Interview With a Pro-Life Advocate - ⁨Seth Gruber

Zach talks with pro-life advocate Seth Gruber about the complexities of abortion in America, exploring Planned Parenthood’s controversial origins and the modern church’s relationship with politics. Gruber challenges evangelical neutrality and argues that Christian convictions inevitably shape public life, raising bigger questions about culture, justice, and the value of human life.

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Disclaimer For all ideological interviews, this podcast is a
space for thoughtful conversation.
Hosting a guest implies neither their endorsement nor rejection
of our views, and a guest's appearance implies neither our
endorsement nor rejection of their views.
We encourage listeners to approach each conversation with
an open mind and emotional control, and to evaluate the
dialogue on the strength of the arguments presented, not one's

(00:21):
prior assumptions or biases. Welcome to another edition of
Ideological. I am your host, Zach Lee.
And today we have a very specialguest.
We have Seth Gruber, who is a pro-life advocate and I'm

(00:43):
excited to chat with him about this issue that, you know, is
pretty contentious both politically and
ecclesiologically. And and so, Seth, thank you so
much for being on the show. Thanks, Zach.
Appreciate you. Dude, tell us a little bit about
yourself so some of my audience will know who you are.
A large portion, though, will not.
Tell us a little bit about you, your background, the White Rose

(01:05):
resistance and all that stuff. Yeah, I so I was, I'm a
homeschool kid from Southern California, born and raised in
Los Angeles County. And then I went to public high
school and did my senior projecton abortion.
Even though my mom had LED a pregnancy center while pregnant
with me and I had kind of been in that space.
I realized I didn't have a lot of good answers to a lot of my
friends. And so my high school told me I

(01:27):
couldn't pick the topic of abortion.
And so I threatened to sue them for viewpoint discrimination
because I was a homeschool kid and I and I had actually
memorized the entire preamble ofthe Constitution.
And so they backed off and I didwhatever I wanted.
And then I went to a fake Christian College in Santa
Barbara called Westmont College,and you and I met through a
mutual friend that graduated from the same institution and.

(01:51):
I started the first pro-life. Club there and was a pain in the
rear because I discovered that there were pro abortion faculty
professors on the payroll who actually believed that like it's
it's a wonderful blessing of liberty for women to be able to
have their children slaughtered in the name of radical feminism.
And this is this is something good and Christian that we need
to protect in the same location that their savior entered human
history and to redeem mankind from their sins.

(02:12):
So that's sort of problematic. And so, yeah, I'm banned from
that campus now. I chose to stay.
I didn't realize how woke and dumb it was.
I just thought it was a Christian college.
Like, you know, I was naive whenI started at 19 years old.
And so I decided to stay and just raise holy hell and be a
pain in the rear instead of likeleaving, you know, go somewhere
more conservative. But I tell you that story

(02:34):
because I learned to fight, not at UC Berkeley, but at a
Christian college who puts the name of Christ on to their pro
abortion bigotry and refuses to fire people who would have
slaughtered the Christ child andtold Mary to exercise her
feminism rights. And so the problem is much less
the gay communists wearing Joseph Technicolor coat of hair.

(02:54):
The problem is way more the blood bought bride of Christ who
ought to know better, who's traded her birthright for a bowl
of porridge, who is appealing tothe spirit of the age.
I read Fulton Sheen has his powerful line.
He says those who wed themselvesto the spirit of the age will
find themselves a widow in the next.
And we're seeing a lot of peopledo that.
We're we're even seeing people like David Platt and Matt

(03:18):
Chandler, for example, try to clean up their woke record that
they haven't repented for or dealt with to enter this new
conservative era where everyone hates wokeness now, largely
because of Charlie Kirk. And everyone's up and realizing,
Oh yeah, all of this is like a progressive.
It's another religion and and we're done with it.

(03:40):
And now the Christian leaders who have played soft with woke
ideologies with alternative religions to kind of kowtow to
the spirit of the age, try to get the next generation to think
Jesus looks really interesting and attractive, are now
realizing, wow, they, they really traded their birthright
and now they're trying to play clean up with all the damage
that they did without repenting for it.

(04:02):
I I'm saying all that to say, wait, what, what does that have
to do with you, what you're doing?
So if you're a pro-life speaker,it's because this is how we got
to the situation. What?
Why do most pro-life pro-life activists and and?
Warriors and leaders feel like the church is not on their side
like the historically the pro-life movement was just
called Christianity for goodnesssake for the pro-life didn't
didn't start in 1973. It started on a hill called

(04:24):
Calvary and and all of. Of, of history has been a battle
for life ever since. It's always been our heritage as
Christians to fight for life, tofight for the little ones, to
fight for the least of these. We're recording this right now
during Christmas time in Advent.I mean, yeah, Christianity
furnished the children's rights movement because the logos
became flesh, the divine logic of the universe.

(04:46):
Him, like Logos, became a person.
And So what was the least valuedthing in Roman law at the time?
Well, just above slaves, as the bot at the bottom of the totem
pole was children. Children had no rights
whatsoever in or outside the womb.
And so Christ the God, man, the Creator, becomes a fetus.
This is scandalous to the ancient Roman mindset, and this

(05:09):
is what furnishes the idea of children's rights, that if
Christ and the Creator was a baby and had dignity and value,
then so do all children and you can't kill them.
Like the pro-life movement is just Christianity.
Yeah. And so the reason that I focus
so much on the church, Zach, is because we've been churning out
cowards and progressive pastors and leaders from our seminaries

(05:31):
and Christian colleges for decades.
And then we wonder why it feels like the church is asleep in the
light and others have to step into the space that God's called
the church to be in. So.
So that. So now, now you're like, shut
up. I should have never had you on
the show. No, no, I'm like, dude, that's
what I want. Like I want everyone to give
their position like full I, I don't everything in moderation,

(05:51):
including moderation. I was going to ask describe your
position on the sanctity of life, but I feel like that's
pretty clear. Let me let me ask a different
question then. Why do you think that is so So
basically, if I can just kind ofsummarize what you mentioned
historically, and this is in Protestant, Catholic and Greek
Orthodox, they've always thoughtthat abortion was wrong and
sinful and and murder and then have have traditionally been

(06:15):
somewhat conservative. Why do you think that
seminaries, churches, kind of pop evangelicalism has put
forward so many guys that want to be I hear this word a lot
winsome that want to be liked that are trying to remove
stumbling blocks. Is it What, what what do you?
Why do you think that's happening?
Yeah, I mean, great question, bro.

(06:36):
So there's this line from CS Lewis and I'm trying to
remember. I don't think is it till We have
Faces or the great divorce. I think it's the it's the great
divorce. I think I just read both the
other day. I'm freaking mixing them up.
But it's this interaction between two of his characters.

