May 4, 2024 • 48 mins
Join us for story time with Doug Ellin, the visionary creator behind the blockbuster TV series 'Entourage.' Dive into the world of Hollywood with Doug as he reveals the secrets behind creating one of television's most iconic shows. From his first TV gig to his adventures in filmmaking, discover the creative process, personal anecdotes, and invaluable lessons learned throughout his illustrious career. Whether you're a fan of 'Entourage' or an aspiring creator, this video is packed with insights into the highs and lows of the entertainment industry, told by one of its most influential storytellers. Don't miss out on the behind-the-scenes stories of Hollywood's glamorous yet challenging world.
Subscribe to Curiosity’s Storyteller Studio on YouTube for more fascinating conversations with the world's greatest storytellers.
Join us in our mission to discover "where the best stories come from" by exploring the minds and crafts of storytellers from diverse backgrounds.
Don't miss out on the inspiration behind the world’s most beloved stories!
And follow us on socials!
www.instagram.com/curiositystorytellerstudio
www.facebook.com/curiositystorytellerstudio
www.TikTok.com/curiosity_storyteller
Love this episode? Share it with your story loving friends and leave us a comment or review! Let’s spread the word about the stories behind the stories!
This episode was powered in part by Little Black Tux - Tuxedos for Women!
Cinematography: Phil Sakanashi
Produced by: Chas Allen & Adhrucia Apana
Post Production: PJ Donahoe Associate
Producer: Amar
Bed Music: Jimi Cravity
Make-up by: Gayane Hunanyan
Subscribe to Curiosity’s Storyteller Studio on YouTube for more fascinating conversations with the world's greatest storytellers.
Join us in our mission to discover "where the best stories come from" by exploring the minds and crafts of storytellers from diverse backgrounds.
Don't miss out on the inspiration behind the world’s most beloved stories!
And follow us on socials!
www.instagram.com/curiositystorytellerstudio
www.facebook.com/curiositystorytellerstudio
www.TikTok.com/curiosity_storyteller
Love this episode? Share it with your story loving friends and leave us a comment or review! Let’s spread the word about the stories behind the stories!
This episode was powered in part by Little Black Tux - Tuxedos for Women!
Cinematography: Phil Sakanashi
Produced by: Chas Allen & Adhrucia Apana
Post Production: PJ Donahoe Associate
Producer: Amar
Bed Music: Jimi Cravity
Make-up by: Gayane Hunanyan
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Check out Rucus Avenue Radio dot com for our full
schedule and listen to past episodes available on all major
podcast platforms.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
This is a Drusha and you're listening to Curiosity Storyteller
Studio on Ruckus Avenue Radio. This is a Drusha and
you're listening to Curiosities Storyteller Studio.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Dumb.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
What's happening?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
How are you?
Speaker 4 (00:33):
I am good?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
You in Entourage got a reputation for brilliantly good, blending
comedy and drama and gave us this beautiful inside look
at Hollywood. When creating the show, You've talked often about
how you were an outsider to that experience, so that
you were joining that experience, were bringing your own experiences
(00:57):
into creating these characters, and these were else Now that
you have found yourself in this world where you're creating
a world that you're not, it's not native to you,
how do you craft that experience and what do you
hope the audiences would take away from that experience based
(01:18):
on what you were bringing to it.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
Well, I've never been a person who worries about the audience.
You have to worry about, you know, the people paying you,
because they give you all their comments and it's funny
because you say drama and comedy. And when I started writing,
the notes from HBO were basically, stop with the heart
and the drama and we just want like it to
be fun and sex and you know whatever. And it
(01:40):
wasn't ever what I wanted to write or whatever I
feel as far as the audience, that was never something
I thought about. What I did was and where the
show started was when I'm Mark Wohlberg and his manager
came to me and said, oh, we want you to
write the show about Mark and his friends and that
world that Mark and his friends were in with foreign too,
(02:01):
anything that I would ever have experienced in my life
that I said, you know what, like, let me make
it my friends, and let me imagine that me and
my friends lived in this world and how we would be.
So I have the same group and it's not four
of us, it's like fourteen of us that and there's
a whole group of girls too that fall into that
that are from kindergarten and we still chat on texts daily.
(02:23):
And I wanted to show the way I grew up,
the loyalty I grew up, the friendships that I grew
up with and all that stuff was more important than
all of the Hollywood stuff to me. So again it
wasn't like, what did I want the audience to feel?
But I wanted to kind of show the experiences that
I had and imagine that you know, I was a
famous movie star.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Welcome to Curiosity Entertainment's Storyteller Studio. My name is Adrusha,
and I create and write movies, music and television. Each week,
join me and my team as we talk to the
world's great as storytellers in dude of the answer to
the question where do the best stories come from? Now,
(03:04):
let me introduce you to today's guest. Today, we welcome
Doug Ellen to the studio, a master of modern storytelling
whose journey through Hollywood has been nothing short but cinematic itself.
Doug Ellen, perhaps best known as the creator, writer, and
producer of the hit TV series Entourage, has skillfully carved
(03:26):
a niche for himself in the entertainment industry. Entourage not
only entertained but also provided a behind the scenes look
at Hollywood through a lens that was both humorous and
sharply observant. It ran for eight successful seasons and culminated
in a feature film encapsulating the highs and lows of
the film industry. But Doug's career is filled with more
than just a p iconic series. His ability to blend
(03:47):
comedy with the nuanced, often harsh realities of Hollywood life
has earned him critical acclaim and a dedicated fan base.
From his first TV gig to his ventures into filmmaking,
every step in Doug's career has been a ten estimate
to his talent and his relentless pursuit of storytelling excellence. Today,
Doug will share with us the highs of his career,
the lessons learned, and the behind the scenes stories of
(04:10):
creating some of television's most beloved characters. Join us as
we explore the craft, the creativity, and the personal journeys
that have fined one of Hollywood's most influential creators. Welcome
Doug Ellen. This episode was brought to you in partnership
with Little Black Tucks. Little Black Tucks is my go
to when I need a timeless look, whether I'm speaking
(04:32):
on a film panel, walking a red carpet, or need
a bold, sophisticated look for a photoshoot. Little Black Tucks
has me covered. Little Black Tucks isn't just a clothing company.
They're a company with a story, a strong why, and
you know I love a good story. They're breaking boundaries
and creating clothing that empowers women with versatile, upscale options.
(04:53):
I love my Little Black Tucks and I know you
will too, Doug, Welcome to Storyteller's Studio. I want to
start with your earlyest influences. Where did your love for
stories and storytelling? When was it first ignited? Where did
it come from?
Speaker 4 (05:09):
I mean as early as I can remember. Movies, comedy,
you know, mel Brooks back then. I know we can't
say Woody Allen anymore. He's been canceled so many times, but.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
He's canceled, but he still seems me making movies.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
You know, nobody sees him since I think I'm the
only one but Woody Allen, Albert Brooks, even Seinfeld, which
is later, but mel Brooks, the Zucker Brothers. You know,
the first time I remember actually saying I want to
make movies, even though I did absolutely nothing about it
until I got to Los Angeles. Not in school, not
in fun, but in like nineteen seventy nine. I was
(05:45):
in camp maybe eighty whatever it was, and a friend
of mine from school who's still one of those friends
that I speak to all the time. So this movie
Airplane just came out that you're gonna lose your mind
when you see this movie. And I remember sitting in
a theater watching that movie. Sure you know, seeing and
now it's another movie by the way that you know,
people have problems with things, you know, and they write
(06:06):
like like, what's why it's problematic to people? But I
remember sitting in that packed theater and never seeing a
group of people together laughed so hard in my life,
and just going, I don't know, I want to I
want to do something with this. And then all of
those kind of writer director uh like I said, Woody Allen,
Albert Brooks, mel Brooks, those were guys that I just
(06:28):
wanted to emulate, and that was something I wanted to
do when I first came out here. I started as
a stand up I thought like I wanted to be
like an actor like those guys, and they kind of
diverged away from that after a couple of bad auditions.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Let's talk about that. What was the turning point? Because
I know you started and you tried, he's tried stand
up comedy, and before that you were, I believe in
the mailroom correct tell us a little bit, because one
of the things I love about you is you're even
from the beginning, from the stories I've heard you tell,
your unapologetic nature of just being you, just being you.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
We're stupid, it's it's it's you.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
I love it. I actually think it's what makes you
wildly popular, and even as the head of the mail
room where you started.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
So again, like to give this like clear context, it's
it's it's pretty wild. The story of my little mailroom
ventures that Newline Cinema, which was kind of at the
beginning of Newline Cinema before they really exploded and became
an enormous film company. And I somehow got a temp
agency sent me in there, and I somehow talked my
way into the head job at the mail room. So
(07:35):
there were two other guys in there, and actually one
of them, TOMMYO Haver, who became a pretty successful director himself.
We wrote this first short film that I did together,
but in that mail room, which I sort of exaggerate
the timeline. It was probably like six to eight weeks
that I was in that mailroom, and when I left
that mail room, it was because and I used a
(07:56):
scene that was inspired by this an entourage. But I
walked one day and I was walking down the hall
at New Line and the vice president, Marjorie someone or other,
she came storming out of her office with hot coffee
and literally bumped into me and spilled coffee on me
and screams, what the fuck are you doing there?
Speaker 2 (08:14):
What you say?
Speaker 4 (08:15):
What the fuck are you doing? And then I look
up and realize, like, that's the end of my tenure
at New Linch. And I left, and I was like,
my like life is over. What am I gonna do?
Like this is a bad thing. But I still had
friends there, and I was doing these amateur stand up
nights and I sent out flyers to everybody to raise
money for a short film that I was gonna do
(08:36):
with this tommyo Haveber and Mike de Luca came with
other people at the group of Mike DeLuca, who's now
an Oscar winning producer and at the time was VPP
like different than the Marjorie. It wasn't him that spilled
the coffee on me, and he came and saw me
do stand up and he wrote a check for ten
thousand dollars for me to do the short film.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
You're listening to Curiosity Storyteller Studio som our guests Doug Ellen.
When we get back from these messages.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Don't worry about me.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
I've got another so too killed, Don't worry about me.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
Check out ruckus Avenue radio dot com for our full
schedule and listen to our past episodes, available on all
major podcast platforms.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Welcome back to Curiosity Storyteller Studio. We're back in the
studio with Doug Ellen, the creator of Entourage.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Some good things happen. You know. I start doing auditions
for the short film and a friend of mine tells
me he's got this actor that's perfect for this role.
