October 27, 2025 • 51 mins
Are you struggling -- or you know someone who is? You want to get help, but there are no places to turn in your community, and you don't want anyone to know you have a problem. Did you know that only 10% of addicts seek treatment? The other 90% of addicts are stuck, feeling as if there are no options. Society has become ill and when we have sick family members, we get help for them. We are all members of the human family, and we need to learn the tools available to make our family whole again.
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ASharpe Outlook is broadcast live Mondays at 8AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). ASharpe Outlook TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
ASharpe Outlook Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/asharpe-outlook--6643730/support.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal, counseling,
professional service, or any advice. You should seek the services
(00:23):
of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Hello and thank you for tuning in to a Sharp
Outlook on K four HD Radio and Talk or TV.
I am Angela Sharp, your host. Our arm chair discussions
with industry experts will give you the steps, tools and
information to be successful in business and to prepare you
to be your best self.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Hello and welcome to a Sharp Outlook. I'm Angela Sharp,
and today we want to talk about pretty much the
state that the country, the world is in right now,
and we want to start helping those that are hurting
to connect. We need to start connecting the disconnected. Are
(01:17):
you struggling or you know someone who is. You want
to get help, but there are no places to turn
in your community and you don't want anyone to know
you have a problem. Did you know that only ten
percent of addicts seek treatment the other ninety percent of
addicts are stuck feeling as if they have no options.
(01:42):
One in five individuals suffer from mental illness and it
is and it is the number two cause of disability
in the country. Suicide is the tenth leading cause of
death in the US. One in three adolescents students have
been bullied. One in five teens have witnessed online bullying.
(02:06):
Forty seven percent of parents report a child victim of bullying,
and forty percent of people experiencing bullying on a weekly
basis in the workplace. Our society has become ill. And
when we have the sick family, what do we normally
do We get them some help. We don't watch our
(02:30):
family suffer and not reach out to try to help.
We try to get help for our families because we
are all members of the human family and we need
to learn about the various tools available to make our
family whole again. Unlike other treatment approaches, Red Path, which
(02:52):
we're going to discuss today, doesn't give you the tools
to safely revisit your traumas. Their holistic program draws your
attention to the effects that are having on your life today.
They understand that you are the only person who can
own your trauma and it is part of your life
(03:15):
story and you alone carry it with you. Through the
Red Path process, anyone can come to terms with their
past and work towards building a brighter future. Through online
peer supports, self directed exercises, and visual graphic aids. We
give you the tools you need to help you find
(03:37):
your own way out, to help you build a new
life free from the traumas of the past. My guest
today is Peggy Shaughnessy, and across the substance abuse misuse
continues to be a growing concern. There is a need
for an alternative approach to substance abuse treatment and aftercare.
(04:00):
Well that's where Peggy Shaughnessy comes in. She has developed
a program that is offering skills to address underlying problems
associated with addictive behaviors. Peggy is the founder of White
Path Consulting and the developer of the Red Path programs.
She has worked extensively with the Correctional Service of Canada
(04:23):
to educate staff and management on Indigenous issues, to provide
needs assessments for Aboriginal men and women offenders, and has
developed programs to assist people in their life struggles. Her
programs deal with issues relating to addiction, domestic abuse, bullying
and empowerment. Since two thousand and four, the Red Path
(04:46):
Treatment Program has been changing lives and communities in Canada
by focusing on trauma that lies at the heart of
an addiction and helping people educate themselves about the reasons
they are struggling on the ground. The program has achieved
remarkable results and for many, especially people living in remote
(05:07):
areas where addiction and abuse often is unnoticed, it became
clear that a different approach was needed and Shaughnessy is
an author of a new book contributed for Writings, manuscripts,
and journals. She is known as the Emotions Warrior in
her passionate struggle to transform healing and wellness programs for
(05:31):
those struggling in the life journey. Peggy currently holds her
honors Bachelor of Science and master's degree and recently received
her PhD. She harbors a profound belief in the power
of connecting the disconnected through Aboriginal knowledge and worldview. I
(05:54):
would like to ask Peggy to join me so we
can talk about Red Path and how we can help
our sick family members.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Hi, Peggy, good morning. How are you this morning.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
I'm great looking forward to sharing this information so that
someone that knows someone that's hurting, or even someone that's
listening that is struggling right now can seek help and
to get healthy and to get whole and to be
able to live, you know, discover how they can start
building a life of happiness and contentment and wellness. Can
(06:29):
you elaborate on the Red Path program?
Speaker 5 (06:32):
So I developed the Red Path Program as a result
of working in federal prisons and seeing that, you know,
these men that I worked with was mainly men, were
really suffering.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
And so there was an elder named Old George that
at one time worked in the person he's passed on now,
and he used to tell us the story all the
time that we had four rooms. We had the physical room,
the emotional room, in the psychological room, in the spiritual room,
and if we didn't visit each one every day, we'd
never be in harmony. And you know it's funny. We'd
(07:06):
hear this story over and over until finally it hit
me that most people can't even open the doors in
those rooms. So that took me to the table to
create what I consider the four room theory and sort
of the model of the Red Path programs where you know,
in the physical room is where we hold our trauma
in all those things that like we've gone through in
our life, those events that have caused us hassles in
(07:29):
our life. Maybe not the right word, but let's say
hassles in our life. And then in the emotion room,
the emotions that are attached to those events. And in
the physical room, really what are the questions the unanswered
questions that really don't have an answer, you know, like,
for instance, why did that happen to me? You know?
(07:49):
Why am I stupid? Why am I not good enough?
Like all of those questions that we that really have
no answer. And then in the spiritual room, what do
we usually do as an outcome? Do we you know,
use do we cut ourselves? What do we do as
an outcome of all those things? And I tell my
clients all the time and the people going through the program,
(08:11):
I can undo your events. They happen to you, they're
part of your life, but I can work with you
on the impacts that they've done on your life. And
I think that's sort of where what we do here
in our center is different, because we're looking at the impacts.
We don't get them to keep repeating the same story
over and over and then it just is the story
(08:32):
of their whole life. How does somebody do the coherent
whole of their life their whole life story rather than
a piece of it. And so we get them unepacked
things throughout the process of the program and in using
that four rooms and that eventually you use those four
rooms to unpack it. But then once you've unpacked it
(08:54):
and you are in your daily life, you can if
you've had a real bad day today, you can say, oh,
my boss was the jerk? You know, what was the
emotions tied? What was my thinking? And what am I
going to do? I'm going to use the four rooms
as a tool. So what started out sort of as
a model became the main tool of the program then
where you teach people how to unpack what they're carrying
(09:17):
through a slow process, and then how can I use
it them once I've unpacked so that I don't keep
keeping things inside any longer. So what became a theory
became the main tool within the program itself.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Wow, that sounds wonderful because it makes you acknowledge all
the areas that are being effective by an event that
happened that you keep repeating, you keep reliving, because you
keep retelling the story so many times you become that
story over and over and over instead of, like you say,
going through those rooms and you know, setting free. But
(09:56):
it's probably pretty scary to open those doors. Yeah it is,
And a.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
Lot of times they're so locked up it takes a
while to even get the lock off them in order
to open them, right, And and so that sometimes sometimes
people go through our programs more than once. You know
that it's like that onion, you know, you start at
the skin and then you keep unraveling it or and
and people tend to go not always, but go through
(10:24):
it more than once, just because going through the process
and the support as well. Right So, because often once
somebody stops listening to your story, often that's when people
will go back to their old habits. So you know,
I can tell my story over and over again, and
(10:45):
then nobody is there to listen anymore, So what good
is that story? And so that's what I think some programs,
perhaps some people fall through the cracks as a result
of that of not really coming to the end understanding
on why I was doing that. In the first place.
It's always looking at the why rather than the behavior itself. Right.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
I used to go to the alcohol drug treatment centers
here in the state of Washington on a weekly basis,
just counseling and you know, with those clients that were
there and hearing their stories and and just you know,
(11:29):
just listening to some of the things that had happened
in their lives and you know how they're going to
try to, you know, get past that. I tried to
deal with it from a spiritual basis, you know, bring
them to that spiritual door. You're you are valuable, you
are enough, you are worthy, you are special, you are gifted,
(11:51):
you know, just trying to give them to think about
something other than the trauma. And then the drugs brought
on trauma too, And the addiction is a lot harder
to stop than most people think. You think it's like, oh,
you know, over eating, you just stop eating something. But
it's a little more difficult, it seems, because, yeah, the
(12:15):
the the chance of them healing is quite a fight.
