Mark Sokol - Alternate Propulsion and Ufology

Mark Sokol is the founder of APEC (alternate propulsion engineering conference) and Falcon Space lab. We discuss various mechanisms of alternate propulsion as well as the current landscape of ufology and how disclosure can be achieved.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Is Mark Sokel. He is thefounder of both Falcon Space as well as
APEC, and today we're going tobe talking about some of his scientific work
and some advanced propulsion. Hey,Mark, welcome, Welcome to the podcast
here today. How are you doing. I'm doing okay, Thanks for having
me. Yeah, So I thinkjust let's get right into it. First

(00:20):
thing I want to ask about isyou know both Falcon Space as well as
APEC. Can you give us alittle bit of history around your experience as
an engineer and why you started theseorganizations and what their purpose is. Okay,
So, for those who know,APEX is the Alternative Propulsion Engineering Conference,
not to be confused with the Ageof Pacific Economic Confederation or whatever that

(00:44):
is, which is usually what youfind online. So I have a background
in your self engineering, started abusiness refurbishing hybrid batteries, and then through
various research, you know, goingdiving down the rabbit hole, I figured

(01:06):
out that UFOs are real extraterrestrials areyou know, visiting the planet Earth,
And that there's this technology cover upthat's been going on that coupled and coincided
with the twenty seventeen New York Timesarticle about a tip that showed that the
Pentagon was looking into this. Soalthough there has been you know, people

(01:30):
who've looked into this research before andwe're you know, we're quieted out,
somehow they were either brought out orput six feet under. I felt that
because of the New York Times articleand the Pentagon looking into this again,
it's probably a safe time to givethis another shot. So I started the

(01:51):
research on my own, just inmy spare time. It became an interest,
then it became a hobby, andit went from becoming a hobby to
becoming a passion, and then frombecoming an obsession a passion, it went
to becoming an obsession. But Iwas literally obsessing over this, trying to
figure out how these craft work,How am I going to do this?
You know what parts do we need? You know what experiments can we run.

(02:14):
I started meeting up with other peoplewho had similar interests. There are
other people out there, and fromthere it actually we found people with money
who were willing to fund us.So I was able to close down my
battery business and I saw full timeto this, and coincidentally, like the
pandemic came around and that the premiereanti Gravity conference at the time would have

(02:43):
met in person in SD's Park,Colorado, but because of the pandemic,
it didn't and there was a Zoomconference call instead, and we were supposed
to speak over there to show offwhat we were working on. That didn't
end up working out, and Irealized that, you know, this conference

(03:04):
went over so well on Zoom,I might as well just do one myself
on Zoom's just an email list ina Zoom account. There's really nothing to
it. And we got in touchwith Tim Ventura, American Anti Gravity because
he was the only person I couldfind online who's actually ever, you know,
managed or organized people who would speakon this topic before. And his

(03:28):
advice was just to go mellow,keep things easy. It's like hurting cats.
You got to get everyone excited aboutit first and they'll come to you.
Open the tuna and I'll come.So that's kind of what we did.
And it's been about three years.There's been I don't know, like
sixty or so conferences already with overone hundred and fifty speakers. We pretty

(03:53):
much got almost every speaker that waswilling to talk about this topic related to
the field on Apeck. At somepoint or another. Yeah, like,
if anyone's in the sield and hasn'theard of Apek, then they must be
living under a rock at this point. So let me ask you know,
you dug right into the UFO thing, And that was one of my questions

(04:14):
I was going to ask you,which is, what are your thoughts on
UFOs in general? Can you elaborate? I mean I also came to a
conclusion when the New York Times articlecame out twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen,
that there's something going on here andstarted to look into it. What was
your kind of awakening? What areyour opinions on the UFOs? And you
know, you said that there's acover up. What convinces you if there

(04:36):
being a cover up? How deepyou think it goes? And I guess
maybe on a broad level, likewhat does disclosure mean to you? Okay,
well, I want to take thisin a different direction. There's the
the Fermi paradox, right of howlikely is it that we're going to come

(04:57):
in contact with aliens. There's abunch of different parts to the equation how
big the universes, stars, planets, liverball, But there's one thing that's
missing that is binary, and thatis, is FTL faster than light travel
possible? Is there some way oftricking known science and allowing for faster than
light travel? We know that certainparticles travel faster than light, and the

(05:24):
answer to this really is a binaryquestion. It could either be yes or
it could either be no. There'sno middle ground here. If FTL travel
is possible, that means that Earthhas probably been already visited by extraterrestrials,
It's probably been terraforms by extraterrestrials,and we are probably there progeny in some
form of another, which most religionstoday say something like that that you know,

(05:48):
we're the sentence of these gods orwhatnot, beings that came from the
heavens. But if it's the otherway around it, if it's not possible
to have faster than light travel,than the universe is a very lonely place.
Probably we're not going to really getvery far. I mean, Mars

(06:10):
is attainable, but we're not goingto really get much farther than that.
So it's really answering that one binaryquestion, is faster than light travel possible?
That I think is the key.It's the technology that's the key.
They're not hiding U Frosen aliens becausethey don't want us get because they're afraid,
you know, that we're going toquit our nine to five and go

(06:30):
crazy that there's gray aliens out there. They're afraid of the technology that's out
there that will make the F thirtyfive, you know, phantom jet obsolete.
That's what they're worried about. Andhow deep does the cover up go?
Okay, First of all, it'snot really a government cover up as

(06:51):
far as I can tell. It'smore of a military industrial complex. So
think back to nineteen forty seven Roswell. Something definitely happened there, and it
was during the Cold War, thebeginnings of the Cold War. Aliens literally
landed live aliens landed crashed right outsidethe only nuclear base on the planet.

