November 10, 2025 • 50 mins
Remembering the life, music, and enduring legacy of the one and only Tom Petty with author Gillian Gaar.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I look back at the life and musical legacy of
Tom Petty and proof that his music will live on
for decades to come. That's coming up next on Booke
Don Rock. We're totally booked rock and roll.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I mean, I'll leave you. You're reading.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Little Hands says it's time to rock and roll, Rock,
roll out. I totally booked. Welcome back to book Don
Rock the podcast for those about to read and rock.
I'm Eric Sennatch Jillian garr back on the podcast. Her
latest book is called Tom Petty The Life and Music.
Great to have you back.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Jillian, It's great to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
When did you first discover Tom Petty's music. Was there
a specific song or an album that hooked you in?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Well, I think it was down the Torpedoes, because that
was just if you were there, you know, it was
just kind of everywhere. It had a couple albums out before,
and I think what American Girl came out before then,
didn't it?
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
And so yeah, you heard that on the radio. But
that was like the big explosion, and you saw the
big posts anytime you went into a music store, if
you went to a music store that year, you saw
a poster of that album. On the wall or in
the window guaranteed. So you know, he quickly became one
of those artists that you knew who he was, even
if you never owned any of his records or weren't interested,
(01:17):
you knew who he was because he was Well. That
was the album that put him over the top finally,
to his relief and the band members relief too, I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yeah. For me it was late eighties, it was actually
full Moon Fever. Ah, and my older brother had a
lot of his stuff, a lot of the albums, and
so I really invested in all the back catalog after
getting turned on to the video for I Won't Back
Down and Free Fallen, And I knew he had hits
before that, but I just didn't realize what a body
(01:48):
of work that he had and how far it went back.
And of course, damn the Torpedoes was That's that's the
one you had to get first. Let's go back to
his childhood, you write in the chapter that covers his
childhood quote. On the surface, to Petty appeared to be
just another ordinary, happy family, but in reality, Tom Petty's
childhood was more like a tale of Southern Gothic horror.
Talk about the early years growing up in games with
(02:09):
Floord in the fifties and the sixties. What was that
like for Tom Petty?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Well, I didn't really know much of his background until
doing this book, So yeah, it was kind of horrifying
to read about this awful childhood that he had, or difficult,
I guess one could say, with a father who was
physically abusive quite seriously. I mean he had wilts on
his body for being hit with a belt. So that's
(02:35):
the kind of upbringing that he had. Although one of
the sort of sort of amusing things was about that
was okay, So we had this obvious conflict with his father.
Then as he gets older, it's not necessarily any better
because Tom isn't the kind of guy that likes to
go out hunting and fishing or play a lot of sports.
He's into his music, so his father is a keen
(02:56):
on that. And then also he grows his hair long.
It's hair was a big controversy with parents and sons
in particular back then, and Tom later said that his
father had thought that the reason he didn't bring any
girlfriends home was because, well, he's probably gay because he
has long hair, and the real reason didn't bring any
(03:18):
girlfriend's home is because it was such a dysfunctional household
and he didn't want to bring people home to hang
out there. He'd rather be at their homes. So you know,
that was a little amusing there, kind of black humored perhaps,
but also, I mean he did have a harsher beginning
than say someone like Elvis Presley, who grew up very poor,
(03:41):
but you know, did not have that physical abuse, but
those difficult upbringings. I find you see this again and
again with not just musicians but artists and performers. It
does kind of instill a drive in you to get out.
Some people buckle under and they kate, but then other
people like Elvis or Bruce Springsteen or Tom Petty, they're like,
(04:03):
there's got to be something more out there, and I'm
going to find it because I'm not staying here.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah. If it's too comfortable there at home, why leave?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yeah, it's funny you mentioned Elvis. Let's talk about the
Elvis story, which is, oh yeah, what really? That lit
the flame for him, not so much musically, but also
in terms of being a performer, because before he discovered music,
he found escape in television. He loved westerns and Hollywood
(04:33):
was a magical destination for him. And then in the
summer of sixty one, when he's ten years old, the
worlds of rock and roll in Hollywood stardom kind of
collide and something happens there. Talk about that was his
uncle that he met. He got to meet Elvis. His
uncle worked on a movie set.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, well, you know, I think it just gave him
a taste of what the show biz life was like.
And his uncle worked as local crew on film shoots Florida.
They're all in Florida, and Elvis went there to make
a movie after his army years, follow that Dream, which
was set in Florida too, so kind of on location,
(05:10):
and his uncle says to Tom and some other young relatives,
would you like to meet Elvis? And they go, Okay, sure,
that'd be fun. So they're taking over the to the
film set and it was in this small town where
it was a simple scene where Elvis and his co
star drive up to a bank and they walk into
the bank and there's all these people waiting to watch that.
And Tom said, he's later he's just kind of dazzled
(05:31):
by it. All the crowds there, and then the sort
of build up as the Cadillacs arrived with Elvis's entourage,
the Memphis Mafia. Then Elvis himself arrives, and the girls
are going crazy and there and of course Tom and
his aunt and the younger relatives, they're all, you know,
off to the side on the working on the crew
side of the shoots. You know, they meet Elvis, and
(05:53):
Tom said he couldn't even remember what he said to him,
but just and I guess also ten, you know, Elvis
is like feet, so that's a giant to you when
you're ten years old. And just seeing the stream of
albums that people are sending back to get autographed. And
how long it took to shoot this simple scene, which
(06:14):
film shoots usually take a while anyway, but this took
longer because girls would keep breaking through the barricades and
running in and ruining the shot, so they have to
do it again and again. And when he got back home,
his neighbors asking him what it was like, you know,
wanting all the details, and he's describing it, and traded
his sling shot for a box of forty five's that
(06:36):
the neighbor kid had with some Elvis forty five And
so that's really when he started getting interested in Elvis,
and he remained a lifelong fan. I mean about well,
I guess it's more than a few years ago. That
documentary The Searcher that came out about Elvis. It's partly
narrated or not narrated, but Tom's one of the interviewees
in that movie. And I found looking around online. Oh yeah,
(06:59):
I put that in that chatter two and some might
think a Rolling Stone article or something. He named his
ten favorite Elvis songs, and there are mostly the early songs.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
As I recall, Oh was it, Yeah, his first band
he forms because that guy he got the girls by
being in a rock and roll band.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Well, they say, that's you know, a big, a big
hook for guys. He starts band and that's how you
meet girls. Yeah, kind of kind of reminds me of
the other book. Just to share something else. Bruce Springsteen
also noted that girls like to dance, so he taught
himself all the dances, or you know, perfected his dance moves.
So at the school dances he could always get a
(07:40):
partner because a lot of the other guys, you know,
I'm not going to learn how to dance. That's that's
Sissy's stuff, and they're wondering, how does Bruce, you know,
this scrawny looking guy who doesn't have the height of
fashion on him, Well, why does he get girls? Well
as he knows how to dance?
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
So yeah, I mean with Tom the you know, he
was talking to a girls that were looking for a
band to play at our show or wherever, you know,
and he says, oh, I've got a band, we'll play it.
And he didn't have a band at all, right, just
cracked me up. Yeah, oh I think I could get
something together. Just oh, yeah, I have a band. We'll
play at the school or wherever it was. And they
(08:17):
did get a band together.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Quickly, quickly, Yeah, yeah, and eventually eventually Mudcrutch formed. Kind
of skipping ahead to get the chapter six, the Birth
of the Heartbreakers, And you write in that chapter quote
Tom was at loose ends. He'd come to la with
his wife, Jane, who gave birth to their daughter, Adria
in November nineteen seventy four, but now with Tom having
no band, Jane and Adria returned to Florida to live
(08:42):
with her family until he could re establish himself. So
talk about what happened with Mudcrutch, and how did the
Heartbreakers form because Mudcrutch was that was his thing, Like
this was his big break was going to be with Mudcrutch.
Didn't happen.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, well, you know, they put some couple singles out
that just didn't do anything, and the label just lost
interest in them, but they wanted to keep working with Tom.
So it's kind of like the band got fired in
a way, Oh but we'll still work with Tom, which
you know that must have made everyone feel a bit awkward.
(09:14):
But there, you know, he was kind of stranded in
La you know, you mentioned his childhood when he's watching
shows beamed in from Hollywood and how glamorous it sounded. Well,
now he was living in Hollywood and he was on
the skits, so he saw the other side of that.
And I mean, you walk around Hollywood today and there's
you know, the fancy, some high end restaurants and stuff,
(09:34):
and then there's also the sleazy motels just just down
the road. So he must have wondered what was going
to happen, and various things didn't pan out. Although I
guess you could see that say that was kind of
a year in training because as he played with the musicians.
He realized he wanted to get a band together again,
(09:56):
and he didn't want to work with studio musicians because
he did some things with studio musicians. He just felt
it didn't have the right feel because they're just playing
the gig and then the next session they go on
and back somebody else, and he wanted that band feeling,
you know, something more organic. And I mean actually some
of the Mudcrutch guys ended up being in the Heartbreaker right.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Well, Mike, Mike Campbell and Ben Montench Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yeah, And in fact, he showed up at some other session.
Was it Campbell's you have the book there? He showed
up at a session and there were a number of
the guys there from Florida and a few ex Mudcrutchers,
and it just worked out so well. They thought, well, hey,
let's have this band stay together. Let's make this a band,
and it became Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers kind of
(10:42):
by default, because Tom was still signed to the label
because the label was most interested in him, and he
didn't necessarily want to be the front man, even though
he did do I guess all the singing by then,
but he said, you know, it makes sense for it
to just go like this because I'm the one with
the record cont and you join in as backing me,
(11:02):
and we already have a record deal. So you know,
they went along with that, and I think they'd say
it probably it worked out well for them in the end.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yeah, And he wanted to call them King Be's or
the Gainesville All Stars at first, but then Tom having
to deal with Shelter as you mentioned, Shelter Records, the
focus was to be on him. So Tom Petty and
the Heartbreakers it became, and the debut album from nineteen
seventy six to Petty Classics break Down an American Girl,
and American Girl is the one, Like you write in
the book, and you just mentioned about just Tom Petty
(11:29):
in general, there are songs by Tom Petty that maybe
you don't even know it's by him, but you sure know.
The song an American Girl is one of those songs.
And there's also in the lyrics he's alluding to where
he came from. I believe you talk about that too.
The lyrics in that song.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yeah, he just make references to like a highway in
Florida that goes up the coast. But then he also
said later that the Sound of the Waves was really
the sound of the cars he heard living in Hollywood
by his own freeway, So it's kind of like a
mashup of the California and the Florida experience.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
You're going to get. It was the second album, and
that was the first to go gold. The singles I
Need to Know Listen to Her Heart did well, but
it's seventy nine's Damned the Torpedoes where Petty becomes a
huge star, his first album to hit the top ten,
the first to go platinum, sales over one million. It
would eventually sell over three million copies in the US.
