E970 Ask Nick - My Mom Got Catfished - Alkebulan Love Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 4 (01:27):
You're crazy.

Speaker 5 (01:38):
How's it going?

Speaker 6 (01:39):
Hi?

Speaker 7 (01:40):
And my name's Kim. I'm thirty nine years old and
I need help. My mom is being catfished online and
I can't get her to.

Speaker 6 (01:49):
Listen to me.

Speaker 5 (01:49):
It's tough. Who does she think she's in love with?

Speaker 7 (01:53):
It's an actor from one of those like raunchy romance
type shows that is like subscribe based on Facebook.

Speaker 5 (02:02):
Oh okay, I'm not from Is it like a known
actor like that they're pretending to be.

Speaker 7 (02:06):
Yeah, his name is okay, a million percent, it's not.

Speaker 5 (02:10):
Yeah, Okay, what conversations have you had with your mom?

Speaker 6 (02:16):
Okay?

Speaker 7 (02:16):
So first of all, it's also hard because she's only
confiding in me.

Speaker 6 (02:21):
You know, I've got a.

Speaker 7 (02:22):
Brother or sister, and we're close. She's married to my
dad for over thirty five years. You know, we're a
close family. It's like totally weird. And I don't know
why she's only told me this, but she just called
me one day a few weeks ago and was like
very tih about it, and she was like, I think
only you could understand this, And I don't know. She

(02:44):
loops me in with this type of behavior.

Speaker 6 (02:47):
She's no, and.

Speaker 5 (02:48):
Then she's no longer married to your dad, No, she is.
She's still married.

Speaker 6 (02:52):
She is, yeah, married like over thirty five years.

Speaker 7 (02:55):
Yeah, yeah, which is like an extra element of to.

Speaker 5 (03:00):
Your mom's like having an affair with a catfish.

Speaker 7 (03:04):
Yeah, okay, like yeah, And so she starts to tell
me the story about how she watches these shows. She's
gotten like hooked on these shows.

Speaker 6 (03:13):
I should say. My mom has addictive personality disorder.

Speaker 7 (03:17):
It started when I was a kid with alcohol, and
then she got clean off that, and then she turned
to other substances that she turned to gambling, She turned
to Sons of Anarchy.

Speaker 6 (03:28):
For a while.

Speaker 7 (03:29):
That was her first kind of like obsession with the
guy from that. Then that turned to Pete Davidson for
a while, and then she's gotten.

Speaker 6 (03:35):
Obsessed with a lot of actors.

Speaker 7 (03:38):
Turned into bad Buddy, turned into like and she goes
down these like it's so weird if you I mean,
like my mom, it's very strange who she becomes obsessed with.
But I guess it's this addictive side of her. And
now she found this show that you have to subscribe to,
which I also don't know is if that's like a

(03:58):
scam or not the type of subscribe it is. But
she found this guy and she thinks that she found
his private messaging, which is not him. I've done my research.
There's like thirty pages claiming to be this guy at least,
so lots of impostors. And if you go to these people,
you know, all these thirty pages of this guy, they

(04:20):
all have like, you know, eleven friends, and the friends
are all you know, much older women that are clearly
the you know, the victims.

Speaker 6 (04:27):
That go for this guy.

Speaker 5 (04:29):
So have you confronted your mom yet or have you
just listened at this point?

Speaker 7 (04:35):
Well, I listened at first. And it's really tricky to
talk to her because she's got a lot of like
personality kind of issues. You know, she's like really tough,
like bipolar and narcissistic personality disorder.

Speaker 6 (04:48):
And I was like raised with like that, so I've.

Speaker 7 (04:52):
Always been walking on eggshells with her. So I'm always
really careful not to like have arguments with her. And
she was clearly divulging some heavy stuff with me, so
I let her talk. It was really I couldn't. I
couldn't let it go. So I mean, I said, I
don't think you're talking to him. My first question was,
of course, did you give him money?

Speaker 5 (05:13):
And she said, no, that doesn't happen for a while, right.

Speaker 7 (05:17):
I did later find out that he that he asked,
and I mean things progressed after I sent you the email,
which we can get to. But yeah, so she said,
I talked to him all day every day. He texts
me at like three in the morning, and I'm like, see,
that doesn't happen. The guy is thirty five years old,
like the real guy, thirty five something like that, married
with two kids.

Speaker 5 (05:38):
Yeah, and I'm sure his story when she asked if
or if she asked, it will be like, that's just
for show, that's his business. My manager team makes me
do that. It's like, I know this because people have
pretended to be me and it's a real kind of
shitty situation. Yeah, and I've had people, Yeah I think
they were in relationships with me and it sucks. And yeah,

(06:01):
it's it's like kind of an epidemical Listen, your mom's
being a taken advantage of she's older, lonely, whatever, you know,
And this what more than anything, it doesn't really matter
who's behind the screen. She has someone who she's building
a relationship with, who makes her feel seen in her
and gives her time, and she looks forward to these
random three am messages that she gets and things like that. Right,

(06:25):
you know, you have to under like understand that when
you confront her, that's what you're fighting against. Trying to
take something that she's for the first time in a
while has meaning that being said. You know, I wouldn't
even say I don't think I would just say, this
is not a real person, it's you you're being scammed,
you do have to try to empathize with like, I
get why it's fun, you know, because like a lot

(06:45):
of a lot of the people in your mom's position,
and listen, Like your mom, you know, older, has some
personality disorders. She sounds like real susceptible being a victim.
But there are a lot of like young cape, you know,
seemingly normal people like your age who also get scammed
by these people. And I think it all comes from

(07:06):
a place of loneliness. One of the people who thought
they were in a relationship with me when they she
like confronted me and it was like a kind of
a scary, uncomfortable situation, and she kept telling me I'm
not crazy, I'm not crazy, and it was sad. That
was like, listen, I know you're not crazy, but I
need you to recognize that what you're doing in this
moment is because she had like showed up at my house,

(07:27):
and that in itself is a crazy act, you know, right,
So like your mom's not going to give up easily.
In my experience, what have you what have you thought
about telling your dad?

Speaker 7 (07:40):
So what happened was, you know, I went I've got
you know, I went with my family, my husband and
my kids to visit them for July fourth, and noticed
I saw her texting with him and she downloaded like
a weird app that he had her download to like
text with, and I noticed all day every day they

(08:01):
were talking and it was really upsetting to me. And
when I put my kids to bed, I came downstairs
and I walked in to that my dad confronting her.
So he had he had found out because of some charge,
some charges because he was you know, watching you know,
their finances, and I think the charges that were coming through,

(08:25):
which they won't you know, I don't know how much.
I think it was hundreds though it was through this
like subscription scam and also for these like shows and
they are also like, oh, it's so cringe because they're
so wrong. She oh it's anyway, I mean, let her live, right,
but wow, but it's a lot of money. And then

(08:46):
some other types of scams that he was having her
pay for. So I walked in on the confrontation and
I was able then to well, it was awkward. I
kind of walked away from it, but they both saw me,
so when they said operated, I was able to talk
to them one by one separately. It was a very
heavy evening for me. But I spoke to my dad
first and I was like, are you okay?

Speaker 6 (09:10):
And what is going on?

Speaker 7 (09:11):
And I let him talk and he was really upset
and was like, maybe I should uh, maybe I should go.

Speaker 6 (09:18):
Find a motel until she figures this out. I don't know.

Speaker 7 (09:21):
I don't know what she's looking for. I don't know,
I mean, how she doesn't see this and you know,
and I got to go take all of her devices
now to the Apple store and get all this wiped
off and you know, try to get these charges reversed.
And he was just like livid. So I was just
trying to calm him down, and then I worked on
my mom.

Speaker 8 (09:38):
Next.

Speaker 6 (09:39):
Embarrassment on her is not pretty well.

Speaker 5 (09:42):
It's good. It's good that your dad knows who cares?
I mean, I was.

Speaker 7 (09:46):
I was definitely relieved that I walked in on that,
as awkward as it was, because it allowed for me
to try to mediate a little bit, you know, because
that was one bit of it that was extra hard.
Was like being the only one no in the family.

Speaker 5 (10:01):
You know, Yeah, you said that your mom embarrassed is
not a good situation. What do you mean, but I mean,
I mean I can guess, but well.

Speaker 7 (10:09):
Just like with with her type of like a mood disorders,
like embarrassment on her is like even worse than just
pure anger or anything else. Like the way that she
acts if she's embarrassed is just like very icy and
like very hard to deal with.

Speaker 5 (10:27):
What is what is your dad gonna do about this?
I honestly think your your energy is better focused on
your dad and making sure that one he is okay
and that he feels supported and like you and your
dad if he needs help, you know, what do we
do about mom? So to speak? I don't know if
this is enough for your dad to want to like

(10:48):
think about his relationship with his wife. I don't know.
I'm guessing after this many years of marriage, like something
like this isn't going to like make him file for divorce,
you know. And then obviously there's your mom's mental health
to consider. But your mom is you know, a at
danger and be financially putting your dad at danger as well,
So like your dad does need to make I think
drastic steps to like make sure that your mom, who

(11:11):
let's assume can't be trusted when it comes to like
is she actually going to engage with this man or not?
And he just has to do everything. He has to
do everything possible to try to stop her, right, and
then you have to try to deal with mom however,
you guys, try to deal with her, you know. But
in my experience, she is not gonna stop easily. And

(11:33):
again just from an empathetics point of view, it is
because like she just feels this is probably the most
exciting thing that's happened to her in.

Speaker 7 (11:41):
A while, I know, And she's gonna just also be
onto something else as well. She's going to be looking
for the next fix, you know. So I mean there's
going to be a void when this is all over,
you know.

Speaker 6 (11:52):
But I did.

Speaker 5 (11:53):
I did tell her try to get into like a
messy Reddit blog with a bunch of like other women
who have similar interest in the smut that she's reading.
I mean she can do that. I mean that can
has you know, at least she's not getting catfished by
someone trying to steal her money and having an emotional
relationship with someone who's not her husband. I mean, like,
if it's about channeling your mom's like energy, there are

(12:16):
communities online that while you know, we can argue whether
they're toxic or they have their own issues, you know,
because most of those things do. But that's still a
better trade off than yeah, what she's doing now.

