Behind the Curtain: A Candid Conversation with Former Porn Producer Vic Lagina

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SPEAKER_07 (01:23):
All right, hey, my beautiful people.
Well, welcome to Axe NaomiBridging the Gap Podcast is
where we talk about love, sex,relationship, cultural
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I am your host, Naomi Banks, andas always, I am here to open up
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(01:46):
We're diving deep into stories,taboos, and real experience that
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But always, I am joined by myamazing co-host, Don Paul Mike.
Mike, what's going on, baby?

SPEAKER_05 (01:57):
You ready for this?
Yes, yes, I'm ready for thisone.

SPEAKER_07 (01:59):
You ready for this one?
You ready for this one?

SPEAKER_05 (02:03):
Yes, I am.
You already know.
It's gonna be wild today.

SPEAKER_07 (02:06):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know what?
So we're what we're gonna dotoday is we're going behind the
curtain.
We're going behind the curtainwith no other than Vic Legina.
Yes, I said Legina, author ofthe book Filthy.
He's a legendary formerpornographer who has helped
shape some of the most iconicmoments in adult entertainment.
Vic is here to talk about hisjourney, the highs, the lows,

(02:28):
and the lessons that I learnedalong the way.
But before we bring Vic tostage, we're gonna take a quick
break, alright?
It's your girl, goddess TommyBanks here on X Naomi Virginia
Gap Podcast, and we will beright back.

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SPEAKER_07 (03:15):
All right, well, welcome back to Axe Night
Podcast again.
I am your host, Naomi Banks.
I'm here with DogPow Mike Mike,and I am here with the legendary
author of Filthy, Mr.
Vic Legina.
Hey, hey, what's going on?

SPEAKER_00 (03:29):
How are you?
And thank you for having me on.
That was a great buildup.

SPEAKER_07 (03:33):
Yeah, it ain't it.
No.
It's been a long, long timesince I've seen you.

SPEAKER_00 (03:40):
Yeah, yeah.
No, it was interesting when westarted talking about booking.
I was like, that name isfamiliar.
I know it.
So I look up, go on thecomputer, check, I pull up your
IDs.
Not only did I realize you havethe same birthday as me, you're
just only one year older.
But I was like, that was the dayI shot you.
That was um literally inSeptember of 2011.

unknown (04:00):
Wow.

SPEAKER_00 (04:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That day was um, am I allowed touse uh uh curse words or do I
watch my words?

SPEAKER_08 (04:09):
Go ahead, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 (04:10):
Okay, the uh the website was Big Tits at School,
and it was with Tommy Gunn.
And it was um one of mydirectors because we were really
busy back then, so I hadmultiple directors under me, and
he is who shot you that day.

SPEAKER_07 (04:24):
Wow, yeah.
That was on my way out.
That was one year before I leftout.
I I retired in 2012.

SPEAKER_00 (04:30):
That's when I officially, yeah, when I
officially what what what causedyou to uh to leave at that
point?

SPEAKER_07 (04:37):
You know, it was a sign, and and I had a little one
that was coming that I wasblessed with.
So it was time that I've alwaysasked, when was the time for me
to leave?
You know, I would give me thesign, and that's exactly what he
did.
Um performing in front of thecamera, but I still stay
connected within the industry,you know, through certain
things.

SPEAKER_06 (04:55):
Um yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (04:56):
So for you, Vic, you know, let's let's go back.
Let's go back.
Tell us a little bit about yourearly life on what were your
dreams growing up, and did youever imagine your path would
take you to into the adultindustry?

SPEAKER_00 (05:10):
No, I didn't.
I didn't aspire as a kid to be apornographer.
However, uh, I grew up outsideof Philadelphia and uh had a
pretty normal childhood, uh,aside from losing my mother at
age 15, which was kind ofcrucial at a developmental stage
of you needing a strong woman inyour life at that point in time.
It was a pretty uh regularupbringing.

(05:33):
I loved TV, TV shows, movies,video games.
And then after you graduate, Iwas like, well, you're supposed
to expect it to go to college.
So then I went to SyracuseUniversity in upstate New York
and got a degree at uh theirtheir communication school at
New House for TV and filmproduction.
So this is what I was liketrained to do.

(05:54):
So it's just odd, you know.
And then after freezing inSyracuse, I go south to Miami
and I start working in themainstream side as a production
assistant, and then elevate toan editor and a producer and all
of that, uh, while getting mymaster's another degree in
production, which which wascompletely unnecessary,

(06:14):
especially with how I ended up,right?
But then I was like, here's theweirdest thing.
I was teaching college down inMiami.
So you have this guy with allthis higher education, and then
uh is teaching college.
And how does he end up in porn?

SPEAKER_07 (06:29):
Right, right.
What turn or go?
What when you go around thatcorner?
What happened?

SPEAKER_00 (06:34):
Well, so I doesn't all these stories kind of start
with a woman, you know, and uh arelationship that might not have
been a good relationship, butbut she was really pretty.
She was a model we had taken ona uh a production we were doing
in Jamaica, and we hit it offdown there, and she says, uh,
I'm thinking about moving to LA.
Would you like to come?

(06:55):
And you know, I had acomfortable life in Florida, but
it wasn't what I wanted to do.
I wanted to make TV shows, Iwanted to make movies, you know.
Um, and so we go there and uhI'll sum it up.
She she she had a lot of traumagrowing up.
Um, she stopped working tobecome a white female rapper at

(07:15):
one point.
That was what she wanted to do.
I thought it was a great ideabecause they were looking for
the feminine around that pointin time.
But the one small problem was Ididn't have any work in LA, so I
was funding our dreams on creditcards, like like a big dummy and
accumulating debt.
So all of the jobs that were inLA were more like interns or

(07:40):
assistants.
And I at that point I was acollege professor, I was a
producer, blah, blah, blah.
These jobs I'm more qualifiedfor.
So if I had humbled myself andmaybe took a job and worked my
way up, the story would haveended different.
Instead, I answered an ad onadultstaffing.com uh for um uh a
Mexican dude named Ricardo whowanted to shoot his own porn

(08:04):
movie, and he was paying$500.
And I'm like, yes, I could dothis for you.
And I bullshitted him a littlebit about it.
And I told him, I mean, I couldtold him I could help him.
I did have the experience, but Ididn't have experience in porn.
Okay.
So uh we go to Jim South'soffice, smoky office with
Polaroids everywhere, and wepick out our our stars for the

(08:28):
day, and my first day was Aprilof 2002 in a condo in the valley
where we shot four scenes thatday, one of which was with Ron
Jeremy and others that Iactually wound up seeing later
on later on when I was workingfor Brazzers, you know, so it
was pretty wild.
Um, so that's how it started.

(08:49):
Um, that day itself, I wouldsay, was a little interesting
for sure.
Um, especially since that wasthe first day I was actually
shooting people having sex oncamera, right?
So, so but you know, there wasone point where um people in the
condo, I'm not saying who itwas, were smoking crack.

(09:09):
Yeah, yeah.
And I was like, uh, you know,like this is not how I want to
run anything.
So I guess what you could say isthat first day, I guess showed
me how there's ways of doing itand not doing things.
So I applied those lessons onhow to run this thing
legitimately should I continue.
And that day I met one person,then met more people, and then

(09:33):
slowly this porn snowball startsto build.
Um, I'm very much in debt, so Ihave to get out of LA.
So I go back to Florida, and um,but I knew where to find the
leads at that time for contentproducers.
It was uh gofuckyourself.com.
And I would scour those, those,that page uh page like every day

(09:55):
looking for leads and wound upuh finding gigs and eventually
meet up with the dudes who wouldeventually start a little site
called Brazzers.

SPEAKER_07 (10:06):
Wow, wow.
So let me ask you this.
You know, you being a producerand a director for a lot of men,
I don't want to say all men ingeneralizing, that's one that's
a place that they want to be.
They want to be right there, thescene, right there for your
first day on set.
I know you said about the crackthat you saw on on set, but for
you, what was the other shockingthing that you said?

(10:27):
Or what um or most memorable?
Who was the very first personthat you shot and did they
become uh a big superstar pornstar?

SPEAKER_00 (10:38):
So the first couple scenes, no.
I think it was the either thesecond or third scene where we
had Shea Sites, who like, okay,so the the the money couple that
day was Shay Seites and NickManning, right?
Where we were paying top dollar,I guess, at the time for them.
So when you're paying topdollar, you expect top dollar.

(10:59):
And I have no knock against Shayat all, but Nick Manning was
kind of a dick, and he was evenmore so of a dick when his dick
wouldn't stay hard.
So he started yelling at people,and so I was like, okay, dude,
I'm gonna remember this.
And it's funny, years later,when things are booming for
brazzers, who wants to comeshoot for me?

(11:21):
Nick Manning.
And I'm like, no, not at all,man, because you were a dick
that day.
So I guess the lesson is, is youknow, bring your a game when you
show up to set.
But more importantly, like justbe cool, you know, be cool
because it could affect you downthe road.

SPEAKER_07 (11:38):
Right.
So let's go, let's let's moveover to Florida, uh, working
with Brazzers.
I remember when Brazzers firstcame out in the beginning.
Um, they like came in likelittle schoolboys just coming in
and doing their thing because itwas something you know totally
different from everything theywere doing.
For you, coming from abackground of you know,
production or anything likethat, was some of your ideas

(12:00):
brought to the full forefrontfor them?