You've also done work in the prison system to bring
healing to incarcerated individuals. You know, what was your treatment
like dealing with those that really feel extended hopelessness.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
Well, so that's where my passion lies is working with
the hardest of the hardest. I guess I piloted the
Red Path program in in a maximum prison and a
medium institution with high risk populations mainly and in mainly
indigenous populations at that time. I've sort of expanded since that.
But and so I think that everyone has the right
(13:01):
to heal. I think everyone does, and for these men
to make a lot of them more lifers, so they
might not get out for twenty five years, but they
still had to live their daily life. And I look
at I wasn't just happy helping the men that I
was putting through the program, but making it a little
bit safer for those that were guarding them as well.
(13:22):
And so if you could keep the prison at less tension,
that there would be less opportunity, I guess you could
say for a riot or something within it. For instance,
one person I was sitting in there was fifty three
stabbings in fifty one days. They sent me in to
interview the men there to see if we could get
(13:44):
some calmness in the person. And so that's sort of
how Redpath was developed, was through the prison they didn't
have programming that could help people. And I'm a researcher
at the university, so we did a research component to
it to look at, you know, the different scales and
that's where I developed what I call the AAI and
(14:05):
that's one hundred and two questions where we can we
use the four rooms sort of it. The numbers fit
into those rooms and we look at optimism like different anxieties,
you know, performance anxiety, like how will people do in
social anxiety? How well will that person do in a
group setting? And where what area that they probably need
(14:26):
the most work kids. So those scales came out of
the prison as well, because in Canada we have quite
a few prisons, so I was able to do, like
on the reliability in the validity component of that scale,
collect the data from all federal persons in Canada. So
I have this database so somebody couldn't just say, well
they were the worst of the worst that you did
(14:48):
that the pilot with. So that's where our programs that
we use here came out of, is that that sort
of pilot programs within the federal persons. And then it
took me to Guam. I trained some tomorrow people in
Guam on our programs there as well. So they read
a book that a chapter of my work was in
(15:08):
and they asked me to come. So I been to Guam.
It's a really awesome place. And and so I don't
know they were hoping to use it the prisons there
as well. I don't know if they ever had the
chance to.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Yeah, yeah, I I also used to go to prisons.
They were mainly men prisons. And then this is difficult
for me. I was assaulted and have my own trauma
(15:41):
that I needed to deal with, and I was advised
to actually go back to the prison. I said, I
can't look at those people. Yeah, And then I did
go back and I shared with them what had happened
to me, and one by one, different ones stood up
(16:04):
and said, I'm sorry that happened to you. I'm sorry
that I did that to someone else. And I mean
the whole room was crying by the time they all finished,
and it helped me break through the door and heal.
(16:24):
I just I just needed to hear that I'm sorry,
and I think they needed to say I'm sorry. And
it was sure, it was just an amazing moment. I
don't you know, but I understand what you're saying, I
(16:44):
really do. Why do you feel Indigenous spirituality was so
crucial in assisting in, you know, those that were incarcerated.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Well, I've always been an advocate and I've always he's
been a fighter. I came from poverty, and you know,
I've had my own issues with abuses and that as well.
And you know, you often wonder why you go into persons,
and one of the reasons I went into the federal
persons in Canada was, you know, it wasn't until nineteen
eighty five that Indigenous offenders who are allowed their first
(17:20):
sweat inside the person. You know, we've had Muslim leaders
that were able to go into Kingston Penitentiary as early
as eighteen ninety nine, and Indigenous populations in Canada weren't
allowed to have their first sweat, which is a very
sacred thing, in nineteen eighty five. And so to practice
spirituality inside a person in Canada still as difficult, and
(17:45):
I think that's sort of what took me into the person.
I was a student, my undergraduate I went in through
the Indigenous Studies department at Trent University and to visit
the Brotherhood and saw that they didn't have a voice,
and so I saw the strength of the sweat lodge
when I'd be there to help with that so that
(18:06):
they could have it, and I saw the strength that
that gave them, and so I knew that, you know, my,
when I started my business, it was to help men
coming out of person and so I named it White
Paths Consulting because in Cherokee, when you translated, it means contentment,
happy trails, and that to give these men, and so
(18:28):
I wanted, like, like you said, my, my, it's always
been connecting the disconnected, and I know that that's what
really when these men were able to find their their
indigenous spirituality for some for the first time inside a
prison wall and they felt connected, I knew that, you know,
that had to be part of of the healing processes,
(18:49):
connecting the disconnected through that. Like you see that in language,
you know, and the indigenous language is nothing like the
English language. If you look at the Irish language, it's
the same. You know in Ireland that will fight that
a country with out a language is a country without
a soul, and I think that is so true here
in Canada as well, for indigenous populations across the country.
(19:12):
That language is the most important. So it is that connection.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Yeah, it really truly is. And you know, I know
some people have gone to the boarding schools, the residential
schools years ago and taking away their language and their
culture and things like that. It was like taking a
part of who they are away and losing that connection
(19:37):
to you know, your historical past. Is it leaves you
wandering around, don't know where you belong, and it does.
It is really important for them to be connected. Those
sweats are powerful. I know at the treatment centers up here,
they would they allowed them to have the sweats and
(20:00):
it really helped them to you know, get stronger, get
their identity, get that strength from you know, the singing
and the drumming and the prayers, and so it was, Yeah,
it's really really important to do that. What are some
of the techniques that can change trauma and institutional life
(20:23):
and move it from brokenness towards transformation and healing.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
Well, I think first is a lot of people have
lost their connection with their family, with the people that
love them, and I think it's that sense of belonging
and I think that that hug we always I used
to get into trouble in the prisons, the wardens would say,
you can't touch those men, and I'd say, well, then
kick me out, because I'm giving them a hug before
I leave, sort of thing, right, And it's that human connection.
(20:49):
And you know, there's people that come to our center
that I tell them I love them because my heart
really does. And is that professional? Probably not, but oh well,
that's why it's my own center. And so I think
that that's the start. But a clan mother once told
me that we should teach people things four different ways
and then everybody will leave knowing something. And so in
(21:11):
our programs, we use storytelling, we use pictures, we use
different exercises, so they have to do group work. Who
takes over that leadership that usually sometimes is the most
quiet person. So we try to do things still in
a way that it goes from one session to the next,
but that there is so many different ways to do
(21:35):
it that you know that everybody's leaving unpacking something. And
so I think that that human connection and that that authenticity.
I guess that's what people usually thank me for, is
my authenticity. Sometimes it's not really good words that I say,
but they might not be in the dictionary. Some of
them that I say, But I think that's the main thing.
(21:59):
I have a few people that have come right from
the hospital, but you know, they attempted suicide, and you know,
I make some of them text me twice a day
and might I just might have to press it and
send a heart back that I read it, but they
know somebody else on the other side read it. Yeah,
So you know, you wouldn't want like five hundred people
doing that every day. For you, it's nice to go
(22:20):
home and sort of relax. I do pottery on the side,
so I like to unwine some days. But I think
just to know that there's somebody that cares mm that
just that connection, just that little heart.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Yeah, it means somebody, somebody noticed me. Somebody knows I'm alive,
somebody recognized that I exist. I mean that's just so important.
When you're isolated and there's no one reaching out or
coming into contact with you, well, I just can't even
imagine that kind of loneliness. That's torture within itself. Own
(23:01):
some of the other things, you know, going to the
corrections facilities, are there tools for the staff and management
so that you know they can maybe be more helpful
in the prison systems.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
So over the years, you know, Canada, you know, are
forced to maybe not forces in the word that to
hire a percentage of different racial people, like and so
for indigenous populations, they have hired some indigenous people. Often
those are the very people that cause more trouble than
(23:39):
the person before them. I don't know if they are
trying to prove themselves or not. Also there's staff trainings
where they have people come in to teach them. So
over the years, it's been a few years now that
I've gone in and discussed residential schools and hit treaties
and historical things. But you know, a lot of times
(24:02):
the staff, you know, there is high percentages of racism
and discrimination. And so when you're forced to do something,
when it's a mandatory thing, you know how how much
listening is happening. Like I don't know if you can
see here, but in my office, I have a big
picture here of residential school.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
Just to remind people, you don't need a whole lot
of discussions when you see that picture. Yeah yeah, So
I mean, you know, hopefully a few people when you talk.
