#12 | Tom Montalk - The Physics of UFOs - Hard Truths

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome everybody to another episode of the Hard Trews Podcast
with Ashton Forbes. Today, I have a very special guest.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
His name is Tom Montalk. Tom Montalk is.

Speaker 1 (00:10):
An expert at scaler physics. He is an an electrical
engineer and a physicist. He has written several books. We
spoke a year ago, had a mind blowing conversation about
scaler physics. Now I want to bring Tom Montalk back
on to talk more about plasma, UFOs, aliens and scaler physics. Tom,

(00:31):
Welcome back to the show.

Speaker 3 (00:32):
Brother, Hey Ashen, good to be back.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
Thanks. Well, let's just jump right into this, Okay.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
I know some people are familiar with your background, other
people are not familiar with it. Just give us a
quick recap of what you've been studying for the last
fifteen or twenty years related to physics, engineering, UFO phenomenon.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (00:51):
Yeah, So as a child, I had various paranormal experiences
in Germany, stuff that nowadays you could call it potentially extraterrestrial.
But I've also had various kinds of supernatural entergy encounters
as well, besides that new non physical stuff. But anyway,
some when else thirteen, I decided to really started digging
into what could be going on with that, So I

(01:11):
read all the UFO, all the metaphysics, all the physics
books at my local library, and then a couple years
later I started getting really into suppressed science, so I
ordered all these information packets from rexresearch dot com and well,
this is before the internet, so they advertised in the
back of Popular Science magazine. So I got their photocopy
information packets on Townsend Brown on various free energy inventions,

(01:35):
Wellhelm Reich and the entire things. So I started doing
lots and lots of experiments. Back then, I didn't have
the expertise or the tools I needed to do it properly,
but I did try. At least I got into weather
engineering using Wilhelm Rece cloud busting techniques, and then eventually
I went to college for physics and electrical engineering. So
I only ended up doing four and a half years

(01:56):
of that because I realized going into academia it was
too and I didn't have the freedom that I would
need to pursue these fringe things without always having to
worry about covering my own ass from you know, ruining
my credibility for looking into something that wasn't officially approved.
So I decided, you know what, I'm just going to
do like graphic design web design on the side and
spend my free time studying these topics, everything from alternative

(02:19):
science to eufology, to current events to I mean everything
that could provide puzzle pieces as to what's really going
on and what is really being kept away from us.
And so over the years, I've communicated with thousands of people,
including scientists, researchers, abductees, eufologist, any any sort of truth
seeker who's into this, and I've amassed a huge database

(02:41):
of personal anecdotal data plus you know, research things, many
things that you yourself ash and have been into and
have been discovering over the past year. I've been heavily
into a lot of that stuff too, and so that
sort of allows us to converge our paths right now
in this podcast.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
Absolutely, So, what is going on to your research? After
decades of looking into it, talking to people, getting experiences,
looking into the science and the physics, what is your
best guest for what's going on with UFO phenomenon?

Speaker 4 (03:12):
Yeah, so I think working backwards, it's you and yourself
know your entire audience knows that the government, the shadow government,
the shadow of military. They have technologies that are decades,
if not centuries, ahead of what is admitted within mainstream physics.
So when I went to college back in nineteen ninety
eight through two thousand and two, our textbooks, that stuff

(03:37):
is stone age compared to the true science that these
black ops programs have. Now, the question is how much
of that is explainable within eupology. In other words, how
much of the supposed UFO phenomenon, alien phenomenon, abductions and
so on, is actually the secret government being involved in
these illicit, illegal programs. And I think I would say

(03:59):
maybe thirty five twy percent of it is Nowadays that
it's quite a bit because within the upology field there's
not only the disposed thing as alien abductions, but there's
also military abductions or my labs. And there's many, many people,
you know, I mean, they're not all nutcakes or fruitcakes
or anything. They're they're like, you know, people with credentials
that claim to be military abductees. And also on the

(04:20):
anecdotal data, like I know people personally whose parents were
in the military and they went on to go into
working for the NSSA or military like naval intelligence or something,
and they would have periods of time during the military
service where they would black out and they wouldn't know
what they did for that period of time. It's almost
like they're indoctrinated into a black program, and then when
they discharged from it, they all are memories of it

(04:42):
were erased, okay. And when you're involved in something like that,
it's very easy for you to also be like have
like an altar and stall like an ultra personality that
can be switched on or off. And so you could
be living a regular suburban life and sometimes at night
you could be abducted using portal technology similar to the
MH three seventy type technology where you can be taken

(05:04):
out of your room, you know, I mean, not like
an entire airplane, but just you your body, brought to
an underground base, do what you do there in your
alternate personality, and then be brought back by five in
the morning to wake up an hour later. This is
a sort of like a common pattern, okay. And so
within that field of abductions, there is definitely a human
component to it for sure, okay, But me and myself,

(05:25):
you know, when I was a kid in Germany. Neither
my parents were involved in anything military whatsoever. I mean,
my entire family had no association with the US military.
We did live in Germany, which did have US military bases,
but I don't see how I would get on their radar,
and the experiences that I remember, they do seem to
involve non humans. Okay, I do remember the typical gray aliens.

(05:46):
I remember something that was like a gray slash b
reptilian hybrid, and I thought it was my imagination until
I asked my mom and my grandma, like, was there
anything weird that happened during those years? And they said, oh, yeah,
of course. You know you're always talking about these gray
men or these stone men coming after you. All right,
So it wasn't like like me reading abduction literature and
then like inventing memories because my mom and my grandma

(06:07):
remembered me talking about that stuff. So anyway, that set
me on a long research path to figure out, okay,
well what's going on with that? So my personal personal hypothesis, Okay,
my personal hypothesis is that if humans have the ability
to develop very advanced technologies, and we've done it rapidly
from like eighteen fifties where we had like horses and buggies,
and then all of a sudden Tesla came around. And

(06:29):
then the airship mystery sightings of eighteen nineties where clearly
some group was experimenting with anti gravity vessels even in
the eighteen nineties. Okay, and then you go a little
bit beyond that, once you had quantum mechanics and relativity,
and then the Nazis were They're probably the ones that
were generating those food fighters that that you know, certain
airplanes were seeing. And they also had advanced anti gravity

(06:51):
technology and possibly free energy, maybe even time travel or
time bending technology back then, you know, certain allegations of that,
and so things accelerated very very quickly, and so you
have to think about it. Okay, well, what if this
track of acceleration keeps on happening for the next I
don't know, five hundred years, how far could humanity go?
You probably go to alpha centry even right now using

(07:12):
that technology.

Speaker 3 (07:12):
Right.

Speaker 4 (07:13):
So the thing is, if there is life elsewhere in
the universe at all at all, and they also have
this acceleration curve, how impossible is it that at some
point they could have done the same thing, and now
we're the ones being visited even one hundred thousand years ago,
a million years ago. So just humans can do it,
I think other things can do it, and perhaps therefore
they have and therefore they have been here for a

(07:35):
very long time. So that's sort of my personal view
on it. And the thing is, if you continue that
thought experiment more and more and more, you start realizing, okay,
well then you have different worlds, different civilizations that all
accelerate at their own independent rates, but eventually they collide.
Eventually they you know, it could be like the Spaniards
meeting the natives, or it could be the Spaniards meeting

(07:55):
the British, you know, like a parody kind of a thing.
But either way, you get wars competition, and eventually you
get a kind of homeostasis amongst all these different civilizations
where everyone knows their place and there's rules and laws in.

Speaker 3 (08:08):
Place and so on.

Speaker 4 (08:09):
So what if that has already happened and Earth is
kind of in this heavily traffic trafficked area but almost
kept isolated in a way, you know, like like the
like some sort of a nature preserve or zoo or something,
you know, And so maybe maybe these things that are
around they're not just secret military things, but they could
actually be humanoids or other beings from other worlds that

(08:32):
are here for their own agenda. And I think the
ones that have the most power would be the ones
that would be the most involved in our affairs because
they would have the greatest ability to do so, and
that could include everything from genetic manipulation to trying to
take over the planet for themselves by our consent, you know,
So they'd be seeding a lot of disinformation like, oh,

(08:53):
the Grays are good and we need them, we need
to hybridize with them. That's that sort of spiel. So
when you start hearing these narratives about Grays wanting to
ibridize with us and trying to infuse our genetics with
theirs to create this superior hybrid that's half human and
half grain, well, you know what, maybe that's not all
government disinformation. Maybe that is an actual, genuinely extraterrestrial or

(09:13):
some sort of non human intelligence that's trying to do that.
And if that's the case, then we've got two problems
to deal with. You don't mean we have one problem,
which is the human corrupt military component, which is trying
to hoard all this technology for themselves, and you have
a higher version of that which is more and more cosmic. Right,
So it's almost like like two bosses in this video game.

Speaker 3 (09:32):
We have to get through.

Speaker 4 (09:33):
We have to get through the human coruption element, and
we have to get through this alien corruption element. So
it's actually probably more complex and more difficult than some.

Speaker 3 (09:41):
Some conspiracy researchers believe.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
That's my Yeah, I think it's a good hypothesis.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
Why because you've grounded it in logic and reason, which is, Okay,
we've got these technologies that are out there. Maybe they're
free energy, maybe they're teleportation or portals, whatever you want
to call. Those two things are really the only thing
that's holding back faster than light travel at the moment.

(10:07):
And if you open the door to faster than light travel,
now all of a sudden, it's not so implausible that
aliens would be here.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
You know.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
It's like, now if distance is no longer an issue,
maybe the aliens can come visit us, Which is why
I personally think that the technology will open the door
to those bigger questions on what is the nature of
the alien stuff? And people that have been saying, like
people gonna say, oh, he's talking about hybridization. The more
I look at this stuff, the less in the WU.

(10:34):
I think that's like the thing that's like the least
in the wo in my opinion is that we've been
able to clone people for like twenty years. I don't
know if a lot of people know this, but under
George Bush, we banned human cloning. There was just a
story a few weeks ago a guy cloning some kind
of weird, big horned sheep and then hybridizing it as well,
like some random farmer. So, like we're in the point

(10:57):
twenty twenty four where genetic manipulation crisper technology is already
reached complete mainstream.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
I guess what I would ask you on.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
A follow up is, so, what I'm hearing is that
it's a combination potentially of technology that humans have figured out,
maybe we've got it from aliens or what have. It
goes back really far, is what I'm hearing, maybe one
hundred and fifty years, and then possibly a combination of
actual visitation or just non human intelligence. You kind of
you weren't super specific about it, but you know, opens

(11:30):
a lot of different options out.

Speaker 4 (11:31):
There, right right, And I would say that I think
if we okay, so if aliens didn't exist, if we
were just left our own devices, I do think that
the trajectory that we took from the eighteen mid eighteen
hundreds forwards, it is possible that we could have done
it all on our own. Because once you get to
James Maxwell and his electrodynamic theory and you start expanding

(11:51):
that just a little bit, that opens the door to
anti gravity, free energy portals, time travel, so that the
potential was already there. However, the worst certain things like
semiconductor technologies, which they were really really struggling with it
until Roswell Roswell Crash happened. I think within within one year. Oh,
they came out with the transistor. Finally a working transistor.

(12:12):
You know, maybe they just need that little nudge. And
you know, some people theorize that Roswell that was an
actual alien craft, but that it was purposely crashed as
a trojan horse in order to seed advanced technology within
human civilization. And while the question is why, well, now
we have computers, now, we got cameras everywhere, we got
satellites watching us, we have we're on the eve of

(12:33):
a global totalitarian police state thanks to that sort of technology.
Maybe that's what the goal was all along. I'm not sure,
but some people have theorized that, and I guess it's possible.
I mean, from what I know about eufology, abduction experiences, anecdotes,
all the data, everything about it, these aliens are extremely clever.
I mean they're very clever. Not only that, but they're

(12:54):
also you know, like with remote remote viewing, you can
remote view not only other places but also other times,
the past, the future, probable futures, right, and so these beings,
it seems to me that they have an very advanced
ability of precognition of being able to map out different
probable futures and to adjust their actions and their adjustments
to our timeline right now. Just like the movie The

(13:15):
Adjustment Bureau, They're able to adjust things right now in
order to affect the future in a way that they want. Now,
you would think, okay, well they have that much power,
why haven't they fully taken over our planet? And I
think it's probably because there are other factions that might
cancel that out, that want a different goal, and so
there is this cold war kind of counterbalance happening. Even
at the non human level, that is keeping things relatively

(13:35):
steady up until a certain point. So yeah, it's pretty complex.
I will say I think overall human history has been
nudged and managed by, potentially by non human powers. And
I just say that based on works like William Bramley's
The Gods of Eden, which is an interesting book because
he was a historian who didn't believe in any of
this alien stuff. He just wanted to He just wanted

(13:58):
to write a general history book. So he started digging
into actual library archives in Europe and everywhere, like looking
at these ancient records, and he started spotting all these
anomalies that indicated either the presence of time travelers or
something that seemed non human interfering with human history at
key points. So it's an interesting book, you know, because
he ended up writing a totally different book than what
do you set out to. But that's usually how it goes.

(14:19):
You know, a lot of these people that are into euthology,
they didn't start out being abductees or even believing in it.
But once you start looking at enough data you start
out to conclude that there's something going on. Now, it
doesn't mean it has to be extra terrestrials. It could
be time travelers. It could be some sort of weird
quantum phenomenon where you've got like parallel timelines and there's
bleed throughs going on.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
There could be that.

Speaker 4 (14:39):
You know, it could be some sort of interdimensional thing,
and these things are not mutually exclusive. It could actually
be a big spectrum of all these things that are
going on.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
So yeah, I mean, the problem, I guess is that
you know, there's so many things going on without a
lot of evidence for some of these more I'm going
to call it esoteric concepts where they're grounded in pure physics,
like time travel for example. It's like, without more understanding
of like data, what's happening, how can we say whether
or not there's a multiverse or if we're in some
kind of deterministic timeline. You just you can't tell unless

(15:10):
you have more data. But I love that you brought
up the example of there's this guy that you know
started looking through the history.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
Wasn't a UFO person?

Speaker 1 (15:17):
I like that because that's the same thing that happened
to me, is that I'm somebody that recently got into
this topic. I said, what's going on with this? I
saw these crazy videos. Let me learn everything about the
lore and the history of everything I learned. I always
tell people there's three things. Do you know electrical engineering?
You need to understand physics, and then you need to
understand history. If you understand those three things, you will

(15:39):
understand the whole nature of how anti gravity technology and
free energy technologies have been kept hidden from us, and
the history is all out there, like even and we'll
talk more about some of these scientific papers because I
want to get your opinion on some of this stuff.
Is the scientific papers has been out there forever too.
I think that when you mentioned Maxwell as well, you'll
find that almost every he discusses Maxwell and they say,

(16:03):
look at Maxwell's equations. This is when we like really
took the next step up. And then I love the
idea too that I've always loved this idea of Roswell
leading to some kind of technological boom, especially with transistors.
I actually looked into transistors and like the history of
this like five or six years ago when I was
first digging into it, going like, man, did we really

(16:24):
like find some alien technology and then just like give
it to some university professors and then say that they
invented it, you know, like it's plausible, it's not out
of the realm of plausibility. Let me ask you a
question on the UFO thing about Roswell specifically. Tucker Carlson
was talking to Clayton Morrison redacted last week actually just
a few days ago, and he brought up this narrative

(16:46):
that I've heard a lot. I like to shoot down
narratives and explain narratives for people that aren't as deep
into this as you and I are. And Tucker Carlson said, well,
if these aliens flew from another galaxy or another star
system or whatever, and they have this advanced technology, how
can they crash? Shouldn't they just be invincible? I hear
this all the time from people, So go ahead, give

(17:08):
me your debunk of the how do UFOs crash? That's
me to do in the air quotes? Yeah, argument, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (17:15):
So there's really only two explanations that I can think of.
One is that it was intentionally crashed to serve as
a trojan horse, to give us a gift of technology
that would end up being like a poison pill that
creates this this this hell world that we're moving into
or we're on the version moving into we still could.
That's one, and the other is that they were shot
down by technology that humans had that was more advanced

(17:39):
than we assume, right, because what we typically hear is, oh,
during wildswell, they're testing what was it like, like like
microwave radars or something, and that destabilized or energy field
and therefore the ship crash. Maybe maybe they weren't expecting
that and therefore they didn't have a counter measure to it,
or or it wasn't even a microwave laser it maybe
it was something that they I mean, they probably already

(18:02):
knew about the non human tech presence on Earth for
a while, maybe maybe even a couple decades, because if
you think about it, there was that disuppose it crashed
and crashed in Italy in the nineteen was the twenties
and thirties, there's some rumors about that, and the Nazis
have their own thing already by that point. So by
the time Roswell happened, there already was a black program.
I mean, the Manhattan Project was already happening years before that, right,

(18:23):
So advanced technology was already being worked on, and of
course it was weaponized, so they probably used it on that.
So that's another potential explanation. And the thing is, no
to come here from another world, even if they do,
maybe their time travelers, maybe they're from an another dimension.
To do that does not require invincibility. It just requires
knowledge of key science and key physics.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
You know.

