When Love Lies: Betrayal, Secrets & Your Mental Health

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:13):
Welcome to a podcast like No Watch.
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This is Ask Naomi, which is agap podcast.
Join your host, the dynamicNaomi guest, as we delve into
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(00:37):
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(00:58):
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SPEAKER_04 (01:23):
All right, all right, all right.
You know, a few months ago Ireceived a letter, not a DM, not
a comment in the feed, a realletter written on a Sunday
morning by a woman that I'venever met before.
And I'm gonna give it to you howit was.
She was sitting with a homemadecup of tea.

(01:44):
This is what she wrote to me.
And she decided to trust me withher truth.
She wrote me with no agenda, noacts, just her honesty.
And I have been sitting withthis ever since, waiting for the
exact right moment to bring itinto this space.

(02:04):
And tonight is the moment.
Tonight is the moment.
And I'm gonna share with youwhat she wrote.
She wrote, she wrote, she said,I found myself dating a female
sex worker for a little while.
Namely, what in Europe we call ahigh-level escort.

(02:25):
Did I know she was a sex worker?
Absolutely not.
She never told me.
I found out myself a littlelater.
I can understand why she choseto hide that from me, but
something being understandabledoes not automatically make it
acceptable because she took thechoice away from me to decide if

(02:48):
I wanted to date a woman in thatindustry or if I did not.
She took that choice away fromme.
Y'all, I have to read that.
I had to read that line a fewtimes.
And every time it landsdifferently because whether it

(03:09):
is a secret career, a secretlife, a secret family, a secret
anything, that is exactly whatdeception does.
Um, it takes the choice awayfrom a person who deserves to
make it.
You understand what I'm saying?
So tonight we're talking aboutwhat happens to your mental
health when the person that yougave your heart to was never

(03:32):
fully honest about who theywere.
We are naming it.
We are sitting in it, and we aregoing to figure out together how
you heal from something you didnot even know what was happening
to you.
Well, all right, my beautifulpeople.
You are now watching Axe NaomiBridging the Gap Live.

(03:53):
I'm your girl the guy that isnow me Banks here.
And you know, we talk aboutlove, sex, relationship,
cultural differences, and somuch more by bridging the gap
between them all and teachingthe world on sex, love,
language, attitude, andspiritual, spiritual uplifting.
I got my boy Dogpound Mike Mikehere, and I am so very extra

(04:14):
excited tonight because we havesomeone very special joining us
for this entire month.
Dr.
Will Washington, he's a healthpsychologist owner of Washington
Wellness Institute, a man whohas dedicated his career to
helping people understand theconnection between love and
mental health.
Dr.
Will, Dr.
Will, welcome to Love Lost andReclaim.

(04:35):
It is so good to see you, mybrother, my brother, my still
friend, my still friend.
How's it going?

SPEAKER_01 (04:42):
It's it feels so good to be back.
And I love that we both got newbackgrounds.
I got a lighter background.
You got designs going on.
This upgrade is amazing.

SPEAKER_04 (04:51):
I know, I know, right?
I know, I know, right?
I know, right?
And I want to say right now, Iwant to say hey to the BTG crew.
This is our second year with theum with our love and mental
health um series here.
And I thank you for just comingback and celebrating with us
with this again.
I really, really do.

(05:11):
Give us a full give us a fullscreen, dog palm mic, mike.
Give us a full screen on this.
Yeah, full screen for both ofus.

SPEAKER_01 (05:18):
So good to be back with you.

SPEAKER_04 (05:20):
Yeah, it is.
It feels so good.
It feels so good.
Oh, they don't want us to begreat today, huh?
They don't want us to be great,but that's all right.

SPEAKER_01 (05:29):
Twice twice the team is great.

SPEAKER_04 (05:31):
Right.
There we go.
There we go.
There we go.
There we go.
But it's good, it's been aminute.
It's been a minute.
We're gonna have to catch upsoon.
It's been a minute.
You got a lot of good thingsgoing on, I see.

SPEAKER_01 (05:42):
Yeah, yes, it's it's really a lot of good things.
And I think what's even moreimportant is that it's all in
alignment to what we've bothbeen really just really putting
our work into.
Yeah, right.
So that's what makes it evenmore beautiful.
It's like, no, no, no, we'redoing the work that we've
earned.

SPEAKER_04 (05:59):
Definitely, definitely, definitely,
definitely, definitely,definitely, definitely.
You know, so what I was gonnado, I was going to take a break.
Um, but I'm gonna decide not totake a break.
Uh, I want to go ahead and getinto it.
So um, I know, did you did youhear some of the letter that I
was reading about um, it was alady, probably it was probably
like in August.
It was August, September thatshe wrote me the letter.

(06:20):
And um, and we kind ofcorresponded, went back and
forth for a few times.
And the first when I got theletter, it was long.
It was a long letter.
And I was like, wow, and it wasso funny because you, you know,
I had my my breast um um explantsurgery then, you know, during
that time I was feeling sometype of so it came right on
time, you know what I'm saying?
It kind of like confirmed a lotof things for me, like, okay,

(06:43):
Naomi, you you write in theright space, you're doing the
right thing.
All right, this is what you'resupposed to be doing.
And I remember writing that toher.
And so in the in the as she'swriting, and you know, we're
talking, going back and forth,and I was like, wow, this is I
said, I would love to use thisas an episode.
That's all I was saying, as anepisode.

(07:05):
And probably about a couple ofprobably about a month ago, I
was debating if we were reallygoing to do the mental health
series because I'm stillstruggling with my health.
And I didn't know if we werereally going to be able to come
back and do it the way that Iwanted to do it.

(07:26):
And I said, no, I I can't passthis up.
I know myself, um, just evenstruggling with getting back to
my old self health-wise, that'sa mental struggle, you know,
especially when you're on a, youknow, the go, go, go.
But I just knew that this story,that this letter that this woman
wrote, that it's so many thingsthat she had in there that

(07:48):
needed to be heard.
It was so many topics that it,you know, that we can get to
just writing that letter.
You know what I mean?
You know, so I wanted to reallyget deeper in that letter.
Hold on, Doc Palm Mike.
Could you go back for me?
Yeah, so much in that letterthat I wanted to go because I
got the letter on the on theWestern, and he's scrolling

(08:08):
straight through it for me.

SPEAKER_01 (08:10):
You hear me real fast.
We're gonna see you, Doc Pound,as well.
It's good to hear your voice.

SPEAKER_06 (08:15):
I'm trying to keep up.
I'm trying to keep up.

SPEAKER_04 (08:19):
Right.
So, you know, I just wanted tomake sure that um, you know,
sure I got my still friend withme that's really giving giving
us not only your point from aman point of view, but also
from, you know, uh um uh uhintellect and um a medical point
of view, you know, of it to makesure that we're we're leading.
I know last last year we had itfull packed.

(08:42):
I didn't have enough time to geteverybody full packed, but I
think we enough.
And then we got amazing guestson the on the last week.
Oh my god, that interview wasamazing.
I had the pre-recorded becausehe's on um he's on tour right
now, but that interview, DogPaul Mike Mike, wasn't it?
It was great, it was amazing.
You'll you'll hear it the lastyou hear it on the 28th.

(09:02):
It was amazing, it was amazing.
Um but yeah, yeah.
So I'm gonna read little bitsand pieces throughout the you
know, throughout the four weeks,like we did last year.
And um today is all about whenlove lies.
You know, when you go into arelationship and you know,
someone portrays to be someoneelse, and you don't know, so

(09:24):
they don't give you theopportunity to know who you are,
and before you know it, you'rewith someone that you know it
feels like a betrayal.

SPEAKER_03 (09:35):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (09:36):
Yeah, you know, it feels like a betrayal, you know,
and I and I'm glad what you yousaid the word portrayal because
that is a very it's a lot deeperthan just you know emotional
neglect or abuse or somethinglike a cognitive distortion,
right?

(09:57):
Betrayal is is something deeplyrooted in our developmental
understanding of what arelationship is.
So we're really gonna break thisdown and really talk about the
betrayal of our own hearts andour lives and what we mean to
other people.

SPEAKER_04 (10:10):
Yes, yes, yes.
So before you start to give usthe tech, the technical
disservice, I want to read alittle bit more.
I want to get deeper in thislevel.

SPEAKER_01 (10:18):
Yeah, let's break it down.

SPEAKER_04 (10:19):
Yeah, because I know that a lot of people that's
watching right now might evenrecognize a lot of the symptoms
that, you know, a lot of thethings that she says in this
letter, you know, um, and canrelate to it.
All right.
All right.
So she writes about the momentthat things really fell apart
for her.
And she says in the letter, shesays that at the end she left me

(10:40):
with no other choice but to butto break up with her due to her
display of um ever increasingabusive character traits towards
me, very similar to narcissisticabuse cycle, um, which I had
never experienced and thus knewlittle about looking back.
Um, I think it was bottled upfrustration of not being able to

(11:02):
be honest, plus the constantlying in the mental gymnastic of
having to keep up with all thefalse stories, while at the same
time having me demanding moretime and emotional um intimacy.
Healthy demands and unhealthypsych simply cannot cater to.

