#26 | Jason Jorjani – Civilization-Breaking Technology, Fusion Weapons, and Space-Time Distortion - Hard Truths

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, everybody, Welcome to another Hard Truce podcast. I'm your
host Ashon Forbes, and today I have a reoccurring guest.
I got Jason Georgiohnny back on the podcast. Guys, I'm
super excited for this. This was one of the most
if not the most popular conversation that I had last year,
and I had to bring Jason back on because I
know he has a wealth of information about history, about
the UFO topic, and specifically today's conversation about thermonuclear weapons

(00:25):
and anutronic fusion. So welcome back, Jason. Thank you for
being here.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
It's a pleasure to be with you. Ashton, long overdue.
I'm glad we're doing round two now.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
Well, let's just get right into it then. I think
the topic that I think people really just love to
hear about is the UFO topic, and last time we
spoke about it in detail. I just want to let
you know that since we last spoke, you know, I
have always I've been wondering what is the answer to
the UFO topic. Are the aliens from another dimension? Are
they from another planet? Is it future humans? And I

(00:56):
have to say I've moved more and more towards your
perspective that you presented on the last conversation about ancient
civilizations even potentially being connected to Atlantis. The more I've
dug into the physics, like the idea of a future
human civilization or the idea of resets happening, has become
almost undeniable to me. So I wanted to get your

(01:18):
thoughts on a couple of the topics that are going
out in the UFO community right now. But first I
just wanted to give you praise. The topic that I
don't think got enough play from our last conversation was
that you mentioned that under the previous Biden administration, the
person who was coordinating these supposed UFO cover up was
Avril Hines. And this was crazy to me when you

(01:40):
said this, because I had connected her to the cover
up of MH three seven zero, where she was like
the deputy director of the CIA at the time, and
she was the one justifying all the drone strikes for Obama,
which became a major scandal because we were taking out innocent people.
I can't believe that didn't get more coverage, especially because
I can firmed with one of my sources right after

(02:02):
that that yes, apparently she was the person, And it
turns out it makes sense because the DNI is the
one that's basically coordinating the entire intelligence community, So if
there is a cover up of this level, they would
have to know about it. And then the other thing
that I've come to realize, which I think people just
in general need to know, is that I was watching

(02:22):
this interview with John Ramyirz yesterday and in it it's
like he goes over our surveillance capabilities and they are
ill extensive, super extensive. The NNGA specifically manages all the
electro optical and optical surveillance, which I didn't really realize,
and he has he tell goes through the whole process.

(02:43):
If they see a UFO or something they don't recognize,
they ask to see if it's our adversary, and then
this goes up the line and eventually a report is written.
So to me, it's insane to think that the government
there can't be stuff flying around the government doesn't know
what it is and have a really good idea of
his origins. So what are you you have any follow
ups or thoughts on the avera high and suffer any
of that, you.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
Know, I believe it was after nine to eleven that
the intelligence structure of the United States was significantly reorganized,
I think maybe in the most substantive way, since the
National Security Act of nineteen forty seven established that structure
to begin with. And one of the things that they
did was they replaced the sort of central or sort

(03:29):
of nexus authority of the Director of Central Intelligence, which
was a CIA position, with the Director of National Intelligence,
and subordinated the CIA and all the other agencies under
this Director of National Intelligence. And I always wondered from
the time when that happened, because I've long been interested

(03:51):
in the intelligence apparatus of the United States, I mean
for decades. I wondered whether this was another machination by
which to create a more even more unaccountable power structure, right,
because it was long known that even the Director of
Central Intelligence wasn't the guy who was most read in

(04:14):
at the CIA. It was often the more career CIA
people who would be deputy directors. So I was thinking
maybe by creating Director of National Intelligence, they won even
more clueless, manipulable executive authority covering up, you know, de
facto what's actually going on in the intelligence apparatus. So

(04:37):
I was as surprised as you were to find out
from inside sources that the woman in that position, at
at Avril Haynes was in fact well aware of the
full range of close encounter data, you know, I mean
not just UFOs, but also the beings associated with them,
archaeological sites and discoveries associated with them, and so forth,

(05:00):
not just on Earth but across the Solar System. And
that she was in a position to you know, design
a or at least participate in the design of a
selective long term disclosure plan. That really surprised me that,
you know, the intelligence community being reorganized in that way,
giving actual authority and access to the person who was

(05:21):
in the position of Director of National Intelligence. And then
that makes you wonder, is that because it's a legit
position that comes with that degree of clearance or is
it because of Abril Haynes's own CV her own history
of clearances and positions she served it? In other words,
did Tulci Gabbert get read into the same information when

(05:44):
she assumed that position, or you know, is it that
they only disclose the stuff to Abral Haynes because of
who she was, the same way that let's say, when
George H. W. Bush became president, he was read into things,
or rather had already been read into them, because he
had previously been the director of this right, So that's
one thing I wonder about. Concomitant with that, the Department

(06:07):
of Homeland Security, I thought was a relatively superficial kind
of like security and policing agency. But lo and behold,
they're running this ConA blue program that involves UFOs that's
being run under the Department of Homeland Security. So it
appears that after nine to eleven, some significant, you know,

(06:31):
there was some significant structural re engineering of the American
intelligence apparatus.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
Thank you for explaining the UFO the situation with that
the Director of National Intelligence. I didn't realize that power
had been re kind of organized underneath the the Director
of National Intelligence from the CIA previously. Can you just
repeat what year was that that that happened.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
I don't want to make up a number. I can't
remember exactly, but I know that it was part of
the legislation that took place after nine.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
To eleven at the same time, so it was relatively
oh yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
Okay, great. Well, so a couple other quick conversations on
at the UFO topic, which is I want to get here.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
Let me just add one let me let me just
add one thing to that, which is that I mean,
it should be obvious to anybody with half a brain
who's watching, and especially your audience, who are you know,
much more clued in people.

Speaker 3 (07:26):
That.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
At the very least nine to eleven represented the most
fundamental compromising of the intelligence apparatus of the United States
and its entire history. And so obviously there would be
reason for restructuring the intelligence apparatus after that event.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
So hmm, and that makes a lot of sense. So
then previously before that, the CIA would have been potentially
the one who was organized in the UFO cover up.
After that, now it becomes the Director of National Intelligence
that the one is doing it. And that actually makes
someone sense because Avrol Hines was deputy director of the
CIA under was it James Clapper I think or John Brennan,

(08:10):
right and that and they're under fire right now from
the current administration. So I think that that whole story
makes sense. Now, where do you see the whole UFO
disclosure going. You know, last time we spoke was over
a year ago, and now you've got this age of
Disclosure movie that's being promoted out there. I surprisingly found out.
I was blocked by Dan Farrah and the Age of

(08:31):
Disclosure promotional x account, which kind of just made me
chuckle a little bit. I don't think they liked me
very much. But Joe Rogan was talking about it like
six months ago saying, Oh, it's great. I see everybody
out there saying that it's the most It's gonna break
everybody's minds. I saw a clip that had hal put
Off on it talking about the energy source of the
UFOs might be nuclear power, which is relevant to our

(08:53):
conversation here. So what is your thoughts on you know,
that Age of Disclosure movie? You think it's gonna move
the needle at all? And what are your thought disclosure
in general?

Speaker 2 (09:06):
I think that the Age of Disclosure film is going
to be used to set up a situation which some
have referred to as confirmation rather than disclosure. In other words,
there are so many high level government officials that are
being interviewed and cited in this documentary that for all

(09:26):
intents and purposes, it supplants a hearing. It takes the
place of like a hearing, where you would have the
same level of government officials testify, and all that needs
to happen after that for there to be acknowledgment of
US government knowledge, longstanding knowledge regarding close encounters is for

(09:51):
the President to come out and say something to the
effect of, yeah, I'm not going to do my Trump impersonation,
but anyway, yeah, I saw the I saw the film,
and it's true. It's true. We know and it's true,
and I'm sorry. For reasons of national security, I can't
tell you more than that. Now, what does that do?
It gets them off the hook legally, because this way,

(10:14):
with a confirmation, you know, and vague gesturing towards this
film and its contents, there aren't any specific admissions that
are gonna warrant legal action, let's say, of one defense
contractor against another, of the American people against the government,
and so on and so forth. Right, So it's a
very frankly gutless and safe way for them to acknowledge

(10:40):
the whole thing and then to refuse to say very
much else about it.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
You know, I didn't even think about that. That's such
a good take though, where it's like they could just
use it and then just say, yeah, these vague things
that are being said in here are true, and then,
like you said, now just apologist, be like, you know what,
it was the people before me that did all that
evil corrupt I mean Trump could actually say that, He
could even use that M A Street seven zero videos
to say that Obama was doing this stuff. You know,

(11:06):
beforehand I hadn't even thought about that angle. But so
if that comes.

Speaker 3 (11:10):
True, perfect Trump.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
Yeah, Trump is the perfect president to say that because
he's positioned, whether it's actually true or not, he's positioned
himself as so anti establishmentary, and he's already so vilified
and demonized everybody who came before him that, like you
just said, with a wave of the hand, all I
have to say, let abed stuff happened to let abed stuff.
It wasn't into me, you know, I'm just you know,
I actually the movie was a good movie.

Speaker 3 (11:33):
Let off It's true, end up story. Nobody asked any
more questions.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
I could totally see this happening. Actually, so I think
that's pretty pretty interesting. And Trump has They've thrown a
lot of hints out there. I think both of these
situations came after we last spoke. But Trump has said
that we have weapons that nobody understands and that nobody
is close to our level of military superiority. He said
this like two different times in very similar contexts. One

(12:00):
was in Saudi Arabia or the UAE, and then one
was at his desk, and then his White House Technology
and Science Advisor Michael Kratzio, said that we have tech.
We have the technology to manipulate time and space to
leave distance annihilated. So he's been leaking these ideas. Plus
plus NASA also said that there's life on Mars and

(12:21):
everybody just kind of ignored it. It should have been
like some of the biggest news ever. And they weren't
talking about like little green men, but they're talking about
microbial life, bacteria, you know, things like that. But still
it's significant for our understanding of life in the universe.
So I still think, like you, there's probably a non
zero chance. I'm gonna still say, though, I think it's
unlikely that Trump will do any of that, because I

(12:45):
think that these people who are like this, I don't
really know what to call them, this group that keeps
doing the same movies over and over and over again,
right the hal Putof and Chris Mellon and Crew I
don't think they're in the same team as Trump. I
could be wrong, but I get the impression that they're
kind of on the other side. I'll get the person.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
I can confirm that for you one hundred percent. These
people don't like Trump. They are very Look, here's the deal,
very long story short sure, going back to the formation
of To the Stars Academy with Tom DeLong, and by

(13:22):
the way I have it's interesting people have been comparing
lately the contents of my book Closer Encounters and my
various podcasts to Tom DeLong and what he wrote in
his books.

Speaker 3 (13:31):
I haven't read a.

Speaker 2 (13:32):
Single word Tom Delung's ever written, so the fact that
their overlap is interesting.

Speaker 3 (13:37):
But be that as it may.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
What I do know is that going back to when
Tom Delong's books were written and To the Star's Academy
was formed, and these characters who then became central to Disclosure,
began to form some kind.

Speaker 3 (13:51):
Of working group, right.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
Hell put Off and Melon, Chris Mellon and these folks.
It is pretty clear to me that it was in
coordination with John Podesta and with the expectation that Hillary
Clinton would be elected President of the United States in
twenty sixteen and they had a whole agenda to move
forward with Hillary as the disclosure president, and that got

(14:17):
basically a monkey wrench got thrown in it. So they
are now in a situation where they don't know what
to do with themselves because they've developed this whole elaborate
plan and they don't know how much of it to
move forward with and how much of it to hold back.
And you know, basically, how they're going to negotiate this
controlled disclosure with an administration that they had not been

(14:39):
coordinating with in advance.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
Wow. Man, And that makes a lot of sense to
me too. I think that people who are about our
age probably will understand that because we're old enough to
have been adults and lived through the Clinton you know,
the Clinton years, and then Hillary also is her rise
to prominence as well, and both of them they talked
about the UFO topic when not a lot of people

(15:02):
would talk about it, and I did get the impression
that all of those people are kind of aligned with,
you know, that side of the political spectrum, and it
wouldn't surprise me if they did have like a plan
for how they all wanted this go down. And then
when Trump won, which nobody expected, not even meet back then.
Is that now all of a sudden that gets flipped
on its head. Now they've got to come up with

(15:22):
a new strategy. Now they can't control Trump, you know.
And that's why too. When Trump says we have weapons,
nobody understands like that. That's not something you ever hear
Obama say, you know. And when people say, oh, Trump,
if Trump knew about the secret technology here, weapons or UFOs,
he would talk about it, Well, there there is. You're
hearing it right there. And my guess is he's pushing

(15:44):
the boundary what he can talk about. Clued.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
Yes, Now this is something I hope that we can
unpack a bit over the course of our conversation. Uh,
what exactly it means when Trump says we have we
have weapons that nobody else Okay, who's the Wii there?

Speaker 1 (16:02):
All right?

Speaker 2 (16:03):
One thing that Trump did that was extremely noteworthy was
moving Space Force to Huntsville, Alabama, because to my knowledge,
Huntsville was already the location of American secret space program technology,
and the idea that Trump would move Space Force there

(16:26):
signifies an attempt on his part to consolidate the space
assets of the United States, the black assets and the
more public assets under one centralized and more transparent control
that would answer to him as commander in chief of
the United States. I think that's what he's trying to do.
Whether he'll actually be successful doing it is entirely another matter.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
And so he moved it from Colorado too, right, And
I think there was some political ramifications when Biden, I think,
had tried to move or a sign it to Colorado.
I don't remember the exact details, but I call Huntsville,
Alabama space juice City because I refer to the zero
point energy as space juice. That's how we's dumb it
down for people that don't really want to understand it,
all right, And Huntsville, Alabama is where it's Redstone Arsenal's there,

(17:12):
NASA Marshall Space Light Center is there. I mean, that's
where it's Rocket City, USA. It's where we've developed, like
all of our propulsion technologies over the many years. So
I am hoping we get into that when we start
talking a little bit about the history and the development
of some of these propulsion technologies here in just a
little bit. But right before we get to that, I

(17:34):
didn't want to ask you two last little questions on
disclosure First of all, what's your opinion on the three
I at lis. I'll go ahead and preface that my
opinion on three ieatlysts is just a normal commet I,
but you know, I'm open to interpretations. I do want
to say that I saw I think it was a
slide from Stephen Greer where he did the math on
the speed of the comet, and it would take like

(17:55):
sixty thousand years to get here from the nearest star system,
which is Alpha Centauri. So my opinion, just straight up
is that aliens aren't going to be flying around on
super slow rocks. Even though we think of that rock
as moving fast relatively speaking, it's not moving fast enough
to get here from another solar system. But I want
to know what your thoughts are on it.

