Imran J. Khan

Imran J. Khan is a Pakistani-American filmmaker, editor, and writer. He made headlines this year with his groundbreaking feature film, “Mustache,” winning the 2023 SXSW Grand Jury Award for Narrative Feature.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:11):
So hello everyone, and welcome to Ruckus Avenue Radio and
my show Bollywood to Hollywood. My name is Camal Kahan,
and I am really excited to have a guest on
my show who is a filmmaker, a writer essentially a creator,
and his name is Imran Khan.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
You're listening to Ruckus Avenue Radio, available now on the
free iHeartRadio app.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
And Ron Jay Kahn, Welcome to the show in Ron,
Thank you, thanks for having me absolutely now. It's a
pleasure to have you. So, I know you've been in
the film creating business, if you like, for a little
while now, but is a transition for you from what
you did before and kind of your journey has been

(01:24):
not sort of linear in that respect that you've always
just made films from the startment of film school all
the way from the beginning. But I think a lot
of it's also reflected in the movies and the films
you've created essentially. So I'd love to hear and the
audience would love to hear a little bit more about that.
So if I want to start with, I mean, if
you can just tell me a little bit more about

(01:46):
how you kind of got into the creative side and
making these What I really loved, by the way is
and what I've watched recently is with your filmmaking abilities
and what you have created, especially representing the culture for Southeast,
it's just very very enlightening. So I'd love to know
how you got into it.

Speaker 3 (02:05):
Yeah, I mean it's it's a really well first of all, Yeah,
thanks for having me on this show. Like I I, yeah,
I love talking about this stuff. And I think for me,
I had a really in a way, a very typical
South Asian kind of upbringing, and that I it was

(02:26):
the arts were something that maybe you could do as
like a hobby, but they weren't necessarily encouraged as a career.
And so I found myself, you know, in high school
getting really interested in music and in theater, and I

(02:49):
did theater my senior year of high school and that
kind of like opened me up to a different kind
of world of you know, like what what you know,
a glimpse into what like a creative life could be like.
And I really fell in love with with acting first.
And then I went to college and I didn't have

(03:12):
really the courage or the or really like the resolve
to choose a creative path at that time, and so
I kind of defaulted to what you know, was expected
or what my parents kind of wanted me to do,
which was engineering. And I went to UC Davis and
I studied biological systems engineering, and like very coincidentally during

(03:35):
that time, one of my classmates, one of my one
of the my friends in undergrad was Who's Who's now, Like,
you know, a big comedian and actor, Hassan Minhaj, And
he was a really big part of my creative journey
because he was really serious about kind of making films

(03:58):
and making sketch comedy and and doing comedy and all
this stuff. And I was really really motivated and interested
in that too, and like and I didn't know exactly
what I wanted to do, but I knew I wanted
to do creative work or just like make funny stuff
or making things people.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
You know.

Speaker 3 (04:15):
It was just like that was exciting. And so me
and him kind of made all these like YouTube videos
together and then some of those went viral and and
it was like really early YouTube days, so it just
kind of was like, oh, wow, this is like something
we can do. And I, again, I was doing engineering,

(04:38):
like that's what I was doing during the daytime, and
then we were making videos and doing all this other
stuff like when we weren't in school. And I think
I at that time, I thought, oh, I really I
wonder how I can make this, you know, like my
life essentially, and I didn't know how. Hassan kind of

(04:59):
went more of the traditional like stand up route, and
I graduated and started working in medical devices. I was
still making films, I was still kind of doing things
on the side, but I was but I wasn't. I
was sort of trying to figure out, like what how
do how do I fit like create creativity into like

(05:22):
my life and my career and and I kind of
hit a dead end in terms of what I was
able to do with my career in medical devices, and
I or just like my interest wasn't there, and I
didn't never really know why I was doing it or
or what what what it was for. And then I

(05:42):
I took a screenwriting class. My I took a screenwriting
class while I was working at Stanford. Actually I was
working in the Bay Area and I took a screenwriting
class at Stanford. It was like a continuing study. It
was kind of like a courses made for people working
professionals and you could take like a screenwriting class like

(06:03):
this evening class. And it kind of made me realize, like,
I don't know if I've ever really enjoyed studying anything
in a classroom, like I think. I think I thought
school was supposed to be miserable for everybody, and I
thought that's just the way it is. And when I

(06:24):
took that class, I realized, Oh, you can be really
like it could be like fun to like learn something.
And I was like, oh, this is really interest. I
was really interested in, like screenwriting, and so it was like, really,
it's something I'm still really interesting. I'm still like fascinated
by like the the craft behind screenwriting and constructing a screenplay,
and it's just like really fascinating to me. So I

(06:47):
really enjoyed that, you know. And then I was like, oh,
maybe I should Maybe I would like to study film,
Like maybe that would be because because I don't know,
like some people just like learn film by doing it,
and then some people study. And I thought, oh, I
think i'd learn a lot by you know, going through
like a formal training. And so then I applied to

(07:08):
film school. And at this time, I'm like, I think
I'm around twenty five. I so I'd worked for a
couple of years. I graduated college, which was a whole saga.
I didn't do very well, so it took me a
long time to graduate. And then I and then I
worked for a couple of years. So by then I
was like twenty five, and I was at this juncture
trying to figure it out. And then I applied to
film schools. I got rejected by all of them except one,

(07:30):
and then that was NYU tish Asia. And then I
and I went to NYU tsh Asia. It's kind of crazy,
like it was. It's not so they have the New
York program and at that time they had a program
in Singapore. Moved to Singapore. I had just gotten married.
We moved to Singapore. I did the I started the
program and it was great, and I learned so much.