(11:23):
Healthy demands and unhealthypsych simply cannot cater to.
So I need y'all to sit with thatfor a second.
She was not asking for anythingunreasonable.
She wanted just more time, shewanted emotional intimacy.
You know, those are normalthings that we want in a
relationship, right?
But she was asking them fromsomeone who was just, you know,

(11:46):
structural, you know, that wasunable to do that.
And this is not just heartbreak,this is what you know, every
person, you know, we might thinksomebody, I hate to say it, you
know, make somebody think thatthey're kind of crazy, right?
And I hate to say that where weare right now, but because when
you keep asking somethingreasonable, but the other person

(12:08):
it's they're not able to give itto you.
And then you start to wonder,wait a minute, is something
wrong with me?
You know, is something wrongwith you if you are asking for
too much, if you are being tooneedy, or the whole time it's
never about you all the time.
So I wanted to ask you, Mike,Mike, first.

(12:29):
You know, from a man, you're aman sitting here from a man's
point of view, and you hear thisstory like this, what is your
gut reaction?
And have you ever been in asituation where someone was
hiding something major from you?

SPEAKER_06 (12:44):
Um, I've never really been in a situation where
somebody was hiding somethingmajor, but I do under, you know,
understand from the letter thatif someone asking you for
something that that you can'tgive them, it will, you know, it
will be a disruption in therelationship.
There will be some things thatwhy is this person giving?

(13:05):
But then on the other side,maybe the person who's supposed
to be, maybe they are giving itin their way.
So from that, from that pointthere, from that, it seems like
there's a communication block aswell.
You know, but if you take theneediness and and the wanted it
so bad where it started to matchwith you mentally and and and

(13:27):
you you know psychically, thenthat's a whole that's a whole
nother level.

SPEAKER_04 (13:32):
You know, for you, Dr.
Will, you know, coming from aclinical standpoint, what is
actually happening in the mindof someone who is living a
double life?
Um, is it always an intentionalor the can it become a more
pattern that cannot even theycannot even see anymore?

SPEAKER_01 (13:48):
Right.
And before we get started, Ijust want to acknowledge nothing
gets past Mike Mike because he'slike that didn't happen to me.
Nothing got past.
So I love that.
I want to acknowledge he's like,nothing gets past me.
I love that.

SPEAKER_06 (13:59):
So how did Dog Dog do it, Dr.
Will?

SPEAKER_01 (14:04):
So so I I want to acknowledge that we have to
first accept that we're givingour best shot.
And our best is not ourhealthiest.
And in psychology, we talk it,we talk about congruence a lot.
Where what I what I think, whatI feel, and what I know, right?

(14:26):
What I think, what I feel, andwhat I know have three separate
lives, right?
Who I'm told to be when I clockin, how I'm supposed to be at
home, and how I am with myhomeboys, are three different
types of language, intimacy,communication, behavior,
mannerisms, traits, and we haveto understand that there are

(14:49):
some core values that we do liveby.
And when it talks about being adouble life, we have to ask
ourselves, what is that otherlife trying to protect that
other person from?
What is this double life, whydid this double life need to
exist?
And what why did you need thisdouble life to be worthy enough

(15:10):
to be with this person?
Right?
That well, I want I want to letthem sit with that space first
because you didn't feel safeenough to show yourself.
So exactly.
So what were you coming in withthat made you uncertain about
yourself before you came intotheir life?
So that would be the firstdirection I would I would
approach.

SPEAKER_06 (15:32):
You know something that that was a great example,
Dr.
Will, because you know, I I Igot nine or five that's in a
situation where all men, youknow, and all day long when they
talking about their wives,talking about their homes,
talking about this, theycomplaining, you know, and you
know, sometimes people say,Well, when you get home, you
don't you don't talk none ofthat mess.

(15:53):
You know, but sometimes on thatis it's where your real life is,
you know, because when you go tothat nine to five, especially,
you know, in the workforce wherewith all men sitting around
talking and and you know, gossipjust just as much as women, if
not more, you know, which one isreally your real life?

(16:16):
Yes, you know, and somebody reallife is is is in that at that
job, yes, but then a lot ofpeople at a job is pretending,
and their real life is really athome.

SPEAKER_01 (16:26):
Yes, yes, and then the pandemic showed that too,
right?
When the pandemic happened,everybody left their jobs and
then they were stuck at home,and mental health went up
because they no longer had aplace where they could feel
authentic outside of outside oftheir family.
That was a real thing thathappened, right?

SPEAKER_04 (16:44):
But so so but this right here, but but this in this
particular um thing, and sheeven said it in and I know I was
gonna say this down the line.
She even said in in thisinstance is that she could
understand why she didn't tellher about her being a sex
worker, you know, of um of nottelling her at all, you know,

(17:06):
not telling her in thebeginning.
She she had to find out on herown, you know, on her own.
And I hear what you said isthat, you know, why, you know,
the question is, is why do shefeel like that she has to hide
that from that person?
You know, what is the reasonhow?
And so I want to ask you thisfrom a clinical lens on

(17:27):
deception in the relationship,because that's what that is.
What does um what doespsychologically tell us about
why people hide their majortruths from partners?
And what does that concealmentdo that deceive that person
mental health over time?

SPEAKER_01 (17:44):
Yeah, and that and this is, you know, and this is
gonna sound maybe obtuse, but Imight say, but you know, a sex
worker uh, you know, maskingtheir identity is no different
than how a clinical therapistmasks their identity.
My clients don't know about myfamily, my wife, my kids, my my
my lifestyle.
They don't know anything aboutthat.

(18:05):
And you don't know how longyou're gonna meet them, you
don't know how long the theintimacy may last, it might not
last.
It's they haven't earned theright to be in that space.
And so they're in a professionthat literally is about
concealment.
And so it's important to knowthat you can't be as open in
this community with that becauseof the taboo nature.

(18:27):
And so there is a liability thatthat that that that worker is
going through.
And let's say if you meet thatperson and you're one week in
and you say everything too soon,and they didn't have they didn't
have the the willingness to havethat investment, you wasted your
time exposing yourself, right?
And so there is a way to todevelop a healthy relationship

(18:49):
without actually disposingeverything, right?
I don't tell everything thathappened to me on the first
date.
So why would I expect them?
And so what it sounds like isthere's a stereotype and a
stigma happening against thefact that their profession may
not be seen as somethingacceptable to them, which is why
the worker in the first placewould not expose their identity,

(19:10):
right?
Yeah, it comes back to thestigma of it all, and that is
and that's something thatcreates a lot of anxiety, that
creates a lot of um disruptionin the mental process because
you think about the attachment.
The attachment means I'm only asgood as what I do for you,
right?
It's not this isn't aboutconnection yet.
This isn't about intimacy, thisis about the value and the

(19:32):
fragility of attachments.

SPEAKER_04 (19:35):
You know, so let me say this.
Um, because when I read theletter, and I had to sit and
think about it, um, even when Iresponded to her, you know, with
it.
And I I believe um that theydated for a few years.
I don't think it was months.

SPEAKER_01 (19:49):
I think it was for a few years.
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (19:51):
Yeah, I think it was for a few years.
So I don't, it wasn't for nomonths, it was for a few years
that she did not know.
Um, and so in that turn, thatgives you an ample amount of
time.

SPEAKER_01 (20:01):
That changes that changes things, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (20:03):
You know, to let that person know uh who you who
you are.
I can understand, you know, somefew weeks or even a few months
getting to know a person, youknow.
For me, being a uh a retired sexworker, you know, I'm I'll
forever be a sex worker for me.
Um, I've made it myresponsibility to when you know

(20:24):
someone meets me and I'm I'mgoing to be in a relationship
with them, that I I I let themknow, you know, because my face
is no.
There's no kid.

SPEAKER_01 (20:39):
And and that's and that and and let's be and let's
be honest here, after that, youknow, after a month, right?
As adults, we we're gonna talkabout what you do.
Yeah, right?
You're we're gonna talk aboutthat, you know, because because
you know, if you work a nine tofive, you're gonna talk about
what you do.
That's a lot of time in the day.
And so I'm wondering what therelationship dynamic was where

(21:00):
that person did not feel safeenough to say what it is, right?
What was it, what was it forthem?
What type of dynamic was itwhere they weren't ready?
And also maybe they felt likeonce they exposed it, they knew
that they would have to leavetheir profession and have to
change their profession becausethe person would want them to
change.
So then it makes me think, well,what shame do you have over your

(21:24):
work so much that you can't behonest?
Right?
If this is something you'rekeeping and you're living with,
where where where do you findyour balance in that, right?
At some point you have to own upto who you've always been.

unknown (21:38):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (21:38):
At some point.