Speaker 7 (12:31):
They have a really really really complicated relationship my parents,
and her addictions are really extremely deep, so it's I
don't know, it's really complicated. But I will say just
hours after she initially told me, it took me just
seconds to find hard proof that it wasn't obviously him,
and I showed it to her immediately, And so I

(12:54):
did tell my dad, Like one of the first things
I said when I sat down with him was I'm
glad that you know that we can talk about this,
but I want to tell you that I did. You know,
I did tell her several times it wasn't him.

Speaker 6 (13:05):
I showed her. I showed her, and.

Speaker 7 (13:06):
I was trying to, you know, and she wasn't listening
and then and I was just kind of like desperately
trying to tell my dad, like I tried for you.

Speaker 6 (13:13):
I tried.

Speaker 5 (13:14):
I'm pretty sure I recently saw a magazine cover with
Keanu Reeves on it, and I don't know, like you
search Keanu Reeves ghost catfishing, you'll probably find it. So
maybe it was a New York Times, I don't know,
Maybe it was a Time. I don't know who did it,
but it was it was about this whole situation. It
was about this like scamming industry of people online pretending
to be celebrities and things like that, and how they're

(13:36):
stealing money. Maybe you can one educate yourself and become
familiar with this thing that is like shockingly common and
prevalent right now. Maybe it's something you can show your
mom being like this is this is a thing, like
you were just being scammed, right. What you don't want
to do is tell your mom that a guy like
him would never talk to a woman like her. I
think you want to stay away from messaging like that.

(13:58):
That's just going to be hurtful. It's going to want
to prove you wrong. You know what I'm saying. It's
just that is not going to get her. I'm sure
you know I would stop saying it if you said it. Okay,
that is not going to make her do what you
want to do, all right, I did say it, I understand,
But it's just more like this again, she is a victim.

(14:20):
She is a victim here of a situation and she
just has to see that like she is, if she
wants to feel seen, maybe she can find a community
in other women who or people who have been scammed.
But like she needs to see that this is a thing,
that that this is a prevalent problem, that she's not
the only one being scammed. She needs to see that,
like she needs to see it for what it is

(14:41):
and not you know, like you don't and not be
convinced that, you know, someone as young as handsome as
this actor would actually date someone like your mom, right, And.

Speaker 7 (14:50):
You know he told her several times how he was
leaving his wife. You know, like the whole thing, the whole,
the whole thing is she just was. It was hard
to see how vulnerable she was. I mean it was
really like a mental trip for me. Like, you know,
it was really hard to see her fall so easily
for something like this.

Speaker 5 (15:09):
You know, Yeah, everyone's lonely, as hard daughter to see
that people are lonely. You know, when we're lonely, we
want connection. And the internet offers a lot of opportunities
for people who are scamming people, people who are looking
for some kind of connection and and and and to
not feel lonely. It comes from that place. So I

(15:32):
think you, just you and your dad have to give
your mom grace when it comes to unders like to
understand the why your mom did this or how this
could happen. That's the why. So that's pretty simple to
figure out. And now it's trying to get your mom
to a place where she accepts reality and and stops
putting herself and your dad at risk. And I think
you just have to, like again, I would try to

(15:53):
find that article. I would do some research on this,
show her that this is a prevalent problem of which
she is of many victims. And I think that's a
better way of getting through to her than trying to
make her feel like, why can't she enjoy this very
fun and exciting thing that's never happened to her and
finally has happened to her, And why can't you just

(16:16):
let her be happy? Andy by telling her she's not
And you're trying to do that by telling her she's
not good enough. It's definitely not the way to go
about it.

Speaker 7 (16:26):
No, for sure, Yeah that's that's true. And then after,
like I said, after all of all of this fades,
I got to talk to my dad about the concern
about the moment that we've created this void. Now there's
now going to be a void where she spent all
the time with this guy. She's going to be looking
for her next addiction. And that's that's just like you

(16:48):
know her pattern too. So even I don't.

Speaker 5 (16:52):
Know about your parents' marriage, but like, again, your mom
does feel lonely. I'm not trying to put this all
on your dad or anything. And I'm sure there's a
lot of you know, years of his treating your mom's
mental health problems, but like he needs to figure out
how he can still be a husband to his wife
and figure out that connection or like otherwise or free
himself from ultimately as a lifetime being a caretaker of

(17:14):
someone who is just you know, I don't know, putting
him at risk. It's a tough situation. I'm really sorry
your family's going through this. It sucks.

Speaker 7 (17:24):
Did you ever go on your platforms and like announce
like about impostors or anything like? Did you have to
go that far about the people who were trying to
be you or pretending to know?

Speaker 5 (17:34):
I mean, I think I one time I posted that,
but it that doesn't really seem to go anywhere, because again,
the people that they're faking out aren't looking for that.
And then again, I'm sure like these people have built
in excuses and talk tracks of like why when they say, oh,
like you know, they would say like that the person

(17:55):
pretending to be me would say that Nally's like a
fake girlfriend, and that like I'm being held hostage by
my management team, and like they talk about like Hollywood
and the entertainment industry is this like spooky thing. And
for people who like don't have a glimpse into I
don't know what feels like a fantasy in terms of
Hollywood and celebrity and being on TV or social media,

(18:17):
it all seems kind of fantastical and believable for people
who really know nothing about that. And it also like, yeah,
I guess maybe that just sounds great. I never thought
about that, you know, it's and so yeah, I never
did that because again, those like that's not the people
I'm reaching by posting that, right, you know, And if
they saw it, they would go back to the person

(18:38):
pretending to be me or you know, and say and
they would have some bullshit reason to you, And I
sounds crazy. But for the person who wants to believe them, says,
oh yeah, I guess, okay, sure, all right, it's still
like in line, it's it's at least consistent with their
bullshit story, which is that like everything that I post
on social is a lie, and everything they're being told

(19:00):
by this person is the real truth. And and he
in the pert you know, it's like he's probably saying,
I'm just so glad I can trust you and finally
open up to you, and you know, I'm just like stuck,
and and that's why he needs money, you know, the
person who like online projects as someone who is financially
secure and wealthy or whatever, which is why these people

(19:22):
still are able to ask people like your mom for money,
you know, because they they they over time craft this
very crazy narrative. It's all very consistent. But again, I
if I I would do some research on this, it's
it's pretty prevalent and there's a lot of information out
there about how how it all works.

Speaker 7 (19:41):
Yeah, because she doesn't really understand social media and all
these platforms and stuff, so she's like very susceptible. Like
we see on all of the phony platforms that this
guy has, it's all older women and they don't know
what they're doing.

Speaker 6 (19:54):
You know, a lot of them don't.

Speaker 5 (19:55):
Well really, yeah, they understand their audience, right, Like they
understand their audience, you know, they under stand That's why
they're infiltrating this kind of like rom com smut, you know, girl,
Like yeah, know, these women who are again like already
in this group are people who are looking for fantasy, right,
They're looking to disconnect from their reality and just stream
and have some fun a little bit. And then in

(20:16):
that group you have these predators who are trying to
find the most susceptible to say actually, like, let's let's
take this fantasy a step.

Speaker 7 (20:26):
Further, right, So, now what another question I had for
you is, like, it's do I keep this from my
siblings who I'm very close with?

Speaker 6 (20:38):
Like, do I keep this secret? You know I've shared
with my husband.

Speaker 5 (20:43):
You know, I would talk to your dad. I would
talk to your dad first and make sure that he's
okay with it. But I would encourage your dad and
you to be as transparent with everyone as possible, not
for the purpose of embarrassing your mom, but like everyone,
just listen. If your mom is as struggling as much
as she is, it's all hands on deck. Everyone needs

(21:04):
to come together to like, you know, kind of like
have an intervention, to like very support your mom, you know,
cause it's tough for you to do this on your own.

Speaker 7 (21:16):
And yeah, we've done interventions with her.

Speaker 5 (21:19):
Sure, you know, and it is your mom. So it's like,
if we're trying to solve the problem, it's a lot
easier solved with everyone coming together, rather than you and
your dad feeling like you're on an island trying to
navigate a very difficult situation that many people have a
hard time navigating. Listen, I have people in I guess
kind of my circle, friends of loved ones who are

(21:42):
being catfished, who are still being catfished, who don't want
to listen to reason. And I've had you know, and
I have incredible like and someone like me still can't
get through to them. So it's a tough situation.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
Wow.

Speaker 7 (21:55):
Yeah, I mean I guess it's like so super prevalent.

Speaker 5 (21:58):
I didn't think I even had, like, I even had
Neve make this person a video and say you're being
catfish and still didn't work. I love him. Yeah, listen,
it's it's it's it's a it's very prevalent and I
think you need to open your mom's eyes into what
is literally an industry of scam. Yeah, and let her

(22:22):
know that your mom is part of this. She's a
victim of a prevalent scam.

Speaker 7 (22:27):
So I have to care for them, care for my
parents both in separate ways individually. They both have separate
needs here.

Speaker 6 (22:34):
That it's just a lot on my shoulders. But I
love them, and I got to do this.

Speaker 7 (22:38):
Yeah, it's just, you know, all of a sudden, it's
just kind of a lot on my shoulders.

Speaker 5 (22:41):
What's your relationship with your siblings.

Speaker 7 (22:43):
I'm really close with my sister. We live in the
same town. We both have, you know, three kids, and
work and talk every day.

Speaker 6 (22:53):
So it's been hard to keep it from her.

Speaker 5 (22:55):
What's the reason and for keeping it from her.

Speaker 7 (22:58):
She's not currently speaking to my parents. It's more so
they are not speaking with her. We have like some
broken family syndrome stuff, you know. So it's just momentarily
it kind of changes month to month. It's just right now,
not speaking and I try, I try to not get
in like get.

