Golf Talk Live - Season 13 Episode 19 | August 7th, 2025 - Golf Talk Live

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
The following broadcast is brought to you by the I
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(00:32):
the game's most in depth instruction magazine, including reviews on
the latest equipment, tips from top teaching professionals, all designed
to help you improve from tee to green. Welcome to
Golf Talk Live with your host Ted Oto Rico. Join
Ted each week as he speaks with some of the
best in golf. This week's special guest will join us

(00:52):
a bit later. But first up is another great discussion
on Coach's Corner, So let's introduce tonight's coaches Corner Panel.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Good evening, everybody, and welcome to Season thirteen of Golf
Talk Live. I'm your host Ed ohto Rico. Joining me
this week on the Coach's Corner Panel is my good
friend Jim Endicott. Also tonight on the show, I'm going
to be joined by my co host and travel expert
Robert Kaufman, alongside this evening's special travel guest Blake Froling,
he is the PGA and general manager of Gamble Sands

(01:26):
and a little bit later on the show and be
joined by my feature guest of the evening, Bobby Steiner,
the director of golf Instruction at Horseshoe Bay Resort in Texas.
So it's gonna be a great full pack show tonight,
so you want to make sure you stick around for that.
Let me just remind everybody if you want to watch
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(01:47):
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Speaker 3 (01:49):
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Speaker 2 (01:51):
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Speaker 3 (02:02):
And every week.

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(02:25):
as I mentioned, we're going to start things off with
coaches corners we always do here Thursday nights, and my
good friend Jim Endicott. He's currently the PGA Education Faculty
Member and Pjspecialist special excuse me, professional in both teaching
and coaching, former Golf Digest School general manager, and a
seven time PJ Award winner, including the twenty twenty two

(02:46):
North Florida PJ Section Patriot Award and two North Florida
PJ Youth Development Awards. And he's also a Golf Tips
Magazine Top twenty five instructor and contributor. So, Jim, welcome
to the show.

Speaker 4 (02:58):
Thank you, Ted, great to be here. I'm looking forward
to this show tonight.

Speaker 3 (03:02):
Yeah, I'm excited to have you as well.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
Always enjoy our conversations and now that I've hopefully untied
my tongue, we'll get into a good, good discussion. I'll
tell you it's a lot to read off every week,
so it gets to you sometimes, but we'll get it
nailed down. So what we're going to talk about tonight
here is we're going to talk about distance control. This
is something we really haven't covered. We're going to get
into a lot of different specific things, so I thought

(03:25):
this would be a good topic since it's just going
to be you and I tonight on the panel. So
distance control with irons particularly is crucial if you want
to become a good score or better player of the game.
Obviously it involves understanding how far each iron goes and
making adjustments based on the course conditions and obviously your
desired outcome. So some techniques we're going to cover is

(03:46):
going to be, you know, choking down in the club
as an example, maybe controlling swing speed and practicing with
maybe different swing links, and we'll talk about that and
how they can benefit and help you to dial in
on your numbers. And this is really what we're going
to try to do tonight, is to help golfers achieve
a better distance control of their iron. So let's talk
about the first one you sort of in this key

(04:09):
techniques if you will, for distance control, and we're going
to talk about choking down.

Speaker 3 (04:12):
We see a lot of players do that.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
First off, let's talk about what we're actually meaning by
choking down on the club a little bit. And you know,
I'm often reminded before I get you to respond to that,
I'm often reminded of a number of great particularly wedge players.
Tom Kite comes to mind. He talked about this in
a video years ago, how he would choke down and
it would help him with his distance control. And he

(04:36):
was one of the earlier players that played with four
wedges in his bag. So this was the thing. So
what are the benefits? And maybe you're not somebody that
really subscribes to that. I want to get your thoughts
in general, But how do you feel about choking down
in the club. Is it something that that is going
to help It's certainly one aspect of helping control club distance.

Speaker 4 (04:55):
Yes, absolutely. And to understand choking down on the clubs,
let's understand what that means. I've got a club here,
and if I take my grip and the hands are
all the way up here towards the top, let me
see if I can demonstrate that here I've got my
grip here this way, choking down on. It would be

(05:16):
to lower the hands on the golf club so that
some of the butt into that club is going to
stick out beyond their hands. And for me, I have
found that for about every half inch to an inch
I choke down on the club, it'll adjust the distance

(05:36):
of that golf club buy approximately five yards. And so
you can take it down half an inch five yards,
take it down an inch could be seven to eight,
maybe as much as ten yards. And just changing that
and what happens when you do, in fact choke down
on the golf club, it needs to change your posture.

(06:00):
Usture will bend over just a little bit more this way,
and that is going to accommodate that shorter golf club
for you. And so there is one way that we
can adjust the distance. The other way we can adjust
that distance in terms of choking down, we can go
down in club or up and club. If I go

(06:23):
up and club and choke down, that would be a
way to put us in between clubs. Let's say you
are at a yardage that is between say your six
iron and your seven iron, I could take and if
there's a ten yard gap between there, I could take
my six iron and I could reach down on it

(06:44):
and by about a half an inch, and that in
turn would give me something in between that six and
seven iron distance, not changing what I do with the
golf swing. Go ahead and execute the golf swing in
the same man that I normally do. I just simply
have reached down on the golf club to change that distance.

(07:08):
The other thing that it will do for you is
it will actually flight the golf ball a little bit
lower because the size of the arc is now going
to be a little bit smaller. The overall radius or
diameter of that circle becomes a little bit smaller, and
that in turn lowers the flight. Can that help us

(07:29):
with our distance control as well? Yes, certainly within the
context of playing in the wind, where I needed to
flight it underneath it, or I need to flight it
underneath it so it lands and lets it release on out.
So that changing the link of the golf club by
choking down does a number of things in terms of

(07:50):
the adjustment of the distance.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
And some great points. I want to go back to
something that you said. I think it is important to
really emphasize because you talked about really not changing anything
with the swing itself. At this point, we're going to
get into some other issues here in a moment. But
so if I understand, you correct, and I just want
to make sure that the listeners a pick up on
this as well. Is even though you might be choking
half an inch or an inch down, you're still swinging

(08:16):
the same distance with that club, Meaning if you're taking
it a full swing, it's still going to be a
full swing. It's just you're now choked down in the
club a little bit, which is going to affect the
ball flight a little bit.

Speaker 3 (08:27):
It's going to lower it a little.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
Bit, and then obviously the distance is going to be
a little bit less as well. So I just want
to make sure that people understand that. So you're not
talking about changing anything else at this point with the swing.
We're just simply choking down the club to shorten that
arc a little bit and give us a shorter distance
and maybe even a little bit of a lower ball flight.

Speaker 3 (08:43):
Is I understanding you correct?

Speaker 4 (08:45):
Exactly? If you think about, let's take a particular golf
club I have that let's say is thirty six inches
in length, and I choke down on it an inch.
Now that golf club effectively is only thirty five inches.
Thus the the circle that it's working on becomes a
little bit more compact, and in doing that, the height

(09:07):
of the arc is a little bit less. Thus the
flight of the golf ball would come down a little
bit as well.

Speaker 3 (09:14):
Yeah, I just I wanted to clarify that.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
I just want to make sure that people understood that
component because I don't want them to think I'm choking down.
It means I've got to adjust my swing in some
other way, and that's not what we're talking about here
in this particular aspect. Now, what we are going to
talk about swing speed control is where we might adjust
our swing speed. Nicholas talked about, you know, very famously
in Golf My Way in his video where he would

(09:38):
use different clubs, but he would use the saying swing
for each club, but there were moments when he would
have to obviously adjust his swing speed. So talk about
that a little bit as well. And again, this is
where we're getting into something that's a little bit different.
We're not talking about choking down per se. We're talking
about actually adjusting the swing speed. So maybe you could
touch on that a little bit.

Speaker 4 (09:57):
Yes, you know, the size of the arc can change
by choking down, but I can leave the arc the
same size, and I can swing it at a slower
rate of speed. And what happens effectively, then is when
I swing at a slower rate of speed, the ball
actually leaves the club at a slower rate of speed

(10:19):
and flies through the air at a slower rate of speed.
I like to adjust in that manner because now when
the ball lands on the green, it lands, and it
lands softly, and it doesn't release out as much. It
will also at a slower rate of speed, it doesn't
impart as much backspin on the golf ball. Thus the

(10:41):
ball doesn't go up as much. Again, slower rate of speed,
choking down on it, a smaller arc all tend to
make the golf ball go a little bit lower. The
slower rate of speed makes the ball speed less, and
thus the flight distance is less. Wall speed being how

(11:05):
fast does the golf ball come off of the club
face when it strikes the golf club.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
So give us an example of where you might use
this scenario. So if you were playing on the golf course,
why would you want. I mean, you mentioned some results
that are going to happen on the other end of it.
But give us maybe an example scenario of where you
would want to do this, where you would want to
implement and why you would want to do that.

Speaker 4 (11:28):
Well, I might want to swing at a slower rate
of speed if I were going to be going into
the wind, okay, And the reason I say that is
the slower rate of speed. As I said earlier, there's
a slower backspin rate. And if I'm going into the wind,
the slower backspining rate avoids the climbing of the golf ball.

(11:51):
If I were to take and choke down on it
and swing at a higher rate of speed or a
full rate of speed, I should say that parts a
little faster of revolutions permitted on that backspin, and that
gives it a chance to do this sort of a
thing in the air. Now, I like the idea of
changing distance by choking down. If I am flighting the

(12:14):
golf ball where the wind is left to right or
right to left, I want a very compact and tight
revolution of that golf call so that the wind going
these two different directions doesn't affect the flight of the
golf ball direction. Whereas if I give it that high
rate of speed by swinging fast with a choked down

(12:37):
golf club. Now it has a chance if I'm going
into the wind to do this more and to climb
up into the air, and it may balloon and end
upth shorter than I wanted it to be. So I
like the slower rate of speed by the slower rate
of speed of the golf swing causing a slower rate
of speed of the backs on the golf ball.

Speaker 3 (13:01):
Got you makes makes perfect sense.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
The other thing that I wanted to get you to
talk about a little bit too, But I'm going to
ask you this one first, and I'm going to come
back because I got to follow up question really with
all three. The other one that we want to talk
about for controlling distance is the actual swing length. You know,
we've often heard about this, you know, halfway back, halfway through,
you know, three quarters back through, you know this sort

(13:28):
of thing. You know, Dave Pel's was very famous about
talking about that. And there's a couple of different variables
that I want to address here, and again I'm not
going to suggest that one is any better than the other.
Some people have, you know, sort of adopted the philosophy.
However far you're taking it back, that's how far you
should take it. In the follow through others feel, you know,

(13:50):
if you're going halfway back, you should still finish your
follow through to complete swings. So I want to get
your thoughts on that as well. But how do we
how do you best I guess when your tea your students,
how do you best incorporate when they've got to make
adjustments to the length of their swing?

Speaker 3 (14:04):
Now, how they go about doing that?

Speaker 5 (14:07):
Well?

