November 21, 2024 • 34 mins
Want to know the secret to thriving in a world full of marketing buzzwords? It’s all about mastering the right blend of authenticity, technology, and real human connections to make your brand not just heard, but truly relevant and memorable.
This week, host Anne Green opens up our listener mailbag to answer questions on compelling guest conversations from Season 2 episodes. This includes exploring how businesses can thrive by aligning communications with revenue-driving goals, igniting creativity within teams, and building real, lasting connections with key audiences. From mastering B2B branding to navigating the future of AI in the workplace, this episode touches on trends that will continue to be top of mind in 2025.
Anne also opens up about everything from her unconventional career journey and passion for genuine networking, to diving deep into the practical and philosophical sides of AI.
Join us as we discuss:
This week, host Anne Green opens up our listener mailbag to answer questions on compelling guest conversations from Season 2 episodes. This includes exploring how businesses can thrive by aligning communications with revenue-driving goals, igniting creativity within teams, and building real, lasting connections with key audiences. From mastering B2B branding to navigating the future of AI in the workplace, this episode touches on trends that will continue to be top of mind in 2025.
Anne also opens up about everything from her unconventional career journey and passion for genuine networking, to diving deep into the practical and philosophical sides of AI.
Join us as we discuss:
- Why prioritizing authentic connections and genuinely learning about others can have a lasting impact on your network and business.
- How AI tools can supercharge productivity and ignite creativity in your organization if approached intentionally.
- Key strategies for aligning communications approaches with business objectives to achieve real, measurable outcomes.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hi there.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
This is Anne Green. I'm CEO G and S Business Communications.
Welcome to a special episode of Building Brand Gravity. It's
our first Ask Me Anything, and I'm going to be
answering some questions that we receive from listeners and also
that we're curated by our team in response to episodes
that I've hosted across the second season of our podcast.
And I'm very excited to be joined by our producer,
(00:28):
John LeMay. Hey John, Who's going to help me address
these questions? How are you today?
Speaker 3 (00:33):
I'm doing well. How are you happy to be here?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
I'm very good. I'm very good. So yeah, so it's
our mail bag. Let's get to it.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
So we have a handful of questions that have been submitted.
Some of them have to do with particular episodes from
this past season or particular guests and conversations that you've had,
and then some have to do with kind of more
like big picture, you know, recurring questions that have come up,
or topics that have come up, or things about you
and you're so, if you're ready to get started, we
(01:03):
can we can do that.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Let's do it. Go ahead, fire it off. First question,
all right.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
So in July you had a conversation with Peter Goodritz,
who is the global director of Business and Marketing Communications
at DOW and that conversation involved the necessity of multi
stakeholder engagement and solving complex issues in areas like energy,
climate or waste reduction, and we received this question, how
(01:30):
are you seeing the impact of multi stakeholder engagement in
leadership across industries.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, that's a great that issue of multi stakeholder engagement.
That's a lot of words, like a lot of multi
syllable words. But to me, I think it just respects
the fact that our landscape is so much more interconnected now.
You think about all the stakeholders of a brand or
(01:56):
an issue or a company. Back in the day, you know,
not that many years ago things were a bit more
siloed and disconnected. And the other thing I would say
is that internal communications, which is your own employees, your
own people, your own organization, was a little bit divorced
at times from external communications. And I've very much felt
(02:18):
over the years in this field, because it's been over
thirty years now, that internal communications was often not seen
as as important as external And now to me, thinking
about engagement from a multi stakeholder way the world is small,
it's very inconnect interconnected. News travels fast, and I think
a lot of people have realized first and foremost that
(02:38):
your internal audience is your employee.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
It's like I talk about a drop.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Falling in a pond and the rings radiating outward. The
first ring after that drop in the pond falls are
your own people, and it radiates outward from there. So
what's internal is often external too, So to me, it's
more connections, less silos, shared responsibility of looking across that
whole stakeholder landscape, no matter where people are, and also
(03:03):
recognizing that internal audiences are as critical, if not more critical,
than those external stakeholders.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
So follow up to that, when it comes to multi
stakeholder engagement, what are some common pitfalls to avoid, particularly
when addressing big areas or big issues like climate change
or waste reduction.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, and I know those are big issues that Peter
and his team at DOW are looking at all the time,
climate change being a very multifaceted one. The pitfalls for
me in this world of stakeholder engagement is assuming but
not knowing your audiences. Audiences are not monoliths, you know,
we see that demonstrated for us every day. It's complex
(03:41):
how people react, what they think they're more than whatever
name they're given on a spreadsheet. You know, they can't
be really reduced in that way. So I also think
another sidebar to that is in this world of information overflow,
especially in social media or all these channelsmmunications, it can
(04:01):
be easy to receive certain communications that feel very intense
or very big, but they're actually quite small or narrow.
So you're hearing something that sounds like a fire, but
it's maybe a candle, but you need to dig into
it to know. So really respecting the idea that you
need to dig deep with your audiences, you need to
do real research. You need to get out there in
(04:23):
the field and meet and know people and not assume.
Because with something as multi layered and multifaceted to say
climate change or waste reduction or any of the really
huge issues that we're facing as a global community, there's
going to be so many perspectives. It's really like a prism,
and you need to keep turning that so you can
see all the faces of it.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
And then last follow up question on this, there is
pressure for organizations and leaders to speak to so many
things in the public sphere today, but not all are
relevant or appropriate. How do organizations make these kinds of judgments.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yeah, that's a great follow up and came through in
the conversation with Peter, but in other places too. I
feel Marta, I know it, and we might talk about
her in a moment. Marta ron Kio Newhart, I know
we talked about that as well, that it's such an important.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Truth.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Although it sounds like very surface, this idea of go
back to your values as a company, and if you
don't really understand what they are and how they manifest
in terms of external communications, you've got to get clear
on that. There's many organizations. Of course they have values
in they're stated, but it's a different thing to have
a list of values and then understand how when there
(05:36):
are difficult, sometimes contentious issues out in the marketplace that
affect various of your stakeholders in different ways, often opposing ways,
it's very different to understand how those values translate into
when you do or do not speak. So each company,
you know, and we happen to be an agency, so
we advise clients on this, but we have to look
at it ourselves too. For your organization has to really
(05:58):
reflect on that and say, how am I consistent and
what do we want to speak to? How are our
values tied to a given issue and how it impacts
our stakeholders and when should we be really confident in
speaking out and using our voice? And then when should
we Maybe this is not our story and maybe it's
time for us to be quiet. But you need a
consistent set of questions, an assessment tool, rubric of some
(06:20):
kind so you can be consistent, and you need to
get folks in leadership talking about this so there's agreement
before stuff is out there and there's a pressure to
speak and that because that's when people get in trouble
when they feel this pressure to say something and they
put it out there, but it's not really rooted in
what they do as an organization or who they are.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Great and then, obviously, with this particular question or any
of the questions we're going to we're going to talk about,
people should feel free to go back and listen to
you know, Peter's episode if you want to hear more
about this and kind of hear the you know where
the question the question came from. So shifting gears our
next question. So you had a conversation with Marto Ronkio Newhart,
(06:59):
and that covered how chief communications roles are evolving to
be ever more integral and matrix leadership positions, and that
involves responsibilities across many facets of organizations, including driving revenue
and aligning with corporate growth strategies, you know, in addition
to more traditional responsibilities. The question is, how have you,
(07:21):
as a communications professional seen your own evolution into a
business leader and the impact you've seen of comms over
these additional concerns like revenue.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah, it's funny how I'm going back to what I
said in an earlier question about multi stakeholder environment, which
is the idea of connection versus being disconnected and siloed.