SPEAKER_00 (12:03):
No, I think really, I mean, they kind of knew what
they were doing.
And the funny thing is, if youreally think about the humble,
humble beginnings of brozzers,so I would be in a hotel room,
like this is when I was reallyin the porn trenches in Florida
of all places.
And you're in this, I want tocall it CD hotel, but it wasn't
a nice hotel room.
And you're dealing like with acouple that you're shooting a

(12:26):
scene, and so they were like,Hey, hey, Vic, um, we need a tit
fuck scene.
We like this model, we'll payyou$200.
And so I'd be like, All right,uh, dude, do you have another
one in you?
And he's like, sure, why not?
So split that 200, 100 to you,100 to me, and what do you say?
And we would knock out thesereally quickie titfox scenes in

(12:47):
hotel rooms in South Florida.
Now that's where it started.
They started growing because ifyou know about it, you nailed
it.
They were like these youngdudes, you know, these young
frat bros out of ConcordiaUniversity in Montreal, and they
knew how to market porn on theinternet.
So those little tit fuck scenesthen spawn into tit fuck sites,

(13:09):
uh butt sites, and all of that.
And then they start getting alittle more creative, like mommy
got boobs and baby got boobs,and this is and then Doctor
Adventures that was like theirfirst scripted scene, uh uh
site.
So they would have me shootthese, and that I think is what
sold them on me, where this dudecan deliver, he's good, he's not

(13:32):
messing with our money.
We've like they met me face toface at that point in time, and
then what they said was um, youknow, if you move out to to LA
and you tap into the LA market,because Florida was was pretty
amateurish back then.
So uh they said if you do that,we'll keep you very busy.
And the truth is, my debt wasgone quick after I started

(13:55):
working full-time and porn downin Florida, to the point where
now I had this boom in business.
And when the credit card debt'sgone, you have a choice.
Do I go back to normal squarelife or do I follow this this
little uh munchkin of uh of acareer that could be getting me
into mischievous places?

(14:16):
Right.
And I I chose to do that, and umthat that journey was uh was
quite interesting for I'd say agood 16 years after those
Florida days.

SPEAKER_07 (14:27):
Right.
You as a producer and adirector, what what would you
see as the best biggestmisconception of uh the adult
industry?

SPEAKER_00 (14:36):
Uh I would love to say that they were everyone that
I worked with was asprofessional and as prepared as
I was, but that was not thecase, you know.
Um now for me being like comingfrom the mainstream side and
producing and understanding andrespecting a budget and knowing
deadlines and all of that andreally treating it like a

(14:58):
business, you know, I was Ithink that served me very well
in the industry because I wasalways prepared and I was always
getting the job done.
Um, so when you have people thatI'm not asking anyone to match
my intensity because I was kindof a lunatic in that regard, but
just meet me halfway and I willcarry you the rest of the way.

(15:18):
And those that made it verydifficult to even get to that
point, that was the biggesteye-opener for sure.

SPEAKER_07 (15:26):
Now you say now you're no longer in the industry
right now.
So, what was the reason why youwhy you left?
Because you asked me that in thebeginning.
Yeah, Vic.

SPEAKER_00 (15:35):
So the journey of Brazzers went from three
different ownerships over time.
They were first known asManSeth, then they were Manwin,
and then they were MindGeek.
And I'll tell you, eachownership had something a little
bit different.
The Mansef guys they took careof me, they treated me like
they're I was their workhorse,they respected me, all of that.
Um, when they decided to sellbecause they were getting

(15:58):
squeezed by the mafia inMontreal, uh, that was going on.
They they sold it to a dudenamed Fabian Thillman, Talman,
whatever his name is, who was asoftware programmer.
But he bought them uh with moneythat he made from his invention,
which was Nats, it was a uhclick tracking software, and he
wound up buying them out.

(16:19):
And then became the greatexpansion where they where he
was taking Wall Street loans,nine-figure loans, and buying up
everything.
Now you gotta remember porn'sporn hub is already going at
this point in time.
Right.
Mansef created that, but now heis buying every website, every
tube site that is making money,effectively becoming the porn

(16:42):
monopoly slash the evil empire.
Because I don't know if youremember, I mean, what were your
thoughts about them back in theday uh around that time frame?

SPEAKER_07 (16:52):
You know, it it it really did.
It seemed like they were justbuying up any and everything
that it was.
It was more like a monopolizedtype of situation.
Because back in the day, I thinkwe had reality kings, we had um
browsers, you know, you we hadall of those different things
before we knew it, everythingwas up under, you know, that
umbrella of things.

(17:14):
So you were just really workingunder one company.
Um, and if I'm not correct, Ibelieve Matt will even came over
to uh Playboy Radio for a time.

SPEAKER_00 (17:24):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (17:25):
And um kind of took over there, and that's when I
was over there at Playboy Radio.
So it was kind of like, wow, whoare these people?
Where are they coming from, andhow are they doing this?
And now that you you talk about,you know, mafia money and stuff
like that, I kid you not.
I'm like, my eyes are shocked,like, really?

SPEAKER_00 (17:42):
Well, I don't I don't want to say it was mafia
money, but they were definitelypressuring the original owners,
like those skinny little fratboys.
Right.
Uh, well, you go in with acouple of big goons, uh, they're
gonna be like, yeah, maybe wewant to get out of the porn
industry.
And so that's why they sold, andthen they were with Fabian.
Um, and Fabian expanded it andbecame this big empire.

(18:06):
Where I mean, a lot of peoplewere not happy because they were
seeing their copywrittenmaterial ending up on Pornhub,
and it was putting them out ofbusiness.
So a lot of people hated themaround that time, and that
stayed for a moment.
Well, then Fabian he getsarrested for tax evasion, okay?
And from there, you had a couplepeople from inside the company
buying his shares, and you havethe guy from Red Tube buying his

(18:29):
shares, and then they rebrandagain to MindGeek, okay.
And then that was when slowlyover a six-year time period
where all of the joy of the jobslowly started to evaporate.
You know, even though during theManwin days they had money and
they were keeping us busy and wewere doing live shows after the

(18:52):
arrests and everything, then itwas like constraining
everything, chiseling everyonedown.
And I'm not going to tell youthe money wasn't good because
there was a bullshit to dollarratio that I adhered to that
would get me to work every dayand put up with all of the
nonsense that comes along withporn production.
Um, but slowly it kind of justgot worse and worse and worse,

(19:15):
where even though the money wasstill good, uh the concepts we
were shooting because we werejust doing ad stuff for porn
hubs, so people would click onthe ads.
That was really our mandate.
And sometimes I was shootingstuff that I was like, like,
what in the fuck are we doingtoday?
Like the requests were gettingso bizarre.

(19:35):
So you have that, and then youstart getting into the Me Too
era, and you get people gettingouted as abusers.
Now, there wasn't anything likethat happening to me, but I was
starting to feel like this theslope was becoming a little
slippery in a lot of ways,because even though you're
recording something consensuallyon camera, you are dealing with

(19:57):
porn.
And if someone levies anaccusation, you then are gonna
have to be forced to defend it,whether it's true or not, and
you have to go through thatentire process.
Yeah, so I was just kind ofworried, and I kept always kept
myself while I was in thebusiness in a low profile.
Um, but then what I startedfinding, and this led up to
right to COVID, was there wereperformers born, say like from

(20:22):
1996, 1997 onward, grew up oniPhones, grew up on iPads, uh,
social media, and the cues thatwe used, especially you use from
our generation, like no stop,cut, any of those words that you
knew, okay, we need to stop, weneed to regroup.
Right, they weren't saying thesethings.

(20:43):
Instead, they were just goingthrough the rest of the scene,
and you're assuming everything'sgood, especially when you do the
exit interview and they sayeverything was cool and all of
that, but then you get, youknow, you hear something a day
later, or sometimes two weekslater in the form of a tweet, or
sometimes uh two years later,which was going on in the early

(21:04):
days of the pandemic.
So you have all these thingshappening, and there was a
narrative of performers saying,Well, I didn't call cut because
I just wanted to power throughand get it over with.
And when you're looking ateverything, especially like I'm
running camera, I'm looking at asmall viewfinder, I'm looking at
focus and exposure and all ofthese things.

(21:25):
And I'm waiting to hear thosewords, like cut, no stop, and
they're not happening.
And for a while there, thecompany was kind of seeing
things for what they were, but Ithink everyone lost their minds
during summer of 2020.
And people were posting thingsabout app about things
happening.
Um, someone talked about aincident that happened when they

(21:47):
were shooting with Marcus DuPrion my set, and I gave a recap of
it all.
And I said, Look, you're youhave to treat adults in the
atoll industry as adults, andyou have to Expect them to be
able to speak up.
When they started validating thereasons why the performers were

(22:08):
not speaking up, instead ofreally saying, hey, maybe people
need to be educated a little bitmore, and maybe we shouldn't
shoot certain people that maynot have the ability to call cut
or do the responsible thing whena line has been crossed.
So my feeling was, you know,this is getting really hairy.
And you know, the businesschanged during that summer.

(22:31):
You know, the OnlyFans tookover, and studio porn, which I
was in, was not really going tobe as juicy to really stay in
it.
You know, that that that's onething that happened.
And then, you know, if you'vebeen following the news, the
House of MindGeeks started toburn.
And it really came to a headwhen the New York Times released

(22:54):
that article in 2020 about thetrafficking victims of Pornhub.
So all of this was happeningduring that summer.
So I mean, you factor all thattogether.
That was a very long answer forme to tell you how I exited and
why.

