Golf Talk Live - Season 13 Episode 23 | Sept 12th, 2025 - Golf Talk Live

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
The following broadcast is brought to you by the I
Golf Sports Network. Golf Talk Live is sponsored by the
I Golf Sports Network and Golf Tips Magazine. Here's Andrew
to tell you more about our sponsors. I Golf Sports
is a live stream broadcast and media production company providing
quality programming designed to attract the golfing enthusiast and Golf Tips,

(00:32):
the game's most in depth instruction magazine, including reviews on
the latest equipment, tips from top teaching professionals, all designed
to help you improve from tee to green. Welcome to
Golf Talk Live with your host.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Ted Oto Rico.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
Join Ted each week as he speaks with some of
the best in golf. This week's special guest will join
us a bit later. But first up is another great
discussion on Coach's Corner, So let's introduce tonight's coaches Corner Panel.

Speaker 3 (01:04):
Good evening, everybody, and welcome to Season thirteen of Golf
Talk Live. I'm your host, Heedo Rico. We've got a
great show for you tonight, joined here by a couple
of great guys. The two John's are joining me tonight
on the Coach's Corner panel, and then a little bit
later on, I'm gonna be joined by Bob Foreman. He's
gonna be talking about forearms and wrist tonight, what we
can do to get those strengthened up a little bit

(01:25):
to help us with our golf game. And then finally,
I'm going to be speaking with tonight's featured guest more
in Batha. He is the CEO of John Doe the USA.
He'll be joining me on the latter part of the show.
On that note, let me introduce the guys on the
Coaches Corner panel. Don't forget if you want to tune
into this episode or any of the other episodes, you
can go to the IGL Sports channel, or you can

(01:47):
go to Spotify dot com. The audio version US also
is available at speaker dot com or wherever you listen
to podcasts, And don't forget to subscribe on any of
the channels when you're there, so you'll see and listen
to any new episodes a drop weekly. All right, So,
as I mentioned, I got a couple of great guys
to John's joining me here on the Coach's Corner panel.
John Hughes first up, PJA Master Professional and the past

(02:09):
president of the North Florida PJ Section and recipient of
the twenty thirteen PG of America's Professional Development Award, and
he was also in twenty sorry two thousand and nine,
twenty twenty three the North Florida PJ Teacher and Coach
of the Year, and as a Golf Digest Best in
State Instructor from twenty twenty three to present. He's also
senior contributing editor and Top twenty five instructor with Golf

(02:31):
Tips Magazine, also the other John John Decker. He's a
director of instruction at the Medallion Club in Columbus, Ohio,
and he too is a senior contributing editor in Top
twenty five Excuse me instructor with Golf Tips Magazine. He
was also the twenty fifteen Southern Ohio Teacher of the Year,
and he's the author of two books, Golf Is My Life,

(02:51):
Glorifying God through the Game and Fairways to Heaven One
Shot at a Time. And he's also available for public
speaking upon request. Guys, welcome to Coach's Corner.

Speaker 4 (03:02):
Thank you, Ted.

Speaker 5 (03:03):
Thanks Ted.

Speaker 3 (03:05):
All right, pardon me, excuse me, so we're gonna talk
about I actually had somebody ask me this the other
day and I thought, boy, this would be something we
haven't talked about this before. We've touched on a few things.
Let me just grab a forgive me, guys, I'm the
heavy stuff. Then yeah, yeah, he's going to the heavy stuff.
So yeah, no, I'm just doing the light stuff here.

(03:25):
I gotta I got too much talking to you tonight.
So I had somebody ask me the other day and
they said, what are what are some of the some
of the hardest or most difficult uh shots that are
out there? Uh, and what are causing them? Some of
the most common swing flaws, if you will. Poor posture
is certainly affecting balance and rotation over the top swing

(03:49):
path that certainly leads to slices and poor weight transfer,
that sort of thing, open club face and uh, you know,
sort of hanging back, if you will.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
And we're gonna talk about few of those tonight.

Speaker 3 (04:01):
There's many many other things that we could we could discuss,
but I thought we would bring that in. So I'm
going to start in the order I introduced to you. So,
mister Hughes, I'm going to do you guys by your
last name. So poor posture, first off, what is it
when we're talking about posture in the golf swing, and
what are your recommendations? How do you go about fixing

(04:22):
somebody that you clearly identified as having some poor posture
in their swing?

Speaker 5 (04:26):
So, first off, JD. John, good to see you again,
looking forward to this this time together again, Ted, thanks
for the opportunity. Is always let's take it in a
layman's term posture. What most people believe is posture is
somebody walking down the street and they're all slumped over,
or they can't hold themselves upright, or when it comes

(04:52):
to dancing that the person isn't just nice and erect
and very statue asked for the golfer. We think of
posture a couple of different ways. The first way I
would describe it is where your body is hinging, shoulders
are hinging, hips are hinging, knees are hinging, And to

(05:16):
the lay person, you're looking at that and probably asking
the question subliminally can I tip that person over? And
if you can tip them over, then we got a
postural problem. But it goes beyond that, it goes into balance.
So when I'm with my clients, I'm not necessarily using
the term posture. I'm using the term balance quite a

(05:36):
bit because without static balance, we can't stand, we can't sit,
we can't do a lot of things. Golf and every
other movement requires dynamic balance, and you've got to set
yourself up for that to happen, unlike other sports where
you're reacting, and dynamic balance and posture just happen, and
it happens organically based on how your body is built

(05:59):
and what it can and can't do. So I'm always
asking my golfers from the waist down, can you feel
your feet flat? Can you feel them fifty to fifty
as a starting point, and can you feel your right
side and your left side fifty to fifty? Most people
can't do that, And when I have them shut their eyes,

(06:21):
all of a sudden they have to feel it, and
they have this wow feeling. Wow, I didn't know I
was over till this way or till do that way.
It's just a reference point to start and from there,
if I can get them to gently hinge their knees
more bouncy, can I get them to reach down as

(06:41):
if they're holding a golf club from the hips just
a simple bed, Then all of a sudden we're going
to create better balance, which in turn creates the better posture.
The other thing I think that affects posture right away
that most people discredit is where you're aiming. And what
I see is that when somebody's aiming really hard right

(07:04):
for the right hander, they'll get a more slump posture.
And as soon as we get them aim better, all
of a sudden, they start standing taller or what is
perceived to be better posture. That that's why I'm always
starting with aim. But as far as posture goes, I
think if the average person thought of it as balance

(07:25):
and started it as balance and then hinge not overly aggressive,
We're not textbook. Let's sit down on a bar stoolard
or lean over a barstool. Just set up athletically and
comfortably in a balanced position. You'll set your posture up
pretty well for almost any shot you'll hit.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
Yeah, great, great points.

Speaker 3 (07:46):
You know, I think a lot of times I think
people try to force themselves into a certain position, you know,
trying to arch the back a certain way or un
arched or what have you. You know, I see a
lot of people they've been taught for years to feel
like they're sitting down to our stool and they're you
know they're sticking their back end out a little bit
too much, and the next thing you know, they've got
this big curve in their spine and they're not really

(08:06):
an athletic or comfortable position. So you have to be
very relaxed. I agree with with everything you said. I
think it's uh, it's a process that can be a
lot simpler. Or all of our body styles and types
are different from one another, so what might work for
you might not work for JD and and may not
work for me, just given the differences in our sizes
and shapes.

Speaker 5 (08:25):
And so I start with balance because everybody can balance.
You don't have to buy any methodology for for posture.
Find a good balance, and you're going to find your
good posture. It's going to work whether you're a big, tall,
any any shape or size.

Speaker 3 (08:42):
I think that's some sound advice. And uh, and well said,
I think I'm gonna go with JD as well. I
think that I just got a new way to alleviate
the two John's. So I'm gonna call you JD from
now on. Then we'll know which one we're dealing with.
So for this one here, what I want you to

(09:03):
talk about is a lot of people have sort of
that over the top swing path, if you will, They
get to you know, where they feel like they're getting
a pretty good backswing, but then for something seems to
disconnect and might be because of balance, could be some
other things. And the next thing, you know, for right
handed golfers, that right shoulder comes popping out and they're
cutting across the ball and all kinds of funky things happen.

(09:24):
So first off, talk about really what we're really meaning
when we say over the top, and what are some
things that cause that first off, and then also what
are some things that we can do to help golfers
out there to sort of correct that and get them
swing on the right path.

Speaker 6 (09:43):
Well, Ted, thanks again for having me on the show,
and John, as always, I'm enjoyed, always learn something every
time I'm on with you.

Speaker 4 (09:51):
Over the Top.

Speaker 6 (09:52):
The first thing that I do is let me explain
what over the top is. First of all, it's when
the club shaft is coming in too steeply, and it
can be he calls by a lot of different things,
but the number one reason why I see people come
over the top, and the number one reason that when
I was taught, when I was working at Grand Cyprus
is because of an open club face. The club face

(10:13):
gets open, and there's a lot of different ways, but
it usually starts with the grip. Sometimes you can have
a good grip and roll the club back where you
get the clubs too far to the inside, and when
the club goes inside, it's like it's like a rope swing.
If there's a rope swing and there's a tire and
you're sitting on that and that tire and I swing
it to the right, you're gonna go around and you're

(10:35):
gonna come all the way back around to my left.
You're not gonna come straight back. You're gonna The golf
swing's the same way. So if you go way inside,
the club's gonna come way outside. And normally this happens
because of the open club face. And open club face
is going to cause the ball for a right handed golfer.

Speaker 4 (10:51):
To go to the right.

Speaker 6 (10:53):
So if your ball is going to go to the right,
then instinctively you're gonna start swinging to the left. And
so if I can get someone's hands on the club
properly and get the grip right and they have an
over the top swing, and it is because of their
club face getting open. They are going to Eventually. It
might happen in the first lesson, it might happen in
the second lesson, But eventually they're gonna start hitting dead

(11:14):
pulls where the ball is. They're gonna hit these really
solid shots and the ball is going to go way
left of the target. Then we change their swing path.
If you try to change your swing path and you're
coming over the top and you have not addressed the
club face, you are going to shank it. You are
going to have all kinds of problems. So you don't
put the cart before the horse. You must have the

(11:36):
club face correct before you ever change your swing path.
So if a person is swinging thirty yards left of
their target, I want their ball going thirty yards left
of the target. I don't want their swing going thirty
yards left and their ball going sixty yards to the right.
So I want their ball to go where their swing
is going. If they're swinging to the right of their target,

(11:57):
then I want their ball to go to the right
of the target. So I always want the ball flight
to match the divot, and that is directly related to
the club face. So get the club face correct, and
I would recommend to all of you at once a year,
and Jack Nicholas used to do this every year with
Jack Grout when he was on the PGA tour. Is
have a lesson at the beginning of the season. Go

(12:19):
to your local PGA for Golf professional and say, I
want you to look at my grip. I just want
you to look at my grip. It could be a
fifteen minute lesson, a thirty minute lesson. Get your grip right,
and you're going to start getting your swing path right.
You will instinctively do that. There are other reasons why
you can come over the top. Obviously, uneven lies the
way you're built, if you're using your upper body too much.

(12:41):
There's a lot of reasons, but it all goes back
to the club face. And so get that right and
you'll be able to solve that problem.

Speaker 3 (12:48):
Well said, and you know, there's always I think one
of the biggest mistakes that a lot of amateurs fall
or the trap that they fall into, is they don't
really isolate what the cause is. And you can't come
up with a solution if you don't know what's causing
the problem. So they're trying to rework everything else. I've

(13:10):
watched people.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
It's interesting.

Speaker 3 (13:11):
I've watched people on the range and I have to
snicker a little bit to myself when I say this,
But you know, I will see them and they'll have
one very simple thing that needs to be adjusted, and
I'll stand back and I'll watch them, and I will
see them literally rebuild their entire swing in a matter
of ten minutes, and what might have been a very
simple fix that could have been just a minor tweak,

(13:33):
now becomes a major problem. And what are they doing
if they're working with some of their going back and
they're saying, Hey, John JD.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
You know, I don't know what happened. I was up
at the range. I was hitting some.