Speaker 4 (14:07):
I like to talk about in executing a golf shot,
there's methods in which we address the golf ball that
give us the ability to change what the flight of
the golf ball is. And I go to a lot
of the discussion of things that we do in short
game that help us with this. For example, we can

(14:27):
hit our golf ball with a shot that is my
normal stock loft on the full swing. Good lie, there's
our full swing stock shot. I could then play a
shot where I narrow my stance slightly, which changes a
little bit of my rotation, which changes a little bit
of the length of the golf swing. And this, in

(14:50):
essence is what I would call in the short game
a pitch shot. Now I can pitch the golf ball
with a six or seven iron, the ball is just
not going to go as far. Because of the limited stance,
there's a limited amount of body rotation, and it limits
my golf swing. Without me creating a change in that swing,

(15:13):
the stance does it for me. Now, in order to
adjust that flight in the size of the swing, I
would be working towards that idea of pitching. If I'm
pitching it around the green, I have a high lofty club.
I change the link of the back swing, and I

(15:35):
change the link of the through swing. Now, if I do,
in fact change the link, let's call it halfway back
and halfway through. That's going to produce a flight that's
shorter but also lower. Again, when the size of the
arc gets smaller. When the arc is lower in the

(15:56):
back swing and through swing, the flight's lower. Now, if
I want to hit a shot that shorter but still
has trajectory, now I might be one that takes it
halfway back, but I would finish up and over my
shoulders with a more full follow through. So the trajectory

(16:18):
of the golf shot is going to be dictate, is
going to dictate the type of the golf swing in
terms of size. So small back in through lower flight,
small back, full through, higher flight, longer back finish, lower
even lower flight, so it changes the trajectory while you're

(16:42):
trying to adjust the distance.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
So it gives you a lot of variables here really
depending on the shot needed. And this is where I think,
you know, we talk about this so much on the
show about practicing, because you know, you can't just quote
on the golf course and just try to implement these
things if you've never really word on them, because again,
you don't know how the ball is going to react
if you haven't really practiced it. So you know, anything

(17:05):
that we talk about in the program, I always try
to urge people to get out there and experiment a
little bit practice with you know, practice taking it halfway
back and halfway through and see what happens. Then take
it halfway back and then finish, as you say, a
full swing or more fuller finish if you will, and
see how the ball reacts to that. And then convers
as you just touched on, there is maybe a little

(17:26):
bit more of a backswing and a shorter follow through,
and see how that affects the ball flight and conditions
as well. And I think when you do that, it
gives you a little bit bigger repertoire to work with,
so that again, depending on the snare, whether it's maybe
win in your face or maybe win coming from either
left or right or even behind, you can dictate how

(17:47):
you're going to handle that shot. And you know a
lot of people don't think of these things. And this
brings me to what I wanted to ask you. Now
that we've had a few of them under our belt, here,
can we adapt more than one of these? Now there's
others that we're going to talk about, but for instance,
can we choke down and adjust the swing speed? Or

(18:07):
can we choke down and adjust the length? Or can
we do maybe all three that we've discussed? You know,
is there opportunities to do that? Or are we getting
it too confusing? And the reason I asked that is
because somebody might get out there and say, well, you know,
I need to choke down, but at the same time,
I don't really need a full swing. So can I adjust,
you know, accordingly to some of the other topics we cover,
So give us your thoughts here and how would be

(18:29):
the best way to handle that?

Speaker 4 (18:31):
And before I get to that, I want to back
up just a moment. When I'm saying the size of
the golf swing. The primary change in that distance has
to do with the arm action. Right body rotation is
very much the same, whether it's a halfway back or
halfway through, halfway back all the way through, that's the
size of the arm swing. But to take and combine

(18:54):
or mold these together one hundred percent, there's definitely those needs.
As we get better and better, and by all means,
as you were saying, are we making it too complex?
We have to be sure as a player that we
are checking our skill set. Does our skill set fit

(19:15):
this what I'm trying to do. Is it better for
me to simply change my tool to change the distance
my golf club my golf ball goes. And at a
certain skill level, that is, by all means, the only
way I would go about it. I would change from
a seven iron and reach down on it an inch

(19:38):
and make my normal full swing. But as my skill
level gets better and I have better control of the
club head, now I get into the idea of changing
the distance of the golf shot or the golf swing,
and the size of that golf swing and the pace
of it. And I think I would say, in an order,

(20:01):
a hierarchy is the newer player, the lesser skilled player
simply changed the tool choked down on it full swing.
As we get better, we can change choke down and
change size of swing. And the last one would be

(20:24):
changing the pace of the swing. I think that requires
the most skill and most control. And when I say understanding,
the club head is understanding this part here and how
it works and how you are able to swing it.
And that takes a lot of practice. As you said,

(20:47):
and you know you mentioned Tom Kite. I recall watching
a video of him and he was hitting wedges and
working on his distance control, and he had taken little
handtel They weren't much more than say, six inches by
six inches, and he put him out at various distance
about ten yards apart, and he would put his caddy

(21:10):
at one of them. He said, okay, we're going to
hit sixty yard wedges year, And so his caddy would
stand by the towel and Tom would hit his shot,
and as soon as he hit it, he would describe
the distance he would hit that shot. He'd say, well,
that one's sixty one, yeah, and the caddy would recognize
and say, yep, you're right. And he hit the next

(21:32):
one and that would be fifty nine, and so he
had done it enough, and he'd done the practice enough
in the various ways he wanted to change the distance,
and he obviously was really good with his wedges, and
he did all of the above of what we've described.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah, he and I mentioned him for a specific reason
because we might have been watching the same video. I mean,
he's done a few of them over the years, especially
earlier in his career. But you know, I always find
it interesting when you listen to players and how they
talk about why they do certain things and how it
affects the ball flight and how it affects us. And again,

(22:11):
for our average high handicapper, some of these things maybe
they're not going to incorporate as you suggest right away
until they get to be a little bit more proficient player.
Maybe they're going to start, as you said, with just
choking down or changing the you know, the club, using
a different club or something, but taking the same swing.
So there's a lot of variables that can come into
this play. And again it depends on your skill level

(22:32):
how you're going to adapt to these. Another one I
want to talk about is again this can assist in
helping as well, and that is ball position. You know,
typically we have as you know, maybe a ball position
that we're using for our normal ball flights and our
normal shots. But when we're getting into you know, some

(22:54):
of these shots where we need to control distance, ball
position comes into effects. So talk about that a little
bit as well. Explain how that plays a role in
distance control.

Speaker 4 (23:03):
Yes, And I think when we get into ball position,
what we're really getting into is the adjustment of the
loft of the golf club, and particularly with a wedge,
is as I move the ball further forward in my stands.
And I like to use an example of establishing the

(23:25):
ball position based on when I aim my golf club.
I'm going to pull one up here. When I aim
my golf club with the correct loft, such as I
have here, I'm holding a seven iron here. If I
aim that golf club with the correct loft, the way
the shaft of the club comes out of that golf
club is indicative of how that golf club will perform. Right,

(23:52):
And what I mean by that is when I put
down a wedge, the shaft of the golf club has
a little more lean there. I always want a reference
of where the shaft of the club or the butt
end of the club points relative to the body, and
that reference is always the same. For me, The reference

(24:13):
of where this point's on my body is about an
inch towards my lead side of the center of my body,
and I use it there for all of my golf clubs. Now,
if I were to take and make this seven iron
have additional loft, you can see how that shaft of

(24:36):
the golf club now is leaning towards my as a
right handed golfer, towards my right side or away from
the target. I would adjust myself to stand where this
is pointed, and you can see when I stand at
that where that's pointed, the ball would be further forward

(24:58):
in my stands. So the positioning of the ball between
our feet dictates the loft I'm going to present with
the golf club. So if I did that the other way,
and I said I wanted less loft, now you can
see that's pointed over in this area. Therefore, that golf
ball would be further back in my stands, and that

(25:19):
would change the loft and make it lower. So if
I want to change the distance by shortening the distance,
I would go towards the additional loft, which in turn,
has put the ball further forward, right, And if I
wanted to get a little more out of that seven iron,

(25:40):
then what it is I want to try to push
it towards the length of my six iron. I may
take some loft away from it still standing where this
point's in my one inch left of center. For me
as the right handed golfer, made my seven iron more
loft like a six iron, and thus it would go
a bit further. So we can adjust the ball position.

(26:03):
That can change shortening the distance, and we can change
that ball position to increase the distance.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
What's a common problem that you see with players and
ball position? And retrospect to what you just talked about,
because what I often see, and I mean you did
a great job in describing that, where I'll see them
moving their positions so far, like, for instance, moving the
ball back, let's say, or moving the club in such
a way that the ball is technically further back. I

(26:35):
see them moving it so much, and I think they
misunderstand that, and I think the way you described it
is perfect.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
But how do you avoid that?

Speaker 2 (26:44):
Because that's an issue that comes up a lot too,
where I see people moving that ball so far back,
thinking Okay, I need to I'm gonna hit lower and
I'm going to get more. You know, I'm going to
turn my seven into six iron or you know, six
iron into five iron, or whatever the case may be.
And ultimately what they ended up doing is now, well
they're not really doing it correctly and they're coming in
and hitting in so steep.

Speaker 3 (27:03):
So how do they prevent that?

Speaker 4 (27:06):
Well, I think it comes back to if they do
the adjustment based on the golf club, and if I'm
always pointing this at my reference on me and again
for myself, it's about one inch to the left of center.
A brand new golfer, I would start them where that's

(27:26):
at their middle and somebody who needed to turn through
the golf shot it might be a little bit further
forward than mine. And so if we put our golf
club down and I wanted to move the ball back
in my stands, and I said, I'm going to take
a little loft away to do that. Now, when I

(27:46):
stand to that golf club there, that kind of looks good.
But if I said I'm going to put it way
way way way way back, now, all of a sudden
that golf club doesn't look like it's what I need
it to do. And so the issue is they get
to this sort of a thing by addressing themselves to

(28:09):
the ball. And what I prefer is to aim the
club with the loft I want to hit the ball with,
and then stand myself to the golf club, because nobody
is going to set that golf club down and go
like this, right, that just doesn't make sense. But they

(28:30):
may do it like that, and that would put it
pretty far back in their stands, right, And I don't
know that I would loft to seven iron more than
that right there as anyway, So by addressing and I
like to aim the golf club and then I stand
to the golf club, that positions me correctly to the ball.

(28:51):
And people get in trouble when they address the golf ball. Well,
I've got to put the ball forward in my stands
and the next thing, you know, their drivers out past
their their lead foot closer to the target than their
lead foot. But if they address the club and they
look at that golf club and then stand to the club,

(29:13):
they're not likely to put it way out of position.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
Yeah, And that's why I want you to just touch
on that a little bit, because I know that exactly
the explanation you just gave is exactly what a lot
of amateur golfers do. Is they set up to the
ball and not to the golf club. And you know,
I wanted you to to sort of make that distinction
so that people have a better understanding of that consistency
or consistent swing path as well. And it sounds very simple,

(29:39):
but especially through the impact zone is obviously another point
that's essential for accuracy and distance. And you know, it
sounds very simple, you know, being consistent through impact. But again,
you know, we know how how this game works, and
you know, probably eighty ninety percent of the people still
struggle with with what we're talking about, So talk about

(30:02):
that as well. How can we address that and how
does that play a role in distance control?

Speaker 4 (30:08):
Well, we need to apply the golf club with the
intended relationship of the face relative to the path and
going back to our normal stock shot, and I suppose
if we were a robot, that would mean that the
club face this portion here would be moving and looking

(30:31):
in exactly the same direction and in golf lingo, that
would be on a path that I'm going to turn
here to the side is from around me over here
to around me over here, And in golf language, we
would call that from the inside to the inside, and

(30:52):
there would be a short time frame where that club
face is looking at the target and the club is
moved moving at the target. Let's call that ideal robotic. Now,
if I get it coming from the inside and the
club face were open to that one, my ball would

(31:16):
fly to the right, But that would cause additional loft
to the golf club, and the additional loft to the
golf club sends ball higher, which in turn sends it shorter.
In that scenario, it's higher shorter to the right. Now,
if I had it moving from outside to inside, or

(31:41):
as a right hand a golfer to the left, I
could still apply it with a club face open to
that path right and that would have the club moving downward.
That path would be moving downward, and with additional loft,
the ball would go higher. Now that's a nicer pair

(32:03):
because that ball is going to start over here and
bend back to the target. That one works pretty good.
But the one that's from the end to out it's
added loft as well. But that one's starting right in
going further right. So getting the right combination of the

(32:24):
face relative to the path is critical. A nice pair
swing it to the left as a right hand a
golfer with added loft all starts left curves to the right.
If I were swinging to the right and I started
to close the face to that path, now that thing's

(32:45):
going to do this and when I'm closing the face,
that's taking loft away from it, which sends the ball further.
So another way to change our distance beyond what we've
described is just as you said there changed the path,
but more importantly changed the relationship of the face relative

(33:11):
to that path. Add distance. Perhaps balls a little further back,
which in turn causes us to swing more from the inside,
but from the inside with the face closing, added distance,
swinging to the left with perhaps a ball more forward

(33:33):
with the face now opening higher and shorter. Another way
to change that distance, going back to what I was
saying earlier of using the short game setup to dictate
what the ball's going to do. If I moved the

(33:54):
ball slightly forward and I added some loft, that may
turn have me hitting similar to the splash shot in
the bunker, a good lie in the bunker, or perhaps
what some people call a flop shot. I'm not a
fan of that label because that's to me, it implies failure.