Speaker 6 (23:15):
I don't know, I just try not to get in
between things.

Speaker 7 (23:18):
So I'm close with her regardless, But I just was
afraid if I told her, and then she said something
that I'd get in trouble.

Speaker 6 (23:27):
It's so ridiculous.

Speaker 7 (23:28):
I'm like thirty nine years old, but we still we
were raised, you know, with an alcoholic mom, and there
was a certain you know, household vibe and we kind
of grew up with that and still have that mentality.

Speaker 5 (23:40):
And would I would invest your as much energy as
you can in your siblings and your sister, and I
think that's step one, and certainly I'm not you know,
definitely don't abandon your parents but they're do whatever you can,
but like you know, it's not your job to save
your parents from themselves. You can do as much as
you can. You can certainly try, but you know, protect

(24:00):
the relationships that are the most meaningful and and the
ones that like need you, you know, And you know,
it sounds like your sister probably needs you and is
willing to like accept that relationship for what it is,
and your mom is you know, your mom.

Speaker 6 (24:19):
Yeah, that's that's true.

Speaker 7 (24:20):
I just have to I mean, I was dodging phone
calls from my mom like during the height of it,
just you know, the other week, because I I was
feeling like it was too much, the confiding in me,
and I was I didn't want to be too hard
on her, and like you you acknowledge you said to
me like I was saying the wrong things that I
kind of knew I was saying the wrong things, like

(24:42):
you know.

Speaker 6 (24:42):
Why would a guy like him and you know, be
reaching out And she was.

Speaker 7 (24:46):
Like, you could say it, you could say it what
to someone like me? And I felt really bad. I
knew I was going to the wrong places, so I
needed I was started to just like not answer her calls. So, yeah,
I don't want to do the wrong I don't want
to do the wrong thing by anyone.

Speaker 5 (25:01):
When I do. I think if I were you, I
would be direct. I would tell your mom what's going on.
It's just you have to do it without being mean.
And you always have to like understand that she is
struggling mentally to see reality. And I wouldn't plan it
into her delusion and I wouldn't avoid her. But I
also just wouldn't be mean about.

Speaker 7 (25:20):
It, right, No, of course. I mean I looked him
up in the first I was like, hey, you know what,
you got good taste? Like I tried to lighten it
up a little bit. I had no idea who the
guy was. I was like, okay, I see it, mom,
Like I tried to be cute sy.

Speaker 5 (25:33):
With her a little bit. It's a tough situation, you know.

Speaker 6 (25:36):
It's tough. Yeah, it was really tough to see her
fall like that so easily.

Speaker 5 (25:41):
So again, it's it's not that it's not that surprising.
It's again, she's she's part of a community of escapism.
She found that in this community of like these rom
com novels and fantasy and smut whatever, and again, like
it's predators nowhere to find their prey. You know. You know,

(26:04):
that's make sure that you can have empathy. You know.
It's like, it's not it's this is not again, not
uncommon and not all too surprising. It's just sad that
your mom, you know, is a part of it. But yeah,
I would try to enlighten her on how common this is.

Speaker 6 (26:21):
That's a good idea, because I think people in her shoes, yeah,
is okay.

Speaker 5 (26:25):
The people in her shoes just have a hard time
thinking why would any It's like, why would anyone pretend
to be anyone else? Like, as crazy as we think
it is for people to believe it, they have convinced
themselves it's real because they're just like what I mean,
it's so crazy, it must be true.

Speaker 6 (26:39):
That's what she said.

Speaker 7 (26:40):
She was like, well, why would you do that?

Speaker 6 (26:42):
Why?

Speaker 7 (26:43):
Why wouldn't be him? It was just like so simple
to her, like she wouldn't understand that. So that the
perfect prey, the perfect audience, you know, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (26:51):
Forget it, you know, it's forgetting about. Like if you
want to say things that are direct and reasonable, it's
just like, he's got a wife, he's got a kid's
he's why is he asking for you for money? Like
it's not that he if he wants to date you,
then he wants to date you, But like, why what
is he doing at three in the morning? That's this
is odd behavior. This is not normal behavior from someone
who presents is very normal online, Like that's not matching

(27:12):
up mom, you know. But again, the bigger thing is
just getting her to see how prevalent this is. And
then if you want to, like ask her questions about
like things that aren't making sense, just stay away from
the whole, Like it doesn't make sense because he wouldn't
be attracted to you. It doesn't make sense for a
lot more other reasons.

Speaker 7 (27:31):
When you were talking to your family member or friend
who you said you can't reason with, did you try
that tactic, because like the denial though sometimes pushed back.

Speaker 5 (27:41):
I'm not that close with this person, so it's like
it was I, you know, they weren't exactly asking for
my help, so I had to tread very lightly. They
were resistant to it, you know, but well.

Speaker 7 (27:54):
Because I said, you know, three in the morning is
even more inappropriate for just any wanted it any reason.
And she said, well, you know, he's in La so
we're in New York. So she's like, so that's that's midnight.
That's not that crazy. And I said, no, midnight's still crazy.
And she said, well, but you know he gets off
movie sets at mid so she's kept on making it
makes sense. I guess.

Speaker 5 (28:14):
So yah, you know the that you're not going to
get very far with that. It's just really it comes
down to the money thing. And yeah, and also like
it's twenty twenty five. Clearly he hasn't she hasn't faced
time with him, Like why you know you've never seen
this person? You should like, you know, hey, mom dating
you know, like you don't know this person you've never

(28:36):
seen them.

Speaker 7 (28:37):
I saw her texts with him when when I was
there on our holiday, and I said she was talking
to him all day every day. I mean, it was
upsetting to me because I was there with my with
my three kids and we were there to see them
and visit, and I saw her on her phone. So
I took my camera out on my phone and I
zoomed in to kind of like try to like read

(28:59):
her texts.

Speaker 6 (29:00):
I don't know whatever.

Speaker 7 (29:01):
I did that because I was curious, and I saw
her begging him to you know, he was saying, I
got to talk to you. I got to talk to
He was trying to keep her on the line, keep
talking to her. I got to talk to you later.

Speaker 6 (29:12):
It's important.

Speaker 7 (29:13):
And she was like, you're making me nervous. Well can
it be a phone call? Can I can we FaceTime?
And he was like, you know, I can't do that.
And she kept begging throughout the day.

Speaker 5 (29:21):
And that's that's the thing you land on. That's the
thing you stick with. It's just like, you know, it's
not that it's not that she's too old, it's not
that like it's three in the morning. It's just that, like,
why can't he talk to you? And again like enlighten
her about the scam. Again, it's it's yeah, it's very consistent.
You know, there is a there's a playbook that these

(29:42):
people have and it's always the same version or always
the same story with different characters. And so your mom
should try to talk to other people and she will
find and if she were to do that, she would
find that like, oh, I'm dating Keanu Reeves and he's
that sounds just like my relationship, you know, and all

(30:03):
the things they say. You know, seriously, that's the best scary,
that's the best way you can try to get your
mom to see reality. It's not trying to convince her
of these little semantic things of like why this person
that you've never met wouldn't operate the way that she's
saying he operates. It's just you know, you're right, all right.

Speaker 6 (30:26):
Yeah, No, you're right.

Speaker 5 (30:28):
Okay, you're right.

Speaker 7 (30:29):
It's scary, scary, how how prevalent it is, and that
they that they've done it to you too.

Speaker 6 (30:33):
I'm sorry to hear that.

Speaker 5 (30:35):
No, Internet is it's a dangerous place. Keep us posted
with certainly love an update in the future about how
things are playing out one way or the other. And
thank you for your time. Thank you so much that
I'll talk to her. All right, But this is an
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Speaker 5 (33:52):
How's it going good?

Speaker 8 (33:53):
How are you good?

Speaker 5 (33:54):
What's your name?

Speaker 8 (33:55):
My name is Claire. I'm twenty four and I just
stump my boyfriend of one month, and I'm wondering if
I did the right thing.

Speaker 5 (34:02):
Okay, why are you questioning your decision?

Speaker 8 (34:05):
He was pretty much the only guy that I had
met who treated me very very well, and I would
say the way that I would expect to be treated
and so that part of things was great. But then
in terms of who he was and some lifestyle I
guess concerns that I had, I didn't think we'd be

(34:27):
like the right match in the long run.

Speaker 5 (34:30):
Tell me about some of those concerns.

Speaker 8 (34:32):
So the first one was definitely lifestyle. I'm someone who
is a very active person. I try to take care
of myself, watched what I eat within reason, like I
still like to have pizza and whatnot. But I just air.
I guess when we started dating, I was kind of

(34:52):
under the impression that that was something that like he
was mindful of as well. Like he kind said that
he liked exercising and it was a part of his routine.
And I'm not saying that I need someone to be
like a massive gym rad and like run half marathons.
It more so was I noticed that he was coming

(35:13):
home from work and he was smoking. He smoked weed.
He was coming home from work and smoking weeds immediately
after work and then also before bed, and then sometimes
another time like in there, I knew he smoked, but
again I was under the impression it was only before

(35:34):
bed to help him sleep. So I noticed that, And
then I noticed he was eating quite a bit of
junk food. A lot of money was getting spent on
like uber eats, ordering out. So that was just one
area that I did bring up to him, and I mentioned,
you know, like his thoughts around kind of his eating

(35:56):
and if he is looking to get back into exercising.

Speaker 5 (36:00):
He's twenty five, and how does he look like does
he look like someone who has been eating unhealthy for
a long period time and hasn't worked out, or is
he like in generally good shape. But you just noticed
after a month of dating them that is, yeah, you
had some unhealthy habits that could lead to bigger issues

(36:21):
in the future.

Speaker 8 (36:22):
Yeah, he was in good shape. He would comment a
lot about changes that he had seen in his body
and how he wasn't happy with it. Okay, I was
like never making comments about that, but I just said
to him, like, if you want to work out together
or whatnot, like I'm more than happy to do that
with you. But it just what I'm saying is I

(36:44):
don't think it was really like something top of mind
for him like it is for me. And we were
just kind of different in that sense.

