January 1, 2026 • 23 mins
Val's story of healing began in her darkest moment.
Homeless, running from a violent partner, and battling suicidal depression, she found herself sitting by a river holding a bottle of pills in one hand and a bottle of red wine to wash them down in the other. Out of the twilight sky a majestic blue heron circled and landed just a few feet away. Something in the heron's piercing eyes caused her to stop swallowing the pills. In that moment, she realized that there was just too much beauty and magic in the world to give up. Thus began a decades-long quest to understand how wondrous encounters can spark healing from trauma and grief. This inspiring guide shares stories of profound, transformational experiences from four profiles alongside her own, and unpacks the neuroscience that explains how wonder helps our brains and bodies heal.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/arroe-collins-like-it-s-live--4113802/support.
Homeless, running from a violent partner, and battling suicidal depression, she found herself sitting by a river holding a bottle of pills in one hand and a bottle of red wine to wash them down in the other. Out of the twilight sky a majestic blue heron circled and landed just a few feet away. Something in the heron's piercing eyes caused her to stop swallowing the pills. In that moment, she realized that there was just too much beauty and magic in the world to give up. Thus began a decades-long quest to understand how wondrous encounters can spark healing from trauma and grief. This inspiring guide shares stories of profound, transformational experiences from four profiles alongside her own, and unpacks the neuroscience that explains how wonder helps our brains and bodies heal.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/arroe-collins-like-it-s-live--4113802/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You think life is moving quickly. I've got a decade's
worth of conversations with everybody who's appeared on NBC's The Voice.
You can check them all out one place. Arrow dot net,
A R r Oe dot net. It's the podcast titled
That Voice. Hello and good morning everybody.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hello Arrow.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
What's going on, miss val Walker?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Oh it's Monday, But I have good things to share
with you.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Well see that's my kind of news, because I'll tell
you what. The last time that you and I broke
bread together, I mean we were I mean seriously, when
you go back and you look at it, we were
on the brink of something that was about ready to
change the entire planet. We spoke a week, week and
a half before the whole COVID lockdown went into places.
And of course the name of that book at that
point in time was dealing with friends and things. And
(00:49):
I'm going, oh my god, she lived this book before
it was even released.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
It's so strange how it all worked out. It's interesting
because us so much of what I was saying in
that book. Yes, we had to figure out a way
to do it during the pandemic. So wow, it was amazing.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
The timing it really was, and so is the timing
on this one too. Healing through wonder, because there are
a lot of people that are stranded right now with
their mental as well as their courage, and the reason
why is because they don't know where to go. I mean,
I keep hearing these stories.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
I guess it's time to give up. The second Coming
is coming. I'm going, Oh, we're not quitting there, don't
do that. There are answers to be found. You got
to go get them, though.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
You're right, and it would really help if you could
just get off the phone and stop doom scrolling through
ch TikTok or whatever, and just step out. Notice the red
cardinal that just landed near your window, and you might
have a moment of wonder. And it sounds I don't
want to sound romanticizing and simplifying, but all all the
(02:00):
neuroscience shows that even thirty seconds of something that takes
your breath away arrow. It could be a song that
comes on the radio, it could be a bird that
pops in. It could be a ray of light from
a rainbow that shows up. Please stop and just notice
(02:22):
and wonder will put you out of your head.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
But you talk about that red cardinal. My studio is
actually we built it twenty three feet off the forest
floor so I could be up here in the trees
with the birds, and so I see my cardinals every
single day. And then just over here to my left
is a beautiful lake. And when I read this story
about you and the blue heron, I went, my God,
she's been in my studio. She has been in my studio.
She knows about the blue heron that are always out here.
(02:49):
I mean, but you're so right about that.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Yeah, well, actually see. I start my book with a heavy,
heavy story from way back in the nineteen seventies. Yep,
I'm dating myself. I was running from domestic violence, and
I was homeless, and I was really depressed. And the
one person in my whole life that I trusted and
(03:16):
loved had just died, my grandmother, Viv. So I had nobody.
I didn't have a family who was supportive. It was
only my grandmother and she died. So I'm running from
this violent man. I'm homeless, and I was ready to
take an overdose of valium. I was sitting by the
(03:36):
James River back in Virginia, where I'm from, in a campground, desolate, desolate.
In my story starts where I'm about to kill myself
with an overdose of valium because I can't take this life.
And I went ahead and started to swallow those pills.