Don't Do Me Like That, Refugee, Here Comes My Girl,
(12:29):
and even the losers are the singles. The big difference
here is that they bring in producer Jimmy Iovine. What
was it that Iovine did that made such a positive change,
while at the same time led to some tension with
one member of the band, that being drummer stan Lynch.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Ah Well, I hope it was, you know, in the
early years of what would be a storied career, and
he's a guy that has strong opinions, and I think
maybe that's what brought him into conflict just with the drummer,
but with the band too at times. And am I
right that he's the one that that may Tom upgraatest stereo,
(13:07):
the bottom of the stereo.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
I believe.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
So yeah, yeah, yeah, he comes over to see where
Tom's living. He just has, you know, just a modest
stereo and she was like, no, no, no, you need
to hear your music. You need to hear your records
properly and get some uh state of the art, up
to date stereo system for him. So you know, he's
really concerned with the music and the sound. But yeah,
(13:30):
very definite opinions. And it's interesting producers seem to have
a lot of trouble with with drummers. You hear about
that they'll they'll get on them the hardest, or maybe
they're not keeping in time, or they want them to
use a click track, and some drummers don't like that
because it's just too robotic. So there's that fight between
(13:51):
you know, the clean, precise sound and something more organic.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yeah, and Stan is a pretty opinionated guy himself.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah, yeah, I think we can say that.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yeah, you know, and so he he almost was out
of the band. I think there was a you know,
a point where there's discussion between Petty and Iven about
whether they should replace him, which I'm so glad they
didn't because I love Stan Lynch, I love his style.
But yeah, he pushed him several takes over and over
and over again until, like you say, not just a
stand but the whole band. But again, that's what on
(14:22):
the other side of it, that's what makes this album
so good, right, I mean, that's you know, he was
really driving him hard to come up with the complete album,
and it worked. The book has broken down into five parts,
and Damn the Torpedoes comes during part two, which is
titled Into the Great Wide Open nineteen seventy nine to
(14:42):
nineteen eighty seven, And you cover a lot of Did
this book cover so many things? Not just the albums
and the songs? Like you have Tom's first Saturday Night
Live appearance, his first of seven Rolling Stone covers, which
is a funny story. He was in a hospital in
Santa Monica recovering from about of tonsilitis when he he
saw it. But a lot of pressure to follow Damn
(15:04):
the Torpedoes, But he did follow with one of my
favorite Petty albums, which is Hard Promises. In nineteen eighty one,
The Waiting Woman in Love, It's Not Me, and something
Big are the singles there. Now here's a great example
of the side of Tom Petty that is defiant when
it comes to business. Talk about the battle he had
with NCAA over the price of the new album.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Well, he's a big act now, a big name, and
so they wanted to slap on an extra dollar on
their big name acts to make more money, because well
that's what they want to do. And Tom just thought
that was wrong and took a stand on principle that
you know, he was perfectly happy with the money he
had made before on the last album. He didn't need
(15:44):
the extra money, and he was sure the record company
didn't need the extra money, and so he just wasn't
going to let it out under that price.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
They wanted it up into nine ninety eight nine dollars
and ninety eight cents.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
He said, nope, nope. He held the line and I
guess I guess he had sul NV records that they thought, okay,
we'll give him this woman. But yeah, there's a great
picture of him. Maybe that was a Rolling Stone cover.
It was in Rolling Stone. You know, he's gotten the
kind of sly grin, and he's a ripping you knew,
ripping the dollar bill, dollar bill and half.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
You say. But he also had some fun threatening to
title the album eight ninety eight in retaliation, so he
was going to call it that, And then by the
time he was pictured on the cover of Rolling Stones
July twenty third, nineteen eighty one issue, he's wearing a
suit and tie and smiling as he rips a dollar
bill in half. MCA had capitulated Hard Promises would have
a list price of eight ninety eight. I didn't know this.
(16:39):
Tom also had a further left. The album's cover shows
him in a record store, which I know that, but
standing by a creative albums that are selling four eight
dollars ninety eight, and he said it was just too
irresistible to not do a little retouching. He joked, yeah, yeah.
You have a chapter covering Petty's duet with Stevie Nicks
(17:00):
Stop Dragging My Heart Around, huge hit in the summer
of eighty one. Then comes nineteen eighty two, long after
Dark You Got Lucky, straight into Darkness Change of Heart
of the Singles, Chapter twenty one covers the video for
You Got Lucky with the quote it changed everything. Talk
about the importance of that video for Tom Petty, because
not every artist from his generation or who came out
(17:25):
in the seventies embraced MTV the way he did.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Yeah, well you can find him on YouTube, and you
see the early videos that they did were basically just
performance videos, which frankly a lot of times I like those.
Sometimes the two elaborate ones got carried away. Well, I
don't suppose people make videos much anymore. It doesn't seem
to be a big thing. They'll put out, what a
lyric video, that's what you get on that's a lot easier.
(17:51):
You don't have to pay for a sub.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Dress, Yes, a lot less expensive.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Than or a costumer.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Let's hope it goes viral. That's the new thing now, viral.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
But this one, I mean, this was interesting because it
has the long intro, and videos rarely had intros like that.
They were usually you know, like a single three minutes
in and out. But having an intro where the band
arrives in you know, they're in the desert and it's
this decrepit place, sorry, got that up, decrepit place, you know,
(18:24):
abandoned building, and yeah, yeah, very much emulating or maybe
influenced by that and what I think I read some
of the vehicles they ride in came from the production,
the TV production of Logan's Run, using those old sets.
But another thing that's interesting, and I'd heard that MTV
(18:47):
later had issues with this kind of thing. But you
don't really see the band lip sync. You know, they
turn on the boombox and you hear the music playing,
but you don't really see them getting up and playing
their instruments and miming as we used to seeing. I
think it's just there's some TV screens all around, and
on the TV screens you see film of them doing that,
(19:07):
but they're not doing it in the main video. And
i'd heard I'd heard that one reason the video for
Kate Bushes Running Up That Hill was not aired on
MTV was because they don't lip syn lip sync during it,
the Kate and her male dancer dancing between themselves. But
you know, it's a good video. But maybe because this
(19:28):
was the early days of MTV when they really in
the early days, they just showed music videos. They didn't
have all those reality shows or even MTV news well,
I guess they didn't have kind of short little news
breaks but not like not like Kurt Loader at his newsdesk.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Primarily videos. Speaking of MTV, this Heartbreaker's beach party video.
This was a bootleg item for many years. Tell us
about this video. Cameron Crowe made it. It only aired
once on MTV.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah, just has his memoir out now, and I'm wondering
if he talks about it in there. He may have,
because I think it was the first, possibly the first
directorial effort of his and he even to the Heartbreakers
because they've written about him for Rolling Stone. You remember
he was a journalist at Rolling Stone and I think
Cream before going on to write and then direct screenplays.
(20:24):
But yeah, what I read was that there's a lot
of live concert footage in there, and so MTV was
worried about rights or something or who knows, who knows
what they worry about odd kind of things. You know,
we can't play that Michael Jackson video because it's not rock,
so you know, who knows what their decisions were. But
I've I've found it. I've found it on the streaming
(20:46):
on the web somewhere. You can find things if you look.
So that's how I got to see it and see
what it was and it's really kind of it's a
documentary about the band, but it's also jokey. It's not
you know, presented and this serious with the narrator and
all this kind of thing. It's in fact, the interview
segments are almost a parody of a documentary, but there
(21:09):
is live footage that's fun. And then let's see was it.
I can't remember if i'd turned in the manuscript theater
if it was right at the end. But last year,
I think, in conjunction with and I forget which album
it was that was being reissued, some album was being reissued,
a petty album, and as part of that promotion, they
(21:30):
had a couple of theatrical screenings of the film at
local theaters. They had one here in Seattle that I
went to, and they would have had similar ones, probably
just in big markets. But no word on if it
will ever be released, Yeah, officially released streaming platform. It
(21:51):
seemed from what I remember, I think I think it
was slightly edited from the original version, because I think
the original version had a few more references to groupies
or having fun with groupies something like that. Okay, nothing big,
but just and I don't remember that in the reissue
so I thought, oh, I guess maybe they clean that
up a bit.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yeah, but these are the types of things that are
in the book, Like I never knew about that, so
that was interesting to read about that. I mentioned Don't
Come around Here No More and that's from Southern Accents
from nineteen eighty five, another one of my all time
favorite Petty albums, Don't Come around Here No More rebels
and make it better forget about Me, or the three
singles in that video. That video Topps you got Lucky Petty.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Is the mad Adder, you know, kind of natural.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
The song wasn't actually intended for Tom Petty. Initially, this
is for this was Stevie Nicks. It was to be
a song for her, and it's based on a true story.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yeah, where she had met Dave Stewart of your when
he was still in you Rythmics and they were traveling
around the US in their first big flush of US
thing because I think I think they were bigger in
the UK before they real big over here. And they
got together. But then like the next morning, Stevie just
she was in between seeing different people. It was like
(23:09):
just get out. I can't have you here anymore. And
it's like, okay, whatever, you know. I mean, they're in La.
There's plenty of other distractions you can find. So he
wasn't really put out by that.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Stevie, don't come around here no more.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
You can hear her say that too.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
You can say that, yes, but yeah turned into a hit.
And then she said no, it's just doesn't fit in
with with my next album or something like that. And
she said, okay, here, Tom, you want to Is.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
This the one where you know she hears like the
Rough demo or something, and she's, well, what can I
add to this? You know you've done it. You're taking
this song from me. This can't be my song anymore benefited.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Tom Jullian Guard is the author of Tom Petty, The
Life and Music chapters on Petty's Live Aid appearance Farm Maide,
Bonding with Bob Dylan. They're in there too, of course.
They're tour with Bob Dylan, Tom and the Breakers. And
there's an album that's sometimes forgotten that came out prior
to Full Moon Fever nineteen eighty seven's let Me Up
I've Had Enough featuring Jam and Me all mixed up,
(24:09):
Think about Me. As the singles, things are moving along
quite nicely here until May seventeenth, nineteen eighty seven, when
Tom's house burned down. This was not an accident.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Now, that was weird. I don't remember hearing about that
at the time, and it wasn't something I knew about
him until working on this book. But yeah, someone set
fire to his house.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
The while they're in the house too. They're all having breakfast, I.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Think he said, yeah, yeah, And it was his wife's
birthday and they were you know, that's right, he'll be celebrating.
And one of their daughters, thankfully, was sleeping over at
a friend's house. And I don't know, I guess if
they got up at a regular time. It wasn't unusually early,
like you know, four am or something. But yeah, they
(24:53):
were there having breakfast, and he thought, oh, what's that
Some some wire gone back or something. But then no, no,
it's the house and it's on fire. And it sounds
like it burned pretty quickly, because he talked about trying
to put some of the fire out with the hose,
and the hose melted in his hands and his housekeeper
got mildly burned. But thankfully that was all that happened
(25:18):
to them. They were able to get out, and much
of the house was destroyed. I mean, you think about that,
losing your stuff, that would be hard, whoever you are.