(07:16):
Radar advanced radar was involved in takingdown that craft, and we'll get to
that in a bit. And herewe had this technology and the military did
the you know what seemed logical atthe time. The first they wanted to
disclose it to the world, andthen they realized, no, we've got

(07:38):
to keep this secret, and theyhanded it off to the military industrial complex.
The smartest minds of the time,people who were most advanced in the
in the relative technologies in order tofigure out how to reverse engineer it.
And the rumor mill has it thatin about summer of nineteen fifty four,

(08:01):
so that's about seven years later,they actually achieved the first ARV or alien
reproduction vehicle. That's a craft thatcan you achieve some sort of anti gravity
effect pountless propulsion system using only manmade materials. And since then there's been

(08:22):
more and more of them. Therehas been visits, I believe of extrarestrials,
but a lot of the craft we'reseeing in the sky today are terrestrially
made, so in terms of fasterthan light, in terms of faster than
like communication or travel. So doyou believe that it is possible then?
I mean you said it is ayes or no? Are you still trying

(08:43):
to determine or do you think thatall this kind of lines up to that
being the case? I believe thatI believe that it is possible. Yes,
And how would you what would yourhow do you think it is possible?
If you had to theorize or fromany potential experiments that you've done,
what would you say is the mechanismby which it occurs, because obviously then

(09:03):
we have to be able to bendthe laws of physics at least. Right,
Well, there's lots of things inphysics that we don't fully understand,
and I think understanding them would showyou how it's possible. One thing,
for instance, inertial mass. Wheredoes inertial mass come from? Some may

(09:28):
say the Higgs field, But whatdoes that mean? I'm not really sure.
And that's just that's just saying,you know, oh, it comes
from there, But what is thatthat you're talking about? You know,
it doesn't really answer the question.But mass is this mysterious force that constrains

(09:56):
matter into a linear path. Andsomebody's trying to call me. And if
we can't affect the effects of inertialmass on an object, or reduce the

(10:18):
amount of inertial mass in the object, we can essentially go faster than light
because equals mc square does. Thereason why we can't go faster than light
because as as you go faster,the mass will increase by the square you
know of the speed of light.But if the mass is zero, no
matter how many times you multiply ora square zero, it will it will

(10:41):
always be zero. So what areyour thoughts on like the Alkaberry drive.
Do you think that that could bea mechanism by which we accomplish it and
essentially warping the fabric space I'm aroundan object. Yeah, that's another thing.
That's the warp drive concept is alsoanother way we can do it.
So, Uh, the speed oflight is derived from the permittivity and permeability

(11:09):
of space time. It's called newand epsilon or the the amount of electric
and magnetic push and pull bounce backthat empty space has. UH. Materials
such as magnets of them holding overhere, iron or plastics or you know,
different dielectrics that you put inside capacitorscan have very high values of you

(11:31):
know, hivity and permanentability. Spacetime, though, has a value of
permitivity and permanbility. It's not zero, which is which is insane when you
think about it, because the factthat it has some permittivity and permanability to
it, it has these electro magneticproperties to it, means that that that

(11:58):
is literally what is contributing to thespeed of light as we see it.
If you were to pile up energyin a spot in space and like build
a standing wave and build up anRF standing wave for instance, in the
near field around then antenna, thespeed of light will actually change because the

(12:18):
permititivity and permanbility space time has changedover there as well. And using this
mechanism we can push or pull offof space time and move things, move,
move objects around, move the craftaround. And it's possible that in
such a in such a mechanism,the craft would not be limited to the

(12:41):
speed of light like normal space times. So so then just in terms of
you know, you said the militaryindustrial complex you believe has this and the
ra aswell, you know, happenedand they may have gotten that technology.
Also said that you think that alot of the you know, objects UFOs
that were seen out there potentially manmade. So what's your thought on like

(13:05):
the military industrial complex in terms ofhow far advanced they've gotten, you know,
because we don't see this from thepublic perspective, right, do you
think that there is some kind oflike shadow government or breakaway civilization at play?
What's your theory there? Yeah,I mean this is all stuff that's
speculative. You can learn all youwant about this by going to websites like

(13:31):
Gaya or listened to the twenty andbackers and such by I would assume that
there's some sort of breakaway civilization.Shadow government would be like the person that's
three or four heads down from thetop, that has a permanent position.
That's who they tend to be.So we're not talking. We're not talking

(13:52):
to Joe Bidens or Donald Trump's inthe world talking. You know, the
people that you haven't heard of usuallyare the ones that are actually in charge
of this secret, and it's it'slocked up in the Department of Energies classification
system. There are classifications in theDepartment of Energy's top secret, uh,

(14:15):
you know, secrecy department that thepresident doesn't have access to. And by
by hiding stuff like that, theyare in government, they're able to keep
it secret. But they don't haveto keep most of the secret secret in
government because it's not really government secret. It really comes down to Lockheed Martin,
Scongpourt, it's Northrop Grumman some partsof going that are you know,

(14:37):
privy or working on these projects together. So how do you think they keep
it secret? Then? I mean, you know, is it just because
private organizations you can't access it likeor why do you think there's not more
people that kind of speak out.You know, you've talked to a lot
of these engineers and your APEC conference, right have you. Yeah, there

(14:58):
are many that you speak out.The thing is when they speak out,
the stuff they say so crazy,nobody takes them seriously. But they do
speak out, and they have speckedout and they they've even written books about
it, but nobody reads the booksand nobody seems to care. So yes
that they have been. One greatexample of this was like the second in
command Pentagon wrote a book day afterRoswell, Philip J. Corso wrote this

(15:20):
book, and that was one ofthe books that convinced me, hands down,
this stuff is real. This guy'scredentials were, you know, second
to none. He described how hetook parts of the craft and handed it
over to Bell Labs and you knowother companies that went on to develop great
things with it here in the US. So you know, from my perspective,

(15:43):
that was that was case closed.The UFOs are real aliens crashed we
have and we have we're back engineeringtheir technology, and you know that that's
the world that we live in rightnow. The thing is that amazing claims,
you know, big claims require lotsof evidence, and the people coming

(16:03):
forward other than their than their eyewitnesstestimony, you usually don't have that much
evidence. They don't have anything hardin hand, and if they do,
get stolen from them very quickly takenaway. So you have your dilemma.
Yet you have on one side ofpopulace that doesn't really want to believe.

