Ep. 181 High Impact Questions That Turn Prospects Into Clients with Phil Whitebloom

What if the problem isn't your marketing, but something else entirely? Phil Whitebloom, a nationally respected sales coach with over 40 years of experience who led teams generating $1.5 billion in sales at Sony Electronics, reveals why most business owners completely misdiagnose their sales problems. Through his work with CEOs and entrepreneurs, Phil has discovered that when companies get 60 qualified leads and close zero deals, the issue isn't lead quality-it's something much more fixable. His insights challenge everything you think you know about the relationship between marketing and sales, and why even successful businesses hit plateaus they can't break through.

In this conversation, Phil shares his tactical versus strategic success framework and introduces the concept of "high impact questions" that go beyond typical open-ended queries to uncover the real reasons behind customer decisions. You'll discover why most solopreneurs think they're "bad closers" when the actual problem lies elsewhere, how to get completely out of your own head during sales conversations, and the graduate-level technique for handling objections that most people never learn. Phil's approach isn't about being pushy or salesy-it's about becoming genuinely curious and focusing entirely on helping your prospect, which paradoxically leads to more sales than any aggressive closing technique ever could.


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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hello everyone, Welcome to Achieving Success with Olivia Akin. I'm
your host, Olivia Akin. Each week we will discuss the
role map of achieving your personal and professional success. We
give you real life stories on growing personally and professionally
to achieve your life and career goals with the help of.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Some top notch guests.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Today we are speaking with Phil White Blue. Phil is
a nationally respected sales coach, author and the founder of
Been There Consulting Services. With over forty years of real
world sales experience, including as vice president of sales at
Sony Electronics. Phil has led teams that generated over one

(00:48):
point five billion in sales. That's a B billion with
a bee. He's also known for delivering instant traction, helping
businesses unlock revenue fast, often after just one conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Phil's newest book, The Sales.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
Fixer, is a must read for CEOs who want to
understand what's holding back their sales and fix it.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Whether he's coaching on objection.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
Handling, high impact selling, or leadership that driven results, Phil
brings clarity, warmth, and tactical know how. You can find
Phil by going to his website been there cs dot
com or by emailing him at info at beIN there
cs dot com, or by searching him on LinkedIn at

(01:38):
Phil white Bloom.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
Hello Phil, it's fantastic having you on the show today.

Speaker 3 (01:42):
Oh, it's great to be here. I have been looking
forward to this.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
I'm looking forward to it as well.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
And to start off the show, can you tell me
what success means and looks like to Phil white Bloom.

Speaker 3 (01:53):
I could do that. I'm going to give it to
you in two ways.

Speaker 4 (01:56):
So one is tactical success and the other strategic success.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
So tactical success is when.

Speaker 4 (02:05):
I'm working with somebody and they've been struggling in a
particular area or stuck and they achieve what they are
trying to achieve relative to sales or whatever else I'm
working with them on. So anytime you can make an
immediate impact on somebody and they feel it and they
can measure it, that's a success. That's a tactical success.

(02:26):
The success, for the strategic part.

Speaker 5 (02:29):
Is when individuals who have who have been getting better
and better at making these short term results, when it
becomes so natural to them now it's something they don't
worry about anymore.

Speaker 4 (02:43):
They have taught themselves and learned how to take what
they've done in the short term and just execute it
day in and day out everything else and that's the
best of all.

Speaker 3 (02:56):
That's like, hey, Phil, we don't need you anymore.

Speaker 4 (02:58):
We are doing great and that's that's long term success.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
And one thing you.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
Just mentioned is you broke it up into tactical and
two different groups. So tell me for you, is there
important in category categorizing those two definitions of success into
those buckets for you?

Speaker 3 (03:21):
Yes, So that's the first time I eve just asked
that question. It's a good one too, So yes.

Speaker 4 (03:29):
So the when you introduced me as a sales coach,
which is correct as and so why do I say
that to all of you who are listening in because
the other one is sales training and many many businesses
and individuals confuse that when they see sales coach, they
immediately think training and training is very linear, right, So

(03:50):
they teach you.

Speaker 3 (03:51):
You get and it's very important by the way, and
you learn.

Speaker 4 (03:55):
How to meet people, how to get in the door
all the way through to closing, and sometimes even how
to retain customers, clients, patients. But it may not be
helping you at that point in time with what you
really need. So people are in business today, regardless of
what it is, you're in business today. You need positive
results today. And this is where the bucket comes in

(04:18):
that in working with people with where they are right now,
what are they struggling with right this minute. And it
doesn't always have to be from something bad.

Speaker 3 (04:28):
It doesn't have to.

Speaker 4 (04:29):
Be that we're getting you, we're really behind and we're
really worried about our overall business. Sometimes people are they plateaued.
They're already successful, they're making profits, but they want to
go to the next level and then they're stuck there.
So in this bucket, these are the tactical things in
helping people. What are you working on right now that's

(04:50):
going to have a positive result right now. And then
the other one is building these skills and confidence and
confidence is key as to take this forward all of
the time and what they don't have to think about anymore,
like learning how to drive a car or the cliche
ride your bicycle, right, you don't think about it.

Speaker 3 (05:09):
You just get in there and do it. Same thing. So,
how did I do good?