Speaker 3 (13:42):
Pretty good shots. I started leaking a little bit to
the right, or I was, you know, pulling a little bit.
So I made a few adjustments and now it's all
over the place. Well, now you're back to square one.
You got to sit and figure out why. You know,
what they're doing, and then they just don't seem to
understand that. You know, there is a cause and effect,
but you have to find out what is causing the
issue that you're having and get to the root. Cause

(14:02):
it's you know, It just makes me laugh when I
see people doing that, because I can just tell the
wheels are turning and they're thinking, Okay, well if I
do this, and I see people opening closing their stance,
and I see them tilting more, and you know, doing this,
leaning this way, leaning that way, and it's just next thing.
You know, there's about forty things that they've just changed.
And really maybe it was just as you said, it
could have been just a grip. So just wanted to

(14:24):
throw that in there. So for you guys tuning into
the show and those of you later on that'll tune
into the show, you need to go and see your
PGA professional and get things looked at properly. Don't try
to monkey around with your swing yourself. Just get it
dealt with.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
John.

Speaker 3 (14:41):
I want to come back to you and and we've
been talking about balance and that and another big problem
that a lot of people have is a poor weight transfer.
They don't seem to understand that you have to transfer
your weight to some degree. Now, there's different ways, people
have different ways of addressing that. Talk about typically, and

(15:01):
as I mentioned very early on when I was sort
of going through some of the things, we're going to
discuss is you see a lot of people hanging back,
especially in the follow through the sort of falling back
or hanging back, and they're not really transferring their weight properly.
So what are some of the causes of that, and
what can we do to help them do a better
weight transfer.

Speaker 5 (15:19):
So let's deal with the causes first, probably at the
very beginning level, why are you hanging back? Is intuitively
your brain saying, well, if I hang back, my club's
going to open up and now the ball is gonna
fly high. Not necessarily true. Why do some other causes?
Maybe you have an impairment that prohibits you from making
that weight transfer and in turn of rotation around your spine,

(15:43):
around your core. Most of the time, when I see
somebody who's hanging back, it's a combination of three things.
It's they're trying to make the ball go up in
the air. Intuitively, that's what they're trying. That's what they'll
do is hang back. They're trying to add loft to
the club same time, and that's the easier thing to
do because they've been told not to flip their hands

(16:05):
or whatever. And to John's point, that's a grip issue
as well, the third thing is they don't know any better.
They're not putting two and two together because they're so
used to doing something intuitively and reactively that whether they're
throwing a ball in baseball or football, or they're a

(16:28):
hockey player and they're hitting a slap shot, or they're
a basketball player and they're taking a jump shot, they're
always moving forward. But because that ball sitting still, they
don't know any better. They're not thinking about that. So
one of the first things I get people to understand
that are having a hard time conceptualizing and or from

(16:51):
a coordination standpoint of view, make the weight shift is
ask them if they're going to hit at the ball
or hit through the ball. And we've got to get
them to hit through the ball. And in order for
them to hit through the ball, they can't do it
leaning back, they can't do it with an open club face.
They can't do it because the ball sitting still. They're

(17:12):
going to have to make that move through, which in
turn creates that weight shift. At the beginning, we don't care.
I don't care. Is it a weight shift from the
top first, from the bottom first. Just getting them the
weight shift is key. If they can do it and
show some coordination. Then I'll typically tie everybody's hands behind

(17:36):
their back and ask them to take their rear knee,
their back knee, in my case, my right knee, and
can I literally turn around my spine and get my
right knee to touch my left knee. And then all
of a sudden, the light bulbs go off and they
realize that a weight transfer starts at the beginning of

(17:57):
the swing getting backwards. Because they can't, they have a
very hard time from a stand still getting that over there.
You'll always see somebody that they got their hands behind
them and they'll go back first to go forward, and
all of a sudden, the light bulbs go off, combining, Hey,
it's got to be a through with what that feeling is.

(18:18):
It's it's always been my go to as a coach
unless there's a physical impairment that prevents somebody from doing that.

Speaker 2 (18:25):
Right and there.

Speaker 3 (18:26):
And and that's a great point because obviously with a
lot of our veterans, we have some that that have
issues that deal with and and there's ways around that.
There's ways of of model making modifications to accommodate, you know,
whether it's a no limb or or something that that
they're having to deal with. So that's a that's a
great point. I want to ask you guys question John,

(18:47):
j D. Excuse me before I come back to you.
I want to ask both of you a question. I'm
going to start first with you JD, and then I'm
going to come back to you John. Do you think
when it comes to to instruction in general, do you
think that there has been and I'm talking about overtime
that they're on behalf of the student that there's been
a misunderstanding of what we've are trying to explain, like

(19:08):
when we're explaining certain things, you know, keeping your head
still and this that they're taking sometimes maybe too literal,
or they're not understanding the concept that we're trying to explain.
I'm not talking about getting into all the details of
the swing, but I'm just talking to generality. Do you
think that there's been a misunderstanding over time in golf
instruction by the students because they just don't really understand

(19:30):
what it is we're trying to say to them. Maybe
because of the lingo that we've used for many years.
I know it's changed a lot in the last uh,
you know, especially ten years but you know, twenty thirty
years ago we used a lot different lingo than we're
using out the lesson tea right now. So what are
your thoughts JD? And then John, I want to get
your thoughts as well.

Speaker 6 (19:47):
I definitely think that there's a lot of misunderstandings out there.
I'm utterly amazed when you go to the driving range,
people who are very successful, people who charge a lot
of money for what they do, want to give free
advice and and.

Speaker 4 (20:01):
They want to help.

Speaker 6 (20:02):
I am utterly amazed every time I play with a
group of people how one person will start trying to
help another person and they're giving them information that's totally wrong.
And I don't go into an accountant's office and start
telling people how to do accounting because I would be
that would be I don't know that field. So whether
it's you know, with the internet now and being able

(20:23):
to go on YouTube and all the different platforms and
gather information, that's great. I mean the people out there
who are who watching the show are going to get
really good information. But you can't just take that information
and start giving it to other people. So or you
it's best to take that information and bounce it off
your local pros. You know, again, go into a PGA

(20:46):
golf professional and go to them and say, you know, uh,
you know, uh, you know, last night I heard John
Hughes talking about, you know, the weight shift, and you know,
what are some drills that I could do for that.
I think that would be better to have a filter
where you're gonna be doing something that it's in line
with what your pros trying to get you to do.
And that's one of the reasons why I developed my
website is because I wanted my students to have a

(21:07):
consistent message. I don't want them listening to fifteen different
pros on YouTube. So to answer your question, I definitely
think that there's with technology now and all the information
out there, I think that people are more confused than
ever when they come into a lesson, and they usually
come to me when they're at the bottom, when they
you know, I'm like, don't why don't you catch me

(21:28):
on the way down, not when you're at the bottom.
So they say, well, I'm going to go to John
now it's my last resort, or I'm going to sell
my clubs on eBay. I actually had a student tell
me that yesterday and then after the lesson, he was like, Wow,
this went a lot better than I thought it was
going to go. And I said, well, if you'd come
to me, you know, six months ago, you probably would
have played a lot better golf this summer. So I
definitely think that you need to leave the information to

(21:49):
the professionals. But there's definitely, from a student's perspective, a
lot a lot of misinformation out there.

Speaker 3 (21:54):
Well information overload too, and you know, I think for
a lot of instructors that's what you're talking about is
challenging as well. And John, I'm going to come to
you here in just a second, but you know, because
there is a lot of information coming now at your fingertips,
and you know, there are some great information by other
fellow pros that we all know and and you know

(22:16):
we may or you know, not agree one hundred percent
with everything, but we certainly understand that, you know, that
certain methodology might be sound. But then again, when you're
when you're trying to make these adjustments as a player
as an amateur, and you're listening to one guy this week,
and you know, you got another guy and then your
pros telling you something, and you've got so many messages
coming in, you have to have that conversation. So John,

(22:37):
I'm gonna come to you is I think that's really
the crux of it. I think as more and more detail,
more and more information has become available through social media
or what have you, that we really need to make
sure that we're having a conversation with a student. And
that doesn't mean we can't talk about things that they've
seen or heard or witnessed or what have you, but
I think that conversation needs to be take place. What

(22:59):
do you think about the whole discussion with respect to that?

Speaker 2 (23:04):
Are you do not agree?

Speaker 7 (23:05):
Or you know?

Speaker 5 (23:06):
I agree? I agree. I've just got so many different
things going through my head here to figure out where
do I start with this? And I think where I
want to start is there's how many different countries around
the world that speak how many different languages? And what
our job as a coach, is a golf coach, or

(23:27):
a coach of any sport or any profession, should be
to find out what's the language that person is speaking. Now,
I don't mean that literally. What I mean by that
is an accountant's going to have a certain vocabulary and
a certain way of describing certain things. Can I, as
a coach understand what they're saying, not as an accountant,

(23:49):
but as a golfer, realizing that up here they're an
account Yeah, And can I word things in a way
that doesn't create infusion for them in relation to what
we're doing right now? Now I'm gonna go I'm going
to go back to a statement you made earlier, Ted,

(24:10):
and I summarize this for somebody earlier this week about
tweaking and so forth, and it just compounded the problem.
And the person kept coming back to me saying, I
just don't understand why I'm not consistent. I said, do
you realize you just spoke out of both sides of
your mouth? You said you're tweaking and now you want consistency.

(24:31):
Those are two opposites. What are you going to do?
What are we going to do here? And how do
we want to do it? And what we came to
the agreement on was labeling correctly, not for me, not
for JD, not for you, labeling correctly for that person,
which goes back to the accounting idea that I was

(24:52):
trying to toss out there. I think it's up to
us as coaches, because there is no stand There are
no stand hundreds of flex from company to company, there's
no standard of labeling from book to book, coach to coach,
era to era. Hey, Hogan and Hagen and Henry Cotton,

(25:14):
they probably had different ways of extining impact. Cotton hit
the tire. You know what does that mean? I'm going
to walk down the street and tell somebody hit the tire.
All of a sudden, they're scratching their head. How does
that do?

Speaker 7 (25:28):
Right?

Speaker 5 (25:28):
And go back and read that and you'll understand that's
what they meant by impact. So I think what we
have to do collectively as coaches, and I'm doing that now.
If my staff is saying, look, there's no right or wrong,
I'm going back to my die yesterdays. There's only correct
for the person in front of us, and our job
is to find out beg borrowing and stealing from everything.

(25:52):
What label does that person most associate with that provides
the most efficient pathway, not just for their understanding, but
for their ability of their brain to make happen what
we're asking them to make happen.

Speaker 3 (26:08):
Yeah, those are some great points, and I think it
also really what you're saying too, is it comes down
to learning style. I mean, everybody learns differently. Again, if
you're somebody that's a more technical person, you know, you
can you can get a little bit more into detail
and things like that, and other people just might need
to be shown. Some people sometimes just need you to
show them at what it is that you're wanting to

(26:30):
for them to do. And I don't mean just the
swing itself, but what you're trying to accomplish, so they
can visually sort of put that in their their brain
and you know, mull it over a little bit. And
I know for me that was how I learned most
efficiently all through schools. I needed to you know, I
would even if I was reading a story or something
in school, I would have to visualize it in my
mind to sort of see, okay.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yeah, I got to do that. I've got to move
this over here.

