September 24, 2024 • 50 mins
SNL. NFL. MLS. 313. You know you’ve got a good brand on your hands when all it takes is three letters or numbers to evoke an image or a moment that millions of people around the world recognize. But whether it’s a super quotable comedy sketch, an unforgettable moment in football (both American and European), or the birthplace of the car and Motown, it can be all too easy to take powerful branding for granted after it becomes so ingrained in our daily lives.
But that doesn’t detract from just how much time and work goes into building, cultivating, and sometimes revitalizing these brands to the point that they become their industry’s standard-bearer. And more importantly, it doesn’t take away from the role of strong relationships—old and new—in defining these brands and businesses.
In this week’s episode, host Anne Green catches up with old friend and former colleague Howard Handler, President of 313 Presents. Howard provides an engaging overview of his journey from growing up in Detroit to playing key roles in major brands across industries, including Quaker Oats, Lorne Michael’s Broadway Video, the NFL, and Virgin Mobile USA. Now back in his hometown, Howard is dedicated to nurturing Detroit’s dynamic entertainment scene through 313 Presents—further illustrating his commitment to fusing narratives and relationships to build community and ensure the brand continues to captivate audiences and consumers.
We also discuss:
But that doesn’t detract from just how much time and work goes into building, cultivating, and sometimes revitalizing these brands to the point that they become their industry’s standard-bearer. And more importantly, it doesn’t take away from the role of strong relationships—old and new—in defining these brands and businesses.
In this week’s episode, host Anne Green catches up with old friend and former colleague Howard Handler, President of 313 Presents. Howard provides an engaging overview of his journey from growing up in Detroit to playing key roles in major brands across industries, including Quaker Oats, Lorne Michael’s Broadway Video, the NFL, and Virgin Mobile USA. Now back in his hometown, Howard is dedicated to nurturing Detroit’s dynamic entertainment scene through 313 Presents—further illustrating his commitment to fusing narratives and relationships to build community and ensure the brand continues to captivate audiences and consumers.
We also discuss:
- The challenges and opportunities of adapting to a new industry
- Why the ability to sell your brand and tell your story is crucial in opening new doors and career opportunities
- Leading businesses as well as brands
- The city of Detroit as an example of brand revitalization
- Lessons that businesses of all sizes can learn from disruptive approaches like those of Virgin
- The joy of maintaining relationships across the arc of your career
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
So what does the concept of brand mean to you?
It's such an often used word, but it's got a
pretty deep set of meanings. And one thing that's always
interesting to me is how the concept of a brand
evolves over the course of your career if you happen
to work in these types of fields. Which is why
it's been really exciting for me to have the chance
(00:28):
to talk to an old friend, an old colleague, Howard Handler,
and I'm excited to share this conversation with you today.
We talk about in the incredible arc of his career
and what it meant to go from working with a
quicker roads company to suddenly working with Laurene Michaels and
marketing Saturday Night Live and all the properties of Broadway
Video and a million things after that, including Virgion Mobile
(00:50):
where I met him, and on and on to working
at an incredible entertainment company in Detroit today. But there's
a lot of lessons he has to share. One of
the central ones, as he put it, is relationships are everything.
They are treasures, and you're going to hear that come
through really strongly in this conversation. So sit back and listen,
(01:10):
and if you enjoy what you're here, share it with
another friend. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
You are listening to Building Brand Gravity Attracting People into
your Orbit, a GNS Business Communications podcast. This is a
show for communications pros across industries looking to gain an
inside of view into industry influence. You're about to hear
a conversation with leading industry professionals talking about the importance
(01:43):
of building business impact through sound brand strategy. Let's get
into the show.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Hello, and welcome to Building Brand Gravity. I'm Anne Green,
CEO at GNS Business Communications, and my guest and I
first met back in two thousand and three. He joined
my then client, Virgin Mobile USA, not long after its launch,
and I have to say I was a bit obsessed
with his resume at the time. He was coming from
senior brand and marketing roles at major players like Broadway
(02:11):
Video that's Lauren Michael's company for those who don't know,
Viacom and NFL, and it kind of it kind of
made me nervous to meet him, admittedly, but that immediately
fell away. He's laughing already as soon as I experienced
his warmth and his energy and his infectious positive spirit.
The client agency relationship can be tense at times, but
(02:32):
he treats everyone like a core member of the team
and like family. So he went on to lead other
marketing roles at illustrious brands like EMI and MSG and
Major League Soccer. That's the last time we saw each
other in person was when you were at MLS. And
then in twenty nineteen, he returned to his native Michigan
to take the president role at three one to three
(02:52):
per Cents, which is Detroit's premier live entertainment company, overseeing
six venues from the Fox Theater, Comerica Park, Little Caesar's Arena,
Pine Knob and more. And then, if you think about
that timing, he immediately had to manage you that little
thing you may recall called the pandemic. Remember that, everybody,
and happily. Though now twenty twenty four seems like it's
(03:15):
been a hell of a year for three one three,
from helping to plan and host portions of the NFL
Draft to staging like a mind boggling array of shows
of all kinds. So Howard Handler, it's excellent to welcome you,
my friend.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
I'm so psyched to be together with you.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
I know it's been a while. It's been a while,
so what's it like hearing that career arc? When you
think about the arc of your career, it's a big question.
You know, what comes to mind in terms of kind
of where it started from where it is today.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Well, it's always easier to connect the dots looking backwards.
I never had any notion of, you know, how I
would get from point A to point B.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
For me, it was always you know, kind of thread
to five year horizons. I guess that's what I was
able to think about. But I'm really proud of what
I've accomplished, and mostly it's been about fun and building
(04:19):
things and working with great people.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
So before and I like that idea, I'll come back
to that three to five year because it's so hard
in this world today to even think about planning farther
than that. This world is so crazy all the time.
But tell before we get into more about your world,
for those that aren't as familiar with three one three,
just tell them a little bit about your gig today,
because it's such an exciting one I feel like.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Well. Three one three is an integrated venue promoter with
a pretty large footprint. Our mission is to provide access
to amazing entertainment and the live moments inspired by the
soul of Detroit. So we're we're here to tickle people's
(05:06):
funny you know, funny bone and pleasure spot and send
some good vibes into the world.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
It is amazing, especially post COVID, turning around and looking
at at what happens to an audience as well as
looking at what's happening on a stage. And it's just
really fun to be in the business of entertaining people.
(05:39):
Our six venues exist in downtown Detroit and around southeastern Michigan.
A good part of what we do represents an economic
engine to the city of Detroit, and that's really important
(05:59):
because Detroit is a Renaissance city and it was a
big part of the reason why I came home, as
I wanted to dive in and be a part of
this rebirth and renewal.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
It's been really exciting. But yeah, that's a good it's
a little bit of a flavor.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Yeah, it was interesting, you know, knowing you as I
did from the East Coast when we were working with
Virgin Mobile, and you were mostly on the East Coast
in all of those jobs, it was kind of amazing
to notice that you'd gone back to Michigan. And I've
told Howard this before, but I was born in Toledo, Ohio,
and that's where most of my mom's family's from, so
I'm there quite often and just down Interstate seventy five
(06:40):
from Detroit, and so Detroit has always been big in
my imagination, Toledo being a much smaller city. So I
definitely want to get into before we're going to talk
a little bit about other parts of your career, but
I'm going to circle back because Detroit there's a lot
to talk about there, especially with what you guys have
been up to, and a lot to think about relative
to it being its own brand in a way. But
(07:00):
how did you how did you even embark on the
sort of marketing field you went after undergrad went and
got your MBA. You know what inspired you to do that?
And you know what kind of got you kicked off
in the beginning.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
Well, I studied economics and history as an undergrad, and
when it came time to think about what came next,
what was going to come next in the midst of
my senior year, I was honestly a bit terrified at
(07:35):
the prospect of, you know, entering the real world. And
I wanted to be in school for a little bit
longer and try to figure things out. So I kind
of talked my way into business school.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
I was first rejected, well, I was rejected by Northwestern
Artmouth as well as Michigan, and you know, even back
in those times, they wanted people to get into the
(08:13):
working world before they came back to get an MBA.
But I told this story about how I wanted to
get an MBA because I wanted to be in the
food business and that was going to really help elevate
my thinking and teach some skills, and they bought it.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
Now, I did legitimately have a great interest in the
food business, and that would be the first job that
I that I took out of business school, you know,
working for the Quake Roads Company, which laid an incredible foundation.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
But I think more broadly marketing and.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
The path that I chose was based on growing up
in front of the television, listening to every single band
that I could get exposed to, going to live concerts,
and just really loving you know, music and pop culture
and comedy. And I just never had any notion growing
(09:25):
up in Detroit in the sixties and seventies that people
could actually have jobs that somehow related to those things.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
You know, there was nobody in show business in Detroit.
