“The Intersection of Mental Health and Relationships” with guest Alex Olosunde

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:13):
Welcome to a podcast like no other.
Get ready for insightfulconversations, diverse
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This is Ask Naomi, which is theGap Podcast.
Join your host, the dynamicNaomi Banks, as she delves into
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Each week, Naomi is joined byspecial guests to bring their

(00:34):
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(00:58):
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SPEAKER_04 (01:26):
All right, my beautiful people.
Well, welcome to X NaomiBridging the Gap Podcasts where
we talk about love, sex,relationship, cultural
differences, and so much more bybridging the gap between them
all.
And teaching the world on sex,language, attitude, and
spiritual uplifting.
But this month, this month,we're doing something special,
right?
We are doing something special.
But before I tell y'all that,yeah, I know who talking, right?

(01:48):
I am your host, Naomi Banks.
And today we are continuing ourconversation for our week three
of our love and mental healthseries for our mental health
awareness month.
This is where we take each weekthis May that we've been shining
a light on the connectionsbetween love, relationship, and
mental wellness.
And tonight we are diving intoone of the most important topics

(02:11):
yet.
And that's how to navigaterelationships by prioritizing
mental health for yourself andyour partner.
So, listeners, I want to remindyou all why this all started.
And if anybody new that's tuningin, I want to tell you about
this uh letter that I wasinspired by that I received.

(02:41):
That I tried to appease my exesand lost myself in the process.
I've been diagnosed with PDSD,and I'm not sure if I should
tell any new profound lovers orjust accept the fact that I'm
going to be single forever.
See, now that one sentence iswhat sparked this entire series.
And tonight this conversation isfor him and for anyone else

(03:05):
who's ever wondered if they arelovable because of their pain
and not in spite of.
All right.
So I want to share somethingwith you.
Just um the other day, it cameup on my on my um IG thread.
Um, and it was um, so I'm justgonna read to you.

(03:27):
And it's so heartbreaking, butthis reminds me of why this
conversation matters so deeply.
Well, in Nebraska, there's awoman named Bailey Coch,
K-O-C-H, and she has beensharing her journey publicly.
Her husband, Jeremy, has battledsevere mental illness.

(03:48):
Has battled severe mentalillness.
And um she has started aGoFundMe page to help pay for
this TMS therapy, is therapy,um, what's it called?
Transcra transcranial uhmagnetic stimulation, um, after
he attempted to unalive himselfa few times.

(04:10):
And I'm trying to find the rightwords to say without us getting
flagged.
Well, apparently um Bailey wasdoing everything right, right?
And she loved him openly.
Um, she used her voice toevogate for mental health care,
but just hours before theirson's high school graduation,
just the other day, Jeremy tookhis life, the life of his wife

(04:32):
and their two sons and himself.
You know, Bailey had beensharing her story through
Facebook page called AnchoringHope for Mental Health.
And she was fighting for him.
She was fighting for him, andstill this happened.
So this is why we're here.
This is why you're here.

(04:54):
Mental health illness is just aprivate struggle.
It can have public generationalconsequences, but if it goes
untreated or unsupported, theseare the things that happen.
So, what I want to do right nowis I want to remind you all that
we have actually um created uh afunding, a fundraiser for that

(05:18):
we have paired up with umAmerican Health Awareness, uh
Mental Health America to dothat.
And that's where 100% of ourproceeds go to this as well as
our um mind and heart merchright here.
And I want to thank everybodythus far that has um grabbed the

(05:41):
merch as well as has donated,but I want to go a little
further.
I wanted to show how reallytruly strong that our BTG crew
is and how much we care aboutthis.
You understand what I'm saying?
Because it touches so manydifferent people, so many
different families, so manydifferent individuals.
And it's just it's I want to bemore than us just talking about

(06:03):
it.
Let's do something about it, allright?
So before we bring our umspecial panel to the stage,
we're gonna take a quick break,all right?
It's your girl, D Goddess, NamiBanks here on Axe Naomi Virginia
Got Podcast, and we'll be rightback.

SPEAKER_02 (06:19):
Washington Wells Institute focuses on healing
always.
For me, if I look good, then Ifeel good.
If I feel good, then I share thegood.
If I share the good, then Icelebrate the good.
If I celebrate the good, then Ilive the good.
So I can be paid to be mygreatest.
But I have to learn the good tobe the good.

(06:39):
So, what does it take to be thegreatest?
It's as simple as a free15-minute consultation.
Be kind to yourself and healalways.

SPEAKER_01 (06:49):
Ready to transform how you think about love and
mental health?
This May, join host Naomi Banksand Dr.
Will Washington and expertguests on Love and Mental
Health, a powerful four-partseries exploring relationships
through the lens of mentalwellness.
Every Thursday at 6 p.m.
Pacific Standard Time on AskNaomi Bridging the Gap.

(07:09):
Do you have a story to share?
Your experience matters.
Email us at asking at gmail.comand be part of the conversation
that's changing lives.

SPEAKER_04 (07:20):
Well, welcome back.
Well, before we introduce ourpanel, I can't forget to shout
out Dog Hom Like Mike.
What's going on?

SPEAKER_06 (07:27):
What's happening?
What's happening?

SPEAKER_04 (07:28):
All right, and also to all the new, old, and loyal
BTG crew, I want to say thankyou to all of those that have
donated thus far that came inhere and just been showing love
all day, every day here.
Um, but also I want y'all toremember that every penny
counts.
You know, when you heard thestory earlier before the break,

(07:49):
that we need more.
We need more.
So I want you to truly show themhow strong a community that BTG
can be.
So dogtown Mike Mike, he has umput the link up once again.
You can also go to axnyomi.com,and I'm gonna spell Naomi for
you if you don't know.
That's N-Y-O-M-I.
And it's right there.
And again, 100% of all proceedsfrom this this month goes

(08:12):
directly to them.
All right, so let's introduceour incredible guest.
Our incredible guest.
Yes, well, first our guest isAlex Olasund.
And I hope I'm pronouncing hername right, which is a licensed
marriage and family therapistrelationship coach and a fierce
advocate of emotional wellnessand love.

(08:34):
She's worked with hundreds ofcouples and individuals helping
them to navigate communicationbreakdowns, trauma bounding, and
real work of healing insiderelationships.
So, Alex, thank you for beinghere.
Well, welcome.

SPEAKER_05 (08:50):
Hello, thank you so much for watching.

SPEAKER_04 (08:52):
I would just say I already said something like
that.
No, right?

SPEAKER_06 (08:56):
All right, so I appreciate you having it.

SPEAKER_04 (08:58):
No, that's right.
And of course, our residenttherapist, Dr.
Will Washington, you know all ofhis things.
He's a licensed clinicalcounselor, a psychedelic
assistant therapist.
He's also a health psychologyPhD, an expert in trauma,
emotional fatigue, and powerfulvoice in the world of secondary
healing.
Hey, Dr.
Will.

SPEAKER_02 (09:17):
It's so good to be here, and it's so good to see
you, Alex.
I'm so happy you can be here.

SPEAKER_04 (09:21):
Yes, thanks.
So, y'all ready for thisconversation?
Sure.

SPEAKER_05 (09:25):
I'm definitely excited.
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (09:27):
All right.
So, you know, um, I just want tostop right here and go first to
the what I just read about whatI saw on social media just the
other day.
This happened just two days agowith the family.
Um, it was actually uh uh asuicide unalived, and he
unalived the rest of his familyum less than hours before his

(09:49):
son's um graduation.
I know um, Dr.
Will, you and I, as well asAkilah last week, we had a
conversation on how um kind ofbalancing that when with family
and having family in thatprocess.
When I went down and I read allof the, well not all of them,
most of her social media posts,and she was truly advocating for

(10:11):
her husband for years, foryears.
Um, and they were um high schoolsweethearts for that, and this
is for both of you for and myquestion is this is that how can
we, and I want to make sure thatI say this right because I was
talking to dog pal Mike Mike,how when you are so in love with

(10:33):
someone and you want so hard tosave them, but they don't want
to save themselves, not becauseum they do it purposely, but
because there's something iswithin them that it won't allow
them to live any any longer.
How do you get through that?
How do you, you know, I guesshow do you balance that away?

(10:55):
What's important?
Does that make sense?
Does that question make sense?

SPEAKER_02 (10:59):
Yeah, it does.
Yes.
And and I I I can say that everyrelationship does have a
capacity.
Every relationship does have alimit.
Every relationship does have itsbeginning, middle, and end.
And sometimes when we go beyondour capacity, we end up doing
the exact actually the harm whenwe intended to do well.

(11:23):
So that's a really hard questionum to ask because I've seen it
before happen.
I know Alex, you I know you'veseen it a lot as well.

SPEAKER_05 (11:31):
Yes.
Yeah.
Um I would say that one of thethings that come to mind is just
how we understand ourrelationships and how much like
stock we're really willing toput into them, right?
Like Dr.
Will said about capacity.

(11:53):
Um, I think capacity is one partof it, but I think it just has
to do with individualrelationship skill ability.
And that's the thing that I findin our society that is lacking
quite a bit.
Um, and when I say that, I meanlike an individual ability to be
in a relationship, the skillsrequired.
Um, and a lot of people justdon't understand what it really

(12:14):
takes.
And when it comes down to it,you're not really willing.
Some people just aren't willingto do what it takes anymore for
various reasons.
Um, sometimes you find that it'sheartbreak.
I'm uh that you've beenunfaithful and I no longer am
interested in trying.
Um, or I've been you've beentreating me this way for so
long, I don't want to do it, orI don't feel anything for you

(12:35):
anymore.
Um, and but there are variousthings that can can result in
that eventual end.
Um, but I do find that that'ssomething that is quite
prevalent.
Um, and so trying to find thebalance is understanding where
you end and they begin, likealways being able to keep that

(12:56):
in mind and not losing yourselfin a person.
Um, because then you end up withmore tragic situations like that
where you're unable to kind ofmanage your emotions and unable
to allow other people to be awayfrom them.

