Just Say No To The DSO

Just Say No To The DSO

Dentistry is experiencing an attack by well-funded corporations who want to own the work of each dentist’s hands. While the promises of wealth and ease DSO’s present to owner-dentists appear enticing, experience shows the reality is very different. Just Say No to the DSO is a deep dive podcast for dentists in all stages of their career. It is especially for those who are looking at whether or not the option to sell to a DSO is the right choice. Our expert hosts, Bob Spiel, MBA and Nate Williams, CPA, CFP take listeners on a step by step journey through Season One laying out the realities of selling a practice to a DSO and why this isn't as good as it sounds, or the only option for successful dentists to have a thriving practice. Come and listen for the years of experience inside dentistry, as well as medicine, that have led to their logical arguments and stay for additional audience and listener feedback. Questions you’d like addressed live in future episodes can be sent to: questions@justsaynotothedso.com Let's start the discussion on how to save the future of the Dental Industry.

Episodes

Tumbling Down In a Pile of Lawsuits with Dr Mike Davis

July 6, 2026 • 24 mins
In this episode, Dr. Michael Davis discusses the pitfalls of DSO affiliations, legal settlements, and the importance of ethical practice in dentistry. He highlights recent cases like Aspen Dental's legal issues and offers advice for dentists considering partnerships.
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Did We Mention a House of Cards? with Dr Mike Davis

July 3, 2026 • 51 mins
This episode features Dr. Mike Davis discussing the complex financial restructuring of major DSOs like Dental Care Alliance and Affordable Care, revealing the risks for dentists and the industry. We explore the implications of private equity ownership, debt-for-equity swaps, and the future of dental practice investments.
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A Listener Case Study on Selling Your Practice

June 18, 2026 • 32 mins
As a dental professional, you may wonder about the implications of selling your practice to a DSO versus a private buyer. In this episode it's case study time as we delve into crucial insights on this topic, including tax considerations, the time value of money, and what it means for your practice.
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It All Starts Right Here with Dr. Brendan Gallagher

June 3, 2026 • 62 mins
We've looked at serveral dentists deep into their careers and gone over how a DSO doesn't really make sense...what about the doctor with all of the promise in the world on the very front of his career...does a DSO make sense there? In this episode, Brendan Gallagher, an oral surgeon and podcaster, shares insights on the impact of DSOs on dentistry, the importance of practice ownership, and strategies for young dentists to maximize ...
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Now, The DSO Will Make Your Equity...Disappear

May 12, 2026 • 25 mins
This episode exposes the realities behind DSO equity and why selling to a DSO often results in less financial benefit than expected. There is a magic trick all DSOs are trying to pull...the magically disappearing equity. Nate and Bob dissect the myths, true principles, and risks associated with DSO deals, empowering dentists to make informed decisions about their practice futures.
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Sometimes It Pays To Listen To Your Better Half with Dr Mike Crockett Part 2

May 1, 2026 • 44 mins
Starting a dental practice can be daunting, but with the right insights and support, it can also be incredibly rewarding. Mike and Christy Crockett, who have navigated the complex world of dentistry together, share their journey—from Mike’s schooling to their eventual ownership of a successful dental practice. In this post, you'll discover key lessons on building a practice, the importance of relationships in business, ...
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Sometimes It Pays To Listen To Your Better Half with Dr Mike Crockett Part 1

May 1, 2026 • 45 mins
Starting a dental practice can be daunting, but with the right insights and support, it can also be incredibly rewarding. Mike and Christy Crockett, who have navigated the complex world of dentistry together, share their journey—from Mike’s schooling to their eventual ownership of a successful dental practice. In this post, you'll discover key lessons on building a practice, the importance of relationships in business, ...
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Unmasking the DSO Deal: What Every Dentist Must Know

April 19, 2026 • 36 mins
This episode exposes the hidden truths behind DSO deals in dentistry, revealing how dentists are often financially fleeced through complex deal structures. Bob and Nate bring you their expert analysis to break down the mechanics of these deals, showing why saying no to DSOs is crucial for dentists' financial health.
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A Smooth Voice From the South With Dr Travis Nixon

April 14, 2026 • 56 mins
In this in-depth interview, a blue blooded Tar Heel, Dr. Travis Nixon shares his insights on the rise of DSOs, legislative challenges, and how dentists can protect their profession through education and advocacy. Not only does Dr Nixon have great insight into the current dentistry pipeline of practitioners, he also shares incredible insights into the business and structural changes of medicine and draws parallels to dentistry. You ...
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Who Works For Who? 6 DSO Tricks Most Dentists Don't See