I don't I think it's unfair to say none of
them wanted to learn that. But you know, in Ontario,
(24:45):
we pretend here that there's no racism and discrimination. When
you go to the west and you go to the prisons,
like in Winnipeg, sat Saskatchewan, in those provinces, it's in
your face, like when they know you're coming to see
and the indigenous population, they bring out the dogs. They
you know, it might make you wait for two hours
to get in to see the men. But in Ontario
(25:08):
they pretend it isn't here. And sometimes I think it's
easier when it's in your face. You see it coming well,
swept under the rug. You never know when it's going
to come up. You know.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
The most perplexing thing for me is I don't I mean,
I can say that during all of my career, I've
never been approached with racism. I don't know. Maybe it's
that look where she's not the one, don't say anything
to her. I'm not sure. Or maybe it's just you know,
(25:42):
angels protecting me. But when you really think about it,
and we are thinking about the fact that we have
one creator and he created everything in the earth, and
he even created the human beings in the earth, you
can't be angry with me because I am of some
(26:02):
different or have more melanin or something like that. We
only have one race. It's the human race. We are
one family, the human family. I don't care what other
boxes you want to try to throw people in, you
still come back to. We have one earth, we have
one set of oceans and seas. We have, you know,
(26:27):
one group of people, and they're all part of the
same race. You know they you know, we might have
different colors. I want to just tell you, if you've
got an issue with that, why don't you go up
to the holy heavens and go tell the Creator you
hate what he created. God, I bet you we have
(26:48):
a really deep conversation, and you're not gonna like the
results of that conversation.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
Go check it out.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
I mean usually when next time you pray, go just
shout out to him, I can't stand those other people
you made, and then look up because lightning might be coming.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
And told me that it's not our job to judge. Yeah,
it's the Creator when you get there, Yeah it will.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
It's even spelled out in all the books that they're reading,
but they don't listen to that. And to have those
kinds of emotions and feelings. I'm here to tell you
will not be seeing that great golden city, but there
will be some place for you, and you're not gonna
like it. And is it worth? Is it worth eternal
(27:39):
life in fire? I mean, think about that. I mean,
it's such a ridiculous behavior. And I mean that too.
I'm not calling your names. I'm telling you your behavior
is ridiculous because you act as if we had a choice.
So since we didn't, you need to talk to the
(27:59):
one who made that choice and YouTube battle it out
and work it out and have fun with that because
you're not going to like the results at all, and
there will be there will be judgment for it, and
I don't think you're gonna enjoy that. But that's a
whole another show.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
You have.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
You've even I mean you were talking about, you know,
sharing all that information with them and about the boarding schools.
But you even had an opportunity to testify at the Semen,
the Senate Human Rights Committee about issues affecting an indigenous population,
specifically those that are incarcerated. Is there any progress?
Speaker 4 (28:52):
So I was called as an expert witness with my background,
with my work for many years to this Senate and
they questioned me the Senate in regards to they were
doing a study on incarceration, people being put in segregation
and what I thought, and of course I'm going to
(29:14):
talk about Red Pass in my programs. I don't know
whatever came about from that report. It was a long,
long study and I never really heard much from that.
But I mean, we do have a good Senate. We
have no several people that sit on the Senate, and
I know that they're always fighting, but I mean, you
look at government, it just seems to be government is
(29:36):
policy and a lot of talking. Often you don't see
much change from the talking to the reality often, which
is the sad part when government really is about policy
and and not.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
The not the working bees, you know, yeah so and
getting them to actually do something. I tell you that
it's another foreign emide because I have to pay I'm
not even I don't even have a choice. I have
(30:12):
to pay taxes to pay their salaries for them to
play games with people's lives and take away people's benefits
and allow people to be hungry and homeless and naked
and no heart, no empathy. I just don't understand that
(30:34):
kind of behavior. I mean, I just wonder I wish
I could have find someone who can tell me what's
wrong with that person's heart, that you can sit there
and watch people be homeless, or watch them be bullied,
or watch them have no food and get glee out
(30:54):
of that. I mean, that's talk about being sick. Now,
that's a sickness too.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
But you know, well, I think what happens is there's
so many layers that everybody thinks the other layer is
going to do something. So you know, we elect people
that really aren't experts in any area that they're asked
to look at. And so what I've come to the
conclusion in all the years that I've thought sort of
(31:18):
that very system is I don't think I belong in
the system. And how do I leave that system and
walk outside the system? And how does community heal community?
Like if we think, after all the mess that we're in,
it didn't just happen overnight. It progressively happened where we're
already now in the world, in the world, not just
in our own little areas of our countries. This is
(31:40):
happening across the world. And so I think, as people
within the world, it's time that we step outside that
system and community, start healing community, just like it would
have been when my great great grandparents were working with
each farms or whatever in order to build their land
or whatever it was. I think it's up to us
(32:02):
now is to get on our feet and start community,
healing community, because we can't. If we keep being relyant
on a government, we're going to be even in worse mess. Yeah. Yeah,
So I think it's time to step outside the systems
because the systems aren't helping right.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
And what's so interesting is me being an accountant and
also a tech person. You know, everything is within systems.
But one thing I can say, I started out when
when there wasn't even a personal computer around, and now
we have, you know, personal computers in our little phones
(32:45):
and watches and things like that. So I've watched the
progress going outside of the system. We could have said, oh,
you know, it's always going to be that way, but no,
someone said, no, we need to create a new system
and create a new system. Now we have AI trying
to create a new system. This is a revolution for
a whole new system. But why haven't we tried to
(33:07):
have a new system of how we treat one another?
I mean, that's so you're right. Community by community, we
have to get healthy, and each healthy community go help
the other sick communities become Well, that's connecting the disconnected,
because we need to get connected.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
Yeah, because I think what's happening is like, there's a
few things, but one of the things, the things that
I hear that I just cringe, is well, every word's
like that, And I say, when are we going to
stop that rhetoric? And when are we going to start
saying everyone might be like that, but we're not going
to be like that anymore. Like I have eight grandchildren,
(33:50):
and if to the day I die, I will fight
to get this system or at least a foundation. So
like my grandson works for me, he's twenty two this year.
My daughter that works for me, And so I know
that if I should die tomorrow, which I hope I don't,
but if I should, that they can step in. They've
been trained enough that they can step into my shoes.
(34:10):
And I know for at least three generations it'll continue
after I die. And so my job and my my
time is to set that foundation. And how are we
going to move outside the system, and how are we
going to get people behind us in order to move
it forward and so that I look at you know,
that is my job that the creator set me to do,
(34:33):
and then it that I have to work there that
it can then continue because we've got to stop using
same Well everyone's like that, like, if this is how
bad it is now, what's it going to look like
in ten years if we don't spreak?
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Right, Yeah, we have to and and that's what that's why,
you know, we have the elders who can identify, you know,
the mess that our generation might have created. Now it's
time to clean and clean the mas us up and
give them this generation in future generations a chance of
(35:06):
not only making money, that's all they think about, but
living in harmony, living in peace, respecting one another, regardless
of who the person is, respecting one another. Even if
they've been incarcerated. They made a decision that they had
to go behind bars for a period of time, but
(35:27):
they're still human. Now it's a matter of okay, brother, okay, sister,
you're now home. Let's see what we can do to
help you get your life to the point where you
can start living your dreams. You can start, you know,
fulfilling some of your hopes instead of pointing fingers. So
(35:50):
it's just well, well, I want to talk about you
were inducted in the Peterborough Pathway Way of Fame this year.
How'd that feel.
Speaker 4 (36:05):
Well, just to explain what it is is these big
stones that go into the ground in one of our
areas that there's music fest and all that outdoors. So
your name get herded into this pathway. And so when
I first found out, I thought, oh, somebody can pee
on me now on that pathway. That was the first thing.
I've been nominated so many times. I used to have
(36:27):
a restaurant, and I've done a lot of businesses within
the city, and I've been nominated for business Women of
the Year, and it got to the point where I thought,
even if I was the only person that was nominated,
I'd probably still not win. So it was quite a
surprise because I was nominated for both the Barphill Humanitarian
Award and the Samaritan Award, so I won the top
(36:51):
award at it. There was eight people that were inducted,
and so yeah, it was really nice because somebody that
nominated me with somebody I'm not even really close to.
So it just shows you there are people that are
watching you within your community. I've been fighting and working
hard for the less fortunate my city for twenty years,
(37:12):
so you know, it's sort of nice coming to the
end of my well, I don't I'm sixty seven, so
not quite near the end of my life, I hope,
but you know, as you as you, as you're growing older,
it's sort of nice to see that recognition. So and
it was a lovely evening, the induction and stuff like that.
So yeah, it was it was an honor.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
Oh yeah. I mean being heard is such a gratifying experience.
I mean, we go out here, we work, we do
different things, but we're not sure that people are really listening,
have really heard us. And just to know that you're
being heard, I mean, that's got to feel pretty good.
They heard you, they heard you.
Speaker 4 (37:54):
It's interesting the amount of people that come forward and say,
like you know that you don't really even know, saying, oh,
you've done this, this and this, and you know it.