SPEAKER_04 (13:12):
Yeah.
You know, thanks, thank you forsharing that.
It's because when I was readingthat, I read it the other day
when I was reading, I said, youknow, I'm going to bring this
into the show tonight.
And um, I I felt the reason why,because I know there's probably
a lot of other voices out therethat's probably in the same
situation to where for yearsthey're going back and forth and
taking them, you know, back andforth.

(13:32):
He's he's attempted four times.
And um it was it was um even inher hashtags on our Instagram,
she was praising that he wasalive on that on a day.
Like he said, um, hashtag dad isalive today.
You know, we're happy that dadis alive today.
And when you look at some of thepictures that he had, you know,

(13:53):
it looked like like he reallywanted to be in with the family,
just so beautiful.
But then it was like he wasfighting something inside.
It's just the love that she hadfor this man that you can see
through every post from um thevideo and from the words that
she shared, you know, with that.

(14:14):
And it's hard to, I believe thatit's hard to know the difference
on when that capacity is therebecause we have um, I guess you
you and I talk about itsometime, Dr.
Well, we have that where we wantto be a superhero or save
others.
You you understand what I'msaying?

(14:35):
And we think it's so easy byjust by a simple magic word or
something, and then it's deeperthan that.
You know, it's deeper than thatmagic word of what it is.
Um, when he was diagnosed, and II know I didn't want to go
through all this, but I'm goingto because it's it's it just
happened, you know, justrecently, just two days ago, so

(14:55):
it's fresh in my mind um withit.
So when that happened, they hadjust gotten him out of the
hospital just in time for hisson's graduation.
And I was telling Dog Pal Mike,Mike, I said, wow, I said, the
way that I'm thinking about thisis that, and I and I promise
you, I hope we don't get umflagged for this, but he felt

(15:18):
like he needed to unalive themso he can leave because he felt
like they kept saving him orthat he's not worthy to be
saved.
So it's like how who how who'sever listening right now and
possibly going through that,what will you what would the
words or what kind of help wouldyou have for them to start on

(15:38):
that journey to wanting to stayalive?
Am I am I saying the rightwords?

SPEAKER_05 (15:45):
Yes.
Um I get this a lot.
I feel like the thing that Ikeep coming back to is every day
that you wake up is a decentday.
It's a decent day.
It's a and every day that youwake up is an opportunity to
have a good day.

(16:06):
And I think understanding that,you know, maybe it did not
happen today.
Maybe the person that you wantedto make up with didn't receive
it well.
But tomorrow is another day andanother chance at finding
success, finding happiness,finding purpose, finding bond,
finding love, whatever it isthat you're looking for.

(16:29):
Um it could be tomorrow.
And wouldn't you just want toknow?
Right?
Like, and so that's kind of umjust something that I find
myself saying to a lot of peoplewho are struggling with that and
trying to make it through asituation that you know don't
get too caught up fighting andtrying to maintain happiness,

(16:54):
it's a feeling they come andthey go.
It is not meant to be a statusin which you stay, otherwise, we
would not have other emotions,right?
And so understanding that thatprocess you're looking for
contentment, not happiness, andthat looks a little different.

SPEAKER_04 (17:11):
You know, I love that you say that because you
know, happiness is all is it italways seems to be the ultimate
goal of everyone.
You you understand what I'msaying?
And we think it's like apermanent thing, like that's the
destination of what it is, youknow, or what that is.
Dr.
Will, do you want to uh sharesomething with yeah?

SPEAKER_02 (17:30):
I I uh so this is gonna be a little, I'm a little
different.
My philosophy is a littledifferent.
Go ahead.
So I'm I'm a little moreaggressive existentialism.
Um, so for me, the the unalivingis is not really the end of
anything, it's actually thebeginning of living, and a lot

(17:52):
of times you not wanting to liveis actually the beginning of how
you're supposed to live healingas a lifestyle.
And so for me, I believe thatdeath is just as important as
living.
Um, and so my first statement isyou know what type of
unburdening do you want tocreate through your death?

(18:13):
What what do you want, what doyou want to create?
What do you think it's gonnacreate?
Because death isn't mean goingor going away, it means you're
creating another lifestyle forother people.
So for me, I would actually mapout their entire life
afterwards.
You would go into it.
So, what's gonna happen to her?
What's gonna happen to yoursons?
What's gonna happen to them?
What are they supposed to do?

(18:33):
What are they supposed to bedoing?
You've created all that youthink that because of this loss
for yourself, you're gonna havethe you're it's gonna create
this much power for everybodyelse.
How rational is that?
What does that look like foryou?
And what is the purpose of yourdeath, right?
What why what is the purpose?

(18:53):
What is the meaning of it?
Because a lot of times thatmindset is a part of the savior
complex as well, right?
And then how's the savior whenthe savior falls, they're
usually self-abusing by beingthe rescuer.
Yeah.
So after trying to rescueeverything else in your life,
you end up becoming sacrificial.

(19:14):
So it's it's one of those thingswhere for me it's actually very
rational to want that.
So my thing is is what's themeaning of it?
And a lot of times they don'tthey don't they get tired of
trying to plan that all outbecause they didn't really think
that far ahead.
They were just in the in the inthe passion of not wanting to
live rather than the reality ofit.

SPEAKER_05 (19:35):
So I guess sorry, Alex.
No, I really I really wanted tojust connect something if it's
okay.
I think it's important tounderstand like the difference
in style and the difference inapproach, right?
So, because of his his leaninginto existentialism, um, I am a
person who is more familysystems and relational oriented.

(19:56):
So for me, it's like, okay,let's look at you know what's
going on in your relationship,let's look at what skills you do
and don't have, let's look atwhy you're having trouble
getting there.
Maybe there is a diagnosisthat's keeping you from being
able to manage your emotionseffectively.
Maybe we should get apsychiatrist involved to help us
out with that, right?
Um, there are a lot of thingsthat you know um I look at, but

(20:19):
it's a little bit morerelational.
And so depending on thepatients, I will say that some
patients are willing to look alittle deeper and really go into
that trauma space because it allleads back to trauma, usually,
unfortunately, really um, insome capacity of childhood or
recent.
Um, it's the basis for that typeof ineffective attachment style.

SPEAKER_04 (20:46):
Okay, we I I I truly appreciate both of you on this
insight because I know this justcame up like this one.
So let me just don't know this.
Seriously, thank you all forthat because it was bugging me,
it was on my mind.
And um, you know, usually I godown a little rabbit hole.
So I was trying not to go downthe rabbit hole, but also make
aware of this that this happenedbecause, like you said, we are

(21:08):
in mental health awarenessmonth, and something like this
is happening.
And this is what we're talkingabout.
We're talking about love andmental health, and so why not
even bring this up for it?
All right, so now I got aquestion for our listeners right
now.
All right.
Have you ever been in arelationship that felt amazing
on the surface but emotionallyexhausting underneath?

(21:30):
Well, that is what we're gonnabe talking about tonight.
The ways of mental health, thehow it affects our love lives
and how love in turn can eithersupport or sabotage our mental
wellness.
So, Alex, I got a question foryou.
Why is it so important to talkabout mental health inside of

(21:51):
relationships?
And what are the most commonchallenges that couples face,
especially when one or both ofthe partners are struggling
emotionally?

SPEAKER_05 (22:01):
I think important because everything that you feel
is going to be reflected ontoyour partner.
The baggage that you carry fromthe trauma or from the previous
diagnosis or whatever healthmental health concerns that you
have, they don't go away.
You just carry them into yourrelationship.

(22:24):
And so, you know, it's importantto be open and honest and also
be non-judgmental.
And I think that's somethingthat we struggle quite a bit
with, especially in our ourBlack and Brown communities.

SPEAKER_04 (22:38):
Right.
Thank you for that.
Let's talk about how self-loveand internal regulation create a
safer connection.

SPEAKER_02 (22:50):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (22:52):
Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 (22:53):
So for me, I I in my thought processing, love can
look you can be addicted tolove.
And sometimes love has the powerto um romanticize hardship in a
relationship where you thinkit's it's it's resilience.
Our relationship's resilient.

(23:14):
No, it's it's codependent.
That's not resilience.
Um, you know, oh, we fight backand forth, we break up to
makeup.
That sounds like you're tryingto role-play your trauma and
trying to relive your trauma andtrying to give yourself the
victory, right?
And a lot of times withself-love, why we need it is
because it teaches us to bestrong enough to be vulnerable
with ourselves.
And we don't really take thetime out to recognize I love

(23:38):
what I'm feeling, I love whatI'm doing, but at what cost is
it doing to my partner?

SPEAKER_06 (23:44):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (23:45):
And sometimes we don't take into that, that take
them into account because welove the way that we feel, but
we don't realize that justbecause you feel good doesn't
make the relationship great.
And that balance is so importantbecause you know, even when they
have clients that haveinfidelity, we realize that
cheating is a symptom of abigger problem, right?

(24:08):
There's there's a bigger problembehind that, but we never get
through that because the pain,the hurt kind of removes us, and
we forget that self-love helpsground us.
And so um to teach self-love ina matter of a dysfunctional
relationship is very hardbecause we have to get through
the the ego of what may or maynot be happening.