(03:58):
But this enormous, majestic blue hair and landed about ten
feet away from me and stared at me. You know
how those big birds when they stare at you.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
They see right through, They sure do.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
It was sold to Soul Connection Era Errow, and I
stopped swallowing those pills, and my whole life changed after that.
I swore I thought maybe my grandmother had had something
to do with that Heron in Spirit. I don't know,
(04:35):
But one thing about my book is I don't want
to magically say it's the after life speaking to me.
I sort of leave everything open to being wondrous about things.
It could be spiritual, it could be scienced. We won't
just need to stay open. So after that Heron experience,
(04:57):
I ended up writing about awe and wonder and how
it can help people from not only I mean, from
feeling like giving up, but also help us live with
depression and anxiety and a lot of other trauma and grief.
And so the people that I profiled in my book
(05:21):
also are dealing with addiction or grief or trauma.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
So I have these other stories that go along with
mine where they had a moment of wonder that changed
their life. See, so thanks for hearing that.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
And that's one of the things that I picked up
on this story, and I really did in my own words.
I literally thanked you for including other people, because somewhere
inside that collection of stories that you've got, somebody that's
picking up this book is going to see themselves in
their experience, in their words, and that's where things begin
to change when we can see ourselves somewhere else and
(05:57):
how they were able to move through that resilience, that
hope as well as that connection.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Yeah, because there's so many ways to find wonder. Yeah,
we can have it in music. You can go to
you know erow, I know, you know the feeling of
being at a concert where thousands of people are feeling
that vibe and vibe into the music. That's a powerful
feeling of awe that changes that can really change your life.
(06:25):
You feel at one with other people. You know, something
comes to you that gives you faith in humanity. When
you're at a concert like that.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Well, see, I can relate with that Vale because I
am that live performer. I do live off that energy
and when and when they're giving me that energy back
and I'm up on that stage. My god, how do
you even put something like that into words? Until I
read it from people like yourself, Val about how you
know that experience becomes something that's personal to them.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
And I'm going, that's why I'm there.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
It's not because of me, It's because I'm there for them.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yeah, And all the neuroscience shows it's hard to put
into words. These experiences of awe are beyond words. They're inexplicable.
And the neuroscience shows that takes us out of this
is like a word. Everybody can remember the default mode network,
(07:22):
and that is the part of your brain that wants
to control and figure things out and know what's going
to happen next. But a moment that takes your breath away,
like a concert or a blue heroin that you know
shows up like that. A moment like that literally switches
(07:43):
your mind right out of default mode network and it
puts you right in the present moment where your brain
is able to take in what we cannot explain.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
In that amazing it is and it creates questions. And
maybe that's just me.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
I'm always, you know, looking for that next you know thing,
because when you plant a seed like that, of course
my mind is going, okay, I'm going to take her
there then and and that place I want to take
you is how did you make these connections with people
and to understand their side of the story when you've
got your own trauma story and you didn't make it
about value, made it about them. You're making it about
us that are on the receiving side of this page.
(08:24):
Do you see the evolution there? It's it's like the
site the seed that becomes the tree. The tree sacrifices
it's life so it has paper. Here comes the writer.
The writer puts their words on paper. Now you've got
a receiver and saying, oh my god, there's an entire
journey here.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Val Well, damn, this is the thing that made me
want to write the book I had written about my
blue hair and experiences like thirty years ago and during listen,
all through the pandemic, all this new research was coming
out on on Wonder from the neuroscience.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Yeah, and I.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Actually I'm a blogger for psychology today. So I was
reading other colleagues who were writing articles on all I'm wondering.
I was going, Wow, the science is showing that we
lose our sense of time when we're in an all moment,
that our default mode network is unlocked and deactivated when
(09:22):
we're in an all moment. That when we're in an
all moment, we're better able to be with other people
who are different than we are because we're all sharing
the same experience, like during the eclipse. Yes, So what
I'm trying to show is what made me want to
write the book was neuroscience was just coming out with
(09:46):
how AWE isn't just this magical childlike thing in us,
But it was like giving respect in validating awe as necessary,
and especially in these times when we're so caught up
in our technology and on our screens, we have to
have awe to stay human.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Do you suggest that people sit down with a writing
instrument and describe what was your awe today, even if
it was a tiny awe, Let me hear your awe.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yes, you know, we don't need to have big, big,
huge awe experiences like the hair and things that happened
to me like it doesn't have to be that big.
It can be little moments, did you know, just little
daily moments. Just inviting those little moments, it makes a difference.