Then you think, well, maybe it's worth it because you're
not doing it for yourself anyhow. You're doing it for
the people that you're walking beside. And I think that
you know, it brings their stories to the forefront. Two
because in September they did a documentary on me, and
(38:17):
so about two hundred and fifty people. So that was
September seventh, which was my birthday. We had about two
hundred and fifty people come out to watch that, and
then two days later was the Pathway of Fame. And
then right to October tenth, I defended my PhD. So
it's been really an overwhelming month. And then today we're
having all our city councilors come through our new building
(38:39):
that we're in right now, so while we're speaking, they're
going through, so like a lot of things are happening.
And then we're hoping to build a wellness center in
the spring in another area not within the city, so
a lot's really happening. So like all of the fights,
and so just anybody listening, don't ever give up on
(38:59):
your It might sometimes you might get tired and you
just wonder if it's worth it at the end of
the day. Like I've been doing this twenty years, I
just wonder what the hell, Like I quit nursing twenty
years ago, twenty five years ago, so I would continue
this journey. And you know, is it always been easy?
Not at all? But I think that looking back now,
(39:22):
each step gave me something new to move to the
next step. And if I hadn't, like you know, it
took me ten years to do my doctorate, but I
wouldn't have been able to write what I wrote six
years ago. So it took that long because it needed
to take that long so that I gained more knowledge
and more information in order to write what was more relevant.
(39:44):
And so I think that for all of us in
the human race, we all have to take steps to
get I think to for a society that's going to
be healed.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
Well, I'll tell you, going out helping someone else is
probably the most gratifying thing I've ever done in my life.
To know just that time that I spent, that time
that I gave, that time that I shared changed people's lives.
(40:18):
You know, I can't find any vacation or trip that
makes me feel better. Then I know that just some
words or some time or whatever has changed someone's direction
and now they are succeeding, and now they are well,
(40:39):
and now they have hope. That's really really important. And gosh,
and you were talking about the documentary film, is it
available for someone for us to see?
Speaker 4 (40:52):
So I'll let you know when, but I know that
the film, the documentary film maker, he's entered it into
a contest. Because it's been entered in there, she can't
put it up onto YouTube or anything yet, but when
it is or I might be able to just share
it with you, lease see it, but I can't put
(41:13):
it out onto YouTube or anything yet until we know
if it's been accepted into a film festival or whatever
she wanted to enter it in.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
Okay, great, Okay your why Path Counseling Consulting provides training
for Red Path programs and facilitators. How does someone sign
up for this valuable training?
Speaker 4 (41:37):
So right now, we've been training all across Canada. We've
been really really busy doing that. I have two staff
that travel. We also do it online as well. We've
never done it into the States, and it's something that
I've always really wanted to do. It's a three day training.
Like I said, we can do it online. If anyone's interested,
(41:59):
please feel free to so call us. I'll give you
the number to call, and we trained people. It's a
manual in it also, you're given the AAI and you
get people to fill that out and we do the
analysis on that. So a lot, and we train people
(42:19):
on how to use that scale as well, and you
become a license facilitator to run it and then you
have a manual to run a twenty session program in
your own communities.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
Yeah, well, I you know, I know it's something very
very very much needed here in the States. And so, yeah,
them being able to reach out to be able to
take those trainings, and you know, I've done a lot
of trainings for different types of knowledge we were trying
(42:55):
to do and training the trainer or facilitators and having
them go out you know, it's a great way of
getting that knowledge and getting that wellness out there where
people can actually become a whole. So, yeah, if you'll
share that, if there's if there's any uh, real rich
(43:19):
people watching this, I want to partner to open a
Red Path wellness center in the States.
Speaker 4 (43:24):
I'm really happy to do that as well.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
Yeah, what's your info?
Speaker 4 (43:29):
What's your It's Peggy at Redpath dot Io, okay, and
seven O five seven four zero two zero zero three
is our office number.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
Okay, great, that's really really important. And so what what
kind of explained to me what is the importance of
connecting the disconnected.
Speaker 4 (43:59):
Well I say, think that it doesn't take a whole
lot to look across our own countries right now, and
we are truly living in a disconnect and so to
connect people back to living to be the authors of
their own story. Like like we've always said, we have
a video out there, a YouTube video, red past Social
(44:23):
network or red past, Like it's a whiteboard video. I
don't know if you've ever seen it. It sort of
talks like going through that. You see, how if we're
able to live in in harmony, we're going to be connected.
And so that's really an important thing. And I think
that when we see people starting to connect with themselves,
(44:46):
we see that glow again. And you know, as a nurse,
I remember, you know, it's it's not hard to look
at somebody and know that they're going to have Alzheimer's
because they have that empty, empty look in their eyes.
You look in their eyes and you can't see their
soul almost anymore. Right, It's this emptiness. And and I
see that with a lot of people with coming through
(45:07):
my door that are in a really bad state with
addiction in particular, and there's that emptiness there too. And
I think that once you can get somebody connected back
to maybe their soul. I'm not sure what they're connecting to.
You see that twinkle back in their eye, and so
I think it's a very easy thing to see. And
we see that once we when they start seeing a blow,
(45:30):
the people around them want to get better as well.
And so next thing, you know, they're bringing a friend
here because their friend sees them glowing and they want
to be like that. Right when all as we're doing
is handing out pipes and needles and and that's our solution.
We're in trouble.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
Yeah, yeah, well see, And that's that's the one thing
about the whole so called healing planned. You know, everything,
is you start getting federal dollars or any kind of
government dollars, they're not really even looking at the goal
of making people whole is how many units did you see?
(46:12):
You know, it's all about the stats. It's not about
the success of these people becoming you know, viable citizens,
becoming healthy, becoming dreamers, becoming people with purpose. They don't
even care. It's like, okay, how many units. So then
everybody's forced to just see as many people as possible,
(46:32):
but maybe not be able to spend the time to
get them all the way through the program. So, I mean,
when we talk about changing systems, there's a lot of
systems we need to look at what is our goal.
If our goal is to actually help those people to
be on their feet, to have a dream, to have
(46:52):
a purpose, to become whole, become connected to society and community,
then you just can't run them through. You know, a
couple couple of days talks and everything's okay, and no
follow ups and things. It takes some time, and they
don't want to spend the money for the success. They
(47:12):
just want to say, Okay, this is what we do
with the money. We saw two hundred people, We saw
five hundred people. But then of the five hundred, how
many people have succeeded? Oh okay, well the percentage was
two percent. So do you think there's something wrong with
the program?
Speaker 4 (47:30):
But one of the biggest problems is so I they
can blame the addict. So I give you five million
dollars and I say, but Angela, the problem I look
outside is still the same. And you say, well, they
don't want to quit. Like when you have a vulnerable population,
you can put the blame back on them. Yeah, you can.
(47:53):
You don't have to take any responsibility. But you've done
with that money, right, and nobody's at because I can
blame you. And so that's where the biggest problem is,
especially when you're looking at funding and money. Everybody's running
after the same money and everybody as long as you
got all the right words in that you know, proposal,
(48:18):
but nobody's questioning you because you can blame that person
because they they're weak. You know, it has nothing to
do with what you're not doing. The lens needs to
go maybe on some of these organizations on really what
are you doing? There's not enough watchdogs mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (48:40):
But but the thing is, like I said, if they
would actually change the narrative in the program itself or
the funding you know, of the funds that they're giving
out and so that it you know, you're actually wanting
to succeed, then we would have more people that are
(49:01):
are connecting that and not falling through the cracks and
things like that. Like I said, there's a whole there's
a whole bunch of systems that need to be put together.
Speaker 4 (49:11):
Well, if you if you told me that, if I
showed you success, I get a million extra dollars. Yeah,
then then you're going to see a change, but you're
going to see if I got money because I showed
the greatest success of all the organizations. All the organizations
are going to pull up their socks a little bit
higher than they were.
Speaker 3 (49:31):
The Oh, that is a great idea. That's definitely a
great idea for all of those who are actually ones
that are funders. Let's let's let's look at what you're
doing and kind of modify that a little bit so
that we have a huge success rate. Peggy, thank you
so much for being here this morning. I really enjoyed
(49:53):
this conversation. I know our audience has learned a lot,
and I'm hoping to see Red Path Services popping a
ball ower the US because yeah, well I'm just getting
these people whole is the best thing possible.
Speaker 4 (50:13):
Thank you so much for being here.
Speaker 3 (50:16):
You too, and thank you for watching A Sharp Outlook
Connecting the disconnected. This is our topic today. We're here
every Monday at eleven am Eastern time eight am Pacific time,
and as always, stay informed. I want to thank you
(50:41):
for joining us on a Sharp Outlook. We have been
informed and energized to take the next steps. We have
posted links to websites and videos to learn more on
today's topic. Please join us again next week for another
thought provoking conversation right here on key for H Radio
and Talk for TV.