SPEAKER_07 (23:10):
No, but but thank you for sharing.
I mean, because it's eye-openinguh to a lot.
And no, I didn't, you know howyou read something or you you
see a headline, but you reallydon't go in.
So I saw that, but I reallydidn't go into detail because
really, honestly, around thattime it was so many things that
was happening.
It was um Derek from LA umdirect that was going on.

(23:30):
It was just so many things thatwas happening around in that
nice little span that it wasjust all of negativity and bad
things.
The thing is, when people ask meabout my experience in the
industry, I honestly don't havea bad experience.
Every set that I was on was veryprofessional, and I didn't see
any any drugs.
If anything, I saw weed smoking,but you know, that's what you

(23:51):
just see, you know, everywhere.
I remember um at a time whenfirst of my remember we used to
have to hold our IDs up, butthat wasn't always.
That wasn't always.
But then it turned to where weliterally had to answer
questions, like, you know, areyou here, you know, on your own,
you know, cotton TR do you knowwhat you're doing?

(24:11):
And those, and that's somethingthat I did respect out of
browsers, that they were doingthat, and then everybody else
was following suit with that,um, especially the internet
companies were doing that tomake sure that we know that we
are on this set to do A, B, C,and D, and this is who you're on
the set with.
Um, there was a lot of thingsthat I seen um, because like I

(24:32):
said, I was out in 2012.
That was the last time that Ishot my scene in 2012.
But watching everything unfoldon social media and stuff like
that, even some of the peoplethat I've worked with, and I've
had those questions, did they dothat to you?
And I said, No.
You know, I I was blessed not tohave that story going in, but I
cannot um take away anybodyelse's experience from that.

(24:56):
And you're right, we did havethese words that we would say,
even a lot of the um co-starsthat I talk to, and it's like,
what do you like?
You know, you know, let me know.
You know, we've had thoseconversations on those sets even
before we get into, you know,having this scene in front of
this camera.
Um, so you being able to look atit from a camera and not see it,

(25:20):
I can see where that can belike, wow, hold on.
This this is a very slipperyslope.
And I I only can do what my eyessee and what my ears hear or
don't hear.
Um for you, have were you eversubpoenaed to come to court on
any of this, or is it just youlike I'm I'm out because it's
just not aligned with meanymore?

SPEAKER_00 (25:41):
I saw where it potentially could go.

And no, here's the thing (25:44):
like, I mean, you seem like a
no-nonsense individual, and ifthe line was crossed, you would
speak up about it.
And I applaud that.
And that's essentially what Iexpected from a lot of people,
and it was working um withpeople from my generation and
the generation directly afterthose protocols you just
mentioned about asking thequestions.
I was doing that in the Floridadays because I thought it was

(26:06):
just a good idea just to have iton camera.
And so when you mention it, thatwas something I did, something
the browsers people saw, andthen something they implemented
with everyone.
So they can thank me forstarting that, I guess.
But there wasn't really anysubpoenas or anything like that.
I didn't want it to get thatfar.
And you know, look, when you'redealing with something as

(26:28):
complicated as production, okay,and now you're dealing with
throwing sex, uh, maybe with twopeople who have never worked
together before, there's a loton your mind.
You I called myself aprofessional plate spinner, like
always putting out flyers,always doing that stuff,
especially when you're doinglike the orgies live on the
internet and you've got, youknow, 10 performers and you

(26:50):
know, a start time, a hard starttime.
I mean, this was the chaos thatI managed.
When I saw it becoming a pointwhere the rules were no longer
making sense, the ones that wereworking for a very, very long
time that were further beingvalidated by the company, that's
when I'm like, all right, well,maybe I'm not the guy anymore,
maybe someone from thatgeneration or you guys figure it

(27:14):
out.
Like it just didn't it didn'tmake sense because I just I
sensed the danger and I Ibasically felt that any perfor
producer out there isessentially holding a ticking
time bomb where if they're gonnashoot and you are shooting the
wrong person, the unvettedperson, the ones that can't
talk.
Well, all they have to do istweet something, and it doesn't

(27:36):
matter if it's true or not, youstill have to go through the
process of exonerating yourname, and still you might have
that stink on you becausesomeone read a tweet and they
didn't follow the rest of thestory, you know?

SPEAKER_07 (27:48):
Yeah, yeah.
So let's talk about the youtalked about a little bit about
the evolution in the industrywith OnlyFans and all that.
Well, you know, you come fromthe internet, changed
everything, and you when youduring your time with sites like
Brazzers and Ponha, what was theshift like from there to

(28:09):
OnlyFans?

SPEAKER_00 (28:10):
So I started seeing people recording themselves and
and doing the talent platformswhen they were shooting on on my
production day, and the headoffice was kind of pissed off
about it, and like we're tryingto tell people don't do that on
our sets, blah, blah, blah.
But it didn't really starttaking off until the pandemic
when everyone was homemasturbating, uh, you know, porn

(28:32):
hub traffic went through theroof.
But something interestinghappened was the bigger talent,
the ones who went through theporn trenches and built a name
for themselves and built a fanbase, they started seeing crazy
money.
And they're like, why on earthwould I go back to shooting for
the studios?
And then I'm thinking, well, ohshit, if I stay with them, then

(28:55):
I'm gonna be shooting, like, notthe top-tier professional
performers, I'm gonna beshooting those mid-level, not to
say it that way, but they're notas versed, they're not as
professional, you're not gonnahave a smooth day.
Like you're really like everyday would be like a battle, I
felt was gonna was was coming.
And um, yeah, it just really itall of the the the names, the

(29:19):
the ones that you looked forwardto shooting, probably were not
gonna be sitting across yourdesk anymore, uh, unless, of
course, browsers put them undercontract, which they have done
with with a handful ofperformers.
And I question why it makessense for the performers um from
a money standpoint when you knowthey have their own brands and

(29:39):
all of that.
I I question it.
Maybe you can answer, but I kindof felt it was more vanity and
prestige rather than a soundbusiness decision.

SPEAKER_07 (29:49):
Yeah, I think you know, I think it's more of
building onto their brand,building more onto their brand.
I remember um Brass is actuallyreached out to me probably about
five or six years ago.
Um, and I said, Oh no, I'm out.
I said, Oh no, I'm out.
I said, I've been out for awhile, I'm out.
And you know, um the the theprices are tempting when they

(30:11):
bring the rate, but it's likeno, I'm I'm out.
I'm I'm building something, youknow, new right here.
But a lot of them that's that'son um with contracts, you being
a contract performer, it issomething very prestigious to
have behind your name whenbuilding your brand.
So that is a part of the brand.
So I hear you when you say of avanity too, but it's also a good

(30:34):
business move, especially if youknow how to use your name in
branding of it.
Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 (30:41):
Yeah, yeah, no, it makes total sense.
And I mean, I think the otherthing too is so I think you
would agree that the crew arethe unsung heroes of the porn
industry.
Um, talent is the product,female talent now, and I will
tell you this, we we paid ourour male talent very well as
well, because if you don't havesolid male talent, you don't

(31:01):
have a scene that day.
I mean, they are your anchor.
But I was kind of seeing thefact that to keep a performer to
not just solely shoot for theirplatforms and maybe make the
money over at Browsers andMindGeek, and they're called ALO
now.
I think the reason is becauselike they're making all the

(31:23):
money.
So the crews are the ones thatare taking the hit on the money
standpoint.
And to be honest with you, Istayed in it because I just knew
like, dude, it sucks sometimes,but just keep working, keep
banking, reinvest, invest inother things because when this
is all over, you know, you youyou should have a nest egg.

(31:43):
And fortunately, I do, and Imade a lot of moves on my own
that the uh company didn't knowabout, namely buying the second
studio that we operated out ofand leasing it to them, which
they never asked questions aboutall of that.
No, they didn't.
And when they told me to todownsize, like you saw that

(32:05):
first studio, it was huge, itwas 16,000 square feet,
ridiculous, right?
But I was like, you know, man,if I had just bought this thing,
uh, I would have been sittingpretty.
So I did that for the secondtime.
When they told me they needed tobe downsized, we downsized, but
I bought that motherfucker and Ikept it afloat for six and a

(32:25):
half years.
And once it was all over and Iwas like, okay, we are
officially done.
I'm not I'm not gonna be fuckingwith OnlyFans or performers in
any way.
I got myself a tenant for thatbuilding, and then I sold the
tenant and the building to aninvestor, and I made double my
money in six and a half years,and so with that and the money I
saved and invested in pornequals happy Vic Lagina,

(32:48):
essentially.

unknown (32:50):
Wow.

SPEAKER_00 (32:51):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (32:53):
Oh, have to use a little smart little cookie, as
they would say.
That that was a smart move.
It really was.

SPEAKER_00 (32:57):
That was well, it it wasn't without risk, you know,
because if any of it imploded atany given time during the entire
career, especially with meleasing out that big 16,000
square foot studio, uh, thingscould have gone sideways.
The plane could have crashedinto the mountain at any given
time.
But my whole thing was I'm justgoing to keep working, keep my

(33:19):
head down, despite how I feel,and just keep making the money.
Oh, do we freeze?

SPEAKER_07 (33:27):
Yes, we did.
Well, we are back.

SPEAKER_00 (33:30):
Okay.
Did you catch that last part, orI gotta say that again?