And he brings in pre friends, David Schwimmer and into
my apartment to audition for this seven minute short film
that I'm doing. And Schwimmer walked in and did one
line and it's done. That's it. We became very close
(09:56):
friends from that, and he did my film. But what's
truly wild is, you know, this first short film that
I did with Ernie Hudson, I got in it and
Johnny Silverman and David Trimmer and an actor named Helen
Martin who was just was incredible, who was in Friday
a lot of movies, two two seven television show. And
so I made the short film. But I had never
(10:17):
been on a film set when I got in there.
So the first time I ever got on a film
set with all these professional people who, as you know,
you make an independent film, there's a lot of people
who need work, and there's people who will come in
and help young filmmakers and do it. And I have
all these great people that I still am in touch
with these days. And I remember the cinematographer sets up
a shot with Ernie Hudson, who's like so phenomenal this actor,
(10:38):
and he shows me like he's like, what do you think?
And I go up to a camera for the first
time in my life, a movie, a film camera, and
I look in the lens and I just see nothing
but black. And I think, you know, is the lens
kept on? Are they screwing with me? And there's this
crew all there for free looking at me. The director
like an idiot, and I whispered him, I'm like, I
don't see nothing, and he says, you gotta like really
(11:00):
press your eye to the lens, which is different now
than digital and everything. This is an old school thirty
five millimeters panorama or actually we shot sixteen. But so
I shoot this short film knowing nothing, we edit it together.
I don't know where I'm going or what I'm doing
with this, and two things happen, like it sounds crazy,
but Showtime sees it and wants to buy it, and
(11:21):
they want to play it before the player on Showtime. Okay,
seven minute short film that it took me a year
to make, which now you know, back then I had
film strips all over my apartment. Today you could do
it on an iPhone for one hundred and fifty dollars
and be done with it by the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
It's a little more difficult back then, a little more difficult.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Took probably a year, probably twenty thousand dollars, aside from
the ten that Mike was nice enough to give us.
So it sells to Showtime, and then a producer sees it,
who's making the movie The Parent Trap, and he's like,
you're a genius. You got to direct this movie The
Parent Trap. Now the only set I've ever been on
(11:57):
is this this little.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Thing set you put together.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Yeah, which, by the way, isn't even like, I mean,
it's such a dialogue piece. It's just a static camera.
The shot we're talking about wasn't like Scorsese's called the cabatit,
you know, it's just like looking at Ernie Hudson like this.
So I get a meeting and where is this movie at?
This movie's at New Line Cinema. Oh no way, I've
been thrown out of Newline, made this short film. Whatever
(12:21):
the timeline is, six eight, twelve months, whatever it is.
I'm now going back into Mike De Luca's office as
the director of the Parent Trap.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Did he laugh?
Speaker 4 (12:31):
He laughed. But the worst part is, which I try
to tell people now, because I've, as you said, I've
always been this kind of straightforward, honest person instead of
a salesman, which now i'm better at. I know that
this town is mostly full of shit and the best
thing you can do is kind of just sell. But
I walk into this meeting with Mike de Luca. I honestly,
(12:51):
I've seen every movie one hundred times that exist, because
I love movies. But I've never really I've never read
a book on directing. I've never studied, I've never done anything.
Mike starts giving me basic questions about how I'm going
to make this movie, and he might as well speaking
in the language to me because I don't know what
he's talking about. It's like, how are you going to
shoot this? And I'm like, how am I? Oh?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Am?
Speaker 4 (13:13):
I goodness, I'm just like I'm gonna make it funny.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
What do you mean?
Speaker 4 (13:16):
Like, I'm you know, it's gonna be whatever. So Mike
took me to lunch after that. He said, look, you're
you're gonna have a career. I suggest you go to
film school. You do this. So anyway, I did not
get the job, which today I could have read a book.
I could have walked in there and even if I
didn't know what I was doing, I could have sound
told it like I knew what I was doing. But
I ended up going AFI for a year and then
(13:37):
came out of there and made another short film. And
I don't know if you want to continue on this panel.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
I want to take him back really quick to your
upbringing a little bit. Are you a single child?
Speaker 4 (13:47):
No? No, I have two brothers.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
You have two brothers. During that, like, tell us a
little bit about what created this kind of mentality to
which you approach both your work, and I think is
very indicative of your storytelling and it comes through in
your stories. Is it you grow up with two brothers?
Where are you growing up?
Speaker 4 (14:06):
Grew up in merrick Long Islands.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Merrick Long Island. You talked a little bit about the
group's of your friends, But what is that hoodspa and
this idea of just coming out and like doing something
you've never done before and selling it. Where does it
come from?
Speaker 4 (14:18):
You know what? I don't know because everyone thought I
was crazy. My father I told me I was going
to go out to lab.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Your father do he's an accountant? Accountant?
Speaker 4 (14:25):
Yeah, My older brother's a lawyer. My older brother's a banker.
I don't didn't know a single person in Hollywood and
film anything. I just loved movies. And I also, sadly,
like a lot of people in this town, I was
lazy at everything else. I was terrible in school. I
used to sit in classes going what am I doing here?
(14:46):
And I was on a path to go to law
school even though I didn't have good grades. I wasn't
going to be particularly good.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Well, you knew when you grow up.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
This is what it was. And it was like really
nothing else. And about eight weeks before I graduated Too
Lane in New Orleans. I just I wrote a screenplay
again with no knowledge of how to write it, just
thinking like movies I see and what I do, and
that's what I did. And then I told my parents,
I'm moving to LA I'm going to be a stand
up comedian and I'm going.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
To make its weirdly familiar.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
I mean, it's a lot of people's stories and I
think you know this talent it is.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
I think that like the concept of like picking up everything,
moving across the country and just starting something new. I
think it takes a certain type of mentality. And again
it's one of the things. I love the way that
you lead a room, and I think it's indicative of
why your shows have had the energy that they do.
And it comes from somewhere deeper. It comes with this
(15:42):
craziness just saying whatever.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
It is a craziness for sure. Just No, there's not
a single person who believed in me at all. It
was no one. I was like, yeah, you know, my
father I told me was doing stand up. He's like,
are you funny? You know, that's always helpful. But my
family was very into the arts, very into movies, so
we would talk about stuff again, not like technical intellectual way,
(16:08):
but no, I would say intellectual storytelling, okay, not about
filmmaking necessarily. Like I didn't even really understand that. I
was just like, that's great. That makes me move, that
makes me laugh, that does that for me. So it
was just something I wanted to do.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
You're listening to Curiosity Storyteller Studio more from our guest
Doug Ellen. When we get back from these messages.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Ruck Us Avenue Radio.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Welcome back to Curiosity Storyteller Studio. We're back in the
studio with Doug Ellen, the creator of Entourage. Let's talk
about the comedy a little bit and how I know
you didn't spend a lot of time in comedy, but
you know, stand ups a very specific skill, and I
think it really changes the way that you approach building
characters and the way that you approach story. Tell us
(17:04):
a little bit about how your time and stand up,
your brief time and stand up, how it changed the
way you were writing and your experience in film school.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
You know, I don't know if it changed anything, but
I always say that was probably my most natural skill.
The problem is I don't like people. I don't like clubs.
I don't like being out late at night, so it
wasn't a lifestyle that was for me, unfortunately. And some
of my friends you know, who are very successful comedians
now like they love that. They're like, you know, they'll
(17:33):
be out at four o'clock in the morning. I'm like,
I can't do it.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
A different world.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
Yeah, it is a different world. And but I think
it was the thing I was most suited skill wise
to do. I again, I'm not suggesting I'm funny.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
But you are funny. It's funny.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
I would do pretty well for an amateur, but I
just didn't have the patients and the energy. And when
I got into film school and when I sold my
first short film, I was like, you know, I just
want to do it on my time and the way
I want to do it, without a crowd judging me.
So I didn't get to that place that that's sometimes
I regret and wish I tried to.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
You know, let's go back to your when you you
graduate AFI and you go to make your next few films.
This concept of you you're not making it for with
the You're making a film you love, not necessarily for
the context of what people find appropriate or is selling
well or whatever? That is, What was your decision for
(18:31):
your first film? And can you walk us.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
Through, by the way completely not what you just said,
because it was not a passion project, that was not
for lung.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Did you decide it?
Speaker 4 (18:40):
I got a call. I got hired to do a movie,
you know, at a film school. I'm a week out
of film school, a week probably a week wow, and
a guy calls me, I saw your short film. I
want to direct this movie called that Beach.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Okay, that beach. That Beach was about. I'm not sure
it's got a real thought.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
But the word for real phat in nineteen ninety one
is not even in the lexicon yet. And I actually,
you know, it's weird. I'm not saying that. Fat Beach
the movie. Although Complex magazine did a twenty five year
retrospective on.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
This movie, look at that.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
But it helped, it helped bring it into the mainstream
a little bit. Chris Rock used to talk about Fat
Beach and a stand up act. This was a movie.
A guy calls me, he says, I want you to
direct this movie, Fat Beach, And I was like, fat bitch.
Like what he's like now? Fat Beach phat non union
fifty thousand dollars budget, okay, and we want you to
(19:41):
like come make this way. So someone was hiring me
to make a movie. I think I was paid after
everything was said and done. I think I made about
eleven thousand dollars and the movie's been playing for twenty
five years. Again, I'm not suggesting you run out and
see it. I'm not thinking that the storytelling is somehow remarkable.
But there are some laughs, and there are some good
performances from you know, found a kid named Brian Hooks
(20:01):
who'd never been in a movie before. It was phenomenal.
And some other people. Jermaine Hopkins who was in stand
by Me at the time, he was in it also
and it was great. But I just got on a
set and we shot this thing in six days and
the guy ran out of money. Like done, wrap it up,
by the way. A little bit of unknown knowledge. Also,
(20:21):
I went to AFI with Darren Aronofsky, great filmmakers, and
I had him do second unit at the time on
that beach. Now, you're not going to see that on
his resume, okay, even though it's online.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
You will getts somewhere.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
I see this guy we couldn't even afford BTS. So
I do this six days and then six months later
it's like it's dead and I'm sitting around and a
friend of mine and the Marion Weinberg, who was producing
some movies I forget which ones, I said, Oh, I
made this, like I was making this thing. We did
it in six days. He sees it, He's like, I
(20:52):
can sell this, and I'm like what he calls up
Live Entertainment, which is you know, worldwide tributor. At the
point they see it and they're like, let's like put
one hundred grand into this movie and finish it. So
we come back I think a year later after we
were done, after it was just sitting in a trash can,
and we shoot like another five or six days, and
(21:14):
we edit it, interestingly enough, on Lightwortz, which is one
of the first digital platforms.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
We're now like moving away from film.
Speaker 4 (21:21):
And editing on the screen that's so digitized you can
barely even see the whole movie. And we finish it.