(10:36):
And science shows it's the little moments that take your
breath away, those little pauses that are just as valuable.
So we've got to make room in our lives to
have moments that take our breath away and that we're
just sort of feeling humble and open. And the more
(10:58):
our experiences we have, the more open we are to
just actually it opens us our curiosity and our wonder.
It helps us prevent us from cynicism and all the
negativity in the world. It's like our resistance to all
(11:20):
that negativity is to like really put onto your daily life.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Please do not move. We're coming right back with Val Walker.
How's the Wonder in your life? Healing through Wonder, the
latest book from Val Walker. We're back.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
You're such a motivation to me in the way that
because you know, one of the things that I did
during the lockdown was because I was starving for people.
So I went and got a job at a grocery
store just because that was the only place where people were.
And what I've learned is that I do not believe
there's such a thing as grumpy old man's syndrome. I
do not believe that that women are grumpy to it.
(11:58):
And what I do is I I'll challenge myself and
I'll tell employees, I'll say, watch this. We all know
them as being a grumpy person. They're never in a
good mood. You give me five minutes with them, and
I guarantee I'm gonna have them laughing. And it's only
because you're going over there to listen, listen to what
they're because they're all carrying their own personal weight. What
if we prove or just kind of share something with them,
(12:19):
the art of listening so somebody can say they heard me.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
My God, they heard me.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
You know, all experiences teach us how to tune in
to other people. It gets us out of that fing
default mode network of our brain that wants to control everything.
It lets us step in and tune in to people
and life around us. Yeah, because boy do we need
to be able to do that.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Trauma and grief come in so many shapes and sizes.
Whatever you had as trauma will not be like somebody else's.
And that's like when people say you ask him me.
You say, how you doing today? I'm okay, whoa, whoa?
Hold on? Just okay, look at how bright that son
is out out there? Did you see that blue heron
out there?
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Just okay, right right?
Speaker 2 (13:06):
And you know, we should feel really happy and grateful
that we're able and willing to have the one in
our life, because it really is a choice. Yeah, and
it's a you know, we don't have to have a
special privilege, you know, on wonder come free to us.
(13:28):
And it's so sad that we think we have to
take an exotic vacation, you know, or stay tuned into
something to have like an exciting experience. God, if we
could just learn to just look outside the window, we
can have these moments if we're open to it.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
If you could see out my window, if you could
see out my window right now, there is a female cardinal.
It's outside my window right now. And I just wish
that that the female cardinals had the confidence of the
bright red cardinals, because they don't get the attention. And
the female cardinals do that the men do. And yet
this cardinal, I swear to God, it's not even three
feet from me. We're talking about birds, and I'm telling
(14:11):
you that bird right there knows we are talking about cardinals.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Amen to that. I know, everything gets so tuned in
when you're open to wonder and awe. It's like it
becomes a magnet. You start seeing things around you. It's amazing.
And I just think we get so just we get
really bad habits with our brains and tune out stuff
(14:36):
and think we have to be on screen. You know
what's really sad is let's say you're having an alle
moment with those cardinals arrow and you're so caught up
wanting to take a picture for Instagram. You're all caught
up in that damn thing of getting the picture out
but missing the moment.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, yeah, Well let's go go back to that live performance,
because the answer I really wanted to give you vow,
oh yeah, I've been to that concert. Out there in
the crowd, you mean, I was the only one that
was looking at that stage and everybody else was looking
at their phones because they had their cameras up there.
So I mean that and that I want to go
back to the days of the concerts where you actually
everybody got together and enjoyed that.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Concert, right, And like the Coldplay concerts, tells everybody to
put their phones away for the you know sky full
of Stars song. You know, like I've watched that, but
I wasn't live. I wish I could say I've gone
to one. But she brings in the magic.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Yeah, yeah, I love them.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
So now, what is the next level of this book?
Because you've got something in First of all, the last
one we talked about was was the one in twenty twenty.
This one goes deeper and it's more outreach. I mean,
what what what is the next step of it? Are
you going to podcasts? Are you going to go on
a tour where you can speak? I mean, because you can't.
You cannot just let this book sit at a bookstore.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Oh less you for saying that. Arrow. You've always made
my day when I talk to you, I tell you
so thank you for that. I first of all, I
have spoken on this topic to groups of people that
are dealing with the loss of loved ones due to substantues.
I've been part of some conferences where I've been a
(16:22):
keynote speaker talking about how wonder and Awe help us heal.
