiday, Sharon?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Overall? Definitely. Both of my sisters were in town. Both
got to be here for about two weeks, and that's
unusual for my sister Janet, who lives in Houston. She
is usually only able to be here for a few days.
So the fact that she got so much time off
was really great. The downside is that my mom came
(01:02):
down with a little bit of a virus last weekend,
which kept her in bed for a few days, and
doctor says it just some sort of virus, nothing serious
it she just needs some time to recover and she
is slowly getting her energy back, being able to uh
to keep down food, et cetera. It's but it's a process.
(01:23):
It's a process. But she she is on the right
going in the right direction, which makes all the difference.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
That's so great. I'm glad to hear that she's going
in the right direction. I think we all well, not
we all, but I definitely also got a little punched
in the face by some sort of the la holiday cold.
But I had a great time as well, spend it
with the family. All the kids were home and also
so I was partying and working all week getting ready
(01:49):
for this week.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
We are so thrilled to have this opportunity to share
an episode of one of our favorite new podcasts with you.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
And don't worry, Sharon and I will be back with
all new episodes of eighties TV Ladies in two weeks.
But to get to share this special surprise, an exclusive
feed drop episode of the love Boat Podcast Exciting and New.
That's right, there is a love Boat podcast with cast members. Sharon,
I am so excited. The love Boat Podcast is a
(02:20):
TV film and comedy podcast with Fred Grandy, Ted Lange,
and Jill Wheeland. That's right, Gopher, Isaac, you're bartender and
Captain Steubings's daughter, Vicky. I was so in love with her.
I thought she was so cool and I was like,
I want to be Captain Steuben's daughter. This is a
truly amazing podcast and I'm so thrilled we get to
(02:41):
bring our listeners this bonus episode.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Each week, the love Boat Podcast welcomes friends, guest stars,
and fans for a lively and hilarious and very warm conversation.
It's a brand new adventure with the people who made
The Love Boat unforgettable.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
I mean, seriously, Sharon, It's it's been such a I've
so enjoying this podcast.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
Oh me too.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
The love Boat Podcast officially launched November ninth, but the
first episode they dropped was on November eighth, as an
honor to the incredible Loretta Sweat, who passed away May thirtieth,
twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
And this is her last recorded interview, and how fitting
that it is with her dear friends from the Love Boat.
It's really cool.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Loretta Sweat is an Emmy Award winning actress and star
of Mash but she is also a seventies and eighties
TV lady icon and appeared in five episodes of The
Love Boat.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
It was a dream of ours to get to interview
Miss Loretta Switch. She was one of the first people
we tried to get on the show. We tried to
get her for our Cagney and Lacy episodes because she
was the original Cagney, but we could not make the
stars aligned. And I'm so grateful to the love Boat
Podcast for letting us share this one with you.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
So step on board and lean in as Loretta joins Fred, Ted,
Jill and Berniel for an unforgettable conversation.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
If you enjoy this episode as much as we do,
please search for the love Boat Podcast wherever you get
your podcast and subscribe to them. You can also find
them at loveboatpodcast dot com and rest in power, Miss
Loretta Sweat enjoy.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Before we begin, we want to take a moment to
honor the incredible Loretta Sweat and icon, an artist and
a very dear friend to all of us. This conversation
was the final interview she gave, and we are so
grateful to share her voice, and her humor and her
wisdom one more time.
Speaker 5 (04:38):
Loretta was a dynamic personality. She was wonderful and once
she set her sights on where you should be dancing,
you had no choice but to dance. She was like
a big sister. She was like a lovely big sister
and a wonderful, wonderful Veta trend that would pass on
(05:01):
the information to you.
Speaker 6 (05:03):
She was such a joy and had such a love
for the industry that we have all been lucky enough
to work in for so many years, and to have
somebody who had such affection for the craft. And it
didn't matter where you were in your career or what
level you were. She was a generous, kind person and
(05:26):
I so enjoyed our time with her.
Speaker 5 (05:29):
I miss her, I love her, and I think she
was fantastic.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
There is a ship's horn which means you are on
board with the Love Boat podcast hosted by yours truly
Fred Grandie, also known as Gopher Smith. You're Yeoman Purser,
featuring my distinguished colleagues, Ted Lange known as Isaac the Bartender,
and of course Jill Wheeland, the Captain's daughter, Vicky Stubing,
and now to our distinguished guest star.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
Can I introduce my friend.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
You may do that. Let's do that right.
Speaker 5 (06:16):
Now, because we want to talk to her. It is
the lovely Loretta Switt, also known as hot Lips.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
I actually prefer major because I like how ranking everybody
of the work here.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
But it's okay, it's okay, as long as as you
pucker when you call me hot Lips, I accept it.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Well, now you know when you did when you did
our show, you were probably of a higher rank because
you were playing a Russian commissar in the episode it
was called Anushka.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
What a great time, What a great time. Of course,
my love Bernie, he was. We were so good together
and it was a.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Real highlight for me that show and I because I
did I think three three loved boats. I did the pilot.
You did good, Mulligan, Yeah, with Richard Mulligan and Robert
Reid and Pamela Bell. I help you guys get on
the air. Absolutely, that's right, Mulligan.
Speaker 5 (07:16):
You know you help Cagney and Lacy get on them.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Oh I made them. Yeah, you know, they tried.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
When they finally approached me, they had been trying, like
for six or seven years. They even offered the network
Roquel Welsh in my role really.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Believe that I won hope over Roquel felt.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
I believe it. I believe.
Speaker 6 (07:38):
Well you can act, you can act circles around her.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
So there you have it.
Speaker 6 (07:42):
You are spectacular.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
I I really you. She is who she is. You're
gonna hire her for that?
Speaker 4 (07:48):
Do it?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
You know?
Speaker 1 (07:50):
He's very good in whatever happened to Sheila? Whatever the
name that is?
Speaker 4 (07:54):
That? What?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
What?
Speaker 4 (07:55):
How do you tell you?
Speaker 5 (07:56):
The mystery?
Speaker 4 (07:57):
Stephen? Some things?
Speaker 5 (07:59):
Oh no, no.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Movie, the right director and a good script. She's She's
there for you.
Speaker 5 (08:06):
The last of Sheila.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
That's Stephen sound Stephen Sondheim wrote that script.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
Oh is that right? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Stephen Sondheim wrote that script.
Speaker 5 (08:14):
Okay, I did know that. I looked for the songs.
I didn't see any. Listen, uh, Loretta, we have another
guess from your past. He's on here with us.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
He's asked per your instructions.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
My dear.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Yes, I like to think of it as a request. Yeah.
We took it as do this or die?
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Know yourself?
Speaker 5 (08:39):
Bernie Coppel, are you there?
Speaker 4 (08:42):
I'm right here, Hello, my love? How woa, my darling?
Speaker 3 (08:46):
You wrote this sweet note after we did or unders
and and I still have it in my uh my
Treasury Box. But we had such a good time, didn't we.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
I all the episode again last night.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
It works, doesn't it?
Speaker 4 (09:04):
It works?
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Oh my, oh it's timeless. I mean, but Loretta, tell us,
where did you come up with the Russian accent?
Speaker 4 (09:12):
How did you?
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Where did you? I'm Polish?
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Actually there, your powers that be thought that they would
offer it to either me or Natalie.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Wood who's Russian. What they made the right choice with you? Well,
you know, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Natalie would have held a good job too. But I
think that Bernie and I had magic. Yes, I think
that Bernie and I really had chemistry, and we loved
both parts.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
I know.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Bernie, of course, loved doing doc and I really loved
the words, some of the words that they gave me
to say, Like Bernie is proposing, he wants me to
stay with him, honestly, and I said to him, you
love this country very much, don't you? And he says, yes,
very much. And she gets the chance, as a Russian
(10:04):
to say, I too love my country, and I was
very touched by that. I was very touched by the
opportunity to say for her side. And I loved how
human they made that Russian commissarg.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
No and this was like eleven years before the wall
came down, so you know, this is the height of
the Soviet Union.
Speaker 6 (10:28):
And we loved how human you made the character.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
No really really, I mean you you just it.
Speaker 6 (10:34):
Was something beautiful and the chemistry that you and Bernie
had together was so palpable and just leapt off the
screen in such a beautiful way. I mean, it was
truly one of my favorite favorite episodes.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
If they could, if they could have found a way
to bring me back somehow and have this continuing arc
going with Doc.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
But how do you do? She's gonna commute.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
So it really was so special.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Let me ask him, Let me ask something about the show,
because Bernie, you did two stunts in that show. You remember, Yes,
you fell down backwards when you were having vodka in
the dining room and you fell into that laundry hamper.
Now that was you, right, They didn't w how about that.
Speaker 7 (11:24):
That was not a stunt person, That was mer Bernie.
Speaker 5 (11:29):
Did you hit your head? And that's why you're like
you are there?
Speaker 6 (11:35):
You he got it?
Speaker 3 (11:37):
How you tell us.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
My age?
Speaker 3 (11:45):
I've been sort of following your other.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Career when you weren't sailing on the boat and I
happened to see your columb Was it a Columba or
a monk?
Speaker 3 (11:58):
The one that I write about it was it was monk.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
You were just so It's so delightful to watch people
who have established strongly a character in a series see them,
you know, somewhere else, a different environment, costume, accent maybe,
and see them spread their wings and you know, throw
(12:23):
you off your chair because they're like, wow, powerful. Like
Fred Grandy in the film that we we didn't.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Yeah, play the flute. Yeah, he is like the best
thing in in it. No, no, no, no, no, listen.
Loretta and I were in Home. Well it was called
play the Flute. Loretta and I were in a movie together,
but we were never together in a movie. We had
work together.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
So I get to watch him, get to watch the performance.
Go wow, he's so good. But best thing in the
film you and I was second best?
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Well I would, I would, I would reverse that because
you had you had a smaller part.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Yeah, well second best. We were on equal footing there.
You didn't have to drive to Kentucky to do it, though,
did you the heavens? No, well I did. I had
to drive in. It was right after Hurricane uh what
was her name? Hurricane Irma.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
And I was driving up from North Carolina and I
was gonna fly, but I couldn't because of the hurricane.
So I had to drive all the way to Kentucky
to do that. So you're lucky you didn't have to
go anywhere. This is a long drive.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
Did they give you mileage?
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Fred? Yeah, they gave me mileage. What do you think
this was an under the table job or something? Come on,
Loretta and I are professionals. We were We had union contracts,
all right, So listen, I want I want to know
a little bit because you know, you guys had a
rather poignant love scene. Yes, the process shot on the
(13:52):
on on the deck. Now what kind of preparation did
you have to do for that? Well?
Speaker 1 (13:57):
I don't know, Bernie, and I care to discuss that
with you. I mean, I'll let me consult Bernie.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
What do you say, yes, dear, ask me anything.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Well, what do you think do you think we should
share our preparation, you know, behind the scenes and working
up to this wonderful love scene that we did.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Oh that won't it be a hot book? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Well, come on, give us a little taste of it,
will we're in.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
The makeup room practicing.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
I'm not sure those words are correctivous a little taste
of what what you.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
At.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
We're not into Bernie and I are not into sharing,
if you don't mind. That was a very private, all
right preparation.
Speaker 7 (14:42):
Yes, dear, I gotta tell you this. Before, before I
met you, I felt I thought this is what acting is.
And then I met you and I said, now I
know what acting is because you are so beyond magnificence.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
So when I was I need a drink.
Speaker 6 (15:03):
Okay, when was the first time that you guys met?