But it seems that a lot of the studio and
his instruments and his tapes were preserved, so that was
a lucky break for him. But still it wasn't a
place he could live. And then he had thought it
was an accident, that yes, faulty wiring something like that,
(25:42):
but then the investigator said, no, we've looked and it's
clearly arson and they found a hole had been cut
in the back fence and this kind of thing, and
he was just stunned, you know, who would want to
kill me and my family? And the comments he made
on he said, he just you know, he had no
idea who would want to He didn't even and it
(26:04):
never has been sald.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Never saw in case when cold that's it. Yeah, I mean,
that's something that somebody should do some investigation into and
find out because that whoever did that should be brought
to justice if they're still around. But I mean, then
that really that really shook him up. Now I think
he rebuilt the house on the same location, but who
was it? Somebody? Oh, he was Andy.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Lennox to the Lenox, we can the other rhythmics tie.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
She did him the real solid and made sure he
got him and his family got a place to stay,
got clothing and all that.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Yeah. I mean he was going out on tour soon,
and he just went ahead with the tour. I mean,
I suppose why not instead of just stay home brooding
about it. And then it seemed like you know, I
always had he kind of had that laconic way of talking,
and he'd be at a concert saying, well, yeah, I
had an interesting week, you know, like last night my
housburn down. They didn't get this, and he holds his guitar.
(26:57):
I was going to call music. Yeah, my husband down.
I lost most of my possessions.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
But again the defiance and I won't back down. I
think it was partially inspired by that too, like you
can't you can't keep me down, and that song, of course,
along with so many others, became huge hits off of
Full Moon Fever. Part three of the book covers the
years nineteen eighty seven to nineteen ninety six. It's titled
It's Good to be King, and Tom Petty was indeed
(27:24):
the king. This resurgence of Pop's success starts with the
Traveling Willburries talk about how that project came to be
and how it leads to Full Moon Fever.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
I'm a big Beatles fan, so I was very interested
in everything to do with the Wilberries, and I've often thought,
how well we're working on this book. I often thought
about how Tom was among the seventy three million Americans
who watched the Beatles in their first day Sullivant appearance
on February ninth, nineteen sixty four. And you know, he's
(27:57):
about thirteen or so, and so just think, just think
if you had told him, you know, in about twenty
some years, you're going to make a record with that
lead guitarist. I mean, he'd have been floored. He wouldn't
have believed you. It's yeah, in what universe? But yeah,
it happened. And what I like about that record in particular,
(28:18):
certainly the first one, is that it was made just
for the fun of making music. They weren't trying to
have a hit. They didn't market test it to see, oh,
we should drop this song because the audience didn't like
it as much. That type of thing that you know,
it just came out of George Harrison needed a B
side for one of his singles from Cloud Nine, and
(28:41):
he was in La and all these other guys happened
to be in La. Bob Dylan was there, Oh, you
can record at my home studio. Okay. They bring Tom
along and oh, they all love Roy Orbison, so let's
get him in and Jeff Lin and you know, they
go over to Bob's and kind of hash out handle
with care and then they have dinner and I kind
of figure out the lyrics and then go back in
(29:03):
and it's just, you know, this relaxed experience of making
music together. And then the record company guys hear it
and they say, you know, this is too good for
a B side. Would you consider making an album? They say, oh, okay,
why not? They had had so much fun initially. Yeah, yeah,
let's keep it going. So I think I think that's
(29:25):
why you feel such a genuine warmth that comes from
that record, because they just love that laid back you know,
it's it's almost as if you were hanging out at
one of their homes, yes, and they're in the next
room playing the songs, and you know, it's just that
kind of relaxed everyday homespun kind of feeling.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Yes, And I believe the great Jim Keltner on drums
on that album. I believe, And they wanted to name
him the Wilbury but he was like, no, I want
to be behind the scenes. But yeah, I absolutely love
that album from start to finish. It is. It's one
of my all time favorites. So because jeff Lynn produced that,
that kind of leads to the fact that jeff Lynn
(30:04):
produced that Wilbury's album, that leads to him producing Full
More Fever.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Yeah. Well, I guess you could kind of see Tom's
working with him on Wilbury's as sort of a test run.
This is what this guy's like to work with. And yeah,
he's also i've heard, kind of an exacting fellow and
likes things done in this in this specific way that
people don't always agree with. But he obviously connected well
with Tom. That was Full Moon Fever.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
You said, Full More Fever.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Which is amazing to think that MCA Records rejected it.
I don't even know where where to begin with that one.
I mean, it's got I won't back down, running down
a dream, free falling a face in the crowd, You're
so bad. Those are all singles. They rejected it. But
then what led to them changing their mind? I think
(30:54):
after the Wilburys album became a success they said, although
no there was a new, there was.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
A new Yeah, yeah, I think I think it may
have been irving A's off the first time, though. I
wanted to check that, but he left. I mean, when
the when the earlier administration had heard the record, they
said there were no singles. You know, we don't hear
the single any singles, which is incredible when you think
(31:19):
about it now, but especially in well, that would have
been the eighties, wouldn't it. So Yeah, in the eighties
and nineties on, you know, a lot of the major
record companies are consolidating, and there were a lot of
regime changes, and certainly if you were a smaller artist,
that was not necessarily so good for you, because you know,
(31:41):
an A and R person would be laid off or
fired whatever, and then all their bands would get dropped.
They wouldn't just get farmed out to other an R people.
So that was Tomas too big for that to happen.
But you know, I guess he was lucky that he
had that delay coming in because then you had new
people in charge and they were like, hey, this sounds great. Yeah,
(32:05):
let's put this album out. So that must have given
him a bit of quite a bit of satisfaction.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
He never planned on it being a solo project. It
just kind of came, just came naturally. I mean, Mike
Campbell was there with them and they're jamming, and I
think it was Mike Campbell's garage and it just kind
of happened.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Now.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
I know some of the Heartbreakers are a little, you know,
a little hurt by that they weren't asked to be
part of it, but he did. He promised everybody the
Heartbreakers are not done, and he was true to that promise.
He came back into the Great White Open in nineteen
ninety one, which is a great album, Learning to Fly
(32:47):
into the Great White Open. Those are big singles. Then
the Greatest Hits Album in nineteen ninety three with a
brand new hit with Mary Jane's Last Dance. I mean,
how many times do you have a Greatest Hits album
where there's a brand new hit on it to add
to it. I mean, he was on such a roll.
But this is the last time Stan Lynch recorded with
the Heartbreakers. He's also on the cover of Thunderclap Newman
(33:07):
Something in the air, But yeah, there was something in
the air. Stan was difficult during those sessions with Rick Rubin,
that you're right about it in the book.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Yeah, brought in well. The Heartbreakers, I think were always
felt a bit threatened when Tom would do his solo
stuff because actually, generally Mike Campbell would be involved, I think,
pretty much all the time because he was like his
right hand man. He was always there with him, So
that must have rankled some of the members as well.
(33:35):
So I think they were threatened. But then he wouldn't
go off and do a solo tour. He would just
do a Heartbreaker's tour and add some solo songs in it.
So I think, you know, they relaxed and it didn't
mind that. But yeah, Stan didn't like the way the
new songs for the Greatest Hits album were put together,
and he didn't like Rick Rubin's instructions on oh, make
(33:57):
it sound like this record, make it sound like that record.
He just didn't like Rick Rubin, and there have been
other tensions, so I don't think it was a big
surprise when he left.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Yeah, he knew it was coming.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Yeah. I mean it's interesting. The later biography that was
done of Tom Petty with Thomas cooperation, but insisted not
his authorization. He wanted the author his name escapes me
now was a Warren Zanes. Yeah, yeah, thank you, thank you.
I mean what's interesting about that book is that he
(34:31):
got Stan Lynch to talk to him. So, I mean,
sure you want to hear his side too, of course,
don't you. So yeah, he goes into detail about that session.
Stan was not going to be involved and did not
want to talk to him, but Zanes kept asking and returning,
and you know, eventually want him over, and you know,
I think that makes the book stronger.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Sure. Well, what's funny too is he gave Rick Ruben
a hard time. But Rick Rubin's the guy who talked
Tom into bringing Stan Lynch back in because he said, look,
you got the greatest hits album. All of the tracks
features stand on it because at the time they were
working on Wildflowers and Steve FARRONI was already there, I believe,
and but but but he's Rick Rubins, the one who said, look,
(35:14):
you know a couple of new songs, let's have Stan
do him. So he's been difficult to Rick Rubin. Rick
Rubins the guy that he's the reason he was there,
and and and you know, Stan gets a nice paycheck
off that because it hits album. You know, so Steve
FARRONI very different style from from Stance, but it worked
and Petty loved that direction that sound was going in.
(35:36):
And apparently the fans did too, or clearly the fans did,
because you don't know how it feels you wreck me.
It's good to be king all from Wildflowers, which was
a huge success. And you quote heartbreaker Ben Montench in
the book. He told journalist David Brown, Tom would always
say that's the best album we ever made. Was it
(35:56):
the change of the drummer? Was it, Rick Rubin? What
do you think that led to Tom being so spot
on for that record and reinvigorated.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Well, it was a solo record, wasn't it. It was
a solo yeah, even though it had a lot of heartbreakers.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Again, yeah, his buddies, the heartbreakers are there, including Mike Campbell.
Like you say, he was his right hand man.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Maybe when he's making a heartbreaker's record, he feels that, Okay,
this has to be a heartbreaker's album. Whereas when it's
a solo album. He can do what he wants, and
you know, he doesn't have Maybe that was a sort
of self imposed restriction he had, and he just felt
freer to be more creative instead of saying, oh no,
that wouldn't be right for the Heartbreakers. But he's not
making a Heartbreaker's album, so maybe that was it. I mean,
(36:38):
it's actually, yeah, one of the most acclaimed albums of
his career.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Actually, do you put it up there at the top?
I mean, I have friends who say it's his best.
I don't think it is, but it's up there for me.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
I have things like Southern accent for Full Moon Fever better,
but yeah, it's up there.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Sure, sure, And then he really there was a bunch
of song that he didn't include on there that would
be released in a deluxe edition version many years later,
and some of those songs are outstanding. There's one called
It's Got Heaven in the title, and it's I can't
recall I don't have my phone, run me here, I
(37:18):
could look it up. But yeah, some great stuff on there.
But Part four of the book covers the year's nineteen
ninety seven to twenty ten. There's a twenty show residency
at the Fillmore Another in ninety nine and the Band's
on Fire. But there are some demons creeping up on
Tom in the nineties, so the people knew him, it
was a shock when they learned that he had become
addicted to heroin. You cover this period in chapter forty nine.
(37:42):
What led to Tom going down that hole and how
did he eventually come out of it?