Speaker 4 (18:46):
It's like it's like, if you don't have the combination
lock to a massive vault, how much effort do you
need to get through those vault doors?

Speaker 3 (18:54):
A ton?

Speaker 1 (18:54):
Right?

Speaker 4 (18:55):
I mean, I don't know, you get like laser cutter
or something to try to get to there. But if
you know what the combination, you just do it and
you're through the door. So the same thing with these
sciences that we're talking about. If you go down that path,
you've got the easy path towards magical abilities. It's not
so the problem is nowadays, if you don't know any better,
you would think that, okay, well, the only way to
time travel, the only way to do these fantastic things

(19:18):
is either through well basically through general relativity. Right, so
you have to do these these giant, massive spinning cylinders
a warp space and time, and for us to build
that is impossible right now, Just know way we could
build something that's massive that spins that fast and warp
space and time. But that's because you're trying to use
the handicapped version of science to do it. If you know,

(19:38):
for example, the relation between an electric field and a
gravitational field, hey, well there you go. You just have
to pump up the electric field and you alter space
and time and voila. Right, you got it. So that's
what the Nazis were doing. I think that's what black
ops are doing, and that's probably what some of these
alien things are doing. That they've got a different kind
of science than what the public has, and therefore it's
way easier for them to do that than for us
to imagine using our intentionally handicapped public science.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
Yeah, and I would say that it's you're right. I
would also say that it's even easier than that is
that you know, just because you've developed this technology doesn't
mean you're invincible.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
That was your I think your strongest argument there.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
It's like, Okay, well I've got this awesome iPhone that's
more powerful than any computer from the nineteen eighties, but
if I put this in a cup of water, it's
going to be destroyed in a few minutes, you know,
So everything has vulnerabilities, and personally, in my opinion, I
hadn't actually heard that. It was like there's possibly a
decoy crashes or what have you. That's certainly possible too.
But you know, if it's got everything's got a weakness,

(20:35):
just like Superman's weakness is kryptonite.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
So if these things.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
Are surfing on gravitational waves, then theoretically, if I shoot
a scaler potential or a gravitational wave at it, or
create a gravitational disturbance around it, it's like pushing somebody
off the surfboard while they're riding on the wave. You
know they're going to fall off. In my opinion, Yeah,
that's great. That's great metaphor because it's not magic that
they're using. They're using technology.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah, it's not. They don't have the infinite the Stone.
They're not just invincible.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
They just realize that there's some extended electrodynamics that we
don't currently accept.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
Now, this I think goes to my next point.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
Really well, which is I always assumed, and I've researched
a lot in the last year since we spoke, that
if there is some suppressed science that's out there that
related to UFO technology. It's gonna be out there to
be found. It's not gonna be like hidden in a
vault in the Vatican or whatever.

Speaker 4 (21:27):
Like.

Speaker 1 (21:27):
People will have been writing about it, writing theories about it,
and I think I found it. So I guess my
first question I'm gonna ask you I just realized, is
you believe UFOs are real. I think we can just
assume that UFOs are real. This is a UFO. What
is the energy source for this UFO? Like recently we've

(21:50):
been talking about there's these UFOs.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
In New Jersey.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
Some of them are clearly just planes, but let's just
assume that some of these are UFOs and they're floating
around in the sky for over a day's straight and
they're just hovering there. In your opinion, Tom, what could
be the energy source that allows this to be possible?

Speaker 2 (22:09):
Right?

Speaker 4 (22:09):
So if you if you asked me, h, let's say
we have a shadow military anti gravity craft that's there
and it's staying in the sky for days, and if
you ask me what is it's power source? That would
be easier to talk about because then we are strictly
operating within the realm of hard science. Even if it
is fringe science. Okay, we're still operating within the realm
of science. Not to get too far off topic, but

(22:31):
once we start talking about potential aliens or non human
intelligences any ties. When we started talking about that so earlier,
remember you mentioned what was like science, electrical engineering, and history.
If you know those three things, you can figure out
a lot of this. Those those are the three Those
are like three legs of a table. That's a minimum
minimum you need to have a stable table, right, But
you can have four legs in a five six legs,

(22:52):
So what are those other legs? Well, in my opinion,
some of those other legs might include occultism, mysticism, right,
stuff involving sigh power, subtle energies, etheric energy. So when
we talk about the ether, we're not just talking about
zero point energy vacuum fields. We're talking about something that's
even more fundamental than that, that ties into it, and
that gets more into the realm of consciousness. So when

(23:14):
people asktra project or they got near death experiences, or
they experienced telepathy or synchronicity or all these things, it's
still not magic. However, it's not exactly hard science anymore either,
because for example, take a synchronicity. Okay, when you get
a synchronicity, if you get enough of them, you start realizing,
We'll wait a minute. Reality cannot be this cold, deterministic

(23:35):
machine that the university physicists tell us that it is.
There's something more going on. It almost acts more like
a collective dream, with waking dream symbols that communicate something
meaningful to you, symbolic. And when it comes to symbolism
and symbolic and meaning like meaning like the meaning of
something that's no longer mathematical, you can't really map that
out using variables because it's not mechanical. It is numinous,

(23:59):
it is it is involving meanings, it's semantic. Okay, So
it's a different field of dynamics than physics. So in
my personal opinion, not to jump too far ahead, but
I think that reality actually does consist of two parts.
One part is the programmed physics like side of it,
the deterministic, mathematical geometrical stuff. Everything that you and I

(24:21):
have been talking about so far, that's what that is,
and you can study it, you can engineer it, you
can apply it. However, there is another component which deals
more with like you could call it like the right brain.

Speaker 3 (24:30):
Of the matrix, or whatever you want to call it.

Speaker 4 (24:32):
It's where it's more symbolic, more meaningful, non mathematical, non
necessarily geometric, Okay, And that's also a component of reality.
And the reason why I bring this up is because
it seems to me that after a civilization master's physical technology,
the only thing left to master really is consciousness itself
and these subtle energy fields that are almost like the

(24:54):
underlying HTML code or machine code of reality. So if
you run a physics emulation program on your computer, hey,
all the physics are there, right, it's hard physics.

Speaker 3 (25:04):
You can simulate this.

Speaker 4 (25:04):
You can simulate agnetic fields, electric fields, and all the
math works out. But guess what the entire thing is
running on machine code, which isn't even physics, it's just
a software. It's programming. So I do think that perhaps
reality has a similar dynamic going on, where you have
the actual physics, but it's all programmed. And if you
know the programming, sure you can you can work within
that physics. You can engineer things, you know, make you

(25:26):
can program something to fly around. And so I think
that some of these non human intelligences, some of them
are only operating within the physics realm, and that includes
a lot of these shadow military projects. They're they're using
fringe science to do it, okay, and that's that's totally fine. However,
that other component of reality some of these nhis so
they probably have mastery over consciousness and the underlying matrix

(25:48):
code to such an extent that they can probably reprogram
physics itself directly from from the root source code in
order to hover or levitate or you know, teleport or
something like that. And if you don't have that conscious ability,
well guess what, you're stuck using regular physics. And that's
what the shadow military groups have and that's probably what
some of these less less advanced alien groups also have.

(26:10):
So right, So, once again, going back to your question,
we asked me what makes it hover? I think in
some in some cases it is probably I don't want
to call it magic, but it is.

Speaker 3 (26:20):
It's a little bit beyond physics.

Speaker 4 (26:22):
You call it quantum consciousness, reprogramming of etheric energy fields
or something like that. That's the one thing, and then
the other thing that's that's more like the hard science,
and that's what we can talk about more because that's mappable.
That's what you can write scientific papers about, you know.
And so as far as energy sources go, and obviously
it has to be the zero point energy field, it
has to be that clearly, right.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
I waited that whole time just to hear the final
thing that I want to hear, the zero point energy field.
The only thing I would disagree with you on is
that I think it all is real hard physics. I
think we're just not ready to the point to accept
some of it. I think that the logical conclusion if
there is a zero point energy field filled with energy
that's out there in ether etheric energy you mentioned, I

(27:03):
actually love that term etheric energy. To me, that's what
consciousness is coming from. I mean, it's just like there's
not there's not that much stuff out there. So to me,
it's like if there's this energy field that we don't see,
but it's always there, omnipresent everywhere around us, everywhere in
the entire universe. I mean, there's got to be a
connection there. It seems like it's avoidable. And then this

(27:24):
is what I would say to you. You mentioned a lot
about simulation theory, et cetera. So do you believe in
the holographic principle, and do you want to explain that
concept to people just briefly.

Speaker 4 (27:35):
Yeah, So there's different there's different versions of the holographic principle.
Like on the one hand, you have Leonard Suskind, and
he wrote a book about the well, he wrote some
papers about the holographic theory of reality, but he's talking
more about basically a fourth dimensional black hole that we
exist on the surface of. And so just as you
can have a two dimensional sheet of photographic film that

(27:56):
has a holographic image and printed onto it and looks
three dimensional even though it's a two dimensional sheet, well,
our three D space time with the dimension of time
added to it, which is fourth dimensions, could actually be
embedded in a higher space. But it's actually like the
flat plane within that higher space, and we're just holograms
within that.

Speaker 3 (28:11):
And I think there is truth to that.

Speaker 4 (28:15):
But that's still one hundred that's still mostly a physical model.
So there might still I think, in my opinion, there's
just still could be a consciousness component to some extent. However,
I do think that the more science advances and the
more metaphysics advances, the more they converge upon a single
true unified science. So so it's it's a matter of
semantics and philosophy. You know, if you're saying that it's

(28:37):
all science, and I'm saying, oh no, it's partly metaphysics
is actually more of a semantic issue than an actual
factual issue.

Speaker 3 (28:42):
You know, what do we call this? How do we
call it?

Speaker 1 (28:44):
Yeah? Yeah, I mean that's my view is like, okay, well,
if there is this ether, and just like you said,
I fully believe the holographic principle. You did a great
job of explaining it in my opinion, which is just
this idea that on this extra dimension we're all maybe
even one point the idea of like the one Lin theory,
and therefore everything is right next to each other, which
means the distance as we perceive, it's just a projection,

(29:07):
an illusion that we perceive, and that opens the door
to a lot of stuff that's considered esoteric, like remote viewing.
I think, the idea of consciousness and what even is life?
Maybe we're all the same person, a lot of that.
So I just find those theories to be quite elegant,
and I find that physics theories that are elegant usually
have the most merit generally, a lot of this stuff

(29:29):
really is more simple than what people expect.

Speaker 4 (29:31):
Yeah, yeah, And you know what people have to keep
in mind is with a holographic principle. That's pretty much
what quantum physics is when they talk about wave functions.
Wave functions are patterns of amplitude and phase in space,
and if the conscious observer interacts with it, oh, a
single particle appears, or a system, an atom, whatever it appears. Well,
that's how hologram works. It's a collection of amplitude and

(29:52):
phase that's distributed over space, and when you shine a
laser into it, it kind of decodes it, It gets
modulated by it, and it generates a seemingly three to
mentional object that isn't actually truly there.

Speaker 3 (30:02):
It's all informational.

Speaker 4 (30:03):
So quantum physics and holographic theory, I think there is
basically the same thing.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
Everything.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
Being informational really opens the door to a lot of stuff,
especially just the idea of teleportation, because it's like, now,
what even am I? If I'm just a group of information,
then that information can go through a wormhole. Like Leonard
Suskin would argue, there's another theory that I don't know
if you watch my Salvator Pais interview. He's I think

(30:31):
been alluding to this concept that I just was listening
to the seam here me and talk to Danica Patrick
about this idea that inside each proton is a tiny
black hole.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
Have you heard that at all? What are your thoughts
on that?

Speaker 4 (30:45):
Yeah, I think it makes sense. I was thinking about
this earlier tonight because I was thinking about I was
thinking about gravity as an ether.

Speaker 3 (30:51):
Flow, you know.

Speaker 4 (30:53):
And see the problem is a lot of people think
about gravity as rights. Imagine you got the Earth, okay,
Earth as a as a spheroid, okay, and imagine gravity
being an ether flow coming in from other radio spatial
directions and pushing pushing objects into it.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (31:07):
And that might be true, But it doesn't have to
be that, not if we consider it from a fifth
dimensional perspective, where perhaps instead of ether flowing in to it,
it's more like at each height above the ground, you know. Yeah,
there's a different ether flow into time into a fifth dimension,
So it might actually be flow perpendicular to what we

(31:28):
perceive a space. And there's different flow rates depending on
the gravitational potential. So the closer art to the ground,
the faster it flows or the slower it flow is
depending on how you view it. So, yeah, so I
do think that that ether flow it relates to time
in some way and also to gravity for sure.

Speaker 1 (31:48):
Yeah, I mean, isn't it just simpler than that. It's
just a matter of energy density, right, And the more
energy density in a region you're going to have, you're
gonna create a flow. So if you have less energy
density region in this space right here than you have
in this space, I expect there to be a flow
where things are moving towards that, just like it's just
thermo dynamics, just hot moves to cold, right.

Speaker 4 (32:09):
So yeah, yeah, right right, and that might actually be so.
So basically, you can have let's say two points, this
this one here in the frame. So this one here
it might actually be flowing quickly through time, and this
one here it might be flowing slowly through time into
the fifth dimension into the fourth dimension. But if there's
a difference between them, then there could be a transfer

(32:29):
through space as well, not just time. And so then
to our eyes we see an actual flow, you know,
from along the x axes or waxes or z axis
or whatever. Even though the flow is going from a
point to another point, where each of these points are
flowing into the fourth and fifth dimension at their own
different rates, you know, So we we're talking about a
fourth or fifth dimensional space of ether and flows that

(32:50):
had that happened within that. So it's almost like some
sort of a hyperdimensional fluid dynamics situation, I think, And
I think some of that is needed to explain physics
phenomena that a simple oh you know, everything flowing into
a ball might not necessarily always account for.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
So you think the black hole idea at the center
of the protons somehow feeds into that theory.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
Is that what you believe?

Speaker 4 (33:11):
Yeah, I think so, because the center of any mass
is where all the gravity is pointing towards right. So
if gravity is a kind of flow, you would think that, well,
it has to go somewhere. So what if there is
an actual spatial flow. So if if all this ether
is flowing down and down into the center of every
single mass, then where does it go once it reaches
at It has to go through a higher dimension and

(33:31):
then back out into regions of no matter, you know,
into other other positions in the universe. And actually, Paula
Violet Paul of Violet. One of his theories is that
when you have a galaxy here and again in a
galaxy there. When you got two galaxies, that space in
between them actually has a positive gravitational potential. It's not zero,

(33:52):
It actually bows out a little bit. So there's actually
as it's equivalent to negative mass or negative energy to
get this positive gravitational potential bump in between two gravity wells. Okay,
so because by physical convention, whenever you have a mass,
the closer you get to the mass, the more negative
the gravitational potential becomes. But in between large groups groupings

(34:14):
of masses, there's actually a positive gravitational potential. So maybe
that positive corresponds to where the energy that flows into
these black holes in side protons or whatever is re
emitted out from a higher dimension into the vacuum of
space into the zero point energy field somehow, and that
creates like a positive gravitational potential. But so I'm just

(34:34):
talking about a flow loop that has to go through
a higher dimension in order to account for where the
ether flow even goes.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
Do you think then in that model that energy is
like a cyclical system, much like the water table on Earth,
where energy is coming from the ether and going back
to the ether eventually.

Speaker 4 (34:52):
Yeah, that's yeah, that's very possible. I will say that
even within mainstream physics, it is well well known that
energy involves cycling of something. Something on a quantum level
is cycling, and that is what energy is. And actually
the cycling within quantum physics they would call this quantum phase.
So the quantum phase value is cycling like a clock.