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Was it on the I want to.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Hold the phone for a second. I'm busy of being overwhelmed.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Okay, But you have to also appreciate the source from
which this comes.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
This is a man who knows the work. That's the
highest compliment you pay a colleague. They know where the
work is because it is work, and they know how,
they know the beats, and so to work with them,
you just get better, you grow.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
So it's always Mulligan.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
For example, I've been gifted. I have worked with these
wonderful people. So Bernie is one of those people. So
when Bernie gives you a compliment, it's beyond being thrilled
with a compliment, is beyond getting a standing ovation from
strangers who enjoyed your performance. But on one you're looking
(16:01):
into this man's eyes and you're saying words that are
coming from a different place, and he's answering those words with.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
His and and so it's it's a very special sharing
and moments that your treasure and Bernie will always be
that love of my life. And from that from that episode,
to see.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
You put that in writing.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Yeah, why recorded it for Christ's sake?
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Isn't that? I think recorded well as his cast mates.
We thank you for training him.
Speaker 6 (16:39):
Yes, And a lot of people don't know that when
we were first doing Love Boat at twentieth Century Fox,
you guys were just a few sound stages away.
Speaker 5 (16:48):
Yeah, they were next door, weren't they next door to us?
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Yeah? You were right around the corner, right right.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
But but I don't uh, I don't remember your ever
coming over.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
To visit, did you not? Like I did?
Speaker 1 (17:01):
I did that doesn't like you?
Speaker 3 (17:05):
You were a little snippet. That's right.
Speaker 6 (17:07):
Nobody cared that I was there. But I loved it.
I loved it.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Yeah, we always got the impression that Mash was a
very close set, and they did not appreciate having visitors,
even if you know we were fellow players.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Although Gary Berghoff, I don't know who gave you that impression.
It was probably a Fox employee. It wasn't anybody on
the show. Because we loved you know, most of us
were stage trained. We loved an audience, and uh fortunately
our crew loved the show.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
They loved being there, and they were a great audience
for us.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Dominic Palmer, who was our cameraman for many seasons, he
would sometimes ruin the shot because he was laughing and
he was moving pooping the camera. I said, dumb, come on.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
You know we're not going to shoot it again. Stop laughing.
But I don't think we ever turned away guests. I mean,
we shouldn't have mobs, but anybody who called and said
can I come, I'm sure it was not a problem.
Speaker 6 (18:20):
I would sneak over on my lunch hour.
Speaker 5 (18:23):
You guys were like a family.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Yeah, like Harry Morgan. When Mac was leaving, my heart
was broken.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
I adored a man, McLean Stevenson.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
We're talking about McClain, and when he told me he
was leaving, I was like, how can you do that
to me? I was like, very personal, and he said, Lorette,
I know I'll never be in anything that's good again.
I said, so, you know, really still what he said.
But I must go out there and try on my own.
Number one, to be on my own, I said, Mac,
(18:56):
you just don't see the forest here. You are number one.
Mac out of the Gate got a golden globe. But
the the you know, opening season, he was he was
really the head in that show until he left. He
was really the one controlling the character, was making us
(19:18):
laugh and cry.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
And but he must have not believed it himself, Loretta,
I mean, oh, he left.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Just yeah, he really wanted to be number one. What
he didn't realize, Bless his heart. Max's gift was reacting,
not acting. Reacting and reacting to those bizarre characters that
we were was what he was so funny, reacting to us.
He needed that because it fed him and that was
(19:45):
his That was his gift. So when they put him
in things that did not reflect that, he wasn't making it.
But Nash was a perfect, perfect thing for him. But
he he just didn't see it.
Speaker 5 (20:01):
Yeah, he didn't recognize it. And that's sometimes the problem
with actors. They don't realize what they're in at that time.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
But reacting is just as important as acting. As a
matter of fact, that's really what acting is. I learned
all of mine from Bernie Coppel because you.
Speaker 7 (20:19):
Know, you never paid me for it, and I never
will when we go back with somebody else. In that
same episode, the scenes between Gavin and Jill were absolutely
had hardbrending.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Uh huh, and Jill was all a nine years old.
I mean, this is you want to you want to
see perfect acting, you watch a kid. And Jill was, no, no,
that's some vulgar Jill, I know.
Speaker 6 (20:52):
It is vulgar. And I still am are still nine no, no,
at almost you know several decades.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
How lucky for you to be surrounded by people who
appreciated your young genius.
Speaker 6 (21:08):
You know, well, how lucky for me to be surrounded
by genius because well, when when I was a little kid, uh,
and I I.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
I was born to do what I do. I know that, yeah,
I this is this is who I am what I do.
So when I was a.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Little kid, I was in dance class, for example, and
I'm very young. I don't know how old I was.
Believe it or not younger than nine. And they stood
us up one day, one at a time. Do a
little something. Now, this little snippet.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
I a child, I mean really a big sang manyana.
Remember manyana manyana manya. They're gonna enough for me. Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
So with the Spanish accent and everything, little hips going
and everything, this little girl's manyana. This little kid is
doing this and people from the class are going crazy,
laughing and enjoying it.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
My mother is humiliated. He doesn't know where to hide.
And on the way home, oh my god, she punished me.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
How could you do that? She's squeezing my hand. Don't
you ever do that? So she crushed what was really
the joy of performing at that age doing, you know,
having fun. And it took me a while to get
back on that. The very next week that the instructor
wanted me to do it again, and I couldn't. I
(22:35):
could do a version of it, but they saw that
my mother had stopped it.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
So when I say, how lucky you were to be.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Recognized at that age that you had this gift.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
And it is a gift. Come on, let's face it.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
No matter how long and hard you study, you begin
with the germ of a gift.
Speaker 5 (22:58):
It is.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
It's what you've essentially told us is that you did
not grow up in a show business family. Ohy, they they,
Oh don't you dare you're gonna be a block?
Speaker 5 (23:07):
No?
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Well no, but I asked that because none of us did. No,
and and so I mean that's something that we all share.
I was I was actively told I had no talent,
so that I should No, I'm serious, Lorette. I was
told that by my members of my immediate family, actively
told yeah, no, no. But but I think, now tell
me if I'm wrong. But I think sometimes that's all
(23:30):
the motivation you need to say. Oh yeah, I'm going
to show you motivating.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
This James Drury rather rather handsome guy, and I loved him.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Oh crush Bill, Oh.
Speaker 7 (23:42):
Lass mates at NYU. So I got drafted into the
Navy and I enjoyed that, had a lot of fun.
They made me a librarian. Jim says, Burnt, come on
out to California. I got an agent for you, and
I'm saying, an asient that's like a magic carpet thing.
So I go to see his agent and the first
thing that happens is he takes a look at my
(24:03):
bio and he says, then he looks at me, gives
me a real hard look, and he says, you're not
handsome enough to be a leading man. You're not ugly
enough to be a heavy. And I was dismissed, and
I said right away, I better do something else.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
So I became a character.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Get a backup plan.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
Yeah, that was my backup plan.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Well, ted was told that he was supposed to be
an auto mechanic, right, yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
And what school?
Speaker 5 (24:29):
Yeah, high school, nineteen sixties. They said they wouldn't give
me drama classes. I had to go in and bake
for drama classes. They wouldn't give it to me because
they wanted me to take auto shop and that wasn't
what I Luckily, I got locked into a theater by
(24:51):
accident and watched a rehearsal and that was it. I
was done.
Speaker 6 (24:55):
And Teddy Bear, that was no accident that you got
locked in. And everything happens for a reason. So that
was for you.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
But that dance, that dance class that you had, Loretta,
was that was that when you finally said this is
what I'm gonna do, this is gonna be my life.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
No, that was a long time before I when when
well as a kid lights up lights out in the house,
I would go under the covers with a lamp and
read a book, well not too loud, but you know.
And I would do all the characters, men, women, children,
(25:32):
at whatever. And when I got to my first acting class,
I realized I had been rehearsing all my life. There
you go, you know, But but no, it's it's all
I ever.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
Wanted to do.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
And my mom, who was so against my career, loved film.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
It was our big connection.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
As we got both got older and more mature. But
my mom would make me by the hand and we
would go to a double feature. It's not a happy marriage, okay.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
And so that was escape escapism for her and probably
every other housewife in the thirties and forties.
Speaker 5 (26:13):
And what city did you grow up in?
Speaker 3 (26:16):
What?
Speaker 4 (26:16):
What?
Speaker 3 (26:16):
What? New Jersey?
Speaker 5 (26:18):
New Jersey?
Speaker 4 (26:19):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (26:19):
So would go to the Central of the Montauk or
the Palace. So I name all those theaters because would
go in see a double feature. That's how long ago
it was. With everything the cartoon, the news reel, the
coming attractions.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Come out, Chinese food and with rice pudding, no raisins,
please go, would go to another theater for another two features.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
We would see four movies a day, and I mean
we wouldn't just sit there. I mean we were into
those movies. And so for her to not realize how bonding,
the bonding that was going on.
Speaker 6 (26:59):
But any way, do you think Loretta, that maybe it
was because I know for my mom she did not
want me to be in this business at all, and
she wouldn't go with me to interview. She'd say, I'll
drive you, but I'm not going in. And this was
in San Francisco.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
We did you a favor that way that would have
your approval right right, right.
Speaker 6 (27:19):
But my question is she was afraid of the industry,
and so that's why she didn't. I wonder do you
think that might have been part of that for your mom,
her reticence to allow you.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Uh, it's very complex. Some of it was jealousy.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
That should have been me, not my child, sure, uh,
which I kind of found out a little bit from
my dad. But but overall, I think, yes, it's the
fear that you're striking out on your own in the
jungle of New York City. What's gonna happen? The prostitution
and they're gonna rape or the guy kill that. Some
(28:01):
of that, not a lot. I think more of it
was my mom, not my God so much. But my
mom wanted me to get married, live across the street
or down a block, and have babies.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
This was her plan.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
I finally got a mouthpiece to say, Mom, I'd die
for you, I will not live for you. That is
my future. This this is you know. But at that
age there's so much you say to your parents without
being rude.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
You know you don't.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
And I was a very good Catholic girl. I didn't
talk back. I always listened. My brother too, We were
good kids. They sent my brother after.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Me and he would meet me in New York and
try to talk me into coming home. Oh God, you're
doing the thing and the stuff. And the first time
he saw me on stage, he came back and he
put his arms around me and he said, I understand.
(29:08):
See there's always that, There's always that moment, Burt, Bernie.
There was not a lot of support for you getting
into this business, was there.
Speaker 5 (29:15):
Well.
Speaker 7 (29:15):
My father was in a jewelry business, and he led
me to believe it's the only way I could ever
make a living was to be a jeweler.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
As as he was, and I.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
Said, I don't really like that, And I really liked that.
Speaker 7 (29:29):
I got some encouragement from of the teachers at at
at the n y U n YU exactly. I got
into the Verse Choir and the Old City Radio Workshop,
which was great, great fun, and then I got into
n YU.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Now you're doing radio again. All right, here we go.
My would encourage me behind my mother's You see, my
mom was really it was twos a piece of work.
She wash, that's interesting, Not really, you know, but I
mean that makes us all survivors. And to some degree,
(30:11):
I think having that barrier makes you try a little
harder because you want to prove them wrong, don't you.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
No, I don't think that was in my case, but
I think but what it was unconsciously it didn't make
me stronger because it was more difficult to do what
I wanted to do. I was not looking to prove
them wrong or prove myself right. I was looking to
get on stage and will even my auditions people would say, yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
I'm never nervous. Why it's the only opportunity you have
to get on stage in a Broadway house and sing
my heart out and have them pay attention.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
But it was more about that than getting the job.
It was getting there and doing it.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
And to this day that serves me well, it's not nerves,
it's the excitement of getting out there. When I told Cheetah,
she said, oh my god. She says, I'm supposed to
be one of the best, and I'm I'm a pack
of nerves before I go out. Some people vomit faked.