SPEAKER_04 (24:30):
Yeah, excellent.
Thank you so much for that.
Thank you so much for that.
So, Alex, would you like to addon to that?

SPEAKER_05 (24:38):
Um to that.
Um, I know, right?
Question again?
No.
Um, and so I would say that whenit comes to love, love is a
double-edged sword likeeverything else.
Um, I'm a big fan of the middleway, the the kind of um
yin-yang, the understanding oflight and dark and the fact that

(25:01):
you need both again kind ofexist, right?
Um, and appreciating them.
And so love is one of thosethings that is very helpful
because it can hold you in darktimes, it can keep you, it can,
you know, uh give you strength,it can give you power, it can,
it can save lives, right?
It can do a lot of differentthings.

(25:22):
Um, but some of those things areharmful.
And some of those things are,you know, you love somebody so
much that you'll put them beforeyourself or your you will allow
them to control you or make youdo things um that you maybe
don't want to do and don't thinkthey're healthy for yourself or
for your children or anyoneelse, right?

(25:44):
And so um I think it's importantbecause when you talk about
codependency, um, we startgetting into a lot of symptoms
um around, you know, usuallypast trauma of either
abandonment um or some type ofinsecure attachment.
And so what I find in practiceis that a lot of people don't

(26:06):
realize that um they havesymptoms that mimic certain
diagnoses that I don't want toget too deep into because I'm
not a big fan of diagnosingpeople as a as a as a practice,
but um there are certain thingsthat you should be aware of in
terms of dysfunctionalattachments and like hostile

(26:28):
relationships, and occasionallywe have to just be honest with
ourselves, and I think that'swhere our our styles kind of
switch because I get a littlebit more in your face, and then
Dr.
Will goes, let's love yourself,right?
Um, and so but I tend to be alittle bit more, let's be honest
with ourselves, right?
There's a part of you thatenjoys this dysfunction, and we

(26:51):
have to find out what that'sdoing for you, right?
And like they also, how are youcontinuing the cycle?
Because from where I sit, evenin situations like uh
infidelity, which is often hardto get to a patient with, but
um, it's a process, but it's anunderstanding that even if um I

(27:14):
cheated, that it doesn't excuseme from cheating, let me be very
clear.
But like Will said, um, there isa situation there where
something else is going on,right?
There's something that ismissing, and you have to be
willing to take accountabilityfor that, right?
For the conditions of yourrelationship.

(27:35):
That is a two-person problem.
And so being willing to kind oflook at yourself and say, okay,
I realize that because my dadwasn't around, I tend to give
you 20 chances because I don'twant to be by myself and I
really enjoy that male love.
I understand that I'm aggressivebecause I feel like you're

(27:57):
getting close to me and you'remaking me feel uncomfortable and
vulnerable.
And now I want to run.
Sometimes you have to understandthat if you are wrought in chaos
and your family of origin wasalways into some goodness knows
what, um, there's a point whereyou will bring chaos into your

(28:18):
space because you're not used toliving without it.
And so you will inadvertently,and not that you're trying to do
this, but you will bring it toyour space, to your
relationships.
And so being able to kind ofreally be real with ourselves
and say, okay, where is mydysfunction?
Because when you look around andyou have dysfunctional

(28:39):
relationships and with yoursiblings and with your parents
and with your coworkers and withyour friends and with the taxi
driver, at some point we have tolook at ourselves and say, Okay,
am I out here?
Is it me?
Like if somebody do I need tohug?
Like, what's going on?
Right?
Something's happening here, andI need to be able to acknowledge

(29:01):
that just as much as being ableto make people um kind of aware
of how to treat me, and that's awhole different issue.
Like, you have to teach peoplehow to treat you.

SPEAKER_04 (29:11):
Yes, I love that.
I love that.
Thank you for that.
So let's go a little deeper.
Let's go a little deeper, Alex.
You know, the work that you dowith couples therapy has helped
so many people find themselvesagain while learning how to love
more consciously.
So, what makes emotional?

SPEAKER_02 (29:30):
Ah, froze.

SPEAKER_05 (29:31):
Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 (29:33):
I liked where this question was going though.

SPEAKER_05 (29:35):
I know, I was like, oh, getting getting revved up.

SPEAKER_02 (29:39):
Right.
But I also wanted to say yourdiagnosis is not the reason for
love.

SPEAKER_06 (29:44):
Of course not.

SPEAKER_02 (29:45):
How to fix love.
Of course not.
You gotta stop doing that.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (29:48):
Yeah, of course not, of course not.

SPEAKER_02 (29:50):
Yeah, we got you gotta stop doing oh, I I can
like this way because of mydiagnosis.

SPEAKER_05 (29:55):
No, no, that's not how it works either.
Accountability.
ADHD is not the reason why youlove this way, just not no, no,
you're accountable for your ownactions and whether or not you
choose to seek help, and that'sunderstanding that if my ADHD
makes me act a certain way, I'mstill responsible for that.
I'm also responsible for seekinghelp or seeking treatment and
making that better for myselfand my family.

(30:17):
And if you decide not to dothat, that's on you.

SPEAKER_04 (30:20):
Yeah, you know what, y'all.
I know that was so amazing.
It was something over heretechnical.

SPEAKER_02 (30:26):
Yeah, we didn't hear your floor.
Okay, yeah, we were good.
We filled them, we made sure weslip the floor a little bit.
We got you.

SPEAKER_04 (30:36):
I was like, Wow, this sounds pretty good.
All right, so let's go to thenext question.
You know, please uh help workwith us right now.
What should a partner do intheir significant other if they
refuses to help or won'tacknowledge their mental health
struggles?

SPEAKER_02 (30:58):
You go first, Alex.

SPEAKER_05 (31:03):
I will never tell anybody what to do because
that's again what I mean, youknow, I'm not a person who has
to lay my head down at nightthinking about it.
Um, but what I will say is thatyou have to decide what you're
willing to how you want to live.
And so there's a point where,you know, if you're willing to
accept the fact that thisperson's depression is

(31:26):
debilitating them and notallowing them to function, um,
and you're willing to make yourlife work around that and
sacrifice yourself to do allthat, like I won't stop you.
Um, I do think that there'ssomething else out there that
would probably be better for youand better for them.

(31:47):
Um, and I think sometimes wehave to look at ourselves and
say, how much am I holding on tothis?
Is it for me or is it for you?
Right?
And be honest with yourselfabout the answer to that
question.

SPEAKER_04 (31:58):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (32:00):
So sometimes it's just not enough.

SPEAKER_04 (32:01):
Right.
You know, I want to say thistoo.
This kind of goes piggyback onwhat you said just a few minutes
ago, not too long ago, about umeven when you achieve an
infidelity, you want to knowwhere that comes from.
So even you holding on tosomething like this, that even
if the other person is not uh itwon't um take accountability or
even want to go find out what'sgoing on with them, but you want

(32:24):
to stay there and go through theprocess with them.
So that's like a more of a selffor yourself.
That, okay, what's it that youneed to do that you feel like
you need to stay into this?
Um and you know, kind of, youknow, jump off the bridge along
with that person.

(32:44):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (32:45):
Yeah, yeah.
I think that that's um somethingthat we see quite a bit um in
terms of the ability to buildthe relationships.
When I'm thinking aboutrelationship skill building, and
I when I do couples therapy, Ialways try to make sure people
understand that yourrelationship is not my client.
That's not how this works.

(33:06):
I am not trying to make you guyswork.
I I it sounds awful, but I'm notthat interested.
What I am trying to do is beable to give you guys the skills
so that if this doesn't work,you're able to go on to the next
relationship, learning theskills that you need to learn to

(33:26):
be the partner that you want tobe.
And if that during that processof trying to become that
partner, you guys decide thatyou're willing to continue to
motivate your motivated to work.
Or I mean, there's quite a fewthings that I do to try to see
assess where that space is.
Um, but once we find that out, Imean, you've got to be willing

(33:48):
to put the work in andunderstand that that's that's a
big, it's not, it's not easy.
Being in a relationship is hardevery week.
When you're married, when you'resingle, when you're dating, it's
all difficult because you'renavigating people.
And so you gotta be willing tokind of put the work in and
understand that it's a payoff,like the payoff is is great.

SPEAKER_04 (34:10):
Wow.
You know, that was such aninteresting intake.
I promise you it was.
I was like, oh, really?
Oh, really?
Yeah.
So let me ask you this how canum we reduce the shame that's
around therapy when it comes topeople going in, especially in
communities of color.

SPEAKER_05 (34:30):
Yeah, that's a great question.
Will you want to say that first?

SPEAKER_02 (34:34):
Of course not.
Go ahead, please.

SPEAKER_05 (34:36):
Thanks a lot.
Um, no, um, I believe thatthat's actually a big passion of
mine.
I'm actually working onsomething to try to navigate
that space myself, which I won'tget into.
But um I know, right?
But what I will say is that umin our communities, we have to
understand that this isn't thesame.

(34:58):
2025 is different, in case youhaven't noticed, look around.
It's different, right?
And everyone lived throughCOVID.
COVID impacted the entire world.
The high, the level of anxietythat the average person has is
just higher.

SPEAKER_04 (35:12):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (35:13):
The social anxiety is extremely high, right?
And so understanding how muchthat's impacting our
relationships, our ability tonavigate spaces, um, we can't we
can't shortchange that and thinkthat we're going to just be able
to overcome in the ways that wehave and be honest with
ourselves again about the factthat some of the ways that we
have overcome have beendysfunctional, right?