And you know, when I entered the field in the
early nineties, there was a sense of communications not for
all companies.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
I knew some companies that.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Really put it at the c suite level, at the table,
you know, with executives. But there was a time that
communications was more almost like a serve function, like, oh, well,
you know, these are the people that put out the
press release or of tell them afterwards what it is
we want to say, and they go say it that
is very disconnected from the core of the business. And
I think for me, what I've seen over the course
(08:14):
of my career, and I've certainly felt it as a
business leader, is the deeper and deeper and deeper connection
with what is really driving the business, and that includes revenue, sales,
and the connection with marketing and comms and that whole piece. Now,
for me, I'm an agency leader, so I'm both running
a business but also serving clients. So I've been able
(08:35):
to understand that connection to the heart of the business,
the business objectives, the outcomes, how those businesses are performing,
how integrated marketing and communications tactics tie into that. I've
seen it for many many industries, many many companies, but
I've also had to look at it for my own companies.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
You know that I'm a partner in.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
But it's a good evolution and I feel like communications
leaders are more at the center of discussion than they
have been in the past, which is great.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Why do you think there is still this disconnected times
in seeing communications as being a part of the revenue
generating activities of an organization, and would you say that
some of this is self inflicted or does it come
from somewhere else.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
You know, one of the things Marta talked about in
the episode. It was a really excellent episode for those
who are interested in leading in these areas. She came
out of the fort, she really focused in communications. She
was at Boeing in a sales role, you know, selling
jet airplanes and China, so she really knew the business
from the inside out from the start of her career.
(09:38):
But you know, she talked a lot about and this
resonated for me, how are we spending our time and
do we understand how the time we are spending is
generating equity, building equity in the organization. She talked about
the example of mergers and acquisitions. The role of communications
to build a reputation and equity in the brand of
(10:00):
organization has real monetary value in a merger acquisition situation
in terms of increasing the value of that entity or
increasing the power and stature.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
In order to acquire.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
So that's just one example of where it can be
tough for people to say, well, what is brand worth?
There's been innumerable efforts to put a calculation against you know,
brand equity, et cetera, reputation. Some of these things feel
loose and hard to define, and they will be. They're
more qualitative, They're not the same as you know, a
(10:30):
sales made that's captured on a spreadsheet. But I do
love Marda's idea about we have to be very clear
about activities that build equity and talk about how that
equity is being built because that equity translates into capital
in different ways, and that can also help communications leaders
and even agencies and others understand, Wow, we're doing all
(10:53):
these activities, but some of them feel more central to
the business outcomes of the organization than others, and more
important to the reputation of the organization and the equity
of the organization. This is building brand gravity, the gravity
of that brand than others, and that that's a good
litmus test to say we should be doing more of
this and less of that, if you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
So in our second episode of this past season, and
you sat down with Natalie Nixon, who is the creativity
strategist and CEO of Figure eight Thinking, and you discussed,
as the episode is titled, the idea that yes, we
are all creative. You touched specifically on being a translator
of perspectives to foster collaboration so could you share advice
(11:34):
on how to effectively navigate and merge different creative lenses
within a team.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
That's a big question.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
First of all, I love the episode with Natalie. Natalie
Nixon is such a force, and she's out there, you know,
writing and speaking and sharing so many different perspectives on
unlocking creativity and innovation and understanding ourselves differently in those ways.
So I think it's a really fun episode. I know
it was one that a lot of people enjoyed, so
check it out. As you said when we talked about
(12:03):
being a translator, it was something I brought up with Natalie,
which is that I've had the joy of working in
a really integrated way across my career. So when I
was at a smaller agency years ago, I started at
a huge agency, one of the largest in the world
at the time that was naturally integrated creative and all
the pieces digital came online advertising, communications.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
And then at a smaller firm, we also.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Had a creative shop from the beginning because our founders,
you know, were very invested in that.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
So what I got.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
To do is work very closely my whole career with
those in the you know, very specifically in the creative field.
You know, graphic designers and creative directors, et cetera. And
those who are what we call g ands market communicators,
but those who are communications specialists often interfacing very deeply
with clients, owning those client relationships along with their creative counterparts.
(12:55):
And what I found is that people just have different lenses.
And part of the success of working in a truly
integrated way, which is a lot easier to say than
to do, is to understand how you have to translate
one perspective from the other. And I would always I
would always talk to people about when you are a
creative professional saographic designer and there's an assignment in front
(13:15):
of you, it's literally a blank page. And it's actually
interesting to see how our teams are using AI now
to kind of co create and ida together and bring
something to that blank page and use technology merge with
human creativity. But they're wrestling with a blank page, a
blank slide, a blank canvas.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
Now.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
They don't know how.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Long it's going to take right in those early moments
because they've got to create it. Meanwhile, you have very
intense account people.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Who are very type A as I was one of them.
I get it.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Who want to know when's it going to be done?
This is my timeline, here's the deadline. And so part
of that translation is understanding that there is a magic
to their creative process that requires some freedom and breath
and lack of knowing and exploration. And then you get
to the point where you're like, Okay, now I see
where I'm going to make this deadline right. And so
(14:10):
that's what I feel is the translation. Part of our
role as communicators and in an integrated setting is to
help translate between those different disciplines and different views, but
know that that process, that of creativity takes time and space.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
On a personal level, how do you, as the CEO
of GNS Integrated Marketing Communications Group, how do you find
room for creativity in your day to day life.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
It's a good question, and talking to Natalie really made
me reflect on that. You know, growing up, I was
always a singer and my husband is a professional musician.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
He's a drummer.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
So I have a very obvious form of creativity surrounding
me at home, but in a more corporate setting, in
the work I do, you could sometimes feel sort of
penned in by the must do, Like I must do this,
and I must do that, and I have a to
do list, right, So for me, creativity comes in a
couple different ways. One is constantly learning and absorbing information.
I've just a voracious desire to accumulate knowledge and learn
(15:06):
things high culture, lowculture, technical stuff, fluffy stuff like whatever
it is, and engaging that and connecting those dots and
looking at something on one side and something that seems
really alien and finding the relationship the symbiotic nature of
those topics and connecting the dots, which that I then
(15:27):
bring to my work and my clients. That feels immensely creative.
