Fleetwood Mac Uncovered: A Beginner's Journey Through The Entire Catalog [Episode 336]

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From the Peter Green Blues era to the transitional chill
rock era of Bob Welch, to the legendary Buckingham Nick's
era and beyond. It's a trip through Fleetwood Mac history
with author Tim Durling. Next on Booked on Rock.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
To Rock and Roll. I mean I leave you you're
reading Little Hands says it's time.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
To rock and roll roll. I totally booked. Welcome back
to book don Rock the podcast for those about to
read and rock and Eric Sanitch make sure you give
the show a thumbs up and subscribe if you're a
fan of the show, and for those who already have,
thank you so much. Author Tim Durling is back on

(00:40):
the show his latest book titled The Sound that Haunts You,
A Beginner's Companion to Fleetwood Mac. Welcome back, Tim, Thanks
to you now. I am I'm loving the Bob Welch
era of Fleetwood Mac, which is I'm sure that's part
of the goal of this book.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
It's you know, yeah, it's just to introduce people to
albums and and like you said, eras that don't get
you know, the spotlight on them very much and thanks
for having me back. By the way, it's always a pleasure.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
By the way outstanding appearance on Pot of Thunder.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
You know what, that was the latest. I'll be honest
with you, that's the latest I've stayed up to record
because because of the time zones, it was it was
almost midnight by the time that we got started, and
I think you can I don't know, maybe it's just
because I could feel it, but I think if you
if you watch that, sometimes one of my eyes was

(01:34):
kind of going like a little because man, that was
way past my bedtime. But no, that was a lot
of fun. Those guys were a blast and I love
the I love the little theme song they came up
with for me, A seat of Oh Darling with the
Beatles It's O Darling. I thought that was quite inspired.
And yeah, no, those guys are great and it's always

(01:55):
it's always so much fun when you can you sit
in and you realize these guys are all good buds.
Like I could just tell there's there's just there's just
a chemistry there and.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
They made you feel comfortable and let you do a thing. Man,
you broke down.

Speaker 3 (02:08):
Don't Tell Me You.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
Love Me by Night Ranger, because that is one of
the many books that you have out is on Night
Ranger and yeah, I'm now listening to that song and
just thinking about all the things that you talk about,
the song structure and the performance and the way they
execute it and the whole thing. So it was just
really cool. I really enjoyed it.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
Yeah, I'd love to you know. Uh, I'll stay up
again if those guys want to have me on again.
That was a lot of fun. Yeah, it's been Yeah,
that was a that was a real pleasure hanging out
with those guys and uh yeah, I was just just
feel like I was scratching the surface because I'm coming
into it new and I'm okay, they got all these
features like and and and they all they know what
they're doing, and it's it's great, you know.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
Yeah, Chris Jericho is on the show these yeah, these
buds are those guys now this one on Fleetwood Mac.
Then you write about it in the book too. People
may be surprised to see a book from you on
Fleetwood Mac because you write about Night Ranger and Yan
T and Sammy Hagar. I remember the harder.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
Rock, yeah, a little bit, the harder the melodic hard
rock of the seventies and eighties, So yeah, This is
a little bit off the beaten path, but that's all
the more reason that I'm really happy with how this
came out. This I guess you could say that this
was a book. I wasn't planning on doing a book
on Fleetwood Mac. That never would have crossed my mind

(03:27):
because I tend to do books on bands that don't
have a lot of books written about them. You know,
I still don't think there are any other Night Range
of books or yan T books. There aren't. I don't
know if there's any other Sammy Hagar books that are
just on his solo career, and there's really not much
for Kansas either. This is different. I mean, Fleetwood Mac,

(03:47):
there have been books written about rumors just one album.
So what am I doing here?

Speaker 3 (03:53):
You know?

Speaker 2 (03:54):
Into the fray? But I'm really glad that it had
happened the way it did. My mother in law kind
of made a comment to me that, you know, Tim,
when are you gonna write me a Fleetwood Mac book?
And I don't think she was serious about it. She
loves Fleetwood Mac, but I don't think that she realized
that planet the seed and I got thinking about it
because the truth of the matter is and I explained

(04:15):
this in my introduction. It's still a band that I'm
relatively new to, like a band like you know, a
band like Y and T. I've been listening to for
over three decades. Fleetwood Mac is a band that obviously
I knew who they were, but they were just a
band that was on the radio. They weren't in my wheelhouse.
That's an overused term, but yeah, they just weren't on

(04:37):
my radar as a band to dig into. Nobody in
my family seemed to listen to them, you know, as
like older my parents, from aunts and uncles, like I know.
Rumors was such a huge album and it was practically
a household item at one point, but nobody in my
family seemed to listen to them. So I'm coming into
it as sort of when I really became aware of

(05:01):
them was Tangoing the Night in nineteen eighty seven, because
by then I was really following popular music. So about
twelve years ago, when my wife and I kind of
started dating, she was a huge I mean, she likes
to joke that she was listening to Fleetwood Mac in
the womb because her mum was such a big fan.
But they're one of her favorite bands too, and she
would be playing songs that I'd never heard before. One

(05:26):
that really got to me was was Never Going Back
Again from Rumors, which is an all acoustic song. And
I've like, like, Lindsey Buckingham never gets talked about in
the sort of the pantheon of great guitar players, but
he's a genius. I mean he's a genius arranger and
songwriter and producer and all of that, but his guitar

(05:47):
playing is he's like the thinking man's guitar hero or something. Yeah.
I couldn't. I couldn't get over it. I was like,
that is so good and he's singing that and he's
doing it live too, and like and I'm like, okay,
there's something year. And also I'd known for a few
years that you know, there were there have been several
Fleetwood macs. I mean, there have been several lives to

(06:08):
this band, because you know, I don't think the most
the average radio listener knows. You know that seventy five album,
the self titled one, that was their tenth album. Is
that amazing their worldwide breakthrough? Yeah, I mean they'd been
kicking around for a long time in one form or another.
I knew that, you know, I eventually I learned that

(06:29):
they started as a blues rock band. That's because of Aerosmith,
because when I bought in nineteen ninety one, Pandora's Box
was their box set came out, and because of the
order that I got into bands, Aerosmith were such a
you know, they were an old band, but they had
a second life, you know, they were they were they
they had such a big comeback with Permanent Vacation at Pump.

(06:52):
It just so happened. They were the first band that
I actively listened to that put a box set out,
so I bought it, and among the many other treasures
on there that had never been heard before is this
raw live take on a song called Rattlesnake Shake, Which
is funny because skid Row and Motley Crue both have
songs called Rattlesnake Shake. Now here's a completely different song

(07:13):
with that very unique title. You know, it's not like
hold On or without You. It's not like a song title,
you know, Rattlesnake Shake. That's pretty specific. Anyway, I'm listening
to this and I'm reading in the liner notes that
it's a Fleetwood Mac song, like Fleetwood Mac that doesn't
sound like Fleetwood Mac, And who's Peter Green? I was confused.

(07:35):
So I'm like, Okay, obviously there's a lot more to
this band and than this band has been around a
lot longer than I knew about. And a few years
after that, I got into led Zeppelin. And when you
start reading about the history of led Zeppelin, you're also
going to read about Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac. The early
years are going to read about songs like oh well
and and so that was sort of the seed planet

(08:00):
is on my peripheral, right, But once I once I
started listening to them sort of more in earnest. I've
never been somebody to pick up two or three albums
by a group. I have this thing where I like
to complete the collection. I want to hear it all.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
As we can tell by looking behind you.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah, it's a disease, no question about it. But I
definitely wanted to dig deeper into this band. I was very,
very interested in what you know, if their breakthrough came
with their tenth album, and rumors was the eleventh album,
well what came like what came before? That's a lot
of material to put out and in a short amount

(08:38):
of time. The first album came out in sixty eight,
so this is one of those bands that had, you know,
two albums a year sometimes, And so I thought, okay,
I'm going to take the approach to this book. I mean,
on the surface, it's very similar to my Sammy Hagar
book because it's just me. This one is just me.
It's not like it's not a panel discussion book. But

(08:59):
I thought, well, okay, if I was trying to tell
somebody how to get into a band like this, how
would I do it? Coming at it from the perspective
of somebody that grew up on hard rock music and
coming into a band that's got a little bit of everything. Really,
I don't really know how you just describe this band
because of all of these different genres and band members

(09:22):
and songwriting styles and you name it. So I thought, okay,
that's gonna be my approach. It's gonna That's why I
called it a Beginner's Companion instead of a listener's guide.
I guess it's kind of the same thing, but it's
more like if anybody out there has you know, rumors
or or the greatest hits or the dance and they think, well,

(09:43):
you know, maybe I'd like to go further, but you know,
you go on you know, you type in Fleetwood mac
albums online. It's a million. It looks like there's a
million of them. It's like, well, where do you even start?
So I thought, okay, I'm gonna go through, like I
do with my books, each studio album, all the songs
on them, what I think about each of these albums,
and then any songs that were sort of stray that

(10:03):
didn't belong to an album, we'll talk about those and
we'll see what happens. And I really I like how
it came out. I did the chapter, I did the
uh well, each chapter is an album, but I didn't
do them in chronological order. I jumped back and forth
with writing about each one because I did that on purpose,

(10:24):
because I didn't want it to sound like here's another one,
and here's another one and here's another one. I wanted
to be listening to a completely different album every time,
and I kept putting rumors back. I kept pushing it back.
I'll get to that. I'll get to that because was
the last one.