Speaker 2 (18:18):
I believe that whatever the object is, it's being used
for a massive syop. And that's why I haven't said
a word about it, because the one thing I'm convinced
of about three I.

Speaker 3 (18:30):
Atlas is that it's a syop.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
And I am you know, I don't know, I'm sorry
to say this or not, but you know, and you
know as you are.

Speaker 3 (18:41):
I'm a supporter of the state of Israel.

Speaker 2 (18:42):
I'm a very you know, very pro Israel, but Avi
Lob is a MOSAD operative. He was sent here by
the State of Israel in the nineteen eighties to acquire
technical data regarding.

Speaker 3 (18:54):
The Strategic Defense initiative.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
He worked with, you know, the the Reagan team on
Star Wars in the nineteen eighties, and it's pretty clear
he was sent by the Israelis to do that.

Speaker 3 (19:05):
So he he's a mos ODD asset or operative.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
And you know, sorry, but I really don't trust the
narrative that's coming from out of him, and I don't
expect any apocalyptic event to ensue from three I at lists.
I think it's much more like a psychological gauge and
basically a kind of you know, so social engineering experiment

(19:29):
to see, like what kind of reaction there might be
to the possibility that this could be some kind of
an interstellar you know, intelligently guided.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
That's why I always love talking to you, because you
always have the intelligent takes, you always have the high
IQ takes, and that's what my followers are. And right there,
you nailed it, which is like, if anything, what I
would consider is they're gauging the public's reaction to this
information that they're pushing out there. Are people freaking out,
are they going out and they're starting cults related to it?

(19:58):
Or are they just kind of accept of it? And
I have to be honest, you Ques.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
That's it's a look at all the religious nut chases
the New Age just you know, I mean, these people's
brains are made of jello, who are now worshiping three
I Atlas as if it's you know, the chariot for
the second Coming of Christ or the dawning of the
Age of Aquarius. And of course you know, that's the

(20:23):
intention of the social experiment to see how many morons
like that there are in the population, because you know,
God's forbid, should something actually show up, imagine what the
reaction would be.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
Exactly. That's that's the big thing, right is that are
people going to lose their minds if like aliens appear
out of nowhere and all of a sudden are just
everywhere in the sky floating around like That's that's the
thing the thing people want they want to figure out
if that is the narrative. And like you, I think
there's not going to be any apocalyptic event or anything
like that. And this is why I like having these
conversations because I think these conversations and research, the research

(20:59):
you've done, research I've done, it helps to demystify the
topic where it makes it much more difficult. I think
it makes people more resilient mentally, to you know, if
aliens were to appear out of the middle of nowhere,
we're not going to freak out and lose control or
perception of reality. We're gonna be able to compartmentalize it.
We're gonna be able to understand it. We're gonna be
able understand the context for it, where they might have

(21:20):
come from, how they might be able to do these
types of things. So that's why I like having our
conversations really too. I think it grounds it in reality
a little bit for you, especially when we're talking about
some of the most crazy, crazy things that could even
ever have happened. So one last thing before we jump
into the main event here is genre mirrors. So Genre meres.

(21:41):
I think you're familiar with him. He's a GS fifteen,
let's say, former CIA agent, and they'd say that normally
people aren't generally former and apparently they don't like being
called agents. Apparently like FBI are agents cias they have
like another word they call themselves, I learned officers. Thank
you off, Yes, And my impression I can't get a

(22:04):
beat on John Ramirez, but my opinion of him is
that he's like a white hat that wants information to
come out, but he's doing it in a relatively controlled
way where he's not he's, you know, just pushing the
boundary of what the CIA will let him say publicly.
But then he also just kind of goes like way
out and left field, out of nowhere, Like it's very
obvious that he has a huge amount of institutionalized CIA

(22:27):
knowledge about the organization, and he's taught me a lot,
I mean, Weirdly, his first post on Twitter, first post
he ever made on Twitter, when he made an account
like a six months ago or so, was to point
out that USA two two nine, which was the satellite
pair that I had incorrectly thought was taking the now

(22:48):
recognized by Gorgon's Stare wide area motion imagery of MH
three seven zero. His first post was saying that that
satellite doesn't have the surveillance capability on it that would
be required to take that video. And I'm going, that's
a weird post to make because it's like directly messaging
to me or signaling to me. But he's never directly
interacted with me in any way. And so when I

(23:10):
watch his videos where he's trying to explain the stuff
to people, I think his heart's in the right place
for trying to get this stuff out there. I'm curious,
what are your thoughts about John Ramirez and what have
you taken away from what he said.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
John Ramirez has a personal friend who follows you very closely,
so that would be the angle for that.

Speaker 3 (23:33):
So I've spoken to him.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
I spoke to him at some length, and he told
me a number of very interesting things. I'll give you
my read on him, and you know, I want to
be respectful also the fact that he probably will see this.
So my honest assessment of John Ramirez is the following.

(23:56):
First of all, he clearly has a lot of fine grained,
you know, technical information and details pertaining to various projects
of the CIA involving the history of close encounters. And
he's been in working groups with other individuals who have

(24:19):
even more access. That's one thing. The second thing, though,
that I would say about him is that, as a
function of his own sense of patriotic duty and his
a vision and conception of the United States that he
wants to hold on to. He's also blinded himself to

(24:42):
the degree of abuse of power that has taken place
in this country in the past seventy years, and he
is under the illusion that simply because the established legal
framework for special access projects shouldn't allow for certain things
needs to take place in certain programs, you know, to
make tremendous breakthroughs without any oversight whatsoever from the civilian

(25:07):
government means it. In fact, you know that that that
hasn't actually taken place. No, it has taken place. And
you know, I think a very strong argument can be made,
has been made by some people like Richard Dolin, for example,
that we have at this point pretty much a full
fledged American breakaway civilization. And that's something I think John
doesn't want to recognize because it involves, frankly, a tremendous

(25:32):
amount of criminal activity committed by a government that he
identifies with, and frankly is a member of the civil
apparatus of That's the second thing I would say about him,
And the third thing I'd say about John Ramirez is
that like any individual, he has his own belief system,
and he's very interested in the esoteric and the occult,

(25:53):
and that became clear in the course of my conversation
with him. And so there are certain things that you know,
he is projecting interpretively onto the data that he has,
which is probably more a function of his own belief
system than of you know, the information actually in possession

(26:14):
of whatever agencies and programs. And that's something that we
would all do as individuals. I mean, we all have
our own you know, interpretive matrices and belief systems and
so on and so forth.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
Yeah, you know, this is a great I'm glad we're
talking about this because I want to delve a little
bit and unpack a little bit of this. I think
your take is dead on and I hadn't even considered it,
which is that, you know, I keep wondering, like, why
is he His personal opinion he said at the end
of this video I was watching yesterday, was that he
believes that it's like the reptilians that are controlling us,

(26:43):
or you know, controlling the planet, or the reptilians of
the aliens or something like that. Right, But my research
is kind of led towards a different path that says like,
we have this, like Richard Dolans, a breakaway civilization that's
happening here, that it's not really the aliens, that it's
just everything can kind of be explained by that the
faults in humanity, like the human the human condition for

(27:05):
the most part, and that's what our main topic of
tonight was going to be. Uh So, I think that
I could see that that's why that he's in like,
you know, he's on the inside, and so he doesn't
want to think, you know, he's got the blinders on,
doesn't want to think that there could be really illegal
things happening. He even said that he was like the
I don't know if they administrator's right word or program

(27:26):
manager for one of these SEAPAC or c SE SAPs
or whatever it's called, but like basically a special access
program and he didn't want it, and he said, no,
I don't want it. I'm going to give it back,
which also would help push towards the narrative that you're
saying here, which is that he didn't want to be
involved in the weird black project stuff that they're doing
with this technology. But it was Stephen Greer that I

(27:48):
spoke to where We had a great conversation about this
because I think it is all legally classified. I think
they've just taken the UFO topic and they've put it
in with nuclear way weapons, which have the highest level
of classification, secrecy, compartmentalization out there. And if that's the case,
then what we have here is a political question. The

(28:10):
political question now is Okay, technically what's happening with suppression
of this technology is legal, but is it really legal,
especially if we're like doing CIA black operations using this
technology to maintain superiority over Russia and China. So I
think that those are the big questions for me. And

(28:31):
then yeah, like you said with John Ramirez, yeah, I
think that he just I think, Oh, the last thing
I was gonna say is that he says energy orbs
all the time, which is just for me, Like I'm
sitting here, red flags are going up because as we're
going to talk about here, did I've figured out that
plasma can be used as a nonfishient trigger in thermonuclear

(28:52):
weapons and it can self organize if the plasma is
dense enough as well, so you could make a plasma
orb just using normal physics. And so when he says
that all the time, I sit and think in my head,
where are these guys seeing plasma orbs. They're not nuclear engineers,
so they're not working on nuclear weapons. They're in the CIA,
they're in intelligence. The most likely case is one of

(29:14):
the examples he gives the NNGA. They're looking at surveillance
of you know, satellites, drones, gorgon stare, all this stuff,
and they see an ORB flying around in the sky. Right.
And now, think about this information is compartmentalized. So if
you're just a CIA analyst reviewing footage, you look at
that and your biases are going to say, WHOA, I'm

(29:36):
looking at aliens. Look, these aliens are flying around here.
But you don't know that our own government is making
plasma orbs like this using fusion propulsion that Lockheed Martin built.
And so I could totally see how even some of
these other whistleblowers in the UFO community they believe they're
looking at aliens because they know we don't have conventional

(29:58):
technology that does those things. But what they don't realize
is that there are layers of compartmentalization that goes beyond
even what they have in this CIA or in the
intelligence community that can explain that that is, you know,
breakaway civilization level technology. Do you kind of concur with
that assessment or any other additional details.

Speaker 3 (30:18):
So two things.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
First, I disagree with you that it's all happening under
very sophisticated legalistic machinations to protect special access and black projects.
And I want to over the course of our conversation
about the history of a neutronic nuclear fusion weaponry and

(30:41):
where it might have come from and how we may
have developed it. I want to also partly lay out
the case for why I think that that argument doesn't
hold water, and why I'm convinced that there is an
intercontinental at this point globally disperse American imperial power structure

(31:04):
which is completely unaccountable to the civilian government of the
United States, and that that's the entity that actually controls
this technology. That's also the entity that carried out nine
to eleven. And so you know where this argument breaks
that you know, all these programs are taking place under
a legal umbrella that manages special access projects. No, I mean,

(31:27):
there's no way that there's a legal framework that justifies
fielding an operation like nine to eleven, in which three
thousand Americans were incinerated. Okay, that was done by a
crime syndicate, and that crime syndicate is has been for
many decades in possession of extremely advanced technology that I

(31:48):
think may have at one point emerged from out of
special access projects, but it's now been so corporatized and
even in some cases moved offshore in various ways, so
that really, you know, the civilian government has no control
over whatsoever. But let me comment on and we'll we
have to unpack that over the course of our conversation.
But let me comment specifically on which you said about

(32:10):
the orbs, just you know, and and the question of
whether they're being misidentified as some form of extraterrestrial intelligence. Here,
I think it's very important to draw distinction between two
different kinds of orbs, right, I mean, there is plasma
sheath technology, which for example, prevents us from taking a

(32:34):
very clear photograph of an unconventional airframe. One of the
reasons why UFOs are so hard to photograph or film
is because they have this plasma sheath around them, which
also makes it impossible to shoot them because anything that's
fired toward them kind of bounces off and around the
plasma sheath as we've seen in some of these recent

(32:54):
videos right that they've disclosed through Congress. So there are
there are technologically engineered objects that we're making and that
potentially other people like Nordic's whatever, have made that have
plasma sheaths around them.

Speaker 3 (33:12):
These need to be distinguished.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
From some of the things that John Keel wrote about,
you know, for decades in his research on UFOs in
the nineteen sixties and seventies and books like The Muffman
Prophecy and you know, Operation Trojan Horse.

Speaker 3 (33:25):
He developed this whole theory that there were there were
energy beings or a kind of energy being that could
that could develop a decentralized consciousness that could like project
itself into many entities simultaneously, and that these energy entities

(33:47):
could metamorphose and transform into what appeared to be solid
UFOs and then back into energy. And he called them
soft UFOs versus hard UFOs, and he thought that the
soft UFOs were some kind of an energy entity that
interacted with consciousness and potentially manipulated human perception, and that

(34:10):
these entities could appear as solid objects in some cases,
as one configuration of a solid object to one person
and a different configuration of a solid object to another
person standing right next to the first witness.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
Okay, And in my treatment of the close encounter subject
toward the end of my book Closer Encounters, I suggest
that this kind of thing is evidence for a truly
non human intelligence and potentially an artificial superintelligence that's engaging
humanity and probably has been for all of human history, and.

Speaker 3 (34:49):
That the.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
Fingerprints or tentacle marks of this entity bear all the
hallmarks of the trickster archetype. That it's a very playful
in some senses, you know, a little bit terrifying and
provocative in its behavioral pattern, and it's aiming to catalyze
a certain type of development and mutation of human consciousness.