(35:12):
It's spinning like a clock. It's going from zero to
three sixty degrees, you know, zero three sixty degrees, and
it's spinning round and round and round. And the faster
it spins, the more energy is present at that point.
So when you talk about energy density, energy density is
equivalent to the density of faster cycling rates. Okay, so
that's what energy is. It deals with cycling through time,

(35:33):
getting through time. But momentum momentum within physics, that has
to do with cycling through space. So when you get
a spatial wave quantum wave traced down in space, that
corresponds to momentum. But if it traces out through time
as a kind of oscillation, that's to do with energy.
So energy momentum. There are two sides of the same coin,
and they have to do with the cycling of something
something they don't know exactly what it is, but they

(35:57):
think it's Actually they don't know what it is. They
just call a quantum phase and they say, oh, it
spins this way through space and this way through time.
That's that's energy and that's momentum. And then so you know,
it's this kind of self referential how they describe reality,
Like they don't really know what work is or energy
or force or gravity. They explain everything in terms of
everything else, and they sign terms to it, and they
don't ever go to asking the fundamental questions like what

(36:17):
actually is energy, what actually is time?

Speaker 3 (36:19):
What is gravity? They don't because they can't.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
It's like it's like Nicola Tesla and Nicola Tesla invented
alternating current. Nicola Tesla was a real person, by the way,
Guys I used to think he was a myth. All
he figured out was that if you take a copper
wire and spin it through a magnetic field, current begins
to flow. No, and people say like, oh, well, you're
just converting the kinetic energy into electrical energy. What the
hell does that mean? Like what's the conversion rate? Like

(36:45):
what are you talking about there?

Speaker 2 (36:46):
Is that? So if a wind is spinning a.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
Turbine, is the wind converting into electrical energy? That's not
is it really converting? Like from a conceptual perspective, it
makes sense you say, well, whatever energy I did here,
that I'm going to get energy out of it. But
from a broader philosophical perspective, it doesn't really make any sense.
You realize that what's really happening in an alternating current

(37:10):
is that time is moving forward, and time is causing
the coil to be flipped, and that's causing the current
to flow. It's crazy to me that the most fundamental
question there is has not really ever been answered, which
is where is energy even coming from? Where's the energy
for these lights right here coming from?

Speaker 2 (37:30):
You know? So where do you think?

Speaker 1 (37:31):
So you think then that the energy must be coming
from the ether? Do you think all energy is coming
from there?

Speaker 3 (37:37):
In a way?

Speaker 4 (37:38):
In a way, I think it's coming from time. But
time in a way is synonymous with ether. Like what's
his name? Kazero of the Russian researcher he was he's
researching etheric energy, you know, entropy, time and gravity, and
he related all those to each other. You know, he
said that they're all part of the same system, the
same complex. But I do think that etheric energy or

(37:59):
energy general does involve motion through the hologram you could
call it.

Speaker 3 (38:03):
It's some sort of hologram.

Speaker 4 (38:05):
So so imagine, you know, it's like with like with animation,
the old the old school, the old school animation. We
got different slides and you take a picture of each one, right,
and you do that. Yeah, so you can take all
those slides or those all those those sheets and lay
them out spatially, and you've got yourself a spatial pattern.
But when you play them through time, now you've got motion.
And you call this motion kinetic energy, right, But really

(38:27):
it's a spatial pattern that's become animated. So time and space,
you know, time and space they are at right angles,
they're orthogonal, you know. But but you know there there
are two sides of the same coin, and that you
can be in between. One could be more of one
or the other, and largely it depends on perspective.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
Right.

Speaker 4 (38:41):
So if you have if you have an electron and
it's stationary relative to you, it's got an electric field
around it, and it's one hundred percent electric but if
you move past it, all of a sudden, part of
that field becomes magnetic to you, so you know, or
if you take a magnet or a magnetic field and
you move in a certain way, then part of it
becomes electric. So there are things within physics, quantum physics

(39:03):
where if you look at it from the viewpoint of
space time, fourth dimension, the fourth dimensional field, where you've
got space here, you got time here, that entire thing.
You've got these static patterns on here, static patterns. But
when you yourself as the observer, moved through time, then
it actually animates as motion or electricity, converting into magnetism
or whatever. In other words, there are deeper dynamics going

(39:23):
on that explain physics. But the thing is, even if
you ask a physicists, well then why does that happen?

Speaker 3 (39:29):
Okay, well, then why does that happen?

Speaker 4 (39:30):
And someone you keep drilling down, at some point there's
going to go They're gonna throw the hands up, They're like,
I don't know, I don't know. I've reached the limits
of my language, my conception, of my assumptions. I can't
go any further. And at that point it becomes a
philosophical speculation as to what's actually going on. But yeah,
it's wrong. It's wrong to say that physics is an
explanation of reality.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
It's not.

Speaker 4 (39:49):
It's a hypothesis. It's a model of reality. It's an approximation. Yeah, yeah,
physics is the model.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
Engineering is the practical experimentation and observation.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
You know.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
So we should be looking at engineers to show us
what's possible, and then physicists to show us to explain
how it's how it is possible. But for some reason,
it feels like it's the opposite. Let me ask you
with zero point energy? Have you read Are you familiar
with how Pudov's work?

Speaker 2 (40:17):
Yeah? Yeah, alleged.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
Because it feels like I looked at his papers since
we last spoke, and to all the questions you just
brought up about, well, is this zero point energy, this
ether explaining gravity, mass, inertia, his papers say yes, it
explains all of these things. It's not just him, but
he also wrote some papers with Bernard hash and Ruda

(40:41):
as well, and some of them wrote papers by themselves.
It's clear these guys all know each other. So the
crazy part is their papers go back to the eighties.
The first one from how Pudoff was nineteen eighty seven,
which was the ground state of the hydrogen atom, and
he asks the question, why is the hydrogen and adam
not radiate energy at rest? And it seems kind of

(41:04):
counterintuitive at first because you think, well, it's at rest,
it's not supposed to radiate energy. But then from the
quantum mechanic perspective we look at it, we realize that
nothing's ever really at rest. From the quantum mechanic perspective,
if you were to take a pendulum in quantum mechanics,
it never stops. Even you know, we look at something
it looks like it's stopped, but it's never really stopped.
So the conclusion he came to is that, well, it

(41:26):
must be interacting with a field of energy where it's
gaining energy and losing energy at the same rate and equilibrium,
and that's why it doesn't appear to be radiated energy.
He followed it up two years later and wrote what
I think is probably gonna end up be in a
legendary paper in history, which is gravity as a zero
point fluctuation for us, where he's basically saying that the

(41:48):
relative energy densities that are out there create this pressure
that we know of as gravity, which was basically what
you just explained a second ago regarding this etheric flow.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
Yeah, he just says it's.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
A matter of relative energy densities, which that was me
just kind of stealing his arguments. And then it was
Haitian Ruta later on that came up and said, well,
this also explains inertia, Like why do we feel resistance
when we're moving even through outer space where there's no gravity?
Why do I feel resistance? Well, the answer is because

(42:22):
you're moving through this field, like you would say with
the hologram. It's like you're moving through the hologram, and
when you do that, this is we feel. This resistance
is there, and if you were to remove that zero
point field, then you're not going to feel that resistance anymore.
They also said that this zero point feels what gives
us mass. That's the reason why we have mass at all,

(42:43):
Otherwise we would have no mass. What do you think
about how putoff you think that those theories are sound?
I mean, this guy is connected to the UFO topic
in a way that I never could have anticipated.

Speaker 3 (42:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (42:57):
Yeah, so I like a lot of what he's written,
but I'm also equally suspicious because someone who's that well
connected and that's smart is also capable of putting out
bs to throw people off track. So I'm careful. I'm
careful when I read this stuff. I'm like, yes, this
makes sense, but I'm going to reserve it's a little
bit of sault, just just to make sure, you know,
just to make sure that I don't swallow it fully.
And I mean the same goes with with anyone else

(43:18):
that that's involved in the higher level stuff that has
secret connections. You know, they could be running interference for
black programs by throwing people off track. They could be,
but it's up to us to understand it and to
see if that is a case or not. I mean,
it's not a good idea to have a blanket suspicion
and just not believe anything. If you're not gonna believe something,
if you can have suspicion about it, explain why, like,

(43:39):
find out why what is off about it? And if
you can't find anything, then hey, guess what it checks out.
So so that that's how I've been with how put off,
And I mean I like that he is. He's open
minded enough to explore things like the vector potential and
the scaler potential, the force free version of those that
don't lead to magnetic and electric fields, the stuff that
I talked about in my last podcast with you. So

(44:02):
he does talk about that, and he talked about it
decades ago, you know, So he's one of those one
of those guys.

Speaker 3 (44:06):
It was him.

Speaker 4 (44:06):
I mean, there's others like Tom Bearden, who's you know,
talked at nauseum about that.

Speaker 3 (44:11):
Sort of thing.

Speaker 4 (44:12):
So it's a thing that keeps popping up, but it
never really broaches into the mainstream. For for good reason,
you know, because because academia is sort of a it's
it's gate gatekeeper, you know, it's gate keeped. So there's
just really no way to penetrate it. But but you've
seen his patent by by any chance, yeah, the yeah,
the vector potential communication system.

Speaker 3 (44:30):
Is that the one you're talking about?

Speaker 1 (44:31):
Oh wait, let me yeah, this one right here. So
I'm just going to read it for the people listening.
Just called first of all, just called communication system. If
you're trying so, you know, I agree with you, you
have we have to be skeptical and we should be
judging arguments based on their merits, also not based on
if somebody did remote viewing in the seventies or whatever.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
Crap too.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
But when someone's putting disinformation out there, I don't think
they usually call us their pat in something really vague
like communication system like what and so then you read
it and I want to get your take on this.
I've said my take many times. But a communication system
using vector and scalar potential is disclosed. The system uses

(45:09):
field free potentials like you just said signaling for many
applications where the absence of shielding effects in seawater, plasma,
or other dense media due to the fact that the
absence of the electric and magnetic fields eliminates the possibility
of induced charge and current response in the media being transited.
So real quick before I let you jump in here,

(45:31):
is that when I read that, it says we're using
field potentials that have no electric and magnetic field like
the Airnhoff Bom effect, transmitting a scalar potential through the
ether through the zero point energy field, and we're doing
it because electromagnetic fields are blocked by seawater and plasma,

(45:52):
which mean says this is a communication device for communicating
with a submarine, or communicating with the sun, or something
some plants of all. Right, last thing I'll say is
that this patent is not just one. There's five different
patents with different patent numbers, all are the exact same thing,
and they date all the way back to nineteen ninety three, yep.

(46:14):
And I found a news article about this patent and
the mainstream academics were up in arms about it. They
were insessed over the fact that this patent had been approved.
They claimed that it was pseudoscience and that the patent
officer must not have known what they were talking about
to approve this patent. But we can see it's been

(46:34):
approved four o their time since then, most recently in
twenty twenty one. So what is your thoughts on this pattern?

Speaker 3 (46:41):
I know, I think it's legit.

Speaker 4 (46:42):
I mean, it's just it just uses an expanded version
of Maxwell's equations. Really, I mean, that's that's all it is.
Because so the Maxwell's equations that we know nowadays, what
they are is they relate electric charge to electric fields,
electric fields to magnetic fields when they're both in motion
and so on. So they relate one electromagnetic thing another. Okay,
but thing is to get to that form, they had

(47:03):
to cut out a lot of other things that were implied,
but they were like, well, that stuff isn't physical, so
let's just set it to zero or make them cancel
each other out, so we don't have to worry about
that stuff. You know, it's all imaginary anyway, we can't measure,
we can't prove it.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
It's it's it.

Speaker 4 (47:15):
Doesn't doesn't matter, so let's only focus on this little part.
And that became the four Maxwell's equations, and that's what's
taught to every physics and electrical engineering student nowadays in college. Okay,
and and they take it for granted, you know, to them,
it's like the Ten commandments.

Speaker 3 (47:29):
They don't question it. They just follow it, okay.

Speaker 4 (47:31):
And and so when you when you tell them that, hey,
you know, what you're taught is false or it's incomplete,
they're like, oh my god, that's blasphemy.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
Right.

Speaker 4 (47:39):
So, so a lot of these scientists, you know, they're
they're criticizing religion for not being rigorous, but they themselves
act like priests, you know, they're they act like Pharisees
or something. So anyway, the point is, if you expand
Maxwell's equations and you don't use what's called the cool
engauge or the Lorentz gauge. If you don't use those things,
which is just those are ways of setting the divergence
of the magnetic vector potential to zero. Okay, that's called

(48:03):
the cool engage, or setting it to be the opposite
of the partial time derivative of the voltage with respect
to time. Either way, either either cancel the scale effects
out or you set them both to zero, and you're
only left with ordinary, non scalar physics. And that's what
electro magnetic theory is nowadays. So anyway, if you don't
do that, and you leave those things intact, and you
leave them alone, and you incorporate those scaler things, then

(48:26):
what you realize is, well, wait a minute, I can
create fields that don't have an electric field associated with
it or a magnetic field.

Speaker 3 (48:31):
Associated with it.

Speaker 4 (48:32):
All you have is a more deeper fundamental vector potential
and scalar potential that normally give rise to those other fields,
those main fields that we know. But in this case
you're not. You're not giving rise to them. You're just
leaving them alone and having them be what they are.
So I sort of got into this in my last
interview with you, where I talked about how the electric

(48:53):
scalar potential when there's a gradient in it, because remember
earlier were talking about when you get like like a
different and thing, you get to flow between it.

Speaker 3 (49:00):
Say the same thing.

Speaker 4 (49:00):
If you've got one voltage here and you got like
a lower voltage there, then you have a gradient in
between them, and that gradient creates an electric force field.
So you can you can think, right, yeah, yeah, yes, yeah,
So the electric force field, you can think of it
as a kind of accelerating ether flow. You know, between
a positive charge and a negative charge.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
That's that's an asymmetry and a diepole too, right, any
situation where you've got more charge on one side than
you've got on the other side, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:25):
Well yeah, yeah, yes, yes.

Speaker 4 (49:27):
And also if you have a dipole where you got
like a positive charge or negative charge. If so, imagine
one is like a like a leaf flower and the
other one's like a vacuum cleaner. Right, so on one's
blowing and the other one is stuck in air. If
you mount them on a stick and just leave them alone,
they're actually gonna move through the air because it creates
like a flow around the entire thing, like a like
a smoke ring, a solenoid, and a smoke ring travels

(49:48):
through the air because it's sort of like like like
swimming its way through the air. That's that's what a
smoke ring does.

Speaker 2 (49:53):
Why smokerings are doing that?

Speaker 1 (49:55):
And in a way, I realize that there's a lot
more to smoke rings than what people have assumed, Like
there's a specific reason for why smoke rings form the
way that they do and the fractal nature when they
kind of fall apart as well.

Speaker 4 (50:08):
Yeah, and you saw videos, right, you probably showed it
to your audience where smokings collide.

Speaker 3 (50:12):
Yeah, yeah, it's.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
Super cool watch them Colyde and then they have this
like ninety degree like where they make a smaller fractal
version of themselves. And it's consistent.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
But every single time, what I wanted to ask on.

Speaker 1 (50:27):
The Thomas Townson Brown, Actually, let's go I want to
actually change gears here for a second. Actually I want
to ask you before I forget, and then I want
to jump in and show you a video.

Speaker 2 (50:39):
What did you think about the UFO hearing?

Speaker 1 (50:41):
So, given all this information, this knowledge about science, your
understanding of this technology, your research into it, your research
into the alien phenomenon non human intelligence.

Speaker 2 (50:53):
What do you think about that hearing?

Speaker 4 (50:55):
I think it's a I think it's it's a token
gesture towards the idea of disclosure, because if they really
wanted to, if they really wanted.

Speaker 3 (51:03):
Disclosure, they could do it. You know, they probably could.

Speaker 4 (51:06):
But the thing is they put it out there in
these little crumbs to so these people that are giving testimonies, right,
they can only say so much before they start running
into national security issues and NDAs.

Speaker 3 (51:20):
That they've signed.

Speaker 4 (51:20):
And that's why they're always like, well, I can tell
you about this, but now I'll tell you about it
in a skiff, because you know.

Speaker 3 (51:25):
The secured things.