And then also for me, the act of communication. And
I do a lot of presentation skills training, speech coaching,
media training. So for me, this act of communicating with
another person and understanding how I create something between us
(15:47):
or I create an understanding in them that doesn't exist now,
or I build something that has emotion to it and
creates that connection is immensely creative and I really really
love that part of what I do.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
So last question on this note, You and Natalie also
discussed that everyone is creative, but that this involves this
interplay between play and process or as Natalie phrases it
wonder and rigor, So how can leaders practically create space
for both wonder and riggor play and process in high
pressure corporate environments?
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Isn't that a great pair?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Wonder and rigor? I love the words, I love even
saying them. But the reason I love this, this idea
that Natalie's put out in the world and the way
that she frames it, is that wonder is on an
equal footing as rigor. You know, they they both have
a space, right because I think that in corporate settings, again,
(16:49):
whether it's one of our many many client sectors or
an organization like ours, or any number of others out there.
You know, I've worked with hundreds and hundreds of organizations
across my career and so many different people in different roles,
But it tends to be a focus on the rigor,
on the discipline, on the get it done, on the timeline,
on the what are you trying to achieve? I do
(17:09):
think in connecting with the fact that everyone is and
can be creative and can unlock more of that themselves,
you need to create space for curiosity. And I think
that's embedded in what Natalie's talking about the wonder of something,
the exploration, curiosity, exploration, play, discovery, mistake making. You know,
(17:34):
dead ends, You try a dead end, but then suddenly
maybe a door opens in it in a place you
didn't expect. So and that's an interesting question relative to
AI because this question, now that causes a lot of angst,
I think, especially for those who are focused in communications,
is on that is this issue of authorship. And you know,
whether Claude or chat Ept or pick any of the
(17:54):
large language models Gemini as they're manifesting now their ability
to create content you know, and to create And I
think what's interesting about the written piece is that oftentimes
it's that iteration and editing and discovery you go through
that you actually don't know what you want to write
when you start, and you find it by writing it.
(18:15):
So this is what is particularly interesting to me about
human creativity and machine creativity and how they're merging, because
there's two different ways to it. One I give you
a prompt and we iterate. The other, especially in the
human side, it is like I find it by doing
it and doing it and editing it and failing and
creating it. So and I don't think those are in opposition.
I think there we're going to see more and more.
(18:37):
But that's why I love this idea of wonder and rigor.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Yeah, I love that. I love that idea of wonder
and rigor and feel like it's really applicable to people
and you know, various various industries. So moving on to
a new new topic. So recently you interviewed Howard Handler,
who was a president of three one to three presents
in Detroit, and he's also had key roles across plenty
of different industries. He spoke about this idea relationships being treasures,
(19:02):
and he advised us that we should view and treat
them as such. You also spoke advice from your father
about not traveling quote too light in your life. So
what does this mean to you and how should this
apply to younger professionals in the field.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
The Coward conversation was another. I just love to talk
about treasures. That's a relationship that I've had for many years.
You know, came through business setting a client relationship, but
somebody who really understands what it means to keep a
network and to build people up and stay connected. And
also a really exciting role in Detroit now having all
(19:40):
these amazing venues and seeing being part of that incredible
energy that Detroit.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Has right now.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
But Howard talked about relationships as treasures, which I really
that lit me up. Such a beautiful way to think
about it, and it did remind me of something my father,
Norman Green had said about, you know, analy Elizabeth, don't
travel too late in your life, meaning don't leave relationships behind,
try to stay connected to people. And I was so
(20:08):
worried growing up that I would. I just for some reason,
I felt like it was a prophecy or a warning
that somehow I would and what I've discovered over time,
and it really relates to things one feels that they
have to do as an adult, which is like network
and stay connected. But to me, it was more about
the joy of knowing that I have stayed connected to
people in my life I care about, and that I'm
(20:31):
also really excited to meet more people and create relationships
with them. So I think that for younger professionals in
the field, what's interesting is that we are in this
hybrid landscape now where you know, pre COVID there were
a lot of structures in place, like being in office more,
more chance to travel, being in person more. Some of
(20:52):
that has come back right, But we all know that
it's not what it was before. And so for younger professionals,
they're going to have to be more or I think,
intentional and thoughtful about maintaining relationships, building them, but also
staying connected and saying, how is it that I prioritize
this and make sure that I touch base with people
(21:14):
and I figure out those You can't stay in touch
with everyone by figuring out those relationships that matter, and
especially in the business sense, how do they identify, Wow,
I've really enjoyed working with this person or that person.
I want to make a decision to try to follow
along with them and be in touch from time to time.
It's going to have to be more intentional now. And
I will say, as Howard said, it's something to be
(21:35):
treasured when you get to later stages in your career,
becomes quite special.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
So kind of on that note, So we live in
a world of continuous networking. So how do you find
authenticity and how you maintain connections with those that you've
met or worked with while you're also like addressing the
immediate needs that each day presents.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Yeah, authentic and authenticities those very tricky concepts that can
feel hollow sometimes if it's overused, but it's also very
very real, which is how do you bring yourself to
these interactions? I think for me and this is really
how I see networking now is just finding the joy
(22:21):
and connecting with other people, really enjoying that kind of
letting my letting it go. And you know, there are
times when you're tired and you don't want to interact
and you're just like, I'm not really fit for human consumption,
and be friends of mine know that I'll joke about,
like end of the week, I'm like, I just I'm
not fit for humans.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
But I think that.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Taking it away from I have to perform authenticity. I
have to be a networker. I have to do something.
I have to like create some or make a sale,
or make a connection or get a lea whatever it
is in the world I live in. Can you get
back to the enjoyment of learning about other peopleople asking
them questions, connecting with them, and also seeing if you
(23:03):
can be of service to them. You know, is there
something you can do to help or can you share
a story or a smile or support them in some
way that makes things better for them and that brings
you enjoyment that to me.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Is the heart of it all.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Yeah, it makes sense. So we're going to shift gears
into sort of more general questions that aren't necessarily tied
to specific episodes, but once again definitely encourage people to
go back and listen to all the episodes that we've
talked about so far. So you've mentioned in a couple
different episodes, I think that you have sort of an
(23:36):
unconventional path to communications and marketing. How did that experience
prepare you for being the CEO of an agency?
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Yeah, it's a good question.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
I was definitely the liberal arts young person and did
not see myself as a business person in high school
or college, but wanted work experience, and so that's when
it was really an internship that brought me into integrated
marketing Communications at Burson Marstellar, which through many iterations, is
now known just as Berson, named after the legendary Harald
(24:10):
person who I would see in the elevator. It was
really overwhelming, you know, an amazing, lovely man, and I
got to know him and a lot of other people
who helped build that firm in the seventies and eighties
into the powerhouse. It was when I joined so that's
a legacy I'm proud of. But I think for me
right now, there's a lot of articles about and just
insights and discussions about this world today, the level of volatility,
(24:32):
of uncertainty.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Some people talk about perma crisis.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
It's a lot and a lot of things that one
might have counted on in a business context. It's just
very different now, and sometimes it's hard to gauge is
it completely different. Are there just aspects of it? They're different,
but it does feel different. And I think for me personally,
I can't speak for others in my role, but for
me personally, my path which was very much about zooming
(25:00):
out to the big picture and as I said, being
very curious about many, many, many many things, and being
a learner and just being interested in collecting data and
talking to people and layering learning and learning and learning.