Speaker 1 (05:14):
And I think you're right, you know, I think so
many times we try to lump it into one category
or encompass everything into our definition of success, right, use
keywords and then be like, okay, well now this has
to fit over here and fit this bucket, and it

(05:35):
has to fit all the buckets right, and then that
unsure enough that I'm sure starts to set in as
well as like okay, but does it and what does
that mean? So breaking it up into different projects, especially
as an entrepreneur as the tactical side is important because
so many times people forget like things should have a

(05:58):
process and a procedure and not only is that tactical,
but it saves time, it saves you know, getting things
wrong and the consistency of it so you can have
those reps and right, you know, take the training wheels
off the bike, get all of that as well, and
long term hit your goals. So I love how you

(06:20):
brought up the tactical side to it as well and.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
Talking about you.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
Know, success and industries as you brought up being a
sales coach and understanding where you are now with things
you yourself have led through massive industry ships from example.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
From analog to four K.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
What's one belief or mindset that helped you lead well
through disruption? Because so many of us, whether it's that
or other aspects have disruption in our everyday lives or businesses.

Speaker 4 (06:58):
So disruption, if you were to visualize disruption, it's an
easy thing to do.

Speaker 3 (07:04):
You know, it causes.

Speaker 4 (07:06):
People, and you know, we could talk about businesses, but
it's all about the people, and it causes people to
panic and they don't want to change.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
And I could tell you.

Speaker 4 (07:16):
From from working with different companies in the US government,
and there was times when with film cameras and it
was transitioning into nonlinear even before it was digital, there
was an analog that was recording on this and it
was nonlinear. And I remember talking with customers who said,
we will never get away from film, never, right, And

(07:41):
so now you have a hard time finding film. But
there's real changes that happen where it changes.

Speaker 3 (07:50):
How you do things.

Speaker 4 (07:51):
And one of those biggest changes going way back now
was going from typewriters to work processors, which were just
big machines, not an app on your phone or computer
or anything. And it was and it was disrupting the
entire administrative way of operating and people were panicked, they're
going to lose their jobs, that these machines are going

(08:13):
to take their jobs away and everything else, and I
could go on and on with you know, today it's
AI which is really disruptive. I mean it's major leagues.
So and what happens is with businesses, it's always not
about losing jobs. It's about embracing what the value that

(08:34):
you'll get from the new technologies. And when you go
to any business owner, even a solopreneur, and you say,
what aren't you getting done?

Speaker 3 (08:42):
That's really important.

Speaker 4 (08:43):
That you just need to find a way to get done,
but it's not happening, and they will tell you, and
they'll probably give you a list. And so then you
ask them, well, what would you do if all of
a sudden you had these resources available? And they said,
what do you mean, Well, because now because of these
new technologies, Olivia could they could enable these new technologies

(09:04):
which make them more efficient. We'll give them time back
and if it frees up these people, you can now
use them.

Speaker 3 (09:10):
To do other things. So this new disruptive.

Speaker 4 (09:12):
Technology is not only making it more efficient in that area,
it's also allowing them to use this resource to free
up humans or other humans or somebody to get retrained
and retooled to take on these other tasks that are
important and that's going to help your business overall. And

(09:34):
this is what's really dynamic about disruption is that you
don't fight it. If it's for real, find a way
to embrace it, find a way to make it efficient
for yourself, because when you don't, you fall behind, and
sometimes you fall so far behind you can't recover.

Speaker 3 (09:51):
So that's my answer.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
For you as well, you know, going through those moments
of disruption by having the real world experience, that insight,
the perspective, the hey like I got to learn this
on my feet and pivot and do this and that.
How do you feel that has helped you with where

(10:16):
you are now helping others Because it's not like you
just spoke up one day and said, oh, I'm going
to go do this and help other people. You actually
have that knowledge in backing yourself of doing it in
different spaces.

Speaker 4 (10:32):
So it comes down to something you can hear me
talk about more than twice. Today is going to be
talking about asking questions, and about asking what I call
high impact questions, which is most everybody's heard about close
questions which a yes or no, and then open ended
is where you have to give an answer. Well, high
impact brings out the reason behind answer or somebody's answer.

(10:55):
And the way to do this is not the focus
on the thing. It's about focusing on what it is
that you want to accomplish with this.

Speaker 3 (11:07):
And that's where I'm able to help.

Speaker 4 (11:09):
When I'm able to help, don't get hung up on
the bells and the whistles. Say what is it that
you're trying to do? Why is that important to you?
You know, what is it that you're not able to
do today that you if you were able to.

Speaker 3 (11:22):
Do it will make difference? And why is that important
to you?

Speaker 4 (11:28):
And this is magic, but it's not magic to do
anybody could do this, And it's about listening and finding
out what's going to what is that real reason behind
the whys and the whys. And that's how you get
to this point of helping people. It's getting them past
the bells and whistles and getting them to say, oh,

(11:49):
you could help me get this done, Oh my god,
this is going to be great, and you have you
don't have to close very many people at that point
because they kind of themselves.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
And that being said, you know a lot of people,
small business owners, solo entrepreneurs, even people in growth and
misdiagnosing what they feel is their sales problem. When you're
coaching CEOs, where do you see most often those individuals

(12:22):
misagnosing their own sale problems.

Speaker 4 (12:26):
That happens more often than anybody would really think.

Speaker 3 (12:30):
And there are some common things, you know.

Speaker 4 (12:32):
One of them is my people, if they have sales teams,
my people are not good closers. Or if they're solopreneurs,
I'm not a good closer, or I don't want to
be sales ey and you know, these are the kind
of things, and they're diagnosing this problem as they're diagnosing
their situation with this as the problem, and more times

(12:54):
than not, by a large margin, they're wrong. And I
don't come out and say, hey, you're you're probably wrong.

Speaker 3 (13:02):
What I do is say, well, let's find out what's
going on.