(06:57):
And you know, one of them is like the very intellectual type,
right? And just always pursuing
knowledge, but doesn't actually believe in the things that he's
studying. And then the other person is
someone who left that sort of mindset and is actually pursuing
the truth. It's not just about intellectual
ascent. And they meet again and there's
this interaction that CS Lewis fries and he says we simply

(07:19):
found ourselves in contact with a certain current of ideas and
we jumped into it because it seemed modern and successful.
You know, we we just automatically started writing
the kind of essays that got goodMarks and saying the kinds of
things that one applause. We were afraid of a breach with
the spirit of the age, afraid ofridicule, having allowed

(07:39):
ourselves to drift unresisting, accepting every half conscious
solicitation from our desires, we reached a point where we no
longer believed the truth. And it's a it's a powerful sort
of one sort of like almost almost like self reflection
because, you know, Lewis would say that he was kind of doing
that at one point. But it's also a powerful

(07:59):
indictment on sort of the navel gazing evangelical institutional
managerialist class that seems like they're only there to
enrich themselves. It seems like they're only there
to placate the spirit of the ageand these like fundamentally

(08:21):
heretical doctrines and ideologies to make life a.
Little more Christian. Comfortable for themselves, like
they actually don't know how to fight.
And now we've watched a woke takeover of the Gospel
Coalition. Christianity yesterday.
I'm sorry, Christianity Today, you know, together for the
gospel, so many like speakers and pastors that people used to

(08:43):
love, you know, 10-15 years ago and you're like, I don't even
recognize what you're saying anymore.
Who are you? My, my, one of my good friends,
Megan Basham wrote, we have her at our conference in the day
before the March for life in Washington, DC called Life or
Death Con. But she wrote a best seller
called Shepherds for Sale, how evangelical ministers traded the

(09:05):
truth for a leftist agenda. I think it became a New York
Times bestseller in within like 7 to 10 days or something like
that and it really opened up peoples eyes.
Who, who, who realized I had hadthese inclinations?
That there seemed to have been awoke takeover a lot of
evangelical institutions and churches and I had seen a lot of
this, you know, BLM, Fauci, Ouchi wear for masks.

(09:29):
If you don't love your neighbor,if you love your neighbor, you
have to get the vaccine, which is an actual title of an article
written by the Dean of Talbot Theological Seminary in La
Mirada, Ed Stetzer. I, I had heard my pastors to say
to white people need to be quietand, and listen to black voices,
almost like a ethnosticism, but I, I just didn't understand like

(09:50):
where it was coming from, how widespread it was.
And, and Megan ends up revealingbasically that a lot of these
huge Christian institutions are actually being funded by multi
million, multi billion dollar left wing propaganda groups and
that and that now that's not always the case, but it often
is. And, but, but remember, like
that's the cash isn't the only kind of currency having a place
at the table cultural respect. That's also a a form of

(10:14):
currency. I guess what I'm saying is
there's a reason why Rick Warrenis invited to Davos by Klaus
Schwab to the World Economic Forum every year.
And Pastor Jack Hibbs is not, I guess, is what I'm saying.
And and. Lennon had a word for these
people, Lennon. He called them useful idiots,
actually. And so that's the beginning of
an answer. A lot of that goes back to the

(10:35):
fundamentalist modernist crisis right around the time that, you
know, that J Gresham Machen writes Christianity and
Liberalism in 1923. We could talk about that for
ages. But yes, if if you as a
Christian are like, why does it seem like there's so many
Christian institutions and churches and leaders and
podcasters and worship leaders that are just going woke, that

(10:56):
that's been a long time coming and it's not new.
Yeah, there there's something so.
And you obviously know this space better than than I do.
I'm a philosopher by training, but my understanding is so
theologically Jesus is like, if you follow me, people will hate
you. This will be a stench of death.
Like it'll be a small minority and everyone will hate you.
This idea of being winsome and being attractive acts like

(11:21):
people are not spiritually dead.It's a form of Pelagianism where
it's like, hey, these people aretrying to get there.
We just got to get rid of all this gross stuff from our past
and us being mean and these kindof things.
And you're like, that's, that's polite.
You think that they're alive. OK, so they're not mad at your
tone. They're mad at your content.
Say it as nice as you want and then call abortion sin or say

(11:41):
that homosexuality is a sin or something like that.
It does not matter how nice you say it.
The content is actually what what, what they hate.
And so man, this. Yeah, we can talk about this for
a long time. Yeah, I'm sure you and I can
talk for ages. Next time we need to do it in
person over a cigar. But but OK, so what's 1 of the
push backs That exactly what you're saying reminds me from of

(12:02):
Joey from friends, the show friends.
It's not what you said, it's howyou said it right before he
realizes that he's basically a woman.
It's anyways, it's just a funny thing.
It's like it that there's, there's a, a hesitancy, a hatred
of actually, you know what it's of, of like masculine strength.
And so I think there's just a lot of like, I think like we

(12:25):
have a problem with soy boy Christianity where we, we equate
niceness with goodness. We don't need more Christian
nice guys. Niceness is not a fruit of the
Holy Spirit. It's not the 11th commandment.
Do you think we need? Do you think Jesus is nice?
No, I think he's good. Right, that's that's what I'm
saying. Like, I think there's a when

(12:45):
he's calling people names, making fun of them, flipping
tables. Yeah, but you're not Jesus.
I'm not saying that. I'm saying this obviously can't
be sin if Jesus is doing it. And if you want to be like
Jesus, that means there are times you play with children and
you're kind to the the woman who's crying.
But there are other times where you make fun of someone, you are
sarcastic, you burn them, you yell, those kind of things.

(13:07):
Yeah, that's right. And so you know this whole
concept of like love your enemy and pray for those who persecute
you left left wing left wingers who hate Jesus love to cite that
as the only thing they care about in scriptures in order to
shut up any Christians who are trying to oppose them transcend
the kids. And then progressive Christians,

(13:27):
which is not really even a thingactually.
They love to use that because they they just want the the
diddle the kids Kinsey and sexual revolutionary child
sacrifice mob to to find Jesus attractive.
But then a lot of well meaning Christians who are just not
aware of how fundamentally demonic and spiritual the

(13:47):
culture war really is will also cite that if anyone like me
speaks with any kind of like gusto or passion about how evil
these ideologies are, it's a fundamental misunderstanding of
what Jesus meant by that. Zach.
So the word enemy in the Bible is actually two different words
whose meaning is completely different.

(14:08):
In Latin it is Hostess, meaning Public Enemy.
It's like the enemy of a state or a collective group, like like
the enemies of mankind, for example.
The other word is animicus meansa private or personal personal
enemy, an adversary, a foe, someone who's unfriendly.
And then in the Greek New Testament, it's actually the
same difference we find. So polemis is a Public Enemy

(14:29):
derived from the word for war. And then akthros is a private
enemy found in Matthew 543. When Jesus says love your
enemies and pray for this to persecute you, he uses the word
Akthros. So the the, the, the woman in HR
that you don't like the bully onthe playground.
You know, gay Uncle Bob who can't stop talking about
homosexual stuff at Super Bowl Sunday like.

(14:50):
It like a. Personal antagonist, not like
the enemy of mankind. And the distinction is totally
lost in like in English translations because both words
are just translated as enemies. And so the implications for this
are like sort of massive for thechurch and for our like, I'll
call them like castrated pastorswho almost never lift a finger
to defend the least of these. When Christ commands us to love

(15:13):
our enemies, he uses the word for private enemy.
The Christian is never commandedto love the barbarian horde
storming the city gates and declaring war on your country,
your family, your way of life and the very freedoms that they
hide behind. And so like we understand that
distinction of enemy, like at a,at our home, like our family
level, like if someone breaks into your house, you know, and

(15:33):
they want to rape your wife and steal your stuff, like, you
know, you're probably going to meet the end of a shotgun,
right? Or a Glock 19 or something,
right? But extrapolate that to sort of
the national and political stagethat changes how we think about
everything. And so we don't need more
Christian nice guys. We actually learn.
We actually have to learn how tolove and hate correctly again.

