Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Just Shadows Secrets.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
The last.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Marcos Graminologist condo, sales of law, Anoosys, Crime.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Break and Say.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
And here's America's Criminologist, doctor Kerry Myers.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
I love my friends, hope everybody's doing well. Welcome to
America's Criminologist. I'm a retired sheriff, former special agent, state trooper.
I'm an applied criminologist and academico. I use that term
loosely often nowadays who focuses on criminal justice, public policy, ethics,
and police operations. In my book The Evan affairll Man,
I present evidence of a new criminal arc type emerging
(01:04):
in modern society, often shaped by the dark psychological traits
and fueled quite frankly by the lack of faith, family,
and formation in our lives. This show digs into real
issues by crime and justice in America, from the front
lines to the policy halls, with truth, grit, and good
old fashioned common sense. But be sure to check out
(01:25):
my full archive at doctor Currymeyers dot substack dot com.
And don't forget we're streaming on every major platform. So
let's get into it today. This segment is brought to
you by Real Resilience. That's our ee l Resilience. It's
a transformative program helping inmates prepare for successful re entry.
(01:45):
This is so important in their lives. Using inspirational films
and guided discussions, Real Resilience teaches practical tools to build resilience,
strengthen relationships, and restore hope for the future. It's real
learning through real stories where positive choices are model. Not
just preach real resilience because re entry isn't just released,
(02:08):
it's a second chance done right. Okay, Today, we have
a great guest, one of my favorites. We have him
on the show quite a bit. We also have him
on The Lou Desmond Show whenever I'm have the opportunity
to guest host there. We're going to have a serious
discussion like we usually do, about order prudence, federal law enforcement.
We're going to get into the cartel destabilization that's occurring
(02:31):
right now, so we're going to discuss many things. We're
going to get into another suspected assassin, this time at
Mary Largo, our President's personal residence. We're going to do
an update on the j six pipe bomb case, where
John had the opportunity to provide testimony to the United
States Congress We're going to talk about some of the
(02:52):
optics and prudence on federal travel and resource use. We're
going to look in the reported death of l minshow
and the impact on the cjn G, and finally what
the FBI is doing right, which is many different things.
So joining me as a man who understands all this
kind of stuff inside now. John Nance is a retired
(03:13):
FBI Supervisory special Agent who served twenty years in the bureau,
including assignments and Miami and Washington.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
D C.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Prior to the FBI, he served as a deputy sheriff.
So he has over twenty six years total law enforcement experience,
and he is so good at what he does. A
lot of people ask him to come on to television, news,
radio podcasts, and he is so kind to be able
to come on Little O'd my little show, and we
(03:42):
appreciate very much. He also has a lot of operational
background and counter intelligence, surveillance, dignitary protection, tactical operations, of course,
criminal investigations. He's also a respected calumnist for town Hall
and Newsmax. John, welcome back to as a criminologist.
Speaker 5 (04:01):
Well, thank you for having me, and it's always a
pleasure speaking with you. It's always a good conversation.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Oh thanks. So are you surviving the uh the eastern
and north northeastern weather up there or you are you
far enough south?
Speaker 5 (04:15):
Well, we're far enough south. I actually live in South
Carolina these days. Okay, yeah, well, you know, the temperatures
have plummeted. Uh you know, not not that unusual for
this time of year, though, but no snow this time around.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Yeah, you know South Carolina. I used to go there
quite a bit, uh to uh, to do some talks
and law enforcement with the legislature. Man. What a beautiful state. Uh,
it's it's absolutely there isn't a I've been to many
cities there and there isn't a dog in a one
(04:49):
of them there. Every every city is good looking. Charleston
happens to be my favorite. But but it's just a
gorgeous place. So I can understand why you'd want to
live down there.
Speaker 5 (05:03):
Well, we love it. We've always considered it home. I
started my law enforcement career in Greenville as a Greenville
County deputy, so that's kind of where I got my start.
And Charleston's beautiful. We've been there many times. Really interesting
historical city. I think it's billed as one of the
most haunted cities in America. So if you get a
(05:24):
chance to go out there, the ghost tours are always
a lot of fun. Not that I really believe in
disembodied human spirits, but you know, the stories are fun
and it's always entertaining and some of the legends in
the eighteenth century practices pretty shocking, all very interesting. So
(05:48):
those tours out there are highly recommended.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Well, And it was the final stop on the Civil
War where were they laid waste to that entire So
I'm I'm sure that's where a lot of that comes from,
is because there was nothing left standing in that swath
that was cut out by the Union Army.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
So so let's talk go ahead, just because I would
say not to mention the food, the food, the seafood, oh, restaurants.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Yeah, and you get everything, because I mean you get
where Grenville. Greenville is a little you know, more into
the mountains, right, and then you go out towards the
sea where Charleston those areas are are at. So you
get kind of a wide path of topography, do you not.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
Yeah, Greenville County goes all the way up to the
North Carolina line. So the northern part of Greenville is
very mountainous, and then Charleston is only I think three
and a half hours away. So if you want you
want the beach, you want Charleston, all that kind of thing.
It's not it's not far so.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (07:01):
Like I said, we've just always kind of considered Greenville home,
and uh that's where I got my my start, and uh,
it's grown like you wouldn't believe it's in I think
it's constantly in the top five best places to live
in the country. I hate to repeat it.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Yeah, you don't want anybody moving there, Yes, especially anybody
from New York or California or those places.
Speaker 5 (07:25):
Right.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
Yeah, well that's awesome. So in uh, well, we'd have
to We ought to have you back on to talk
sometime about your olden days and and kind of describing
what it's like to be a deputy sheriff in a
more mountainous area which has its own unique issues. We
just I'm in Kansas City. We just lost two sheriff's
deputies in Christian County, which is down in the Ozarks,
(07:50):
deep in the Ozarks, very mountainous area down there. It's
there along the kind of Bullshoals Reservoir in that area
is prone to a lot of problems. They have a
lot of uh anti government groups that are are down there.
So the law enforcement, how the has their work cut
(08:13):
out for him. Many of the state troops Missouri state
troopers that have been killed in the line of duty
have been killed down in that section of town. But unfortunately,
two Christian County deputies were killed yesterday and the first
one was killed in a car stop and shooting, and
then subsequently the other one was killed trying to track
(08:34):
down the gunman. So he's still at large. So there's
a big mon manhant money manhants manhunt, excuse me, going
on down in southeastern Missouri. So we pray for them.
Uh So, let's look at a couple of things. You know,
there was another possible assassin. Luckily they were able to
(08:58):
stop him, killed him before he was able to gain
access to the facility of maur A Lago, which is
the president's personal residence. Luckily he and the family was
not there at the time. But this is once again
we're talking about another attempt to do the president harm.
Because I'm sure the gunman doesn't know the President's schedule
(09:19):
and is making an assumption that he might be there,
or maybe just wants to bring attention to himself. Those
are the others, but he ended up getting killed by
a sheriff's deputy and two Secret Service agents. Do you
have any initial thoughts on this case and maybe some
of the things if you're responding FBI agent, because the
FBI going to take over and do the investigation, because
(09:39):
that's what they do when the other federal agents he's
get involved in a shooting like this.
Speaker 5 (09:45):
Yeah, so the FBI has jurisdiction, primary jurisdiction in a
crime of this nature. So I mean to go to
motive first. It's kind of you know, it's all speculative
at this point, but you know, we can try to
(10:06):
extrapolate motives from some of the equipment that he chose,
like the the shotgun, which is not typically a weapon
that you would choose if you were intending to perpetrate
an assassination on a dignitary. So, you know, I don't know.
And the fact that he was carrying a gas can
was was he was he there to try to create mayhem?
(10:31):
Was he was he there to assassinate Trump? It's really
hard to say at this point. But in terms of
use of force from the Secret Service and the Sheriff's Office,
given the facts that we're presented with, it's a very
very clear case of an appropriate use of deadly force,
you know, and I think anybody with even a passing
(10:54):
acquaintance with the the the standards typically applied to law
enforcement with the use of deadly force. You know, you
point a firearm at law enforcement, you can expect to
be shot. I think that's that's pretty much common sense.
So I don't think the Secret Service of the Sheriff's
(11:14):
Office is going to face any issues with that. But
in terms of the FBI investigation, they're going to be
digging into everything with regard to this guy's life, and
they kind of start off with an advantage with regard
to all the surveillance capability that is located at Mar
A Lago. So I'm sure they're going to find out
(11:38):
very quickly what his mode of transportation was. That will
give investigators a lot of information even if it was
an uber, if it was if he drove a vehicle there,
that's going to provide a lot of digital information. In fact,
so his social media, all the people in his life, friends, family,
(11:58):
if he had friends, some stuff on social media that
indicated that he was a fairly isolated person. You know,
whether that's true or not, we'll we'll find out eventually.
Apparently his family has suffered the loss of his sister
in a car accident, so now they're suffering this tragedy.
And I think he has another brother who is enlisted
(12:22):
in the army, I think if that's if that's correct.