Speaker 4 (13:05):
And then through a process of discovery, like any medical
person or anybody else that's out there, like even like you, Olivia, you.

Speaker 3 (13:13):
Know, you do your homework and you.

Speaker 4 (13:16):
Figure out what's going to work best for you and
for your listeners and your viewers. So when that happens,
then I'm able to point to what the real problem is.
For example, there's one company that I work with, where
the president of the company and their business coaches, who
the business coach is actually the person that brought me
in because I couldn't fix the sales problem. Was convinced

(13:39):
that their problem was that their salespeople were terrible. Convinced,
and so when I started working with them, I found
out they're not great, but they're not terrible. But I
did find out that their general manager was terrible. And
he was a very nice person at all, but he
was a terrible leader. And there was all kinds of issues,

(14:00):
including morale and everything else that went along with this,
and that was the problem. And when that problem got fixed,
then everything else got better. And so that's how you
just you find out why they think it's going on,
and then you dive in and you come to the
real reason.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
Let's take it, you know, that really covers the example
of teams, and sometimes it's one person that it can
affect and have a domino effect on not just individuals
but business. But let's take it a step farther as well,
and let's say for those solo entrepreneurs who you had mentioned,
you know, we'll say a lot of times of I'm

(14:45):
just not a good closer. I don't want to be salesy.
I have said those things myself sometimes before I really
started honing in on my sales technique and getting out
of my own way about it. What do you think
tends to be the most like pushback for them from

(15:07):
themselves on leveraging that as the excuse.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
Is it not being a.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
Quiped to necessarily doing it, getting out of their own head?
Is there certain areas that tend to need more focus
on than others.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
What do you find, especially right now is going.

Speaker 4 (15:24):
On when people go into business for themselves or they
get into a franchise or something like this, that they
have an area of genius that's their own, and this
is why they went into this business. They went into
this business to help others with what they do with

(15:45):
whatever the services are offering or the products or both.

Speaker 3 (15:48):
And the last thing they think about is selling.

Speaker 4 (15:53):
And it's very rare to find anybody that opens their
doors and people are piling in.

Speaker 3 (16:00):
It's they've done everything right to get their business set.

Speaker 4 (16:02):
Up, and they've done all the things, and it's because
oh my god, we have to sell something.

Speaker 3 (16:07):
And many times your best friends.

Speaker 4 (16:09):
Who say, oh yeah, we're going to be your first customers,
and we're going to bring all these people and then
you open your doors and you don't see anybody, and
that happens, and so they don't have any skills in
this area. And it's not about being introverted or extroverted
or an ambientvert. It has nothing to do with any
of that. It has to do with the lack of

(16:31):
skills because they've never had to use them before, or
they weren't conscious that they were using them in the past.
And this is a really big challenge because there's a
total lack of confidence. And then what happens as a
result of that is when they meet people, they just
start throwing up about what they do right at the

(16:51):
people they're talking to. They haven't asked the question, they
have no idea what the needs are or anything else.
I've just experienced this with somebody this morning before this recording.
And when you get them to relax and help them
with asking questions and listening and active listening, it makes

(17:16):
a huge difference. And then they could get into their
area of genius and then the sales come easier. Sales
are not easy anyways, but you could definitely make it
easier on yourself, and you're going to have to if
you're own business.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
And one thing you just said there as well as
sales don't come easy. And I think right now in
the day of social media and where some businesses are
standing between AI and just all these things, so many
businesses want sales. And you hear so many of these
sponsored ads or people out there of like we could

(17:53):
get you sales, we can close your sales, or all
this stuff around sales. Why do you there's been i'll
say the golden ticket people trying to wave that golden
ticket in front of small business owners and entrepreneurs whether
they're solo or not. That makes them them feel like, Okay,

(18:14):
this should be the easy route. Why isn't this coming easy?
When you are correct, it's a level of skill set
and getting comfortable with it and feeling secure and all
these different things while having the conversation.

Speaker 4 (18:30):
Yeah, so let's just focus on quality people with quality advertising,
not the people with a little less integrity, you know.

Speaker 3 (18:39):
Okay, so let's a focus on the positive folks. So
one of the.

Speaker 4 (18:42):
Mistakes here is one that's a little bit of panic
that happens and you're and you're looking for something help
and you don't know. And I've made plenty of my
own mistakes in my own business, so you know, all
the experiences that I'll like to use to help others
aren't because they're all positive experience, since I've had my
own negative experience to make my own mistakes. But one

(19:06):
of the areas that that's a fallacy is with marketing.
And for marketing folks who are listening, hang with me here.
You're going to be happy.

Speaker 3 (19:14):
So it is not marketing's job to make sales.

Speaker 4 (19:19):
Marketing's job is to build awareness and generate leads. It's
up to sales to make sales. So a quick story
is I was in a meeting one time and there
was a small business. There's several small business there, but
one of the owners got up and he said, my
marketing company failed me. They brought me sixty qualified leads.

(19:44):
Now this was qualified by the owner's definition, not the
marketing companies. They brought me sixty qualified leads and we
got no business from it. And he fired that marketing company.
Any other small business in there would be hugging that
marketing company and giving them more and more things to
do because they brought in sixty qualified leads and.

Speaker 3 (20:08):
I went to them afterwards. I didn't say anything.

Speaker 4 (20:10):
During the meeting, and I don't call him out in
a meeting, but went to him and asked him about
what was going on and he said, yeah, he goes.
I said, tell me about your sales organization, because well,
we don't have one and we.

Speaker 3 (20:21):
Don't do this.