Speaker 2 (51:03):
Listen to the podcast on all the podcast apps, and
until next week, stay informed.
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal, counseling,
professional service, or any advice. You should seek the services
(00:23):
of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Hello and thank you for tuning in to a Sharp
Outlook on K four HD Radio and Talk or TV.
I am Angela Sharp, your host. Our arm chair discussions
with industry experts will give you the steps, tools and
information to be successful in business and to prepare you
to be your best self.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Hello and welcome to a Sharp Outlook. I'm Angela Sharp,
and today we want to talk about pretty much the
state that the country, the world is in right now,
and we want to start helping those that are hurting
to connect. We need to start connecting the disconnected. Are
(01:17):
you struggling or you know someone who is. You want
to get help, but there are no places to turn
in your community and you don't want anyone to know
you have a problem. Did you know that only ten
percent of addicts seek treatment the other ninety percent of
addicts are stuck feeling as if they have no options.
(01:42):
One in five individuals suffer from mental illness and it
is and it is the number two cause of disability
in the country. Suicide is the tenth leading cause of
death in the US. One in three adolescents students have
been bullied. One in five teens have witnessed online bullying.
(02:06):
Forty seven percent of parents report a child victim of bullying,
and forty percent of people experiencing bullying on a weekly
basis in the workplace. Our society has become ill. And
when we have the sick family, what do we normally
do We get them some help. We don't watch our
(02:30):
family suffer and not reach out to try to help.
We try to get help for our families because we
are all members of the human family and we need
to learn about the various tools available to make our
family whole again. Unlike other treatment approaches, Red Path, which
(02:52):
we're going to discuss today, doesn't give you the tools
to safely revisit your traumas. Their holistic program draws your
attention to the effects that are having on your life today.
They understand that you are the only person who can
own your trauma and it is part of your life
(03:15):
story and you alone carry it with you. Through the
Red Path process, anyone can come to terms with their
past and work towards building a brighter future. Through online
peer supports, self directed exercises, and visual graphic aids. We
give you the tools you need to help you find
(03:37):
your own way out, to help you build a new
life free from the traumas of the past. My guest
today is Peggy Shaughnessy, and across the substance abuse misuse
continues to be a growing concern. There is a need
for an alternative approach to substance abuse treatment and aftercare.
(04:00):
Well that's where Peggy Shaughnessy comes in. She has developed
a program that is offering skills to address underlying problems
associated with addictive behaviors. Peggy is the founder of White
Path Consulting and the developer of the Red Path programs.
She has worked extensively with the Correctional Service of Canada
(04:23):
to educate staff and management on Indigenous issues, to provide
needs assessments for Aboriginal men and women offenders, and has
developed programs to assist people in their life struggles. Her
programs deal with issues relating to addiction, domestic abuse, bullying
and empowerment. Since two thousand and four, the Red Path
(04:46):
Treatment Program has been changing lives and communities in Canada
by focusing on trauma that lies at the heart of
an addiction and helping people educate themselves about the reasons
they are struggling on the ground. The program has achieved
remarkable results and for many, especially people living in remote
(05:07):
areas where addiction and abuse often is unnoticed, it became
clear that a different approach was needed and Shaughnessy is
an author of a new book contributed for Writings, manuscripts,
and journals. She is known as the Emotions Warrior in
her passionate struggle to transform healing and wellness programs for
(05:31):
those struggling in the life journey. Peggy currently holds her
honors Bachelor of Science and master's degree and recently received
her PhD. She harbors a profound belief in the power
of connecting the disconnected through Aboriginal knowledge and worldview. I
(05:54):
would like to ask Peggy to join me so we
can talk about Red Path and how we can help
our sick family members.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Hi, Peggy, good morning. How are you this morning.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
I'm great looking forward to sharing this information so that
someone that knows someone that's hurting, or even someone that's
listening that is struggling right now can seek help and
to get healthy and to get whole and to be
able to live, you know, discover how they can start
building a life of happiness and contentment and wellness. Can
(06:29):
you elaborate on the Red Path program?
Speaker 5 (06:32):
So I developed the Red Path Program as a result
of working in federal prisons and seeing that, you know,
these men that I worked with was mainly men, were
really suffering.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
And so there was an elder named Old George that
at one time worked in the person he's passed on now,
and he used to tell us the story all the
time that we had four rooms. We had the physical room,
the emotional room, in the psychological room, in the spiritual room,
and if we didn't visit each one every day, we'd
never be in harmony. And you know it's funny. We'd
(07:06):
hear this story over and over until finally it hit
me that most people can't even open the doors in
those rooms. So that took me to the table to
create what I consider the four room theory and sort
of the model of the Red Path programs where you know,
in the physical room is where we hold our trauma
in all those things that like we've gone through in
our life, those events that have caused us hassles in
(07:29):
our life. Maybe not the right word, but let's say
hassles in our life. And then in the emotion room,
the emotions that are attached to those events. And in
the physical room, really what are the questions the unanswered
questions that really don't have an answer, you know, like,
for instance, why did that happen to me? You know?
(07:49):
Why am I stupid? Why am I not good enough?
Like all of those questions that we that really have
no answer. And then in the spiritual room, what do
we usually do as an outcome? Do we you know,
use do we cut ourselves? What do we do as
an outcome of all those things? And I tell my
clients all the time and the people going through the program,
(08:11):
I can undo your events. They happen to you, they're
part of your life, but I can work with you
on the impacts that they've done on your life. And
I think that's sort of where what we do here
in our center is different, because we're looking at the impacts.
We don't get them to keep repeating the same story
over and over and then it just is the story
(08:32):
of their whole life. How does somebody do the coherent
whole of their life their whole life story rather than
a piece of it. And so we get them unepacked
things throughout the process of the program and in using
that four rooms and that eventually you use those four
rooms to unpack it. But then once you've unpacked it
(08:54):
and you are in your daily life, you can if
you've had a real bad day today, you can say, oh,
my boss was the jerk? You know, what was the
emotions tied? What was my thinking? And what am I
going to do? I'm going to use the four rooms
as a tool. So what started out sort of as
a model became the main tool of the program then
where you teach people how to unpack what they're carrying
(09:17):
through a slow process, and then how can I use
it them once I've unpacked so that I don't keep
keeping things inside any longer. So what became a theory
became the main tool within the program itself.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Wow, that sounds wonderful because it makes you acknowledge all
the areas that are being effective by an event that
happened that you keep repeating, you keep reliving, because you
keep retelling the story so many times you become that
story over and over and over instead of, like you say,
going through those rooms and you know, setting free. But
(09:56):
it's probably pretty scary to open those doors. Yeah it is,
And a.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
Lot of times they're so locked up it takes a
while to even get the lock off them in order
to open them, right, And and so that sometimes sometimes
people go through our programs more than once. You know
that it's like that onion, you know, you start at
the skin and then you keep unraveling it or and
and people tend to go not always, but go through
(10:24):
it more than once, just because going through the process
and the support as well. Right So, because often once
somebody stops listening to your story, often that's when people
will go back to their old habits. So you know,
I can tell my story over and over again, and
(10:45):
then nobody is there to listen anymore, So what good
is that story? And so that's what I think some programs,
perhaps some people fall through the cracks as a result
of that of not really coming to the end understanding
on why I was doing that. In the first place.
It's always looking at the why rather than the behavior itself. Right.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
I used to go to the alcohol drug treatment centers
here in the state of Washington on a weekly basis,
just counseling and you know, with those clients that were
there and hearing their stories and and just you know,
(11:29):
just listening to some of the things that had happened
in their lives and you know how they're going to
try to, you know, get past that. I tried to
deal with it from a spiritual basis, you know, bring
them to that spiritual door. You're you are valuable, you
are enough, you are worthy, you are special, you are gifted,
(11:51):
you know, just trying to give them to think about
something other than the trauma. And then the drugs brought
on trauma too, And the addiction is a lot harder
to stop than most people think. You think it's like, oh,
you know, over eating, you just stop eating something. But
it's a little more difficult, it seems, because, yeah, the
(12:15):
the the chance of them healing is quite a fight.
You've also done work in the prison system to bring
healing to incarcerated individuals. You know, what was your treatment
like dealing with those that really feel extended hopelessness.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
Well, so that's where my passion lies is working with
the hardest of the hardest. I guess I piloted the
Red Path program in in a maximum prison and a
medium institution with high risk populations mainly and in mainly
indigenous populations at that time. I've sort of expanded since that.