(35:35):
Yes, our parents have stayedtogether, our grandparents
stayed together, but at whatcost?
They slept in separate bedroomsin some cases, they, which isn't
all a bad thing, depending onyour relationship.
Let me be clear.
Um, but they didn't showaffection, which isn't a bad
thing, but depending on yourrelationship style, but you
never saw them in a happy spacein their relationship.

(35:58):
Right.
And so we just thought that thatwas dutiful, right?
Um, in 2025, people just wantmore.
There are our standards arehigher, and I think we have to
understand how that hashappened, um, for especially for
the black male, especially.
Um, the expectations aroundmasculinity for the black male

(36:18):
over time is something that'sconstantly in flux.
Um, and right now we're tryingto navigate the difference in
trying to be the more umemotionally present guy, yeah.
And our population doesn'treally think the emotions are a
good thing because ourgrandfathers didn't talk that

(36:41):
way, and my dad didn't do that,right?
Um, and so understanding thoughthat that's the next step.
Before that, we were expected,we were just wanting them to be
present in the home, right?
Before that, because of varioussocial circumstances, um, we had
a lot of parents, one householdparents, right?

(37:02):
And so you end up with males injail and everyone else trying to
figure out how to make it work.
But the males, so we just wantedthem to be there, to be able to
provide.
That was the standard.
Before that, you go back anothergeneration, you had a lot of men
who were um rolling stones, asthey say, right?
Who had different families indifferent places and other

(37:23):
things, right?
So it was more of just gettingthem to be at the place of
residence at 24-7, right?
And so when you look at theevolution of how our our
expectations of what our men,what we want our men to do,
we've been a little behindbecause we've been wanting them
just to like be in our house andprovide for us.

(37:44):
And now our black men arelooking at themselves and
saying, I do that, but I'm gonnago out and hang out with my
friends, or I don't want to beemotionally available for you.
And that's the next step.
And so it's a beautifulevolution, but it is a little
bit frustrating to kind ofnavigate.
And you know, I wouldn't saythat black women are much better
off just in the fact that wehave a little bit more of the

(38:06):
emotional side and not as muchof the being able to be okay
with being a strong black woman,but understanding when
occasionally it's okay to kneel,like, and it not be a
disrespectful space, right?
It'd be I'm gonna let my husbandhave this win today.

(38:30):
I take it.
But instead, I'm gonna let youhave it because you need it, and
that is what it means to be astrong black woman who supports
a man who she wants to standnext to her or stand in front of
her or whatever the case may be.
I prefer mine to stand next tome.
Everybody has their preference,right?

(38:50):
But I think it's justunderstanding that that that's
so important.

SPEAKER_04 (38:55):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (38:56):
Sorry, tangent there, but no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_04 (38:59):
That's that's that's that's some good shit right
there.
Sorry.
It was, it was, and I see somecomments that's coming in here
this too.
All right, so let me ask youthis, and and and of course,
anonymously, can you share astory um where therapy
completely shifted the directionof a relationship of one of your
clients?
Just you know.

SPEAKER_05 (39:20):
Yes.
Um, I had a client and his um apair.
Um, it's notable that they werein a similar work field.
Um what I will say is that theywere struggling um with some
history of a single domesticviolent incident and trying to

(39:45):
move past that.
Um and the female was not, shewas very excited about therapy,
very willing.
Um, and the male came off alittle bit high and mighty in
his approach, and really waskind of challenging me to see

(40:06):
how much I knew about my my uhcraft.
And so um we danced a while.
It was three months in before hefinally we kind of had a
breakthrough and it kind ofclicked for him what I was
asking him to do in terms ofshifting his focus and
understanding and perspective oftheir relationship.

(40:28):
Um, unfortunately, um his wifewas suffering from burnout, and
I had encouraged her to go on atrip.
Um, after doing so, she told herfriends about the incident that,
by the way, had happened threeor four years prior.

(40:49):
And they hyped her up and cameback, and she wanted to get a
divorce.
And so um it was an interestingsession um because we were
really excited to tell her thatwe were about to start talking
about them sleeping back in thesame bed, and then she was like,
actually, I want a divorce, andso um that was a different day,

(41:15):
right?
Um, I tried to work with themthrough this the situation, but
it became apparent that the wifewas on um, she's just in a
full-blown trauma responseconstantly, and she's being fed
by people around her, and soshe's not thinking rationally
and just pulling the plug on herfamily's whole life.

(41:38):
Um, and she was unreasonable andangry and yelling at me in
sessions.
Um, and so it became apparentthat I had to fire the client,
which was interesting.
Um, and I had to tell her thatshe wasn't in a place for
couples therapy, that this isn'tthis isn't what you need, this
isn't what you're interested in,and that's okay.
Um, you should get somebody totalk to, but it should not be

(41:59):
based on relationship becauseyou have no interest in this,
right?
Um, but the best part of thisstory is that I continued to
work with the male because wehad a breakthrough.
Um, and he wanted to continue.
And so as they went throughtheir divorce, he continued to
work and he continued to work,and he got to a space where he

(42:20):
was ready.
It's weird.
He was about three or fourmonths after she had left.
Um, and I told him I, you know,it's one of those, I have
nothing else to teach you.
Like, you are now thinpai, likeyou've made it, right?

(42:40):
Um, and so I told him, I said,your your energy is great, you
have the skills, you're readyfor a relationship, and
something's going to happen soonbecause your energy is saying
it.

SPEAKER_04 (42:48):
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (42:49):
Um, and then he contacted me about four months
later to tell me that he starteddating someone.
Um, and that they met about amonth after we've had that
conversation.
Um, and actually they're gettingmarried this year.

SPEAKER_04 (43:05):
Wow.

SPEAKER_05 (43:06):
Yeah.
So um, you know, I think it'simportant.
I think that story is one of myfavorite because it shows what I
was talking about earlier interms of my client is not the
relationship.

SPEAKER_04 (43:17):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (43:18):
Right?
This wasn't meant to be, thiswas done.
But she didn't want the skills,and that's okay.
Um, but he did, and he got them,and now he's in a relationship
that he's extremely happy in anddoing a lot better at
co-parenting with his ex-wife,even though she's a little bit
difficult.
Um, but they sent me anotification that they were

(43:40):
getting married.
So exciting.

SPEAKER_04 (43:43):
Exciting, exciting.
Yeah, that's yeah, that thing,first of all, that's an amazing
story.
Thank you for sharing that withus.
You know, as you were talkingand you were saying, I was like,
wow, he was so apprehensivecoming into that, the whole
thing.
And she was just so gung ho.
And my mind is like.
Um, was she really coming in tofor the help, or was she coming

(44:06):
in to prove herself wrong ofwhat happened?
You know, so somebody canvalidate her for what transpired
in that one incident that couldhave been a totally different
accident or whatever, but it'syou know, kind of validate her
for what you know she was doing.
Because when I when I'm thinkingthis, I'm thinking of it

(44:30):
personally, uh more of aself-love.
You coming in and you're lookingfor something of a validation of
something with that.
So it could have been so muchdeeper than that one incident
for her with him.
It's like, I really don't needit, but then going forward, this
is why you do need it because ofthe reaction that happened.
You could have reacted a certaindifferent way, but then you're

(44:52):
open to learn how I cancommunicate with someone that is
really willing to understandwhat I'm going through and who
she probably talking to is whoshe's been talking to all along
that caused it in the firstplace.

SPEAKER_06 (45:07):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (45:08):
Yeah, yeah.
I think it's interesting toalways keep in perspective when
we're talking to our friends,right?
Talking to uh co-workers, wherethey're coming from.
I'm very honest in my sessionsabout where I'm coming from,
yeah.
The history that I have, evenwith my own relationship, so
that you understand where my myperspective is just that.
It's an option for you.

(45:30):
Um, and if it's a perspectivethat you can get behind, then
great, right?
Um, but I won't pretend thateverything's just gonna work out
here.
And I don't know, there's gonnabe uh rose-colored glasses
through this whole thing calledtherapy.
It's just a little bit differentthan that, but it can be so
exciting when you're really opento the the journey, and it can

(45:53):
be so helpful.
Yeah, means it's a differentperson in some ways, but really
it's a person that he wanted tobe all along, and that's what's
great about it.

SPEAKER_04 (46:02):
Yeah, I love that again.
Thank you.
Thank you for sharing it.
Just do you have any that youwant to share?

SPEAKER_02 (46:08):
Yeah, just just briefly, actually.
I just want to acknowledge thefact that Alex is such a great
therapist because she's okaywith challenging and okay with
people not being okay with her.
This new generation of clientsdo not like to be challenged,
they don't like to be see to seethemselves, and then they don't

(46:30):
like to feel uncomfortable withtheir clinician.
I hear I hear so many stories ofoh, I didn't like that.
My my past therapist becausethey said something that just
really turned me off.
I didn't like the way it felt.
Like, well, did you talk aboutit with them and try to help
them understand?
Did you go through that?
So that means you didn't resolveanything, you just avoided, and
you found a new therapistthinking that now I'm gonna

(46:52):
enable that.
Because I probably might haveagreed with them too.
And so I'm seeing in this newstate of therapy that people are
going in to be seen as right andcorrect, and that is not what
I'm here to do, and that is notwhat I'm here for.
And I just appreciate this storybecause it's not the the the

(47:12):
Disney fairy tale story of uhthey weren't gonna make it, but
now they're together in a happyever after.
Like, no, they found each otherand they found out what makes it
for them and they make itfunctional for themselves, and
they're able to see themselves.
Yeah, that is what healthinessis, yeah.
So I just acknowledge that, andI think a lot of therapists
today don't get that that thatthat type of scenery.