(15:54):
Yeah. Thank you.
Tell me a little bit about and Ithink this will be fascinating
because a lot of people do not know this.
Tell me about the history of this topic in America.
Margaret Sanger, Planned Parenthood, the racial elements,
whatever you want to say about that.
You know, Roe V Wade, then Roe VWade being overturned.
Give me give me some of your thoughts on that.
Yeah, it's a, it's an absolute cesspool and we could spend 2

(16:16):
hours on it, honestly. And by the way, I have as much
time as you have, but it's up toyou.
So whenever we'll just go as long until you're like, I got my
next. Well, I wish, I wish I had No,
no, but but yeah, it's, it's this is one of the the less more
successful like cover up campaigns.
They've done a very good job at curating the legacy and history

(16:38):
of Margaret Sanger. And of course, this is the
founder of Planned Parenthood, the largest abortion provider in
the world, the largest provider now in America.
They were the second largest provider last year.
I think they're the largest provider right now of cross sex
hormones and puberty blockers. So trans drugs for teens is
Planned Parenthood's fastest growing revenue stream.

(16:59):
The transgender industry is. And Planned Parenthood is also
the largest provider of the pornographic comprehensive
sexuality education in America'spublic schools, Not because I
say so, but because they put it on their own website.
They boast that they're the largest provider of CSE
comprehensive sexuality education, which is not about
the birds and the bees. It's it's fundamentally marxy.

(17:21):
And we can get into that if you want.
But and so that's one organization and the left has
done a very good job managing that legacy and that history.
So much so that when you study Sanger, I've AI have a bunch of
first editions here at the office.
Some of them are hard to find. But when you study the early
coverage of singer, like the, the, the biographers writing

(17:45):
about her or writing about Planned Parenthood or the
articles way back then and way back then.
I'm, I'm, I'm talking like the 20's, the 30s and the 40s.
OK, so like 100 years ago or, or890 to 100 years ago.
And like, it was pretty well known that she was basically a
population reductionist. Eugenicist, racist, Marxist who

(18:08):
hated marriage in the Catholic Church like it's like.
Everyone knew that. And then over the decades, you
see the more shocking elements. Very true, absolutely true.
But just the more shocking aspects of the true history
behind saying your Planned Parenthood start to get removed
from a lot of the books that gotwritten about the things on

(18:28):
Planned Parenthood's website. And so for like, the modern
person Zach, who's like, well, let me go learn about Planned
Parenthood. Yeah.
You're. Yeah.
You're not going to find the stuff I'm about to tell you
like, well, maybe now because myfilm has been so successful.
And so now we're kind of bringing it back up to the.
But like five years ago, you would have to go down a little
bit of a rabbit hole online. Like, you're not going to find
this stuff on the first page of Google.

(18:50):
And it's so shocking and it's some of it's hard to prove.
I had to really go down the rabbit hole to find the smoking
guns and, and, and find that proof.
And So what, what, what is Planned Parenthood?
Well, it didn't start as an abortion organization.
It started as a birth control eugenics organization.
And it's still a birth control emphasis on the control aspect,

(19:11):
eugenics organization. In fact, Margaret Sanger coined
the term birth control. Most people don't know that
Zach, the phrase birth control was created by the founder of
Planned Parenthood before peoplewould would use the word
contraception. But birth control was created
out of the eugenics movement andit wasn't a way to help poor

(19:34):
black and brown women plan theirparenthood.
The minority classes that Sangerclaimed to care about until she
didn't. It was.
It was. It was a way to control.
The birth of the aspects of the human race that she didn't want
reproducing too much. She called them.
Human waste, defective stocks and human weeds to quote some of

(19:56):
her phrases to describe certain minority classes in America.
And so in 1916, she opens her first birth control clinic
illegally against the law in theBrownsville neighborhood of
Brooklyn, NY. Interestingly, she didn't open
it in Greenwich Village. Which is where she lived because
there was too many white people there.
She opened it in Brownsville, a minority neighborhood, a

(20:20):
compromise largely of black Slavs, Italians and Jews.
So that should tell you everything you need to know
about Planned Parenthood today. Before the overturning of Roe
versus Wade, 79% of Planned Parenthood surgical abortion
facilities were within walking distance, a majority black and
brown neighborhoods. And and, and if if for the
listeners who go, OK, but that'sjust because those minority

(20:41):
people, they needed more help inthe family planning space.
OK. So that's why it was out of it
was out of love for those classes of people and care to
lift them up that saying you're in Planned Parenthood put those
centers. They're not because they were
trying to obliterate or target. OK, Very well, here is one of
the early projects of Planned Parenthood just to abuse people
of that notion. It was called the Negro Project.

(21:04):
That's what Planned Parenthood called it, not me.
And here's the opening proposal of Planned Parenthood's Negro
Project. Quote, the mass of Negroes,
particularly in the South, are still breeding carelessly and
disastrously, with the result that the increase among Negroes,
even more than among whites, is from that portion of the
population least intelligent andleast fit.

(21:26):
Whoa. End Quote.
Here's how Margaret Sanger defined birth control.
Quote Birth control is not contraception.
Thoughtlessly and indiscriminately practiced birth
control means the cultivation and release of the better racial
elements in our society and the gradual suppression,
elimination, and eventual extinction of defective stocks.

(21:48):
Those human weeds. Who?
Threatened the blossoming of thefinest flowers of American
civilization. Yikes.
And then Planned Parenthood's founding board member when the
organization was established under AC-3 status in 1921.
His name was Lothrop Stoddard. He was the Exalted Cyclops of

(22:10):
the Massachusetts KKK chapter. That's there's a.
Lot of things there, but none ofthem are good.
Yeah, that's. That's wild.
OK. And then it goes deeper with
like the Nazi connections to it's, it's, it's only I could
talk for hours about it. Like it's, it's quite horrific.
Yeah, well, maybe you should come back on and we'll, we'll go
down the rabbit hole. OK.

(22:30):
I want to ask you this because Iwant to ask, I want to ask about
this issue politically, but I also want to ask about this
issue in the church because that's that's your background
before I before I do all that, what would you say?
So I I've got a strangely diverse audience, which I love.
I've got people that are atheists, I've got people that
are Christians. I've got people that are Jewish.
But like all kinds of stuff, men, women, different ages.