You need that wide view right now. And I'm the CEO,
but I have seven partners and we have many other
(25:21):
leaders here who are really engaged. But we have to
zoom out and see the big picture of what's happening
in the world, in society, in fields that may or
may not directly impact our clients every day, and that
helps me connect the dots.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
We have to be.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Curious about technology, we have to throw ourselves into new things.
We have to not get too caught up in the
hype and yet not ignore the hype either. So this
to me is a very much that kind of broad
mindset that you get from an education that lets you
be a little bit broader and connect the dots and
get excited about learning on a macro level. So I
(25:58):
think that would summarize, you know, how I prepared myself
for this role to the extent that I did.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
It makes sense and as a liberal arts kid myself,
it very much resonates resonates with me. So in a
couple episodes from both this season and last season, you
talked with guests like Howard Pyle, Kyle Turner, Kim Sample,
and Mark mcclennan about AI and the impact that is
going to have on brands in the near future across disciplines.
You've talked about both the ethical and practical perspectives and
(26:27):
considerations in this area. So how are you using AI
as an agency leader and what are you impressed with
or not impressed with when it comes to the tools
that are currently available.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Yeah, absolutely, AI everyone's favorite topic. I just spoke on
this recently at an industry panel, and you know, for me,
I really want to invite everybody to be thinking about
it at a very ground level in terms of how
is it changing day to day work, how is it
being built into our tools both personal and business.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Then at that mid level.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Which is like, what are thoseful pilots, how do we
start to be very intentional about how we're using it
for us and our clients. And then at that one
hundred thousand foot level, which is what does it mean
to be human? What is augmented intelligence? What is authorship IP?
You know, all all that stuff. So for me, I'm
thinking about it at all those levels in terms of
how I'm using AI, you know, I'm looking deeply at
(27:20):
a lot of different applications and testing them, you know,
from playing with different large language models, to seeing how
Microsoft has baked you know, is baking and continuing to
evolve Copilot within the Microsoft three sixty five environment, to
how you know, Gemini Google Gemini is appearing in search
and just how I'm using search, you know, how much
am I using those AI results that Gemini is aggregating
(27:43):
at the top of a search page versus how much
am I drilling down into traditional search results and how
does it feel? And what is the sourcing And the
other thing I'm trying to do is look at the
tools and really ask myself what are the killer apps
for me? And what I mean by that is killer
app was a nomenclancher kind of of the rise of
the iPhone and the mobile world, and it's those apps.
(28:06):
It's a killer app, right, the app that runs away
with popularity. But my first killer app was in the
eighties with IBM clone, you know, DOS based computers, which
I was very skeptical about until I realized there was
something called spell check. When I saw that there was spellcheck,
I was like, I need a computer now. And it's
(28:26):
the same thing with Google Maps when they added live
traffic data to the map that that spurred a lot
of people to get a phone finally. So these are
the kinds of moments where you where your personal life
or your business life and the application and the utility
of it really light up. So what I'm trying to
do is find those killer apps for me that helped
(28:48):
me work smarter, not harder, and also things that are
going to help me. I date, because we have to
per our discussion about creativity, you need the wonder and
the rigor. So I think that AI, especially if we're
treating it like an agent not a tool, and we're
iterating back and forth with the large language models, asking questions, exploring,
(29:09):
that's the kind of way in which we can figure
out how to unlock our own creativity through augmented intelligence.
So those are some of the ways, you know, understanding it,
looking deeply at those killer apps and understanding what applications
are people are using and that they should be using
makes sense.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
So we have two more questions. So when you talk
about the importance of human connections with brands, especially in
the world of B to B, what is it that
good brands do to connect better on a human level.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Yeah, and it's interesting. Obviously there's always a sense that
business to consumer brands have an edge and connecting versus
business to business brands.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
We do a lot of work. We just B two
C work too, but we do a lot of work
in the B to B space.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
I think that it goes back to something I mentioned
earlier in the episode regarding really knowing your audiences, really
knowing them, not assuming things, but using research and talking
and being on the ground and getting more connected and
trying not to shortcut that knowledge, because it's the knowledge
of what who those stakeholders are, not a monolith, not
(30:16):
just a fancy name that somebody in marketing gave them
for their demographic, but to try to dig deeper and
say what are the threads and the interests and the
desires and the concerns that really fuel these individuals as
people as well as buyers of services or clients customers.
(30:37):
And I think that that is what is the foundation
for good brand connection because that helps then inform strategies
and channels that are going to be meaningful and not
just more noise, because I tell you the other thing
about AI is it is pumping a lot of noise
into the ecosystem. There's been a lot of coverage about
you know, we can market at scale now and you
(30:58):
can have a whole bunch of what some people are
calling aislop created to push out the email, push out
on the web, et cetera. So it's only going to
get noisier. That means a deeper knowledge and more care
about the channels and the tactics used is going to
be more critical than ever to connect on you know,
as you ask that human level makes sense.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
And last question is, in a general sense, what should
brands focus on in their communications through the year's end
and what do you think is most important for any
brand to share widely?
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Yeah, you know, it's I think the first thing that
comes to mind to me is just the ongoing volatility
and intensity of the landscape. And that's true. If it's
B to B, B two C is distracting, it's overwhelming.
The news cycle is very intense. There's things happening domestically globally,
there's weather events there, it's just a lot you know,
(31:55):
recently had an election, et cetera. That's just a lot
of noise. And then there's a lot of pressure about
what is valuable, you know, and AI or technology and
what people should be paying attention to. So I do
think there's a lot of folks that are tired and
overwhelmed and information overload. So I think recognizing that the
(32:18):
landscape's going to remain volatile and it's going to be
a difficult up and down kind of news cycle for
a long time to come is important. I think it's
really important first and foremost end of year but throughout
is to stay very close first and foremost to your
own people as an organization, really take the temperature and
understand where they're at and how they're feeling is going
(32:41):
to be a proxy for how the customer is feeling. Often,
how are they able to describe do they feel the
value and what they're doing. Do they understand the value
of what they're selling or offering the services, and how
are they translating that through? And I think, you know,
trying to be as transparent as you can be to
the extent you can be, and really keeping your eye
and your teams are not just in the trench of today.
(33:03):
It's like you're down in the trenches of today, But
how do you lift your eyes up and out toward
that next horizon. That's a little bit of a magic trick,
but I think that's what we're going to have to
keep doing as leaders and whatever industry we're in. You know,
stay close to your people, Understand the landscape is volatile
and noisy, try to be transparent and keep your eyes
(33:25):
not just down at today, but also up at tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
I love all that. I love all that, so that
brings us to the end of our slated questions.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Well, this is a lot of fun. I'm glad we
could do it. We always want people to share questions
and comments. And as you said earlier, John, there's a
lot of great episodes here. I love revisiting them, you know,
check them out. If there's more information that people want
you reach out let us know. But a great place
to start is by going back and revisiting some of
those episodes.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Yeah, agreed. Yeah, and I thought, you know, I think
you have into a lot of the really great insights
and topics that we're covered in those episodes. But also
we forge into some some new territory that is more
and more timely than ever. So awesome job on that.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Fron Great, well, thank you, John, I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
We are GNS Business Communications. We are a team of
media strategists, storytellers, and engagement experts who meet you at
the intersection of business and communications. To learn more, visit
gscommunications dot com. You are listening to building brand gravity
attracting people into your orbit a GNS Business Communications podcast.