Speaker 3 (26:53):
And that was how I you know, work through my
golf game over the years as well. Somebody else certainly
can benefit from that, but maybe they need something more
like what you're talking about, John. If they're more like
an account where they're a little bit you know, talking
numbers and they're you know, getting in more detail, they
might need to have you go down point by point
and describe what it is that they need to do,
and they can't just you know, do a quick fix

(27:15):
and that sort of thing. So you really have to
understand and get to learn a little bit more about
your student. And you're exactly right, both of you. Is
I think that we have to approach the game much
differently than we have, say, thirty years ago, because it's
I think as we're learning as coaches that not everybody
is the same. We can't put everybody in the same box. Yeah,

(27:37):
there's some consistencies that can parallel from person to person,
but at the end of the day, you've got so
many different styles of not just the swing, but body
types things that have to be factored in. Again, as
I mentioned with the veterans, you know, you've got people
that maybe are missing limbs or have injuries of some
kind and they're having to compensate, so you have to

(27:58):
factor those in. So there's a lot of a lot
of you know, tweaking as the term I was using,
but it has to be done in the right way
and it can't be done off somewhere else. And then
come back, as you pointed out, John, with the confusion
and saying I don't understand why this is happening while
you're tweaking over here and you want to be consistent.
They just don't mix. The opposites don't gel together. It's

(28:20):
like putting two polarized magnets together.

Speaker 8 (28:23):
JD.

Speaker 3 (28:24):
I'm gonna come back to you as we get ready
to get winding up our discussion, and this one here
is really again, this goes to really what we just
talked about, and is shaft lien is. I see a
lot of people, and obviously it's going to vary depending
on the type of shot. But I see some people
they again they hear that you got to get that
shaft lien, and they see examples of it, and the

(28:46):
next thing you know, it's like a forty five degree
angle at address and they're sitting there thinking they're and
they're wondering why they're hitting two inches behind the ball.
So let's parcel that out a little bit. Let's talk
about shaft lien. What are people misunderstanding? First off, what happening,
What are some of the cause and effects, and how
do we help fix that.

Speaker 6 (29:04):
Well, I just had this happen today my very last
lesson this afternoon. Before this, my student was setting up
to the golf ball and their hands were three to
four inches too far in front of the golf ball
at setup, and he said, I don't know why I'm
hitting the ball out to the right.

Speaker 4 (29:22):
So I filmed him.

Speaker 6 (29:23):
I showed him and I said, and he goes, aren't
I supposed to have shaffling? And I said, yes, you
want shaffleing, but you want shaffleing at impact, not it's
set up. So he was putting the cart way before
the horse there. So I showed him where the hand
should be, and I showed him where they are at impacts.
A tour player starts with his hands more let's just

(29:45):
call it a neutral position, where the hands are more
in line with the golf ball with an iron, and
when they swing at impact, their hands are When I
was at Grand Cypress and saw a paint steward, his
hands were almost seven inches in front of the golf
ball it impact, so he could delft his irons and
hit him a long way. It was the first tour

(30:05):
player that I ever got to see take a lesson,
and I was just amazed how far he could hit
his eight iron.

Speaker 4 (30:11):
Well.

Speaker 6 (30:11):
He had a lot of shaft lien. He had a
lot of lateral slide, and he could hit the ball
a long way. Other players who are high ball hitters
may only have that are on tour, may only have
a couple of inches. But the shaft lien does not
happen because of the arms. The shaft lien happens because
of the rotation.

Speaker 4 (30:27):
Of the body.

Speaker 6 (30:28):
And the rotation of the body is what shallows out
the swing and that's what gets the hands more forward,
because when you swing a golf club, you produce centrifugal force.
And centrifical force is me holding a piece of rope
and the rope is hanging down. Well, if I start
swinging that rope like a lasso, that lassa or the
rope rises in the air, that's centrifical force. We all

(30:50):
produce it. A five year old swing in the club produces.
That's why beginners always straighten up when they hit the ball.
That's centrifical force. Their husbands are telling their wives keep
your head now. Keeping your head down is not going
to defy centrifical force. You must have the rotations, kind
of what John was talking about earlier. So the rotation
of the body is what gets the hands and gets

(31:12):
the arms up there and encounters that centrifical force, because
if you don't rotate and you slide or you hang back,
your arms are gonna rise up. You're going to hit
them fat or thin when you do that, or right
or left, depending on what you're doing in your swing.
But the bottom line is to create shaftlene you create
it with rotation. I have a lot of drills on

(31:32):
my website about rotation. I talk about rotation all day long.
It is the engine of the golf swing. We rotate
when we hit a little pitch shot, and we rotate
when we.

Speaker 4 (31:43):
Hit a driver.

Speaker 6 (31:44):
We just do it at different speed. The engine in
my car runs the same in the parking lot as
it does on the interstate, but on the interstate it
runs a lot faster. So my engine is the rotation
of my body. And then I do it at different
speeds and obviously different clubs to produce the schaffling and
get the ball first and get you know, get the
ball going at my target.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
Well said, you know, shaft.

Speaker 3 (32:07):
The whole reason I brought that up was because Shafflee
was a perfect example of what we see so often.
We'll see, you know, and and again I'm not trying
to blame, you know, from an instructional standpoint, but I
even see tour pros talking about this when they go
on and they'll shoot a video and they'll show you say,
well you need to do this, and they'll pre set
that shaffling so that people and people automatically start thinking, Okay,

(32:29):
well I got to do that. And they're doing that
at address. Well, then with a centrifugal force, as I say,
you know, as their their bodies are turning. Now they've
maybe taken a couple of inches of shaffling. Now they've
turned it into six or seven inches, because again, just
the force of the club.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
So you've got to be very careful about that.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
And that's why why I brought up that last part
of the discussion that we were talking about, was because
again there's so much information that's that's going around and
it's not that it's wrong, but it's just it has
to be put in proper context, I guess, is really
what I'm trying to say. And I think once it's done,
and this is really I think one of the reasons
why a lot of people not just so much that

(33:07):
they struggle, but got to a point where.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
They were.

Speaker 3 (33:12):
They got frustrated with the game simply because there was
so much information that they were being given they didn't understand,
and rather than asking questions and saying can you explain that,
or you know, let's have a further discussion, they just
went on the assumption.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
Okay, yeah, okay, I know.

Speaker 3 (33:28):
I don't want to I don't want to look stupid
and ask John you know what he meant by that.
So I'm just gonna bluff my way through it. And
or they see something online and do that. So I mean,
it's just again, it all boils down to, you know,
as our mutual panelist Pete Buchanan always says, you know,
as he winds up in his Coaches Corner seven, and
he always says, let's have a conversation. And that's really

(33:50):
what it boils down to is let's have a conversation.
Let's figure out what the problems are, Let's look at
some solutions, and you know, quit trying to tweak and
adjust do all these things on your own. Let's get
you down a good path and get out there. And
as you say, John, let's have some fun so great discussion. Guys,
I'm going to cut it a little short tonight. Give

(34:11):
you guys a break and get out there and do
things that you want to do. It's coming into a weekend,
so I'm going to give each of you an opportunity
to let the folks know if they want to reach out,
if there's anything special that you'd like to plug.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
I'll give you a few extra moments to do that.
So mister Hughes, you go first.

Speaker 5 (34:26):
First off again, Ted. Always a great opportunity, and the
new platform is just awesome. People get to see me
talk with my hands now, which is really cool. Jd
Ad time. Oh yeah, oh yeah, I drink the hard stuff.

Speaker 8 (34:43):
Lady always by the way, people.

Speaker 5 (34:46):
He is no, no, not not until I'm off, not
until I'm done. But you always tell me, and I
appreciate this compliment. They always learn something. When we're on
together and I have to meet you, we say the
same thing. And it's great to hear some of the
things you hear you say because it reminds me of

(35:06):
some times I've spent with a mutual mentor. And that's
Fred Griffin, who's worth the shout out. When you want
to find me, I'm in Orlando for the most part.
Look me up at John hughesgolf dot Com social media
by the same moniker. I'm a couple of announcements. I'm
going for a guest residency, I guess, is what you'd

(35:30):
call it, and it's going to become pretty much a
permanent fixture once in the spring, once in the fall,
and that's to a sister Omni property homestead in Hot Springs, Virginia.
I'll be up there through the twenty seven from the
twenty seventh September through about the sixteenth of October. I
still have some very small windows of opportunity that if

(35:51):
you want to come see me there, you can still
get in and visit America's oldest resort seventeen sixty six
in years predating the Declaration of Independence. Who knew there
was a resort during that time? I hope the horses
had one too. But I'm about to join the ranks

(36:12):
of Ted and JD. I'll announce it here first sometime
by the end of the month. Will be the first
of three books that I'll be publishing under the main
title of Instant Golf Improvement. And before you get your
hopes up too high, there's no such thing as instant
that goes along with improvement unless you've got Cheech and

(36:35):
Shawn's magic Dustiny the reindeer fly during the Christmas holiday skit.
But I think for the beginners out there, for the
people with limited time, for the people who have limited capabilities,
this series of books is I'm hoping to be groundbreaking
for those golfers who live in the present and want

(36:56):
something yesterday, not today. The first of the trilogy should
be out by the end of the month with a
total relaunch of that website, Instant Golfimprovement dot com, along
with some other offerings there. I'm really excited. There's a
lot going on here in Orlando with them. I'm sure
there will be more to talk about the next time

(37:17):
I'm on next month.

Speaker 2 (37:18):
Perfect Well, I'm excited for you as well. JD.

Speaker 3 (37:21):
Go ahead, how can they reach you and anything that
you'd like to let the listeners know about.

Speaker 4 (37:27):
Well.

Speaker 6 (37:27):
Once again, Ted, thanks for having us on tonight, and John,
as always, congratulations first of all on the I knew
you had something in the works, but this is the
first I've heard about it. And congratulations on the new
gig as well at Hot Springs. So if the listeners
out there weren't get in touch with me. The best
way is to go on my website decorgolf dot com.
On there, I've got my video library and I've got

(37:49):
videos from full swing all the way to golf fitness,
and there's eight different categories. You can also reach me
on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube and LinkedIn and then if you
are on YouTube, please subscribe to my channel.

Speaker 4 (38:05):
It's John Decker Golf Instruction.

Speaker 6 (38:07):
I've got over five hundred videos on there, so they're
very short videos, but there are, you know, some great
tips and some ways to get a consistent message.

Speaker 4 (38:19):
My two books, Golf Is My Life.

Speaker 6 (38:21):
Glorifying God through the Game and Fairways to Heaven One
Shot at a Time are golf Christian books. And if
you're looking for a speaker like at churches or golf events,
golf tournament's charity events, I've done really all of those.

Speaker 4 (38:36):
I'd love to come to your community.

Speaker 6 (38:38):
I'm willing to travel to speak and you know, help
you to raise money or whatever the worthwhile organizations is.
After but Ted, thanks again for having us on and
it's a great show tonight, and I really love the
new format. I think it's just been a great upgrade.
And congratulations again.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
Well it's still a work in progress, but thank you guys.
I'm good, have to.

Speaker 3 (39:02):
Yeah, exactly, but I appreciate it always, guys, love having
you guys on. It's hard to believe we're in season
thirteen and we're gonna be wanting that down in a
couple of months and we'll be into season fourteen. And
I think it's if I'm not mistaken, I think it
was about two years. It was about the second year
in that I was doing this that we brought Coach's
Corner and you were on pretty much for the beginning,

(39:23):
and then JD You came on just a year or
two after that and started working with us here as well.
So we really love this all the guys coming in,
and I think they're excited each season when the new
schedule comes out just get signed up. And definitely an
audience favorites having you guys on, and I enjoy it,
and there's many others that are contributing to the panel

(39:45):
of course each and every month. But thank you guys
as well. Have a great weekend, and I will see
you next time here on the Coach's Corner panel. And
I'm going to take a quick commercial break and I'll
be joined by my good friend Bob Foreman, goll fitness professional,
and we're going to see if we can help your
am getting into shape.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
So we'll be right back.

Speaker 3 (40:47):
Welcome back, everybody, and I'm excited to have joined me
once again my very good friend and golf fitness expert,
Bob Foreman. Bob was the former director of Fitness and
Wellness for the Congressional Country Club in Bethesda, Maryland. He's
also internationally known as a leader in the field of
golf fitness. His programs have been recognized multiple years by
the Golf Fitness Association of America and he holds a

(41:08):
Master of Science degree in Exercise physiology and is a
certified golf Fitness instructor through Titleist Performance Insuite or TPI
and also the Great Institute.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
So Bob, welcome back.