(34:16):
So I continue to call it a splash shot. So
added loft, change that path higher, softer, maybe more spin,
put it back in your stance more like chipping, let
that face, do that sort of a thing lower, and
it would get more distance as a result of it.
All of these things are dictated though that we have

(34:38):
to remember by where the ball is sitting, what's the lie,
what does it allow me to do? And that's that's
a whole other toxic.

Speaker 3 (34:48):
A whole number conversation.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
Yeah, I mean, I just want people to get a
general idea when we have these discussions. I mean, obviously
we're gonna and trust me, throughout the year, we're going
to get into more uneven lies and things and how
to handle those types scenarios because again, very few golfers
ever get the perfect lie, except for on the driving range.
So you know, we want to address those as well,

(35:10):
and we may throw some of these topics that we're
talking about earlier into some of those more, you know,
and again this is going to be really for more
not so much I don't want to say serious player,
but the more accomplished players that really need to understand it,
because if you're not hitting the ball very well and
that that kind of stuff, it really isn't for you
at that point because you need to be a little

(35:31):
bit more consistent. I mean, obviously you can be faced
with it, but there's some things that you need to
work on before we address that with you. But there's
definitely a lot of our better, more seasoned players out
there that might could use some help with uneven lies
and things like that. So we're definitely going to get
into that in future discussions. And then the last one
is we just get ready to sort of wrap up here,
and that is as we've talked about earlier, is practice

(35:53):
and obviously visualization is something important and I'm a firm
believer depending on where you're If you're at home, if
you've got the up to have a full length mirror,
you know to look at things and see and you know,
look at different positions. If you're practicing on the range,
maybe you have the added benefit of a launch monitor.
Have access to a launch monitor with your local pro

(36:14):
that you're working with or simulator can also help do
that to help feel the distances. What do you think
about that. And again, this is something we've talked about before.
We've touched on some things that can help with control,
but the main reason really we want to be able
to have that is because you're going to be faced
with situations where you're in between clubs or it doesn't

(36:34):
require a full shot for whatever reason. So what are
your thoughts here, How do we go about practicing it?
And do you agree with some of the things I
just said, is you know, using a mirror, using a
launch monitor, and that because we need to know how
far we're hitting each club in order to be able
to and under different circumstances.

Speaker 4 (36:51):
Your thoughts, absolutely, all of those things are are beneficial.
In fact, I believe that this arena of practice, launch
monitors have had the greatest influence in the success of players.
I have heard of people simply buying a launch monitor

(37:12):
so that they could determine the distance their golf club
go and the spin rate that they put on the
golf ball. Solely in one hundred percent, that's all they
used it for. They didn't use it for face path
any of those things. It was purely for distance control.
And I'll go back in time when we were younger

(37:33):
and there were not launch monitors. The idea of what
I meant to with Tom Kaite have targets out there
to hit two and see that you can hit to them.
I used to to determine my yardages. I would go
on the golf course very early in the morning, and
I would take ten golf balls and I put a

(37:53):
number on them with a sharpie, one through ten, and
I would hit that ball. I would stand at the
one hundred and fifty yard marker and I'd hit that ball,
and I'd make a note on my pad that one
was an eight on a scale of one to ten.
And then I'd hit number two and that was a three.
And I hit number three and that was a nine.

(38:14):
And then when I went up on the green, I
found those numbered golf balls and I saw where they
were in relation to the middle of the green. And
that's how I learned and determine my distance there. So
I think it's extremely important to work on those distances.
I love to take students out to the range and

(38:38):
let's say we're going to the practice screen and setting
them at ten yard increments and have them hits five
shots and let them see that they are doing it. Okay,
here's how we're going to do it. We are at
fifty yards and your skill set and strength a halfway back,
halfway through fifty eight degree wedge should go that distance.

(39:02):
Let's hit five shots from here and see how we're doing.
And I might hold if you have someone to practice with,
have them take alignment sticks and hold them out there
and put them at the level you want the backswing
and through swing to go, and then you have to
swing under those and then maybe they take it a
little bit further and that sort of thing. So any

(39:24):
kind of different things. If you can have a launch monitor,
wonderful thing. And there are launch monitors out there that
you can purchase for a couple hundred dollars that can
give you distance, that can give you spin, and if
that's all you need, goodness, you can do a lot
of good work with very inexpensive launch monitors to learn

(39:47):
that distance.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
Yeah, there's a lot of And that's a great point.
I was going to mention that as well. I actually
have one. But there's a lot of mobile launch monitors now.
They're very very effective. Some of them been out in
the market for a while, Newer ones coming out in
that and I mean, you know, I strongly encourage people. Again,
I'm not asking to break the bank or anything. But

(40:10):
you know, if you if you practice with a buddy,
you know, maybe you guys can chip in. And if
you know, if you don't want to spend a lot
of money, you can chip in together, if you practice
a lot together and and save some of the costs
and say, hey, we go up to the range all
the time together. Anyways, let's chip in for a you know,
one of these mobile launch monitors if you don't want
to spend too much money. But nowadays, the technology, I mean,

(40:30):
it's so you know, it's so much more effective than
it was.

Speaker 3 (40:34):
I mean I did similar to you.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
I had to, you know, shag a lot of my
balls with my dad and we'd get out there and
you have the shag bag, and of course I was
the one shagg and he was the one hitting. But
until I got enough that I could hit it with
any consistency and and uh so his was a little
easier to shag. But but yeah, you know, you had
to do whatever you did at that time. But now
now they have you know, all kinds of technology out there.

Speaker 3 (40:57):
But uh but yeah, great, great conversation. And thank you
for bringing some of these points out. If you want to.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
Give the audience an opportunity to find out if they
want to reach out to you, if they've got questions
and and uh or actually you know, what you might
want to do is give them an opportunity to reach
out if because you've been providing some videos, some great
videos for our premium members at Golf tipsmag dot com,
both in the website and also on our YouTube channel. Uh,
if they've got some tip ideas that they want you

(41:29):
to cover, maybe you can give them some information how
they can best contact you and either work with you
and and maybe give you some tip suggestions as well.

Speaker 4 (41:37):
Yes, I would love any suggestions. I'm always racking my
brain for new ideas for your your different opportunities here.
So yes, if you have any ideas thoughts of what
you might want to see, I can be reached at
Jay Indicott so the first initial of my first name

(41:58):
followed by my last name at pg A HQ dot com.
And I'd love to hear from anybody with ideas, thoughts,
questions that I might be able to answer elaborate on
what we talked about today. As always, Ted, it's a
joy to be on the show with you, and I
appreciate the opportunity well.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
I love having you on the show. I love having
you contributing to Golf Tips as well. I appreciate all
that you've done since coming on board a few years ago,
and I know we'll continue to do some great work.
And for those of you want to, you know, get
some good tips on distance control, you can watch the
earlier segment that we just finished that we're just wrapping

(42:39):
up a little bit later on. I'll tell you how
you can do that at the end of the show,
how you can go and get that and here's some
great advice from one of the best in the business.
But on that note, Jim, thank you very much. As always,
we're going to take a quick commercial break. We'll come back.
We're going to initiate our travels segment. My good friend
Robert Kaufman is going to be joining me as my
special travel guest and host as well.

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Speaker 2 (43:28):
Welcome back, everybody, and very very excited to initiate our
travel segment tonight, and I'm super.

Speaker 3 (43:34):
Excited to have a couple of great guests.

Speaker 2 (43:36):
Of course, my good friend Robert Kaffin, co host and
travel expert, is going to be coming back and speaking
with our special feature travel guest tonight, and.

Speaker 3 (43:44):
Let me tell you a little bit about both. Of course.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
Robert is an award winning photographer, golf and travel writer,
golf media consultant. He's worked with a number of great
publications such as Trune, goolf and Travel Magazine, PGA Magazine,
and Golf Tips Magazine, along with the host of others.
If you want to see more of his great work,
he can visit his website Pitcherparfect dot com. Also tonight,
our special travel guest is Blake Frolling. He is the

(44:07):
PJA and General manager at Gamble Sands. He began his
career back in golf when he was just a young
lad of about sixteen, picking up range balls in his
earlier days, and after attending the Golf Academy of America
back in two thousand and nine, he steadily advanced through
the associate professional roles across the Pacific Northwest before heading

(44:30):
south to San Diego and then Orange County. He served
as the director of Sales and Marketing and revenue manager
at Mark Beach Golf Links, sharpening his expertise in hospitality,
branding and revenue strategy. He now leads as general manager
at Gamble Sands, where his background and revenue management and
marketing aligned perfectly with the resorts growth ambitions. So please

(44:53):
welcome Blake Frolling, and of course Robert is always welcome back,
my friend.

Speaker 7 (44:58):
Thank you, Ted. That's a great ent.

Speaker 5 (45:01):
From there.

Speaker 3 (45:01):
But yeah, we'll just end. We'll just end the segment
right now.

Speaker 7 (45:06):
That's all our audience needs to know just about it.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
So what I'm gonna do is, uh, for those of
you that have tuned in for for a while, you
know kind of how this segment works. As I turn
it over to my good friend and he's gonna speak
with our travel guest, and then he'll prompt me when
he's ready for me to to come back. And I'm
going to stick around just listen to the conversation, of course.
Uh but Robert, I'm gonna turn the mic over to
you and and go ahead and Blake again, welcome to
the show.

Speaker 7 (45:30):
Thank you, Thank you, Ted Blake. Great to see you.
Thanks for your time for coming on here. I'm I
was excited to uh to get you here because you know,
I had a chance to visit up there last year
and uh, I was blown away. I wasn't sure where
I was going up there for a while. All of
a sudden, boom, it just hits you right in the face.

(45:53):
And uhay, I can't wait to get back now that
you have the new course open. But but first, what
I want you to do is like just give us
a sense of where you're located, because now now that
I've had a chance to visit, you know, like in
the I've kind of learned in the spirit of other
remote golf destinations like band and Dune, Sand Valley stream Song,

(46:15):
you know, with the opening of your new course, Gamble
Sands is developing into one of the most go to
destinations and putting Central Washington on the map.

Speaker 8 (46:27):
Yeah, that's right, you call it Central Washington. So yeah,
we're in the we're in the middle here, We're on
this side of the mountains, so we we get the
desert desert side of things. So most folks come here
thinking the Pacific Northwest and trees and rain and couldn't
be farther from where we're at here if you didn't
know any better. But yeah, about four hours east of Seattle,

(46:49):
in two and a half hours west of Spokane. So nothing,
nothing too crazy, and getting here's part of the adventure.

Speaker 7 (46:57):
So we exactly yeah. Yeah, So give us a brief
history on really how these courses came about. You've been around,
I know Gamble Sands came on the same a little
over a decade ago, you know, but before that, it
was all apple orchards and cornfields.

Speaker 8 (47:17):
So yeah, I mean there was just sagebrush and sand
up here. And who would have thought that sand is
good for golf. But they had a different site plan
early on in the family who owns this and resorts
kind of plans and this is I don't know, how

(47:37):
you could see this place any different than what it
is as a golf resort. So it's amazing to think
that there's places like this that still exists in the
world that people don't know about until ten years ago.
But it's beautiful up here. I'm actually glad that you've
been up here and I've seen it, because pictures don't
do it justice. So it's yeah.

Speaker 7 (48:00):
Now you realize how remote you are when you get
up there, because, like I said, it took me. I
was staying at another area a couple hours away and
I just kept, like everybody, you keep driving and driving
and you're thinking, for is this place?

Speaker 8 (48:15):
Yeah, I remember when I came here and interviewed, and
that was what I was thinking too. Check I'm refreshing
the GPS, thinking that I'm in the wrong spot. But
that's part of this and I think it's interesting over
the last ten twenty years that that's become almost a
good thing, is kind of disconnecting from the world. And
you know, when our internet goes out here, it's not
that big a deal because people are disconnected anyway. They

(48:38):
want to get away, they want to feel like there
on vacation.

Speaker 7 (48:43):
Yeah, yeah, right, exactly. So the story there, I mean,
typically it some of these other course destinations that I
mentioned previously, they bring in like a handful of course
architects to you know, provide a variety of different design styles.