Speaker 4 (51:26):
And then when they finally get into the skiff, they
give them some bs, and then when they come out
of it, people ask, well, what did he say in
the skiff? And then well, we can't talk about it
because it's it's you know, it's classified. So so the
Congress people they get blocked, and these people testifying they
can only say so much, even in a skiff, you know,
So it's ultimately I think it's a clown show.

Speaker 3 (51:46):
I think it's so. On the one hand, it does
add an air of.

Speaker 4 (51:49):
Credibility to the UFO subject, like, oh, there's people in
uniform talking about what they've seen. And I guess for
the normies of the people that are getting into eupology
for the first time, it's good for them, like introduces
it softens them, softens them up to the idea that hey,
there's really something going on.

Speaker 3 (52:04):
So that's good.

Speaker 4 (52:05):
But for like the seasoned eupology researchers, we're like, oh
my god, this is so elementary, like why are you
not going where you should be going? Okay, but to
their credit, they are going further than they ever have before,
like all these other prior UFO flaps and stuff going
back decades and decades.

Speaker 3 (52:22):
Yeah, it's it's more.

Speaker 4 (52:24):
But then again, I mean you think about like Stephen
Greer and the Disclosure Project in the early two thousands,
some of those yeah, yeah, yeah, some of those witnesses
that came on and talk about things. That's a way
beyond even what's going on currently in these congressional things.
But then again, the current congressional thing is more official
because back then it was more like some oh okay,
just get some publicity, put them in Congress and have

(52:44):
a big appearance of it. But nowadays, it's a little
bit more has more teeth nowadays, but still not fully there.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
What do you think the national security issue is that
they can't talk about? By the way, I totally agree
with you that the big issue with a lot of
these guys is that I don't think they're necessarily dishonest people,
but they've just run into competing incentives where they now
have NDAs. They can't speak about stuff. They would literally
go to prison over it. What do you think they're hiding?

Speaker 4 (53:08):
A couple of things. One advanced technology, including admitting to
what degree they themselves have some of that advanced technology.
Because the thing is, if there have been crash retrievals,
as David Grish and all these others have been talking about,
there are crash retrievals, well who retrieved it, shadow military,
the secret government, they've been using it, and so therefore,
if they've been using it, have they developed some of
that technology? And the answer is yes, And the next

(53:30):
question is what have they been doing with that technology?
What about these military abductions? I use portal technology and
for my control purposes and sexual trafficking purposes and so on,
web gun running and all that. Well, it leads also
to a lot of liability because they used it to
get up to a lot of no good, you know,
a lot of illegal things and not to mention, not
to mention, and I'm not the first one to point

(53:52):
this out. Others have pointed it out that if you
have one company like Lockheed Martin or something that gets
access to this tech, but then another group like I
don't know, Boeing or something did not get access because
they weren't in with the crowd.

Speaker 3 (54:04):
Well, in Lockheed Martin, they've get over the years, they.

Speaker 4 (54:06):
Get billions and billions and billions of dollars of profits
from that, whereas the other ones might have to shutter
their doors because they didn't. Right, So if that truth
were to come out about what really happened, they would
have grounds to sue based on you know this, this
this preferential treatment.

Speaker 3 (54:20):
So there's a huge, huge, huge liability risk to any
of this coming out to all the people that were
up to no good in this field. So you got that.
You got also just the fact that the.

Speaker 4 (54:31):
Whole like ontological shock to humanity, it's not just the
existence of aliens that's the issue. It is what they
have been doing potentially in collusion with certain black ops groups,
illegal stuff, stuff that is just inhuman and if that
were to come out, yeah, it would. It would rock
a lot of people's worlds. And also the economic consequences
like free energy, anti gravity and all that would it

(54:51):
would wreck It would wreck most of the economy right now.
You know, maybe for good in the long run, but
in the short term, Yeah, I would get really ugly.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
Was I actually going to ask you like or I
was going to bring up the question about the civil
liability because he asked the criminal liabilities one big assa.
That's the flashy aspect by who have they been killing, silencing,
quieting these free energy engineers and stuff like that. But
there's a less nefarious side of it too, which is
the civil liability, which is that, oh, maybe it's not
just the government in the military with this technology. What

(55:22):
if it's the defense contractors, And what if we gave
Lockheed Martin this technology like fifty years ago. Now we're
in a sea of crap where it's like, how do
we get out of this without?

Speaker 2 (55:34):
You know, and there's.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
People who are accountable and responsible for a lot of
of this stuff that happened, like the amount of legal
issues are just huge. And then the bigger thing too,
I love that you didn't bring up aliens at all,
even though you're somebody that absolutely, I think believes that
aliens are there's alien phenomenon happening here. Is that you
look at and you realize that aliens aren't a national

(55:56):
security issue. Of course, I mean at a higher political level,
it's a it's a political issue that you have to
deal with, but unless they're threatening to destroy our country,
it's not really a national security issue. The national security
issue is the impact of the technology, like you pointed out,
like what would free energy do to our society? Potentially

(56:16):
would change everything if we could leave the planet and
go through a portal to Mars or Andromeda or somewhere,
Like what does that do to our civilization? And those
are the positive outlooks. There's people as well, and I
want to get your thoughts on this, which is sal Pais,
in a statement that he made and then also in

(56:38):
the interview I did with him as well, really alluded
to this idea that we've been developing technology to basically
fight back against non human intelligence using a form of
their technology that we have advanced in a way that
they won't be prepared for I thought that was a
pretty crazy idea, but I've learned to not doubt the

(56:59):
man at this point. And it speaks to this idea
of a prison planet that basically we've been reset, or
we are being held down, and maybe after we reach
a certain level of technological advancement, income the others and
reset us back down to zero. What is your thoughts
on that philosophy, that mindset.

Speaker 4 (57:22):
Yeah, so the thing is, our technological progress has been
it's definitely been accelerating, and I think, as I mentioned earlier,
it would have still continued even without any help by
non human intelligences. I guess I think we're still going
to accelerate upwards. And the problem is when we get
beyond a certain point, we start infringing on their asymmetric
power advantage. Okay, I'm talking about these these alien civizations

(57:45):
or factions or something. So we become a threat, but
at the same time, for some of these highly efficient
predatory factions, we also become an opportunity because if we
become sufficiently technologically advanced and they gain control of us,
then we are advanced to run our own prison planet
for them. You know, once we got satellites. When we've

(58:06):
got ships in our brains and you know, cameras everywhere
AI monitoring our every move and our every thought. We
lock ourselves down and so we kind of, you know,
wrap ourselves up in this in this this birthday wrapping paper,
put a bow on it and hand it over to
this controlling alien civilization. And they don't have to lift
a finger. I mean, you know, to be highly intelligent

(58:26):
and highly efficient and highly predatory, that's what that would involve.
It wouldn't involve like like doing a Blitzkreek on a
planet and taking.

Speaker 3 (58:33):
It by force.

Speaker 4 (58:34):
You wuld do it through subtle manipulation, but possibly over centuries,
you know, manipulating religions, belief systems, political ideologies. I mean,
for all I know, Marxism was invented by something non
human to fool humans. You know, something something smarter has
to fool humans in order to create something that fools
most smart humans. And the same thing with like string
theory for example, right string theory was his name Witten

(58:55):
or something like that. The people that came up with it,
oh man, they had to be so smart to come
up with that theory. But if the theory is false,
and if it is deceptive, then they have to be
even smarter than these these one hundred and sixty IQ
PhDs that study string theory for their entire careers. You
know what I mean, You got to be smarter than
the smartest humans. Yeah, yeah, so and so so the
deception system that is in place, whether we're talking about archaeology, genetics, physics,

(59:20):
you know, technology engineering, it is so well crafted that
to me, it seems to me that it would have
to have an even higher superior intelligence to craft it
to fool our best and brightest for so long, you know.
So that's another reason why I do think that aliens
might have had a hand in, you know, some of
the suppression, because obviously they would. They would also stand

(59:40):
to lose from us developing let's say, free energy, anti gravity,
because when we'd be able to go to their territories,
we'd become problems for them. Right We've become problems for them,
whereas right now we're nicely tucked away on this little
blue marble and we're not really a problem, and we're
like a We're like a nice fish pond that they
just come by and take a little fish out when

(01:00:00):
they need to. And but once the fish grow legs
and start arming themselves with guns and start you know,
going on their lines, and that becomes a problem.

Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
So what scares me though about that is that it, yeah,
like it makes sense, is that you would wait until
they reached a level where they're a threat and then
you would just come down and wipe them out. Or
if you're smart, you don't even need to use force,
like you said, you just manipulate, psychologically, manipulate the movements

(01:00:27):
of the civilization, kind of like in the first Batman
Batman Begins movie where the evil organizations like, we used
a new weapon economics to take down civilizations, and you
look at what the CIA already does, and you go,
they already do these activities.

Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
The CIA guy, Kevin Ship, he was just on with
Candice Owens. He even mentioned that image U seven zero videos,
and right before he did, he mentioned how the CIA's
basic motto is like it's a matter of plausible deniability.
They can do anything they want as long as they
don't make the government look bad. And you realize something

(01:01:06):
like that is possible, and you go, well, why not
non human intelligence? Maybe they are manipulating us behind the
scenes from the shadows, like the little puppet masters, so
to speak. It even speaks to Plato's cave, you know,
the shadows on the walls instead of seeing the true reality.

Speaker 3 (01:01:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:01:22):
Well, well, you know what, before we move on, like
think about this, we talk about we think about the
government or the shadow military reverse engineering alien technologies. Right,
so that's pretty much accepted with an euthology that sort
of thing is happening. But what about them reverse engineering
alien methods of control, psychological control, cultural control, you know,

(01:01:43):
political maneuvering, and so on. What if they learned from
that as well and are applying it to us. Maybe
that is part of the basis of why the CIA
operates the way it does. You know, I mean, CIA
traces back to well to several things, but but also
some of the Nazis that were brought over from World
War Two. There's a lot of rumors about the Nazis
having had interactions with non human beings to get some

(01:02:06):
of their technology and so on, and that's why they
accelerated so quickly between like nineteen thirty and nineteen forties.
Who knows who I mean, maybe there's something uh something
to that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
Yeah, the Nazi thing is really interesting to me. It
was something that I wanted to dismiss as kind of
a conspiratorial people are trying to connect dots that don't exist.
But then you find out about Operation paper Clip, and
you find out like Friedberg. Win Winnenberg was one of
the guys that was brought over when he was like
fifteen from a project paper Clip from Germany, and he
studied under Werner Heisenberg, like the Heisenberg of Heisenberg's uncertainty principle.

(01:02:39):
Oh and by the way, he also believes in a
plank ether or a hypothesis, which is basically exactly what
we've been talking about and this whole zero point energy
field thing. So I've wanted to dismiss it. But the
more we look back, the further this thing really goes,
and it does go back to like even the early
nineteen hundreds, which is does make you wonder if there's

(01:03:02):
something else at play. I don't really know where it's
coming from, but it's interesting.

Speaker 4 (01:03:05):
Well, I was listening to an interview recently with Eugene
put Klutenoff.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
You know, anyway, there was an inter superconductors. By the way,
for people that are out there and and and basically
was doing the same stuff Ning Lee was doing in
the nineties of researching y CBO hy b C why
CBO superconductors for anti gravity.

Speaker 4 (01:03:25):
Yeah, if you guys want to like check out what
is the latest cutting edge in public publicly accessible anti gravity,
I would I would point them to put Klutenoff because
he was an he's an experimental physicist. So experimental means
you're not just pen on paper, you're actually doing it
for real, and he's he's got it. Like and so
he was asked in the interview how he began or

(01:03:48):
how how he discovered this sort of stuff. He mentioned
I think if I remember correctly, that his dad during
World War Two got access to some of the papers
that the Nazi scientists really developed. Yeah, some of those
patents and papers and you know, things like that, And
so Pakolatnov during his early years was trying to study those,
trying to reverse engineer it, trying to figure out how
it worked. And then it took him like two three
decades and he finally got it. And so that's why

(01:04:10):
he was even doing the experiments that he was doing
with like rotating superconductors and other rotating things because he
was trying to apply what he reversed engineering from some
of these Nazi Nazi papers about playing anti gravity ships
and so on.

Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
Yeah, spin and magnetism, especially super conductivity is it's quantum
effect on the macroscopic scale, So it shouldn't be surprising
that it's connected to this, especially at the universe is electorate.

Speaker 2 (01:04:35):
Do you know when that interview happened? How long ago it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:38):
Was, I'm guessing a couple of years. I'll link it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
Yeah, it tends to me later that sounds great.

Speaker 1 (01:04:46):
Now, there was an interview that I want to share
a couple of just a few minutes of the clip
with you, that was on a Project Unity's channel four
years ago, and so this predates my emergence on the
scene of the UFO phenomenon. What have you? And I
listened to this and it sort of blew my mind.
Just to set the background for it. It's from somebody

(01:05:07):
who just calls himself mister X. You can hear their
voice that don't use a voice change or anything like that.
If you know who they are, please let me know.
And they talk about the Saphire projects and how put
off and they talk specifically about plasma more specifically, they
talk about exotic vacuum objects, which is something that Ken's
shoulders discovered in the late eighties, around the same time

(01:05:30):
that Pons and Fleischmann made their announcement of cold fusion.
And this guy, from listening to this, he's clearly in
the know. This isn't some random person off the street,
like he knows these people. He knows all the players,
he's clearly worked with some of them. But he also
sounds like a pretty young guy. There was a specific
part in this interview, a couple of parts actually that

(01:05:52):
I thought were just huge moments, but one part I
thought you needed to listen to here, which was really interesting.
So let's go ahead and play this for you. So
here is the video, mister ax.

Speaker 2 (01:06:06):
Here's the clue.

Speaker 5 (01:06:08):
A paper online called a Brief Introduction to scaler Physics.
His name is Thomas Mendeleth, and it's called a Brief
Introduction to scalar Physics. It's a great document and he
has done a ton of research where he lays out
how gravity, mass, inertia, even time itself is controlled by
the scaler invector potentials. And he has written a very

(01:06:30):
good paper on this, and he has a website at
mond talk dot net m O N e A l
A dot net and there's a section on scaler physics.
But this guy has posted a lot of information and
I think he's a genius. And he explains this with
illustrations and graphics so that the ordinary person can comprehend it.
And you know, and one thing, A couple more things

(01:06:50):
about the flux line I want I want to mention
what's so critical is there's a lot of talk today
and upology about UFOs require these super advanced meta materials
with nano layer. Yeah, that's not required to build anti
gravity vehicles. And I don't think all UFOs had such
exact meta materials. Some probably did, but I don't think

(01:07:11):
they all did. I think the idea that you that
we have to master the production of these execty meta
materials to produce some anti gravity craft, it's a flat
out line.

Speaker 3 (01:07:20):
Do you think do you think?

Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
Sorry?

Speaker 1 (01:07:21):
I was okay, So first of all, Wow, you just
got at a shot out there.

Speaker 2 (01:07:26):
Have you not seen that?

Speaker 3 (01:07:28):
I didn't know that he did an interview with you?
Was that your interview?

Speaker 4 (01:07:31):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:07:31):
That was an interview with with Unity. Yeah, and this
is again from four years ago. And all of a
sudden he had been talking. He started talking about scaler
fields and he name drops you. I think right before
that he was started talking about Maxwell's equations as well,
like everybody seems to.

Speaker 3 (01:07:48):
Has he ever reached out to you.

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
No, he has not reached out to me. I would
love if mister X is out there watching. I would
love to talk to mister X and then the other
I let that play for another minute or so because
I wanted to get you or feedback on that claim.
This is something that I've been struggling to reconcile, which
is when you talk about the energy source, is the
energy source external like the zero point energy field or

(01:08:11):
is there some other fuel that they have that is
somehow getting around the limitation of E equals mc squared.
And the faster you move something, the more you know
energy it takes.

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
What is your thought on, you know?

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
And this also speaks to Bob Blazar and Element one fifteen.
What we're really down here is is there an element
one fifteen or you know, we just call it mysterious
fuel source or do you think it's just directly coming
from the environment the zero point energy field?

Speaker 4 (01:08:42):
Yeah, So personally, I don't really believe in the element
one fifteen theory. I mean, obviously element one fifteen can
be produced in the lab, and it has been, but
I don't think but but I don't think that it's
something that's mass producible and that it plays a role
in an anti gravity ship as Bob as Our. As
Bob as Our claims, you know, and he himself when
he claims that stuff, I think he was going off
of recovered memories because he had had some weird memory.