(16:23):
They don't really want to look intothis. They rather believe in the Lockness
Monster, and they would believe thataliens have been visiting us for the past,
you know, ten thousand years.You know, it's funny you go
to Scotland. The t shirts theygive out says I believe and shows a
picture of the Lockdust Monster, whereaswhen you're in Roswald it says I want
to believe. It should be theother way around, because in Scotland they

(16:48):
want to believe. Everyone there knowsthat it's not that it's not real.
Even the guy who bought a houseon the side of the lake and has
been watching it for thirty years.He admits it's not real. But UFOs
are very much real. Yeah,so I guess the follow up there then,
logically is so, and I totallyagree. My opinion is coincide with

(17:11):
what you mentioned in terms of peoplejust don't seem to really care. You
know, they care more about whatthe Kardashians did last night than they care
about advanced technology that would change atcircumstances of millions of people. So how
would you go about achieving disclosure?Like, how let's assume it's real that
there are beings visiting us and there'sthis advanced technology. How do we get

(17:34):
disclosure out of that? Like,what's the path forward in your mind?
So the equipment behind me, wehave signal generators, are amplifiers, spectrum
antalyzers, power supplies. This amplifierover here came from Sandia National Labs,
where a lot of this research wasactually done in the first place. This

(17:56):
lab over here is researching the fundamentaltechnologies that we believe are behind these phenomenon.
By doing this research, by movingit forward, by getting larger and
larger results, and actually starting tobuild prototypes and craft, I believe we
can push the needle far enough thatpeople will start to take notice. And

(18:21):
whether the scientific community all comes onboard at once, I don't care.
All that matters is that we getthe technology built and we you know,
bring it forward to the world,and once that happens, the naysayers will
have nothing left to say. Yeah, Now, how it feels like though

(18:41):
that we had a big disadvantage,right, Like if this technology is being
produced by Lockheed Martin and North ofgrumm In, Boeing, Big low airspace,
et cetera, They've got tens ofbillions of dollars, right versus you
know, just like having a smalllab. Right. So how And this
is something I've been wondering myself,is like, so, what kind of
tests can we get that are goingto be equivalent enough, large scale enough

(19:03):
to be able to prove that wecan you know, float crafts, because
I've seen stuff like the Towns ofBrown experiments right where we can prove that
there's alternative mechanisms of levitation propulsion.But like, how do you get something
big enough to really track the attentionof the media wherever else? What's your
opinion. I'm not interested in attractingthe attention of the media anymore. It's

(19:27):
not really about that. We're tryingto interract investors and more importantly, very
smart people who want to join ourcause, people who can actually contribute.
RF engineers various smart people who canactually help out with the experiments and the

(19:48):
engineering side of things, and scientiststhat that are open enough to looking into
these possibilities. Those are the peoplethat actually matter. Whether or not we
make it to the front page ofsome big tabloid newspaper doesn't really matter to
us. What matters more is thetechnology, what happens in the lab,
what we can build, what wecan test, what we can prove,

(20:11):
and what we can improve on MHM. And so you know, in terms
of those people, my what I'vekind of heard at least is a lot
of these people get sucked up bythe government, by the d O D
and and and forced into kind ofworking for them or enticed into it,
incentivized. What's your opinion on that? And then like, how do you
attract those people? Go ahead,I've seen really, yeah, I've seen

(20:36):
it. People. What do youthink makes that happen? What do you
think somebody has to do in orderto get a knock on their door?
Uh, They're they're keeping tabs andthey're they just I'm not really sure,
but I think they're keeping tabs onon on the on our study groups and

(21:00):
trying to cherry pick out who wouldbe useful for their for their projects.
They do have much larger budget thanwe do by many, many orders of
magnitude, and I agree with youwith you there, But we are doing
open, open source research over here. We're showing everyone what we got and
telling everyone about it. And Ithink that's that's important. That's an important

(21:22):
part. That's something that they don'tdo now, just changing gears a little
bit. Going to APEX. Youknow, what are some of the most
compelling presentations that you've seen, youknow, regarding the present everything that's been
shown, there there any offhand thatyou think that you want the world to
know about. So on the theoreticalside, David Chester's presentation was pretty good.

(21:48):
He put together and analysis many differentmodels. On the hardware side,
we've seen presentations from UH Drew Ergrimarrafrom Drew Agamera and the other guy,
Charlie Bueller from down a NASA UHKennedy's base, and they're working on basically

(22:11):
gravity capacitor kind of thing and they'rethey're seeing pretty pretty promising results. We've
also seen presentation by David Perez fromQuantum Military Dynamics while working with closely who
achieved several kilo of thrust using somesort of warp drive devices in fractal antennas

(22:33):
and ham radio equipment. And there'salso been presentations by Bryan Sinclair who who
showed pretty definitively some sort of thrustbeing created from a inertial propulsion device.
Or we call the mass throwers becausethey're pretty much hammers that fly around in
funny orientations and smash into things anddevices kind of want wants to destroy itself.