So yes, I've been already speaking on this at grief
conferences and for addiction and for trauma. But here's the
bigger thing. I will be on some more podcasts and
(16:42):
for example, Larry Rifkin with America Trends and some others. Yeah,
and so I am getting around getting the word out.
But the big mission for me is arrow. There are
a lot of people who don't realize just how valuable
their sense of wonder isn't They don't realize what a
(17:04):
healing force, how powerful it is. They just think it's
like this childhood side of them. Yeah, you know, I
have a sense of wonder, but that's not a big deal.
I wrote this book to show that it is a
big deal and it could actually help save our lives,
especially with depression and trauma.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Well, one of the things that you are in this
book is well focused. And here's the reason why. Because
when I look at the word wonder and I see
how I wrote it inside my daily writing, my wonder
doesn't look like wonder. It looks like wonder. And so
therefore the learning lesson there is am I wandering through
wonder thinking that I've got this thing made and maybe
(17:46):
the focus needs to be on the wonder and stop wandering.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
You know, you're right because so much of what happens
with a real moment where that default network. You know,
I told you about that default mode network. When you're
having a true moment of wonder in awe, you stop
thinking about what you're doing. You're just there in the moment. Yeah,
(18:11):
you see, So you don't wander around trying to focus.
All makes you focus automatically and naturally, And you know,
a lot of us feel like we've lost our focus.
But let the natural things that like take your breath
away teach you how to focus again. So if that
makes sense, you know, a lot of it is if
(18:34):
you know ways that you can find the things that
are wondrous to you, like the herons, or like your cardinals,
or like music or a certain piece of music, you
can go ahead and create that wonder.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
So it's so funny that because that's that you keep
bringing up the music. And it reminds me of a
feature that I have on iHeartRadio that goes up today
and and one of my big things my soapbox is
is I wish people would put away the old songs
and discover the new ones, because these artists are busting
tail to get a You can get anything out there,
And if we're stuck on listening to past songs, these
(19:11):
poor artists up today are not being heard. And so
I say, I will, I will always make it. So
go wonder. Go listen to a modern band, somebody you know.
Go go listen to the new album from Justin Bieber,
and I bet you you're gonna like it.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Well, it's Justin Bieber. I don't care. He's got Wonder
in his music.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Be curious, wonder be You know what happens with experiences
a wonder arrow. You know the best thing? The result
of it is it makes us more open minded and
more curious to try new things. So if you have
a cardinal moment or you hear a wondrous song on
the radio, it'll trigger you to want to go find
(19:51):
more wondrous stuff, and it'll make you more likely to
try something new. So we need wonder to keep us
open minded.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
See that.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
That's like all the science shows that open mindedness is
a huge part of Wonder, that whole personality factor called openness. Me,
Wonder will make you more open.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
That's like yesterday there was a woman and we were
at we were talking about New Year's Eve. What do
you do being Peruvian, What do you do for New
Year's Eve? Do you go out and celebrate listening to
live music, dance? And she looks at me and she goes, no,
we take ten grapes and we eat them beneath the table.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
And I'm like, what, I've never heard of this before.
And she says, it's good luck for the year.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
And I said, if see, if I was not interested,
or if I didn't have that moment of wonder, I
would have never learned that.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Thank you for saying that. And it was interest and
curiosity and being tuned into somebody outside of what's in
your own list.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Yes, crazy, Yeah, what a crazy generator?
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Love I love it. Well, you've got a great sense
of cheery and openness your self, Era, because of you.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Because interviews, you give me permission, You give me permission
in your writing.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
So yeah, because of you.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Well, you know, I just think that the best people
who interview and do this, and like I did with
the people I wrote about in my book, it's that
curiosity and wonder just come from this incredible like it's
almost like humility, right Era, we don't know all the answers.
(21:34):
We're okay with just being open, you know, we just
want to keep learning, and more than learning, we just
want to be kind of connected to how other people
see the world. We don't want to be alone. Wow.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
You know, Oh, I love your attitude. Where can people
go vow and shoot me book our next conversation in
two thy thirty.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Wow, this is really fun. Well, you know, if you
want to, we can always talk again later to this
year if you want. But you know, wonder really will
help us stay younger, keep our brains more agile, and
give us resistance to all the negativity and cynicism in
(22:19):
the world. It's so important to keep that fresh perspective,
you know. So with all that said, I would say
that if you read my book, I also have this
really fun, very lively little guide to Wondrous Things, so
(22:44):
you can check out movies and nature videos and music
videos and have your you know, like I lists, for example,
the music from Neptune from Holtz the Planet. I might
list these wondrous So in my book I include a
(23:06):
guide to wondrous Things at the end. So I'm just saying,
have fun exploring things that make you wonder even more.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Well, please come back to this show anytime in the future.