(01:09:04):
Remember earlier I was talking about people going to the
Black Ops programs and they come out of it and
they don't remember what they did during that time when
they were in. Well, that's a common thing, and if
Bob Bazar is legit, then he probably underwent a similar
sort of memory white procedure. And so therefore anything that
he does remember, either it's incomplete or it could be
a screen memory that was put there to cover up
for the real thing that actually happened.

Speaker 3 (01:09:26):
Possibly, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:09:27):
Okay, So I don't know if Eleman one fifteen is
real dealent, But I would say that there are different
types of technologies for producing similar effects in terms of
time warping, propulsion getting free energy. There are different methods,
but they're not an infinite number of different methods. You

(01:09:48):
can sort of categorize them into Okay, you're using this
principle of physics. Okay, he just uses that principle, and
they're closely related, but there's slightly different, especially especially when
it comes to propulsion, like for example, the Towns and
Brown stuff Bifail brown effect. That's a different mechanism from
what pod Kletnov was doing with a rotating superconductors or
rotating magnetic fields.

Speaker 3 (01:10:07):
They both lead to propulsion, right, but they're but they're different.

Speaker 4 (01:10:10):
And mister X, yeah, I'm familiar with with that individual.
He he Yeah, he's talking about the flux liner, the
flu the ARV Alien reproduction vehicle flex liner that Mark
McAndlish was talking about. Yeah, that's an interesting thing because
if you look at it, you see different components, you
can sort of start to guess how it works. Like,
for example, there's a coil around the top and then

(01:10:30):
there's a rotating disc in there, so that's a homopolar generator.

Speaker 3 (01:10:33):
Okay, that's what that is.

Speaker 4 (01:10:35):
And then at the bottom there are these these crystalline
capacitor layers you know, like in a fanned grid array
sort of like that, and the probably bifail brown gravitators
that's probably what they are, so like high voltage gravitators
that could be like changed in direction, combined with some
sort of a homopolar thing, which I don't know if
that was just to generate extremely high currents or if

(01:10:56):
it you know, functioned additionally for it for its own reasons,
but they're there's a certain logic behind various propulsion methods,
and the same thing also goes for energy. I think
in some cases it is definitely tapping it from the
zero point energy field just that. But here's a problem.
When you tap it from the zero point energy field,
you are changing the zero point energy field in your

(01:11:17):
local region.

Speaker 3 (01:11:18):
You're changing it.

Speaker 4 (01:11:19):
You know, you're extracting, you're converting energy from one domain
to another domain. And so therefore, know one domain goes
up and the other domain goes down, and so that
can lead to some very weird, very weird effects like
for example, one example that comes to mind is a
guy named Leon Sprink s P R I n K.

Speaker 3 (01:11:35):
Leon Sprink. Have you ever heard of Leon Sprink?

Speaker 2 (01:11:38):
I don't think so.

Speaker 4 (01:11:39):
I think he was a He was a chemist. I
don't know if he was Russian or French or something,
but this is like many many decades ago. Anyway, he
figured out a process where if you construct a wooden
frame and you put electrodes in there at an x
X pattern electrodes, and you give it like one hundred
and fifty thousand volts, you just kind of let it run.
If you let it run for hours, if not days,
all of a sudden you start getting an ex banning

(01:12:00):
field of altered ether, you could say, where chemical processes
would go way faster than they would normally. And so
he used his process in order to speed up chemical
processing of cement, like a cemmetri factory, you know, whether
the making lime or whatever they make for for making cement.
He was able to use this process to alter the
ether itself in order to alter chemical processes to you know,

(01:12:21):
speed up industrial production.

Speaker 3 (01:12:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:12:24):
Yeah, But but the reason why I mentioned that is
because his arrangement of electrodes electrodes was doing something to
the ether that was altering it, and one of the
effects was alteration of chemical processes. Now, there are other
alterations that can happen. You can have alterations where the
weather itself gets disturbed. And there's a on rex research
dot com there's an article about David Wells W E. L. L. S.

(01:12:47):
David Wells. He's a guy who tried to replicate the
Newman machine, the Newman free Energy machine, which is like
a big massive Joseph Newman. So Joseph Newman his free
energy machine, which is a big coil wire with like
a rotating magnet on the inside to generate electricity, and
according to Newman, it generated more power out than in.
And he almost got it, got it patented, but basically

(01:13:09):
people working for the men in Black, you know, men
in black and quotes, shut it down and they denied
him the patterns. I think, yeah, yeah so, But but
the thing is with with his device. David Wells tried
to replicate it, but he did it differently, with like
rotating magnets in like a different kind of oil situation.
He found that his machine when he turned it on,
it cut a hole like like a like a not

(01:13:30):
a hole, but a but a channel through the cloud
layer in the sky above. Yeah, consistently, you know it.
It would open up a hole like wherever the sun
was and the machine was the path in between what
a hole would open up.

Speaker 3 (01:13:42):
He found that that effect.

Speaker 4 (01:13:43):
He found that water bottles in his refrigerator and beer
like in the bar across the street, they would burst
because they would freeze at regular refrigeration temperatures. Now, I myself,
I did an experiment a couple of years ago where
I had a rotating aluminum disk and a magnet on it. It
was for a different experiment, but I was just like
like testing eddy current effects and like magnetic dragging and

(01:14:05):
so on. Well, when I whenever I did that, stuff
from the refrigerator would undergo some really really weird changes.
Like water bottles. Water bottles that I put in the
freezer would not freeze. They would become super cooled, so
they wouldn't freeze. They would stay liquid even at like
like like like it was like five degrees above zero,
you know, fair Knight, Yeah, yeah, and eggs would explode,

(01:14:27):
like we would freeze and they're above freezing temperature, but
they would they would you know, solidify and they would
crack the shells and just just other weird stuff. So
there is a kind of energy that affects the ether,
that alters the I'm guessing intramolecular forces, probably changing the
very constants of physics themselves, you know, the electric primitivity,
the magnetic permeability, those things depending on the properties of

(01:14:49):
the ether itself. And there are methods of altering the ether,
and some of those methods happen inadvertently when you try
to tap energy from the ether. So certain free energy devices,
they're not just spinning out energy, they're probably also altering
the local etheric conditions, which then affect the physical consonance
of physics.

Speaker 1 (01:15:05):
Yeah, and this is where I wanted to get into
the next clip from the same mister X interview. So,
and we're not gonna have time to watch it all,
so I'll just give you and the viewers kind of
the framework here is that they talk a lot about
exotic vacuum objects. Zogic vacuum objects are balls of plasma.
Ken's shoulders discovered from my research. Specifically, I would say
Paul SI's is the number one witness. He's now dead,

(01:15:28):
died in twenty thirteen. He was an aeronautics engineer. He
spoke specifically about hypersonic vehicles and crafts, and they use
a plasma sheath, and this is how they reduce the
drag in front of them, and actually it has this
propulsive effect to it as well. I speculate that we
figured out at some point around when Ken Shoulders was

(01:15:49):
doing his research that we don't need a craft for
a spy plane anymore. We can use a ball of
energy with some mechanical device in the middle of it
to get all the same effects that we want from
our spyplane. But we can get it now in a
drone and possibly even using how Pudoff's patent, which literally

(01:16:10):
says in it that it can communicate through plasma to
communicate and control the drone. And why is this huge? Well,
the nature of these plasmas are that they have an
extremely high charge density, extremely high. They also have a
natural asymmetry. We were talking about asymmetries and how it

(01:16:32):
creates this pressure or with electric field. They have a
natural asymmetry where electrons are not repelling each other, they're
not neutralizing within the plasma like you would expect, which
to me is like basically an unlimited battery. So you've
got this thing that can produce a huge amount of
charge relative to its size. It's got these self organizing

(01:16:52):
and self sustaining properties, meaning that it forms a torus
that forms a sphere, and then after that it sustains itself.
So Ken's Shoulders called them exotic vacuum objects because he
believed they must be cohering energy from the vacuum in
order to be sustainable like this. So I bring this

(01:17:15):
up because I think that you may have some insights
into it. I don't know how much you know about
the plasma stuff. I want you to listen to this
guy talk about it for a couple of minutes. I
think that somebody figured out that there's probably several different
ways to do with microwaves, RF waves or just being
able to produce some kind of standing wave within the
plasma that allows it to become coherent where now it

(01:17:37):
can just float freely. But also what happens is it
changes the permittivity of space. The plasma itself being there
pushes out the zero point energy. So to really bring
this all around, why does this connect to hal Putoff?
Because how Putoff was writing the papers explaining these concepts,
and Ken Schulders wrote a paper and by the way,

(01:17:57):
he was partners with hal Putoff. Ken and Shoulders wrote
a paper called Permittivity Transitions where he says that basically
he realized in nineteen eighty that from a paper by Bergstrom,
the paper was from nineteen seventy three, that there really
is an ether. And then if there really is an
ether and there really is a medium, now we can
start playing around with the medium. We can play around

(01:18:19):
with the permittivity of free space, which changes the speed
of light. And I think it's really interesting because based
on what you were just talking about with time and
you know, having these collisions that were happening more often,
like you know, somehow they were manipulating time with these experiments,
with this energy that they were creating with their electrodes,

(01:18:40):
is that this is also, in my opinion, the answer
to cold fusion and fusion in general. I don't think
hot fusion is ever gonna work. I think that with
hot fusion we were like, let's just heat it up
and then there'll be more collisions because there's more energy.
But we should have been thinking about in terms of time,
which is, if we manipulate the rate of time, then
we're gonna have more collisions and we don't need temperature

(01:19:01):
for that at all. It can be cold. This is
something where sal Pais has been saying on a lot
of interviews, even going back a year ago. It's all
about cold plasma. So before we watch this clip, I
would postulate to you to think about it, and to
the audience to think about what if we discovered some
natural phenomenon plasma that has properties that we can't recreate

(01:19:23):
with meta materials, at least not now. Maybe a civilization's
like a thousand years more advanced than us can do it,
but right now we just don't have the material science
for it. But we found the workaround, which is that
we can make this ball of plasma and now we
can get a lot of the same magical effects that
normally we would have to be like a thousand years
more advanced for. This is what the context I want
you to have when we listen to this, because I

(01:19:45):
think this guy worked with Hal Pudoff on the Saffire project,
and I think the Saffire project was basically a front
for this EVO plasma research.

Speaker 2 (01:19:54):
So let's play this clip here.

Speaker 1 (01:19:58):
It's like two or three perfect sense.

Speaker 5 (01:20:00):
But now if you have the self organizing plasma and
it's producing an EVO in this central column, it could
develop this super conducting double layer which would almost be
like a layer of electrons that have formed Cooper pairs
and become super conducting. Now what's so interesting about that is,

(01:20:21):
I believe from the research I have done, that it's
a super conducting state which is highly interactive with the
vacuum with the zero poin energy field, and basically you
can create a bubble of what's called magnetic vector potential
around the craft. Now, this is a very important concept
I want to get across here about magnetic vector potential.

(01:20:42):
See Originally, Maxwell back in the eighteen hundreds produced the
first theory of electromagnetism of electrodynamics, and in his original theory,
the primary movers of electromagnetism was the scalar potential and
the vector potential. And forget the term potential, that's really
not a good descriptor of this, but the scalar potential.

(01:21:03):
Just imagine for a moment that there's a river and
you're underneath the surface of the of the river. The
scalar potential would be the pressure of the water all
around you pushing against your body. That's the scaler or
the static potential that's always there. The vector potential would
be the force of the current flowing against your body,
pushing against you in a specific direction, a specific vector.

(01:21:27):
That's the vector potential. The magnetic and electric fields are
just various manifestations of the scaler in vector potentials. A
magnetic field is just a curled vector potential, for example.
And so with the flux liner, you're creating a bubble
of vector potential around the craft.

Speaker 2 (01:21:44):
Right.

Speaker 5 (01:21:45):
Then if you pulse it, because remember the flux liner
was designed as like a high frequency Tesla core, if
you pulse it, that creates another gradient in the vector potential,
which is critical. Also, if you make this bubble asymmetrical
in shape, that's important. By creating another level of a gradient, also,
you can even do things. There's a secondary propulsion system

(01:22:06):
in the flux liner. Two, which were the dielectric materials.
At the very base, they were these copper It was
layers of copper and dielectric. Copper and dielectric this green material.
And basically what makes perfect sense for this green material,
the dielectric material would have been dope, very impightenent tightening,

(01:22:27):
and it would have had a high K value, which
would be a high capacity of value. And what's so
interesting about this is that type of ferroelectric material can
have a natural nonlinearity about it. So you have all
these ways of adding an additional gradient, so you have
the natural property of the EVO to be highly interactive
with the vector potential. And then you have all these

(01:22:49):
extra gradients from being pulsed at high frequency and having
the shape of the craft and having the properties of
the dielectric, and it all contributes to having a higher
pressure on one side, a weaker pressure on the other side,
and creating a net movement. Because gravity, this is a
key concept. I want your listeners to grasp gravity, mass

(01:23:09):
in in inertia are all electrical phenomena. They are all
manifestations of the scaler invector potentials.

Speaker 1 (01:23:17):
So now you see why I wanted you to listen
to that. Right, you are already dropping a lot of
those terms of this interview. And I was sitting here like,
I don't want to spoil what I'm about the place.
What do you think?

Speaker 2 (01:23:27):
What do you think it was? Understanding he's a big.

Speaker 5 (01:23:29):
Thing for you.

Speaker 4 (01:23:30):
Yeah, yeah, So I've written about those things, and I'm
sure he's thought about it and researched it himself and
probably incorporated it into his understanding of how let's say
the flex liner works. So you know, ka, kudos to
him for for applying it in such a original and
creative way, you know, like insightful way. Insightful way because
because for example, earlier when I talked about the flex
liner and how the bottom layer was like a Bifield

(01:23:52):
brown capacitor kind of a thing, he talks about how
they had different layers and how they were doped. Okay, now,
what when what does you mean by doping? Dope means
you have the different layers have different k's, different dielectric constants,
and so when you put an electric field through the
stack of layers, the electric field here is going to
be different from the one here, different from the one
There's got a compression in that direction. Okay, it's compression

(01:24:15):
in that direction, and that creates a linear well quote
unquote linear nonlinearity in the electric field. And so when
you have non linearities in the electric field, you're you're
generating something new.

Speaker 1 (01:24:25):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:24:26):
So the same way that a gradient in the voltage
leads to an electric field, well, a gradient which is
really a divergence in the electric field leads to X
to something else, which is probably electro gravitation. You know,
it's probably what it is.

Speaker 2 (01:24:40):
Now.

Speaker 4 (01:24:40):
A lot of these things they are evident within the equations.
So ultimately a lot of the stuff is in the math.
So if you can, if you understand the mathematics, then
you can look at an equation and you can say, okay,
well that part there corresponds to this physical process, and
if I want to apply it, this is the sort
of physical experiment or set up that I have to
do in order to make it be that way.

Speaker 2 (01:25:02):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:25:03):
So one of the theories that I had in that
in my paper A brief introduction to scalear physics, is
that the divergence of the magnetic vector potential, in other words,
in other words, how much this water flow that he's
talking about diverges or converges upon a point in a
radial direction. This expansion or contraction of the ether corresponds

(01:25:24):
or is inter related in some way to the gravitational
potential and therefore also to the rate of time itself.
So what this means is, if you can control the
vector potential, which you can do through charge densities and
through currents and just arranging them in a certain geometric way,
if you can control that then you can control the
gravitational potential, and therefore you can control time as well.

(01:25:46):
Then it's just a matter of how much charge density
you can compact into a certain space and how much
you can make it modulate. And so that's exactly what
you're talking about with those plasmoids, those stable plasma things,
where that is nature's own mechanism for compacting as much
charges as possible into the smallest volume. Okay, that's how
you get the greatest charge density. And so when you

(01:26:07):
have such a high level of charge density and you
modulate its size, that is a way of generating radial
longitudinal waves.