We give it to Live and I don't remember the
exact number. I'm pretty sure they released it on twelve
hundred screens around the world. This movie costs less than
two hundred thousand dollars. When everything was said and done,
they released it like it's some studio movie. I get
the call from the producer. We're doing a giant premiere
(21:43):
at the Galaxy. I mean, I'm at a movie premiere
for this thing, you know, And as you say, people
are asking me like, was this your passion? No, it
wasn't a passion project. It was a chance to whether
I made two dollars, it was a chance to be
on a set and make, you know, shoot film and
talk to actors, which was greatly.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
About finding your voice from there because I want to
get a little bit into entourage and the origin story
which you touched upon in our intro. But I would
love to know, just for all the directors and the
writers and the actors listening, where in that process graduate
a great prestigious film school, you get your first movie
(22:23):
that turns out to be not the dream you wanted.
What it was it like trying to find your voice
in this like indie film space and moving into the
next thing that you actually did love and were indicative
of you and what you wanted to do.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
By the way, I don't know that it was ever
a love of anything I I. When I get into something,
I try to do the best I can. And I
didn't have like I didn't sit around ever and go
this is the passion project that I want to make.
After Fat Beach came a movie called Kissing a Fool.
I had read the script.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
It's a wrong com, I wis you know I've known
you for a while now, And when I went to
do our research, I was like, it was a rom com.
He made a rom come.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
But again, you know what it's You watch Fatbeach Kissing
full Entrage. There's literally lines that are the same. I've
taken lines from those movies and put them in Entrage
because no one really saw the first two although you
know you know what.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
I mean they were They might now during the retrospective exactly.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
But I always had a natural ability for dialogue and character.
The thing that which is still a struggle to this
day that was always hard is storytelling, a real structural
storytelling in ninety minutes, giving an actual A, B and C.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Me.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Writing dialogue that sounds natural and real was always the
easiest thing in the world to me. So even that
first screenplay that I wrote at Tulane, when I knew nothing.
Steve Levinson, who ultimately became my manager, was Mark Wahlberg's manager.
He read that strip. He's like, you're a genius with dialogue,
but this but there's no fucking story, Like nothing happens.
It's like, what is this? And that was always the
hardest part for me. And you know, people would say
(24:01):
often like if you give me the story, I can
write a script in like a few hours. You know.
I wrote like a curb your Enthusiasm speck that sold Entourage.
I wrote it in like four hours, and that's when
Steve was like, oh my god, like you should write
the show idea I have.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
You're listening to Curiosity Storyteller Studio or from our guest
Doug Ellen. When we get back from these messages, you're.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Listening to Rucous Avenue.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Welcome back to Curiosity Storyteller Studio. We're back in the
studio with Doug Ellen, the creator of Entourage.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
Kissing a fool was another situation. They gave me a script. Again.
I had no jobs, by the way, so it wasn't
like I had offers and I was coming in. But
I was always I'm always the type of person like, nah,
I don't want to do that. It's not great. And Steve,
in his credit, was always like, you'll figure it out.
And that script was written by a guy named James Fry,
who I don't if you're remember, but he wrote this
(25:02):
book A Million Little Pieces that Oprah put on her list.
It became the biggest thing in America. And then it
turned out he kind of made up the story and
it wasn't true and it was a big scandal. But
he had written a script that was not, in my mind,
was not good, and Steve said, you'll figure it out.
And like I said about the Parent Trap earlier, I
went into the meeting with two great guys who I love,
(25:22):
Andrew Foreman, Dogmadillo, and I sold them on something that
I hated and didn't even know how I was going
to do it. I just walked in. I said, this
could be this, this could be that Harry mamett'sad, whatever
it was. And I got the job, and then I
just started rewriting the script, and by the time we
made it, I actually whatever it's worth, you know, I
really liked it. And that was a movie that we
(25:43):
made for a million and a half dollars completely independently.
Universal picked it up released it on twenty two hundred screens,
which again, these things don't happen with independent films, as
you and both of my independent films were released as
if they were studio films. They were not released. Hey,
here's a little indie like, appreciate it. What comes from
(26:04):
I don't think that luck was good though, because I
wish I think A Fool was released on a small
amount of screens as like a little independent movie, as
opposed to It's this giant movie with David Schwimmer from Friends,
because you know it was on the cover of Variety.
Is the downfall of Universal's marketing staff because it didn't make.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
The perform win perform.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
And I was like, at that time, I didn't know
we made two point three billion dollars opening weekend. It
costs one point six I'm like, oh my god, you
don't I know, Like this is a bomb. I'm like
a bomb. I tell all the people who put money
got their money back, and everybody was happy. We had
a great time in the premiere, but it was it
was a wild ride because before that movie came out,
I had that minute in town where everyone wanted to
(26:45):
meet with me, and everyone was this and I got
a big deal to do the Heartbreak Kid long before
The Bend, still a reversion of it, and Swimmer and
I were going to do that, and then the movie
came out, and as Hollywood will tell you once, you
have a failure in their minds, a failure, I mean
I was. I was. It was like I had disappeared. Yeah,
worse than disappears. Like they said, you can't ever be
(27:06):
in this town again. For this little independent movie. Everyone
thought was like, what a success story. So it's pretty
wild wild how it goes so.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Wild that, like how much you have to understand about
the actual business side to create to generate success in
this town. But let with the with Entourage and the
origin story that you started to tell. One of the
things I love both about your story about Kissing and
the Kissing Fool and Entourage and your first the first
(27:35):
movie that you made with the with the ten thousand
dollars the twenty thousand dollars, is that you always are
able to find a way to bring, just like those
lines that you took from one show to the other,
a bit of your story into these characters. So with
the origin story of Entourage, you've talked about Mark and
Steve coming to you with this idea and that it
(27:58):
was something that was a world house of yours. Can
you talk about bringing that world into something that you
knew well?
Speaker 4 (28:04):
Because again, you know, I remember the meeting, and you know, look,
I got a negative bent to my personality, I guess,
but when Steve told me the idea, I was like,
I don't want to watch a bunch of fucking losers
hang on to somebody and live off of them. I
think that sounds horrible to me. And Mark's friends they
(28:24):
were not They weren't family, they weren't like a brother,
they weren't like my friends from childhood. So again Steve
said the same thing, you'll figure it out, and I
went home and I remember just like sitting there and
I going, you know what, every television show, every movie,
it's a family, like that's what makes things work. Again,
however it is, so I said, how can I make
(28:44):
them in? How can I give them some purpose? Whatever
it is? So, even if it was the character of Turtle,
he was the positive light. He was the guy that
could build everybody up. And so that was really where
I came from. And then I said, well, what could
be better for me than to the you know, four
New Yorkers that I can write the dialogue, that I
know that the way my friends and I talk to
(29:05):
each other. And at the time, which it's wild how
the culture keeps shifting. But you know, when I was
growing up, R rated comedies were the big thing, you know,
where it was Animal House, Porky's kind of a little
lower rent version of that, but that was the big thing.
And then that kind of disappeared. It got a little
PC and it got a little quiet, and when Atrash
came around, what I really tried to sell it onto
(29:27):
HBO was this is going to be men talking the
way men actually talk. Now I have to defend myself
that wait, you got you talk like that? You you
should be in jail for talking like that. But at
the time and the reviews, thank god, appreciated that it
was an authentic look at the way people actually talk,
whether you like them, whether you don't like them. Yeah,
like that's how they talked. And you know, the funny
(29:49):
thing about comedy is you can't if it's funny at all,
that's bad. Like if it's good fellas, they could say
racist stuff. They could say whatever they want to go, well,
it's there. They're gangsters, so that's how it is. But
I wrote the most realistic version of how Men Talk,
and I tried my best to in the way I
observed Hollywood, to observe the way I saw people in
(30:12):
this town.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
How did you and Steve me just because he's such
a Oh no, was each other from that long ago?
Speaker 4 (30:19):
Yeah? He was my brother's friend of Tulane and actually
when he moved out, he lived in my apartment when
he first got Wow. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
When I approach characters, I don't necessarily understand when we're
trying to resonate, make characters that resonate with multiple people.
I think I always try to think of the most
humane aspect of that character and drive it home. Your characters,
even these brash characters in Entourage, but also your characters
across all the different the different work that you've done,
(30:45):
they really resonate with multiple demographics and people from different backgrounds.
What do you think it is about your character approach
that helps you cultivate characters that are so lovable?
Speaker 4 (30:55):
Way I the way I try to look at things,
and again I don't go that deep into it. How
can I make this that I'm a big believer in loyalty,
and I think loyal characters, even when they're assholes, people
like them, like Ari for instance on the show words
to Me, or like someone who has a big mouth.
(31:17):
Is not the thing that makes you like or not
like somebody. It's when they're there for you when you're down,
when you really need them. And it's not that I
attempt to write characters like that, It's just what I
feel in my soul. And I think when you have
a group of people, that's the thing, and the anti
is usually the ones who aren't loyal don't respect the groups.
So that's kind of how I always have gone about it,
(31:40):
and it just kind of is in my data.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
And are listening to Curiosity Storyteller Studio or from our
guest Doug Ellen when we get back from these messages.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
You're listening to rock Us Avenue Radio, available now on
the free iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Welcome back to Curiosity Storyteller Studio. We're back in the
studio with Doug Ellen, the creator of Entourage. What about
the balance between this like satire and then the earnest storylines.
What do you find is most difficult about blending those
two together and what do you feel it comes very
seamlessly from you, or what is your approach to making
(32:32):
sure there's right balance.
Speaker 4 (32:33):
Well, a lot of times satire is the word that
was used. But I from the minute this show started,
I was like, let's make this feel like a documentary,
Like I don't want to be over the top. And
some things might have been, and some people might go, oh,
I don't believe that, but I really tried to make
everything from the friendships to the storylines be as realistic
(32:55):
as possible so that you couldn't say that didn't happen.
And most of it was taken off of some version
of something that did happen, you know, whether it was
to me or someone else. So I didn't really try
to be satirical with the show like some of my
favorite movies, like about Hollywood, The Big Picture and The Player,
like those are satires. They're over the top and they're
(33:17):
broad and they're you know, like making fun of it.
I was like trying to say this Ari guy, which
we know the real Ri guy is exists, this is real.
This is how this guy operates in this town. This
is what it is. Like it or don't like it,
that's what it is you know what about you?
Speaker 2 (33:37):
You and your creative process. I almost like I can't
wait for this answer. What does a day look like?
Or what is your creative process when you're really getting
into a story, do you have one? I feel like
Doug's answer is gonna be like there's tequila and there's
a white more.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
It's honestly torture for real though, and people go, why
don't you make more stuff? Oh? The town hate you.