SPEAKER_05 (33:34):
Gotta say that again.
Somebody didn't want us to hearthat.
That's what it was.

SPEAKER_00 (33:38):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's the case.
No, no, I think I think thetruth is that because I faced
potential financial implosionbecause of taking these risks,
because of feeling like a gut, agut feeling.
Um, yeah, it could haveimploded, but I kept it together
and I kept working.
And then fortunately, when COVIDhit, I was in a sound financial

(34:00):
position where, okay, like wewe'll be all right.
We'll be all right if we walkaway now.
And then the uh the thing is,like the mass exodus from LA to
Vegas uh really helped me out.
And I closed this this this dealfor the studio literally before
inflation happens.

(34:20):
Like it was like the timing wasjust so perfect that I'm just
like, hey man, all the bloodthat I donate and all the dogs
that I've saved over the years,like the karma came back and it
was like, hey dude, you're good.
You were a good dude, so nowyou're gonna have some some
nice, easy time right now.
And so it worked out for me.

SPEAKER_07 (34:38):
All right, so now let's go, let's go to post porn,
because this is what we talkabout post porn now.
This is where the book Filthyhas come in, too.
Yeah, what made you write thatbook?
What'd you say?

SPEAKER_00 (34:49):
I what was well it started in 2015 as a journal,
yeah.
Because at that point, I'm inthe business 13 years, and at
that point, I would say it was adark time within the industry.
You know, the the journey waswas a constant, you know, don't
fall into darkness, stay in thelight.
Very tenuous.

(35:09):
It was it was a fine line.
And around that time, I wouldsay I would be the darkest.
You know, you're doing the wrongdrugs.
In my case, it was cocaine,which I never thought that I
would have a cocaine addictionor or abuse it as I did.
But you know, we were we werebusy a lot of the times, and so
one surefire way to get energyis to just do a caterpillar uh

(35:33):
caterpillar rail, and you'reready to like, you know, shoot
the three live shows you mighthave the following day.
So, you know, it was around thattime I was just thinking I need
to get it out of my head into atangible form.
And writing was very catharticbecause I started I got it from
birth until that moment of of mylife.
And you sit back and you'relike, whoa, dude, you're you're

(35:56):
going pretty hard in the paint,you're burning the candle at
both ends.
Perhaps it's time to make betterlife decisions.
So that helped in a lot of ways,like journaling all of that.
Um, and every time we would havea shutdown, you know, someone
pops for HIV and you're inmoratorium, I would go back, I
would update the whole bookagain or the journal, and then

(36:18):
it kept going to that processand it happened again in 2020.
But I wasn't sure what I wasgonna do with it.
And the and the story was thestory of Vic Lagina hadn't ended
yet, but it was starting toduring the pandemic.
And once I sold that buildingand I was sitting pretty, it was
like, all right, now what?

(36:39):
You know, so that's where theidea of publishing the book and
writing something unique andspecial that is all encompassing
about the porn industry, notspecifically my journey.
That's part of it, because my mylife was a bit of a shit show,
especially when you talk aboutrelationships in porn, because I

(37:00):
had my doozies in there, and sothey shaped me and my
relationships after that.
But I thought that people wouldappreciate knowing what it'd be
like to walk in my shoes for awhile, and also a dude that had
the front row seat to thecompany that became Brazzers
that changed porn forever, so itwas a bit of a unique
experience, and then the truthis is like me and Brazzers, we

(37:21):
didn't end on good terms, andthey didn't have me sign an NDA
for some fucking reason, yeah.
And they were offered to theythey could have gotten me so
cheap, but if if you really wantto like kind of sum up, Brazzers
at that point were mind geek atthat time, arrogant and
short-sighted and greedy.

(37:43):
So, you know, they could haveshut me up, but they didn't.
So now I'm sitting here, I'm I'mI'm doing well, I've got all of
this.
Uh I'm processing it, and sofinishing the book and really
just kind of processing whatit's like when you're no longer
a porn director for Brazzers andyou're reassimilating into
civilian life again.

(38:04):
And you know, it's um that wasinteresting and that was
cathartic.
And then then it was like, allright, we're gonna release this
thing and we're gonna make thisuh as bad of a motherfucker as
we possibly can.
And we are not going to uh holdanything back, we are gonna be
brutally honest.
So, you know, a big part of thisbudget was my lawyers, you know.

(38:27):
Yeah, they did a fullcomprehensive to have me write
it a certain way where uh ifsomeone were to sue me, it the
wind would fall out of theirsails pretty quickly.
That's pretty much how I did it.
So um I applied every sense ofbusiness acumen that I had, uh,
as well as a big creative forceto write a book that is very

(38:49):
tight in the narrative and uhintriguing for those who have
read it.
It's it's gotten really goodreviews.
I've gotten really goodfeedback, and there's a lot of
humanity and a lot of brutalhonesty in the book, uh,
especially when it comes tomyself.
Yeah.
So it resonates with a lot ofpeople.

SPEAKER_07 (39:07):
You know, that's beautiful.
It was something that you saidabout being in the industry and
how it's being able to shape youor who you are today, just
knowing, you know, a lot ofmisconception of when, you know,
when they think of people goinginto the porn industry that we
um are shit shows or, you know,just a little bit of nothing.

(39:27):
You know, with my journey is Ialways say that me going into
the industry was probably one ofthe best things that can happen
for me personally, because ithas shaped uh part of who I am
and my character and allow me tohave a platform like this and my
other ones to be able to speakabout talking about self-love,
talking about self-discovery,talk about all of those things

(39:49):
because you are forced to makethose choices and those
decisions in that time.
You know, I speak a lot about onmy way to set and praying in my
car.
Those were my moments ofmindfulness, those are my
moments to be clear.
So when I do get onto thosesets, that I am clear-minded for
whatever thing is happeningaround me.
And so it kept me connected morespiritually than ever, being on

(40:13):
those sets.
But also, I was able to meetsome amazing people during, you
know, that time.
I think that's one of themisconceptions of that everybody
is creeps there, a pervertedperversion or nothing.
It's a lot of people, yeah, theyare.
You know, we got some pervertedpeople, but you know, people on
there, they're very creative.
A lot of people use that as afuel for money to be able to get

(40:36):
out of situations, but then alsopeople wanted to be there and
enjoy the company that theyhave.
And so I love the way that yousaid that, even through your
journey, even through your yourum your drug addict and
everything like that, you learnsomething from that.
You learn something from that.
And if if if anybody that'swatching this right now could
understand is that the trialsand the tribulations that we go

(40:59):
through in life, these are giftsthat we have and we take them as
learning experience forteachable moments.
So, right now, what you'redoing, this is a teachable
moment, even within your book,even with just sitting with me
on this live show right now andjust doing it.
And I commend you for doing it.
I really do because everybodyare not willing to sit in their

(41:20):
truth and share that.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (41:22):
Yeah, no, that was that was the whole thing.
And um uh I did learn about it,and I don't dwell on the past
because I learned all of thoselessons that I need to.
And the other thing is I don'treally worry about the future
either because very little I cancontrol about it.
So uh every day for me now isjust waking up and enjoying the
day and being present.
So uh, and and I got to thatpoint eventually.

(41:45):
Um, I I think the truth is thatwas very revealing is when I
talk about the people who diedthat I knew in the business and
how they died and researchingit, and it it was uh revealing
to me that it would not only tohave energy to work, especially
with how busy we were, but therewas a lot of darkness around me
as well.

(42:05):
And a lot of the performers thatI were working with were in very
dark places.
And the only way really to notlet that really sink in is to
numb yourself.
And I realized that when I waswriting their obituaries or
reading their obituaries andthen and then putting a passage
about uh their experience and myexperience with them.

(42:27):
So, you know, it it waseye-opening in that way, and I
think when people read the book,they're seeing a lot of the
humanity that goes in and andreally just painting it in
really detailed strokes uh toreally understand that there's a
lot going on in the pornindustry, um, making it, but
also those in it and trying toagain stay in the light and not

(42:52):
fall into darkness.
And I easily could have, youknow, I I say COVID happens, it
was a blessing, even thoughwatching that money go away when
I was waking up happy every day,and and more importantly, I
wasn't doing cocaine anymore.
So therefore, I wasn't gonna geta bad batch that had fentanyl in
it and killed me, you know.

(43:12):
So, in some ways, I I survivedit, yeah.
In a lot of ways, you know.

SPEAKER_07 (43:17):
Yeah.
So now, um, I know you got a lotof wild stories to share being
on those sets and stuff likethat.
So, can you share a couple ofthe most memorable moments that
you experienced during your timein the industry?

SPEAKER_00 (43:30):
So, one thing I really talk about, like I I
really love leaning into thebizarre and awkward and
uncomfortable.
I think that makes for moreinteresting reading.
Because I think if you writeabout porn in a way, uh in a
central way, well, that'serotica.
I wanted to kind of really gofull shit show and all of that.
And, you know, um, maybe I guessthat's the right term, but I

(43:53):
talk about when anal scenes gosideways, especially in a live
event.
You know, I talk about it in thebook.
Uh, do you remember Jordan Ash?
Does that name ring a bell?

SPEAKER_07 (44:04):
White girl.