I mean, they're like, well, I don't. I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
I understand it, but I'm not acquainted with it. I
can't wait, you know, to so I whatever glitch or
I don't know what happened with me getting born. I
wanted my own day. I wanted my own time, my
own space. And when I struck out, I had zero zip.
(31:40):
I mean, I don't know what possessed me to think.
I never said I was going to try to be
an actor. I said I was going to be an actor.
You didn't even dare tell people what you're what you wanted. Well,
one day I had the courage.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
I built up the courage.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Went to Sister albeings like education and Sister Albie, and
I said, you know, I don't talk about this easily,
but in my heart. I really want to be an actor.
I want to be you know. And she said, I
have a niece in the business. Let me talk to
her about it and see if I can get you
(32:18):
some advice.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
Wow, all right.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
For the next couple of weeks she avoided me. I
mean I was trying to get you know that she
would and I'm very sensitive to that. She was like
avoiding me, and I thought, all right, it's bad news.
And so I finally cornered her, and she what an
actress she was. Oh, yes, I've been looking for you, right.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
She said.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
I spoke to my niece and she said the field
is overcrowded, so you'd better forget it.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
Oh god, that was that was her advice.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
My my feeling is maybe she did some cursory shopping,
but I don't think she spoke to her knees.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
I just don't didn't believe it.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
I thought that was came from Herna Schuma, you know,
just forget it.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
Let me let me go back to the show that
you and Bernie did together, because I wanted. You know,
You've obviously worked with a lot of leading men, different people,
and some have been better than others. When do you know,
and this is a question for both of you that
it's really clicking.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Immediately, I was going to say the same thing, Yeah,
it's either there or didn't and then you have to
work hard to put it there.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
But no, we because it looked it looked effort, you
know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
We just connected. He connected also through the work. You know,
we we use Bernie uses himself the way I use myself,
and so Bernie and Loretta connected through these characters that
they were. We did the work, You do the work.
Everything takes over, am I right?
Speaker 3 (34:02):
Bernie?
Speaker 4 (34:03):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (34:04):
You know it's flying without a net. You don't need you,
You've you've got it.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
You just do it.
Speaker 5 (34:11):
That's trust too, if you're flying without a net.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
Loretta.
Speaker 7 (34:16):
Every good thing that had to happen did happen between us. Yes,
you're shoving me into the laundry cars.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
That worked perfectly. I mean, you know I wanted to
do that for Bernie for two sears. You got to
do it.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Really had everything, you know, you laughed with us and
you but it was pointed to it was touching and oh, people.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Wanted to talk about the episode for a long time
with you know, they would always bring it up, and
they would want to talk about what happened, because for Doc,
it was a lovely revelation.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
About his character, about who he was, which is what's
wonderful when you have good people doing a series. They
they used that experience to explore how much they can
bring out for everything. So who who thought Doc was
going to fall in love that way?
Speaker 3 (35:13):
Who who you know.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
That he was going to actually get to the point
where he says, there's stay here, don't go home, married me?
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Or you know he's been married four times?
Speaker 7 (35:22):
Because when you got that that severe uniform off, you
became a very attractive lady.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
Your hair was done nice.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
Night, oh yes, and that beautiful white dress.
Speaker 8 (35:34):
You take me slinky boogie you. I said, what's boogie?
What is boogie? You go and boogie and slinky too.
Speaker 6 (35:44):
That's right, Fred.
Speaker 7 (35:46):
I was hoping that you'd come back again, yes to
two times more because you were so and you are
so lovely and I got I got really pissed at
you for taking me, putting me into bed, yelling at you.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
Oh my god.
Speaker 6 (36:05):
I loved that scene so much.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
But Bernie, that that was really We've done a season
and on about eight shows that was really your first
serious love show, wasn't it?
Speaker 4 (36:15):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Yeah, so it's a great place to start.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
It was the best episode I have.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
It was it was more than a serious It was
for Doc, serious for Doc, but it was an element
in his character we hadn't seen yet, and it was
so warm and wonderful. It was such for the fans,
it is wonderful experience to see one of their favorite
(36:42):
characters blossom in a direction that did you know? It's
a surprise and it's a wonderful thing. And I know
I had it. I had the opportunity on mash many
times to reveal her the different elements that composed this major,
this iron major, and I had a fight for it.
Speaker 5 (37:03):
That doesn't tell us, tell us how did you audition?
Did you have to audition?
Speaker 3 (37:07):
Or what was the deal? And there was no script.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Larry Gilbart bless his heart, he works under pressure, like
the day before he gets out of script. You know,
no script, And it was a while before even shot
the pilot, but they had an idea. I was very lucky.
From the time I arrived in Holly Holly Would, I
(37:32):
was working almost almost completely for CBS. I kept doing
the CBS and they owned the show at that point.
They owned the networks they did. They had gun Smoke,
they had Mannus, they had Hawaii five.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
Oh, they had big hits.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
They were writing high and they My first job was
on Gun Smoke, a brilliant English director with an added
have like we want to have lunch. And he introduced
me to Bill Watson. I was going to have a
love scene. He said, I cannot bear the American idea
that you can go on the set, be introduced and
(38:11):
get into a love scene. That's absurd. He said, I
wanted you to to get to know each other a
little bit before you've even read the script. And he
was like a great director. And so I had the
Gun Smoke and then before I was finished, I had
a call from Paramount Millie Gussie.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
Everybody Billy Gussie auditioned me for love Boat and turned
me down. That's how I know MILLI tell that she
was in retrospect. I see she was right. She called
me in to read for.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
A Mannix episode and Michael o'hurleahy anybody else?
Speaker 4 (38:53):
Yes? Yes?
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Was he like absolutely the best. I loved this man.
Oh a lovely director. He gives you.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
He would give me images sometimes to work with. I
shot Mannix, but I didn't know the gun was empty.
But if I pulled the trigger subconsciously, and subconsciously, I
committed a murder. And she was a good person. And
(39:23):
I was like trying to find the good in whatever
I was playing, the humanity. And so after I killed
Mannix and he took the gun away from me, the
look of disappointment and horror in a way and walked
away from me. And I was leaning against the mantle
(39:43):
of a fireplace and Michael comes over. He said, Now,
what I want you to do is go down a staircase,
go all the way down. Just keep going down further
and further and further and further and further until you
lose sight, and we lose sight. You disappear, not physically
(40:05):
but your eyes. You're going to go down and you're
going to disappear because you don't know how to cope
with the fact that.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
You just killed somebody. And I don't God, you know, wow.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
And it was all in the eye, and that's what
he wanted to see in my eyes. And as it happened,
I started to not cried, but there was a tear
that came down down the nose. Okay, how dramatic. I mean,
you can't find a cat? And they ended that was
the end card. They'd never done that, they always end
(40:39):
on like but it was so right emotional.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
Yes, speaking of eyes. You know, the episode that you
and Bernie did together and Jill did was directed by
a guy named Roger d'shoney who did a lot of
our shows. But what he kind of pioneered, and I
think it may have started on your show because the
scenes with Javin, Gavin and Jill were so strong. The
scenes with you and Bernie were so strong that Roger
pushed in in close ups, closer than he'd ever done
(41:07):
with anybody on the show anyway. You remember this, Bernie, Oh,
I mean it was so time well, yes, and Jill
and Gavin, I mean their faces were like landscapes. Yes,
they absolutely filled the screen. And he did it with
Jill and Gavin when they had their moment, and he
did it with you and Bernie when you guys had
your scenes.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
And but that was the gift television could give us.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
You know, going like that too, and you go inside
when you get that close.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Well, Bernie and I in that final scene when we're
saying goodbye. Where we were really there was tight shots
of our heads. I remember that, and Roger really pioneered that.
He was the first guy to really come in that close.
Speaker 7 (41:51):
I saw the episode again last night, and I dreamt
about it all my long.
Speaker 4 (41:57):
Yeah, I'm still dreaming about it right now.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Do you owe me money? I still have that lovely
note that you sent me.
Speaker 6 (42:08):
Will you share what the note says? Or is it
too personal?
Speaker 4 (42:11):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (42:11):
It is personal. I'm happy to share it, but okay,
and now it was his lovely, humorous, left handed way
to say it was stunning.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
But he ended with to do it again with you
would not be a bad thing. Oh, it's too bad.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
The show lasted longer than the Soviet Union, so they
could have brought you back, you know, after you'd been decommissioned,
you know, and you could have worn the white dress again.
Speaker 4 (42:41):
Yeah, but then then you'd have to be Then you'd
have to deal with Putin.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
Well, I I really kind of enjoyed her in the
beginning that my hair pulled back and everything.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Lauren.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Uh, she were walking by the pool and the flowers
or you know, candles, and I'm looking looking at this
absurdity right in her in her eyes and I said
to her, candles in the pool, that's your idea, right, Yes,
(43:18):
it was.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
So much fun. What is this garbage? You know?
Speaker 6 (43:21):
You know, I have to say that it was such
a striking moment when you go from this very austere
commandant to this soft.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
Boogie boogie, slinky good woman and boogie.
Speaker 6 (43:39):
I mean it was it was just this.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Reacting again to Bernie. You can't do that. You can
in your head plan that this is what's going to
be happening, but if you don't have a Bernie to
be happening with, it's not going to be as you know.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
It's that simple.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
I know because for example, I did Same Time Next
Year with several different partners. I did Love Letters with
several different partners, and you know, when you have it,
you know what you've got.
Speaker 4 (44:14):
You know.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Ted Bessel was an amazing George in the Same Time
Next Year. Amazing Gene Sachs used to look at me
and rehearsal. I had say he was born to play
this character. He was George.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
And one night early.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
On we came off the stage and looked at each
other as though we had been on another planet. I
can't describe it any other way, which is like.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
Whoof, whoof woof.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
We never discussed it, but we just had this thing,
this explosion of reality in the fiction anyway. But I
had that every moment with Bernie, and of course when
you have it in front of the camera is really
exciting because you're clicking in, you know.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
But I got to tell you my favorite line in
that episode actually was not with Bernie. It's when you
come to Julie McCoy's door and you say, I want
to be slinky. Remember that, because now it's going to
go boogie. Yeah, I already asked what is boogie? Yeah,
I have to find out what is slinky? But then
(45:27):
after that we saw you in the white dress and
it was game over for everybody. Yeah. I also wore
a kind of nifty black number. But it was fun
too for many reasons getting her out of that tight
officer outfit, but also from the actor point of view,
(45:47):
getting out of the fatigues. That was always great.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Fun for me to have that we who wore the green.
After a while, everything is green.
Speaker 3 (45:59):
I would watch her.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
My hair looked green, everything was fatigue green. So so
to break out in this though she comes in tough,
but then melts into this glamour girl doing boogie yeah clinky,
you know it was yeah yeah, And.
Speaker 6 (46:19):
The white dress was the perfect choice for it because
she came in.
Speaker 3 (46:23):
Is this very as you say, she became a virginal.
Speaker 6 (46:26):
Though, right, but and yes, this this this angelical. It's
almost like you had a halo over you and just
it was. I still I mean to this day, I
can't remember what I had for breakfast yesterday, but I
remember you in that dress, and I remember how I
felt when I saw you come on camera and the
softness and it was just it's just a beautiful thing
(46:47):
to watch.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
That's lovely. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
A part of what I remember working on, even subconsciously,
when I attacked any role, always to find that core
of goodness, because like Anne Frank, I do believe in
the goodness of people, that everywhere, all of us we have,
(47:11):
humanity has a goodness that I will believe always, no
matter what if they're if they're crucifying me, I will
hang on to that thought the way this little child did.