(35:14):
So I think those types of orbs or energy manifestations
need to be distinguished from the kind of plasma fusion
technology that you've been researching.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
That makes sense, and I think that's fair. And I
have been pretty standoffish about the alien question, or at
least noncommittal. I actually am open to really any interpretation
that's out there. My bit and why the take that
I keep saying is that I just think it's going
to be probably whatever is like the least conventional or
you know, something that we're not expecting. So machine superintelligence

(35:51):
is one of the things that I you know, i'd
give some way too, especially because now we look at
how powerful AI has become. This is what I tell
you is that look at how far our technology has advanced.
It's advancing exponentially, especially over the last one hundred years
or so. And you say, okay, well, our sun is
going to last for several billion years. We believe let's

(36:14):
just say that that's going to last for some That
means civilizations could exist for millions, if not billions, of years,
and ours has only been around for basically a fraction
of that time. So if we figured this out in
that period of time, aliens are going to be super advanced.
There's no reason why there can't be a super advanced
machine intelligence or even conscious intelligent and and I don't

(36:35):
see a reason why plasma couldn't be conscious under the
right conditions either, because if I don't want to say myself,
but if the research into Evo's ball lightning also now
called field diverse configuration plasmoids, is true, then dense enough
plasma will self organize and can produce a stable structure,

(36:56):
and once you've produced a stable structure, now it's like, well,
what is that? Can that be conscious? Can that be alive?
We have a lot of different definitions of life on
this planet, from everything from plants to octopuses and squids
and bacteria and then human beings. So I'm open to
all of those things being totally possible. And for me,

(37:17):
it's just a matter of I know, the government must
know more have a much better idea of what the
situation is. Either there's a machine intelligence that's looking over
us and it's been watching us and monitoring us our
entire civilization. Maybe there's an underwater base like some people
have claimed, you know, maybe that we've where civilizations just
forgot are past. May it could be a lot of

(37:38):
different things that are out there. Let's just get right
into it actually here. So we've had because I think
that a lot of the conversation we're having is weaved
into what the topic the main topic for today, and
so the main topic is actually a hypothesis, which is
our UFOs nuclear weapons. And this can kind of be
taken in a lot of different directions. So I'll just

(38:00):
start with my opinion and then you can kind of
start to feed off of that. I definitely wanted to
dig into the historical aspects of it. But what I've
discovered and based on our last conversation, is that like
Tesla was right about this, Tom Bearden has been talking
about Tesla being right about the science. Unification of quantum
mechanics and general relativity have already been figured out for

(38:20):
a long time. I think that what happened, and I
actually agree that the technology I think kind of originally
came from maybe the Nazis in World War Two, is
that we built the hydrogen or the A bomb, and
we took nuclear weapon research to the next level in
the sixties with the H bomb. We built something called

(38:42):
a clean fusion bomb, and then we passed a partial
Nuclear test Ban treaty right after that. And when you
look at the historical relevance, let's say, of the UFO topic,
the UFO topic starts to take off like in the
sixties seventies after that. Before that, yes, there were sightings
like the Foo Fighters, et cetera. But it really just

(39:04):
became a popular thing in pop culture after that period
of time. And the thing that really blew me away
because a lot of the sightings recently have been these
energy orbs like John Ramirez talks about, or plasma orbs
or things that are based on plasma, including like you said,
the Congressional I think it was Eric Burlison that released

(39:27):
that video of that plasma being hit by a hellfire
missile breaking apart and keep going. So I was surprised
to find out when I did the research into nuclear
weapons that fried Art Winterberg, who was a Project paper
Clip scientist, came over in like the fifties, I think
at around the age of eighteen. He talked about non

(39:47):
fish and ignition in thermonuclear weapons and his textbook about
the physical principles of thermo nuclear weapons, and he says
that we can use plasma basically, use plasma as an
electric bomb, as an electric trigger to detonate a fusion bomb.
And so what this would do is it would get
rid of the a bomb portion of the thermonuclear weapon.

(40:09):
Now you don't have that initial explosion that you're using
to create the fusion reaction to happen. And so I
sit there and I wonder, huh, maybe these orbs that
are flying around are our fusion ignition devices that have
been morphed into multiple purposes and uses that we took
this nuclear weapons research and we said, Okay, we're gonna

(40:30):
ban this so nobody else can do it. And then
we start coming up with like the only way I
can describe it as like customized nukes that have different purposes,
some that maybe are just surveillance, some that are potentially,
you know, super destructive, but then others that might manipulate
space time. So what are your initial thoughts on this hypothesis.

Speaker 3 (40:56):
There's so much there, and you know reasons.

Speaker 2 (41:01):
One of the reasons I was, you know, very keen
on having this conversation with you, is that actually, for
a certain period, very early on in my life, very
early on, at a very young age, I thoroughly researched
nuclear weapons. I mean I was really into nuclear weapons
technology and nuclear strategic doctrine. And it was at the

(41:25):
same time as I got into UFOs in a serious way,
and I always suspected that there was some deep connection
between these two. Now, of course, this was decades before
Robert Hastings came out with his monumental study of UFOs
and nukes, showing you know how basically any nuclear you know,
high energy, high entry nuclear, you know, event is like

(41:48):
a flame for for the moths of the UFO phenomena.
I mean, they're like you know, bees drawn to honey
in terms of any nuclear signature.

Speaker 3 (41:58):
So he's he's extensively documented that.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
But you know, decades before that, I had the suspicion
that there's some connection here and that you know, ultimately
also justifies the classification of UFOs under nuclear secrets classification
in the United States. So but you know, it was
when I really started researching the technology of Nazi Germany

(42:22):
and it's transferred to the United States in the late
nineteen forties that I found a lot of information that
I think is corroborative of what you've discovered, and it's
very disturbing information, frankly, So let me just say it's
not you know, it's not lost on me that what

(42:43):
I'm about to share with the you know, listeners is
deeply disturbing, especially for somebody who loves our country.

Speaker 3 (42:52):
Okay, and this is some stuff.

Speaker 2 (42:54):
That I've also written about in greater detail on my
sub stack. I have two pieces relevant to it, but
one is called Nuking the Matrix, and I'll come to
why I titled it that, and the other one is
called the breakaway culture. And I think I'm also going
to probably come out with one more piece timed together
with whenever you release this conversation that focuses more specifically

(43:18):
on the nuclear angle.

Speaker 3 (43:20):
So here's the deal.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
Okay, First of all, nuclear weapons were invented by Nazi Germany.
They were not invented by the United States. Okay, nuclear
fusion was discovered by Otto Haan and Fritz Strassmann in
nineteen thirty eight, and I think that by nineteen thirty nine,
in very short order, they had already recognized the weapons

(43:43):
application of this. And one thing that few people know
is that the term Manhattan Project doesn't really come from
the fact that you know, at Columbia University and at
Los Alamos in various other places they were trying to
figure out what the Germans meant by a nuclear weapon.
It's because, beginning right there in nineteen thirty nine nineteen forty,

(44:06):
the Germans had devised a plan to drop one of
these on Manhattan. And there are these maps that the
Allies discovered after the war that show Lower Manhattan as
a nuclear target. They even flew these the largest cargo
planes that they had, which was the what was it
the yunkers, the Yunkers JU three ninety, which was a

(44:29):
comparable nuclear payload capable plane as Thenola Gay that dropped
the bombs on Hiroshima, Nagasaki. They flew these Yunkers three
ninety right to the coast of Manhattan, photographed Manhattan.

Speaker 3 (44:41):
And flew back to Germany, in other words, as a
kind of test run.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
So Manhattan Project comes from this, the term Manhattan Project.
And I think there's good evidence to suggest and this
evidence has been dug up primarily by let's say three researchers.
One is Plimpton Carter Heidrich, who wrote a book called
Critical Mass. Then you had this German author who wrote

(45:12):
a book called Hitler's Bomb. What was this guy's name,
I'll come back to it, but the book is called
Hitler's Bomb. And then of course Joseph Farrell also has
researched this, and specifically in his book Reich of the
Black Sun. So there's evidence to suggest that the Heisenberg

(45:33):
nuclear weapons program was a ruse and a red herring,
that the Germans deliberately basically diluted and distracted the Allies
by fronting this false nuclear program led by the most
likely candidate. You know, the most brilliant nuclear physicist of Germany,

(45:54):
you know, Werner Heisenberger, the guy you'd expect to be
running the program, but that actually there was another secret
program that was run by Kurt Deabner, Walter Gerloch and
Hans Kammler and Ronald Richter. And so Walter Gerloch is
important in this regard because Walter gerloch specialization was spin

(46:16):
polarization and electromagnetic torsion. And Hans Kommler is significant because
Hans Kammler has been identified as the leader of a
project outside Prague in Czechoslovakia, in Celicia, where the Reich
at the Skota Works was constructing this device that says

(46:40):
hitherto been known as Degloca the bell, or another one
of its names was the beehive the beaninstock because it
made a bee buzzing sound when it was activated. And
what this thing was was two counter rotating drums filled
with a serum of mercury and thorium isotope and subjected

(47:03):
to first extreme torsion by electromagnets, and then the plasma
state that the nuclear isotope would go into would be
magnetically compressed into fusion. That's what this bell device seems

(47:24):
to have been. And meanwhile you've got Walter Gerloch also
on this project, associated with Hans Kammler, specializing in spin
polarization and electromagnetic mechanisms. Now there's a particular document in
the National Archives that's really relevant here. It's called the

(47:46):
Zenser Affidavid. It's an affidavit of a German pilot by
the name Hans Zenser, who was We have in this
memo the specific location that he took off from and
what his flight root was, and the observation that he
made in October of nineteen forty four of a detonation

(48:08):
on the Baltic Sea coast of Germany where he saw
a mushroom cloud with a pressure wave extending out from it,
and inside the mushroom cloud various multi color lights fizzling,
which is a sign of leftover fissile material continuing to

(48:28):
react in a mushroom cloud. He also experienced the emp
effects his radio went out as he was flying near
this detonation. So it appears that what Hans Zinser is
describing an October of nineteen forty four is some kind
of a Nazi nuclear test. It'd be one thing if
that was the only piece of documentation we have. There's

(48:49):
also a report from an Italian journalist called Luigi Romersa,
and what Luigi Romersa tells us is that Benito Mussolini
sent him and a few other Italian dignitaries to Rugen
Island in the Baltic Sea on October eleventh, nineteen forty four,

(49:13):
and he says that when he got there, he saw
there were a few other Italian dignitaries also sent by Mussolini,
and there were some Japanese dignitaries. And what Romersa claims
is that the Germans had them, quote unquote, put on
something that looked like diving suits and go into a
bonker on Rugen Island, and they witnessed the detonation of

(49:36):
a device that flattened a bunch of the trees and
some structures that they had set up there, I guess
for structural stress tests. And after this they had to
take shelter for a certain period of time, and then
Romersa was flown to Berlin to be debriefed before he
was sent back to Mussolini.

Speaker 3 (49:56):
I believe there are also.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
Some Japanese communicates that were in intercepted by the Allies
around the same time where the Japanese are talking about
a German test of a tremendous new weapon that had
taken place. So we have two different accounts of this
event from let's say October eleven to twelve on Rugen
Island in the Baltic Sea. And then we have another
account which comes from this guy Rayner Karl's book, Hitler's Bomb,

(50:23):
of potentially a second test in March of nineteen forty
five in an area known as the Thuringian Forest, near
a town called Ordruf in the Thuringian Forest region. And interestingly,
when the Allies were advancing on Nazi Germany, Hitler, Hitler
whatever whoever was actually in charge at that point, which I,

(50:44):
by the way, I don't think was Hitler, they prioritized
the defense of this area over the defense of Berlin.
They prioritize the defense of the Thuringian Forest area and
of the Skoda works where Kammler was building the bell
over the defense of Berlin, which tells you a lot.
So apparently radiation tests in this area of the Thuringian
Forest have picked up like traces of you know, potentially

(51:10):
a nuclear detonation having taken place there.

Speaker 3 (51:13):
And there are.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
Witness accounts of German soldiers saying that like they brought
concentration camp inmates there and their shadows were impressed on
the stones like you would have seen it, you know, Hiroshima.
But it was a very small blast. From witness accounts,
it would have been something like three kilotons. So you

(51:36):
have these, you know, accounts of German potential nuclear tests.
Then there's the fact that, and this is coming mainly
from Carter Heydrich's book Critical Mass, the memos exchanged between
Oakridge and Los Alamo's laboratories in the months leading up
to the Trinity test in July nineteen forty five showed

(51:58):
that there wasn't anywhere near enough you we did not
have anywhere near enough uranium for the Trinity device or
for the Hiroshima bomb.

Speaker 3 (52:08):
The Nagasaki bomb was plutonium. And also they hadn't figured
out the trigger mechanism properly for the Nagasaki bomb, the
plutonium bomb. So lo and behold.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
In May of nineteen forty five, this German submarine comes
over and on board is a nicely wrapped gift of
a shit ton of uranium, and this guy Schlick, I
think his name was Hans Schlick, who was an expert
in the timing of plutonium bomb detonation, in other words,

(52:39):
the equal application of the charge over the fisile material
in the plutonium. But this was his expertise, and he
just happens to be on the submarine with a shit
ton of uranium which never was accounted for, and all
of a sudden, our deficit of uranium that we see
in the memos between Oakridge and Los Alamos is solved,
and we do the trinity test, and you know, we

(53:00):
manufacture the Hiroshima bomb. By the way, the Hiroshima bum
design was never tested before we dropped it in Japan.
Really yeah, that particular one was never tested. The plutonium
one had been tested, but the uranium one wasn't. Why
didn't we test Probably because we knew that it.

Speaker 3 (53:17):
Would work, because the Germans had already tested it.

Speaker 1 (53:20):
Wow, that's really compelling. And so I want to touch
on a couple of those things that you said, which is,
first of all, with the connection of nuclear weapons. I
agree with you that there is this lore of the
UFOs being connected to nukes and the idea goes that,
you know, I think if you believe like Robert Bob Solace,
for example, has got a pretty famous story about the

(53:42):
UFOs shutting down nukes. So there's been this connection even
with the nuclear power plant meltdown in Japan as well,
that they claimed that they saw UFOs over that. But
it always felt like there's gotta be more to it,
which is why why I'm really glad we're doing a
deep dive into this here, because I think you can
just directly connect UFOs to nukes in a much more
significant way, starting with the energy source and also with

(54:07):
the classifications, because when we look at it, we go
why is the Department of Energy the lead? Why are
they over the UFO topic? If it's about aliens, it
wouldn't wouldn't it be like literally anybody but the Department
of Energy that would be in charge of it. But no,
it's the Department of Energy because the question is what
is the power source for these UFOs that are flying around?

(54:27):
And then connecting it to the I mean, I'm going
to give you even more to connect it to what
you just said, just corroborate some of the stuff that
you're saying here is that Heisenberg. Heisenberg was actually Frii
Wrot Winnerberg's mentor, the guy that I was just mentioning
whose textbook I read about thermonuclear weapons, that was his mentor.
Was Heisenberg. That Heisenberg, the guy that we pulled over
from Project paper Clip. And the shadows on the walls

(54:50):
that you described that story that spooks me because that
reminds me so much of them. Ah three seven zero
video where you see the reflection of the plane, because
it's if I'm right, and that's a we're looking at
total internal reflection where which is just a physics phenomenon
of waves, and you could see how if they use
some kind of fusion bomb or experimental nuclear weapon on people,

(55:13):
maybe it wormholed them somewhere else or rip them to
shreds or something, and all that was left was their
shadow on the wall, which is, like you said, horrific
to even think about. I mean a lot of what
we're talking about here, guys, is might trigger you if
you are sensitive to any of these topics. So I apologize.
The other thing I want to say is the deglock
the Deglox connection is obviously been connected to the UFO

(55:34):
phenomenon for a while. I find it to be the
most credible explanation for anti gravity research. If you go
back in the history of anti gravity research in general,
you lead back to that. Two things that you mentioned
related to it that I think hold a lot of
weight when it comes to the physics. One is the buzz,
the buzzing sound that it makes. Why is there a

(55:55):
buzz Because we're using pulsed current. So when you use
high frequency pulse current, is gonna sound just like a
buzzing sound, just like a be wo sound. And that
seems to be a very consistent requirement. And a lot
of this anti gravitational or gravitational manipulation technology that I
find is that you need to take a pulse current

(56:16):
and you need to flow it through that potentially very
high frequencies. Salvator Paist was actually just on my podcast
last week talking about this idea that time itself is
connected to frequency, and that if you have a rapid
change or increase in frequency, you can potentially have a
reversed and pooral excursion, which means that you can actually
reverse the flow of time if you rapidly shift your frequency,

(56:40):
which could then explain really all these anti gravitational effects
that we're seeing. And then the last thing is the mercury,
the mercury aspect spinning mercury, and I think you said
thorium as well. But one thing I found was really
interesting from a video I was watching a very smart
individual who was doing research into plasma physics and like
photon plasma physics, messing with light and stuff like that

(57:02):
to get plasma to light up and to follow certain paths.
He said that metal could almost be considered a plasma
because if you look at what it requires to be
a plasma, plasma has free electrons. We've ripped the electrons
off of our atom, and so now we've got our
free electrons, and we got this soup of electrons and

(57:22):
positively charged ions together. And metal actually has a very
high electron drift rate, so the electrons relatively free in
metal as well. So you could actually imagine that there
could be like a phase transition that happens in the
mercury or what have you that basically has it act
like a plasma.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
Now at that exactly, and also notice that mercury is
particularly electromagnetically reactive, so for tortion, it's ideal.