(07:52):
I feel like in those three years I was there,
I learned maybe like it felt like I learned like
ten years of like if I was trying to do
it on my own. It's just a more concentrated kind
of conservatory, you know, program that like it really Yeah,
I just learned a lot. And then I made a

(08:13):
bunch of shorts, short films while I was there and
then I when I got out, I I kind of
at that point it was like, well, now I'm a filmmaker,
you know, Like it wasn't like I could go back
to what I was doing before. I really kind of
I mean for better or worse, like burn that bridge

(08:35):
and just kind of forward. But I think like doing
working in medical devices and getting the engineering, I'm sure
like I learned something about like discipline and also kind
of learning what doesn't work for me, Like and that's
another thing you have to figure out, like what you're

(08:57):
what what your brain and energy and mind can like
is it can can can achieve? And like I mean
maybe I'm not saying that right, but like what it's
kind of like what you're geared towards, like what you're

(09:19):
in your what your nature is pulling you towards. I
feel like you have a better shot at being successful
then and just having more like kind of job satisfaction
in general, rather than doing something you don't have necessarily
passion for and then not doing well in it. For me,
I've always felt like I'm I'm kind of like an
all or nothing kind of person, like I either give

(09:41):
myself my full self to something or I'm like I
can't even like lift a finger. And so I think
for me, a big part of my life has been
like finding things that I want to like devote my
whole self to, and that way, I put myself in
a position to succeed rather than fail. I think, Whereas, yeah,
if I'm like forcing myself to do something that I

(10:02):
just can't do or don't want to do, I don't
even I mean even if I do it, I don't
think it'll be like I don't think I'll be like
achieving excellence in any way. And so I think for me,
I'm like, oh, how can I put myself in a
position to win? That kind of that's what led me
to know, Yeah, things I like about film that.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
I like workd for like my brown Yeah, wow, what
a Jenny. I mean that's uh, that's a that's great.
And also the fact that you working or met me
Hassan too, who went into different client things. So random?
Was he in the same school or area? How did
you guys?

Speaker 3 (10:39):
We went to college together, college together together, and so
then uh, and then it's just as like he was
like a friend of my roommate and then we met
like that and then uh, we there were these South
Asian culture shows that the every year there'd be one

(11:01):
and they're pretty big. They're like a lot of people
would come, uh you know, and and then everybody would
do different acts and most of the acts were like
dances and stuff like that, but then there'd be like
they'd be like skits too, and video skits and as
well as live skits, and so that's the stuff that
me and Hassan like did together. And then like that

(11:23):
led to like posting stuff on YouTube. It was like
it was like, uh, this really great outlet to Like
the South Asian culture shows were a great outlet to
put something together and and get an audience for it,
especially in an age where like YouTube didn't exist. Like
YouTube came out when I was like a junior in college.

(11:46):
So yeah, for that, like there wasn't like an easy
way to like put videos out and for people to
see them easily. And so it really was a big
shift when YouTube came out. But before that, it was
like doing these live shows that you're call was like
the biggest audience you could get and it was like
very accessible. It wasn't like there were a lot of
people who were competing against to like get you know,

(12:08):
stage time or or like they you know you they
were happy that anybody would would you know, put something
together for it and yeah, and so it was like
a great opportunity and we did that stuff it and
it led to like us figuring out like what kind
of comedy we liked and what kind of things worked
and what didn't work. And and then he got me.

(12:30):
And then in a way like he like he credits me,
Like if you look up Hussin's interviews and stuff like that,
he'll always like credit me with like being like, oh,
because there was this one particular night his his again,
he was my roommate's friend, and so he was over
at our apartment and I was like, I mean because
I grew up watching comedy like a stand up like

(12:53):
with my brother and like just watching like whatever like
Chris Rock or whatever. So like a new Chris Rock
special came out and I was like it was never scared.
I think it came out in two thousand and four
or something five maybe or maybe earlier, but it was
like I was like, oh, Like I downloaded it and

(13:15):
I was like, oh, I'm gonna watch this. You guys
want to watch and they're like yeah, sure, and then
we like were watching like the new Chris Rock Special.
To me, it was kind of like an ordinary thing
but for us, and it was like he had never
like watched like a comedy special. I think that's why
it was. It was like the first time he like
watched a comedy special, and it was He credits me

(13:35):
with being like this spark of like, oh maybe I
should do comedy, and so that is true. And then
weirdly he got me into doing stand up because I
never thought I was a fan of stand up, but
I never was like, oh, I want to do stand up.
It just it was like this. It was it seemed
way too scary and like too difficult and like how

(13:58):
do you even get into it and how even do it?
Like it just seemed like inaccessible in like all these ways.
And I never saw really except for like Russell Peters
there was something like brown comedians like, so it's just
it just seemed like not a thing that me or
anybody around me could do. It also felt like a
thing older people did, you know by the time, Like
most stand up comedians are like older than you know

(14:20):
what we were like nineteen twenty like, so it was
like they it felt like something older people did, like
you couldn't do it if you were younger, but it
but it didn't occur to you. That occur to me
that you have to start young to get good at it,
you know, like you have to death. They started when
they were that age your age too, and then they
got good. You're like Chris, like Chris Rock. You're thinking
that that age group is who does comment or something.