Speaker 3 (10:37):
Did right.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah. I was a little intimidated because what am I
going to write about such a such a huge album
that continues to sell and will. I mean, I've talked
about songs that will outlive us. All that album will
outlive us all. You know, somewhere, somebody somewhere in the
world right now is listening to Rumors in its entirety
for the first time, And so I tried to approach

(10:59):
it as that. It's like, I imagine hearing these songs
for the first time, because in a lot of cases,
I was hearing them for the first time twelve years ago.
I was not inundated with them. So yeah, so I
eventually I got to rumors, and I tried to put
myself in the position of, you know, this is an
album that's sold. I don't know, it's one of those
it's in the Diamond Album Club twenty six twenty seven

(11:21):
million albums or whatever worldwide. It really is good. I mean,
it really is one great song after another. So it's like,
imagine hearing it for the first time for those that
have heard that one to death. But not everybody's heard
Bear Trees, you know, not everybody's heard Mister Wonderful or
you know. So that was the goal. It was to

(11:42):
give each album it's due, and I really and what
like we were talking about. Anytime I do these books,
I got to do some serious listening. I have to
just drill the albums in so that I just know
them inside and out. And I gained such a new
appreciation for the Bob Welch era. That is the overlooked
era of Fleetwood Mac and it shouldn't be now. I

(12:04):
mean I say it's overlooked. A couple of those albums
eventually went gold and platinum, like a couple of them,
but you never hear songs from them on the radio,
which is a shame because there are several songs on
there that would you know, they would sound really good
on the radio and give you know, the the well
worn warhorses of songs a break now and then. But
that you know, we know that doesn't happen the state

(12:25):
of things. But but I want people to say, hey,
you know, let's check this, let's check this stuff out,
because they're you know, from seventy one to seventy four,
there's there's five albums, and you know, Bob Welsch was
like the creative spearhead behind it and if it you know,
he was the first American that was in the band,

(12:47):
and he literally, you know, convinced them to move to
the United States and that changed everything. But it's such
a good bridge between the blue stuff and the name,
you know, the music that the name Fleetwood Mac conjures
up in most people's minds because Fleetwood Mac is a
lot of things to a lot of people. If you

(13:07):
came of age in the late sixties and you were
a guitar player, mostly in the UK, but certainly there
were some fans in the US. I mean, like I said,
Aeros Joe Perry was a huge fan of this stuff,
so people were listening to it, just not a lot.
It was like a cult thing to people like that.
That's Fleetwood Mac, you know what I mean, That's what
Fleetwood Mac is. And the oh that's just that commercial

(13:28):
stuff that came after everybody comes in at different points.
But there's something there, really is something for everybody in
this band's catalog, and I think that people would be
surprised at the variety, you know, you're getting with each album.
You're getting several different styles on an album, I will say,
except for maybe the first two albums, those are pretty

(13:50):
much straight ahead blues blues rock with emphasis on blues.
But after that it's all over the place.

Speaker 1 (13:59):
That Peter green Tone you hear a lot about from guitarists.
In fact, Mike Campbell when they made the Tom Petty
the Heartbreakers made the Mojo album, he was really going
after that, Peter green Tone. Let's go back to the beginning,
the first who's in the lineup? In the beginning, the
first two albums are are with Or Actually the first
album has Bob running on bass on a.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
Couple of tracks long Gray Mayor. I think that might
be one of the only ones, and then a couple
other songs that weren't on an album. So yeah, John
McVie was like debating being in the band of where
of course he joined up, And my joke is that
Fleetwood Bob just doesn't have the same But yeah, Mick Fleetwood,
John mcveheer, of course, they're you know, the namesakes of

(14:42):
the band, and they're the constants throughout the entire career.
Everything revolved around them. But yeah, Peter green was, you know,
lead singer, lead guitarist, meant one of the main songwriters,
but he was. He's like a guitar hero for those
in the no I think more people know about him
now than even twenty years ago. You don't. You didn't

(15:04):
hear that much about him, right, you'd hear bits and pieces.
But I mean, Kirk Kamut from Metallica owns his gold
les Paul, which he nicknamed Greenee. You know that he
became quite close with Peter Green in his final years
before he passed away in twenty twenty, like they were
hanging out, which is kind of interesting. But and you

(15:27):
might be thinking, Okay, Metallica is a guitar player. Well,
I mean, look, anybody that's a Judas Priest fan knows
the Green Man Alishi with the two prong crown. That
is a Fleetwood Max song Peter Era. Yeah. And if
you listen to the original version of that from nineteen
sixty nine, and I would encourage any Priest fan to
do that. It's a heavy song for the time period.

(15:48):
I mean, it could have been on the first Sabbath album.
It's doomy and dark and menacing, and that's a Peter Green.
It's a Fleetwood Max song. Believe it or not, it's
a it's a head trip. It's a head trip because
there are lots of songs that you could play for
your average listener and say tell me who that is.
And now guess anybody but Fleetwood Mac.

Speaker 3 (16:10):
Jeremy Spencer.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
Jeremy Spencer was another. Yeah, he was in the earliest
incarnations of the band, and he did a lot of
the slide guitar work. And he was a young man
when he joined. I mean none of them were old,
of course, but I mean he was barely twenty when
that first album came out, and he sang like a
fifty year old bluesman from the American South, and here's
this British kid, but he's got that raspy blues voice.

(16:35):
And then you had, you know, yeah, so that was
the main lineup. But really starting with I think the
second album you had anytime the piano or whatever, there
was somebody named Christine perfect who played on that. She
wasn't credited, but of course she married John McVie. That's
Christine mcvee, and eventually, of course she became I think

(16:57):
a pivotal member of the band and like the sort
of dependable member of Fleetwood Mac as far as songwriting
and singing and you know, being a constant once she
was officially a member. But it's pure blues rock with
emphasis on blues and I'm very honest about it, and

(17:19):
I respect I respect the blues genre immensely because I
know that rock music as we know it wouldn't exist
if it wasn't for the blues. I just don't have
that much of an appetite to listen to straight blues.
I can a little goes a long way with me,
and I'm not my ear is not fine tuned enough

(17:39):
to pick out the differences, because when I was reviewing these,
especially the first two albums, there were times when I
really I had to check to see if a song
ended and another song started. It started to sound the
same to me. And that's just that's me being a
complete philistine to blues. And I know that. But starting
with the third album, and unfortunately it was the last

(18:01):
one Peter Green then Play On is an amazingly good album,
and it was them. They still had plenty of blues
in them, but they were changing and they were branching
out and it was starting to turn into something very
very special and not just another blues rock group.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
And they added a new member, Yeah, Danny Kerwin.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yeah, Danny Kerwin does not get enough credit because he
was in the band after Peter Green left. He was
in the band after Jeremy Spencer left, and he was
a good songwriter and a good singer, and his contributions
were very important to the band, and I wanted all
of these guys to get there, to get their due.
It's really weird how things turn out. You mentioned Mike Campbell.

(18:46):
I mean, the last time Fleetwood Mac toured, Mike Campbell
was in the band, so with.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
Neil Finn of Crowded House with Neil.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
Fin of Crowded House, and that's that's the second time
that they realized they needed two people to take the place.
So Lindsay Buckingham because he was such a singular, unique
personality and such a visionary figure in the in the
history of the band. And there's so many tangents to
go to go to. But that's why I wanted to
go album by album and not shoot back and forth

(19:16):
all over the place. So I really do think that
this if you wanted to listen to one of these albums,
read the chapter on it as you're listening to it,
and I think you'll get a pretty good idea of,
you know, what it's all about.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
That third album has Showbiz Blues, which is one of
the best Peter Green era.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
Songs Yeah and the and the ironic thing about.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
And Rattlesnakeshake is on that one.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
And the ironic thing is that you have to get
the deluxe version of them play on to get the
Green Man Aalishi and to get oh Well, which which
is which is by far the best known Fleetwood Max
song from that early era. I think a lot more
people know that song than know what it's called and
who does it because a ton of people have covered

(19:57):
oh Well. It's a great, great song. It influenced Black
Dog by led Zeppelin. That whole idea of the song
stopping and then starting again that was I've read that.