But and so I think that everyone has the right
(13:01):
to heal. I think everyone does, and for these men
to make a lot of them more lifers, so they
might not get out for twenty five years, but they
still had to live their daily life. And I look
at I wasn't just happy helping the men that I
was putting through the program, but making it a little
bit safer for those that were guarding them as well.
(13:22):
And so if you could keep the prison at less tension,
that there would be less opportunity, I guess you could
say for a riot or something within it. For instance,
one person I was sitting in there was fifty three
stabbings in fifty one days. They sent me in to
interview the men there to see if we could get
(13:44):
some calmness in the person. And so that's sort of
how Redpath was developed, was through the prison they didn't
have programming that could help people. And I'm a researcher
at the university, so we did a research component to
it to look at, you know, the different scales and
that's where I developed what I call the AAI and
(14:05):
that's one hundred and two questions where we can we
use the four rooms sort of it. The numbers fit
into those rooms and we look at optimism like different anxieties,
you know, performance anxiety, like how will people do in
social anxiety? How well will that person do in a
group setting? And where what area that they probably need
(14:26):
the most work kids. So those scales came out of
the prison as well, because in Canada we have quite
a few prisons, so I was able to do, like
on the reliability in the validity component of that scale,
collect the data from all federal persons in Canada. So
I have this database so somebody couldn't just say, well
they were the worst of the worst that you did
(14:48):
that the pilot with. So that's where our programs that
we use here came out of, is that that sort
of pilot programs within the federal persons. And then it
took me to Guam. I trained some tomorrow people in
Guam on our programs there as well. So they read
a book that a chapter of my work was in
(15:08):
and they asked me to come. So I been to Guam.
It's a really awesome place. And and so I don't
know they were hoping to use it the prisons there
as well. I don't know if they ever had the
chance to.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Yeah, yeah, I I also used to go to prisons.
They were mainly men prisons. And then this is difficult
for me. I was assaulted and have my own trauma
(15:41):
that I needed to deal with, and I was advised
to actually go back to the prison. I said, I
can't look at those people. Yeah, And then I did
go back and I shared with them what had happened
to me, and one by one, different ones stood up
(16:04):
and said, I'm sorry that happened to you. I'm sorry
that I did that to someone else. And I mean
the whole room was crying by the time they all finished,
and it helped me break through the door and heal.
(16:24):
I just I just needed to hear that I'm sorry,
and I think they needed to say I'm sorry. And
it was sure, it was just an amazing moment. I
don't you know, but I understand what you're saying, I
(16:44):
really do. Why do you feel Indigenous spirituality was so
crucial in assisting in, you know, those that were incarcerated.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Well, I've always been an advocate and I've always he's
been a fighter. I came from poverty, and you know,
I've had my own issues with abuses and that as well.
And you know, you often wonder why you go into persons,
and one of the reasons I went into the federal
persons in Canada was, you know, it wasn't until nineteen
eighty five that Indigenous offenders who are allowed their first
(17:20):
sweat inside the person. You know, we've had Muslim leaders
that were able to go into Kingston Penitentiary as early
as eighteen ninety nine, and Indigenous populations in Canada weren't
allowed to have their first sweat, which is a very
sacred thing, in nineteen eighty five. And so to practice
spirituality inside a person in Canada still as difficult, and
(17:45):
I think that's sort of what took me into the person.
I was a student, my undergraduate I went in through
the Indigenous Studies department at Trent University and to visit
the Brotherhood and saw that they didn't have a voice,
and so I saw the strength of the sweat lodge
when I'd be there to help with that so that
(18:06):
they could have it, and I saw the strength that
that gave them, and so I knew that, you know, my,
when I started my business, it was to help men
coming out of person and so I named it White
Paths Consulting because in Cherokee, when you translated, it means contentment,
happy trails, and that to give these men, and so
(18:28):
I wanted, like, like you said, my, my, it's always
been connecting the disconnected, and I know that that's what
really when these men were able to find their their
indigenous spirituality for some for the first time inside a
prison wall and they felt connected, I knew that, you know,
that had to be part of of the healing processes,
(18:49):
connecting the disconnected through that. Like you see that in language,
you know, and the indigenous language is nothing like the
English language. If you look at the Irish language, it's
the same. You know in Ireland that will fight that
a country with out a language is a country without
a soul, and I think that is so true here
in Canada as well, for indigenous populations across the country.
(19:12):
That language is the most important. So it is that connection.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Yeah, it really truly is. And you know, I know
some people have gone to the boarding schools, the residential
schools years ago and taking away their language and their
culture and things like that. It was like taking a
part of who they are away and losing that connection
(19:37):
to you know, your historical past. Is it leaves you
wandering around, don't know where you belong, and it does.
It is really important for them to be connected. Those
sweats are powerful. I know at the treatment centers up here,
they would they allowed them to have the sweats and
(20:00):
it really helped them to you know, get stronger, get
their identity, get that strength from you know, the singing
and the drumming and the prayers, and so it was, Yeah,
it's really really important to do that. What are some
of the techniques that can change trauma and institutional life
(20:23):
and move it from brokenness towards transformation and healing.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
Well, I think first is a lot of people have
lost their connection with their family, with the people that
love them, and I think it's that sense of belonging
and I think that that hug we always I used
to get into trouble in the prisons, the wardens would say,
you can't touch those men, and I'd say, well, then
kick me out, because I'm giving them a hug before
I leave, sort of thing, right, And it's that human connection.
(20:49):
And you know, there's people that come to our center
that I tell them I love them because my heart
really does. And is that professional? Probably not, but oh well,
that's why it's my own center. And so I think
that that's the start. But a clan mother once told
me that we should teach people things four different ways
and then everybody will leave knowing something. And so in
(21:11):
our programs, we use storytelling, we use pictures, we use
different exercises, so they have to do group work. Who
takes over that leadership that usually sometimes is the most
quiet person. So we try to do things still in
a way that it goes from one session to the next,
but that there is so many different ways to do
(21:35):
it that you know that everybody's leaving unpacking something. And
so I think that that human connection and that that authenticity.
I guess that's what people usually thank me for, is
my authenticity. Sometimes it's not really good words that I say,
but they might not be in the dictionary. Some of
them that I say, But I think that's the main thing.
(21:59):
I have a few people that have come right from
the hospital, but you know, they attempted suicide, and you know,
I make some of them text me twice a day
and might I just might have to press it and
send a heart back that I read it, but they
know somebody else on the other side read it. Yeah,
So you know, you wouldn't want like five hundred people
doing that every day. For you, it's nice to go
(22:20):
home and sort of relax. I do pottery on the side,
so I like to unwine some days. But I think
just to know that there's somebody that cares mm that
just that connection, just that little heart.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Yeah, it means somebody, somebody noticed me. Somebody knows I'm alive,
somebody recognized that I exist. I mean that's just so important.
When you're isolated and there's no one reaching out or
coming into contact with you, well, I just can't even
imagine that kind of loneliness. That's torture within itself. Own
(23:01):
some of the other things, you know, going to the
corrections facilities, are there tools for the staff and management
so that you know they can maybe be more helpful
in the prison systems.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
So over the years, you know, Canada, you know, are
forced to maybe not forces in the word that to
hire a percentage of different racial people, like and so
for indigenous populations, they have hired some indigenous people. Often
those are the very people that cause more trouble than
(23:39):
the person before them. I don't know if they are
trying to prove themselves or not. Also there's staff trainings
where they have people come in to teach them. So
over the years, it's been a few years now that
I've gone in and discussed residential schools and hit treaties
and historical things. But you know, a lot of times
(24:02):
the staff, you know, there is high percentages of racism
and discrimination. And so when you're forced to do something,
when it's a mandatory thing, you know how how much
listening is happening. Like I don't know if you can
see here, but in my office, I have a big
picture here of residential school.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
Just to remind people, you don't need a whole lot
of discussions when you see that picture. Yeah yeah, So
I mean, you know, hopefully a few people when you talk.