Speaker 1 (57:51):
Yeah, and you can even just see if you go
on X or on social media, you'll find videos of
people just taking mercury and connecting a circuit to it
and then it just are to spin, you know, starts
to spin as well. So I find all of that
to have a huge amount of credibility with respect to
the kind of story. So I guess what we're saying
here is that, or at least the story is being presented,

(58:13):
is that the United States basically stole nuclear weapons from
the Nazis.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
Well, let me give you a few more data points
before we still lead jump to conclusion, because I think
the picture is even darker than that. Okay, okay, now
before I'm going to lay out a couple more very
specific data points that have to do with this. But
just as a as a preface to that, I can
only say this in a really abbreviated form right now,

(58:40):
because otherwise we're going to go down the whole other
rabbit hole. But let me point people to again a
couple of articles on my substack, one called the Breakaway
Culture and the other one Nuking the Matrix, in which
I discussed this. I also discussed it in my book
Closer encounters that people always talk about Operation paper Clip.
They get that the Central Intelligence Agency was created through

(59:04):
the integration of General Reinhardt Galen's Eastern European Nazi spy
network into the OSS. Okay, Because we had to then
shift our focus to the Soviet Union as the enemy,
and the Nazis already had an extensive spy network in
Eastern Europe behind Soviet enemy lines, the OSS made a
deal to incorporate Galen's entire network into the United States,

(59:25):
which became foundational for the CIA. Okay, So the CIA
that's conducting paper Clip and bringing over all these Nazi
scientists is an organization now co constituted by.

Speaker 3 (59:36):
SS officers, you follow.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
Okay, Now, what cards did General Galen have to play
in order to make that deal? What cards did Martin
Bormann have to play when somehow he convinced our allies,
the British, particularly you know agent Ian Fleming, who went
on to write the Bond Novels to facilitate eight Bormont's

(01:00:00):
evacuation to Argentina, where Bormon, Martin Bormon, went on to
have a joint bank account with one Paron into the
nineteen sixties. Bormon, who supposedly died three times. There's three
conflicting accounts of his death. Is still writing checks in
his own name in Buenos Aires through Chase Bank in

(01:00:21):
the late nineteen sixties. Okay, and he's got a joint
bank account, joint Swiss bank account with one paron. All right,
all that's necessary preface for the couple of data points
that I'm going to give you now. In nineteen forty six,
one year before Roswell, there are news reports coming out
of Spain, some of which were translated into the United
States and did appear. I've seen the clippings in English,

(01:00:45):
also talking about how Atto Skorzeny, the master of psychological
operations of the Reich, is in Spain with General Francisco Franco,
the only remaining Fascist lead in Europe, and they're launching
quote rocket shaped saucers unquote toward the United States. And

(01:01:09):
these rocket shaped saucers are quote nuclear powered unquote. It
says it in the newspaper reports nuclear powered saucer shaped rockets.
Because I didn't know what the fuck to call these things, right,
so that's what they called them.

Speaker 3 (01:01:24):
And lo and behold. A year later Roswell.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
Okay, and what's found in the roswell Craft velcrow kevlar
night vision. Does this shit sound like you know, space
alien technology to you, No, it sounds like what the
Germans were testing in the North African desert cutting edge,
you know, German military technology. So there's that as one

(01:01:47):
data point. Now another data point. Nineteen fifty to fifty one,
the German nuclear physicist Ronald Richter is in Bariloche, Argentina,
with the protection and backing of one Parone who is
promising the Argentine people that Richter will use this massive

(01:02:12):
facility that's been built on Humo Island off Bariloche to
produce fusion, clean, clean nuclear fusion power for Argentinians in
the form of get this one Leader or half Leader
devices One Leader half Leader devices with clean nuclear fusion.

(01:02:38):
In nineteen fifty two, the IAEA and local Argentines do
a whole investigation into this and they say, no, we
don't understand what the fuck this is. This isn't any
fusion that we understand this. It must be a fraud,
and the whole thing goes black. After that, Ricter remains
under one Paron's personal protection, but this technology is never
shared with the Argentine people, and eventually Richter goes to

(01:03:02):
all kinds of interesting places Libya and other places. You know,
the Germans also had an interesting footprint in the Arab
world after World War Two. But then he comes back
and he lives out the rest of his life in
peace in Argentina. So what was this clean fusion? And
by the way, to the day he died, Ronald Richter
said it was not a fraud. I was not lying.

(01:03:25):
This was a real technology, and you know, we did
this thing. So and when they went into his facility,
what they found were extremely high voltage electro magnets that
were being used to compress plasma. Okay, that's nineteen fifty one. Wow,

(01:03:49):
we achieved dirty fusion neutronic fusion in nineteen fifty two.
What this suggests is that people well placed in the
US intelligence community and probably a large number of corporatists
who backed the rise of the Nazis in the first place.
I'm talking about the Rockefellers, the Carlisles, the Bush family,

(01:04:10):
and you know the people who set up the OSS.
These people made a deal with Martin Bormann and Hans Kammler,
and they had access to the kind of technology that
the Bell Project represented, and the kind of technology that
Ronald Richter was continuing to develop in Bariloche, and the
kind of technology that was on board those sauce or

(01:04:32):
shaped rockets that you know, Otto Skorzeni was launching across
the Atlantic from Spain toward the United States. So what
that presents to you is an argument for the Germans
having achieved a neutronic nuclear fusion plasma fusion by nineteen

(01:04:53):
fifty one. Now that makes a lot more sense out
of why they would have been willing to give up
the A bomb to America, because they had something that
made atomic bombs look like matchsticks by comparison.

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
And that's the same exact thing that you'll see some
of these Black Project engineers say all the time. They'll
say zero point energy makes nuclear weapons look like firecrackers. Right,
So they're saying the same thing about UFO zero point
energy technology that we're saying about fusion bombs. You just
had something that really spooked to me. By the way,

(01:05:31):
you mentioned the Carlisle Group, and the Carlisle Group was
actually part of a private consortium of equity firms that
acquired Freescale Semiconductors in two thousand and six for seventeen
point six billion dollars. Twenty engineers from that company were
on the plane Malaysian Airlines Flight three seven zero that
disappeared without a trace. That there's two videos of the

(01:05:51):
plane being zapped by I can only describe plasma orbs,
which I think is an anutronic fusion bomb that they
used on the plane. So if that that is true,
then you could almost draw a direct connection between the
people that have figured out fusion and covered it up
since nineteen fifty three and twenty fourteen, when a plane

(01:06:13):
full of engineers flying to China happens to just disappear
off the face of the earth and no one seems
to know what happened to it anymore. Let me address
a couple of things that you just mentioned, though, because
you brought some really great points here, and we're starting
now to get into how did the United States incorporate
the Nazi technology, the Nazi intelligence and engineers and information

(01:06:37):
from them. Joseph P. Ferrell I actually was able to
finally communicate with him a little bit on email. Brilliant guy.
He mentions Ronald Richter and the idea of clean fusion
in some of his interviews. Before I talk about that, though,
I want to say that, going back to the UFO
topic excuse me, related to like the flying saucer that

(01:06:58):
you just mentioned. Isn't it kind of interesting how UFOs
have seemingly changed shape in the last thirty years. Like
in the nineties, when I was younger, it was all
about flying saucers. That's what everybody was seeing, that's what
everybody was reporting, And that seems to go back to
the deglock et cetera. But now I don't nobody really
talks about flying saucers anymore. Now it's all about plasma

(01:07:19):
ORBS energy ORBS, et cetera. So are the aliens getting
smarter and advancing while they're watching us? Or is it
really just us getting better and getting more advanced? And
now we're going from rudimentary gravity manipulation technology to really
getting more advanced with microengineering, microelectronics, fabrication of microchips, things

(01:07:40):
like that, to the point now where we can make
some pretty scarily advanced stuff. That's just the thought. But
I want to mention right now the clean fusion because
this is like the second half.

Speaker 3 (01:07:50):
Real Q, really quick, just real quick.

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
On that note, I saw your interview with Salvator Paies,
the recent one, which was fantastic.

Speaker 3 (01:07:59):
I love that guy's attitude.

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
He mentioned at one point, and you are surprised about
biological organic components of computational systems, and you know there
there recently have been stories about growing let's say, uh,
neuronal organisms like you know, brain and a Petri dish

(01:08:24):
kind of stuff, like growing aspects or elements of a
human brain and connecting it to microchips and developing a
hybrid you know, cybernetic.

Speaker 3 (01:08:35):
Computational system which.

Speaker 2 (01:08:37):
Would incorporate the quantum computational properties of the human brain
together with the binary computational properties of like microchip you
know based system.

Speaker 1 (01:08:50):
The brain chips are coming, and so is the like
biological engineering. That's probably why we've banned cloning and why
we've tribably put this huge stigma on like the nots
trying to develop the perfect soul, the super soldier, because
that's where this is all going. I mean, this is
all headed in a direction where we are going to
integrate with advanced the machine intelligence, and there are gonna

(01:09:12):
be people that are being born where you're gonna have
a question of, hey, do you want to have a
brain chimp and planted in you when you're a baby,
or are you gonna opt out of the of this?
And if you're opted in now you have a permanent
connection to everybody else. You have an Internet in your
mind that you can just you know, communicate with anybody
you want all the time. I think that's totally wild.
But going back to the main topic here, the clean fusion.

(01:09:34):
To me, that's the big secret. And so when you
mentioned that oh Richter was promising clean fusion for the world,
we had dirty fusion. So let me explain what this
is for the audience, just in case they're not familiar.
The thing that releases the radiation and the heat in
the fusion bomb is the neutrons. The neutrons get released,

(01:09:56):
and the neutrons are the heat. Those are the radiation.
So when they talk about a clean fusion bomb, which
you hear this referenced all the time, clean fusion, clean
fusion bomb. But people go, what does that mean? That
means there's no neutrons or minimum neutrons that are being
released in the interaction. Turns out this is a real thing.
It's called a neutronic fusion. That's the name for it.

(01:10:19):
There are several companies that are actually doing this right now,
including Trialpha Energy and Helium Fusion. Helium Fusion was initially
funded by the Department of Energy. They got Mythral Capital,
Peter Thiel's company that invested in them, and now Sam
Altman is the chairman of Helium Fusion as well. And

(01:10:40):
the way that it works is it comes down to
the fuel source that you use. So it was actually
Joseph P. Farrell clip that I was watching where I
think he says it was Richter that I believe was
working on the bomb, working on the hydrogen bomb, and
he goes or he may have been talking about the
Castle Bravotes. I can't remember the exact contact, but he says,

(01:11:00):
I added a little bit of boron to my lithium
plasma mix. Add a little boron to it, and that's
how I was able to get this massive reaction. I
think he was talking about the Castle Bravo detonation. I
could be wrong on that.

Speaker 3 (01:11:14):
So because it had a much higher than they anticipated.

Speaker 1 (01:11:18):
Did They anticipated six megatons I believe, but it was
like fifteen instead, And so he gets asked, what was
the thing that you did? Oh, I added a little
bit of boron. So here you go. There are three
a neutronic fusion fuels, just three. I found out about
them because I was taking a look at a two
thousand and five JANF presentation which is like Joint NASA,

(01:11:40):
Air Force, Navy, et cetera. And they're talking about fusion
the whole PowerPoint and it goes next generation fusion fuels.
Number one helium three. That stuck out to me because
I went, wait, isn't everybody talking about mining helium three
on the moon? Like why do I didn't know what
we need helium three four? But I'm went, oh, if
helium three can be used as a new chronic fusion
fuel clean energy, and then what are the other two?

(01:12:04):
One of them wasn't even listed, but the other one
was boron eleven proton boron eleven fusion is a neutronic
turns out, this is the goal that helium fusion is
aiming for. Is they're trying to aim for boron eleven fusion. Now,
the downside, people say is that it takes a much
higher temperature to achieve this level of fusion than conventional

(01:12:29):
neutronic fusion. And so they say, oh, well, if we
can't do neutronic fusion, then why would we even bother
with something that's even more difficult with the temperature requirement,
energy requirements even higher than that. The third fuel, which
is harder to find out about, is lithium six lithium seven.
Turns out, lithium six and lithium seven are used in

(01:12:49):
thermonuclear weapons, and so it's very controlled in terms of
who potentially has access to it. I did do a
little bit of research and found out that the public
sentiment is that that lithium won't work for a neutronic
fusion due to the reaction how much energy is being
released from it. I'm a little skeptical of those claims,
just because we're literally using it in thermonuclear weapons. So

(01:13:10):
maybe it's just something you mix in there. I'm not sure.
So how does this become clean energy? How does this
become unlimited energy? Well, the people that realize that we
people realize that we potentially don't need to hit ignition
to get over unity from these devices. So helium fusion
has come out and said, well, we're not even aiming

(01:13:30):
for ignition, that we can actually create our electrical system
that harnesses this energy by recuperating the input energy, just
like with the electric car, how the electric car breaks
and recuperates the energy. They so that we can actually
get the input energy down so low that we can
achieve excess output energy from creating these plasma reactions at

(01:13:54):
a lower temperature than ignition. And an ignition we would say,
because I've talked to some prominent people, I'm not going
to say exactly who, but they always ask me, why
is a neutronic fusion gonna be the answer compared to
these other fusion companies, And I tell them one, it's
direct energy conversion. So you say, okay, what does a

(01:14:16):
clean h bomb look like? What does that actually look like? Well,
we just said that a clean bomb has no neutrons
or minimum neutros, So that means there'll be no heat
and no radiation, So what does that actually look That
just means that what you're releasing is pure energy, pure electricity,
if you want to think of it like that. And
so I say it, of course, if I'm aiming for fusion,

(01:14:37):
shouldn't I be aiming for the thing that produces direct electricity?
Whereas normal nuclear reactors right now basically just heat up water,
boil it it creates steam and then we spin a
turbine with the steam. If you believe David Kirkley, who's
the CEO of helium Fusion, and I do, then the

(01:14:57):
difference in efficiency is about thirty percent of fish agency
for an a neutronic or a neutronic fusion reaction, and
an anutronic reaction is ninety percent or higher efficiency and
direct energy conversion to electricity. So it turns out a
neutronic fusion is the thing that we all thought about
when we were kids, how we thought nuclear power work.