Speaker 4 (20:21):
I said, well, you know sixty qualified leads and you
close none of them.

Speaker 3 (20:25):
That's the sales problem.

Speaker 4 (20:27):
So when people, when marketing people, say they're going to
do all this stuff and they're going to generate this activity,
and if they're one hundred percent successful in doing this
for you, or maybe you have a calling campaign for
people to help find you leads and it's a really
good company, and they're going to bring in all these people.
And if they bring in all these people and you
don't have the capacity to follow up.

Speaker 3 (20:48):
That's one issue.

Speaker 4 (20:49):
The other one is and if you don't have the
skills to follow up, then all.

Speaker 3 (20:52):
This positive stuff was a waste of money.

Speaker 4 (20:55):
And not only that, it's worse, Olivia, how could get
a worse?

Speaker 3 (20:58):
Thanks for asking, I'll tell you here it is.

Speaker 4 (21:02):
It gets worse because now you have a negative reputation
and now you're getting negative referrals, and what that means
is you don't know how many opportunities you're losing because
people say, hey, did you talk to so and so
or go see that person? You say, yeah, we were
really interested, but they didn't follow up, or they didn't
follow up right, or they didn't do something here and
you and they never call, So you don't know how

(21:23):
many calls you're actually losing because of your inability to
follow up because you were overloaded or you didn't have
a good skill at that. And that's really dangerous. But
people go after this magic, as you said, these golden tickets,
thinking it's going to be the end all to everything,
and it is not.

Speaker 3 (21:43):
It is a portion of what you need to do.

Speaker 1 (21:47):
And I love how you brought up you know that
clarity as well, and not only the example, but how
you started it off of like what is marketing jobs
and what is sales shops? Because there's so many times
I get on calls with people as a podcast consultant
and helping people get on globally raunged podcasts or starting

(22:09):
and growing their own and then they go to me, Okay,
well just for like clarity, Like I'm gonna make this investment,
and how quickly can I get sponsors or how quickly
can I get clients?

Speaker 2 (22:21):
And I say, listen, most people.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
Are gonna tell you out the gate, I date what
the expected or a while B I said, that's all BS.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
I'm like, I'm gonna tell you right now.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
Anyone who tells you that is lying to your face
to get you to feel like you've gotten that golden ticket.
I say, it is exposure, it's authority. You're getting leads
because every podcast fill your guests on this podcast right now,
my whole everyone who listens to my podcast, and this

(22:52):
episode is a lead for you, right It helps in
all these different avenues to not only generate leads now,
but down the road and get authority and trust and
network and I could go on and on, but I'm
like all of those things compound to then be.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
Able to make a sale.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
But if you go into it being like, oh, I'm
going to make X amount dollars from this or that,
I go also like, there's no way of saying whether
you're going to make those X amount dollars in twenty
four hours or twenty four months, So like they could
come twenty four months from now as well, Right, and
like understanding that when you go into the room, so

(23:32):
expectations are set, but then also you can have those
transparent conversations as well.

Speaker 3 (23:38):
Right.

Speaker 4 (23:38):
And I'm glad you brought up this podcast and what
you're doing because there's a really good example. So for
me here, do I have full expectation that Olivia, that
you're going to be this magic and you're going to
bring in all these people by the way saying yes
and actually having it happen, that would be fantastic, But

(23:59):
there the reality is that there's going to be somebody
that's going to come from this.

Speaker 3 (24:03):
And I always say it just takes one.

Speaker 4 (24:05):
But to make it long term, you have all these guests,
you require many many podcasts. You don't have the bandwidth
to help even a small percentage of them for the long.

Speaker 3 (24:14):
Term keep going in there.

Speaker 4 (24:16):
That is my responsibility as the guest here is to
leverage this time with you and take these quality pieces
and put them up on my own social media and
let people know that they're there. And I could do
this forever and ever and ever. This will last forever.
It's out there on social media, right, and say, hey,
I was on achieving success with Olivia and you should

(24:38):
guys should go look at that. Or I could take
a SoundBite from this that's relevant to somebody else and
put that into a mailing or whatever I want to do.

Speaker 3 (24:45):
So it's always up to us to put the work in.

Speaker 4 (24:52):
We have people like you with quality services that help
us to get exposed.

Speaker 3 (24:58):
And you do what you do for the same reason.
You want to help us.

Speaker 4 (25:02):
And by helping us, it helps you and everybody else around,
and it helps the listeners.

Speaker 3 (25:06):
It's a'll win all the way through.

Speaker 4 (25:07):
But it's up to us to take this and go
And it's not fair to you or anybody else to say, Oh,
I was on Olivia saying she's got.

Speaker 3 (25:15):
These followers all over the world and I.

Speaker 4 (25:19):
Only heard from eight countries and there's still a lot
more countries.

Speaker 3 (25:21):
You know, where were they? Well that's not Alibya's responsibility,
it's not yours, right.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
So yeah, it's just one of those things as well.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
And going back to the sales mindset is you know,
one of the conversations I have and we'll go off,
like being a.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
Guest on a podcast, I talk a lot about.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
It's not just being a guest on a podcast it's
being a guest on the right podcast because I've had
people come to me and they're like, I really don't
see you know, value, or I could just do it
myself because paying someone with your expertise doesn't.

Speaker 2 (25:57):
You know?