Speaker 3 (20:07):
The call and response.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yeah, Black Crows made a famous too.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
They did it with page, They did it with Page. Yeah,
Slash Slash did it not that long ago, Deep Purple
did it. Lots of people have done oh Well, it's
a heavily covered song, and and other thing that you know.
So this leads into one of my favorite parts of
doing this book. Once I got through all the albums,

(20:31):
I wanted to do something else to so that it
wasn't a really really short book. I said, I need
to add something to this, and there were a lot
of their songs, whether it's the early stuff like oh Well,
or you know, the the Buckingham Nick's era songs like
Landslide and Songbird and the Chain that tons of people

(20:51):
have covered. But I got thinking, I presented a challenge
to myself. I went out and tried to find and
I did one hundred different cover songs Fleetwood Mac songs
covered by one hundred different artists, one hundred different songs,
not fivers. And you talk about running the gamut that

(21:14):
spans just about every form of music, as I mentioned,
except hip hop and rap. I couldn't find any hip
hop or rap covers, although I'm sure some of their
songs must have been sampled over the years. There'd have
to have been. But I mean, there's reggae, there's country,
there's ambient, there's metal, there's R and B, like all

(21:35):
kinds of different things. And that's where I really had fun,
because what I did is I went in chronological order
of these cover songs. Didn't matter when the cover was done,
but when the original came out. So I went through
their entire discography again, this time via other people's interpretations
of their songs. And I wanted to make sure. There
were certain covers that I wanted to make sure and highlight.

(21:57):
One of them was Santana doing black Magic Woman, which, right,
most people think that's probably an original song. But guess what,
there's Peter Green again. The guy was a genius. I mean,
he he wrote songs that just people responded to over
and over again. But yeah, black Magic Woman is a

(22:17):
Fleetwood Mac song. If you listen to the original Fleetwood
Mac version, it's not that different. The only difference is
is that, of course Santana as that Latin flavor and
his version of black Magic Woman is a lot of
people just refer to it by the one title, but
it's actually two songs. It goes into a song called
Gypsy Queen by and I can't think of his name,
Gabor Sabo. I can't pronounce the name right, but when

(22:41):
the song starts to speed up, that's the second part
of the song. But there it is. I mean, there's
a Peter Green song, a top five song all over
the world, but not the Fleetwood Mac version, although they
were very big in the UK and a lot you know,
parts of Europe, Holland and things like that in their

(23:01):
earliest days. But so yeah, I go through the entire
it's almost all the way. No album is ignored. There's
at least one song from every one of the Fleetwood
Mac albums. I mean rumors. There's there's been tribute albums,
just two rumors. There's been a tribute album done just
for Tusk. So but I'm I tried to mix it up,

(23:24):
but I mean so of course, I've got Judas priest
list to doing the green Man Aalishi. I've also got
the first time that I ever heard the song the
chain was by the Canadian metal band Kick Acts.

Speaker 1 (23:38):
Because yeah, you heard that's a great version.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
They did a fantastic version of that on their third
album in nineteen eighty six called Rock the World, and
if you listen to it, it's faithful to the Fleetwood
Mac version, but it's heavy, it's but it's it's it's
so cool. And I remember thinking that, Okay, well that's interesting.
They're covering a Fleetwo Max song and it doesn't sound

(24:01):
like AM radio, you know what I mean. And then
I heard the Fleetwood macer is and I'm like, okay,
well that's pretty cool in its own right. They didn't
do a lot to it.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
My favorite Fleetwood Max song from the Peter Green era
is not on any album that's Albatross.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
Uh yeah, that's right, and that see Okay, now you're
leading into something. The hardest part for me of doing
this book was organizing all of those songs from the
sixty seven to sixty nine period that weren't on one
of the albums, because there were compilations that came out
in the UK that were different to what came out
in North America. There were songs that were were just

(24:37):
released as singles, and Albatross was one of those. So
their second album, Mister Wonderful, did not originally come out
in North America. Instead, they put out a compilation called
English Rose, which is like half of that album and
then a few other songs. But then in the UK
they got a compilation called The Pious Bird of Good

(24:59):
Omen which if you're a cult if you know Samuel
call Original, know where that came from or Iron Maiden
and it's similar but different. It really confusing. Then they
did that blues album in Chicago in nineteen sixty nine,
which is some covers, some originals with all of the
Chicago blues artists. It was really really complicated putting all

(25:21):
those together. But yeah, Albatross is an awesome instrumental.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
And it did really well on the charts.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
It was a number one song in the UK, and
and it was so big. I mean, people need to
realize how big they were in the UK. When the
Beatles were recording Abbey Road, I think the song we're
talking about a son king, But George Harrison said, Okay,
let's be Fleetwood Mac doing Albatross here. That's how that's

(25:49):
how well known they were. They influenced the Beatles for
crying out loud.

Speaker 3 (25:52):
That's how I praise so ye yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
So yeah, that's a great That is a great laid
back instrumental. I joke that was the first because there
are a few Fleetwood Max songs that come up on
the yacht rock playlist. I'm like Albatross is the first.
That's that would totally work? Sure sure that sounds like
that sounds like you're at the beach.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
Well, as we transition out of the Peter Green era,
I guess Showbi's Blues is a good clue as to
where Peter's head was at. That's he left because things
were getting a little too commercial or the band wanted
to get more commercial.

Speaker 2 (26:22):
Peter Green was an interesting guy. I mean he was
very obviously there were a lot of drugs. There was
la I mean the green Man leash She is Destroyed
is inspired by a bad LSD trip that he was on.
But he's very spiritual. He felt that money was evil
and he'd never really I don't think he ever really
sought the fame that he could have had, you know
what I mean, like if he'd really gone for it.

(26:44):
Because people that know know how great he was. I
mean Gary Moore did an entire I think tribute album
to him called Blues for Greenie, so he was a
big fan. He just inspired so many guitar players, and
yet he's not an name that's on every guitar player's lips,
or it would be recognizable, or you'd think, you know,

(27:05):
when you say, well, who's the guitar player in Fleetwood
Mac Well, Lindsay Buckingham, you know, you just don't think
of him. So Jeremy Spencer, Danny Kerwin even Less and
Bob Welch, I mean Bob Welch had a couple of
solo hits later on the seventies, one of which is
actually a Fleetwood Mac song. Will reimagined. But yeah, people

(27:26):
just don't talk about Peter Green as much as they should.
But yeah, he was really conflicted and I often wonder,
you know, what would happen if he'd just stuck around
a little bit longer. You know, I don't think his genre,
his version of Fleetwood Mac would have coalesced with the
Buckingham Next era. But you know, every incarnation of Fleetwood
Mac did o well in concert, which is pretty cool.

(27:48):
I mean, Bob Welch did it, Lindsay Buckingham did it.
There's some great live versions of that. You know, it
survived all the way through. That's the one song of
that era that they I think consistently did on a
nightly basis when they were on tour. But yeah, he left,
you know, just as they were, and it probably was

(28:10):
a shock to the band because they weren't struggling, they
were ascending. And so you end up with a very
confusing album I think called Kilmhouse, which is the fourth
album came out in nineteen seventy. That's an interesting one
because that's right in between Peter Green and Bob Welsch.
So you've got Jeremy Spencer and Danny Carowin and it

(28:32):
is literally all over the place. Stylistically, it's all over
the place, and it's nowhere near as focused or as
good as then play on. But then they get Bob Welch,
and you know whether or not the album sales were there,
they had a run of really good albums. So Future Games,
Bear Trees, Penguin, Mystery to Me and Heroes are hard

(28:55):
to find. Those are all really solid albums with Bob
Welsh at the hell, especially Bear Trees. I think that
one's my favorite of the of the bunch.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
Yeah, that might be my favorite, although now I'm starting
to lean towards the one with Hypnotized on it, which
is Mystery to Me.

Speaker 2 (29:09):
Well, Hypnotized is an amazing song.

Speaker 3 (29:13):
Amazing song.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
I think people that it did get a little FM
airplay in the later seventies, and that song it pops
up once in a while. But again it's one of
those things where it's like it doesn't necessarily sound like
Fleetwood Max, so people don't realize who it is. But
when you listen to that and realize this is there's
no pro tools, there's no AI. That is Mick Fleetwood

(29:36):
doing like five minutes. Oh, he just keeps it's just
the song is what it sounds like. It is hypnotic,
It keeps a pulse and it just takes into this world.
That's oh, it's such a cool song.

Speaker 1 (29:52):
That's what's fun. It's fun to listen to that rhythm
section of Mick and John. It's a great rhythm section.

Speaker 2 (29:58):
They always played just what the songs needed, and there
and and new when not to play. I have a DVD.
I've had it for quite a while now, but there
was a UK series that came out called the just
called Classic Albums, and they would do a documentary on

(30:19):
a particular album. Yeah, and so I've got the Rumors
one among others, and they isolate John mcviee's bassline from
Go Your Own Way in the chorus, and it is awesome.
It's it's it's a it's a hook unto itself. You
don't really notice it unless you point it out, and
then when you hear that chorus, it wouldn't be the

(30:41):
same without it. It just it is totally locked in.
But it's it's it's very melodic. It's its own. It's
not doing what the guitar is doing, doing what a
bass should do. It's it's counterpoint. So but yeah, great,
great and and and through all of those stylistic changes,
those two have always found just the right thing to play.