(23:00):
It's at the limits of engineering,but moving mass around you can actually
convert angularnmentum to linear motion just bydoing that. And then you know,
I've given some presentations as well showingoff some of the results that we got
over here with our experiment. Andour experiment, for those who don't know,
is based off of this paper AntiGravity with present Technology from Frederick Alsophon,

(23:23):
so we called the Alsphon experiment andin it this he published this in
nineteen eighty one after he got aprovisional patent that was a patent pending on
his theory. And basically what itdescribes is a method of orienting sub atomic
particle spins. And there's many differentways why you can think this would actually

(23:47):
affect matter. But the bottom lineis matter or mass comes from the inertial
mass comes from the core of theatom, So doing something that affects the
core of the atom is the rationalplace to start. You're looking for ways
to affect mass itself because that's whereit comes from. Go to the source.
And one of the things that youcan do to matter is called dynamic

(24:11):
nuclear orientation. You can orient thesubatomic particle spins. Now The only known
use for dynamic nucle orientation nowadays,here's the book on it by CD Jeffries,
is to increase the nuclear magnetic resonanceimaging like an MRI machine. The
signals the noise ratio. You're ableto increase it about one thousandfold when you

(24:33):
have this dynamic uclorientation going on aswell. And we believe that when dynamic
nuclear orientation is achieved in a sampleor in a craft, let's say,
then the mass itself will become weightlessalong the plane and axis of spin.
And we've actually recently proven that thatthere is there is a correlation with eight

(25:00):
consecutive tests all showing the same datapoint weight loss at the same point in
a magnetic field sweep It basically involvestwo components. You have to have a
homogeneous magnetic field, and then youhave to have frequencies that go up and
down perpendicular to that magnetic field.A slight change that will energize the more

(25:22):
frequency of the valence electrons, whichis dependent on the strength of the magnetic
field. That's why we're doing sweepsin order to find the exact sweet spot.
But by pulsing energy into the valenceelectrons that they're able to transfer their
orientation energy to the core of theatom and build up orientation through a pulse
process over time. But that's exactlywhat we've seen with this experiment over here.

(25:49):
We're trying to improve on that andbuild up more and more orientation.
Also, I recently found out aboutan effect called the Overhauser your field in
interaction effect. Basically, when youbuild up this dynamic nuclear orientation, the
the orientation is contagious, kind oflike an electromagnet or a magnet. Let's

(26:11):
say this is a magnet. Theyfeel sort of like go around like a
torid like that in all directions.The same thing happens with nuclear orientation in
the core of the atom. Itobjects that are nearby will be imparted with
a similar effect, which explains whywhen flying saucers take off, they sometimes
bring up a pug of grass ordirt with them, and it's usually roughly

(26:37):
the shape of the craft or slightlysmaller. That's because that's the shape of
the field that is being oriented.That's another reason why these craft don't like
to land, because when they land, then they have to orient the ground
with it too, because the effectyou know, goes, you know,
permeates everything around it. So isthat like a coherence effect or a self
organizing effect, then would you howdo you find not self organizing? It's

(27:00):
a coherence effective. Yeah, justlike coherent light is a laser and you're
able to do amazing things with laser. Incoherent light, it's just, you
know, it's just light, butwhen you are able to concentrate it,
you're able to to amazing You're ableto cut metal with lasers. We're just
a few watts of it too.And whereas a light bulb that has the

(27:22):
same amount of lots you can buythem for like five dollars, you know,
one hundred what light bulb can't doanything safe same amount of heat.
It's all about concentrating and creating coherentstates, or we're basically creating coherent matter.
And the idea behind it really stemsfrom where's inertial mass come from.
So we know that it comes fromthe core of the atom. But in

(27:45):
the core of the atom you haveprotons and neutrons, these subatomic particles which
are essentially electromagnetic energy spun in onitself. So you have a bunch of
these spinning gyroscopes, let's call them. Okay, So let's say this is
the axis of the gyroscope and it'sand it's energy rotating around very quickly,
So this is the magnetic moment ofit. The magnetic moment or the axis

(28:06):
of rotation is rotating itself as well. That would be called a procession.
But there's many processions going on simultaneously. So while it's doing this, it's
also wobbling in this direction, andit's also wabbling in that direction. It's
wobbling in many different directions simultaneously.So imagine if you had a gyroscope in
your hand that was doing all theserotations simultaneously, and then you moved it
through space. What would happen?Well, if you had a gyroscope like

(28:29):
that in your hand that was doingall those spins at once. What would
end up happening is the wobbles,the incoherent wobbles of the uh of that
gyroscope would change by moving it throughspace. And so when you think of
a piece of matter, let's saya baseball or something like that, you
throw it through space, what you'reactually doing is imparting energy, or changing
the subatomic wobbles of all the particlesthat make up that baseball. That is

(28:53):
where the inertial mass is actually changing. That's where the energy, the momentum
is being stored. It's a changein sub atomic particle wobbles. Now,
the way to get rid of thatis by orienting them, because when you
orient them, just like a regulargyroscope, it's free to move along its
plane and axis of rotation without anyrestriction. But as soon as you try

(29:15):
to change that axis, that's whenit in parts a ninety degree and if
you try to turn this way,it'll it'll want to go that way a
bit. And that's what we seewith flying saucers. They're able to go
and do ninety degree turns at tenthousand miles an hour, go straight up
fly off at insane seats. Butone thing they can't do is a barrel
role. They cannot twist over quickly. In fact, many of the sightings

(29:38):
that we see of these flying saucersare of them hovering in place, slowly
changing their orientation because they need actualthrust to do that. Because the craft,
let's say weighs they go twenty tons, it needs enough thrust in order
to reorient itself. But it doesn'thave many thrusters on board because it works
using this mass reduction print. Onceit's in its new orientation, shoots off

(30:03):
along the axis, so all alongthe plane sounds like Bobbles are in terms
of what he said about the objectslike turning up on their side or whatever.
What are your thoughts on him?So my thoughts on bobblesar. Let's
say we had a time machine andwe were to take a car back to
the eighteenth century, right, whatif we took back in Austin Martin,

(30:26):
you know, f one carbon fibervehicle. Right, We took it back
then, and we handed it overto the scientists of the time, and
they spent their entire career trying tofigure out carbon fiber that would have been
a complete waste of time because thesecret is in the engine, right,
the secret is in the is inthe combustion chamber. So I think Bobblesar