Speaker 8 (41:20):
Thank thanks to always a pleasure in being here.

Speaker 2 (41:23):
I appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (41:24):
And I'm going to what I'm going to do is
I'm going to pop up before we get into our questions.
I'm going to pop up. I put together a little
clip of some photos. Actually it's into a little video,
and what I'm going to do is get this thing
going here. Where are we okay? So what I'm going

(41:44):
to do is I'm going to stop it. So here's
the first one. Explain what we're this is risk, I know,
is a risk function that we're going to do a
risk exercise.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
So try to sort of.

Speaker 3 (41:55):
Lay it out, if you will, what we're looking at,
and then I'll advance it to the next next line.

Speaker 8 (42:01):
Yeah, well, there's not really a whole lot written about
forearm strength for the golf swing. You know, there's a
lot of focus obviously on the core and on shoulders
and biceps and triceps and legs and all that kind
of stuff. But I mean, you know, if you're swinging
the golf club, you know, the average swing speed for
males is what around ninety to one hundred miles an
hour for the average amateur. For women, it's somewhere in

(42:24):
the ballpark of seventy to eighty miles per hour. So
I mean, you have to have some decent grip strength
to hold on to the club. Plus, the forearms are
important to maintain balance within the wrist, the elbow, and
the shoulder. You know, a lot of us tend to
be stronger on the grip side of our forearm because
we're constantly gripping things, but we're not doing a whole

(42:45):
lot for the backside the extensors. So it helps with
the grip, it helps with shot making, and it will
help prevent injury to all those areas the wrist and
the elbow and the shoulders. So this picture here is
the start of an exercise called wrist abduction abd uc

(43:07):
tion because you have abduction and adduction. Adduction is bringing
towards the midline of the body. Abduction is going away
from the mid line. And when you're swinging a golf club,
I mean as you bring that club back, Yeah, you're
doing flection and an extension, but you're also doing the
adduction and abduction part, probably even a little bit more

(43:29):
so than the flection extension. So it would be to
the golfer's advantage to strengthen those muscles responsible for adduction abduction. So,
as I mentioned, this one is the start for a
BD abduction. You can use a golf club, you can
use a weighted bar, anything that will provide resistance, and

(43:53):
this is the starting position. Basically, you want to hold
I'm holding my left arm to my side and the
arm is straight and you want to cement it there
you want to keep it nice and solid right up
against your body. And what you're gonna do is, I'm
just going to take the head of the club and
just lift it up and down, up and down, and

(44:13):
I think the second picture there you go. So you're
bringing it up as high as comfort allows, and then
you bring it back down and that'll work. Like I say,
the muscles on the outer part of the forearm, the adductors.
Good exercise do while you're waiting to hit your next shot,
you know, while you're waiting for the group up in
front of it. But this is an area that unfortunately

(44:37):
a lot of golfers aren't aware of the fact that
they should be strengthening this particular area. But here's a
great exercise to help you work on those particular muscle groups.

Speaker 3 (44:48):
And this just so that people understand that you're going
to actually alternate and do the other side as well. Correct,
You're not just gonna do the left side.

Speaker 8 (44:55):
Yeah, yeah, you want Otherwise you walk around lopside and
you have a big forum, you'd be like a bowler.
But you know, ten to fifteen to twenty reps up
and down, nice, slow and steady, and with the golf
club if you're using or a pole weighted pull, the
further you go out on towards the end of the

(45:16):
club or the pole, the more resistance you're gonna get.
So in this example, I mean you could grip just
on the underside of the grip to start off, and
as the strength develops, so you can let more club
out or more poll out to provide more resistance.

Speaker 3 (45:34):
Yeah, and if you're gonna use a poll too, just
I just want to as a disclaimer, I just want
to make sure that people this is not about you're
not trying to lift a heavy weight, and that's why
golf club is the perfect thing really to use. But
if you don't, and we're gonna just can see the
next exercise here that we're gonna get you to describe.
So let me just advance it to the next one
and then you can talk about This is another example
if you don't have a golf club handy, so here

(45:54):
you're doing something different.

Speaker 2 (45:55):
Let's explain this one here.

Speaker 8 (45:57):
Yeah, this is for the adductors, the the inside part
of the forearm, and again, any resistance, anything that's going
to provide resistance while you're tapping sort of speak, you know,
the bar the club the pole will help to condition
those muscle groups. So this is kind of opposite of

(46:19):
what I did with the golf club. So now I'm
holding most of the weighted object, the club or the
pole or this in this case the bar out you know,
holding the end of it. And this time I'm going
to tap to the back. So I'm gonna make like
I'm tapping the end of that bar to the floor
and then lifting it up by you know, flexing the wrist,

(46:41):
by adducting the wrist, and you would just go up
and down nice, slow and steady, just like you did
with the abduction and ten to fifteen to twenty reps
is really all you need. You'll you'll fatigue out, you'll
feel this one, but again it's it's a good one,
especially for the GOP.

Speaker 3 (46:59):
Would you reckon for people that maybe have not done
this to maybe and I mean ten, you know, ten, fifteen,
twenty may not seem like a lot, but for somebody
that's maybe never especially some of our older senior golfers,
maybe they might want to just start off and see
how they feel. Do five, six or seven to start
off with and work their way up and just to

(47:20):
make sure because the last thing you want to do
is create a risk injury or anything. And I know
this is not heavy weights, but would you recommend that
maybe just the first couple of times that you do it,
just maybe don't do the full twenty fifteen twenty reps
or what do you think?

Speaker 8 (47:34):
Yeah? Definitely. I mean, just like with any type of
strength exercise, you want to start off easy and progress up.
So it's always better to go a lot easier than
you think in terms of the resistance. And then as
the strength does you do get gains in the strength,
you can increase the resistance or the number of reps.

(47:54):
So you know, and again these are great exercises to
help things like golfer's elbow and stuff like that. You know,
it's one thing you don't want to suffer because golfer's
elbow on the medial side of the elbow or tennis
elbow on the outside just hangs around forever, and you know,
you definitely want to prevent it so you don't want

(48:16):
to have to rehab it.

Speaker 3 (48:17):
Yeah, that's why I wanted to mention that, just so
that people understand that, you know, you want to go easy.
So we're gonna move on to the next exercise. So
here you've got a couple of light weights in your hands.
So what are you getting ready to do here? And
what's the exercise? And I know there's a couple of
vent and hopefully I got them in the right order
that you want to It doesn't matter.

Speaker 8 (48:34):
You're going up and down, so it doesn't matter. But
for the flexers on the underside of the forearm, you know,
the stronger part, and basically, you know, just taking a
light weight and just supporting the forearms on a shelf
or a chair or something and just moving the hands
up and down again as far as comfort allows, just

(48:55):
to work the underside those flexers in the forum. And
again you know, as you mentioned, you want to go
easy with the weight. You don't want to put a
lot of stress on the elbows and such. So three pounds,
five pounds is a good weight to start with, and
as the strength gets better, you can move up seven pounds.
I would move up in smaller increments. I wouldn't go

(49:18):
from five to ten pounds. I'd go from five to
seven and then you know, maybe to ten. But you're
not going to really use a whole lot of weight.
And this one will be easier than the risk extension,
which I think you probably have next pictures.

Speaker 3 (49:34):
Let me just see what we've got next here. So
we've got this one here, there's a reflection. Yeah, and
let me see what we've got on the next one here.

Speaker 8 (49:46):
Yeah, and there's your extension. So again, palms up for
the flection, palms down for the extension. So again you're
just going up and down as far as comfort allows.
With the weight, you're going to feel this on the
top part your forearm that's working those extensors, and again
that tends to be the weaker side of the two,
so you may want to dictate the weight by how

(50:09):
much you can do on this particular exercise versus the flightsers.

Speaker 3 (50:14):
So I just want to clarify so people really understand
this the importance of why you want to do this.
Obviously you want to build strength and things like that.
But this is a great point that you're making here
because a lot of times, as you mentioned underneath here,
on this side of the forearm usually typically is very
very strong. It's not so much on the other and
that confects that you want to balance. I mean, it's

(50:35):
never going to be as maybe I mean I might
be wrong, but you're the expert. It's never going to
be as exactly the same as the under But if
there's such a big discrepancy, that is going to affect
how you swing the golf club.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
Correct.

Speaker 8 (50:50):
Yeah, and more so for injury potential, you know, if
there is a big discrepancy between the two. So it's important.
And you can get up to the point where the
weight that you're using for the extension is equal, I mean,
is equal in terms of the way it feels on
the flection. When you start off, you're probably gonna find

(51:11):
that the flection is going to be a whole lot
easier just because we're stronger on that side. But at
some point and you may want to do an extra
set on the extensors for the first few weeks just
to kind of get them to catch up to the
flexer side, and then you'll find that, you know, I
can do ten pounds, you know, ten to twelve to

(51:31):
fifteen reps and I get the same feeling that I
get when I do either the extension or the flexers.

Speaker 3 (51:38):
Right, well said, so I'm going to move on to
the next one here. So this exercise, Oh, so here
we go. This is another one here that you're bringing
up and you've actually looks like you've angled out a
little bit here.

Speaker 8 (51:51):
Yeah, this is rotation, So you want to go from
palms up to palms down, palms up, palms down, So
basically you're gonna supin eate, pro meate, and again that's
working the rotation of the forum, which in the golf swing,
as you're coming down through the golf swing, you want
to be able to kind of utilize those muscle groups.

(52:13):
And this one you want to be careful with because
again you don't want to put too much pressure on
the elbow, especially as you're kind of doing the superinated part.
You know, again, go slow and steady and don't try
to overdo it either with the range of motion, just
go to a comfort level or with the amount of
weight on this one.

Speaker 3 (52:34):
Yeah, exactly, because very and that's why I wanted to
sort of do that. A little bit of a disclaimer
is I don't want people going out there and think, well,
I can you know, I can curl you know, thirty
pounds aside or something, and they get out there with
a big heavy weight and you know, end up with
a wrist injury and being off the golf course for
the rest of the season, so I want to make
sure we get that other how we're gonna click to
the next exercise here and this is one here there

(52:57):
we are, So here you are set you gotta bar
and on a set up with some weight there.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
So what exercise you're getting ready to do here?

Speaker 8 (53:05):
So this is a reverse curl, So basically it's like
a bicep curl, but your grip instead of being the
grip with the palms out, you're turning the palms in
so that the palms are facing you. This is done
on a cable and you can use free weights for this. Again,
you're gonna go a little bit lighter than what you
would do a bicep curl with on this because it's
going to be tougher to do. And you want to

(53:27):
be careful when you get to about this point here
because it'll get easy again. So don't be looking down
because you may crack yourself in the nugget. So you know,
keep the palms facing you come up nice, slow and steady,
and a little bit of the wider grip on that bar,
and that's again going to work that forearm group along
with the bicep.

Speaker 3 (53:47):
Right, perfect, all right, So let's uh, that was the
last one that we had on there. So I think
you said you had a couple maybe that you might
want to do as well, that you want to show
you're gonna actually demonstrate it straight a little bit, So
if you want to go ahead and and do that now.