I don't I think it's unfair to say none of
them wanted to learn that. But you know, in Ontario,
(24:45):
we pretend here that there's no racism and discrimination. When
you go to the west and you go to the prisons,
like in Winnipeg, sat Saskatchewan, in those provinces, it's in
your face, like when they know you're coming to see
and the indigenous population, they bring out the dogs. They
you know, it might make you wait for two hours
to get in to see the men. But in Ontario
(25:08):
they pretend it isn't here. And sometimes I think it's
easier when it's in your face. You see it coming well,
swept under the rug. You never know when it's going
to come up. You know.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
The most perplexing thing for me is I don't I mean,
I can say that during all of my career, I've
never been approached with racism. I don't know. Maybe it's
that look where she's not the one, don't say anything
to her. I'm not sure. Or maybe it's just you know,
(25:42):
angels protecting me. But when you really think about it,
and we are thinking about the fact that we have
one creator and he created everything in the earth, and
he even created the human beings in the earth, you
can't be angry with me because I am of some
(26:02):
different or have more melanin or something like that. We
only have one race. It's the human race. We are
one family, the human family. I don't care what other
boxes you want to try to throw people in, you
still come back to. We have one earth, we have
one set of oceans and seas. We have, you know,
(26:27):
one group of people, and they're all part of the
same race. You know they you know, we might have
different colors. I want to just tell you, if you've
got an issue with that, why don't you go up
to the holy heavens and go tell the Creator you
hate what he created. God, I bet you we have
(26:48):
a really deep conversation, and you're not gonna like the
results of that conversation.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
Go check it out.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
I mean usually when next time you pray, go just
shout out to him, I can't stand those other people
you made, and then look up because lightning might be coming.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
And told me that it's not our job to judge. Yeah,
it's the Creator when you get there, Yeah it will.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
It's even spelled out in all the books that they're reading,
but they don't listen to that. And to have those
kinds of emotions and feelings. I'm here to tell you
will not be seeing that great golden city, but there
will be some place for you, and you're not gonna
like it. And is it worth? Is it worth eternal
(27:39):
life in fire? I mean, think about that. I mean,
it's such a ridiculous behavior. And I mean that too.
I'm not calling your names. I'm telling you your behavior
is ridiculous because you act as if we had a choice.
So since we didn't, you need to talk to the
(27:59):
one who made that choice and YouTube battle it out
and work it out and have fun with that because
you're not going to like the results at all, and
there will be there will be judgment for it, and
I don't think you're gonna enjoy that. But that's a
whole another show.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
You have.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
You've even I mean you were talking about, you know,
sharing all that information with them and about the boarding schools.
But you even had an opportunity to testify at the Semen,
the Senate Human Rights Committee about issues affecting an indigenous population,
specifically those that are incarcerated. Is there any progress?
Speaker 4 (28:52):
So I was called as an expert witness with my background,
with my work for many years to this Senate and
they questioned me the Senate in regards to they were
doing a study on incarceration, people being put in segregation
and what I thought, and of course I'm going to
(29:14):
talk about Red Pass in my programs. I don't know
whatever came about from that report. It was a long,
long study and I never really heard much from that.
But I mean, we do have a good Senate. We
have no several people that sit on the Senate, and
I know that they're always fighting, but I mean, you
look at government, it just seems to be government is
(29:36):
policy and a lot of talking. Often you don't see
much change from the talking to the reality often, which
is the sad part when government really is about policy
and and not.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
The not the working bees, you know, yeah so and
getting them to actually do something. I tell you that
it's another foreign emide because I have to pay I'm
not even I don't even have a choice. I have
(30:12):
to pay taxes to pay their salaries for them to
play games with people's lives and take away people's benefits
and allow people to be hungry and homeless and naked
and no heart, no empathy. I just don't understand that
(30:34):
kind of behavior. I mean, I just wonder I wish
I could have find someone who can tell me what's
wrong with that person's heart, that you can sit there
and watch people be homeless, or watch them be bullied,
or watch them have no food and get glee out
(30:54):
of that. I mean, that's talk about being sick. Now,
that's a sickness too.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
But you know, well, I think what happens is there's
so many layers that everybody thinks the other layer is
going to do something. So you know, we elect people
that really aren't experts in any area that they're asked
to look at. And so what I've come to the
conclusion in all the years that I've thought sort of
(31:18):
that very system is I don't think I belong in
the system. And how do I leave that system and
walk outside the system? And how does community heal community?
Like if we think, after all the mess that we're in,
it didn't just happen overnight. It progressively happened where we're
already now in the world, in the world, not just
in our own little areas of our countries. This is
(31:40):
happening across the world. And so I think, as people
within the world, it's time that we step outside that
system and community, start healing community, just like it would
have been when my great great grandparents were working with
each farms or whatever in order to build their land
or whatever it was. I think it's up to us
(32:02):
now is to get on our feet and start community,
healing community, because we can't. If we keep being relyant
on a government, we're going to be even in worse mess. Yeah. Yeah,
So I think it's time to step outside the systems
because the systems aren't helping right.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
And what's so interesting is me being an accountant and
also a tech person. You know, everything is within systems.
But one thing I can say, I started out when
when there wasn't even a personal computer around, and now
we have, you know, personal computers in our little phones
(32:45):
and watches and things like that. So I've watched the
progress going outside of the system. We could have said, oh,
you know, it's always going to be that way, but no,
someone said, no, we need to create a new system
and create a new system. Now we have AI trying
to create a new system. This is a revolution for
a whole new system. But why haven't we tried to
(33:07):
have a new system of how we treat one another?
I mean, that's so you're right. Community by community, we
have to get healthy, and each healthy community go help
the other sick communities become Well, that's connecting the disconnected,
because we need to get connected.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
Yeah, because I think what's happening is like, there's a
few things, but one of the things, the things that
I hear that I just cringe, is well, every word's
like that, And I say, when are we going to
stop that rhetoric? And when are we going to start
saying everyone might be like that, but we're not going
to be like that anymore. Like I have eight grandchildren,
(33:50):
and if to the day I die, I will fight
to get this system or at least a foundation. So
like my grandson works for me, he's twenty two this year.
My daughter that works for me, And so I know
that if I should die tomorrow, which I hope I don't,
but if I should, that they can step in. They've
been trained enough that they can step into my shoes.
(34:10):
And I know for at least three generations it'll continue
after I die. And so my job and my my
time is to set that foundation. And how are we
going to move outside the system, and how are we
going to get people behind us in order to move
it forward and so that I look at you know,
that is my job that the creator set me to do,
(34:33):
and then it that I have to work there that
it can then continue because we've got to stop using
same Well everyone's like that, like, if this is how
bad it is now, what's it going to look like
in ten years if we don't spreak?
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Right, Yeah, we have to and and that's what that's why,
you know, we have the elders who can identify, you know,
the mess that our generation might have created. Now it's
time to clean and clean the mas us up and
give them this generation in future generations a chance of
(35:06):
not only making money, that's all they think about, but
living in harmony, living in peace, respecting one another, regardless
of who the person is, respecting one another. Even if
they've been incarcerated. They made a decision that they had
to go behind bars for a period of time, but
(35:27):
they're still human. Now it's a matter of okay, brother, okay, sister,
you're now home. Let's see what we can do to
help you get your life to the point where you
can start living your dreams. You can start, you know,
fulfilling some of your hopes instead of pointing fingers. So
(35:50):
it's just well, well, I want to talk about you
were inducted in the Peterborough Pathway Way of Fame this year.
How'd that feel.
Speaker 4 (36:05):
Well, just to explain what it is is these big
stones that go into the ground in one of our
areas that there's music fest and all that outdoors. So
your name get herded into this pathway. And so when
I first found out, I thought, oh, somebody can pee
on me now on that pathway. That was the first thing.
I've been nominated so many times. I used to have
(36:27):
a restaurant, and I've done a lot of businesses within
the city, and I've been nominated for business Women of
the Year, and it got to the point where I thought,
even if I was the only person that was nominated,
I'd probably still not win. So it was quite a
surprise because I was nominated for both the Barphill Humanitarian
Award and the Samaritan Award, so I won the top
(36:51):
award at it. There was eight people that were inducted,
and so yeah, it was really nice because somebody that
nominated me with somebody I'm not even really close to.
So it just shows you there are people that are
watching you within your community. I've been fighting and working
hard for the less fortunate my city for twenty years,
(37:12):
so you know, it's sort of nice coming to the
end of my well, I don't I'm sixty seven, so
not quite near the end of my life, I hope,
but you know, as you as you, as you're growing older,
it's sort of nice to see that recognition. So and
it was a lovely evening, the induction and stuff like that.
So yeah, it was it was an honor.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
Oh yeah. I mean being heard is such a gratifying experience.
I mean, we go out here, we work, we do
different things, but we're not sure that people are really listening,
have really heard us. And just to know that you're
being heard, I mean, that's got to feel pretty good.
They heard you, they heard you.
Speaker 4 (37:54):
It's interesting the amount of people that come forward and say,
like you know that you don't really even know, saying, oh,
you've done this, this and this, and you know it.
Then you think, well, maybe it's worth it because you're
not doing it for yourself anyhow. You're doing it for
the people that you're walking beside. And I think that
you know, it brings their stories to the forefront. Two
because in September they did a documentary on me, and
(38:17):
so about two hundred and fifty people. So that was
September seventh, which was my birthday. We had about two
hundred and fifty people come out to watch that, and
then two days later was the Pathway of Fame. And
then right to October tenth, I defended my PhD. So
it's been really an overwhelming month. And then today we're
having all our city councilors come through our new building
(38:39):
that we're in right now, so while we're speaking, they're
going through, so like a lot of things are happening.