March 27, 2026 • 25 mins
This episode explores the six fundamental principles that reveal why DSO deals are detrimental to dental practitioners. Hosts Bob and Nate dissect the realities of private equity models, emphasizing the importance of maintaining control, understanding the true value of your practice, and making informed decisions to protect your wealth and profession.
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Sage Wisdom is Hard to Come By These Days with Dr. Michael W. Davis

March 25, 2026 • 70 mins
summary
In this episode, Dr. Michael W. Davis shares critical insights into the private equity influence on dentistry, the risks of DSOs, and how dentists can protect their practices and patients. A must-listen for dental professionals concerned about industry integrity and patient care.

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Away Game with the Orthodontic Pearls Podcast and Nate Williams

March 17, 2026 • 87 mins
Nate sits down with the Orthodontic Pearls podcast in order to give his take on owning your own practice and why to stay away from selling out to PE and DSO groups. It's a full panel lineup with Drs. Chris Teeters, Andy Sarpotdar, and Brian Anderson.
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The Emperor Has No Clothes

March 12, 2026 • 33 mins
This episode features a candid discussion on the realities of DSOs in dentistry, highlighting industry failures, ethical concerns, and the importance of dentists making informed decisions about their practices. Hosts Bob Nate share insights, stories, and call for transparency and honesty among dental professionals. Bottom line...DSOs suck
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Right Up to the Edge and Back with Dr. Joe Feller

February 28, 2026 • 79 mins
In this conversation, Nate and Dr. Joe Feller discuss the complexities and challenges faced by orthodontists when considering selling their practices to DSOs. Dr. Feller shares his personal journey in orthodontics, his experiences with DSOs, and the reasons he ultimately decided against selling his practice. The discussion highlights the emotional and financial stakes involved in such decisions, the misleading nature of DSO promise...
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When Your Reputation Precedes You with Jonathan Martin

February 17, 2026 • 44 mins
In a conversation between two of the most soothing voices on the internet, Bob Spiel interviews Jonathan Martin, a CPA with extensive experience in dental transitions. They discuss the complexities of selling dental practices, the myths surrounding DSOs, and the importance of financial planning for dentists. Jonathan emphasizes that many dentists are not adequately prepared for retirement and often make significant financial d...
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A Conversation With The Dental Banker Bob Affleck

February 5, 2026 • 66 mins
In this conversation, Bob Affleck shares his extensive experience in the dental industry, discussing the implications of selling dental practices to DSOs. He highlights the challenges and regrets many dentists face after selling, particularly regarding autonomy and financial expectations. The discussion also covers the importance of leadership and business acumen for young dentists preparing them for practice ownership. Overall, th...
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Right Up to the Edge and Back with Dr. Blake Maxfield

January 14, 2026 • 65 mins
Nate sits down with Dr. Blake Maxfield on this amazing interview with a practicing doctor who went through the entire courting and recruitment process where he almost signed the dotted line for a DSO to purchase his practice. At the last minute, something didn't feel right and he backed out. Because he listened to his gut (and his wife) things are infinitely better in his life and current practice is booming.
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The Great Disappearing Trick: DSO Equity

January 7, 2026 • 22 mins
In this episode, hosts Bob and Nate delve into the myths surrounding DSOs, particularly focusing on the allure of DSO equity. They discuss the reality of ownership structures, the dilution of shares, and the potential pitfalls of believing in inflated equity promises. The conversation emphasizes the importance of maintaining control over one's practice and making informed decisions about practice transitions.
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When Are You The Partner...Or The One Being Taken Advantage Of With Dr. Maksim Montatskiy

December 10, 2025 • 40 mins
In this conversation, Dr. Maksim Montatskiy sits down with Bob and Nate to discuss the complexities of partnerships, particularly focusing on the value and decision-making dynamics involved. He expresses concerns about the nature of partnerships where he feels more like a paying associate than an equal partner, questioning the benefits and decision-making power he holds within these collaborations.

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Too Big to Sell: Myth vs Reality

November 14, 2025 • 25 mins
The conversation explores the myth surrounding the belief that dental practices are too large to sell to private buyers. It delves into the origins of this misconception and its impact on the dental community, emphasizing that size should not deter practice owners from considering private buyers.
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