(22:51):
Your approach is faith-based because of your background as a
Protestant evangelical. For somebody who doesn't hold a
Christian ethic, should they support the pro-life movement
and why? Are there other reasons for
that? What are your thoughts on that?
Yeah, I mean, so this is always a fun conversation because we're

(23:12):
able to sort of, I think, disciple and teach normal
run-of-the-mill common sense realists in America who are not
Christian. They don't claim any religious
affiliation, but they're still breathing the fragrance of a
garden planted 2000 years ago. You know, Oz, Guinness calls

(23:34):
Western civilization a cut flower civilization.
And by that he means that the soil of the flower that is
America is unequivocally Protestant Christian.
Everyone knows that. Yeah, this.
Is Tom Holland. Tom Holland who's not a

(23:54):
believer? He wrote Dominion and he
mentions this, and this was Nietzsche.
Part of Nietzsche's critique was, hey, this God thing's
ridiculous, and yet all of you are still living like
Christianity is true. Yeah, well, I mean, even like,
you know, our our language in America of, you know, or in the
West, sorry, just broadly, like justice, equality, human rights,

(24:15):
like all of these are cut flowers from Christian soil.
So they survive for a time, likebeautiful in form, but severed
from their roots. And so This is why Oz Guinness
calls Western civilization a cutflower civilization.
Like you can enjoy it's beauty for a while, but cut flowers
die. One one of the most famous
atheists of our age, Zach just two years ago called himself a

(24:41):
cultural Christian because he said, I like Christmas are.
We talking about? Dawkins traditions.
Yeah, Dawkins, thank you. Sorry, I didn't have, I didn't
have enough copy today. And it's like, it's like, dude,
you don't, you don't get to do that.
Actually, you, you like you're sawing off the branch you're
standing on and, and like, and when you fall, it's going to

(25:02):
hurt and it's going to hurt bad.And so it's like you, you can
you can appreciate the cut flower that is Western
civilization, but if you don't plant it back in the soil of
faith, then it will die. And like Beauty and the Beast
when that. Last petal falls, the curse is

(25:24):
sealed. It's all over.
OK. I mean, we could, you know, the
we get to the history of Americatoo.
I mean, our founders were very clear that, you know, while it
may not have been a Christian nation in the sense that like, I
mean, it's not like the Inquisition or anything like
that, but like did this, this was created for a moral and
religious people. They were very clear about this.

(25:44):
And that this Republic is whollyinadequate for the governance of
any other. That if, if, if, if, if you if
you want sexual liberation, but you also want freedom, beauty,
goodness, justice, you can get that for maybe one or two
generations. And then that's it.

(26:05):
In fact, JD Unwin wrote this shocking at the time to people,
incredible study in 1934 called Sex and Culture.
And he studies 86 civilizations over 5000 years.
He's a sociologist and he finds a 100% correlation between

(26:29):
sexual monogamy, heterosexual marriage based cultures, and
cultural advancement. But he also finds a 100%
correlation between sexual liberation, freedom, free the
libido, If it feels good, do it.Let me do whatever I want and

(26:50):
the death of a civilization. In fact, he he says in in the
records of history, there is no example of a society displaying
great energy for any appreciableperiod unless it has been
absolutely monogamous. I'm Moreover, I do not know of a
case in which an absolutely monogamous society failed to
display great energy in every case a society.

(27:12):
Starts its historical. Career in a state of absolute
monogamy manifests great energy while it preserves its austere
regulations and relaxed after a less rigorous tradition has been
inherited by a complete new generation.
And and he said that it's as soon as a culture embraces
sexual liberation. Legally, they have 3 generations

(27:35):
before they're taken over by another society with greater
cultural energy. And he defines a generation in
about like a 30 year increments at the time.
So basically you have a 90 to 100 years from when you embrace
total sexual liberation freedom and your civilization goes bye
bye and it's replaced by one with greater social energy.
So like like for the atheist like you might not like.

(27:57):
That, but like, there's been no substantive rebuke.
Or discrediting of his book and it's been 90 years since JD
Unwin wrote Sex and Culture. It's because it's just part of
human nature, like we live in God's world.
And we will. We.
Will, like, reap the consequences of defying his
natural order, whether we believe in him or not.

(28:21):
It it's it's it's. An alley guys to the fat kid who
wants to have his cake and eat it too.
If you historically for 5000 years, the observable fact is
this. When you legalize gay stuff,
sodomy, child killing, abortion,infanticide, you remove laws

(28:44):
that protect the family. You allow for all manners of
sexual expression. The human historical fact,
whether you're a Christian or not, is that you?
Cannot continue that for very long until your civilization
goes bye bye. So what we're.
Doing right now in the West basically is we have a bunch of
godless leftists and godless conservatives.

(29:07):
By the way, there's such a thingas Christ.
Less conservatism, Zach. Of course.
Who are observing the, the, the,these wonderful flowers and
petals from a flower that was planted in Christian soil by
Christians and y'all ripped it out.
And so now you just want to admire the vase.

(29:30):
OK, maybe you can do that. Maybe your children will have a
little bit of time, but your grandchildren will not get to
admire the vase that holds the cut flower because at that point
it will be utterly dead. And so it's just one of these
facts about Western civilizationin America that the left hates
to talk about. It's why they say, hey, hey, ho,

(29:50):
ho, Western sieve has got to go.It's because Western
civilization is a byproduct of Christendom, and everyone knows
that. When so even when the left says,
you know, trans rights for kids,right, they say like protect
trans kids. Like even the fact that you have
an inclination to protect children, of course it's not.
You're calling to like cut off their genitals.
But like even the language of like protecting children, that

(30:14):
would have been utterly foreign to the Roman mind in the 1st
century. I mean, children weren't even
considered persons. So even the language the left
uses, they're borrowing it from Christianity, but they're sawing
off the branch they're standing on.
So why should, why should an atheist care about these things?
Because we're dealing with foundational issues.
Like if you can't get the right to life right, you won't get any

(30:36):
other rights right. And by the way, a conservative
movement that does not prioritize the total abolition
of abortion is its highest political priority, will one day
wake up and find that they have nothing left to conserve.
There's a reason why our founders created an order of
rights, the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of
happiness. Liberty and the pursuit of
happiness don't mean much. In fact, they mean nothing at

(30:58):
all at all. If you could be murdered in the
name of radical feminism. And it's an observable fact
historically that those who discredited, demeaned,
mistreated and killed the young.So unborn babies or infants
inevitably put other people in their targets as well.
When you can justify the slaughter of an unborn baby or
an infant in the name of liberation and freedom, there's

(31:21):
no one else that you won't discredit or dehumanize or kill
as well. And.
So as long as we continue. To allow the left to crack the
the concrete on which Western civilization is built, the
sooner you'll come to find, my dear Hawkins, my dear atheists,
that the very freedoms and liberties you've been enjoying
in the West for so long will soon be called into question as

(31:43):
well. So that that's like a high level
answer. We can get more in the weeds if
you want. Yeah, no.
Well, I want to make sure. So what are we, if we have time,
what I want to, I want to make sure that we get into some
political stuff. But I also want to hear your
thoughts on, I mean, evangelicals are an enormous
voting bloc and the values have shifted almost completely from
what they were, let's say, 60 years ago.

(32:04):
And so, but I want to make sure we have time for that and then
we can get into the weeds. But I want to let me combine a
few of these together. So here's some of the most
common objections you hear from people that would probably
disagree with you. Be against the pro-life cause.
And so you can take this wherever, wherever you want to
go. 1 is that it's one issue among many, one issue, single
issue voting. The other is that if you're

(32:25):
pro-life, you also have to be, you know, against the death
penalty, against capital punishment, against
self-defense, against killing and war.
And then the, the third one, I've heard this one a lot, which
is, well, if you really care about life, you should also care
about education. You should also care about
healthcare. And there's kind of an
equivocation on life versus quality of life.