(49:05):
But here you you used one architect, David McLay Kidd
to do both golf courses now with the new one
Scarecrow Gamble Sands and the fourteen hole. I want to
get to in a while. But how did that all evolve?
I mean, why one architect?

Speaker 8 (49:27):
Yeah, I mean I think it all boils down to trust.
You know, the family has been developing land for one
hundred years and have had multiple different partners and different things,
and I think at the end of the day, you know,
knowing that David could produce something good. And I think

(49:47):
also David originally was a little bit reluctant, but I
think from what I can tell over the years, he's
always looking to kind of challenge himself. And so I
think having him take a crack at this routing again,
and you know, I know he'd made one back in
twenty twelve or something of this piece of land, and
you know, using what he's learned since then and making

(50:09):
tweaks to that routing. But at the end of the day,
it came down to trust. I think I think it
was pretty low risk in my opinion. Right, Like he
knows the family, he knows the soil, he knows the topography,
he had already made a routing the quicksands is good,
the team knows each other. All of those things to

(50:31):
me culminated in kind of a low risk project. And
you know, I don't know if that's the right kind
of term or idea, but it was a I mean
it would have been you would have to try to
screw this up, I think, to not have a view
as good as it is.

Speaker 7 (50:49):
Well, I definitely had the portfolio to you know, support
his use there of the design.

Speaker 5 (50:57):
So no.

Speaker 7 (51:00):
Him at there on who you brought in. He's one
of the best out there.

Speaker 8 (51:03):
Yeah, I think an interesting piece of that that that
was important to the whole thing is our family who
owns this as as mentioned, does orchards and all those things,
and has equipment and irrigation things, and so you know,
on our side we did all this all that internally.
We did the irrigation and the dirt work, and we
had the d eight dozers and you know, they brought

(51:26):
in a couple of specialty pieces of equipment for bunkering.
But that's all stuff that normally they have to facilitate.
They have to work with the rental companies and get
the people and the people to push the dirt. In
this case, they could kind of say, hey, this is
what we're looking to do, and our project manager, Tory,
you know, just makes it happen. So it's wild to watch.

Speaker 7 (51:47):
Right, So no, no, no question, you got the complete package.
So let's get into the golf courses. I mean you've
got three now, Scarecrow, there's the brand new one on
the block and it just opened. Like I said earlier,
you know, Gamble Sands has been around for about ten
years now, I believe, yep. And you've got the fourteen

(52:07):
hole Quicksands fourteen hole Part three course. So I mean,
is it fair to say they're all in the style
of links courses? Is that what the what the goal
was up there?

Speaker 4 (52:22):
Yeah?

Speaker 8 (52:23):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean the soil lends itself to that,
just being so firm and fast, and I think the
part that was a little unexpected is how firm and
fast it could get being in this climate. With rescue,
and I think we've surprised everybody, and the fairways could
be the best on the planet. I mean they're just

(52:44):
so good and so firm and so throughout the whole
property that maintains its validity. And it's been you know,
over the time of building, like the first course, not
being exactly known what that turf would do and feel
like and play like the as it grew. You know,

(53:04):
they built a putting course after that, so you know
they were able to change the design and the build
of some of these knowing the grassing and the rolling
in the hills and what we can and can't mow.
That's also another piece that I think a lot of
people don't understand that goes into it is what you know,
a triplex mowork can mow and what it can't, and
what a walk mower can mow and what it can't.

(53:26):
And so you know, David's seems great at that and
I know David coming from a superintendent's family has helped
his design style. But that's all part of the process.
But yeah, it's all links and it's a blast. I mean,
you played Gammel Sands, so you know that big hillsides,
big rolling hills, big bounces, long t shots that's in

(53:48):
everything here, and quicksands is kind of the X factor
there a little bit because it's shorter holes, right. So
I think the beauty of quicksands is that you can
you can have somebody that is just learning how to play,
and then you can have a PGA tour player and
they can both play it because the tour player might

(54:11):
just hit a wedge at the flag and the other
person might just put it. And as you have so
much variety there, but as you know, playing gamble sands,
you can do that out on the course as well.

Speaker 3 (54:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (54:22):
No, that was one of the things that really I
enjoyed most, and I like about a lot of courses
where you can it could be fifty sixty yards out
and get your putter out. Yeah, you know that's there's
nothing wrong with that because it lends itself to it.
I mean the other thing I loved out there, you know,
standing on all those tea boxes, you just really get
a sense of the vastness of the property, you know,

(54:46):
looking at those large fairways, and it just it builds confidence.
And you're standing on the tea box and getting ready
to hit a driver or three with whatever it is
you pull from the bag.

Speaker 4 (54:58):
So it does.

Speaker 7 (55:00):
It does make it fun, you know, and then you
can get as creative as your game allows you to.

Speaker 8 (55:07):
Yeah, the last round I played over a gambled sands.
I was playing with somebody that has never played there before,
and we're sitting on the par three ten pole and
it's I think one hundred and fifty yards back left
pin and there's a slope in front, there's a hill
in back. Me and my other partner standing on the
team like planning out our shot. We're gonna hit a
low drawn nine iron, We're gonna roll it up off

(55:28):
that hill. It's gonna come down. And we tried that
and we didn't succeed. And then the other guy just
hits a pitching wedge at the flag and it's like,
why didn't you guys just hit it at the flagstick?
And we kind of looked at each other like, I
don't know, I'm not really sure why. But it's less
fun that way, I think.

Speaker 7 (55:47):
Yeah, now, you know that's tie. There's all different ways
to get to the pin, right yep. Yeah, so I
guess I guess. Now the big debate is going to
be with the new course. I mean, there's gonna be
lots of comparisons obviously, I mean, are they what are
some of the major if there are any differences?

Speaker 8 (56:10):
Yeah, good, good question. I mean I think we're still
learning those as as the grass and the property matures
will learn more and more of you know, similarities and differences.
I mean off the bat, you know, on the first hole,
you see it, you feel it on Scarecrow that it's
different than Gamble. Sands a little more dramatic elevation changes,
and the greens are a little bit more, let me say,

(56:32):
less subtle, and so you see that right off the bat,
and I think the beauty of the design to me
is like hole one and two. You there's no question
it's a different golf course. And then you get to
wholes three and four and five, and there it kind
of brings you back to what you're used to over
at Gamble and some of the subtle differences. There's a

(56:54):
couple more forced carries, not all you know, there's obviously
four teas that take that out of it, but there's
a couple fourth carries. And then the slopes are a
little less consistent on the on the scale, there's more
humps and bumps within the larger slope, so you have

(57:15):
to make sure that you're on the right side of
the back hill or the left side of the front hill,
or different things like that. There's a couple more pop
bunkers that are in play. I think that's attributed to
what I mentioned earlier about not knowing how fast and
firmed gamble sands might be. Now that we know how

(57:35):
fast it will be, those bunkers are in more strategic spots.
And then you know, out here out on Scarecrow, it's
really important to play the right tea boxes at gamble.
I think you can get away and it's fun to
play any set of teas because it's fairly wide for
a longer portion of the hole. Out here, the fairways

(58:00):
are just as wide, but they are kind of a
you know, they narrow to wide to narrow, so you know,
if you play the wrong tease it kind of hurts
you a little bit. I think so just a few
small things, but at the end of the day, the
feedback we've heard. My feedback is it's equally as fun
and scorable. It just makes you think a little bit

(58:24):
differently and maybe even more. And I don't think that's
a bad thing.

Speaker 7 (58:28):
And it just takes a little more thinking, which you know, no,
you want you want to that's the whole idea. You
want to get out there and think about what club
you're going to pull out, where you're going to hit it,
and well, at the same time, make it fun. Yeah,
real simple.

Speaker 8 (58:48):
It's exciting to see the back and forth already. Right,
you go into the bar at night and you hear
this group thinks this, and this group thinks that, and
I think looking back in time, and you know, there
was a lot of times I was kind of a
fly on the wall for some of these conversations between
David and ownership or you know, irrigation design team and them,

(59:08):
and you know, they kept saying that if anyone after
this argues which one's better, we did our job. You know,
because Gamble, we know, is certified.

Speaker 4 (59:18):
It's good.

Speaker 8 (59:19):
So people are even questioning which one they think is better.
Job job done.

Speaker 7 (59:28):
So again, you know, I don't want to make it
sound like you know, it's impossible to get there, but
you know it is remote. And given that that it is,
I mean, where have you seen the majority of your
golfers coming from so far? I mean, is it primarily Seattle? Portland,
you know, the northwest area.

Speaker 8 (59:49):
Yeah yeah, I mean with with one golf course, you know,
over the last ten years, that's that's definitely the majority
of the market. We did a little analysis and it
was sixty five percent, you know, from within six hours,
which includes Portland, Spokane, Seattle. Over the years we started
to see that change a little bit and grow and

(01:00:10):
get bigger, and even the last year or two we've
seen a difference with just people, even when we announced
the new course, right, I think it sparks a credibility
to hey, if they're building another one, obviously the first
one's got to be good or it's got to be
a good experience. But the other big piece of that
is just living on these lists, right, these top one
hundred lists or you know, people are just coming to

(01:00:32):
check it off the list. And I think the beauty
that we found here is that people want to play
it again.

Speaker 4 (01:00:41):
You know.

Speaker 8 (01:00:42):
It's not you know not you know, you might go
to another golf course and it's top one hundred, it's
incredible and the grass is perfect, but you get beat
up a little bit, or the rough is six inches
long or whatever. You may not be like, hey, I
want to play this every day for the rest of
my life. But I think people here they want another
crack app you know, it's fun, enjoyable, and so you know,

(01:01:02):
we've developed over ten years of the culture of having
people back, and we have these big groups that come
every year from all over the place.

Speaker 7 (01:01:12):
Right, and now you've got some nice stay play packages.
You know, you've got the end there, right, How many
different how many accommodations? How many can you accommodate there?

Speaker 8 (01:01:23):
Yes, there's seventy seven rooms, one hundred and forty one beds,
so quite a few beds. And you know, we've just
got done building an additional lodge which is all double
king units, so it's forty double king rooms, so ultimate
kind of variety for groups that maybe want one one

(01:01:43):
single person in each room, at least they get a
king bed versus you know, right now you might have
to get in a double queen, even though we're you know,
trying to move things around. But yeah, we have a
thirty seven rooms down here overlooking the punting course pool
and then the new lodge overlooks fourteen holes of the scale,
so you really get a great view of everything going

(01:02:04):
on over there until that and until scarecrow. I mean
there's nowhere you can see golf from. I mean you
can see half a hole from the restaurant and you
can't see any golf from the current lodge. And so
it's kind of been a hidden mostique that you know,
you don't really know what you're getting into till you
get out there. And so people playing Scarecrow, they want

(01:02:25):
to go stare at hole one for a little bit
and kind of think through it before they play it.
And you know, you see whole two and all three
and all four, and you see all these holes over there.
So it's pretty cool kind of ying and yang for lodging,
and then who knows what's down the road, right, Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:02:43):
So great for buddy trips obviously. I mean, what do
you want golfers to take away to come there for
a couple of nights and yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:02:53):
I.

Speaker 8 (01:02:55):
Everything, a little bit of everything and pick your pick
your vacation. One thing I'm most excited about, I think
over the next few years is to see how people
like to plan their trip, because you got to come
here once and okay, here are those units here, these units,
Oh I like this course or I like that course.
The first year we won't really get a good analysis

(01:03:16):
of that because everybody's going to try the new stuff
or but when they come back and they say, oh no,
we really want to stay in these rooms and we
really want to play this course twice instead of this
course twice. And I'm excited for that. But I think
ultimately our goal here at Gamble Sands is to host
those groups better than anyone else could do in our market,

(01:03:39):
in our competitive set, because our you know who we
hold our standards to or are big Fish, right, the
bandits and sand Valleys, the stream songs, and you know,
by hosting some events that have been out there. You know,
I go out there bandon every year. So trust me,
I love that place.

Speaker 7 (01:03:58):
No, I was just up there a couple of months ago.