She's gonna die any second, and she believes it, and
so I think it's imperative you have that going into
(47:32):
a role going into believing that core is there. So
I played a psychotic killer at one point and tried
to find not to justify the killingness she killed people,
but to find that core in her that made her
do that what sickness? What you know, So that by
(47:53):
the end when she was captured and they were taking
a wig off hers, you're just trying to kill somebody
and she it was so you felt sorry for her.
You felt sorry that she had that disease or whatever.
And that's what I kind of look at what. I
went on tour with Bill Holden for Soob the film
(48:18):
that we did, and okay, Bill, one day wo tour,
it was a press tour. We were sitting at a
table Mulligan and Bill Holden and myself and Bill, who
never fancied himself by the way an actor, he was,
you know, he doing a job, but he was a
fabulous natural actor. But when he started talking about what
(48:42):
he was doing, he may not realize it, but he
knew the work. And he said, I always start out
finding out what was good about the character, because if
you look at my resume, I play Heels, all the
guys that I play look at them, and you start
to realize he's absolutely right, Son said Boulevard.
Speaker 3 (49:04):
The guy's a heel, he's a tar.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
But he when he winds up, you see the goodness
in him. He falls in love with the innocent girl.
He wants to leave this woman who's being deceived. You
know she's but by the studio. But you know, and
so and and he he, he went through all of
all of his why why he was an absolute heel.
(49:28):
He was a coward, he was a pretended and he
ends up trying to shoot the mad guy who's caused
this chaos, you know, you he says and dies. And
he was talking about that, and I thought, God, Mulligan
and I were looking at you like somebody taking this
(49:50):
down on tape or something. Well, and he was talking
about growing from that core and and showing nobody is
a total heel. This is who he really was, that that,
you know. And so I became aware of that in
my work as well, looking for uh.
Speaker 3 (50:09):
You had to you had to look for the good
in Hula Han when I began, because they were writing
her like she was was Eileen Brennan, who adored but
she played a character in Benjamin for example.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
It's not what Hula Han was, nor was Benjamin. What
we did in the series, you know.
Speaker 3 (50:32):
So, but but I mean, obviously, and I think we
probably went through the same thing you did, although perhaps
quite as deeply. But you know, if you're if you're
good in your character when you start out, eventually you
can educate the writers to write for the character you
want to play. And I think all of us got
(50:53):
to that that point. Maybe it took us a little
longer than it took you, because I don't think we
were actor focused as you were. But the fact of
the matter is, if you stay on a show for
a long time and it's a success, eventually, if you're
good enough the act, you will convince and teach the
writers to write the way you want to play the part.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
Wasn't the writers so much the problem.
Speaker 3 (51:18):
It was the producers, not Gelbart, but it was they.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
They came off of Hogan's heroes at John Witmain movies,
and you know, and this this was not what we
saw in what we were doing. We were playing real
people at the front in Korea, met especially the women,
the women in Korea that I commanded volunteered to be there,
(51:48):
the coldest country on the planet, at the hottest country
on the planet. The things that killed us in Korea
was number one frostbite, number two bite.
Speaker 3 (52:00):
And then the war.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
Do these women volunteered? They were not drafted. I'm not
putting the knock on the guys who were drafted. All
I'm saying is these women just did it, and you
you can't. I can't play a part like Shultzi. You
know in in Hogan's I can't. I I took her
(52:24):
very seriously, and when I began, I said to Gelbart,
you have to know in advance. My aim will be
the bet to be the best goddamn head nurse in Korea.
That will be my goal. Yes, they're only concerned is
it going to be funny as it? Trust me, I'll
be funny. If I'm dying, I can be funny. Just
give me the opportunity to.
Speaker 3 (52:47):
Are you hearing this? Guys? They had problems with their
producers too. What a shock, What a shock. I'm stunned
to hear this. What you didn't the producers didn't understand.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
I'm stunned that Alan Alders said to me, you've got
a tough hoe here because you and uh and Larry
Larry Linnville are so funny and great together. They're they're
gonna have the writers now he's talking about they don't
want to.
Speaker 3 (53:17):
Let go of those laughs.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
They're company here there, you guys are and so they're
not gonna be easy to convince. And I would come
back from Pa Torars people, fans, what are you doing
with that character? Where are this mark? They recognized before
the writers that this is not a possible for Margaret.
(53:39):
He's married, there's no future. He's an imbecile. Why is
she going with this joke of the army that everybody's
putting him down? It he's not a good surgeon, Ah,
very important. She admired it. She may have been angry
with the surgeons. She admired what they were doing. Frank
was losing patience. I mean he was being criticized for
(54:01):
his lack of expertise.
Speaker 3 (54:03):
What is she doing with this guy? Okay?
Speaker 1 (54:06):
Number one, you have her loneliness. Ah, so, but then
you don't write these spectacular love scenes and you have
to see through why she's there?
Speaker 3 (54:18):
Oh, Rank, you know what?
Speaker 1 (54:20):
Which you have to see the frustration and the end
of Towards the end of the second or third season,
well it was seventy six probably. I was in New
York doing a play and the boys called me and said,
(54:42):
let's have a conference. We're on hiatus. We want to
hear what your thoughts are for the next season for Margaret.
And I took them through what I Yeah.
Speaker 3 (54:53):
I did.
Speaker 1 (54:53):
This was major, breakthrough, major, and I, well, here here's
what I think. Number one, send her to Tokyo on
R and R. Let her meet a guy who outranks Frank.
Don't make him a doctor, make him a lieutenant colonel
and give him I mean, make him a little tall,
dark and handsome. Let's see something that she would go
(55:14):
for and get engaged. Can you imagine Lynnville when I
come back to the four seven seventh with a ring
and and we know, I said, he'll tear off the
doors of the tent. And that's exactly what he did,
by the way, because as a joke we were talking
about and and they were they were loving it.
Speaker 3 (55:35):
They thought it was a good idea.
Speaker 1 (55:37):
Now, Gene Reynolds says to me, well, sweetness, her sweetness,
He said, what what happens now? What happens next? I said,
she gets married? No, oh, gee, that's so permanent, I said, Gene,
you're divorced.
Speaker 3 (55:53):
How are you gonna give you what.
Speaker 1 (55:57):
Is permanent of you? I said, she can just him
being disloyal. And then she's back in town realizing she
doesn't need these goons to complete her life. She is
so she's blossoming through these these this pain and hardship.
She also through this, Alan writes a script.
Speaker 3 (56:19):
She has a.
Speaker 1 (56:20):
Meeting of the Bodies and the Mind under Fire with
Alan aldas Karen, and that layers their relationship in a
very bountiful way.
Speaker 6 (56:31):
I love that episode so much.
Speaker 5 (56:33):
I remember that episode. I love it very vividly.
Speaker 3 (56:37):
Yes, a really good friendship and and and it's still
gonna be funny.
Speaker 1 (56:41):
If we we broke the rules, we can still be
funny and do serious stuff. We can have you laughing,
but we'll have you crying and laughing at yourselves. And
so we you know, I think that was the greatness
if if you will, the mash and the writers they
had us run the amates. You know, wasn't just the
one thing. Also, my character broke a barrier in terms
(57:08):
of growth. Most of the characters on television in like
in my category, let's say, stayed the same for as.
Speaker 3 (57:16):
Long as they're on.
Speaker 1 (57:17):
They never grew, They never changed. That makes it unreal.
We change every five minutes. When I leave, I'm going
to be changed by the time I get Oh, we change,
we grow, and we have to allow the character that
we're doing to do that or we're going to lose
our audience.
Speaker 6 (57:38):
I wanted to take a moment, and you just absolutely
illustrated what I was going to say, was that coming
from Hogan's Heroes writing or from John Wayne films, the
way they wrote women then, and what you did with
your character the major was I think so groundbreaking because
it was one of the very first characters that was
(58:01):
not just t and A. It was not just a
pretty face. It was so much more, and it was
so rich and so interesting and so conflicted and yet
so wonderful to watch. You know, you hated her arrogance,
but god, you just loved her conviction and all of
those things made you so interesting to watch.
Speaker 3 (58:24):
On our show, it was a different experience, and I
think that I will pull my colleagues on this, but
I don't think we got to even get close to
that kind of experience until we started to write episodes ourselves.
I mean, Bernie and I wrote an episode for Ted
the first season, I wrote one for Bernie. It was
an effort at survival because we were probably programmed to
(58:46):
stay exactly the same, which is what you were talking
about with women. Well, we were comic foils for the
most part, Ted, Bernie and me, and unless we figured
out a way to grow, that wasn't going to happen.
Speaker 5 (59:00):
Once they found the joke, they were going to hit
that joke every week every time that they did not
pay attention to the evolution. But thank goodness, the show
ran for a long time and it had to evolve.
Speaker 4 (59:16):
Thirteen years.
Speaker 3 (59:18):
We outlasted them, Loretta, We survived.
Speaker 1 (59:22):
Your episodes were peppered enough with really good people.
Speaker 3 (59:27):
Yes, well you make us look good. I mean, it's
when we get somebody like you on the show. It
obviously it upgrades our status because.
Speaker 1 (59:36):
We know what it does is bring out the best
in all of us. We need each other to be
as good as we can be. You know, you know
we're all saying our feeling at least the same thing.
We we need each other. That they call mash this
great family. But yet a group of actors together who
(59:59):
are are doing that kind of work, they are a family.
They are a creative, wonderful, juicy family. But I think
loving what we do is crucial.
Speaker 4 (01:00:12):
It's the most absolutely absolutely, it's so much fun. It
feels good.
Speaker 5 (01:00:18):
Yes, and we're so happy you got to share our
family because we did become a family much like your
cast and mash. So the fact that you came over
to where we'd like to play and you played with
us is absolutely one.
Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
And you're playing with us now. And come on, we
can't thank you enough for doing this show. You know,
we're trying to get this off.
Speaker 1 (01:00:43):
The ground from the time my friend called me.
Speaker 3 (01:00:47):
And you know, when you said we want to have Bernie,
we took a vote and he still won. But you know, yeah,
I've got I'm gonna usually take it. Yeah. But that
episode that you guys did is one of the classics.
Speaker 5 (01:01:08):
It is a classic. It is a classic.
Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
It is a classic.
Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
You guys compose a classic. What is the definition of
a classic? It lasts forever.
Speaker 9 (01:01:45):
Thanks for listening to the love Boat Podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:01:47):
Exciting and.
Speaker 9 (01:01:50):
If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend,
leave us a rating and review, and subscribe wherever you
get your podcasts. Follow along between episodes at loveboatpodcast dot com.
Or on Instagram at loveboot Podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
Hey it's Susan again. If you love this tribute to
Loretta Swit and want more nostalgia, behind the scenes stories,
deep dives, and all that joyful love into TV that
shape generations, follow the love Boat Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
or your favorite listening app. Thank you guys for listening,
(01:02:32):
and long live the ladies who shaped the eighties.
Speaker 10 (01:02:37):
I love my bamboo sheets, and that's exactly what Cozy
Earth is all about. They've been on Oprah's Favorite Things
list four years. We're talking about butterysoft bamboo sheets plus
amazing pajamas. Best Jet Eighties TV Ladies can offer you
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(01:03:00):
percent off. It's the ultimate in luxury sleep. Go to
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and you'll see all our deals and remember use promo
code eight zero
Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
S t V L A d I E S
Hey, Happy New Year, Happy twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Welcome to eighties TV Ladies twenty twenty six. We have
a very special New Year's gift for you, dear listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
We're taking this week off because Susan's in Atlanta, Georgia,
working on a concert reading of her new musical.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
The Flirt Bar.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
That's right. We have a concert reading of The Flirt
Bar with songs by Amy Ray and Michelle Malone this
coming Saturday and Sunday at Synchronicity Theater in Atlanta. This
is really cool, a very important developmental step for the project.