And then we're hoping to build a wellness center in
the spring in another area not within the city, so
a lot's really happening. So like all of the fights,
and so just anybody listening, don't ever give up on
(38:59):
your It might sometimes you might get tired and you
just wonder if it's worth it at the end of
the day. Like I've been doing this twenty years, I
just wonder what the hell, Like I quit nursing twenty
years ago, twenty five years ago, so I would continue
this journey. And you know, is it always been easy?
Not at all? But I think that looking back now,
(39:22):
each step gave me something new to move to the
next step. And if I hadn't, like you know, it
took me ten years to do my doctorate, but I
wouldn't have been able to write what I wrote six
years ago. So it took that long because it needed
to take that long so that I gained more knowledge
and more information in order to write what was more relevant.
(39:44):
And so I think that for all of us in
the human race, we all have to take steps to
get I think to for a society that's going to
be healed.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
Well, I'll tell you, going out helping someone else is
probably the most gratifying thing I've ever done in my life.
To know just that time that I spent, that time
that I gave, that time that I shared changed people's lives.
(40:18):
You know, I can't find any vacation or trip that
makes me feel better. Then I know that just some
words or some time or whatever has changed someone's direction
and now they are succeeding, and now they are well,
(40:39):
and now they have hope. That's really really important. And gosh,
and you were talking about the documentary film, is it
available for someone for us to see?
Speaker 4 (40:52):
So I'll let you know when, but I know that
the film, the documentary film maker, he's entered it into
a contest. Because it's been entered in there, she can't
put it up onto YouTube or anything yet, but when
it is or I might be able to just share
it with you, lease see it, but I can't put
(41:13):
it out onto YouTube or anything yet until we know
if it's been accepted into a film festival or whatever
she wanted to enter it in.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
Okay, great, Okay your why Path Counseling Consulting provides training
for Red Path programs and facilitators. How does someone sign
up for this valuable training?
Speaker 4 (41:37):
So right now, we've been training all across Canada. We've
been really really busy doing that. I have two staff
that travel. We also do it online as well. We've
never done it into the States, and it's something that
I've always really wanted to do. It's a three day training.
Like I said, we can do it online. If anyone's interested,
(41:59):
please feel free to so call us. I'll give you
the number to call, and we trained people. It's a
manual in it also, you're given the AAI and you
get people to fill that out and we do the
analysis on that. So a lot, and we train people
(42:19):
on how to use that scale as well, and you
become a license facilitator to run it and then you
have a manual to run a twenty session program in
your own communities.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
Yeah, well, I you know, I know it's something very
very very much needed here in the States. And so, yeah,
them being able to reach out to be able to
take those trainings, and you know, I've done a lot
of trainings for different types of knowledge we were trying
(42:55):
to do and training the trainer or facilitators and having
them go out you know, it's a great way of
getting that knowledge and getting that wellness out there where
people can actually become a whole. So, yeah, if you'll
share that, if there's if there's any uh, real rich
(43:19):
people watching this, I want to partner to open a
Red Path wellness center in the States.
Speaker 4 (43:24):
I'm really happy to do that as well.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
Yeah, what's your info?
Speaker 4 (43:29):
What's your It's Peggy at Redpath dot Io, okay, and
seven O five seven four zero two zero zero three
is our office number.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
Okay, great, that's really really important. And so what what
kind of explained to me what is the importance of
connecting the disconnected.
Speaker 4 (43:59):
Well I say, think that it doesn't take a whole
lot to look across our own countries right now, and
we are truly living in a disconnect and so to
connect people back to living to be the authors of
their own story. Like like we've always said, we have
a video out there, a YouTube video, red past Social
(44:23):
network or red past, Like it's a whiteboard video. I
don't know if you've ever seen it. It sort of
talks like going through that. You see, how if we're
able to live in in harmony, we're going to be connected.
And so that's really an important thing. And I think
that when we see people starting to connect with themselves,
(44:46):
we see that glow again. And you know, as a nurse,
I remember, you know, it's it's not hard to look
at somebody and know that they're going to have Alzheimer's
because they have that empty, empty look in their eyes.
You look in their eyes and you can't see their
soul almost anymore. Right, It's this emptiness. And and I
see that with a lot of people with coming through
(45:07):
my door that are in a really bad state with
addiction in particular, and there's that emptiness there too. And
I think that once you can get somebody connected back
to maybe their soul. I'm not sure what they're connecting to.
You see that twinkle back in their eye, and so
I think it's a very easy thing to see. And
we see that once we when they start seeing a blow,
(45:30):
the people around them want to get better as well.
And so next thing, you know, they're bringing a friend
here because their friend sees them glowing and they want
to be like that. Right when all as we're doing
is handing out pipes and needles and and that's our solution.
We're in trouble.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
Yeah, yeah, well see, And that's that's the one thing
about the whole so called healing planned. You know, everything,
is you start getting federal dollars or any kind of
government dollars, they're not really even looking at the goal
of making people whole is how many units did you see?
(46:12):
You know, it's all about the stats. It's not about
the success of these people becoming you know, viable citizens,
becoming healthy, becoming dreamers, becoming people with purpose. They don't
even care. It's like, okay, how many units. So then
everybody's forced to just see as many people as possible,
(46:32):
but maybe not be able to spend the time to
get them all the way through the program. So, I mean,
when we talk about changing systems, there's a lot of
systems we need to look at what is our goal.
If our goal is to actually help those people to
be on their feet, to have a dream, to have
(46:52):
a purpose, to become whole, become connected to society and community,
then you just can't run them through. You know, a
couple couple of days talks and everything's okay, and no
follow ups and things. It takes some time, and they
don't want to spend the money for the success. They
(47:12):
just want to say, Okay, this is what we do
with the money. We saw two hundred people, We saw
five hundred people. But then of the five hundred, how
many people have succeeded? Oh okay, well the percentage was
two percent. So do you think there's something wrong with
the program?
Speaker 4 (47:30):
But one of the biggest problems is so I they
can blame the addict. So I give you five million
dollars and I say, but Angela, the problem I look
outside is still the same. And you say, well, they
don't want to quit. Like when you have a vulnerable population,
you can put the blame back on them. Yeah, you can.
(47:53):
You don't have to take any responsibility. But you've done
with that money, right, and nobody's at because I can
blame you. And so that's where the biggest problem is,
especially when you're looking at funding and money. Everybody's running
after the same money and everybody as long as you
got all the right words in that you know, proposal,
(48:18):
but nobody's questioning you because you can blame that person
because they they're weak. You know, it has nothing to
do with what you're not doing. The lens needs to
go maybe on some of these organizations on really what
are you doing? There's not enough watchdogs mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (48:40):
But but the thing is, like I said, if they
would actually change the narrative in the program itself or
the funding you know, of the funds that they're giving
out and so that it you know, you're actually wanting
to succeed, then we would have more people that are
(49:01):
are connecting that and not falling through the cracks and
things like that. Like I said, there's a whole there's
a whole bunch of systems that need to be put together.
Speaker 4 (49:11):
Well, if you if you told me that, if I
showed you success, I get a million extra dollars. Yeah,
then then you're going to see a change, but you're
going to see if I got money because I showed
the greatest success of all the organizations. All the organizations
are going to pull up their socks a little bit
higher than they were.
Speaker 3 (49:31):
The Oh, that is a great idea. That's definitely a
great idea for all of those who are actually ones
that are funders. Let's let's let's look at what you're
doing and kind of modify that a little bit so
that we have a huge success rate. Peggy, thank you
so much for being here this morning. I really enjoyed
(49:53):
this conversation. I know our audience has learned a lot,
and I'm hoping to see Red Path Services popping a
ball ower the US because yeah, well I'm just getting
these people whole is the best thing possible.
Speaker 4 (50:13):
Thank you so much for being here.
Speaker 3 (50:16):
You too, and thank you for watching A Sharp Outlook
Connecting the disconnected. This is our topic today. We're here
every Monday at eleven am Eastern time eight am Pacific time,
and as always, stay informed. I want to thank you
(50:41):
for joining us on a Sharp Outlook. We have been
informed and energized to take the next steps. We have
posted links to websites and videos to learn more on
today's topic. Please join us again next week for another
thought provoking conversation right here on key for H Radio
and Talk for TV.
Speaker 2 (51:03):
Listen to the podcast on all the podcast apps, and
until next week, stay informed.
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