SPEAKER_00 (44:05):
White, white guy.
Big tall.
He was he was a male performer.
So he he's no longer with us.
He died of a brain tumor in2020.
But he was like a hardworkingsoldier of mine when it came to
performers and scenes.
But we were doing a live show,and I'm not going to say her
name, but when you're doing anallive, preparation is all

(44:30):
important.
It really is.
And look, we had measures goingin, and I would say performers
trusted us that, you know, ifyou're shooting, or in my case,
it was uh Huggy who was shootingthose, like as the cameraman,
but there was a process, likeyou don't show the penetr the
initial penetration and removalbecause you want to make sure

(44:52):
it's clean and you don't want toembarrass the performer.

SPEAKER_08 (44:55):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (44:56):
Well, one of the performers, um, you know, she
she is talking about how she wasa vegan and you know didn't have
to worry about prep and um wasalso drinking a very large
coffee.
And I'm thinking these are allhuge no-nos before you're gonna
do live anal orgy.
Well, long and short of it, um,there was basically liquid poo

(45:20):
all down Jordan Ash's torso uhduring that live show that the
audience had no idea happened.
And he was good, he wasunflappable, he gets up, he goes
to the wiping station, wipes itall off, gets himself right back
into battle, and that was it.
So uh lesson learned, ladies andgentlemen, is if you're gonna do

(45:41):
a live anal shoot, prepareaccordingly.
Don't drink coffee, andcertainly don't eat like beans
and uh plantains and whateverelse you're you're putting in
there because it'll make a biggiant mess.
I mean, that's just one of thestories.
I tell you, this book is chockfull of the shit I just spouted.

(46:03):
So I really wanted to takepeople along for the ride.
And look, I'm really good atdancing on the line and like not
being overly gross, but you'regonna get a little dirty, you're
gonna get a little filthy byreading it.
And I think that's all part ofthe fun because it's um it's not
always blowjobs and rainbows, aswe would say.

SPEAKER_07 (46:24):
No, it is not, and as you said, I'm just picturing
this whole scene just going overmy head, yeah, just happening
with it.
All right, so let's talk aboutduality.
Let's talk about duality, let'stalk about being a businessman
in this billion-dollar industrywhile navigating your personal
life.
How did you balance the two?

SPEAKER_00 (46:44):
Uh, a lot of drugs and alcohol.
No, I'm I'm I'm serious.
Um, how did I do it?
Well, you know, I I think theimportant thing was when I got
into the business and I decidedto make a career out of it.
It was very important to me tonot lose my soul.
So I looked myself in the mirrorand I'm like, dude, do not lose
your soul.
And it was it was a battle dailybecause look, you can get

(47:05):
tempted by a lot of things.
And I was single for a lot ofthe time in the industry, which
could lead to really ridiculousencounters, and they definitely
happened.
Um, but then there was also likethe personal relationships.
Now I'm I'm good now.
I've got a I've got a wonderfulwoman.
Uh, I'm so crazy in love withher.
We we are we are happy.

(47:27):
Uh, which if you look at myresume, you're like, okay,
someone learned their lessonalong the way.
Because from my choices pre-pornto some of the porn
relationships, they weren't themost functional relationships.
And a lot of it was me.
You know, I think when I wastrying to date when I first got

(47:47):
into Vegas, uh, probably becauseit was in Vegas, you know, and
you don't really have a lot ofreally good options out here.
Um, but I found that people orwomen that were interested, um,
it was more of a novelty, youknow, where oh, I want to talk
to this dude because he's inporn, but reality check, I can't

(48:07):
handle it.
So what I would do is kind ofget in relationships with some
broken porn chicks uh because Ifelt that it was um I had to
compromise, you know, if I wasgonna be in porn.
Yeah, I don't think that wayanymore.
Right.
But these were the uhrelationships, like I had some
bad ones that you just need onereally, really bad one, and I I

(48:31):
did have it, which I talk aboutin my book, that get you to set
the tone for your futurerelationships.
And the one after that, I'm notgonna tell you that was
harmonious and and not notdysfunctional because it was,
uh, but that was kind of when Iwas a little bit of a scoundrel
in the business, cheating on herand doing whatever I wanted and
doing a lot of cocaine.

(48:53):
I mean, really, it's just likeif you want to just like kind of
think about like the mostexcessive you could be in porn,
um, that was during that phase.
And then once that relationshiphappened, which then started my
process of writing the book,that's when I'm like, okay, no
more relationships, you know,unless they're right.

(49:14):
And let's just kind of be smartand spend our personal time with
people.
It was, it was, it was stillwomen in the industry, but there
were barriers up where it wasn'tgonna be letting myself get too
close and really vetting who Iwas spending my time with
because my house and my space islike my personal bubble of

(49:38):
bliss, and whatever energies youbring in are going to affect it.
So that was me for a while.
Um, and I would say, likestaying in the light, you know,
uh, whenever work was becomingtoo much, because you know, when
you're talking about people youmet in the industry, I didn't
really resonate uh on a veryclose level with many people in

(49:59):
the industry.
We just not a lot in common, youknow.
I always felt myself like atporn functions, like awkward,
like wanting to jump out of myskin.
Like I didn't feel at ease.
Where I did feel at ease was atmusic festivals, uh doing a lot
of LSD and hanging out with withlike happy, sparkly, bright
people.
And so it seemed to be um uh mymy the way to stay in the light.

SPEAKER_06 (50:25):
Yeah.
You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (50:28):
So um, so that was really how to how to stay
focused.
And for me, you know, businesswas always uh instinctual, you
know, always be prepared, youknow, always be on top of all
the details.
I mean, I was running thisthing, you know, sometimes 18
hours a day, even if I wasn't onset that long.
So it was really just a matterof of just trying, it was it was

(50:49):
a tight wire situation, youknow.
You've got these crazyencounters with porn stars,
you're trying to run a business,you're trying not to die uh uh
on drugs.
So I mean, you know, that waslike kind of the the the story,
and I really just wanted tocapture that essence in the
book.
And uh I think in a lot of wayswriting it also helped save me.

SPEAKER_07 (51:12):
Right.
That's you know, I I love thatyou're sharing that now.
You have um Delpa Michael, yougot a question?

SPEAKER_05 (51:17):
Yeah, you know, uh just breezing through the book,
have a read up, but I saw yougot a school of porn section in
the book.
Yeah, uh that was one of thewildest, the most eye-opening
lessons you've included in thebook.

SPEAKER_00 (51:29):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, those I think are myfavorite.
Uh yeah, so there's nine lessonsof Vic Lagina's school of porn,
and some of them go intodifferent areas.
You know, lesson two is what todo when she's on her period.
Uh, I think lesson four might besquirt or pee, or prepping for
anal, or my most important one,I think it's lesson six,

(51:50):
hygiene.
Okay, hygiene is huge, and it II marveled in the fact that a
lot of performers, femaleperformers, had no concept of
it.
Right, you know, and it's likelike that is your money maker.
Shouldn't it be like in tip top?
Shouldn't it?
So I talk about it, especiallywhen you have encounters in your

(52:13):
personal life and telling peoplelike there are remedies for this
sort of thing.
Uh, if you start getting thatfunk, uh boric acid, but very
important.
Do not eat the boric acid as itwill kill you.
You know, it's a suppository,but that will clear it up.
Um, but yeah, I'm glad that youyou like those lessons because
um, yeah, that's the those aremy favorite, to be honest with

(52:36):
you.
Out of the whole book, that waslike the my favorite writing
them.

SPEAKER_07 (52:40):
All right.
So let's do this.
I want to um I want to open itup for um for questions.
Um, if you don't mind, do youmind?

SPEAKER_00 (52:47):
Go for it.
I I I love answering questions.

SPEAKER_07 (52:50):
All right, um uh my BTG crew.
I didn't even say hi to y'all.
Hey, I see y'all in the commentscommenting and everything like
that.
So, hey, hey, to all of youguys.
Um, if you got any questions,Dr.
Mike Mike is gonna put it upthere.
Um, and and come on in and joinin um with it.
Um and feel free to ask anythingabout his career.
He said he is an open book umwith it all.

(53:14):
With it all.
So let me ask you this.
Um, who was the most memorable?
Yeah, I'm gonna ask you this.
Who was your favorite to workwith?

SPEAKER_00 (53:26):
Uh it's a common question and it's a little bit
of a cop-out answer, but I willgive you names after that.
My favorite performer was onethat made their flight in the
morning and didn't miss it andarrived on time with a big happy
smile on their face, prepared,ready to work, happy to be
there, and always just ready togo.

(53:49):
Because for me, all I wanted todo every day was get home to my
dogs, you know, and and that wasmy mission every day to like,
let's get this going, let's allget paid, let's have a good
time, but I gotta get back to mydogs, so let's go.
And when someone was was thereuh to do that, I I loved it.
You know, I um the funny thingis I don't really remember a lot

(54:10):
of those days because those arethe days that went well, you
know.
And when I was going through myarchives and trying to remember
stories, I was going through somany envelopes, like literally,
I shot or produced 3,792 scenesover my career, and I have all
of the uh paperwork for it.
And I was I was amazed at like alot of them.

(54:33):
I was like, I do not rememberany of these days at all.
But the reason was is becausethey went according to plan.
Yeah, when they go sideways, ofcourse you're gonna remember
that.
So so names.
Uh Phoenix Marie, I will say shewas one of them.
Uh, I knew when she would showup that we were just gonna have
a rocking day and it wouldn't bea problem.
Uh, I really don't want to, youknow, give shout outs to to

(54:56):
Brazz or contract performersbecause uh whatever, but Luna
Starr, do you remember her?
Yeah, she was another one wherecome on set and it's like you
know you're gonna have a greatday.
So, you know, you would have youwould have some, you're just
you're looking at your list,you're like, ah shit, ah shit.
Ah, okay, her.
Then we're gonna have a good daythat day, and you knew what to

(55:17):
expect.
Um, so so yeah, those are acouple names I would tell you
that I I really enjoyed.
There's a lot more, you know.
Julia Ann was always great.
I love the fact of how many dogsthat she has saved over her
lifetime.
Like, like if you believe inheaven, her spot is secure
because of all the dogs that shehas saved.