Speaker 5 (36:51):
Okay, So what else?

Speaker 8 (36:53):
That was one area lifestyle. The other area was with
I don't want to say, like temper, but he had
a lot of conflict in his life and that was
a pretty big red flag for me. So from the
time we started dating, when we got formally into the relationship,

(37:14):
it was like, I guess, two months total of being
together or knowing him, And first month I was like
meeting the people in his life and didn't see like
too many red flags. But I knew that he had
a pretty I guess intense family dynamic. His mom had
left his dad, and his biological dad was no longer

(37:35):
in his life. There was a pretty tumultuous like upbringing there. Anyways,
I don't want to get into his whole family dynamics.

Speaker 5 (37:43):
So to sum up, if I'm hearing this accurately, you
learned about some essentially like family baggage and then you
noticed some small behaviors in him that, coupled with understanding
his family baggage, kind of made you concerned about his potential. Yes, okay,
what else?

Speaker 8 (38:01):
Yes? So, well, from that conflict with his family, I
saw a really big ego and that was one of
the things, honestly that was like the kicker for me
that completely turned me off.

Speaker 5 (38:16):
So can you can you tell me that story in
terms of.

Speaker 8 (38:20):
Like an example. Yeah, So he had gotten into a
pretty big fight with his brother around this house that
they own. The house his brother owns us in his name.

Speaker 5 (38:35):
In his name.

Speaker 8 (38:36):
The house is in the brother's name, gotcha, okay, which
is not my ex boyfriend.

Speaker 5 (38:41):
Okay.

Speaker 8 (38:42):
So my ex boyfriend was telling him to do something
in relation to the plumbing because that's what he did
for work, pretty much. I guess the brother didn't listen.
And I wasn't there when the fight happened, but when
I got there, there was beer thrown everywhere. His mom

(39:02):
was like pretty much in distress's she dealt with some
like domestic violence, and so any type of arguing and
whatnot seems to really obviously trigger her. And so after
that fight happened, I talked to him about it to
try to understand, and he just immediately was blowing up.

(39:24):
He pretty much was saying, fuck him, he owes me everything.
I want nothing to do with him. He's dead to
me if he thinks that he cannot listen to me
and not include me in decisions, like he's an idiot.
And he was pretty heated, and I understood like why
he was heated, But again I didn't see the whole
context of the fight, but I did see the argument

(39:46):
carry on for three weeks after okay, and I pretty
much said to him, I was like, do you want
to figure out like this relationship with your brother, Like
do you want your money back? Like he just kept complaining, complaining,
complaining about it, and his whole mentality was like fuck him,

(40:08):
You're dead to me. And for me, that's a really
hard pill to swallow because that is just not how
I grew up with family or friends, anything of that nature.
So then I noticed that the fight started carrying over
with his parents. He was going to his parents saying like,
you need to tell my brother to text me back,

(40:31):
like you guys are always on his side.

Speaker 5 (40:33):
I thought he was dead to him already.

Speaker 8 (40:36):
Well yeah, apparently, So then he started fighting with his
parents about this because I guess he felt like no
one was really on his side. And I was talking
to him on a different day. We were talking about
like kids and family and stuff, like a general conversation,
not saying like we are having them type of thing,

(40:58):
and he said to me, like, one thing I want
you to know is that if we have children, like
my family's not going to be around it in the picture,
Like I don't want them there and I don't want
their help and I said to him, well, that is
not something that I want for my future, Like I
think it is a blessing to have like family around

(41:20):
who can support and help you in that case, And
to me, it just seemed like I don't want to
create this like broken home dynamic like and have that
mentality before I even bring children like into the world.
So it was just more so a bigger picture of
like how is it so easy for you to just
want to like cut a chord with people when conflict happens,

(41:44):
when you haven't even tried to talk something out, have
a conversation. It just was like zero to one hundred,
like he's my brother, and then the next day, no,
he's not my brother. I want no part of it.

Speaker 5 (41:56):
Is he the oldest, youngest your ex? Where is the
fall in line? Here? He is the he was the middle, Okay,
anything else?

Speaker 8 (42:06):
I guess I just noticed too, like when we were
around his friends, the ego was there, Like I didn't
even really see a friendship. It was like they were
all just like trying to one up each other's careers
and also talk about money and talk about like jet
skis and like cottage stuff that they were like wanting
to buy. But it didn't seem like friendship to me

(42:28):
at all.

Speaker 5 (42:29):
And that's his kind of twenty five year old.

Speaker 8 (42:31):
Men though, I guess, like I don't know, yeah, maybe.

Speaker 5 (42:34):
I mean, yeah, sure's let's uh what about what did
you like about him? You mentioned when you first called
that he's treated you in a way that honestly haven't
been treated Like, can you explain that to me?

Speaker 8 (42:47):
Yeah, Like he was the first person who I dated
who was beyond considerate. I have like been in previous
relationships where that that power dynamic is usually I'm used to.
I think the male having more of a I don't know,
i'll hold over me. I guess I don't like to
frame it like that, but the power dynamic was off

(43:10):
and he was like beyond considerate. Whether it was it
might sound ridiculous, but like grabbing my phone plugging it
in for me at night, or I know, if I
was on the side of the road and like blew attire,
he would be coming there, no problem. If I had
said to him I need a new kidney or something,

(43:31):
he would be like, Okay, no worries, like we're gonna
get it done right now. I'll give you my kidney
like he was just very considerate in the way that
he talked about our weekends together, considering me in the
week ahead. He was very mindful of my schedule, and
he just scared like he really did care about me.

(43:51):
He just wanted to really make me happy. And I
did see that in a lot of his actions.

Speaker 5 (43:58):
How did he speak to you when he was angry?

Speaker 8 (44:00):
I think he would shut down like or at times
get defensive, like earlier on when I did ask him
about his smoking, and I did admit to him that
I was thrown off by how much he smoked. We
did get in a bit of an argument, or more
so a disagreement, and he just kind of said to me, well,
I don't know what to tell you. I'm gonna do

(44:21):
what I want to do, and if you don't like
me smoking, then that's your problem, which was also a
bit of a red flag to me because that's certainly
not like I wasn't bringing it up to make him
feel shame around it. The question that I asked was like,
are you planning to get ever get to a place
where you stop smoking? So it's hard Like we didn't

(44:41):
have too many like disagreements. I really just saw a
lot of his disagreements with other people, and I was like,
I don't want that to be me.

Speaker 5 (44:51):
Yeah, okay, I mean listen as far as like did
you do the wrong thing right thing? I mean, ultimately,
I think you just gotta trust your gut.

Speaker 8 (44:58):
Yeah. I do think it helped. When I did break
up with him, the text that I got back like
solidified my decision. So I broke up with him after
he met my parents, which was not the best. Like
there's no right time to break up with someone.

Speaker 5 (45:15):
But how did you break up with them?

Speaker 8 (45:17):
So we went to meet my parents and I at
that time was like, if he meets my parents, that
this is going to fix the doubts I'm having.

Speaker 5 (45:26):
Why did you think that?

Speaker 6 (45:27):
I don't know.

Speaker 8 (45:29):
I know it's stupid, but I didn't want to admit
to myself like that these things were like as big
as they were, And I was like, maybe if I
see him, like, you know, around my family, things will change.
So after I brought him back from meeting my parents,
like we said our goodbyes, I said thank you and everything,
and I just cried the whole way home because I

(45:52):
just my gut was like this is not right, Like
you can't do this anymore, like this is not the
right guy for you. So I waited like five hours
and then I texted him and I said, Hey, I
wanted to talk to you about something. I'm feeling a
bit unsettled about our relationship. Do you think that you
can call me the reason? Just for reference. We don't

(46:14):
live close, well close, we live like an hour away,
but we had plans to see each other on Tuesday,
and it was the Sunday. I was like, I'm not
waiting a day. I just can't, like, I need to
say something about this now. So he facetimed me right away.
The FaceTime lasted fourteen minutes, and I pretty much just
explained to him that I'm having concerns because I feel like,

(46:36):
at that point, like two months into this of us
knowing each other, I don't feel the way that I
should feel about someone. Like I just said, I'm having
doubts about the way that I'm feeling, and I feel
like my feeling should be a lot stronger and I
should be a lot more sure. He then said to me, like,
so what does this mean? And I said, well, I'm

(46:57):
just trying to have a conversation with you, right now
to explain to you what I'm feeling. He then said
again what does this mean? What does this mean? What
does this mean? And I said, okay, so I think
that we should break up, and he said, well, do
you want to have a break and I said no,
I don't think a break is going to do anything
like my feelings or my feelings and I don't see

(47:17):
them changing. Then, for reference, he went on a vacation
before we officially got together with his friends to an
all inclusive and so the first words out of his
mouth after I said we should break up, the first
thing he said was I can't believe I was loyal
to you on vacation. And I said to him, do

(47:38):
you want a gold star? Like I don't really understand
what that does to say that, And I just said
I was like, look, I understand this is a shock.
I get that you're mad and upset and like this
is catching you off guard. I said, I'm happy to
like talk about this later if you want, like once
you've like thought about it, I don't know, had a

(48:01):
chance to calm down, and he just said no, I
don't want that. I got to go and then hung
up the phone. So then he texted me and said,
this sucks. I really like you, and I'm confused and
I'm hurt. I said, I completely understand that you feel
blindsided and confused. I'm sorry that I took this next step.
I felt like I needed to be honest about what

(48:22):
I was feeling. It wasn't my intention for things to
work out this way at the beginning. I did like you.
I'm very appreciative of how you treated me, but I
know that I shouldn't ignore this feeling and it's important
to be honest. Like I said, if you want to
talk more, I can, and I also understand not wanting
to if you're angry, I'm really sorry that I hurt.
You didn't hear from him, and then he started sending

(48:44):
me texts. Was it the smoking? Did we move too quickly?
I'm willing to quit for you? And then I pretty
much sent him a text back pretty much reiterating the
same thing as I did before, and his response back
to that for reference. In my previous relationship, I dated
someone for about eight months and that ended because he

(49:05):
said that he didn't think he would be able to
love me. So I pretty much told him I didn't
want to give another chance, and he said, yeah, you
date some guy for eight months that didn't even love
you back, but won't give this a real shot. It's
probably in your best interest to have these conversations in
person and be forward. And then he said bye. And
then I just said, you want to try and tear

(49:27):
me down and comment on my past does nothing for me.
You can be mad and upset, but if you're going
to speak to me like that, I won't be giving
you a response. And then he said, I miss you.
Please give me another chance. And then I sent him
like another same text, pretty much reiterating what I had
said before. But I offered to get on the.