But the FBI is gonna, you know, it's going to
be busy interviewing, doing the basic investigatory pursuing the basic
investigatory practices that that has distinguished the FBI for you know,
over one hundred years. So well, we'll get to the
(12:46):
bottom of this, I think in fairly short order. But
you know, everybody wants to know about motive, and I
think that's that kind of remains up in the air
until we hear more from the bureau.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
Yeah, patience is a virtue, and today's day and age,
we don't have a lot of that, So there's always
you know, speculation and people want stuff hot. Now I've
experienced those kinds of investigations before, on the side of
being interviewed. I was in the nineteen ninety three Federal
Building and Courthouse shootout and bombing incident, and was lucky
(13:19):
to survive that. But it's one of those where as
the FBI came in to work the crime scene they
worked at primarily atf did a lot of work too
because of the bombing. They came in and helped jointly
with the crime scene, but being interviewed by the FBI.
They brought in another team to do those. And it's
interesting because where I was at, I knew quite a
(13:40):
bit of the FBI Field office in Kansas City. Most
of the agents I knew. They brought in others from
other jurisdictions to do our interview So they're very cognitive
and when they think about who does the interviews and
they can they be you know, dispassionate if you will.
(14:02):
And luckily they have the resources to be able to
bring people in pretty quickly, you know, to be able
to do that. Because I was I mean, I probably
was able to be interviewed within six hours after that
incident ended, which is pretty quick. You know, when you
think about making sure that crime scene gets secured and
(14:22):
all of the bombs, you know, make sure they'd been neutralized.
And things like that, but it but it's a testimony
to the work that they do, and it treated with
very very good respect and well ordered and you know,
very very just very good and their you know, and
how they approached you and they and they they cared
(14:44):
about you as a person that had gone through that.
So not only are you somebody that's involved in that,
but an essence, you're victim too, because somebody's trying to
hurt you. And so it's it's an I don't I
don't wish it on anybody, but it's an interesting position
to live in when you're actually in those, you know,
kind of situations. And so I think, you know, prayers also,
(15:07):
not only to the family of course that are suffering
the loss of their son, but prayer to those law
enforcement officers because there is I can tell you this,
there's always this could I've done something different. I can't
tell you how many times I woke up in the
middle of the night saying, is there something I could
have done different? Why didn't I do this? Or why
(15:27):
didn't I do that? You know, there's so many questions
you ask of yourself in those kinds of situations, and
you say you're the worst second guesser in the world
when you're involved in those kinds of things and you
you know it's it's there's always something you could have
done better or different in my opinion, when you're involved
(15:48):
in those kinds of issues. From a from a case
management point of view, this is so important because it's
not only the president's person residents, but as you said,
we don't know the motive yet. There's there appears to
be some and yet another serious issue with mental health
(16:09):
from what it looks like even the family is notated
that he had a mental health condition. It kind of
goes back, John to this continuing problem we have in
America with untreated mental health. And in the perfect world,
you know, there was a time when we treated people.
It seems like that we're now empathizing a little too
(16:32):
much and we're not treating people like we should. Do
you have any thoughts on that. I don't mean to
take it in that direction, but I just want to
get your kind of value and input on this because
it's so important that we get back to some structure
in our mental health discipline.
Speaker 5 (16:47):
Again, well, there's definitely a mental health riis. I think
that's I don't think that's an overstatement. Even in our
town here, the homeless problem is getting to be a
real issue, and it seems to be this false compassion
that tends to come from the liberal left where they
(17:07):
think it's compassionate to leave these people out on the street.
It's not compassion, Uh. These individuals are actually suffering and
they're not getting the assistance that that that that they need,
and a lot of people don't. A lot of people
don't I think expect that sort of attitude from the right,
but it is not. It is not compassion uh, to
(17:29):
leave people stranded out on the street with without the
appropriate medical or psychological help that they need, and it's
being used as a political tool, and uh, you know,
I'm not I'm not really sure you know why the
left thinks that. Well, let me put it in. I
(17:52):
think maybe in these I think the left wants to
portray whatever, you know, Republican administration is in power, or
the the left wants to portray American society as dysfunctional.
So I think that's part of the impetus behind why
the left tends to support leaving homeless people, leaving mentally
(18:13):
ill people, leaving people with substance abuse, problems out on
the street, because it supports and perpetuates the idea that
American society that we're fundamentally flawed, that our constitutional republic
is incapable of providing or housing, or providing the psychological
(18:35):
or medical help that's necessary to get these people off
the street and to help them become productive members of society.
So I think that's part of why we see that,
particularly in liberal cities like you know, we see this
tremendous problem in la in Chicago and New York, you know,
(18:57):
and every bastion of liberal control, we see this this
homeless substance abuse problem. And I think, in my opinion,
that is part of the reason, because they want to
they want to perpetuate this narrative that that our constitutional republic,
(19:20):
that our capitalistic society is fundamentally dysfunctional, and so they
they want this optic of this of this homelessness. And
I think in my experience anyway, I think that's I
think that's one of the primary factors behind it. I mean,
I know we're not really here to talk about some
(19:42):
of these broader societal issues, but you know, coming from
local law enforcement, you see this all the time. You
have to deal with it. You're the one that deals
with it. You know, if you're if you're out on
the street, you're answering calls for service, You're going to
get calls, you know, people loitering or people acting suspiciously,
and you're the one that has to deal with these
(20:03):
people who are overcome by substance abuse problems. I dealt
with that, you know, on almost a daily basis as
a deputy sheriff. So you know, you see these liberal
policies having very real world consequences and incredibly destructive consequences
(20:24):
for people who supposedly are their constituents.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
Well, that's why I like bringing you on, because I mean,
where our conversation goes, it goes, and it's an important
issue to talk about, and it's I don't know if
you agree, but it seems like there's many times there's
two Americas. There's a red and blue America. And I
don't mean to segregate it by politics, but there are
(20:49):
places in this country that are much safer than other places.
There's places like where I'm at, where we actually enforce
the law. Now, during twenty twenty, everybody was crazy. I mean,
we didn't enforce anything everywhere just gave up on it.
But nowadays it seems like in the redder states, there's
(21:13):
blue cities. In redder states, maybe that doesn't occur, but
it seems like intate redtter states, we are actually trying
to enforce the law, and the prosecutors and the courts
are actually understand their role as well, and crime is
lower as a result in many of those states that
we're doing it. It seems like to me, though, crime
(21:34):
is so underreported in the blue states that they are,
it's almost like they're personally trying to deflate crime stats
because they're not enforcing any of the law. If you
look at all of the riots that have just occurred,
in the fact that people no hardly anybody gets arrested
for these acts when they used to, and it doesn't
(21:57):
affect crime stats whatever. If there's loitering that's going on,
nobody gets arrested for it in the Blue states anymore.
You used to get arrested for those things, and then
as a consequence of the court they would say, you
can go to jail, you can get mental health treatment,
you can get drug treatment. What are your choices one, all, three? Whatever,
(22:18):
it's going to be but now there's no consequences for
anybody's actions. And I believe crime has gone down. The
murder rate shows that it's gone down, but there seems
to be areas. We've had an increase in law enforcement
officers assaults, and society is more chaotic, and I once
again I believe that we're breeding a different criminal art
(22:41):
type that is much more aggressive than we've ever had
in the past. And my wrong in that assessment. And
I please correct me if I am, but because I
don't want to be feelings base, but the data seems
to support that there's two Americas.
Speaker 5 (22:59):
No, I think you're I think you're correct about that.
I think, well, I don't think it's I don't think
it's a false dichotomy to say that there's a Red
America and there's a blue America, because in the Red
States we see law and order. We see this push
(23:19):
for law and order and lawn order works. By the way,
the perfect the test case of that is Washington, c Right,
I mean, one of the most crime ridden, unsafe cities
in the country. Trump comes in and says, well, I'm
going to bring in the National Guard and we're we're
going to enable MPD to focus on the job that
(23:43):
MPD should be doing. Right, so the National Guard will
kind of take up the slack and what and what
happens right, I mean, in short order, you have the
murder rate plummeting to historic lows. You have a city
transform literally transformed into a place where people feel safe
(24:06):
walking down the street, walking to go get dinner. Five
years ago, you you could not do that. You could
not do that. So law enforcement works and again it
goes it goes back to the it's it's the it's
the political philosophy of the Democrat Party, right, they're they're liberals,
(24:28):
are on the left side of the political spectrum. So
their tools are discontent and agitation. That's what their tools are.
So they want the pipelast to be discontented and agitated
so that they can create, so that they can position
themselves as the saviors. We're the ones with the answer
to the problems, the problem, the very problems that they created.
(24:52):
So they walk this tightrope. They don't want to be
seen as creating the problem. They don't want to be
blamed for the problem. That's why they want these problems
to look like they're organic when they're not, like the
homeless issue. It's not an organic problem. It's it's actually
a construct. It's it's something that in my opinion, the
(25:14):
Democrat Party, the socialists want, they want that. It's it's
an element of agitation, right so, and they especially love
it when Republicans are in power. And that's that's that's
why he's like, you see all this stuff in Minnesota,
None of that stuff was organic. All those people are
paid bust in professional agitators. So there is a blue
(25:40):
and a in a red America. The blue cities just
it's common. Look at Detroit fifty sixty years ago, Detroit
was a was a boom town. Yes, beautiful and safe
by the way, And ever since the Democrats have come
in and taken control of detro of Detroit, it is
(26:01):
turned into a dystopian healthscape. There is no I think that.