(34:38):
Keep connected with us by subscribing to the show in
your favorite podcast player. If you like what you've heard,
please rate the show that helps us to keep delivering
the latest and industry influence. Thanks for listening, until next time.
Hi there.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
This is Anne Green. I'm CEO G and S Business Communications.
Welcome to a special episode of Building Brand Gravity. It's
our first Ask Me Anything, and I'm going to be
answering some questions that we receive from listeners and also
that we're curated by our team in response to episodes
that I've hosted across the second season of our podcast.
And I'm very excited to be joined by our producer,
(00:28):
John LeMay. Hey John, Who's going to help me address
these questions? How are you today?
Speaker 3 (00:33):
I'm doing well. How are you happy to be here?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
I'm very good. I'm very good. So yeah, so it's
our mail bag. Let's get to it.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
So we have a handful of questions that have been submitted.
Some of them have to do with particular episodes from
this past season or particular guests and conversations that you've had,
and then some have to do with kind of more
like big picture, you know, recurring questions that have come up,
or topics that have come up, or things about you
and you're so, if you're ready to get started, we
(01:03):
can we can do that.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Let's do it. Go ahead, fire it off. First question,
all right.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
So in July you had a conversation with Peter Goodritz,
who is the global director of Business and Marketing Communications
at DOW and that conversation involved the necessity of multi
stakeholder engagement and solving complex issues in areas like energy,
climate or waste reduction, and we received this question, how
(01:30):
are you seeing the impact of multi stakeholder engagement in
leadership across industries.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, that's a great that issue of multi stakeholder engagement.
That's a lot of words, like a lot of multi
syllable words. But to me, I think it just respects
the fact that our landscape is so much more interconnected now.
You think about all the stakeholders of a brand or
(01:56):
an issue or a company. Back in the day, you know,
not that many years ago things were a bit more
siloed and disconnected. And the other thing I would say
is that internal communications, which is your own employees, your
own people, your own organization, was a little bit divorced
at times from external communications. And I've very much felt
(02:18):
over the years in this field, because it's been over
thirty years now, that internal communications was often not seen
as as important as external And now to me, thinking
about engagement from a multi stakeholder way the world is small,
it's very inconnect interconnected. News travels fast, and I think
a lot of people have realized first and foremost that
(02:38):
your internal audience is your employee.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
It's like I talk about a drop.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Falling in a pond and the rings radiating outward. The
first ring after that drop in the pond falls are
your own people, and it radiates outward from there. So
what's internal is often external too, So to me, it's
more connections, less silos, shared responsibility of looking across that
whole stakeholder landscape, no matter where people are, and also
(03:03):
recognizing that internal audiences are as critical, if not more critical,
than those external stakeholders.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
So follow up to that, when it comes to multi
stakeholder engagement, what are some common pitfalls to avoid, particularly
when addressing big areas or big issues like climate change
or waste reduction.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, and I know those are big issues that Peter
and his team at DOW are looking at all the time,
climate change being a very multifaceted one. The pitfalls for
me in this world of stakeholder engagement is assuming but
not knowing your audiences. Audiences are not monoliths, you know,
we see that demonstrated for us every day. It's complex
(03:41):
how people react, what they think they're more than whatever
name they're given on a spreadsheet. You know, they can't
be really reduced in that way. So I also think
another sidebar to that is in this world of information overflow,
especially in social media or all these channelsmmunications, it can
(04:01):
be easy to receive certain communications that feel very intense
or very big, but they're actually quite small or narrow.
So you're hearing something that sounds like a fire, but
it's maybe a candle, but you need to dig into
it to know. So really respecting the idea that you
need to dig deep with your audiences, you need to
do real research. You need to get out there in
(04:23):
the field and meet and know people and not assume.
Because with something as multi layered and multifaceted to say
climate change or waste reduction or any of the really
huge issues that we're facing as a global community, there's
going to be so many perspectives. It's really like a prism,
and you need to keep turning that so you can
see all the faces of it.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
And then last follow up question on this, there is
pressure for organizations and leaders to speak to so many
things in the public sphere today, but not all are
relevant or appropriate. How do organizations make these kinds of judgments.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yeah, that's a great follow up and came through in
the conversation with Peter, but in other places too. I
feel Marta, I know it, and we might talk about
her in a moment. Marta ron Kio Newhart, I know
we talked about that as well, that it's such an important.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Truth.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Although it sounds like very surface, this idea of go
back to your values as a company, and if you
don't really understand what they are and how they manifest
in terms of external communications, you've got to get clear
on that. There's many organizations. Of course they have values
in they're stated, but it's a different thing to have
a list of values and then understand how when there
(05:36):
are difficult, sometimes contentious issues out in the marketplace that
affect various of your stakeholders in different ways, often opposing ways,
it's very different to understand how those values translate into
when you do or do not speak. So each company,
you know, and we happen to be an agency, so
we advise clients on this, but we have to look
at it ourselves too. For your organization has to really
(05:58):
reflect on that and say, how am I consistent and
what do we want to speak to? How are our
values tied to a given issue and how it impacts
our stakeholders and when should we be really confident in
speaking out and using our voice? And then when should
we Maybe this is not our story and maybe it's
time for us to be quiet. But you need a
consistent set of questions, an assessment tool, rubric of some
(06:20):
kind so you can be consistent, and you need to
get folks in leadership talking about this so there's agreement
before stuff is out there and there's a pressure to
speak and that because that's when people get in trouble
when they feel this pressure to say something and they
put it out there, but it's not really rooted in
what they do as an organization or who they are.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Great and then, obviously, with this particular question or any
of the questions we're going to we're going to talk about,
people should feel free to go back and listen to
you know, Peter's episode if you want to hear more
about this and kind of hear the you know where
the question the question came from. So shifting gears our
next question. So you had a conversation with Marto Ronkio Newhart,
(06:59):
and that covered how chief communications roles are evolving to
be ever more integral and matrix leadership positions, and that
involves responsibilities across many facets of organizations, including driving revenue
and aligning with corporate growth strategies, you know, in addition
to more traditional responsibilities. The question is, how have you,
(07:21):
as a communications professional seen your own evolution into a
business leader and the impact you've seen of comms over
these additional concerns like revenue.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah, it's funny how I'm going back to what I
said in an earlier question about multi stakeholder environment, which
is the idea of connection versus being disconnected and siloed.