(30:49):
may very well be telling the truthon everything that he said. That's possible.
There's some people out there that,you know, think that he was
lying and attend to but let's claimhe was saying that you're on everything.
I believe he was looking at hCLARINEF one. He was not looking He
was not looking at a handat chord. He wasn't looking at you know what
is necessary. He wasn't looking atthe Model T. Definitely not the Model

(31:12):
T he was looking at. Hewas looking at something super advanced, something
so advanced in fact, that wehave nothing, you know, to work
on here and what ends up happening. You know. The reason why they
allowed him to go forward with allthis stuff is that one to fifteen is

(31:32):
not available online on eBay or Amazon, and everyone knows that we don't have
we haven't synthesized it yet in astable form. It might be synthesizable,
who knows, but the bottom lineis it's not available. So anyone who
has an inkling to go into thistype of research. What they end up
doing is looking at, you know, for element one fifteen. They see

(31:56):
it's not available, and they gooff to becoming an accountant. And there's
very few people that actually go onand become RF engineers. Actually met one
recently that that went in that direction. But one thing that Babozar said that
was very telling. This is oneof the few things that he mentioned that
was of his own intuition. Itwasn't stuck into his head. He said,
when he was inside the craft,he saw these wave guide looking things

(32:22):
like tune tubes that were transferring thisgravity a wave or B wave or whatever.
And he said they looked like microwavewave guides, which is very interesting
because a lot of stuff behind meis microwave wave guides. That's how you
that's how you orient that little moreprocession, that's how you create work fields.

(32:42):
If you're going to change the permittivityand permitbility is based time, you
do it either with microwaves, youcan do with larger waves, but it's
gotta be done with RF. Andhe had the intuition to tell that's what
it looked like to him, andthat's probably what it looked like. Because
that's what it was. That's apretty interesting in terms of the connections there
between. You know, I alwaysfind out when people present story it's listening

(33:06):
to stories one thing, but youknow, we're never probably going to get
the crafts wheeled out in front ofus or the bodies. So it's like,
what does it align with actual science, physics, engineering and what it
does? And I find it tobe pretty compelling. Now a second ago,
and I just I want to clarifyfor myself in the audience. When
you talk about orienting the spins,are you talking about like the spins that

(33:28):
we would talk about in terms ofbosons versus fermions with integer spins and half
spins, or is this actually likephysically orienting the spins to be in some
kind of alignment here with atoms.That's a good question. I'm not I'm
not certain that I definitely know theanswer or even have the equipment to know

(33:51):
the answer. But the thing.The thing is that with sub atomic particles
spins, when we talk about spin, we're only talking about it in the
sense that we're able to measure it. Now, the way to measure dynamic
iglorentation is by looking at your NMRsignal to noise ratio and as it as

(34:15):
it increases, you know that thedynamic inclorientation has you know, been you
know, performed to x degree.But actually knowing what's going on in the
core of the atom, it's happeningso quickly. There's no equipment you know
around today that can that can evenread that kind of stuff to know for

(34:36):
certain what exactly is happening. Whenwe talk about the spin of a of
an atom, what we're actually talkingabout is its imbalance, the imbalance of
its electron band. So think thinkof an atom as like a solar system,

(34:57):
where of the mass of the solesystems in the Sun, that's the
core and then there's the planets goingaround. When they're talking about bismuth having
eight to eight half spin or whatever, what they're talking about is you know,
Mercury, Venus, Earth, allthese planets, they're all out of

(35:19):
balance and they're going wobbling like thisand like that. That's what it's talking
about. It's not talking about what'shappening in the core of the atom.
Because the way we interact with bismuth, the way we interact with every piece
of matter, is not by thecore that the core is what gives its
mass, but the electron bands aroundit is what gives its properties. The

(35:42):
reason why iron conducts magnetism is becauseof the valence bands the number of shells
of electrons that are around it,and that goes for every single you know,
molecule compound out there. We're intoreacting with the electrons. We're never
really interacting with the core other thanthe mass itself. That is the only

(36:05):
thing that really you know, comesfrom the core. So if you want
to get to the core and we'redoing something that we call orientation by what
we think is actually transferring spin orientationat the core, there's no direct way
to measure it because there's no there'sno equipment out there that can do that.
There's nothing that can measure stuff that'sbeIN that fast. Yeah, so

(36:29):
I guess it's somewhat theoretical then,but you're actually looking at observable effects right
to try to determine what's happening.Then, I think is the takeaway which
leads me to my next question,which is what do you think the relationship
is between anti gravity and superconductivity ingeneral? Do you think that superconductivity is
something that's required in order to achievethese coherent states, or do you think

(36:50):
it's a byproduct or how do youlook at that? So superconductivity might be
connected. We do have a lotof superconnectors here at the lab. We've
tried rotating them, we tried impulsinga thousand million vaults through them through vacuums
and different gas chambers and all that. But we need to understand what is

(37:14):
a superconductor is essentially a material thathas no electrical resistance. But the electrons
aren't the problem. The problem isthe protons and the neutrons. The protons
and the neutrons are where the massis. If we're trying to affect the
mass we need, we need toplay around with the protons and the neutrons.
Now we can use the electrons asa stepping ladder to get there.