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Well, I think some of it had to do with
the divorce he had around that time, which was definitely
painful and somewhat acrimonious. It sounds like yet he had
a lot of difficulties and arguments and things with his wife.
So that wasn't you know, that wasn't so good. In
talking about it, he sounds kind of surprised himself that
he ended up in that state, because you know, he
(38:09):
never had the reputation as being some wild party man.
I mean, yeah, drinking and everyone smoked pot. But you know,
you never previously read stories of him, you know, running
down the street smashing windows or something. He just wasn't
that kind of He always seemed like he was too
laid back. But from what I know from writing about it,
(38:30):
is that heroin seems like a drug that can kind
of sneak up on you. Like the first few times
are okay and you think, oh, I can handle this,
not realizing it's sort of sneaking up and sinking its
claws into you. And for a while it seems like
it was something that I don't know if he'd say
that he was ashamed or embarrassed or a combination of both,
(38:52):
but that you know, he didn't really talk about or
knowledge it. I think once he got through and put
it behind him, he just did not want to dwell
on it and go back there. Because when Peter Bugdanovich
made the big documentary about him running down a Dream,
they talked about it. He apparently talked about his hair
when you for the documentary, but then later he insisted
(39:15):
that it be cut and not used, so that didn't
come out. It wasn't until the Zaynes biography that he
talked more about it. I think also he did have
a concern that you hear this a lot from some people. Well,
I didn't want to glamorize it have people think, oh, wow,
that's cool, he did it, I should do it too.
Whereas when you read about the circumstances, you know it
(39:36):
just does not sound glamorous at all, you know, just
hiding in your house and your house falls apart because
you're not doing anything, You're just sitting there brooding. So yeah,
it doesn't really seem like much to glamorize there. Yeah,
he was divorced and it moved and was just living
in some It was still in LA but it was
one of the Yeah, kind of a more rural part
(39:56):
of the area. So yeah, I think he also felt
kind of icol. I feel isolated anyway, even if you
weren't doing drugs. But heroin is actually a pretty isolating drug.
You know, it's not as common you think of, well,
pot is being more communal. People pass it joint around, right,
but you know, heroin addicts kind of keep to themselves.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Sure it's not a party drug.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Yeah, Yeah, And they don't want to be around non
heroin users any more than a non heroin user wants
to be around them. So it's it's almost like the
sort of secret society, almost underground.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
He finally pulled himself out of it, obviously at some
point he realized I got to I gotta do something
about it, and credit to him he did. By the way,
the song Somewhere Under Heaven is the one from the
Wildflower session. Okay, oh my god, that songs. How that
didn't end up on the original version, I don't know.
But if for those listening to this haven't heard that song,
(40:49):
give that a listen and tell me that wouldn't have
been a huge hit. Somewhere under Heaven He did record
Echo from nineteen ninety nine during that period, still a
solid album. You've got a few my favorite petty songs
on their room at the top and swinging Free Girl
Now was another single on that one his last produced
by Rick Rubin because he was a little irritated with
(41:09):
Rick because he was working. He was leaving the project
early to work with the Red Hot Chili Peppers on Calalnication.
But you write about how Rick told Tom's daughters about
his drug problem. Do you think that also led to
the falling out?
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Well, it may have been part of it. It's really
couldn't have helped, right, But you know, I'm sure Rick
was just thinking what can I do? He thought that
by telling the daughters that the daughters would obviously talk
to their father, that might help Tom want to get
off drugs. You know, it's hard to know what to
do when you're dealing with an addict. So I'm sure
(41:45):
they made up eventually, well probably once once Tom got
out of all that. You're not thinking straight when you're
under the influence of that kind of thing. But yeah,
I'm sure he was very unhappy about it. I think
what he had a new girl friend by then, and
even she didn't know he was on heroin. They weren't
living together, which helped.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
But we know too he lost Howie Epstein to heroin.
I think that was how he's drug too, that took
him down.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Yeah. I think their Rockhall appearance, when they were inducted
at the Rock Hall, I think that was the last
time they saw him. Just yeah, it was not in
good shape.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Hey, guys, we'll get back to the show, but first
I want to tell you about an exclusive deal for
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(42:47):
glory dot com. Make sure to use the promo code.
Booked on Rock also find a link in this episode
show notes, or just go to booked on Rock dot
com and click on my deals. The book covers every
important part of Tom's life and his late career. His
Hollywood Walk of Fame dedication, his participation in America, A
Tribute to Heroes after nine to eleven, the Rock Hall
(43:08):
induction that you just mentioned. You covered the two thousand
and two album The Last DJ two thousand and six
is Highway Companion twenty ten's Mojo, which is one of
my favorite albums from Petty's later years. Twenty fourteen, Hypnotic Eye,
his thirtieth and fortieth anniversary tours, the Return of Mud Crotch,
(43:28):
the Super Bowl Halftime Show. It's all in there. You
lead off the chapter on his death with quote, it
was a shocking end because it was so sudden and unexpected.
Just over a week after the Heartbreakers twenty seventeen tour
had ended, Tom was found unconscious at his Malibu home.
He was rushed to UCLA Medical Center, but died later
that day. He was sixty six years old. I think
(43:52):
there is still some clarification needed when you talk about
the cause of his death, because some thought he had relapsed,
this was more because of physical pain.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
He was in, Yeah, when we're rehearsing for that final tour,
had fallen and said it was a hairline fracture in
his hip, and his widow by Van later said that
he just he didn't cancel the tour because he didn't
want to disappoint the fans, which you know, in retrospect,
obviously that's that's quite a mistake, and especially you know,
(44:26):
for him, I think his fans would still have been there,
of course postponed for a year later, but they probably.
But you know, you're rehearsing, so that means you already
have things lined up, to a crew, all that kind
of thing. And I think maybe he didn't appreciate how
serious it could become. And you know, not that I
(44:47):
know him, but maybe there's just also some fearing. You
don't want to think that it can become serious because
medical things are can be scary, and so he just
went ahead with it, went ahead with his tour, and
that just aggravated the hairline fracture, so it became a
break and it was apparently very very painful. Oh, he
had a heart. He didn't have the kind of show
(45:08):
like you know, a Janet Jackson where you've got a
lot of dancing and choreography, but still just being on
your feet for two hours plus whatever. You know, that
put a strain on it, and his band members would
kind of hell. He'd have to lean on them to
get on stage. And he just began taking increasing numbers
of painkillers and.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
It was like a toxic combination of things he was.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Taking for the paint to relieve that pain. And again
I thought, well, since you knew we had this issue,
why hadn't he He made arrangements to go into a
hospital soon after he stopped touring. I mean, you have
all these people around it that can set up that
kind of thing, and hip surgery is pretty common. It's
in fact, I had a friend that went through it
(45:53):
a few years ago. We have his quick recovery. Yeah, yeah,
your mom had it.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
Quick recovery.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
I mean stays. You're just in the hospital unless there's
a complication. You're in the hospital for just a handful
of days, not even a week, so it would have
been over and done. And yeah, pretty low risk because
it's so common, and yeah, they get you up. I
saw Benda. They get you up moving right away and
you do exercises and things, and wow, what better place
(46:20):
to do physical therapy than California? Actually right side and
all that. But yeah, I think in the medical examiner's
report it looked like he was taking some painkillers that
had been prescribed and some he had not. So I
think when you do that kind of thing, it's like
you're rolling the dice every time you do that. And
of course your own body metabolism changes all the time,
(46:42):
and I think that explains some sudden deaths like that.
You know, the same amount of whatever it was would
not have had that effect on your body last week,
but this week it does, So that's why your body's
changing all the time. Yeah, it wasn't like someone say,
who had a lot outstanding drug problem and was in
and out of rehab and so when they die, well
(47:05):
like Amy winehouse sad death that was yeah, I really
liked her stuff. But you know, not surprising, right, You know,
when you heard about your death, you're probably oh, that's
too bad. But how surprised? Were you?
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Shocked?
Speaker 2 (47:19):
Shocked?
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Mean? Just and every time I hear or read about it,
or just hearing you talk about it, it's like, man,
if you could just hit the rewind button, go back
a day before and say, Tom, don't do it, just
get the surgery. You'll be fine.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
Like as a fan, I'd be like, don't worry about it, man,
we're going to be here next year when you come back.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Like I was saying, Amy's was not a surprise when
she died, so horrible to hear about. But when you
heard about Tom's that was completely unexpected, and especially since
the tour just stopped and ended rather than stopped, and
there were the great reviews. You know, it really got
out on this high note to think, wow, wow, it
was like this triumphant moment. So to hear this later,
it was the kind of thing. Well, like I say,
(47:59):
about a week later, and there's a kind of thing
where you when you first heard it you didn't think
it was true. No, no, that can't be right.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
Hey, guys, thanks so much for checking out the Booked
on Rock podcast. If you've just found the podcast, welcome.
If you've been listening, thank you so much for your support,
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(48:34):
tune In, and on YouTube music. You can check out
the full episodes on video, along with video highlights from
episodes on the Booked on Rock YouTube channel. Find it
at Booked on Rock. Thanks again for listening. Now back
to the show. Let's finish with Tom Petty's musical legacy.
This is really cool. In the book, you break it
down and you talk about his legacy and how the
(48:56):
numbers speak for themselves in terms of YouTube views and
I streams and sales of his music. I mean, his
music is as popular as ever.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
Yeah, and you look at the posthumous releases that have
come out, and he really appreciate the archives that guy
has because they put up these box sets with all
this unreleased material, a lot of it. Like you were
saying about the Wildflower stuff, like why did this make
the main album? There was some B sides for Southern
accents that was like that. So yeah, just this wealth
(49:26):
of material, the live stuff too, I mean they could
probably they could probably start issuing live shows and have
those releases go on for years, complete live shows. I mean,
because it seems like they taped a.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
Lot of millions of streams on Spotify, millions of views
on YouTube. Still, yeah, his music, it looks like it's
going to be around for a long time. Tom Petty
The Life and Music. The book is out now. You
can find out wherever books are sold and look forward
at your nearest bookstore. Bookdown rock dot com is where
you can go to find your nearest independent bookstore. And
(49:57):
Jillian people can find you online where.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
Uh, let's see, I have a Facebook page that's Jillian
gar Writer, just all one word with no spaces, and
that's I guess they call it a fan page. You know,
you don't send a friend request or anything. And I'm
on Twitter or x and Blue Sky with just.
Speaker 1 (50:19):
My name Jillian. Thanks again for coming on and congratulations
on this book. As you can tell, I'm a huge
time Petty fan. So I love talking about every book
that you've written that I've had John for. Here, You've
done the Queen book, that Springsteen book, Elton John I
had John for.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
Wow, that's a long time ago. So this has been
a couple of years.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
Then yep, that's it. Yeah, Jillian, thanks again.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
Well, thank you had a great time.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
That's it. It's in the books.