And we start rehearsals on Monday. And I'm still tired
from the holidays. Did you have a good holiday, Sharon?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Overall? Definitely. Both of my sisters were in town. Both
got to be here for about two weeks, and that's
unusual for my sister Janet, who lives in Houston. She
is usually only able to be here for a few days.
So the fact that she got so much time off
was really great. The downside is that my mom came
(01:02):
down with a little bit of a virus last weekend,
which kept her in bed for a few days, and
doctor says it just some sort of virus, nothing serious
it she just needs some time to recover and she
is slowly getting her energy back, being able to uh
to keep down food, et cetera. It's but it's a process.
(01:23):
It's a process. But she she is on the right
going in the right direction, which makes all the difference.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
That's so great. I'm glad to hear that she's going
in the right direction. I think we all well, not
we all, but I definitely also got a little punched
in the face by some sort of the la holiday cold.
But I had a great time as well, spend it
with the family. All the kids were home and also
so I was partying and working all week getting ready
(01:49):
for this week.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
We are so thrilled to have this opportunity to share
an episode of one of our favorite new podcasts with you.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
And don't worry, Sharon and I will be back with
all new episodes of eighties TV Ladies in two weeks.
But to get to share this special surprise, an exclusive
feed drop episode of the love Boat Podcast Exciting and New.
That's right, there is a love Boat podcast with cast members. Sharon,
I am so excited. The love Boat Podcast is a
(02:20):
TV film and comedy podcast with Fred Grandy, Ted Lange,
and Jill Wheeland. That's right, Gopher, Isaac, you're bartender and
Captain Steubings's daughter, Vicky. I was so in love with her.
I thought she was so cool and I was like,
I want to be Captain Steuben's daughter. This is a
truly amazing podcast and I'm so thrilled we get to
(02:41):
bring our listeners this bonus episode.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Each week, the love Boat Podcast welcomes friends, guest stars,
and fans for a lively and hilarious and very warm conversation.
It's a brand new adventure with the people who made
The Love Boat unforgettable.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
I mean, seriously, Sharon, It's it's been such a I've
so enjoying this podcast.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
Oh me too.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
The love Boat Podcast officially launched November ninth, but the
first episode they dropped was on November eighth, as an
honor to the incredible Loretta Sweat, who passed away May thirtieth,
twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
And this is her last recorded interview, and how fitting
that it is with her dear friends from the Love Boat.
It's really cool.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Loretta Sweat is an Emmy Award winning actress and star
of Mash but she is also a seventies and eighties
TV lady icon and appeared in five episodes of The
Love Boat.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
It was a dream of ours to get to interview
Miss Loretta Switch. She was one of the first people
we tried to get on the show. We tried to
get her for our Cagney and Lacy episodes because she
was the original Cagney, but we could not make the
stars aligned. And I'm so grateful to the love Boat
Podcast for letting us share this one with you.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
So step on board and lean in as Loretta joins Fred, Ted,
Jill and Berniel for an unforgettable conversation.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
If you enjoy this episode as much as we do,
please search for the love Boat Podcast wherever you get
your podcast and subscribe to them. You can also find
them at loveboatpodcast dot com and rest in power, Miss
Loretta Sweat enjoy.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Before we begin, we want to take a moment to
honor the incredible Loretta Sweat and icon, an artist and
a very dear friend to all of us. This conversation
was the final interview she gave, and we are so
grateful to share her voice, and her humor and her
wisdom one more time.
Speaker 5 (04:38):
Loretta was a dynamic personality. She was wonderful and once
she set her sights on where you should be dancing,
you had no choice but to dance. She was like
a big sister. She was like a lovely big sister
and a wonderful, wonderful Veta trend that would pass on
(05:01):
the information to you.
Speaker 6 (05:03):
She was such a joy and had such a love
for the industry that we have all been lucky enough
to work in for so many years, and to have
somebody who had such affection for the craft. And it
didn't matter where you were in your career or what
level you were. She was a generous, kind person and
(05:26):
I so enjoyed our time with her.
Speaker 5 (05:29):
I miss her, I love her, and I think she
was fantastic.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
There is a ship's horn which means you are on
board with the Love Boat podcast hosted by yours truly
Fred Grandie, also known as Gopher Smith. You're Yeoman Purser,
featuring my distinguished colleagues, Ted Lange known as Isaac the Bartender,
and of course Jill Wheeland, the Captain's daughter, Vicky Stubing,
and now to our distinguished guest star.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
Can I introduce my friend.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
You may do that. Let's do that right.
Speaker 5 (06:16):
Now, because we want to talk to her. It is
the lovely Loretta Switt, also known as hot Lips.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
I actually prefer major because I like how ranking everybody
of the work here.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
But it's okay, it's okay, as long as as you
pucker when you call me hot Lips, I accept it.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Well, now you know when you did when you did
our show, you were probably of a higher rank because
you were playing a Russian commissar in the episode it
was called Anushka.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
What a great time, What a great time. Of course,
my love Bernie, he was. We were so good together
and it was a.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Real highlight for me that show and I because I
did I think three three loved boats. I did the pilot.
You did good, Mulligan, Yeah, with Richard Mulligan and Robert
Reid and Pamela Bell. I help you guys get on
the air. Absolutely, that's right, Mulligan.
Speaker 5 (07:16):
You know you help Cagney and Lacy get on them.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Oh I made them. Yeah, you know, they tried.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
When they finally approached me, they had been trying, like
for six or seven years. They even offered the network
Roquel Welsh in my role really.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Believe that I won hope over Roquel felt.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
I believe it. I believe.
Speaker 6 (07:38):
Well you can act, you can act circles around her.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
So there you have it.
Speaker 6 (07:42):
You are spectacular.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
I I really you. She is who she is. You're
gonna hire her for that?
Speaker 4 (07:48):
Do it?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
You know?
Speaker 1 (07:50):
He's very good in whatever happened to Sheila? Whatever the
name that is?
Speaker 4 (07:54):
That? What?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
What?
Speaker 4 (07:55):
How do you tell you?
Speaker 5 (07:56):
The mystery?
Speaker 4 (07:57):
Stephen? Some things?
Speaker 5 (07:59):
Oh no, no.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Movie, the right director and a good script. She's She's
there for you.
Speaker 5 (08:06):
The last of Sheila.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
That's Stephen sound Stephen Sondheim wrote that script.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
Oh is that right? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Stephen Sondheim wrote that script.
Speaker 5 (08:14):
Okay, I did know that. I looked for the songs.
I didn't see any. Listen, uh, Loretta, we have another
guess from your past. He's on here with us.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
He's asked per your instructions.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
My dear.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Yes, I like to think of it as a request. Yeah.
We took it as do this or die?
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Know yourself?
Speaker 5 (08:39):
Bernie Coppel, are you there?
Speaker 4 (08:42):
I'm right here, Hello, my love? How woa, my darling?
Speaker 3 (08:46):
You wrote this sweet note after we did or unders
and and I still have it in my uh my
Treasury Box. But we had such a good time, didn't we.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
I all the episode again last night.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
It works, doesn't it?
Speaker 4 (09:04):
It works?
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Oh my, oh it's timeless. I mean, but Loretta, tell us,
where did you come up with the Russian accent?
Speaker 4 (09:12):
How did you?
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Where did you? I'm Polish?
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Actually there, your powers that be thought that they would
offer it to either me or Natalie.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Wood who's Russian. What they made the right choice with you? Well,
you know, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Natalie would have held a good job too. But I
think that Bernie and I had magic. Yes, I think
that Bernie and I really had chemistry, and we loved
both parts.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
I know.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Bernie, of course, loved doing doc and I really loved
the words, some of the words that they gave me
to say, Like Bernie is proposing, he wants me to
stay with him, honestly, and I said to him, you
love this country very much, don't you? And he says, yes,
very much. And she gets the chance, as a Russian
(10:04):
to say, I too love my country, and I was
very touched by that. I was very touched by the
opportunity to say for her side. And I loved how
human they made that Russian commissarg.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
No and this was like eleven years before the wall
came down, so you know, this is the height of
the Soviet Union.
Speaker 6 (10:28):
And we loved how human you made the character.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
No really really, I mean you you just it.
Speaker 6 (10:34):
Was something beautiful and the chemistry that you and Bernie
had together was so palpable and just leapt off the
screen in such a beautiful way. I mean, it was
truly one of my favorite favorite episodes.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
If they could, if they could have found a way
to bring me back somehow and have this continuing arc
going with Doc.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
But how do you do? She's gonna commute.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
So it really was so special.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Let me ask him, Let me ask something about the show,
because Bernie, you did two stunts in that show. You remember, Yes,
you fell down backwards when you were having vodka in
the dining room and you fell into that laundry hamper.
Now that was you, right, They didn't w how about that.
Speaker 7 (11:24):
That was not a stunt person, That was mer Bernie.
Speaker 5 (11:29):
Did you hit your head? And that's why you're like
you are there?
Speaker 6 (11:35):
You he got it?
Speaker 3 (11:37):
How you tell us.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
My age?
Speaker 3 (11:45):
I've been sort of following your other.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Career when you weren't sailing on the boat and I
happened to see your columb Was it a Columba or
a monk?
Speaker 3 (11:58):
The one that I write about it was it was monk.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
You were just so It's so delightful to watch people
who have established strongly a character in a series see them,
you know, somewhere else, a different environment, costume, accent maybe,
and see them spread their wings and you know, throw
(12:23):
you off your chair because they're like, wow, powerful. Like
Fred Grandy in the film that we we didn't.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Yeah, play the flute. Yeah, he is like the best
thing in in it. No, no, no, no, no, listen.
Loretta and I were in Home. Well it was called
play the Flute. Loretta and I were in a movie together,
but we were never together in a movie. We had
work together.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
So I get to watch him, get to watch the performance.
Go wow, he's so good. But best thing in the
film you and I was second best?
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Well I would, I would, I would reverse that because
you had you had a smaller part.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Yeah, well second best. We were on equal footing there.
You didn't have to drive to Kentucky to do it, though,
did you the heavens? No, well I did. I had
to drive in. It was right after Hurricane uh what
was her name? Hurricane Irma.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
And I was driving up from North Carolina and I
was gonna fly, but I couldn't because of the hurricane.
So I had to drive all the way to Kentucky
to do that. So you're lucky you didn't have to
go anywhere. This is a long drive.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
Did they give you mileage?
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Fred? Yeah, they gave me mileage. What do you think
this was an under the table job or something? Come on,
Loretta and I are professionals. We were We had union contracts,
all right, So listen, I want I want to know
a little bit because you know, you guys had a
rather poignant love scene. Yes, the process shot on the
(13:52):
on on the deck. Now what kind of preparation did
you have to do for that? Well?
Speaker 1 (13:57):
I don't know, Bernie, and I care to discuss that
with you. I mean, I'll let me consult Bernie.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
What do you say, yes, dear, ask me anything.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Well, what do you think do you think we should
share our preparation, you know, behind the scenes and working
up to this wonderful love scene that we did.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Oh that won't it be a hot book? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Well, come on, give us a little taste of it,
will we're in.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
The makeup room practicing.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
I'm not sure those words are correctivous a little taste
of what what you.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
At.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
We're not into Bernie and I are not into sharing,
if you don't mind. That was a very private, all
right preparation.
Speaker 7 (14:42):
Yes, dear, I gotta tell you this. Before, before I
met you, I felt I thought this is what acting is.
And then I met you and I said, now I
know what acting is because you are so beyond magnificence.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
So when I was I need a drink.