Speaker 1 (31:03):
I would call the Bob Welcher a chill rock.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
Very much so, and I just love it. Yeah, I've
described I don't know what it is, and it's sadly
Bob Bob Welch. You know, his life ended quite tragically
about thirteen years ago.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
That's a mental health mental illness seems to be that.
That's a story that runs through the Fleetwood Mac history.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
That is a running theme for sure.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
Jeremy Spencer leaves the band abruptly for a religious call
for a religious cult. Danny Kerwin, he's got mental health problems.
He's he ends up leaving the band and becoming an
alcoholic and doesn't do much of anything, and he's almost I.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
Think he's homeless at one point. Yeah, yeah, very very sad.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
I think Peter Green had some mental health problems. I
don't know how to the extent. But and then Bob Welch,
which is just very sad. He committed suicide. And just
as watching YouTube clip of Stevie Nicks when when he
did take his own life and she was just shocked
like I didn't.

Speaker 3 (32:05):
I didn't.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
She's she's like to get to that point where you're
that miserable with your life. I just don't understand. I
don't know what happened.

Speaker 2 (32:12):
My my understanding was that he found out that I
don't know what it was that he was diagnosed with,
but basically he was going to be I don't even
know if they used this terminy, but an invalid like
he wouldn't be able to take care of himself.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
He went in for spinal surgery and it was unsuccessful.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
And he left a note to his wife. He did
not want his wife to be burdened with taking care
of him. Very sad.

Speaker 1 (32:33):
It's very sad, like a nine page note.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
Yeah, but Bob Welch had this ability. And I say
it in the book, and I don't mean as an insult,
but I can't think of any other way to say it.
He sings like he's asleep, right like, he sings like
he's in this dream state. And usually he's mixed way back,
so you really have to lean in to hear what

(32:55):
he saying. But it works so well, especially on a
song like Hypnotized. But but future Games the Ghosts, there's
so many songs that just and it's really interesting because
I mean, he wrote songs like born Enchanter and like
it would have been interesting to see what a Fleetwood
Mac featuring Bob Welch and Stevie Nicks would have been like,

(33:16):
because it seems like they were in they they wrote
in that same mystical kind of lyrical style.

Speaker 3 (33:23):
Would have been fun.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
But yeah, there are great songs on those albums, and
not just his songs either, like Kerwin came up with
some great great songs and Christine, like Christine's got songs
like I remember when she passed away, which is, you know,
another tragedy, but we're almost coming up in three years
as we're filming this. When she passed away, the song

(33:45):
that I saw posted a lot, and they were always
saying that this was the song that showed how she
had potential to write hit singles was again from Bear Tree,
Spare Me a Little of Your Love, Like that song
wouldn't have sounded out of place on the self tie rumors.
She just wrote good songs and it didn't really matter
else was in the band. But I mean, you know,

(34:07):
but then, even in the midst of their huge world
conquering period. You've got tusk and tusk to me to Fleetwood,
Mac is what the Elder is to kiss. It was
more successful, but it's like the album that some people
really like it, some people don't like it at all.

(34:27):
And that was an album that when I got into
the band, I was always very intrigued to get into
because they're coming up on the heels of an album
that was already successful. Rumors was already like three four
million sold in its time. They're following it up and
they come up with this unconventional double album twenty songs,
and Lindsey Buckingham was basically given the middle finger to

(34:49):
the industry saying we're not gonna give you Rumors Volume two.

Speaker 3 (34:53):
You want that, We're gonna give you the complete opposite.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
We're gonna give you the complete opposite. Now, I say
that he thought that way. He wanted to do that.
He wanted to explore, like he was into Talking Heads
and Elvis Costello and the Clash, and he was really
into the punkin new Wave. I think that Christine and Stevie,
so you know, the main writers in the band, I
think they just came up with a batch of songs
the way they would for any other album. But you've

(35:19):
got the mixture of the fairly conventional songs from those
two and then you've got stuff like the Ledge and
not that funny. And I know I'm not wrong. It's
a really I really enjoy Toss, but I would love
to have been a fly on the wall at Warner
Brothers when they play the album in its entirety and

(35:40):
it's like, here it is, here's your million selling band.
Promote it, you know, do something with it.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
What do you think of Buckingham nixt You call that
the lost other Fleetwood mac album with a question mark?

Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yeah, that was a great bit of serendipity on my
part because I started this book long before this got
finally an official reissue after what forty two years, like
one of the best known albums that had never been
officially reissued. There'd been plenty of like gray market reissues
of it. I think it's the first time it was

(36:15):
officially released on CD at least, but I mean plenty
of people knew about it. And the way that I
described that album is if you know you had friends over,
if you had a bunch of people over for dinner
and you're just kind of sitting around and you put
some music on. You could put that album on and
people would just go, oh, that's Fleetwood Mac. I just
don't know these songs. It's not you're missing you're missing

(36:39):
the rhythm section. You know, you're missing Christine, but it's there,
you know. And I always think those two were better
together no matter what their issues were, when they worked together,
you couldn't duplicate it. And that was a perfect segue
that I mean, it's just perfect serendipity where Bob Welch

(37:02):
convinces the band to move to California so that they're
you know, where Warner Brothers is there, you know, they
can get their labels attention a lot easier than being
in England. And Mick Fleetwood is talking to Keith Olsen,
who produced the Buckingham Next album, not even looking for players.
He was looking for a studio, I think, and Olsen

(37:24):
plays in the song Frozen Love, and Fleetwood was like,
who's that guitar player? I want that guitar player. So
Fleetwood Mac might not have continued much longer, because yes,
the music industry allowed bands to keep trying for a while,
but after nine albums, I would think that you know,
even back then, a label would be like, I don't
think this is gonna work.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
Yeah, that Welch had problems with the record label or
were they changing labels. There was some reason that Heat
left that he wasn't happy with the future of the
band contractually, and then there was this fake Fleetwood Mac
band that the manager was going to try to put
out there.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
That's another story unto itself, and a fascinating one. And
there was a lot going on with seventy three seventy four.
The funny thing is is that most people, most average
Fleetwood macfans kind of know the story of the drama
with Lindsay and Stevie, with John and Christine with Stevie
and Mick with you know whatever, the whole thing, right.

(38:25):
But the odd thing is is that was their most
stable lineup once once Lindsay and Stevie joined, that was
their most stable line because the fact that it was
successful kept it together, I think, you know, also, I
mean creatively it was great. Obviously it was creative. That's
what led to the success. But up until then, just
about every album had a different lineup because you had

(38:47):
a guitar player named Bob Weston come in after Kirwin left. Well,
he has an affair with mixed wife Jenny Jenny Boyd
by the way, who was the sister of Patty Boyd. Yeah,
so you know, so you read about that and you
go down all these rabbit holes, like suddenly it makes
a lot of sense, but anyway, or does.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
It lots and makes a story of fleetd maack so
fascinating the history of this band, But.

Speaker 2 (39:11):
There was already plenty of drama before Lindsay and Stevie
came along. It's just you didn't hear about it, right
because they weren't. They weren't a high profile band.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
You were not on Warner Brothers.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
They were. They were Oh yeah, they were on Warner
Brothers from then, play on, Onward, Reprise, Warner, all the
same kind of thing. Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. In the
early days, it was confusing because in the UK they
were on this label called Blue Horizon. They came out
in North America on CBS and yeah, and then Warner

(39:40):
reissued them. And but seventy three, seventy four, yeah, they
put the album Penguin out, which had that singer Dave
Walker for on a couple of songs who came from
Savoy Brown, who sounded nothing like he belonged in Fleetwood.
Mac He was a raspy blues singer and if Black
Sabbath fans know that name, he was the guy that

(40:01):
was in Black Sabbath for like a second in nineteen
seventy eight when Ozzie briefly left before Never Say Die.
So you can see like a BBC clip of them
doing I don't know, I'm not up on my Sabbath,
but I think one of the songs that ended up
on Never Say Die with this Dave Walker on fold
while he was in Black Sabbath for a second, so

(40:22):
and then he didn't last. It was just constant and
they weren't getting anywhere, you know, really commercially. The albums
were charting higher every time, I think probably because they
just kept putting them out. But yes, there was a situation,
and I think the Bob Weston Jenny Boyd Fleetwood situation
had much to do with it. Mick did not want

(40:42):
a tour, but their manager, Clifford Davis, who my understanding
was a real snake of a manager sounds like it,
already had a tour booked. So he put these guys
together that were in an English band called Stretch and
put them on tour as Fleetwood Mac.