I look back at the life and musical legacy of
Tom Petty and proof that his music will live on
for decades to come. That's coming up next on Booke
Don Rock. We're totally booked rock and roll.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I mean, I'll leave you. You're reading.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Little Hands says it's time to rock and roll, Rock,
roll out. I totally booked. Welcome back to book Don
Rock the podcast for those about to read and rock.
I'm Eric Sennatch Jillian garr back on the podcast. Her
latest book is called Tom Petty The Life and Music.
Great to have you back.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Jillian, It's great to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
When did you first discover Tom Petty's music. Was there
a specific song or an album that hooked you in?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Well, I think it was down the Torpedoes, because that
was just if you were there, you know, it was
just kind of everywhere. It had a couple albums out before,
and I think what American Girl came out before then,
didn't it?
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
And so yeah, you heard that on the radio. But
that was like the big explosion, and you saw the
big posts anytime you went into a music store, if
you went to a music store that year, you saw
a poster of that album. On the wall or in
the window guaranteed. So you know, he quickly became one
of those artists that you knew who he was, even
if you never owned any of his records or weren't interested,
(01:17):
you knew who he was because he was Well. That
was the album that put him over the top finally,
to his relief and the band members relief too, I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yeah. For me it was late eighties, it was actually
full Moon Fever. Ah, and my older brother had a
lot of his stuff, a lot of the albums, and
so I really invested in all the back catalog after
getting turned on to the video for I Won't Back
Down and Free Fallen, And I knew he had hits
before that, but I just didn't realize what a body
(01:48):
of work that he had and how far it went back.
And of course, damn the Torpedoes was That's that's the
one you had to get first. Let's go back to
his childhood, you write in the chapter that covers his
childhood quote. On the surface, to Petty appeared to be
just another ordinary, happy family, but in reality, Tom Petty's
childhood was more like a tale of Southern Gothic horror.
Talk about the early years growing up in games with
(02:09):
Floord in the fifties and the sixties. What was that
like for Tom Petty?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Well, I didn't really know much of his background until
doing this book, So yeah, it was kind of horrifying
to read about this awful childhood that he had, or difficult,
I guess one could say, with a father who was
physically abusive quite seriously. I mean he had wilts on
his body for being hit with a belt. So that's
(02:35):
the kind of upbringing that he had. Although one of
the sort of sort of amusing things was about that
was okay, So we had this obvious conflict with his father.
Then as he gets older, it's not necessarily any better
because Tom isn't the kind of guy that likes to
go out hunting and fishing or play a lot of sports.
He's into his music, so his father is a keen
(02:56):
on that. And then also he grows his hair long.
It's hair was a big controversy with parents and sons
in particular back then, and Tom later said that his
father had thought that the reason he didn't bring any
girlfriends home was because, well, he's probably gay because he
has long hair, and the real reason didn't bring any
(03:18):
girlfriend's home is because it was such a dysfunctional household
and he didn't want to bring people home to hang
out there. He'd rather be at their homes. So you know,
that was a little amusing there, kind of black humored perhaps,
but also, I mean he did have a harsher beginning
than say someone like Elvis Presley, who grew up very poor,
(03:41):
but you know, did not have that physical abuse, but
those difficult upbringings. I find you see this again and
again with not just musicians but artists and performers. It
does kind of instill a drive in you to get out.
Some people buckle under and they kate, but then other
people like Elvis or Bruce Springsteen or Tom Petty, they're like,
(04:03):
there's got to be something more out there, and I'm
going to find it because I'm not staying here.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah. If it's too comfortable there at home, why leave?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yeah, it's funny you mentioned Elvis. Let's talk about the
Elvis story, which is, oh yeah, what really? That lit
the flame for him, not so much musically, but also
in terms of being a performer, because before he discovered music,
he found escape in television. He loved westerns and Hollywood
(04:33):
was a magical destination for him. And then in the
summer of sixty one, when he's ten years old, the
worlds of rock and roll in Hollywood stardom kind of
collide and something happens there. Talk about that was his
uncle that he met. He got to meet Elvis. His
uncle worked on a movie set.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, well, you know, I think it just gave him
a taste of what the show biz life was like.
And his uncle worked as local crew on film shoots Florida.
They're all in Florida, and Elvis went there to make
a movie after his army years, follow that Dream, which
was set in Florida too, so kind of on location,
(05:10):
and his uncle says to Tom and some other young relatives,
would you like to meet Elvis? And they go, Okay, sure,
that'd be fun. So they're taking over the to the
film set and it was in this small town where
it was a simple scene where Elvis and his co
star drive up to a bank and they walk into
the bank and there's all these people waiting to watch that.
And Tom said, he's later he's just kind of dazzled
(05:31):
by it. All the crowds there, and then the sort
of build up as the Cadillacs arrived with Elvis's entourage,
the Memphis Mafia. Then Elvis himself arrives, and the girls
are going crazy and there and of course Tom and
his aunt and the younger relatives, they're all, you know,
off to the side on the working on the crew
side of the shoots. You know, they meet Elvis, and
(05:53):
Tom said he couldn't even remember what he said to him,
but just and I guess also ten, you know, Elvis
is like feet, so that's a giant to you when
you're ten years old. And just seeing the stream of
albums that people are sending back to get autographed. And
how long it took to shoot this simple scene, which
(06:14):
film shoots usually take a while anyway, but this took
longer because girls would keep breaking through the barricades and
running in and ruining the shot, so they have to
do it again and again. And when he got back home,
his neighbors asking him what it was like, you know,
wanting all the details, and he's describing it, and traded
his sling shot for a box of forty five's that
(06:36):
the neighbor kid had with some Elvis forty five And
so that's really when he started getting interested in Elvis,
and he remained a lifelong fan. I mean about well,
I guess it's more than a few years ago. That
documentary The Searcher that came out about Elvis. It's partly
narrated or not narrated, but Tom's one of the interviewees
in that movie. And I found looking around online. Oh yeah,
(06:59):
I put that in that chatter two and some might
think a Rolling Stone article or something. He named his
ten favorite Elvis songs, and there are mostly the early songs.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
As I recall, Oh was it, Yeah, his first band
he forms because that guy he got the girls by
being in a rock and roll band.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Well, they say, that's you know, a big, a big
hook for guys. He starts band and that's how you
meet girls. Yeah, kind of kind of reminds me of
the other book. Just to share something else. Bruce Springsteen
also noted that girls like to dance, so he taught
himself all the dances, or you know, perfected his dance moves.
So at the school dances he could always get a
(07:40):
partner because a lot of the other guys, you know,
I'm not going to learn how to dance. That's that's
Sissy's stuff, and they're wondering, how does Bruce, you know,
this scrawny looking guy who doesn't have the height of
fashion on him, Well, why does he get girls? Well
as he knows how to dance?
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
So yeah, I mean with Tom the you know, he
was talking to a girls that were looking for a
band to play at our show or wherever, you know,
and he says, oh, I've got a band, we'll play it.
And he didn't have a band at all, right, just
cracked me up. Yeah, oh I think I could get
something together. Just oh, yeah, I have a band. We'll
play at the school or wherever it was. And they
(08:17):
did get a band together.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Quickly, quickly, Yeah, yeah, and eventually eventually Mudcrutch formed. Kind
of skipping ahead to get the chapter six, the Birth
of the Heartbreakers, And you write in that chapter quote
Tom was at loose ends. He'd come to la with
his wife, Jane, who gave birth to their daughter, Adria
in November nineteen seventy four, but now with Tom having
no band, Jane and Adria returned to Florida to live
(08:42):
with her family until he could re establish himself. So
talk about what happened with Mudcrutch, and how did the
Heartbreakers form because Mudcrutch was that was his thing, Like
this was his big break was going to be with Mudcrutch.
Didn't happen.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, well, you know, they put some couple singles out
that just didn't do anything, and the label just lost
interest in them, but they wanted to keep working with Tom.
So it's kind of like the band got fired in
a way, Oh but we'll still work with Tom, which
you know that must have made everyone feel a bit awkward.
(09:14):
But there, you know, he was kind of stranded in
La you know, you mentioned his childhood when he's watching
shows beamed in from Hollywood and how glamorous it sounded. Well,
now he was living in Hollywood and he was on
the skits, so he saw the other side of that.
And I mean, you walk around Hollywood today and there's
you know, the fancy, some high end restaurants and stuff,
(09:34):
and then there's also the sleazy motels just just down
the road. So he must have wondered what was going
to happen, and various things didn't pan out. Although I
guess you could see that say that was kind of
a year in training because as he played with the musicians.
He realized he wanted to get a band together again,
(09:56):
and he didn't want to work with studio musicians because
he did some things with studio musicians. He just felt
it didn't have the right feel because they're just playing
the gig and then the next session they go on
and back somebody else, and he wanted that band feeling,
you know, something more organic. And I mean actually some
of the Mudcrutch guys ended up being in the Heartbreaker right.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Well, Mike, Mike Campbell and Ben Montench Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yeah, And in fact, he showed up at some other session.
Was it Campbell's you have the book there? He showed
up at a session and there were a number of
the guys there from Florida and a few ex Mudcrutchers,
and it just worked out so well. They thought, well, hey,
let's have this band stay together. Let's make this a band,
and it became Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers kind of
(10:42):
by default, because Tom was still signed to the label
because the label was most interested in him, and he
didn't necessarily want to be the front man, even though
he did do I guess all the singing by then,
but he said, you know, it makes sense for it
to just go like this because I'm the one with
the record cont and you join in as backing me,
(11:02):
and we already have a record deal. So you know,
they went along with that, and I think they'd say
it probably it worked out well for them in the end.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yeah, And he wanted to call them King Be's or
the Gainesville All Stars at first, but then Tom having
to deal with Shelter as you mentioned, Shelter Records, the
focus was to be on him. So Tom Petty and
the Heartbreakers it became, and the debut album from nineteen
seventy six to Petty Classics break Down an American Girl,
and American Girl is the one, Like you write in
the book, and you just mentioned about just Tom Petty
(11:29):
in general, there are songs by Tom Petty that maybe
you don't even know it's by him, but you sure know.
The song an American Girl is one of those songs.
And there's also in the lyrics he's alluding to where
he came from. I believe you talk about that too.
The lyrics in that song.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yeah, he just make references to like a highway in
Florida that goes up the coast. But then he also
said later that the Sound of the Waves was really
the sound of the cars he heard living in Hollywood
by his own freeway, So it's kind of like a
mashup of the California and the Florida experience.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
You're going to get. It was the second album, and
that was the first to go gold. The singles I
Need to Know Listen to Her Heart did well, but
it's seventy nine's Damned the Torpedoes where Petty becomes a
huge star, his first album to hit the top ten,
the first to go platinum, sales over one million. It
would eventually sell over three million copies in the US.