Speaker 1 (01:26:16):
Wow, that's mind blowing to think about, and it makes
a lot of sense. It's like, I love the thing
you just said about nature. It's like nature's way of
fitting the most charge into that region. When I first
spoke to Salpayis, my first thought was, like I kept
thinking I was on all on board the meta material
thing alien, you know, when they figured out somewhere must

(01:26:39):
be a meta material. But doesn't it just make so
much more sense that nature is going to have the
most efficient mechanism and it's not going to be some
material that we've got. You know that to me makes
the most sense out of all of it. And then
when I heard him talking about these ideas, these cold plasmas,

(01:27:00):
and you know, I look back at that make streets
of and zero videos and I'm just going, Wow, this
is really the answer, because this is where Sal Sal's
whole paise effect is that he's saying that to your point,
what is what is the amount of energy you can
fit electromagnetic flux you can fit within a region of
space time? Sal's thing is that the most is the

(01:27:21):
Swinger limit. Is that once you hit the Swinger limit
Julian Schwinger Nobel Prize winner nineteen sixty five, when you
hit that level of energy density, you're breaking through the
fabric of reality. You could argue you're like looking at
the true nothingness at that point. You're looking down through
whatever the ether is. You're looking at it at that point.

(01:27:44):
So yeah, I think that. And then this also speaks
to the idea of these evos. What they're doing then
is they're changing the permittivity of space time in that region.
That's going to manipulate the speed of light in that region.
And now it's you know, now, what do you have?
You have a ball of energy floating around. And the

(01:28:04):
other thing that I realized, I'm curious you get your
thoughts on all of this, is that one of the
biggest scientific things that I found was something called the
dynamic Kasmir effect. You hear people talk about the Kasimir
effect all the time in this topic, and why because
it proves zero point energy is real for the people
out there going well, is zero point energy even real? Yes,
the Lamb shift proves it's real, Kasimir effect proves it's real,

(01:28:27):
Aaron off Bom effect proves it's real. All these things
prove there's something there. Why does science ignore them?

Speaker 2 (01:28:33):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:28:33):
I don't really care at the end of the day.
But this energy level, if we can break through this,
then we can create these types of effects that we've
been writing about in physics, which is like wormholes, you know, portals,
things like that. They require these huge amounts of energy
to pull off. So what is your thoughts and you

(01:28:57):
have any other background thoughts or anything I haven't brought
up about evos in general, And oh sorry, I forgot
The other thing I was gonna say about the dynamic
Asmir effect is that they think the dynamic Casmir effect.
They being physicists, they think the dynamic asm effect happens
at the event horizon of black holes. Is that that's
one of the astrological locations cosmological locations where we see

(01:29:19):
the dynamic asm effect happen. If you read about the
dynamic Asmir effect, it basically says that the Shwinger effect
is happening. Is that these virtual particle pairs that are
constantly popping in and out of existence, they get captured
from the Swinger effect and what happens they become real photons.

(01:29:40):
Photon is just light. So to me, if you add
this up and you say, huh, if we're creating like
a black hole or a little permittivity change in a
region of space, and we've got our plasma here, then
it's gonna be glowing because it's gonna be something inside
there is pulling photons out of the ether, if it's
real interacting with the ether, like Ken Shoulders would say,

(01:30:02):
what is your thoughts on any and all of that?

Speaker 4 (01:30:05):
Yeah, So the zero point energy field, the way that
some physicists understand it is that you have these virtual
particles a virtual including virtual photons that pop in and
out of existence, and they do it within a time
span that is allowed by the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. Right,
so there's a very very small window of time where
things can pop in and pop out, but it's enough
to generate a collective effect that leads to zero point

(01:30:28):
energy effects. Okay, and I think what you were talking
about there, what they were talking about, has to do
with bringing a system right up to that threshold where
when something tries to pop into existence and a pair
and an anti pair thing, well, there's a there's a
sort of like like one is above the threshold and
one is beneath the threshold. So so therefore you get
this asymmetric effect. You break the symmetry that normally combines

(01:30:50):
them back to zero. So imagine you generate a one
and a minus one and normally they collapse back to zero.
Well what if as soon as that one pops out,
you like throw that into a black hole, and then
the other one you leave out of the black hole. Well,
now all of a sudden, you've got this minus one
out of nowhere without a one to cancel it back out,
So you get you get something out of nothing. Okay,
that's sort of what you're talking about there, and I
mean another way of understanding that would be you are

(01:31:12):
biasing the zero point energy field so that you get
a net, a net fluctuation that comes out.

Speaker 3 (01:31:18):
Of it, you know, so that's oil.

Speaker 1 (01:31:19):
Well, right, but you've just tapped into this unlimited supply
of energy. At that point, you're creating something that's pulling
the energy out.

Speaker 2 (01:31:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:31:28):
Yeah, And so that sort of energy then would be
in the form of either they're not virtual particles anymore,
they're real particles now, and they could be electrons, you know,
they could be electrons and also photons, so some sort
of radiation. It could be light, could be gamma rays,
X rays, whatever. And actually, interestingly enough, a lot of
these supposed UFOs they do generate these energy fields. They

(01:31:49):
generate particles like electric fields around them in addition to
glowing in a plasmatic sort of way and people getting
ultraviolet radiation burns and when they get a little bit too
close to them. So they're generating very very intense energy fields.
And perhaps perhaps they are creating a shell around themselves
that's almost like an event horizon for all we know.
Maybe that's what they're doing, you know, But but no,
doubt that a lot of these ships, they do use

(01:32:11):
plasmas to do a lot of what they do. So
so imagine if you if you do have a metal
vehicle and the skin of it, you can electrify in
such a way that you create a plasmoid around yourself,
so you're encased in a plasmai You're like you're like
a flying ball lightning basically, So you can imagine where
you can do it that you can you can nullify inertia,
you can alter gravity, you can probably alter the rate

(01:32:31):
of time. And actually, funny enough, Stefan Merinov and the
Magvid Magavid device, you know which I think, I think,
I think I linked that to you once.

Speaker 1 (01:32:40):
Yeah, yeah, so.

Speaker 4 (01:32:42):
So the Magavid device, this was device that Stefan Maronov.
He's a Bulgarian physicist who died under very mysterious circumstances.
But that was the final device that you built before
he was killed. And the official story is that he
committed suicide by jumping off a university building, but in
true when he landed, one of the people that found
him found that there was this weird, green, glowing fluid

(01:33:06):
leaking out the back of his fractured skull almost almost
like a like like radiator fluid from a car, like
a coolant or something.

Speaker 3 (01:33:13):
Well no, no, no, the theory. The theory is that
that he was.

Speaker 4 (01:33:15):
Probably mind controlled, like objective with some sort of thing
and it made to jump up. Yeah but see, but
see he was fully conscious and he probably would have recovered,
but an ambulance showed up, mysterious ambulance and took him away,
and he died on the way to the hospital. And
I think they tried to trace where that ambulance came from,
and it wasn't an official ambulance. So yeah, so something

(01:33:36):
went on there, you know. But anyway, so this MAGVID
device it stands for a magnetic vortex and looked.

Speaker 1 (01:33:43):
Into this actually yeah, yeah, yeah, because you sent me
this what I can't remember, there's something relevant.

Speaker 2 (01:33:50):
To this, this mag love uh.

Speaker 1 (01:33:53):
But yeah, I looked into it and I thought it
looked very plausible and just not to change the subject,
we can talk more about that. But something I was
just looking at yesterday actually was I decided to pull
up sALS uh. Here it is sorry Sal's patent for
Inertial Craft using Inertial Mass Reduction Advice. And one thing

(01:34:17):
you noticed. How do I make this go over somewhere else?
Let me try to pop this out there? We go,
Oh hold on, let me switch, let me switch my
share screen here this craft, sal says, there's a cavity here,
This triangle craft is using a cavity that has Xenon
gas or another noble gas in it, which I believe

(01:34:39):
is an insulator. And I guess what I'm getting at
here is that could this outside be this plasma field
that's being generated, and could the energy be using this
cavity here to create the cold plasma on the outside.
I don't looking at this image of looks like what

(01:35:00):
he's trying to represent on this image.

Speaker 3 (01:35:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:35:02):
Yeah, well man, it's been it's been a while since
I read that patent, so I can't remember, but I
mean it does look like it. And I know that
he does incorporate plasma into some of his some of
his technologies. So and you have to if you want
really high charge densities, Yeah, you have to use plasmas.
It's just as mentioned, it's.

Speaker 3 (01:35:16):
Nature's way, nature's way of doing it most efficiently.

Speaker 1 (01:35:19):
So yeah, yeah, so yeah, I think that my opinion
is this and now this is kind of what you know.
I want to get your last thoughts on this here
may ask one or two more questions, but what if
what is your thoughts on this hypothesis that I've I
don't think I've stolen this in from anybody else, but
maybe other people had the same thought. What if any
civilization kind of figures out that plasma is the secret

(01:35:42):
They all figure out that we can't get the energy
densities we need without plasma, and so that that would
mean that plasma is kind of like discovering fire, you know,
like you first you start rubbing sticks together and you realize, oh,
we can make fire happen. Look at that, and then
do we still rub sticks together?

Speaker 2 (01:36:00):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:36:00):
I was making a fire earlier today and I just
used my lighter right and I start the fire up.
And we don't really ask why fire works the way
that it does, or who figured it out? Whatever, We
just say it exists, it's a property of nature that happens.
And then you know, you could get into the long
complicated explanation for how and why it's working.

Speaker 2 (01:36:18):
But what if plasma's like that?

Speaker 1 (01:36:21):
And what if then now the hurdle to achieving this
magical technology is just discovering a property of nature. It's
not even a matter of achieving some level of material
science or understanding what is your thoughts on that theory?
And I think the reason why I like it is
going back to what you said at the beginning when

(01:36:41):
I asked you what you think the nature of the
UFO phenomenon is, is that it opens the door to everything.
Is that it could be partially us. We could have
figured some of this out. We could have figured it
out from aliens. We could have figured it out from
digging something up. We could have figured it out on
our own. It also opens the door to some of
this stuff flying around being us, but some of it
also being aliens using a similar foundation of technology, all
based on plasma. What do you think?

Speaker 4 (01:37:03):
Yeah, I think plasma is quite foundational now for us
as humans with our budget, our labs, our garages, our basements. Plasma,
I think is the way to go to get those
charge densities that we need to have very strong effects.
And in case people are wondering, like why is it
that charge densities have any effect on anything? While it's
because charge itself electric charges, they seem to have a

(01:37:26):
grip on the ether. And so that's why when you
send a current down a wire, it drags a little
bit of ether with it, and so you've get this
vector potential flowing alongside the outside of the wire because
it's being dragged along by the charge. And so when
you take charges and you compress them together, if you
compress charges together and in emotion like this, then what

(01:37:48):
you're doing is you're also compressing the ether. So you're
modulating the ether by modulating charge density. And the greater
the charge density, the stronger you grip on the ether,
and the more you effect the zero point energy field
and so on. So that's why ar are so important
is because they literally grab the ether the alter time,
like the Bifield Brown effect. Okay, the Bifield Brown effect.
You just have a capacitor, a high voltage capacitor, so

(01:38:09):
once charge super high you know, negative, and the other
one either is at ground or super high negative voltage.
And just with that alone you get a propulsive force
because you're altering the ether in an asymmetric way, so
the ether wants to flow, you know, to rebalance it.
And so therefore you get this motion. And so the
reason why I bring that up is because yeah, I
think plasma is the most efficient way to do it,
because that's how nature does it, ball lightning the sun.

(01:38:32):
You know, I'm actually fire itself as a plasma. Funny enough,
but but yeah, I mean you can use plasmas to
do things that you can't with let's say, copper conductors,
because a copper conductor you can only put so much
energy into it before the copper melts, you know, before
the wire heats up and it melts. So you can't
use the copper wire to do these super high powerful things.
But if you use a plasma, which is nothing but

(01:38:52):
charges nothing but ions and electrons, then there's nothing there
to melt, you know, so you can keep on pumping
energy into it until you reach the Shwinger limit or
whatever sort of limit you're talking about, and then you
start get getting really really weird effects. But one of
the important things I forgot to mention earlier is that
there are really two ways of getting these exotic effects.
One is to cram just as much mass and energy

(01:39:15):
and motion or whatever into a certain volume of space,
and you end up curving space and time. You end
up curving the ether. And that's what general relativity would
recommend and I think that's what sal pia is is
is that's what he's going for. He's going for like
extreme energy densities to warp space and time.

Speaker 3 (01:39:29):
But there is.

Speaker 4 (01:39:30):
Another way, and the other way is to first you
alter the actual physical constants of space itself, you know,
the primitivity, the index of refraction of the ether. And
if you alter those, then you don't need as much
energy in order to get those effects. And that's something
that funny enough, Jack Strafai, you know, like that's the
thing that we talked about last time with the Schmuck factor.

(01:39:51):
So that thing that is the variable that controls how
much energy you need to warp a certain amount of
space and time. And so if you can alter that
first using scalear physics principles, you buy altering the density
of the ether. If you can do that first, then
the ether becomes more fluid, more appliable, softer, and you
don't need as much energy per volume space in order

(01:40:13):
to open portals or ultra time or anything like that.
So that's why I think that some of these ships,
whether they are shadow military or alien stuff, some of
them probably are using a method of softening up to
ether first before they apply the energy. So therefore they
don't have to have the energy equivalent of a massive
star in order to open a portal. You know, maybe

(01:40:34):
they don't need that, Maybe they just need a tiny
fraction of that. But in correspondence to that, they also
softened up the ether in a massive, massive way. Through that,
the combination, you're all connected.

Speaker 1 (01:40:44):
Honestly, I think that I think that all these ideas
and concepts are connected in a way where once we
start seeing it experimentally publicly, it's going to start to
make a lot of sense. I think that we can
reduce the energy requirements. I think we can amplify energy
as well, and I think we can pull free energy
out of the through all of above.

Speaker 2 (01:41:01):
And I think we're going.

Speaker 1 (01:41:02):
To find that, Yeah, there's a relationship between them all.
Tom Bearden, you know, he would talk about tickling, tickling
the ether with the you know a little bit of energy,
and that's kind of what he's talking about, is he's
like saying that find the way to interact with the
ether in a way that uses the least amount of energy.
And I think that Ken Shoulders maybe has either discovered
that or discovered one way to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:41:23):
With plasmas.

Speaker 1 (01:41:25):
And I love what you mentioned about the electricity. I
want to go back to that for a second because
I always mentioned this Veritassium video. He's my favorite physicist
out there. Veritassium on YouTube does this video, I think
it was like a year or two ago about electricity
doesn't flow through wires and he finds that, yes, there's
electricity is flowing through fields. You could say it's flowing

(01:41:47):
through the ether, you know, from one point to the other,
but it's not technically flowing through the wires. The wires
are just kind of acting as conduits for a lack
of a better term, yep.

Speaker 2 (01:41:58):
And why is this so huge?

Speaker 1 (01:42:00):
Because of what you just said about the electricity electrons,
they are connecting to the ether. They are coupling to
the ether. So now if you think about it from
that perspective, this perspective, electricity is coupled to the ether.
And then you can look back at how Pudoff's paper
specifically is polarizable vacuum or metric space time metric engineering.

(01:42:21):
What he's talking about is basically like taking Microsoft paint
and doing a little cutout of a region, you know,
make a bubble, or you can be any shape you
potentially want, but like just roughly, let's say a bubble,
and now you create like an eddy current, and Eddie
current is just like a different an area of space
where you have a current difference, maybe a superconducting barrier,

(01:42:42):
and now you've got a bubble. You've got a bubble
in space time, all created and produced by electricity, by
electric charge. And I think that's what Ken shoulders. I
think this is where Ken's shoulders and how Putoff's ideas
overlapped and why they were partners with one another because
they both understood that space is an empty and there's
this ether and they were both kind of like how

(01:43:03):
Putoff was going the or sorry, Ken shoulder is going
to the plasma route, going like you know, this is
how we can create it, and then how Putoff was
kind of explaining it in the concepts. I personally think
he got sucked into the black world as well. And
I think he's a lot smarter than he lets on
as well. He knew's a very smart guy. I think
he knows way more stuff. So I guess thoughts on

(01:43:26):
that and energy not flowing through the wires and what
that means for how you manipulate space time.

Speaker 4 (01:43:33):
It's an important thing. It's something I wanted to bring
up for sure, So it's good that we got to
this point. So in that very toasium video, yeah, I
did talk about how energy is not flowing through the wire,
is actually flowing in the space around the wire. And
the quantity that they refer to is the pointing vector
Poy and t ing, And the pointing vector is equal
to the electric field crossed with the magnetic field. So

(01:43:55):
he cross B, he cross B. So if you got
electric field this way, magnetic field this way, then the
pointing vector, well, is you this way or that way?

Speaker 2 (01:44:02):
After you?