(55:39):
Um, Nikki Hunter, she wasanother one, another great one
that was just like like like youjust you get intoxicated by her
her her essence, essentially,you know, because she's so light
and bright and all that.
But then you have like, youknow, sometimes your terrors,
like your shit shows.
And if there was one shit showthat I would say I had fun
shooting, would be AngelinaValentine.

(56:00):
Do you remember her?

SPEAKER_08 (56:01):
Yeah, I do.

SPEAKER_00 (56:03):
I mean, she it got bad for her towards the end.
Like, I was like, we we can'tshoot her anymore because I
think mentally she's she'sstarting to go insane.
Like, I'm not a doctor, but I'mpretty sure she's she's losing
her mind here.
So, but but when she was there,um you knew it was gonna be like
a a show, especially if itdidn't involve anal.
Because she was getting bookedfor anal, but she hated it, you

(56:25):
know.
So those those scenes were noteasy to shoot.
But a boy girl with her, yeah,you were uh you were you were
definitely gonna have a good daythat day.

SPEAKER_07 (56:36):
You you said some of my favorites, Phoenix and um and
Hunter.
Oh yeah, I love those.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I love those too.
We we've done a lot of scenestogether, but also just been in
those are some of the peoplethat I talk about when I talk
about good people.
Yeah, yeah.
Good people, yeah.
Um, I I had the um privilege, Isaw Huggy.

(56:57):
I just went back to AVN for thefirst time.
I haven't been there in a while,and I actually saw um Huggy um
this year, and it was good to,you know, he had lost a lot of
weight, so I I was just staringat him because I of his face,
but I didn't, you know, and Isaid, Oh, okay.
So it was good to kind of goback and just to see everybody
because just like you, when whenyou leave the industry, you you

(57:19):
kind of try to find in who youare outside of that um that
perimeter and who you are andthat energy.
So I'm very selective on theenergy that I have around me,
um, as well as you to make surethat I am I am staying in that
light.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (57:37):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, good.
Yeah, no, um, I talk aboutHuggie in the book quite a bit.
Uh, you know, the thing is withhim, uh, and maybe he's in a
better place now, but but thatdude was always gunning for my
job and really being underminingabout it.
Yeah, so so he takes his shotsin the book, and and I mean it
doesn't come without proof.

(57:58):
Like the things that he wouldsay to people that uh I was that
the uh I'll put you like this.
They came up to me, they'relike, dude, watch Huggy, he's
looking to stab you in the back,and they would explain what was
going on, yeah.
And he was really gunning for myjob.
But the thing was is, and thisis what really sucks, and this
is what for those that I talkshit about in the book, it's

(58:18):
because I put like I put moneyin their pocket, I gave them
jobs, even when they werefucking up, or even in Huggy's
case, they wanted me to fire himearly on in his career.
And I literally was like, dude,we need him because there was a
certain point they were sendingdown Canadians that I would
train uh in Vic Lagina School ofPorn.

(58:39):
And the problem was they didn'tgive them visas, the company
didn't give them visas.
So you keep sending Canadiansdown, eventually they're gonna
be like, wait a minute,something's going on here, and
they hold them up with theborder.
Well, with Huggy, he was anAmerican, he was allowed to work
here, and more importantly, herespected the dollar.

(58:59):
And so I needed him to work, butthey didn't really like him and
they didn't really trust him.
But I needed him to work, andI'm like, guys, I will make sure
this dude works.
So when you have a guy that youare putting money in their
pocket, saving their job, givingthem livelihood, and they're
trying to stab you in the backand take your job, that's when
you're like, all right,motherfucker, I see you, but I'm

(59:21):
going to have to play thissituation in a very
Machiavellian kind of way,because you're working and I'm
making money too.
And it was kind of like agodfather kind of thing uh
scenario, like, gotta keep yourfriends close, but your enemies
closer.
And if I cut him loose, whoknows what havoc he could have
wreaked upon me.
So when I say um, hopefully he'sin a better place and he's not

(59:45):
conniving like he is, uh, Iwould say, okay, you know,
that's fine.
But but there are others, youknow.
I call him in my book uhFucktard.
That's his name, Fuctard.
Because here's a dude, big timestoner, and he is uh a PA and he
asserted himself pretty well.
But you know, there's certainpeople that go to gravitate
towards the business for thewrong reasons, you know, to be

(01:00:09):
around porn chicks and try toget laid.
Well, Fucktard was from thisilk.
Now, the thing was, is it wasgetting back to me that he was
taking his dick out uh duringrides from into the airport.
And, you know, it happened onceand then it happened twice.
And I say, you know, wherethere's smoke, there's fire.

SPEAKER_08 (01:00:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:29):
And so uh, you know, I I I also saved his job too.
I kept trying to help thisindividual and keep him working.
And once I let him go, thatmotherfucker called OSHA on me
as retribution.
So yeah, he's known as Fucktartin the book.
And um, yeah, so so I do throwsome people under the bus, but

(01:00:51):
there's good reason for it.

SPEAKER_07 (01:00:53):
Right, right.
And I want to make this clearbecause I know when you you kind
of um kind of intertwine in it.
So when he's talking aboutfucktart, he's not exactly he's
not talking about huggy, right?

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:04):
No, right huggy is huggy, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (01:01:06):
Right, huggy's huggy, and then it's a fuck tar.
That's that's two differentdifferent yeah, yeah, yeah, two
different people.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:12):
Yeah, there's there's a few there are a few
others.
Um you know, you know, look, youyou you hire people in porn,
you're an employer, you expectthings of people.
Sometimes people are gonna leaveon bad terms.
There's no way to avoid it, butdude, like don't call Osha on
me, don't try to make lifedifficult for me, you know.
Uh, don't try to steal my job,you know.
Like this is these are thethings that drove me nuts

(01:01:34):
because you know, it was alreadya hard climate, anyways.
You had people not making moneyin porn because porn had put
them out of business, so it wasvery dog-eat dog.
And I'm looking out for myselffrom outside forces.
You're hoping that the peoplewithin you that you are paying
and keeping employed are noteating your ass too, but they

(01:01:57):
are, you know, so so that wasalso part of the journey.
But you know, you kind of learn,and you know, it's the cost to
be the boss.

SPEAKER_07 (01:02:05):
Yeah, correct.

SPEAKER_05 (01:02:06):
Okay, so we got a question for you.
Uh, it's from Brussels, and hesaid, Vic, is there anything you
haven't had the chance to dothat you would like to check off
your bucky licks inside or uhoutside of industry?

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:19):
Uh yeah, like outside the industry.
So, you know, look, I I did okayas a mainstream producer of
corporate videos, but you know,that's kind of boring.
Um, now I'm a published author,so I check that off.
But wouldn't it be cool if thisgets turned into something like
a movie or a TV show orsomething?
So I think that's really what Ihope for this.

(01:02:42):
This is what I'm putting outinto the universe.
Um, it's written like it couldeasily be a television show that
is real about porn, because youknow, there's some good porn
product movies out there likeBoogie Nights and the others,
but they're very rare.
And every time I see them, I'mlike, that's bullshit, that is
conjured, that is fake, but thisis all real.

(01:03:03):
So I'm I'm very much a part ofit.
So the one thing that I did dobefore I left my studio, sold
it, everything was you know, Ihad these two studios under my
control for a good portion ofthese years, yet all I was doing
was shooting movies that endedwith a facial, and I didn't do
anything creative.
So before I vacated, I shot this70 to 80 minute uh, it was

(01:03:26):
supposed to be a movie of sorts,basically six days of a
pornographer.
And while I was waiting for thisdude to deliver a cut of it,
that's when I really went towork on filthy and finishing up
the book.
But because he took so long, andfinally when he delivered his
cut, I was very underwhelmed.
I turned the footage into atrailer for the book.

(01:03:48):
So if you go to viclagina.com,you could see that trailer.
And for you fans out there,there's porn stars in it and
there's porn star boobies.
So go check it out.
And I think if you look at it,you'd be like, okay, dude, I
kind of see what you're talkingabout, where I could see this as
being a television show.
So that is the answer of what Iwould love to do to work on

(01:04:08):
something like this that is amainstream production.
Um that would be the dream.
That would be the okay, I candie now and I'm good.
Like I think I did everything Iwanted to do.

SPEAKER_07 (01:04:19):
Definitely be something like on Netflix, you
know, like you know, or evenyeah, a cable show like night,
you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:26):
Yeah, there's there's been a couple of
producers kicking the tires, butyou know, you wait for the the
the right one, the person thatgets it, that trans translates
my my uh interesting perspectiveon this into a visual form
because that is what would makethis thing work is like you
gotta kind of you know pepper itwith a little of the weirdness
and a little bit of the bizarreand awkward because I think that

(01:04:49):
makes for more compellingtelevision.

SPEAKER_07 (01:04:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So your name?
Vic Lagina.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:55):
Vic Lagina.