(14:43):
But then so Hussin was doing stand up and then
as a fan and just as a friend, I was
just like, oh, like I would tag along with him
to his shows and just watch him do stand up
and we talk about it and we would like I
would like throw suggestions and we were just like kind
of work shop stuff and brainstorm ideas for him, like
what he would do on stage. And seeing that process

(15:07):
him do it made me think, you know what, maybe
I could do it like it just it became accessible
to me all this yeah, and I was like, oh, like,
let me, I would love to try this, Like I
don't know what my version of stand up would be
and like whatever, but I it would be fun to
like try it because I'm such a fan of stand
up and I just think that, like I I think

(15:27):
I would like it's worth just trying. And then and
then he got and then I started doing opens and
then I was doing like shows with him, and then
I was doing some comedy clubs in San Francisco. And
then I did stop doing stand up, and I and
and sometimes I think, oh, maybe I should have kept
doing it in one way or another. But I did
stop doing stand up and I focused more on film.

(15:48):
And then I went and to film school and then
like did a bunch of stuff and then I became
an editor, and then that was kind of like my focus. Yeah,
but but now I'm like back doing stand up. But
it was like there was like fourteen years in between.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
Well that's quite a transition and stuff as well with
what you've you've done, and you know the fact that
you know it's timely. Some people talk about stories of
who they met and how they worked with them, either
they crossed paths, but you actually kind of kept, you know,
work together on too.

Speaker 3 (16:20):
I worked on his first comedy special. Like as an editor,
I worked on the first comedy special. I worked on
his the pilot for Patriot Act him with that stuff
related to that, I had so he's always like we still.
I actually just worked on something, like I kind of
directed and edited a piece that plays as part of

(16:44):
the Husson Versus Ronnie Tour. I don't know if you're
you've seen that, but it's a live show that they're
taking around right now. And I worked on So it's
like we work together on stuff. And then he was
in my movie, did like probably and think he's like
an EP on my movie, Like yeah, so that yeah,
we're like kind of yeah, like we work on each
other's stuff, and I'm always like dropping everything to like

(17:07):
whatever he needs because I I just it's it's like
beyond like a career thing for me with Hassan, It's
more like it's just like we started together and I
have I will always like support, you know, whatever he's
doing and want to help and and I think he
feels similarly like we just he's been really supportive of

(17:27):
anything I've asked him about or like if I need
help with anything, or if I need like like a favor,
He's always there. And like, I think that's just because
we have that relationship from twenty years ago.

Speaker 4 (17:51):
You're listening to Ruckus Avenue Radio.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
I think that's fantastic, right, I mean, you know, not
everybody gets an opportunity to find somebody who looks like them,
you know, talks like them, if you like. I'm talking
about the fact that it's South Asian as well, right,
I mean it's comedians and whatnot, obviously, but also to
have that ability to do that sort of growing up
would also inspire each other. Right, So everyone you took
different parts, but the fact that you were able to
do that, and we'll transition onto you know, the film

(18:27):
stuff and talk a little bit about that. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:29):
Yeah, I'm just curious to hear what you think about
the movie and that night.

Speaker 1 (18:34):
So I did watch it last night, and I had
a lot to think about it, and I'm sure the
audience would who has seen it. If they haven't seen,
it'll be very interesting as well to put them to
hear about it in your perspective as well. But first
of all, congrats on naturally the transition. You know, everyone
makes that type of transition, especially in stark like that,
like engineering, but then also to kind of take the
guts to not just make that transition from hey, i

(18:55):
think I'm going to do arts and I think I
can do it or something creative, but let me just
dabble it, but actually go and travel to a new
country and then do it that way.

Speaker 3 (19:04):
It takes a type of yeah, film takes a type
of insanity and like so it's like it's just I
think going to film school is like a crazy thing
to do. I mean it's expensive and it's like what
are you going to learn? And is it? So I
think you need I think people who become filmmakers are
there's a there has to be like because it's not rational,

(19:25):
like it's amotional thing to do, and like I think
you have to be irrational to like be like, oh
I want to like go to film school and like
make film. Yeah, it's just crazy. And then yeah, to
move just like move to Singapore. But it's like exactly,
that's just as crazy. You know, it's all to me.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
Right right, So it's like yeah, yeah, So I mean
crazy good is what I'll say, because probably because I'm
biased because I'm also in the same industry and made
some transitions to myself. That's from a personal point of view,
I do think it's crazy good because I think all
suddenly you don't take a risk, you actually take a
time to live and do things that are different as
well and kind of change. So no, so I congratulate that.

(20:02):
But before we're going to dive into this sort of
the film, and I'll give you a opinion that before
we do it, just quick break here, So welcome back
everyone to Ruckus Avenue Radio. I am Camal Khan and
my show Bollywood to Hollywood, and I have Imran Khan, filmmaker,
creator and writer with us today and we were just
talking about his transition into filmmaking from engineering. But now

(20:24):
we're going to talk a little bit about the film.
So I got a chance to watch Mustache. If you
haven't had a chance to watch it or it's it
was amazing. I really enjoyed it. My personal view is
I'd love to kind of delve into also behind the scene,
you know, what we were thinking behind making something like
this When I actually saw the name it said, when

(20:44):
I saw the poster, I thought, well, okay, it's a
kid with a mustache. Okay, what's the big deal? And
I also thought, well, it was this kind of a
one of those movies where it's traditional of you know,
maybe they're just going to be talking about the fact
that he's a little bit of a you know, South
Asian kid another story whereas a little bit of a misfit.
But there's a lot of layers to it, and I

(21:06):
think it was really well done and there's lots of
different areas and I want to hear so first of all, yes,
I really enjoyed it. By the way, there's some that
you're watch and I was kind of hooked all the
way to the end. And I also think that I'd
love to get into your mind about why you thought
that was you know, was it personal to you? What