Speaker 3 (41:02):
Or as the new Fleetwood Mac.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
I don't know how it was built exactly, but the
odd thing about that is that this band, Stretch, eventually
recorded a cover of show Biz Blues, and I mentioned
that where I talk about all the cover versions. Now
I'm excited to hear this, and I'm giving a plug
to another author because recently on my show. I don't

(41:25):
know if you've talked to him or not, but a
guy named Steve McClain. No, he's from the UK. He's
actually a stand up comedian, but he's also an author,
and he put an excellent book out called Stealing Deep Purple,
which is about original lead vocalist Rod Evans putting together
a version of Deep Purple in nineteen eighty and touring

(41:46):
North America before it got shut down by management. It's
a story that I used to think was fake, but
it's not. It actually happened, and it's a great read.
I would highly recommend getting Steve stev On. But Steve's
also working on a book on the fake Fleetwood Mac
and I can't wait.

Speaker 3 (42:04):
To read it. Wow.

Speaker 1 (42:06):
Okay, So then hopefully when he's doing the press run
for that he's going to be coming out.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
I can, I can, I can connect you with him
after these do but but yeah, it made me think
of that because that deep purple thing is just fascinating.
Anytime you have these these clandestone uh you know these.
I mean nowadays, it's not such a big deal. I
mean at one point, how many versions of La Guns
and Rat and the Bullet Boys or whatever I meant White? Yeah,

(42:32):
like even now it's like the ghost of Jack west
Russell's Great White you know is still is still touring.
But anyway, yeah, whatever the reason Bob Welts left. And
the first thing he did was he formed a band
called Paris and I think they did two albums on

(42:52):
Capitol Records.

Speaker 3 (42:53):
It was a three man band.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
Yeah yeah, and one of the band members I want
to say his name was Glenn Cornick. He was original
basis for Jethro Tull something like that. And then he
went solo and on his first album, which I think
was called French Kiss, he redes his song Sentimental Lady,
which is originally on the Bear Trees album, but he
redoes it has a top ten hit with it. Most

(43:17):
people would know that song, whether the title does anything
to them or not. I think mellow gold Am. You
know it's a yacht rock saple now. But actually his
version of Sentimental Lady is almost more Fleetwood Mac because
I think John and Mick play on it. You can
hear Christine playing his day on the chorus, and I
think Lindsey produced it and he might have played on it.

Speaker 3 (43:39):
You mentioned that in the book, So obviously.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
There was never any bad blood there. And actually there's
a really cool clip of Bob Welch playing and I
think it's been released at the Roxy in Los Angeles
in nineteen eighty one. There's a really great version of
him doing Hypnotized. I think John mcviee's playing with him
and Christine. I don't know. He had a bunch of
the Fleetwood Mac. So there was never any bad blood there. No.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
There was that brief pory though, in he wasn't invited
into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and he
thought they omitted him, but it was the rock Hall
that said they didn't want him, but they wanted Kerwin in,
they wanted Spencer in, but they don't want Bob Welchin.
That's politics.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
I hate that organization so much. But anyway, they screw
up on every turn.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
But they made amends. And I think Mick backstage at
one of the shows Fleetwood Mac shows, Bob Welch was
there and Mick explained, He's like, Bob, that wasn't our
call man. We wanted you there and they had. There
was also royalties. They renegotiated a deal with the Fleetwood
Mac albums and Bob Welch was a little pissed off
because he says, how come I didn't know about this
and the rest of the guys were getting a bigger

(44:44):
percentage of the the publishing and he wasn't. But they
made amends. Everything was cool.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
It's a familiar story. But the nice thing is that
I think it's mystery to me. Eventually went gold, which
is good. That's probably because of Hypnotized But Bear Trees
went platinum eventually, and I, as I say in that chapter,
it couldn't happen to a nicer album.

Speaker 3 (45:07):
Great album.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
It's a great album.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
Dust Kirwin Has Kirwin has the title track, and Dust.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
And Child of Mine is a great song, gets good
Sunnyside of Heaven. I mean, they did great instrumentals. They
did like Earl Gray on on on Kiln House. I
think use future games. I see the albums are so
close together. I get them mixed up without without looking
it up. And thank goodness, I wrote it all that.

Speaker 3 (45:35):
I'll check but I'll check here.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
Yeah, yes, it's on kill Nose. It's a Kirwin song. Yeah,
the Bob Well share of Needs needs revisited for sure,
and and the other thing. And I make mention this
several times. Fleetwood Mac also had a run of some
of the worst album covers of any good band I
can think of. So do not let those album covers

(45:57):
throw you. I think the worst one is that heroes
are hard to find. That is a rough album cover.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
There's there's one where Nick is looking little emaciated on
the cover.

Speaker 2 (46:09):
That's mister Wonderful and he's actually if you fold that out,
he's naked behind some foliage. He had no problem dropping
trial for the camera or dressing in drag. If you
look at the English Rose comp uh, interesting, it's well
bear trees. Bear Trees is at least literal.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
Yeah, it's literal, and it's like it's like the cure.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
It does look Yeah, that's true. Yeah, it's very minimal minimalist,
but yeah, like it's it's an it's a really fascinating
catalog and it's also really good.

Speaker 3 (46:40):
I mean it is.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
There's a few albums I'm not very partial to, but
for the most part I can find some highlights and
some songs that I would say, you know, go check
these songs out if nothing else. But again, you know,
the the great thing and the thing that I hope
happens with this is that, like all of my books,
if people come back to me and say, I was
never really way into their catalog, but now I'm listening

(47:02):
to more of the albums. I've ordered a couple. That's
always what I like to hear when when when people
get into this. So yeah, I really I really like
how it came out, and I'm really glad that my
mother in law half halphazardly kind of mentioned it because
I never would have gone down this road.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
And by the ways, in your wife's name, Sarah.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
It is it's what spelled. It's spelled with an H,
whereas the Fleetwood Max song isn't. But yeah, and that's boy,
you talk about a powerful song.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
Hey, guys, thanks so much for checking out the Booked
on Rock podcast. If you've just found the podcast, welcome.
If you've been listening, thank you so much for your support,
and make sure you tell a friend, a family member,
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(47:57):
tune in, and on YouTube music. You can check out
the full episodes on video, along with video highlights from
episodes on the Booked on Rock YouTube channel. Find it
at Booked on Rock. Thanks again for listening. Now back
to the show. The title of the book, The Sound
that Haunts You A Beginner's Companion to Fleetwood Mac Tim
Durling the author, and he is here to talk about

(48:18):
the book. But yeah, let's kind of skip ahead because
we did cover Rumors. We did cover Tusk a little bit,
but Sarah, which is off of Tusk, Tusk, Sarah not
that funny, think about me. Sisters of the Moon Angel
were the singles from that album, but they returned with

(48:38):
Mirage in nineteen eighty two, which I remember well as
a kid because that was the early MTV era. And
I remember the video for hold Me, which is one
of my favorite songs. And this is an interesting album because,
as you say, it gets the short end of the
stick YEP from this era of the band.

Speaker 2 (48:52):
It's a great album. I mean, it's a really it's
a really solid Fleetwood Mac album. It's probably the am
that Warner Brothers would have preferred to have gotten in
nineteen seventy nine. It's a fairly conventional Fleetwood Mac album,
but it's really good. I mean, yeah, hold Me is
a great song. Gypsy quickly became a Fleetwood Mac standard.

(49:14):
I mean that's you know, that's the Stevie Nicks persona
in one song right there. But Mirage came out at
a very interesting time because the big thing that happened
the year before is that Stevie put out Belladonna, her
first solo album, and something happened that very rarely happens.
When someone goes solo from a band, they actually become

(49:34):
bigger than the band that they're in. Not overall, but
Belladonna sold twice as many copies as Mirage sold, which
is we're talking about four million to two million. We're
talking into the millions, right. It didn't sell as many
as rumors. But Stevie Nicks became a major rock star
in the eighties in her own right, which most basically

(49:56):
there was her and Phil Collins, and I mean you
could say Ozzy ozy Born too. But most of the time,
these people that go solo don't have those successful careers.
I mean, even Steve Perry and Lou Graham had one
album that was really big and that was it. David
Lee Roth, he didn't sustain a solo career.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
That gave her leverage over lindsay that, and I'm sure
ultimately that's why she's still in the band and he's out.
They basically said, She's basically said to them, it's either
him or me.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
Well, she probably became the most the singularly most popular member.

Speaker 3 (50:30):
Of She's in the rock hall as a solo artist.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
Yeah, yeah, and and deservedly so. But but yeah, I
mean so the song straight Back on Mirage talks a
lot about that. That's about her kind of being pulled
for She's got this new career now, and then you know,
I mean, obviously these people were able to coexist and
do both, right. I mean, if you think about you know,
Phil Collins and Genesis and Mike and the Mechanics. I mean,

(50:55):
they had the chart domination through most of the eighties
and the early nineties. But but yeah, that was a
major change shift in power because Lindsay also put a
solo album that year, uh, law and Order. He had
a great hit from a trouble, great song and that
was an early MTV And if you watch the video

(51:15):
to that song, Bob Welch is in it, Mick Fleetwood's
in it like it's it's it's kind of funny. But
but the album.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
Was Holiday Road from Holiday Road a lot.