Speaker 8 (01:04:00):
I mean it's amazing, But at some point you kind
of just feel like you're a number and you know,
working through the system there, and so it's really important
to us to have more of a personal experience and
make sure that the groups and the group coordinator feel appreciated.
It's a lot of work putting together a trip like that,
and you're putting down your credit card and you're wrangling

(01:04:23):
all the people and you're doing this and that, So
we really try to make sure it's as easy as
possible for them. So maybe their group of fift the
fifteen guys that came may have had a whatever experience,
But the guy who puts it all together, that's the
person that you got to make sure has a good time,
because you know, their trip can be ruined before they

(01:04:46):
even get here, because you know, we didn't charge them
the right radar, we got them this, or we booked
them the wrong this. So we really take pride in
that and it's important to me, and I know it's
important to our staff.

Speaker 7 (01:04:59):
That's you're you're so right. I mean, that's that's key
to today's world of golf travel. So Ted you want
to jump in, you got anything you want to learn
about gamble sands.

Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
You know what.

Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
I think you guys did a great job. But I
do have just a couple of thoughts I wanted to
to share. I think, Blake, what you were saying is
exactly right. I think you want to make sure that
the person that's that's really organizing, because I've done that myself.
I've had to be the organizer, and I know it
can be tough wrangling the guys, and especially getting them
to fork up the money. Yeah, that's the biggest thing,
but you know, you want them to have a good.

Speaker 3 (01:05:33):
Time in that.

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
And you know, I was looking at you know, prior
to the tonight's show, I was looking on the website
and we're going to give that here in just a second,
and and just looking at it. And you know, again,
if you are somebody that really enjoys and wants to
be challenged playing link style courses, I mean, you guys
have really hit it out of the park. I mean,
it's just absolutely gorgeous properties and it's just interesting to

(01:05:57):
see how, you know, how the architect has taken that
landscape and just made it into a beautiful What I
was going to ask you though, is is because it
is very open, but you do have mountains around.

Speaker 3 (01:06:08):
What is the wind like there?

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
Do you get I mean because you're not coming off
you know, the ocean's not right there or whatever. You
but do you get some some trade winds coming in
at all or any sort of you know, or is
it pretty much you're isolated in around behind the mountains.

Speaker 8 (01:06:22):
Yeah, we I would I think people think it probably
would be windier than it is typically our our wind season,
for lack of a better term, would be like mid
April and then you know October fifth through the thirtieth. Sure,
everything every now and then something will pop up and

(01:06:42):
coming through here, but we're kind of a weird zone
where we're up above the river and so some things
pass us. But in general, our weather here is awesome.
I mean, obviously, going to Scotland, Ireland abandoned san you know,
everyone's got seasons and different things. But for the most part,
we're ninety degrees from May thirty first to September thirtieth,

(01:07:08):
and you're not going to have an issue with a
lot of weather.

Speaker 3 (01:07:11):
Yeah, so you're good on you.

Speaker 8 (01:07:13):
Yeah, Yeah, it's pretty good all year around. Not a
lot of precipitation.

Speaker 3 (01:07:16):
Yeah, that's nice too.

Speaker 2 (01:07:17):
A lot of people, you know, like that consistency too,
so that you're you're not having to sort of be
pigeonholed into a very short season like that.

Speaker 3 (01:07:24):
Yeah, and that's good. And you know, it sounds like to.

Speaker 2 (01:07:26):
Me from what you just said, it's more early spring
and maybe later fall that you might you know, get
some some win here, but other than that, it's pretty
much perfect conditions. And uh so the website is is
Gamblesands dot com. And uh see if somebody wants to book,
You've got a great team up there that's going to
be able to help put a package together for them
and show them a really good time. And and uh,

(01:07:49):
I know, Robert, as you said, you had a great
time when you went up there, and I'm sure you're
going to go back now that you've got some more
uh brother golf opportunities to play in and uh, maybe
you'll do better on that par three he talked about earlier.

Speaker 3 (01:08:03):
And Blake, you got to get out their price.

Speaker 2 (01:08:04):
But I want to thank you for coming on and
and uh and uh, you know, explaining a little bit
about Gamble Sands and and uh, I think the best
thing for people to do is to to go to
their website, do a little exploration yourself, reach out to
the folks there at Gamble Sands and have a conversation.
They'll uh, you know, set you up right with a
great buddy trip or even if it's a couple that
wants to get out there and just play some golf together.

(01:08:26):
But go to Gamblesands dot com uh to get all
the information there at Blake and of course Robert, Thank
you very much for joining me. Welcome back everybody to

(01:09:18):
Golf Talk Live. I'm very very excited to have tonight's
featured guest Bobby Steiner. He is the director of golf
Instruction for Horseshoe Bay Resort in Texas. Let me tell
you a little bit about him and then we'll get
right down to tonight's discussion. So, as I mentioned, he
is the director of golf Instruction for Horseshoe Bay Resort
and he has had an incredible career as a golf instructor.

(01:09:42):
He began his career back in ninety six in Asheville,
North Carolina. Then in nineteen ninety nine, Bobby moved to
Palm Springs, California to serve as head teacher professional at
the Weston Mission Hills Resort, Gary Player Signature Course. Bobby
spent nearly two decades at the Weston, working one on
one with thousands of golfers of all levels and thousands
more through Golf Digest and the ESPN Golf Schools. And

(01:10:05):
as I mentioned, he's currently the director of golf Instruction
at Horseshoe Bay Resort in Texas. Whereas knowledge of the
game is as evident as the passion for as his
passion for teaching. So, Bobby, welcome to Golf Talk Live.

Speaker 5 (01:10:18):
Yeah, it's so glad to be here. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:10:20):
I appreciate we have had obviously, Horseshoe has been on
the show. We've had some guests before from here, but
we have not had you on here. And I'm really
really excited because as a fellow teach professional, I've always
liked to pick their brains. I think it's always good
to get a little bit. So let me let me
start this off.

Speaker 3 (01:10:39):
I think the.

Speaker 2 (01:10:39):
Simplest way is we've got a little bit of understanding
of your professional career and where things sort of started.

Speaker 3 (01:10:46):
But when was your first recollection? When did you first
sort of take up the game as a youngster or
what age were you when you first learned to play golf.

Speaker 5 (01:10:55):
No, I'm came on pretty late, as as fire teaching
professionals go. I was twenty before touch the club. So
I'm unique in that I remember as a as an
adult shooting over one hundred, and I put down the
entire world and decided I was going to become a
golf professional. And you know, you don't get a lot
of support whenever you're good college and you're telling everybody

(01:11:17):
gonna be a golf pro and you can't break a
hundred yet. But I I wait at tables at night
and I played golf all day from I was the
first person on the golf course, and if I didn't
have to work that night, I'd be the last person
to leave. I did that for eight years until I
took my playerability TESK. Past that, I got into the
PG program and started and started teaching. And that's ninety six.
So it's been it's been a great journey. It's been Uh.

(01:11:39):
I just can't imagine doing anything else, and I'm so
glad that I dropped the rest of the world for golf.

Speaker 2 (01:11:44):
What is it about the game that I mean, we
always hear in sort of cliche, I guess a little bit.
We always hear, you know, you hit that one beautiful
shots and it just brings everybody back.

Speaker 3 (01:11:53):
But what was it for you about the game that
really appealed to you?

Speaker 2 (01:11:56):
I mean, obviously you you're you know, in the profession now,
but when you first started playing the game, you know
as well as I do, it could be pretty darn
frustrating for a lot of folks out there.

Speaker 3 (01:12:05):
But what was it about the game that really appealed
to you? What was the challenge of it?

Speaker 2 (01:12:10):
You know, what was it that just sort of spoke
to you and said, I want to be a part
of this.

Speaker 5 (01:12:14):
I couldn't believe how exceedingly difficult it was. And here's
the thing about golf, it's different than every other game,
it seems to me, is the contrast, the difference between
your best shot and your worst shot. You know, and
you know, if someone's teaching you to do a backflip
off the high dive the first time you do it,
from that point forward, you can always do it. But
just because you make a six foot plot today has

(01:12:34):
no bearing whatsoever on the next six floor, and so
it's you know, it's maddening, but it was. It's you know,
that's what makes the good shots so rewarding is just
because you know, right around the corner, there's no guarantee
after seventeen great holes that the next hole won't be
absolutely disgraceful, and so one must always be on the
lookout for oneself and be ready to play and bring

(01:12:57):
it in. One little lapse in concentration is enough to
you know, lead to utter route, and so I just
found the challenge back then and still to this day,
the most rewarding aspect of it.

Speaker 2 (01:13:09):
You know, it's funny that you say that, because I
have interviewed I've had the pleasure of interviewing a lot
of professionals, some players as well, and I don't think
I've ever heard anybody describe it as eloquently as you
just did right now of exactly what people experience playing
this game. Because you're right, you know, you can make
that six foot putt and you're thinking, wow, I'm just
you know, this is great, and the next day you know,

(01:13:31):
you can't make a three foot putt and you say, well,
what happened to the guy that was you know, the
golf course yesterday? Same thing, you know with your you know,
shots off the tee. You know, you get up to
the first tee in day one and you're having a
great time and you're hitting some good drives and then
all of a sudden, you know, three or four holes down,
the wheels fall off the bus and you can't seem
to put anything together. So it can be maddening, but

(01:13:53):
you know it again again, not to sound cliche, but
that one good putt or that one good shot off
the tee is enough to bring a lot of people
pull back. And some people find it on the range,
some people find it on the golf course. But nevertheless,
we wouldn't be in business if they didn't, so it
makes it interesting. Also, yeah, I didn't mention, and I
want to bring us out a little bit more about you,

(01:14:16):
and then we're going to get into obviously horseshoe and
that as well. But you've authored four books and I
want you to talk a little bit about that. And
then you're also the creator of the perfect swing tempo
tuner training system. I want you to talk a little
bit about that. I think it's always important, you know,
when I have, you know, fellow professionals on that have

(01:14:38):
worked to make this game easier for the rest of
us out there. I wanted you to give you a
chance to talk and brag a little bit about that
if you want.

Speaker 4 (01:14:44):
So.

Speaker 2 (01:14:44):
Talk about the books. What are the books about? They
all both related? Are they a little mixture?

Speaker 5 (01:14:49):
Three of the four golf related. The first book. So
I first started writing a column called Golf Heart and Soul.
That was back in two thousand and one April for
the Palm Springs Daily paper. And after about a year,
and what I did was I told stories. I had
I had characters with whom I walked the golf course.

(01:15:10):
This was some sort of fictional stories, all to teach golf.
And after about a year, other papers started picking it up,
and other papers started picking it up, and pretty soon
I had a lot of papers across the country. And
and then soon a literary agent from New York called,
so involving love out on what you're right, let's put
the book together. And so my first book, Muni, came
out in two thousand and four, and that was that

(01:15:33):
was that was a lot of fun. Got to travel
at Nordstrom. Actually I was the only book. Muni was
the only book that they carried in the entire store,
in the men's sections, all in all one hundred and
fifty two stores. And that was that was a wonderful thing.
Golf America magazine called it golf Book of the Year
in two thousand and five, and that that was just
that was a wonderful experience. Since then, I've had another

(01:15:54):
book called Let's see It's it's the this is this
is a subtitled to my little It's called my little
book of practice games subtitled Short Game Mastery, and it's
basically it's a it's a handbook on how you know,
with twenty different practice games and a score sheet that

(01:16:15):
goes with that. But I also got another book called
the Little Book of the Big Success, and it's a
take off of a it's motivational speech that I give
first gave here at Horshoe Bay Resort back in nine
excuse me in twenty nineteen, and since has grown and
I've oh, that's been that's been a fun book too,
but it's more inspirational. I think whenever covidit in particular,

(01:16:36):
and we were all a little restriction what we could do.
That that service inspiration to branch out a little bit.
But golf is my thing, and in terms of the
perfect swing tempo system, you know, it became clear to
me a long time ago that you've got to get
you've got to get a hold of yourself and putting
a confident, relaxed golf you know, swing on a golf

(01:16:56):
ball before anything else will ever work. You know, all
the mechanics in the world, all the understanding of mechanics
and the rudiments of form, do you no good whatsoever
if you don't have the ability to relax, if you
can't make a good confidence wing, the mark of which
is a balanced, relaxed finish. And so that the perfect
swing tempo system is all about kind of teaching a

(01:17:18):
little bit and reverse and that is, hey, let's start
with a relaxed, balanced finish. You know, I'll never forget
Jackie Burke Junior, who just passed away last year at
age one hundred. In his book, he talked about the need.
He said, if you if you brought up different people
like Ernie L's and Fred Couple's and you know Jeene
Littlard from way back when, and ask him who what

(01:17:41):
phrase comes to mind when you think of these type players. Well,
most people bace. People say oh, tempo or rhythm or
this or that, but rarely will they say balanced. And
he's saying in his argument was, and I think it's great,
is that you get rhythm and tempo by being committed
to balance. If you're balanced, perfect balance, and that is
completely balanced and relaxed, that you're finished, then the tempo,

(01:18:04):
the rhythm is something you'll get for free. And so
that's been a real rewarding thing in an eye opener
for a lot of people to find out that they
can hit the ball farther in many cases by simply
relaxing and learning to allow the club to swing.