I don't make more stuff because I hate so much
of the process. Sadly, I wish I didn't. I mean,
when I sit down to write, I like trying to
psych myself up going up the stairs to go, you
fucking you could do it. You could do it. But
the amount of times that I've woken up and gone like,
(34:20):
I don't know how to break a story. I don't
know how to do this, and often which sucks and
is somewhat counter of well, very counterproductive to being successful,
is I you got to put a gun to my head.
I mean there's I've had producers literally come to my
house and go, I'm gonna lock you in that fucking room,
which my mother used to do with homework. Buttons like this,
I am like a lot of people this time, I
(34:41):
have tremendous add I'm an audible person, which is why
when I found podcasts, I'm like, God, they pay people
to do this shit. This is the easiest thing in
the world, you know. But sitting at a keyboard and
typing is legitimate torture to me. And I always say, like,
to writers who love it, I'm so bitter and so
(35:01):
envious and so jealous because I wish I did and
I never have. And I've often loved, whether I'm right
or wrong, stuff that I've written. And sometimes I'll go
back and read stuff and go, fuck, you're pretty damn good.
You should be doing this more often. But I just
I don't like it. If you ever saw adaptation, uh huh,
Like that's you know, I go through that ship every
single day. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
I feel you've been a very deep, deep way with
the with your personal take on and everything that you do.
You often bring a lot of your personal viewpoints into
your storytelling. What is there something that across all the
different characters, et cetera that you create you find as
(35:42):
an ongoing theme. Besides you said loyalty, but is there like,
is it family? Is it inspiration. I know a lot
of the characters that we find, I try to find
some sort of purpose to their character arc that really
drives me because of whatever my life experiences were. I'm
curious if you.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
Mean, I think it's the same, like without being repetitive,
it just loyalty carries it for me and it's more important.
Like you know, sometimes when I used to hear things
about answers these rich spoiled guys, which is so stupid
because they weren't. They were working class guys. One of
them happened to have money, but the three of the
other three were kind of hanging on. But to me,
it was they cared more about each other than they
care about money, and they care about anything. And that's
(36:23):
you know, I can't even say, oh, this was my design.
It's just how I think about friendships. I don't know
why you be friendship. I don't know why you be
friends with anyone who doesn't have that.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
What do you like better? Directing? Writing?
Speaker 4 (36:34):
Do you have one that you like directing? But I'm
an asshole because I usually don't like scripts, so I
read other people's scripts and I've been I mean, I've
gotten scripts that have turned into hugely successful movies, and
again it could be just my bad read of it.
I didn't see it properly. And you know, it's the
interesting thing about screenplays because I've I've dealt without myself.
I've had people read my scripts, hate them, and then
(36:57):
see a finished product and go, I see it like that.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Yeah, let's attit about you moving into podcasting and Victory
the podcast. It's co hosted by Kevin Dylan, Johnny Drama
and Kevin Conley, Eric Murphy, and it shows or it's
for the fans to kind of get that behind the
scenes experience of what you guys and all your Hollywood
combined Hollywood experiences, and then of course the chemistry between
(37:22):
you guys and just the storytelling that happens. What is
it that really attracted you to podcasting? What was that
that story from a storytelling standpoint? What was that conversion
from going from writing scripts to creating or crafting like
really great episodes and podcasts.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
So nothing attracted to me to me at all. And
the idea of talking more about entourage, which I'm happy
to do with you today, I had zero interest in
doing that. And I've always been a person who you know, again,
it's that that self hating stuff that somebody writers in Hollywood.
I've always hated my voice, so I would hear my
voice on like an answering machine. I be like, why
(38:02):
the fuck do you sound? What the fuck is wrong
with you? And when I started doing this, I was like, God,
this is so natural, and.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
This is that's interesting.
Speaker 4 (38:12):
What I grew up loving was stand up except I hated,
as I said, the idea of being a club. But
this was stand up in a room by myself, you know. Yeah.
So Kevin Conley just came to me and said, do
you want to do this? And I was like, I'm
not doing an Entourage podcast. But when we made it
victory and we said which you know, it sometimes would
(38:33):
annoy Kevin. But just like Entourage, I don't want to
make a show about Hollywood. I want to make a
show about friendships. And I wanted the podcast to be
the same thing. So we talk about everything. We talk
about what movie we saw, sporting events, you know, playing
golf together, and those guys which I cast, guys who
were like my friends in high school. We have that energy,
(38:53):
so but we don't. I mean, there's so little editing.
It's so we walk in. What are we talking about today? Okay,
go and we do an hour and it's over and
that's it, and it's just it's one of the most
natural things I've ever done.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
I love that as a season storyteller who now is
working in this podcast space and has done things in
all these different spaces, documentaries, rom com, We've got your
you know your of course everyone knows you from Entourage.
Is there a story or a project that you wish
(39:29):
had got more light that you really loved?
Speaker 4 (39:32):
Well, I have one right now, so we're going to
see what happens with it, if it lives. But I
did a pilot which I thought I could beat the system,
you know, make my own pilot, which unlike which I've
always told everybody, make a feature, make it as inexpensively
as you can do it, and if it's good, it's
going to get traction. Doesn't mean it's going to change
your life, doesn't mean anything. But I know that now.
(39:54):
But that being said, I went, you know what, I'm
sitting here doing this podcast. The pandemic was happening. I've
got Emmy nominees, Kevin Dylan and Kevin Connolly Emmy winners.
I think Charlie wanted Emmy, Charlie Sheen Emmy Winner for sure,
Martin Sheen. I've got these guys that I hanging around with.
Let's go make something where nobody gives us notes and
nobody does anything and we just go and do it.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
You said you were going to do this. I wanted
to watch it immediately, so I don't think you were
so crazy to go against industry.
Speaker 4 (40:20):
And well, the reason it's crazy is because with a feature,
you're going, here, go air it and see what happens,
give us a certain amount of money and whatever. A
With a pilot, you're going, hey, let's enter into a
multi year agreement. Next episode is going to cost somewhere
between four to six million dollars. But what I can
say is, and I really am Solfware. It is an
(40:41):
excellent pilot. Pound for pound, it is better than the
Ensurrage pilot. And we've had well whatever I mean, we
haven't sold it, and we've had great meetings with everybody,
and the response has been pretty great. But whatever it is,
whether it's the wrong demographic, whether it's this or not,
we haven't sold it yet. I've had incredibly big producers
(41:03):
see this and every big agent in town, go I
want to take this out. It's going and it hasn't sold.
And when I look back on my career, but I
went and made some eight minute short film and sold it.
And when I went and made at Beach and sold it,
and kissing a fool, I could have never imagined that
we'd have something this good.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
With this cast, this far along in your career.
Speaker 4 (41:22):
This far along, which wouldn't sell. But that being said,
I'm debating right now actually just making it a feature
and making it a ninety minute version of this and
going from there.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
So well, I think it speaks a little bit to
where the industry is right now and how tough things
are and how confusing things are after the onset of
streaming and everything that happened. You're listening to Curiosity Storyteller
Studio or from our guest Doug Ellen. When we get
back from these messages.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
You're listening to Ruckus Avenue Radio Avenue available now on
the freeing iHeart Radio app.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Welcome back to Curiosity Storyteller Studio. We're back in the
studio with Doug Ellet, the creator of Entourage. Can you
talk to me about your legacy and what you hope. People,
there's what everyone and the press and the people and
all the fans say they take away from the content
(42:26):
that you've created. What do you hope that they take away?
Speaker 4 (42:30):
You know, I'd like to live, so I don't like
to think about a lift. I would just like to live.
I have a new baby. I'd like to see her.
You know.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Oh, you don't worry. That's not I didn't mean in
a morbid sense. I just meant what I think.
Speaker 4 (42:44):
And one of the reasons I was willing to do
the podcast. Entrage was universally critically acclaimed show, nominated for
Emmys every year. And somehow, as we know, this culture
and I don't even want to say the culture, the
schmucks that ended up being the writers in this culture
for the last seven ten years wherever they came from
(43:07):
our elitist snobby you know, and somehow they show that
was as I said, you know, The New York Times
female reviewers said we were the smartest show on television
when we came out. The New York Times said we
were the best show on television in two thousand and
four drama or comedy. And then suddenly we were like
defending ourselves for some legacy of misogyny and racism and
(43:29):
garbage like that. So what I hope is that people
look at whatever I've done and see that it was
all done with the thoughts of writing good people who
care about each other, who may say stupid shit and
may do stupid shit, but are actually at the end
of the day, people with good intentions. And then I
(43:49):
made people laugh and entertain them.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
I love that. What advice would you give future storytellers?
Speaker 4 (43:56):
Write work every day because the time in this town
it goes so fast. And I have historically, even on Entourage,
I mean, we would have a writer's room and they
would just look at me like, why are you fucking
playing Nintendo? Why aren't you writing? And again, I believe,
(44:19):
like I believe in any athlete, any talent. There's some
people who have the ability to work all day and night.
There's some people who have raw talent pure talent, and
there's some people who have both. But it's important to
try to get habits and to live. The most successful
(44:40):
I've been is when I was in financial fear, when
i would wake up that I'm going to starve, ye
that I'm not going to be able to feed my
family By the way.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
My biggest wins came out of that single time.
Speaker 4 (44:51):
Mine as well. And I think this is a town
you really don't want to get comfortable. And weirdly enough,
since I believe I did write the definitive show a
out this town understanding how up and down it is,
I still have managed to let things happen to me
that I could have prevented with forcing myself to go,
you know, harder.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
So I think that's beautiful advice for everyone. We were
entering into the last segment of our show. It is
a rapid fire questions where we do kind of a
character analysis on the man that is Doug Ellen. So,
first things that come to mind when I say the
word home? What comes to mind?
Speaker 4 (45:30):
New York?
Speaker 2 (45:32):
What about heaven?
Speaker 4 (45:34):
Dogs everywhere?
Speaker 2 (45:36):
I love your love of dogs. What about when I
say the word hell writing? What food do you find
most comforting? Pizza because of New Yorker?
Speaker 4 (45:55):
Maybe maybe I love Italian food all Italian food?
Speaker 2 (45:59):
What sound makes you?
Speaker 4 (46:00):
What sound makes me smile? My babies laugh?
Speaker 2 (46:05):
Yeah? How do you define.
Speaker 4 (46:07):
Love, unwavering loyalty?
Speaker 2 (46:13):
How do you define success?
Speaker 4 (46:15):
Happiness?
Speaker 2 (46:16):
How do you define failure?
Speaker 4 (46:18):
Misery?
Speaker 2 (46:21):
Doug Ellen? Do you believe in magic?
Speaker 4 (46:24):
Do I believe in magic like card tricks or.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
What kind of whatever your definition of magic? I don't
second chances. Yeah, love at first sight, yep, without considering time,
ability or money an obstacle. If you could learn one
thing or do one thing that you're not doing right now,
what would it be?