Speaker 1 (25:58):
And they have all these reasons on why and no,
And I say to them, well, how's your experience been,
Like you're saying this, what has your experience been? And
they're like, why haven't gotten sales from it? And I'm like, okay,
but what are the conversations you're having? What are the
conversations before you go into the episode, you're having during
the episode and then after and they look at me

(26:19):
like do you're in headlights? Or they'll say something about,
you know, the conversation wasn't impactful, and I'll stop and
I say, okay, well tell me about that, right, And
it then leads into well, I was on this sport
podcast and I'm a financial guy, so we really didn't
get into the financial stuff and that's really why what
I want to speak about, and this conversation really did

(26:43):
happen recently.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
And I stopped it and I said.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
So you're telling me you're not having the conversations you want.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
To have and you want to now do X y
Z with you know, when you're reaching out to host
to make sure.

Speaker 3 (26:56):
You have that.

Speaker 2 (26:57):
But you were on a sports.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
Podcast and that was like one of three he did
and they were all He's like, yeah, I go. So
they weren't the right podcast for the conversation you want
to have. And so you know, it isn't just about
being on a podcast or reaching out to you know,
on Facebook or doing this. It's reaching out to the
right people and learning who are the right people, what

(27:21):
are those goals having Even like you said, it's not
always walking away and signing somebody, but leaving someone with
information because you never.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
Know when that sitting in their head goes light bulb moment. Okay,
now I got to talk to that person.

Speaker 3 (27:37):
Wow. Correct.

Speaker 4 (27:38):
And being on a podcast for the sake of being
on a podcast. You just said it exactly right. It
is a two way street, Olivia. You're very careful with
who you bring on your show, so thank you for
having me. And on the other side, I've learned to
be very careful about who shows I go on because
all exposure is not good exposure and.

Speaker 3 (28:00):
Not that anything bad will happen.

Speaker 4 (28:01):
But it's a waste of time because when you're on
someplace where the questions are matching, you know, are they
even matching the value to their own listeners?

Speaker 3 (28:12):
You have to wonder sometimes, right, and so you know.

Speaker 4 (28:17):
Look carefully about the topic area, but also listen to
those people's podcasts ahead of time and make sure that
you have some kind of feeling like I could work
with this person, this person could probably work with me,
because there's got to be that gel there. So just saying, hey,
I was on one hundred podcasts. If ninety of them
were no good, then you could have been doing something

(28:38):
else right, And couldn't we go back to something you
said earlier, because I don't want your listeners to miss
this because you touched on something that's critical.

Speaker 3 (28:49):
And when you were.

Speaker 4 (28:51):
Talking about solopreneurs and people and you talked about being
in their own head, you made some kind of reference
to that, and all my alert bells went off because
that is exactly what happens. So with let's just talk
about salespeople. Salespeople who are falling behind their numbers. They're

(29:14):
all there, they're thinking about all the time. I got
to make the sale, I got to make the seal
I'm we lose my job, or I can't pay my
bills or whatever. Business owners or are even worse in
some ways. We got to get some revenue, and we
have to get some revenue. While you're doing that, you're
in your own head. That means you are not paying
attention to the person you're talking with. So you have

(29:35):
to get completely out of your own head and focus
on them because when you're not totally focused on your prospect,
they could feel that. They may not consciously realize it,
but subconsciously they do, and you can't ask the proper questions.
You should always be there like you're a multi bazillionaire.

Speaker 3 (29:55):
And you don't need this money. All you want to
do is help.

Speaker 4 (29:58):
And when you go in with that attitude, you're going
to get more business then you would have ever gotten
the other way around, because you're totally focused on them
and they could feel it, and they know it and
they believe it because.

Speaker 3 (30:09):
You're honest about it.

Speaker 4 (30:10):
But if you're worried about all this stuff in your
own head, don't have the meeting. Reschedule it and come
back when you can, because this is the key to
what makes people trust. You. Know, the old thing you
mentioned part of it today too, is you know, the
trust part, and if you know, the people have to
know like and trust you, whether they get to know

(30:31):
you over time or through podcasts like this one, but
to get to trust you, they have to understand that
and believe that you're a quality source, and quality sources
who are really thinking about themselves don't usually get trust.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
And it's one of those things as well, like I've
walked into a room and I've sat there and I'm listening,
and I'm like, Okay, this isn't going to be a
fa Like they're not you know, budget wise or this,
or that there's no way even when you start diving
deep into it, that it's just in alignment or you know,
things like that, And it's okay to have those moments

(31:10):
of like, Okay, this isn't the right prospect or this
isn't the right conversation. But to your point, having those
right conversations, asking the right questions and also following your
gut sometimes like I was recently on a call where
the guy was just like very short and kind of rude,
and I was like, okay, and we're going through and

(31:31):
I'm like in my head I'm going I don't think
I could, like it doesn't seem like they want to
hear what I got say like this isn't And I
didn't even end up pitching them because.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
I said, that's not the client I want to work with.
I want of you.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
I want to work with someone who we can collaborate,
that I can give the insight to. They're going to
take that insight and either I'm gonna implement it for
them or they're gonna implement it, and this and that
and I and so sometimes you know, it's also having
those moments where you're like okay, no or you know, client,
you're going through objection handling and like the money's just

(32:05):
not like they're not going to buy, and having that
realization in real time and go okay, they're not gonna
invest today, right, give them some space, you know, and
this and that and and.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
Be like okay, you know what it is.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
What it is like you said, feeling like you're the
bazillionaire and you don't need the money. Then you're coming
off of like Okay, I'm gonna move to the next person.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
I'm filling up.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
When you're ready, we'll you know, and this and that
and continue to touch base. But to those moments, like
you said, people feel the like emergency like I'm on
the I'm hitting the emergency buy and I just want
this sale, versus the like okay, you know do we're
gonna end it the way we're gonna end it today.
But that being said as well, you had mentioned earlier

(32:50):
hitting that sales plateau.