(37:37):
But having zero resistance in a ceramicpuck of you know, ybc O superconducting
at liquid nitrogen temperature, it lookspretty cool. It makes really nice you
know camera candy. It looks reallynice to see it, you know,
with all the gases and everything,But it's not really the anti gravity and

(37:59):
I would not want to, youknow, spacecraft that were white on pouring
liquid nitrogen into the sidewalls in orderto keep those super conductors chilled. Yeah,
I think that my follow up thereis more of I guess what I
was thinking is when you were talkingabout trying to get to the core,
right, I thought, well,if we strip away the electrons, is
that a way where you can getto the core. And I'm not,

(38:20):
you know, nearly at the levelyou are with engineering, but you know,
And this kind of goes into thenext thing I was going to mention
is that Lockeed Martin has a patentfor a coherent matter wave being. So
I'm just trying to wonder if there'ssome kind of connection there or something.
I don't know, what are yourthoughts in general on I would coherent I
like to see that path. Ihaven't heard of it, but yeah,

(38:43):
you send that over to me.But yeah, coherent matterwave being. That
sounds like something that I'm working onright now. Yeah, I love all
these little connections between all this stuff. But yeah, I'll definitely send that
over to you. We found somepretty crazy locked Martin pattents and it kind
of goes to all the stuff wewere talking about early here in the beginning
of the podcast here where we talkabout how they keep this stuff hidden and

(39:04):
in many cases, I think it'sjust out there in plain sight, like
you were saying too, where yougot to look for it? Is this
patent recent? No, it's fromtwenty thirteen, I believe, if I
recall correctly. And that's the thingtoo, some of this stuff's been out
there decade, you know, ormore right, and it's like, wow,
well, yeah, the truth islike you're really you could throw it
out there, but things nobody's goingto look for it. You need to

(39:25):
have somebody who's actually gonna, youknow, verify whether this stuff is real
because there's a lot of patents outthere that don't work. There's a lot
of free energy and magnet motor concepts, you know, one battery charges another
battery increase free energy. We've forall that crap, you know, for
for decades now, and people hadbeen scammed that of millions of dollars,
uh, you know, trying toinvest in such stuff. But just because

(39:50):
you have a patent doesn't mean it'sreal. And that's one of the other
ways that they've been covering this stuffup by loading the internet and uh,
the mind space of humanity with withjust junk. So a lot of these
patents aren't real. I'm very interestedin a coherent matter weight beam because I
believe that's real. I have reasonto believe that coherent matter is the key

(40:15):
to anti gravity. Mm hmm yeah. So and then you know, for
me, it's like, I agreewith you. I don't know where the
line is from talking to Salvage orPious, which I may ask you about
here in a second, that youknow, I think that there is certainly
the yes, yes, yeah,oh yeah, you got there, you
go, the hybrid crack. We'reactually working on that, uh, that

(40:36):
experiment as well. That's another version. Yes, yes, we have a
spin weight over here, and andwe have the microwave energy and the high
voltage. Yet we're working on theexperiment. That's awesome, Yes, because
I think that some of the patents, for sure, it's like, okay,
I don't know if I trust itout there. From talking to salvag
or Pious, there is certainly alevel where you have to prove conceptually whether

(40:59):
or not it can work to thepatent office. And I think that in
order to even get that pattern thatyou were just looking at their proved he
had to get some like that theNavy. I don't know what the exact
position the person was, but comein and step in and say, oh,
no, this is actually possible.We can break the swinger limit,
et cetera. So when I seestuff that is like tied to the Navy

(41:19):
or the government, or stuff that'stied like lockeed Martin, which are these
huge defense contractors, those are theones where I'm like, yeah, these
are the ones that I think that, Okay, we should probably be taking
a hard look at this, rightbecause these people don't mess around. Yeah,
the inertial mass reduction device as well, and so you might be interested
in this as well then, becausethis is similar to what I was mentioned
about the super conductivity, is thatSalvator Pious believes that we don't need meta

(41:44):
materials in order to create room temperaturesuperconnectivity that can be induced potentially through this
high frequency gravitational vibration effect or potentiallyspin effect. And he said that the
vibration worked better because spin would causethe I'm gonna say this, or maybe
the atoms or something to rip apartor to be too much some kind of

(42:04):
force there. In general, Sowhat are your thoughts on any of that,
or what's your thoughts on salvad orPious and the patents in general?
My thoughts on solidor Pious is thathe recently woke up and is enjoying the
limelight. He wrote his paper onthe super course, and he's very excited
to talk to anyone that will givehim lots of attention. In terms of

(42:24):
his work, He's put out lotsof papers, including this one, and
about different experiments that we can try. There's this is basically instead of magnetic
field and microwaves, it's high voltagestatic field and microwaves. And here he
predicts that inertial mass modification is possiblevia that method as well. And if

(42:50):
that's true, I'm gained or we'regonna try it out. Cool. And
so here's another poll up question onthat is, what do you think his
inspiration was to write those patents?I think you can get what I'm getting
at here, right, because heworks with the Navy. You think that
they he was staring at crafts whenhe thought of those papers, or do

(43:10):
you think he just came up withthat pure inspirationally with no motivation? What
are your thoughts I think you gotsome motivation for it somehow, but I
don't know. I can't really answerthat now. I kind of want to
change gears a little bit. Now, going back to the whole UFO phenomenon,

(43:30):
cover up, et cetera, doyou have any advice for Congress and
the lawmakers or what is your opinionperhaps on the UAP congressional hearings that happened
last summer. Do you think that'sa useful, good use of time.
Were you satisfied with the results,and what would you do potentially to make

(43:52):
it better if not? Well,I was at one of those hearings in
person. I think those were necessary. They're seventy years overdue. I think
the Schumer Grounds Amendment to the DefenseAuthorization Act had its teeth cut out of

(44:16):
it. They should have had imminentdomain, you know, the right to
subpoena and the right to a disclosurepanel, and all of that was removed
by the powers that be. AndI would like to see another another amendment

(44:37):
coming in this year that will givethose teeth back and we'd have real disclosure
of the technology and what's been happening. I think people are distracted by so
much other stuff. Going on.Just we've got wars going all over all
all over the world. We havesomebody running for president who you know,

(44:59):
is being taken off the ballot insome states, and then the current president
can't remember what he had for breakfast. So people are you know, very
distracted from the stuff that are actuallymore mundane and more day to day.
But this story is the biggest it'sthe biggest story, not in our lifetime.