Speaker 2 (51:23):
Of I didn't realize that was him until until until
Sarah and I and I'm like, oh, that song okay,
And then I listened to it. I'm like, well, of
course it's him. It sounds like him. I just didn't
wasn't thinking. But uh yeah, the dynamics and and and leverage,
like you said, But Mirage overall has got some great
album tracks on it, like Empire State, I love Eyes

(51:46):
of the World. No, yeah, eyes of the World. I
kept thinking, I kept thinking that's Rainbow, but yes, that's
a different song by Rainbow. But yeah, there's great songs
on that album, and it doesn't get the attention that
it should and.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
Loving Store is a good one too, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
Love and Store was a minor hit. It was a
good again again Christine.

Speaker 1 (52:05):
When did Christine do her solo? She had got a
hold on me, which is.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
That was eighty Yeah, great song, fantastic song. Yeah, yeah
she did that. Yeah that was eighty four. So they're
you know, Fleetwood Mac were sort of so yeah. So
this is what I was saying at the beginning, Like
when I started really listening to the radio was tail
end of eighty four and eighty five. So the first
few songs I would have heard were like Christine's song,

(52:30):
and then I remember Lindsay had go Insane, and then
of course you know Stevie with stand Back and Edge
of seventeen and stopped dragging my heart around, and then
she had talked to me and I can't wait. So
I knew those songs, and then when Tangle and the
Night came out, because believe it or not, I mean
I talk about this in the book. I'm not so
sure that I knew any of those Fleetwood Mac songs

(52:53):
prior to hearing them in later years. I don't think
I heard the stuff from rumors when it was out.
I mean, I would only been three when that album
came out, but the radio was always on. I just
don't it just doesn't click in. But the song that
I do remember hearing from those early years is say
You Love Me. But as I say in my introduction,

(53:15):
I'm not sure what version of that song I was
hearing because back in the seventies, and I think I've
talked about this before, but Canadian radio and television from
like nineteen seventy seventy one onward, there was the CANCN ruling,
which meant that Canadian broadcasters had to average thirty percent
Canadian content throughout their broadcast day by law, and to

(53:41):
make sure that Canadian artists got played well. What ended
up happening a lot. Unfortunately, by the end of the seventies,
it wasn't so common anymore, but it used to be.
If you go back and look at old charts, it's
kind of blatantly obvious that this. Producers and labels would
get Canadian singers to record American or British pop songs

(54:01):
in the hopes that radio stations would play their version
so it would classify as half can con So I'm
not sure if I was hearing Say You Love Me
by Fleetwood Mac back in the late seventies on the radio,
or if I was hearing a version that was done
by a singer songwriter from actually my home province of
New Brunswick named Shirley Iicard, because she did a version

(54:22):
of that too, which was a little which was very,
very similar. So I can't I was too.

Speaker 3 (54:28):
I was too.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
It's too far back in the memory banks for me
to remember that. And I mentioned that when I talk
about the cover versions because I think that people need
to realize that she also wrote her own song. So
Shirley Iicard passed away a few years ago, but her
rent money was paid because a song that she wrote
called something to Talk About became a top five single

(54:50):
for Bonnie Rait, so she could write her own songs.
But yeah, that may be the version of say You
Love Me. I heard it, so it might not have
been until like Big Love and Seven Wonders and Little Lies,
that I was hearing Fleetwood Mac.

Speaker 1 (55:03):
That's another cool part of the book, going back again
Fluetwood Mac undercover. People can check out all those cover versions.
But you entered on Tango in the Night and that
album is stacked love it. That's such a great album
that has big Love, seven Wonders, which it's just phenomenal everywhere,
Caroline Tango in the Night, Little Lies, I mean that

(55:25):
right there, that's a handful of.

Speaker 3 (55:27):
Those are huge hit singles.

Speaker 2 (55:29):
It's a great, great album. And even if you get
the deluxe version, the thirtieth anniversary version, their song, there's
about seven extra tracks down Endless Street, Ricky. They were great.
They were on a creative role, or at least Lindsay was.
Apparently that album started off life as a Lindsay solo
album that was going to be his second solo album.

(55:51):
They basically begged him to graft it on right and
as we know, he left before the band went on tour.
But what a great album. And I was talking about
this on another show. The production on that album does
not sound dated and it is like high fidelity, like
it is just pristine production, not a note out of place.

(56:13):
And I think I described Little Lies as like three
and a half minutes of pop perfection. It just doesn't
get better. You can't get an earworm better than that,
I mean, and the arrangements. Lindsay Buckingham was so missed
on the two albums that followed.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
I mean it just what a bizarre period too.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
Yeah, that is it was such a blow to them creatively.
Even though you had Stevie and Christina were capable singers
and songwriters, it was Lindsay's production and arrangement, know how
that elevated those songs from good to great.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
You hear the difference like a nineteen nineties behind the Mask.
They have Saved Me on there, and it's like you're
listening to Fleetwood Mac, but it almost feels like a
Fleetwood Mac band in a way. It's it's something there's
something off about it. It's a good the songs are good,
but there's something missing.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
There save Me as a great song that could have
been on That could have been on Tango in the Night.
Think the cool thing about that song.

Speaker 3 (57:12):
Is Guy's the Limit is the other one that?

Speaker 2 (57:15):
Yeah, that was the other is It's see. I write
about that album a lot. I think that there are
some good songs on that album, but it's the one
that came out after that that most people don't even
know about it.

Speaker 3 (57:27):
Oh my god, because that was.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
That was a black hole in their career. Is the
album time that came out in nineteen ninety five, which,
as i've that's.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
Like twilight Zone, Like did that really happen?

Speaker 2 (57:37):
I've said many times. But by the time that.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
Album, by the way, Rick Veto and Billy on behind
the Mask.

Speaker 2 (57:44):
Perfectly capable singers and songwriters, right.

Speaker 1 (57:47):
But they were only on Oh no, okay, so Burnett's
on the next one.

Speaker 2 (57:52):
Time Burnett came down. Yeah, Burnett came back because he
was out of the band. He came back after that
album was like halfway recorded. That's why. That's why Michael Thompson,
who's a well known studio guitarist, is on some of
the tracks. It's a strange period.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
We got to talk about time nineteen ninety five.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
I was working in radio. By this point, I didn't
know Fleetwood Mac had an album out. That's how that's
how under the radar it was.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
And they played at Toad's Place in New Haven, Connecticut,
which is like two thousand people. I'm pretty certain that
they played at that tour.

Speaker 3 (58:28):
They came and played in front of a couple of
thousand people.

Speaker 2 (58:30):
Well, I do know that they were down to playing
multi act bills, which they had never had to do. Yeah,
so that's yeah, their star had fallen.

Speaker 1 (58:39):
Off, but like Stephen Nick said, to the credit of
Mick Fleetwood, and that's his baby, that's his band. He
was going to keep it going no matter what, and
he did. Christy mcvee, Dave Mason, Billy Burnett, John McVie, mcfleetwood,
and Becca Bramlett.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
Becca Bramlett yeh, daughter of Delaney and Bonnie Bramlett.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
I mean it is just so real, and you think,
Dave Mason, you plug in in there on paper, You're thinking, Hey,
this is gonna be interesting.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
It's got one song. I think it's called blow by
Blow That's okay?

Speaker 1 (59:08):
Is it okay? I gotta listen to it again. I
tried listening to it once and I couldn't.

Speaker 2 (59:12):
It's I find in a rough listen. There's one song
on there and I mentioned this in the book. There's
one song on there that I think is okay, and
it's one of Christine's songs.

Speaker 3 (59:21):
Which one, Oh, I don't.

Speaker 2 (59:23):
I don't want to give it all away now, I do.
Was the song that charted, that hit number sixty two
in Canada, and I think it's the only where it
charted anywhere in the world.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
So we'll let people read the book to find out.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
That's not the one. There is actually a pretty good
song there, but for the most part, it's very generic,
very country, and ultimately does not sound like Fleetwood Mac.
It could have been any number of Nashville up and comers,
like outside songwriters of putting songs in which never happened before.
They were always a self contained band. Christine had one

(59:55):
foot out the door, Lindsay was long gone, Stevie was
long gone, Veto was long gone. Burnett, like I said,
came back. So they were recording it with outside guitar players.
They grafted Dave Mason, who was in Traffic and a
solo artist in his own right into It was a
weird lineup, weird, very weird lineup. And I don't know
this for sure, but I mean, as you know, the

(01:00:18):
nineties were the time of reunions of Kiss and the Eagles.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
And should have been Van Halen with Dave. I think that, yeah,
that should have happened.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
I think that the Fleetwood Mac lineup that got back
together for the dance, I think that would have happened.
But I think the reason that happened when it did
is because Warner Brothers said to Mick. Look, I don't
care what you gotta do. You get the best Stone
lineup back together, or you're off the label. Because that
album disappeared. It had a worldwide peak of forty seven

(01:00:51):
in the UK. This is Fleetwood Mac we're talking about here.
I mean, that's how under the radar, that's how like
it's like a black hole, like it's it's yeah, it's
like did this actually exist? Like anybody could have put
an album and stuck Fleetwood Mac on the cover and yeah,
it's it's not a good album. I've not I've yet
to run into someone that actually likes that album.

Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
It may happen, Yeah, that's my favorite might, but.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
I have yet to meet that person who knows.

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
See, to me, those are the fascinating periods of a
band where they agree he's right past it on the
VH one, behind the music, But I want to know
what was going through their minds.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
Like, great, a great, great quote from a guy. I'm
sure you know he's he's an author. Chuck Klosterman. Oh yeah, yeah,
fire rock City and yeah, really Chuck was talking about
Kiss and he said, and this is so true, it's stuck.
It's stuck. He said, if you. If you like a band,
you're interested in the high points in their career. But

(01:01:48):
if you love a band, you want to know about
the low points. You want to know when the wheels
are coming off. You want to know about music from
the Elder. You want to know about sant Anger, you
want to know about Time. That's the Fleetwood Mac entry
and rock in a hard Place, you know, like it's
it's uh man, oh man. I mean I was thinking

(01:02:10):
about this and it's like, can you imagine if if
the reunion couldn't happen for some reason, Fleetwood Mac could
have been releasing albums on CMC, they could have been
knocked down to the indie labels. That's how, that's how.
That's how amazingly this album bombed like it was just
just a perfect bomb of an album. It just so

(01:02:32):
you listen to Behind the Mask, and then you you
listen to Time, then you listen Behind the Mask. Behind
the Mask is a masterpiece compared to Time. But the
other the thing about Behind the Mask that I remember
this well long before I was a fan, that was
in the delete bins, like within months. I remember seeing
back when CDs still came in long boxes, racks upon

(01:02:54):
racks of this album because it's Fleetwood mac Right, Warners
would have pressed a ton of them. And the interesting
thing about that we were talking about save Me, which
I think is a great song far and away the
saving grace of that album. That song only peaked at
thirty three in the US on on the Billboard Hot
one hundred. For some reason, it went all the way
to number seven up here in Canada. Well, that was

(01:03:15):
that big song for them, And if they'd had two
or three more songs that did that, it might have
been a different story. Yeah, you know what I mean.
But but the loss of Lindsay Buckingham hit them.

Speaker 3 (01:03:25):
Oh and then Ste's gone.

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
Yeah, but just having that, know how, because what would
happen is the songs that Stevie contributed to that album
were generally good songs, but they just sounded like songs
from one of her solo albums.

Speaker 3 (01:03:38):
Yeah, it needed the.

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
Glue, It needed Lindsay and it was a you know,
what are you gonna do? He just want to you know,
he didn't want to tour. It's it's amazing that he
stuck around as lung as he did. But yeah, it
would have left fleet you know, Mick Fleetwood in a
very awkward, precarious position.

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
Right, Hey, guys, we'll get back to the show, but
first I want to tell you about an exclusive deal
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(01:04:18):
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Go to old glory dot com. Make sure to use
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Speaker 3 (01:04:24):
Booked on Rock.

Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
Also find a link in this episode show notes, or
just go to Booked on Rock dot com and click
on my deals. Are you surprised it took that long
for them to put out another studio album, because that
wasn't Say You Will wasn't until two thousand and three,
ninety seven. You had the Dance that was most that
was all live, but with there were some new songs.

Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
There were four new songs on You Great.

Speaker 3 (01:04:46):
Great album. I love the new songs I wish which
some of.

Speaker 1 (01:04:50):
Them they put on on Say You Will, right, the
ones just Bleed Blue, Dielover Yeah, which is a great song, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
Great fantastic song. Yeah. I wish there were more albums,
you know what I mean. I wish there were more
albums that to talk about. And because there, you don't
get a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
They toured a lot, didn't they. They they were torn consistently.

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
They did, yeah, a lot of the time they were
doing it without Christine. But I wish with Say You Will,
it had eighteen songs on. It was a long album,
and then there were if you got some of the
worldwide deluxe versions ended up being twenty. I kind of
wish they'd have made two ten song albums and you know,
staggered them, so two different cover arts, two different titles,

(01:05:31):
two different albums to discuss. I really wish they'd done,
like with Metallicated, with Load and Reload, something like that,
because there's just not a lot. And then it irritates
me to this very day that that EP they put
out in twenty thirteen still doesn't exist physically. They put
an EP out just called Extended Playing twenty thirteen, four
new songs, and it only exists digitally. One song on there,

(01:05:56):
which is called Sad Angel, you can get if you
buy the three CED version of a best of they
put out in twenty eighteen. Call that it's called fifty
Years Don't Stop. That's the only way you can get
one of those songs. And I do not understand a
band of their age putting on a digital only release
where most of their fan base are going to want

(01:06:17):
to buy physical. I keep hoping that it'll get reissued.
But I almost didn't even want to talk about it
because it annoyed me so badly, But well, I kind
of have to talk about it, so I had to
go on YouTube and listen to those songs. However, I
think that the album that Lindsay and Christine put out
in twenty seventeen is a really good album, and I

(01:06:37):
include it because it's a Fleetwood Mac album and everything
but name because John plays on it and Mick plays
on it. The only person that's not on it is Stevie,
And as you were saying, I have to think that's
got something to do with why it didn't come out
under the Fleetwood Mac name, which of course would have
given it a wider audience. But that Buckingham McVie album

(01:06:57):
is really really good. As far as I'm concidered, it's
a Fleetwood Mac album. It's very much like the last
Steve Lukather album called Bridges, which he put out twenty
twenty three. That's a total album. If you look at
the personnel on that album, it's got David Page, it's
got Joseph Williams, it's got Shannon Forest, it's got Lee Sclar,
it's got tons of Toto personnel. There's a dispute with

(01:07:20):
the Jeff Bacaro estate. They cannot put They can tour
Hiss Toto, but they can't put new music out. I
think it's the same type of thing with the mc
buckingham MCV album. Unfortunately, I hope people go back and
check that out because so far that's the newest thing.

Speaker 1 (01:07:34):
Yeah, would you like to see them make an album
with Neil Finn and Mike Campbell.

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
I can't see it happening. I mean I remember being
confused at first. I'm like Neil Finn like Crowded House Split,
But then I can think it about well, he is
kind of in the same vocal range and Mike Campbell
of course, I mean Stevie Nicks and the Heartbreakers, and
I get it, you know, it makes sense.

Speaker 1 (01:07:58):
But his songwriting skills, Mike Campbell, I think when that
That's what I'd be so interested in hearing something new
from Fleetwood Mack with his influence. Yeah, his song right,
I mean, we're talking about a guy who wrote the
Boys of Summer for Don Henley and.

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
Boys of Summer like you could, you could full stop
it right there. That's one of the greatest songs ever written,
right right.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
But and and and he just he helped to structure
those classic Petty songs with his riffs and his you know,
just coming to Petty with those songs.

Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
Yeah, I mean a lot of those I mean, I
mean a lot of those Tom Petty songs are so simple.
You know, you have to have the right band playing
them to make them exciting, otherwise they would just be
dead simple songs, right Like, uh so, yeah, it might
be interesting, but at this point in time, I don't know,
I don't see why you couldn't. They don't have to
be in the room at the same time, like Lindsay,

(01:08:49):
I mean, to record songs they could put together. You know,
I still wish that they they had taken you know,
with the the the album Lindsay and Christine did take
those four songsungs from that EP and graft them on there.
Now you've got some steviee content reissue it as a
Fleetwood Mac album. It wouldn't be the first time that's happened.
I mean, look at Dave David Coverdale. He put that

(01:09:11):
into the Light album in two thousand. Now it's out
as a White Snake album.

Speaker 1 (01:09:16):
I just saw he's he made some announcement today.

Speaker 2 (01:09:18):
What did he He's retired, which didn't surprise me. I
guess I just figured he was. But you know, but
I mean, but all of these, you know, you know, I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:09:28):
A little concerned too. Lindsay he had he had some
health issues his heart. He had a problem, so he
had a heart open heart surgery.

Speaker 2 (01:09:34):
Or yeah, he's been you know, he's been doing He's
been posting a lot of videos where he's like showing
how to play some of his songs. And then it's
kind of cool, like he and his daughter sit and
we'll watch some of his old videos and talk about them.

Speaker 1 (01:09:44):
Okay, yeah, yeah, I saw a few of those. Does
he look okay?