Speaker 4 (46:45):
Focus?
Speaker 2 (46:49):
If you could create a story about or with anyone
in the world, who or what would it be?
Speaker 4 (46:56):
I don't know what the story would be, but John
Cleese and Albert Brooks, I love it.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
Let's see that one come to life. What word best
describes you as a story teller?
Speaker 4 (47:10):
So angry? How is a story teller? Fuck?
Speaker 2 (47:15):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (47:15):
That's a tough one. I don't know. Others have to
describe me. I don't know to describe myself as.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
I don't honest. I'm gonna say honest. What inspires or
drives you?
Speaker 4 (47:25):
Other people? Other people's hard work inspires me.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
And the last question, Doug Ellen, what is your favorite story?
Speaker 4 (47:35):
My favorite story?
Speaker 2 (47:36):
Yeah, first thing that comes to mind.
Speaker 4 (47:41):
That is all dogs go to Heaven.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
And dogs. That's amazing, Doug, thank you so much with
us that story. Del absolutely appreciate it. If you're enjoying
this conversation, make sure you check out our YouTube channel
and don't forget to hit subscribe
Speaker 1 (48:16):
The world's most listen to South Asian radio and podcast network.
Check out Rucus Avenue Radio dot com for our full
schedule and listen to past episodes available on all major
podcast platforms.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
This is a Drusha and you're listening to Curiosity Storyteller
Studio on Ruckus Avenue Radio. This is a Drusha and
you're listening to Curiosities Storyteller Studio.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Dumb.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
What's happening?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
How are you?
Speaker 4 (00:33):
I am good?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
You in Entourage got a reputation for brilliantly good, blending
comedy and drama and gave us this beautiful inside look
at Hollywood. When creating the show, You've talked often about
how you were an outsider to that experience, so that
you were joining that experience, were bringing your own experiences
(00:57):
into creating these characters, and these were else Now that
you have found yourself in this world where you're creating
a world that you're not, it's not native to you,
how do you craft that experience and what do you
hope the audiences would take away from that experience based
(01:18):
on what you were bringing to it.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
Well, I've never been a person who worries about the audience.
You have to worry about, you know, the people paying you,
because they give you all their comments and it's funny
because you say drama and comedy. And when I started writing,
the notes from HBO were basically, stop with the heart
and the drama and we just want like it to
be fun and sex and you know whatever. And it
(01:40):
wasn't ever what I wanted to write or whatever I
feel as far as the audience, that was never something
I thought about. What I did was and where the
show started was when I'm Mark Wohlberg and his manager
came to me and said, oh, we want you to
write the show about Mark and his friends and that
world that Mark and his friends were in with foreign too,
(02:01):
anything that I would ever have experienced in my life
that I said, you know what, like, let me make
it my friends, and let me imagine that me and
my friends lived in this world and how we would be.
So I have the same group and it's not four
of us, it's like fourteen of us that and there's
a whole group of girls too that fall into that
that are from kindergarten and we still chat on texts daily.
(02:23):
And I wanted to show the way I grew up,
the loyalty I grew up, the friendships that I grew
up with and all that stuff was more important than
all of the Hollywood stuff to me. So again it
wasn't like, what did I want the audience to feel?
But I wanted to kind of show the experiences that
I had and imagine that you know, I was a
famous movie star.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Welcome to Curiosity Entertainment's Storyteller Studio. My name is Adrusha,
and I create and write movies, music and television. Each week,
join me and my team as we talk to the
world's great as storytellers in dude of the answer to
the question where do the best stories come from? Now,
(03:04):
let me introduce you to today's guest. Today, we welcome
Doug Ellen to the studio, a master of modern storytelling
whose journey through Hollywood has been nothing short but cinematic itself.
Doug Ellen, perhaps best known as the creator, writer, and
producer of the hit TV series Entourage, has skillfully carved
(03:26):
a niche for himself in the entertainment industry. Entourage not
only entertained but also provided a behind the scenes look
at Hollywood through a lens that was both humorous and
sharply observant. It ran for eight successful seasons and culminated
in a feature film encapsulating the highs and lows of
the film industry. But Doug's career is filled with more
than just a p iconic series. His ability to blend
(03:47):
comedy with the nuanced, often harsh realities of Hollywood life
has earned him critical acclaim and a dedicated fan base.
From his first TV gig to his ventures into filmmaking,
every step in Doug's career has been a ten estimate
to his talent and his relentless pursuit of storytelling excellence. Today,
Doug will share with us the highs of his career,
the lessons learned, and the behind the scenes stories of
(04:10):
creating some of television's most beloved characters. Join us as
we explore the craft, the creativity, and the personal journeys
that have fined one of Hollywood's most influential creators. Welcome
Doug Ellen. This episode was brought to you in partnership
with Little Black Tucks. Little Black Tucks is my go
to when I need a timeless look, whether I'm speaking
(04:32):
on a film panel, walking a red carpet, or need
a bold, sophisticated look for a photoshoot. Little Black Tucks
has me covered. Little Black Tucks isn't just a clothing company.
They're a company with a story, a strong why, and
you know I love a good story. They're breaking boundaries
and creating clothing that empowers women with versatile, upscale options.
(04:53):
I love my Little Black Tucks and I know you
will too, Doug, Welcome to Storyteller's Studio. I want to
start with your earlyest influences. Where did your love for
stories and storytelling? When was it first ignited? Where did
it come from?
Speaker 4 (05:09):
I mean as early as I can remember. Movies, comedy,
you know, mel Brooks back then. I know we can't
say Woody Allen anymore. He's been canceled so many times, but.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
He's canceled, but he still seems me making movies.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
You know, nobody sees him since I think I'm the
only one but Woody Allen, Albert Brooks, even Seinfeld, which
is later, but mel Brooks, the Zucker Brothers. You know,
the first time I remember actually saying I want to
make movies, even though I did absolutely nothing about it
until I got to Los Angeles. Not in school, not
in fun, but in like nineteen seventy nine. I was
(05:45):
in camp maybe eighty whatever it was, and a friend
of mine from school who's still one of those friends
that I speak to all the time. So this movie
Airplane just came out that you're gonna lose your mind
when you see this movie. And I remember sitting in
a theater watching that movie. Sure you know, seeing and
now it's another movie by the way that you know,
people have problems with things, you know, and they write
(06:06):
like like, what's why it's problematic to people? But I
remember sitting in that packed theater and never seeing a
group of people together laughed so hard in my life,
and just going, I don't know, I want to I
want to do something with this. And then all of
those kind of writer director uh like I said, Woody Allen,
Albert Brooks, mel Brooks, those were guys that I just
(06:28):
wanted to emulate, and that was something I wanted to
do when I first came out here. I started as
a stand up I thought like I wanted to be
like an actor like those guys, and they kind of
diverged away from that after a couple of bad auditions.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Let's talk about that. What was the turning point? Because
I know you started and you tried, he's tried stand
up comedy, and before that you were, I believe in
the mailroom correct tell us a little bit, because one
of the things I love about you is you're even
from the beginning, from the stories I've heard you tell,
your unapologetic nature of just being you, just being you.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
We're stupid, it's it's it's you.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
I love it. I actually think it's what makes you
wildly popular, and even as the head of the mail
room where you started.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
So again, like to give this like clear context, it's
it's it's pretty wild. The story of my little mailroom
ventures that Newline Cinema, which was kind of at the
beginning of Newline Cinema before they really exploded and became
an enormous film company. And I somehow got a temp
agency sent me in there, and I somehow talked my
way into the head job at the mail room. So
(07:35):
there were two other guys in there, and actually one
of them, TOMMYO Haver, who became a pretty successful director himself.
We wrote this first short film that I did together,
but in that mail room, which I sort of exaggerate
the timeline. It was probably like six to eight weeks
that I was in that mailroom, and when I left
that mail room, it was because and I used a
(07:56):
scene that was inspired by this an entourage. But I
walked one day and I was walking down the hall
at New Line and the vice president, Marjorie someone or other,
she came storming out of her office with hot coffee
and literally bumped into me and spilled coffee on me
and screams, what the fuck are you doing there?
Speaker 2 (08:14):
What you say?
Speaker 4 (08:15):
What the fuck are you doing? And then I look
up and realize, like, that's the end of my tenure
at New Linch. And I left, and I was like,
my like life is over. What am I gonna do?
Like this is a bad thing. But I still had
friends there, and I was doing these amateur stand up
nights and I sent out flyers to everybody to raise
money for a short film that I was gonna do
(08:36):
with this tommyo Haveber and Mike de Luca came with
other people at the group of Mike DeLuca, who's now
an Oscar winning producer and at the time was VPP
like different than the Marjorie. It wasn't him that spilled
the coffee on me, and he came and saw me
do stand up and he wrote a check for ten
thousand dollars for me to do the short film.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
You're listening to Curiosity Storyteller Studio som our guests Doug Ellen.
When we get back from these messages.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Don't worry about me.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
I've got another so too killed, Don't worry about me.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
Check out ruckus Avenue radio dot com for our full
schedule and listen to our past episodes, available on all
major podcast platforms.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Welcome back to Curiosity Storyteller Studio. We're back in the
studio with Doug Ellen, the creator of Entourage.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Some good things happen. You know. I start doing auditions
for the short film and a friend of mine tells
me he's got this actor that's perfect for this role.
And he brings in pre friends, David Schwimmer and into
my apartment to audition for this seven minute short film
that I'm doing. And Schwimmer walked in and did one
line and it's done. That's it. We became very close
(09:56):
friends from that, and he did my film. But what's
truly wild is, you know, this first short film that
I did with Ernie Hudson, I got in it and
Johnny Silverman and David Trimmer and an actor named Helen
Martin who was just was incredible, who was in Friday
a lot of movies, two two seven television show. And
so I made the short film. But I had never
(10:17):
been on a film set when I got in there.
So the first time I ever got on a film
set with all these professional people who, as you know,
you make an independent film, there's a lot of people
who need work, and there's people who will come in
and help young filmmakers and do it. And I have
all these great people that I still am in touch
with these days. And I remember the cinematographer sets up
a shot with Ernie Hudson, who's like so phenomenal this actor,
(10:38):
and he shows me like he's like, what do you think?
And I go up to a camera for the first
time in my life, a movie, a film camera, and
I look in the lens and I just see nothing
but black. And I think, you know, is the lens
kept on? Are they screwing with me? And there's this
crew all there for free looking at me. The director
like an idiot, and I whispered him, I'm like, I
don't see nothing, and he says, you gotta like really
(11:00):
press your eye to the lens, which is different now
than digital and everything. This is an old school thirty
five millimeters panorama or actually we shot sixteen. But so
I shoot this short film knowing nothing, we edit it together.