Speaker 2 (01:18:15):
And I think something that we've learned in the business
here in the last probably decade or so, is that
the swings are different for everybody. There's so we've started
to have a better understanding that, you know, no one
swing fits all. I mean, obviously there's certain components of
the golf swing, you know, club face, sid impact and

(01:18:36):
that sort of thing that are consistent with even the
best players. I mean, you know, you look at somebody
like Lee Trevino. You mentioned a couple, you know, Ernie
L's and Freddie Couple's. You look again, their swings are
somewhat different. You know, Freddie and Ernie have a much
more relaxed and sort of smooth approach. You know, Lee
had a little bit different, an awkward approach to the game,
but they all had the same core fundamentals were the same.

(01:18:59):
How do you, as a professional recognize from player to player,
and I'm talking about amateur players. Forget the pros for
right now, but amateur players, how do you recognize Okay,
this is not going to work for you, but this
is going to work for you. How do you how
do you differentiate? What do you look for?

Speaker 3 (01:19:18):
First? I guess is the best way to approach that?

Speaker 5 (01:19:21):
Well, let me let me sort of answer what I
thought you were going to ask for just a moment.
That is. You know, sometimes people will come in here
and say, I want to swing like Ernie Els, or
I want to sleep, I want to learn this move
that I saw Tiger, and I have to let him
know right.

Speaker 3 (01:19:33):
Away that ain't gonna happen.

Speaker 5 (01:19:35):
It can't. You know, one should never mistake nuances for fundamentals.
You know, we see this one thing that I'll never
forget after the two thousand and three Masters, when when
weird one, I think it was two thousand and three.
I remember you may remember his left hand and he
had that little thing where he could go to the
halfway point and then come back. And then he won
the Masters and he won the green jacket. On Monday morning,

(01:19:56):
I look out on the range there at the Gary
Plair Course, and there are about nine people out there
and four of them are doing that. Now they're all
right in, but they're doing the same thing. They're looking
they're looking at the backswing as if there was some
magic that might wear off that Mike Weir had that
earned him the green jacket if they just did that
same little nuance. People often latch onto nuances and mistake
them for some fundamentals. And I've got to make that
clear that while there are certain characteristics that every great

(01:20:19):
player possesses, there are nuances that make them difference. And
it's important that we understand that those are two different things.
And so to get to your actual question, though, you know,
I look at the club face to begin you know,
it's a little different with a beginner. You've got to
find out what other games they played, and what their
experiences are, and what they you know, even with limited experience,
oftentimes they've already looked on YouTube and have some idea

(01:20:41):
what it is they're trying to do. In other words,
what are you trying to do with this golf ball?
And let's talk about what you should do. You know,
square club face will go a long way, and that is,
you know, if a person has a super weak grip
and therefore leave all their shots out to the right,
well now they're going to swing over the top to
try to guide that thing to the left. And you know,
you can't clear anything upuntil you can clear up that
club face, which is the cause, and all those other

(01:21:01):
things are the effect. And so you got to look
at it. But yet some people come with a good
grip and they have other issues. Maybe it's posture. Oftentimes
people think they're lined up at the target. They're line
you know, thirty yards to the right. Well that's going
you know, the danger there is not that they're going
to hit it thirty yards right. The dangers they're going
to find a way to get it back to the hole.
And therefore, you know, develop a swing that's just as

(01:21:21):
flawed as they're set up. And so you know, it's
case by case. But it is a puzzle that I
never tire of putting together. I mean, it's a one
hour thing where I've got them in here now, I
mean the you know, we've got their indoor studio, a
track man, I've got all these things now. They can
see themselves for twenty five years they talk without that,
you know, and so you've got to be a pretty

(01:21:41):
good salesman when you don't have video. And what I
mean by that is most people can't feel what it
is you're telling them and identifying as their swing fault
and so when you tell them they're doing so and
so and they just simply can't feel it. There has
to be some buying. And with the video and analysis
we have now, it's wonderful. So, like I say here,
it is see that line. You need to be a

(01:22:02):
little closer to this line. Oh and with each successive
swing they see themselves getting closer and closer and closer
and self. I've always loved teaching, but I love it
even more now.

Speaker 2 (01:22:12):
Yeah, the visual component in golf instruction has has really
been a game changer for years because again, you know,
you can you can explain and try to articulate, you know,
until the cows come home. And there are are some
people that can can manage to understand that. But I
think a good majority, I think you're exactly right. I
think a good majority of people need to visually see
what you're talking about. Okay, yeah, that makes sense now

(01:22:34):
now I understand what you're you know you're trying. And
I'm one of those people. I mean, even though I teach,
I'm very you know, conscious of the fact that I
need to demonstrate and let people see whether through the
video that we've taken, or through even my own demonstration
of what it is. I'm trying to get across to
them because just talking, you know, in front of them,
you know, you can it's almost like their their eyes

(01:22:55):
are roll in the back of their head, you know,
because they're just not understanding it. So you have to
be able to do that and video and obviously the
technologies you said with it, and we're going to talk
about that now, but you know that that your academy
at Horshey Bay has, so let's let's brag about that
a little bit. You guys got a world class facility
up there, So let's talk about the Golf Academy at
Horseshoe Bay.

Speaker 5 (01:23:16):
It's it's uh it. We had our soft opening in
December and then our grand opening in March of this year.
And you know, they they they've built it and put
it together in one calendar year. Started in January and
got it together by December, and it's absolutely beautiful. I've
been the guest instructor at other academies I've been to
and visited other places, but none that topped this one.
And I'm so excited. So we've got to two indoor

(01:23:38):
bays both we're in partnership with Calway Golf and so
both with TrackMan technology and also a Calidway custom fitting
studio and all that. And then we have eight outdoor
covered hitting mays that run east to west, which means
what it means. They are always covered because the sun's
going right over straight overhead and always right in line

(01:23:58):
with it, so it's always in This always has a breeze,
so even when it's ninety nine degrees a day, I've
got people out there hitting and no one's even breaking
a sweat. I love it. And then we've got a
Monster's voyse tea out front, which of the grass is
just it's so nice to have that as well as
a laser voyage punting surface and some bunkering and it's
just a great place. So I teach golf schools one, two,

(01:24:20):
and three day golf schools. That's the thing that I've
been looking for. You know, I've been here for seven
years and we've just now built the academy. A background
before that was working for you know at the Western
Mission Hills with golf tighter schools, ESPN Golf schools, Truan
Institutes and so my passion, my my history has always
been teaching golf schools. That is, people coming vacationers from
far away and teaching. And so now I can finally

(01:24:42):
do it. And I've just been living in the stream
world for the last seven years going there's going to
be a day when we get to do this again.
And finance come.

Speaker 3 (01:24:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:24:50):
And you know, when you have the right tools, it
makes obviously your you know, your job so much easier,
and you know, having the state of the art equipment.
And I noticed in some of the notes I was reading,
you have obviously offer club fitting and things like that
in a club repair room, and you guys have fondly
labeled that the dirty room.

Speaker 3 (01:25:09):
Tell us a little bit about that. How did that
come about?

Speaker 5 (01:25:11):
Oh, we had we had club repair on site here
for all this time and it was kind of just
a little signary. Now it's part of the teaching academy.
And so ed our who's also a Cowboy certified club
club fitter, he does all the club repair. So it's
full service. You know, we've got a pretty big membership,
something like seventeen hundred golf members in addition to everybody else,

(01:25:35):
and you know, there's somebody snapping a shaft just about
everything all day. So nice to have a place to
bring there's no great or they know exactly where to
come and get it fixed and patched it up right.

Speaker 3 (01:25:46):
What do you you know?

Speaker 2 (01:25:48):
You obviously want to have a well rounded experience for
members and obviously resort guests, you know, when they come,
you know, to Horseshoe Bay, But what is it that
you want them to take away from that? I mean,
obviously you've got some world class golf and you've got
obviously incredible facilities to offer, but when when they're coming
up there, for somebody that's never been there before, what

(01:26:10):
is it besides the wow factor?

Speaker 3 (01:26:12):
What is it that you want them to take away
from that experience?

Speaker 2 (01:26:15):
And obviously hope that they're going to come back again,
and I'm sure a lot of them do, but what
is the what is it the when you're thinking about
that and you're you're speaking with a guest or or
something for the first time, what is it you want
them to take away from their experience at Horseshoe.

Speaker 5 (01:26:29):
So it's funny asked that, you know, when I when
I was first sort of recruited for this position, I
thought I knew about every seventy two hole facility in
the country. If you ask me, I always say, oh, yeah,
if they're being particularly a real design course with the
Robert Trent Jones Senior and Jack Nicholas like we have here.
But I hadn't heard of Orchard Bay and uh, and
then I'm going to Texas Horseshoe Bay. What's that, dear

(01:26:50):
Corpus Christy? What bay are we talking about? Well, we
were on Lake LBJ here. I just I just hadn't
heard of it, and nor did I know about the
special places a hill country is. Have you been out here?

Speaker 4 (01:26:59):
Ted?

Speaker 3 (01:26:59):
Have you been to the I have not. I'm planning
on coming next year. So yeah, that's why I'm asking you.

Speaker 5 (01:27:06):
Oh if someone just dropped you here and sort it
took off the blind phone and says, what what country
do you think? Excuse me, what state do you think
you're in? Texas would not be this this this the
land remains as nature shaped it, and it's green and
it's rolling, and these beautiful golf courses. Now I've played
some courses, some Robert Trent Jones Senior courses along the way. Uh,

(01:27:27):
you know the golf what is it? The Golf Trail
in Alabama and all that.

Speaker 3 (01:27:31):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:27:32):
I had to play two of the three of the
courses there and thought he was a good designer.

Speaker 3 (01:27:35):
But it's not.

Speaker 5 (01:27:36):
But it's only after being here that I truly appreciate,
particularly these courses, because we have Ramrock that is is
tough and one of my h Bill Pullhom is a
former PGA Tour player, told me he said, oh, you're
moving to orship Bag, wait till you play Ramrock. That's
a tough golf course. And for him to say that,
I knew it must be tough and uh, but also
a great course. And it's I don't know how many

(01:27:57):
courses I've played in my life, maybe three or four hundred.
It's definitely top five. It's just a well designed course
and it's not I'm not saying that like, aren't I
great though those difficult golf courses. One that I consider
it's a fair but challenging golf course. And then Alfle Rock,
which is picturesque. If someone just dropped you there and
you really didn't look at maybe some of the architecture
of the home, you would think you were probably in

(01:28:18):
the Shenandoah Valley or maybe the mountains of North Carolina
something like that. It's just it's green and rolling and
hilly and these these these elevated tea shots and elevated
greens and valleys and it's just absolutely beautiful here in
the in the hill country at Texas. And then Slick Rock,
which is the third Robert trans Jones Senior courses. It
offsets the other two. It's it's our it's from nineteen
seventy three is when it opened, and it's only sixty

(01:28:40):
six hundred yards and it just doesn't have the teeth
of the other two. But it's still beautiful. And you know,
if someone's played here a long time and they say,
you know, you say, what's your best score here? And
they tell you what their best score, you will assume
they probably shot that at Slick Rock, because it's just
the you know, the easiest of the three, most user friendly,
I suppose, But nonetheless it's the challenge and it's fun
and it's got the million our whole uh and so

(01:29:03):
beyond that, you know the other thing, and this this
speaks to your bigger question about you know, what do
I want people to see? You know, when if they
when they leave here, they go, you know what you
had a great experience at Horseshoe Bay. What was it?

