June 14, 2023 • 45 mins
Barry Powless has made his mark in lacrosse on both sides of the border as a player, coach and manager in both the box and field versions of the game. While at Lafayette H.S. near Syracuse he was named a USLA High School All American. He went on to play attack at Syracuse University. After Syracuse he played in the 1980 World Lacrosse Championship and won the Silver Medal as part of the Can-Am Warriors squad in Vancouver. After getting a taste of West Coast life he would play for the next decade in the Vanocuver area. In 1981 he would play and star for both the North Shoe Indians and the New Westminster Salmonbellies who would win the Mann Cup. In 1984 he captured a Presidents Cup with the North Shore Indians. He would join the Vancouver Burrards and the Coquitlam Adanacs during that time.He even made his mark in Field Lacrosse playing for the Vancouver Field Lacrosse Club and won a Provincial Championship and made the All-Star Team. In 1990 he would head back east and he helped propel the Fergus Thistles to a Presidents Cup Championship. That same year Powless played for the inaugural Iroquois National team in the World Championships in Perth, Australia. In 1992 he was picked up by the Buffalo Bandits and would win an MILL Championship. Powless would play at the Senior B level until his retirement at the advanced age of 50 years! This lengthy career brought him many honours including induction into the Ontario Lacross Hall of Fame in 1999, US Lacrosse Upstate New York Chapter Hall of Fame in 2015, the Akwesasne Lacrosse Hall of Fame in 2018, and the Canadian Lacrosse Hall of Fame in 2021 as a member of the Salmonbellies Organization . His coaching and managing endeavours included Head Coach of the MLL Rochester Knighthawks from 1995-1997, VP of Lacrosse Operations for the NLL from 2000-2002 and Assistant Coach for the Iroquois 2003 World Indoor Finalists. Barry Powless Jr. Has done just about everything a lacrosse person can do!
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Episode Transcript
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(00:07):
Barry Pablos. And I was bornin Syracuse, New York, and my
birthday is April late nineteen fifty seven, m sixty five years old. What
nation are you. I'm from theOnondaga Nation. Yeah, located just south
of Syracuse, New York. Andyou have one of the greatest stick makers
in the world. Oh, yes, healthy jobs. Yeah. I actually
(00:29):
have a stick from his father.He used to I used to get Louis
Yeah, yeah, Jacks. Yeah. Who was the first person who introduced
you to the game? While thatwould have to have been my dad.
Um, we have, I guessto come from a La Cross family.
My great grandfather, Welcome Paul wasplayed until he was sixty years old.
(00:51):
He dressed for games. His son, my grandfather, Irving Paul, was
senior, played in the Old ProLeague in the nineteen thirty six. Yeah,
there was a New York state.Yeah, he was one of their
stars. Yeah. And then mydad he'd played until he was forty.
But as a family, we wouldgo to all his games. We would
(01:12):
travel to all his away games,so in introduction to the game was always
there. In fact, when Igot my first lacrosse stick, my dad
took me up to the old Chisholmfactory. And I remember going through that
factory. That was awesome. Imean there was sticks galore there, right,
(01:34):
So that's when I first got myfirst my own Stickho was ten years
old. And since then i'd gowith practices with my dad, you know,
I'd run with the team and everythingso and would have luck, would
have it. I think about thirteenyears old, we're at away game and
playing the Senecas had a Saturday nitegame and then a Sunday afternoon game.