(01:15:17):
That's actually how it really works. And then if we
don't need to hit ignition, this is the other big
critical thing. They say, well, the reason why we're not
aiming for this is because ignition level of temperature is
so high and we can't even figure that out. But
David Kirkley says, no, actually we can. Our optimal run
temperature is not even at ignition levels. Is that we're

(01:15:39):
not with ignition. What we're trying to is make a
little sun. We're trying to make a sun that self
perpetuates so that it sits there forever and it just
keeps going forever. With helium fusion, they're just doing short
bursts of plasma at each other, so they're not trying
to get this permanent sun to exist. And when they
do this, according to their math, they can achieve over

(01:16:01):
unity at temperatures that are ten times lower than ignition.
So this gets around all of the problems that people
have related to it. And so just to add on
and kind of close out this thought process is that
I could absolutely see a world where this gets figured
out in the fifties, in the sixties, and now we

(01:16:21):
have inertial confinement fusion, which is what confining the plasma
with magnetic fields is all about. We've got inertial confinement fusion.
But now we've got a major problem on our hands
here because now we have the answer to unlimited green
energy for the rest of all of civilization, for the
rest of all of civilization basically, And it's also tied

(01:16:42):
to extremely dangerous weapons, weapons that are beyond what we
think of as what we did with Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Weapons that can potentially manipulate space time itself and could
annihilate the whole planet, maybe the whole Solar system in
just the blink of an eye. So this is where

(01:17:04):
I want to say. One last thought is that three
of my favorite authors are Arthur C. Clark, Isaac Asimov,
and Robert Heinlend Heinland apparently, and all these guys they
pushed this idea of what did they call it, basically
hard sci fi, the idea that the science fiction they

(01:17:25):
would write would be based on real physics. And Heinland
believed that the only way that we wouldn't annihilate ourselves
with thermonuclear winter would be that if we created a
one world government. How interesting is that given the context
of the potential secrecy of these weapons, the collusion potentially

(01:17:45):
between the Nazis and the United States, and then the
massive implications of the weapons, which I think I first
heard you talk about on Danny Jones saying that we
can't give everybody a time machine because if these weapons
are able to manipulate space time, now you're giving people
a literal time machine. So now you've created pretty much

(01:18:06):
an ultimate weapon.

Speaker 2 (01:18:08):
Go ahead, So now I'm going to share something with
you that's even creepier, and that has to do with
the potential engineering, re engineering of space time metrics using
nuclear weapons. Yes, and again I would refer people to

(01:18:28):
my essay called nuking the matrix. And I'll tell you
why I called it that it may surprise many people
to discover that the first scientist, first serious person to
ever consider the possibility that we're living inside a computational matrix,

(01:18:49):
was the German computer scientist Conrad Zeusa. Conrad Zusa was
the Nazi Alan Turing, and Turing was racing against Zusa.
So Zusa actually was in the lead in computer development
of World War Two, working with much better, smaller transistors
than the ones that we had. The German subsidiary of

(01:19:11):
IBM was found to be about ten years ahead of
American technology when we went into Nazi Germany. So Conrad
Zusa is the Nazi Alan Turing.

Speaker 3 (01:19:21):
And guess what he figures out in the nineteen forties.

Speaker 2 (01:19:27):
He looks at all the anomalies on the quantum level,
like wave particle duality and quantum entanglement, and he says,
you know what this looks like to me? This looks
like some kind of a efficient computational process. It looks
to me like a computational system is trying to efficiently

(01:19:50):
process information. And that's why we have things like the
fact that a particle isn't rendered unless it's being observed.
Comes up with this on the nine teen forties. And
here's the more disturbing thing that he says. Based on
the model he develops, which he calls Rechinander realm calculating space.

(01:20:12):
In other words, space itself is a calculating medium, he says.

Speaker 3 (01:20:16):
You know, if this.

Speaker 2 (01:20:17):
Model is correct, the system generally can render local reality
very rapidly and consistently and in a stable manner. But
if it's locally disrupted by an extremely volatile, high entropy event,
you might.

Speaker 3 (01:20:36):
Start to see glitches in the matrix.

Speaker 2 (01:20:39):
They would be observable on the level of quantum experimentation,
like shooting photons and stuff, you'll start to get experimental
results that are off if there's a very high entropy
dynamic event taking place. And what did he consider the
best candidate for such an event in nuclear explosion.

Speaker 1 (01:20:58):
Oh, let me add on to that real quick, which
is so, when I investigated the people that developed the
H bomb and advanced the H bomb, John Knuckles Lowell Wood,
for example, they actually proposed paper in nineteen seventy four
to test general relativity using thermonuclear weapons. And what were

(01:21:23):
they implying? The exact same thing that you just said,
that thermonuclear weapons might be manipulating space time, they might
be producing gravitational ripples, gravitational waves. Why were they thinking
that in nineteen seventy four, Why were they publishing public
scientific papers about that. They had to have known that
that's exactly what was going on. And this is where

(01:21:44):
I say, oh, my goodness, it must the UFO topic
must be connected to nukes. And let me even take
it a step further, because now in retrospect, to me,
it's obvious. You go, wait a minute, how do they
say that we would manipulate space time? How would we
manipulate gravity? Well, we need a huge amount of mass,
they say. In order to make a wormhole, we need
the mass of Jupiter right here. If I had a

(01:22:06):
massive je if I had a Jupiter right here, then
space time would be getting bents all around Jupiter because
it's producing all this grap We all understand that. Take
it to the next level, Einstein said, E equals mc squared.
That means there's an exchange of energy and mass. That means,
when we talk about these calculations, we can interchange mass
and energy with one another. That means we don't just
need the mass of Jupiter. We can take the energy

(01:22:29):
mass of Jupiter and that will do the exact same thing. Now,
what were we doing with thermonuclear weapons, Well, we were
trying to make them very, very powerful. Remember we just
said about Castle Bravo. It was two and a half
times more powerful than what we expected. And then we
took it even further. Then John Knuckles in the sixties said,
you know what, I can make it even more efficient.

(01:22:52):
If I use geometry and get our waves to collapse
perfectly onto a point, I can amplify that even higher,
increase the gain, increase the amount of energy output relative
to the amount of energy input. So now you have
to start to wonder, Wait, how much did they really
amplify that energy, and especially if they did it anutronically,
which is three times more efficient than neutronic fusion bomb

(01:23:16):
might be last thought is this So now we've connected, Okay,
we can potentially get this huge amount of energy, which
is what we would need to manipulate space time. But
are there scientific papers that support it? Yeah? There is.
In fact, there's a really famous one by a guy
named Harold Pudoff where Timbershet of Congress held up his
scientific paper in twenty twenty three during the UFO hearing,

(01:23:38):
he said, here's a little light reading for you. What
is the name of that paper, Polarizable Vacuum Model Spacetime
metric Engineering by hal Putoff, And in that he says
that we can unify electromagnetism in general relativity. And this
basic idea is that electromagnetism will manipulate space time to
zero point energy to allow anti gravity manipulation as well

(01:24:03):
as potentially a wormhole in theory. So now we've got
all the basis to put it all together. Plus just
another little tidbit for you. I just watched a video
or hal Putoff is sitting next to Edward Teller at
dinner telling him his theories. And you're sitting here going,
wait a minute. People are saying, Edward Teller is like
the guy that knows all the secrets. Right. They had

(01:24:24):
probably a whole crisis of conscience when the guy who
died because we had to pass these secrets onto somebody else.
So why is hal Putoff now sitting in the meeting
with him? So this is where I think you can
pretty much draw a straight line between thermonuclear weapons directly
to space time manipulation and the UFO topic.

Speaker 2 (01:24:41):
Good, yes, and I can add a couple of elements
to that that even fill out the physics in a
more compelling way.

Speaker 3 (01:24:50):
You have to add the work that was done by.

Speaker 2 (01:24:56):
Ralph Landauer in the nineteen sixties, also a German, although
a Jewish German who was escaping the Nazis, and then
John Archibald Wheeler. And what took place between Ralph Landauer
and John Archibald Wheeler was the recognition that it's not
just energy and matter that are interconvertible, you know, ala Einstein.

(01:25:18):
They realized that there's a third term in this interconvertibility,
which is information. And this speaks to why you know, observation,
the the the the integral element of the observer in
the collapse of the wave function in quantum mechanics already
tells us that information processing, namely by an observer, is

(01:25:41):
integral to fundamental physics.

Speaker 3 (01:25:42):
And what.

Speaker 2 (01:25:45):
John Archibald Wheeler developed, building on Rolf Landauer, was the
idea that energy and matter are different states of information.

Speaker 3 (01:25:56):
Now, Conrad Zusa already realized this.

Speaker 2 (01:25:58):
The Nazi German computer scientists Conrad used in the nineteen
forties and what zeus say is saying is that when
a nuclear bomb goes off, the computational system can't catch
up with the disruption to the normal rendering algorithm, so

(01:26:20):
the mesh of the matrix is sheared locally. Now, if
Wheeler is right, and if what people want more detail,
I wrote about this in my book Satanion. If Wheeler
is more If Wheeler is right about this, then what
we call dark matter is actually an informational cloud. It's

(01:26:43):
a form of matter that's not electromagnetically detectable, but that
contains information and has gravitational effects, massive gravitational effects. Now,
if we're living in a computational similachrum and the space
the spatial matrix what Conrad Zusa called the Rechnander around
the calculating space gets torn locally around the nuclear explosion,

(01:27:08):
it could be that that opens up cracks through which
we have access to dark matter that is much more massive,
and that dark matter then could warp the space time
matrix locally in an even more significant way. In other words,
if our similarchrum is nested inside a larger quantum computational

(01:27:30):
system and it's being projected from outside, some kind of
from out of some kind of cloud informational processing medium
like dark matter. Cracks in the local space time mesh
could allow a denser, more gravitationally disruptive form of matter

(01:27:53):
to also further impact the.

Speaker 3 (01:27:57):
Space time.

Speaker 2 (01:28:01):
In the environs of a nuclear explosion, which brings me to.

Speaker 3 (01:28:05):
The other thing. Yes, it could be that nukes.

Speaker 2 (01:28:10):
Are surveiling nuclear power plants and surveiling nuclear stockpiles, and
there's a great deal of evidence for that that Robert Hastings,
you know, is laid.

Speaker 3 (01:28:17):
Out in his book on UFOs and nukes.

Speaker 2 (01:28:19):
But there's another possibility as well, and they're not mutually exclusive,
and that's that some of the UFOs that we see,
you know, Beatrice Villaroil's recent study of the Palomar plates
from the nineteen fifties seems to suggest that tens of
thousands of these things would show up, especially like within
hours of a nuclear explosion. And one possibility is that

(01:28:44):
they're coming from other dimensions. That when a nuke locally
shears the fabric of space time, cracks open that allow
access to other dimensions, and that you know, craft that
come from basically other simulacra are breaking through into ours.

(01:29:05):
That's also a possibility, and David Lynch played with that
in a very interesting way in the third season of
his Twin Peaks television series. It's basically built on this
idea that you know, beginning in nineteen forty five, when
we started setting off nukes, we sort of compromise the
space show temporal fabric in a way that allowed things
from other dimensions to get in to our world. So

(01:29:28):
that's another thing, you know, worth considering here.

Speaker 1 (01:29:31):
Yeah, so let me jump out. Yeah, because John Wheeler,
I mean, guy's a legend. Although he doesn't get probably
nearly enough credit, he was also one of the help
developers of the h bomb. Originally, he's the guy that
coined the term wormhole and black hole. Actually, so when
he's talking about these concepts, people should probably listen because
he's one of the people that was on the forefront
of these ideas back in the fifties and the sixties.

(01:29:54):
Out there, I think you conceptualize it very well. Personally,
I have a slightly different take on the dark energy.
I just think the dark energy dark matter is just
zero point energy. It's the latent energy of space time itself.
And yes, I do think we're absolutely making cracks in it,
we're bending it, we're manipulating that. I think this you

(01:30:14):
could think of as the zero point energy, as space
time itself, as the reason why there's distance between here
and I.

Speaker 3 (01:30:20):
Disagreeing with you at all. I'm not disagreeing with you
at all.

Speaker 2 (01:30:22):
No, No, I'm just saying that it's an informational medium.

Speaker 3 (01:30:27):
Zero an informational medium.

Speaker 1 (01:30:30):
And let me add to that. So, I'm not sure
if you know about Charles Chase, but he's a legendary
Lockheed Martin engineer. He was a leader of the Revolutionary
Technologies division of the Lockheed Martin skunk Works. And I
know Jesse Michael spoke to him because Jesse Michael said,
I spoke to the guy who is a leader of
the Revolutionary Technologies of it, and I'm going I know

(01:30:50):
who that guy is. That's Charles Chase. And Charles Chase
replied to one of my emails. These guys almost never
replied to my emails, by the way, and when hal
Pudaff responds, they not only got back like five word
answers from him, even though I wrote out like the
whole history of his research. But Charles Chase said something
really interesting about zero point energy. I actually asked him,

(01:31:11):
do you believe in the ether, which is, you know,
this idea of this extra dimension of energy, and he says,
I do think the idea of that ether is real.
And he says, I think that also it has a memory.
So this speaks directly to what you're saying about space
time being an informational medium. Is that what Charles Chase
is implying is that what we do is remembered in

(01:31:33):
space time. Space time is rendering kind of what is happening.
And this is also connected to coherence and decoherence with
you know, the double slit experiment and quantum mechanics. So
one more thing I want to say in quant mechanics
is that tunneling is directly.

Speaker 2 (01:31:46):
At Nikola Tesla believed that Nikola Tesla became friends with
Swami Vivekananda and they had long conversations about Sanskrit metaphysics together,
and Tesla came aloud around to believing that the ether
was an informational medium that stored.

Speaker 3 (01:32:05):
Memory, that was, it was a memory storage system.

Speaker 2 (01:32:10):
And he said, basically, the Hindus were kind of on
the right track when they called it the Akasha.

Speaker 3 (01:32:14):
The acoustic record of the cosmos.

Speaker 1 (01:32:17):
Okay, let me this is perfect. I had this up
on my screen right here. This is perfect. So I've
got this thing about Tesla, told Lord Kelvin at his
visit with the median German freesser Hermann von Helmholtz. Helmholtz
is pretty famous physicists as well, and they talked about
the idea of ether and vortex rings. He says in
the question what passes on the impulse? Kelvin came to

(01:32:38):
the conclusion are they are vortices in the ether. With
that he had found an answer and experience with his students,
he built boxes with which he could produce smoke rings
to be able to study and demonstrate and experiments the
special properties of ring like vortices and their flow. Technical analogy.