I don't know where I'm going or what I'm doing
with this, and two things happen, like it sounds crazy,
but Showtime sees it and wants to buy it, and
(11:21):
they want to play it before the player on Showtime. Okay,
seven minute short film that it took me a year
to make, which now you know, back then I had
film strips all over my apartment. Today you could do
it on an iPhone for one hundred and fifty dollars
and be done with it by the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
It's a little more difficult back then, a little more difficult.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Took probably a year, probably twenty thousand dollars, aside from
the ten that Mike was nice enough to give us.
So it sells to Showtime, and then a producer sees it,
who's making the movie The Parent Trap, and he's like,
you're a genius. You got to direct this movie The
Parent Trap. Now the only set I've ever been on
(11:57):
is this this little.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Thing set you put together.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Yeah, which, by the way, isn't even like, I mean,
it's such a dialogue piece. It's just a static camera.
The shot we're talking about wasn't like Scorsese's called the cabatit,
you know, it's just like looking at Ernie Hudson like this.
So I get a meeting and where is this movie at?
This movie's at New Line Cinema. Oh no way, I've
been thrown out of Newline, made this short film. Whatever
(12:21):
the timeline is, six eight, twelve months, whatever it is.
I'm now going back into Mike De Luca's office as
the director of the Parent Trap.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Did he laugh?
Speaker 4 (12:31):
He laughed. But the worst part is, which I try
to tell people now, because I've, as you said, I've
always been this kind of straightforward, honest person instead of
a salesman, which now i'm better at. I know that
this town is mostly full of shit and the best
thing you can do is kind of just sell. But
I walk into this meeting with Mike de Luca. I honestly,
(12:51):
I've seen every movie one hundred times that exist, because
I love movies. But I've never really I've never read
a book on directing. I've never studied, I've never done anything.
Mike starts giving me basic questions about how I'm going
to make this movie, and he might as well speaking
in the language to me because I don't know what
he's talking about. It's like, how are you going to
shoot this? And I'm like, how am I? Oh?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Am?
Speaker 4 (13:13):
I goodness, I'm just like I'm gonna make it funny.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
What do you mean?
Speaker 4 (13:16):
Like, I'm you know, it's gonna be whatever. So Mike
took me to lunch after that. He said, look, you're
you're gonna have a career. I suggest you go to
film school. You do this. So anyway, I did not
get the job, which today I could have read a book.
I could have walked in there and even if I
didn't know what I was doing, I could have sound
told it like I knew what I was doing. But
I ended up going AFI for a year and then
(13:37):
came out of there and made another short film. And
I don't know if you want to continue on this panel.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
I want to take him back really quick to your
upbringing a little bit. Are you a single child?
Speaker 4 (13:47):
No? No, I have two brothers.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
You have two brothers. During that, like, tell us a
little bit about what created this kind of mentality to
which you approach both your work, and I think is
very indicative of your storytelling and it comes through in
your stories. Is it you grow up with two brothers?
Where are you growing up?
Speaker 4 (14:06):
Grew up in merrick Long Islands.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Merrick Long Island. You talked a little bit about the
group's of your friends, But what is that hoodspa and
this idea of just coming out and like doing something
you've never done before and selling it. Where does it
come from?
Speaker 4 (14:18):
You know what? I don't know because everyone thought I
was crazy. My father I told me I was going
to go out to lab.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Your father do he's an accountant? Accountant?
Speaker 4 (14:25):
Yeah, My older brother's a lawyer. My older brother's a banker.
I don't didn't know a single person in Hollywood and
film anything. I just loved movies. And I also, sadly,
like a lot of people in this town, I was
lazy at everything else. I was terrible in school. I
used to sit in classes going what am I doing here?
(14:46):
And I was on a path to go to law
school even though I didn't have good grades. I wasn't
going to be particularly good.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Well, you knew when you grow up.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
This is what it was. And it was like really
nothing else. And about eight weeks before I graduated Too
Lane in New Orleans. I just I wrote a screenplay
again with no knowledge of how to write it, just
thinking like movies I see and what I do, and
that's what I did. And then I told my parents,
I'm moving to LA I'm going to be a stand
up comedian and I'm going.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
To make its weirdly familiar.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
I mean, it's a lot of people's stories and I
think you know this talent it is.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
I think that like the concept of like picking up everything,
moving across the country and just starting something new. I
think it takes a certain type of mentality. And again
it's one of the things. I love the way that
you lead a room, and I think it's indicative of
why your shows have had the energy that they do.
And it comes from somewhere deeper. It comes with this
(15:42):
craziness just saying whatever.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
It is a craziness for sure. Just No, there's not
a single person who believed in me at all. It
was no one. I was like, yeah, you know, my
father I told me was doing stand up. He's like,
are you funny? You know, that's always helpful. But my
family was very into the arts, very into movies, so
we would talk about stuff again, not like technical intellectual way,
(16:08):
but no, I would say intellectual storytelling, okay, not about
filmmaking necessarily. Like I didn't even really understand that. I
was just like, that's great. That makes me move, that
makes me laugh, that does that for me. So it
was just something I wanted to do.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
You're listening to Curiosity Storyteller Studio more from our guest
Doug Ellen. When we get back from these messages.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Ruck Us Avenue Radio.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Welcome back to Curiosity Storyteller Studio. We're back in the
studio with Doug Ellen, the creator of Entourage. Let's talk
about the comedy a little bit and how I know
you didn't spend a lot of time in comedy, but
you know, stand ups a very specific skill, and I
think it really changes the way that you approach building
characters and the way that you approach story. Tell us
(17:04):
a little bit about how your time and stand up,
your brief time and stand up, how it changed the
way you were writing and your experience in film school.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
You know, I don't know if it changed anything, but
I always say that was probably my most natural skill.
The problem is I don't like people. I don't like clubs.
I don't like being out late at night, so it
wasn't a lifestyle that was for me, unfortunately. And some
of my friends you know, who are very successful comedians
now like they love that. They're like, you know, they'll
(17:33):
be out at four o'clock in the morning. I'm like,
I can't do it.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
A different world.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
Yeah, it is a different world. And but I think
it was the thing I was most suited skill wise
to do. I again, I'm not suggesting I'm funny.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
But you are funny. It's funny.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
I would do pretty well for an amateur, but I
just didn't have the patients and the energy. And when
I got into film school and when I sold my
first short film, I was like, you know, I just
want to do it on my time and the way
I want to do it, without a crowd judging me.
So I didn't get to that place that that's sometimes
I regret and wish I tried to.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
You know, let's go back to your when you you
graduate AFI and you go to make your next few films.
This concept of you you're not making it for with
the You're making a film you love, not necessarily for
the context of what people find appropriate or is selling
well or whatever? That is, What was your decision for
(18:31):
your first film? And can you walk us.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
Through, by the way completely not what you just said,
because it was not a passion project, that was not
for lung.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Did you decide it?
Speaker 4 (18:40):
I got a call. I got hired to do a movie,
you know, at a film school. I'm a week out
of film school, a week probably a week wow, and
a guy calls me, I saw your short film. I
want to direct this movie called that Beach.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Okay, that beach. That Beach was about. I'm not sure
it's got a real thought.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
But the word for real phat in nineteen ninety one
is not even in the lexicon yet. And I actually,
you know, it's weird. I'm not saying that. Fat Beach
the movie. Although Complex magazine did a twenty five year
retrospective on.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
This movie, look at that.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
But it helped, it helped bring it into the mainstream
a little bit. Chris Rock used to talk about Fat
Beach and a stand up act. This was a movie.
A guy calls me, he says, I want you to
direct this movie, Fat Beach, And I was like, fat bitch.
Like what he's like now? Fat Beach phat non union
fifty thousand dollars budget, okay, and we want you to
(19:41):
like come make this way. So someone was hiring me
to make a movie. I think I was paid after
everything was said and done. I think I made about
eleven thousand dollars and the movie's been playing for twenty
five years. Again, I'm not suggesting you run out and
see it. I'm not thinking that the storytelling is somehow remarkable.
But there are some laughs, and there are some good
performances from you know, found a kid named Brian Hooks
(20:01):
who'd never been in a movie before. It was phenomenal.
And some other people. Jermaine Hopkins who was in stand
by Me at the time, he was in it also
and it was great. But I just got on a
set and we shot this thing in six days and
the guy ran out of money. Like done, wrap it up,
by the way. A little bit of unknown knowledge. Also,
(20:21):
I went to AFI with Darren Aronofsky, great filmmakers, and
I had him do second unit at the time on
that beach. Now, you're not going to see that on
his resume, okay, even though it's online.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
You will getts somewhere.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
I see this guy we couldn't even afford BTS. So
I do this six days and then six months later
it's like it's dead and I'm sitting around and a
friend of mine and the Marion Weinberg, who was producing
some movies I forget which ones, I said, Oh, I
made this, like I was making this thing. We did
it in six days. He sees it, He's like, I
(20:52):
can sell this, and I'm like what he calls up
Live Entertainment, which is you know, worldwide tributor. At the
point they see it and they're like, let's like put
one hundred grand into this movie and finish it. So
we come back I think a year later after we
were done, after it was just sitting in a trash can,
and we shoot like another five or six days, and
(21:14):
we edit it, interestingly enough, on Lightwortz, which is one
of the first digital platforms.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
We're now like moving away from film.
Speaker 4 (21:21):
And editing on the screen that's so digitized you can
barely even see the whole movie. And we finish it.
We give it to Live and I don't remember the
exact number. I'm pretty sure they released it on twelve
hundred screens around the world. This movie costs less than
two hundred thousand dollars. When everything was said and done,
they released it like it's some studio movie. I get
the call from the producer. We're doing a giant premiere
(21:43):
at the Galaxy. I mean, I'm at a movie premiere
for this thing, you know, And as you say, people
are asking me like, was this your passion? No, it
wasn't a passion project. It was a chance to whether
I made two dollars, it was a chance to be
on a set and make, you know, shoot film and
talk to actors, which was greatly.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
About finding your voice from there because I want to
get a little bit into entourage and the origin story
which you touched upon in our intro. But I would
love to know, just for all the directors and the
writers and the actors listening, where in that process graduate
a great prestigious film school, you get your first movie
(22:23):
that turns out to be not the dream you wanted.
What it was it like trying to find your voice
in this like indie film space and moving into the
next thing that you actually did love and were indicative
of you and what you wanted to do.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
By the way, I don't know that it was ever
a love of anything I I. When I get into something,
I try to do the best I can. And I
didn't have like I didn't sit around ever and go
this is the passion project that I want to make.
After Fat Beach came a movie called Kissing a Fool.
I had read the script.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
It's a wrong com, I wis you know I've known
you for a while now, And when I went to
do our research, I was like, it was a rom com.