And you know, when I entered the field in the
early nineties, there was a sense of communications not for
all companies.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
I knew some companies that.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Really put it at the c suite level, at the table,
you know, with executives. But there was a time that
communications was more almost like a serve function, like, oh, well,
you know, these are the people that put out the
press release or of tell them afterwards what it is
we want to say, and they go say it that
is very disconnected from the core of the business. And
I think for me, what I've seen over the course
(08:14):
of my career, and I've certainly felt it as a
business leader, is the deeper and deeper and deeper connection
with what is really driving the business, and that includes revenue, sales,
and the connection with marketing and comms and that whole piece. Now,
for me, I'm an agency leader, so I'm both running
a business but also serving clients. So I've been able
(08:35):
to understand that connection to the heart of the business,
the business objectives, the outcomes, how those businesses are performing,
how integrated marketing and communications tactics tie into that. I've
seen it for many many industries, many many companies, but
I've also had to look at it for my own companies.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
You know that I'm a partner in.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
But it's a good evolution and I feel like communications
leaders are more at the center of discussion than they
have been in the past, which is great.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Why do you think there is still this disconnected times
in seeing communications as being a part of the revenue
generating activities of an organization, and would you say that
some of this is self inflicted or does it come
from somewhere else.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
You know, one of the things Marta talked about in
the episode. It was a really excellent episode for those
who are interested in leading in these areas. She came
out of the fort, she really focused in communications. She
was at Boeing in a sales role, you know, selling
jet airplanes and China, so she really knew the business
from the inside out from the start of her career.
(09:38):
But you know, she talked a lot about and this
resonated for me, how are we spending our time and
do we understand how the time we are spending is
generating equity, building equity in the organization. She talked about
the example of mergers and acquisitions. The role of communications
to build a reputation and equity in the brand of
(10:00):
organization has real monetary value in a merger acquisition situation
in terms of increasing the value of that entity or
increasing the power and stature.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
In order to acquire.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
So that's just one example of where it can be
tough for people to say, well, what is brand worth?
There's been innumerable efforts to put a calculation against you know,
brand equity, et cetera, reputation. Some of these things feel
loose and hard to define, and they will be. They're
more qualitative, They're not the same as you know, a
(10:30):
sales made that's captured on a spreadsheet. But I do
love Marda's idea about we have to be very clear
about activities that build equity and talk about how that
equity is being built because that equity translates into capital
in different ways, and that can also help communications leaders
and even agencies and others understand, Wow, we're doing all
(10:53):
these activities, but some of them feel more central to
the business outcomes of the organization than others, and more
important to the reputation of the organization and the equity
of the organization. This is building brand gravity, the gravity
of that brand than others, and that that's a good
litmus test to say we should be doing more of
this and less of that, if you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
So in our second episode of this past season, and
you sat down with Natalie Nixon, who is the creativity
strategist and CEO of Figure eight Thinking, and you discussed,
as the episode is titled, the idea that yes, we
are all creative. You touched specifically on being a translator
of perspectives to foster collaboration so could you share advice
(11:34):
on how to effectively navigate and merge different creative lenses
within a team.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
That's a big question.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
First of all, I love the episode with Natalie. Natalie
Nixon is such a force, and she's out there, you know,
writing and speaking and sharing so many different perspectives on
unlocking creativity and innovation and understanding ourselves differently in those ways.
So I think it's a really fun episode. I know
it was one that a lot of people enjoyed, so
check it out. As you said when we talked about
(12:03):
being a translator, it was something I brought up with Natalie,
which is that I've had the joy of working in
a really integrated way across my career. So when I
was at a smaller agency years ago, I started at
a huge agency, one of the largest in the world
at the time that was naturally integrated creative and all
the pieces digital came online advertising, communications.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
And then at a smaller firm, we also.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Had a creative shop from the beginning because our founders,
you know, were very invested in that.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
So what I got.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
To do is work very closely my whole career with
those in the you know, very specifically in the creative field.
You know, graphic designers and creative directors, et cetera. And
those who are what we call g ands market communicators,
but those who are communications specialists often interfacing very deeply
with clients, owning those client relationships along with their creative counterparts.
(12:55):
And what I found is that people just have different lenses.
And part of the success of working in a truly
integrated way, which is a lot easier to say than
to do, is to understand how you have to translate
one perspective from the other. And I would always I
would always talk to people about when you are a
creative professional saographic designer and there's an assignment in front
(13:15):
of you, it's literally a blank page. And it's actually
interesting to see how our teams are using AI now
to kind of co create and ida together and bring
something to that blank page and use technology merge with
human creativity. But they're wrestling with a blank page, a
blank slide, a blank canvas.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
Now.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
They don't know how.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Long it's going to take right in those early moments
because they've got to create it. Meanwhile, you have very
intense account people.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Who are very type A as I was one of them.
I get it.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Who want to know when's it going to be done?
This is my timeline, here's the deadline. And so part
of that translation is understanding that there is a magic
to their creative process that requires some freedom and breath
and lack of knowing and exploration. And then you get
to the point where you're like, Okay, now I see
where I'm going to make this deadline right. And so
(14:10):
that's what I feel is the translation. Part of our
role as communicators and in an integrated setting is to
help translate between those different disciplines and different views, but
know that that process, that of creativity takes time and space.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
On a personal level, how do you, as the CEO
of GNS Integrated Marketing Communications Group, how do you find
room for creativity in your day to day life.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
It's a good question, and talking to Natalie really made
me reflect on that. You know, growing up, I was
always a singer and my husband is a professional musician.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
He's a drummer.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
So I have a very obvious form of creativity surrounding
me at home, but in a more corporate setting, in
the work I do, you could sometimes feel sort of
penned in by the must do, Like I must do this,
and I must do that, and I have a to
do list, right, So for me, creativity comes in a
couple different ways. One is constantly learning and absorbing information.
I've just a voracious desire to accumulate knowledge and learn
(15:06):
things high culture, lowculture, technical stuff, fluffy stuff like whatever
it is, and engaging that and connecting those dots and
looking at something on one side and something that seems
really alien and finding the relationship the symbiotic nature of
those topics and connecting the dots, which that I then
(15:27):
bring to my work and my clients. That feels immensely creative.
And then also for me, the act of communication. And
I do a lot of presentation skills training, speech coaching,
media training. So for me, this act of communicating with
another person and understanding how I create something between us
(15:47):
or I create an understanding in them that doesn't exist now,
or I build something that has emotion to it and
creates that connection is immensely creative and I really really
love that part of what I do.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
So last question on this note, You and Natalie also
discussed that everyone is creative, but that this involves this
interplay between play and process or as Natalie phrases it
wonder and rigor, So how can leaders practically create space
for both wonder and riggor play and process in high
pressure corporate environments?
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Isn't that a great pair?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Wonder and rigor? I love the words, I love even
saying them. But the reason I love this, this idea
that Natalie's put out in the world and the way
that she frames it, is that wonder is on an
equal footing as rigor. You know, they they both have
a space, right because I think that in corporate settings, again,
(16:49):
whether it's one of our many many client sectors or
an organization like ours, or any number of others out there.