SPEAKER_04 (21:39):
Yeah, but you know, it's pretty hard.
And you know, it's pretty hardwhen being in this line of field
sex worker, whether you are anescort, a porn star, uh, a cam
girl, a dancer, or stripper,anyone, anything that has to do
with anything of this sort, um,is it's hard because the World

(22:00):
would shame you weakened.
You know what I'm saying?
And so that's that's a um amental struggle, gymnastic with
that.
If I can tell you how manyanonymous um messages um versus
email and on Instagram that Iget from people that are are in
the industry, I don't knowexactly who they are.

(22:22):
Ask me how strong that, youknow, ask me how are you so
strong to share your stories andbe, you know, just out here,
just letting people know andstaying like that as you are.
And one thing is that because Ido have an amazing family,
amazing support group, the new,but the thing is I know who I
am.
You know, what I did is a job,is a career.

(22:44):
That is not who, you know, thatis not all of me.
You know, I am a sexual being aswe all are.
We all are a sexual being.
And me being a sexual being isnot shameful.
Does that make sense?
I think once people understandthat is that that is a part of
their being in um them having towork and be a sex worker in

(23:06):
doing that.
That is what they did to live.
That is a part of theirsurvival.
And then once they can getthrough that, but it takes um
man, it takes a lot ofself-love.
And people say, Naomi, you youyou throw that self-love out
there like like it's nothing.
No, I don't.

(23:27):
I don't just throw it out therebecause it's a lot of work to
get to that point to be able tosay that.
Um, a lot of heal to do.

SPEAKER_01 (23:35):
Um the work that you did is why the but the work that
you've done, you know, and andand I and I'm I'm not trying to
call it out, but like you'reyou're on the level of like NBA
champion, right?
And and of stuff, so like notonly you've done the work, you
did the practice, you did thefree throws, you did the extra
time in the gym, you did all thework, and you owned yourself in

(23:56):
a way that most sex workerstoday aren't on that level
because the game has changed ina way that is so much more
exposed.
So they have to keep it adifferent level.
And so the way that you had toown yourself is on a different,
a different level of grit.
Um, and it's it wasn't supportedthe way that it is today.
It is not exposed the way it istoday.
And I think your wisdom in thatis not just only valuable, but

(24:19):
it's uh it's applicable, right?
Yeah, you know, I think that'simportant.

SPEAKER_04 (24:24):
Yeah, thank you.
You know, thank you for that.
You know, even you know, evenyou know, corresponding and
going um back and forth withthis amazing um woman that wrote
this letter in, you know, andum, you know, and she shared a
lot with me just about the wholething, and that she really did
was in love with this woman.
I think if the woman would havebeen, you know, honest with her
from the beginning and shedidn't find out the way that she

(24:45):
found out, you know, um it couldhave worked.
It was it was the lie and abetrayal that's in between that
that caused the yeah, and and Isay lying is lying is a form of
influence.

SPEAKER_01 (25:00):
So I I tell I tell people, you know, telling the
truth and telling a lie are allthe same to me, right?
I they're all forms ofinfluence.
I'm lying to keep you, I'mtelling you the truth so you can
you can trust me, right?
And so all both are forms ofinfluence to benefit yourself.
And so my my question for themwas, you know, how did it

(25:22):
benefit you by lying?
What were you what were yougetting from it that you felt
like you wouldn't have gotten bydoing that?
Right.
I want I wanted to approach itwith empathy because there was
there was there was a distress,an internal distress that made
them feel like that was that wasa survival tactic.

SPEAKER_04 (25:38):
Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_01 (25:39):
That was a survival tactic.

SPEAKER_04 (25:40):
Yeah, it is.
There is a saying that said umabout don't take when a person
lies to you, don't take itpersonal because they don't want
they do not want to see theirimperfection.
That they're not perfect, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (25:57):
It it's it and it's it's kind of like manhood where
it's like it's easy to keep,hard to lose.
Yeah, hard, hard, hard to lose,yeah, yeah, easy to keep, hard,
like easy to lose.
Because the truth is the momentyou go outside of something,
you're now chastised, you're nowvillainized, you're now put in
this position when it was reallyjust you not being emotionally

(26:18):
able to handle what you'refeeling.
And a lot of us don't get thatchance to really express what
we're actually authenticallyfeeling.
We don't get that, we don't getto really do that.

SPEAKER_04 (26:30):
Yeah.
So so let me ask you this.
So when someone takes away thatfrom you, when they take away um
that it's not just a heartbreakwhen they do that, when they
take away that truth away fromyou.
Is there actually a name forthat when it happens like that?
When you know, when your realitygets written like that, is there
actually a name for that?
Can you define that?
That is, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (26:52):
So we call that an actualization.
So the real so there's arealization and there's an
actualization, right?
Okay, and so the actualizationis is actually applying the
potential that was missed orthat was not considered.
And a lot of times in in thesespaces, when you are like

(27:13):
brought into this and you'reunaware, you're coming to the
epiphany, right?
You're having this epiphany, andthen you're realizing, like, oh
my gosh, this wasn't what I wasliving, this wasn't the frame I
was living.
And then you start having anactualization of what actually
is available to you, and you'rerecognizing your own humanity,
and you're actually having todeal with your ego.

(27:35):
And a lot of times for us, Itell people all the time that
ego is kind of like the puppy.
If you don't pet the puppy, thepuppy, what does it do?
It pisses on the floor, startsbiting on things, bites your
slipper, right?
It just does everything, and soyou have to continue to pet this
puppy.
And people think, oh, it's a badego.
Like, no, no.
You have you have an unnurturedego, and then you have to start

(27:59):
over again.
And the start over is a it canbe sometimes very humiliating
and embarrassing because we youfeel like, well, I'm I'm 42
years old, I should be likethis, but you might have the
emotions of a 15-year-oldbecause you never took that time
to really nurture that ego,right?
Right.
So that that's so theactualization is having to
actually do the work of what hasbeen missing.

SPEAKER_04 (28:22):
I like that.
You know, also this is also whatI want to because I don't know
if the audience actually heardwhat I um heard me say with the
the the young lady said in theletter.
When she said that she didunderstand about the woman
hiding it, right?
And that it was actually thatum, and that's actually a very
involved place to be, to holdcompassion for someone, you

(28:46):
know, in that space, especiallyif they, you know, being harmed.
But she is also very clear aboutthat understanding that it does
not make it acceptable, eventhough she, you know, I
understand that it still doesn'tmake it acceptable because this
is where so many of us that weget stuck in that loop.
Well, I understand why they didit, and we use use that

(29:08):
understanding as a reason tominimize our own pain.

SPEAKER_03 (29:11):
Yeah, we do that.

SPEAKER_04 (29:12):
So, understanding why someone hurt us, does that
mean that you have to acceptthat that what that that was
okay?
Both things can be true at thesame time.
So, this is what I want to askyou, Dogma.
Do you think that men draw thatline differently?
More of a tendency to either umcompletely cut it off or

(29:32):
completely excuse of a or beless in the middle?

SPEAKER_06 (29:38):
Well, most men that I know, they'll immediately cut
it off or they'll just excuseit.
You know, men have this thingwhere they can go on and act
like nothing ever happened.
Like it doesn't even exist.

SPEAKER_04 (29:56):
What's that?
What is that?

SPEAKER_06 (29:59):
That's a man shit.
That's exactly what it is, youknow.
And and the bad thing about thatis it may manifest itself in
some other ways.
Either at that moment or downthe line, you know, but just

(30:20):
acting like it never happened,get up, go to work, get up and
do everything, everything thesame way.
And for some men, they are likethat.
That it doesn't happen, it's outof their head, out of their
mind, and and life goes on, youknow?
And that can be a result ofsomething that happened in their
life earlier in their liveswhere they feel like, okay, I

(30:44):
deserve that shit.
So let me excuse it and let memove on.

SPEAKER_01 (30:49):
Yeah, well, they say we even now under their breath,
even though they never saidtheir part.

SPEAKER_06 (30:54):
Right.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 (30:56):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 (30:57):
Yeah, yeah, I hear this ladies.

SPEAKER_01 (31:02):
And take note, take note.

SPEAKER_06 (31:05):
Hey, hey, Dr.
Will, get the clinical meetingto make it look good.
Clean it up for me.

SPEAKER_01 (31:10):
I got you.
Look, I got you.
Tap in, tap in.
So, so the rule here is thesecond principle of my reset
modality.
It's um any unmet need resultsin irrational behavior.
So, a lot of times we willrepress our memories, the
moments that are happening, andthen they come out as irrational

(31:31):
behaviors.
You might become moreemotionally distant, you might
like a couple more posts thannormal, you might follow the
insta batty, you might end upplaying at the going to the gym
a little longer, you might behanging out more with your
single friends than your marriedfriends.
You might end up creating moreissues in your life than
actually dealing with the lifethat's at home, right?

(31:53):
And so, what you do is youexternalize your life rather
than dealing with theinternalized burden that's
actually being present.