Speaker 3 (01:44:02):
I didn't keep track of my directions, but it's perpendicular
to both of them.

Speaker 4 (01:44:05):
Right, So but see what he's saying, is it flows
like how energy flows with a photon, Because in a photon,
you have the electric field in one direction, you got
the magnetic field perpendicular to that, and then you have
the direction of motion perpendicular to both of those. And
that's what the pointing vector is, is the direction of
energy flow that flows electro magnetically. And as you and

(01:44:28):
I have been discussing this entire time, there's more things
than just transverse electromagnetic waves.

Speaker 3 (01:44:33):
There are other.

Speaker 4 (01:44:33):
Forms of you could say waves or ripples in the ether. Okay,
so think about it this way. The pointing vector, if
that is E cross B words right angles to be,
then how do you make this this this transverse electromagnetic
flow zero. There's different ways to do it. One, you
can have the E and the B be in the
same direction. Right, They're not perpendicular to each other, so

(01:44:55):
the perpendicular component is actually zero.

Speaker 3 (01:44:58):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:44:58):
So if you have the E and the B in
the same direction, then you don't get a pointing vector
and you don't get loss of energy. And that is
what that that nineteen ninety two Air Force paper that
you've been citing it out.

Speaker 3 (01:45:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, by by.

Speaker 1 (01:45:11):
Jack Champions in there that the electric and magnetic fields
are parallel another. And I kept reading that and I
wanted to talk to you about it because I was like, wait,
is he saying I couldn't understand exactly. I could tell
it was profound.

Speaker 3 (01:45:24):
Yeah, But so what.

Speaker 1 (01:45:25):
You're saying there is that you've creating a situation where
the you've canceled out, you've created a scaler potential.

Speaker 2 (01:45:31):
Is that how would you even interpret that.

Speaker 4 (01:45:33):
You've created a situation where you don't get radiation in
a typical way. So, in other words, if you have
this ball of plasmoid stuff, it's not going to be
leaking energy outward and like fizzling out to nothing. It's
going to be self sustaining, at least for a period
of time. And that's what ball lightning is. Ball lightning
perier is and it goes around for a while and
eventually it fizzles out, you know, when it destabilizes. But
from that period of time, all these charges are compacted

(01:45:54):
together and they're not dissipating.

Speaker 3 (01:45:56):
Right. Wow.

Speaker 4 (01:45:57):
So that's one situation where you're canceled out the pointing
vector by making E and B parallel so that there
is no cross, there's no perpendicular component, right. So that's
one way to do it. The other way to do
it is to make the magnetic field zero but leave
the electric field. So if you have the electric field
but no magnetic field, even even if the electric field
is oscillating, if you cancel out the magnetic field, then

(01:46:19):
it's e cross zero that is equal to zero. That's
also a situation where the pointing field and you know
what that is.

Speaker 3 (01:46:26):
You know what that is.

Speaker 4 (01:46:27):
That is Ken Shoulders e v Oh, that is what
it is. Because in his paper won his book ev
a Tale of Discovery and that book that that last.

Speaker 2 (01:46:35):
Chapter you called it a book.

Speaker 1 (01:46:36):
I call it like memoirs. But that's that's an amazing
read for people.

Speaker 3 (01:46:39):
Oh yeah, that's a good one. I I love it.

Speaker 4 (01:46:43):
I mean because man, that book, you can you can
tell his passion, you can tell that he understands what.

Speaker 3 (01:46:47):
He's talking about. You know, he's he's in it. It's
not like some some some accade.

Speaker 1 (01:46:51):
That's where he says that he learned that the ether
was real in nineteen eighty and he talks openly about
his relationship with how pudoph and Bill Church was the
owner of or just chicken at the time. Like that
needs to be made into a movie anyway, Please keep going.

Speaker 3 (01:47:04):
Yeah, all right.

Speaker 4 (01:47:05):
So in that paper, near the end, he talks about
his theory about what these evos are and what he
thinks they are is they he thinks that they are
monopole oscillations of electric charge densities. So it's a long
it's a long phrase, but what really means is a
spherical oscillating density of charge, right, so in other words,
the electric field is pointing outwards in a radial direction,

(01:47:27):
and it's increasing and decreasing, increasing and decreasing because the
charges are moving. It's actually it's actually generating a vector
potential and a radial symmetrical way. That's what it's doing.

Speaker 2 (01:47:36):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:47:36):
It's generating as spherical longitudinal waves into the ether. Okay,
Except what makes it stable is that it's oscillating in
such a way that it is in resonance with the
ether itself. Okay, So because it's resonating at a frequency
that is in resonance with the ether, any sort of
longitude energy that does go out gets reflected back.

Speaker 3 (01:47:58):
So it's in.

Speaker 4 (01:47:58):
You know, it's like as if you and I and
a bunch of people were in a mosh pit and
we're all like pushing out against each other. Normally we
would disperse, but if there's a crowd around us that
is pushing back in time with us, then then we
just kind of stay together as as a group in
the center of the mashpit. So that's how it is.
You know, these electrons are trying to push apart, but
then the ether pushes it back, and there's this oscillation
going on, and so that's what he's talking about. He's

(01:48:19):
talking about these radial charge oscillations. That that's his version
of the plasmoid. Whereas the Jack and the Champion paper
that's slightly different that that's where you'd got the E
and the B non zero, but they're in parallel so
you get this like solenoidal you know, troidal spherical shape, right,
and that's it's similar, but it's different from from Ken's

(01:48:40):
shoulders stuff. But it's it's to what to our eyes,
both of them will look like plasmoids. It's just one
it's like a like a torus, and the other one
is you know, radiating like like like this, like it's
not radiating, but it's moving like that. But yeah, but
but both of them, the pointing vectors are zero because
there is no E cross B and that's non zero.

Speaker 3 (01:48:58):
Interestingly enough, so so which.

Speaker 1 (01:49:00):
One is the one that's compressing decompressing Ken shoulders or Jack?

Speaker 2 (01:49:02):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:49:03):
Yeah, yeah, Ki Ken shoulders. So when he talks about
monopoles at the end of his paper, he's talking about
electric monopoles, not magnetic monopoles.

Speaker 1 (01:49:09):
He's just talking about I've been interpreting it wrong. This
whole time. I mean fundamentally the same concept. But yeah, wow,
yeah wow, that is mind blowing man, that you brought
that up. Thank you for thank you for talking about that. Yeah,
And that's the thing where then the Champion paper goes
and takes it a step further and from the Champions

(01:49:29):
approach says, well, if you create this vortex just like
a whirlpool where you're pulling the tub the water or
the tub, then it can stabilize the the field and
therefore becomes stable. And I also wonder do you think
that there might be a requirement or like, do you
think there has to be modulated in such a way

(01:49:51):
where it has to be in some kind of equilibrium
with the atmosphere as well, Like does it have to
be like the same temperature as the background atmosphe or
close that that kind of gets alluded to, and then
the champ Can paper and it was an interesting thought
that I'd never considered. I just assume that if you
can make a bubble, then it's completely separated for everything else.

(01:50:11):
But what if there is some criteria where it needs
to be within a certain threshold of the outside environment
in order for it to stay stable. Otherwise it'll become.

Speaker 3 (01:50:22):
Yeah, I think.

Speaker 4 (01:50:23):
I think the environmental conditions, whether it's pressure, the I mean,
even the types of gases that are in the air,
if if any, if there's any sort of particle exchange
with the plasmoid, because I think about it, you can
make a plasmoid probably in a field of pure hydrogen,
or you can make another one and pure to feel
of pure like argon or something. Right, So if you
make one within atmosphere, it's going to be made of
hydrogen or I mean nitrogen, carbon dioxide, and all these

(01:50:47):
other things that separate and some on like a little
bit of water vapor. So yeah, I mean, the plasmoid
would definitely be made of the stuff of the gas
that it forms within, and so therefore it would have
an interaction with the environment, not only with the physical environment,
but probably also of the gravitational environment and the etheric environment.
Like if the physical constant of electric primitivity were different,

(01:51:07):
the speed of light were different, then maybe it would
be a bigger plasmoid instead of a smaller one and
more compact one or vice versa. Right, So the environmental
conditions ultimately end up determining the size of the plasmoid.
Probably its color, probably what frequency it's oscillating at. All
these things, you know, kind of converge together and think
about this. What if what if the electron itself is
a plasmoid in the ether, And what if what if

(01:51:30):
electric charge and the mass of the electron. What if
those things only appear because those are the environmental conditions
that it exists within. What if what if the very
properties of the ether are would give the electron it's
suppose the charge. I think that's probably what's going on.

Speaker 1 (01:51:46):
Oh, I totally agree with you, and you really helped
me to conceptualize these balls of plasma. So then in
terms of do you think they can be created then
through anything? And do you think they could like it?
You know, I've wondered because I keep thinking of the
m AH three seven zero videos and they closely match

(01:52:07):
what you were describing with Ken's shoulders, the oscillation that's
going on there. I think that if those videos are real,
then those orbs are pulling the electrons directly from the atmosphere,
like I don't think they're in a glass container of
argon or some other gas or whatever it is. And
one of the papers I read it, I don't remember

(01:52:28):
which well, maybe it was in a Champion, maybe it
was one of the others. They said that it can
be it can be tuned to any frequency, meaning that
it can be any color of light that they can emit,
and they might even be able to be invisible. So
do you think that they could be invisible? Does that
make sense to you?

Speaker 2 (01:52:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:52:46):
Yeah, because so within plasmas, when you try to create
a plasma in a lab, one of the easiest ways
to do that is you good like like an evacuated chamber,
like like a vacuum tube or something. You got two
electrodes in there, right, so one's ground once a cathode,
one's aode, and you pump certain level of current into it,
certain level voltage, and it ionizes the remaining gases that
are in there, right, And so as you increase the current,

(01:53:07):
you get this curve. It's it's a curve that's common
to all such plasmas, and at the very beginning of it,
there's a kind of dark plasma. It's called the Townsend regime.
It's within that regime that that particular phase of plasma
where you don't get any light emission, so it's dark,
but it is still a plasma. There's actual plasmatic processes
going on there in there, but it's invisible optically invisible

(01:53:29):
because it's not emitting necessarily any light. So if you
have these orbs, right, so, if their technology is advanced enough,
they could create these plasmoid orbs that are within that
particular regime or something like it where it's not emitting
light but it is invisible. And I think Ken Shoulders,
didn't you talk about dark evos as well?

Speaker 1 (01:53:47):
Yeah, people are probably watching this right now screaming the
chat dark evos because yeah, and also the Safire project
they had a mode where it was completely dark. The
plasma was on, there was voltage given to it, but
it was just black, not emitting any light whatsoever.

Speaker 2 (01:54:04):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:54:05):
Interesting.

Speaker 4 (01:54:06):
Yeah, Now since we're on the topic, let me mention
something briefly. So within that that that curve of this chasm,
this plasma curve, if you get up to a certain point, okay,
so beyond this Townshend regime, beyond this cold plasma regime,
you get to what's called the normal glow discharge. And
that's like when you got the electrode like in the
Sapphire Project videos, you got this electrode, and like little
glowing dots start appear around it, right, and then they

(01:54:27):
start to move a little bit. That's normal glow discharge phase.
And eventually it gets so bright that the entire thing
gets covered in like a uniform layer of glow. And
that's called the abnormal glow discharge phase. Okay, that's a
higher up in the curve. But then something very interesting
happens because once you reach that state, you can you
can turn down the voltage a little bit and it'll

(01:54:47):
start retracing that curve and go back to the cold
plasma state. Really but it's but it's a different kind
of cold plasma state. It's like it's like a plasma
has two states to it, like two parallel states to it,
and when you go up in voltage, you go along
the bottom one, and then when you trace back you
actually come back this this other parallel way, where now
you've got this kind of cold plasma instead of this kind.

(01:55:08):
So there's another kind of cold plasma that exists besides
the one that you first encounter when you first start
applying voltage. And it's within that other secondary one that's
where you start getting really weird, really weird. Effects like
transmutation and probably like cold fusion something like that started
getting these weird effects because that is a state where
you have both electrons and ions like protons or whatever.

(01:55:31):
It's like hydrogen gas where they are in an equal,
equally distributed, uniform ad mixture of ions colliding with electrons.
And there's a paper by Harold Asptin.

Speaker 3 (01:55:43):
What's this called?

Speaker 4 (01:55:44):
Let me look it up real quick, Harold ast them.
It's a paper called Power from Space, the Korea Invention
cor r EA invention and as he's talking about the
doctor pop Paolo Korea, who work with free energy systems
involving plasma. So anyway, in the book, he talks about
how when you have a heavy ion like a like

(01:56:05):
a hydrogen or helium atom or something like that, colliding
with a light one like electron, that difference in mass
and both of them having charge, it does something exotic. Okay,
it does something exotic where it generates free energy somehow.
You know, you get extra energy out of that interaction.
That the greater the difference in masses between the heavy
ion and small electron. Right, So the reason why I

(01:56:28):
bring that up is because within that secondary cold plasma
state that is where you have the maximum number of
ions interacting with the maximum number of electrons, and the
more they do that, the.

Speaker 3 (01:56:39):
More free energy is being generated.

Speaker 4 (01:56:41):
So within cold plasma, a certain kind of it, you
do get these exotic free energy and other effects.

Speaker 1 (01:56:49):
I think that's the biggest thing, and the biggest takeaway
from the plasma as well, is that you go back to,
like you just recap in what we've talked with this
whole thing, is that we've talked about the nature of
the suppression of the UFO phenomenon, what it could be,
what the national security issue is the technology, and then
you go, well, what is this technology to me? All

(01:57:12):
signs are pointing towards plasma. Plasma's got these properties that
we need, and it turns out, like you just mentioned,
I came to the same conclusion that it's like basically
an infinite battery. This natural property of this plasma is
just producing what we would think of as free energy,
but it's not really free. It goes back to the
dynamic Casmir effect. You're pulling energy out of the ether

(01:57:35):
where we're sending this other particle somewhere else, and this
gives us a net positive amount of energy in our
observable reality. Now it's at the cost of something. We
took energy out of the ether. And this also speaks
to a lot of these free energy devices they cool
things down like that.

Speaker 2 (01:57:52):
There's a serial video that I could.

Speaker 1 (01:57:54):
Show right now, but I'm not going to have shown
it someveral times in my stream where they show this
John Cerel free energy device recreation, and over the five
or ten minute video, it actually cools down to the
point where the center magnet has frost on it. It's
gotten so cold, and they have a thermal thing on
it as well. So really, the point I'm trying to

(01:58:14):
make for people is it's true there is no free lunch.
So even if you're pulling energy out of this see
ocean of energy, pulling this energy out, you're pulling energy
out of that region, which naturally is going to cool
things down as well. So there's always going to be
consequences no matter what. Where we can't we can't cheat
the laws of physics. We can just break them, or

(01:58:35):
we can just bend them a little bit. Right, So
I guess this is probably a good time to close
it down. We've had a great conversation Tom. We spoke
about plasma. You gave me some new great insights into
cold plasmas. We spoke about free energy, gravity manipulation, We
spoke about aliens, non human intelligence, UFO phenomenon, the UFO hearings,

(01:58:55):
how poodoph et cetera.

Speaker 2 (01:58:57):
Is there anything else you want to mention before we
close out?

Speaker 4 (01:59:00):
Yeah, I want to say for you guys that are
interested in this fringe physics stuff, check out the works
of David Maker. David Maker, he so David Maker. He's
a he's a smart guy. And what he did was
he reverse engineered general relativity. He did to general relativity
what me and others have done with Maxwell's equations to

(01:59:23):
find the hidden avenues that would expand it. And based
on that expansion of general relativity, he found equations that
show how rotating charges, especially if they wobble on their axis,
are able to produce gravitational fields, are able to couple
to space time and to warp space time in a
very efficient and effective way. Not only that, but he

(01:59:43):
also figured out that it does it especially if you
bring the voltage up to I think it was either
five hundred and eleven thousand volts or five hundred and
twelve thousand volts. But there's a singularity in voltage there
where if you take this rotating charge system and you
bring it up to that voltage, as soon as you
hit that, you get like a massive burst of thrust
or you know, either increase in weight or decrease in weight.
So David Maker, I see, is that the one I'm

(02:00:06):
trying to see on the screen.