I mean, you know, there were probably a few, but
for the most part, that just kind of seemed like
this other world. And you know, I'm obviously dating myself
even by saying the sixties and seventies.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
But it's like, you know, the world was a lot
flatter and smaller back in those days. You didn't have
access to the Internet and every single bit of information
or knowledge and our fingertips, and so you have to
learn things by talking to other people and doing research
(10:14):
and you know, letting your world unfold as opposed to
you know, everything was possible all at once.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Yeah, it's funny what you're saying that because the time
period you're talking about, you know, Motown hadn't become quite
the machine it became later, you know, and where suddenly
entertainment was there in the Motor City too in that
same way. But you're reminded me too about the fact
that there's so much when I do when I go
back to my alma mater and talk about marketing, branding,
(10:46):
advertising comms, right, and that is more of a liberal
art liberal arts institution there's so many aspects of the
careers that you and I have had that's kind of invisible.
Like sometimes culture will pop up, like mad Men will
become a thing or Samantha on Sex in the City,
it's like, oh, pr right, But it's interesting like your
(11:06):
sense of now looking back to say, what were those
aspects of culture that got you excited about? Wow? Could
I be in that world? But I love also this
story about the rejections because I feel like when you're
doing the college thing or graduate school or first job,
everything seems so important, and then the farther you get
in your career, the more everyone's like, doesn't even know
(11:28):
where you went to school or what happens. So I
think it's really cool to talk about the rejections. And
also the story you told us, say I belong here,
you know, that's really interesting. So you taunt about PEPSI
and as I said when I first met you, as
kind of glamored by Broadway Video sn L you know,
like you know, and all these these other pieces that
(11:50):
got my attention when I saw or heard about your
resume because this was pre LinkedIn as well. But you
did start really in that class consumer package goods brand
manager space, which is work I've done in my past too.
What were the lessons you took away there? Like that
must have been such a crash course in the most
classic forms of marketing.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Yeah, it was definitely boot camp.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
As as a marketers, as a as a general manager.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
It was.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
It was just an absolute blast. I actually did an
internship at the Quake Roads Company in Chicago in between
my first year and second year of business school, and
it's funny we talked about rejection. I went to New York.
I had a girlfriend there at the time. I thought like,
(12:46):
I'm going to go to work for General Foods or Pepsi,
which did not own the Quake Roads Company until you know,
much later, And I had every door slammed in my face,
so many no's. And it was funny because I bumped
into my uncle who's from Chicago in New York on
(13:10):
Central Park South. It was so crazy, and he was like, well,
why didn't you look in Chicago and do a little
research and you know, check out the Quake Growths Company.
And that just seemed really interesting to me because they
had some terrific brands and they had three internships. And
(13:35):
I talked to somebody that went to the University of Michigan,
and he told me the person to talk to and
at first the person was like, well, you know, it's
nice to talk to you, but we're not taking any
of our interns from the University of Michigan. And you know,
so I talked my way into that situation. But you know,
(13:59):
I ended up going back there full time after I
was done with business school. I felt like I learned
everything about running a consumer business. I learned about all
the different ps of you know, pricing and promotion and
I mean I learned about well distribution place. I learned
(14:22):
how to work with advertising agencies and create ads and
measuring business and our sales, and importantly, I learned how
to think about the entire.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
P and L.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
That was one of the coolest things about brand management
is that they gave you a ton of responsibility.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
At an early age. You worked in teams, so there
were training wheels for sure, and there were layers of
management to kind of protect things. But it's like, by
the time I was twenty eight years old, I was
running a seventy million dollar business.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
And yes, it kind of mind blowing, but you know,
you're working with other people who you know, were really
hungry and really ambitious, and you know, went to good
schools and so there was a.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Kind of a natural competition. The bar was really high.
I remember, you know, the first time I got exposed
to people who didn't make the cut, who got fired.
So it was you know, reasonably stressful, but it was
a blast. I mean we were all kind of the
(15:44):
same life stage. We're working with like cap'n Crunch and
Kibbles and Bits and you know, life cereal and granola
bars and all this stuff, and for us that was
a connection to pop culture.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
I got to travel around and you know, start to
see you know, the rest of the country, and it
was just amazing how steep the learning curve was and
just you know what I was able to understand. But
what's interesting is I felt like a lot of those
(16:25):
lessons dawned.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
On me later in my career. You know that you
look back on your foundation and you're taking things from it,
and that was also very valuable.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Yeah, it's the hindsight is twenty twenty. Thing is real,
you know, with these cliches are real for a reason.
But so it's interesting, Like twice already you talked about
where you've had to kind of talk yourself into something,
not yourself but other people. You're literally talking yourself into
a space, which reminds me of storytelling. It's like how
(16:59):
do people create their own narrative about what's important? And
it's also a form of advertising and marketing. What where
did you get that skill? I mean you, I know you,
and you are incredible the way you can talk with
people and connect with people and make really human connection
with them. But what are some aspects that you've seen
in yourself that you were able to sell yourself at
those critical moments to kind of open doors that were
(17:21):
closed at the time.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
I guess, I guess.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
For me, And again like you gain self awareness as
you get you know.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
A little bit a little bit older. But I feel
like I just I led with passion and enthusiasm and
and my energy. I really just tried hard to be
as persuasive as possible. You know, my dad, one of
(17:54):
the great heroic figures in my life.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Was was a lawyer, and so you know, breaking down
an argument, being logical, being thoughtful, being a good communicator.
I think are things that you know, hopefully I've taken
from him. My dad just turned ninety in June, which
is pretty amazing. But I do think that that if.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
You really want something, you know, you figure out a
way to sell and be persuasive, and it doesn't always work,
you know, So so getting a door slammed in your
face doesn't feel good, but there's something to learn from that.
(18:45):
And and you know, do you have a certain amount
of tenacity? Are you willing to be persistent?
Speaker 4 (18:54):
And I don't know, I just I think a lot
of those things help help me, you know, get to
where I needed to be.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
I did. I don't. I don't feel like I had
like an imposter syndrome.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
But I always did fancy myself as a little bit
of an overachiever. I grew up with some people and
it's it's like one of those funny old things, but
it's like I remember a couple of my friends didn't
have to study so hard or at all, and they
could just get a's.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
And I knew that I was the type of person
that I had to do my homework.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
I had to work really hard and I and I
you know, I was never ashamed of that. I was like,
I will outwork you.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
You know.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
So that persistence and tenacity and work ethic were probably
part of it as well.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
So powerful you remind me of the enthusiasm, you know,
speaking of culture Lynn Manuel Miranda, you know, obviously brilliant
Broadway guy. He jokes about having no chill, you know
that he was like just so enthusiastic about stuff, and
that always struck me because I'm certainly a bit like
that too, where it's like I'm just really into things,
very enthusiastic, i always want to do more. And I
(20:15):
felt that from you in terms of just that, Like
I talked about that infectious energy and the ability. You know,
they talk in business about followership, about getting people to
follow you, and do you feel like that kind of enthusiasm,
optimism or engagement helps in that.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
I mean he can be infectious for sure. You know,
if you are a manager, you have to motivate other
people and so you know, again it comes back to
some form of selling, but getting people to believe. And
(20:50):
I don't know, I mean it was it was.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
Something that my late father in law used to, you know,
kind of tease me about a little bit. You know,
he said, uh, one time, you know, because it's like
I'm you know, the brand manager for Quaker Chewy granola
bars and Life Cereal and those were like the most
(21:17):
important thing. And then it's about Saturday Night Live and
it's the Church Lady and Hans and Franz and Wayne's World.
And he said, you know, man, he said, you know,
if if you were the president of the PTL network
(21:38):
for for those that need the historical background, that's the
praise the Lord Network. He's like, I could sell that,
which you know I took as a bit of a
backhanded compliment, so that was okay.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
But yeah, I mean, you.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Know when my daugh were for Nibisco, I was I
was kind of told the Keebler Elves were the devil.
So you know, you gotta love the brand that you're with, right,
I mean, you got it. You gotta ride for your brands.