I think Detroit is one of the perfect case studies
of how liberal philosophies, how liberal political philosophies can undo
the prosperity engendered by the old fashioned American notions of responsibility,
(26:31):
working hard, the free market right. Detroit used to be.
Detroit used to be the the the automotive capital of
the world, one of the richest. A lot of people
know this one of the richest cities in the world, right.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
Yeah, they had the most they had them at one time,
and I think the fifties or show they had the
most most millionaires. Yes, yes, right, yeah, and then you
also got a fallollow the money, John, we gotta we
gotta have a break here pretty soon, but quickly it's there.
They're still taking money in to do this, and a
(27:08):
lot of these are going to n g o s
to be able to just pay off people to do stuff.
LA is doing that a lot, with just paying people
and paying NGOs to go out and fun stuff that
doesn't show any benefit, right, it's turned into a big joke.
Speaker 5 (27:27):
Well, Patel has made a point of making sure that
we do follow the money, and Minneapolis is another case
study in that. So the Bureau is back on track
and is doing the job that it should that it
should have been doing all along, and so follow the
money is a very important concept. Dan Bongino talks about
(27:49):
that a lot too, and the FBI is committed to
doing that.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
And speaking of following the money, we got to take
a commercial break here to pay our bill. So we'll
be right back with the incredible John Nance. Hi folks,
(28:22):
Doctor Curry Myers here to let you know that my
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Every Tuesday at one pm between The Dave Ramsey Show
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I'll have guests, news and my insights as an applied
(28:43):
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Speaker 4 (30:47):
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with retired FBI supervisory especially in john Nance town hall, newspacks,
Newsmax columnists. You see him everywhere. If you turn it
on the telly, you're probably seeing his face somewhere in those.
(32:14):
It's always a pleasure to have him on. John. Thanks again, well,
thank you again for having me. All Right, earlier this year,
you testified before Congress vers on the the J six
Special Committee, and you did a fantastic job, by the way,
(32:37):
so thank you, very very well done. Tell us about
that experience and some of the core testimony.
Speaker 5 (32:43):
Mm hmm, Well, it was a very interesting experience. You know,
I've never testified before Congress before, so you know, it
was an honor to do so, and to have the
opportunity to give give my perspective on the pipe bomb
(33:05):
case in particular. But you know, even some some larger
issues with regard to how the Trump administration has has
done a tremendous job in reclaiming the FBI, how Cash
Btel and Dan Bongino really did a tremendous job, and
the and the J six pipe bomber Brian Cole Junior.
(33:28):
His identification is an illustration of that. So the the
the Biden era FBI had had all the information that
that cash hotel, that Dan Bongeno in particular UH had reinvestigated.
(33:50):
For lack of a better term, it really was a reinvestigation.
So the core of my testimony really revolved around how
narrative and messaging can be incredibly detrimental, how dangerous narrative
can be political narrative, especially when it impacts law enforcement investigations. So,
(34:16):
in essence, during the Biden era FBI, and this was
the January sixth fallout, really Biden through his Attorney General
Merrick Garland, were obsessed with persecuting, and I use that
word specifically, persecuting many individuals who were guilty of nothing
(34:40):
more than federal trespassing, which federal trespassing has I don't
in the FBI's one hundred and seventeen year I think history,
that's never been really investigated or charged before. And of
course the charging body is DJ, it's not the FBI.
A lot of people want to conflate the two, but
the FBI conducts investigations and the d J is actually
(35:04):
the entity that brings the prosecutions, So individuals languishing and
DC city jails, that's all d O J. And of
course Marrio Merrick Garland incredibly liberal.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
No due process too for many of them.
Speaker 5 (35:18):
What's that?
Speaker 4 (35:19):
No due process?
Speaker 2 (35:20):
No do you know?
Speaker 5 (35:21):
Due processing violations? All you know left commonly just due
process violations. So the big emphasis was on the the
unicorn of the white violent extremists, right, So that was
the messaging to the FBI via Merrick Garland and UH,
(35:43):
to Christopher Ray, the priority is is the the white
violent extremist and that was to perpetuate that J six narrative,
to go after Trump supporters, to delegitimize Trump, uh, and
to create fear with within the the magabase if you
(36:05):
want to, you know, turn it that way. So, uh,
what happens, you know, the commander's intent gets communicated. So
Christopher Ray, You're you're never gonna find a smoking gun.
There is going to be a memo that says, I
Christopher Ray am directing the FBI to concentrate solely on
white violent extremists and ignore everything else. That's not how
(36:28):
that happens. You know, it gets it gets communicated from
the director to the deputy director, you know, down down
through UH the FBI headquarters management structure. And so what
happened with the J six pipe bomber case. The FBI
is busy with its the biggest investigation in its history,
(36:49):
which is the the Insurrectionists, right the the so called insurrectionists,
that the pipe bomber case became increasingly less important. And
part of my testimony touched on the fact that the
FBI likely knew U or or well they they they
(37:11):
had the information about about Brian Cold Junior very early,
and it is highly likely that because Brian Cold Junior
was a black male and didn't fit the narrative and
he and it also didn't fit the testimony of two
eyewitnesses who said that it was a white male. And
(37:32):
so you have these things kind of working against UH
the investigative process. And what happens is a case like
that will begin with some of the most experienced case
agents and as it becomes de emphasized and the and
the way you can see that happening is on a big,
(37:53):
big case, headquarters is going to want to get updated
sometimes daily, if not weekly, So well within about sixty days,
these updates to headquarters go from weekly updates down to
thirty day updates, so you can see the d emphasis happening.
(38:13):
And when d emphasis like that happens, the case will
start to get kicked down to more junior agents. And
you couple that with the priority being the quote unquote insurgency,
things just simply slip to the cracks.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
You know.
Speaker 4 (38:33):
The other thing is if you don't follow up in
a proper and immediate manner, as immediate as you can
to try to find these people, then speculation starts seeping out,
and more and more conspiracy starts seeping out. And one
of my primary concerns is there are so many people
that are getting convicted in the court of public opinion now.
(38:57):
And with respect to this particular case, the Jay six
bombing incident, there were numerous people accused on social media
right of being the bomber, and uh, I just can't
imagine going through that because you have just people just
(39:18):
pulling up stuff, Hey we saw this person and they
must be it, and then you start identifying and docsing them.
It's insane. What is going on now?
Speaker 5 (39:29):
Well, you essentially had some hobbyists, you know, some individuals
who think they know better than the FBI's CAST team
when it comes to interpreting cell phone pink tower data,
which is notoriously I used to work surveillance and we
used to utilize cell phone tower pings, not to get
(39:50):
into too much detail, but to helping our surveillance activities.
But the pink tower data can be delayed by you know,
ten and it's fifteen minutes. It's you know, it's it's
not a uh, it's not like this pinpoint accurate tool.
So it takes people, very technically savvy people to interpret
(40:12):
the data properly. And you have you got people out
there on the Internet saying, oh, we've we triangulated this
and that and and it's it's not Brian Cole Junior,
it's this other individual. And the Blaze came out with
a story that identified an individual, and I think it
was maybe a week or week and a half later,
the FBI comes out through through the efforts, really the
(40:35):
organizing efforts of Dan Bongino at the d D level
UH to bring in a group of TFOs along with
FBI CAST personnel to UH to to put a fresh
set of eyes on on the new on the information
the Bureau had, and to kind of demestify the T
(40:56):
Mobile data to the FBI already had and there's just
a ton of stuff that we could get into, Like
if T Mobile gave the FBI data that they couldn't,
uh that they could they couldn't and I'm not a
tech guy, but they couldn't figure out or interpret well,
that kind of begs the question, why wouldn't you go
back to T Mobile and say, hey, can you give
us this data in a different format that that we
(41:19):
can actually exploit us to push the investigation forward. There
are a bunch of other questions like that too, that
we just we just don't have time to get into.
But suffice to say, through the efforts of Bongino in particular,
I mean at the direction of Cash Betel and this
(41:39):
I don't know if you want to call it a
some people have called it like a red Cell team,
which is basically a group of people that comes in
to put a new put a fresh set of eyes
on already existing data. In any case, the cell phone
tower data. You know, I saw a documentation. You got
(42:00):
cell phone towered data properly interpreted that aligns with the
CCT footage and camera footage, sometimes within seconds of Brian
Cole of his phone ping and of Brian Cole's location.
There's a bunch of other stuff. There's also the purchase
(42:22):
history was very important, and Brian Cole and his confession
talked about things that only the bomber would know, like
exactly where the timers were set, like he he he
used basically kitchen timers as a as a detonation device,
(42:42):
and he told the interviewers exactly where those timers were set.
So the Blaze story is, you know, it's based on
extraneous kind of extrapolated information gate analysis, which yeah, it's
used some times, but it's always gata analysis always has
(43:02):
to be cooperated. It's it's not the end all be
all of of investigations. So my opinion, I suspect there
probably is a settlement agreement, some sort of arbitration that
is probably going on in the background. That's why you
haven't heard about litigation. That woun't surprise me at all.