SPEAKER_04 (32:03):
Yeah, that that that sounds about right.

SPEAKER_06 (32:07):
That sounds a little better than dog dog.

SPEAKER_04 (32:09):
No, no, no, but it it sounds on the same thing, but
it does.
It that sounds about right.
It it really does.

SPEAKER_01 (32:14):
Yeah, it's usually you and usually when I deal with
infidelity with my clients, whenI deal with infidelity with my
clients, the first thing I askis, you know, I I asked a simple
question, you know, we have Iasked them and they and they
don't like this, but I said, didyou feel better after?

(32:37):
Yes or no?

SPEAKER_03 (32:39):
No, right?

SPEAKER_01 (32:41):
And they hate that because they want to say a lot
more.
Yeah, but they've been livinginternally in my mind mine,
yours, yours, yours, yours,yours, me, me, me, me, me, you,
you, you, you, you.
So then they have to openlyexpress what's happening on the
inside.

SPEAKER_02 (32:58):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (32:59):
So that's always the one the first questions.
They don't think I don't have toworry about good, bad, right, or
wrong.
I'm like, did did you feelbetter or not?

unknown (33:06):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (33:06):
Yes or no?
Why?

SPEAKER_04 (33:09):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, why?
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 (33:12):
Because we learned that cheating is not the
problem, it's the symptom.

SPEAKER_04 (33:16):
There you go.
There you go.
All right, so here's one for theaudience.
So, audience, have you ever beenin a relationship where you
later found out that there's amajor secret that's being kept
from you?
And how did you feel when youfound out?
So I see all of y'all, I seesome of y'all in there talking.
I want to say, hey, hey, hey, Iwant y'all to drop it in the
chats now.

(33:37):
Here goes the question again.
Have you ever been in arelationship where you later
found out that there was a majorsecret that's being kept from
you?
How did you feel about it whenyou found out?
I want you to drop it in thechat right now.
I see we live on severalstreaming on several different
from Facebook to YouTube toInstagram and to X.

(33:58):
So y'all go ahead and drop it ondown there.
We see y'all.
We see every single one ofy'all.
We see every single one ofy'all.
All right.
All right.
So now I want to go to the partof the letter, to this letter
that, you know, it gave me alittle chills the first time I

(34:19):
read it because this is aboutsomething that we do not talk
about enough.
And that is the intelligence ofthe body.
You know, I talk about this alot over there at the season of
self-love.
Um, this is the way that we knowwhen things, things before their
conscious mind.
This is ready to accept things.

(34:39):
Our body tells us things first,right?
Right?
Right?
And so in her letter, she says,she says, I have always been
very intuitive and spirituallyconnected person.
A few weeks before breaking up,we were on the sofa one night
and I started feeling somewhateerie, like something was off.

(35:00):
And I said to her, I do not knowwho you really are, but I will.
She had a half-smile and sheleaned in to kiss me as if to
divert attention from thesubject.
A few days prior, I had anightmare where I was trapped in
a secluded house in the woodswith her.
And whenever I wanted to leave,she would already be standing in

(35:23):
the doorway, not letting me out.
That eerie feeling I had in thedream, in the one on the sofa,
was the exact same.
So, y'all see, she dreamed itbefore she even knew it.
Her body was already processingthe truth that her heart was not
ready to accept.
And I want to ask this to myaudience: how many have you have

(35:44):
felt something like that?
That eerie feeling, you knowwhat I'm saying?
That quiet knowing, thatintuition, that dream that you
felt a little too real, and thenlater everything clicked like
you know what I mean?
We call that instinct, we callthat intuition.
You know, spiritually, we mightcall it discernment, but

(36:05):
whatever you call it is real,and most of us will learn to
override it in a moment when wefeel for someone, right?

SPEAKER_01 (36:14):
Right, yeah, that's that that's a hard one.
That's a hard one because peopledon't think about how energy is
such a spiritual bond, right?
It's a rhythm, right?
There's a rhythm, everyrelationship has its own rhythm,
right?
And the moment you step outside,depending on how connected you
are with yourself, right?

(36:34):
When you are connected withyourself, you can feel when
someone's off without evensaying a word.
And we're always taught toignore it or taught that it's
too much, or you're gaslit intothinking, oh, you're just being
anxious today, or you're likeright.
And so it's it's one of thosethings where when when do you
when do you get to trust whatyou've always been?

(36:56):
Right?
We've been taught to unlearnourselves, yes.
That's a real thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (37:02):
That is that it that's such a real thing.
You know, over the well, youknow, because you've been over
there with me over there at theseason of sublaw.
That's one thing that we teachover there is to learn your
body, learn what that is, torelearn yourself, you know,
because we when we come out ofbirth, we know who we are, but
we've been taught differentthings from from the time we

(37:23):
were born, the time we come out.
We've learned different thingsfrom our environment, from our
parents, from things that sortof to where we start to question
ourselves.
Now we're relearning ourselvesall over again to how we feel or
how we're supposed to feel, andstart to trust our inner
knowing.
That's the thing.
Trust our inner knowing, and ourinner knowing, it tells us, it

(37:45):
lets us know.
It lets us know.
So let me ask you this, Dr.
Mike Mike.
All right, do men experiencethat same gut knowing?
You know how they say womenalways have that intuition.
They always say women know.
And do, and and if they do, arethey in spaces where they can
even talk about it or admit it?

SPEAKER_06 (38:06):
I'm gonna answer that very simple, and I'm gonna
go into this.
Do they expect yes they do?
Okay, they experience the samegut.
And are they in spaces with it?
No, they're not.
And that's the thing is meninternalize, they keep things to
themselves.

(38:27):
And as Dr.
Will talking about before, theyand and for some men it don't
build up.
For some men, doctor, it doesn'tbuild up.
It doesn't utilize, you know,they can go through it day by
day by day.
And a lot of time, like I saidbefore, it has to do a lot, a
lot of the way they grew up intheir life.

(38:49):
And then and I'm speaking, whenI speak for men, I'm probably
speaking for a lot of older men,you know, men 45 and above, you
know, who have lived lived longlives and and and been through
some things and seen some thingsand may have done some things
and they're still walkingaround.
I think they can deal withthings a lot more.

(39:10):
Keeping it inside.
Not saying it's good, not sayingit's healthy, not saying it's
the best thing to do, but theygo through it and do it.
You know, so there aren't a lotof spaces where they can sit
down and talk about it.
You know, and I know tell youstraight up, Dr.
Will, and you probably know thisbetter than anybody for older

(39:32):
men, especially older black men,therapists don't even come up
into their head.

SPEAKER_01 (39:39):
I have some older some older older older brothers,
and uh, and like I have one Ihave one client that's that's 68
years old, still havingrelationship issues, and what I
think a lot of men suffer fromis not having the language of
shame.
Yeah.
A lot a lot of men are sufferingwith shame.

(40:01):
Um and and what it is is thatthey are afraid to have the
conversation where they're goingto have to expose the things
that they are not becausethey've been been programmed and
and been conditioned to beeverything or else, to produce
or else, to provide or else, tobe the product or else.

(40:22):
Right?
There's no space before I feellike you're cheating on me.
Oh, you're insecure, weak man.
Yeah, right.
I what I need is a reassurance.
Yeah, I don't need I don't needshame, any reassurance.
Yeah, a lot of men never grew upwith the space for for for shame

(40:43):
to have a language, yeah.
Right.
So that happens a lot.

SPEAKER_04 (40:47):
Yeah, you know, I totally agree with you.
I think when I when I um cameinto the field of life coaching,
I really thought that uh most ofmy clients will be women.
No, most of my clients are men.
And when I say that I was verysurprised on how open they were,

(41:08):
they were so open.

SPEAKER_01 (41:10):
Yes, they were so open.
But see, and that's the thing.
A lot, I'm not trying to befunny, I'm not trying to sound
so so generalization, but yeah,a lot of men do not trust women.

SPEAKER_03 (41:22):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (41:23):
And and and it's not because they don't want to, it's
because women have neverapproached them in a way that
said, I'm gonna listen and I'mstill gonna be here.

SPEAKER_04 (41:35):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (41:36):
Right.
That's not been a that's neverbeen a conversation.
I always get I always get singlemothers.
I get a lot of single mothersfor us clients.
Like, and they say, I've neverhad a man actually sit and sit
to understand me and see me.
So many women are always in thedark and never actually feeling

(41:56):
seen, but told to be everythingaround, right?
Yeah, it's a real thing.

SPEAKER_04 (42:02):
Yeah, yeah.
You know, and then I I heard youum um Dr.
Pal Mike Mike when you said, youknow, the one thing is that what
I do see now than when it didback in the day is that there
are a lot of men, and I want towanna say this, there are a lot
of men that are um they'restepping up more to get more
help and more assistance withtheir mental health.