Don't Do Me Like That, Refugee, Here Comes My Girl,
(12:29):
and even the losers are the singles. The big difference
here is that they bring in producer Jimmy Iovine. What
was it that Iovine did that made such a positive change,
while at the same time led to some tension with
one member of the band, that being drummer stan Lynch.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Ah Well, I hope it was, you know, in the
early years of what would be a storied career, and
he's a guy that has strong opinions, and I think
maybe that's what brought him into conflict just with the drummer,
but with the band too at times. And am I
right that he's the one that that may Tom upgraatest stereo,
(13:07):
the bottom of the stereo.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
I believe.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
So yeah, yeah, yeah, he comes over to see where
Tom's living. He just has, you know, just a modest
stereo and she was like, no, no, no, you need
to hear your music. You need to hear your records
properly and get some uh state of the art, up
to date stereo system for him. So you know, he's
really concerned with the music and the sound. But yeah,
(13:30):
very definite opinions. And it's interesting producers seem to have
a lot of trouble with with drummers. You hear about
that they'll they'll get on them the hardest, or maybe
they're not keeping in time, or they want them to
use a click track, and some drummers don't like that
because it's just too robotic. So there's that fight between
(13:51):
you know, the clean, precise sound and something more organic.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yeah, and Stan is a pretty opinionated guy himself.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah, yeah, I think we can say that.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yeah, you know, and so he he almost was out
of the band. I think there was a you know,
a point where there's discussion between Petty and Iven about
whether they should replace him, which I'm so glad they
didn't because I love Stan Lynch, I love his style.
But yeah, he pushed him several takes over and over
and over again until, like you say, not just a
stand but the whole band. But again, that's what on
(14:22):
the other side of it, that's what makes this album
so good, right, I mean, that's you know, he was
really driving him hard to come up with the complete album,
and it worked. The book has broken down into five parts,
and Damn the Torpedoes comes during part two, which is
titled Into the Great Wide Open nineteen seventy nine to
(14:42):
nineteen eighty seven, And you cover a lot of Did
this book cover so many things? Not just the albums
and the songs? Like you have Tom's first Saturday Night
Live appearance, his first of seven Rolling Stone covers, which
is a funny story. He was in a hospital in
Santa Monica recovering from about of tonsilitis when he he
saw it. But a lot of pressure to follow Damn
(15:04):
the Torpedoes, But he did follow with one of my
favorite Petty albums, which is Hard Promises. In nineteen eighty one,
The Waiting Woman in Love, It's Not Me, and something
Big are the singles there. Now here's a great example
of the side of Tom Petty that is defiant when
it comes to business. Talk about the battle he had
with NCAA over the price of the new album.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Well, he's a big act now, a big name, and
so they wanted to slap on an extra dollar on
their big name acts to make more money, because well
that's what they want to do. And Tom just thought
that was wrong and took a stand on principle that
you know, he was perfectly happy with the money he
had made before on the last album. He didn't need
(15:44):
the extra money, and he was sure the record company
didn't need the extra money, and so he just wasn't
going to let it out under that price.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
They wanted it up into nine ninety eight nine dollars
and ninety eight cents.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
He said, nope, nope. He held the line and I
guess I guess he had sul NV records that they thought, okay,
we'll give him this woman. But yeah, there's a great
picture of him. Maybe that was a Rolling Stone cover.
It was in Rolling Stone. You know, he's gotten the
kind of sly grin, and he's a ripping you knew,
ripping the dollar bill, dollar bill and half.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
You say. But he also had some fun threatening to
title the album eight ninety eight in retaliation, so he
was going to call it that, And then by the
time he was pictured on the cover of Rolling Stones
July twenty third, nineteen eighty one issue, he's wearing a
suit and tie and smiling as he rips a dollar
bill in half. MCA had capitulated Hard Promises would have
a list price of eight ninety eight. I didn't know this.
(16:39):
Tom also had a further left. The album's cover shows
him in a record store, which I know that, but
standing by a creative albums that are selling four eight
dollars ninety eight, and he said it was just too
irresistible to not do a little retouching. He joked, yeah, yeah.
You have a chapter covering Petty's duet with Stevie Nicks
(17:00):
Stop Dragging My Heart Around, huge hit in the summer
of eighty one. Then comes nineteen eighty two, long after
Dark You Got Lucky, straight into Darkness Change of Heart
of the Singles, Chapter twenty one covers the video for
You Got Lucky with the quote it changed everything. Talk
about the importance of that video for Tom Petty, because
not every artist from his generation or who came out
(17:25):
in the seventies embraced MTV the way he did.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Yeah, well you can find him on YouTube, and you
see the early videos that they did were basically just
performance videos, which frankly a lot of times I like those.
Sometimes the two elaborate ones got carried away. Well, I
don't suppose people make videos much anymore. It doesn't seem
to be a big thing. They'll put out, what a
lyric video, that's what you get on that's a lot easier.
(17:51):
You don't have to pay for a sub.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Dress, Yes, a lot less expensive.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Than or a costumer.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Let's hope it goes viral. That's the new thing now, viral.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
But this one, I mean, this was interesting because it
has the long intro, and videos rarely had intros like that.
They were usually you know, like a single three minutes
in and out. But having an intro where the band
arrives in you know, they're in the desert and it's
this decrepit place, sorry, got that up, decrepit place, you know,
(18:24):
abandoned building, and yeah, yeah, very much emulating or maybe
influenced by that and what I think I read some
of the vehicles they ride in came from the production,
the TV production of Logan's Run, using those old sets.
But another thing that's interesting, and I'd heard that MTV
(18:47):
later had issues with this kind of thing. But you
don't really see the band lip sync. You know, they
turn on the boombox and you hear the music playing,
but you don't really see them getting up and playing
their instruments and miming as we used to seeing. I
think it's just there's some TV screens all around, and
on the TV screens you see film of them doing that,
(19:07):
but they're not doing it in the main video. And
i'd heard I'd heard that one reason the video for
Kate Bushes Running Up That Hill was not aired on
MTV was because they don't lip syn lip sync during it,
the Kate and her male dancer dancing between themselves. But
you know, it's a good video. But maybe because this
(19:28):
was the early days of MTV when they really in
the early days, they just showed music videos. They didn't
have all those reality shows or even MTV news well,
I guess they didn't have kind of short little news
breaks but not like not like Kurt Loader at his newsdesk.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Primarily videos. Speaking of MTV, this Heartbreaker's beach party video.
This was a bootleg item for many years. Tell us
about this video. Cameron Crowe made it. It only aired
once on MTV.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah, just has his memoir out now, and I'm wondering
if he talks about it in there. He may have,
because I think it was the first, possibly the first
directorial effort of his and he even to the Heartbreakers
because they've written about him for Rolling Stone. You remember
he was a journalist at Rolling Stone and I think
Cream before going on to write and then direct screenplays.
(20:24):
But yeah, what I read was that there's a lot
of live concert footage in there, and so MTV was
worried about rights or something or who knows, who knows
what they worry about odd kind of things. You know,
we can't play that Michael Jackson video because it's not rock,
so you know, who knows what their decisions were. But
I've I've found it. I've found it on the streaming
(20:46):
on the web somewhere. You can find things if you look.
So that's how I got to see it and see
what it was and it's really kind of it's a
documentary about the band, but it's also jokey. It's not
you know, presented and this serious with the narrator and
all this kind of thing. It's in fact, the interview
segments are almost a parody of a documentary, but there
(21:09):
is live footage that's fun. And then let's see was it.
I can't remember if i'd turned in the manuscript theater
if it was right at the end. But last year,
I think, in conjunction with and I forget which album
it was that was being reissued, some album was being reissued,
a petty album, and as part of that promotion, they
(21:30):
had a couple of theatrical screenings of the film at
local theaters. They had one here in Seattle that I
went to, and they would have had similar ones, probably
just in big markets. But no word on if it
will ever be released, Yeah, officially released streaming platform. It
(21:51):
seemed from what I remember, I think I think it
was slightly edited from the original version, because I think
the original version had a few more references to groupies
or having fun with groupies something like that. Okay, nothing big,
but just and I don't remember that in the reissue
so I thought, oh, I guess maybe they clean that
up a bit.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yeah, but these are the types of things that are
in the book, Like I never knew about that, so
that was interesting to read about that. I mentioned Don't
Come around Here No More and that's from Southern Accents
from nineteen eighty five, another one of my all time
favorite Petty albums, Don't Come around Here No More rebels
and make it better forget about Me, or the three
singles in that video. That video Topps you got Lucky Petty.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Is the mad Adder, you know, kind of natural.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
The song wasn't actually intended for Tom Petty. Initially, this
is for this was Stevie Nicks. It was to be
a song for her, and it's based on a true story.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yeah, where she had met Dave Stewart of your when
he was still in you Rythmics and they were traveling
around the US in their first big flush of US
thing because I think I think they were bigger in
the UK before they real big over here. And they
got together. But then like the next morning, Stevie just
she was in between seeing different people. It was like
(23:09):
just get out. I can't have you here anymore. And
it's like, okay, whatever, you know. I mean, they're in La.
There's plenty of other distractions you can find. So he
wasn't really put out by that.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Stevie, don't come around here no more.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
You can hear her say that too.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
You can say that, yes, but yeah turned into a hit.
And then she said no, it's just doesn't fit in
with with my next album or something like that. And
she said, okay, here, Tom, you want to Is.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
This the one where you know she hears like the
Rough demo or something, and she's, well, what can I
add to this? You know you've done it. You're taking
this song from me. This can't be my song anymore benefited.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Tom Jullian Guard is the author of Tom Petty, The
Life and Music chapters on Petty's Live Aid appearance Farm Maide,
Bonding with Bob Dylan. They're in there too, of course.
They're tour with Bob Dylan, Tom and the Breakers. And
there's an album that's sometimes forgotten that came out prior
to Full Moon Fever nineteen eighty seven's let Me Up
I've Had Enough featuring Jam and Me all mixed up,
(24:09):
Think about Me. As the singles, things are moving along
quite nicely here until May seventeenth, nineteen eighty seven, when
Tom's house burned down. This was not an accident.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Now, that was weird. I don't remember hearing about that
at the time, and it wasn't something I knew about
him until working on this book. But yeah, someone set
fire to his house.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
The while they're in the house too. They're all having breakfast, I.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Think he said, yeah, yeah, And it was his wife's
birthday and they were you know, that's right, he'll be celebrating.
And one of their daughters, thankfully, was sleeping over at
a friend's house. And I don't know, I guess if
they got up at a regular time. It wasn't unusually early,
like you know, four am or something. But yeah, they
(24:53):
were there having breakfast, and he thought, oh, what's that
Some some wire gone back or something. But then no, no,
it's the house and it's on fire. And it sounds
like it burned pretty quickly, because he talked about trying
to put some of the fire out with the hose,
and the hose melted in his hands and his housekeeper
got mildly burned. But thankfully that was all that happened
(25:18):
to them. They were able to get out, and much
of the house was destroyed. I mean, you think about that,
losing your stuff, that would be hard, whoever you are.