(45:22):
It's the biggest story in a civilization. And the research that we're doing
here at Falcon Space is not justyou know, once in a lifetime opportunity.
This is a once in a civilizationopportunity. You don't really get chances
to you know, attempt heavier thanair research ever again because once the White

(45:44):
Brothers achieved that, it was done, you know, and the same is
going to go for anti gravity,at least in the open source. So
do you think there should be moreuIP hearings and if so, how do
you like them to be framed?Yeah? I would I would like it
to be more up hearings UFO hearings. I would like you know, the

(46:05):
government to do a deep dive intoit. They're like timber sheet to put
together another another law or something orwhatever they got to do and try to
get this this subject to the forefrontand you know, try to push something

(46:27):
through Congress that actually has teeth onit. So do you think that part
of the government then is you know, I think you mentioned the believe there's
a cover up. So how doyou view the landscape of the government that
is covering it up? You thinkthey're all covering it up? Do you
think there's some people that want itout? What's you Have you ever thought
about how that might be playing outbehind the scenes. Yeah, there's a

(46:49):
lot of government officials that wanted out, especially the newcomers, people that were
recently elected, people that were beenin government for twenty thirty years. They
like the status quo. The statusquo is what pays their mortgage. So
they're not going to be your friends. The people that are friends of disclosure
are the ones that are new toCongress, new to this story. They

(47:15):
don't they're not saddled by any ofthe guilt or any of the blame of
what's been happening back there, Andthose are the kind of people that are
going to be your friends. Youknow, the friends with disclosure most probably.
What about in terms of the engineersand the scientists, what do you
think their views are. They're waitingfor more data, they're you know,

(47:37):
some of them are waiting for moredata. Some of them are are ready
to start right away. But forthe most part, I think when we
get to the threshold of proving thatthis stuff is real, there's going to
be an avalanche of research going intothis and that that's going to make the
equipment that it's associated with it verydifficult to find, and it's going to

(48:02):
probably the the industry as a whole, I believe, will become larger than
GDP of the United States within withina like a decade or two, because
it will take over so many differentindustries. We're talking about shipping, airplanes,
uh, space travel. It willit will change the world as we

(48:25):
know it. Yeah, what aboutstuff like micro chips and and some and
uh, semiconductors and stuff like that. You think that that we can change
a lot by this as well,or maybe already has been. No,
I'm not really sure about that.I mean, it's possible that that lacked
Martin patent that you talked about mightbe able to, you know, push

(48:47):
lithography down to the one nanometer rangeor something like that. But it's possible.
You know that this stuff is,it is much more more in its
infancy than microchips are. Microchips aretechnology that we recognize the potential of and

(49:07):
we ran with it, and lookwhere we've come. Like we went from
discovering it. What was it fortyyears ago that the semiconductor was discovered.
It wasn't that long ago that wasdiscovered, And now we're making semiconductors that
are two or three nanometers across.There are just a few atoms, that's
how small they are. And it'sreally we're creating artificial intelligence using this technologies

(49:31):
and seeing how far we've come.So the technology behind me, the equipment
behind me is like this stuff isfrom the this stuff is from the seventies,
from the eighties, this is oldequipment. I'm sure with modern equipment,
with modern technology, you'll be ableto push the umbrella of what can

(49:52):
be achieved a lot farther than anythingI can do here. Yeah, So
another thing I want to ask youabout is the scientist that are not the
ones that are potentially you know,working with the DoD and what have you.
What I call maybe the influencer scientistsare out there. Well, what
is your opinion on the public,mainstream academia science. Are you talking about

(50:14):
celebrity scientists like Neil de grasse Tysonin general? Yeah? Or I think
that I watched the video where youwere talking to Lawrence Krause. I believe
as well, you know, andI I don't equate Mitchew Kaku with them,
but I think that these are allscientists that show up on a lot
of TV shows right out there.What is your opinion on all them?
Okay, so my pints on myopinion on Lawrence Krause when I got there

(50:37):
to ask him a question, itreally was what I intended to ask him
was how big is the rock thathe lives under? And does he ever
come out to breathe? Because heis adamant one hundred positive, which doesn't
exist in science, that UFOs arenot real, while the government just had

(50:58):
disclosure hearings saying they definitely are real. We have we have live and dead
bodies, and we have ten craftat work. So this guy is completely
off of his rocker now, whichled me to the next thing that I
was thinking is like, there's there'seither something mentally wrong with him, which

(51:19):
I don't think so, because heseems to be pretty intelligent or there's a
reason why he's doing that. Andthe only thing I can think of is
that he is getting He's on thisstage to present the other side of the
topic, like Nick Pope was thereto say, Yeah, UFOs are real,
let's you know, let's discuss it, and Ethan Krause is there to

(51:39):
say the opposite. So they hadto you know, search New York City
and find somebody who would take onthat opinion. And Ethan Krause, you
know, was available that evening,and you know he wanted the paycheck.
So in my opinion, Ethan Krausis actually a debunker grifter. He's trying

(52:02):
to make money by debunking. Andthere's a couple YouTube channels and people on
Twitter that do similar things. It'smuch easier to debunk things than it is
to prove things. You know.There's lots of people who you know,
are debunking that the Earth is round, you know, and the flat earthers
that keep on debunking stuff. It'sit's a lot easy and people believe you

(52:25):
too. It's a lot easier tobe believed when you say something is fake
than when you say something is real, and you know, it all comes
down to money and ego and dopamine. Just you know, the feeling that
we get when we think that we'redoing something good. Yeah, I've got
to totally agree with you on thedebunker thing. I think that there's two

(52:49):
standards as well. Standard of proofis you have to build this mountain of
evidence and proof, and even thenpeople go, I still want to see
it, right. And then fromthe debunker standpoint, it's like I'm gonna
poke one hole in your thing andI'm gonna speculate and then that's debunked.
Right. Yeah, I don't know, Like, how do you how do
you even combat that? Right?Do you have any thoughts on that?