(42:24):
They are more open about it thanever.
And I love that.
I love that they're being veryvocal and they kind of making it
more cool.
And I know that's kind of messedup for me to say that, but they
is making it more cool to like,you know, come on, we need to do
this.
Let's get on this mental healthtrip because it's not only about

(42:44):
us, it's about our family, it'sabout our children, it's about
our legacy, you know, at the endof the day, because when we
think about that, it doestrickle down.
It does trickle down.
The mental it starts at thehome, it starts at the
foundation.
And if we don't do anything nowabout it, then this man, when so

(43:06):
let me tell you, Dr.
Will, and I hate to go this fromthe interview that we had with
um Sam Ridley, comedian SamRidley.
When I tell you, as this man wastalking, I had envisions on what
all we can do together.
And I'm not talking about likethat.
I'm I'm just talking about likeI seen, I seen some things

(43:27):
happening.
I'm like, oh yeah, okay, Dr.
Will.
All right, you ready to hear?
Like, okay, oh yeah, Dr.
Will.
All right, I see it now.
That's why ain't happening thisyear.
That's why it happened thisyear.
So I like I seen it, and I toldum Dr.
Mike, my, I said, Did you seethat?
He said, Nah, but I know youdid, so we all good.
But just to hear him, it wasjust like I was just aligning

(43:50):
everything in the right placesat the right time.
And with Sam, I've known Sam foryears.
I met him, and I'm about to givea little piece of this from the
The interview, but I met himyears ago.
Um, during AVM weekend, he wasdoing uh a comedy show off
strip, one of a uh a mutualfriends of ours, and I went to

(44:11):
his show, and that's when I methim at him.
Um, he was real cool, real,really cool guy.
And then from there, we justkept in touch.
And he, you know, was didanother um my other show,
Chocolate Radio, came on androcked that for me.
And and we just we kept intouch, and then we lost touch,
and then he been into stuff, andthen just the conversation that

(44:32):
we had that interview.
When I said we were what twohours?
It was a two-hour interview, sowe're gonna break it all down,
you know, on on the on um thefourth um Thursday of the month.
But it was so amazing.
So when you listen to it, andbecause we're gonna listen to it
and break it down, it's just allin so much timing and it's right

(44:52):
on time.
And you know, you my thing isalways for everybody of healing,
but it's like I knew like I knewme being in the space that I was
in in the adult industry, beingin that in that realm.
But I've always been in therealm of helping from working in
DCFS to working with teenparents.

(45:12):
So I've always been in thatrealm of helping people, and now
I'm being here doing this, youknow what I'm saying?
It's just like you know, like adomino effect.
Let's let's go, let's moveforward, you know, to do it.
And it's like it's this is here,this is here, this is now, this
is where we should be, likeright here.

(45:34):
When we talk about mentalhealth, when we talk about just
being um, what do you call it?
I got brain fog right now.
When you call it when the thethe the steps and the pebbles
and the the alignment, excuseme, there you go.
Alignment is right there.

SPEAKER_01 (45:52):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (45:53):
It's right there.

SPEAKER_01 (45:56):
I'm curious, I'm just curious, do you feel like
do you feel like people aremissing the value of openness,
or do you think they're missingthe value of vulnerability?

SPEAKER_04 (46:09):
I think it's a combination of both.
And I think when you say thecombination of both, it's the um
of authenticity.
Yeah.
Because this is the thing, whatI've learned with me being
vulnerable, with me being real,me telling my story, me being

(46:31):
authentic.
And I had I get a lot of peoplethat send me pictures of myself
now with all kinds of stuff totry to remind me or where what I
did.
And I like, I know I did that.
You you know, and I don't knowwhat I mean, I know what it's
for, but I'm like, but why?

(46:53):
But this is like to I um stop mefrom doing what I'm doing, and I
don't and I don't know what I'mdoing to harm anyone.
I'm telling my story because Iknow that someone's out there
that can relate to my story.
I'm not just a porn star, youknow, I'm not just somebody who
has sex, it's so much more thanthat.

(47:16):
You know, I've been married,I've been divorced, I have
children.
I've had several differentcareers, you know.
I I have so much more than thanthat, you know.
And when you start looking atpeople multidimensional instead
of one dimension, instead of onedimension, that is what we're

(47:39):
supposed to look at people inmore than one dimension and stop
looking at it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (47:44):
Wait, so so I so I will say this I believe that a
lot of people are lacking theauthenticity, right, for the
relationship that they need.
Yeah, is because they'reunwilling to accept the
different degrees of their owndepth.

SPEAKER_04 (48:00):
There you go.

SPEAKER_01 (48:01):
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (48:02):
There it is.

SPEAKER_01 (48:03):
Yeah, because they're afraid to go deep to
find out who they are, and thenhow then why and then and then
you end up well, why are youallowing your job as a sex
worker to mean more than thisrelationship this person wants
to have with you?
When did this moment become moreimportant than who you are?
Yeah, right.
I tell people all the time, yes,yes, I'm a licensed therapist,
yes, I'm a health psychologist,but I'm telling you, those are

(48:27):
things I do, but I'm really Ireally just consider myself a
healer.
I'm really just a healer, but Iuse those things as tools to
help navigate to largercommunities.
That's all.

SPEAKER_04 (48:37):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (48:38):
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (48:39):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 (48:40):
Wow, that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 (48:41):
Exactly, exactly, exactly.
You know, thank you.
Oh, so let me because we we justwent, we just went all off the
spill, didn't we?

SPEAKER_01 (48:50):
Yeah, that was so sad.

SPEAKER_06 (48:54):
You back.
We gotta come back.

SPEAKER_01 (48:58):
That brings me back in.

SPEAKER_04 (49:05):
So we were talking about the body when the body
tells us something like that.
So from a scientific standpoint,Dr.
Will, what is actually happeningum in our body when we sense
that something is wrong beforewe prove it?
Um, is the intuition is real orare we just um pattern matching?

SPEAKER_01 (49:25):
Yes.
Oh, I love this question becausewe get to talk about the nervous
system, right?
We when we're doing when we'redoing psychology, when we're
doing body work, we're doingmental health, when we're doing
all these types of work, we'refocusing on how does our nervous
system relate to oursurroundings and our
relationships.

(49:45):
And when you are living yourlife, you're just you know, I
always say you have you have youhave six different minds, right?
You have your eyes, your taste,your words, your ears, your
skin, right?
All these different senses thatare trying to tell you what is
good, bad, safe, and harmful,right?
And so your nervous system islike, I don't know what what's

(50:09):
it gonna do, right?
And so when you create thisuncertainty in somebody's life,
their nervous system isliterally saying, Oh, I remember
this feeling.
You felt this way when you werethree, you don't want that
again, and you might be 36 yearsold, and your body, and so and
so your body's like, well,you're not the same
three-year-old, so maybe thistime what you do is you bump
your glasses every time you feeluncomfortable now.

(50:30):
But when you were three, youused to rub your head, but now
you got glasses now, right?
So your body is literally tryingto learn how to navigate old
behaviors and old synapses intonew developments, and it doesn't
always work out, yeah.
And so a lot of times when I'mworking with people, I try to

(50:52):
understand that their nervoussystem hasn't thought like this
before.
A lot of times your nervoussystem chases familiarity when
you are in trauma, your traumachases the familiarity of
things, it chases theconvenience, not the quality of
life.
And so you have to learn thatyour survivorship becomes more
important than yourrelationship.

SPEAKER_04 (51:12):
Oh, I like your survival ship.
Mm-hmm.
I like that.
I like when you said that yoursurvival ship, you know, so so
tell them about somatic.

SPEAKER_01 (51:23):
Yes, body, yes, yes.
So, what I love about the bodyis that your body has learned
things that you didn't know youwere learning, right?
Why I love yogi so much isbecause you're learning how to
teach your body to trust again.
Yeah, you're teaching your bodyto live in the vulnerability of

(51:44):
your life, you are posturingyourself into a space of
vulnerability that only yourbody can manage.
People say, Well, I'm notflexible, I'm not flexible.
Well, your body learned not tobe flexible because of the way
you were surviving, right?
Right?
When we do certain poses,especially like um the frog

(52:05):
pose, right?
There's a moment where somepeople start crying because
their hips are opening up andyou may have had damage done to
your body or the way that youwere held, or the way that you
may have been touched.
Your body says that this isunsafe.
Your body thinks you're back inthat stressful moment.
Yeah, and you have to learn howto trust yourself.
And what do we say wheneveryou're in these poses?

(52:26):
Breathe.

SPEAKER_03 (52:26):
Breathe.
Breathe.

SPEAKER_01 (52:29):
Because your body doesn't know how to sit in
discomfort.
It doesn't know how to sit indistress, it doesn't know that,
like, why are you watching amovie and you're starting to get
a panic attack?