Speaker 5 (49:46):
Phone, like.

Speaker 8 (49:49):
Giving you more answer.

Speaker 5 (49:50):
There's no perfect breakout. I mean you did clearly did
your best. You were trying to like do the right thing,
all right, So like what's stopping you from like feeling
like you did the right thing.

Speaker 8 (49:59):
Like I know the right thing. I guess it's just
a I feel a lot of guilt, Like I've never
been in the position really of like breaking up with someone,
and I feel like a bit of an idiot, I
guess because of the way he treated me.

Speaker 5 (50:13):
Okay, well listen, I so listen, like I said my
should you break up with them? Should you not? Ultimately,
I think you should trust your gut, right. You know,
I'm not in the business of convincing people to get
back together with people where there are some clearly justifiable
concerns that you have, just for the sake of since
I have you on this call, and for the sake

(50:33):
of what can we learn from this situation? So to speak. Yeah,
when you told this story, I feel like I was
able to empathize with his point of view better than
maybe you were able to empathize with his point of view.
Not again, like, I think there's a huge difference between
a justification and empathizing. Right. Empathizing is simply understanding where

(50:54):
a person's coming from. Right justification is more like justifying
why you're doing something right. So I can empathize with
why someone might say, smoke weed or react emotionally in
a situation. Doesn't mean I agree with those actions of
how they handle it, but I can at least understand

(51:15):
why they did it right, because the alternative is being
like that is fucking crazy. I mean that there's this
I don't even understand why they do That's fucking nuts.
It's not a coincidence that this is a man who
you felt like really would do anything for you, and
that he's a middle child with some deep rooted feelings
about his family, right, not his reactiveness and about his family.

(51:39):
I can understand why you feel uncomfortable with that, and
justifiably so makes a lot of sense. Doesn't make it
right that he's doing it, you know, but I can
empathize with where it comes from. Right, you know, seems
like middle child. You know, maybe he just feels like
he gives, he gives, he gives, and he doesn't feel
like it's reciprocated. Now, that's also important to note that,

(52:01):
like he doesn't give for free. Most people don't, right,
And so it's not a selfless act of generosity, which
is fine because it's an act of love. You know,
he wants that act of love to be respected, or
he wants that act of love to be appreciated. A
risk of dating someone like him is that, like, if

(52:21):
those acts of love aren't reciprocated to meet his expectations.
You've seen how he responds to that, and that is
fairly aggressive and fairly toxic, and there's a lot of
hurt there, right, Yeah, And I can completely understand that
why within three to four weeks of dating someone you're
just like this is too much, too soon, and like,
I don't know, maybe I got too much of a

(52:42):
front row seat on this. I can assure you that,
like if you were dating this guy for like a year,
and you fell in love with them and had a
great relationship, and you experienced a whole year of this
guy like going out of his way and treating you
like a queen and really just like making you feel
like a top priority, and then and then you found
out about this family dynamic, you'd probably be a little
like less hasty about like how he reacted. And you

(53:07):
know maybe just like in that moment, like I get
it right, you just met this guy, and you're just thinking, like, whoa,
she's a fucking Christ. Like that's you know a lot
at once, broacause like you know, if I an unbiased,
if I was just like a friend of this guy,
you know, and if he called in or whatever, I'd
just been like, hey, man, like get why you're upset,

(53:27):
But like it's you know, you're you're coming from a
place of hurt. Clearly he wasn't trying to cut his
parents off. He was reaching out to his parents and
try to get his parents to have his back and
choose his side, and invented to his parents they never
had a side. So even though he was saying I'm
done with my brother, he clearly wasn't done with him
because he was trying to get his brother to do it.
He just was handling it and communicating in a very

(53:48):
immature and unproductive way. Sure, but that is just something
he needs to work on, and that might be something
he could work on through therapy and and things like that,
and you know, you know, so I'm just I could
sure put to this way, your next guy, whoever that
guy is, will have some things he's gonna have to

(54:11):
work on, and there's probably a reason for him to
jump into therapy if he isn't already. And you're going
to discover things at some point in the relationship where
it's like, well, that's some things you might want to
unpack there, buddy, because it's affecting our relationship and it
kind of makes me a little nervous about, you know,
are the relationship and going forward and things like that.

(54:33):
And then how like uncalled for he made that comment
about your ex boyfriend. I don't think he was trying
to be hurtful. I think obviously he was a hurt
person who just was like he clearly put effort in
this relationship, put effort into you, you know his you know,
the smoking weed part. He definitely you know, well I'm

(54:54):
going to do this. And you know, that was a
shitty response by him. A good response by him would
have said it would have been, like, I recognize it's
a maybe a kind of a dirty habit. Yuck, it's
kind of gross. I definitely like it helps me, and
I've cut down on my weed smoking. That being said,
my weed consumption has never been more prominent than it

(55:16):
has been in Sae the past three or four years.
And coincidentally, I've never been more successful in life. I'm
not giving the weed the credit, so to speak. I
think my work ethic and blah blah blah blah blah
blah blah. But like it, like listen, like it helps
me relax. Before I discovered it, I was more anxious
and more agitated and more just fucking on. And but

(55:38):
that being said, you know, there are healthier ways for
me to get to that place that weed has allowed
me to get to. And I would like to challenge
myself to discover those healthier ways so that I'm not
smoking weed every day because it's not good for my
brain and it's not good for my heart, and it's
not good for my health. And like, I want to

(55:58):
take care of myself that after I grow my family,
I can be around for my kids for as long
as possible, you know what I'm saying. So I think
there's a balance there in terms of I think the
least of your concerns are what you discovered to be
your kind of ix or and annoyances with some of
his unhealthy habits. He's a twenty five year old guy,

(56:20):
I mean, God forbid, so he eats out a little
fast food or smokes a little weed. And the fact
that he was mine, you know, the fact that he
was complaining to you, but like I don't love the
way I look. That's better than him just like growing
into a slob and not giving a fuck. You know,
I don't know if that's helpful. I don't know.

Speaker 8 (56:37):
Yeah, Like the whole we'd thing, like he would say
to me how much he wanted to quit because it
was an expensive habit and whatnot. I wasn't saying to him,
like I want you to quit. You need to quit
for these reasons. Same with the exercise thing, Like he
was all like bringing it up to me, and regardless, like, yeah,

(57:02):
I think a part of me was like turned off
by it, and I was just disappointed by it. Like
he had to smoke before meeting my parents, and I
just was like, that doesn't sit right with me. Yeah,
I mean so it might for some. For me, it doesn't.
It just doesn't.

Speaker 5 (57:19):
Like I hear you, but like I just I listen.
I'm not trying to convince you to get back to it.
This guy, and there are non negotiables and there are
pet peeves. To me when I'm hearing your story how
he handles his emotions and how he communicates with family
members and people he loves, I would put that in
the non negotiable category of like, this is a behavior

(57:41):
that's alarming and I'm not comfortable with it, and like
and and so that's a real reason to be concerned.
A disgusting habit that objectively probably helps him get to
a calmer state and relaxes his nerves. While I understand
it's a nick and it's a gross habit. You could
date a guy who doesn't smoke weed, who doesn't need
to meet your parents, and he's like an absolute narcissist

(58:03):
who like doesn't give a fuck about making you. You know,
I'm just I'm just saying, like, you're gonna have to
pick your battles. And I've seen a lot of people
break up with people for pet peeves that ultimately decide
out of the principle of it or it didn't you know,
and and they just it just doesn't sit right with
me because you decided doesn't sit right with me. I'm

(58:24):
the same guy, just by you know, becoming someone who
you know enjoys weed on a somewhat regular basis. Was
the was the judgmental guy at your age who was like,
I've never taken drugs in my entire life, and that's disgusting,
and I will never date anyone whoever does anything like that.

Speaker 8 (58:42):
I smoked.

Speaker 5 (58:43):
I'm just saying. All I'm saying is.

Speaker 8 (58:46):
Smoke.

Speaker 5 (58:47):
Be mindful of your pet peeves and in your judgments.
Uh and and and be mindful of the investment you
make into yourself and being a better person, and being
proud of the things that you do to make yourself
a better person. And be mindful of you projecting that
judgment into people who maybe not on the same wavelength
as you are.

Speaker 8 (59:06):
Yeah, I see what you're saying.

Speaker 5 (59:07):
I'm just you know, because like you, that can cause
you to overlook people who do have good core qualities,
who who treat and prioritize you in the way that
you desire to be treated and prioritized. For sure, let
me ask you this, did you ever talk to him
about how he handled his emotions centered around his family?

Speaker 8 (59:28):
Like, did I ever directly ask him that?

Speaker 5 (59:30):
No? Like, yeah, like it it made me a little uncomfortable.
How you you know, like I I it's like some
version of I'm sorry you feel the way about your family.
Try to understand his family history. It's just like why
there's a lot of sensitivity around your family? Like where
does it come? I don't know. Just try to understand
where he's coming from and then garden depending on what

(59:52):
he says is like listen, I'm not a therapist whatever,
but have you ever tried to work through some of
these feelings through therapy? Because like, I'm seeing them come
out in a way that does make me a little uncomfortable.
Like you, I can see your anger, I you know,
I don't know if this is something that like I'm
gonna eventually have to deal with, you know, in our

(01:00:12):
relationship in the future, and like it does make me uncomfortable.
I do want to understand first, you know, Like, so
you didn't have any of those types of conversations with him,
And again, it's totally fine because again it's only been
a month.