You know, I've worked with hundreds and hundreds of organizations
across my career and so many different people in different roles,
But it tends to be a focus on the rigor,
on the discipline, on the get it done, on the timeline,
on the what are you trying to achieve? I do
(17:09):
think in connecting with the fact that everyone is and
can be creative and can unlock more of that themselves,
you need to create space for curiosity. And I think
that's embedded in what Natalie's talking about the wonder of something,
the exploration, curiosity, exploration, play, discovery, mistake making. You know,
(17:34):
dead ends, You try a dead end, but then suddenly
maybe a door opens in it in a place you
didn't expect. So and that's an interesting question relative to
AI because this question, now that causes a lot of angst,
I think, especially for those who are focused in communications,
is on that is this issue of authorship. And you know,
whether Claude or chat Ept or pick any of the
(17:54):
large language models Gemini as they're manifesting now their ability
to create content you know, and to create And I
think what's interesting about the written piece is that oftentimes
it's that iteration and editing and discovery you go through
that you actually don't know what you want to write
when you start, and you find it by writing it.
(18:15):
So this is what is particularly interesting to me about
human creativity and machine creativity and how they're merging, because
there's two different ways to it. One I give you
a prompt and we iterate. The other, especially in the
human side, it is like I find it by doing
it and doing it and editing it and failing and
creating it. So and I don't think those are in opposition.
I think there we're going to see more and more.
(18:37):
But that's why I love this idea of wonder and rigor.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Yeah, I love that. I love that idea of wonder
and rigor and feel like it's really applicable to people
and you know, various various industries. So moving on to
a new new topic. So recently you interviewed Howard Handler,
who was a president of three one to three presents
in Detroit, and he's also had key roles across plenty
of different industries. He spoke about this idea relationships being treasures,
(19:02):
and he advised us that we should view and treat
them as such. You also spoke advice from your father
about not traveling quote too light in your life. So
what does this mean to you and how should this
apply to younger professionals in the field.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
The Coward conversation was another. I just love to talk
about treasures. That's a relationship that I've had for many years.
You know, came through business setting a client relationship, but
somebody who really understands what it means to keep a
network and to build people up and stay connected. And
also a really exciting role in Detroit now having all
(19:40):
these amazing venues and seeing being part of that incredible
energy that Detroit.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Has right now.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
But Howard talked about relationships as treasures, which I really
that lit me up. Such a beautiful way to think
about it, and it did remind me of something my father,
Norman Green had said about, you know, analy Elizabeth, don't
travel too late in your life, meaning don't leave relationships behind,
try to stay connected to people. And I was so
(20:08):
worried growing up that I would. I just for some reason,
I felt like it was a prophecy or a warning
that somehow I would and what I've discovered over time,
and it really relates to things one feels that they
have to do as an adult, which is like network
and stay connected. But to me, it was more about
the joy of knowing that I have stayed connected to
people in my life I care about, and that I'm
(20:31):
also really excited to meet more people and create relationships
with them. So I think that for younger professionals in
the field, what's interesting is that we are in this
hybrid landscape now where you know, pre COVID there were
a lot of structures in place, like being in office more,
more chance to travel, being in person more. Some of
(20:52):
that has come back right, But we all know that
it's not what it was before. And so for younger professionals,
they're going to have to be more or I think,
intentional and thoughtful about maintaining relationships, building them, but also
staying connected and saying, how is it that I prioritize
this and make sure that I touch base with people
(21:14):
and I figure out those You can't stay in touch
with everyone by figuring out those relationships that matter, and
especially in the business sense, how do they identify, Wow,
I've really enjoyed working with this person or that person.
I want to make a decision to try to follow
along with them and be in touch from time to time.
It's going to have to be more intentional now. And
I will say, as Howard said, it's something to be
(21:35):
treasured when you get to later stages in your career,
becomes quite special.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
So kind of on that note, So we live in
a world of continuous networking. So how do you find
authenticity and how you maintain connections with those that you've
met or worked with while you're also like addressing the
immediate needs that each day presents.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Yeah, authentic and authenticities those very tricky concepts that can
feel hollow sometimes if it's overused, but it's also very
very real, which is how do you bring yourself to
these interactions? I think for me and this is really
how I see networking now is just finding the joy
(22:21):
and connecting with other people, really enjoying that kind of
letting my letting it go. And you know, there are
times when you're tired and you don't want to interact
and you're just like, I'm not really fit for human consumption,
and be friends of mine know that I'll joke about,
like end of the week, I'm like, I just I'm
not fit for humans.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
But I think that.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Taking it away from I have to perform authenticity. I
have to be a networker. I have to do something.
I have to like create some or make a sale,
or make a connection or get a lea whatever it
is in the world I live in. Can you get
back to the enjoyment of learning about other peopleople asking
them questions, connecting with them, and also seeing if you
(23:03):
can be of service to them. You know, is there
something you can do to help or can you share
a story or a smile or support them in some
way that makes things better for them and that brings
you enjoyment that to me.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Is the heart of it all.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Yeah, it makes sense. So we're going to shift gears
into sort of more general questions that aren't necessarily tied
to specific episodes, but once again definitely encourage people to
go back and listen to all the episodes that we've
talked about so far. So you've mentioned in a couple
different episodes, I think that you have sort of an
(23:36):
unconventional path to communications and marketing. How did that experience
prepare you for being the CEO of an agency?
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Yeah, it's a good question.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
I was definitely the liberal arts young person and did
not see myself as a business person in high school
or college, but wanted work experience, and so that's when
it was really an internship that brought me into integrated
marketing Communications at Burson Marstellar, which through many iterations, is
now known just as Berson, named after the legendary Harald
(24:10):
person who I would see in the elevator. It was
really overwhelming, you know, an amazing, lovely man, and I
got to know him and a lot of other people
who helped build that firm in the seventies and eighties
into the powerhouse. It was when I joined so that's
a legacy I'm proud of. But I think for me
right now, there's a lot of articles about and just
insights and discussions about this world today, the level of volatility,
(24:32):
of uncertainty.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Some people talk about perma crisis.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
It's a lot and a lot of things that one
might have counted on in a business context. It's just
very different now, and sometimes it's hard to gauge is
it completely different. Are there just aspects of it? They're different,
but it does feel different. And I think for me personally,
I can't speak for others in my role, but for
me personally, my path which was very much about zooming
(25:00):
out to the big picture and as I said, being
very curious about many, many, many many things, and being
a learner and just being interested in collecting data and
talking to people and layering learning and learning and learning.
You need that wide view right now. And I'm the CEO,
but I have seven partners and we have many other
(25:21):
leaders here who are really engaged. But we have to
zoom out and see the big picture of what's happening
in the world, in society, in fields that may or
may not directly impact our clients every day, and that
helps me connect the dots.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
We have to be.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Curious about technology, we have to throw ourselves into new things.