(21:27):
were and how important was it for you to tell
this story because you could pickhetty story. I mean, we
could talk about South Asian, we could talk about so
many to thorough stories out there. And especially because there's
so many stories about you know, I see a lot
and you probably do as well, about the auntie, the
sort of dating, the marriage stuff. This wasn't about that.
This is about a young kid, you know, going through

(21:49):
adolescents of pre adolescents almost so Tom's a bit about
that and run from your Yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:55):
No, I mean I think the movie like you feel,
you know, the question I get a lot like at
right after people watch me like how much of this
is real or like this is based on your life,
like what and I think, and it's like it's I
think with any fiction, any narrative fiction, like the the

(22:16):
writer is in the movie kind of whether they like
it or not. And in this case, it's a little more.
It's a it's a little more prominent that that it's
about me, you know, And and that was always kind
of It's like, I really feel like it's it's semi
autobiographical in that there's a lot of things that are

(22:38):
directly taken from my life and then fictionalized. But but
the the kind of bones of it are very true.
Like I did go to a private Islamic school in
the Bay Area, and then I went to public high
school and that transition was like, you know, like strange

(23:00):
and awkward and all those things, and I and I
wanted to write about that, but then and I did
do theater in high school. But but the events of
the movie are like are kind of are fictionalized, and
so there's it's a blend. It's like I'm trying to
get to the truth of an experience, but I use
things that really happened to me and then and then
heightened versions of things and people that I knew, and

(23:23):
and it becomes this, you know, like a it's all
thrown into a blender and it becomes kind of it's
its own thing. At the end of the day, it's
like it's not really me and it's not really and
it's like something that happens with like even when you
when you cast the film, like when you actually start
casting a film, you're like, oh, Okay, this isn't like
actually my dad or whatever. It's like something else because

(23:45):
this actor is bringing them their own self to it
and they're almost fathered of it whatever. And then it's like,
but that makes that can make the movie alive actually,
and you can kind of it becomes bigger than just
my experience.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
You have a mustache back in the day as well.

Speaker 3 (24:01):
Oh yeah, yeah, so like yeah, that part's true. I
didn't my parents wouldn't let me shave until I was
in tenth grade, and so from like thirteen to like fifteen,
I had like a really big mustache. And so yeah,
that's where the movie comes from. It's funny because it
wasn't supposed to be like like, it wasn't supposed to

(24:26):
be like the main like sort of the main sort
of metaphor, if you want to call it that for
the movie until I had like written like a draft
of it, and like I was writing it and there
was like I wrote this, there was like one scene
where he like talked about his mustache, and then it

(24:47):
was like, oh, I think this is like it'd be
interesting if this was like a thing he was struggling
with throughout the whole movie. And then it so it
wasn't like obvious like when I first started writing. It
wasn't even like the thing I like, the concept of
the movie. Like that concept of the movie came out
later in the writing process, and then it was like
and people were like, oh, that's really funny and interesting

(25:08):
and like and like and then that and I was like, oh,
and then it became a bigger part of the movie
in a really interesting way and like funny and weird way.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
Yeah that's I think that, but that's still interesting. And
it was funny by the way, because I had that
mustache when I was like twelve or thirteen, and I
didn't share. People told me, my parents told me look great,
so but but I you know, I looked at this
and thought it doesn't And I think a lot of
people can relate to that, whether it's a mustache or
something else. So I think there's a lot more to
it than that. And also, you know, you know, depending

(25:40):
on where you grew up, right, especially if your transition,
if you came from immigrant parents and you were in
a school, maybe it's predominantly white. Maybe there's there's some
other kids in the relationship with the other Indian kid
as well that I noticed as well that you put
in there. There's lots of nuances. But I think the
fact that he's got a will you know when I
love that scene and that in that theater class which

(26:01):
he does go, he ends up sort of just watching
and seeing that happened, this curiosity that he has as well.
So from do you did you feel when you've made me?
Because did you think, okay, well, it's a blend of
as you said, of your thoughts, you know, your experiences
that you you wanted to tell a story that was

(26:24):
from a perspective of a kid rather than sort of
a grown up sort of version. Was it what was
the reason that compelled you to sort of up from
a sort of child's point of view? And also think
about the other short that you know you had shared
with me as well, and I wanted to kind of understand,
you know, what were the thoughts behind that. Is it
because you don't necessarily fit in, but you feel like
you are normal and you want to make this transition.
So yeah, I'd love to kind of get yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:46):
Like using like a child's point of view, Yeah, I think, yeah,
I just I don't know, I really like, I mean,
this is just me as like a fan of film,
Like I really like coming of age stories, Like I
like movies that. I mean like a lot of my
favorite films are some version of coming of age and
I just really like connect with I connect with that.

(27:13):
And maybe it's just my own life experiences, but I
just like really connect with kids like figuring out who
they are. Just think it's like it it's something that's
indicative of coming of age films. But I think we
all kind of go through different coming of age, you know,

(27:34):
kind of over and over in our lives as as
we transition. Like I was just thinking about it the
other day. I was like, I think, I think you
you're constant constantly having to like figure out who you
are as you get older, like as you just enter
different phases. It's like you're you're figuring out who you are,

(27:56):
like as a as a young person, like maybe in
like high school, then you're like figuring out who are you?
Like when you're in college, like like what are you about?
What do you? Who are you? And then you're figuring
out like you start working and you're like, okay, wait,
who am I? Because am I this job? Am I me?

Speaker 1 (28:10):
Like?

Speaker 3 (28:10):
What what do I want to do? And what is this?
Like you have to figure this out like at then
you get married and you're like, okay, now who am
Like how am I in this unit? Now? Who am I?
What am I? What?