(01:32:59):
So what these guys believed, these basically pioneers of electromagnetism.
They believe we were in a medium and they believe
vortex motions somehow interacted with that medium. I think that
what we found now recently, especially as if you guys
look up like optical traps, we're using light to measure vortices,

(01:33:20):
and I think that that's what we're essentially doing. But
with much more advanced technology and experimentation nowadays compared to
what we did in the past. And I think what
we're realizing is, yes, there really is a medium, and
we know it for a fact. The question is how
do we interact with it in a meaningful way. Salvator
Paist would say that, and I don't want to be
speaking for him, but I believe he would say that

(01:33:42):
we need to break make our system go far from equilibrium.
And also I think just from in general my research,
that you only begin to see some of these effects
at very high energy levels, which also imply that we
need this huge energy level to break through that medium.
You get close enough to that threshold, then you start

(01:34:03):
to see those effects, but before that you don't really
see them. And this is the reason why when people
are doing small scale experiments for anti gravitational technologies, they
don't get major effects. This is why, like Eugene Popklanov,
when he talks about spinning superconductors to produce these thrust
why it's so easy to debunk it because the measurements
are so tiny and the margin of air is so

(01:34:24):
high that people can say, oh, well, it's just within
the margin of air. You didn't really prove that the
thing is real. But this is why high energy physics
is so important, because the people that are doing the
highest energy physics, they're going to be the ones that
are going to see this because you've got to get
up to this threshold. First, do you have any comments
on that? And then I have a couple other things ahead.

Speaker 3 (01:34:46):
Yes, so no, I agree with all of that.

Speaker 2 (01:34:53):
I agree with the brunt of it, but I would
like to add this that you know, when you think
about aneutronic fusion, in other words, clean thermonuclear detonations, you
also have to realize that the main reason we haven't
had a nuclear war is because of the danger of fallout, right,

(01:35:15):
the danger of radioactive contamination of the areas where detonations
take place, and then fallout patterns that, because of the
nature of weather systems, will deposit the radiation over hundreds
of miles across oceans in some cases. I mean, look
what happened with Fukushima. I mean cattle in Washington State
and Oregon were radiated. So the reason we haven't had

(01:35:38):
a nuclear war is mainly because of the radiation that
comes from the fusion, sorry, the fission trigger, the neutronic
fission trigger in a fusion bomb. That's why nuclear weapons
were never used on a large scale. Now, if it
were known that it was possible, and of course this

(01:35:59):
is why the Nazis interested in this in the first place, Right,
I mean, the best nuke is a nuke you can
set off in a target area and then your soldiers
can move in immediately without fear of radiation. Right, So,
if it were known that you could use nuclear weapons
on a large scale without any danger of radioactive contamination,

(01:36:21):
nuclear war would be a lot more likely. Now, consider
what we were saying about Conrad Zeus's observations, or rather
Congrad Zeus's speculation about how the extremely high entropy dynamic
energetic event of a nuclear detonation could shear or compromise

(01:36:42):
the rendering of local space time. What would be the
effects of hundreds of a neutronic thermonuclear weapons going off
simultaneously on the planet. Could it be that at that point,
like you see in the movie The Thirteenth Floor, where

(01:37:02):
you know, the guy sees the mesh of the matrix,
He drives to the edge of fake Los Angeles and
there the road ends and he sees the mesh of
the matrix. Could it be that if we had a
global nuclear war from a nuclear war but using a
neutronic fusion devices, it would so thoroughly fuck up the

(01:37:23):
spatiotemporal matrix that we would basically see the mesh of
the computational system that we're inside of. And maybe that's
why the entities on the other side of the UFO
phenomenon are obsessed with making sure that we don't set
off nuclear weapons on a large scale, because it might
show us something about the nature of the world that

(01:37:45):
we're living in that they don't want us seeing.

Speaker 1 (01:37:55):
Yeah. Sorry, So I think that I want to address
a few of those points, and I do want to
talk about this idea of breaking the matrix, but a
couple other points on the science of it real quick.
On an internal nuclear weaponson with throughout there is tunneling.
Quantum tunneling is used in fusion. In fact, that's how
we break the Coulon barrier. So if we have two
ions that are positively charged, two positively charged things should

(01:38:18):
repel each other. So when we get fusion happening, the
idea is that we're creating so much pressure and heat
that we're forcing these things together to get over that
Coulon barrier. Now, if you research cold fusion and some
theories around cold fusion, you'll find there's a resonance model
of it that how are we able to get fusion
to happen at these low temperatures that don't require that?

(01:38:40):
And they say, oh, well, it's resonance that will allow
that to happen at certain resonant frequencies. Just like with
the diagloc we were talking about pulse frequencies, you have
your cross section of fusion goes way up, goes way
up weirdly at certain frequencies. That's what happens. And the
idea is like, imagine you're like vibrating your hands back
for at some point like you're gonna be like over
the top of one another. And this is a quantum

(01:39:01):
mechanical effect that we see where we can have two
things at the same point, where normally we can't have that.
Every things that are fermions can't generally be at the
same position. But according to general relativit and quantum mechanics,
that becomes possible. Now. So the other thing I want
to point out is computers. You mentioned computers, and this
idea that nukes are you know, almost you could imagine

(01:39:22):
the patterns as being a computational pattern. Well, it turns
out we were literally building computers for thermonuclear weapons. One
of the big things that Knuckles was working on when
he was doing building his H bombs, his clean H bombs,
was he was doing the computations. They were putting it,
plugging in old IBM cards to do the computers. So

(01:39:42):
you can actually draw a direct line between computer advancement
and thermonuclear weapons. Then John Kramer, he's an experimental nuclear
physicist out of a University of Washington, he said he
got asked, and it was one of my favorite clips
where he gets asked, what do they use quantum computer for?
Nobody really knows what they're practically using quantum computers for,

(01:40:04):
and he goes, oh, use it for nuclear weapons calculations.
The computer can do the calculations, these complex integrals just
like that, where it's very extremely difficult, time intensive for
a human being to try to do those things. I'm
just sitting here going, I mean, you you just told
me the secret here, which is that, like we developed
computers for nuclear weapons and then we needed quantum computers

(01:40:24):
that were even more powerful to be able to do
these complex integrals and these fusion reactions with quantum tunneling
and stuff happening, and we needed to be able to
react in real time too, as our plasma is like,
you know, interacting what have you? Is that That's I
think where AI and quantum computers come from is probably
that direct technology. And so absolutely I could see a

(01:40:45):
situation where we're afraid for multiple reasons. This is where
I want to start to move to the geopolitics side
of this, which is what are the implications if we're right,
this hypothesis is true that thermonuclear weapons are able to
manipulate space time. Now we're talking about time travel and
a lot of people ask me, what is the impact
on the zero point energy on space time itself? If

(01:41:07):
we're doing this, will the zero point energy just kind
of come in and fill the gaps? And if so,
is there a limit to that? Are we using up
all of the space time when we're you know, either
pulling energy from it or doing these detonations. Is it
impacting other realities? Are there other realities? And is there
a multiverse? And then the bigger thing and to me

(01:41:27):
that I think that honestly, seeing the matrix is the
least the thing I'm least afraid of. The thing I'm
more afraid of is someone's gonna mess up the time
stream and we're gonna get caught in some kind of
time loop. Hell, maybe we are. Maybe our reality is
a time loop where somebody did something like that. So
those are just some of my thoughts.

Speaker 3 (01:41:42):
What do you think, Oh, I agree with all of it.

Speaker 2 (01:41:46):
I think that our timeline has been broken and we're
already in some fucked up time loop or buros serpent
eating its own tail kind of thing that you see
like in the German TV series Dark. And then about
us messing up other realities with nuclear weapons detonations. You know,
I have often accused the Nordics who appear to contact

(01:42:10):
these in the nineteen fifties of being extremely duplicitous, deceptive individuals. However,
I do have to note that one of the things
that they did say to multiple contact these was you've
got to stop these nuclear detonations because they're messing with
the world that we come from in ways that you
don't understand.

Speaker 3 (01:42:31):
So who knows me.

Speaker 1 (01:42:34):
There's a theory called the twin paradox or twin universe
theory too, which is the idea of like there's always
duality in physics, So you have positive charge, you have
minus charge, and we see that everywhere in physics, So
why wouldn't there be like an alternate flip side of
our reality like in the Stranger Things, you know, what
are they called the underworld or whatever they call it,

(01:42:55):
So you could see, like, what if this situation is
like we're every what if all the energy we barre
is an energy from another universe and with the energy
they borrows energy from our universe, And so you could
see a situation where like we do something like that,
and yes, maybe we're either opening a hole to that
universe or we're just taking from that universe. Those are
just some thoughts that I personally had when I thought
about this idea of like why the UFOs would show

(01:43:18):
up if they do come from another dimension. But my
personal opinion, and this is the thing where we can't
know the truth until we like experiment it, of course obviously,
but my opinion is that there isn't another Bizarro dimension,
but there is another dimension that's out there, and the
dimension is how we can basically take a shortcut through
our perceivable reality, like I use that extra dimension to

(01:43:41):
hop to Mars and now I'm just on Mars instantly,
as opposed to you know, six months or three months later,
however it gets over there. But even in the scenario
like that, you could still say that the Aliens are
extra dimensional if they're coming from you know, you know,
the Andromeda Galaxy, which would be completely impracticle from a
distance perspective for us to get to without some sort

(01:44:03):
of extra dimensional space hop if you want to think
of it like that, a couple last.

Speaker 2 (01:44:09):
Topics, A bit of a word game becomes a bit
of a word game at that point, because yes, I mean,
if they're using extra dimensions to get here from Mars
or from Andromeda or wherever, then technically speaking it's extra
dimensional because they're using an extra dimension to get here,
just like you know, if there are humans on Mars,

(01:44:30):
and let's say there were humans on Mars, you know,
one hundred million years ago the way that you know,
John Brandenburg thinks there's evidence for that, and you know,
the the Viking Probe brought back these photos of ruins
that were subsequently used as remote viewing targets that showed
you know multiple remote viewing teams that there were humans
living on Mars one hundred million years ago.

Speaker 3 (01:44:50):
Now, if those humans use.

Speaker 2 (01:44:53):
You know, extra dimensional jump gates to get to places
on Earth, then they're both extraterrestrial because they're coming from
Mars technically even though they're human, and they're extra dimensional
because they're using another dimension to get here. Right, So
it becomes a bit of a word game at that point.
You know, the important thing is that they're human. They're human,

(01:45:14):
They may be from another planet, therefore extraterrestrial. They may
be using hyperdimensional technology to get here without actually traversing space,
which means they're extra dimensional. But bottom line, if it
walks like a human, it talks like a human, and
quacks like a human, it's a human, okay. And I
think that's one of the most egregious UH deceptions and

(01:45:39):
misdirections that's going on in the current disclosure discourse is
the degree to which these gatekeepers of disclosure want us
not to think about how many humans appear to be
involved with UFOs coming out of UFOs, taking people, you know,
being seen on UFOs and John Ramirez to go back

(01:46:00):
to him for a moment. One of the things that
he did tell me. You know, he said he read
my book Closer Encounters, and he said there were other
people who were reading my book Closer Encounters. And he's like, listen,
we don't understand how you got like eighty percent of
this right. I mean eighty percent of what you have
in this book. And he wouldn't tell me what twenty
percent I got wrong, But eighty percent of what you
have in this book lines up with what the CIA
is concluded. And he said, in particular, what the whistle

(01:46:22):
so called whistleblowers who aren't whistleblowers because they go through
adopts or clearance process, which means they're actually spokesman in
any case. What the two things they're never allowed to
talk about are the connection to the Nazis and Atlantis planteans.

Speaker 3 (01:46:40):
Meaning the human dimension of the UFO phenomenon. Very interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:46:45):
That is really interesting because that's the conclusion I've reached,
is that it's the whole disclosure movement is basically to
give plausible deniability for the people that are actually using
this technology in a legal way. I think other people
that would agree, are, you know, Stephen Greer for sure,
even though he you know, he believes that the ets
and stuff are there, but he also thinks that we're

(01:47:07):
using illegally. Timothy Aberino who's shared his story of Peru
where the face peelers or people being attacked, you know,
So there's a lot of people out there that I
think they're on the other side of it, that are
looking at and going even if it does come from
some other origin, non human intelligence origin, we at this
point it's pretty apparent that the evidence is that we're

(01:47:28):
using it in corrupt ways, ways that are at minimum
morally ambiguous, possibly just straight up illegal ways in which
the public would never be able to wrap their brain
around most likely. And that's what I want to get
into in the next part here is that right before
I do that is I want to talk about the
geopolitical implications. And the way I want to segue into
this is that I read the nuclear critical nuclear classification codes.

(01:47:51):
I didn't know anything about it. I figured, hey, if
this is nuclear weapons, maybe there's some clues in how
we classify this stuff. First thing I find out is
we called sigmas, So there's sigma classifications for different let's
say properties of thermonuclear weapons, not always defined based on
property In fact, they read Obama redid them all in
twenty eleven, and so now they're super vague. Now it's

(01:48:14):
just like anything related to the operation and knowledge of thermonuclears.
But before they were actually specific. Sigma number one, very
first sigma is magneto hydrodynamics control of plasma with electromagnetic fields.
That's the very first sigma categorization. So they use these
categorizations like we do a test and it'll say Sigma one,

(01:48:38):
and that's how they can just black it out, so
that only like the president and people with their super
severe Yeah. So there you have it, and you want
to know the other one. I read through them the
two that I thought were the most interesting. Number one
magnetohydrodynamics that connects plasma directly to thermonuclear weapons, which isn't
that surprising, But if we think about the plasma non
fishion triggers for clean fusion bombs, there you go. The

(01:49:01):
other one, Sigma eleven, which is just straight up inertial
confinement fusion, and I go, wow, okay, because there you go,
there's your connection to Richter and his clean fusion. And
it turns out who are the pioneers of inertial confinement fusion. Well,
Friibert Winterberg, the guy that I mentioned who was Heisenberg,

(01:49:21):
was his mentor on his textbook. On the cover of
his textbook says, inertial confinement fusion is the secret to
unlimited green energy for humanity, right on the front of
the cover of the textbook. Just is It're right there?
And who are the other pioneers? Well, John Knuckles turns
out the literal guy that was developing the clean fusion

(01:49:44):
bomb is the guy that started the National Ignition Facility,
the NIF, which we've finally just achieved in twenty twenty two.
They achieved coefficient and performance or a Q factor they
call it now greater than one, which means more energy out.
It was for a very brief period time, but it
shows the idea that it's possible. So this takes me
to the next part where it starts talk about the

(01:50:05):
geopolitical implications. And I want to segue into this through
something called the Jasons, because I want to get your
opinion on the Jason Group. This is idea, this Jason group,
and it's real, one hundred percent real. They have the
ideas that they are essentially professors that are that are
knowledgeable about black projects if they're not included in the
black projects. And they meet with the CIA every summer

(01:50:28):
and they have a list of topics that they're going
to talk about, and the idea is that they determine
where the line is between the public knowledge of the
physics and national security essentially. And I can give two
examples real quick of when there were tribunals done by
the Jayson Group. One was actually Lowell Lowell Wood himself,

(01:50:50):
John Knuckles's colleague. He was written up by the Jasons
in like the seventies, maybe it was the eighties, but
I think the seventies because apparently he shared with the
Chinese some equations, some probably like you know, geometric equation
type stuff that we use to make their a nuclear weapons.
So they wrote him up and it diminished his reputation significantly.