Speaking of you know, SNL and you were working with
Lauren and Broadway Video at a time where what a
(22:16):
legendary era. I mean, Mike Meyer's, Dana Carvey, Chris Farley,
the beautiful Phil Hartman, Adam Sandler. I mean, it just
goes went to meadows, it goes on and on with
and Wayne's World about to come out. I think right
around the time you were moving on but was that
such a hard left turn from consumer package good? It's like,
was that how did you end up there? And was
(22:39):
that a little bit like, Wow, I have to reset
my brain in this completely different environment.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Well it was.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
It was a pretty big change.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
I guess. I did really and truly love being at
the Quake Roads Company and being this consumer marketing guy.
But along the way my world, my network started to
expand and I actually did need people who were in
(23:10):
the entertainment business and created some pretty deep relationships. And
one of those people, a guy named Eric ellen Bogan,
was like, you must be in show business. And I
was like, yeah, you know, I set this goal for myself.
He wanted me to go right away, just skip Quaker
(23:33):
and go right into the entertainment business. And I was like,
you know, I set this goal for myself. I really
want to be a brand manager. That's going to take
me a few years. I want to get as much
as I can out of this experience. I was committed
to going to Chicago. You know, kid from Detroit. Chicago's
the big city, really really fun, vibrant city. I got
(23:59):
to Chicago in the fall of eighty five.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
Okay, the Bears won the super Bowl, you know, in
January of eighty six. I mean, that was a pretty
exciting time to be at Chicago but Doll Bears. But
and I would have a full circle experience at SNEL
with Bill Swarsky super fans, the Bills, the Bulls, the Bears.
(24:27):
But you know, Eric ultimately was somebody that I built
a relationship with. Over time, he would go from being
a Hollywood producer to being the head of Broadway Video.
And so there was a time when he said, Okay,
(24:51):
I got the job for you. You're gonna be the VP
of Marketing at Broadway Video.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
And I was a brand man at that point. I
did not really get too excited about the additional layers
and steps on the ladder at a big company like
the Quake Growth Company. And I was like, wow, Broadway Video,
this is Lawren Michael's little independent production company.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Eric and Lorne had assembled this really core crew of
really talented people, and they would all go on to
do some pretty incredible things. I had absolutely no idea
what the VP of Marketing for Broadway Video would would
be responsible for. But I was like, I'm game, Let's
(25:45):
take the plunge. My wife Wenny and I were at
that stage of life where we're like, hey, why not,
let's take our shot. We didn't have kids, we didn't
have much of a mortgage. It didn't seem like there
was any downside, and so we picked up.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
And moved to New York. And you know, it was
like dragging a desk into an empty office.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
Eric had some aspirations and Lorn articulated a bit of
what he was willing to explore, and I was able
to dive in and you know, build a merchandising business,
do publishing home video for anybody that remembers VHS tapes, and.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
You know, that was that was my introduction to show business.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
And it was you know, life cereal one day and
and you know, tutsas the driving cat and you know,
Hans and Franz the next day. What's interesting is that
nobody cared about an MBA or where I went to school,
(26:58):
or the Quaker Oats company. It was actually when I
started to meet the cast and the writers, I knew
just instinctively that they could have cared less about any
of that.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
And so it was a big hard turn, and I
did have to be a really good chameleon and adjust,
and you know, pick up the cues and it's like,
how do they speak to each other? What are they
interested in? I have to do a little bit of
my own diagnostic thing to understand, you know, what would
(27:33):
be success, what was Eric looking for? And ultimately my
relationship became more direct with Lorne and as anybody who's
ever worked around SNL would know, he's the guy. He's
making any and all big decisions. He's in charge of
(27:58):
the brand. It's his sensibility. And I had to figure
that out and it wasn't easy. I definitely, you know,
ran into the wall a couple of times, but I
felt like I was an environment where you know, I could,
I could learn, and if I accomplished the things along
the way, they'd let me stick around.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
And I feel like that was a time. If people
think back, you know, folks of different ages have to remember,
this is before YouTube existed. There was no Lazy Sunday,
you know, with Andy Samberg and those guys kind of
changed the nature of SNL wasn't so ubiquitous. There was
no social media. But I feel like you guys were
doing some of the first omni channel stuff where you
were breaking it out into different places. I was also
(28:42):
obsessed with kids in the hall, which was something that
Lauren helped with a great deal. But one of the
things that really struck me, Howard, it reminds me of
something you talked about your dad. My dad used to
stay to me when I was growing up, don't travel
too late, and he meant people. He meant, don't be
so quick to leave people behind. I like stay connected.
One of my mentors, Ralph Katz, is one of the
(29:03):
most brilliant people ever, keeps people with him all the time.
But it feels like in that relationship with Eric, you
maybe ascribe to the same thing, because I feel like
that even the way you and I were catching up
and talking about with this person that person, How does
that phrase strike you, not traveling too late when it
comes to people in your career?
Speaker 4 (29:21):
I love that expression, you know, for me and I
share this with my wife Wendy as well, is relationships
are everything. They are treasures, and those treasures are collected
(29:41):
and nurtured. And you know, if if you're lucky, they
can you know, grow and become more valuable over time.
And you know, I've I've been really, really lucky in
terms of the people who were willing to mentor me
(30:03):
and help me see things that at the time I
couldn't see for myself, or you know, teach me some things.
And it's just funny. Over time, at a certain point
it kind of flipped and then I became that person.
And and so the people part, you know, the people part
(30:24):
has been critical, and you know, Laurne Lorne Michaels is
an incredibly quotable person.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
But one of the you know, one of the first
things was like, you know, it's it's it's all about relationships.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
He was right, he was right, and you know, it's
it's it's funny because when I met Adam Sandler, nobody
knew who he was.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
I mean, he he had obviously been a successful comic
and and showed, you know, quite quite a bit of promise.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
Otherwise he wouldn't have made it to thirty Rock. But
he was a more junior member of the cast and
was you know, really hustling to you know, to kind
of get into sketches and to start to make a
name for himself. He came and played Little Caesars Arena
(31:20):
two years ago, and you know, got to spend some
time with him, and you know, we got to have
some laughs that you know, we're not those you know,
kind of young upstarts anymore.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
But it's you know, those relationships.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
That you form early in life, earlier in your career
can and should be valuable to you, you know, much
later in life. And you know, think about the two
of us, you know, we just kind of pick up
where we left.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Off, which is such a I love that relationships for everything.
They're a treasure. By the way, I was secretly hoping
maybe a Lauren Michael's impression would pop out. So it's
just it's just a now thing that happens when you
think about I mean, this is great. And after that,
you know, there was Viacom and NFL, which is what
(32:11):
you did right before I met you, and those are
huge brands too. But I want to I want to
bring us up to the Virgin Mobile era, mostly because
you know, this is podcast is called building Brand Gravity,
all about the idea of what brings you into the gravity,
into the orbit, like what pulls it you. And when
you think about iconic brands and branding, Virgin is such
(32:34):
a It's just massive in that way. And now don't
know how people relate to it who are much younger generations,
And it's different if you're in England or in Britain
versus the US. But in the time that we were
working together, it's just such a juggernaut and Richard's still
out there doing his thing. Richard Branson. I shouldn't have
to say that for anyone but sir Richard Branson. But
what was it like for you joining a Virgin brand
(32:56):
that was just at that moment launching, like it was
a new cell phone company launching the US for the
first time, So the Virgin name was on it. But
it was a new brand, new model, new technology, lots
of headwinds, but there was the Virgin name on it.
What was What did that mean to you coming into
that ecosystem?
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Well, I was a fanboy, you know, Richard Branson was
this heroic aspirational figure for me because you know, fundamentally,
you know, he was a disruptor. I don't think anybody
used those words, you know, used a word like that
(33:37):
back then. I think that's a little bit more of
an Internet age, you know, reference.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
But this was a guy who shook things up and
found opportunity. And I remember the first time I went
into a Virgin megastore. I had never flown on Virgin Atlantic,
but I kind of heard about it and and knew
a little bit, so I was like, wow, I can't
(34:06):
believe that I'm going to get to represent and actually
build a Virgin.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
Brand in the US. What's really interesting, and I think that,
you know, it's easy, it's easy to forget, is that
in the early two thousands, Virgin was not a well
known brand in the United States. You know, record labels,
(34:33):
the brands of record labels don't necessarily mean so much
unless you're a real music nerd. You know, the Motown
label that was a little bit different.