Speaker 3 (01:29:14):
What was it?

Speaker 5 (01:29:15):
The golf? Yeah, the golf was great, but it wasn't
just that. Well what was it the marina? Oh, the
marina was it was fun. We went out on jet
skis were the beach That was great too, But that's
not it. Well, well was it the restaurants? Oh, the
restaurants were great. We had a different dining experience every night.
All kinds of international cuisine is great. But that's not
it either. Well what was it then? Well, once at
the resort, we were treated like the equal of kings,

(01:29:37):
and that is that we mattered, and they showed us
the Southern hospitality and that's how they made their mark.
And so yes, we've got all these wonderful amenities, but
people remember the experience and how they're treating you know.
There really is a thing to this text that the
Southern hospital hospitality that people are shown in Texas, uh
and in the South at large. But it's that sort

(01:29:58):
of thing, and I love it because when people come
back and they see you know, we just I know
you saw us last year, but you're gonna see us
every year because we just haven't found.

Speaker 3 (01:30:07):
A place like this talk about it.

Speaker 2 (01:30:10):
And you know, that's an excellent point because there's a
lot of there's a lot of people who you know,
probably don't appreciate, fully appreciate how important the staff, how
important the support you know, teams are and not just
for the golf but for the other amenities that the
resort offer. And you you really sort of laid that

(01:30:31):
out quite well, and that is that it is. It's
not just the facility, it's not just the amenities. It's
how you're treated, how people you know, welcome you when
you're coming into the resort, how they're making sure your
needs are met. And and that's something that you've had
been able to experience now for for a number of years.
And from a golf experience again, people want to you know,

(01:30:53):
they're coming there to play, they're they're going to be challenged,
whether they're playing slick rock, where they're playing you know,
ram rockers or what have you. And you know there's
going to be a challenge for everybody, which is important.
You want to have that diversity and challenge so that
there's some for the less accomplished golfers that maybe need
a little bit easier course to play it, and there's
those that really want to test their you know, their

(01:31:13):
metal out there. How important is that that you want
to make sure your staff that you have there in
the golf side of things make sure they're making the
most out of that experience for the customer.

Speaker 5 (01:31:24):
This is the phrase that I use with the guys
who work for me here at the Golf Academy is, Guys,
you have an opportunity all day long to make the moment.
Make the moment, and that is you're standing there with somebody,
Maybe both of you are waiting for a bay to
come open or something. But there can be something that
you do that makes this individual moment. Maybe it's asking
where they're from, what kind of golf experiences they've had,

(01:31:45):
where they've been, what they've done, why they're here, And
suddenly that two and a half minutes that they had
to wait for something flies by and they're excited because
they got to speak to somebody who could have just
remained silent. You both could have waited doing absolutely and
I think except a little bit of thumb twiddling. So
so anytime we can make someone's moment, make the moment
for someone, it's it's it's meaningful and it carries long

(01:32:07):
beyond this moment. And once once the staff sees that
and feels that, and uh, you know it's contagious. Given
good service and going out of your way for somebody
and seeing the look on the person's face is something
that that once you experience that, you all you really
want to feel that all the time. And you know

(01:32:28):
this is this is home for all of us. And
so I have to remind the guys, hey, it's not
home for them. They've been thinking about this for eight
months since they booked this, since they booked this vacation.
Pour it on, guys, Pour it on and show them that,
you know that the same level of excitement that you
had the first time you came here. And then you're
you'll be right on the mark.

Speaker 3 (01:32:45):
What would you say?

Speaker 2 (01:32:46):
And I'm not necessarily looking for a percentage, but I'm
just trying to get, you know, for the people that
are that are going to be tuning into this, that
give them an idea of of sort of the diversity.
You know a lot of golf vacations. Golf was typically
always sort of the buddy trips, but now you're seeing
more couples, more families, would you say that Horseshoe over

(01:33:06):
since the seven years that you've been there, that you're
seeing more families coming now, and not just so much,
I mean not saying there aren't still buddy trips. Are
you seeing an increase in that or is it pretty
much the same or is it the other way around?
Are you seeing more buddy trips as opposed to family
because obviously you have a lot of amenities there. You
touched on a few and we could talk about some more.
But where are you seeing the biggest growth? I guess

(01:33:29):
is the question I'm asking you.

Speaker 5 (01:33:29):
You know, I see it in the family trips. This
is this is a place because we're you know, four
hours to Houston are a little less being where you're
in Houston, less than four hours of Dallas, three and
a half hours before forth, an hour and a half
from San Antonio, one hour to Austin. There are a
lot of places that you don't have to get on
from you know, from that you don't have to get
on an airplane to come here, and so that's great

(01:33:52):
for families. Hey, let's get in the car and let's go. Mom,
you're in the spall Kids, you're in the kids club,
we've got a great kids club. The kids enjoy it,
may can be there for hours and hours each day.
Well the parents either go golf or one goes to
spa and the other play golf whatever, and you know,
plus the marina and the pool and uh, it's just
uh we' it's we've we've got a floating pool, one

(01:34:14):
of only one and I don't know North America or
something like that. It's it's it's amazing. And so there's
just so much here for the family to do. And
and so I'm sure of that that it's it's more
family we're in it. But it's that didn't happen by accident.
The those in charge here, uh, those who do have
made this place a much bigger family destination, you know,

(01:34:35):
without you. When you do that, you don't have to
cut into the golf. The golf is still great.

Speaker 2 (01:34:39):
Yeah, and I think you know, again offering a lot
of things like that, like the the.

Speaker 3 (01:34:45):
Water sports, water activities.

Speaker 2 (01:34:48):
Uh, you know, you mentioned some fine dining and that
some great dining experiences, you know, and again the fact
that you're literally a short distance from so many major
centers in Texas makes it an ideal spot to come
whether it's for a weekend or whether it's for you know,
a family vacation for the summer, what have you. Makes
it so that it's a we can just hop in
the car and go. It's not that far of a drive.

(01:35:09):
And even if you do want to fly, it's again
it's a short flight you know, to come in there,
and you know, so again there's a lot of diversity,
a lot of options there. I want to go back
to the academy a little bit because you mentioned this,
and I want to get you to to talk a
little bit about this. You you said early on that
you really enjoy and have enjoyed doing golf schools, So
tell us a little bit about the golf schools. So

(01:35:30):
you have I think you said one in two and
three day schools, that correct, yes.

Speaker 5 (01:35:34):
One two and three day school So when I started
back with the Truan Golf Institute back in the late nineties,
we would do four hours of instruction in the morning,
and then you break for lunch, and then you do
two hours not know, playing lesson with them, and then
they you know, and then a recap and all this
sort of stuff. Well, since then, it's become clear to
me that that's just too much for some people. They

(01:35:56):
like to get some instruction, but one can only internalize
so much. There's so many, you know, there's so many,
only so many hours in a day. And so what
I have created here has been a golf school where
we do two hours in the morning, break for lunch,
and then we do a nine hole playing less than
every single so that's either one, two or three day.
You know, on day one we do putting and chipping
in full swing. That's all a video analysis of course,

(01:36:18):
and then on day two of pitching and bunker play
and full swing and full swings every day, and then
on day three recap of those four short game areas
as well as unlevel eyes and then full swing as well.

Speaker 3 (01:36:31):
And I'm going to.

Speaker 5 (01:36:32):
Sell you something two hours goes by pretty quick when
you've got to cover three topics. But again it's that
fast taste thing where it never drags that you're shooting
for U And if they want to do it in
another one, next year or whenever, they can do so.
But I just found in all those years, even back before,
you know, we're all in a hurry. Now, at least
as a society, we're more in our and ready to

(01:36:54):
help people checking on their phone more and they just
can't put up with downtime. Even twenty years ago, it
dragged to do that much where people just can't learn anymore.
You got this aha moment that you discovered with chipping,
and now we're doing pitching and there's the tweak it
that's a little different. But now I'm confused, these two
aha moments are in conflict, and so minimize it to

(01:37:16):
a couple of hours and then they can mark away
and retaining the most And so that's what we've done.

Speaker 2 (01:37:21):
Yeah, and that's a great point as well, because I
think you're right. I think a lot of people, you know,
our time restrictions are much different than what they used
to be. I mean, you know, people are working in
some cases longer hours, people have more family obligations, and
there's just that sort of a faster pace and people
just don't want to spend I mean, even with golf.

(01:37:41):
And I'm sure you guys have noticed this and maybe
you're maybe you've already done it or you're thinking about
making some adjustments, but you're seeing people come out and say,
you know, as an example, you know, I don't know
if I want to play for you know, four hours
or five hours or whatever anymore. And you know, I'd
like to play some holes, but I don't even know
if I want to play nine. Are you guys looking
at that or do you offer that at this time

(01:38:03):
where resort and I'm talking about resort guests mainly, but
where they're saying, hey, I don't know if I want
to do eighteen anymore. I want to maybe just do
nine or even you know other option of six holes.

Speaker 5 (01:38:13):
Yeah, something in the afternoon, we'll we have a nine
old rate. I mean, there's there's no six hold rate
unless we have some special going on where something's happening.
But yeah, the afternoon to have nine old rates, you know,
and as it goes, the t sheet is so you know,
we get a lot of rounds in and so it's
probably not it's not a good thing for us to
have nine hole rounds going out in the morning right
in the middle of No, of course not, but yeah,

(01:38:34):
in the afternoon, that's certainly something that that's offered every
single day. And yeah, people are you know, people want
to get on with and want to fill every single moment.
And that's the other thing is I don't I'm not
slighted by that that that maybe more than two hours
would be too much. They've got other That's the whole reason.
We have other things to do here at the resort.
Fail your time, I'll take up four hours of it,

(01:38:56):
you know, including our nine hole playing lesson. After that.
I find a lot of people may or may not
play golf because, you know, with the golf school, they're
free to play for the rest of the day if
they choose to. Often, two buddies who are here on
big you know, doing the golf school together, we'll go
ahead and play. They'll play. The darkness the whole reason here.
But a husband and wife will say, you know what,
we're we're gonna go over to the beach and then
we're gonna go to dinner tonight. So we're done. The

(01:39:16):
golf school's over three. We're gonna go make the rest
of our vacation doing something else. That's great.

Speaker 2 (01:39:24):
What do you and this might seem like a rhetorical question,
but what do you love most about your job?

Speaker 5 (01:39:30):
Oh? Think of it like, here's the thing. You know,
if you start, if you listen to two people sitting
at the bar, for instance, talking about golf and Fred
and Joe Freend says, man, I haven't made a putt
inside of six feet in two weeks, And Joe said, well, yeah,

(01:39:51):
you know, I haven't hit a fairway. And then he'll
say something about his own game. He'll say something about
his own game. Neither one of them care at all
about the other one's golf game. They're just making it.
This isn't a conversation. This is two guys making loose statement,
you know, statements about their own game with no concern
whatsoever for the other guy. Well, first, golfers are like that.
It's that kind of game, and so mine I am

(01:40:13):
that other guy who cares about your game for that
time that we're together. And because of that that that's
a very special role and feels quite good to the individual,
to the student. Hey, finally someone's asking me and asking
second and third level questions about my experiences, and so
I feel what I love about my job. I love
how people feel walking out here because you know, I'm

(01:40:36):
a teammate. I'm making sure that we addressed exactly what
their goals were before, you know, for designing the lesson,
before embarking upon what it is we did. But it
feels good to be a teammate. I'm a teammate and
when people send me emails a week later going, hey man,
you're not gonna believe this. I had a rough round
the day after, but the day after that I shot
my best ever. What's better than that? You know, we're all,

(01:40:59):
every single one of us who played golf, it doesn't
matter at the level, are in it for the same thing,
and that is we want a good round for us
whatever whatever that standard is. That's all any of us want.
You know, when when someone finally makes that putt to
beat their friend for the first time ever, that means
as much to him as it does when a tour
player wins his first tour event. It's what it means

(01:41:19):
to the individual, and it really is apples to apples
in that way, you know, and so and so when
you keep that in mind and realize that this is
a big deal and that you get to be part
of that, it's pretty special.

Speaker 3 (01:41:32):
Yeah. I've played with that foursome.