(53:14):
You wait for them to die?Uh? Science does not progress from people
like that. Uh. Science progressesor every time somebody like that dies,
and people like that usually don't changetheir mind, you know, even when
they're presented with the evidence to theirface. I actually read one UFO case

(53:37):
that was pretty sad. There wasa UFO flying alongside an airplane and everyone
was looking out the window except forone, uh, one psychiatrist there who
refused to look out the window becausehe doesn't believe in UFOs. Wow.
Yeah, it was significant enough thatthey actually wrote it in a book,

(53:58):
but that that just got me thinkingthat there's there's a mental component to this
as well. It's not just thatthey're not just craft, but they change
people to their core when they seestuff like that, that they realize we're
not the head honcho in the universe. You know, there's other life out
there, and there's technology way beyondwhat we have, and we're not fully

(54:22):
in control, and it has aneffect on people. And some people just
don't want to be affected. Theywant to continue. They're not a file.
They want to be an accountant.They don't want to think about this
stuff. Yeah, I think I'veseen it firsthand. I remember I was
showing my parents, my dad specifically, a video that had some pretty anomalous

(54:43):
stuff going on, and I watchedhis head jerk away like it was almost
like a reaction. And that psychologything that you just mentioned, that psych
a person who didn't want to lookright. It almost reminded me of that,
and it freaked me out a littlebit as well, because it makes
me think about the mood of theshow Westworld where it's like it doesn't look
like anything to me, where somepeople are like just blinded to some stuff
like that. And I think that'sa little bit scary because to your point,

(55:07):
I think it tells us. I'mcurious as to your thoughts on this
thought experiment or whatever from sociology,is that I think that a lot of
people out there in general just theydon't want stuff to be true, and
if it can't, they can't dealwith that concept at all. And then
it's kind of a question of likehow you know, it's not even a

(55:28):
matter of disclosing that stuff's provable.It's like changing people's opinion to the nature
reality itself. Like people have towake up to the fact that, like,
if anti gravity is real, there'smore to this reality than what we're
perceiving. And when people wake upto that, then they'll all of a
sudden see all the papers that areout there, right they prove it,

(55:50):
and the scientific experiments and videos orwhatever. What's your thoughts on that?
Yeah, Yeah, they they livein willful ignorance. A lot of people,
A lot of people live live theirlife like that because you know,
they have their nine to five,they have their ritual, they have their

(56:12):
their morning cup of Joe and uh, they got to go on to work,
and they they can't be distracted byany of this stuff because it's too
it's too fundamental to their being.It changes too much. Yes, they'll
they'll have no problem being interested inuh uh Taylor Swift's latest song, or

(56:37):
the you know, keeping up withthe Kardashians all their drama because it fits
in with their lifestyle, fits inwhat's with with it's already there. But
when you start to tell them,hey, you know you're to send into
an alien you know your your GNA'sDNA has been uh manipulated and they're visiting

(57:00):
us and they got craft that cango faster than people light. That's kind
of talk that just doesn't interest people, or rather just go home and watch
Jeopardy. Yeah, on that sameline. And I think this is one
of the last questions I want toask, though, is that have you
run into people at least I feellike I have. I'm curious what your
interactions has been. I've run intopeople that, even in the UFO Believers

(57:22):
sphere, when you start talking aboutfaster and light travel, that they start
to check out, you know,And that's what scared me is because I
think that people have this perception outthere that the people who are threatened are
the religious people in general. ButI find that it's not even necessarily people
that are orthodoxy religious. It's evenpeople that are believe that aliens are visiting

(57:42):
that go, oh, no,we can't have faster than the light travel.
And I'm going, well, howdo you think they're visiting us?
Right? Like, I don't know, have you run into any of that?
Yes, I have run into I'verun into that many times. And
how do we change that belief?I mean, how do we It just

(58:05):
feels like such a hurdle to getover. Right, just's proving it,
yeah, just just just just buildingit that there's no other way to prove
it. And sometimes even after youbuild it, they still wouldn't believe in
it, even if they see it. Yeah. I think that's the part
that's scary, right, is thatI think we're now in a post truth
world where even if the president comesout, even they wheel out a body,

(58:25):
even if they wheel out a craft. They did. They wheeled out
bodies in Mexico. One of themhad three eggs in its abdomen with a
fetus inside the egg and the nextthing you know on TikTok is somebody made
a cake that looked similar to it, and then all of a sudden,
everybody's in there going wait, wasn'tthat just a cake that we just saw?

(58:45):
And you're like, Okay, itmakes me wonder. You know,
are we living in the movie Idiocracyor you know, yeah, it's really
scary. The world that we livein is really scary because anyone nowadays with
these uh the AI tools can makefake images of anything, and it really

(59:08):
but the biggest, the biggest,the value we can we can we can
attain in this for all today isis truth because because there's so much there,
there's still the potential to lie,and the potential to fake stuff is

(59:28):
so big nowadays it's so easy todo that. So your reputation, keeping
your reputation, being reputable, beinghonest is is key to succeeding. If
you're not honest, you're not you'renot in align with the universe. You're
not going to succeed. Good advice, Okay, Mark, Well, I
think this is a good spot towrap it up. So I was thinking,

(59:50):
anything that you want to plug,if you want to plug your social
media, your companies, or anyshot out anyway. Feel free, This
is your moment, all right,Okay, So check out the website for
a turn of propulsion that's Outpropulsion altpropulsion dot com and sign up for our
conference. You can check out Falconspaceat falconspace dot org. And until next
time, lived long and prosper Thanksa lot mark, appreciate your time.

(01:00:14):
Take care,