Speaker 1 (28:22):
What?

Speaker 3 (28:22):
And then you become a parent and now you're like, okay,
but now who am I? Like who am I in
relation to this? Like uh, my kids and to my
wife and to you know, like I think you're you're
always coming of age in some way and having experiences
that come. So that's why I like the genre. I
guess and then and I thought this story just what

(28:45):
I wanted to. I wanted to explore identity through this
transition of schools, like from going out to the Islamic
school to the public school, because I thought that was
an interesting like almost like a for like east and
West or whatever you want to call it, Like it's
like you're going even though in the experience of the

(29:07):
movie there's no like geographical move, like the kid's not
moving from a city to another city or a country
to another country, but he's moving like from one set
of norms to another set of norms and or one
culture to another culture. And I thought that was really
what I wanted. And so like the school part of it,

(29:28):
moving schools is like serving the story and serving and
so then it's like a kid. It has to be
a kid, you know, like it's just the And I
also just had so many like vivid memories of that time. Yeah, yeah,
I think when when you when you can't stop thinking
about something or a time period or whatever, then you're
like I like, oh, I'm And also just there's nothing

(29:50):
They're very little made about uh South Asian first generation,
like in the in the like nineties or late nineties,
early two thousands, like there's almost like nothing made around
that time. So for me, I felt like, oh, there's
some sort of like a responsibility to like capture that
experience for so that it exists somewhere, so if you

(30:13):
could feel what it felt like to be growing up
during that time with like Pakistani parents like or whatever. Like,
I just think that was like such a unique time.
It's also pre nine to eleven. Like there's a lot
of things about that time for me that are like
really interesting that I wanted to, like I wanted to
put It's like just it's almost like time capsule, like

(30:35):
you want to like I felt a need to like
make something in that time period.

Speaker 1 (30:41):
I love it. I think that the fact that you
did make something that's more unique and differentiated than what
we normally see out there is what I think is
more interesting because nobody really typically does that. I've seen
so many other stories I said to in the beginning
and from a you know, coming of age. That's the theme.
It's it's actually it's very interesting to see now. I

(31:04):
mean people haven't seen it. What would they get an
opportunity to watch it?

Speaker 3 (31:10):
Yeah, So it's coming out very soon. We're hoping this
is like very recent news and and may may be
subject to change, but we're hoping to put the movie
out this summer. So if people can look out, they
can follow me on Instagram, uh in ron j kN

(31:32):
that's my Instagram and then or Also they can follow
Mustache Underscore movie on Instagram and you can find in
both places you'll find news about about the when the
film's coming out, where they can see it, when it'll
be available, and all that stuff. So yeah, I would
say keep stay posted there and and and and look
out for this film coming out this summer.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
Yeah, I think that that it's fantastic. Everyone should go
out and watch it and think that the fact, not
just South Asian people but anybody who is intercoming of age.
Movies just so many nuances to it, a lot of
things that we can talk about that's relatable. Even I
find it really interesting as well, just for people to
know as well. I mean where, so where did you?
I know you grew up in the Bay Area, but

(32:16):
where were you born? Were you born in California as well?

Speaker 3 (32:18):
Or Yeah, I've basically been in California my whole life,
except for like when I went to.

Speaker 1 (32:23):
Film school in Singapore, right right, right, So.

Speaker 3 (32:25):
Yeah, I up in San Jose and in different parts
of the South Bay of the Bay Area. So yeah,
basically like Silicon Valley.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
Yeah. What people don't realize is that there's such a
transition between obviously what immigrant parents who moved there. And
then obviously when you're going with the Islamic school system,
if some people go to this long school and some
people do, reality in reality transition into sort of you know,
regular public schools or what not, even private schools, and
it's for children. I mean I traveled, my parents traveled
a lot, and there was a lot of that too,

(33:00):
so I think it's very relatable. But let's also just
transition to talking about your other short, which I did
get a chance to watch, and The Boy with the
Dinosaur Head more recent. Yeah, yeah, and I really enjoyed
that too. I mean, you've you've obviously got kids as well,
So I just thinking from the perspective of, you know,
what was what was your Yeah, what are your thoughts

(33:23):
on that it's obviously a nine minute short.

Speaker 3 (33:25):
Yeah, I mean so yeah, the writer Aliam Ronzidi, he
he came to me with this like really amazing short
film script that he wanted to make, and he ended
up winning like a really big grant to go towards
production to make the film, and so then we were like,
oh wow, and then he yeah, he asked me. You know,

(33:45):
I was really like honored that he asked me to direct,
and he thought that like what I could bring to
it like as a pairing with the script just and
maybe it's because I've worked with kids before and gotten
kind of learned how to sort of get performances out
of children and all that, and he thought I could

(34:07):
do something with this, and and we ended up collaborating
and and it was it was this really interesting project
because I think it I think it was like a
really interesting way to get into a conversation about what
kids who are surviving trauma from places like Gaza are

(34:33):
going through. And it's like, well, and it's just like
an interesting approach because you don't even know really what
and without spoiling it, I mean, I've kind of just
spoiled it a little bit, but but maybe people will
have seen it by the time this comes out. But
I think it's like, yeah, like I think the movie
is like a really interesting way into to that conversation

(34:54):
in a way that like centers a kid's experience and
it just about this one kid going through something and
and he had this brilliant metaphor with the whole the
the dinosaur metaphor was really you know, clever and but

(35:14):
also like really emotionally powerful. So yeah, he had he
had kind of had this like great container for a
short film. And and I think it's really rare that
I read like a script for a short film where
where it feels really it feels really appropriate for the
scope of a short film, meaning that it's not a