Speaker 8 (54:02):
Or yeah, I mean, a great little easy exercise to
do while you're sitting around watching the TV at night
is to take a rubber band right and again. Because
we tend to be stronger on the flexers than on
the extensors, because we hardly do anything where we're opening
up our fingers against resistance. If you take that rubber

(54:23):
band and you wrap it around your first knuckle and
just open and close, open and close fifteen to twenty
twenty five times, you'll start to feel a little burn
in those extensors. So that's a good one to kind
of offset that in balance between the flexers and the extensors.
And once twenty reps, let's say gets easy, you go

(54:45):
to the next thicker rubber band and that'll provide more resistance. Yeah.
The other's two other good exercises. I'm going to stand
up for this one demo. One's called a Zochman curl.
So again this will hit the bicep and the forearms
at the same time. So what you're gonna do is

(55:06):
you start off with a superinated curl. So as you
bring the dumb bells up, you're gonna go from palms
facing each other to palms facing your shoulder. When you
get to the top, you're gonna rotate the palms out.
Now this is where the forearm comes into play, and
you're coming down nice and slow. All right, supinate up,
rotate out, come down nice and slow. You're gonna feel

(55:30):
that break your rady alice pop as you're bringing that
weight down. So a real good exercise again, you know,
as an alternative, so you have a little variety to
do these exercises. You're not doing the same thing all
the time and just kind of going nuts. And then
another one and again eight to twelve to fifteen reps
comfortable weight. Another one is called a they call it

(55:54):
a pinwheel curl or across the body curl. So again
you're starting with the dumbbells at your palms facing each other,
and what you're gonna do is you're gonna come up
along your body. So the palm is facing your body
up to the top and then you know, alternate to
the other side. And I like to tell people to
kind of almost tap their cheek with the back of

(56:16):
the hand as you're bringing the duve bell up and
you just keep alternating doing your eight to twelve reps.
And again you can see that breaking a radio alis
popping there to work that forearm group. Yeah, so you
got five good exercises there. Almost crushed my laptop just then.

(56:38):
Five good exercises there to kind of help build up
those forums.

Speaker 3 (56:43):
You know, this is really good because this is an
area that a lot of people. I mean, I see
people at the gym. You know, they're lifting heavy weights
and they're thinking they're getting themselves in shape, and you
know a lot of those exercises don't really parcel out
when it comes to the golf course and what they
end up doing as they're bulking up and they might
look good, but they're really not engaging the muscles that

(57:04):
they're going to be using. And what people don't understand
is the forearms and the wrists those really engage because
that's part I mean, your hands are holding the golf club,
but those muscles are engaging with the golf club. The
other bodies, the big bodies, you know, your glutes and
all that. That's really the stability, if you will, of
the golf swing. That's helping rotation and things like that.

(57:26):
That doesn't have anything really to do with the golf club.
And if you've got weak risks, or you've got you know,
your forearms are weak as well, then you're going to
have problems of really swinging the golf club. And a
lot of times people will get that, especially as we
get older. I mean, it's just part of life as
we get older. But the main thing that I want
people to understand is that these are exercise that you

(57:50):
can do even at home.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
You don't have to go to a gym. These are
things that you can do.

Speaker 3 (57:54):
And if you don't have weights like that, and you
don't want to go and invest it and get a
couple of good soup cans, you know, something like that,
just to give you some this is bands.

Speaker 2 (58:01):
What have you in that?

Speaker 3 (58:02):
What I want to ask you, Yeah, exactly, rocks if
you have to. The one thing that I want to
ask you is how often and again we're going to
deal with age here, but how often weekly should we
be doing that, and how much is too much? Not
so much just the repetitions, but how often is should
this be something every other day that we do maybe

(58:23):
once or twice a week?

Speaker 2 (58:24):
How often should we be doing some of these exercises?

Speaker 8 (58:27):
Well, again, you know, if you're dealing with just amateur golfers,
a lot of them probably aren't doing anything in terms
of strength training for golf. You know, I like to
put my clients through a three day a week total
body workout, you know, like a Monday Wednesday, Friday, or
a Monday Tuesday Thursday. I would try to avoid three
days in a row because you want to kind of

(58:49):
give the muscles a break to kind of recover and restore.
But if you can get in a total body workout
three days a week where you're hitting the major muscle groups,
you do some golf specific exercises which you know, you
throw in those forearm exercises there, and you vary it
so that you don't get bored with it, that's that's

(59:09):
gonna be a great program. You'd be surprised how many
people can't maintain three day a week program. I mean
two days a week. Okay, you'll get some benefits but
if you can throw that third day in there, I
tell you, it really makes a big difference. The other point, too, Ted,
is you know, a lot of golf courses, I know
our course here, they like to keep the rough rough. Yeah,

(59:33):
you know, and that's where a lot of people get
hurt in the especially in the rest the elbows and
shoulders and stuff. So again, by strengthening the forearms and
helping with the grip, that'll kind of help you get
through those situations and reduce potential for injuries. So that's
another thing to think about.

Speaker 3 (59:53):
Yeah, but well said. And you know, again, we're in
sort of the coming into the fall season now. There's
still plenty of golf left for most of the country.
There's some areas that are going to be winding down
here in a couple of months, but there's still plenty
of golf left. It's never too late. And I think
these are nice exercises too, because you don't have to
necessarily do every single one of them each excuse me,

(01:00:15):
pardon each session. You can maybe do a couple of
them on the Monday, and do a couple of the
other ones on the Tuesday or on the Wednesday rather,
and then the Friday, do the other, you know, so
there's plenty, or mix them up and then increase how
many you're gonna do. So maybe you might start off
just doing two each day or each of your your
workout days, and then maybe if you find that that's

(01:00:36):
not giving the results you want, you know, maybe you
can do a third one each day, do three of
them each day, and then build it up and then
eventually maybe you're gonna do all, you know, five or
six of them. But you know, you can always ease
into it in that and based on your fitness level
and that. But I think it's important because a lot
of people I see, you know, and it adds and
contributes to weak grips. You know, they're not holding onto

(01:00:59):
the club well and they're not swinging the club well
because they've got weak forearms and wrists. And again, you
don't have to be pumped up like Schwarzenegger, but you've
got to definitely work those muscles because a lot of
people now, especially sitting behind desk and we're writing or
working on computers. You know, our fingers might be good,
but the rest of our forearms and stuff are getting locked.
So it's important to do these exercises.

Speaker 8 (01:01:20):
So yeah, and you're right about the variety. I mean,
I think one of the biggest factors that people burn
out is because they get bored doing the same thing.
And to be honest with it, you know, some of
the studies that are out there show that the muscles
get bored doing the same thing all the time. As
a matter of fact, a couple of studies I read
said there is actually even a little bit of a
d training because they're bored. So, I mean, if you

(01:01:41):
have you know, two or three different exercises for each
muscle group that you can rotate through, doesn't matter if
you're doing, you know, a chest press or a chest fly.
I mean, you're still hitting the chest from different angles
and such, and it gives you a little variety of
you know, the extra sizes instead of doing the same old,

(01:02:01):
same old. So it's good to have that variety and
it's good to kind of switch up. But also keep
in mind that you want to work within a repetition
you know, a range of eight to twelve, ten to
fifteen reps, and once you get to the maximum number
of reps, you kind of stay there for six sessions

(01:02:25):
a couple of weeks and then something needs to change
to challenge the muscle again, you know, because the muscle's
adapted to that weight. The easiest thing to do is
just to add more resistance.

Speaker 3 (01:02:37):
Yeah, yeah, well said. And I think it's important that
you know, people really engage in this. And as I said,
it's never too late. It doesn't matter what your age is. Obviously,
you know, if you've got some health issues and things
like that, you want to consult with your physician, and
you definitely want to consult with a golf fitness professional.
Don't just go to the gym and ask the guy there,
especially if you're playing golf, because they may not, you know,

(01:02:59):
give you exercise things like that. So somebody like Bob
is a great guy to have around. So Bob, if
for those that want to maybe reach out and give
them your website and if they want to connect obviously
I know you have information there, but give them the
website where they can get more information from you and
also maybe see some other exercises that you've talked about
in the past and maybe you haven't talked about yet

(01:03:19):
on on a future show. But I let them know
where they can go.

Speaker 8 (01:03:23):
Yeah, and I add new stuff, change things around every month,
so don't just go there once. Go back. It's Golf
Fit Carolina g O, L F I T Carolina dot com.
There's some articles in there, like you say, there's some
videos of exercises and such. There's our podcasts on there,

(01:03:44):
so they can go back and listen to some of
the older episodes that we've done on the various segments
of golf fitness and such. So yeah, yeah, and.

Speaker 3 (01:03:54):
You can also go into Golf tipsmag dot com. I'm
going to be featuring some of Bob's fitness tips on
Golf tipsmag dot com, so you want to check that
out as well. We're going to be adding more of
those as we go along. There's already a couple of
his earlier articles that he's provided. They're already up there
now under golf Fitness and Nutrition because they're covering that

(01:04:15):
as well. I mean, Bob's not a as he said
last time, not a nutrition expert. Buddy certainly can give
you a little bit of advice, but obviously you want
to consult with professional there as well. But Bob is
always thank you very much, look forward to coming back
in a couple of weeks and excited to see what
you've got in store for us then, and I'm going
to incorporate I just worked out today, but I'm going
to incorporate when I go this week into the gym again,
I'm going to incorporate a couple of these exercise because

(01:04:37):
I know I need to work my forearms and wrists,
so for.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
Definitely, for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:04:42):
All right, when we come back, I'm going to be
joined by my featured guest of the evening, So stick
around and we'll see you back here in just a
few moments.

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Speaker 2 (01:05:19):
Welcome back.

Speaker 3 (01:05:19):
I'm very excited to have my featured guest of the evening,
Mornee Botha. He is the CEO of John Doe Sports USA,
and I'll tell you a little bit about him and
then we'll get into tonight's discussion. So he is known
for expertise as a PJ professional and his extensive career
in golf business, technology, and innovation, which includes founding a

(01:05:40):
junior golf academy and developing a sports talent identification program.
His background also features a leadership role in revitalizing an
African golf course, serving as general manager for Duca del
Cosma Golf Footwear.

Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
Welcome to the show.

Speaker 3 (01:05:57):
Thanks, Sed, appreciate it well, thank you for joining tonight
and I'm really looking forward to this. So I want
to go back a little bit because we're both fellow
golf professionals, so I want to get it. I like
to do this with with all of my my new
guests on the show, and that is to go back
to when you were first introduced to the game. How

(01:06:20):
were you introduced to the game? Was it by a
family member or was it somewhere else? And what are
some of your earliest recollections of the game, And then
we'll get into some more discussion.

Speaker 7 (01:06:29):
Yeah, see. So I was introduced to the game by
my dad, not to initially go and play, but you know,
he had a game set up one Friday afternoon with
the bank manager and he said, you know, come along.
I was fourteen years old, and he said, come along
and come and caddy for me, and you know, three

(01:06:52):
holds in. I said, it looks easy. I should I
should give it a guy, and I played. I played
the next six I think the next six holes, and
you know, every whole up went one over par. I
beat the bank manager and my dad and the next

(01:07:14):
day I got my first set of clubs and started
playing golf. So I was lucky. I think like most
South Africans, you know, we grow up as a you know,
as a nation. You know, everyone is very active and
everyone gets introduced to all different sport disciplines from a

(01:07:36):
very young age. So you know, any any ball sport,
you know, sort of came easily to me. So so
golf was fun. I really enjoyed it. When I started.
My dad was slightly opposed to it. When I said
this is my game, he thought, you know, it's just
going to be a thing for another week or two

(01:07:56):
and then I'm off to you know, the next sport.
But now I started when I was fourteen, and twelve
months later, exactly twelve months later, I was playing off
a scratch handicap. Literally played golf every single day from
that first day I got my golf set. I really

(01:08:18):
loved the game. Yeah, and then you know South Africa,
growing up, the climate is perfect first of all, so
all year around, golf golf courses were very accessible, you know,
to get to South Africa doesn't really have private golf courses,
you know, so they're all what you would call you
in America, your municipal golf courses. So most of them

(01:08:42):
are very accessible, very affordable to play, and such a
small country, so I grew up with today you would
call them legends, you know in golf. And yeah, so
I really just became a golf nuts from day one.
And you know it's now, I don't know how many
is thirty Well then thirty years light and I'm still

(01:09:06):
in it and goetting strong, so loving loving the game.