(01:51:12):
Turns out he got off on kind of a technicality
where somebody was able to find a public scientific paper
that talked about those equations at least, so the story goes,
But this damaged his reputation and he ended up not
getting certain positions later on. So this is how they
damage your careers. This is how they keep it secret.
They make sure that everybody where the engineers stay in line.
And then one other example, which is a really interesting one.

(01:51:33):
A lot more recently in the two thousands, a guy
named Robert M. L. Baker, also known as Bob Baker.
He had an extensive about twenty or more papers on
high frequency gravitational waves. Laboratory produced gravitational waves, including communications, telescopes,
literally anything you could a kind of a meagre propulsion

(01:51:54):
related to them. His friend Gary Stevenson, who's a Boeing,
I'm gonna call him up lack project engineer. I don't
know that for a fact, but let's just say I'm
pretty confident. Gary Stevenson tells this story to Tim Ventura
and he says, Robert M. L. Baker was actually written
up by the Jasons by a guy named Ron Pandolfi
of the CIA. They put it on the agenda one

(01:52:14):
summer and Gary Stevenson goes with Robert M. L. Baker two.
I think it was San Diego where the tribunal was
being held, basically with the agenda, and they determine whether
or not Robert M. L. Baker shared too much information
with China. China once again about gravitational waves, and he
also got a slap on the wrist where they argued.

(01:52:35):
Apparently it was argued that the Gershenstein effect or reverse
gershion Stein effect was not powerful enough to produce significant
gravitational waves, therefore what he shared with China wasn't a
matter of national security. Blah blah blah. So those are
just a couple of examples. How in my mind, they've
basically been able to control academia as well as these

(01:52:58):
nuclear engineers and scientists working on black projects so that
it doesn't leak out because everybody's always I would tell
me out there, if this was real, people would know
about it would be leaking out. But they built this
culture of secrecy around the Manhattan Project that keeps it
secret from even America, even public. So what do you
have any thoughts on the Jason situation and know any

(01:53:19):
information about that?

Speaker 2 (01:53:22):
Yeah, well, I mean I'm named after the same myth,
you know. They're named after Jason and the Argonauts and
the Quest for the Golden Fleece, which is a rather
romantic iconography, you know for such an.

Speaker 3 (01:53:37):
Organization that they're really like they're in search of the
Golden Fleece.

Speaker 2 (01:53:41):
And they're going to go to this alien land and
fight monsters on the way to bringing back the Golden Fleece. Right,
And of course, remember Jason was involved with the sorceress Medea,
with whom he had children, and then she goes crazy
and kills his children. So that's a hell of a
myth to base the name of an organization on, you know,
the Jasons. Now, there's been some speculation that the term

(01:54:05):
MJ twelve refers to the twelve inner most high level
members of the Jasons, that it's you know, Jason one
through twelve, member of Jason twelve. I asked John Ramirez
about that, among other things, and he said that that's
not the case. I don't know whether he knows that
for a fact, that you know, this group, which has

(01:54:27):
also sometimes been called Majestic or Majestic twelve, is a
different group from the Jason's But some people have said
it's the same thing, and the first twelve Jasons are
the MJ twelve, which would then mean that they were,
at least in the time of Eisenhower and probably Kennedy,
the control group for you know, UFO Tech in the

(01:54:48):
United States. So that's what I would say about them.

Speaker 3 (01:54:55):
But you know you're mentioning China is really also relevant
to the question of the Jasons.

Speaker 2 (01:55:02):
And the way that brings me back to something we
said at the outset of the conversation about Trump's framing
of these weapons systems as our technology that's unrivaled in
the world. If you ever have the chance to speak
with John Ramirez, one thing you might ask him about,

(01:55:24):
which I'm not going to get into here, is the
level of technology transferred to the People's Republic of China.

Speaker 3 (01:55:31):
I'm not going to say anything else about that, but.

Speaker 2 (01:55:35):
What I will say is that if we have a
group of basically like wizards in the various scientific disciplines
and domains of technological development, who are ultimately responsible for
perpetuating the hegemony of the United States and you know,
guaranteeing our national security, why is it that we've allowed

(01:56:00):
the Chinese and the Russians in other countries to catch
up with this technology over the last seventy years When
the paper trail suggests that by nineteen fifty one, working
with our dear incorporated Nazi allies, we had this aneutronic
fusion technology already. What explains this geopolitical strategy where we

(01:56:25):
gave our rivals seventy years to try to catch up
to the point where now we've got Chinese drones over
in New Jersey and lordoswhere else that appear to be
demonstrating some level of this electrogravitics technology.

Speaker 3 (01:56:37):
Right, So that bothers me.

Speaker 1 (01:56:40):
What's your take on that question. I'm actually wondering that myself.

Speaker 2 (01:56:43):
Go ahead, I think here's where we need to look
at nine to eleven for example. And here I think
Joseph Farrell's got it absolutely right that nine Okay, Look,
we brought in and when I say we brought in,
what I mean is that there were various vested interests

(01:57:04):
in the United States, corporate elites, people controlling major industries
and elements of the government that were already beholding to
those corporate industrialists Rockefellers, Carlisles, Astors, Carnegie, the Bush family
who to begin and Morgan, oh JP Morgan who in

(01:57:25):
the first place, and the Dulles brothers who were in
business with Morgan and with the Rockefellers, and who all
funded the rise of the Nazis, the rise of the
Nazis and of Mussolini.

Speaker 3 (01:57:36):
That's the we here Okay, So.

Speaker 2 (01:57:38):
The people who brought the Nazis home in Operation paper Clip,
which was kind of a homecoming are the people who
created fascism in Europe to begin with, all right, now,
they also appeared to be the people who fielded the
operation on nine to eleven.

Speaker 3 (01:57:55):
They had enough.

Speaker 2 (01:57:56):
Access to various les levels of security and operational capability
in this country to be able to carry out that
operation and to confuse the normal security apparatus.

Speaker 3 (01:58:10):
Of the United States on that day, to.

Speaker 2 (01:58:12):
Confuse NORAD, to confuse the military, you know, with various
exercises and so forth, and to know, for example, that
the Twin Towers would come down the way that they did.
Because you know what a lot of people don't know
is that the largest realtor in the Twin Towers was
the National Security Agency and that the most important NSA

(01:58:35):
facility outside of Fort Meade was in the World Trade Center,
where the NSA was monitoring basically all the information from
Wall Street, all signals, intelligence of financial transactions from Wall
Street were being monitored by the NSA from the World
Trade Center. So that was an incredibly sensitive intelligence facility

(01:58:59):
which at this was wired from the day the building
was built.

Speaker 3 (01:59:06):
Those poor people.

Speaker 2 (01:59:07):
And you know, I'm in a native New Yorker, and
there were stories all the time I was growing up
in New York. People used to call the World Trade
Center those tombs. Those tombs because it was rumored that
the buildings were wired from the time they were built,
so that in case they ever lost control of the

(01:59:28):
World Trade Center to a terrorist, to a natural disaster,
who knows whatever, and that data was potentially going to
be compromised, they were gonna pull the building.

Speaker 3 (01:59:37):
They were gonna bring it down to control demolition. Okay,
So whoever carried out that operation on eleven knew that too.
They knew that too.

Speaker 2 (01:59:45):
Anyway, one thing that nine to eleven shows you is
that there is a substratum of the American deep state
which has so thoroughly differentiated itself from the civilian government
of the United States and from mainstream American culture, or

(02:00:06):
the lack thereof whatever our culture has become, that it
attacked the United States on nine to eleven. See and
what's nine to eleven two thousand and one, It marks
one decade since the collapse of the Soviet Union, who was.

Speaker 3 (02:00:23):
The arch rival of the Nazis.

Speaker 2 (02:00:25):
The Soviet Union, so a bunch of Nazis were brought
home to the people who financed.

Speaker 3 (02:00:31):
Them in the first place.

Speaker 2 (02:00:32):
They were used for like fifty years to collapse communism
and successfully defeat the Soviet Union. And then round about
two thousand and one these people declared some kind of
a divorce from the US government in the attack of
nine to eleven. And so again, this problematizes President Trump's
statement that we have technology that nobody else has. Well, no,

(02:00:57):
they have technology that nobody else has, and whether we
can get control of that technology back is very much
an open question. And you have to ask yourself again,
why did they allow the rivals of the United States
to start to develop the same kind of technology? Are

(02:01:18):
they intending to oversee the destruction of what we consider
to be the United States or the American Republic in
a war with these rivals, and only over the ashes
and rubble of that confrontation emerges some kind of a
new imperium?

Speaker 3 (02:01:38):
Is that the plan here that concerns me gravely?

Speaker 1 (02:01:42):
Yeah, that's pretty much a conclusion that I was thinking
you were making, too, which is that it goes back
to the one World government. I guess I'll call it
a conspiracy theory. But I happen to think that's probably
where this goes to because I've constantly wondered, if we've
had this figured out since the sixties, potentially unlimited energy,
why are we letting China and Russia catch up? Now?

(02:02:04):
We're not letting Iran do it. We just bombed Iran,
we just destroy We let the Masad assassinate their nuclear scientists,
we bomb their facilities, so we didn't let them do it.
And did you notice that China and Russia did literally nothing.
We sent bombers over there, blew them up, flew back,
and Russian China said nothing in response, even though the
Iran's ally. It feels to me like there's some handshake

(02:02:28):
agreements behind the scenes, or there's a couple different angles
to it. One could be that we all know that
with this technology exists, and we're just not gonna let
the primitive countries of the world ever have it, and
it's just like you're either in the club and we're
just kind of pretending to be adversarial when we're not.
The other angle of it is, well, the corporation aspect
of it. The corporations are really the ones that own it.

(02:02:50):
The defense contractors have gotten kind of out of control.
And this is the part where I think I'm leaning
towards this, And what you're potentially saying is that these people,
these organizations that are you know, at this point transgenerational
corporate companies that have been around since the turn of
the century of the nineteen hundreds, are the ones that

(02:03:10):
really control the information, control the technology. And yes, there
are clearly ties to the government, like we can pull
the strings. And that's what makes me think that maybe
Trump in his administration, you know, we talked about how
him being elected kind of disrupted the Hillary Clinton plan.
Maybe he's actually starting to pull some of this, pull
this back a little bit. I mean, I pretty much

(02:03:31):
I hope that's what's going on. And that's the reason
why he's saying stuff like that, because I don't know
why else he would be dropping little hints like that
here there. But that's one of my thoughts. And then
the question from this is where is the line. But
my other problem is, well, if we have this super
advanced technology, then it's just a crime against humanity to
not be Why do we have so many poor people,

(02:03:53):
why do we have so many homeless people in America?
If we have unlimited green energy and we've had it
for six years. To me, that's the part where I
look at that. I go, they don't have the American
people's best interest at heart. Whoever has this technology, they
don't have it at that interest at heart. And so
that's why I agree with you in terms of, you know,

(02:04:14):
the people are hiding this that are nefarious, that you
can argue are evil hiding this technology. But then the
question is, well, what is the right thing to do?
So the flip side of that is I go back
to you actually when you talk to Danny Jones and said, well,
we can't give everybody a time machine. If these are
literally time machines. We've built these miniatureized clean fusion bombs

(02:04:35):
that can manipulate space time, we've made it that advanced.
Then this is where it gets dark for people out there.
And this is where people start to get really upset
with my political opinions because I've got black pilled when
I was researching this, and I'm going, we can't give
this to people, Like I'm even sitting here wondering like
why are we letting China and Russia get this? And
we shouldn't be letting them get this, we should be
letting anybody else get this. And as much as it

(02:04:58):
sucks to say, we can't let Iran have this, we
can't let any culture on this earth that would strap
a bomb to themselves and blow themselves up can never
have this technology. Ever, Like, that's probably a hard stance view.

Speaker 3 (02:05:13):
What do you think, Well, in the case of Iran,
what you really mean is the Islamic Republic. I mean,
the vast majority of Iranians are against this retarded theocratic
regime and actually, probably demographically, Iran is the most pro
American country on the face of the earth, much more
pro American than any of the European countries at this point.

(02:05:34):
The Iranian people love America. So, you know, if Iran
were governed by a regime that was representative of its people,
then that might be another question. But I think the
bigger problem is this that China and Russia are hierarchical,
quasi feudal control systems where their governments could out and say,

(02:06:01):
guess what, folks, we have this shit and we're using it,
you know, for the glory of the Chinese people or
for you know, the Russian Empire, and we're not going
to share it with you in the civilian sphere, and
people will just accept that because those are tyrannical regimes
and you can get away with that in China and Russia,
but you can't get away with that in America.

Speaker 2 (02:06:22):
So we're at a significant disadvantage there because of the
socio political culture and constitutional principles of this country. So
what would be required to mitigate that would be some
tremendous cultural revolution in this country, which you.

Speaker 3 (02:06:36):
Know, is very far fetched.

Speaker 2 (02:06:38):
Frankly, you know, the idea that you're going to take
a country where on the one hand, you have a
bunch of evangelical, medieval minded backwater people who you know,
are now increasingly framing UFOs exclusively in terms of the
angels and demons from the Bible. And on the other hand,

(02:07:01):
you have a bunch of you know, SJW. Libtar lefties
who want to basically burn down Western civilization because of
all of its supposed transgressions against colonized people. With this
kind of polarity that essentially sums up the political landscape
of America, I don't understand how these gatekeepers are supposed

(02:07:22):
to release this.

Speaker 3 (02:07:23):
Technology to the citizen. You see, we were left with it.

Speaker 2 (02:07:27):
And see that's where I fit into this conversation because
I'm not a ufologist. I'm a philosopher, and so what
I've been trying to come up with in you know,
the fifteen books I've written so far, is some kind
of a philosophical framework for not just a political revolution,
but a cultural revolution, a social and psychological reorientation of

(02:07:48):
our people and our civilization without which it's a pipe
dream to think that this is ever.

Speaker 3 (02:07:54):
Going to be public sector technology.