Speaker 8 (01:00:23):
But we did talk a lot about his family because
his like family dynamic was far different than mine, and
so I would I did ask him, like how all
the things that happened with his dad impacted him, and
he just kind of said he tries not to really
like think about it, and he has his stepdad he
considers his real dad and as far as his previous

(01:00:46):
dad for his biological dad, like he's again dead to him.
And there was a time where I did say to him, like,
have you been to therapy, Like would you consider going
to therapy be for this, because he mentioned that a
lot of his family members were in therapy, and he said, no,
I think therapy is stupid, like a waste of time. Yeah,

(01:01:11):
it just and again when we did have that conversation
around his family, and I asked, like I told him.
I said, I felt uncomfortable in the kitchen watching the
tension between like him, his mom, his stepdad, like his
brother wouldn't even like say hello or like look at us.
And I told him that, like I felt uncomfortable, and
he was just pretty much said, well, you don't get

(01:01:33):
my family like dynamic. You haven't been around like long
enough to see. And I said, I get that. You're right,
I don't get it, but I don't really know what
to do with that.

Speaker 5 (01:01:44):
That, yeah, terrible response by him. Also, like I've I've
dated people who I felt like we were very reactive,
and I was like, you can't talk to me that way.
And that response was like, this is help me and
my family talk to each other. And I was like,
good for you guys, but I have no interest in
like having that like be how my family dynamic is. Yeah,
I mean, listen, it's not your responsibility to do anything.

(01:02:05):
But if you were looking like just for how you
can handle things in the future, you know, I would
have maybe been a little bit more honest with him
about why you feel the way you did, because the
way you broke up with him, you were just like,
my feelings changed. Is if it was just some like
random thing that he wanted and he wanted to identify
what that was. It really was centered around his emotional

(01:02:26):
irregularity in his family dynamic. And yeah, I had a
shitty which you kind of brought up, but like, yeah,
you could have said listen, like I just was that
dynamic made me uncomfortable. And when I tried to talk
to you about it, you you know, like you just
I believe in the efficacy's of therapy and just working
things out and talking through issues so that like we

(01:02:46):
can handle you know, I have my I have my
baggage too in my trauma, and I just think there's
our healthier ways of dealing with it. And it just
made me uncomfortable that you dealt with some of your
feelings kind of in an unhealthy and unproductive way, And that,
more than anything, kind of made me uncomfortable. And that's
why I feel the way I do.

Speaker 8 (01:03:05):
Yeah, I think you're right. Like I definitely feel like
I could have been more honest about the why, because
in the moment, I was just trying to like I
don't know, I didn't want to be like hurtful, and
although it was hurtful, you're.

Speaker 5 (01:03:17):
Already being hurtful, and he made him feel judged, you know,
you made him feel like I was the weed smoking
or whatever, or that you just or that he just
wasn't enough.

Speaker 6 (01:03:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:03:25):
No, I think it is a really good lesson. Like
I wish I was just making more honest about about all.

Speaker 5 (01:03:32):
Of that, because it's like tip, a lot of you know,
a lot of young men have that same like a
therapy stupid or whatever. But you know, at some point
he's probably gonna learn that you know, this this is
pent up rage or feelings towards his family is gonna
is going to continue to bleed into relationships and so
he's either gonna have to deal with it or not.

Speaker 8 (01:03:50):
But yeah, and that was ultimately my I think observation,
which I think is what I should have said.

Speaker 5 (01:03:59):
How long ago did you break up with them?

Speaker 8 (01:04:01):
Two weeks ago?

Speaker 7 (01:04:02):
Now?

Speaker 5 (01:04:03):
I mean, how much have you second guessed your choice
to be like, no, I.

Speaker 8 (01:04:06):
Don't want to get back together, Okay, I for sure.

Speaker 5 (01:04:09):
Like, yeah, he's no longer your responsibility for my own work.

Speaker 8 (01:04:13):
Yeah, that I don't want to have to, like truthfully
for me to say these things and like talk about
his behavior and whatnot. Yes, I totally like should have
explained him that that was part of the reasoning about
as to why I broke up with him, But would
he have changed it? No, Like, his mentality was so

(01:04:35):
just like stubborn, like just very stubborn, and I just
felt like he would shut a lot of things down quickly,
And so I feel like it was kind of like
if I said to him, your behavior is the problem,
he'd be like, Okay, well that sucks, Like sucks for
you was the vibe that I got with a lot
of things.

Speaker 5 (01:04:53):
So well, again, he's not your responsibility, don't owe him anything.
And if you're not second guessing your choice like that,
then I would just move forwar. But yeah, I think
in the future it's tough to be direct and honest.
But yeah, it's a shame because it sounds like this
is a guy who who really wants to connect with
a woman and be a good partner and probably give
and feel love in ways that he didn't have with

(01:05:15):
his family. And so that's a guy with a lot
of potential, But right now he's just potential with a
lot with a lot of growing up to do.

Speaker 8 (01:05:22):
No, that's helpful, I think now I know better steps
to take. You know for breakups in my future.

Speaker 5 (01:05:32):
So all right, well you live and learn.

Speaker 8 (01:05:34):
Not that I want to break up with people in
my future, but.

Speaker 5 (01:05:37):
Listen, you're how are your twenty twenty five? You never know,
I'm twenty four. You know. These are great, These are
great lessons, So take your time and yeah, you're going
to be okay, but yeah, yeah, just honestly, the only
thing I want you to challenge yourself is just be
mindful of pet peeves and non negotiables. Yeah, and bad

(01:05:58):
habits can be worked through, and you know, but how
do they communicate with you? And and and things like that,
and you know, just just know the difference between the two.

Speaker 8 (01:06:11):
Okay, I'm going to focus on differentiating them, all right,
for sure, because I know I have my pet peeves
as well, so we all do.

Speaker 5 (01:06:19):
Yeah yeah, but those can be tweaked and worked on
or overlooked and things like that.

Speaker 8 (01:06:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:06:25):
All right, well, good luck, okay, all right, take care.

Speaker 8 (01:06:28):
Of Thank you so much, And I've been a really
long time listener and I just wanted to say thank
you so much for your show.

Speaker 5 (01:06:33):
Well I appreciate you saying that and thanks for listening,
and just uh, you know, just keep learning. You're going
to be okay. Thank you all the best, take care
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Speaker 5 (01:08:52):
How's it going?

Speaker 6 (01:08:53):
It's good?

Speaker 5 (01:08:53):
How are you good? What's your name?

Speaker 6 (01:08:55):
My name is Melissa. I'm thirty eight, and I am
struggling on how I can support my sister who will
not tell our parents that her spouse is trans.

Speaker 5 (01:09:07):
Okay, is your sister open? I guess what is your
sister's truth? Is she gay? Is she stray? Is she married?
You know, like I don't you know? What do your
parents know about your sister?

Speaker 6 (01:09:17):
Yeah, that's a great question. She, I guess identifies as bisexual.
So for her, I think in terms of sexuality, this
didn't feel like an issue. Okay, So she plans on
staying in the marriage.

Speaker 5 (01:09:31):
So your parents don't know that your sister's partner's trans,
right sort of.

Speaker 6 (01:09:36):
I told one of them, and I regret doing that,
but she does not want either of them to know.

Speaker 5 (01:09:41):
And why do you think they should know?

Speaker 6 (01:09:44):
It's I mean, it's hard. So the bigger pictures that
she seems to be really buckling under this stress of
the situation, you know, And that's what I really would
love some advice on with how to support her. And
when she first told me, which was like nine months ago,
she said that she planned to tell the family soon
just to get support so we could all sort of

(01:10:05):
come together and you know, help her spouse and everything.
She keeps pushing it off, and yeah, it's gotten a
little strange.

Speaker 5 (01:10:13):
So I guess I'm just curious to what end does
your sister feel like she needs support? And why do
you feel like she needs support? Or why does her
partner need support? I only ask this because like, there's
a world in which your sister is like, I don't know,
I'm married a trans person. It's really no one's business
they identify, is however they want to identify, and they

(01:10:36):
don't need It's not their fucking business. So like, this
is my partner, I love, I love them, and that
I expect my family to love them like I love them,
or certainly just accept them and just love me and
welcome my partner to the same they would welcome any
other partner. So I guess my question is why doesn't
your sister feel that way?

Speaker 6 (01:10:57):
I mean, I think the issue right, it's not about gender,
it's not about her partner being trans. It's more, at
least from my perspective, how her partner has handled it
so far, which I don't it's hard. I don't really
want to pass judgment on that because they can't imagine
how it feels to be trans, But it seems like
their handling of it has caused a ton of stress

(01:11:20):
on her you know, family and then also with her
in laws. So it's it's kind of like a whole thing, okay.

Speaker 5 (01:11:28):
Is it kind of like your sister's partner almost wants
people to know and then wants people to then accept
them once their truth is out. Is it some something
like that?

Speaker 6 (01:11:42):
For the most part, it seems like it's depending on
the day, Like it seems like her partner is pretty
on and off about this, which again I don't want
to judge that process.

Speaker 5 (01:11:53):
But you know, either way, inconsistencies of expectations are very
difficult to manage. Yes, yes, yeah, it's coming from yeah right.

Speaker 6 (01:12:05):
Well, and it really created an issue because my mom
and I actually visited her last week and my sister
wasn't even sure like what, you know, what style of
dress or how will her partner look each day? So
that part was really stressful because I didn't want to
know this and then have my mom find out just
by being shocked. But it did go okay, so that

(01:12:28):
part's good.

Speaker 5 (01:12:29):
Which parent knows the truth?

Speaker 6 (01:12:32):
My dad the one I'm closer.

Speaker 5 (01:12:34):
To, And how did Dad handle it at first?