SPEAKER_05 (47:31):
I think it's I think it's um I think I'm a way a
little bit um direct in some ofthe ways that I say things with
patients, but I work hard tomake sure that they understand
that it's coming from a goodplace.
Like I'm very open aboutcheering for you, I'm very open
about you know wanting you to bebetter.

(47:53):
Um, but I will also go for theride a little bit.
I had a patient that I had togive a diagnosis to that was a
pretty decent diagnosis ofborderline personality disorder,
right?
Um, and for a black woman,that's that's real tough.
Um, and so I had to really Iwanted to just wait until I

(48:14):
could give the evidence, right?
Like I've seen you in a coupleof different situations manage
these situations, and here'swhat I see, right?
But I had that was uh probablyabout seven months in because I
wanted to make sure that she wasready to hear it because she was

(48:36):
not in a space, but she wasready to hear it.
Yeah, she was coming here to betold these people around me are
terrible, and everyone around meis terrible, and all these
people and this and that, and Italked to them, and I just lost
this guy and this friend andthis.
And I'm like, what?
Right, everyone keeps Xing offyour board here.

(48:59):
Um, and so once we got enough ofthose opportunities, I was able
to tell her like this is apattern that extends with
friendships, with family, withthis, and then you're like, Oh,
I see it, right?
And so that's how I'm able toget it.
But I present that very early intherapy.
I'm a person who is not anexpert on you, that's
unrealistic.

(49:19):
You live your life, you know youbest.
My job is to be the expert inthe subject matter, um, which is
understanding habits andpatterns and understanding
people and having this wealth ofknowledge from both you know,
articles and experiences liketoday's podcast or and

(49:41):
everything else, right?
And so um that's what I bring,right?
And so together, though, we haveto figure this out.
And so for me, it's veryimportant that my patients are
active in this role, especiallyif we're talking about
diagnosing something like that,where I wanted I want you to be
on board.
I had to do it with a teenagerrecently as well.

(50:01):
Same diagnosis.
And I had to wait until she wasin a space where she was ready
to hear it, and we talked aboutit, and then she cried about it
because she felt good that therewas a name, like there's at
least somebody else out therewho feels this way.

SPEAKER_02 (50:13):
Wish I had that.
I'm I'm sorry, Alex, but I'm I'mso I'm I did the first month, I
did the first that day.
I met somebody and I was like, Ilistened to their whole entire
story, I listened to everything,and I was like, I'm gonna
explain this as a as a housefire.
Smoke is the smoke is anxiety,the fire is a personality story,
your BPD, and the thing that theis the house was burning is

(50:36):
CPTSD.
And then literally next weekthey came in and um they were
like they went in on me.
They were like, You're wrong,you're sexist, you don't know,
you've only met me for 55minutes, you don't think this
and then like like I don't likeI talked to all my other friends
that are therapists, and theysaid that you're a quack, you
know.
And I'm I'm just sitting herelike I specialize in personality

(51:00):
disorders, by the way.
Just mind you.
So, like, so so I'm sitting hereand I'm like, I said it too
soon, but I don't miss.
And let me tell you why.
And then and then I said, butremember, I'm here to treat the
symptoms, not the diagnosis.
I could I could have given youzebra, zebra gnosis, whatever it

(51:22):
is.
I can make up a diagnosis.
You're still you.
So do you want to help with withyou want to help yourself or do
you want to help the diagnosis?
Because if you want to help thediagnosis, then I I know a great
therapist for that, but I'mtrying to help you.
So let me know what you want todo.

SPEAKER_05 (51:40):
I think that that is that's correct.

SPEAKER_02 (51:42):
I'll be better about that next time, though.

SPEAKER_05 (51:43):
Yeah, I think I think um, I mean, don't wait.
So I didn't want to wait thatlong, but every time I was going
to do it, it was a crash outsession, so you gotta roll with
the chat.

SPEAKER_02 (51:52):
Yeah, where I have a power still, and then I can
yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (51:56):
See, that's also a thing that I'm not gonna do is
fight over power.
But um, but I think the onething that's real interesting
that you said um that I wantedto piggyback off of a little bit
was about this idea.
Oh goodness, don't lose it.
Um, it was an idea that you hadabout um my goodness, maybe I

(52:19):
did lose it.
I apologize.

SPEAKER_02 (52:21):
It was it this the house thing?

SPEAKER_05 (52:24):
Oh, about CP, yeah, about trauma, right?
And I think that it's sointeresting because um we're so
ashamed about our traumas.
We're all so ashamed, and Ithink it's so important to
understand that it's justanother bag.
Like it it's okay.
It's okay.

(52:44):
We all have a bag.
We have a bag that we carry withall of our junk in it when we go
to our relationships, when we gomeet our friends, we have all of
our crap.
The the friend that hurts yourfeelings in kindergarten, the
girl who embarrassed you on thebus.
Like it's all there, right?
Um, but we learn how to carry itand we learn how to protect
ourselves and be better.

(53:05):
And that's where a lot of thisis is going.
And I think when I talk aboutdiagnosing people, I really talk
about the fact that you can havetraits of things and not be
clinically significant.
And so when I start talkingabout symptoms and people get

(53:25):
really irritated aboutdiagnosing, and what I would say
to them is here's the deal notevery cough is a cold, right?
So just because you coughdoesn't mean you have a cold.
You could also have a sneeze,does not mean that you have a
cold, right?
And so it's important that youknow we do that a lot with like
what narcissism, right?

(53:46):
Everybody's a narcissist, yeah.
Everybody because that's a hotword.
We it is, it's a hot word,right?
Um, and so you could havenarcissistic tendencies.
That's fair.
I know a lot of people who do.
Um, but that does not mean thatit's clinically significant,
right?
And if it is clinicallysignificant, that's no different

(54:07):
than having diabetes and needinginsulin.
It's not the end of the world,right?
It is okay.
Sometimes you need a little bitof extra support, um, and that
insulin may be a pill, or it maybe a therapist, or it may be a
community center, or it may be agood group of friends, right?

(54:28):
But understanding that it's okayto be not okay and technically
in terms of a diagnosis, right?
Diagnosis doesn't mean anything.
Do you really care if you have acold or you have the flu or you
have pneumonia when you go tothe hospital?
No, just treat it.
I just want, I just want to beokay.

(54:50):
Yeah, and so what we call it iswhat we call it, and we call it
that for insurance purposes onlybecause insurance has to call it
something, right?
And that's why it's there.
That's it.
Right.
And so do not allow insurancecompanies to dictate how you
feel about yourself.

SPEAKER_04 (55:09):
Wow.

SPEAKER_05 (55:09):
Right.
Because they have thesecharacteristics that they want
to do in order for us to buildyour insurance.
This is all capital, right?
So let's just keep in mind whatthat does and let's keep that
separate from what's going onhere.
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (55:22):
Oh, thank you so much for sharing.
I don't mean to cut you off, butthank you for sharing that with
us, Alex, because as I mentionedbefore early on, this is one of
the reasons why I created thiswhole series anyway, because of
a listener who had wrote in thathad been diagnosed with PTSD.
And when he was sharing it withother people on his diagnosis,

(55:43):
is that they were treating himon the diagnosis, whether of him
as the person.
So when you saying that andsaying that, you know, don't
look and hold on to that.
What I'm hearing is don't holdon to that like it's gold, like
that is who you are, and that'sa description of you, because we
just got to put a name with itfor insurance purposes.

(56:04):
This is don't define who youare.
So you just saying it right now,that just like, thank you, thank
you, girl.

SPEAKER_05 (56:11):
Exactly.
I think it's a good so manypeople who are scared,
especially when it because ofthe another capacity in which I
dabble.
Um, I see a lot of psychologistsand things in the clinical
space.
And so we work closely, andsometimes I see people who need
that kind of support.
Um, and so trying to helppeople, especially black and

(56:32):
brown people with medicationthoughts, it's it's tough.
And so I have to have thatconversation.
Like you will be the firstperson to run to the cabinet if
you got cramps, right?
You'll go take a voter and ifyou got a headache, you got
you'll grab a tyomol, etc.
Your joints hurt, you're runningfor that neproxin, right?

(56:52):
Or that trying to get thatanti-inflammatory.
So, why if you are depressed,are you not willing to try
something that could be helpful?
Yeah.
Yeah, maybe with symptoms orside effects, because I mean,
what turn on a symboltacommercial?
Like, what you know what I mean?

(57:13):
Like the symptoms, side effectsare gonna be what they're gonna
be.
But like, let's let's keep anopen mind, right?
Because you will not withholdthe Tylenol.
So, like, let's just think aboutthis, right?
Right, and so that's umsomething that I really try to
preach, um, and especiallyalongside the idea of therapy,

(57:34):
period, right?
Um, just understanding that it'sokay, it's okay to talk to
somebody who might know just alittle bit more about it than
you, yeah.
But it's also okay to not likeyour therapist, okay.
Like I know so many people whohave one bad experience with a
therapist and never want to goback.
And I apologize for that jumpingon this little thing, but that

(57:55):
is therapists are like shoes.
Try on a couple pairs before youdecide to go barefoot for the
rest of your life because you'rebound to step on a rock.