But Brian Cole, you know, he and and and also
(43:25):
you know people that want to say that Brian Cole
is a patsy, like this ridiculous theory is floating around
on the on social media. Do you honestly believe that
that Attorney General Bondi and uh uh that uh uh
that Judge deene Piro. You know that that these people,
(43:49):
lifelong conservatives are are going to be duped by some
sort of crazy patsy you know, uh theory. So it's
just a lot of stupid stuff is being promoted on
the internet. But you know, I had the opportunity to
try to correct that some of that stuff in my testimony,
(44:10):
and it was a tremendous privilege.
Speaker 4 (44:13):
To do so well. Like I said, you did very
well and made us all proud. Can we spin over
a kind of quickly and talk about Dan's departure. Seemed
like it's something that probably was coming. I think when
they brought in the code deputy director, which I had
never heard of in the history of my law enforcement
career as a as a FBI Code deputy director, I've
(44:34):
never heard of that before, and that seemed like to
me that he was whispering in people's ears that he
was ready for a change, or maybe they they put
it put that person in there. What are your thoughts
on his departure? And I thank him for a service
and appreciate the work that he did, but he definitely
(44:55):
was I think ready to go.
Speaker 5 (44:56):
It seemed like, yeah, well, if you take him at
his work, he said that it was always his term
was always supposed to be about a year. So when
when we saw this co deputy director, that's never happened
before in FBI history, So it was a pretty clear
indication that Bongino was nearing the end of his term.
(45:20):
I don't think he I don't think he talked about
that publicly at all, like it just being a year beforehand,
But he has said subsequently that that was the idea
all along. So I think he had a few objectives
in mind. One of them was that was the pipe
bomb case. He wanted to get to the bottom of that.
(45:43):
I think he had a couple of other objectives. I
can't recall off the top of my head exactly what
they were, but I think he felt like he had
served his purpose. And frankly, I'm really happy to have
him back behind the microphone. He's doing a tremendous job,
especially going out what he terms, you know, the black
(46:03):
pill element. You have a lot of people out there
that are are are you know, have infiltrated the Maga camp,
so to speak, have infiltrated the conservative movement and they're
just constantly out there tearing down cash. But tell design
(46:26):
say that again, by design more than likely, no question,
by design, no question, by design. I have my own
personal theories about who the individuals are that are behind this,
but it definitely is a coordinated effort, There's no question
about that. And anyway, so glad to have him back
on the air. We had some differences a while back,
(46:48):
but all that has been resolved. So I'm glad to
have his voice in in in getting the truth out
to the American people.
Speaker 4 (47:00):
Yeah, and he gave up a lot because he was
extremely popular with a show and probably one of the
leaders in speaking the truth about issues and it is
it is nice for him to go back, so appreciate
his pause and service while he was doing. Okay, we
want to kind of focus a little bit on the
(47:23):
killing of El minshow who was with the Jalisco New
generation Cartel. Mexico is finally working with the United States,
it seems pretty strongly. Probably a lot of that is
due to the ability to have the ability to control
(47:49):
finances in tariffs, if you will, that the Supreme Court
through away. But I think those tariffs really helped Mexico
come to bear on these issues. What are your thoughts
on I always say that nature hates a vacuum when
it comes to criminality and crime. It's really one of
(48:10):
those where cartels are not known for filling these things
through peaceful thoughts. They're going to come out pretty heavy.
And what are your thoughts that the FBI has to
be concerned with with, especially transnational crime and infiltration into
the country to try to maybe minimize or compromise excuse me,
(48:31):
soft targets.
Speaker 5 (48:33):
Well, I think Trump has been very smart in designating
these organizations as terrorists organizations that that brings all the
federal resources to bear excuse me, on these particular issues.
And I think that I think Venezuela was I think
(48:56):
a warning to individuals who think that they're gonna thwart
US policies or present a danger to to US citizens.
I note that Trump views the drug trafficking as an
existential threat, so I don't think he has any Well,
obviously he has no problem whatsoever and employing our military
(49:19):
and interdicting uh these narcotic uh the the you know,
these these avenues of narcotic trade, whether it be on
the sea or on land. Or however it happens. So
you know, if I'm a cartel guy, I think I'd
be pretty worried about being the target of the US military.
(49:43):
So you know how that plays out, you know, you know,
I would you know, I would think it has a
deterrent effect or will have a deterrent effect. And you're
talking about power vacuum. I think that's the bigger issue
because you know, I I think it's been said many times,
like you cut the head off of this type of
(50:04):
snake and another one's just going to grow right back
in its place. So I think a lot of that
is going to be up to the individual administrations that
are involved in this, like the political party that's in
power in Mexico. I'm sure that the Department of State,
that the FBI, through its League at stations, the League
(50:29):
at offices throughout the world and in Mexico, will be
working closely with the Mexican government to try to make
sure that that doesn't happen. But this has been a
problem for a very long time. But I think Trump
is doing everything rational and reasonable to try to make
that try to protect America's citizens. I mean, the borders
(50:52):
locked down, We've got the military blowing narcotics boats out
of the water. I think that that method of infiltration
has decreased to like single digits.
Speaker 4 (51:04):
It's amazing. It used to be just done constantly as
that and aircraft.
Speaker 5 (51:11):
Yeah, so I don't think any cartel guy is going
to want a group of Delta guys sitting out in
his front yard. You know, whatever the discombobulator is, I
don't think you want to be on the wrong end
of that.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
So.
Speaker 4 (51:26):
Yeah, boy, the things we don't know that are exactly
the available via technology, now that's amazing.
Speaker 5 (51:32):
You know.
Speaker 4 (51:32):
I always this is about displacement theory. It's a criminological
theory that it's really not a theory it holds true.
It's if you enforce the law in certain areas, criminals
will move out and go to areas will be displaced
out and go to areas where there is an enforcement
of the law. You know, I did it at the
county level when I was the sheriff of the county
(51:53):
that I was in. I wanted crime to not be
in my county. I don't I really don't care about
my neighboring county. I didn't care about Kansas City, Missouri, proper.
That's their problem. And I know that as the sheriff
of the of the largest populated county in Kansas right
across the border, I'm going to enforce the law. We're
going to hold people for consequences. And if that means
(52:15):
criminals go to Kansas City, Missouri to commit their crime,
then I'm good, you know, because I don't want people
coming too Mike County to do it. So Trump's almost
been like an American sheriff where he's where he's basically saying,
I don't want you in my country anymore, you know,
And we're gonna we're going to stop stop ever we're cannon,
but we're going to go to resources outside of the
(52:38):
United States to make sure that doesn't happen. So they're
going to go somewhere, but they may go embedded further
and deeper into the jungles.
Speaker 1 (52:50):
Well.
Speaker 5 (52:50):
Well, people have reacted against the idea that we're the
where the world's police force, right, So that's kind of
the idea behind America first, you know, And and I
think it's an interesting analogy. You know, Trump being America's sheriff.
We we used to do the same thing in terms
of pushing crime out of our county. I think every
(53:12):
jurisdiction does that to one degree or another, and so
I you know, maybe maybe some of Trump's theory in
doing this is just to make sure, you know, you
want to push your drugs somewhere else. That's that's another
country's problem. But when it comes to America, it's not
going to happen here, and he's gonna he's gonna utilize
(53:36):
every lever of power available to him to make sure
that doesn't happen here.
Speaker 4 (53:42):
Okay, the FBI is doing some wonderful things. We're kind
of getting close to our time here, but kind of
end up if you are the FBI director today, what
are we still missing? What what would you like to
see the FBI doing? Or are we there? And it's
just a matter of.
Speaker 5 (54:02):
Improving on it. Well, the well, the Bureau has done
a lot of good work. I mean you just look
at the statistics like twenty percent drop at nationwide murder rate,
one hundred percent increase in violent crime arrests, and stuff
like that. The counterintelligence piece, I think still needs work
even though the Bureau has done I think three or
four counterintelligence arrests this year, which is which is a
(54:24):
big deal. But the CCP is a tremendous threat, and
I don't think we're I don't think we're addressing it.
I'm very very concerned about about internal penetrations. Who's the
next Hanson. That's that's what we really need to be
looking at. And I think that's something going forward that
that that is still an area that needs that that
(54:46):
needs uh more resources and more attention.
Speaker 4 (54:51):
And Hans and that's the reference to the FBI spy
that was arrested in the early two thousands. I think
right now, Yeah, they're definitely they're gonna they're gonna make
those plays, that's for sure. John, thanks for coming on
the show, my man. I really appreciate it. As always,
you do great work and appreciate it very much. So
thanks for coming on.
Speaker 5 (55:13):
Well, I appreciate it, and it's always a pleasure.
Speaker 4 (55:16):
All right, folks, that's a wrap for America's criminologists. We'll
check you out next week, so visit us. Then, don't
forget to check out my work on substack at doctor
Curry Meyers dot substack dot com. Stay vigilant, stay principled,
and most importantly, stay safe.