We have to not get too caught up in the
hype and yet not ignore the hype either. So this
to me is a very much that kind of broad
mindset that you get from an education that lets you
be a little bit broader and connect the dots and
get excited about learning on a macro level. So I
(25:58):
think that would summarize, you know, how I prepared myself
for this role to the extent that I did.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
It makes sense and as a liberal arts kid myself,
it very much resonates resonates with me. So in a
couple episodes from both this season and last season, you
talked with guests like Howard Pyle, Kyle Turner, Kim Sample,
and Mark mcclennan about AI and the impact that is
going to have on brands in the near future across disciplines.
You've talked about both the ethical and practical perspectives and
(26:27):
considerations in this area. So how are you using AI
as an agency leader and what are you impressed with
or not impressed with when it comes to the tools
that are currently available.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Yeah, absolutely, AI everyone's favorite topic. I just spoke on
this recently at an industry panel, and you know, for me,
I really want to invite everybody to be thinking about
it at a very ground level in terms of how
is it changing day to day work, how is it
being built into our tools both personal and business.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Then at that mid level.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Which is like, what are thoseful pilots, how do we
start to be very intentional about how we're using it
for us and our clients. And then at that one
hundred thousand foot level, which is what does it mean
to be human? What is augmented intelligence? What is authorship IP?
You know, all all that stuff. So for me, I'm
thinking about it at all those levels in terms of
how I'm using AI, you know, I'm looking deeply at
(27:20):
a lot of different applications and testing them, you know,
from playing with different large language models, to seeing how
Microsoft has baked you know, is baking and continuing to
evolve Copilot within the Microsoft three sixty five environment, to
how you know, Gemini Google Gemini is appearing in search
and just how I'm using search, you know, how much
am I using those AI results that Gemini is aggregating
(27:43):
at the top of a search page versus how much
am I drilling down into traditional search results and how
does it feel? And what is the sourcing And the
other thing I'm trying to do is look at the
tools and really ask myself what are the killer apps
for me? And what I mean by that is killer
app was a nomenclancher kind of of the rise of
the iPhone and the mobile world, and it's those apps.
(28:06):
It's a killer app, right, the app that runs away
with popularity. But my first killer app was in the
eighties with IBM clone, you know, DOS based computers, which
I was very skeptical about until I realized there was
something called spell check. When I saw that there was spellcheck,
I was like, I need a computer now. And it's
(28:26):
the same thing with Google Maps when they added live
traffic data to the map that that spurred a lot
of people to get a phone finally. So these are
the kinds of moments where you where your personal life
or your business life and the application and the utility
of it really light up. So what I'm trying to
do is find those killer apps for me that helped
(28:48):
me work smarter, not harder, and also things that are
going to help me. I date, because we have to
per our discussion about creativity, you need the wonder and
the rigor. So I think that AI, especially if we're
treating it like an agent not a tool, and we're
iterating back and forth with the large language models, asking questions, exploring,
(29:09):
that's the kind of way in which we can figure
out how to unlock our own creativity through augmented intelligence.
So those are some of the ways, you know, understanding it,
looking deeply at those killer apps and understanding what applications
are people are using and that they should be using
makes sense.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
So we have two more questions. So when you talk
about the importance of human connections with brands, especially in
the world of B to B, what is it that
good brands do to connect better on a human level.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Yeah, and it's interesting. Obviously there's always a sense that
business to consumer brands have an edge and connecting versus
business to business brands.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
We do a lot of work. We just B two
C work too, but we do a lot of work
in the B to B space.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
I think that it goes back to something I mentioned
earlier in the episode regarding really knowing your audiences, really
knowing them, not assuming things, but using research and talking
and being on the ground and getting more connected and
trying not to shortcut that knowledge, because it's the knowledge
of what who those stakeholders are, not a monolith, not
(30:16):
just a fancy name that somebody in marketing gave them
for their demographic, but to try to dig deeper and
say what are the threads and the interests and the
desires and the concerns that really fuel these individuals as
people as well as buyers of services or clients customers.
(30:37):
And I think that that is what is the foundation
for good brand connection because that helps then inform strategies
and channels that are going to be meaningful and not
just more noise, because I tell you the other thing
about AI is it is pumping a lot of noise
into the ecosystem. There's been a lot of coverage about
you know, we can market at scale now and you
(30:58):
can have a whole bunch of what some people are
calling aislop created to push out the email, push out
on the web, et cetera. So it's only going to
get noisier. That means a deeper knowledge and more care
about the channels and the tactics used is going to
be more critical than ever to connect on you know,
as you ask that human level makes sense.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
And last question is, in a general sense, what should
brands focus on in their communications through the year's end
and what do you think is most important for any
brand to share widely?
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Yeah, you know, it's I think the first thing that
comes to mind to me is just the ongoing volatility
and intensity of the landscape. And that's true. If it's
B to B, B two C is distracting, it's overwhelming.
The news cycle is very intense. There's things happening domestically globally,
there's weather events there, it's just a lot you know,
(31:55):
recently had an election, et cetera. That's just a lot
of noise. And then there's a lot of pressure about
what is valuable, you know, and AI or technology and
what people should be paying attention to. So I do
think there's a lot of folks that are tired and
overwhelmed and information overload. So I think recognizing that the
(32:18):
landscape's going to remain volatile and it's going to be
a difficult up and down kind of news cycle for
a long time to come is important. I think it's
really important first and foremost end of year but throughout
is to stay very close first and foremost to your
own people as an organization, really take the temperature and
understand where they're at and how they're feeling is going
(32:41):
to be a proxy for how the customer is feeling. Often,
how are they able to describe do they feel the
value and what they're doing. Do they understand the value
of what they're selling or offering the services, and how
are they translating that through? And I think, you know,
trying to be as transparent as you can be to
the extent you can be, and really keeping your eye
and your teams are not just in the trench of today.
(33:03):
It's like you're down in the trenches of today, But
how do you lift your eyes up and out toward
that next horizon. That's a little bit of a magic trick,
but I think that's what we're going to have to
keep doing as leaders and whatever industry we're in. You know,
stay close to your people, Understand the landscape is volatile
and noisy, try to be transparent and keep your eyes
(33:25):
not just down at today, but also up at tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
I love all that. I love all that, so that
brings us to the end of our slated questions.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Well, this is a lot of fun. I'm glad we
could do it. We always want people to share questions
and comments. And as you said earlier, John, there's a
lot of great episodes here. I love revisiting them, you know,
check them out. If there's more information that people want
you reach out let us know. But a great place
to start is by going back and revisiting some of
those episodes.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Yeah, agreed. Yeah, and I thought, you know, I think
you have into a lot of the really great insights
and topics that we're covered in those episodes. But also
we forge into some some new territory that is more
and more timely than ever. So awesome job on that.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Fron Great, well, thank you, John, I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
We are GNS Business Communications. We are a team of
media strategists, storytellers, and engagement experts who meet you at
the intersection of business and communications. To learn more, visit
gscommunications dot com. You are listening to building brand gravity
attracting people into your orbit a GNS Business Communications podcast.
(34:38):
Keep connected with us by subscribing to the show in
your favorite podcast player. If you like what you've heard,
please rate the show that helps us to keep delivering
the latest and industry influence. Thanks for listening, until next time.
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