You did it ride value. You didn't waste any time
getting the hold of me, and you see where we
are today and now we can pass that wonder forward.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Well, thank you so much. I really enjoyed talking to you, Arrow,
and keep up the good wonder and yeah, keep being
wondrous and curious.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Excellent. Will you be brilliant today?
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Okay, thank you, all right,
You think life is moving quickly. I've got a decade's
worth of conversations with everybody who's appeared on NBC's The Voice.
You can check them all out one place. Arrow dot net,
A R r Oe dot net. It's the podcast titled
That Voice. Hello and good morning everybody.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hello Arrow.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
What's going on, miss val Walker?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Oh it's Monday, But I have good things to share
with you.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Well see that's my kind of news, because I'll tell
you what. The last time that you and I broke
bread together, I mean we were I mean seriously, when
you go back and you look at it, we were
on the brink of something that was about ready to
change the entire planet. We spoke a week, week and
a half before the whole COVID lockdown went into places.
And of course the name of that book at that
point in time was dealing with friends and things. And
(00:49):
I'm going, oh my god, she lived this book before
it was even released.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
It's so strange how it all worked out. It's interesting
because us so much of what I was saying in
that book. Yes, we had to figure out a way
to do it during the pandemic. So wow, it was amazing.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
The timing it really was, and so is the timing
on this one too. Healing through wonder, because there are
a lot of people that are stranded right now with
their mental as well as their courage, and the reason
why is because they don't know where to go. I mean,
I keep hearing these stories.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
I guess it's time to give up. The second Coming
is coming. I'm going, Oh, we're not quitting there, don't
do that. There are answers to be found. You got
to go get them, though.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
You're right, and it would really help if you could
just get off the phone and stop doom scrolling through
ch TikTok or whatever, and just step out. Notice the red
cardinal that just landed near your window, and you might
have a moment of wonder. And it sounds I don't
want to sound romanticizing and simplifying, but all all the
(02:00):
neuroscience shows that even thirty seconds of something that takes
your breath away arrow. It could be a song that
comes on the radio, it could be a bird that
pops in. It could be a ray of light from
a rainbow that shows up. Please stop and just notice
(02:22):
and wonder will put you out of your head.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
But you talk about that red cardinal. My studio is
actually we built it twenty three feet off the forest
floor so I could be up here in the trees
with the birds, and so I see my cardinals every
single day. And then just over here to my left
is a beautiful lake. And when I read this story
about you and the blue heron, I went, my God,
she's been in my studio. She has been in my studio.
She knows about the blue heron that are always out here.
(02:49):
I mean, but you're so right about that.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Yeah, well, actually see. I start my book with a heavy,
heavy story from way back in the nineteen seventies. Yep,
I'm dating myself. I was running from domestic violence, and
I was homeless, and I was really depressed. And the
one person in my whole life that I trusted and
(03:16):
loved had just died, my grandmother, Viv. So I had nobody.
I didn't have a family who was supportive. It was
only my grandmother and she died. So I'm running from
this violent man. I'm homeless, and I was ready to
take an overdose of valium. I was sitting by the
(03:36):
James River back in Virginia, where I'm from, in a campground, desolate, desolate.
In my story starts where I'm about to kill myself
with an overdose of valium because I can't take this life.
And I went ahead and started to swallow those pills.
(03:58):
But this enormous, majestic blue hair and landed about ten
feet away from me and stared at me. You know
how those big birds when they stare at you.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
They see right through, They sure do.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
It was sold to Soul Connection Era Errow, and I
stopped swallowing those pills, and my whole life changed after that.
I swore I thought maybe my grandmother had had something
to do with that Heron in Spirit. I don't know,
(04:35):
But one thing about my book is I don't want
to magically say it's the after life speaking to me.
I sort of leave everything open to being wondrous about things.
It could be spiritual, it could be scienced. We won't
just need to stay open. So after that Heron experience,
(04:57):
I ended up writing about awe and wonder and how
it can help people from not only I mean, from
feeling like giving up, but also help us live with
depression and anxiety and a lot of other trauma and grief.