Speaker 2 (55:38):
Secum, let's see it cackles and crows
Speaker 1 (56:04):
Breaking change through fame, stuff through the fame
Just Shadows Secrets.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
The last.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Marcos Graminologist condo, sales of law, Anoosys, Crime.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Break and Say.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
And here's America's Criminologist, doctor Kerry Myers.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
I love my friends, hope everybody's doing well. Welcome to
America's Criminologist. I'm a retired sheriff, former special agent, state trooper.
I'm an applied criminologist and academico. I use that term
loosely often nowadays who focuses on criminal justice, public policy, ethics,
and police operations. In my book The Evan affairll Man,
I present evidence of a new criminal arc type emerging
(01:04):
in modern society, often shaped by the dark psychological traits
and fueled quite frankly by the lack of faith, family,
and formation in our lives. This show digs into real
issues by crime and justice in America, from the front
lines to the policy halls, with truth, grit, and good
old fashioned common sense. But be sure to check out
(01:25):
my full archive at doctor Currymeyers dot substack dot com.
And don't forget we're streaming on every major platform. So
let's get into it today. This segment is brought to
you by Real Resilience. That's our ee l Resilience. It's
a transformative program helping inmates prepare for successful re entry.
(01:45):
This is so important in their lives. Using inspirational films
and guided discussions, Real Resilience teaches practical tools to build resilience,
strengthen relationships, and restore hope for the future. It's real
learning through real stories where positive choices are model. Not
just preach real resilience because re entry isn't just released,
(02:08):
it's a second chance done right. Okay, Today, we have
a great guest, one of my favorites. We have him
on the show quite a bit. We also have him
on The Lou Desmond Show whenever I'm have the opportunity
to guest host there. We're going to have a serious
discussion like we usually do, about order prudence, federal law enforcement.
We're going to get into the cartel destabilization that's occurring
(02:31):
right now, so we're going to discuss many things. We're
going to get into another suspected assassin, this time at
Mary Largo, our President's personal residence. We're going to do
an update on the j six pipe bomb case, where
John had the opportunity to provide testimony to the United
States Congress We're going to talk about some of the
(02:52):
optics and prudence on federal travel and resource use. We're
going to look in the reported death of l minshow
and the impact on the cjn G, and finally what
the FBI is doing right, which is many different things.
So joining me as a man who understands all this
kind of stuff inside now. John Nance is a retired
(03:13):
FBI Supervisory special Agent who served twenty years in the bureau,
including assignments and Miami and Washington.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
D C.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Prior to the FBI, he served as a deputy sheriff.
So he has over twenty six years total law enforcement experience,
and he is so good at what he does. A
lot of people ask him to come on to television, news,
radio podcasts, and he is so kind to be able
to come on Little O'd my little show, and we
(03:42):
appreciate very much. He also has a lot of operational
background and counter intelligence, surveillance, dignitary protection, tactical operations, of course,
criminal investigations. He's also a respected calumnist for town Hall
and Newsmax. John, welcome back to as a criminologist.
Speaker 5 (04:01):
Well, thank you for having me, and it's always a
pleasure speaking with you. It's always a good conversation.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Oh thanks. So are you surviving the uh the eastern
and north northeastern weather up there or you are you
far enough south?
Speaker 5 (04:15):
Well, we're far enough south. I actually live in South
Carolina these days. Okay, yeah, well, you know, the temperatures
have plummeted. Uh you know, not not that unusual for
this time of year, though, but no snow this time around.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Yeah, you know South Carolina. I used to go there
quite a bit, uh to uh, to do some talks
and law enforcement with the legislature. Man. What a beautiful state. Uh,
it's it's absolutely there isn't a I've been to many
cities there and there isn't a dog in a one
(04:49):
of them there. Every every city is good looking. Charleston
happens to be my favorite. But but it's just a
gorgeous place. So I can understand why you'd want to
live down there.
Speaker 5 (05:03):
Well, we love it. We've always considered it home. I
started my law enforcement career in Greenville as a Greenville
County deputy, so that's kind of where I got my start.
And Charleston's beautiful. We've been there many times. Really interesting
historical city. I think it's billed as one of the
most haunted cities in America. So if you get a
(05:24):
chance to go out there, the ghost tours are always
a lot of fun. Not that I really believe in
disembodied human spirits, but you know, the stories are fun
and it's always entertaining and some of the legends in
the eighteenth century practices pretty shocking, all very interesting. So
(05:48):
those tours out there are highly recommended.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Well, And it was the final stop on the Civil
War where were they laid waste to that entire So
I'm I'm sure that's where a lot of that comes from,
is because there was nothing left standing in that swath
that was cut out by the Union Army.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
So so let's talk go ahead, just because I would
say not to mention the food, the food, the seafood, oh, restaurants.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Yeah, and you get everything, because I mean you get
where Grenville. Greenville is a little you know, more into
the mountains, right, and then you go out towards the
sea where Charleston those areas are are at. So you
get kind of a wide path of topography, do you not.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
Yeah, Greenville County goes all the way up to the
North Carolina line. So the northern part of Greenville is
very mountainous, and then Charleston is only I think three
and a half hours away. So if you want you
want the beach, you want Charleston, all that kind of thing.
It's not it's not far so.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (07:01):
Like I said, we've just always kind of considered Greenville home,
and uh that's where I got my my start, and uh,
it's grown like you wouldn't believe it's in I think
it's constantly in the top five best places to live
in the country. I hate to repeat it.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Yeah, you don't want anybody moving there, Yes, especially anybody
from New York or California or those places.
Speaker 5 (07:25):
Right.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
Yeah, well that's awesome. So in uh, well, we'd have
to We ought to have you back on to talk
sometime about your olden days and and kind of describing
what it's like to be a deputy sheriff in a
more mountainous area which has its own unique issues. We
just I'm in Kansas City. We just lost two sheriff's
deputies in Christian County, which is down in the Ozarks,
(07:50):
deep in the Ozarks, very mountainous area down there. It's
there along the kind of Bullshoals Reservoir in that area
is prone to a lot of problems. They have a
lot of uh anti government groups that are are down there.
So the law enforcement, how the has their work cut
(08:13):
out for him. Many of the state troops Missouri state
troopers that have been killed in the line of duty
have been killed down in that section of town. But unfortunately,
two Christian County deputies were killed yesterday and the first
one was killed in a car stop and shooting, and
then subsequently the other one was killed trying to track
(08:34):
down the gunman. So he's still at large. So there's
a big mon manhant money manhants manhunt, excuse me, going
on down in southeastern Missouri. So we pray for them.
Uh So, let's look at a couple of things. You know,
there was another possible assassin. Luckily they were able to
(08:58):
stop him, killed him before he was able to gain
access to the facility of maur A Lago, which is
the president's personal residence. Luckily he and the family was
not there at the time. But this is once again
we're talking about another attempt to do the president harm.
Because I'm sure the gunman doesn't know the President's schedule
(09:19):
and is making an assumption that he might be there,
or maybe just wants to bring attention to himself. Those
are the others, but he ended up getting killed by
a sheriff's deputy and two Secret Service agents. Do you
have any initial thoughts on this case and maybe some
of the things if you're responding FBI agent, because the
FBI going to take over and do the investigation, because
(09:39):
that's what they do when the other federal agents he's
get involved in a shooting like this.
Speaker 5 (09:45):
Yeah, so the FBI has jurisdiction, primary jurisdiction in a
crime of this nature. So I mean to go to
motive first. It's kind of you know, it's all speculative
at this point, but you know, we can try to
(10:06):
extrapolate motives from some of the equipment that he chose,
like the the shotgun, which is not typically a weapon
that you would choose if you were intending to perpetrate
an assassination on a dignitary. So, you know, I don't know.
And the fact that he was carrying a gas can
was was he was he there to try to create mayhem?
(10:31):
Was he was he there to assassinate Trump? It's really
hard to say at this point. But in terms of
use of force from the Secret Service and the Sheriff's Office,
given the facts that we're presented with, it's a very
very clear case of an appropriate use of deadly force,
you know, and I think anybody with even a passing
(10:54):
acquaintance with the the the standards typically applied to law
enforcement with the use of deadly force. You know, you
point a firearm at law enforcement, you can expect to
be shot. I think that's that's pretty much common sense.
So I don't think the Secret Service of the Sheriff's
(11:14):
Office is going to face any issues with that. But
in terms of the FBI investigation, they're going to be
digging into everything with regard to this guy's life, and
they kind of start off with an advantage with regard
to all the surveillance capability that is located at Mar
A Lago. So I'm sure they're going to find out
(11:38):
very quickly what his mode of transportation was. That will
give investigators a lot of information even if it was
an uber, if it was if he drove a vehicle there,
that's going to provide a lot of digital information. In fact,
so his social media, all the people in his life, friends, family,
(11:58):
if he had friends, some stuff on social media that
indicated that he was a fairly isolated person. You know,
whether that's true or not, we'll we'll find out eventually.
Apparently his family has suffered the loss of his sister
in a car accident, so now they're suffering this tragedy.
And I think he has another brother who is enlisted
(12:22):
in the army, I think if that's if that's correct.