Speaker 4 (34:49):
So Virgin Records certainly had a legacy, but it wasn't
what I would call a consumer brand that had a
promise reason for being. And you know, it was about
the Rolling Stones and Lenny Kravitz and you know, the
Sex Piscols, and you had the Virgin megastores, but there
(35:12):
weren't a lot of those. You know, there were a
handful of those, and you know, really big cities, so
like you know, Urbane, you know, kind of big city
people might have.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Heard a Virgin and Virgin Atlantic. I mean, I hate
to say it, but there's not a high percentage of
people in the United States and even have a passport
much less you know, travel now, it's probably a little
bit more mainstream to travel internationally today, but again back then,
(35:44):
the idea of traveling to London was pretty exotic. So
you had a small percentage of the population that had
some awareness of the Virgin brand. And with Virgin Mobile,
we were trying to create a why almost mass consumer
phenomenon with the cell phone, which didn't really have much penetration.
(36:10):
We were trying to create.
Speaker 4 (36:13):
As the as the Brits would say, a fast moving
consumer product with a mobile phone. You know, up to
that point, mobile phones were behind a glass case. You
had to sign up for a contract, and you know,
Richard's idea and the idea Virgin Mobile that had gotten
(36:37):
started a little bit earlier in the UK and also
in Singapore was we want this to be a very
familiar consumer product that's easily accessible and that has a
bit of a younger sensibility and actually will be targeted
(36:59):
toward junk p because they should have cell phones. Cell
phones will liberate and allow for independence and everything else
like that. So we really had I guess the building
blocks of a cool brand. But it was really up
to us to define it and to and to propagate
(37:22):
it and to build awareness. And so the idea that
we were going to create truly a national brand for
Virgin was like overwhelmingly cool and fun. I mean I
was pinching myself the whole time. You know, I remember
(37:44):
the first time I met Richard. I remember, you know,
flying on Virgin Atlantic, which I felt was truly the
embodiment of everything that he imagined brand experience and everything
else like that. But we had the keys to kingdom,
you know, he gave you know, he gave a bunch
(38:06):
of Americans, you know, a lot of responsibility.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
Let's just say that.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
Yeah, it's amazing to think of at that time and
what was built and what the market was like at
that time, and those lessons that you took away. I
wanted to shift back to your current role where you're president. Now,
you're leading an organization. Has it been and you've done
that more than once in your career, But what prepared
you from your earlier experiences to then take sort of
(38:34):
the leadership role overall? What do you feel like there
was a good all of those different marketing experiences, as
you said, even back at Quaker oats. Knowing the whole
pnel and the whole deal. Do you feel like that
prepared you all over time to take the helm at
the top.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Yeah. I do think it was, you know, in some
ways a little bit back to the future. In brand management,
you are taught to think about the whole business and
that you're not there to just deliver one.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
Thing sales, revenue, or market share. You're there to deliver
the profit. And that's something that never really left me.
It's it's really interesting because there's lots of different accountability
that marketing leaders can have. Some marketing leaders are, you know,
(39:29):
purely about Marcom and so so the metrics that they
might be responsible for relate to that that set of
that part of the mix. I was always a little
bit more of a line marketer, where I had revenue.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
And in some cases profit.
Speaker 4 (39:49):
So when I was at the NFL, I oversaw marketing,
but I also had the publishing business, and I had
we called it direct commerce because at first it was catalogs,
and then it was this thing called e commerce, and
we built the NFL Shop, which has turned into this
(40:13):
ginormous business like all things NFL. And I had the
publishing business and you know, and those were actual you know, revenue,
cost profit. I had to be accountable for that. When
I was at Virgin, I had sales and product, and
(40:35):
so I had different pieces of the P and L.
And Dan Schulman, the CEO, good friend of both of ours,
would would go on to be the CEO of PayPal.
He felt as CEO that his role was certainly to
(40:55):
lead the company, but he placed a very high priority
in terms of giving us context and making sure that
we could see how all the piece is connected together. So, yeah,
I was Chief Marketing Officer, and there was the COO,
and there was the head of technology, and there was
a CFO. But as a leadership team, we were always focused.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
On the P and L and it was all about like, okay,
what part were you responsible for, what were you contributing to?
How would you compliment and help the other people that
were delivering the whole thing. And so Dan as a
CEO was.
Speaker 4 (41:40):
Truly like a band leader and we were all there
to make music, but we could all see what he
was doing. And so for me to become president of
three point three Presents, first of all, it was my
goal to get back to running a whole business I
love being a CMO, but I really I was kind
(42:03):
of hungry to own the whole business and the P
and L, and so it was kind of a natural transition,
you know. And again it's like, it isn't a difficult
transition for being a line marketer that has to deliver
real metrics to being a president or CEO that has
(42:26):
to worry about the whole P and L.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Those are good lessons those people shape their career. You know,
what do you understand your accountability to be even if
you're not given the P and L? How do you
make those connections and feel that responsibility for it. I'd
interviewed another person for this podcast series who talked about
chief communications. Folks need to see that their business is
the business of the business and revenue. So I love
that connection. As we start to wind down, because you've
(42:51):
been so generous with your time, Howard, what do you
think about brand Detroit? For so Detroit just has an
outside I think role in a lot of people's imagination
and sometimes in recent decades it's been really hard, like
Detroit has had to take so much negative baggage more
than it deserved. I feel like, and now it's been
(43:13):
really energizing for me, and I know so many other
people and I don't even live there to see that
sort of energy, as you said, a renaissance city. But
how do you think about Detroit as a brand and
where's that brand today?
Speaker 3 (43:24):
Well, Detroit is a legendary brand, and anybody that's that's
born here or out of town and from here is
shaped by a bunch of powerful things. Detroit gave the
(43:48):
United States for sure, and some would argue the world
the car, and the car was about, you know, freedom
and discovery and exploration. You know, Detroit gave the world
motown and house music and punk and like all kinds
of things. And so, you know, living out of town,
(44:14):
living in New York in particular for thirty years, it
never left me in terms of, you know, what made
me and where I was from, and you know, wherever
I traveled.
Speaker 4 (44:28):
In the US or North America or the world, it's like,
you know, where are you're from.
Speaker 3 (44:33):
You're from Detroit.
Speaker 4 (44:34):
And people would always be like, oh, wow, Detroit, and
they would talk about oh, I'm a car guy, or
oh my god, Marvin Gay or or Iggy Pop or
you know, and so it's like, yeah, that was a
foundation and you know, this was also the place where
people can get union jobs and make a living, and
(44:58):
you know, but it all came crashing down and and
so part of the legacy and what we've had to
deal with was the decline, the bankruptcy, and there's some
hard times and and you know, for a while people
(45:20):
were caught up in the political dysfunction, urban decay.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
The bankruptcy was was really you know, the low point.
But what was striking to me, and one of the
reasons why it was so exciting for me to come
home was there were a lot of people that were
not willing to let this city go.
Speaker 5 (45:45):
And and people like Mike Illich in the early days
and later on, Dan Gilbert, the Ford family, Steve Ross,
Tom Gores.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
A bunch of people said, wait a second.
Speaker 4 (46:03):
This is is one of the greatest cities in America,
and we believe in it.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
We want to build it back.
Speaker 4 (46:11):
And and so these last decade decade and a half
has been this incredible renaissance, and you have these kind
of touchstone experiences that have that have and moments that
have happened.
Speaker 3 (46:25):
I was here for the NFL Draft, and that made
people look at Detroit and go whoa look.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
At that was a big moment.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
Yeah, look look at the city. The city's on its
way back.
Speaker 4 (46:35):
And then you know, most recently the reopening of Michigan
Central and you know the care and and and the
passion and the commitment that you know, the Ford family
put into bringing this thing back. And this is what's
really fun is that is it kind of people leaning
(46:55):
together and are trying to re established the legacy of innovation,
great design, music.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
What an awesome time for you to come back despite
the pandemic, which I know is not easy, but here
you are now just having just an incredible you know,
if people go to three one three percents website, if
you're in the area, you see just an incredible array
of stuff going on. Last question, Howard, what brands or
parts of culture have you and there gravity right now?
(47:27):
Anything cool that you've been paying attention to recently?
Speaker 4 (47:31):
There's a really cool Japanese outdoor brand called Snowpeak. I'm
kind of like an outdoor wilderness athletic type, incredible design,
super cool, I niche and growing clothing.
Speaker 3 (47:50):
Brand that I love. Matt Happy just did this this
capsule collection with the gap that people are freaking out
over the Olympics.
Speaker 4 (47:58):
Is a brand is bad, Paris as a brand is back,
Kamala as a brand is.
Speaker 3 (48:07):
Revitalized. I don't know.
Speaker 4 (48:09):
I'm a brand junkie, so I'm always, you know, I'm
always kind of thinking about about all this stuff. The
cool thing about what I get to do with three
one three percents. I mean, we do about three hundred
and fifty shows a year across our various six venues,
and we're starting to branch out. Is all these artists
(48:29):
are brands with distinct audiences, and it's just fascinating. You know,
every single night, who's coming to see what artists? And
it's amazing to see an artist really build their audience.