Speaker 2 (01:41:33):
That's very competitive, and I mean, you know, you would
think you're played in the Masters, you know, or the
US Open or something like that, and they're like, I mean,
it's like, come on, just put the ball and they're no,
hang on a minute, man, you know, I've got to
and they're lying up for you know, it seems like
forever and say come on, but you know you're right
it again.

Speaker 3 (01:41:50):
I think this is why so many people love this game.
I mean, you can get out there and you know,
struggle like no end, and then all of a sudden,
you hit that one peer shot and you're right parked
up next to the whole you know your approach shot,
or you get on there and you've got that you know, uh,
you know six seven eight foot putt, you know, to

(01:42:13):
make birdie and it drops in you know, dead center,
and it's like wow, you know, finish up a good round.
You might have shot ninety eight, but it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (01:42:21):
That birdie last birdie in eighteen just makes you want
to come back.

Speaker 3 (01:42:25):
And an instructor, you're exactly right.

Speaker 2 (01:42:28):
You hear a lot of different stories and it's very
it's very rewarding because, as you know, anytime that you
work with a student and you're making changes, especially if
they've got some you know, a number of issues to
work on, there's always a period that they're going to
struggle a little bit, but then all of a sudden,
they'll have that aha moment and you'll you'll sit there
and they'll say to you, just like you said, you know,

(01:42:49):
he reaches out to you an email or what have you,
and he says, well, the next day I had a
terrible round, but then one after that, man, everything came together.

Speaker 3 (01:42:57):
And that's what you'd want to hear, right, you know, And.

Speaker 5 (01:43:00):
This is part of what you're saying there is This
is why the interview process is so important. You've got
to know what they have tried in the past. You've
got to know what they're thinking now. There are some people.
Unless you ask, you'll never find out that what they're
intentionally trying to do is the exact opposite of what
they should be doing. But if you don't ask, if

(01:43:22):
you don't ask, you know, I've always thought it was
a fundamental that I should remain on my right foot
to hit chip shots. If you don't, you know, they
thought that's what they're supposed to do. They've been told
that or have been for whatever reason, believe that. You've
got to find out what it is they're trying to do,
what experiences they have had. And here's the thing. It's
really rewarding when they've been unsuccessful in the past and

(01:43:46):
come to you a little bit negative about their chances.
I know four of different guys have tried to get
rid of my slide, so I really don't expect much
of you, but maybe you can help some And then
we get that thing turned into a draw before the
thing's over, and they look at you like you returned
their lost chial. They're going, oh my god. And when
with that particular fix, of course, you know it's another twenty.

Speaker 3 (01:44:06):
Nine yards, so you know, it's.

Speaker 5 (01:44:09):
Just it's just such a wonderful thing, particularly when you
know in the past they've been unsuccessful in that pursuit,
and you know, nothing gets his reward like perseverance and patience,
and so for them to hang on and try one
more time and finally make it work, it's it's awful
fun to be part of that.

Speaker 3 (01:44:24):
Process, Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:44:26):
Uh And and you're right, you know, it's the look
on their face when they especially when they've been working
on for something for so long and just can't seem
to put it together, and you know, they spend an
hour with you and all of a sudden, you know
there's a major change, and and they go with an
excitement and their their enthusiastic again, because you know, this
was one thing that was interesting, you know, a few

(01:44:46):
years back, just prior to COVID, you know, and I
know you know this, but you know, there was a
lot of folks that, you know, we're struggling with their game,
and there's you know, especially some of our older golfers,
and they're just like, you know, I just can't do
it anymore. I'm just really struggling with the game. And
then COVID came, and of course everybody got tired of
sitting inside so they wanted to come back out. So
there's kind of a resurgent, and it was really an
opportunity for the industry to say, Okay, let's let's try

(01:45:10):
to make this more fun. Obviously we want to be
able to help people and become better players and so forth,
but let's really because we've got a new audience now
in addition to some of the regulars that have come
around for years, we want to make it fun.

Speaker 3 (01:45:24):
We want to make this and get them enthusiastic.

Speaker 2 (01:45:26):
And there's no better way to do that than to
help somebody really sort of turn the light on for them,
if you will.

Speaker 3 (01:45:32):
In their own golf game.

Speaker 2 (01:45:33):
Because once they start to see and have that as
I said, that aha moment, now all of a sudden,
they're excited again. They're enthusiasts. I know, guys that have
played for thirty forty fifty years and we're on the cusp,
but I don't know if I want to play anymore.
And then all of a sudden, you give them that
little spark and they're out and they're out there outpacing
their buddies in the foes them and it's like, wow,
what happened here?

Speaker 3 (01:45:54):
You know what? You know, what got lit under your feet?

Speaker 2 (01:45:57):
And it's just because they just had struggled for so long,
and all of a sudden, now you found that magic
you know, uh, you know saw us if you will,
for their for their golf swing. And now they're able
to get back out there and re engage, uh and
and enjoy the game and have fun again.

Speaker 3 (01:46:12):
And that's really what it's about.

Speaker 2 (01:46:13):
We want people to have fun and get out there
and uh and talk around the bar and and you know,
joke with one another and you know, talk about the
good and the bad, but particularly we want them to
talk about the good. So that's got to be a
very rewarding for you and for your team.

Speaker 5 (01:46:27):
Absolutely. You know, it's funny to say that. I had
a gentleman come to me the other day and he say, listen,
uh my sister, I want you. I want you to
meet my grandson and tell me if he what you
think about his potential because he's a baseball player, but
I want to get him into golf. And and if
you think he has potential, you know, he's such a
good baseball player if in playing since he was a kid,

(01:46:48):
he's already getting looked at by all kinds of colleges.
But I think if he picked up golf, he could
get the same thing with golf. And he says, and
if you and I want you to look at him
and you tell me if you think that this is
a pursuit and he should follow. I said, hey, you
don't have to have that to introduce him to golf.
Golf is just for the guy who's going to take
you to the highest level, right, how about just all
the people? He said, yes, they introduce him to golf,

(01:47:09):
all four. But don't you know, don't give up baseball.
If he's got stuff going on. Golf is golf is
more than something you can only enjoy because it takes
you somewhere because of your ability go out and play
the game, all the people you get to meet, all
the all the different wonderful places you get to spend
time at. I mean, it's just a It is in
so many ways a great game. And and if you're

(01:47:31):
really crazy about the game and something, obviously that's a bonus.
If you just can't get enough golf, you know, there
there have been times in my life when I was
so particularly when I first started playing, that I would
rather be with someone I didn't really care for on
a golf course than be with my best friend anywhere else.
I love golf, you know. It was just like and
it didn't have to be a good golf course. It
didn't just had to be someplace that had a fairway

(01:47:53):
and some greens in a hole that's forting quarter inches
in diameter. And when when that's where you are with
your golf, it's a fun game. You know, you'll scope
to the starter and say, put me with anybody. I'll
play with anybody. I just want to play that, you know,
And so that's a good game.

Speaker 2 (01:48:10):
Yeah, my earlier days, that's what I did a lot
of I always would go and and you know, because
sometimes my friends for whatever reason, weren't able to play,
and I would just go up to the local course
and I would say, you know, throw me in with
a group, and they would. And I always had a
lot of fun. And I got to be honest and
all kidding aside, but I really enjoyed playing with the ladies.
They were always the biggest laugh because and especially in

(01:48:32):
that time. I'm talking, you know, thirty forty years ago now,
but you know, they weren't as as accomplished at the time. Now,
you know, we've got some great lady golfers out there,
but you know, earlier on, they weren't as many out there.
But you know what, they had fun. They made the
most of the experience. They didn't care they'd picked the
ball up and moved to the next hole. They knew,
you know, they understood that, and they but they just
had the best fun.

Speaker 3 (01:48:53):
And I enjoy it.

Speaker 2 (01:48:53):
And in fact, I enjoyed it sometimes better with them
than I did with some of the guys, because the guys
would get so serious and you know, the throwing that
you want to talk about, snap and shaft, you get
maybe snap it I can't believe I hit that darn
t shot, and you know, and whatever, and the next thing,
you know, the clubheads flying off in the distance. But
you know, so it's all how you approach the game.

(01:49:15):
And I think you know from everything I'm hearing from
you tonight, is you guys at Horseshoe really really want
people to come. And it's not just about great golf. Obviously,
that's a thing that that you're focusing on for for
personal reasons, but you know, it's it's a great resort
for the family. It's a great resort for anybody that
wants to come. There's all kinds of things do, great

(01:49:35):
restaurants there as well, great eating opportunities, and again it's
very very accessible for a lot of people. And it's
it's a big property. It's a lot bigger than what
a lot of people realize.

Speaker 3 (01:49:46):
There's a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:49:47):
I mean, you've got the golf courses, and you've got
the water, and you've got all kinds of things and
a lot of great accommodations to stay at as well.
Any any final thoughts, and we're gonna give them the
websites they can go and check it out and and
start making some of their own arrangements.

Speaker 5 (01:50:01):
You know what I would leave anybody with is that
I You know, as I said before, I'd never heard
of at this place, and for all my entire life,
I always had that sense that, you know, I'm I'm
gonna move on yet I haven't yet found home in
this place. Once you get here, it's so relaxing. You know.
I've got friends and family who come every single year

(01:50:21):
because they you know, some don't even play golf. They
just the vee. It's almost like there's this protective dome
over this wonderful place away from the cruelties of the world.
It's just, it's just it's a magical, magical place where
Shubey is, you know, even without the lake and the golf,
but it has both of them. I would recommend anybody
come to the Texas Hill Country stay at or Shoe

(01:50:42):
Bay if you like wineries. There are dozens and dozens
of those within a short driving distance, in addition to
all or is to do here at the resort and so.
But but don't take my word for it, check it
out online. Go on there. We've got a world class,
award winning spa in addition to everything else and all
the infant there, and if I can have anybody here
in a golf school, one, two or three day golf school,

(01:51:04):
which is a fine accompaniment to a vacation, I think
I think it'd.

Speaker 3 (01:51:07):
Be worth Awhile, yeah, no excuses for your golf game.

Speaker 2 (01:51:11):
You've got an opportunity to work with Bobby and his
group out at Horseshoe Bay.

Speaker 3 (01:51:16):
All right.

Speaker 2 (01:51:17):
If you want to get more information, go to Hsbresort
dot com dot www dot HSB Resort dot com. All
of the information there, all about the golf courses, all
kinds of things. Plan your trip, reach out to the
staff there, and I'm sure they'll help make a great
trip for you, whether it's a golf trip or whether
you just want to go out there and enjoy some
of the other amenities that they have to offer. Just

(01:51:37):
go to Hsbresort dot com. Bobby, I want to thank
you very very much. I'm excited. I can't wait to
come out there. I have not been there yet, but
I've heard a lot about it and I've been meaning
to come out and unfortunately this year I'm not going
to be able to make it, but I'm coming next year.
I don't care if I got a walk. I'm coming
next year, so I'll make sure that I get in
touch with you. Hang on tight for real second, Bobby,

(01:51:59):
I'm gonna close up here on the show. I want
to thank everybody for tuning in to AN and Golf
Talk Live. A special thanks to my earlier guest Jim
Ndicott for joining me on the Coach's Corner panel, and
also for my good friend and co host, travel expert
Robert Kaufman, alongside this evening's special travel guest from Gamble Sands,
Blake Froling. Thank you Blake for joining me as well,

(01:52:21):
and obviously a special thanks to my future guest of
the night, director of golf Instruction at the Horseshee Bay
Resort in Texas, Bobby Steiner.

Speaker 3 (01:52:27):
Bobby again, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:52:28):
It's been a pleasure and I will see all of
you guys next week right here on Golf Talk Live.
God bless everybody and have a great weekend.

Speaker 1 (01:52:40):
Thanks for joining us. We hope you enjoyed this week's
broadcast of Golf Talk Live. We'd like to thank this
week's Coaches Corner panel and a special thank you to
tonight's guest. Remember to join Ted every Thursday from six
to eight pm Central on Golf Talk Live, and be
sure to follow Ted on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. If

(01:53:00):
you're interested in being a guest on Golf Talk Live,
send Ted an email at Ted dot golf Talklive at
gmail dot com. This has been a production of the
Igolf Sports Network.

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Golf Talk Live - Season 13 Episode 19 | August 7th, 2025

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Golf Talk Live - Season 13 Episode 19 | August 7th, 2025