SPEAKER_04 (58:06):
Beautifully said.
Thank you so much.
All right, so look, I gotta Igot a question for our our
listeners.
Um, have you ever felt stuck inlove?
Not because you didn't care, butbecause the mental weight was
too heavy.
So I want you to drop in thechat, or even um, we're gonna
open up the lines.
I know we went, we're gonna openup the line, or you can give us
a call at 765-275-1527.

(58:28):
That's 765-271527.
And I just saw we just had uh anice little super chat over
here.
So I want to shout out Tampa.
Hey, hey Tampa, I see you all,and I thank you so much for um
giving us that little, you know,that little tip tip tip right
there.
And that would definitely go tothe um mental awareness America.

(58:49):
We got some little friends overhere.
All right, Dr.
Will.
So I'm gonna bring you into thisconversation real fast.
You ready for this?

SPEAKER_02 (59:00):
Let's do it.

SPEAKER_04 (59:01):
All right, all right.
So my question is for you is assomeone who lives in a world of
emotional healing every day,what are some of the key signs
that relationships um is beingaffected by untreated mental
health struggles?

SPEAKER_02 (59:20):
That's such a hard question because there are so
many things I could say.
Um I'll say it like this threethree layers to this.
The first layer is there's apattern that no one's talking
about, right?
So that so two people are comingin with a pattern that no one's

(59:43):
talking about, and so thesepatterns just keep happening,
and no one's saying what theactual issue is.
The second one is how good areyou in conflict?
You have to be good in conflict,and some people are really good
at being bad in conflict.
So my thing is is who's who'sputting out the fire?

(01:00:07):
Who's putting out the fire andwhy is it them?
And then third, what's therepresentation versus the
authenticity?
So a lot of times while I seecouples that I know are having
problems at parties, I'll I'llsee how they interact with with
other people in in publicspaces.
So I'll notice well, how closeare they together?

(01:00:30):
I'll look at um you know how farthey're separated, how are they
interacting when you know onegroup's on this side, the other
group's on this side.
I'll look at the dynamic of howthey represent each other in
public.
So for me, it's really about thepattern, how you deal in
conflict, and then also what'sthe dynamic when they're in

(01:00:52):
public, right?
How do they see each other inpublic?
And that's and that's alwaysinteresting to see the language
and how the language changes onother people, right?
Not that I'm not that I'mstudying people in parties, I'm
just I'm just I'm just watching.
You're definitely studyingpeople in parties.

SPEAKER_05 (01:01:09):
Definitely a case study of parties.
Um did you want to add on tothat, Alex?
Um, I would say that uh I don'twant to go ahead, girl.
I would say that um thepatterns, I think it's important
to acknowledge the conflict isgoing to be there, right?

(01:01:30):
Like the conflict is necessary,it has to happen.
If the one of my biggest redflags, and people say this to me
all the time, and I kind ofchuckle to myself, or sometimes
not to myself, but um, and theysay, um, you know, oh, we never
argue, or we I'm like,somebody's lying.
Like, you may not be arguing,but somebody's miserable.

(01:01:54):
Somebody's giving and giving andgiving and caving or allowing
you just to have your way everytime.
And it doesn't mean that they'regoing to make that loud, but it
may happen, right?
Um, and so understanding thatthat conflict has to happen.
Um, I would say when it comes todeciphering um the existence of

(01:02:17):
a personality disorder or amental health concern, um, it
depends on what it looks like.
But one thing that I will say isit's usually very rigid.
And so what you will notice isthe unwillingness to compromise
or be flexible in certainaspects of your relationship

(01:02:38):
dynamic.
That is one commonality that Isee across the board.
Um, and so whether it isdepression, it's extreme anxiety
or extreme um whatever, right?
It's usually rigid, it's notflexible, it won't allow you to
um be compromising for you know,you get too worked up to be that

(01:03:01):
kind of forgiving, or you gettoo right, like it's it's the
rigidness of of my behaviors, oryou can even know that I may act
irrationally, but I can't helpit.
Um, the unwillingness to alsolook inward and reflect that one

(01:03:21):
is uh can sometimes be anindicator.
Um, but that rigidity issomething that I find quite
often, I would say, and yeah, Iwould say at least 80% of the
situations.
I agree.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:38):
100%, and then you look at the kids too, though.
But then you look at the kids,you see how they see how the
kids act, you can tellimmediately what's really going
on when you look at the kidslike this.

SPEAKER_05 (01:03:46):
Yes, that's true.
Or or vice versa.
You see the parents and you'relike, oh wow.
Um so um, but I think thatthat's that's important to
recognize, um, you know, thatthat second level of like parent
of origin, right?
What how much of this is isfamily of origin and how much of
this is like learned behavior orcaught along the way.

(01:04:08):
Um, and that sometimes will helpyou too if you're they act like
somebody in their family, andhow how disruptive is that?
Um, I also like what Dr.
Will mentioned about how theytreat each other in public.
That always tells you kind ofwhere the relationship status is
at.
Right.
Um, because that will tell thetale and the subtleties, right?
Like, does uh in a simple, Imean, how many times have you

(01:04:29):
seen like Anka Trump didn't wantto hold his hand, right?
We all saw it, they said ithappened, she smacked his hand
away, right?
Like it's those moments, butthose are telling moments,
right?
I mean, that's a little bitdoing the most, but like those
are the telling moments, the waythat you talk about your
significant other when they'renot around.

(01:04:50):
Yeah, right.
It speaks to how much you reallyrespect them and how much you
really value them, right?
And so I think understanding thedifference there is is is very
difficult.
Um, it really is, like Dr.
Will said, but that rigidity Ithink will usually be there and
it will definitely show up inconflict.

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:09):
Beautiful.
Thank you both for that.
So we actually got a collar onright now.
Want to bring them up?
All right, hey, hey, Rockart,how are you?

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:19):
Peace.
What's happening, man?
How y'all doing?
Good to see you.
Dang good.
What's going on?
Love the conversations thatyou're having.

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:28):
Yes, yes.
You got a question?

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:33):
Um, not necessarily a question.
Yeah, I can say it's a question.
I kind of need your advice onlike kind of a situation that
I'm going through.
Y'all had like so many likethings that I'm going through
right now, it's not even funny.
Like, I love your conversationright now.
And like right now, like, I'mkind of dealing with a breakup,

(01:05:54):
and I'm like in a situationwhere I'm noticing a lot of
patterns in my relationship.
And I guess my question wouldbe: what's the definition of
throwing something in somebody'sface?
Like throwing something in theyour spouse's or your
girlfriend, boyfriend's face.
What would you say thedefinition is that?

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:18):
You want to go first, Alex?

SPEAKER_05 (01:06:20):
Uh sure.
I would say, I mean, basic wouldbe, you know, you continuing to
bring it up after it's seeminglyuh squashed or bringing it up in
situations in which, you know,it's beneficial to you and maybe
demeaning to me.
Um, but also I would say thatwhen that type of situation is

(01:06:41):
occurring, um it's important todecipher the difference, right,
between something being thrownin your face or an unresolved
issue.
And so occasionally um I noticethat people argue in circles a
lot, right?
You'll have different arguments.
If we talk about your ex-person,I'm sure you'll say that we have

(01:07:02):
arguments about the same thingsover and over and they never get
resolved.
Um, and that happens a lotbecause of that feeling that,
excuse me, um, feeling that theyare not getting validated.
And if you're not with thisperson, I'm sure you've had a

(01:07:24):
moment where you've not feltvalidated and you've been upset
or something about something,and they said that your anger
wasn't valid, that you can't bethat upset, right?
Or you shouldn't be upset.
Um, and so those moments, um,you know, it's important to
understand that I might bebringing something up that feels
like I'm throwing it in yourface.
Um, but am I throwing it in yourface?
Like for me, throwing it in yourface is that I'm making a

(01:07:45):
display, right?
If I'm just bringing it back upto you, it may be because it's
unresolved to me and I still amnot feeling validated about what
we talked about or understood.
There is a difference betweenvalidating somebody's experience
and agreeing.
They're not the same, and weoften misconstrue the two.

(01:08:06):
Right.
So I don't have to agree withum, I don't know, a woman finds
her husband cheating, she walksup to him and slaps him.
Okay, can we understand why thathappened?
Can we can we relate to theemotional situation feelings
that this person was likelyfeeling in that moment that
allowed them to walk up andsmack that person?

(01:08:28):
Yes, we can all understand howthat probably felt.
Do we agree that that was thebest good way to go about it?
Right, maybe not, maybe not,right?
And so that's the difference.
I can validate that man, thatthat sucked, and I can totally
understand where you're comingfrom, and also still hold true
to the fact that I don't knowthat that was a good idea.

(01:08:51):
I wouldn't have done that, Iwouldn't done it.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:54):
Right, Dr.

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:56):
Wheel.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:57):
For me, it's a matter of they're saying that
because they need some type ofsecurity or reassurance from
you.
And I also want to acknowledgethe fact that you acknowledging
that it's you're breaking up orit is a breakup, right?
There's this there's a there's adifference between being broken
up and in the process of abreakup.