And to go from one of our smaller amphitheaters to
(48:53):
maybe the Fox Theater, the Little Caesars Arena, the Comerica Park.
Speaker 3 (48:59):
It's like I've already seen. I've already seen Chris Stapleton
go from you know, pineab to headlining his own show
at Comerica Park. It's a blast. So I'll forever be
passionate about brands.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
I love it well, Howard Handler, thank you so much
for your time.
Speaker 5 (49:17):
Jay.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
This is an awesome conversation. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (49:20):
Thank you, Anne love being a part of this.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
We are GNS Business Communications. We are a team of
media strategists, storytellers, and engagement experts who meet you at
the intersection of business and communications. To learn more, visit
gscommunications dot com. You are listening to building brand gravity,
attracting people into your orbit a GNS Business Communications podcast.
(49:47):
Keep connected with us by subscribing to the show in
your favorite podcast player. If you like what you've heard,
please rate the show that helps us to keep delivering
the latest in industry influence. Thanks for listen. Until next time.
So what does the concept of brand mean to you?
It's such an often used word, but it's got a
pretty deep set of meanings. And one thing that's always
interesting to me is how the concept of a brand
evolves over the course of your career if you happen
to work in these types of fields. Which is why
it's been really exciting for me to have the chance
(00:28):
to talk to an old friend, an old colleague, Howard Handler,
and I'm excited to share this conversation with you today.
We talk about in the incredible arc of his career
and what it meant to go from working with a
quicker roads company to suddenly working with Laurene Michaels and
marketing Saturday Night Live and all the properties of Broadway
Video and a million things after that, including Virgion Mobile
(00:50):
where I met him, and on and on to working
at an incredible entertainment company in Detroit today. But there's
a lot of lessons he has to share. One of
the central ones, as he put it, is relationships are everything.
They are treasures, and you're going to hear that come
through really strongly in this conversation. So sit back and listen,
(01:10):
and if you enjoy what you're here, share it with
another friend. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
You are listening to Building Brand Gravity Attracting People into
your Orbit, a GNS Business Communications podcast. This is a
show for communications pros across industries looking to gain an
inside of view into industry influence. You're about to hear
a conversation with leading industry professionals talking about the importance
(01:43):
of building business impact through sound brand strategy. Let's get
into the show.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Hello, and welcome to Building Brand Gravity. I'm Anne Green,
CEO at GNS Business Communications, and my guest and I
first met back in two thousand and three. He joined
my then client, Virgin Mobile USA, not long after its launch,
and I have to say I was a bit obsessed
with his resume at the time. He was coming from
senior brand and marketing roles at major players like Broadway
(02:11):
Video that's Lauren Michael's company for those who don't know,
Viacom and NFL, and it kind of it kind of
made me nervous to meet him, admittedly, but that immediately
fell away. He's laughing already as soon as I experienced
his warmth and his energy and his infectious positive spirit.
The client agency relationship can be tense at times, but
(02:32):
he treats everyone like a core member of the team
and like family. So he went on to lead other
marketing roles at illustrious brands like EMI and MSG and
Major League Soccer. That's the last time we saw each
other in person was when you were at MLS. And
then in twenty nineteen, he returned to his native Michigan
to take the president role at three one to three
(02:52):
per Cents, which is Detroit's premier live entertainment company, overseeing
six venues from the Fox Theater, Comerica Park, Little Caesar's Arena,
Pine Knob and more. And then, if you think about
that timing, he immediately had to manage you that little
thing you may recall called the pandemic. Remember that, everybody,
and happily. Though now twenty twenty four seems like it's
(03:15):
been a hell of a year for three one three,
from helping to plan and host portions of the NFL
Draft to staging like a mind boggling array of shows
of all kinds. So Howard Handler, it's excellent to welcome you,
my friend.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
I'm so psyched to be together with you.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
I know it's been a while. It's been a while,
so what's it like hearing that career arc? When you
think about the arc of your career, it's a big question.
You know, what comes to mind in terms of kind
of where it started from where it is today.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Well, it's always easier to connect the dots looking backwards.
I never had any notion of, you know, how I
would get from point A to point B.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
For me, it was always you know, kind of thread
to five year horizons. I guess that's what I was
able to think about. But I'm really proud of what
I've accomplished, and mostly it's been about fun and building
(04:19):
things and working with great people.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
So before and I like that idea, I'll come back
to that three to five year because it's so hard
in this world today to even think about planning farther
than that. This world is so crazy all the time.
But tell before we get into more about your world,
for those that aren't as familiar with three one three,
just tell them a little bit about your gig today,
because it's such an exciting one I feel like.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Well. Three one three is an integrated venue promoter with
a pretty large footprint. Our mission is to provide access
to amazing entertainment and the live moments inspired by the
soul of Detroit. So we're we're here to tickle people's
(05:06):
funny you know, funny bone and pleasure spot and send
some good vibes into the world.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
It is amazing, especially post COVID, turning around and looking
at at what happens to an audience as well as
looking at what's happening on a stage. And it's just
really fun to be in the business of entertaining people.
(05:39):
Our six venues exist in downtown Detroit and around southeastern Michigan.
A good part of what we do represents an economic
engine to the city of Detroit, and that's really important
(05:59):
because Detroit is a Renaissance city and it was a
big part of the reason why I came home, as
I wanted to dive in and be a part of
this rebirth and renewal.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
It's been really exciting. But yeah, that's a good it's
a little bit of a flavor.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Yeah, it was interesting, you know, knowing you as I
did from the East Coast when we were working with
Virgin Mobile, and you were mostly on the East Coast
in all of those jobs, it was kind of amazing
to notice that you'd gone back to Michigan. And I've
told Howard this before, but I was born in Toledo, Ohio,
and that's where most of my mom's family's from, so
I'm there quite often and just down Interstate seventy five
(06:40):
from Detroit, and so Detroit has always been big in
my imagination, Toledo being a much smaller city. So I
definitely want to get into before we're going to talk
a little bit about other parts of your career, but
I'm going to circle back because Detroit there's a lot
to talk about there, especially with what you guys have
been up to, and a lot to think about relative
to it being its own brand in a way. But
(07:00):
how did you how did you even embark on the
sort of marketing field you went after undergrad went and
got your MBA. You know what inspired you to do that?
And you know what kind of got you kicked off
in the beginning.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
Well, I studied economics and history as an undergrad, and
when it came time to think about what came next,
what was going to come next in the midst of
my senior year, I was honestly a bit terrified at
(07:35):
the prospect of, you know, entering the real world. And
I wanted to be in school for a little bit
longer and try to figure things out. So I kind
of talked my way into business school.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
I was first rejected, well, I was rejected by Northwestern
Artmouth as well as Michigan, and you know, even back
in those times, they wanted people to get into the
(08:13):
working world before they came back to get an MBA.
But I told this story about how I wanted to
get an MBA because I wanted to be in the
food business and that was going to really help elevate
my thinking and teach some skills, and they bought it.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
Now, I did legitimately have a great interest in the
food business, and that would be the first job that
I that I took out of business school, you know,
working for the Quake Roads Company, which laid an incredible foundation.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
But I think more broadly marketing and.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
The path that I chose was based on growing up
in front of the television, listening to every single band
that I could get exposed to, going to live concerts,
and just really loving you know, music and pop culture
and comedy. And I just never had any notion growing
(09:25):
up in Detroit in the sixties and seventies that people
could actually have jobs that somehow related to those things.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
You know, there was nobody in show business in Detroit.
I mean, you know, there were probably a few, but
for the most part, that just kind of seemed like
this other world. And you know, I'm obviously dating myself
even by saying the sixties and seventies.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
But it's like, you know, the world was a lot
flatter and smaller back in those days. You didn't have
access to the Internet and every single bit of information
or knowledge and our fingertips, and so you have to
learn things by talking to other people and doing research
(10:14):
and you know, letting your world unfold as opposed to
you know, everything was possible all at once.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Yeah, it's funny what you're saying that because the time
period you're talking about, you know, Motown hadn't become quite
the machine it became later, you know, and where suddenly
entertainment was there in the Motor City too in that
same way. But you're reminded me too about the fact
that there's so much when I do when I go
back to my alma mater and talk about marketing, branding,
(10:46):
advertising comms, right, and that is more of a liberal
art liberal arts institution there's so many aspects of the
careers that you and I have had that's kind of invisible.