SPEAKER_04 (52:40):
Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_01 (52:42):
At these moments, your body's going through these
loops, these negative feedbackloops, that are literally trying
to say, you need to survive, youneed to get out, you need to be
you, this is not good for you.
And you have to genuinely askyourself, is this really what's
happening to me?
Right?
And this is where thatdissociation starts happening,
right?
When your brain's like, hey,this is way too much, we out,

(53:04):
and your body leaves.
And so when your mind is hereand your body leaves, and you're
like, Well, I'm I'm just tryingto get through things.

SPEAKER_05 (53:13):
Yes, right.

SPEAKER_01 (53:14):
It's important when I see my clients cry and they're
like, I'm sorry for crying.
I'm like, no, no, no.
These tears mean your your heartand your body is finally
catching up to your mind.
Your mind and your body arefinally seeing each other again.
You're literally reconnecting intime, right?
And I think we need to startreally recognizing that these
bodily reactions that we'rehaving is our body speaking to

(53:38):
us about what we need.
Hey, your body's asking you forsomething, right?
Your body's asking you forsomething.
Why are you not responding?
Or do you have shame over howyour body is actually responding
to it?
Kink and pleasure and all thesethings, intimacy.
We have these roles and thesepositions that allow us to

(54:00):
explore that in a safe andconsensual way.
And that's important to have alanguage for something our body
can't yet commit to.

SPEAKER_04 (54:09):
I love that.
Thank you.
Thank you for sharing that.
Thank you for sharing that.
You got anything to say?

SPEAKER_06 (54:14):
Um, no, I can't mess with that one.

SPEAKER_01 (54:20):
You're like, pass.

SPEAKER_04 (54:23):
All right, so this before I give deeper into her um
uh in her letter.
All right, and so she also saysthis in her letter, which she
writes about after the breakup.
So then she asked God, theuniverse, the higher self, she
said, Whatever name that yougive the governing energy, she
says, she asked for the truth tobe revealed.
So within days, she felt theimpulse to check the phone

(54:46):
numbers that she had saved.
So she googled it, and thenthere was the truth, everything
that she needed to finallyunderstand what happened.
So when you ask for the truthwith your whole heart and you
are genuinely ready to receiveit, life tends to cooperate.

SPEAKER_01 (55:08):
Yeah, I I don't I don't mean to be this person,
but is the truth ever reallyenough?

SPEAKER_04 (55:20):
You you know what?
I can say that now, yeah, butback in the day, nope, not for
me.
I used to keep get digging, likemm-mm, because trying to find an
excuse.
But now, yeah.
But back in the day, no.

SPEAKER_01 (55:33):
What changed?

SPEAKER_04 (55:36):
Um what changed now?
What change?

SPEAKER_01 (55:39):
Yeah, what what what what transition is that?

SPEAKER_04 (55:41):
Yeah, wisdom.

SPEAKER_05 (55:46):
Wisdom.
Like I'm just tired of goingaround that circle.

SPEAKER_01 (55:57):
Not that black again.

SPEAKER_04 (55:58):
Like, I wanted to run that black again.
I already been around there.
Like, did you ain't learn thephrase two times?
Yeah, wisdom.
Like, okay, like you have tostop.
Yeah, from that it was like, doyou, yeah, wisdom.
Then after that, it was like,no, get off of that.
Let's come on, let's, let's,let's move on.
Yeah, yeah.
But it was it was more thanthat.
That that's a whole notherstory.

(56:18):
We can go on from a whole notherstory for that because what I've
learned through that, and it'sprobably another reason why I I
fell in love with myself andself-love because it wasn't all
about me.
It's always it was approval fromother people as well on why I
stayed with things for so long.

SPEAKER_01 (56:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (56:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (56:39):
I think sometimes when it comes to betrayal,
especially, you have to be hurthard hard enough until it's
time.
So when people give go back,like, why'd you go back?
Why'd you go back?
I'm like, they either weren'tsick of themselves enough or
they weren't their their theirthreshold of their pain
tolerance, yeah, was was a lothigher, unfortunately.

(57:00):
That's that's a lot of timesthat's the truth.

SPEAKER_04 (57:03):
Yeah.
And you know, and also I want toadd this later on, especially if
you if you were in a householdwhere you see tolerance, if you
see tolerance in marriages or inrelationships that have been
through hell and back and yousaw that state, you're like,
okay, but this ain't nothingcompared to what I've seen or
what I've lived through or whatI've witnessed.
You know, this ain't nothing.

(57:23):
So you stay in shit, excuse me,you stay in stuff longer.
You know what I'm saying?
Because you say, I can if theygot through that, you know, I
can do this.
And I know there's a lot ofpeople that's listening and
watching right now has done thatvery thing, you know, and then
sometimes a lot of times, andyou know, we can all say that
we're guilty of this.
We always felt in the beginning,oh, we can change them.

(57:46):
We go in thinking that we canchange that person to change
that situation.
But as you get older and you getwiser, you know, no, I can't.
I can't change anyone.
The only person that I canchange is myself.

SPEAKER_01 (57:58):
And oh, I love that because we don't we don't talk
about what the tolerance of painis.
And so when I work with withwomen trying to get back into
like their soft mode, the firstthing I do is I do a pain
thermometer.
And I go, like, what's the topnumber 10 pain?
What's the number one painthat's like nothing, no pain at

(58:19):
all?
And I have them fill it in.
And I go, now what pain are wedealing with today in our
session?
They it's hard because you don'trealize that you have you have
become emotionally calloused.
You have become emotionallycalloused.

SPEAKER_04 (58:36):
I know quite a few of them.
Like, I'm so serious.
When I hear, what I hear in myears, I'm like, oh, oh my God,
like like was like I I wouldnever love again.
Like I would never love again.
Like never love again.
If it ain't God, I'm not neverloving other things.

SPEAKER_01 (58:58):
If ain't God, I ain't got it.
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (59:00):
Right.
Like period from both men andwomen.
And it's like, wow.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (59:10):
You know, I have a saying, and I think I just made
the saying up, but sometimesyour pleasures of the future
will always overtake your painsof the past.
So if you live in a good lifenow, and it's good, and you and
you see it and you know it, andyou feel it's good, you feel

(59:31):
it's everything that that youwant, that overtakes a lot of
the pain of the memories of thepast away.
And sometimes in that presentmoment, I think that's when you
may even let some things go.
Maybe that's when you even letsome things pass, because no
matter what it is right now, Iam I'm in a good place, a good
space, feeling good.

(59:52):
So I can even overlook thosethings because I never want to
go back to the pain it wasbefore.

SPEAKER_01 (59:58):
Right.
Yes, yes.
Wow, that that's powerful.
Yeah, that that that's verypowerful.
And and I think the the thequestion, what are we doing?
Yeah, right.
I I think that question, I thinkthat question is a little more
when I hear that phrase, that'sway more than we need to talk.
Like I'm I'm kind of over the weare we need to talk thing.
I'm I'm like, okay, we can talkwhatever you want to talk about,

(01:00:20):
but the what are we doing?
Mm-hmm.
That's that that that questionthat that's I think that's way
more valuable.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:30):
Um and I yeah, I appreciate that, Mike Mike.
That's that that that's a greatone.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:36):
Yeah, that's a song.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:40):
Right.

SPEAKER_06 (01:00:40):
Like if I turn on the show in in the morning and
hear my song play.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:47):
I want to want all the royalties.
I want every royalty.

SPEAKER_06 (01:00:52):
You know, I see it overnight, she'll be working on
it.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:01):
Oh, that's weird.

SPEAKER_06 (01:01:04):
That was that was that was y'all heard that.
Yeah, y'all heard what I said,right?
Right, right.
Witnesses out here, right?
Katie.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:11):
Time mark one hour and 16 minutes.

SPEAKER_06 (01:01:13):
I don't even remember.
Nope.
I can't remember.
I know you're gonna pay back theshow tonight, right?

SPEAKER_05 (01:01:18):
I should have listened right on his
transcript.

SPEAKER_04 (01:01:25):
All right, so Doc Frau Mike, let me ask you a
question.
Do you think what do you thinkabout the spiritual side of
finding closure?
You know, um, she did not waitfor the truth, she went looking
for it for herself.

SPEAKER_06 (01:01:38):
You know, that that is that's the hard one.
Um, and that goes back to justwhat I was talking about.
Yeah, is you know, when you goback looking for things, right?
Sometimes you find a whole lotof things that you you wasn't
looking for at all.
Right, right.
And that just may add more painand more, you know, more things
to exactly what it was, insteadof just sitting back waiting for

(01:02:00):
the truth.
Because my thing, this wholeletter too, even at the
beginning, when you said it itwas some it was some years that
it taking place, that's a longtime.
Because in those years, you youyou built up a love and a trust
for this person.
And even though sometimes, and Imean, you said she was a sex
worker, I didn't know what whatkind of sex industry she was in,

(01:02:24):
but sometimes I know you mighthave been sitting at home alone,
wondering which yet, what'sgoing on?
And you may have hit thesethoughts in your head, but if
you wait that much time beforeyou go looking, before you hear
the truth, then you have builtup a lot of a lot of feelings
for that person, right?