But the FBI is gonna, you know, it's going to
be busy interviewing, doing the basic investigatory pursuing the basic
investigatory practices that that has distinguished the FBI for you know,
over one hundred years. So well, we'll get to the
(12:46):
bottom of this, I think in fairly short order. But
you know, everybody wants to know about motive, and I
think that's that kind of remains up in the air
until we hear more from the bureau.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
Yeah, patience is a virtue, and today's day and age,
we don't have a lot of that, So there's always
you know, speculation and people want stuff hot. Now I've
experienced those kinds of investigations before, on the side of
being interviewed. I was in the nineteen ninety three Federal
Building and Courthouse shootout and bombing incident, and was lucky
(13:19):
to survive that. But it's one of those where as
the FBI came in to work the crime scene they
worked at primarily atf did a lot of work too
because of the bombing. They came in and helped jointly
with the crime scene, but being interviewed by the FBI.
They brought in another team to do those. And it's
interesting because where I was at, I knew quite a
(13:40):
bit of the FBI Field office in Kansas City. Most
of the agents I knew. They brought in others from
other jurisdictions to do our interview So they're very cognitive
and when they think about who does the interviews and
they can they be you know, dispassionate if you will.
(14:02):
And luckily they have the resources to be able to
bring people in pretty quickly, you know, to be able
to do that. Because I was I mean, I probably
was able to be interviewed within six hours after that
incident ended, which is pretty quick. You know, when you
think about making sure that crime scene gets secured and
(14:22):
all of the bombs, you know, make sure they'd been neutralized.
And things like that, but it but it's a testimony
to the work that they do, and it treated with
very very good respect and well ordered and you know,
very very just very good and their you know, and
how they approached you and they and they they cared
(14:44):
about you as a person that had gone through that.
So not only are you somebody that's involved in that,
but an essence, you're victim too, because somebody's trying to
hurt you. And so it's it's an I don't I
don't wish it on anybody, but it's an interesting position
to live in when you're actually in those, you know,
kind of situations. And so I think, you know, prayers also,
(15:07):
not only to the family of course that are suffering
the loss of their son, but prayer to those law
enforcement officers because there is I can tell you this,
there's always this could I've done something different. I can't
tell you how many times I woke up in the
middle of the night saying, is there something I could
have done different? Why didn't I do this? Or why
(15:27):
didn't I do that? You know, there's so many questions
you ask of yourself in those kinds of situations, and
you say you're the worst second guesser in the world
when you're involved in those kinds of things and you
you know it's it's there's always something you could have
done better or different in my opinion, when you're involved
(15:48):
in those kinds of issues. From a from a case
management point of view, this is so important because it's
not only the president's person residents, but as you said,
we don't know the motive yet. There's there appears to
be some and yet another serious issue with mental health
(16:09):
from what it looks like even the family is notated
that he had a mental health condition. It kind of
goes back, John to this continuing problem we have in
America with untreated mental health. And in the perfect world,
you know, there was a time when we treated people.
It seems like that we're now empathizing a little too
(16:32):
much and we're not treating people like we should. Do
you have any thoughts on that. I don't mean to
take it in that direction, but I just want to
get your kind of value and input on this because
it's so important that we get back to some structure
in our mental health discipline.
Speaker 5 (16:47):
Again, well, there's definitely a mental health riis. I think
that's I don't think that's an overstatement. Even in our
town here, the homeless problem is getting to be a
real issue, and it seems to be this false compassion
that tends to come from the liberal left where they
(17:07):
think it's compassionate to leave these people out on the street.
It's not compassion, Uh. These individuals are actually suffering and
they're not getting the assistance that that that that they need,
and a lot of people don't. A lot of people
don't I think expect that sort of attitude from the right,
but it is not. It is not compassion uh, to
(17:29):
leave people stranded out on the street with without the
appropriate medical or psychological help that they need, and it's
being used as a political tool, and uh, you know,
I'm not I'm not really sure you know why the
left thinks that. Well, let me put it in. I
(17:52):
think maybe in these I think the left wants to
portray whatever, you know, Republican administration is in power, or
the the left wants to portray American society as dysfunctional.
So I think that's part of the impetus behind why
the left tends to support leaving homeless people, leaving mentally
(18:13):
ill people, leaving people with substance abuse, problems out on
the street, because it supports and perpetuates the idea that
American society that we're fundamentally flawed, that our constitutional republic
is incapable of providing or housing, or providing the psychological
(18:35):
or medical help that's necessary to get these people off
the street and to help them become productive members of society.
So I think that's part of why we see that,
particularly in liberal cities like you know, we see this
tremendous problem in la in Chicago and New York, you know,
(18:57):
and every bastion of liberal control, we see this this
homeless substance abuse problem. And I think, in my opinion,
that is part of the reason, because they want to
they want to perpetuate this narrative that that our constitutional republic,
(19:20):
that our capitalistic society is fundamentally dysfunctional, and so they
they want this optic of this of this homelessness. And
I think in my experience anyway, I think that's I
think that's one of the primary factors behind it. I mean,
I know we're not really here to talk about some
(19:42):
of these broader societal issues, but you know, coming from
local law enforcement, you see this all the time. You
have to deal with it. You're the one that deals
with it. You know, if you're if you're out on
the street, you're answering calls for service, You're going to
get calls, you know, people loitering or people acting suspiciously,
and you're the one that has to deal with these
(20:03):
people who are overcome by substance abuse problems. I dealt
with that, you know, on almost a daily basis as
a deputy sheriff. So you know, you see these liberal
policies having very real world consequences and incredibly destructive consequences
(20:24):
for people who supposedly are their constituents.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
Well, that's why I like bringing you on, because I mean,
where our conversation goes, it goes, and it's an important
issue to talk about, and it's I don't know if
you agree, but it seems like there's many times there's
two Americas. There's a red and blue America. And I
don't mean to segregate it by politics, but there are
(20:49):
places in this country that are much safer than other places.
There's places like where I'm at, where we actually enforce
the law. Now, during twenty twenty, everybody was crazy. I mean,
we didn't enforce anything everywhere just gave up on it.
But nowadays it seems like in the redder states, there's
(21:13):
blue cities. In redder states, maybe that doesn't occur, but
it seems like intate redtter states, we are actually trying
to enforce the law, and the prosecutors and the courts
are actually understand their role as well, and crime is
lower as a result in many of those states that
we're doing it. It seems like to me, though, crime
(21:34):
is so underreported in the blue states that they are,
it's almost like they're personally trying to deflate crime stats
because they're not enforcing any of the law. If you
look at all of the riots that have just occurred,
in the fact that people no hardly anybody gets arrested
for these acts when they used to, and it doesn't
(21:57):
affect crime stats whatever. If there's loitering that's going on,
nobody gets arrested for it in the Blue states anymore.
You used to get arrested for those things, and then
as a consequence of the court they would say, you
can go to jail, you can get mental health treatment,
you can get drug treatment. What are your choices one, all, three? Whatever,
(22:18):
it's going to be but now there's no consequences for
anybody's actions. And I believe crime has gone down. The
murder rate shows that it's gone down, but there seems
to be areas. We've had an increase in law enforcement
officers assaults, and society is more chaotic, and I once
again I believe that we're breeding a different criminal art
(22:41):
type that is much more aggressive than we've ever had
in the past. And my wrong in that assessment. And
I please correct me if I am, but because I
don't want to be feelings base, but the data seems
to support that there's two Americas.
Speaker 5 (22:59):
No, I think you're I think you're correct about that.
I think, well, I don't think it's I don't think
it's a false dichotomy to say that there's a Red
America and there's a blue America, because in the Red
States we see law and order. We see this push
(23:19):
for law and order and lawn order works. By the way,
the perfect the test case of that is Washington, c Right,
I mean, one of the most crime ridden, unsafe cities
in the country. Trump comes in and says, well, I'm
going to bring in the National Guard and we're we're
going to enable MPD to focus on the job that
(23:43):
MPD should be doing. Right, so the National Guard will
kind of take up the slack and what and what
happens right, I mean, in short order, you have the
murder rate plummeting to historic lows. You have a city
transform literally transformed into a place where people feel safe
(24:06):
walking down the street, walking to go get dinner. Five
years ago, you you could not do that. You could
not do that. So law enforcement works and again it
goes it goes back to the it's it's the it's
the political philosophy of the Democrat Party, right, they're they're liberals,
(24:28):
are on the left side of the political spectrum. So
their tools are discontent and agitation. That's what their tools are.
So they want the pipelast to be discontented and agitated
so that they can create, so that they can position
themselves as the saviors. We're the ones with the answer
to the problems, the problem, the very problems that they created.
(24:52):
So they walk this tightrope. They don't want to be
seen as creating the problem. They don't want to be
blamed for the problem. That's why they want these problems
to look like they're organic when they're not, like the
homeless issue. It's not an organic problem. It's it's actually
a construct. It's it's something that in my opinion, the
(25:14):
Democrat Party, the socialists want, they want that. It's it's
an element of agitation, right so, and they especially love
it when Republicans are in power. And that's that's that's
why he's like, you see all this stuff in Minnesota,
None of that stuff was organic. All those people are
paid bust in professional agitators. So there is a blue
(25:40):
and a in a red America. The blue cities just
it's common. Look at Detroit fifty sixty years ago, Detroit
was a was a boom town. Yes, beautiful and safe
by the way, And ever since the Democrats have come
in and taken control of detro of Detroit, it is
(26:01):
turned into a dystopian healthscape. There is no I think that.