Speaker 6 (15:03):
Okay, when was the first time that you guys met?
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Was it on the I want to.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Hold the phone for a second. I'm busy of being overwhelmed.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Okay, But you have to also appreciate the source from
which this comes.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
This is a man who knows the work. That's the
highest compliment you pay a colleague. They know where the
work is because it is work, and they know how,
they know the beats, and so to work with them,
you just get better, you grow.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
So it's always Mulligan.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
For example, I've been gifted. I have worked with these
wonderful people. So Bernie is one of those people. So
when Bernie gives you a compliment, it's beyond being thrilled
with a compliment, is beyond getting a standing ovation from
strangers who enjoyed your performance. But on one you're looking
(16:01):
into this man's eyes and you're saying words that are
coming from a different place, and he's answering those words with.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
His and and so it's it's a very special sharing
and moments that your treasure and Bernie will always be
that love of my life. And from that from that episode,
to see.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
You put that in writing.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Yeah, why recorded it for Christ's sake?
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Isn't that? I think recorded well as his cast mates.
We thank you for training him.
Speaker 6 (16:39):
Yes, And a lot of people don't know that when
we were first doing Love Boat at twentieth Century Fox,
you guys were just a few sound stages away.
Speaker 5 (16:48):
Yeah, they were next door, weren't they next door to us?
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Yeah? You were right around the corner, right right.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
But but I don't uh, I don't remember your ever
coming over.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
To visit, did you not? Like I did?
Speaker 1 (17:01):
I did that doesn't like you?
Speaker 3 (17:05):
You were a little snippet. That's right.
Speaker 6 (17:07):
Nobody cared that I was there. But I loved it.
I loved it.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Yeah, we always got the impression that Mash was a
very close set, and they did not appreciate having visitors,
even if you know we were fellow players.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Although Gary Berghoff, I don't know who gave you that impression.
It was probably a Fox employee. It wasn't anybody on
the show. Because we loved you know, most of us
were stage trained. We loved an audience, and uh fortunately
our crew loved the show.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
They loved being there, and they were a great audience
for us.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Dominic Palmer, who was our cameraman for many seasons, he
would sometimes ruin the shot because he was laughing and
he was moving pooping the camera. I said, dumb, come on.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
You know we're not going to shoot it again. Stop laughing.
But I don't think we ever turned away guests. I mean,
we shouldn't have mobs, but anybody who called and said
can I come, I'm sure it was not a problem.
Speaker 6 (18:20):
I would sneak over on my lunch hour.
Speaker 5 (18:23):
You guys were like a family.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Yeah, like Harry Morgan. When Mac was leaving, my heart
was broken.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
I adored a man, McLean Stevenson.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
We're talking about McClain, and when he told me he
was leaving, I was like, how can you do that
to me? I was like, very personal, and he said, Lorette,
I know I'll never be in anything that's good again.
I said, so, you know, really still what he said.
But I must go out there and try on my own.
Number one, to be on my own, I said, Mac,
(18:56):
you just don't see the forest here. You are number one.
Mac out of the Gate got a golden globe. But
the the you know, opening season, he was he was
really the head in that show until he left. He
was really the one controlling the character, was making us
(19:18):
laugh and cry.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
And but he must have not believed it himself, Loretta,
I mean, oh, he left.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Just yeah, he really wanted to be number one. What
he didn't realize, Bless his heart. Max's gift was reacting,
not acting. Reacting and reacting to those bizarre characters that
we were was what he was so funny, reacting to us.
He needed that because it fed him and that was
(19:45):
his That was his gift. So when they put him
in things that did not reflect that, he wasn't making it.
But Nash was a perfect, perfect thing for him. But
he he just didn't see it.
Speaker 5 (20:01):
Yeah, he didn't recognize it. And that's sometimes the problem
with actors. They don't realize what they're in at that time.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
But reacting is just as important as acting. As a
matter of fact, that's really what acting is. I learned
all of mine from Bernie Coppel because you.
Speaker 7 (20:19):
Know, you never paid me for it, and I never
will when we go back with somebody else. In that
same episode, the scenes between Gavin and Jill were absolutely
had hardbrending.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Uh huh, and Jill was all a nine years old.
I mean, this is you want to you want to
see perfect acting, you watch a kid. And Jill was, no, no,
that's some vulgar Jill, I know.
Speaker 6 (20:52):
It is vulgar. And I still am are still nine no, no,
at almost you know several decades.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
How lucky for you to be surrounded by people who
appreciated your young genius.
Speaker 6 (21:08):
You know, well, how lucky for me to be surrounded
by genius because well, when when I was a little kid, uh,
and I I.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
I was born to do what I do. I know that, yeah,
I this is this is who I am what I do.
So when I was a.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Little kid, I was in dance class, for example, and
I'm very young. I don't know how old I was.
Believe it or not younger than nine. And they stood
us up one day, one at a time. Do a
little something. Now, this little snippet.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
I a child, I mean really a big sang manyana.
Remember manyana manyana manya. They're gonna enough for me. Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
So with the Spanish accent and everything, little hips going
and everything, this little girl's manyana. This little kid is
doing this and people from the class are going crazy,
laughing and enjoying it.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
My mother is humiliated. He doesn't know where to hide.
And on the way home, oh my god, she punished me.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
How could you do that? She's squeezing my hand. Don't
you ever do that? So she crushed what was really
the joy of performing at that age doing, you know,
having fun. And it took me a while to get
back on that. The very next week that the instructor
wanted me to do it again, and I couldn't. I
(22:35):
could do a version of it, but they saw that
my mother had stopped it.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
So when I say, how lucky you were to be.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Recognized at that age that you had this gift.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
And it is a gift. Come on, let's face it.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
No matter how long and hard you study, you begin
with the germ of a gift.
Speaker 5 (22:58):
It is.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
It's what you've essentially told us is that you did
not grow up in a show business family. Ohy, they they,
Oh don't you dare you're gonna be a block?
Speaker 5 (23:07):
No?
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Well no, but I asked that because none of us did. No,
and and so I mean that's something that we all share.
I was I was actively told I had no talent,
so that I should No, I'm serious, Lorette. I was
told that by my members of my immediate family, actively
told yeah, no, no. But but I think, now tell
me if I'm wrong. But I think sometimes that's all
(23:30):
the motivation you need to say. Oh yeah, I'm going
to show you motivating.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
This James Drury rather rather handsome guy, and I loved him.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Oh crush Bill, Oh.
Speaker 7 (23:42):
Lass mates at NYU. So I got drafted into the
Navy and I enjoyed that, had a lot of fun.
They made me a librarian. Jim says, Burnt, come on
out to California. I got an agent for you, and
I'm saying, an asient that's like a magic carpet thing.
So I go to see his agent and the first
thing that happens is he takes a look at my
(24:03):
bio and he says, then he looks at me, gives
me a real hard look, and he says, you're not
handsome enough to be a leading man. You're not ugly
enough to be a heavy. And I was dismissed, and
I said right away, I better do something else.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
So I became a character.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Get a backup plan.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
Yeah, that was my backup plan.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Well, ted was told that he was supposed to be
an auto mechanic, right, yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
And what school?
Speaker 5 (24:29):
Yeah, high school, nineteen sixties. They said they wouldn't give
me drama classes. I had to go in and bake
for drama classes. They wouldn't give it to me because
they wanted me to take auto shop and that wasn't
what I Luckily, I got locked into a theater by
(24:51):
accident and watched a rehearsal and that was it. I
was done.
Speaker 6 (24:55):
And Teddy Bear, that was no accident that you got
locked in. And everything happens for a reason. So that
was for you.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
But that dance, that dance class that you had, Loretta,
was that was that when you finally said this is
what I'm gonna do, this is gonna be my life.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
No, that was a long time before I when when
well as a kid lights up lights out in the house,
I would go under the covers with a lamp and
read a book, well not too loud, but you know.
And I would do all the characters, men, women, children,
(25:32):
at whatever. And when I got to my first acting class,
I realized I had been rehearsing all my life. There
you go, you know, But but no, it's it's all
I ever.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
Wanted to do.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
And my mom, who was so against my career, loved film.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
It was our big connection.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
As we got both got older and more mature. But
my mom would make me by the hand and we
would go to a double feature. It's not a happy marriage, okay.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
And so that was escape escapism for her and probably
every other housewife in the thirties and forties.
Speaker 5 (26:13):
And what city did you grow up in?
Speaker 3 (26:16):
What?
Speaker 4 (26:16):
What?
Speaker 3 (26:16):
What? New Jersey?
Speaker 5 (26:18):
New Jersey?
Speaker 4 (26:19):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (26:19):
So would go to the Central of the Montauk or
the Palace. So I name all those theaters because would
go in see a double feature. That's how long ago
it was. With everything the cartoon, the news reel, the
coming attractions.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Come out, Chinese food and with rice pudding, no raisins,
please go, would go to another theater for another two features.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
We would see four movies a day, and I mean
we wouldn't just sit there. I mean we were into
those movies. And so for her to not realize how bonding,
the bonding that was going on.
Speaker 6 (26:59):
But any way, do you think Loretta, that maybe it
was because I know for my mom she did not
want me to be in this business at all, and
she wouldn't go with me to interview. She'd say, I'll
drive you, but I'm not going in. And this was
in San Francisco.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
We did you a favor that way that would have
your approval right right, right.
Speaker 6 (27:19):
But my question is she was afraid of the industry,
and so that's why she didn't. I wonder do you
think that might have been part of that for your mom,
her reticence to allow you.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Uh, it's very complex. Some of it was jealousy.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
That should have been me, not my child, sure, uh,
which I kind of found out a little bit from
my dad. But but overall, I think, yes, it's the
fear that you're striking out on your own in the
jungle of New York City. What's gonna happen? The prostitution
and they're gonna rape or the guy kill that. Some
(28:01):
of that, not a lot. I think more of it
was my mom, not my God so much. But my
mom wanted me to get married, live across the street
or down a block, and have babies.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
This was her plan.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
I finally got a mouthpiece to say, Mom, I'd die
for you, I will not live for you. That is
my future. This this is you know. But at that
age there's so much you say to your parents without
being rude.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
You know you don't.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
And I was a very good Catholic girl. I didn't
talk back. I always listened. My brother too, We were
good kids. They sent my brother after.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Me and he would meet me in New York and
try to talk me into coming home. Oh God, you're
doing the thing and the stuff. And the first time
he saw me on stage, he came back and he
put his arms around me and he said, I understand.
(29:08):
See there's always that, There's always that moment, Burt, Bernie.
There was not a lot of support for you getting
into this business, was there.
Speaker 5 (29:15):
Well.
Speaker 7 (29:15):
My father was in a jewelry business, and he led
me to believe it's the only way I could ever
make a living was to be a jeweler.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
As as he was, and I.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
Said, I don't really like that, And I really liked that.
Speaker 7 (29:29):
I got some encouragement from of the teachers at at
at the n y U n YU exactly. I got
into the Verse Choir and the Old City Radio Workshop,
which was great, great fun, and then I got into
n YU.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Now you're doing radio again. All right, here we go.
My would encourage me behind my mother's You see, my
mom was really it was twos a piece of work.
She wash, that's interesting, Not really, you know, but I
mean that makes us all survivors. And to some degree,
(30:11):
I think having that barrier makes you try a little
harder because you want to prove them wrong, don't you.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
No, I don't think that was in my case, but
I think but what it was unconsciously it didn't make
me stronger because it was more difficult to do what
I wanted to do. I was not looking to prove
them wrong or prove myself right. I was looking to
get on stage and will even my auditions people would say, yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
I'm never nervous. Why it's the only opportunity you have
to get on stage in a Broadway house and sing
my heart out and have them pay attention.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
But it was more about that than getting the job.