(01:09:18):
So I'm curious which one is it?
Because that my language isgonna change based upon that.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:22):
It's it's really complicated.
Like, because I know I'm not I'mlimited time, and it's just to
kind of go in detail while I'mgoing through, which kind of
tells some good news.
I'm about to have my firstchild.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:35):
So congratulations, Rock.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:38):
Yeah, but the second part is like during the
pregnancy, it's like uh realspace.
Like she pretty much says itlike we're broke, it's like uh
I'm broken up, so I can dowhatever I want.
It's like I could basically hangout whatever, whoever, like
these toxic people, like peoplefrom the past, I could do
whatever.
And it's like kind of going todetail what I was trying to ask,

(01:10:00):
what I go through, it's likeladies, they'll they'll seem
like unappreciative.
Like, example, like they'll say,like, nobody never do anything
for me.
I'm by myself, I'm on my own,and there's times where I'll
feel unappreciated.
It's like, hold on, like, I didlike and I did that because I
like you, like you're not byyourself, and it's like you're

(01:10:20):
throwing that in my face.
Why are you throwing it in myface?
If you did it out the kindnessof your heart, you would never
say nothing.
And I know this this is actuallya pattern with me to the point
where I sit and wonder, like, doI like throw stuff in people's
face?
Or because in my head, I thinkI'm doing it just to show you,
like, this is the love I havefor you.
Like, these examples, it's likeyou're not by yourself.

(01:10:41):
I did this out of love.
I'm doing this because I'mtrying to support, but it
backfires as I'm throwing it inthe person's face.
Yeah, and that's where I get aninsecurity.
It's like, is it me?

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:51):
Like, am I like exactly?
Yeah, and I that's why I had toask you which one is it, because
that's what it sounded like youwere in a conflict of position.
So, um, first principle, theaction is never the reason,
right?
So I see that you're trying toplace yourself in a place of I'm
not saying this because I'mtrying to state my place, I'm

(01:11:14):
trying to let you the value tothat my my my place with you is
genuine.
I'm genuine.
And their irrational behavior ofoh, you can go on, go do your
own thing, go do your own thing,you know, that's an unmet need.
So there's something that theyneed possibly, something that
they need from you to feel seen.
And they did not possibly openup about what it is because

(01:11:38):
they're afraid that somethingmight them something might be
expected of them once they gettoo vulnerable.
And so, um, you know, my my bestrecommendation for that is
really to understand, you know,I would I would change the
language and say, I want to bethe best dad possible, and I
can't do that without makingsure the mom feels loved.

(01:12:00):
What do you need to feel lovedright now?
What does that look like to feelloved right now?
You good?
The biggest thing is changingyour language to saying I want
to be the best dad, and to dothat, I know I have to take care
of you first.
So I'm wondering what is thatyou need to feel loved by me?
What what because what I'm doingis not what you need, so I want

(01:12:22):
to make sure I'm doing itaccurately.
Putting yourself in thatposition of I'm willing to be
what you need, rather than I'mtrying to prove myself.
Because once again, a man thattries to prove himself has
already lost.
So put yourself in a position ofI am here, but I know that I
need to be here for you.
What does that look like?

(01:12:42):
And see if you can actuallyalign with that because she
might be asking for somethingthat's not even realistic, and
then that's gonna let you know awhole nother world.
But I think it goes to yourphilosophy too, Alex.

SPEAKER_05 (01:12:51):
I was gonna say um what she is asking for is
validation.
So uh she's upset.
So um, if you said, Man, I workhard every day, I go to work, I

(01:13:13):
come home, and I feel like thishouse is sometimes just dirty,
right?
In those situations, what you'retrying to say is we should clean
the house.
What you're asking for.
That's kind of that unmet needon the surface that Dr.
Will was talking about.
The unmet need.

(01:13:34):
But the way that you're goingabout it is kind of in a space
that's placing blame and pullingdefenses out of your partner.
In this situation that you justdescribed, you are the person
who is being a little bitdefensive.
Now, let me be very clear,defensive is not a bad thing.
Because usually when you getdefensive, it is because you're

(01:13:55):
used to a person who can be alittle bit rough in the start
of, right?
So when they likely bringsomething to you, it's probably
pretty amped.
Probably um it could be thatyour your family was that way
and your past, right?
Um, but likely people havegotten gotten a little bit
amped.
And so you're used to kind ofhaving to defend yourself.

(01:14:18):
Okay, no shame in that.
Um, what she is looking for fromyou is exactly what Dr.
Will was talking about, thatnext layer of being able to
decipher this relationship easeof that underlying need, right?
So what she's saying is, I needhelp.
I need help, and I'm not good atasking for it.

(01:14:41):
If we talk about this female, Iwould I would bet that she's not
the person who asks for helpvery much.
And so what she's saying to youis that I need help, but I'm not
able to communicate effectivelyenough to just ask you to help
me with the dishes, or can youcome pick up the kids or take

(01:15:02):
them or whatever, right?
And that's where what Dr.
Will's talking about is you'retrying to ask her, what is it
that you're needing?
And so my way of saying that is,what are you asking me to do
differently?

SPEAKER_02 (01:15:15):
Oh, that's a good one.
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (01:15:18):
Because what a lot of times, and we're all guilty
of this, we will spend so muchtime trying to help the person
understand how upset we are,right?
I was this happened, and then Iwas so upset, and then this
happened, and oh man, I wasreal, right?
Like we kind of build into that,but the point, I mean, is I want

(01:15:42):
you to understand what I'mwanting to do differently,
though, because I don't want toencounter this again.
And like I don't I'm tired ofyou telling me like that you
don't get no help, right?
I'm tired of that.
So what is it that you're askingme to do differently?

SPEAKER_06 (01:15:58):
Right?

SPEAKER_05 (01:15:59):
And so yes, and that is and and and be prepared for I
don't know.

SPEAKER_04 (01:16:06):
Yeah, that was gonna be my next my opinion.
So I'm I won't I want to come inon on top of all of this because
I want to first of all I want torepeat what I heard you say,
Rockham.
Um that there is a throwing ofum things in people's faces.
That was one thing that yousaid.
When I heard that, when I heardyou say that, um the first thing

(01:16:30):
that came to mind for me is thatum just a part of the validation
that Dr.
Will said and that um that Alexsaid as well, but also is that
there is something that has notbeen communicated to that person
that they need to hear from you,from you or whoever that person
is that's being thrown in theface.
But also that other person hasto take accountability if you're

(01:16:53):
still doing things to triggerthat same thing.
So when we talk about throwingthings in people's face, we have
to step back and say, Well, whatam I doing that's continued to
trigger this?
Have I, whatever choice anddecision that we made in
agreement on our relationship,are we still am I still doing
that actively?

(01:17:14):
That's one two, let's talk abouther being pregnant.
Let's be real.
You they go through emotionalthings all the different times
in every aspect of so honestly,you don't know where that person
is mentally, emotionally,physically in that state of

(01:17:34):
mind.
And then let's go to what Ialways talk about as healing,
self-love.
You know, you coming into arelationship, she could already
come in with a baggage oftoxicity, you have your toxicity
as well, and you're trying tocreate something that's so
amazing and beautiful when youindividually haven't even tapped
in on healing of yourself.

(01:17:56):
So now you're in there trying tobuild something in a hole and
like, okay, that's we're gonnado.
I also heard you say, Well,she's good with me being around
toxic people, she's good with medoing it.
This she's doing no, she's notgood.
No, no, she's not good at all.
That's that's a that's acomplete lie.

(01:18:17):
Like I like what Dr.
Will was like.
Ask her what how how do you wantme to be, or something like
that?

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:25):
You said I remember that.
You said like instead of asked,like, how could I do it
differently?
Yes, that I heard that one.
Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:34):
I'm gonna say this she don't know.
She do not know.
She don't know.
She don't know.
So it's like, how what wouldthat communication be now?
How would that communication beme knowing that she she don't
know?
And being a woman, especially, Idon't even know what ethnicity

(01:18:56):
she is, but just being a strongwoman, just even what she was
saying with you, is that youyou're throwing it in my face
that you're trying to do thingsfor me.
She seems to be like a strongwoman, and she feels in the most
vulnerable moment right now, notgiving an excuse.
This is just a fact.
Yeah, this is just a fact ofwhat it is, and so now you need
to look as that okay, now whatcan I do?

(01:19:19):
Because I can't control heremotions, but how can I control
me in the way that I react andthe way that I put things out,
and what do I do?

SPEAKER_02 (01:19:28):
Yeah, because that because that because that that
whole that whole moment of oh,you can go date anybody else,
you can go anybody else.
The action is never the reason.
It's not for you to find otherpeople, it's to see if you're
gonna stay.
Yes, are you gonna choose me?
I want to feel chosen, I want toknow you're gonna devote
yourself to me.
I know I want to know you'reserious about this family that

(01:19:48):
we're about to create.
Yes, how created life are youcreating the family?
Yes, that's what she's askingyou to step into that.

SPEAKER_05 (01:19:56):
Yeah, I would agree.
How far along is you?

SPEAKER_03 (01:19:58):
Yeah, he's dual September.

SPEAKER_05 (01:20:01):
Okay, yeah.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Pregnant pregnant.

SPEAKER_03 (01:20:04):
Yeah, she wants to just step up.
Yeah, this is my first one.
Yes, this is your is it herfirst one, too?
No, this is her second, this ismy first.

SPEAKER_05 (01:20:12):
Gotcha, okay.
So, yeah, so then uh she wants acorrective experience.

SPEAKER_02 (01:20:17):
Usually, when women are having the second child,
they want that it's a correctiveexperience.
Yeah, first time it's like I hadto go through this and learn.
Second one's like, Okay, I wantto fix things, I want to do this
better, I want to have so I'mwondering like that'd be a great
exercise on date night, youknow.
They have a movie night, I justkind of have a moment where
you're like, Well, how from thefirst one to this one, what
would you have done differently?
What would you have done better?

(01:20:38):
Well, how do you want thisprocess to be?