(32:47):
But I want to hear your thoughts.
You can address any of those, but that's the most common.
I, I imagine if someone's listening to this and they're
like, I don't care about any of this stuff politically, what?
But I just think what about this?
Yeah, So, yeah, OK. I mean, yes, it's it's it's
retarded. I mean, like anyone that says
that would never say that if thequestion was slavery, right.
I mean, and, and by the way thatit's because the same people who
say that treat racism as as a very important issue, like the,

(33:10):
the, the, the same people who say that the.
Oh yeah, the the slaughter and dismemberment and flushing of
babies down the American sewage system at the tune of a million
a year is is A1 issue among manyare the same people who will say
that Trump making jokes about sexually inappropriately
touching women. It is is.
It determines how they go to theballot box.

(33:31):
Spare me your navel gazing if ifif you think that joking about
sexually inappropriately touching women becomes your
single issue about whether or not you vote for the mean
tweeting orange man. But the slaughter of 70 million
babies in the last 50 years doesn't get the attention of a

(33:52):
single issue voting. You're a fraud.
Your moral compass is broken andI trust you on nothing and and
we. Hear these same things, by the
way, Zach, from a lot of like, you know, evangelical Christian
leaders, little wokey woke types, right, who love to
conflate abortion with other issues and that those other two
questions you got, that's what they're doing and we can we can

(34:12):
get to that, right? They're like, you know what, I'm
not pro. Life I'm whole life.
It's like, what Is this the stupidest?
Phrase I've ever heard or I was like, I'm not pro.
I'm I'm pro-life from womb to tomb, right.
I hate that phrase because what you're doing is you're saying
like pro-life means more than ending abortion.
That's what they're saying right?
It would be like saying, have you heard of the end it
movement, Zach? They call themselves the end it

(34:32):
movement. I love it.
It's about ending human trafficking.
It's wonderful. No one would ever insist that
the end it movement is not really about ending it unless
they were also focusing on, oh, the pro-life movement that if
you really want to end human trafficking, you're not really
anti human trafficking unless you're also doing something

(34:54):
about abortion and school lunches.
Like, like people would say, no,it's actually really good Zach
that like the end it movement islike narrowly focused on this
one thing because he who fights everywhere, fights nowhere and
and by the way, but the end it movement, the the, the movement
to end human trafficking. OK, they, they don't have a
problem with funding right, because it's it's a hip and sexy

(35:15):
thing to fund. Like all the lefty Hollywood
multi millionaires. They love to give money to
ending trafficking. None of them want to give money
to protect any unborn right. And so the the fact that the
pro-life movement, who's vastly underfunded and and understaffed
by and large anyways, is told that they're not really pro-life
unless they divert their organizational resources to

(35:37):
pursue every other extension of justice is asinine.
And it's usually coming from people who do little or nothing
to actually end abortion in the 1st place.
They've never lifted a finger tostop the killing.
They're not involved in this movement at all.
But they'll bench warm on their fat butts, OK, while they
Netflix and chill and then scream at me and other warriors
who are trying to end the mutilation and murder of little

(35:59):
babies in the womb and tell us we're not really pro-life unless
we vote for Kamala Harris. And so there was a group called
Evangelicals for Biden, Evangelicals for Harris.
And their whole goal was to makethe argument that that we hear
from people that you just mentioned, which is that you
have to be about all these otherissues.
If you're pro-life bona fides are going to be accurate.

(36:20):
Apply that to any other movement, to any other cause and
it would be laughed. It would be it would be laughed
out of town. It's only pro lifers who who are
attacked for not actually being about the thing they say they're
being about unless they try to pursue every other extension of
justice. It it's one of the most stupid
things I've ever heard, and I nearly always hear that from

(36:42):
people who have never tried to end the killing of babies in the
womb. Yeah, it it, you know what
reminds me of? So like when you had the Black
Lives Matter movement and then people would say all lives
matter. What people got upset about is
they say, wait a second, you're by saying that that I mean, it's
true that all lives matter. But like by saying that, what
you're really saying is stop focusing on this thing.
Stop focusing on the Black Livesmatter.

(37:03):
Make it about everybody so that it loses momentum that that was
this is kind of like the, the pro-choice movements.
All lives matter. What they're trying to say is if
you don't care about all these things, and by the way, they
don't, they're not going to distinguish like the right to
not be murdered, the right to live is super different than the
quality of life you have, whether or not you have free
school lunches, like you don't have a chance to have any

(37:25):
education or healthcare or anything if you're dead.
And so there's, there's this weird equivocation that's that's
going on with this with, with with the purpose that you that
you mentioned. Well that listen that their.
Goals are pretty clear, actually.
It's to it's to make the pro-life movement impotent and
ineffective. Because if we're.
Pursuing every other thing or trying to prove that no, no,

(37:48):
we're, we're also for these other things, then we're not
really going to be effective. And, and again, those, the
criticisms usually come from people who do nothing or they
come actually from left wingers and progressive Christians,
which again is a misnomer. There's no such thing as a
progressive Christian and, and so anyway, so, so it's very,
very frustrating. And and then and then the the.
Yeah, the whole thing about like, well then you know, what

(38:09):
are you doing about like universal healthcare and, and
making healthcare costs cheaper and what are you doing about
universal education? What are you doing about school
lunches and, and do you support this and do you support that?
First of all, there, like you said, there's a difference
between the right protecting life in the womb and quality of
life outside the womb. Those are fundamentally
different. But of course all of those

(38:30):
things that they're espousing orpro-life extensions, that's just
all communism. Like I don't want the government
involved in those decisions because when the government gets
involved in those decisions, human flourishing decreases and
costs always rise and so. What really the people who say
like, if you're pro-life, you need to be ABCDE?
Most of those other things they insist that we support are

(38:52):
actually very dehumanizing things because they're
socialistic and communist in in fundamentally, which is very
anti human because it discourages innovation.
It crushes the citizen. It it, it, it increases costs
or, or or it decreases costs fora while until it and then it
increases costs and then you don't get as good quality.

(39:14):
There's a reason why even the Nordic socialist countries that
the left loves to celebrate is just these wonderful examples of
human flourishing, why those people fly to America when they
need a speedy operation right away.
And so anyways, all that's like,you know, tangential, but but
they use it to try to say you have to support these things if
you're pro-life and it's, it's just not true.
Talk to me about because one of the things you'll say that

(39:37):
you'll hear said is OK, well, I want to be pro, be pro-life on
everything is the just taking oflife by the state for somebody
who's criminally guilty, quite abit different than the
individual taking of life by an individual.
Yeah. So that's what like so when
people say and, and again I'm shocked you, you tell me from
your world view, tell me how youwould answer this.

(40:00):
Is Christianity pro-life or are they pro innocent life meaning
legally innocent 'cause there are times, and correct me if I'm
wrong, but there seems to be a lot of times both in Judaism
with the Old Testament and then in Christianity where.
The government is told to and commanded to kill.
There's the death penalty. That God.
Well, even Paul says the state doesn't bear the sword in vain.
That's right, Romans 13. Yeah.

(40:21):
And, and so if you're, if you'rea Christian and you want, you
think that the death penalty is unchristian, you just indicted
God, you idiot. If you, if you're trying to make
a moral argument against the death penalty, you were saying
God is immoral. Good luck.
Have fun with that one. OK, so firstly, I don't think
there's even room for a Christian to argue that the
death penalty is immoral now because you'll indict God.