Speaker 6 (01:12:37):
Pretty well? I I just I really feel bad. But
the reality is I was nine months pregnant when she
told me, so I was really stressed, really anxious. And
I saw my dad a couple of days after finding
this out, and he was, you know, just like usual,
like cow's your sister doing? And I just started crying
and he was like, okay, now you have to tell

(01:12:57):
me what's going on. So I did, and he was awesome.
He was like, Okay, you know, we love your sister.
We're a little concerned because this is sudden and shocking,
but you know, we'll be there for her whenever she
chooses to tell us. I think at this point he's
feeling pretty hurt that it's been almost a year that
she hasn't told him.

Speaker 5 (01:13:16):
So your dad knows, but your sister doesn't know that
your dad knows.

Speaker 6 (01:13:19):
Yes, Yeah, and I feel guilty.

Speaker 5 (01:13:22):
I gotta let all of that guilty. It wasn't you know,
like you weren't. You made a miss I mean, you
made a mistake. It came from a place of love,
your nine months pregnant, you know, I don't know. And
now and your dad has done what I think is
the right thing, which is to still respect your sister's wishes.
And your dad is acting as if he doesn't know

(01:13:45):
because you're you know, he's also respecting yours. He's trying
to Your dad's trying to do his best, which is
to respect the fact that he's not supposed to know.
And a lot of people in your dad shoes would
make it about their feelings and I deserved to know,
and then say well I should have known, so even

(01:14:05):
though you weren't supposed to tell me, I'm you know,
like your dad could have. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I
think you gotta let go of the guilt because it
wasn't like you didn't choose like again, first of all,
it just kind of came out in a moment of emotions,
and it hasn't caused any harm other than it's made
your dad feel a little sad, and I think Dad's

(01:14:27):
sort of what do you mean?

Speaker 6 (01:14:29):
Well, the other piece of that is that my mom
doesn't know, as I said, and my parents are divorced.
But my dad's a really good guy and he just
hates that he knows this, but my mom doesn't. He
feels like he's betraying her. But my parents are really
different in terms of their and say, emotional maturity and
the way they react to things. So I don't want

(01:14:51):
to tell my mom as well. But it seems like
almost this pressure cooker, Like the longer this goes on,
the more my dad really wants.

Speaker 8 (01:14:59):
Me to tell my mom.

Speaker 5 (01:15:00):
Okay, well, that's something you can continue to work on
with with dad, and maybe Dad can get You know,
if Dad's the emotional mature person that you give him
credit for being, then I appreciate that it's difficult, but
you know, I recognize the burden he must feel of
holding on to this secret. He'd rather not hold on
to especially because he's like, Hey, I just want to
love my daughter and I want her to know I

(01:15:22):
accept her and whoever she chooses to be with, and like,
why can't I do that? And it sucks that I
can't do that, And now I have to keep a
secret from my ex wife X wife or not. I
don't want to do that. Yeah, this is definitely a
burden on your father, but he is the dad, and
you know, I don't know, it's kind of our job
to sometimes to deal with some fucking shit. And if

(01:15:43):
he has to go unpack it with his therapist, he can.
You know. It's not killing him. It's just not you know,
it's not killing them. It's an inconvenience. It's annoying, it's frustrating.
I'm sure it causes him to like vent, but he
can deal with this, you know. I don't know. It's
not the end of the world. And this is also
not about him. It's not it affects him. I doubt it.

(01:16:05):
I don't doubt that the focal point of this is
not about him. And that's why he probably has kept
his word and kept the secret, because he, you know,
despite his feelings and frustrations and stresses it's causing him.
He recognizes it's not about him. What conversations have you
had with your sister about this?

Speaker 6 (01:16:22):
So those are a little tougher. I mean at first
it was to me it felt bizarre, which you know,
like you said, there's different ways of reacting to this.
But she was just kind of like, yeah, you know,
this is what's happening, and you know, we're just going
to go through this process together. And you know, my
partner wants to do this as quickly as possible and

(01:16:42):
transition as quickly as possible, so you know that's the plan.

Speaker 5 (01:16:46):
So did your parents meet your sister's partner before they
decided to transition.

Speaker 4 (01:16:51):
Oh?

Speaker 6 (01:16:52):
Yeah, So they've been together about ten years and there's
a very long, not so great history with this person.
So I think that's all so part of it.

Speaker 5 (01:17:02):
How have they not noticed any changes?

Speaker 6 (01:17:06):
Oh, we don't live in the same city, so my
mom and I visiting last week. That was I'm sorry, they.

Speaker 5 (01:17:12):
Just haven't seen them. Does your sister. I just want
to make sure what does your partner identify as this year?
He so, I don't, I don't want to.

Speaker 6 (01:17:18):
I'm sorry. Yes, sister's partner is a she Okay, yeah,
identified as.

Speaker 5 (01:17:22):
She, so they just haven't they haven't seen her since
her transition, not quite.

Speaker 6 (01:17:28):
There've been a couple face times here and there that
my parents have done with the grandkids, because they have
two kids, and in some of them, her partner looks
like the cis gendered man that we've all known them
to be, and then in some of them they are
wearing like a ponytail wig and feminine clothing like skims.

(01:17:49):
So they've definitely had some questions about that.

Speaker 5 (01:17:51):
How is your sister approaching this with her children?

Speaker 6 (01:17:56):
They're really young, they're one and two, so I don't
know that they've had any conversations.

Speaker 5 (01:18:01):
But kind of irrelevant, I guess, right. The challenge part is,
like what you said earlier, is that you're you're not
sure how your sister or her partner wants to approach this, right,
because you're it seems to change right.

Speaker 6 (01:18:14):
Well right, And I think another piece of it is that,
like I'm a therapist and they know that, so they
keep asking for my advice on it, but I tell
them I don't specialize in this area, so I don't
really want to give them advice. But what I do, like,
my gut tells me that the goal of going as
quickly as possible with this. When her partner says, they

(01:18:36):
only realize this about themselves, you know, at age thirty
two for the first time, that me feels like we
need a lot of therapy and a lot of good
work there. And they don't like to hear that. So
the conversations are a bit tough.

Speaker 5 (01:18:48):
Why not about it?

Speaker 6 (01:18:49):
Why don't they want to hear that?

Speaker 5 (01:18:50):
How do they How do you think they receive that information?

Speaker 6 (01:18:53):
I think they receive it like you know this there
was a problem. After thirty two years, a solution was
finally discovered, and so we need to just you know,
full steam ahead and do these interventions and hormones and
surgery and everything and just correct this issue.

Speaker 5 (01:19:10):
Gotcha.

Speaker 6 (01:19:11):
And so that's what they've said anyway.

Speaker 5 (01:19:14):
And I'm guessing that they're then maybe receiving your advice
that you have given as resistance to their realization ab
who they want to be, right, like, as if therapy
is something to make them reconsider their choices.

Speaker 6 (01:19:32):
Right, which is compounded by the fact that her partner's
parents are saying that they're saying, we want you in
therapy for a really long time. You know, we really
we've gone thirty two years and never saw any signs
of this, So we don't think you're correct in identifying
the issue, which I've never said. I mean, I don't
think that's for any of us to judge. But I

(01:19:53):
think when I say, hey, you know, can you slow
this down? Can you do some really good work in therapy,
I think they view it as like I'm on team
the parish.

Speaker 5 (01:20:04):
Sure, Yeah, that's tough, that's a tough needle of the thread.
I mean, other than you could just simply say I
support you in your decision, and I just want you
to know that. But I also think, whether it's transitioning
or anything else, it's just like good to always be
in tune to understand why you're making some of the decisions,

(01:20:26):
or maybe just understand why this is something you weren't
able to like discover earlier. You know, I don't know,
maybe maybe there's some other things we can unpack. I
think you should get in the therapy as a way
to help with this transition, not not in any way.
You know. You know when you say things like slow down,
that is going to be received, is I don't trust you.

(01:20:48):
I don't you know, you might be thinking about this incorrectly,
you know, And then I'm sure they might receive it
as it's already been thirty two years. How much longer
do you want me to wait? You know? So I
think slow down, which I completely understand where it's coming from,
is probably just like a triggering phrase for her.

Speaker 6 (01:21:07):
Yeah, it seems like it.

Speaker 5 (01:21:08):
You know. It's just like it's a sensitive topic that
there's a lot of different opinions, and I think it's
always we're all trying to understand it in real time.
And I do think most people approach this topic with
grace in love and empathy understanding, and I think sometimes
there's a little bit of like fear of even questioning
anything for being labeled a certain thing, because you're not

(01:21:31):
just on board, you know, no matter what. So it's
a challenge. One thing I think I think maybe this
could be advice, which is given that you are a therapist,
my guess is you're resistant to offering professional advice for
something you're not professionally equipped to give. But I think

(01:21:55):
you're missing out on the opportunity to give advice from
the place of a sibling and a sister that they respect.
Instead of saying I'm not comfortable giving you guys advice professionally,
you could say I can't give you advice professionally. I
can give you advice as a sister, but this is

(01:22:16):
not coming from me as a therapist. This is coming
from as a sister, and I just want to make
that clear, because I do think you're missing out on
just you know, you probably can give pretty good advice,
and you can come from a place of empathy and love,
and you're probably well. I think it's safe to say
you're the safest person your sister feels to talk about,

(01:22:39):
and she is looking for support because she also sounds
like she's not sure how to handle it either, which
is why she's coming to you for advice. So I
would challenge yourself to not punt the opportunity to give
your sister advice and just make it clear it's not
coming from a place of a therapist, but it's just

(01:22:59):
coming from a sister. And then maybe you could say
and then that advice could be Listen. I understand you
don't want to tell mom and Dad, but I also
think you're you're not giving them the benefit of the
doubt that they love and accept you guys whoever you
want to be. And I don't want to make this

(01:23:20):
about me, but it's it's hard to keep your secret
and and I do feel you know it is Again,
it's not about me. And I'll keep your secret as
long as you ask me to a little bit of
a lie there, but whatever, as long as your dad's
got your back. But I, you know, give mom and
Dad the benefit of the doubt. But like we're we

(01:23:42):
just have like because like a secret, secrets are so draining,
you know, and it's gonna it's obviously draining on your sister.
It's draining on your sister's partner, you know, your your
sister's partner. Like do I do I present more like
I used to for their sake to keep your secret?
Or do I be myself and who I feel most
comfortable in my skin? You know? And maybe you try

(01:24:06):
to guide them down that path to try to feel
safe and comfortable to reveal that truth. And maybe start
with dad, you know, and then maybe Dad can help
you help your sister feel comfortable telling mom. And because
your parents are divorced, maybe it is easy to tell
one first then the other because they're not like a

(01:24:29):
united front.