But it seems that a lot of the studio and
his instruments and his tapes were preserved, so that was
a lucky break for him. But still it wasn't a
place he could live. And then he had thought it
was an accident, that yes, faulty wiring something like that,
(25:42):
but then the investigator said, no, we've looked and it's
clearly arson and they found a hole had been cut
in the back fence and this kind of thing, and
he was just stunned, you know, who would want to
kill me and my family? And the comments he made
on he said, he just you know, he had no
idea who would want to He didn't even and it
(26:04):
never has been sald.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Never saw in case when cold that's it. Yeah, I mean,
that's something that somebody should do some investigation into and
find out because that whoever did that should be brought
to justice if they're still around. But I mean, then
that really that really shook him up. Now I think
he rebuilt the house on the same location, but who
was it? Somebody? Oh, he was Andy.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Lennox to the Lenox, we can the other rhythmics tie.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
She did him the real solid and made sure he
got him and his family got a place to stay,
got clothing and all that.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Yeah. I mean he was going out on tour soon,
and he just went ahead with the tour. I mean,
I suppose why not instead of just stay home brooding
about it. And then it seemed like you know, I
always had he kind of had that laconic way of talking,
and he'd be at a concert saying, well, yeah, I
had an interesting week, you know, like last night my
housburn down. They didn't get this, and he holds his guitar.
(26:57):
I was going to call music. Yeah, my husband down.
I lost most of my possessions.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
But again the defiance and I won't back down. I
think it was partially inspired by that too, like you
can't you can't keep me down, and that song, of course,
along with so many others, became huge hits off of
Full Moon Fever. Part three of the book covers the
years nineteen eighty seven to nineteen ninety six. It's titled
It's Good to be King, and Tom Petty was indeed
(27:24):
the king. This resurgence of Pop's success starts with the
Traveling Willburries talk about how that project came to be
and how it leads to Full Moon Fever.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
I'm a big Beatles fan, so I was very interested
in everything to do with the Wilberries, and I've often thought,
how well we're working on this book. I often thought
about how Tom was among the seventy three million Americans
who watched the Beatles in their first day Sullivant appearance
on February ninth, nineteen sixty four. And you know, he's
(27:57):
about thirteen or so, and so just think, just think
if you had told him, you know, in about twenty
some years, you're going to make a record with that
lead guitarist. I mean, he'd have been floored. He wouldn't
have believed you. It's yeah, in what universe? But yeah,
it happened. And what I like about that record in particular,
(28:18):
certainly the first one, is that it was made just
for the fun of making music. They weren't trying to
have a hit. They didn't market test it to see, oh,
we should drop this song because the audience didn't like
it as much. That type of thing that you know,
it just came out of George Harrison needed a B
side for one of his singles from Cloud Nine, and
(28:41):
he was in La and all these other guys happened
to be in La. Bob Dylan was there, Oh, you
can record at my home studio. Okay. They bring Tom
along and oh, they all love Roy Orbison, so let's
get him in and Jeff Lin and you know, they
go over to Bob's and kind of hash out handle
with care and then they have dinner and I kind
of figure out the lyrics and then go back in
(29:03):
and it's just, you know, this relaxed experience of making
music together. And then the record company guys hear it
and they say, you know, this is too good for
a B side. Would you consider making an album? They say, oh, okay,
why not? They had had so much fun initially. Yeah, yeah,
let's keep it going. So I think I think that's
(29:25):
why you feel such a genuine warmth that comes from
that record, because they just love that laid back you know,
it's it's almost as if you were hanging out at
one of their homes, yes, and they're in the next
room playing the songs, and you know, it's just that
kind of relaxed everyday homespun kind of feeling.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Yes, And I believe the great Jim Keltner on drums
on that album. I believe, And they wanted to name
him the Wilbury but he was like, no, I want
to be behind the scenes. But yeah, I absolutely love
that album from start to finish. It is. It's one
of my all time favorites. So because jeff Lynn produced that,
that kind of leads to the fact that jeff Lynn
(30:04):
produced that Wilbury's album, that leads to him producing Full
More Fever.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Yeah. Well, I guess you could kind of see Tom's
working with him on Wilbury's as sort of a test run.
This is what this guy's like to work with. And yeah,
he's also i've heard, kind of an exacting fellow and
likes things done in this in this specific way that
people don't always agree with. But he obviously connected well
with Tom. That was Full Moon Fever.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
You said, Full More Fever.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Which is amazing to think that MCA Records rejected it.
I don't even know where where to begin with that one.
I mean, it's got I won't back down, running down
a dream, free falling a face in the crowd, You're
so bad. Those are all singles. They rejected it. But
then what led to them changing their mind? I think
(30:54):
after the Wilburys album became a success they said, although
no there was a new, there was.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
A new Yeah, yeah, I think I think it may
have been irving A's off the first time, though. I
wanted to check that, but he left. I mean, when
the when the earlier administration had heard the record, they
said there were no singles. You know, we don't hear
the single any singles, which is incredible when you think
(31:19):
about it now, but especially in well, that would have
been the eighties, wouldn't it. So Yeah, in the eighties
and nineties on, you know, a lot of the major
record companies are consolidating, and there were a lot of
regime changes, and certainly if you were a smaller artist,
that was not necessarily so good for you, because you know,
(31:41):
an A and R person would be laid off or
fired whatever, and then all their bands would get dropped.
They wouldn't just get farmed out to other an R people.
So that was Tomas too big for that to happen.
But you know, I guess he was lucky that he
had that delay coming in because then you had new
people in charge and they were like, hey, this sounds great. Yeah,
(32:05):
let's put this album out. So that must have given
him a bit of quite a bit of satisfaction.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
He never planned on it being a solo project. It
just kind of came, just came naturally. I mean, Mike
Campbell was there with them and they're jamming, and I
think it was Mike Campbell's garage and it just kind
of happened.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Now.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
I know some of the Heartbreakers are a little, you know,
a little hurt by that they weren't asked to be
part of it, but he did. He promised everybody the
Heartbreakers are not done, and he was true to that promise.
He came back into the Great White Open in nineteen
ninety one, which is a great album, Learning to Fly
(32:47):
into the Great White Open. Those are big singles. Then
the Greatest Hits Album in nineteen ninety three with a
brand new hit with Mary Jane's Last Dance. I mean,
how many times do you have a Greatest Hits album
where there's a brand new hit on it to add
to it. I mean, he was on such a roll.
But this is the last time Stan Lynch recorded with
the Heartbreakers. He's also on the cover of Thunderclap Newman
(33:07):
Something in the air, But yeah, there was something in
the air. Stan was difficult during those sessions with Rick Rubin,
that you're right about it in the book.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Yeah, brought in well. The Heartbreakers, I think were always
felt a bit threatened when Tom would do his solo
stuff because actually, generally Mike Campbell would be involved, I think,
pretty much all the time because he was like his
right hand man. He was always there with him, So
that must have rankled some of the members as well.
(33:35):
So I think they were threatened. But then he wouldn't
go off and do a solo tour. He would just
do a Heartbreaker's tour and add some solo songs in it.
So I think, you know, they relaxed and it didn't
mind that. But yeah, Stan didn't like the way the
new songs for the Greatest Hits album were put together,
and he didn't like Rick Rubin's instructions on oh, make
(33:57):
it sound like this record, make it sound like that record.
He just didn't like Rick Rubin, and there have been
other tensions, so I don't think it was a big
surprise when he left.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Yeah, he knew it was coming.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Yeah. I mean it's interesting. The later biography that was
done of Tom Petty with Thomas cooperation, but insisted not
his authorization. He wanted the author his name escapes me
now was a Warren Zanes. Yeah, yeah, thank you, thank you.
I mean what's interesting about that book is that he
(34:31):
got Stan Lynch to talk to him. So, I mean,
sure you want to hear his side too, of course,
don't you. So yeah, he goes into detail about that session.
Stan was not going to be involved and did not
want to talk to him, but Zanes kept asking and returning,
and you know, eventually want him over, and you know,
I think that makes the book stronger.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Sure. Well, what's funny too is he gave Rick Ruben
a hard time. But Rick Rubin's the guy who talked
Tom into bringing Stan Lynch back in because he said, look,
you got the greatest hits album. All of the tracks
features stand on it because at the time they were
working on Wildflowers and Steve FARRONI was already there, I believe,
and but but but he's Rick Rubins, the one who said, look,
(35:14):
you know a couple of new songs, let's have Stan
do him. So he's been difficult to Rick Rubin. Rick
Rubins the guy that he's the reason he was there,
and and and you know, Stan gets a nice paycheck
off that because it hits album. You know, so Steve
FARRONI very different style from from Stance, but it worked
and Petty loved that direction that sound was going in.
(35:36):
And apparently the fans did too, or clearly the fans did,
because you don't know how it feels you wreck me.
It's good to be king all from Wildflowers, which was
a huge success. And you quote heartbreaker Ben Montench in
the book. He told journalist David Brown, Tom would always
say that's the best album we ever made. Was it
(35:56):
the change of the drummer? Was it, Rick Rubin? What
do you think that led to Tom being so spot
on for that record and reinvigorated.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Well, it was a solo record, wasn't it. It was
a solo yeah, even though it had a lot of heartbreakers.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Again, yeah, his buddies, the heartbreakers are there, including Mike Campbell.
Like you say, he was his right hand man.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Maybe when he's making a heartbreaker's record, he feels that, Okay,
this has to be a heartbreaker's album. Whereas when it's
a solo album. He can do what he wants, and
you know, he doesn't have Maybe that was a sort
of self imposed restriction he had, and he just felt
freer to be more creative instead of saying, oh no,
that wouldn't be right for the Heartbreakers. But he's not
making a Heartbreaker's album, so maybe that was it. I mean,
(36:38):
it's actually, yeah, one of the most acclaimed albums of
his career.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Actually, do you put it up there at the top?
I mean, I have friends who say it's his best.
I don't think it is, but it's up there for me.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
I have things like Southern accent for Full Moon Fever better,
but yeah, it's up there.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Sure, sure, And then he really there was a bunch
of song that he didn't include on there that would
be released in a deluxe edition version many years later,
and some of those songs are outstanding. There's one called
It's Got Heaven in the title, and it's I can't
recall I don't have my phone, run me here, I
(37:18):
could look it up. But yeah, some great stuff on there.
But Part four of the book covers the year's nineteen
ninety seven to twenty ten. There's a twenty show residency
at the Fillmore Another in ninety nine and the Band's
on Fire. But there are some demons creeping up on
Tom in the nineties, so the people knew him, it
was a shock when they learned that he had become
addicted to heroin. You cover this period in chapter forty nine.
(37:42):
What led to Tom going down that hole and how
did he eventually come out of it?
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Well, I think some of it had to do with
the divorce he had around that time, which was definitely
painful and somewhat acrimonious. It sounds like yet he had
a lot of difficulties and arguments and things with his wife.
So that wasn't you know, that wasn't so good. In
talking about it, he sounds kind of surprised himself that
he ended up in that state, because you know, he
(38:09):
never had the reputation as being some wild party man.