(35:37):
feature film crammed into a short film. Uh that it's
that it can explore something thoroughly without with with having
like an appropriate scope to it. And that's really hard
to do and and and it's like it's just it's
like not an easy thing to to to nail. And

(35:57):
I felt like he had nailed that in terms of like, Okay,
it's essentially like one situation, but through that one situation
you get all this like you get the outside, you
get so much scope and kind of yeah, like you
get like a whole world outside, but but within one
kind of it's almost one like long scene, to be honest,
it's like, yeah it is. Yeah, it's not like it's

(36:19):
almost like continuous. It's essentially continuous, but there's it's not
really like where you know a lot of locations and
a lot of characters and a lot it's like really
like essentially boys down to like two characters like interacting.
And I think that that was really interesting. And that's
also juicy to me as like a director because it
allows you really to like to like to really because

(36:42):
I've made things that are like like I've made short
films that are like a million locations, a million props,
a million whatever, like and all that, and I'm like,
at the end of it sometimes you're like, I think
it's concerned, still turn out good, but at the end
of it, you feel like you didn't really get a
chance to direct. You're just trying to like you know,
you're dealing with like props and locations and you know,

(37:03):
costumes the whole time, and like you're not really like
getting to think about like directing actors performances yea. And
in this it was like it was it was that
situation where I felt like I could really like we
had the time to like dial in performance and really
get something interesting out of both actors. And and that
was also in that again, it's because the script allowed

(37:26):
me to do that. The script was focused enough and
it had the right scope that allows you to like
to work on performance with actors and not be like,
oh my god, we have to get like one take
of this and it to move on because we have
so much to do.

Speaker 4 (37:38):
Yeah, you're listening to Ruckus Avenue Radio Avenue available now
on the free iHeart Radio.

Speaker 3 (37:56):
Apps and so so. And honestly, Mustache was kind of
like that too. Mustache was two takes, let's move on

(38:16):
because we don't have and so that was a different speed.
I had days on Mustache that were like I don't
even know I got them because we and and and
that is not it's not a fun place to be
as a director. Or you're just moving so fast, but
at that point it's like a leap of faith and
you're just like hoping, like like you know, you know,
you're just you're just hoping you've got it and then yeah,

(38:40):
just move on. But I feel like with the Boy
with the Boy with the Dinosaur Head, I was we
had like kind of time and we were able to
like get what we wanted.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
Yeah, I definitely felt that. And and by the way,
and by the way, you haven't given anything away from
because there's as a lot to be when you watch it,
you get people to get to watch it. So I
will say that I did feel that as well, that
you were you took the performance of still Stillness, and
you know the fact that we're obviously it's in that
short there wasn't a moment to be missed. So I

(39:15):
think that that's a good thing. I mean, I told
you in my situation, we've almost told my alst had
how does one take? You just have to have a
trust with the director, do you get it? And it's
never a fun place to be, But it's the same,
like you said, but I think you you know, it's
still turned out awesome, which is kind of always a
nice story. So and I'm thinking about it. We will
transition a little bit now just to kind of get

(39:35):
your thoughts on you know, I'm curious what you know,
have you inspired by anyone when you look at obviously
you talked about Hassan and as a friendship there and whatnot.
But there's something that somebody that really inspired you, or
something that you know, a moment in your life that
really kind of made you think about, you know, oh

(39:56):
that that person really didn't I'm just kind of look
look up to that.

Speaker 3 (40:00):
All the time. I feel like all the time, I'm
always like like I'll see something now that's like oh, man,
like that's that's like the reason, like I want to
make stuff that happens all the time, even I mean
it happens with but I mean when I was when
I was like, I could start back when I was

(40:21):
like a kid, you know, when I saw I think,
I think it's like at an early age, I started
to realize there's good stuff and there's bad stuff, you
know what I mean, Like there's there's good movies and
there's bad movies. Like I felt that even if I
couldn't explain what I was feeling, like watching Back to
the Future as a kid, I have like a Dolorean, right,

(40:43):
but why yeah, back to the Future as a as
a kid was like this is a quality. This is quality,
Like I could feel like this is quality. This this
is a movie, you know, like the different like or
watching like a Steven Spielberg film. When I was like
even like Jurassic Park or like all this stuff was like, oh,

(41:04):
this is there's like levels to like movies. And I
already could feel that, and I loved the movies and
I even loved probably bad movies too, but I knew
the difference. I could feel that there was something about
this stuff that's special. And then when I was a teenager.
I mean like a lot of animated films. Actually, when
I was like a kid, there was like there's a movie,

(41:26):
it's like a favorite of mine that I've seen so
many time. I was obsessed with it. It's called a
Goofy movie. It's a Disney movie. That movie was like
it was like and it's still like it has its
own fan base. It's like I don't need to sing
its praises because it the people who know about that
movie know about that movie. But it was like it
was like a critical it was another movie where I

(41:47):
was like, oh, this is like this is like I
don't know, like the reason you like, like, I'll give
you the quick pitch. The quick pitch on a Goofy
movie is it's actually secretly like a movie about an
immigrant dad and his son because it's like a different
culture than his son, and his son doesn't want to
be a part of that culture. That's why it Actually

(42:09):
it's like so for people who get that or like
I didn't know that that's what I was taking from it.
But when I watch it now, I'm like, oh, that's
why I liked it. He doesn't want to be he
wants to be cool. If he wants to like fit
in at school. So and I think we all like
have that experience of like not wanting it's like, oh,
we don't want to sound like our parents and we

(42:31):
don't know.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
But I was wonderful.