Like sometimes culture will pop up, like mad Men will
become a thing or Samantha on Sex in the City,
it's like, oh, pr right, But it's interesting like your
(11:06):
sense of now looking back to say, what were those
aspects of culture that got you excited about? Wow? Could
I be in that world? But I love also this
story about the rejections because I feel like when you're
doing the college thing or graduate school or first job,
everything seems so important, and then the farther you get
in your career, the more everyone's like, doesn't even know
(11:28):
where you went to school or what happens. So I
think it's really cool to talk about the rejections. And
also the story you told us, say I belong here,
you know, that's really interesting. So you taunt about PEPSI
and as I said when I first met you, as
kind of glamored by Broadway Video sn L you know,
like you know, and all these these other pieces that
(11:50):
got my attention when I saw or heard about your
resume because this was pre LinkedIn as well. But you
did start really in that class consumer package goods brand
manager space, which is work I've done in my past too.
What were the lessons you took away there? Like that
must have been such a crash course in the most
classic forms of marketing.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Yeah, it was definitely boot camp.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
As as a marketers, as a as a general manager.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
It was.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
It was just an absolute blast. I actually did an
internship at the Quake Roads Company in Chicago in between
my first year and second year of business school, and
it's funny we talked about rejection. I went to New York.
I had a girlfriend there at the time. I thought like,
(12:46):
I'm going to go to work for General Foods or Pepsi,
which did not own the Quake Roads Company until you know,
much later, And I had every door slammed in my face,
so many no's. And it was funny because I bumped
into my uncle who's from Chicago in New York on
(13:10):
Central Park South. It was so crazy, and he was like, well,
why didn't you look in Chicago and do a little
research and you know, check out the Quake Growths Company.
And that just seemed really interesting to me because they
had some terrific brands and they had three internships. And
(13:35):
I talked to somebody that went to the University of Michigan,
and he told me the person to talk to and
at first the person was like, well, you know, it's
nice to talk to you, but we're not taking any
of our interns from the University of Michigan. And you know,
so I talked my way into that situation. But you know,
(13:59):
I ended up going back there full time after I
was done with business school. I felt like I learned
everything about running a consumer business. I learned about all
the different ps of you know, pricing and promotion and
I mean I learned about well distribution place. I learned
(14:22):
how to work with advertising agencies and create ads and
measuring business and our sales, and importantly, I learned how
to think about the entire.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
P and L.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
That was one of the coolest things about brand management
is that they gave you a ton of responsibility.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
At an early age. You worked in teams, so there
were training wheels for sure, and there were layers of
management to kind of protect things. But it's like, by
the time I was twenty eight years old, I was
running a seventy million dollar business.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
And yes, it kind of mind blowing, but you know,
you're working with other people who you know, were really
hungry and really ambitious, and you know, went to good
schools and so there was a.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Kind of a natural competition. The bar was really high.
I remember, you know, the first time I got exposed
to people who didn't make the cut, who got fired.
So it was you know, reasonably stressful, but it was
a blast. I mean we were all kind of the
(15:44):
same life stage. We're working with like cap'n Crunch and
Kibbles and Bits and you know, life cereal and granola
bars and all this stuff, and for us that was
a connection to pop culture.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
I got to travel around and you know, start to
see you know, the rest of the country, and it
was just amazing how steep the learning curve was and
just you know what I was able to understand. But
what's interesting is I felt like a lot of those
(16:25):
lessons dawned.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
On me later in my career. You know that you
look back on your foundation and you're taking things from it,
and that was also very valuable.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Yeah, it's the hindsight is twenty twenty. Thing is real,
you know, with these cliches are real for a reason.
But so it's interesting, Like twice already you talked about
where you've had to kind of talk yourself into something,
not yourself but other people. You're literally talking yourself into
a space, which reminds me of storytelling. It's like how
(16:59):
do people create their own narrative about what's important? And
it's also a form of advertising and marketing. What where
did you get that skill? I mean you, I know you,
and you are incredible the way you can talk with
people and connect with people and make really human connection
with them. But what are some aspects that you've seen
in yourself that you were able to sell yourself at
those critical moments to kind of open doors that were
(17:21):
closed at the time.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
I guess, I guess.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
For me, And again like you gain self awareness as
you get you know.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
A little bit a little bit older. But I feel
like I just I led with passion and enthusiasm and
and my energy. I really just tried hard to be
as persuasive as possible. You know, my dad, one of
(17:54):
the great heroic figures in my life.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Was was a lawyer, and so you know, breaking down
an argument, being logical, being thoughtful, being a good communicator.
I think are things that you know, hopefully I've taken
from him. My dad just turned ninety in June, which
is pretty amazing. But I do think that that if.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
You really want something, you know, you figure out a
way to sell and be persuasive, and it doesn't always work,
you know, So so getting a door slammed in your
face doesn't feel good, but there's something to learn from that.
(18:45):
And and you know, do you have a certain amount
of tenacity? Are you willing to be persistent?
Speaker 4 (18:54):
And I don't know, I just I think a lot
of those things help help me, you know, get to
where I needed to be.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
I did. I don't. I don't feel like I had
like an imposter syndrome.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
But I always did fancy myself as a little bit
of an overachiever. I grew up with some people and
it's it's like one of those funny old things, but
it's like I remember a couple of my friends didn't
have to study so hard or at all, and they
could just get a's.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
And I knew that I was the type of person
that I had to do my homework.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
I had to work really hard and I and I
you know, I was never ashamed of that. I was like,
I will outwork you.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
You know.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
So that persistence and tenacity and work ethic were probably
part of it as well.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
So powerful you remind me of the enthusiasm, you know,
speaking of culture Lynn Manuel Miranda, you know, obviously brilliant
Broadway guy. He jokes about having no chill, you know
that he was like just so enthusiastic about stuff, and
that always struck me because I'm certainly a bit like
that too, where it's like I'm just really into things,
very enthusiastic, i always want to do more. And I
(20:15):
felt that from you in terms of just that, Like
I talked about that infectious energy and the ability. You know,
they talk in business about followership, about getting people to
follow you, and do you feel like that kind of enthusiasm,
optimism or engagement helps in that.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
I mean he can be infectious for sure. You know,
if you are a manager, you have to motivate other
people and so you know, again it comes back to
some form of selling, but getting people to believe. And
(20:50):
I don't know, I mean it was it was.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
Something that my late father in law used to, you know,
kind of tease me about a little bit. You know,
he said, uh, one time, you know, because it's like
I'm you know, the brand manager for Quaker Chewy granola
bars and Life Cereal and those were like the most
(21:17):
important thing. And then it's about Saturday Night Live and
it's the Church Lady and Hans and Franz and Wayne's World.
And he said, you know, man, he said, you know,
if if you were the president of the PTL network
(21:38):
for for those that need the historical background, that's the
praise the Lord Network. He's like, I could sell that,
which you know I took as a bit of a
backhanded compliment, so that was okay.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
But yeah, I mean, you.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Know when my daugh were for Nibisco, I was I
was kind of told the Keebler Elves were the devil.
So you know, you gotta love the brand that you're with, right,
I mean, you got it. You gotta ride for your brands.
Speaking of you know, SNL and you were working with
Lauren and Broadway Video at a time where what a
(22:16):
legendary era. I mean, Mike Meyer's, Dana Carvey, Chris Farley,
the beautiful Phil Hartman, Adam Sandler. I mean, it just
goes went to meadows, it goes on and on with
and Wayne's World about to come out. I think right
around the time you were moving on but was that
such a hard left turn from consumer package good? It's like,
was that how did you end up there? And was
(22:39):
that a little bit like, Wow, I have to reset
my brain in this completely different environment.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Well it was.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
It was a pretty big change.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
I guess. I did really and truly love being at
the Quake Roads Company and being this consumer marketing guy.
But along the way my world, my network started to
expand and I actually did need people who were in
(23:10):
the entertainment business and created some pretty deep relationships. And
one of those people, a guy named Eric ellen Bogan,
was like, you must be in show business. And I
was like, yeah, you know, I set this goal for myself.
He wanted me to go right away, just skip Quaker
(23:33):
and go right into the entertainment business. And I was like,
you know, I set this goal for myself. I really
want to be a brand manager. That's going to take
me a few years. I want to get as much
as I can out of this experience. I was committed
to going to Chicago. You know, kid from Detroit. Chicago's
the big city, really really fun, vibrant city. I got
(23:59):
to Chicago in the fall of eighty five.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
Okay, the Bears won the super Bowl, you know, in
January of eighty six. I mean, that was a pretty
exciting time to be at Chicago but Doll Bears. But
and I would have a full circle experience at SNEL
with Bill Swarsky super fans, the Bills, the Bulls, the Bears.