(01:02:44):
Built up that many feelings,make it hurt more when you find
out what it is, but it alsomakes you love more too, right?
Because you waited so long,right?

SPEAKER_04 (01:02:54):
And I'm I'm not believed that that was where her
pain was, is just that, youknow, just knowing that you I I
said she was a uh a a hike uhclass um as well.
And so, you know, there youknow, over there in Europe,
that's legal, you know, theythat's legal over there, but um,

(01:03:15):
but for her not to know that,you know, um, and then finding
that out, that's that's a atotal different thing.
That's you, you know what Imean?
You know, I I I can feel bothsides.
I mean when I even told herthat, I can say I can I can
totally feel both sides of thiscoin of being a sex woman and

(01:03:36):
not telling you right away, youknow, telling you right away.
But then as our relationship,you know, got serious, then I
will have to tell you.
I will want to tell you, youknow, of who I am.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:51):
Yeah.
There's also about thattraditional aspect though, too,
though.
Like the traditional aspect forme is like until until we live
together, I don't, I don't know.
I I believe discretion,especially in that type of work,
discretion is everything, right?
Because what if what if you youaren't okay with it and then you
blow all my stuff up and youtell everybody about it?
Well, what if I haven't eventold my parents?

(01:04:12):
And now we met with you, you'remeeting my parents and all that,
and my parents don't know yet,then you're it's a power, it's a
power dynamic, it's a powercontrol.
Like, am I willing to release mydiscretion?
Because what if we don't workout and then you know everything
about me, and then we have thisrevenge, right?
Like that's a real thing thatmany do go through.

(01:04:34):
And and so it's it's really it'svery, very important like to
hold discretion.
And I think after three years,and you know you see me every
three years, we're pretty good,we're going pretty steady.
I would assume you trust meenough, but what in that
relationship you did things orsaid things that made me not

(01:04:54):
actually divulge that at thesame time.

SPEAKER_06 (01:04:58):
I got a quick question on that though, Dr.
Will.
Well, if so, if you this person,you are the sex worker, and
those are the thoughts thatgoing through your head.

SPEAKER_05 (01:05:07):
Why are you gonna be in a relationship?

SPEAKER_06 (01:05:09):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:10):
You know, because we're human, we love
relationships, we can't help it.
That's that's that's that's whowe are.

SPEAKER_06 (01:05:17):
You love something, you love something about the
relationship.
I don't say necessarily you lovethe reason you love something
about the relationship, butyeah, there's a benefit, right?

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:25):
There's a benefit, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, and that's and I andI hate to say it like that
because everybody has a reason,everybody benefits in a
relationship in some way, evenwhen it's unhealthy, right?
Even in a toxic relationship,yeah, there's there's still
there's a lot of celebritiesthat are together because it

(01:05:45):
makes sense to theirprofessional careers, not
because they actually like eachother, right?
There there are there aresiblings that genuinely say,
Hey, I I if you were my brother,we probably wouldn't be friends.
Right.
That's a relationshipnonetheless, right?
Yeah.
So I don't know.
There's always a dynamic to it.
But I I don't I think thediscretion became more important

(01:06:08):
than the relationship, andthat's really sad.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:12):
Yeah.
You know, let me let me ask youthis, Dr.
Will, because you just saidsomething, and we're probably
gonna have to talk off offcamera for this.
When do you think for sexworkers, when do you think that
they should um um let someonethat they're dating know that
they are a sex worker?

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:28):
Hmm.
Three things.
First thing should be first ofall, do you know what type of
sex worker you are?
Because the type of sex workeryou are will determine the type
of discretion that's needed,right?
When the pandemic happened,everybody started getting only
fans.
People, everybody started doingthis and curing links, and they
do, hey, I'm only doing videochats, hey, I'm only doing

(01:06:50):
content, hey, I'm only doingthis, right?
And so there's different levelsof that, right?
So I don't I never want to thinkthat because you say you're a
sex worker, it should just beall across the board how things
should be.
Um the second thing would beit's important to know in the
beginning up front.
Like I I believe up beinghopefully you have enough

(01:07:12):
confidence up front to say whatit is, right?
That would be ideal.
That would be ideal.
Um and also the last thing is Ihope you know yourself well
enough to know your limitationsin the relationship, right?
Don't don't date outside youremotional social status, right?
I I'm not trying to be funny,but like I being a therapist, I

(01:07:35):
have an emotional intelligenceand an articulation that I have
crafted.
I I I need to understand mypartner's limitations before I
and then I need to I need Ishould be responsible for that.

SPEAKER_04 (01:07:47):
Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:47):
Be responsible for your own emotional relationship
needs, right?
Like I know that there's gonnabe a limitation to my partner
because they may not have thesame language as I do, and so I
need to make space for that, orI don't put myself in that
position because I I knowbetter, so I try better, right?

(01:08:09):
So, you know, so I I would saythat there's different levels to
that, definitely.

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:14):
Yeah, thank you for that.
Thank you for that.
I know we kind of went, I mean,we we still on, but we kind of
went off on something else.
But I needed it because that'sanother that's that's another
show.
It is definitely another show.

SPEAKER_06 (01:08:26):
Definitely another show.

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:27):
That's definitely another show.

SPEAKER_06 (01:08:28):
Yeah, that's definitely another show.

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:29):
Yeah, that's definitely another show.
Okay, so I got a question forthe audience.
The um the audience to listen tous right now, BTG crew.
I see you all out there.
Have you ever felt something waswrong before you had a single
piece of proof?
And did you listen to it or didyou push it down?
Drop it in the chat and let meknow.
Drop it in the chat and let meknow.

(01:08:51):
Actually, I just got some goodnews, y'all.
I know this is going a littlebit off there, but I had to
share this with y'all right now.
So y'all know the past few weekswe've been shooting for cult
two, um, episodes three and fourright now.
Right now, cult one and two islive right now on Tubi.
Episode one and two right now islive on Tubi.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:14):
Oh, that's dope.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:16):
Just found it out.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:17):
Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:18):
That's it gotta approved, like all that, all
through.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:21):
Oh, it's it's running right now.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:23):
Oh, that's so dope.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:24):
Literally, it's running right now.
I just got right right now.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:28):
Oh, that's so dope.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:30):
That's dope, yes.
Yes, there's right now.
Damn, they ain't even let usknow.
Like, yeah.
Like right now.
All right, so I see.
I want you to do me a favor, dogon my mic.
So that was a question that weposed once uh earlier earlier,
and I want to go up to it alittle bit.

(01:09:51):
Um, scroll up some.
Yeah, right here, uh, brawling.

SPEAKER_06 (01:09:57):
Yeah, could you read that for me since you uh okay
nine years in a relationship,and I found out a secret that
was keep that was kept from meand had made me feel so empty
inside, like my heart droppedout of my body.

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:14):
Yeah, so that was posed from the the that was
coming from a question where weposed that have you ever found
out something from um in arelationship that you know that
kind of broke you, you know whatI'm saying?
That was betrayal, you know,that kind of broke.
And you know, that's that'shard, you know.

(01:10:35):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:38):
Yeah, that's that's the that's that moment of shame
being trapped in your body,yeah.
Right?
I call that I call thoseemotional malignancies where
it's unresolved emotions thatnever get expressed and they
live in you, and then once youkind of find out it leaves you,
but that space that left ismeant to be filled in with the

(01:10:59):
things that are true now.
But in the beginning, that'sthat's a that's genuinely the
start of betrayal, right?
That's the actualization whenyou're realizing what was never
there, yeah.
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:16):
All right, so on this segment, I want to go a
little deeper.
I want to open up this up uheven wider now because I know
that there are people that's inthe chat, we just shared it with
Rollin, um, who are livingprobably some of the subversion
of this story right now, maybenot the exact situation um that
our writer, um, the writer ofthe letter is, but that are
feeling or being in somethingthat does not feel quite right

(01:11:38):
or not knowing what to do withthat.
So if you discovered, um if youdiscover tomorrow that someone
that you were in a relationshipwith or currently are in with
and have been keeping a majortruth from you, what would you
need in order to heal from that?
What would you need in orderfrom heal for that?

(01:11:58):
Not what you think you shouldneed, but what would you
actually need?
What would you actually need ifyou found out?

SPEAKER_03 (01:12:12):
That's a great question.

SPEAKER_04 (01:12:13):
Yeah, I'm gonna give time then, you know, in in the
in the comments for them to umget, you know, do me a favor,
uh, go back up there, scroll soI can read that question again.
No, wrong one.
All right, here go the questionagain.
If you discover tomorrow thatsomeone that you were in a
relationship with or arecurrently with, that you have

(01:12:36):
been keeping a major truth from,what would you need in order to
heal from that?
Not what you think you shouldneed, what would you actually
need?
You know, a couple of weeks ago,Dr.
Will, we had did um an episodeon um about healing a broken

(01:12:58):
heart.
It was a really good, it was areally good episode that we did.
Um a young lady had written inum about you know with her heart
being broken.
And I think I did it for uh Talkto Me Tuesday, you know, um
episode as well.
You know, that sometimes is, youknow, we have to decide to move
on from that broken heart andfind a way to heal, you know,

(01:13:21):
move forward, um, to chooseourselves, you know.
Um and that was a pretty goodone, wasn't it?
It was pretty good, yeah.
Yeah.
We got some comments up there,Mike.