And so the people that I profiled in my book
(05:21):
also are dealing with addiction or grief or trauma.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
So I have these other stories that go along with
mine where they had a moment of wonder that changed
their life. See, so thanks for hearing that.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
And that's one of the things that I picked up
on this story, and I really did in my own words.
I literally thanked you for including other people, because somewhere
inside that collection of stories that you've got, somebody that's
picking up this book is going to see themselves in
their experience, in their words, and that's where things begin
to change when we can see ourselves somewhere else and
(05:57):
how they were able to move through that resilience, that
hope as well as that connection.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Yeah, because there's so many ways to find wonder. Yeah,
we can have it in music. You can go to
you know erow, I know, you know the feeling of
being at a concert where thousands of people are feeling
that vibe and vibe into the music. That's a powerful
feeling of awe that changes that can really change your life.
(06:25):
You feel at one with other people. You know, something
comes to you that gives you faith in humanity. When
you're at a concert like that.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Well, see, I can relate with that Vale because I
am that live performer. I do live off that energy
and when and when they're giving me that energy back
and I'm up on that stage. My god, how do
you even put something like that into words? Until I
read it from people like yourself, Val about how you
know that experience becomes something that's personal to them.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
And I'm going, that's why I'm there.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
It's not because of me, It's because I'm there for them.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yeah, And all the neuroscience shows it's hard to put
into words. These experiences of awe are beyond words. They're inexplicable.
And the neuroscience shows that takes us out of this
is like a word. Everybody can remember the default mode network,
(07:22):
and that is the part of your brain that wants
to control and figure things out and know what's going
to happen next. But a moment that takes your breath away,
like a concert or a blue heroin that you know
shows up like that. A moment like that literally switches
(07:43):
your mind right out of default mode network and it
puts you right in the present moment where your brain
is able to take in what we cannot explain.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
In that amazing it is and it creates questions. And
maybe that's just me.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
I'm always, you know, looking for that next you know thing,
because when you plant a seed like that, of course
my mind is going, okay, I'm going to take her
there then and and that place I want to take
you is how did you make these connections with people
and to understand their side of the story when you've
got your own trauma story and you didn't make it
about value, made it about them. You're making it about
us that are on the receiving side of this page.
(08:24):
Do you see the evolution there? It's it's like the
site the seed that becomes the tree. The tree sacrifices
it's life so it has paper. Here comes the writer.
The writer puts their words on paper. Now you've got
a receiver and saying, oh my god, there's an entire
journey here.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Val Well, damn, this is the thing that made me
want to write the book I had written about my
blue hair and experiences like thirty years ago and during listen,
all through the pandemic, all this new research was coming
out on on Wonder from the neuroscience.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Yeah, and I.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Actually I'm a blogger for psychology today. So I was
reading other colleagues who were writing articles on all I'm wondering.
I was going, Wow, the science is showing that we
lose our sense of time when we're in an all moment,
that our default mode network is unlocked and deactivated when
(09:22):
we're in an all moment. That when we're in an
all moment, we're better able to be with other people
who are different than we are because we're all sharing
the same experience, like during the eclipse. Yes, So what
I'm trying to show is what made me want to
write the book was neuroscience was just coming out with
(09:46):
how AWE isn't just this magical childlike thing in us,
But it was like giving respect in validating awe as necessary,
and especially in these times when we're so caught up
in our technology and on our screens, we have to
have awe to stay human.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Do you suggest that people sit down with a writing
instrument and describe what was your awe today, even if
it was a tiny awe, Let me hear your awe.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yes, you know, we don't need to have big, big,
huge awe experiences like the hair and things that happened
to me like it doesn't have to be that big.
It can be little moments, did you know, just little
daily moments. Just inviting those little moments, it makes a difference.
(10:36):
And science shows it's the little moments that take your
breath away, those little pauses that are just as valuable.
So we've got to make room in our lives to
have moments that take our breath away and that we're
just sort of feeling humble and open. And the more
(10:58):
our experiences we have, the more open we are to
just actually it opens us our curiosity and our wonder.
It helps us prevent us from cynicism and all the
negativity in the world. It's like our resistance to all
(11:20):
that negativity is to like really put onto your daily life.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Please do not move. We're coming right back with Val Walker.
How's the Wonder in your life? Healing through Wonder, the
latest book from Val Walker. We're back.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
You're such a motivation to me in the way that
because you know, one of the things that I did
during the lockdown was because I was starving for people.