I mean, yeah, drinking and everyone smoked pot. But you know,
you never previously read stories of him, you know, running
down the street smashing windows or something. He just wasn't
that kind of He always seemed like he was too
laid back. But from what I know from writing about it,
(38:30):
is that heroin seems like a drug that can kind
of sneak up on you. Like the first few times
are okay and you think, oh, I can handle this,
not realizing it's sort of sneaking up and sinking its
claws into you. And for a while it seems like
it was something that I don't know if he'd say
that he was ashamed or embarrassed or a combination of both,
(38:52):
but that you know, he didn't really talk about or
knowledge it. I think once he got through and put
it behind him, he just did not want to dwell
on it and go back there. Because when Peter Bugdanovich
made the big documentary about him running down a Dream,
they talked about it. He apparently talked about his hair
when you for the documentary, but then later he insisted
(39:15):
that it be cut and not used, so that didn't
come out. It wasn't until the Zaynes biography that he
talked more about it. I think also he did have
a concern that you hear this a lot from some people. Well,
I didn't want to glamorize it have people think, oh, wow,
that's cool, he did it, I should do it too.
Whereas when you read about the circumstances, you know it
(39:36):
just does not sound glamorous at all, you know, just
hiding in your house and your house falls apart because
you're not doing anything, You're just sitting there brooding. So yeah,
it doesn't really seem like much to glamorize there. Yeah,
he was divorced and it moved and was just living
in some It was still in LA but it was
one of the Yeah, kind of a more rural part
(39:56):
of the area. So yeah, I think he also felt
kind of icol. I feel isolated anyway, even if you
weren't doing drugs. But heroin is actually a pretty isolating drug.
You know, it's not as common you think of, well,
pot is being more communal. People pass it joint around, right,
but you know, heroin addicts kind of keep to themselves.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Sure it's not a party drug.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Yeah, Yeah, And they don't want to be around non
heroin users any more than a non heroin user wants
to be around them. So it's it's almost like the
sort of secret society, almost underground.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
He finally pulled himself out of it, obviously at some
point he realized I got to I gotta do something
about it, and credit to him he did. By the way,
the song Somewhere Under Heaven is the one from the
Wildflower session. Okay, oh my god, that songs. How that
didn't end up on the original version, I don't know.
But if for those listening to this haven't heard that song,
(40:49):
give that a listen and tell me that wouldn't have
been a huge hit. Somewhere under Heaven He did record
Echo from nineteen ninety nine during that period, still a
solid album. You've got a few my favorite petty songs
on their room at the top and swinging Free Girl
Now was another single on that one his last produced
by Rick Rubin because he was a little irritated with
(41:09):
Rick because he was working. He was leaving the project
early to work with the Red Hot Chili Peppers on Calalnication.
But you write about how Rick told Tom's daughters about
his drug problem. Do you think that also led to
the falling out?
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Well, it may have been part of it. It's really
couldn't have helped, right, But you know, I'm sure Rick
was just thinking what can I do? He thought that
by telling the daughters that the daughters would obviously talk
to their father, that might help Tom want to get
off drugs. You know, it's hard to know what to
do when you're dealing with an addict. So I'm sure
(41:45):
they made up eventually, well probably once once Tom got
out of all that. You're not thinking straight when you're
under the influence of that kind of thing. But yeah,
I'm sure he was very unhappy about it. I think
what he had a new girl friend by then, and
even she didn't know he was on heroin. They weren't
living together, which helped.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
But we know too he lost Howie Epstein to heroin.
I think that was how he's drug too, that took
him down.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Yeah. I think their Rockhall appearance, when they were inducted
at the Rock Hall, I think that was the last
time they saw him. Just yeah, it was not in
good shape.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Hey, guys, we'll get back to the show, but first
I want to tell you about an exclusive deal for
booked on Rock listeners get fifteen percent off any purchase
at old glory dot com. Over three hundred thousand officially
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(42:47):
glory dot com. Make sure to use the promo code.
Booked on Rock also find a link in this episode
show notes, or just go to booked on Rock dot
com and click on my deals. The book covers every
important part of Tom's life and his late career. His
Hollywood Walk of Fame dedication, his participation in America, A
Tribute to Heroes after nine to eleven, the Rock Hall
(43:08):
induction that you just mentioned. You covered the two thousand
and two album The Last DJ two thousand and six
is Highway Companion twenty ten's Mojo, which is one of
my favorite albums from Petty's later years. Twenty fourteen, Hypnotic Eye,
his thirtieth and fortieth anniversary tours, the Return of Mud Crotch,
(43:28):
the Super Bowl Halftime Show. It's all in there. You
lead off the chapter on his death with quote, it
was a shocking end because it was so sudden and unexpected.
Just over a week after the Heartbreakers twenty seventeen tour
had ended, Tom was found unconscious at his Malibu home.
He was rushed to UCLA Medical Center, but died later
that day. He was sixty six years old. I think
(43:52):
there is still some clarification needed when you talk about
the cause of his death, because some thought he had relapsed,
this was more because of physical pain.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
He was in, Yeah, when we're rehearsing for that final tour,
had fallen and said it was a hairline fracture in
his hip, and his widow by Van later said that
he just he didn't cancel the tour because he didn't
want to disappoint the fans, which you know, in retrospect,
obviously that's that's quite a mistake, and especially you know,
(44:26):
for him, I think his fans would still have been there,
of course postponed for a year later, but they probably.
But you know, you're rehearsing, so that means you already
have things lined up, to a crew, all that kind
of thing. And I think maybe he didn't appreciate how
serious it could become. And you know, not that I
(44:47):
know him, but maybe there's just also some fearing. You
don't want to think that it can become serious because
medical things are can be scary, and so he just
went ahead with it, went ahead with his tour, and
that just aggravated the hairline fracture, so it became a
break and it was apparently very very painful. Oh, he
had a heart. He didn't have the kind of show
(45:08):
like you know, a Janet Jackson where you've got a
lot of dancing and choreography, but still just being on
your feet for two hours plus whatever. You know, that
put a strain on it, and his band members would
kind of hell. He'd have to lean on them to
get on stage. And he just began taking increasing numbers
of painkillers and.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
It was like a toxic combination of things he was.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Taking for the paint to relieve that pain. And again
I thought, well, since you knew we had this issue,
why hadn't he He made arrangements to go into a
hospital soon after he stopped touring. I mean, you have
all these people around it that can set up that
kind of thing, and hip surgery is pretty common. It's
in fact, I had a friend that went through it
(45:53):
a few years ago. We have his quick recovery. Yeah, yeah,
your mom had it.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
Quick recovery.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
I mean stays. You're just in the hospital unless there's
a complication. You're in the hospital for just a handful
of days, not even a week, so it would have
been over and done. And yeah, pretty low risk because
it's so common, and yeah, they get you up. I
saw Benda. They get you up moving right away and
you do exercises and things, and wow, what better place
(46:20):
to do physical therapy than California? Actually right side and
all that. But yeah, I think in the medical examiner's
report it looked like he was taking some painkillers that
had been prescribed and some he had not. So I
think when you do that kind of thing, it's like
you're rolling the dice every time you do that. And
of course your own body metabolism changes all the time,
(46:42):
and I think that explains some sudden deaths like that.
You know, the same amount of whatever it was would
not have had that effect on your body last week,
but this week it does, So that's why your body's
changing all the time. Yeah, it wasn't like someone say,
who had a lot outstanding drug problem and was in
and out of rehab and so when they die, well
(47:05):
like Amy winehouse sad death that was yeah, I really
liked her stuff. But you know, not surprising, right, You know,
when you heard about your death, you're probably oh, that's
too bad. But how surprised? Were you?
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Shocked?
Speaker 2 (47:19):
Shocked?
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Mean? Just and every time I hear or read about it,
or just hearing you talk about it, it's like, man,
if you could just hit the rewind button, go back
a day before and say, Tom, don't do it, just
get the surgery. You'll be fine.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
Like as a fan, I'd be like, don't worry about it, man,
we're going to be here next year when you come back.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Like I was saying, Amy's was not a surprise when
she died, so horrible to hear about. But when you
heard about Tom's that was completely unexpected, and especially since
the tour just stopped and ended rather than stopped, and
there were the great reviews. You know, it really got
out on this high note to think, wow, wow, it
was like this triumphant moment. So to hear this later,
it was the kind of thing. Well, like I say,
(47:59):
about a week later, and there's a kind of thing
where you when you first heard it you didn't think
it was true. No, no, that can't be right.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
Hey, guys, thanks so much for checking out the Booked
on Rock podcast. If you've just found the podcast, welcome.
If you've been listening, thank you so much for your support,
and make sure you tell a friend, a family member,
share on social media and let people know about Booked
on Rock. And if you do like the podcast, make
sure you subscribe give a five star review. Wherever you
listen to the Booked on Rock podcast, We're on Amazon, Apple, iHeart, Spotify, Spreaker,
(48:34):
tune In, and on YouTube music. You can check out
the full episodes on video, along with video highlights from
episodes on the Booked on Rock YouTube channel. Find it
at Booked on Rock. Thanks again for listening. Now back
to the show. Let's finish with Tom Petty's musical legacy.
This is really cool. In the book, you break it
down and you talk about his legacy and how the
(48:56):
numbers speak for themselves in terms of YouTube views and
I streams and sales of his music. I mean, his
music is as popular as ever.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
Yeah, and you look at the posthumous releases that have
come out, and he really appreciate the archives that guy
has because they put up these box sets with all
this unreleased material, a lot of it. Like you were
saying about the Wildflower stuff, like why did this make
the main album? There was some B sides for Southern
accents that was like that. So yeah, just this wealth
(49:26):
of material, the live stuff too, I mean they could
probably they could probably start issuing live shows and have
those releases go on for years, complete live shows. I mean,
because it seems like they taped a.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
Lot of millions of streams on Spotify, millions of views
on YouTube. Still, yeah, his music, it looks like it's
going to be around for a long time. Tom Petty
The Life and Music. The book is out now. You
can find out wherever books are sold and look forward
at your nearest bookstore. Bookdown rock dot com is where
you can go to find your nearest independent bookstore. And
(49:57):
Jillian people can find you online where.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
Uh, let's see, I have a Facebook page that's Jillian
gar Writer, just all one word with no spaces, and
that's I guess they call it a fan page. You know,
you don't send a friend request or anything. And I'm
on Twitter or x and Blue Sky with just.
Speaker 1 (50:19):
My name Jillian. Thanks again for coming on and congratulations
on this book. As you can tell, I'm a huge
time Petty fan. So I love talking about every book
that you've written that I've had John for. Here, You've
done the Queen book, that Springsteen book, Elton John I
had John for.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
Wow, that's a long time ago. So this has been
a couple of years.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
Then yep, that's it. Yeah, Jillian, thanks again.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
Well, thank you had a great time.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
That's it. It's in the books.
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