SPEAKER_06 (01:13:32):
Yes, we do.

SPEAKER_01 (01:13:36):
I like that answer.

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:41):
Time is space, time and space.
Time and space.

SPEAKER_01 (01:13:43):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:45):
That's yeah, that's a good one, Charmaine.
Yeah, time and space.

SPEAKER_01 (01:13:50):
But that's that's that's the bread and butter.
That's the bread and butteranswer.

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:53):
We can't see on the other ones.
All right, good, bring me backover here.
Yeah, bring me back over here.
I appreciate that.
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you for that, Charmaine.
And you know, um, I like that.
You know, what we need a lot isis the truth when it comes to
being in these relationships,it's truth communication, even

(01:14:16):
when it hurts.
Even when it hurts.
I think a lot of people feellike um it's okay to not be
truthful because we don't wantto hurt one's feelings.
You know, um, but no, we need toknow the truth.
We need to know what it is so wecan make a clear decision about

(01:14:39):
our own life, you know, so wecan know what it is that we want
in our lives.
You you know what I'm saying?
So um, so we don't have to bethe representative.
So we have some kind of controlin something that we, you know,
have for ourselves in our lifeand moving forward.

SPEAKER_01 (01:14:58):
Yeah.
And I want to say this if forfor those of you that are like
answering this question, the thequestion I hope that you're
you're you're finding is what isthe reassurance I need to feel
like myself again?
What is the reassurance I needto feel like myself again?

(01:15:20):
Because a lot of times we don'tget the reassurance.
And I I know that we talk abouttruth and we need truth, but I
think a lot of relationshipslack transparency.
Yeah.
And I think that's why manyrelationships suffer the way
they do.
Um, and you usually you usuallyeither grow together or you grow
apart.
I think you grow regardless, butI think people grow together or

(01:15:42):
they grow apart inrelationships.

SPEAKER_04 (01:15:44):
Exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
Thank you for that, Dr.
Will.
So, Mike, my last word on thissegment before we close.
You know, um, what is one thingthat you want me and who are
watching tonight take away fromeverything that we talked about?

SPEAKER_06 (01:15:58):
One thing that they need to need to take is, and uh,
and you say it all the time,self-love.
They need to know themselves,they need to get the love of of
themselves and get over a wholelot of things that was in their
lives so they can move forward,you know, because that's that's

(01:16:20):
what it comes down to.
Coming down with if you have thegood intention in yourself and
you are true to yourself, that'swhat makes it be easy, that's
make it much easier to be truewithin your relationship within
your life, whether it's yourwife or your son, daughter, or
whatever it may be.
But you really gotta look indeep inside yourself and get

(01:16:41):
that truth of the self who youare, so you can move forward.
You know, that that's what itreally comes down to.
Is I mean, if if you still lieto yourself, then you still
lying to everybody else.

SPEAKER_04 (01:16:56):
Oh, that's so true.
That is that is so true.
That it that is so true.
And Dr.
Will, do you have any last umlast words for us before we
close out?

SPEAKER_01 (01:17:08):
Yes, when it comes when it comes to uh love, lies,
betrayal, secrets, and mentalhealth, I think the biggest
takeaway is understanding thegrace you need to develop.
I need you to understand thatthere is what you're doing in

(01:17:29):
one day will never be enough tobe everything you are.
And so this understanding ofgrace can be invested in simply
by giving yourself the chance tosay, what do I need today to be
who I am?
What do I need today to be who Iam?

(01:17:50):
When you can start honoring thatsimple phrase, you're gonna
change the dynamic in what yououtput and input in every
relationship because you'regonna finally put yourself into
the actual relationship itself.
So instead of providing for therelationship, be with the
relationship and see where yourfruits actually lie.

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:12):
Beautiful, beautiful.
Thank you, thank you.
All right, my beautiful people.
Well, before I let you gotonight, I wanna I want to just
come back to the letter one moretime because after everything
that she went through, after thebreakup, discovery, the healing,
she closes with this.
She says, This experience hadhelped me tremendously at really

(01:18:32):
cleaning up my inner self fromresidual trauma we all carry
around and at developing trueemotional resilience.
It is my firm belief that if Ihad not needed to learn this
lesson, God would not havemirrored it to me.
Mirrored it to me.
Even with stones that are put inyour way, you can build

(01:18:53):
something beautiful.
She closed her letter with thosewords.
And I want her to know thatwherever she is tonight, um,
hold on.
She even said that she was goingto be watching today.
So I hope that she's able towatch it live.
I know she's in another country,so maybe she's gonna watch it on
a replay.
But thank you so much.
So wherever you are tonight,thank you for the letter.

(01:19:14):
Um, your letter has become theheartbeat of our entire month.
I thank you for trusting me andmy crew with the letter.
Um, and you definitely havebuilt um that you have built
with the stone.
I thank you so much.
Um, and here's what I want youto take home with you tonight.
Number one, betrayal trauma isreal.

(01:19:35):
It is a clinical recognizedthing.
You are not dramatic for beingwrecked by it.
Name it correctly so you canheal correctly.
Number two, your body is notlying to you.
That airy feeling, that quietknowing, that dream that you
felt it was real, that was real.
That was intelligence, baby, notparanoia.
You learned from it and youhonored it.

(01:19:56):
Number three, you can understandwhy someone hurt you and you
still chose not to accept it.
Compassion for them does notrequire you to minimize your own
pain.
Both things get to exist.
All right.
And number four, the lesson doesnot come to destroy you, it
comes to develop you.
The only question is, what areyou going to build with that

(01:20:18):
stone?
So I want you to join me nextThursday.
Next Thursday for week two ofour love, lost, and reclaim is
red flags and rose-coloredglasses.
Why we ignore what we alreadyknow?
We're about to get uncomfortablein the best way.
You don't want to miss it.

(01:20:38):
You don't want to miss it.
All right.
And also, also, also, also,before I let you go tonight, I
want to share something with youall.
Um, we got our love and mentalhealth, you know, because we're
not just doing this just for wealways raising money.
We're raising money for it.
Everything that we raise, godirectly to the mental health um

(01:21:01):
resources.
And we got our our ourgivegofundme.com, givesy.org,
dot pal Mike Mike will put thelink up because it's more than
just that.
If you can't give tonight, atleast share the link.
Um, give that as well.
And we also, um I'm trying towait till Mike might put that up
there.

(01:21:23):
All right.
And so we are supporting thesetwo different causes.
We're supporting this one forthe mental health campaign
because again, mental healthsupport should not be
privileged.
Um, this is the link, it's inthe show notes.
All right, thank you, Dr.
Mike Mike.
And then I'm also the secondone.
All right, the second one, ourguest Sam Ridley III, who will

(01:21:45):
you all meet on May 28th, hebrought a little boy named
Maverick to our attention.
Maverick is fighting, and I hopeI can say this right, um,
neuroblastoma is a childhoodcancer.
And Sam has been raisingawareness for Maverick
throughout his entire tour.
Uh, he's been raising money forhim.
And when he told me about thislittle boy, I knew that this

(01:22:06):
community needed to know abouthim too.
So Maverick Go Fund Me link isalso going to be in our show
notes right now.
Also a link, and Mike is gonnaum link it right there.
So if you can give, please do.
Um, if you cannot, just pleaseshare the link because this is
community is powerful and thelittle boy deserves to fill it.
So both links again will be inthe show notes.

(01:22:28):
This is how we close out thismonth with action and not with
just words.
All right.
So again, Dr.
Will, it's so good to have youback, baby.

SPEAKER_01 (01:22:40):
Yeah, it feels good, and and it feels nice to know
that we're talking about thingsthat people are really going to
help become their highest self.

SPEAKER_04 (01:22:49):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
And BTG crew, thank you asalways.
I see y'all in those chats.
Thank you so much on all thestreaming platforms.
I can't see everybody, but I seey'all out there.
I see the numbers up there aswell.
Dop on my Mac as always.
Thank you so much.
Again, if you uh need any love,sex, relationship advice, you

(01:23:10):
know to email me at axenaomiomiat gmail.com and also visit us
at axenaomi.com.
And as I always say, be good toone another in yourselves, and
always keep it sexy.
Have an amazing, amazing night.
Have a good one.
Hey, is the goddess NaomiThanks?
And I hope you enjoyed that lastepisode of Axe Naomi Bridging

(01:23:31):
the Gap.
And if you did, please like,subscribe, press that
notification button, as well ascomment.

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