Speaker 1 (02:07:57):
That's a great point, and I think that's what the
the UFO people really want to have happened. But I
just don't think. I think it's a lot more challenging
than they ever imagined, which is they need we need
a psychological perspective shift, you know. And I think they think, oh, well,
we tell everybody that the aliens are real, all of
a sudden, everyone will just change and be like, oh,
we've got to be better now, because there we're not

(02:08:18):
we know our place in the universe now. And I
don't see that happening at all. And I think that
what the examples you gave are perfect examples of the
divide and why both sides are not ready for it
is that I don't hate how everybody's talking about, oh,
they're angels and their demons. Now you know, we've got
the evangelicals that are all about that, because now I

(02:08:39):
see that, Okay, we're gonna reveal these this nuclear weapon technology,
and they're gonna go, it's demonic. The Satan made these weapons,
and you know they're gonna take it to this extreme angle.
I already see it happening, right, And then the other side,
you've already.

Speaker 2 (02:08:56):
Keeps talking about how, oh where did nuclear weapons come from?

Speaker 3 (02:08:59):
You know where nuclear weapons came from.

Speaker 2 (02:09:01):
It must have been demons whispered nuclear weapons into the
years of our scientists like Jackass go study the history
of nuclear physics in Nazi Germany. That's where nuclear weapons
came from.

Speaker 3 (02:09:13):
The Nazis are demons.

Speaker 2 (02:09:14):
Our entire post war military industrial complex is based on them.
So we incorporated the demons thoroughly. If that's the case,
and we'd be nothing without them.

Speaker 1 (02:09:21):
That's the thing that you you nailed it, which is
if Tucker is right, then we are the demons. We
are this Satan is the one making the weapon. Werner
von Braun made. Nasts came over here from the Nazis, like, guys,
that's the thing that I and so I heard that too,
and I got really triggered kind of like you just
did right there as well. And I am I'm worried

(02:09:43):
about that narrative spreading. And then I guess on the
other side, I'm just worried that the the lib tarted,
you know, brainwash people that are out there that are
they don't even know what they're protesting, you know, they
have no I feel like they don't even have any
purpose anymore. They're just out there looking for a reason.
On the positive side, I could see this giving people

(02:10:04):
purpose is that if we if they were to admit
that we have this technology, people would go, oh wow,
star Trek, we could actually Star Trek is a real
thing that we could be trying to achieve. Now, I
could see it giving these people some level of hope.
But the flip side is these are the kinds of
people that won't believe anything unless the authority tells them.
And the problem is the authority is not the people

(02:10:24):
they believe. Now, they're only gonna believe it if like
Joe Biden's corpse comes out and says, you know, the
aliens are real and we've got this technology, they're never
gonna believe it if Trump says it, you know, so
we've got ourselves stuck in this situation where we This
is what blackpills me the most is I don't see
a path forward where we're gonna get to a point
where we can manage this as a civilization. And this

(02:10:47):
is the main reason why I wanted to talk to
you from a philosophical perspective about you know, is humanity
even ready for this technology? And when will we be?
I think the gatekeepers might be right. I think that
all the stuff we've talked about about the suppression since
the sixties, I think it might all be with good reason.
I think that people in the sixties, when they figured

(02:11:08):
this out, and maybe even before that, they met in
a smoky room right the MJ twelve or the Jay
Songs or whoever it was, and they decided this is
too dangerous, We're not ready for this, and they probably
built a plan, like probably Edward Teller was making plans
about what year is this going to be really okay?
When twenty fifty comes along, then we'll release this bit

(02:11:30):
of information about it. You know, I could totally see
a scenario where that plays out. And then so for me,
the scary part that is like, Okay, well, am I
even doing the right thing in revealing this? And I've
kind of come to the conclusion that we just like
I said, we have to teach people, We have to
demystify it. We can't. We can't pretend like we're gonna
be the ones to reveal disclosure. Instead, it has to

(02:11:52):
be a learning and awakening process. And I think that
that doesn't happen from us talking about demons, and it
doesn't happen about us talking about little green men from
other plants. I think it happens from us talking about
the science right, talking about the science and the physics
of it and the history of it. I think that's
what we'll bring it down to earth for people, and
that's where people will be able to absorb it. Because

(02:12:13):
here's where I think will happen if we let's just
say we get this disclosure about all this technology comes
out right away. I mean, just think about the impacts
of this. You're gonna have possibly wars are gonna break
out right over this technology. I think you'd agree on that.
You're gonna have economic collapse every power source now all
like what happens to the value of companies that are

(02:12:34):
using obsolete technology goes to zero overnight? And then uh,
I think the big thing is that people's minds are
gonna break. Like people's minds will actually break. And you've
already seen people's minds breaking over relatively trivial matters in politics.
If you were to tell them like, hey, yeah, we
actually like hit all this technology from you and sorry

(02:12:54):
about that, like we've kind of been lying without lying
to you directly, people are gonna act actually like you know,
spoil like uh, you know, warning the risk he or whatever.
But they're gonna hurt themselves, right, They're gonna like take
their own lives potentially, like a significant number of people
not like you know that, right. So I look at
it and I see all those And this is where
hal Putoff was on Joe Rogan. Hal Putoff went on

(02:13:17):
Joe Rogan and he's talking about I think he told
the story where he went to DC and they all
the spooks met up together and they were like, oh,
they just put some numbers on age and they were like, oh,
it turns out it's negative outcome. So we're just not
gonna do disclosure. To me, that was the greatest how
Pudoff mentioned because you're just like, this is how flippant

(02:13:39):
they are about a topic, that this is this huge.
It's like, we're just gonna decide this by having a
bunch of old white dudes go in a room and
put some numbers on a page and then if it
comes out negative, well then sorry, no free energy for
the world this year, this decade. Go ahead.

Speaker 3 (02:13:53):
What are your thoughts, Yeah, listen to a bunch of
old white dudes. That's true.

Speaker 2 (02:13:58):
But if I recall correctly that happened under Obama, and
I can understand that Obama, being the first black president
of the United States, didn't want to be responsible for
the destruction of the economy of the United States and
absolute social mayhem. Right, So he's the last person who's
going to agree to be the disclosure president, especially after
put Off in company presented him with this study showing

(02:14:20):
how catastrophic the consequences of disclosure would be.

Speaker 3 (02:14:23):
So yeah, I agree with.

Speaker 2 (02:14:24):
You, and I really increasingly believe that the only way
forward is if we can look is humanity ready for disclosure?

Speaker 3 (02:14:35):
No?

Speaker 2 (02:14:36):
Absolutely, not, absolutely, under absolutely under no circumstances in a
world where you know, like what half the world is Muslim,
and like, you know, like Africa's in the state that
it's in.

Speaker 3 (02:14:52):
And you know, Indians believe in the day of us.

Speaker 2 (02:14:58):
You know, they literally worshiped the entities which we can
see in the Mahabarata and Ramayana are associated with UFOs
and antiquity. Right, so if any entities emerge, immediately, they're
gonna fall down flat on their face and raise their
arms and worship them. Right in a world where China,
if it's told by whatever overlords, this is the celestial hierarchy,

(02:15:22):
we are your ancestors. We have the mandate of Heaven.
They're gonna get their entire high minded population to fall
in line with that, and they're gonna then perpetuate tyranny
over the rest of the planet with whatever hegemonic means
they have. Okay, in such a world, humanity is not
ready for disclosure, no question about it.

Speaker 3 (02:15:41):
Now.

Speaker 2 (02:15:42):
Is the culture of Star Trek ready for disclosure? Is
the country of Star Wars ready for disclosure? Maybe maybe
some subset of Americans who truly represent the American pioneering
frontier spirit are ready to step into a wider world
and do whatever it takes to retain their independence. But

(02:16:06):
in order to protect that culture and to secure its
dominance even in our own territory, let alone globally, what's
going to have to take place as a coupdeta.

Speaker 3 (02:16:17):
It's going to have to be a cupdata. There is
no way forward but for.

Speaker 2 (02:16:24):
Somehow us to inspire a coup within the American deep
state and identify the individuals who, in their heart of
hearts still believe in the American spirit. And you know,
the manifest destiny of America in the sense.

Speaker 3 (02:16:46):
In which Manly P.

Speaker 2 (02:16:47):
Hall understood it when he talked about the secret destiny
of America. You know where on the obverse of our
Great Seal it says Novus ordo seclorum a new order
of the ages. Is that America still alive? Are there
people in these deep black projects, in this emerging breakaway
civilization who still believe in that vision of the future

(02:17:09):
and are willing to fight for it? That's ultimately the
question is whether there's a vision can emerge that's both
inspiring enough and constructive enough to compel some of these
people to carry out a kudata. That's the only way,
and I'm sorry to tell you it's going to be
extremely ugly. It's going to be ugly domestically, and it's
going to be absolutely horrific globally, horrific globally. People talk

(02:17:31):
about the American Empire, especially the lefties, these lefties communist socialism,
the American Empire is the American empire that, folks, you
have no fucking clue what an American empire would look
like if one actually ever emerged with aneutronic fusion technology,
you have no fucking clue. And whether or not an
American empire actually emerges in a constructive and positive sense

(02:17:54):
will depend on whether you know a philosophically sophisticated vision
that distills the essence of Star Trek and Star Wars
and their visions of the future can actually win the
hearts and minds of some of the maybe younger people
within the extent power structure.

Speaker 1 (02:18:12):
Really well said, and I think this is why I've
now moved my focus towards AID neutronic fusion, is that
I think that aidentronic fusion is basically tapping directly into
zero point energy, tapping into an unlimited energy source that
is out there and will change everything. Now I already
said that there's all these negative reasons why disclosure can
never happen. You even agreed, And I think one of

(02:18:33):
the other ones that I didn't even mention was the
legal implications. This gets mentioned by the UFO people too,
is that, Oh, well, it turns out Lockheed Martin, for example,
built a compact fusion reactor. Charles Chase built it for
him in twenty fourteen. It went dark in twenty eighteen,
but his resume says that it was successful and it
is breathing on its own. So he built a compact
fusion reactor for them. So what happens to Lockheed Martin

(02:18:55):
when it turns out that the government's been playing favorites
for sixty years and now that's that's the only reason
why they're a you know, whatever billion dollar company that
they are. They're gonna get sued. They're gonna get sued.
So you've built these perverse incentive structures where now the
corporations that have been developing this technology for the military
industrial complex, they don't want it to come out because

(02:19:17):
they're gonna go bankrupt if they do. Their shareholders they're
beholding to their shareholders so that's a big concern for me.
But I think disclosure is gonna happen anyway, and I
think that they know it, and that's what they're afraid of.
I think that when they put those dates out there,
they say twenty twenty seven, twenty thirty, whatever, they don't
know the exact date. But what they know is that
we're not ready. But the information, the technology advancing so

(02:19:39):
fast that they can't slow it down enough that yes,
it's been sixty years, that may seem like a long time,
but in the cosmic scheme of the universe, that's just
the blink of an eye, and that yes, they've been
hiding for sixty years. But I think that they hope
that they could hide it for hundreds of years as
opposed to hiding it for just sixty And I think
they know, especially now with AI, that the AI is soon.

(02:20:00):
I'm gonna start spitting out the answers to these gravitations.
Get the AI can pay runs do what you and
I are doing at this point already. And so it's
gonna start spitting these answers out and people are gonna
be going But wait, no, nukes shouldn't be able to
manipulate space time. They didn't tell me they could do that.
And then AI's been like, yeah, keam, they figured it out.
It was you know, Richter and Knuckles and what have you.

(02:20:20):
So I think that's the thing. And then with respect
to well, how does it change, I also want to
address this last at this point, and then I'll I
think we can do some final thoughts here as well.
This is kind of my final thoughts is that I
agree that it's never gonna come out from the current
power structure as it's been developed, because they built the
system in a way for it to never be able
to come out, and that's how they were able to
hide it for sixty years. But that's the way. There's

(02:20:42):
no pathway for it to come out legally, and I
think that's why you're seeing the hal putoffs that Eric Davis's.
Eric Davis just had an interview yesterday where he said
he would need either an executive order or a pardon
before he would go talk to Congress, because otherwise he
would lose his pension, go to prison, et cetera. So
I think that that's part of the reason, is that

(02:21:03):
the system was set up in a way for it
to never be able to come out, which means that
the only way we could get it out is basically
a coup d'ta or some sort of overthrowing of the system.
And that's what I'm afraid of because I think that
would be very ugly.

Speaker 2 (02:21:14):
Like you mentioned, go ahead, yes, it'll be very ugly,
but there's absolutely no other way forward. And you know
what you started to say, you know, at the beginning
of that in terms of lockheed and litigation is just
another example of it. I mean, look, there is no
way that our current legal structure and even our current
you know, corporate organization and infrastructure, like corporate organization in

(02:21:40):
the sense of like electricity providers, you know, the petroleum industry,
the auto industry, Like this fucks everything. You're going to
need to like fundamentally re engineer our society, and that
cannot happen except around a new idea or a new

(02:22:00):
interpretation of the American idea. Otherwise, if it happens in
a vacuum, it's going to only lead to one place,
and one place fast.

Speaker 3 (02:22:08):
And that's totalitarianism, okay.

Speaker 2 (02:22:10):
In other words, just brute totalitarianism with no greater vision
or idea behind it. So again, I returned to my
closing thought that what we are in need of in
this country, more than anything else, is a new philosophical

(02:22:32):
vision of the American destiny. What it was that the
founders of this country, who were brilliant wise men, were
reaching torque as best as they could in an era
before Darwin. Okay, we need to post Darwinian, post Heisenbergian,
you know, evolutionary quantum understanding of the relationship between me

(02:23:00):
and the cosmos that the founders of this country intuited rightly,
That's what we need and until nonetheless certain elements of
our deep state can be inspired by that, there's no
way forward.

Speaker 1 (02:23:14):
Couldn't agree more. Jason, I think this has been my
favorite conversation that I've ever had on my podcast. We
seem to have bangers every single time. So I just
want to thank you so much for this conversation. I
just want to give you a quick minute to plug
you know, your content where people can find you and
get in touch with you, and just thank you once again,
so so much for this conversation.

Speaker 3 (02:23:33):
So go ahead, Jason.

Speaker 2 (02:23:37):
Reza Georgianni on Substack and Jason Georgianni on X and
my latest book, thanosis. There are links to that on Exit.
Actually just came out today officially. It's a book on death, rebirth,
on the afterlife. Very metaphysical, Ashton, My thanks also to
you for your intrepid, very courageous and tenacious research. I

(02:24:03):
know that it doesn't win a lot of friends sometimes,
but I applaud you for it.

Speaker 1 (02:24:07):
Thank you very much, sir. Let's do this again soon.
Thank you very much.

Speaker 3 (02:24:11):
Let's do it

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#26 | Jason Jorjani – Civilization-Breaking Technology, Fusion Weapons, and Space-Time Distortion

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#26 | Jason Jorjani – Civilization-Breaking Technology, Fusion Weapons, and Space-Time Distortion