Speaker 2 (32:53):
What's one tactic.

Speaker 1 (32:54):
Cool shift someone could do and make this week if
they feel like they're hitting a sales plat to whether
it's they've gotten in their own way because they're doing
conversations and hearing certain things continuously and so they start backpedaling,
whether it's trying to grow, like, what is something we
can all try to implement?

Speaker 3 (33:16):
So here you go. That's I love this question, So
you have to go back. It's really good if you
have somebody.

Speaker 4 (33:24):
Could talk to that will that you could talk to honestly,
or they'll speak with you honestly, not just tell you
what you want to hear or.

Speaker 3 (33:31):
Not just be totally negative on everything.

Speaker 4 (33:35):
And for me, when I'm working with people in this area,
it's reminding helping them to remind themselves of what they
did to get to where they're at now.

Speaker 3 (33:47):
Why were they successful?

Speaker 4 (33:49):
And if you're a sports fan out there, or if
you're into dance or music or whatever it.

Speaker 3 (33:55):
Is, what do you do every year when a season starts, whatever?

Speaker 4 (34:00):
You start practicing the basic fundamentals of what you've been
doing your whole life.

Speaker 3 (34:06):
And why do you do that?

Speaker 4 (34:07):
Because people forget the fundamentals if you don't, and then
when you're not using the fundamentals, the tricky plays and
all those things, they don't work because you have to execute.

Speaker 3 (34:17):
On the fundamentals.

Speaker 4 (34:18):
So what to help people get over their plateau or
where they're stuck. And they're already successful in this way
and they're just trying to.

Speaker 3 (34:25):
Get someplace new. One is where they're trying to get.

Speaker 4 (34:29):
Could be new altogether, it's an entirely different approach where
what they did to get where they are. This is
a whole different audience. So like with one business that
I was helping to get into expand into law enforcement
as a client and.

Speaker 3 (34:44):
In those areas well, that's a much.

Speaker 4 (34:45):
Different approach than working with consumers at home. And it's
a much different approach than working with somebody in a
corporation and so helping them to learn what the language
is there and what you need to know, and then
how you present and what your expectations should be.

Speaker 3 (35:07):
These are the things that you get to do.

Speaker 4 (35:09):
But once is you have to remind people that you've
already been super successful.

Speaker 3 (35:13):
Do not change. It's just nuances.

Speaker 4 (35:18):
Some are bigger nuances than others, but it's nuances. But
it's what made you successful there will make you successful here.
And it sounds a little like mom and Apple pi Olivia,
but it really is not. People forget and then they
start losing confidence because they're keep hitting this wall that
they can't get through. And when you remind them that
they're really good at what they do, this is what happens.

(35:40):
And one time there was we live in a time
and I'm not making any political statements here in any
way because it's happened over many presidents in different times
with government shutdowns and things like that. But there's some
extreme stuff recently where the entire departments were out of business.
And there was this one business that I was referred

(36:04):
to or they were referred to me, and when I
got on with the owner, the owner was very upset,
very distraught, big time, out of control. She had been
in business for many years she had a large organization,
she was making millions of dollars off top line revenue
into her company and everything else, and then all at once,
to no fault of her own, she's completely out of

(36:24):
business forever, terrible, right, And so here's the story is
now she's trying to go into business again and get
started and not having any luck at all.

Speaker 3 (36:35):
She looked terrible on.

Speaker 4 (36:37):
The video and everything else that I decided I was
so concerned about her. I called her two days later
and had her pop onto a video call with me
because I just wanted to check and see how she is.
And she looked better and she was smiling, I said,
and it was such a different person, almost been recognized
to what happened. She said, you get me my confidence
back the yesterday I got a client. And it was

(36:58):
literally about that wasn't anything magic that I had done.
It was just help her to realize that that company
she built, what she did build, was because of her,
and nothing has changed there. It's just she's got to
start over.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
And it's one of those things too, as you used
in that example, and through speaking of like sometimes it's
also about really just being like okay, even though I've
hit you know, these walls right, these nose or I'm
just not ready to sign, which even for me, I
kind of started hitting. And then I had a moment

(37:38):
where I'd like six calls within a few days, back
to back, and they all ended up not tiying, being like, oh,
let's circle back, let's do this, and I'm like I
I didn't push any farther right, and I then took
a step and this was like and I was like,
why why is that continuously happening? Where in the conversation

(38:01):
Am I laying that sit and just allowing it to
be you know, just.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
Like oh, yeah, it is what it is.

Speaker 1 (38:08):
And then from that I, after that moment of realization,
get on the next call, don't do it, and it's like, okay,
send me the invoice and pay. And so sometimes it
also takes those moments, even when you've been doing it
for a while, of as you said, going back even
further in the conversation, like going back to the fundamentals,
but also giving yourself the grace to go like, okay,

(38:31):
I need a moment of reflection here, what's going on?
What why is this happening? Am I getting too comfortable
with people? Around the holidays, are planning for you know,
twenty twenty five, and then I didn't follow up is
it people?

Speaker 2 (38:45):
I gave people that because I.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
Knew they were going to be planning, and then it
just kind of rolled into the new year, where then
I was like, okay, like when you're ready, come back,
like what is the those things happening that are then
shifting how you're like?

Speaker 2 (39:00):
And you can play out call after calls as well.

Speaker 4 (39:04):
So one of the things that helps in these areas
is once again, we don't have time to die today
into all the asking question skills, but you definitely want
to be doing that. But I have to tell all
of you out there that if you're in a sales
call and you are not taking notes, then you are
not in.