(40:44):
You could. You could.
Argue that maybe it's not effective.
I'm willing to hear that argument.
At least that's reasonable. I think it is effective, by the
way, and I can give some examples.
Every state that allows school teachers to carry guns don't
really have a problem with school shooters.

(41:07):
In fact, many of these times they advertise this, which is
great, Zach, right. They'll advertise where not only
is it like it usually a state where it's open carry, but
they'll say we we allow and encourage our teachers to carry.
Yeah, that's I'm in Texas, dude.So in Texas, it's like you see.
Those, yeah, would be school shooter.
Something tells me they're not going to try to walk onto that

(41:27):
campus, right. And then of course, people freak
out and they're like, Oh my gosh, you would have teachers
carry. You want to know how many
schools? That allow teachers to carry
have had an accident with a misfire or or something horrific
that has happened because teacher yeah zero is the answer
is 0 so and so and then what areother examples right like when
these cities counties were passing these laws in 2020.

(41:50):
Remember with BLM just robbing stealing crap everywhere they
went? They were saying if you, if you,
if you steal less than $1000 worth of stuff, then like, we're
not going to come after you. Like it's legal to steal less
than $1000 of stuff. This shocking thing happened.
It was crazy, Zach. I could have never predicted it.

(42:11):
More people started stealing crap.
I know. It's just, it's crazy, you know,
like for your listeners, like I,I assume no one is dumb enough
to think that if we increase thespeed limit on our highways to
90 miles an hour, I think we allknow that people would start
driving. 90 miles an hour. I, I think we all know that that

(42:31):
90% of the population would not continue to drive 70 if the
speed limit was increased to 90.Like it's almost painful to have
to like explain this stuff like I, I don't know, like why we're
so well, I do know many reasons why we're so stupid as a as a
public in America, but. So here's the.
Question. Let's apply that now to all of
this. If it was a punishment by law

(42:56):
that you would be hung in the public square the morning after
you raped a innocent young man or woman, do you think rape
would go up or down it? Would go down I mean this is
this is so simple. This is and this is you see this
in world history like the purpose of laws is not that
people aren't going to break them.
They are, it's that it is a deterrent and there's a, there's

(43:19):
a, there's a, there's also a standard by which you can judge
them when they break it. But the deterrent like This is
why. Like This is why somebody who is
normally OK driving without their seat belt will buckle
their seat belt if they've been drinking because they don't want
to get pulled over and have a much worse penalty.
Yeah, exactly. And there are pro-life leaders,
Zach, who will, who are, who don't believe in the death

(43:40):
penalty. They argue against it and they
say I don't. I'm not convinced that it's a
deterrent. Well, one of the reasons that
it's not been a super great deterrent recently is because
it's not actually carried out. Sometimes people sit on death
row for years, sometimes decades, and sometimes as they
get off. I'm saying that if swift
punishment like if the death penalty was given within weeks

(44:01):
or months of when you killed someone, raped someone of.
Course, that would change the whole formula.
Yeah, people have already forgotten people.
After 20 years of death row, people have already forgotten,
so it doesn't have the cultural effect exactly.
That's right. So, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So. So yes, we need to make the
death penalty great again. And every pro lifer should
believe that because we're interested in justice, right?

(44:24):
We want justice. And it's not a violation of your
pro-life bona fides to support the death penalty, because to be
pro-life doesn't mean that we oppose all killing.
It means we oppose killing innocent human beings.
It's. Murder and what's?
Worse about abortion is that it's legal, state sanctioned,

(44:47):
and funded by our taxpayer dollars.
OK, I want to talk to you about this because this is one of the
things you mentioned. I, I, I think is an interesting
kind of rabbit trail we can go down the people primarily that
allow this to happen or, or the kind of the, the guard that left
the watchtower is, you know, Protestant evangelicalism.

(45:08):
Talk to me about what you see inthe churches on this.
Talk to me about why churches want to just do this third way
ISM thing where they're like, I'm neither a Democrat nor a
Republican and I'm like, OK, no,I, I, I hear that.
Are you pro-life or pro-choice? Are you for gay marriage or are
you against it? Or like, if we just talk about
the issues, what what is going on in evangelicalism?

(45:30):
Do you feel? How, how is abortion?
Here's a better way to say it. How is abortion linked to other
political and bigger political movements, and how does that
play out in the church? Oh, is that all?
Yeah, you could take that word. I'm just going to give you 1000
things and you just pick whatever is interesting and go,
sorry, that's like a paragraph question.
Yeah. Yeah, no, no, it's good.
I mean, the, the studies have borne out, by the way, how few

(45:51):
churches in America preach against abortion, have any kind
of ministry at the church in regards to this evil.
You know, I think it's under 10%of churches have any kind of
ministry or outreach when it comes to the murder of the
unborn. I mean, that's atrocious.
And, and that doesn't always mean that they're, you know,

(46:15):
could be thrown in sort of the third way as in category, but it
often means that and, and for decades and decades and decades,
the church has abdicated their role in the public square.
And they've said, well, we're not political.
We just do the gospel. We just focus on Jesus.
We focus on Christ, Christ and him crucified.
And and you know what? We've got people in our.

(46:36):
Churches, you know Zach, who good, good people on both sides.
You know, we got, we got Democrats and Republicans and
you know, the Kingdom of God, man, you know, it transcends.
You know, the our earthly systems and Jesus was neither a
Republican nor a Democrat, whichby the way, like anything that
like Satan says has a kernel of truth.

(46:56):
Like obviously Jesus would not have been a Republican or a
Democrat. He's the king.
So he is pretty political in that sense because he's like a,
he's actually like a monarch andhe's ruling and reigning and
he's coming back. So Jesus is pretty political as
it turns out, but of course he doesn't fit perfectly into our
two, our two party political system.
But that doesn't. Mean that Christians can be
excused from these issues and when you look at the the, the

(47:20):
difference between our two political parties today Zach and
listen like I, I lose donors sometimes Zach when I RIP the
GOP in the Republican Party and I've I've criticized Trump
heavily on IVF and on abortion. And so I'm happy to RIP the GOP
whenever they need to because I'm not accountable to the GOP.
I'm accountable to the God, but if you just look at the
difference between the two partyplatforms, I mean, they couldn't

(47:42):
be more different. At least with the Republican
Party, they have a platform on which we can hold them
accountable. Language that is a.
Commitment to marriage and to children's rights and to the
sanctity of life, right. Like you look at the Democratic
Party platform, just put the twonext to each other.
It's like 1's from Satan's butt hole, OK.
And one is from maybe a cut flower that that still has

(48:04):
vestiges of Christendom. So, so that's a part we can work
within for better change to actually get things done.
But to but to use the phrase that like, hey, you know, we're
not called to get involved politically.
We're called to save souls, the Great Commission to love people
now to bring them Jesus. And so we're not going to get
into these political issues is, is one of the most heinous,

(48:29):
cowardly things that a Christiancould do in the 21st century
because those issues that are now dividing Americans, the
country and the two political parties, Zach, those are not
issues about like how much should we tax people?
How expensive should healthcare be?
No, the, the issues that divide the two party platforms and

(48:49):
Americans broadly is should we murder children through point of
birth in their, in their in, in their mother's uterus and and
fund it with our taxpayer dollars?
Should we chop off their scalps and put them on Lab Rats to
create humanized mice, which is something Francis Collins and
Anthony Fauci did, by the way, while while they were being
celebrated by Rick Warren, Ed Stetzer, Russell Moore, Tim

(49:14):
Keller and David French and NT Wright and Phil Fisher?
And none of those people have repented for their cooperation
with a man I think we can call the Joseph Mengele of the 21st
century, Francis Collins. I have a whole piece of clear
truth media people would like toread that's called the most evil
Man and evangelicalism and thosewho platformed him.
What are the issues that divide the party?