Speaker 3 (42:34):
Yeah, so I think there was something there was It
hit something deep and I but when I was older,
when I was like a teenager, maybe I think I
might have been in college by then. No, actually I
was when I was Okay, when I was a teenager,
I watched a movie and it made me like love
acting and it's not And when I say the movie,
it's like, it's like not a movie that I I think.

(43:00):
At the time, it just meant a lot to me
because I was so blown away by Edward Norton in it.
But the movie is the score. It's a de Niro
Edward Norton movie.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
Yeah, that movie.

Speaker 3 (43:09):
When I was I think I was sixteen, I saw
that and it was just like that to me. It
was like wow, acting acting amazing.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
Like Norton.

Speaker 3 (43:22):
That movie was so good. Maybe if I watched it
now it wouldn't be as good.

Speaker 1 (43:26):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (43:26):
I haven't seen the movie in a long time, but
at that time I was like it just I was
very impressionable and it really like it, like it like
made me love acting or like what acting could be. Yeah,
and then I watched and now I used to like
watch tons of like Edward Norton movies at that time.
He was he was in so many great movies at
that time that it was like, I mean he's still

(43:48):
in great movies. I mean yeah, man, like I mean
he's an amazing yeah. But like but but he was
like a big thing. I was like, I'm obsessed with
Edward Norton, like I think, yeah, it was like consciously
obsessed with everyone. And then and then when I was
in college, I saw Punch Drunk Love, which was the
first Paul Thomas Anderson movie I've ever seen, and that

(44:08):
was just like what is this? Like whatever this is? Like,
how do we make that? That's how I felt. And
I was like we were making like Muslim student association
videos in South Asian videos and stuff. But I was
like thinking about that. I was like, whatever that is,
how do we do that? Even though I didn't understand,
Like I was like, oh, is it like a better camera?
Is that that? Why? Why? What is the feeling I'm

(44:30):
getting when I watched this. Is it because of the camera?
Is it because of the costumes? Is it because of
the cinematography? Is it because of the like? Is it
because of the like writing? Is it the writing? Is
it the like? I was trying to understand, like what
makes a movie like that? What makes a movie.

Speaker 1 (44:44):
Feel and look like that?

Speaker 3 (44:46):
And I was like a eighteen nineteen year old I
couldn't figure out what did that? And what My whole
life since then has been figuring out each of those parts,
do you know what I mean? Like the the how
do you like you have to master so many crafts
to create that thing? And also like yeah, and then
there's like the deeper craft of it of like excavating

(45:08):
yourself and putting that out there.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
Yeah, I mean yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
Sore So that was like huge inspricts. I still I
watched that movie all the time.

Speaker 1 (45:16):
Yeah, I mean, it's amazing. I mean and by the way,
we've got similar movies that we like, so we go
it's a separate discussion because I'm like back to the
future to this time. I'm like, I think, are all
the movies that I would watch Spielberg then obviously Punch Struggle.
I'm thinking to myself that yeah, there's and I think
there's We all are inspired by certain things, right, we
kind of watch those and it sort of serves our

(45:39):
journey to like, you know, what we want to do
in the future as well. So it's kind of like
almost like a little bit of you know, your your
life kind of biography, like yeah, yeah, the movie exactly. Yeah,
it's so true, and so I love that and obviously, well,
you know you're going to continue to do that with

(46:00):
what you've learned from the process. You know, what about
you know, you you talked about the people you inspired
by uc What's what's next for you? Do you feel
like if if a studio, let me put this way,
if studio was giveing a hundred million dollars tomorrow as well, well,
what would you want to make? You talked about all
these epic movies? So I just kind of curious.

Speaker 3 (46:18):
That's like a really that's a really tough question. I mean,
I have stuff right now that I'm working on that
I would love to make that I'm writing, but uh,
I don't know. Okay, how much money did.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
You say I'm giving you like a lot? Well, you know,
as a filmmaker, you're asking the right question of questions,
which is how much money again to give me the
exact right, Like.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
It depends on the story that you want to tell,
like yeah, you know, I mean I I don't know.
Like I think if if somebody was like, oh, you
have to turn fi few million dollars to make a movie,
like I don't know, I'd be really interested in in
like doing Nick. I've always had this, like I or
a dream to do like like a multi generational like

(47:04):
a multi generational like almost like a historical epic, because
I think I think there's like very distinct time periods
that people of our background have experienced because within three
or four generations, every one of those generations had a

(47:27):
completely different experience. There's like colonial India pre pre partition,
post partition, and then and then moving to other countries
and learn starting over in a new country. There's just
one of those experiences like completely like my my family's

(47:48):
from heatherbad like original like originally the experience of being
like like Muslim in heatherabod as in in in colonial
times and in British India is a very is a
very unique and a different It's like it's like a

(48:09):
it's like a bygone era. It's like something that it's
like an idea that doesn't exist anymore, and and that
culturally like everything about it, and then and then post
and then Pakistan has an idea is a is a
completely different like reality of what it's almost like it's
like the experience we don't I didn't think about this

(48:31):
until later on in life, but my experience as being
first generation in America is actually not very that different
than my parents being first generation in Pakistan. They also
left and were like in a new thing with new
new languages being spoken around them, new new It's like
it's a they were. It was a different kind of

(48:53):
moving and maybe it's not as drastic as moving to
the West, but it is like they were moved. They
moved to and then within there, like like my dad
around a lot. They weren't in one place. He didn't
grow up in one place. Actually, he grew up partly
in Heatherbad sind and then and then in Gracci but
just they were on the Were movie. And then he
went to Lahore for uh, he went to Lahore for college. Yeah,

(49:16):
and then he like never came back. And then he
went to America for masters, and then he never came,
so it's like never really stayed for that long. And
then and I think that's that's also really interesting. And
then my experiences growing up and then like my kids
experience is completely different too. I think it's all of

(49:37):
those are like really interesting experiences, and like, I don't know,
there's a story there.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
There's a story.