(24:27):
But you know, Eric ultimately was somebody that I built
a relationship with. Over time, he would go from being
a Hollywood producer to being the head of Broadway Video.
And so there was a time when he said, Okay,
(24:51):
I got the job for you. You're gonna be the VP
of Marketing at Broadway Video.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
And I was a brand man at that point. I
did not really get too excited about the additional layers
and steps on the ladder at a big company like
the Quake Growth Company. And I was like, wow, Broadway Video,
this is Lawren Michael's little independent production company.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Eric and Lorne had assembled this really core crew of
really talented people, and they would all go on to
do some pretty incredible things. I had absolutely no idea
what the VP of Marketing for Broadway Video would would
be responsible for. But I was like, I'm game, Let's
(25:45):
take the plunge. My wife Wenny and I were at
that stage of life where we're like, hey, why not,
let's take our shot. We didn't have kids, we didn't
have much of a mortgage. It didn't seem like there
was any downside, and so we picked up.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
And moved to New York. And you know, it was
like dragging a desk into an empty office.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
Eric had some aspirations and Lorn articulated a bit of
what he was willing to explore, and I was able
to dive in and you know, build a merchandising business,
do publishing home video for anybody that remembers VHS tapes, and.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
You know, that was that was my introduction to show business.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
And it was you know, life cereal one day and
and you know, tutsas the driving cat and you know,
Hans and Franz the next day. What's interesting is that
nobody cared about an MBA or where I went to school,
(26:58):
or the Quaker Oats company. It was actually when I
started to meet the cast and the writers, I knew
just instinctively that they could have cared less about any
of that.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
And so it was a big hard turn, and I
did have to be a really good chameleon and adjust,
and you know, pick up the cues and it's like,
how do they speak to each other? What are they
interested in? I have to do a little bit of
my own diagnostic thing to understand, you know, what would
(27:33):
be success, what was Eric looking for? And ultimately my
relationship became more direct with Lorne and as anybody who's
ever worked around SNL would know, he's the guy. He's
making any and all big decisions. He's in charge of
(27:58):
the brand. It's his sensibility. And I had to figure
that out and it wasn't easy. I definitely, you know,
ran into the wall a couple of times, but I
felt like I was an environment where you know, I could,
I could learn, and if I accomplished the things along
the way, they'd let me stick around.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
And I feel like that was a time. If people
think back, you know, folks of different ages have to remember,
this is before YouTube existed. There was no Lazy Sunday,
you know, with Andy Samberg and those guys kind of
changed the nature of SNL wasn't so ubiquitous. There was
no social media. But I feel like you guys were
doing some of the first omni channel stuff where you
were breaking it out into different places. I was also
(28:42):
obsessed with kids in the hall, which was something that
Lauren helped with a great deal. But one of the
things that really struck me, Howard, it reminds me of
something you talked about your dad. My dad used to
stay to me when I was growing up, don't travel
too late, and he meant people. He meant, don't be
so quick to leave people behind. I like stay connected.
One of my mentors, Ralph Katz, is one of the
(29:03):
most brilliant people ever, keeps people with him all the time.
But it feels like in that relationship with Eric, you
maybe ascribe to the same thing, because I feel like
that even the way you and I were catching up
and talking about with this person that person, How does
that phrase strike you, not traveling too late when it
comes to people in your career?
Speaker 4 (29:21):
I love that expression, you know, for me and I
share this with my wife Wendy as well, is relationships
are everything. They are treasures, and those treasures are collected
(29:41):
and nurtured. And you know, if if you're lucky, they
can you know, grow and become more valuable over time.
And you know, I've I've been really, really lucky in
terms of the people who were willing to mentor me
(30:03):
and help me see things that at the time I
couldn't see for myself, or you know, teach me some things.
And it's just funny. Over time, at a certain point
it kind of flipped and then I became that person.
And and so the people part, you know, the people part
(30:24):
has been critical, and you know, Laurne Lorne Michaels is
an incredibly quotable person.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
But one of the you know, one of the first
things was like, you know, it's it's it's all about relationships.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
He was right, he was right, and you know, it's
it's it's funny because when I met Adam Sandler, nobody
knew who he was.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
I mean, he he had obviously been a successful comic
and and showed, you know, quite quite a bit of promise.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
Otherwise he wouldn't have made it to thirty Rock. But
he was a more junior member of the cast and
was you know, really hustling to you know, to kind
of get into sketches and to start to make a
name for himself. He came and played Little Caesars Arena
(31:20):
two years ago, and you know, got to spend some
time with him, and you know, we got to have
some laughs that you know, we're not those you know,
kind of young upstarts anymore.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
But it's you know, those relationships.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
That you form early in life, earlier in your career
can and should be valuable to you, you know, much
later in life. And you know, think about the two
of us, you know, we just kind of pick up
where we left.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Off, which is such a I love that relationships for everything.
They're a treasure. By the way, I was secretly hoping
maybe a Lauren Michael's impression would pop out. So it's
just it's just a now thing that happens when you
think about I mean, this is great. And after that,
you know, there was Viacom and NFL, which is what
(32:11):
you did right before I met you, and those are
huge brands too. But I want to I want to
bring us up to the Virgin Mobile era, mostly because
you know, this is podcast is called building Brand Gravity,
all about the idea of what brings you into the gravity,
into the orbit, like what pulls it you. And when
you think about iconic brands and branding, Virgin is such
(32:34):
a It's just massive in that way. And now don't
know how people relate to it who are much younger generations,
And it's different if you're in England or in Britain
versus the US. But in the time that we were
working together, it's just such a juggernaut and Richard's still
out there doing his thing. Richard Branson. I shouldn't have
to say that for anyone but sir Richard Branson. But
what was it like for you joining a Virgin brand
(32:56):
that was just at that moment launching, like it was
a new cell phone company launching the US for the
first time, So the Virgin name was on it. But
it was a new brand, new model, new technology, lots
of headwinds, but there was the Virgin name on it.
What was What did that mean to you coming into
that ecosystem?
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Well, I was a fanboy, you know, Richard Branson was
this heroic aspirational figure for me because you know, fundamentally,
you know, he was a disruptor. I don't think anybody
used those words, you know, used a word like that
(33:37):
back then. I think that's a little bit more of
an Internet age, you know, reference.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
But this was a guy who shook things up and
found opportunity. And I remember the first time I went
into a Virgin megastore. I had never flown on Virgin Atlantic,
but I kind of heard about it and and knew
a little bit, so I was like, wow, I can't
(34:06):
believe that I'm going to get to represent and actually
build a Virgin.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
Brand in the US. What's really interesting, and I think that,
you know, it's easy, it's easy to forget, is that
in the early two thousands, Virgin was not a well
known brand in the United States. You know, record labels,
(34:33):
the brands of record labels don't necessarily mean so much
unless you're a real music nerd. You know, the Motown
label that was a little bit different.
Speaker 4 (34:49):
So Virgin Records certainly had a legacy, but it wasn't
what I would call a consumer brand that had a
promise reason for being. And you know, it was about
the Rolling Stones and Lenny Kravitz and you know, the
Sex Piscols, and you had the Virgin megastores, but there
(35:12):
weren't a lot of those. You know, there were a
handful of those, and you know, really big cities, so
like you know, Urbane, you know, kind of big city
people might have.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Heard a Virgin and Virgin Atlantic. I mean, I hate
to say it, but there's not a high percentage of
people in the United States and even have a passport
much less you know, travel now, it's probably a little
bit more mainstream to travel internationally today, but again back then,
(35:44):
the idea of traveling to London was pretty exotic. So
you had a small percentage of the population that had
some awareness of the Virgin brand. And with Virgin Mobile,
we were trying to create a why almost mass consumer
phenomenon with the cell phone, which didn't really have much penetration.
(36:10):
We were trying to create.