SPEAKER_07 (01:04:56):
Vic Lagina.
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:59):
Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_07 (01:05:01):
Where?
Why?

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:03):
Like oh, oh, so where'd it come from?
Okay.
So um in the beginning, I guessmy first day on set, I was known
back then, and this was verybrief, as Ned Wood.
You know, it was like a play onEd Wood, you know, like like,
you know, he was the worstdirector ever.
So I'm gonna be like the worstporn director ever in like a

(01:05:23):
campy kind of way.
But that joke kind of went overeveryone's head.
And, you know, at that point intime, I thought that the
business was run by the mafia.
So I need like anItalian-sounding name, you know,
like so they don't mess with me,you know, and um, so eventually
it was like Vic.
But then I have a friend, I callhim the Senator, and he has a

(01:05:45):
unique ability to come up withthese funny things that have
really no use or purpose in reallife.
And in this case, he's like, Ithink, you know, if you called
yourself Vic Lagina, uh, thatwould be hilarious.
I was like, dude, you areabsolutely right.
Because I always looked at pornlike you can't take this shit

(01:06:05):
seriously.
So certainly my name would haveto reflect that.

SPEAKER_08 (01:06:09):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:09):
And for me, it was kind of like um uh you know,
just watching it still go overpeople's heads because they say
like Vic Lagina or Vic Lagina,and I'm like, no, or then
someone like two years like,dude, I had no idea that was
your name.
I'm just getting it now.
I'm like, hey man, at least yougot it, you know.

SPEAKER_07 (01:06:30):
Yeah, you know, I I I when I I said remind me
because I knew it was Legina,but I was just like, I I don't I
don't know if that's really it.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:43):
Yeah, also I I love it.
And like the like say and youknow what, you're not the first
person, and you're not gonna bethe last.
They always say, So how do yousay your last name?
And I'm like, uh, do it, do it,Vagina.
You know, it's it's fun.

SPEAKER_07 (01:06:59):
You know, I knew it was kind of a playoff one, but I
just wanted to make sure, like,okay, let's listen.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:04):
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_07 (01:07:04):
I mean, so we talk about the relationships in the
industry and how, and you saidthat you really didn't have any.
So now that you're uh outsideof, I mean you're out of the
industry right now, are youstill connected with anyone from
the industry that were able tobe in the same light as you now?

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:20):
Yeah, yeah.
No, I still talk to Phoenix.
Um, she actually may need me forher case against uh the company
because she is suing them.
I'm not sure if you're aware ofthat.
And I I I guess really to provemy point about where porn was
going in terms of it being aslippery slope, she was in on a
scene out in Barcelona with andDanny D, who was a performer,

(01:07:45):
who's now a performer and aproducer and a director.
Um, there was a new performer.
She had an incident.
Uh, that incident is underdispute.
The company says that Phoenixgave this girl lithium.
Phoenix is saying no, it was themakeup artist who is also the uh

(01:08:05):
girlfriend of Danny D gave herher lithium, and this girl had
an episode, and ambulance neededto be called, like a poor
producer's worst nightmare,basically.
So this is what happened.
And so I look at that event thatday, and I'm thinking, you know,
you could put the two mostprofessional people in the
business in the same roomtogether, and shit can still go

(01:08:27):
sideways.
So um, she was willing to justkind of let it go, but they made
the mortal mistake of saying andusing Phoenix's daughter's death
as a way to say, you need tocope, you need to deal with
this.
They brought it into her.
And listen, I will tell you thatPhoenix uh has every right to be

(01:08:48):
pissed off that they would usethat.
I mean, if you look up, there'san article in the Daily Mail
that details the entire story,if you want to like verify what
I'm talking about.
But I still talk to her.
Um, Veronica Avlov, I'll hearfrom on occasion.
Um, but to be honest with you,uh, and I think this still is a

(01:09:09):
testament of because the companystill has such a stranglehold on
the business, and because me andthem didn't end on good terms, a
lot of them don't really want totalk to me because they don't
want to piss them off.
You know?
So it's okay.
You know, I think in some waysit was a little bit of a bummer,
especially with women that I hada very like intimate moments

(01:09:31):
with that I invited to my space,and you reach out, hey, how are
you doing?
Are you okay?
Like, how's your mental health?
And you get ghosted.
You're like, okay, well, I mean,cool.
You know, at least I know whereI stand.
But but that would kind of sumup um a lot of what was going
on, you know, once I leftBrazzers, and it was like, like,

(01:09:52):
I didn't dwell on it.
It was like, okay, fucked up,moving on to the next thing, and
you know, I see you now.

SPEAKER_07 (01:09:59):
Right, right.
Thank you for sharing that.
So we we do have um someone onon the the line with us right
now.
Hey hey Rockar, how you doing?

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:07):
Hey, what's happening?
It's been a little while.
How you been?

SPEAKER_07 (01:10:14):
Good, good, good.
You got a question?

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:20):
Yeah.
I got a question.
I was um actually thinking aboutthis question about a week ago.
And I was thinking, let's say,you know, there was like a let's
say your era of porn, and it hadlike a reality show.
Which porn star do you thinkwill fight the world most on a
reality show?

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:41):
Um, well, I shot it actually.
I mean, we shot this thingcalled Brazzers House, the very
first Brazzers House.
Uh, I shot that in 2014, andI'll tell you something, like
that that shoot almost broke mefor a lot of reasons.
Um, because I mean it was a veryhigh budget.
We had about$150,000 on theline.
We had 12 performers, they'reunder one roof, and there was a

(01:11:04):
lot of people like at eachother's throats.
But I would tell you the thetime it got most contentious.
Well, there's two moments.
These were during live showsthat we were shooting.
There was one whereaforementioned Phoenix Marie and
Bridget B almost got into afight on Browser's Live 5.
There was beef between them uhabout a dude of what else, you

(01:11:28):
know, and um during the show uhthey were they were talking shit
to each other.
And at one point, I thinkPhoenix or no, Bridget threw
water on Phoenix.
Phoenix then grabbed Bridget bythe weave and yanked her down to
the canvas.
And I mean, made for greattelevision, but you know, you're
like, we're getting a littleJerry Springer here.

(01:11:50):
You know, that's what'shappening.
And then they were like, wow,people are talking about this
all the time.
So then there was another liveshow, and it was Jinx Maze with
Jennifer White.
Now, Jennifer White is doingvery well right now, you know,
but back then she was fightingsome demons, and let's just say

(01:12:11):
she didn't make it to the liveshow because she passed out um
with a butt plug in her ass.
And before that even happened,Jinx and Jennifer were already
chipping away at each other.
And, you know, there was alreadythat bad blood.
Well, post scene, when we'restill rolling cameras, um, Jinx

(01:12:32):
sees Jennifer, who had justwakened up from her stupor, and
said, Ah, what happened there?
And Jennifer was like talkingshit.
And at one point, Jinx took offher heel and had it in her
hands.
And I'm thinking, this bitch isabout to put a heel into
Jennifer White's skull.
And so we had to have aproduction assistant grab, you

(01:12:54):
know, them and separate them.
But I told the head office atthat point, I'm like, look,
okay, you want Jerry Springer,you like that in the live shows,
that's fine.
But for every one of these, Ineed three Steves.
Steve was like his his baldbodyguard, you know, like I need
someone there.
Like, if it gets chaotic, likefor liability purposes.
So yeah, that was uh those werethose those days where I'm like,

(01:13:18):
damn, that was insane.

SPEAKER_07 (01:13:21):
Yeah, that that sounds insane.
And you know, I don't know ifpeople know is you know, like
Phoenix Marie is a probablyabout 5'10, 5'9, 5'10, and
Bridget B is probably like 5'2,5, 5'3.
So even imagining that goinghappening, going on, like, wow,
yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:38):
Yeah, yeah, I I would never want to tussle with
Phoenix Marie, I'll tell youthat.
Like, she she would roundhousemy ass.

SPEAKER_07 (01:13:52):
Right, you got any more questions, baby?

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:54):
Nah, that's about it.
I was just thinking that theother day.
I was like, yo, like they had areality show, but like, which
porn star is the most violent?
Like, who would get you like allthose ratings people be looking
for?

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:05):
Yeah, I mean, Tor Tor Jory Lane was always a loose
canon for sure.
I don't know if you rememberher.
Um, and I remember there was ascene with her and Angelina
Valentine, and I swear to God,like Ramon, Spanish Ramon, you
know, he was he was one of myfavorites.
He was the male talent, so hewas fine.
He didn't lose wood, but Iwasn't sure if these two were

(01:14:26):
gonna fuck or fight.
Like, I remember there was onepoint where Tori like balled her
fist up and she was like feelinglike she was gonna crack her in
the back of the head.
Uh, but that never happens.
So I was um, you know, sometimesyou're rolling cam, and you're
like, shit, I'm gonna keeprolling until I need to call cut
or or they call cut.
Um, so I kept that one going.

(01:14:47):
And fortunately, no incidencesor or donkey punches were were
had that day.

SPEAKER_04 (01:14:53):
That's a nice one.
So it's not like you need to getyou some security, bro.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, Rock, thank you forstopping in.

SPEAKER_07 (01:15:03):
Stopping in.
It was it's been a uh it's beena minute.
Yeah, it's been a nice minute.

SPEAKER_04 (01:15:08):
Yeah, definitely.
It's always a pleasure, youknow, to chat on your show, man.
You doing big things.
Shout outs to everybody, yo.
It's only up to you.