It was getting there and doing it.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
And to this day that serves me well, it's not nerves,
it's the excitement of getting out there. When I told Cheetah,
she said, oh my god. She says, I'm supposed to
be one of the best, and I'm I'm a pack
of nerves before I go out. Some people vomit faked.
I mean, they're like, well, I don't. I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
I understand it, but I'm not acquainted with it. I
can't wait, you know, to so I whatever glitch or
I don't know what happened with me getting born. I
wanted my own day. I wanted my own time, my
own space. And when I struck out, I had zero zip.
(31:40):
I mean, I don't know what possessed me to think.
I never said I was going to try to be
an actor. I said I was going to be an actor.
You didn't even dare tell people what you're what you wanted. Well,
one day I had the courage.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
I built up the courage.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Went to Sister albeings like education and Sister Albie, and
I said, you know, I don't talk about this easily,
but in my heart. I really want to be an actor.
I want to be you know. And she said, I
have a niece in the business. Let me talk to
her about it and see if I can get you
(32:18):
some advice.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
Wow, all right.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
For the next couple of weeks she avoided me. I
mean I was trying to get you know that she
would and I'm very sensitive to that. She was like
avoiding me, and I thought, all right, it's bad news.
And so I finally cornered her, and she what an
actress she was. Oh, yes, I've been looking for you, right.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
She said.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
I spoke to my niece and she said the field
is overcrowded, so you'd better forget it.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
Oh god, that was that was her advice.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
My my feeling is maybe she did some cursory shopping,
but I don't think she spoke to her knees.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
I just don't didn't believe it.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
I thought that was came from Herna Schuma, you know,
just forget it.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
Let me let me go back to the show that
you and Bernie did together, because I wanted. You know,
You've obviously worked with a lot of leading men, different people,
and some have been better than others. When do you know,
and this is a question for both of you that
it's really clicking.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Immediately, I was going to say the same thing, Yeah,
it's either there or didn't and then you have to
work hard to put it there.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
But no, we because it looked it looked effort, you
know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
We just connected. He connected also through the work. You know,
we we use Bernie uses himself the way I use myself,
and so Bernie and Loretta connected through these characters that
they were. We did the work, You do the work.
Everything takes over, am I right?
Speaker 3 (34:02):
Bernie?
Speaker 4 (34:03):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (34:04):
You know it's flying without a net. You don't need you,
You've you've got it.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
You just do it.
Speaker 5 (34:11):
That's trust too, if you're flying without a net.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
Loretta.
Speaker 7 (34:16):
Every good thing that had to happen did happen between us. Yes,
you're shoving me into the laundry cars.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
That worked perfectly. I mean, you know I wanted to
do that for Bernie for two sears. You got to
do it.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Really had everything, you know, you laughed with us and
you but it was pointed to it was touching and oh, people.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Wanted to talk about the episode for a long time
with you know, they would always bring it up, and
they would want to talk about what happened, because for Doc,
it was a lovely revelation.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
About his character, about who he was, which is what's
wonderful when you have good people doing a series. They
they used that experience to explore how much they can
bring out for everything. So who who thought Doc was
going to fall in love that way?
Speaker 3 (35:13):
Who who you know.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
That he was going to actually get to the point
where he says, there's stay here, don't go home, married me?
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Or you know he's been married four times?
Speaker 7 (35:22):
Because when you got that that severe uniform off, you
became a very attractive lady.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
Your hair was done nice.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
Night, oh yes, and that beautiful white dress.
Speaker 8 (35:34):
You take me slinky boogie you. I said, what's boogie?
What is boogie? You go and boogie and slinky too.
Speaker 6 (35:44):
That's right, Fred.
Speaker 7 (35:46):
I was hoping that you'd come back again, yes to
two times more because you were so and you are
so lovely and I got I got really pissed at
you for taking me, putting me into bed, yelling at you.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
Oh my god.
Speaker 6 (36:05):
I loved that scene so much.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
But Bernie, that that was really We've done a season
and on about eight shows that was really your first
serious love show, wasn't it?
Speaker 4 (36:15):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Yeah, so it's a great place to start.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
It was the best episode I have.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
It was it was more than a serious It was
for Doc, serious for Doc, but it was an element
in his character we hadn't seen yet, and it was
so warm and wonderful. It was such for the fans,
it is wonderful experience to see one of their favorite
(36:42):
characters blossom in a direction that did you know? It's
a surprise and it's a wonderful thing. And I know
I had it. I had the opportunity on mash many
times to reveal her the different elements that composed this major,
this iron major, and I had a fight for it.
Speaker 5 (37:03):
That doesn't tell us, tell us how did you audition?
Did you have to audition?
Speaker 3 (37:07):
Or what was the deal? And there was no script.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Larry Gilbart bless his heart, he works under pressure, like
the day before he gets out of script. You know,
no script, And it was a while before even shot
the pilot, but they had an idea. I was very lucky.
From the time I arrived in Holly Holly Would, I
(37:32):
was working almost almost completely for CBS. I kept doing
the CBS and they owned the show at that point.
They owned the networks they did. They had gun Smoke,
they had Mannus, they had Hawaii five.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
Oh, they had big hits.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
They were writing high and they My first job was
on Gun Smoke, a brilliant English director with an added
have like we want to have lunch. And he introduced
me to Bill Watson. I was going to have a
love scene. He said, I cannot bear the American idea
that you can go on the set, be introduced and
(38:11):
get into a love scene. That's absurd. He said, I
wanted you to to get to know each other a
little bit before you've even read the script. And he
was like a great director. And so I had the
Gun Smoke and then before I was finished, I had
a call from Paramount Millie Gussie.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
Everybody Billy Gussie auditioned me for love Boat and turned
me down. That's how I know MILLI tell that she
was in retrospect. I see she was right. She called
me in to read for.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
A Mannix episode and Michael o'hurleahy anybody else?
Speaker 4 (38:53):
Yes? Yes?
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Was he like absolutely the best. I loved this man.
Oh a lovely director. He gives you.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
He would give me images sometimes to work with. I
shot Mannix, but I didn't know the gun was empty.
But if I pulled the trigger subconsciously, and subconsciously, I
committed a murder. And she was a good person. And
(39:23):
I was like trying to find the good in whatever
I was playing, the humanity. And so after I killed
Mannix and he took the gun away from me, the
look of disappointment and horror in a way and walked
away from me. And I was leaning against the mantle
(39:43):
of a fireplace and Michael comes over. He said, Now,
what I want you to do is go down a staircase,
go all the way down. Just keep going down further
and further and further and further and further until you
lose sight, and we lose sight. You disappear, not physically
(40:05):
but your eyes. You're going to go down and you're
going to disappear because you don't know how to cope
with the fact that.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
You just killed somebody. And I don't God, you know, wow.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
And it was all in the eye, and that's what
he wanted to see in my eyes. And as it happened,
I started to not cried, but there was a tear
that came down down the nose. Okay, how dramatic. I mean,
you can't find a cat? And they ended that was
the end card. They'd never done that, they always end
(40:39):
on like but it was so right emotional.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
Yes, speaking of eyes. You know, the episode that you
and Bernie did together and Jill did was directed by
a guy named Roger d'shoney who did a lot of
our shows. But what he kind of pioneered, and I
think it may have started on your show because the
scenes with Javin, Gavin and Jill were so strong. The
scenes with you and Bernie were so strong that Roger
pushed in in close ups, closer than he'd ever done
(41:07):
with anybody on the show anyway. You remember this, Bernie, Oh,
I mean it was so time well, yes, and Jill
and Gavin, I mean their faces were like landscapes. Yes,
they absolutely filled the screen. And he did it with
Jill and Gavin when they had their moment, and he
did it with you and Bernie when you guys had
your scenes.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
And but that was the gift television could give us.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
You know, going like that too, and you go inside
when you get that close.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Well, Bernie and I in that final scene when we're
saying goodbye. Where we were really there was tight shots
of our heads. I remember that, and Roger really pioneered that.
He was the first guy to really come in that close.
Speaker 7 (41:51):
I saw the episode again last night, and I dreamt
about it all my long.
Speaker 4 (41:57):
Yeah, I'm still dreaming about it right now.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Do you owe me money? I still have that lovely
note that you sent me.
Speaker 6 (42:08):
Will you share what the note says? Or is it
too personal?
Speaker 4 (42:11):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (42:11):
It is personal. I'm happy to share it, but okay,
and now it was his lovely, humorous, left handed way
to say it was stunning.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
But he ended with to do it again with you
would not be a bad thing. Oh, it's too bad.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
The show lasted longer than the Soviet Union, so they
could have brought you back, you know, after you'd been decommissioned,
you know, and you could have worn the white dress again.
Speaker 4 (42:41):
Yeah, but then then you'd have to be Then you'd
have to deal with Putin.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
Well, I I really kind of enjoyed her in the
beginning that my hair pulled back and everything.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Lauren.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Uh, she were walking by the pool and the flowers
or you know, candles, and I'm looking looking at this
absurdity right in her in her eyes and I said
to her, candles in the pool, that's your idea, right, Yes,
(43:18):
it was.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
So much fun. What is this garbage? You know?
Speaker 6 (43:21):
You know, I have to say that it was such
a striking moment when you go from this very austere
commandant to this soft.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
Boogie boogie, slinky good woman and boogie.
Speaker 6 (43:39):
I mean it was it was just this.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Reacting again to Bernie. You can't do that. You can
in your head plan that this is what's going to
be happening, but if you don't have a Bernie to
be happening with, it's not going to be as you know.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
It's that simple.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
I know because for example, I did Same Time Next
Year with several different partners. I did Love Letters with
several different partners, and you know, when you have it,
you know what you've got.
Speaker 4 (44:14):
You know.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Ted Bessel was an amazing George in the Same Time
Next Year. Amazing Gene Sachs used to look at me
and rehearsal. I had say he was born to play
this character. He was George.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
And one night early.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
On we came off the stage and looked at each
other as though we had been on another planet. I
can't describe it any other way, which is like.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
Whoof, whoof woof.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
We never discussed it, but we just had this thing,
this explosion of reality in the fiction anyway. But I
had that every moment with Bernie, and of course when
you have it in front of the camera is really
exciting because you're clicking in, you know.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
But I got to tell you my favorite line in
that episode actually was not with Bernie. It's when you
come to Julie McCoy's door and you say, I want
to be slinky. Remember that, because now it's going to
go boogie. Yeah, I already asked what is boogie? Yeah,
I have to find out what is slinky? But then
(45:27):
after that we saw you in the white dress and
it was game over for everybody. Yeah. I also wore
a kind of nifty black number. But it was fun
too for many reasons getting her out of that tight
officer outfit, but also from the actor point of view,
(45:47):
getting out of the fatigues. That was always great.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Fun for me to have that we who wore the green.
After a while, everything is green.
Speaker 3 (45:59):
I would watch her.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
My hair looked green, everything was fatigue green. So so
to break out in this though she comes in tough,
but then melts into this glamour girl doing boogie yeah clinky,
you know it was yeah yeah, And.
Speaker 6 (46:19):
The white dress was the perfect choice for it because
she came in.
Speaker 3 (46:23):
Is this very as you say, she became a virginal.
Speaker 6 (46:26):
Though, right, but and yes, this this this angelical. It's
almost like you had a halo over you and just
it was. I still I mean to this day, I
can't remember what I had for breakfast yesterday, but I
remember you in that dress, and I remember how I
felt when I saw you come on camera and the
softness and it was just it's just a beautiful thing
(46:47):
to watch.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
That's lovely. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
A part of what I remember working on, even subconsciously,
when I attacked any role, always to find that core
of goodness, because like Anne Frank, I do believe in
the goodness of people, that everywhere, all of us we have,
(47:11):
humanity has a goodness that I will believe always, no
matter what if they're if they're crucifying me, I will
hang on to that thought the way this little child did.