SPEAKER_05 (01:20:40):
Yeah, it's also an authority, right?
Sorry, Dr.
Will.
Um I think it's important alsoto understand, like with what
Amy said around being pregnant,right?
Like sometimes you're just notbeing rational.
Like, I'm just gonna throw itout there.
Sometimes it's just nothappening.
Um, and sometimes I just don'tlike you because I'm here doing

(01:21:06):
this, and also I love youthough, don't want you to leave,
but like I feel disgusting,yeah.
So that's also part of it.
It's like go because I'm looklike this, right?
And so, like Dr.
Will was saying, it's a searchfor reassurance too, right?
She needs to still be told thatshe's pretty, she needs to still

(01:21:28):
be told that she's valued andthat you're willing to help.
And you know, it can befrustrating to have to do that
in theory, right for you.
Yeah, um, but also understandlike this isn't likely something
that has just come out ofnowhere.
Like this is, you know, this ispeople get a little bit more
extreme when they're pregnant,but not far, right?

(01:21:50):
Um, and so it's not uncommonthat she's a probably fiery type
of person.
Um, and there's a part of youthat is realistically attracted
to that, and that's a doubleedge.
And so sometimes you have todeal with the other edge too,
right?
Um, and so I think but if you gointo that space trying to be
more validating of like, okay,like I understand that you're

(01:22:15):
pregnant and this kind of sucks.
I mean, it's the best thing inthe world, but also the process
is it's tough on the body,right?
And so, um, and if she has thehistory, depending on how her
relationship went with theprevious baby daddy, because if
he's a piece of crap, which Idon't know, um, then uh she is

(01:22:38):
probably extremely anxious aboutthe fact that you will leave, as
he did.
And not only did he leave, heleft me with a you know, a money
pit.
I mean, children are beautiful.
Um, I love my son to death, butthey're expensive.
They're expensive, okay?
So um it's hard, right?
And so the thought of being asingle mom of two, ha ha yeah,

(01:23:01):
it's a little anxiety-provokingfor anyone, and so I think just
kind of trying to give a littlebit of the benefit of doubt.
Sometimes we need to be able togive each other grace and not
jump for all of the pump fakes,as I like to say, um, in the
relationship.
You have those moments, right?
Where somebody says somethingout of pocket.

(01:23:21):
Um, you'll never be a great dador something.
You're like, where did that comefrom?
What who says that?
But I think it's important tounderstand, like, if it's
something that's hurtful, youcan bring it up later, you can
talk about it later.
In that moment, you need toaddress like what's going on
inside of you right now thatthis is the space where we're
at, like that you're like what'shappening, right?

(01:23:43):
Something's going on in you thatuh you might need my support,
and I don't think I'm showing upfor you in the right way.

SPEAKER_04 (01:23:48):
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (01:23:48):
So help me help you.
Right, help me help you.

SPEAKER_04 (01:23:52):
Yeah, you know, thank you for that, Alex.
Um, Rock, first of all, thankyou for coming in and just uh
did you have any last wordsright right fast before because
we got somebody else coming inwaiting in?

SPEAKER_03 (01:24:02):
I literally like thank all of you.
Like part of me like trying tobuild myself and working.
Y'all also gave me another jewelthat I really been working on.
Even my cousin told me, which isdelivery.
Like, I've really been trying towork on my delivery when it
comes to speaking.
So y'all hit too.
I appreciate y'all.
Good luck, congratulations.

SPEAKER_04 (01:24:25):
Congratulations again.
Yeah, appreciate it.
All right, baby.
Um, all right.
So while we while we got thispause right now, I just want to
remind you all that um whatwe're talking about right now is
just not a conversation that wehave, but we got to take this
conversation and and make actionof it.

(01:24:47):
You know, as I said before, weare very proud to be raising
funds for the mental healthAmerica this month.
And every donation, I mean everydonation, every tea that you
purchased about mine and heartcollection, the the hootie, the
cups, everything, um, you can goto um axenaomi.com as well as
allnaomi creatorspring.com.

(01:25:09):
And also you can go to donate atgiveclassy.org, um, love and
mental health, but you can alsogo to axnaomi.com.
Um, and again, 100% of allproceeds go to that.
Um, if you have tuned in fromthe beginning of, I read um a
story about this family that umthe wife was actually trying to

(01:25:31):
to raise money for treatment.
So these funds will go tosomething like that.
It's like um we can't just betalking about it.
We got to really do action anddo something about it.
This is the start of something,but we really gotta push
forward.
So I'm asking you, my listeners,right here, whether it's$2,$5,

(01:25:51):
$10,$20,$30, whatever that youhave in your pocket right now,
go over to axmy.com, hit that umdonate button on this big old
green, hit it right there.
It's gonna be a couple of signs,boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
I think it says 25 and then itsay special.
If you ain't got 25, hit thespecial.
Give us five, give us 10, giveus whatever that you have,

(01:26:15):
because it is definitely goingthrough a good cause.
And when we talk about mentalhealth, I want to make sure that
people, we're not just talkingabout PDSD, or we're not talking
about bipolar, or we're nottalking about this.
We're talking about things likedepression, we're talking about
things like anxiety, even can Ibe honest?
We're even talking aboutpregnancy brain.

(01:26:37):
Can we be honest?
Yes, you know what I'm saying?
And so with all of those things,we're talking about a whole
caglemorate of things in thisworld.
And when I say this, and peoplebe looking at me, really now
we're gonna say this.

(01:26:57):
Really?
But the biggest thing is beingaware, being aware of who you
are and wanting to get thetreatment, wanting to find the
tools, wanting to get the help,not only for yourself and learn
that, but so you can be a rippleeffect to others.
Just like Rock just shared astory about him and his
girlfriend.

(01:27:18):
That's a ripple effect of sometoxic stuff.
Not talking about anybody, butthat's just what it is.
And I think we've all beenthrough that.
But this is why platforms likethis, this is why platforms like
the season of stuff learned,this is like platforms like what
Dr.
Will and Alex have, you know,where we are bringing this
forward to like, okay, this iswhat we've learned, this is what

(01:27:39):
we've been through, and this iswhat we want to share with you
all.
But it's up to you to implementit, to take it and use it in
your and put it into yourtoolbox.
Put it into your toolbox.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You got any words to um talkabout Mike Mike?

SPEAKER_03 (01:27:55):
I'm just listening today.
I'm just listening.
Good info, good informationtoday.

SPEAKER_04 (01:28:00):
Okay.
All right.
Well, we gotta wrap up the show.
This has been amazing.
It's been so amazing.
First of all, I want to thankyou, Alex, for coming in,
swinging in at the last minute.
You know what I'm saying?
You just alley hoop it right onin there.

SPEAKER_05 (01:28:14):
No worries, no worries when it comes to
Kirachi.

SPEAKER_04 (01:28:17):
And you did the thing.
So if you can tell my listenerswhere can where can they find
you at?

SPEAKER_05 (01:28:22):
Oh yes.
Um plug.
No, um, so I actually ampartnering with Dr.
Will at the Washington WellnessInstitute.
So I am there.
Um, I will be taking newpatients probably in June.
Probably June.
Yep.
Um, and so um right now I'm I'mpretty much working on solely

(01:28:45):
relational work for the moment.
Um, but I will have some otherthings down the pipeline, and
I'll be sure to come back andlet you know.

unknown (01:28:53):
All right, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 (01:28:54):
And Dr.
Also, also, also, Alex is alsoover not just in Ohio, but also
in Cali, working in both spaces.
So, you on my side of the world.
Okay.
Yeah, so so if you're in Cali aswell or in the West Coast, she's
also over there too.

SPEAKER_04 (01:29:10):
Yes, all right, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful,
and Dr.
Will as always thank you forbeing, you know, a part of our
little co-pilot over here, youknow, all the time.
Thank you.
Yes, yes, yes.
You you got any last words?

SPEAKER_02 (01:29:25):
Be kind to yourself, and he'll always I know that's
right.

SPEAKER_04 (01:29:30):
I know that's right.
Again, my beautiful people, BTGcrew.
I thank you all so much for justshowing up.
But let's not just show up inthis aspect as viewers, but go
over there to the websiteaxny.com and I'm gonna spell it
for you.
They that's a-n-y-o-mi.com.
Hit that donate button.
Whatever that you have, donate.

(01:29:53):
Donate and chaotic theory, tellyour your fans to go on over
there and donate too, baby.
Tell them to go over there anddonate too.
And as always, family dog mymic, thank you, baby, for always
just being here right here withthis.
But next week, we have anotheramazing guest coming on.
Dr.
Bisbee is coming on for our lastmonth.

(01:30:15):
This has been a great series.
It's been a great series, itreally has.
Um, and we'll be closing it outon a very bold topic: mental
health, intimacy, andvulnerability.
We're gonna go deep.

SPEAKER_02 (01:30:31):
Sounds like deep.
I'm gonna ask you some questionsbefore next week.

SPEAKER_04 (01:30:36):
Don't ask me.
Until then, keep lovingyourself, keep healing, and take
care of your mind and heart.
Have an amazing and amazingweekend.
Have a good one.
Well, thank you for being a partof another amazing live episode
on Axe Naomi here on NaomiSword.
Now, if you enjoyed today'sshow, I want you to hit that

(01:30:58):
like button or share it withsomeone who needs this method.
And don't forget to subscribeand ring that notification bell
so you will never miss aThursday live stream.
You want to wrap the mind andheart collection in more
expensive works.
The link is in the descriptionbelow.

(01:31:18):
But I want you to remember thatwhen you level up your mind, you
level up your heart.

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