Speaker 3 (39:24):
The sales call.

Speaker 4 (39:25):
Because I don't care how important this is to you
that you think you're going to remember the details, even
the ones that are not that.

Speaker 3 (39:36):
Complex, you are mistaken. You will not. And this is
what's important.

Speaker 4 (39:42):
It's not about the price, it's not about the features.
It's not about you know, how nice you look or
you don't look. It's not about any of that. It's
about what they tell you. And that's where you're going
to be closing on that. But if you don't have
those notes that you could easily refer back to, and
they're not in some kind.

Speaker 3 (40:02):
Of organized way. By the way, this is not some intuitive.

Speaker 4 (40:05):
Process and it's practice, practice, practice, practice.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
And.

Speaker 3 (40:12):
So you have to get this on.

Speaker 4 (40:15):
And by the way, when you're taking notes in a
sales meeting, even on video, your prospect knows that you're
taking notes, and that tells them that you are listening
to them.

Speaker 3 (40:29):
And so you.

Speaker 4 (40:30):
Know, if you have a pen or an electronic tablet
like I do, I always hold this up and I
show it say, he said, what, I'm looking down, I'm
taking notes, I'm paying attention. I'm not doing something else.
It's because they can't see you. If you're in person,
they could see you doing this. But so that is
a very positive thing to happen, because they are measuring
you all the time, consciously or subconsciously, and you could

(40:53):
be nowhere near the lowest price and get business all
of the time because they trust you, because because the
problem that you're trying to solve for them is really
important to them, and it could be a career maker,
a business maker, a life changer for them. So they're
not going to some people you can't help, but they're
you know, they're they're not going to say, oh, okay,

(41:15):
well I only want to be ten percent successful about
one hundred percent right.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
So yeah, and it's one of those things and I
look like I'm thinking too. Like for me personally, in
all my meetings, I always have a note taker going
because there might be something I miss right, something I
say that I don't observe, but like later on, whether
we start working together this or that that I can
go back and be like, oh wait, was that brought up?

Speaker 2 (41:41):
Let me check this. They might have said something, so
I use that. But I even like, even.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
If you're using that, going like okay, I will be
taking notes right because that consciously right and being there
and jotting something right.

Speaker 3 (41:56):
So the note takers are great, and I'll tell you
I'm a very big ad kick of them.

Speaker 4 (42:01):
There's always a warning, Please don't give everybody who's on
your email chain access to that recording. Automatically make that
a manual thing, because sometimes you'll say something that will
be misinterpreted. And Murphy's laws is always if something can
be happen negatively, it will And even if it wasn't

(42:22):
intended to be right.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
So but here's the thing.

Speaker 4 (42:24):
So when I'm in a business call, like with you, Olivia,
if we were on a call and I've got my
note taker, I've given my note taker and my AI
and name it's Nova, comes from my astronomy hobby. Everybody, so,
and I will tell people I said, oh, you know,
Nova's here taking notes for me. And then if you
say something, then I'll call it out. I'll say, hey, Nova,

(42:46):
Olivia said this, this is really important. Please remind me
of this. And the AI gets that, and the people
enjoy this. They will even talk to the NoteTaker sometime.
And it's a fantastic technology. Is a disruptive techechnology, and
when used right, it's just tremendous because you can never
take notes at the quality of those note taker, but

(43:06):
you can also use it to make it even better
to your points.

Speaker 3 (43:10):
Exactly what you're talking about here.

Speaker 4 (43:12):
So it's okay for you to interact with the NoteTaker
because once again the people are saying, boy, you really
got to somebody comes back, You're gonna say, yeah, you
didn't do it this year, You're a Nova, did it right?

Speaker 3 (43:22):
Yeah? I said, yeah, but I'm going to take credit.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
So what is the biggest thing when people are having
sales calls that you have found they miss asking that
additional question or kind of stop. Is it in the
objection handling? Is it throughout the process? Like where do

(43:45):
you find that most people, especially if they're solo entrepreneurs
or small business or just not comfortable doing sales calls.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
Where they kind of knock themselves up against the walls.

Speaker 3 (43:58):
That makes sense.

Speaker 4 (43:58):
Okay, so this is not sales one oh one everybody,
So don't feel bad if I say something that you
haven't heard or executed before. This is graduate level stuff.
But here it is because this is key. What Olivia
just asks us is key. It's they get hung up
on something that the customer was looking for, and the

(44:21):
customer says, oh, but your service, you guys don't do
this or this product. It doesn't have this particular function,
and then they go, well, yeah, I don't and then
they they're done.

Speaker 3 (44:39):
And where they.

Speaker 4 (44:40):
Miss, Olivia is they don't they say stop right there.

Speaker 3 (44:45):
They can say, okay, let.

Speaker 4 (44:47):
Me ask you this question first, acknowledge them as part
of the process. Acknowledge them, say you're right, it doesn't
or we don't in this way. What I would like
to know is what do you do with this that
you're asking about? And why do you do it? What
do you do? And just let them talk? Shut up?

(45:08):
I tell everybody shut up, because people don't remember me
saying be quiet and listen. They remember me telling them
shut up and let them talk, So shut up and
let them tell you everything. And then you're gonna then
it's all about curiosity, sincere curiosity. And when they come
back and they tell you, you know, well, this is what
we do, and you say, well, tell me why that's important.