(49:36):
Should should gay dudes be able to rent a poor woman's uterus,
buy another woman's gammies, gestate a child and take it home
to a motherless home? What, what?
What other issues divide those two political parties?
Should throuple be able to get kids and tell them that they

(49:58):
have 3 daddies or three mommies?How about this?
Should should single adult men be able to use IVF and big
fertility to get babies with 0 background checks and take them?
Home That's another issue that divides the two political

(50:21):
parties. How about should men be able to
walk into a woman's locker room at school and show their dangle
and Dong because that they say there's a woman living in their
soul? That's another issue that
divides the two political parties.
So for any pastor who says I'm not political, I just do Jesus.
No, you've allowed the other side to define the terms of

(50:43):
engagement. And you won't even contend
against or preach against what is fundamentally demonic issues
that were dealt with in Genesis 1-2 and three.
What is a woman? What is marriage?
What is the family for? What were humans created to do?
What's the sanctity of life? You won't even deal with issues
that your Lord and Savior has defined for you as the pastor
and for us as Christian Christians because they've been

(51:05):
rebranded as political. I mean, these issues are not
political. And, and I can prove it by the
way, the Democrat Party in the 1960s, Zach, pro-life against
gay marriage and against transgenderism, that those two
parties were in agreement in the50s and 60s that those issues,
what issues, the issues that arethe hottest political issues of

(51:28):
2025. The two political parties a few
decades ago were in agreement onall of those issues.
And they said we don't test those issues.
Those are those are spiritual, Christian, cultural issues.
Now they've all been rebranded as political.
Why? Because that was the plan.
The feminist wrote about this act.
They wrote about this. Shulamath Firestone, Kate
Millett, Betty Friedan, Will andthen and then and then their

(51:52):
their mentors, Wilhelm Reich, Herbert Marcuse, they wrote
about this, that the personal isthe political.
That was the phrase of the feminist.
You remember that, Zach? The personal is the political.
What does that mean? Politicize everything.
Politicize the family, Politicize gender, politicize
parenthood, politicize marriage.Drive a political wedge into the

(52:14):
most personal, familial, Christian cultural issues as
possible 'cause division everywhere.
Take dominion. It's the cultural mandate
flipped upside down. I could, I could talk about this
for another 50 minutes. But like, if, if you say that I,
I, so this is Tim Keller, all Tim Keller's written all over
this, by the way, right? He, he was famous for saying

(52:34):
basically that the, the Bible doesn't tell us, you know, how
to vote. And so he said like we have what
he called it was he called liberty.
He said we have liberty to vote for whoever we want.
OK. And he was one of Francis
Collins biggest fanboys before he died.
By the way, Tim Keller platformed on his podcast,

(52:54):
praised, blessed and called a Christian brother the Joseph
freaking mangali of the 21st century.
I don't know if your listeners actually fully understand this.
Francis Collins Fauci Fauci's boss, Francis Collins, the head
of the NIH, Anthony Fauci reported to him.
Francis Collins funded studies to chop off the breasts of

(53:16):
teenage girls who thought they were boys.
Zach He funded studies to scalp full term aborted children at
the University of Pittsburgh andput them on Lab Rats.
He funded studies to create an app to track the anal sex
activity of teenage boys on an app without parental consent or
knowledge. Francis Collins declared himself

(53:36):
an ally of the LGBTQ movement. Francis Collins says he does not
believe that human life begins aconception.
I have the citations and proof for all of that.
And Tim Keller called this guy aChristian brother.
He he equated him Zach to was itto Samuel or Joseph or one of
the prophets? He compared him to one of the

(53:58):
prophets of the Old Testament and told the church, listen to
Francis Collins. Get the jab, you idiots.
Rick Warren did the same thing. The editor in chief of
Christianity Today, Russell Moore, did the same thing.
This is one of the most evil menever.
And yet those are the people whotell us not to be political.

(54:21):
Zach Tim Keller would always saythis focus on the Kingdom.
It's neither left nor right. His focus on being neither left
nor right but just being about the Kingdom was so pervasively
effective on the evangelical mindset that it coined a term,
third way ISM, That came out of Tim Keller, the guy who was
called the CS Lewis of the 21st century.

(54:43):
How did Tim Keller's legacy end,by the way?
Let's talk about how his legacy ended.
OK, Here's how it ended. A year before he died, he was
segregating his congregation between the vaccinated and the
unvaccinated. If you walked in to what was it
called? Yeah.
If you if you walked into his church in New York City.

(55:05):
OK, And in 20/23/2022, you had to show whether you had the jab
or not. Yeah.
If you walked to Pastor Tim Keller's church, Redeemer
Presbyterian in New York City, in Manhattan, down the street
from Margaret Sanger, down the street from Greenwich Village,
where the homosexual movement was launched out of, where the

(55:25):
abortion movement was launched out of, and where the second
wave feminism was launched out of.
All of that came out of one freaking neighborhood in New
York City. Like talk about the demonic
legacy. Talk about the like, demonic
assignment and stronghold that is in New York City.
Like, how about preaching against that Pastor Tim?
How about like bringing the Kingdom of God into conflict
with the demonic ideologies thathave spawned out of your city?

(55:46):
No, a year before his death, maybe 18 months before his
death, he was checking to see whether you had the freaking jab
or not. And if you didn't have the jab,
go to the balcony and sit with the other unwashed masses.
If you have the jab, come up, sit up front.
That's how Tim Keller's legacy ended.
Zach. He was freaking segregating his

(56:08):
church and he taught Christians and the people.
Like, I go after Tim Keller probably more than any other,
like vocally more than any otherChristian in the culture war
space. And I get a lot of heat for it.
People's like, why? Why is Seth so obsessed with Tim
Keller? That's so freaking weird.
It's like, it's because you don't understand how pervasive
that influence was. Like the amount of pastors who
read his Book Center church. I read the whole thing.

(56:30):
OK, you know how you know how impactful that was in a new
generation of church planters who took Tim Keller's model for
bringing the gospel to the city and for becoming relevant?
Like, I like I, we could talk more about that, Zach, probably
for an hour. But like, people don't
understand actually how impactful Keller's discipleship
vision for church planning and cultural engagement was on the
next generation of pastors. And they ran with that.

(56:52):
And so they said, we're neither left nor right.
We just do the Kingdom. But the issues that you're
refusing to can tend on and get involved in are fundamentally
Genesis one through three issues.
Here's a tale of another man, his name's Charlie Kirk.
He gave the seed money for me tolaunch the White Rose
Resistance. And as a brother of mine, he did
the opposite of everything Tim Keller in the evangelical
mindset of the last 100 years, taught people to do.