He made a rom come.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
But again, you know what it's You watch Fatbeach Kissing
full Entrage. There's literally lines that are the same. I've
taken lines from those movies and put them in Entrage
because no one really saw the first two although you
know you know what.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
I mean they were They might now during the retrospective exactly.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
But I always had a natural ability for dialogue and character.
The thing that which is still a struggle to this
day that was always hard is storytelling, a real structural
storytelling in ninety minutes, giving an actual A, B and C.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Me.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Writing dialogue that sounds natural and real was always the
easiest thing in the world to me. So even that
first screenplay that I wrote at Tulane, when I knew nothing.
Steve Levinson, who ultimately became my manager, was Mark Wahlberg's manager.
He read that strip. He's like, you're a genius with dialogue,
but this but there's no fucking story, Like nothing happens.
It's like, what is this? And that was always the
hardest part for me. And you know, people would say
(24:01):
often like if you give me the story, I can
write a script in like a few hours. You know.
I wrote like a curb your Enthusiasm speck that sold Entourage.
I wrote it in like four hours, and that's when
Steve was like, oh my god, like you should write
the show idea I have.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
You're listening to Curiosity Storyteller Studio or from our guest
Doug Ellen. When we get back from these messages, you're.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Listening to Rucous Avenue.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Welcome back to Curiosity Storyteller Studio. We're back in the
studio with Doug Ellen, the creator of Entourage.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
Kissing a fool was another situation. They gave me a script. Again.
I had no jobs, by the way, so it wasn't
like I had offers and I was coming in. But
I was always I'm always the type of person like, nah,
I don't want to do that. It's not great. And Steve,
in his credit, was always like, you'll figure it out.
And that script was written by a guy named James Fry,
who I don't if you're remember, but he wrote this
(25:02):
book A Million Little Pieces that Oprah put on her list.
It became the biggest thing in America. And then it
turned out he kind of made up the story and
it wasn't true and it was a big scandal. But
he had written a script that was not, in my mind,
was not good, and Steve said, you'll figure it out.
And like I said about the Parent Trap earlier, I
went into the meeting with two great guys who I love,
(25:22):
Andrew Foreman, Dogmadillo, and I sold them on something that
I hated and didn't even know how I was going
to do it. I just walked in. I said, this
could be this, this could be that Harry mamett'sad, whatever
it was. And I got the job, and then I
just started rewriting the script, and by the time we
made it, I actually whatever it's worth, you know, I
really liked it. And that was a movie that we
(25:43):
made for a million and a half dollars completely independently.
Universal picked it up released it on twenty two hundred screens,
which again, these things don't happen with independent films, as
you and both of my independent films were released as
if they were studio films. They were not released. Hey,
here's a little indie like, appreciate it. What comes from
(26:04):
I don't think that luck was good though, because I
wish I think A Fool was released on a small
amount of screens as like a little independent movie, as
opposed to It's this giant movie with David Schwimmer from Friends,
because you know it was on the cover of Variety.
Is the downfall of Universal's marketing staff because it didn't make.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
The perform win perform.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
And I was like, at that time, I didn't know
we made two point three billion dollars opening weekend. It
costs one point six I'm like, oh my god, you
don't I know, Like this is a bomb. I'm like
a bomb. I tell all the people who put money
got their money back, and everybody was happy. We had
a great time in the premiere, but it was it
was a wild ride because before that movie came out,
I had that minute in town where everyone wanted to
(26:45):
meet with me, and everyone was this and I got
a big deal to do the Heartbreak Kid long before
The Bend, still a reversion of it, and Swimmer and
I were going to do that, and then the movie
came out, and as Hollywood will tell you once, you
have a failure in their minds, a failure, I mean
I was. I was. It was like I had disappeared. Yeah,
worse than disappears. Like they said, you can't ever be
(27:06):
in this town again. For this little independent movie. Everyone
thought was like, what a success story. So it's pretty
wild wild how it goes so.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Wild that, like how much you have to understand about
the actual business side to create to generate success in
this town. But let with the with Entourage and the
origin story that you started to tell. One of the
things I love both about your story about Kissing and
the Kissing Fool and Entourage and your first the first
(27:35):
movie that you made with the with the ten thousand
dollars the twenty thousand dollars, is that you always are
able to find a way to bring, just like those
lines that you took from one show to the other,
a bit of your story into these characters. So with
the origin story of Entourage, you've talked about Mark and
Steve coming to you with this idea and that it
(27:58):
was something that was a world house of yours. Can
you talk about bringing that world into something that you
knew well?
Speaker 4 (28:04):
Because again, you know, I remember the meeting, and you know, look,
I got a negative bent to my personality, I guess,
but when Steve told me the idea, I was like,
I don't want to watch a bunch of fucking losers
hang on to somebody and live off of them. I
think that sounds horrible to me. And Mark's friends they
(28:24):
were not They weren't family, they weren't like a brother,
they weren't like my friends from childhood. So again Steve
said the same thing, you'll figure it out, and I
went home and I remember just like sitting there and
I going, you know what, every television show, every movie,
it's a family, like that's what makes things work. Again,
however it is, so I said, how can I make
(28:44):
them in? How can I give them some purpose? Whatever
it is? So, even if it was the character of Turtle,
he was the positive light. He was the guy that
could build everybody up. And so that was really where
I came from. And then I said, well, what could
be better for me than to the you know, four
New Yorkers that I can write the dialogue, that I
know that the way my friends and I talk to
(29:05):
each other. And at the time, which it's wild how
the culture keeps shifting. But you know, when I was
growing up, R rated comedies were the big thing, you know,
where it was Animal House, Porky's kind of a little
lower rent version of that, but that was the big thing.
And then that kind of disappeared. It got a little
PC and it got a little quiet, and when Atrash
came around, what I really tried to sell it onto
(29:27):
HBO was this is going to be men talking the
way men actually talk. Now I have to defend myself
that wait, you got you talk like that? You you
should be in jail for talking like that. But at
the time and the reviews, thank god, appreciated that it
was an authentic look at the way people actually talk,
whether you like them, whether you don't like them. Yeah,
like that's how they talked. And you know, the funny
(29:49):
thing about comedy is you can't if it's funny at all,
that's bad. Like if it's good fellas, they could say
racist stuff. They could say whatever they want to go, well,
it's there. They're gangsters, so that's how it is. But
I wrote the most realistic version of how Men Talk,
and I tried my best to in the way I
observed Hollywood, to observe the way I saw people in
(30:12):
this town.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
How did you and Steve me just because he's such
a Oh no, was each other from that long ago?
Speaker 4 (30:19):
Yeah? He was my brother's friend of Tulane and actually
when he moved out, he lived in my apartment when
he first got Wow. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
When I approach characters, I don't necessarily understand when we're
trying to resonate, make characters that resonate with multiple people.
I think I always try to think of the most
humane aspect of that character and drive it home. Your characters,
even these brash characters in Entourage, but also your characters
across all the different the different work that you've done,
(30:45):
they really resonate with multiple demographics and people from different backgrounds.
What do you think it is about your character approach
that helps you cultivate characters that are so lovable?
Speaker 4 (30:55):
Way I the way I try to look at things,
and again I don't go that deep into it. How
can I make this that I'm a big believer in loyalty,
and I think loyal characters, even when they're assholes, people
like them, like Ari for instance on the show words
to Me, or like someone who has a big mouth.
(31:17):
Is not the thing that makes you like or not
like somebody. It's when they're there for you when you're down,
when you really need them. And it's not that I
attempt to write characters like that, It's just what I
feel in my soul. And I think when you have
a group of people, that's the thing, and the anti
is usually the ones who aren't loyal don't respect the groups.
So that's kind of how I always have gone about it,
(31:40):
and it just kind of is in my data.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
And are listening to Curiosity Storyteller Studio or from our
guest Doug Ellen when we get back from these messages.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
You're listening to rock Us Avenue Radio, available now on
the free iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Welcome back to Curiosity Storyteller Studio. We're back in the
studio with Doug Ellen, the creator of Entourage. What about
the balance between this like satire and then the earnest storylines.
What do you find is most difficult about blending those
two together and what do you feel it comes very
seamlessly from you, or what is your approach to making
(32:32):
sure there's right balance.
Speaker 4 (32:33):
Well, a lot of times satire is the word that
was used. But I from the minute this show started,
I was like, let's make this feel like a documentary,
Like I don't want to be over the top. And
some things might have been, and some people might go, oh,
I don't believe that, but I really tried to make
everything from the friendships to the storylines be as realistic
(32:55):
as possible so that you couldn't say that didn't happen.
And most of it was taken off of some version
of something that did happen, you know, whether it was
to me or someone else. So I didn't really try
to be satirical with the show like some of my
favorite movies, like about Hollywood, The Big Picture and The Player,
like those are satires. They're over the top and they're
(33:17):
broad and they're you know, like making fun of it.
I was like trying to say this Ari guy, which
we know the real Ri guy is exists, this is real.
This is how this guy operates in this town. This
is what it is. Like it or don't like it,
that's what it is you know what about you?
Speaker 2 (33:37):
You and your creative process. I almost like I can't
wait for this answer. What does a day look like?
Or what is your creative process when you're really getting
into a story, do you have one? I feel like
Doug's answer is gonna be like there's tequila and there's
a white more.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
It's honestly torture for real though, and people go, why
don't you make more stuff? Oh? The town hate you.
I don't make more stuff because I hate so much
of the process. Sadly, I wish I didn't. I mean,
when I sit down to write, I like trying to
psych myself up going up the stairs to go, you
fucking you could do it. You could do it. But
the amount of times that I've woken up and gone like,
(34:20):
I don't know how to break a story. I don't
know how to do this, and often which sucks and
is somewhat counter of well, very counterproductive to being successful,
is I you got to put a gun to my head.
I mean there's I've had producers literally come to my
house and go, I'm gonna lock you in that fucking room,
which my mother used to do with homework. Buttons like this,
I am like a lot of people this time, I
(34:41):
have tremendous add I'm an audible person, which is why
when I found podcasts, I'm like, God, they pay people
to do this shit. This is the easiest thing in
the world, you know. But sitting at a keyboard and
typing is legitimate torture to me. And I always say, like,
to writers who love it, I'm so bitter and so
(35:01):
envious and so jealous because I wish I did and
I never have. And I've often loved, whether I'm right
or wrong, stuff that I've written. And sometimes I'll go
back and read stuff and go, fuck, you're pretty damn good.
You should be doing this more often. But I just
I don't like it. If you ever saw adaptation, uh huh,
Like that's you know, I go through that ship every
single day. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
I feel you've been a very deep, deep way with
the with your personal take on and everything that you do.