Speaker 1 (02:00:07):
This is the paper, but this is him for sure.
I found this last time we spoke, and I I
started digging into David Maker quite a bit. Actually at
the time it was well beyond me. But I should
take another look at it now because he has heard, Like,
let me just say this real quick, because that I've
I've talked to engineers behind the scenes that I've never
spoken about that have brought up David Maker as well,

(02:00:28):
which is why I got really interested when you brought
it up.

Speaker 3 (02:00:30):
So interesting, okay, yeah, interesting. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:00:33):
He's got like four papers on a research gate. I
think one of them was co authored with Glenn Robertson,
who used to work for the team that Amy Eskridge
was part of it. Really yeah, so there's a connection
is like, you know, two degrees of separation between Amy
Eskridge and David Baker, and they probably knew each other
for all I know.

Speaker 3 (02:00:49):
Yeah, they probably did.

Speaker 4 (02:00:50):
But anyway, that science that that he figured out is
what pot Kletnov is doing is implementing him the lab. Yeah, yeah,
rotating rotating charges whose axis of rotation wobbles. Okay, So
if you look up one of plot Klutknov's more recent
experiments from like like five ten years ago, I'll say

(02:01:12):
recent because he goes back to the nineties, right.

Speaker 3 (02:01:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:01:15):
Well it's a video where he's like a vacuum chamber
and he's got like a metal disc in there, and
it's on an axis like a motor, and he spins
it up and there's like a weight that's suspended above it,
and there's a weight starts wabbling with gravitational pulses due
to the gravity being generated by this rotating disc. And
the disc is not superconducting. It has well it takes
too long to explain, but long story short, it's aluminum disc.

(02:01:35):
It's got gold gold rings impregnated into it, and there's
a builds up very high charge densities at the interface
between the gold and the aluminum, and it does it naturally.
Without any additional energy input. And so when you spin
that around and you make it wobble like that on
the axis, you get this gravitational impulse. So that's an
example of him doing that. But but he said is
he said that that particular method is not very efficient

(02:01:55):
and that the most efficient way to do it would
be through rotating magnetic fields. Just what that magvid that
Stephen Meronov developed, that's what that is. He's creating extremely
high frequency rotating magnetic fields that were operating at like
seventy five megahertz. And there's no way, there's no way
you can you can build a mechanical physical disc that
rotates that fast and that's like seventy five million times

(02:02:15):
per second.

Speaker 3 (02:02:15):
You know you can't.

Speaker 1 (02:02:16):
You can't do that, right, Why the plasma is so big?
Because the plasma now you have just this nebulous gas
that can do a move in any direction that you
need it. Just it makes a lot of sense anyway, keep.

Speaker 3 (02:02:27):
Going, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:02:28):
So so to finish up the magvid thing, what he
had was he had two sets of coils, right, So
one set of coil was like this, another set of
coils was like this, and each one produced a magnetic field. Okay,
but each set of coils was pumped in quadrature, meaning
one was given a sin wave if the only one
was given a co sine wave. So they're like ninety
degrees apart in time. And when you do that with
that sort of setup, but you end up getting you

(02:02:48):
get a synthetic rotating magnetic field. And so anything that's
in that rotating magnetic field, if a response to magnetism magnetism,
the orbitals or the electron orbitals will align with it.
So I mean that's how magnets work. You know, when
you put iron near a magnet, the orbil's print. So
what happens is because magnetism itself within a magnet or

(02:03:09):
iron a fairite because it involves electrons going around in orbit.
Like that, if you have a rotating magnetic field, you
have rotating charges that their axis of rotation ends up
rotating itself at seventy five megaherts in this case, and
that that that is that is the David Maker thing,
where you've got rotating charges whose axis is either wobbling

(02:03:29):
or rotating entirely, okay, at high voltages. So that's what
his device was doing. It was actually ionizing the air,
and then electrons were coming out the top and circulating
and going around up through the bottom. He was creating
a plasmoid using rotating magnetic fields. Yeah, and according to rumors,
for people that knew that saw the device and demonstration,
it warked time and it produced free energy. So no wonder. Yeah,

(02:03:55):
very not that magnet device, So no wonder. He died
within two weeks after producing something.

Speaker 1 (02:04:00):
Yeah, And I think we've reached a point now where
maybe this is what will end on?

Speaker 2 (02:04:03):
Is that?

Speaker 1 (02:04:04):
What do you think's changed between that was probably like
what the seventies or something and now because it seems
like something has changed from my perspective, because a I'm
still alive and I've been exposing all this science and technology.
You are too right, and you might just say, well,
we're just small fish in a big pond, and you know,
we're making small ripples, but we're not making big change.

(02:04:26):
But it does feel like they're letting some of this
stuff come out, you know, and some of it, like
I think we are in agreement. That's the technology that
they're afraid of coming out. But what is it you
think change? Do you think that they've just given up
they've gotten tired of hiding it. Do you think that
it's going to come out inevitably anyway? Do you think
there's another explanation? What do you think is going on?

Speaker 4 (02:04:47):
Yeah, I think there's a timetable that they have towards
where they want this to come out, because they can.

Speaker 3 (02:04:53):
So the thing is, if you release it.

Speaker 4 (02:04:55):
Prematurely, then we would not have been on this geopolitical
track that we've been on for the past thirty forty
fifty years. And for some reason, they wanted this to
happen until a certain point in the future. It could
be within ten years, it could be within thirty years,
who knows, But I think I think well, I mean,
we are reaching various technological singularities, even with AI right
coming up within the next ten, ten, twenty years, So

(02:05:16):
I think they want it to happen during that time
period and not a moment before. So if someone tries
to come out with a free energy device before that
they're ready for it, before they have all the pieces
in play to exploit it, that's not good for them,
you know, because then we'd be preempting them. So they're
going to kill us off if we do it beforehand.
But still like, right now, you and I we can
talk about this. We can talk about this, and you've

(02:05:38):
known people that probably have working devices, Okay, but it's
when they have working devices that they're going to release
to the world that affects things on an economic, political,
geopolitical level, that's when they get whacked. So we're still
in the danger zone. But at least we can talk
about it.

Speaker 1 (02:05:56):
Yeah, And people ask me like, hey, Ash, and what
happened with your whole ether tech energy device thing that
you were doing? And I say, just do you listen
to what Tom just said right there. It's one thing
to talk about it conceptually. It's also another thing to
see it with your own eyes. It's a whole other
thing to try to get on CNN with it, right.
And when you start to try to do those types

(02:06:17):
of things, that's when you see the full force of
the suppression. That's when you see the disinformation. People come
out and say, I mean I actually research this. There's
several people who literally they basically they are fit PhD
physicists whose job it is to testify on behalf of
the government that when people are developing free energy devices
that they're kooks and cranks, and then it's pseudoscience and.

Speaker 2 (02:06:38):
All this stuff.

Speaker 1 (02:06:39):
It's scary to see that stuff, and some people might
even believe it themselves.

Speaker 3 (02:06:44):
Oh I'm sure they do.

Speaker 1 (02:06:45):
Yeah, you know, and that's and that's so it goes
to show that guys like this isn't a game, Like
there's something happening at a major level here and these
this physics is real. Many many, many people have discovered
it throughout time. We can push as hard as we can,
but ultimately, I guess the last question for you is,
so what do we do knowing all this information, knowing

(02:07:07):
the history of the suppression on it, Tom, what is
your view on how we progress?

Speaker 4 (02:07:14):
I think the best thing would be to use weaponized
open source crowdsourcing of this information, because then it's not
just one person, one inventor, who has something. So so
the tyfficult pattern is an inventor discovers something amazing, they
think about it. Should I release this to the world.

Speaker 1 (02:07:32):
No.

Speaker 4 (02:07:32):
I spent like ten twenty years developing it. I should
make money off this? Okay, A right, fine, I'm gonna
make money off this, So therefore I have to keep
it secret. I have to try to get investors and
have to start signing deals, and this process takes time,
and you start signaling to the powers that be that hey,
I've got something, but I haven't released it to the
world yet. So if you kill me off now, I
will never release it. And guess what happens. That's what happens.

(02:07:53):
So stan Meyer, he had a technology and he cloaked
it in a lot of misdirection, you know. And and
so therefore when he was just about to sign that deal,
he stood up and he claimed, I've been poisoned, and
he falls over dead in the parking lot.

Speaker 2 (02:08:09):
I would say, is that what if?

Speaker 1 (02:08:11):
Also there's this element of I've seen this pattern where
when people figure it out, they go, oh, it was
it was that easy. Oh everybody's going to figure this out.
Like next year. They think like, oh, everyone's going to
figure this out. And so they start, you know, doing
the same things. So you said, they start patenting things,
they start trying to make investment deals. The thing they

(02:08:32):
don't do is they don't start you know, putting it
on the blockchain or doing a bunch of interviews. Usually
they they get like that, and then the problem is
that it doesn't come out. It never comes out. And
so now we've just got people with these patents and
then everybody, we've got all these patents out there, they
claim to be able to do free energy type stuff
and nobody thinks they're real and what have you.

Speaker 2 (02:08:52):
Uh So there may be there's an element of that.

Speaker 4 (02:08:53):
Yeah, yeah, especially especially if the principle is simple, like
you said, if it's very easy, and then that everyone
else can figure out. Usually usually what they end up
doing is they end up releasing something about it because
people are gonna want to know anyway, but they misdirected
with a bunch of complicated extras that don't need to
be part of it, and so.

Speaker 1 (02:09:14):
Sabotage in there. So somebody tries to copy it or whatever.

Speaker 4 (02:09:16):
Then yeah, yeah, yeah right, and all of a sudden,
everyone else is that.

Speaker 2 (02:09:20):
Everybody's like, oh, I'm going to recreate it, and I failed.

Speaker 4 (02:09:22):
It's like no, I know, I know, and people try
to recreate it and like, oh my god, I got
to buy like a like ten thousand dollars worth of
materials to create a special magnet recipe or something. I'm
talking about Floyd Sweet for example. Things like that. You know,
the principle is probably very simple, but they added all
this complicated conditions to it, and they say, only if you
do this and this and this and this this do
you get the effect. And the people try to replicate it,
but of course again do everything, and it fails because

(02:09:44):
they missed the original simple thing. And then the other
problem is these inventors they stumble upon something, but they
don't one hundred percent know why it's doing what it does,
and so they have to come up with their own
crazy theory about why it is. And so therefore you've
got all these different inventors with their own crazy theory
that all contradict each other about what it is. So
if you had the unified theory that you could explain

(02:10:04):
all of it with one common, correct, true science instead
of all these little half baked attempts at trying to understand, like, oh,
there's a little gyroscopic ether particles. We'll call them etherons
or something, and you know, maybe that's the case, but
I think most of the time they're just trying to
grasp at what it could actually be.

Speaker 3 (02:10:19):
So there's so much misdirection.

Speaker 4 (02:10:20):
And plus then you've got Charlatan's writing, You've got probably
like government disinformants in there as well. Trying to lead
people astray. It's a it's a dangerous mindfield. So like,
kudos to anyone like you or anyone else who's who's
trying to really brave the dark, choppy waters and trying
to figure out what that island of truth actually is.

Speaker 1 (02:10:39):
Yeah, and I know we've been going for a while.
I want to I want to wind it down. But
that reminded me too of you know, I've reached out
to a lot of physicists here and there about just
input on what have you. One of them was a
professor named David Greer from n YU who he several
years ago, was making the rounds on you know, the
media for developing this tractor. And it's funny because I

(02:11:01):
messaged him about it and he got very defensive over
the idea that there's no special physics going on, but
he said it was. He literally it was magic. He
couldn't explain it. And it goes to the point that
you just mentioned, which is this idea that like a
lot of people don't even know how they invented the
thing they did. I'm like, do you think this could
be like a negative energy laser that you're doing here?
Because it has like the same properties. No, no, there's nothing.

(02:11:22):
There's nothing exotics, magical, it's just normal energy. And I'm going, yeah,
I know, it's you know, everything is like there's anything
that we can see, we have an explanation for it.
But I just think that that mindset is a good
analogy to where academia is right now, where it's like,
we've got these ideas out there, We've spoken about them
for two hours on this live, on this interview, and

(02:11:43):
yet they don't get taken seriously. And we've seen these inventors,
these papers, some of these guys like Ken Shoulders. This
guy was developing microelectronics before microelectronics were a thing. He
was developing drones before drones were a thing. These are
not lightweight guys, are aren't random cranks in their garage.
So what would be your message to humanity for the

(02:12:07):
people out there wondering when this is going to come out?
What would you tell them to reassure those people?

Speaker 4 (02:12:12):
Well, so the question is what I'm about to say
is a reassuring or not?

Speaker 3 (02:12:16):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (02:12:18):
So I so there there's an inventor that I used
to know, and after he developed a breakthrough and developing
a water powered engine that actually truly just ran on water,
no other funny business. Yeah, he was dead within a
month and a half. I was I was about to
go visit him to show it, you know, see what
what he developed, and he died shortly after. But anyway,

(02:12:38):
one of the things that he told me is that
he thinks that one day there will come a time
where mounting economic and climate and other disasters are going
to just death by a thousand cuts to these systems. Yeah,
so the government will not have the resources anymore to
maintain their grip of control. And at that point you
will have a flourishing of suppressed vents that can no

(02:13:00):
longer be kept down because there's just no longer no
longer enough band power to keep them suppressed.

Speaker 1 (02:13:07):
So I think war or to break out, and we
were to use them in wars out another possibility.

Speaker 4 (02:13:13):
I would say that it's only it would only be
used in war if there is no other option, like
if America, like for example, America's Black Ops programs, if
they themselves were at risk of being wiped out by
invading Russians or Aliens or whatever it is, then they
would pull it out. But up until that point, I
think they'll I it's a bigger risk to reveal it
then to keep it secret, you know, so that they'll
keep it secret until they can't anymore.

Speaker 2 (02:13:33):
So yeah, but finish your thoughts. Sorry.

Speaker 4 (02:13:36):
Yeah, But but the thing is we can't really depend on
them because that'll be their timetable. So I think it's
up to us to continue doing the research, the experimentation
to open source it. And the thing is, if you're
someone who does discover magical principle like anti gravity or
free energy or something, you're gonna have to make that
hard choice. Are you going to be like Gallum and

(02:13:56):
the Lord of the Rings with your precious or are
you going to sacrifice yourself for humanity and put it
out there in a way that can't be suppressed. You know,
blockchain it whatever, open source it.

Speaker 3 (02:14:08):
It's really the only way to go. I mean, that's
the only way to do it.

Speaker 1 (02:14:12):
I agree, man, And so my approach has been we've
just got to teach people, We've got to wake people up.
And that's why I've been doing this podcast, is why
I wanted to talk to you today, That's why I
do my live streams, is that this stuff is too
hard for people to understand unless they have the framework
to understand it. It was Richard Feynman that spoke about the idea.
He was asked about what is magnetism, and he said, well,

(02:14:33):
unless you understand the principles, then it doesn't make any
sense to even try to explain magnetism to somebody. And
I think that's true of a lot of this physics
is unless you understand that there's an ether, there's no
point talking about free energy because you can't understand how
it's possible. Yeah, so, Tom, I want to thank you
very much. It's been an awesome conversation. Go ahead, shout
out any of anyone you want, any of your content

(02:14:55):
that you want. Let people know where they can find you.

Speaker 4 (02:14:57):
Yeah, well you can find We had mon talk do
on net alka dot net and of course on Twitter
and x as well. Like I've my I've got a
YouTube channel at YouTube slash dot com slash tommon talk
and uh yeah, I'm also the guy behind scalerphysics dot com.
So if you go to scalerphysics dot com and you
click on resources, there's like a list of various papers.

(02:15:19):
It's not complete. I mean, you yourself a featured stuff
on your channels. That's like beyond what I've included there,
so I'll have to update my list. But scalerphysics dot
com you can go there. You can read my paper
brief Introduction to Scaler Physics that mister X has a
you know that he blotted and if he's listening, you know,
hey man, hopefully we get to talk sometime. Hopefully you

(02:15:39):
get to talk to Ashen. Yeah, we do a three
way conversation.

Speaker 2 (02:15:43):
Be great.

Speaker 1 (02:15:43):
So yeah, thank you Tom, I love it. This is
another episode of hard Trews. Everybody, Thank you all.

Speaker 2 (02:15:47):
Have a great day everyone, Peace,

All Episodes

#12 | Tom Montalk - The Physics of UFOs

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

Crime Junkie

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#12 | Tom Montalk - The Physics of UFOs