She's gonna die any second, and she believes it, and
so I think it's imperative you have that going into
(47:32):
a role going into believing that core is there. So
I played a psychotic killer at one point and tried
to find not to justify the killingness she killed people,
but to find that core in her that made her
do that what sickness? What you know, So that by
(47:53):
the end when she was captured and they were taking
a wig off hers, you're just trying to kill somebody
and she it was so you felt sorry for her.
You felt sorry that she had that disease or whatever.
And that's what I kind of look at what. I
went on tour with Bill Holden for Soob the film
(48:18):
that we did, and okay, Bill, one day wo tour,
it was a press tour. We were sitting at a
table Mulligan and Bill Holden and myself and Bill, who
never fancied himself by the way an actor, he was,
you know, he doing a job, but he was a
fabulous natural actor. But when he started talking about what
(48:42):
he was doing, he may not realize it, but he
knew the work. And he said, I always start out
finding out what was good about the character, because if
you look at my resume, I play Heels, all the
guys that I play look at them, and you start
to realize he's absolutely right, Son said Boulevard.
Speaker 3 (49:04):
The guy's a heel, he's a tar.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
But he when he winds up, you see the goodness
in him. He falls in love with the innocent girl.
He wants to leave this woman who's being deceived. You
know she's but by the studio. But you know, and
so and and he he, he went through all of
all of his why why he was an absolute heel.
(49:28):
He was a coward, he was a pretended and he
ends up trying to shoot the mad guy who's caused
this chaos, you know, you he says and dies. And
he was talking about that, and I thought, God, Mulligan
and I were looking at you like somebody taking this
(49:50):
down on tape or something. Well, and he was talking
about growing from that core and and showing nobody is
a total heel. This is who he really was, that that,
you know. And so I became aware of that in
my work as well, looking for uh.
Speaker 3 (50:09):
You had to you had to look for the good
in Hula Han when I began, because they were writing
her like she was was Eileen Brennan, who adored but
she played a character in Benjamin for example.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
It's not what Hula Han was, nor was Benjamin. What
we did in the series, you know.
Speaker 3 (50:32):
So, but but I mean, obviously, and I think we
probably went through the same thing you did, although perhaps
quite as deeply. But you know, if you're if you're
good in your character when you start out, eventually you
can educate the writers to write for the character you
want to play. And I think all of us got
(50:53):
to that that point. Maybe it took us a little
longer than it took you, because I don't think we
were actor focused as you were. But the fact of
the matter is, if you stay on a show for
a long time and it's a success, eventually, if you're
good enough the act, you will convince and teach the
writers to write the way you want to play the part.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
Wasn't the writers so much the problem.
Speaker 3 (51:18):
It was the producers, not Gelbart, but it was they.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
They came off of Hogan's heroes at John Witmain movies,
and you know, and this this was not what we
saw in what we were doing. We were playing real
people at the front in Korea, met especially the women,
the women in Korea that I commanded volunteered to be there,
(51:48):
the coldest country on the planet, at the hottest country
on the planet. The things that killed us in Korea
was number one frostbite, number two bite.
Speaker 3 (52:00):
And then the war.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
Do these women volunteered? They were not drafted. I'm not
putting the knock on the guys who were drafted. All
I'm saying is these women just did it, and you
you can't. I can't play a part like Shultzi. You
know in in Hogan's I can't. I I took her
(52:24):
very seriously, and when I began, I said to Gelbart,
you have to know in advance. My aim will be
the bet to be the best goddamn head nurse in Korea.
That will be my goal. Yes, they're only concerned is
it going to be funny as it? Trust me, I'll
be funny. If I'm dying, I can be funny. Just
give me the opportunity to.
Speaker 3 (52:47):
Are you hearing this? Guys? They had problems with their
producers too. What a shock, What a shock. I'm stunned
to hear this. What you didn't the producers didn't understand.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
I'm stunned that Alan Alders said to me, you've got
a tough hoe here because you and uh and Larry
Larry Linnville are so funny and great together. They're they're
gonna have the writers now he's talking about they don't
want to.
Speaker 3 (53:17):
Let go of those laughs.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
They're company here there, you guys are and so they're
not gonna be easy to convince. And I would come
back from Pa Torars people, fans, what are you doing
with that character? Where are this mark? They recognized before
the writers that this is not a possible for Margaret.
(53:39):
He's married, there's no future. He's an imbecile. Why is
she going with this joke of the army that everybody's
putting him down? It he's not a good surgeon, Ah,
very important. She admired it. She may have been angry
with the surgeons. She admired what they were doing. Frank
was losing patience. I mean he was being criticized for
(54:01):
his lack of expertise.
Speaker 3 (54:03):
What is she doing with this guy? Okay?
Speaker 1 (54:06):
Number one, you have her loneliness. Ah, so, but then
you don't write these spectacular love scenes and you have
to see through why she's there?
Speaker 3 (54:18):
Oh, Rank, you know what?
Speaker 1 (54:20):
Which you have to see the frustration and the end
of Towards the end of the second or third season,
well it was seventy six probably. I was in New
York doing a play and the boys called me and said,
(54:42):
let's have a conference. We're on hiatus. We want to
hear what your thoughts are for the next season for Margaret.
And I took them through what I Yeah.
Speaker 3 (54:53):
I did.
Speaker 1 (54:53):
This was major, breakthrough, major, and I, well, here here's
what I think. Number one, send her to Tokyo on
R and R. Let her meet a guy who outranks Frank.
Don't make him a doctor, make him a lieutenant colonel
and give him I mean, make him a little tall,
dark and handsome. Let's see something that she would go
(55:14):
for and get engaged. Can you imagine Lynnville when I
come back to the four seven seventh with a ring
and and we know, I said, he'll tear off the
doors of the tent. And that's exactly what he did,
by the way, because as a joke we were talking
about and and they were they were loving it.
Speaker 3 (55:35):
They thought it was a good idea.
Speaker 1 (55:37):
Now, Gene Reynolds says to me, well, sweetness, her sweetness,
He said, what what happens now? What happens next? I said,
she gets married? No, oh, gee, that's so permanent, I said, Gene,
you're divorced.
Speaker 3 (55:53):
How are you gonna give you what.
Speaker 1 (55:57):
Is permanent of you? I said, she can just him
being disloyal. And then she's back in town realizing she
doesn't need these goons to complete her life. She is
so she's blossoming through these these this pain and hardship.
She also through this, Alan writes a script.
Speaker 3 (56:19):
She has a.
Speaker 1 (56:20):
Meeting of the Bodies and the Mind under Fire with
Alan aldas Karen, and that layers their relationship in a
very bountiful way.
Speaker 6 (56:31):
I love that episode so much.
Speaker 5 (56:33):
I remember that episode. I love it very vividly.
Speaker 3 (56:37):
Yes, a really good friendship and and and it's still
gonna be funny.
Speaker 1 (56:41):
If we we broke the rules, we can still be
funny and do serious stuff. We can have you laughing,
but we'll have you crying and laughing at yourselves. And
so we you know, I think that was the greatness
if if you will, the mash and the writers they
had us run the amates. You know, wasn't just the
one thing. Also, my character broke a barrier in terms
(57:08):
of growth. Most of the characters on television in like
in my category, let's say, stayed the same for as.
Speaker 3 (57:16):
Long as they're on.
Speaker 1 (57:17):
They never grew, They never changed. That makes it unreal.
We change every five minutes. When I leave, I'm going
to be changed by the time I get Oh, we change,
we grow, and we have to allow the character that
we're doing to do that or we're going to lose
our audience.
Speaker 6 (57:38):
I wanted to take a moment, and you just absolutely
illustrated what I was going to say, was that coming
from Hogan's Heroes writing or from John Wayne films, the
way they wrote women then, and what you did with
your character the major was I think so groundbreaking because
it was one of the very first characters that was
(58:01):
not just t and A. It was not just a
pretty face. It was so much more, and it was
so rich and so interesting and so conflicted and yet
so wonderful to watch. You know, you hated her arrogance,
but god, you just loved her conviction and all of
those things made you so interesting to watch.
Speaker 3 (58:24):
On our show, it was a different experience, and I
think that I will pull my colleagues on this, but
I don't think we got to even get close to
that kind of experience until we started to write episodes ourselves.
I mean, Bernie and I wrote an episode for Ted
the first season, I wrote one for Bernie. It was
an effort at survival because we were probably programmed to
(58:46):
stay exactly the same, which is what you were talking
about with women. Well, we were comic foils for the
most part, Ted, Bernie and me, and unless we figured
out a way to grow, that wasn't going to happen.
Speaker 5 (59:00):
Once they found the joke, they were going to hit
that joke every week every time that they did not
pay attention to the evolution. But thank goodness, the show
ran for a long time and it had to evolve.
Speaker 4 (59:16):
Thirteen years.
Speaker 3 (59:18):
We outlasted them, Loretta, We survived.
Speaker 1 (59:22):
Your episodes were peppered enough with really good people.
Speaker 3 (59:27):
Yes, well you make us look good. I mean, it's
when we get somebody like you on the show. It
obviously it upgrades our status because.
Speaker 1 (59:36):
We know what it does is bring out the best
in all of us. We need each other to be
as good as we can be. You know, you know
we're all saying our feeling at least the same thing.
We we need each other. That they call mash this
great family. But yet a group of actors together who
(59:59):
are are doing that kind of work, they are a family.
They are a creative, wonderful, juicy family. But I think
loving what we do is crucial.
Speaker 4 (01:00:12):
It's the most absolutely absolutely, it's so much fun. It
feels good.
Speaker 5 (01:00:18):
Yes, and we're so happy you got to share our
family because we did become a family much like your
cast and mash. So the fact that you came over
to where we'd like to play and you played with
us is absolutely one.
Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
And you're playing with us now. And come on, we
can't thank you enough for doing this show. You know,
we're trying to get this off.
Speaker 1 (01:00:43):
The ground from the time my friend called me.
Speaker 3 (01:00:47):
And you know, when you said we want to have Bernie,
we took a vote and he still won. But you know, yeah,
I've got I'm gonna usually take it. Yeah. But that
episode that you guys did is one of the classics.
Speaker 5 (01:01:08):
It is a classic. It is a classic.
Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
It is a classic.
Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
You guys compose a classic. What is the definition of
a classic? It lasts forever.
Speaker 9 (01:01:45):
Thanks for listening to the love Boat Podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:01:47):
Exciting and.
Speaker 9 (01:01:50):
If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend,
leave us a rating and review, and subscribe wherever you
get your podcasts. Follow along between episodes at loveboatpodcast dot com.
Or on Instagram at loveboot Podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
Hey it's Susan again. If you love this tribute to
Loretta Swit and want more nostalgia, behind the scenes stories,
deep dives, and all that joyful love into TV that
shape generations, follow the love Boat Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
or your favorite listening app. Thank you guys for listening,
(01:02:32):
and long live the ladies who shaped the eighties.
Speaker 10 (01:02:37):
I love my bamboo sheets, and that's exactly what Cozy
Earth is all about. They've been on Oprah's Favorite Things
list four years. We're talking about butterysoft bamboo sheets plus
amazing pajamas. Best Jet Eighties TV Ladies can offer you
the best discount forty one percent. Yes that's forty one
(01:03:00):
percent off. It's the ultimate in luxury sleep. Go to
Eighties TV Ladies My deals link in our show notes
and you'll see all our deals and remember use promo
code eight zero
Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
S t V L A d I E S
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