I think Detroit is one of the perfect case studies
of how liberal philosophies, how liberal political philosophies can undo
the prosperity engendered by the old fashioned American notions of responsibility,
(26:31):
working hard, the free market right. Detroit used to be.
Detroit used to be the the the automotive capital of
the world, one of the richest. A lot of people
know this one of the richest cities in the world, right.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
Yeah, they had the most they had them at one time,
and I think the fifties or show they had the
most most millionaires. Yes, yes, right, yeah, and then you
also got a fallollow the money, John, we gotta we
gotta have a break here pretty soon, but quickly it's there.
They're still taking money in to do this, and a
(27:08):
lot of these are going to n g o s
to be able to just pay off people to do stuff.
LA is doing that a lot, with just paying people
and paying NGOs to go out and fun stuff that
doesn't show any benefit, right, it's turned into a big joke.
Speaker 5 (27:27):
Well, Patel has made a point of making sure that
we do follow the money, and Minneapolis is another case
study in that. So the Bureau is back on track
and is doing the job that it should that it
should have been doing all along, and so follow the
money is a very important concept. Dan Bongino talks about
(27:49):
that a lot too, and the FBI is committed to
doing that.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
And speaking of following the money, we got to take
a commercial break here to pay our bill. So we'll
be right back with the incredible John Nance. Hi folks,
(28:22):
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(28:43):
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with retired FBI supervisory especially in john Nance town hall, newspacks,
Newsmax columnists. You see him everywhere. If you turn it
on the telly, you're probably seeing his face somewhere in those.
(32:14):
It's always a pleasure to have him on. John. Thanks again, well,
thank you again for having me. All Right, earlier this year,
you testified before Congress vers on the the J six
Special Committee, and you did a fantastic job, by the way,
(32:37):
so thank you, very very well done. Tell us about
that experience and some of the core testimony.
Speaker 5 (32:43):
Mm hmm, Well, it was a very interesting experience. You know,
I've never testified before Congress before, so you know, it
was an honor to do so, and to have the
opportunity to give give my perspective on the pipe bomb
(33:05):
case in particular. But you know, even some some larger
issues with regard to how the Trump administration has has
done a tremendous job in reclaiming the FBI, how Cash
Btel and Dan Bongino really did a tremendous job, and
the and the J six pipe bomber Brian Cole Junior.
(33:28):
His identification is an illustration of that. So the the
the Biden era FBI had had all the information that
that cash hotel, that Dan Bongeno in particular UH had reinvestigated.
(33:50):
For lack of a better term, it really was a reinvestigation.
So the core of my testimony really revolved around how
narrative and messaging can be incredibly detrimental, how dangerous narrative
can be political narrative, especially when it impacts law enforcement investigations. So,
(34:16):
in essence, during the Biden era FBI, and this was
the January sixth fallout, really Biden through his Attorney General
Merrick Garland, were obsessed with persecuting, and I use that
word specifically, persecuting many individuals who were guilty of nothing
(34:40):
more than federal trespassing, which federal trespassing has I don't
in the FBI's one hundred and seventeen year I think history,
that's never been really investigated or charged before. And of
course the charging body is DJ, it's not the FBI.
A lot of people want to conflate the two, but
the FBI conducts investigations and the d J is actually
(35:04):
the entity that brings the prosecutions, So individuals languishing and
DC city jails, that's all d O J. And of
course Marrio Merrick Garland incredibly liberal.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
No due process too for many of them.
Speaker 5 (35:18):
What's that?
Speaker 4 (35:19):
No due process?
Speaker 2 (35:20):
No do you know?
Speaker 5 (35:21):
Due processing violations? All you know left commonly just due
process violations. So the big emphasis was on the the
unicorn of the white violent extremists, right, So that was
the messaging to the FBI via Merrick Garland and UH,
(35:43):
to Christopher Ray, the priority is is the the white
violent extremist and that was to perpetuate that J six narrative,
to go after Trump supporters, to delegitimize Trump, uh, and
to create fear with within the the magabase if you
(36:05):
want to, you know, turn it that way. So, uh,
what happens, you know, the commander's intent gets communicated. So
Christopher Ray, You're you're never gonna find a smoking gun.
There is going to be a memo that says, I
Christopher Ray am directing the FBI to concentrate solely on
white violent extremists and ignore everything else. That's not how
(36:28):
that happens. You know, it gets it gets communicated from
the director to the deputy director, you know, down down
through UH the FBI headquarters management structure. And so what
happened with the J six pipe bomber case. The FBI
is busy with its the biggest investigation in its history,
(36:49):
which is the the Insurrectionists, right the the so called insurrectionists,
that the pipe bomber case became increasingly less important. And
part of my testimony touched on the fact that the
FBI likely knew U or or well they they they
(37:11):
had the information about about Brian Cold Junior very early,
and it is highly likely that because Brian Cold Junior
was a black male and didn't fit the narrative and
he and it also didn't fit the testimony of two
eyewitnesses who said that it was a white male. And
(37:32):
so you have these things kind of working against UH
the investigative process. And what happens is a case like
that will begin with some of the most experienced case
agents and as it becomes de emphasized and the and
the way you can see that happening is on a big,
(37:53):
big case, headquarters is going to want to get updated
sometimes daily, if not weekly, So well within about sixty days,
these updates to headquarters go from weekly updates down to
thirty day updates, so you can see the d emphasis happening.
(38:13):
And when d emphasis like that happens, the case will
start to get kicked down to more junior agents. And
you couple that with the priority being the quote unquote insurgency,
things just simply slip to the cracks.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
You know.
Speaker 4 (38:33):
The other thing is if you don't follow up in
a proper and immediate manner, as immediate as you can
to try to find these people, then speculation starts seeping out,
and more and more conspiracy starts seeping out. And one
of my primary concerns is there are so many people
that are getting convicted in the court of public opinion now.
(38:57):
And with respect to this particular case, the Jay six
bombing incident, there were numerous people accused on social media
right of being the bomber, and uh, I just can't
imagine going through that because you have just people just
(39:18):
pulling up stuff, Hey we saw this person and they
must be it, and then you start identifying and docsing them.
It's insane. What is going on now?
Speaker 5 (39:29):
Well, you essentially had some hobbyists, you know, some individuals
who think they know better than the FBI's CAST team
when it comes to interpreting cell phone pink tower data,
which is notoriously I used to work surveillance and we
used to utilize cell phone tower pings, not to get
(39:50):
into too much detail, but to helping our surveillance activities.
But the pink tower data can be delayed by you know,
ten and it's fifteen minutes. It's you know, it's it's
not a uh, it's not like this pinpoint accurate tool.
So it takes people, very technically savvy people to interpret
(40:12):
the data properly. And you have you got people out
there on the Internet saying, oh, we've we triangulated this
and that and and it's it's not Brian Cole Junior,
it's this other individual. And the Blaze came out with
a story that identified an individual, and I think it
was maybe a week or week and a half later,
the FBI comes out through through the efforts, really the
(40:35):
organizing efforts of Dan Bongino at the d D level
UH to bring in a group of TFOs along with
FBI CAST personnel to UH to to put a fresh
set of eyes on on the new on the information
the Bureau had, and to kind of demestify the T
(40:56):
Mobile data to the FBI already had and there's just
a ton of stuff that we could get into, Like
if T Mobile gave the FBI data that they couldn't,
uh that they could they couldn't and I'm not a
tech guy, but they couldn't figure out or interpret well,
that kind of begs the question, why wouldn't you go
back to T Mobile and say, hey, can you give
us this data in a different format that that we
(41:19):
can actually exploit us to push the investigation forward. There
are a bunch of other questions like that too, that
we just we just don't have time to get into.
But suffice to say, through the efforts of Bongino in particular,
I mean at the direction of Cash Betel and this
(41:39):
I don't know if you want to call it a
some people have called it like a red Cell team,
which is basically a group of people that comes in
to put a new put a fresh set of eyes
on already existing data. In any case, the cell phone
tower data. You know, I saw a documentation. You got
(42:00):
cell phone towered data properly interpreted that aligns with the
CCT footage and camera footage, sometimes within seconds of Brian
Cole of his phone ping and of Brian Cole's location.
There's a bunch of other stuff. There's also the purchase
(42:22):
history was very important, and Brian Cole and his confession
talked about things that only the bomber would know, like
exactly where the timers were set, like he he he
used basically kitchen timers as a as a detonation device,
(42:42):
and he told the interviewers exactly where those timers were set.
So the Blaze story is, you know, it's based on
extraneous kind of extrapolated information gate analysis, which yeah, it's
used some times, but it's always gata analysis always has
(43:02):
to be cooperated. It's it's not the end all be
all of of investigations. So my opinion, I suspect there
probably is a settlement agreement, some sort of arbitration that
is probably going on in the background. That's why you
haven't heard about litigation. That woun't surprise me at all.