SPEAKER_07 (01:15:16):
I appreciate you.
Have a good one, Rock.

SPEAKER_04 (01:15:18):
You too.

SPEAKER_07 (01:15:20):
All right, my beautiful people.
Again, this is Axe Nami BridgetAgain Podcast.
I'm your host, Nami Banks, andwe are here with Vic Lajina.
Uh, he is the author of the bookFilthy.
Um, I'm I'm excited to read it.
I haven't been able to reallyget in it to get into it, but
now I really want to get intoit.
I want to really want to read itnow.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:39):
Well, well, let me ask you something.
Do you prefer books or do youprefer audiobooks?

SPEAKER_07 (01:15:44):
Um audio, actually.
Okay, so I can work and dothings at the same time by
listening.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:51):
Okay.
So do you have a Spotifyaccount?

SPEAKER_07 (01:15:54):
Yes, I do.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:55):
Okay.
Well, you can then stream myaudiobook for free that I
narrate.
So if you're driving ortraveling, I tell people that is
probably the better way for youto do it.
It's it's a little more fun too,because um, I had never listened
to an audiobook before.
And I was really hyper focusedwhen I was creating this project

(01:16:19):
because I wanted it to be asawesome as it possibly could.
And the audiobook reallycaptures things in that you
cannot get on the page, such asthe audio clips, the things that
I'm talking about.
Um, so it was a very uniqueexperience doing that.
I recorded that uh over 40 days,uh, literally two months leading

(01:16:41):
up into the book release.
And um, I had fun with it.
People, some people havedescribed it as like a little
bit of an acid trip, whichthat's fair.
It's got it's got like a littlebit of a Hunter S.
Thompson kind of feel to it.
He's he's a little bit what likeone of my idols, I would say, in
terms of someone I look to whois a writer.
So I would say um spin it on onthat uh to really get the full

(01:17:03):
immersive experience.

SPEAKER_07 (01:17:06):
Okay.
Okay.
All right.
So you know what?
We I don't have no morequestions for you, baby.
Okay, I don't have no morequestions for you.
It's real nice, clean cut here.
Uh, but again, thank you so muchfor being here and just sharing
your truth and your story.
Uh, it's been amazing.
You your story has been realraw, real incredible,

(01:17:29):
insightful.
Um, just listening to you eventalk about light and dark and
how you were able to walk thatum fine line.
You know, it's so funny becauseour birthdays, you are my
birthday twin.
And just when you talk and youspeak, that's the same thing of
me being in the industry.
I always used to say I'm walkingthat fine line.
Um because you you are, youyou're making sure that you stay

(01:17:51):
as balanced as possible and usas Libras, that is our sign that
we want to be as balanced aspossible.
And it's just amazing that nowwe even reconnected on the back
end of things on on our outsideof the industry.
It's funny, even though we'renot actively in the industry, we
still are speaking of theindustry of part of a chapter in

(01:18:14):
our life.
You you understand?
So that's something really, youknow, great.
And I I just give you bigrespects on just this whole
conversation.
It's just been truly good.
So if there's any last wordsthat you have for our No, I'm
I'm I'm seeing all the commentshere.

SPEAKER_00 (01:18:30):
Uh, thank you.
You guys are being uh amazing.
I appreciate that.
Like, like when you get love,uh, and you know, some people
are gonna be pissed off everynow and again.
That's fine.
But I've received like I wasreally worried releasing this
book, it would bring down thewrath of so many people, and
that really hasn't happened atall.
Um, a lot of people who wereoutside of the business who read

(01:18:52):
about the book or learned aboutit, they're spreading the word.
And I'm like, hey man, we are weare on cult classic status.
That's that's the point we'regetting to.
So I'm like, cool, the slowburn.
I'm okay with the slow burn.
So very appreciative.
Um, I didn't really catch muchof much shit as I thought I
would from the porn industry.
Right.
We could dissect that a littlebit, but I think the truth is

(01:19:16):
that a lot of people in theindustry, they're very consumed
in themselves and their brandsand their own content to read my
book or or or my nonsense.
So uh I didn't really incur thewrath of the porn industry that
I thought I would.
In fact, I got nominated for anAVN award.
And I I I I kind of goof on AVNa lot in the book, you know.

SPEAKER_07 (01:19:39):
Congratulations on that one.
Julie, congratulations on thatone.
You know, I guess a lot oftimes, you know, people they
have to allow people to telltheir stories in their
experience and what it is, youknow, just period.
Um, and that's with yourexperience with those different
people, you know.
Um, some are the same as othersand some are different with it.

(01:20:01):
And I think we are in a point intime that uh a lot more people
are taking accountability oftheir actions of what they do,
especially when it comes to theadult industry, because we have
been a punchy bag of a lot ofthings, you know, period.
And it's like, okay, you know,that's there's another one of
our people that's going outthere and speaking their
experience from that, and it allcould be real because it was

(01:20:23):
always, as you say, a light inthe dark, there's always a
positive or a negative tosomething or somewhere somehow.
Where do I fit in in that?
And if I do fit in on that darkside or that negative side, how
can I bring myself to thepositive side or where it can
balance my scale?
If that makes sense.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:20:42):
Yeah, yeah.
No, you gotta find that thingthat keeps you uh in the light,
really, whatever that is, youknow.
And I fortunately had my things.
I'm grateful I had a goodsupport system with friends that
were outside the industry thatthat kept me on the right side
of the fence.
Um, but uh yeah, it's it's veryimportant that people in the
industry find that because itcan get lonely in there and it

(01:21:05):
can definitely get tough inthere, for sure.
Well frozen.
Frozen frozen again.
He likes my t-shirt.
Thank you, figure bounty.

SPEAKER_07 (01:21:20):
Any advice for them?
Did you did you hear myquestion?

SPEAKER_00 (01:21:24):
No, no, it was frozen, but go ahead again.

SPEAKER_07 (01:21:26):
All right, I said if do you have any advice for
anyone that's thinking abouteither becoming a producer or
director or even a performer,what would your advice be to
them?

SPEAKER_00 (01:21:35):
I would tell them to read my book, seriously, because
it is really for like it's veryinformative if you're someone
who wants to get into thebusiness.
Um, I think the truth is if youare a producer/slash performer,
you have more of an edge uhright now because it seems like
companies because of theliability and because of things,

(01:21:58):
it's better to have a performerthat is creating the product.
Um, but you know, you you reallyjust have to just try to figure
out a way to get in, but be goodat what you do, you know.
Um, you know, how many times,you know, there's dudes that
say, I could be a malperformer,I could be malperformer.
I'm like, okay, can you keepyour dick hard in a room full of

(01:22:19):
strangers that might not exactlybe ideally temper temperament to
have the right temperature?
Um, and not have the thepositions, the comfortable
positions that you have in yourbedroom, because you're not
always going to get a bed.
Most likely you're gonna getlike a hard desk or something,
and you have to open up.

(01:22:40):
So I would say, you know, youreally just have to be good at
what you do.
And in the industry, I mean,cream really does rise to the
top.
It's the truth.
So uh it's no longer for me, butjust be careful, be a good dude,
be ethical, don't be a scumbag,don't be sleazy, because you
you'll get ratted out prettyquick on that.

(01:23:02):
And just just be a good person.

SPEAKER_07 (01:23:04):
I thank you so much.
This has been uh uh this hasbeen an amazing uh interview.
What about you guys?
Last words before they kick usoff completely.

SPEAKER_05 (01:23:14):
None at all.
Thank you very much.
And uh I want to get to thatbook.
You want to get to that book?

SPEAKER_00 (01:23:20):
Hey, uh, if you if you make it through and you want
to talk specifics, I'll be happyto come back on and and uh be a
repeat guest.
I love I love doing this.
This is fun for me.

SPEAKER_07 (01:23:29):
Yeah, this is good.
This is this this is good.
We we gotta talk, we gotta talk.
So I want you to stay on just alittle bit longer with me after
we um we click this out.
Um, all right, my listeners, myBTG crew.
I thank you all so much forcontinuing just to be here with
us.
Um, and just the knowledge thatbreaks the stigma.
This is what we talked abouttoday.
So let's keep talking, let'skeep listening, and let's keep

(01:23:51):
bridging the gap.
And don't forget to tune in tothe next time for another bold
and unfiltered conversation.
Again, as I always say, be goodto one another and yourselves,
and always keep the sexy have anamazing, an amazing weekend.
Have a good one.

SPEAKER_06 (01:24:05):
All right, my beautiful people.
Well, that is the wrap foranother episode of Axe Naomi
Bridging the Gap.
And I hope today's conversationhas brought something beautiful
within you and gave you thetools to elevate your love life
to the next level.
And I want you to remember,transformation doesn't happen
overnight.
It happens one conversation, onechoice, and one moment of

(01:24:27):
courage at a time.
So you have everything withinyou to create the love and the
intimacy that you deserve.
So don't forget to subscribe,click that little button bell,
click on the look for the level.
So share this with someone whoneeds to build it, and let's
keep it with the open movementtomorrow.
You can find us on ApplePodcasts, Spotify, Apple Radio,

(01:24:50):
and everywhere iPhone MyLiverpool.
You can follow me on Instagram,TikTok, and all the social
platforms at Ad Naomi and forour daily inspiration and five.
So until next week, keepgrowing, keep loving, and
remember to always be good.
This is your girlby got it.

(01:25:11):
Now I'm the banks here.
I'll see you next time on AdsNaomi Virgin forget.

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