(57:13):
He ran into all of the most divisive, hotly debated
political issues, quote UN quote.
Political Charlie didn't go viral because of his nuanced
commentary on the Steele dossier, although he was an
incredibly brilliant political mind.
Was that what he was known for? No, Why?
Why did Charlie Kirk become a household name?
Because he had courage, because he had testicular fortitude,
Because he went into all of the issues that the church wouldn't

(57:36):
and brought biblical clarity andalways brought it back to a
biblical worldview. And with his death came a level
of clarity as if the scales justfell off people's eyes.
And his death produced a ministry platform that that that
that produced the single largestevangelistic gospel proclamation
called to repentance to the largest watching audience in
human history. So who was more effective at

(57:57):
bringing the Kingdom of God to the culture?
Who is more effective at bringing people to Christ?
Who is more effective at creating curiosity and interest
in eternal things in the Father,in your Creator to come back to
the Garden through the the bloodof Jesus Christ?
Who is more impactful and and and and and and powerful in
shifting the American mindset back towards Christ, Tim Keller

(58:20):
or Charlie Kirk? I mean, I think everyone knows
who Charlie is, and a lot of my listeners don't even know who
Tim Keller is. Yeah, I mean, that answers that,
Jim. Keller and these people were the
people telling us how to do ministry, how to engage the
culture, stay away from these issues.
Cowardice. If you wed yourself to the

(58:41):
spirit of the age, you'll find yourself a widow in the next.
It's capitulation. It's like Lot in Sodom when the
angels come to torch that city, Zach and he takes him to his
own. Remember, Lot is at the city
gates in Genesis. So he's a Christian influencer
of his day. If you know anything about the
politics of that era, someone positioned at the city gates
would have been very culturally relevant, highly respected,

(59:02):
probably probably was invited toall the right parties.
And Lots takes the angels to hishome and then and then and then
and then what do they say? They say like, you know, hey,
bring that. He brings them to some of the
people from San Francisco. I'm sorry, from Sodom, come to
Lot's house and they say bring those men out.
We want to anally rape them on the sidewalk.

(59:23):
Well, they weren't men, They were angels.
And then Lot says, dear brothers, you know, it's the
first thing he says. He says, my brothers and testers
and like really quick talk abouttrying to appeal to the spirit
of the age. News flash, Lot, people who want
to anally rape angels are not your brothers and sisters
actually. So so you already see him doing
the Tim Keller, Russell Moore Christianity yesterday Gospel

(59:44):
Coalition appeal to the culture brothers and testers.
And then he says do not do this wicked and abominable thing.
So look like most of our cowardly Christians and woke
people today, they're willing tosometimes speak just a little
bit of truth to culture, but never enough to be a threat.
Tim Keller would have said he was pro-life.
I've heard of stories in in meetings and stuff where he said

(01:00:05):
he was pro-life. But you won't find a sermon
where he preached against it andcalled a child sacrifice.
I've looked through the Tim Keller sermon archives.
I could never find one. But like Tim Keller lot is
willing to speak some truth to culture and say don't don't do
that. The anally raping angels like
don't, don't do this, wicked. Good thing.
And what's the very next thing he says.
So let's let's let's walk through what just happened.
He calls people that want to anally rape angels, his brothers

(01:00:28):
and his sisters. Secondly, he says, can you not
do that though? Like it's kind of wicked?
And then the very next statementis here are my daughter's rape
them instead when a man of God was needed to be a bulwark from
evil and the next generation to to stand in the way of that

(01:00:48):
agenda. Rather than standing up and
being a man, he folds like a cheap suit and he hands over the
next generation on a silver platter to the demonically
inspired, demonically inspired sexually liberated sex cult and
says here, have your way with them.
Just remember to invite me to Davos.

(01:01:11):
Lot was invited to all the rightparties.
They liked him. It's the idol of cultural
respectability. But when you're needed not just
to say Jesus died, you should repent because he loves you.
OK, that's the gospel proclaimed.
What about the gospel lived out?You, you, you, you tithe your

(01:01:33):
mint and your cumin. But you've neglected the
weightier issues of the law. Justice and mercy speak up for
those who cannot speak for themselves.
God is never more pissed off in the Old Testament Act than when
he's responding to his people's involvement in sex cult worship
and child sacrifice. If you want to make an argument

(01:01:57):
of what makes God the most angry, I think I can say this
without overstating my case. It's weird sex cult stuff and
baby killing. All of the stuff going on in
Sodom and Lot is called the one righteous man.
The one dude who might be like able to withhold wickedness and

(01:02:19):
proclaim righteousness and protect the children, protect
the little ones that the culturehas a target on.
And when they show up to his door, like all of our
evangelical cowards and ministers today, he hands over
the next generation, says, here you go, here you go, have your
way with them. And so Lot's wife becomes in

(01:02:41):
death what he should have been in life, a pillar of salt.
Lot was saved, but he wasn't salty.
Tim Keller was probably saved, but he wasn't salty.
And So what is his? What is his testimony going to
be at the marriage supper of theLamb?
He was a registered Democrat in the state of New York, voted for

(01:03:04):
Democrats and segregated his congregation.
That's his legacy. Are you kidding me?
His legacy is to teach pastors, don't contend or preach against
the issues that the spirit of the age defines his political in
the 21st century because it'll distract you from the Great
Commission. My mentor, Doctor George Grant

(01:03:24):
says most of the problems in thechurch today are because we
start our gospel in John 316 andnot Genesis One.
We forgot our job description. The cultural mandate, and next
time I come on, we can do a whole hour on the cultural
mandate and why that demands that you be political, but we
don't have time for that. No, no worries, dude.

(01:03:45):
Thank you so much for for comingon.
Thanks so much for your time andyour thoughtfulness, your
passion. One last thing, we'll put up
your website and stuff when we launch this video.
Any kind of final words of how people can support you guys in
your mission and that kind of stuff?
Yeah, we're a digital media activism organization.
So we do movies, curriculum, courses, training.

(01:04:06):
We have a White Rose app, but we're an activism organization.
We have resistance chapters in states around the country
mobilizing the local church against these evils, not waiting
for politicians to do the work that the blood bought bride of
Christ is called to do. So I made a movie called The
1916 Project. You can go to the 1916
project.com. It's all of those receipts and
that disgusting legacy and hidden history of Planned

(01:04:26):
Parenthood and the sex cult revolutionaries of the 20th
century. The 1916 project.com The 1916
Project is streaming on Daily Wire Plus, but any church can
host a screening. Any church can host a screening
for their people by going to the1916.
Project.com and the book is called The 1916 Project, The
Lying, The Witch and The War We're In, the lying, the lion,

(01:04:49):
the Witch and the war we're In. And so that that is a a wealth
of resource. And then we have a conference in
DC the day before the March for life called Life or Death Con.
But everyone can just go to the White Rose dot life, The White
Rose dot Life to learn more about what we do.
Seth, thank you so much for taking the time and chatting
with us. It's, it's good to get to know
you a little bit better and, andhopefully we can chat again

(01:05:11):
soon. Yeah.
Thank you, bro. Appreciate you.
All right, have a great rest of your day.
Thank you guys for joining Ideological and we will see you
next time.