Speaker 3 (49:43):
Like my grandmother grew up in a completely different reality
in Heatherbad than like her grandkids. I think that's just
really fascinating.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
It is a fascinating I think you're absolutely right. And
I've always wondered, to your point, what our kids or
would be doing in terms of, you know, what they
would be saying, and what would they be taking about,
what they'd be embarrassed about, what they'd want to go
and do going forward as well, because everyone had that
as you go through as multi la as a generation, and
plus as you mentioned as the colonial side of things.

(50:14):
So I'm going to ask you another one question, and
there's the last question for you, because we could I
feel like we could talk forever. But if you had
a choice to invite two people over for dinner, I
tend to ask this question because it's a kind of
and there's no, right, wrong answer. But and it could
be live or dead? Who would they be and why.

Speaker 3 (50:42):
Who would it be? And what if I could if
I could wait, sorry, if I could do what with
this person?

Speaker 1 (50:48):
So you can invite two people for dinner? Okay? Alive
or dead? Right, you can go back in time, you
can do whatever, come back to the whole back to
the future thing. But people you would want to have
over for dinner, just that one one evening. M h.

Speaker 3 (51:09):
I I don't know. That's such a hard question. I
don't know. I can't. I don't know if I can
answer that. I feel because it's like, okay, look, love,
look let me break down my thought process. There's various
levels to like people and why you're interested in them. Okay,
there's there's there's there's on an on an emotional level.

(51:33):
You may you it would be strange not to want
to bring back a family member who's passed away.

Speaker 1 (51:43):
Mm hm.

Speaker 3 (51:44):
So that's a whole category of type of persons.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (51:47):
This this question is very unfair, that is what I'm saying.
It's so it'd be like you, you probably want to
bring you probably want to have dinner with a family
member whose passed way they can't see anymore, like obviously, right,
that's obvious. And then and then like as a Muslim,
I'm like, obviously, be like the prophet muhammadsa Islam, it

(52:08):
would be it would be like another prophet maybe you know,
is al Islam. I I what would that? You know? Like, yes, obviously,
so there's too many. There's too many. Like and then
it's like as a like artist, I'd be like, oh, well,
that's a whole other thing, you know, be like talking
about like I'd love to. I'd love to. I mean,

(52:31):
I i'd love to meet Spielberg, you know, and I
don't have dinner with Steven Spielberg. I'd love that. I'd
love to. Like there's people like Charlie Chaplin, There's people
there's just people who are people who are like, you know,
legendary in what they do. As an artist, that would

(52:53):
be just like incredible to like hear their point of
view and to just get to have dinner with them.
So I feel like there's very different categories of people.
And yeah, I wouldn't be able to choose. In fact,
it would be like a torturous experience to have to
choose I think it's between your family member or like

(53:16):
artists aspect.

Speaker 1 (53:18):
Yeah, most of the time I was really focused on
the artists. I could have arrowed it down for you. Yeah,
but that side.

Speaker 3 (53:23):
But viraled into like.

Speaker 1 (53:26):
Yeah, I just wanted I just wanted to test you.
How you didn't bring back to one of your family members,
like everybody was like he was. He just told me
point blank, I'd rather be spilled, you know, I'd rather
have spiel and a lot of his family member. No,
it's it's it's it's no right, wrong answer. But look,
I think I got the answer. So for everyone out

(53:48):
there in the audience listening in, like, okay, where can
they find out more about what you're doing? Would they
go to your Instagram page? They're like, hey, you know
what this guy's inspired me? I love, I don't know either.
It's coming up a film, the whole representation around so
the Asians, Muslim, Pakistani, Ori, Indian, and then you know,
they're like, hey, what's next? You know what's the best
place for them to go?

Speaker 3 (54:10):
I yeah, I mean, like I like, I mentioned like,
if if you want to follow my work, then I
think Instagram is the best way. It's where I post
I'm the most active in morn Ja Khan and then
the movie my my movie Mustache the Instagram page for
that which is Mustache Underscore movie as they follow those

(54:31):
and and yeah, reach out, like if you see the
movie and and you like it or you have thoughts
about it, like I love to talk to people about it.
And I love if you have questions, like you can
always like ask me and and I and I yeah,
I think I think what's great about movies is like

(54:51):
conversation and and and so yeah, I would, I would,
I invite the conversation, you know, like what what you like,
what you think was different, what you hope was different,
or whatever. Like I think it's all really interesting, especially
when it comes to film. And and I would and I
and I love that I had the opportunity to make
something that can be discussed. Yeah, I love it to

(55:16):
dream in a way, in a weird way.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you want to.

Speaker 3 (55:20):
Create something that like just makes people think about something.

Speaker 1 (55:24):
One hundred and I absolutely love it from my point
of view, and I think it's fantastic. It's It's definitely
made me think for many day, well a day, but
I never made me think of a night I was,
and I was like, I've got so many questions as well,
so it's really interesting. But thank for your time and
Ron just being on the show. I really appreciate it,
and being here on Rockers Avenue Radio part of iHeartRadio

(55:47):
and hopefully I have many more conversations and be inspired.

Speaker 3 (55:51):
Of course, thank you co on

Speaker 2 (56:15):
The world's most listen to South Asian radio and podcast network.