So I went and got a job at a grocery
store just because that was the only place where people were.
And what I've learned is that I do not believe
there's such a thing as grumpy old man's syndrome. I
do not believe that that women are grumpy to it.
(11:58):
And what I do is I I'll challenge myself and
I'll tell employees, I'll say, watch this. We all know
them as being a grumpy person. They're never in a
good mood. You give me five minutes with them, and
I guarantee I'm gonna have them laughing. And it's only
because you're going over there to listen, listen to what
they're because they're all carrying their own personal weight. What
if we prove or just kind of share something with them,
(12:19):
the art of listening so somebody can say they heard me.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
My God, they heard me.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
You know, all experiences teach us how to tune in
to other people. It gets us out of that fing
default mode network of our brain that wants to control everything.
It lets us step in and tune in to people
and life around us. Yeah, because boy do we need
to be able to do that.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Trauma and grief come in so many shapes and sizes.
Whatever you had as trauma will not be like somebody else's.
And that's like when people say you ask him me.
You say, how you doing today? I'm okay, whoa, whoa?
Hold on? Just okay, look at how bright that son
is out out there? Did you see that blue heron
out there?
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Just okay, right right?
Speaker 2 (13:06):
And you know, we should feel really happy and grateful
that we're able and willing to have the one in
our life, because it really is a choice. Yeah, and
it's a you know, we don't have to have a
special privilege, you know, on wonder come free to us.
(13:28):
And it's so sad that we think we have to
take an exotic vacation, you know, or stay tuned into
something to have like an exciting experience. God, if we
could just learn to just look outside the window, we
can have these moments if we're open to it.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
If you could see out my window, if you could
see out my window right now, there is a female cardinal.
It's outside my window right now. And I just wish
that that the female cardinals had the confidence of the
bright red cardinals, because they don't get the attention. And
the female cardinals do that the men do. And yet
this cardinal, I swear to God, it's not even three
feet from me. We're talking about birds, and I'm telling
(14:11):
you that bird right there knows we are talking about cardinals.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Amen to that. I know, everything gets so tuned in
when you're open to wonder and awe. It's like it
becomes a magnet. You start seeing things around you. It's amazing.
And I just think we get so just we get
really bad habits with our brains and tune out stuff
(14:36):
and think we have to be on screen. You know
what's really sad is let's say you're having an alle
moment with those cardinals arrow and you're so caught up
wanting to take a picture for Instagram. You're all caught
up in that damn thing of getting the picture out
but missing the moment.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, yeah, Well let's go go back to that live performance,
because the answer I really wanted to give you vow,
oh yeah, I've been to that concert. Out there in
the crowd, you mean, I was the only one that
was looking at that stage and everybody else was looking
at their phones because they had their cameras up there.
So I mean that and that I want to go
back to the days of the concerts where you actually
everybody got together and enjoyed that.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Concert, right, And like the Coldplay concerts, tells everybody to
put their phones away for the you know sky full
of Stars song. You know, like I've watched that, but
I wasn't live. I wish I could say I've gone
to one. But she brings in the magic.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Yeah, yeah, I love them.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
So now, what is the next level of this book?
Because you've got something in First of all, the last
one we talked about was was the one in twenty twenty.
This one goes deeper and it's more outreach. I mean,
what what what is the next step of it? Are
you going to podcasts? Are you going to go on
a tour where you can speak? I mean, because you can't.
You cannot just let this book sit at a bookstore.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Oh less you for saying that. Arrow. You've always made
my day when I talk to you, I tell you
so thank you for that. I first of all, I
have spoken on this topic to groups of people that
are dealing with the loss of loved ones due to substantues.
I've been part of some conferences where I've been a
(16:22):
keynote speaker talking about how wonder and Awe help us heal.
So yes, I've been already speaking on this at grief
conferences and for addiction and for trauma. But here's the
bigger thing. I will be on some more podcasts and
(16:42):
for example, Larry Rifkin with America Trends and some others. Yeah,
and so I am getting around getting the word out.
But the big mission for me is arrow. There are
a lot of people who don't realize just how valuable
their sense of wonder isn't They don't realize what a
(17:04):
healing force, how powerful it is. They just think it's
like this childhood side of them. Yeah, you know, I
have a sense of wonder, but that's not a big deal.