Speaker 3 (01:09:09):
Well, I think once you get sort of bitten, as
they say, I know it sounds cliche, but once you
get bitten by the bug, it's very difficult to put
the clubs down. The only thing I would probably say
about your journey is it might not have been a
good idea to beat the bank manager and your dad
the first time out. That that might have caused a
little bit of friction there, but especially if your dad
was trying to get some business from the bank manager.
But uh, but no, you know, I think it's always interesting.

(01:09:33):
And the reason I ask people that is because everybody's
journey is different. You know, some people try it out
and and you know, it's okay, but nothing, and then
all of a sudden they hit that one pure shot
and it just you know, the golfing gods just sort
of open the flood gates.

Speaker 2 (01:09:46):
And and and there they go.

Speaker 3 (01:09:48):
And and it sounds like obviously, you know, you were
athletic anyways, and you had an opportunity to get out
there and play, and it was something that you were
passionate about, and uh, you know, became a PJ professional
at some point point as well. So walk us through
that journey. I mean, you obviously went out and played,
you became a scratch golf for very early. What made
you decide to to take it up professionally?

Speaker 7 (01:10:10):
Yeah, so game, you know, I think it's I think
it's also my type of personality. And I think, you know,
if you look at you know, golfers that start at
a young age and really stick to it, it's definitely
a personality traite where individual enjoys a sport with a

(01:10:33):
sort of individual sport, not not team sport necessarily, but
personality wise more you know, trying to be in control
on your own and take accountability for for your actions
in sport. I really enjoyed team sports, but golf for
me was just it's all me, you know, it's that's

(01:10:55):
what I put in, That's what I'm getting at. So
that's so that really is resonated with me, and I
think that got me sort of more into it. And
you know, yeah, I think turning bro was later on.
You know, it's all I wanted to do was play golf.

(01:11:16):
And even before golf, I knew I was going to
do something in sport.

Speaker 2 (01:11:20):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:11:21):
It was never you know, dreams of becoming a police
officer or firefighter or whatever. For me. It was anything
in sport. So only late on it was definitely golf. Yeah,
So Scratch played played what we called in in South Africa,

(01:11:42):
provincial golf. You be for your state or, and quickly
after that, you know, it was I come and study,
you know, in a golf scholarship in America. I wasn't keen.
I wasn't keen on that. I just wanted to play
golf s right way. So I turned pro in yeah,

(01:12:03):
straight off to school, turn pro, and funny thing happened.
You know. I initially thought, you know, it's going to
be easy, you know, get out there, just play golf,
get paid, and there you go. And then something happened
to me. So when I was good enough, not good enough,

(01:12:25):
I don't know to have made it as a tour player,
but one thing happened to me, and it was I
lost my sponsor. As a very young tour player. Played
in a tournament and I couldn't check out of the
hotel that they wanted me to, you know, to settle
my ball straight away. I don't have any money. I've

(01:12:49):
finished a second in that specific tournament, and I said,
I've got to check. You know, I had my check book.
I said, no that and take checks. You know, it's
I need to pay by god, swipe the cord or cash.
I said, well, I don't have either of those. I
can only give you a check. I said, well, you

(01:13:10):
know it's not going to work. I said, okay, I'll
let me sort of walked out the reception area, sat down,
and a friend of mine phoned me and he said,
I saw you played, you know, at this facility, at
this golf course. So you're still there. It's a resort
golf course. I said yes, And he said, you know, come,

(01:13:34):
why don't you stay there for another week? We on
our way there. I want some lessons if you're not
going to play in another tournament, and you'll pay for
all my accommodation and everything and settle my ball. And
you know, for me, that was like a sign from above,

(01:13:55):
here's my way out into teaching. And I don't know,
I just didn't like that struggling like that. And you know,
looking back today and my kids are keen golfers and
I say to them, you've got to love the struggles.
You need to embrace the struggles. And I didn't. I
enjoy it. I enjoyed the golf business side more. Straight

(01:14:17):
after that, I started my golf school. An idea was
to start this golf academy, golf school teaching kids, to
sort of sponsor myself to just go and play golf
and not worry about the finances. But that never turned
out like I fell in love with the business side
of golf. And even even when I started making enough

(01:14:40):
money to sponsor myself to play on tour, I didn't. Yeah,
it was just not I didn't wake up thinking I
want to hit the range and go and hit a
thousand golf balls. You know, for me, it was thinking
of my customers, thinking of business. So I I kept
on playing on tour for quite some time, but the

(01:15:04):
golf business side really attracted me. And that's did my
PJA apprenticeship qualified as a PJ pro. And I think,
like many PJ proges, do the normal thing till you
find sort of your way and what what you like
and were you sort of fifteen. Yeah, so that that

(01:15:25):
was my journey, you know from.

Speaker 3 (01:15:27):
It sounds like, yeah, it sounds like the at some
point that the playing sizzle. And I don't mean you
obviously enjoyed playing the game, but it kind of sounds
as a touring professional that sizzle kind of. You know, again,
it is a struggle people don't realize. And kudos to
you and and you know, uh, you know, bless you
for for going as long as you did.

Speaker 2 (01:15:46):
It's not an easy gig.

Speaker 3 (01:15:47):
And you know, it looks very glamorous on TV when
you see these professionals out there, but the truth of
the matter is, you know, it's there's only a top
you know, handful of people that really can go out
and do that day and day out and don't have
to worry about expenses. The rest of the guys and
gals out there just grinding at day and day out.
And uh, you know, I often look back years ago

(01:16:09):
when you look at some of the earlier pioneers of golf,
and they drove around with trailers and you know, they
didn't stay in hotels, and you know, so it's always
interesting when you look back and reflection. But but it's interesting.
I just always like to hear people's story and how
they got into the game. And we're now going to
get into your business and that is a Jundo sports.
So tell me a little bit. They just give me

(01:16:31):
a little bit of the history of it and how
it got started.

Speaker 7 (01:16:34):
Yeah. So it actually was founded by a good friend
of mine, Mike Mike de Young. He was a x
tennis pro tennis player and after well after he retired
from playing full time tennis, he got involved in the
highway business in South Africa. He was a distributor of

(01:17:00):
part of famous brand in Europe. He sold that business
and after I think he had a restraint to create
I suppose on him for two years and after that.
And this was during and just before COVID D they
were thinking of, or he was thinking of and understanding
obviously what we call fastball sports that there's a very

(01:17:23):
specific lens that that you need for for any racket
sport or golf and so on. Anyway, so he had
a friend optometrist that was and as a verkeen golfer,
and they started talking about, you know, what's what's the
right application for for golf specifically and anyway, long story short,

(01:17:47):
during COVID lockdown, you know, they had so much time
and they were talking and said, listen, we need to
while we've got time, let's develop this this lens and
and you know, put together product that's that really made
for golf. So they started that launched it in twenty
twenty in South Africa in the optometry lab there at

(01:18:10):
the time, ours the gm at peaking with golfy State,
Jack Nicholas signature course and Mike. We've been friends for
many years. He came to me and says, have a
look at this. You know, this product is really special,
and I put it on. And I've always been the

(01:18:33):
guy that, well, first I will love great products, good
quality products, and that can really help you play better.
I mean as a coach in me or the player
in me. That's that's what I like to see. You know,
people come with this fancy stuff today and I'll go, okay,
but what does it really do for your golf? That's

(01:18:54):
me And you know I put these glasses on it
as well. Actually can't believe it. And straight away we
got it into our shop there and I said to
him who owns this brand in America? And he said, no, well,
they just are manufacturers. They have got no intentions of

(01:19:14):
really going further. I said, well, I want this product
for America. And it took me. It took me a
couple of years to sort of set up the business.
And another very good friend of mine and now I'm
our business partner, Joann Lebenberg. He's a very good businessman,

(01:19:35):
serial entrepreneur, spoke to him about it and he said, well,
you know, you'll join me, and you know He'll run
the business affairs and I look after the golf side,
and that's what we did. So it took us about
two years after that to set up the business before
we could open up our offices here in America. And

(01:19:57):
it's now been about fifteen months, almost fifteen months since
we immigrated to both with our families and everyone, you know,
set up everything here in the States and started. So
we started Jon Doe Sunglasses here in the US. So yeah,

(01:20:20):
so that's where it started in a lab. It still
gets manufactured in optometry lab to friends of mine, Mike
and Peter. They still own the manufacturing and the Gendre
brand in South Africa and so we still manufacture there.
Then we ship everything here to the US and from

(01:20:41):
here we distribute.

Speaker 3 (01:20:42):
Now where is it based in the US? Where principally
are you based? I mean obviously your products are going
all over the place, but where where did you set
up shops sort of speak.

Speaker 7 (01:20:50):
Just outside of Charlotte in North Carolina. Yeah, yeah, beautiful,
it's very similar. The weather is very similar to South Africa.
And that was sort of one of the run's asking
out to end and well it's whether you know, it's
South Africa. You live out outdoors, you don't want to

(01:21:11):
side off of the years. So for us, it's need
to give us something that we can just live out outside.

Speaker 2 (01:21:18):
Man.

Speaker 3 (01:21:20):
Now, it's a good it's a good location for sure.
A lot of a lot of good golf courses in
in the Carolinas, both north and so. So I wanted
to ask you something, so, you know, I when I
was setting up for this interview, I got privy to
a few different articles and one of them was talking
about some of the science behind uh your products, and

(01:21:41):
and one of the things that really caught my attention,
I think, I don't think a lot of people know,
and I just want to get your your take and
your thoughts on this. But you know, so as I
was reading, I came across the section very early on,
and it talks about that really we see with our
brain and not our eyes, And a lot of people
you're probably thinking, what are you talking about? I don't
understand that, So can you maybe explain that for people?

(01:22:03):
I just find it very interesting because obviously you know
your products very well, So how how is it that
our brain or eyes are working together?

Speaker 2 (01:22:09):
What are we actually seeing with?

Speaker 7 (01:22:12):
Yeah, so if you know if you look at hard works.
You know, first of let's start with the brain. So
the brain, first of all, sits in a very dark cage.
You know, it doesn't have its own eyes or you know,
you need to feed the brain with all the senses.
The brain also doesn't know the difference between between different

(01:22:38):
pressure situations, whether it's life or death situation or just
you trying to make a three foot but doing the
skin of your body. You know, so the brain doesn't
know the difference. So that's that's the first stick. So
when you're playing golf, there are many factors that that
actually influence focus and and how the brain operates. So

(01:23:02):
first t yes, the first t shot, some guys gills.
Then on the first D they get nervous. The brain
goes fight to flight mode. You know, it's stress, it's
you know, what do you do? You might just run
to your back. The heart rate goes up, the hot
rate spikes, and the brain goes fight to flight mode.
Or you know, you play your front nine, you should

(01:23:26):
level pond the back nine, you go ten over pint?
You go you know what was what was so different?
You know why did while you get tight? There's fatigue
involved in the brain. The game goes well, the body
is under stress, there's fatigue that reacts differently, and the
moment the moment there's stress, the synapses is in the brain.

(01:23:47):
They they they sort of pull a pot to save
the neurons from from all that high energy going through
and the moment there is a disconne in communication, the
body starts reacting differently. Okay, now that's just the quick
what happens in the brain and stress. So so we see,

(01:24:10):
we see with the brain, not the eyes. In other words,
whatever information we send to the brain, and the better images,
the better information we send to the brain, the better
decisions we can we can make. The eyes is like
a camera, you know, taking pictures. So if we if
we don't have the right lens in front of that

(01:24:32):
basically captures the wrong images and sending that, you know,
to the brain and then from there trying to make
make decisions. So the lens technology that that that we
use is for that. So right, firstly, what can we
put on our eyes that will that will always sort

(01:24:53):
of relax the eye because the eyes are muscle, so
it cuts out eye fatigue. And once we cut out
i fatigue, you know, there's there's no stress and you
can keep your focus levels up. So that's that's the
first thing. The second one is to give the brain
the right visual image. You know, what does we what

(01:25:16):
do we require to do that? And firstly it is
we need true de perception. And a lot of sunglass
brands they claim, you know, true dead perception and this
and that. But you know, the moment you put a layer,
a coat, coating over it, the moment the lens is bent.