You often bring a lot of your personal viewpoints into
your storytelling. What is there something that across all the
different characters, et cetera that you create you find as
(35:42):
an ongoing theme. Besides you said loyalty, but is there like,
is it family? Is it inspiration. I know a lot
of the characters that we find, I try to find
some sort of purpose to their character arc that really
drives me because of whatever my life experiences were. I'm
curious if you.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
Mean, I think it's the same, like without being repetitive,
it just loyalty carries it for me and it's more important.
Like you know, sometimes when I used to hear things
about answers these rich spoiled guys, which is so stupid
because they weren't. They were working class guys. One of
them happened to have money, but the three of the
other three were kind of hanging on. But to me,
it was they cared more about each other than they
care about money, and they care about anything. And that's
(36:23):
you know, I can't even say, oh, this was my design.
It's just how I think about friendships. I don't know
why you be friendship. I don't know why you be
friends with anyone who doesn't have that.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
What do you like better? Directing? Writing?
Speaker 4 (36:34):
Do you have one that you like directing? But I'm
an asshole because I usually don't like scripts, so I
read other people's scripts and I've been I mean, I've
gotten scripts that have turned into hugely successful movies, and
again it could be just my bad read of it.
I didn't see it properly. And you know, it's the
interesting thing about screenplays because I've I've dealt without myself.
I've had people read my scripts, hate them, and then
(36:57):
see a finished product and go, I see it like that.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Yeah, let's attit about you moving into podcasting and Victory
the podcast. It's co hosted by Kevin Dylan, Johnny Drama
and Kevin Conley, Eric Murphy, and it shows or it's
for the fans to kind of get that behind the
scenes experience of what you guys and all your Hollywood
combined Hollywood experiences, and then of course the chemistry between
(37:22):
you guys and just the storytelling that happens. What is
it that really attracted you to podcasting? What was that
that story from a storytelling standpoint? What was that conversion
from going from writing scripts to creating or crafting like
really great episodes and podcasts.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
So nothing attracted to me to me at all. And
the idea of talking more about entourage, which I'm happy
to do with you today, I had zero interest in
doing that. And I've always been a person who you know, again,
it's that that self hating stuff that somebody writers in Hollywood.
I've always hated my voice, so I would hear my
voice on like an answering machine. I be like, why
(38:02):
the fuck do you sound? What the fuck is wrong
with you? And when I started doing this, I was like, God,
this is so natural, and.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
This is that's interesting.
Speaker 4 (38:12):
What I grew up loving was stand up except I hated,
as I said, the idea of being a club. But
this was stand up in a room by myself, you know. Yeah.
So Kevin Conley just came to me and said, do
you want to do this? And I was like, I'm
not doing an Entourage podcast. But when we made it
victory and we said which you know, it sometimes would
(38:33):
annoy Kevin. But just like Entourage, I don't want to
make a show about Hollywood. I want to make a
show about friendships. And I wanted the podcast to be
the same thing. So we talk about everything. We talk
about what movie we saw, sporting events, you know, playing
golf together, and those guys which I cast, guys who
were like my friends in high school. We have that energy,
(38:53):
so but we don't. I mean, there's so little editing.
It's so we walk in. What are we talking about today? Okay,
go and we do an hour and it's over and
that's it, and it's just it's one of the most
natural things I've ever done.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
I love that as a season storyteller who now is
working in this podcast space and has done things in
all these different spaces, documentaries, rom com, We've got your
you know your of course everyone knows you from Entourage.
Is there a story or a project that you wish
(39:29):
had got more light that you really loved?
Speaker 4 (39:32):
Well, I have one right now, so we're going to
see what happens with it, if it lives. But I
did a pilot which I thought I could beat the system,
you know, make my own pilot, which unlike which I've
always told everybody, make a feature, make it as inexpensively
as you can do it, and if it's good, it's
going to get traction. Doesn't mean it's going to change
your life, doesn't mean anything. But I know that now.
(39:54):
But that being said, I went, you know what, I'm
sitting here doing this podcast. The pandemic was happening. I've
got Emmy nominees, Kevin Dylan and Kevin Connolly Emmy winners.
I think Charlie wanted Emmy, Charlie Sheen Emmy Winner for sure,
Martin Sheen. I've got these guys that I hanging around with.
Let's go make something where nobody gives us notes and
nobody does anything and we just go and do it.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
You said you were going to do this. I wanted
to watch it immediately, so I don't think you were
so crazy to go against industry.
Speaker 4 (40:20):
And well, the reason it's crazy is because with a feature,
you're going, here, go air it and see what happens,
give us a certain amount of money and whatever. A
With a pilot, you're going, hey, let's enter into a
multi year agreement. Next episode is going to cost somewhere
between four to six million dollars. But what I can
say is, and I really am Solfware. It is an
(40:41):
excellent pilot. Pound for pound, it is better than the
Ensurrage pilot. And we've had well whatever I mean, we
haven't sold it, and we've had great meetings with everybody,
and the response has been pretty great. But whatever it is,
whether it's the wrong demographic, whether it's this or not,
we haven't sold it yet. I've had incredibly big producers
(41:03):
see this and every big agent in town, go I
want to take this out. It's going and it hasn't sold.
And when I look back on my career, but I
went and made some eight minute short film and sold it.
And when I went and made at Beach and sold it,
and kissing a fool, I could have never imagined that
we'd have something this good.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
With this cast, this far along in your career.
Speaker 4 (41:22):
This far along, which wouldn't sell. But that being said,
I'm debating right now actually just making it a feature
and making it a ninety minute version of this and
going from there.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
So well, I think it speaks a little bit to
where the industry is right now and how tough things
are and how confusing things are after the onset of
streaming and everything that happened. You're listening to Curiosity Storyteller
Studio or from our guest Doug Ellen. When we get
back from these messages.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
You're listening to Ruckus Avenue Radio Avenue available now on
the freeing iHeart Radio app.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Welcome back to Curiosity Storyteller Studio. We're back in the
studio with Doug Ellet, the creator of Entourage. Can you
talk to me about your legacy and what you hope. People,
there's what everyone and the press and the people and
all the fans say they take away from the content
(42:26):
that you've created. What do you hope that they take away?
Speaker 4 (42:30):
You know, I'd like to live, so I don't like
to think about a lift. I would just like to live.
I have a new baby. I'd like to see her.
You know.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Oh, you don't worry. That's not I didn't mean in
a morbid sense. I just meant what I think.
Speaker 4 (42:44):
And one of the reasons I was willing to do
the podcast. Entrage was universally critically acclaimed show, nominated for
Emmys every year. And somehow, as we know, this culture
and I don't even want to say the culture, the
schmucks that ended up being the writers in this culture
for the last seven ten years wherever they came from
(43:07):
our elitist snobby you know, and somehow they show that
was as I said, you know, The New York Times
female reviewers said we were the smartest show on television
when we came out. The New York Times said we
were the best show on television in two thousand and
four drama or comedy. And then suddenly we were like
defending ourselves for some legacy of misogyny and racism and
(43:29):
garbage like that. So what I hope is that people
look at whatever I've done and see that it was
all done with the thoughts of writing good people who
care about each other, who may say stupid shit and
may do stupid shit, but are actually at the end
of the day, people with good intentions. And then I
(43:49):
made people laugh and entertain them.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
I love that. What advice would you give future storytellers?
Speaker 4 (43:56):
Write work every day because the time in this town
it goes so fast. And I have historically, even on Entourage,
I mean, we would have a writer's room and they
would just look at me like, why are you fucking
playing Nintendo? Why aren't you writing? And again, I believe,
(44:19):
like I believe in any athlete, any talent. There's some
people who have the ability to work all day and night.
There's some people who have raw talent pure talent, and
there's some people who have both. But it's important to
try to get habits and to live. The most successful
(44:40):
I've been is when I was in financial fear, when
i would wake up that I'm going to starve, ye
that I'm not going to be able to feed my
family By the way.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
My biggest wins came out of that single time.
Speaker 4 (44:51):
Mine as well. And I think this is a town
you really don't want to get comfortable. And weirdly enough,
since I believe I did write the definitive show a
out this town understanding how up and down it is,
I still have managed to let things happen to me
that I could have prevented with forcing myself to go,
you know, harder.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
So I think that's beautiful advice for everyone. We were
entering into the last segment of our show. It is
a rapid fire questions where we do kind of a
character analysis on the man that is Doug Ellen. So,
first things that come to mind when I say the
word home? What comes to mind?
Speaker 4 (45:30):
New York?
Speaker 2 (45:32):
What about heaven?
Speaker 4 (45:34):
Dogs everywhere?
Speaker 2 (45:36):
I love your love of dogs. What about when I
say the word hell writing? What food do you find
most comforting? Pizza because of New Yorker?
Speaker 4 (45:55):
Maybe maybe I love Italian food all Italian food?
Speaker 2 (45:59):
What sound makes you?
Speaker 4 (46:00):
What sound makes me smile? My babies laugh?
Speaker 2 (46:05):
Yeah? How do you define.
Speaker 4 (46:07):
Love, unwavering loyalty?
Speaker 2 (46:13):
How do you define success?
Speaker 4 (46:15):
Happiness?
Speaker 2 (46:16):
How do you define failure?
Speaker 4 (46:18):
Misery?
Speaker 2 (46:21):
Doug Ellen? Do you believe in magic?
Speaker 4 (46:24):
Do I believe in magic like card tricks or.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
What kind of whatever your definition of magic? I don't
second chances. Yeah, love at first sight, yep, without considering time,
ability or money an obstacle. If you could learn one
thing or do one thing that you're not doing right now,
what would it be?
Speaker 4 (46:45):
Focus?
Speaker 2 (46:49):
If you could create a story about or with anyone
in the world, who or what would it be?
Speaker 4 (46:56):
I don't know what the story would be, but John
Cleese and Albert Brooks, I love it.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
Let's see that one come to life. What word best
describes you as a story teller?
Speaker 4 (47:10):
So angry? How is a story teller? Fuck?
Speaker 2 (47:15):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (47:15):
That's a tough one. I don't know. Others have to
describe me. I don't know to describe myself as.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
I don't honest. I'm gonna say honest. What inspires or
drives you?
Speaker 4 (47:25):
Other people? Other people's hard work inspires me.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
And the last question, Doug Ellen, what is your favorite story?
Speaker 4 (47:35):
My favorite story?
Speaker 2 (47:36):
Yeah, first thing that comes to mind.
Speaker 4 (47:41):
That is all dogs go to Heaven.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
And dogs. That's amazing, Doug, thank you so much with
us that story. Del absolutely appreciate it. If you're enjoying
this conversation, make sure you check out our YouTube channel
and don't forget to hit subscribe
Speaker 1 (48:16):
The world's most listen to South Asian radio and podcast network.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.