I wrote this book to show that it is a
big deal and it could actually help save our lives,
especially with depression and trauma.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Well, one of the things that you are in this
book is well focused. And here's the reason why. Because
when I look at the word wonder and I see
how I wrote it inside my daily writing, my wonder
doesn't look like wonder. It looks like wonder. And so
therefore the learning lesson there is am I wandering through
wonder thinking that I've got this thing made and maybe
(17:46):
the focus needs to be on the wonder and stop wandering.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
You know, you're right because so much of what happens
with a real moment where that default network. You know,
I told you about that default mode network. When you're
having a true moment of wonder in awe, you stop
thinking about what you're doing. You're just there in the moment. Yeah,
(18:11):
you see, So you don't wander around trying to focus.
All makes you focus automatically and naturally, And you know,
a lot of us feel like we've lost our focus.
But let the natural things that like take your breath
away teach you how to focus again. So if that
makes sense, you know, a lot of it is if
(18:34):
you know ways that you can find the things that
are wondrous to you, like the herons, or like your cardinals,
or like music or a certain piece of music, you
can go ahead and create that wonder.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
So it's so funny that because that's that you keep
bringing up the music. And it reminds me of a
feature that I have on iHeartRadio that goes up today
and and one of my big things my soapbox is
is I wish people would put away the old songs
and discover the new ones, because these artists are busting
tail to get a You can get anything out there,
And if we're stuck on listening to past songs, these
(19:11):
poor artists up today are not being heard. And so
I say, I will, I will always make it. So
go wonder. Go listen to a modern band, somebody you know.
Go go listen to the new album from Justin Bieber,
and I bet you you're gonna like it.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Well, it's Justin Bieber. I don't care. He's got Wonder
in his music.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Be curious, wonder be You know what happens with experiences
a wonder arrow. You know the best thing? The result
of it is it makes us more open minded and
more curious to try new things. So if you have
a cardinal moment or you hear a wondrous song on
the radio, it'll trigger you to want to go find
(19:51):
more wondrous stuff, and it'll make you more likely to
try something new. So we need wonder to keep us
open minded.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
See that.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
That's like all the science shows that open mindedness is
a huge part of Wonder, that whole personality factor called openness. Me,
Wonder will make you more open.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
That's like yesterday there was a woman and we were
at we were talking about New Year's Eve. What do
you do being Peruvian, What do you do for New
Year's Eve? Do you go out and celebrate listening to
live music, dance? And she looks at me and she goes, no,
we take ten grapes and we eat them beneath the table.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
And I'm like, what, I've never heard of this before.
And she says, it's good luck for the year.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
And I said, if see, if I was not interested,
or if I didn't have that moment of wonder, I
would have never learned that.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Thank you for saying that. And it was interest and
curiosity and being tuned into somebody outside of what's in
your own list.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Yes, crazy, Yeah, what a crazy generator?
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Love I love it. Well, you've got a great sense
of cheery and openness your self, Era, because of you.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Because interviews, you give me permission, You give me permission
in your writing.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
So yeah, because of you.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Well, you know, I just think that the best people
who interview and do this, and like I did with
the people I wrote about in my book, it's that
curiosity and wonder just come from this incredible like it's
almost like humility, right Era, we don't know all the answers.
(21:34):
We're okay with just being open, you know, we just
want to keep learning, and more than learning, we just
want to be kind of connected to how other people
see the world. We don't want to be alone. Wow.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
You know, Oh, I love your attitude. Where can people
go vow and shoot me book our next conversation in
two thy thirty.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Wow, this is really fun. Well, you know, if you
want to, we can always talk again later to this
year if you want. But you know, wonder really will
help us stay younger, keep our brains more agile, and
give us resistance to all the negativity and cynicism in
(22:19):
the world. It's so important to keep that fresh perspective,
you know. So with all that said, I would say
that if you read my book, I also have this
really fun, very lively little guide to Wondrous Things, so
(22:44):
you can check out movies and nature videos and music
videos and have your you know, like I lists, for example,
the music from Neptune from Holtz the Planet. I might
list these wondrous So in my book I include a
(23:06):
guide to wondrous Things at the end. So I'm just saying,
have fun exploring things that make you wonder even more.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Well, please come back to this show anytime in the future.
You did it ride value. You didn't waste any time
getting the hold of me, and you see where we
are today and now we can pass that wonder forward.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Well, thank you so much. I really enjoyed talking to you, Arrow,
and keep up the good wonder and yeah, keep being
wondrous and curious.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Excellent. Will you be brilliant today?
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Okay, thank you, all right,
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