(45:28):
So I understand. And it's not about necessarily going back
and having this service added to your bag of tricks
or having this capability put into your products. Learn what
it is they want to do, and you say, well,
tell me what it does and why that works for you,
And tell me if you were to enhance it, what

(45:48):
would you want it to do that it doesn't do today?
And you're taking notes because this is key. And then
when you say you say, oh, I get it, so
you're right, we don't do this. However, this is what
you want to accomplish. Is that correct?

Speaker 3 (46:03):
And what would that look like when it's accomplished. Oh
so this is fantastic. So what you really want.

Speaker 4 (46:08):
To do is you want to have this happen, And
they say that's right. So it's not about the button
that's not there or the service that's not in our
price book.

Speaker 3 (46:18):
It's about you.

Speaker 4 (46:19):
Want to do this, right, Well, what if I could
show you a way that'll do this and the thing
you're not able to do and it's going to be.

Speaker 3 (46:28):
Even more efficient. How fast would you like me to
show you this?

Speaker 4 (46:32):
And they'd come back, well, like right, well, tell me
what is it and you go into this. So no,
they could have had some They could have had that
business because they maybe just had a different way of
getting there and maybe even a better way of getting there.
But they never because just because they froze when the
person pointed out that you don't have the purple button.
You only have green and yellow, and the purple button

(46:58):
did way more, but they never got that far.

Speaker 3 (47:01):
So this is what's This is a difference.

Speaker 4 (47:04):
Maker of big times and whether it's an objection handling
or just during your regular questioning and you're finding out
what's important to them. Do not panic if there's something
you don't have and By the way, the thing that
they're talking about may have about out of one hundred
percent of what's important to them, it may be one percent.
And now you've focused ninety nine year percent of your
conversation on something it's only one percent important to them

(47:25):
because you got hung up. So there's all kinds of things,
and it goes on and on and on.

Speaker 1 (47:30):
Well, Phil, this has been a really impactful conversation and
I feel like we've covered different things and we can
keep talking about sales because as you mentioned, there's many
aspects we haven't covered today. But Phil, how could people
get in touch with you if they won't connect with you?

Speaker 3 (47:46):
Well, thank you very much for asking.

Speaker 4 (47:48):
So you could go to my website and go to
the contact me page, which is Phil had been there
CS dot com. That's b E N T H E
R E C isn't Consulting Essence, or just send me
an email. I love getting emails Phil at beIN THERECS
dot com.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
Well, thank you, Phil for all of your insight today.

Speaker 3 (48:10):
Noh, you're welcome.

Speaker 4 (48:11):
There's been I'm so thrilled that you asked me to
be here and accepted me to be here, and I
hope that I gave your listeners some tips that they
can implement today.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
I mean, you even gave me things to think about
and implement as I have sales calls later today. So
I will say yes you did and definitely a win.
And a few of those key takeaways from today's conversation
include high impact brings out the reasons behind the questions.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
So ask the high impact questions.

Speaker 1 (48:47):
Phil brought this up early on in the conversation, but
also throughout our conversations today. It isn't just about asking
a question, so asking about the right question and then
going deep on that asking the follow up questions.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
Like even just brought up an example he.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
Was using of like Okay, well why is that important?

Speaker 3 (49:05):
What do you do with that?

Speaker 1 (49:06):
If you could do something like this, what would that mean?
Because then that gives you clarity. As he said, don't
get hung up because you don't have the purple button.
You just have the green and the yellow and all
the other colors. Ask the right question, ask those high
impact questions that will help you make the sale but

(49:26):
also connect with people. And I also love how Phil
brought up emphasize that you're taking notes. There's a portion
of this even in examples that Phil mentioned today, that
is body language, that is, you know, understanding what you're doing.
He makes it a point to say, I'm gonna be
taking notes on this call today if you use a

(49:48):
note taker, emphasizing that so that they know you're paying attention,
that you're absorbing what they're telling you instead of just
thinking about the dollar signs that might in.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
Front of you.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
As well as it is marketing job to make it
is not marketing s job to make sales.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
It is their job to make leads.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
And I think a lot of times, and I'm so
happy Phil brought this up, that gets misunderstood.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
You know, even the term leads or lead generation, I.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
Think gets misunderstood is that will be a conversion into
a client.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
But what that really means is the exposure.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
You know, how many people are you touching that you
might have not touched before, how many people are coming
into your pipeline, and so when, as Phil mentioned, being
able to separate those two buckets are really important in
identifying is it a sales problem.

Speaker 2 (50:46):
Is it the marketing problem?

Speaker 1 (50:47):
And if it is a sales problem, what is the
sales problem?

Speaker 2 (50:52):
Is it your pipeline of doing the follow ups?

Speaker 1 (50:55):
Like Phil said, is it a general manager right and
a people problem? What is that problem? And then is
it yourself? Are you getting in your own way?

Speaker 2 (51:04):
During the conversations as well as what did you do
to get where you are?

Speaker 1 (51:09):
I love how Phil brought that up as a center
point in telling yourself what are you good at?

Speaker 2 (51:17):
You know, where have you come from? What are you doing?

Speaker 1 (51:21):
And getting that relaxed mindset to be able to show
up in a powerful way to that sales call. And last,
but not least, and this is a challenge I'm going
to leave all of you with as well today keep
practicing the fundamentals. I'm going to, you know, go back
to some of those fundamentals. Even today, I was like, okay,
you know what, I'm going to start going back and

(51:43):
practicing those so that they don't get out of practice
and I end up, you know, sabotaging something consciously or
unconsciously by having those in your back pocket all the time.
This was a great episode with our top notch guest
Phil white Bloom.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
Thank you for listening and have a successful lif