(01:25:37):
You know, you see all this fashion stuff today where
it's you know, these wrap around fancy you know, trendy
stuff that's going on the moment that happens is distortion.
When there's distortion, when there's any coating or anything over it,
you know, that messes up with the death perception. So
in any fast ball sport, any any ball sport, you

(01:26:00):
need true deir perception because it's all about judging distance
and what you see. So you'll find it that many
golfers that do play with sunglasses, they they play with
them on and then once they get close to the green,
you know they'll take them off, you know, to put
chip or in a bunker. And that's because you know

(01:26:21):
you're not looking in the distance anymore. You're looking sort
of up closer, and immediately it feels uncomfortable. You know
something is happening, and they take it off and there
they go. Now the moment you take it off, now
the eye the camera that the pupil closes because all
of a sudden, bright light, different light, different just and

(01:26:44):
that muscle working gets taright and now I fatigue kicks
in and you know, squinting and all of that. So
so that's the next thing. You want to give true
dead perception so you can make the right call. Vastly
in the lens, it's playing with colors now. The technology
we use is called spectral filtration. It's a technology where

(01:27:07):
we don't block light. Firstly, so most sunglasses block light,
and when you block light, it goes dark, it's darker.
Different lens stint in it and so on. So we
don't block light. We use light. Now with that ability
to use light, we can then play with different color

(01:27:28):
waves and spectrums that come through, so amplify certain colors
that you need to see in golf, red, green, blue, yellow, white,
those colors we amplify the other colors we sort of block.
Now that creates a big color contrast contrasting colors, and
that's the ability now to see adulation, read the greens

(01:27:50):
a lot better. But for the average golf just tracking
the ball through the sky, so it's almost like HDR
when you put it on and tracking the ball and
that's it. That gives you a big soothing sensation on
the eye. It gives the brain the best visual possible
and spectral for creation. And using light allows you to

(01:28:11):
play in any with these lenses, lenses in any weather condition,
so whether it's overcast, sunny, playing in the shade doesn't matter.
You keep them on and you can play with them
from start to finish. And so that's really the science
behind it. It's to really make any golfer, whether you're

(01:28:33):
pro golfer, uh, you know, regular golfer, good golfer, junior golfer, recreational,
doesn't matter. Any golfer. It helps you to really feel
that soothing sensation colms down everything better, visuals, better decisions,
and ultimately it's you know, to play better golf. I'm

(01:28:54):
not saying when you put it on now your handicap
will drop a few shots.

Speaker 2 (01:28:58):
I was hoping you would.

Speaker 7 (01:29:01):
Or we guarantee no more three puts, you know, but
it's all about you know, the it's it's it's it's
a it's a game of small margins, you know, so
every every single thing that you can do to help improve.
But the eyes lead the body, right, and that's and
that's something that we need to remember in the game.

(01:29:23):
Is that so when when we look at the eyes
and we give the eyes the best chance to give
the brain the best information possible, we enjoy the game
a lot better. We we enjoy the game a lot better,
we play slightly better, and that's what we that's what
we want ultimately.

Speaker 3 (01:29:43):
Well, and the reason morning that I wanted to get
you to talk about that, and I found it very
interesting and obviously there's a lot more detail it gets
into the article, but I wanted you to touch on
that because I don't think people really understand because you know,
we've sort of and this is something else that talks
about which you really just cover too in the articles
that talked about polarized lenses, and you know, you were

(01:30:05):
talking about that and obviously the different shapes of sunglass
products that are out there and how they're really not
beneficial for what we want to do, particularly for playing golf,
and it is so important.

Speaker 2 (01:30:16):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:30:16):
I know I've worn you know, cheap sunglasses, I've worn
very expensive sunglasses in my years, and I've found a
lot of the sunglass and I'm not, you know, knocking
a lot of the brands out there, but even some
of the most expensive brands that are out there didn't
just do the trick. And you know, to go to
your point because a lot of times I'm still looking

(01:30:38):
at and okay, I'm having difficulty judging the distance. It's
not my eyesight, but it's just that the lenses are
kind of almost playing tricks on you. So you know,
what you just explained really kind of clarifies that and
how important, especially when you get into green reading, because
with today's modern game, you know, the greens are very undulated.
They're not these nice flat pancakes that used to see,
you know, thirty years ago. They're a lot of undulation.

(01:31:00):
And if you can't read that, or if you can't
read the break because your your eyes are sort of
playing tricks on you. You know what you might think that
you're you've got to left, the right break might be
a straight or putt than you think, or vice versa,
and all of a sudden, you know, you're you're not
you're you know, and again all kidding, excuse me, all
pardon me, all kidding aside. You know, obviously, you know,

(01:31:22):
wearing the sunglasses is not going to reduce your handicap
per se directly, but it does contribute to becoming a
better player because you're now able to get the information.
You're able to feed your brain the information correctly, as
opposed to just sort of a lot of guesswork, which
a lot of people do. So I really like how
you explain that because it sort of opened up a
window for I think what the people don't really understand

(01:31:46):
just the importance of a good pair of sunglasses.

Speaker 7 (01:31:49):
So yeah, let's start with the colorized yeah section that
you mentioned. So, so, firstly, polarized lenses are great to
cut out there, to cut out like extreme bright light.
You know. That's if you look at the history of

(01:32:09):
sunglasses where it started. They well they made sunglasses for pilots,
you know, flying flying in the air, and it was
it was the right you know, sort of call it
application for for what they needed. And then it became
a fashion item sure, and it still is. You know,
if you look at if you're going to golf shops today,

(01:32:31):
and you know, I find it very difficult, you know,
walking into golf shops and all I see is butlarized
sunglasses because you know, it's it's it's a great lens
if you go fishing or you you you aret skiing
or boating and that that's fine. But you know for

(01:32:54):
for golf, it's not the best. And there's there's a
big trend in golf and all your listens, as will
will one hundred percent agree with me, is that you
know today people are looking at buying golf attire that
they can also wear like a crossover to lifestyle. I

(01:33:14):
mean here we're sitting in golf golf shirts. You know,
thirty years ago we wouldn't have sat here with a
golf shirt on all my golf pants and even our shoes.
I mean today, you know, your golf shoes are good
enough to to to you know, put on with a
pair of jeans and go out to a barbecue with them.

(01:33:35):
You know, that's what people are looking for today. That's
a trend, you know, a crossover product to golf and lifestyle.
So sunglasses for right into that, you know, it's great
to buy a pair of sunglasses that you can you know,
where when you're driving or go and watch a football
game or whatever. It's perfect. But for golf, you know,

(01:33:55):
if we go back to polarization, So polarization brings in
their perception issue because it blocks light in the and
and the glared differently on both horizontal and vertical lines.
And by blocking that so you see, it's almost like
the blinds behind me if you have to look through them.

(01:34:16):
You know, certain lines you see, others are blocked out.
Now when you look down immediately it brings in a
different effect. You can't really focus that sharply on that
point that's so close to you. So for golf, it's
a definite no, no, you don't want to do it.
I mean, it's like a built in automatic, built in
feed but butter that that people will sell. We can't

(01:34:39):
do that. So for golf, it's really important to have
the right lens. And to your point, you know, it
does help. It does help you perform better. You know.
The tests we do is obviously not just on the
frame or the lens from a optometry standard, but also
the actual output and feed back that we that we

(01:35:01):
get and simple things like if I stand on the
green and I ask any golf you know, read read
this line for me, and give me an exact spot
where you think this but will break from left to
right and considering the slope, the grain, and the speed.
So they will give me a spot. And I say,

(01:35:24):
right now, put on polarized lens. Put on even a
non polarized lens, but that's you know, where there's a
coating on or whatever. And then put on our glasses.
And then immediately they say, but I'm going it feels different.
I say, okay, so give me that point that you
feel now. And then I said, all right, now from

(01:35:46):
this point to that point. And normally I just use
a stump meter reader, let the ball run to a
very specific point, and then I'd say eight out of
ten times the stump when we roll the ball, the
actual line for the ball to get into the hole
is eight. Eight out of ten is closer to the

(01:36:08):
to the line that you would see with the glasses on,
because it gives you a better feel for what's happening.
I don't want to relate it to that because I'm
not a I'm not too knowledgeable about it, but like
aim point, yes, so why do people use aim point
is it's it's all based on feel, right, and that

(01:36:31):
gives them a better sense of you know, how the pule,
how the put will break, and I mean feel and
how their body is aligned and that. So the glasses
does basically that you know that you put it on
and immediately there's a better visual to make a better decision.
And it's not just a better decision you're going to make,

(01:36:51):
it's a more accurate decision you're going to make. And
I've spoken to especially my boys. You know, my one
son is a really good golfer, and you know some
days it comes off and he says, well, I've been
so unlucky. I've lipped out so many puts. I said, oh,
you know, I don't look at it. Go read Dave

(01:37:11):
Bell's putting by about luck and a putting greed. But
you know, for me, it's you're going to be more
shocked with choosing the right line and mix that line
obviously with pace, and then you're going to make more puts.
You know, if if all day all eighteen holls goes
and it's always lip out, lip out, lip out, you
know it's it's not just luck or bad luck. That's

(01:37:34):
the something else wrong, right, And to your point, you know,
when you have the right lens on and you get
the exact right visual that the brain needs, you can
make a better decision. You feel a lot better, and
you pat, I mean, you ask many amateurs, you know,
give me a line, and it's always left lip right.

(01:37:55):
It doesn't matter how many. I mean, it's really going
to sit like this before the Yeah, it's at least
you know, see the lift right, it's always left club
right club, you know, and it's not blocked it.

Speaker 3 (01:38:09):
You know, so you know they're green reading. Yeah, they're
green reading. Lacks uh, some consistency, that's for sure. You know,
it's interesting because again, you know, you're really making the
point that you know, the eyes are sort of the
window to to what we need when we're playing golf,
because again, if you're if you're if you're bringing in

(01:38:30):
the wrong information, then you're going to make more than
likely a wrong decision. And when you're able to see
what's really going on and getting a better visual and
you're able to see that break correctly and you're able
to see the distance and and so forth a little
bit better, what that does over time is that brings

(01:38:55):
uh confidence into play because then you feel more confident
and more self assured about your game and you're going
to see results. And again, it's not that it's changing
your goal sewing. It's not doing that, but it's giving
you better information. It's kind of like in a way,
you know, before we didn't really know the yardages. Now
we have technology out there to help us with the

(01:39:15):
yardages and that. So it's very similar in that is
it's doing something else. It's giving us more information while
looking good at the same time. And that's really what
you want, is you want Again, you touched on lifestyle
sort of that transition not just something that you wear
out in the golf course, but something that you can
transition to when you're going out for dinner or you're
going out for a nice you know, sunset walk with

(01:39:38):
your partner. So there's a lot of different applications that
can be used, but it really it goes to the
point that you're making is how important it is that
we get accurate information if we want to play our
best golf. And it sounds like you guys have really
got a great formula.

Speaker 7 (01:39:54):
Yeah, for me, it's almost locky. Why is the golf
basic so important. So if you take alignment, for instance,
you see so many golfers hit golf balls on the
range and you know, all of a sudden, you know,
the the alignment starts going off where they need to aim,

(01:40:17):
you know, feed deb shoulders pointing right, and all of
a sudden, everything is over the top, over the top,
and it's like the brain immediately feels my alignments off.
I need to come over the top to sort of
fix a fault with another fault. And after one hundred
balls in you straight over the top, and how all
of a sudden it's not coming back like a pool

(01:40:38):
left to the target. Now it's slicing. You don't know
where there's how this screept in. And meanwhile, it's just
the basic thing of allowing you know, the brain to
feel comfortable with whatever it is. And alignment for me
is one of those things, and also with the grip.