But Brian Cole, you know, he and and and also
(43:25):
you know people that want to say that Brian Cole
is a patsy, like this ridiculous theory is floating around
on the on social media. Do you honestly believe that
that Attorney General Bondi and uh uh that uh uh
that Judge deene Piro. You know that that these people,
(43:49):
lifelong conservatives are are going to be duped by some
sort of crazy patsy you know, uh theory. So it's
just a lot of stupid stuff is being promoted on
the internet. But you know, I had the opportunity to
try to correct that some of that stuff in my testimony,
(44:10):
and it was a tremendous privilege.
Speaker 4 (44:13):
To do so well. Like I said, you did very
well and made us all proud. Can we spin over
a kind of quickly and talk about Dan's departure. Seemed
like it's something that probably was coming. I think when
they brought in the code deputy director, which I had
never heard of in the history of my law enforcement
career as a as a FBI Code deputy director, I've
(44:34):
never heard of that before, and that seemed like to
me that he was whispering in people's ears that he
was ready for a change, or maybe they they put
it put that person in there. What are your thoughts
on his departure? And I thank him for a service
and appreciate the work that he did, but he definitely
(44:55):
was I think ready to go.
Speaker 5 (44:56):
It seemed like, yeah, well, if you take him at
his work, he said that it was always his term
was always supposed to be about a year. So when
when we saw this co deputy director, that's never happened
before in FBI history, So it was a pretty clear
indication that Bongino was nearing the end of his term.
(45:20):
I don't think he I don't think he talked about
that publicly at all, like it just being a year beforehand,
But he has said subsequently that that was the idea
all along. So I think he had a few objectives
in mind. One of them was that was the pipe
bomb case. He wanted to get to the bottom of that.
(45:43):
I think he had a couple of other objectives. I
can't recall off the top of my head exactly what
they were, but I think he felt like he had
served his purpose. And frankly, I'm really happy to have
him back behind the microphone. He's doing a tremendous job,
especially going out what he terms, you know, the black
(46:03):
pill element. You have a lot of people out there
that are are are you know, have infiltrated the Maga camp,
so to speak, have infiltrated the conservative movement and they're
just constantly out there tearing down cash. But tell design
(46:26):
say that again, by design more than likely, no question,
by design, no question, by design. I have my own
personal theories about who the individuals are that are behind this,
but it definitely is a coordinated effort, There's no question
about that. And anyway, so glad to have him back
on the air. We had some differences a while back,
(46:48):
but all that has been resolved. So I'm glad to
have his voice in in in getting the truth out
to the American people.
Speaker 4 (47:00):
Yeah, and he gave up a lot because he was
extremely popular with a show and probably one of the
leaders in speaking the truth about issues and it is
it is nice for him to go back, so appreciate
his pause and service while he was doing. Okay, we
want to kind of focus a little bit on the
(47:23):
killing of El minshow who was with the Jalisco New
generation Cartel. Mexico is finally working with the United States,
it seems pretty strongly. Probably a lot of that is
due to the ability to have the ability to control
(47:49):
finances in tariffs, if you will, that the Supreme Court
through away. But I think those tariffs really helped Mexico
come to bear on these issues. What are your thoughts
on I always say that nature hates a vacuum when
it comes to criminality and crime. It's really one of
(48:10):
those where cartels are not known for filling these things
through peaceful thoughts. They're going to come out pretty heavy.
And what are your thoughts that the FBI has to
be concerned with with, especially transnational crime and infiltration into
the country to try to maybe minimize or compromise excuse me,
(48:31):
soft targets.
Speaker 5 (48:33):
Well, I think Trump has been very smart in designating
these organizations as terrorists organizations that that brings all the
federal resources to bear excuse me, on these particular issues.
And I think that I think Venezuela was I think
(48:56):
a warning to individuals who think that they're gonna thwart
US policies or present a danger to to US citizens.
I note that Trump views the drug trafficking as an
existential threat, so I don't think he has any Well,
obviously he has no problem whatsoever and employing our military
(49:19):
and interdicting uh these narcotic uh the the you know,
these these avenues of narcotic trade, whether it be on
the sea or on land. Or however it happens. So
you know, if I'm a cartel guy, I think I'd
be pretty worried about being the target of the US military.
(49:43):
So you know how that plays out, you know, you know,
I would you know, I would think it has a
deterrent effect or will have a deterrent effect. And you're
talking about power vacuum. I think that's the bigger issue
because you know, I I think it's been said many times,
like you cut the head off of this type of
(50:04):
snake and another one's just going to grow right back
in its place. So I think a lot of that
is going to be up to the individual administrations that
are involved in this, like the political party that's in
power in Mexico. I'm sure that the Department of State,
that the FBI, through its League at stations, the League
(50:29):
at offices throughout the world and in Mexico, will be
working closely with the Mexican government to try to make
sure that that doesn't happen. But this has been a
problem for a very long time. But I think Trump
is doing everything rational and reasonable to try to make
that try to protect America's citizens. I mean, the borders
(50:52):
locked down, We've got the military blowing narcotics boats out
of the water. I think that that method of infiltration
has decreased to like single digits.
Speaker 4 (51:04):
It's amazing. It used to be just done constantly as
that and aircraft.
Speaker 5 (51:11):
Yeah, so I don't think any cartel guy is going
to want a group of Delta guys sitting out in
his front yard. You know, whatever the discombobulator is, I
don't think you want to be on the wrong end
of that.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
So.
Speaker 4 (51:26):
Yeah, boy, the things we don't know that are exactly
the available via technology, now that's amazing.
Speaker 5 (51:32):
You know.
Speaker 4 (51:32):
I always this is about displacement theory. It's a criminological
theory that it's really not a theory it holds true.
It's if you enforce the law in certain areas, criminals
will move out and go to areas will be displaced
out and go to areas where there is an enforcement
of the law. You know, I did it at the
county level when I was the sheriff of the county
(51:53):
that I was in. I wanted crime to not be
in my county. I don't I really don't care about
my neighboring county. I didn't care about Kansas City, Missouri, proper.
That's their problem. And I know that as the sheriff
of the of the largest populated county in Kansas right
across the border, I'm going to enforce the law. We're
going to hold people for consequences. And if that means
(52:15):
criminals go to Kansas City, Missouri to commit their crime,
then I'm good, you know, because I don't want people
coming too Mike County to do it. So Trump's almost
been like an American sheriff where he's where he's basically saying,
I don't want you in my country anymore, you know,
And we're gonna we're going to stop stop ever we're cannon,
but we're going to go to resources outside of the
(52:38):
United States to make sure that doesn't happen. So they're
going to go somewhere, but they may go embedded further
and deeper into the jungles.
Speaker 1 (52:50):
Well.
Speaker 5 (52:50):
Well, people have reacted against the idea that we're the
where the world's police force, right, So that's kind of
the idea behind America first, you know, And and I
think it's an interesting analogy. You know, Trump being America's sheriff.
We we used to do the same thing in terms
of pushing crime out of our county. I think every
(53:12):
jurisdiction does that to one degree or another, and so
I you know, maybe maybe some of Trump's theory in
doing this is just to make sure, you know, you
want to push your drugs somewhere else. That's that's another
country's problem. But when it comes to America, it's not
going to happen here, and he's gonna he's gonna utilize
(53:36):
every lever of power available to him to make sure
that doesn't happen here.
Speaker 4 (53:42):
Okay, the FBI is doing some wonderful things. We're kind
of getting close to our time here, but kind of
end up if you are the FBI director today, what
are we still missing? What what would you like to
see the FBI doing? Or are we there? And it's
just a matter of.
Speaker 5 (54:02):
Improving on it. Well, the well, the Bureau has done
a lot of good work. I mean you just look
at the statistics like twenty percent drop at nationwide murder rate,
one hundred percent increase in violent crime arrests, and stuff
like that. The counterintelligence piece, I think still needs work
even though the Bureau has done I think three or
four counterintelligence arrests this year, which is which is a
(54:24):
big deal. But the CCP is a tremendous threat, and
I don't think we're I don't think we're addressing it.
I'm very very concerned about about internal penetrations. Who's the
next Hanson. That's that's what we really need to be
looking at. And I think that's something going forward that
that that is still an area that needs that that
(54:46):
needs uh more resources and more attention.
Speaker 4 (54:51):
And Hans and that's the reference to the FBI spy
that was arrested in the early two thousands. I think
right now, Yeah, they're definitely they're gonna they're gonna make
those plays, that's for sure. John, thanks for coming on
the show, my man. I really appreciate it. As always,
you do great work and appreciate it very much. So
thanks for coming on.
Speaker 5 (55:13):
Well, I appreciate it, and it's always a pleasure.
Speaker 4 (55:16):
All right, folks, that's a wrap for America's criminologists. We'll
check you out next week, so visit us. Then, don't
forget to check out my work on substack at doctor
Curry Meyers dot substack dot com. Stay vigilant, stay principled,
and most importantly, stay safe.
Speaker 2 (55:38):
Secum, let's see it cackles and crows
Speaker 1 (56:04):
Breaking change through fame, stuff through the fame
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