Speaker 4 (36:13):
As the as the Brits would say, a fast moving
consumer product with a mobile phone. You know, up to
that point, mobile phones were behind a glass case. You
had to sign up for a contract, and you know,
Richard's idea and the idea Virgin Mobile that had gotten
(36:37):
started a little bit earlier in the UK and also
in Singapore was we want this to be a very
familiar consumer product that's easily accessible and that has a
bit of a younger sensibility and actually will be targeted
(36:59):
toward junk p because they should have cell phones. Cell
phones will liberate and allow for independence and everything else
like that. So we really had I guess the building
blocks of a cool brand. But it was really up
to us to define it and to and to propagate
(37:22):
it and to build awareness. And so the idea that
we were going to create truly a national brand for
Virgin was like overwhelmingly cool and fun. I mean I
was pinching myself the whole time. You know, I remember
(37:44):
the first time I met Richard. I remember, you know,
flying on Virgin Atlantic, which I felt was truly the
embodiment of everything that he imagined brand experience and everything
else like that. But we had the keys to kingdom,
you know, he gave you know, he gave a bunch
(38:06):
of Americans, you know, a lot of responsibility.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
Let's just say that.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
Yeah, it's amazing to think of at that time and
what was built and what the market was like at
that time, and those lessons that you took away. I
wanted to shift back to your current role where you're president. Now,
you're leading an organization. Has it been and you've done
that more than once in your career, But what prepared
you from your earlier experiences to then take sort of
(38:34):
the leadership role overall? What do you feel like there
was a good all of those different marketing experiences, as
you said, even back at Quaker oats. Knowing the whole
pnel and the whole deal. Do you feel like that
prepared you all over time to take the helm at
the top.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Yeah. I do think it was, you know, in some
ways a little bit back to the future. In brand management,
you are taught to think about the whole business and
that you're not there to just deliver one.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
Thing sales, revenue, or market share. You're there to deliver
the profit. And that's something that never really left me.
It's it's really interesting because there's lots of different accountability
that marketing leaders can have. Some marketing leaders are, you know,
(39:29):
purely about Marcom and so so the metrics that they
might be responsible for relate to that that set of
that part of the mix. I was always a little
bit more of a line marketer, where I had revenue.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
And in some cases profit.
Speaker 4 (39:49):
So when I was at the NFL, I oversaw marketing,
but I also had the publishing business, and I had
we called it direct commerce because at first it was catalogs,
and then it was this thing called e commerce, and
we built the NFL Shop, which has turned into this
(40:13):
ginormous business like all things NFL. And I had the
publishing business and you know, and those were actual you know, revenue,
cost profit. I had to be accountable for that. When
I was at Virgin, I had sales and product, and
(40:35):
so I had different pieces of the P and L.
And Dan Schulman, the CEO, good friend of both of ours,
would would go on to be the CEO of PayPal.
He felt as CEO that his role was certainly to
(40:55):
lead the company, but he placed a very high priority
in terms of giving us context and making sure that
we could see how all the piece is connected together. So, yeah,
I was Chief Marketing Officer, and there was the COO,
and there was the head of technology, and there was
a CFO. But as a leadership team, we were always focused.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
On the P and L and it was all about like, okay,
what part were you responsible for, what were you contributing to?
How would you compliment and help the other people that
were delivering the whole thing. And so Dan as a
CEO was.
Speaker 4 (41:40):
Truly like a band leader and we were all there
to make music, but we could all see what he
was doing. And so for me to become president of
three point three Presents, first of all, it was my
goal to get back to running a whole business I
love being a CMO, but I really I was kind
(42:03):
of hungry to own the whole business and the P
and L, and so it was kind of a natural transition,
you know. And again it's like, it isn't a difficult
transition for being a line marketer that has to deliver
real metrics to being a president or CEO that has
(42:26):
to worry about the whole P and L.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Those are good lessons those people shape their career. You know,
what do you understand your accountability to be even if
you're not given the P and L? How do you
make those connections and feel that responsibility for it. I'd
interviewed another person for this podcast series who talked about
chief communications. Folks need to see that their business is
the business of the business and revenue. So I love
that connection. As we start to wind down, because you've
(42:51):
been so generous with your time, Howard, what do you
think about brand Detroit? For so Detroit just has an
outside I think role in a lot of people's imagination
and sometimes in recent decades it's been really hard, like
Detroit has had to take so much negative baggage more
than it deserved. I feel like, and now it's been
(43:13):
really energizing for me, and I know so many other
people and I don't even live there to see that
sort of energy, as you said, a renaissance city. But
how do you think about Detroit as a brand and
where's that brand today?
Speaker 3 (43:24):
Well, Detroit is a legendary brand, and anybody that's that's
born here or out of town and from here is
shaped by a bunch of powerful things. Detroit gave the
(43:48):
United States for sure, and some would argue the world
the car, and the car was about, you know, freedom
and discovery and exploration. You know, Detroit gave the world
motown and house music and punk and like all kinds
of things. And so, you know, living out of town,
(44:14):
living in New York in particular for thirty years, it
never left me in terms of, you know, what made
me and where I was from, and you know, wherever
I traveled.
Speaker 4 (44:28):
In the US or North America or the world, it's like,
you know, where are you're from.
Speaker 3 (44:33):
You're from Detroit.
Speaker 4 (44:34):
And people would always be like, oh, wow, Detroit, and
they would talk about oh, I'm a car guy, or
oh my god, Marvin Gay or or Iggy Pop or
you know, and so it's like, yeah, that was a
foundation and you know, this was also the place where
people can get union jobs and make a living, and
(44:58):
you know, but it all came crashing down and and
so part of the legacy and what we've had to
deal with was the decline, the bankruptcy, and there's some
hard times and and you know, for a while people
(45:20):
were caught up in the political dysfunction, urban decay.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
The bankruptcy was was really you know, the low point.
But what was striking to me, and one of the
reasons why it was so exciting for me to come
home was there were a lot of people that were
not willing to let this city go.
Speaker 5 (45:45):
And and people like Mike Illich in the early days
and later on, Dan Gilbert, the Ford family, Steve Ross,
Tom Gores.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
A bunch of people said, wait a second.
Speaker 4 (46:03):
This is is one of the greatest cities in America,
and we believe in it.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
We want to build it back.
Speaker 4 (46:11):
And and so these last decade decade and a half
has been this incredible renaissance, and you have these kind
of touchstone experiences that have that have and moments that
have happened.
Speaker 3 (46:25):
I was here for the NFL Draft, and that made
people look at Detroit and go whoa look.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
At that was a big moment.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
Yeah, look look at the city. The city's on its
way back.
Speaker 4 (46:35):
And then you know, most recently the reopening of Michigan
Central and you know the care and and and the
passion and the commitment that you know, the Ford family
put into bringing this thing back. And this is what's
really fun is that is it kind of people leaning
(46:55):
together and are trying to re established the legacy of innovation,
great design, music.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
What an awesome time for you to come back despite
the pandemic, which I know is not easy, but here
you are now just having just an incredible you know,
if people go to three one three percents website, if
you're in the area, you see just an incredible array
of stuff going on. Last question, Howard, what brands or
parts of culture have you and there gravity right now?
(47:27):
Anything cool that you've been paying attention to recently?
Speaker 4 (47:31):
There's a really cool Japanese outdoor brand called Snowpeak. I'm
kind of like an outdoor wilderness athletic type, incredible design,
super cool, I niche and growing clothing.
Speaker 3 (47:50):
Brand that I love. Matt Happy just did this this
capsule collection with the gap that people are freaking out
over the Olympics.
Speaker 4 (47:58):
Is a brand is bad, Paris as a brand is back,
Kamala as a brand is.
Speaker 3 (48:07):
Revitalized. I don't know.
Speaker 4 (48:09):
I'm a brand junkie, so I'm always, you know, I'm
always kind of thinking about about all this stuff. The
cool thing about what I get to do with three
one three percents. I mean, we do about three hundred
and fifty shows a year across our various six venues,
and we're starting to branch out. Is all these artists
(48:29):
are brands with distinct audiences, and it's just fascinating. You know,
every single night, who's coming to see what artists? And
it's amazing to see an artist really build their audience.
And to go from one of our smaller amphitheaters to
(48:53):
maybe the Fox Theater, the Little Caesars Arena, the Comerica Park.
Speaker 3 (48:59):
It's like I've already seen. I've already seen Chris Stapleton
go from you know, pineab to headlining his own show
at Comerica Park. It's a blast. So I'll forever be
passionate about brands.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
I love it well, Howard Handler, thank you so much
for your time.
Speaker 5 (49:17):
Jay.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
This is an awesome conversation. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (49:20):
Thank you, Anne love being a part of this.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
We are GNS Business Communications. We are a team of
media strategists, storytellers, and engagement experts who meet you at
the intersection of business and communications. To learn more, visit
gscommunications dot com. You are listening to building brand gravity,
attracting people into your orbit a GNS Business Communications podcast.
(49:47):
Keep connected with us by subscribing to the show in
your favorite podcast player. If you like what you've heard,
please rate the show that helps us to keep delivering
the latest in industry influence. Thanks for listen. Until next time.
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