Speaker 6 (01:24:31):
I think part of it is it's like, yes, talking
about them as a couple, how can they be supported,
you know, as a couple, but then also supporting my
sister individually. I think that's the part where I'm getting
stuck because since this happens. Backing up a bit, she
told me that her partner told her this the day
she went back to work after maternity leave, so she

(01:24:54):
was already hormonally going through a lot emotionally quit their job. Yeah,
like that's the same day they said, I've had this realization,
I can't you keep this in anymore, and here's what
I'm doing about it. So on the one hand, it's
really beautiful that my sister is like, Okay, we're doing this.
I support you. On the other hand, since that's happened,

(01:25:16):
and I guess since her partners stopped working and has
just focused all their attention on this issue, my sister
has taken on. It seems like all of the household responsibilities,
everything with the kids just really running herself ragged. And
when we were out there last week, it was really
tough to see because her anxiety levels were just at
a ten to the point where both mothers that I saw,

(01:25:40):
both mine and then her mother in law both said
to me separately, like we think there's something wrong with her,
Like she needs an intervention, she needs some sort of
you know, anxiety management. And that's the hard part because
when I talk to her about this, she just says,
I have to show up for my partner, I have
to show up for my kids, and there's.

Speaker 5 (01:25:58):
Nothing I should do about it.

Speaker 6 (01:26:00):
Mm hmm. Exactly.

Speaker 5 (01:26:01):
Her partner is I don't know what it's like to
be in their shoes, and you know, but regardless, she's
not showing up for her wife, who has two young
babies and is now supporting those babies, her partner and herself,
both financially emotionally. I mean, that's a lot. That's a lot.

(01:26:25):
And you referenced before her partner decided to transition, there
were some issues in that relationship, or at least from
your point of view, what were those.

Speaker 6 (01:26:36):
I don't even know how to describe her partner. It's
just been a very long history of aggressive, rude behavior,
like literally screaming in grandma's face and yelling at my
dad to serve them dinner earlier, like stuff like that.
It's very not okay stuff. So I think that's also

(01:26:56):
a piece of this is you know, my sisters recognized
that and things, Well, that's because they weren't being their
authentic self. And isn't it amazing that now they've realized
this and they can be And it's like, yes, of course,
of course it is. At the same time, I think
the rest of us are feeling a little like, are
we sure that this person who hasn't demonstrated the greatest

(01:27:17):
behavior in the past will move through this in a
way where you know, they can still show up for
you as a partner and as a parent and all.

Speaker 5 (01:27:25):
Of that, and it's still resistant to therapy.

Speaker 6 (01:27:28):
No, so they're actually in therapy now, which is good.

Speaker 5 (01:27:31):
Okay, that's positive. Yeah, yeah, because like regardless of why
you're in therapy, you know, like I'm in therapy, you know,
like therapy, it's just like, you know, yeah, I think
I would start there, would I would I would reclaim
your opportunity to offer your sister and her partner advice
through the lens of a sibling and maybe try to

(01:27:51):
guide them down the path to give dad an opportunity
to accept them and offer And it's like to your sister, like,
you need help, You need help. You can't do this
on your own. Let people help you that you know,
and you can give that advice as a sister. And
I think maybe you start there and give her that

(01:28:11):
you know. You're you're you've you've been so brave and
you've done a lot and I'm so proud of you
and this is amazing. But like, this isn't sustainable. You
can't keep taking care of everyone by yourself. You're not
taking care of yourself, and you need to let other
people help you. And it starts by allowing other people

(01:28:32):
who love you no matter what, to accept the life
that you want. You know, And if if your sister
is rightfully so thinking this is a beautiful revelation that
herner partner have discovered, then she should act that way
for people who who want to give her the help
and love that she she needs. But she, for whatever reason,

(01:28:52):
doesn't want you know what. I'm curious, what's the part
that your sister doesn't want to tell mom and dad? Like,
why do you think you know what? I'm curious, both
from a therapist and as someone who's a part of
his family, why do you think your sister doesn't want
to tell them.

Speaker 6 (01:29:07):
Whenever I ask her, she just says, I can't deal
with that right now. She's like, I know they can
be judgmental. I don't think she's worried that they're transphobic,
but just overall judgmental. I think she knows they're not
the biggest fans of her partners anyway. So my guess
is that she's worried that, you know, they'll have a
negative reaction to any sort of big change or big

(01:29:29):
news coming from her partner. And she just says, you know,
they're boomers, they're not really going to get it.

Speaker 5 (01:29:36):
But she's wrong, and you know that at least for dad. Yeah,
you know, so maybe you having the benefit of knowing
something she doesn't know, to maybe challenge her on like,
and would she agree that dad's a little more emotionally
mature than mom.

Speaker 6 (01:29:51):
No, we have opposite opinions of our parents, so I
don't think so interesting.

Speaker 5 (01:29:56):
Yeah, okay, so do you how do you think your
mom will handle it?

Speaker 6 (01:30:01):
I honestly don't think it would be as bad as
she's worried about.

Speaker 5 (01:30:06):
So maybe to say, you know, just like mom and
dad aren't perfect, maybe they're boomers. I am not saying
they're gonna ace this test. You know, I'm not gonna
I can't promise you you're not going to have notes
about how they could have maybe like handled it a
little bit better. But I think it's maybe getting your
sister to acknowledge she needs some help and and to

(01:30:29):
you know, because she's like, I don't I can't deal
with this right now. So there's you know, she that's
a little bit of crack in the armor of her
like speaking her truth about like I'm overwhelmed right now.
And maybe it's just coming from a place of like,
I can't promise you mom and Dad are going to
be perfect, but I do think you're not maybe giving
mom and Dad the benefit of the doubt. And I

(01:30:50):
really think they're going to handle this pretty well. And
I do think more than anything, they would be willing
to help you their daughter and their great kids and
support you in any way you need to be supported,
because more than anything, I think they're just kind of
worried about you. And you could say, I think they're
just seeing all the stress that you're that you have
right now, but they don't know where it's coming from,

(01:31:12):
and they're honestly thinking they're they're actually having worse thoughts
than the truth, and the truth is like, yeah, it's different.
It's it might be surprising, it might be unexpected, but
like it's not bad, you know, So give them a chance,
because this isn't sustainable. You know, people are concerned about
you for thinks quite honestly, they shouldn't be concerned, you know,

(01:31:34):
but you're you're trying to take on this burden by yourself,
and it's it's hurting you. And that's the part I'm
concerned about this. This shouldn't be hurting you, and it
is because like you're doing this all by yourself and
you're trying to be there for your partner and you're
there for your kids and no one can be there
for you and you can't let and you know, other
than me, and I'm not sure. I don't you know,

(01:31:56):
I'm doing my best too give your family a chance
to be your family. And maybe it's like something like
that rather than being like I don't know what to
do professionally, so I just you know, I don't want
to say the wrong thing. And that's a challenge with
this topic. You know, everyone's so worried about saying the
wrong thing, so we don't say anything. Yeah, I don't
know if this is helpful at all.

Speaker 6 (01:32:15):
No, it is, for sure. And I love what you
said about just being there as a sister and not
you know, not as a therapist, because I think that's
where I feel really stuck. Is I think part of
her way of solving this and of getting support is
asking me specific questions like you know, when should they
start hormones and you know, when should they do this
or that? And then on the other ends, like her

(01:32:37):
in laws are really worried about her, and it's like,
I'm sorry, you know, I'm her sister, I'm not her therapist,
and I don't have any answers to this. Yeah, you
know this is new for me too, so it's like
I don't know what to say to her.

Speaker 5 (01:32:53):
Yeah, I'm sorry going through this and it sucks because
and then just how to curry out. I mean, I
know she's asking you because you know, she probably respects you,
and as a therapist, she's just like it makes sense.
But you know, I wouldn't go to an orthopedic for
heart or advice on my heart, you know type of thing,
which is and I'm sure your sister can under understand that,

(01:33:13):
so there are obviously people who specialize this. I'm assuming
her partner has physicians and doctors who she can go
to for this type of advice. Just try to be
I think, I think more than anything, be a sister.
Don't be a therapist and try to convince her. Try
to try to lead your sister down a path that

(01:33:35):
mom and dad love her, accept her, will be there
for her. It may not be perfect, but it's right now.
This isn't sustainable, and you are worried about her ability
to be her best self, to take care of herself,
to be her be the best mother she can be,
all while making sure that her partner is taken care of.
When her partner is you know, whether it's justified or not,

(01:33:59):
her partners making probably everything about them right now, and
that's got to be incredibly difficult, whether it's justified or not.
And in a marriage it's not you know, you know,
it's tough. All right, Well, I hope this was somewhat helpful.
You know. Obviously I don't know for sure, not my
expertise either, so it was.

Speaker 6 (01:34:20):
I feel like I keep trying to approach it from
like a clinical perspective and just hearing like the family
piece of it, of you know, being her sister and
encouraging her to lean into mom and dad's support. I
think that's helpful for sure.

Speaker 5 (01:34:31):
Great, yeah, well do I do that. You're a sister first,
a therapist. Second, Well, thanks for calling I certainly I
appreciate you asking, and obviously you know this, you know.
It's just these are relatable stories more than people realize,
and I think there is there is not a playbook
out there of how a family that wants to be supportive,

(01:34:53):
that wants to lead with love. These are these are
tough conversations, so thanks thanks for calling in and giving
this opportunity to hear your story.

Speaker 6 (01:35:00):
Awesome, Thank you so much.

Speaker 5 (01:35:05):
H m hm

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