Speaker 2 (01:09:47):
I mean he talks a little slower, but it's but
he seems lucid, you know what I mean. One of
the cool things I saw a video like a fan
he was answering fan mail, and it was It's really
cool because I kind of didn't see it coming, and
he was talking about how much he loved Thin Lizzy.
I thought that was cool.

Speaker 3 (01:10:05):
Oh cool. I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:07):
Who knows what's going to happen? I mean, and who
knows what's in the vaults. That's the other thing. But
it's just a shame that it's like van Halen, man,
I just wish there were more out, more latter day albums.
There were so many, so such big gaps of time
without any new music. I want to hear new music.
You know, they can tour all they want. I want

(01:10:29):
to hear new music. I'm one of those guys.

Speaker 1 (01:10:30):
Did you hear the news? Alex's next book is coming out?
So I think it's a mostly photos book.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
I'm hoping, well, maybe I was kind of hoping he
would finish his first one. Yeah, pick up after nineteen
eighty four.

Speaker 3 (01:10:43):
Yeah, it's I got a real.

Speaker 2 (01:10:45):
Problem with that book, man. That was just I mean,
it stopped and it was like, come on, man, like
you're really going to take that with you to your grave?
You're bitterness in Sammy?

Speaker 1 (01:10:54):
Yeah, here it does Genesis Publications reveal upcoming Van Halen
book authored by Alex van Halen, Let's See Chronicle, So
featuring a dynamic blend of iconic photography alongside rare and
never before seen images exclusive access to his private archives,
Alex offers a personally guided tour through the band's legendary career.

(01:11:16):
But again, it's I can one eighty four.

Speaker 2 (01:11:21):
Yeah, you know what, I'm not gonna buy. I'm not
gonna buy this one. I'm I'm unless you're gonna do
it right and and get your head out of your whatever. Yeah,
I got a real problem with that, you know. Speaking
of photography, I do want to mention this. This is
something that that I think is important. The the artwork
on this cover, This was done.

Speaker 3 (01:11:42):
What a great cover.

Speaker 2 (01:11:43):
Yeah, this was done by my wife's best friend, Sally
Ann Morgan, who's who's not a published artist by any stretch,
but she did a couple of sketches for us personally
of a couple of our pets that are no longer
with us, and they were just beautiful pencil drawings like this.
Now you've those those pictures online of a kid listening
to a record play and it'll say, remember the first time,

(01:12:05):
and it'll have a you know, pick an album cover
that'll put it there. That's kind of what I had
in mind. But I wanted to have a penguin because
Fleetwood Mac uses penguins a lot. That's kind of their mascot.
Listening to Fleetwood Mac with headphones, you could see the
top hat in the cane. I love how this came out.

Speaker 3 (01:12:20):
She just really is beautiful.

Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
Yeah, I wanted it to look I'll tell you what
I wanted this to look like. Eric was the anti
AI because there are so many ugly looking AI books
out there. Matt Phillips, my good buddy that that helps
design the books and put them together for me, he
sent me this one that just came out, and it's
it's one of those covers where if you look at
it for more than two seconds, you're like, that's not

(01:12:43):
Fleetwood Mac. Those aren't people, Those aren't real people.

Speaker 3 (01:12:45):
No, it's really it's it's.

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
It'll be the death of us all.

Speaker 1 (01:12:50):
Well, you know, I think I think it's just gonna
come come down to people just gonna get sick of
or or they're going to connect more with the actual
real human beings. Again, there's you can't fake the real
human emotion that comes from art. So I think that
I think will be okay. I think AI is great
for certain things, but for art it is not like

(01:13:11):
you know, for artists. I mean, like I just listened
to a new podcast and I was I was looking
forward to listen to it, but the whole intro is
a is an AI generated song. Yeah, Like you could
tell like they just plugged, they typed in, write me
a rock song about I'm not going to say the
name of the podcast, it's that it doesn't matter, but

(01:13:33):
but anyway you could tell it was just created by
an AI.

Speaker 2 (01:13:36):
And I think that's the thing. Somehow you can just tell, yeah,
and there's something about that. So that's why, like a
lot of my books, we've licensed photos. I mean, with
my Y n T book, the absolute privilege, I ing
Hugh signed to it. But that's I'm not going to
be able to get you signed to two all my books. Now.
I will say this, the Kansas book, Let It Be
Your Guide. That's AI assisted, that's a I assisted.

Speaker 1 (01:14:01):
I remember you told me that.

Speaker 2 (01:14:02):
So Matt put that together. He gave it the idea
and the the iconography, but he fine tuned it a
lot I mean he made sure that the sailor didn't
have five, you know, five fingers and two thumbs and
you know, things like that. But yeah, I really I
wanted this to have a homemade, you know, homespun look
to it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:20):
So has she considered like framing that and selling it
as a as a piece of art. I mean, it's beautiful.

Speaker 2 (01:14:26):
She's very self effacing about it. But you can get
it as an art print through tea public through my account,
so it is no. I you know, she sent me
back the rough sketch of it, and I'm just like,
that's that's it because it was so hard to get
It's like I've got an idea in my mind and
that was it. She made it real. So yeah, and
also I want to I want to give a shout
out to Pete Pardo from Sea of Tranquility for writing

(01:14:49):
the forward to this book. That was a real pleasure to.

Speaker 1 (01:14:53):
Find the bookdown Rock website at bookedown rock dot com.
There you can find all the back episodes of the
show Wait this episode in video and audio links to
all of the platforms where you can listen to the podcast,
plus all the social media platforms were on Blue Sky, Facebook, Instagram,
TikTok and x. Also check out the Booked on Rock blog.
Find your local independent bookstore. Find out all the latest

(01:15:16):
hot rock book releases. And before you go, check out
the Booked on Rock online store. Pick up some booked
on Rock merch. It's all at booked on Rock dot com.
The Sound that Haunts You a Beginner's Companion of Fleetwood
Mac out now find it through Amazon. People can find
you online. You got the YouTube channel.

Speaker 2 (01:15:34):
Yeah, Tim's Final Confessions on all. I'm on Instagram and
Facebook and Twitter. I still call it Twitter, and yeah,
I've had the YouTube channel now since twenty fourteen. Going
to keep on going. And I'm in the midst like
I do whenever I have a book out of doing
a deep dive series, as you know on all of
the Fleetwood Mac albums. So that's just getting underway. I

(01:15:55):
think we're just about as we're filming this, we're just
about to get to Kilnhouse, so we got a long
way to go.

Speaker 1 (01:16:01):
But yeah, I'm a subscriber, so I always enjoy watching
the videos. And and by the way, folks go and
go to Amazon and look for all the great books
that you got unspooled, which is a great history of
eight tracks. The book on Wyan t Down for the
count Let It be Your Guide. The Kansas album review,
Red On Black, The Listener's Guide to Sammy Hagar and

(01:16:24):
Sing Me Away.

Speaker 3 (01:16:25):
The Night Ranger album review.

Speaker 2 (01:16:27):
It's pretty crazy. I mean five years ago I had
I had no books. Now I've got six.

Speaker 1 (01:16:31):
You are now a prolific veteran author.

Speaker 2 (01:16:34):
I mean I couldn't you know, I couldn't do it.
I couldn't do it without, you know, little help from
my friends. I couldn't do it without without Matt, and
I couldn't do it without my good friend Andy Campbell,
who does the proof reading for me. Because proofreading sucks.

Speaker 3 (01:16:46):
I hate it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:47):
I know, I heard it talk about, but it's so important. Yeah,
but yeah, I've got two more that I'm that I'm
working on.

Speaker 1 (01:16:53):
I was about to ask, what do you what do
you got?

Speaker 3 (01:16:55):
What do you got?

Speaker 2 (01:16:56):
I think you know about one of them because one
of them you're going to be in it. So but yeah,
so that's all, you know. I'm always working on on something,
but this one, I'm hoping to ride this one and
promote it because I know that obviously with the name
like Fleetwood, Mac, and this has a chance of reaching
an audience that that, you know, bigger audience than most
of the bands I write about. But after that, I'm
gonna get back to the normal. Well, write about obscure stuff,

(01:17:18):
but stuff that's good, but stuff that's good and needs
and needs written about.

Speaker 3 (01:17:21):
So but the underdogs.

Speaker 2 (01:17:23):
I stand by this because this this is like a
late comers version of of getting into Fleetwood Mac, which
is my whole goal with I hope that people end
up like me and be like, you know what, I
guess I like this band. After all. You know, you
take there, you take there. There are bands you take
for granted you hear them all the time, but then
you're like, no, really, really listen. This is good stuff.

(01:17:44):
This is well constructed, well written songs, well played, well
song well produced. All of that.

Speaker 1 (01:17:50):
Amen to that, Tim Darling, thanks man.

Speaker 2 (01:17:52):
Thanks Eric. That's it. It's in the books.

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