(01:40:58):
But alignment to me is so important. At the moment
you miss out on that, you know you're going to
there's going to be compensating errors. And after a while
of practicing it the wrong way, you screwed because you've
got to somehow get back on you know, on tracker.
The eyes are exactly the same. So if you look

(01:41:20):
at things and you keep on giving the brain the
wrong information, at some point everything is going to be
leftlop rightlip when you read dreams, or or not seeing
the ball right where it sits in the rough, or
judging distance from from the ball and to the hole,
you know, looking at the whole, judging distance, long distance

(01:41:41):
parts or chips, chip shots. You need to you need
to get the right information to the brain. You know,
to obviously put that into a feel, you know, to
hit the field shot. But if you don't do that,
I mean, just imagine you're seeing the wrong distance or
you're not looking at the line correctly. After a while,
it's like, I mean, I mean twenty yardds right of target,

(01:42:05):
coming straight over the top and wondering why am I
keep slicing the ball or I'm not consistent not getting
the ball on target, And that's exactly the same for me.
So it's it's like you said.

Speaker 2 (01:42:19):
What it does.

Speaker 3 (01:42:20):
It creates a domino effect because once you have incorrect
information and you make a decision, that decision affects the outcome.
And if you try to compensate, not necessarily with getting
new information, but if you make adjustments based on the result,
sometimes it's not going to be the right because you
don't have the accurate information. So it's it's kind of like,

(01:42:43):
you know, if you have a business, you know you
have to gather as a CEO, as the owner of
a business, you have to gather certain information to make
an informed decision. And if some of that information is
good but other information is not, then you're not really
getting a true accurate picture. And that's really what you're,
in a layman's term, you're trying to say is with
your product, is that it helps to give you the

(01:43:04):
information that you're going to need that your eyes can
take in more effectively to help you make And that
doesn't mean you're going to swing the club that any better,
but it's going to help give you the accurate data,
if you will, or the accurate information that you need
to to make a better decision. And once you're able
to do that, then the other sort of follows suit.

(01:43:25):
But if you're making bad choices because of misinformation or disinformation,
then it creates a negative domino effect and ultimately you
end up making adjustments elsewhere thinking you have to make
it up I want to get to this because we're
getting close to having to wind up here in a
few minutes. But I want to bring in this part
of the discussion which I found very interesting. He's one

(01:43:45):
of my favorite golfers. Of course, I'm talking about another
fellow South African that's Ernie Els. I understand that he
is also come into John Doe family, if you will.
He's a four time major champion Hall of Famer, So
you guys have to be pretty excited about having him
uh and his endorsement with that, tell how that came about.

(01:44:06):
How did you guys manage to to get involved with
with earning so?

Speaker 7 (01:44:14):
Yeah, of in of last year at the SAS Championships
in Greensboro, North Carolina, I walked up to him in
UH in one of the events they greeted him. I've
known him obviously known him from South Africa and playing
on turn and he asked me what am I doing
and asked, well, with sunglasses business and this and that,

(01:44:37):
and he said, okay, let me have a look. And
he put it on and he goes wow, And that's
the that's the That's always the sort of response we
get from people when they put it on. You know,
so he was he was like, wow, this is amazing.
Luck you know, it's h d R. Everything lightens up

(01:44:58):
and he put it a bit and then he played
in the program before the event and he asked and
he can he take it out on the golf course.
So of course he played a couple of als with that,
and he said, now he's keeping that pay he wants
to play with it, and yeah, and then he said, listen,

(01:45:20):
here's my number, give me a call. So I sent
my number to him, and in the tournament he texted
me and said, I want to see you in two
weeks in my office in Jupiter. So my business partner
John and I flew down to Jupiter and meeting with
him and all his managers, and he said, listen, he
wants to he wants to play with these classes and

(01:45:43):
represent them. And we were sort of keen and happy
to have him on board. And first tournament he played
in Hi he won actually with him, and then yeah,
a month or two later, two months later said listen,
he wants to be part of the company and a helper.

(01:46:04):
So it's it's the three of us. So it's Ernie,
myself and Johann Libenberg so and he's just been amazing
with us, you know, and Ernie as a difficult customer,
you know, he's he's like you say, full time major
when all of famers he's I mean, he's just a legend.

(01:46:29):
And whatever you found on an early stage or age
in his career that works for him, he sticks with that.
And why I say it's a difficult customer, he does
what's what works for him. So he's very finicky about
using anything. You know, if it's a different ball, different shaft,
different but different doesn't matter. You know, he really works

(01:46:54):
what works well for him. He plays with that and
for him, like to your point earlier, for him, and
it's amazing when you when you get time to spend
with the legend like this, it's amazing what a big
role confidence you know, plays in in in their game.

(01:47:16):
So if if he's not one hundred percent confident with
a glove ball, butter, the caddy on the back, the
way he stays, what he eats, the routine, everything, if
he's not comfortable, you know, they just feel like can't
perform or can't win. And at that level it's obviously

(01:47:36):
all about you know, winning, and even on the champions Tour.
I mean, those guys are unbelievably good. I mean, it does.
My kids always said, in a couple of years, are
you going to play on the seniors Tour? You're going
to try and you know, and I walked a couple
of holes and then watch the US Open at Congressional
and it was like, no, that's his. They might be old, older,

(01:48:03):
but they're freaking good. It's it's unbelievable out with so yeah.
So for Ernie to have him on board, being such
a legend of the game obviously, and and him really
lacking the technology, you know, it's amazing. And he told
us straight up, he said, listen, he's going to play

(01:48:23):
with it and he's going to try and get used
to it. He was sponsored by another company before. He
could never play with it. It was a polarized lens though,
But he said, listen, even if it takes me a
year or two years to get used to it, I
want to be part of this journey of the John
Doe journey in the USA. And he's going to try

(01:48:45):
and make it work. And and you'll see him play
with that practice and then you know, when it gets
down into the streets, you'll take them off and I
said listen, and please don't put it on and off
because that will create more eye fatigue. Right, So he
is this a very difficult custom in that scenes. It's
not just put glasses on and carry on. Right at

(01:49:06):
that level, these guys are so finicky with what works
and all about confidence. Every single thing, you know, even
the shirt's got a perfect and nothing was bothered there.
So but it's great Jev someone like Ernie on board
and his old team, so it's yeah, we're very excited
with that partnership.

Speaker 3 (01:49:26):
Well, and it's going to be good to have somebody
like him. I mean, I know there's a lot of
great professionals out there, but somebody that is a little
more finicky when it comes to having the right equipment.

Speaker 2 (01:49:37):
Having the right things at their fingertips is a good thing.

Speaker 3 (01:49:41):
It certainly presents a challenge for you guys, obviously, you
know you've got to But it's not just about making
him happy. It's about making him realize that there is
a big benefit. It's not just a style or you know,
a look, it's about these will perform and these guys
are all about performance. That's why they use the equipment
they use that's why they look the way they do.

(01:50:02):
It's about performance. How am I going to perform on
the golf course because that's their job. I mean they
might have businesses on the side, they might endorse different
products and things like that, but that's their job. As
long as they're still playing, that is their job. So
if something is not going to contribute to the success
on the golf course, they don't want any part of it. Now,
some guys will do it and you'll take a few

(01:50:23):
dollars here and there, and they'll do it and it's
adding to their capital. But the real pros are the
ones that will thumb their nose up if it's not
going to if it's not going to help them, Hey,
I don't care how much you're paying me. I don't
want you know, I'm not gonna, you know, put that
in my bag, or I'm not going to carry that,
or I'm not going to wear that, you know. So,

(01:50:44):
I mean that's really a testament to his professionalism, and
that's the kind of guy you want to have on
part of the team. So I think that's a great
a great mix. And I've always loved Earnie. I think
I've only ever seen him once live years ago, and
I've watched him many times of course on TV. But yeah,
he's just I mean, they call him the big easy
for for a reason. He just has that kind of personality.

(01:51:06):
But he's also a tough and shrewd businessman. He's smart,
and that's the kind of guy you want to have
your your your fold. So kudos to you for for
working that partnership. O, thank you.

Speaker 7 (01:51:19):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:51:20):
So for those that want to get more information and
want to really do a deep dive into the product,
where can they go?

Speaker 2 (01:51:27):
What's the website they can go to?

Speaker 7 (01:51:29):
Yeah, the best would be to go to our website.
It's www dot John Doe Sport j O N d
O Sport s b O rt dot com and everything
is on me. So all the technology, the different models
is an app. We can do a virtual try on
see what sort of style will fit your best. You know,

(01:51:53):
it's a it's a small range. It's all about us performance.
So even the frames are designed for golf, so it's
not a big range. We believe in something small that
you know will fit eighty eighty five percent of the
market out there, and and a small range. You know
that we don't want to confuse people. Our focus is

(01:52:14):
more on the lens because, as I said earlier, we
still manufacture in a lab, so it's not mass produced.
So the quality everything sits in that lens, and so
pick a frame that sort of works for you. On
the website, the lenses are all exactly the same one

(01:52:34):
and only lens that's that's in all the frames. But
on on our website you'll you'll get it there perfect.

Speaker 3 (01:52:42):
So John dosport dot com is where you want to
go and investigate their product. I want to thank you
morning for coming on and joining me this evening. It's
been an interesting discussion to learn about your product and
I'm definitely going to check it out. Have one question
for you I want to ask, and I think I
know the answer, but I just want to get this
if this is something that's available now, or if this
may be something if you're dealing with people that maybe

(01:53:07):
have a prescription for I wear, is that something that
at this present time that you're able to accommodate with
that or is that something that may happen down the road.
And what I mean because obviously I wear glasses to read,
and I mean I can and I need to wear
them to play golf unfortunately. So is that something that

(01:53:27):
is currently available or is that something that may come
in the mix at some point.

Speaker 2 (01:53:31):
Down the road.

Speaker 7 (01:53:32):
Yes, we have that available our lanes again, it's a
hardened lanes, let's stick. So we do the prescription on
that sign lanes perfect. So we just need your script.
So you like the script from your optometrist. We get
it made up in our lab in South Africa and
once it's once it's ready, we send it to you

(01:53:53):
so that we can we can do that for you.

Speaker 3 (01:53:56):
Big thumbs up for that. I'm glad to hear that.
That was gonna be my my last question. I wanted
to make sure because I need you know, I need
my prescription, but script job definitely do that. Well morning,
Thank you very much. I really appreciate you coming on.
I've learned a lot about your company and obviously you
you personally as well, and I appreciate that. If you

(01:54:17):
want to hang tight for just a second, I'm going
to wrap up and uh and then we'll get ready
to close off. I want to thank also all of
my other guests on the show tonight. I want to
thank the guys on the Coaches Corner. Pane A little
bit earlier, John Hughes and John Decker, thanks guys for
always doing a great job. And also a very good friend,
Bob Foreman, our golf fitness professional, for coming on and
giving us some great tips for the wrist and forearms

(01:54:39):
to get those in shape for still a few more
months left in this golf season here in the United States,
so get out there and do some of the exercise
that that Bob talked about. And then of course, my
very special featured guest of the evening Morney Botha again,
if you want to go to their website to learn
a little bit more about their iwear. John Dosport dot
com is the website to go. Thank you everybody, have

(01:55:01):
a great week. I appreciate you tuning into the show
and I will see you next week right here on
Golf Talk Live. God bless everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:55:11):
Thanks for joining us. We hope you enjoyed this week's
broadcast of Golf Talk Live. We'd like to thank this
week's Coach's Corner panel and a special thank you to
tonight's guest. Remember to join Ted every Thursday from six
to eight pm Central on Golf Talk Live, and be
sure to follow Ted on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. If

(01:55:31):
you're interested in being a guest on Golf Talk Live,
send Ted an email at Ted dot Golf Talklive at
gmail dot com. This has been a production of the
Igolf Sports Network.

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Golf Talk Live - Season 13 Episode 23 | Sept 12th, 2025

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Golf Talk Live - Season 13 Episode 23 | Sept 12th, 2025