(01:56):
Not many of the players showed upfor the Sunday afternoon game. There was
only four runners and a goalie.So my dad asked my mother got permission
to say, you know, canbury dress? I was thirteen. Oh
wow, yeah, So she reluctantlysaid yes, And so I put the
pads on the gloves came up tohear it, right because they heard those
(02:17):
little gloves, and uh yeah.I went out there, and so my
dad told me, he says,just stand at center. We'll play four
on four. When we get thebab we'll throw the ball up to you,
you know, and hopefully can godown and score. So that went
on for about five six offensive shifts. Right, and the goalie would save
it. The fans or are kindof they're laughing because they loving it little
(02:39):
this little guy running down. Butit was all good until I scored,
and so then after that they keptdrifting a guy back to Eventually they were
playing five four on four the restof the game and we actually won the
game. Where was that game playthat was in um Well with Cattaraugus against
the Pinewoods men's team. Okay,so this was an outdoor box. It
(03:01):
wasn't. Yeah, most of theteams played outdoor. That was in the
old North American Lacrosse Association and aLAY and a LA. So I know
Kevin Alexander I interviewed at one pointand he was the same thing. He
got brought in like as a thirteenyear old. Yeah, and what you
know for both of you, whateverway to start and after I scored,
(03:24):
remember getting hit after and because Iactually know it was a threat and it
was like the scarecrow, like mygloves were over there, my shoes over
here, and I wore glasses.My glasses were over there, right,
and there was no you know,there was no quarters given, right,
so now whatever, yeah, scoringwell, yeah, whatever, you want.
Yeah, everything, Yeah, wellthat's something. Yeah, you must
(03:47):
have played the outdoor box and owna dog. I've been there and oh
yes, yes, well in ninetywell that's where I actually played. And
then when Louis Jack was coaching,they moved out the team to Syracuse War
Memorial, so they would go backand forth. And when I was coming
up, they practiced on outside box. They had lights and everything, and
(04:09):
that was the place to be,you know, during Tuesday, Wednesdays and
Thursdays was down at the box andwatch the boys go at it. I
mean there were fights and everything else. They were so competitive, yeah,
you know, and it was agathering place for all the community. Everybody
had their favorite spot to stand.My grandmother and my mother's side, her
(04:32):
name was Mabel. She would havethere one spot in the shade that she
would always stand and she would haveher pencil and she would mark the score
down because that was before they hadlike a scoreboard up there and so and
you could see her her pencil marks, you know, for each game.
You know. Wow. Yeah,And that area has been the ball field,
(04:56):
the ball field area right forever rightfor do right and the great uh
Seneca prophet. Yeah, I hadsome lake pants of lake. Yeah,
I've been by his. He's likethe only stone right grave I've ever seen.
Yeah, you know, is rightthere and I've seen that. Yeah.
And before he passed away, heactually the Onondagas they played a game
(05:19):
of lacrosse and US benefited when amedicine medicine game, right and he Uh.
Then before twenty fifteen, they builta beautiful new radar right near there
as well, you know, whichis from what people tell me, gets
used all the time. Oh yeah, Yeah. It's a multi support facilities,
so they don't have like volleyball inthere, you know, in different
(05:42):
events. And actually I think they'regoing to have some NLL teams in there,
um before the season starts, right, Yeah, I read that,
and I think he's going to seesome teams come. Yeah they did that,
like yeah, that just happened.Yeah, that just happened. Yeah.
So, which is good, youknow, give the you know,
exposure to the different uh you know, native communities, which is great.
(06:03):
Yeah, that's a great thing todo. And I went down to the
new facility that was built and peoplewere throwing the ball around at like eleven
at night. Yeah. There,the lights were on. Yeah, and
you know I just go yeah,yeah, getting some good use here,
you know. Yeah, that oldbox there, that the outside one.
(06:23):
I spent countless hours, you knowwhen I was growing up, hot summer
evenings, just my or days,just myself and lacrosse ball and you know,
throwing the balls then that trying tomimic the shots that I had seen
or or different shots that my dadwould tell me, you know, and
and just over and over and over, you know. So it was either
that then would go home. Wehad a a porch on our trailer and
(06:46):
my dad had spray painted a thegoal on it, right, so they
always knew where I was because theyalways could hear the thumb thumb. Well
that's why you Yeah, you achievedwhat you've achieved. We were diligent,
Yeah, you know the game youknow. And um, I remember in
other stories as we talk, agood friend, Alfie Jacks, you know,
(07:10):
is right down the road from thatoutdoor right box, and rain lines
is right across. And did didyou get to go to Alfie's workshop over
the years? Oh yeah, Well, as I mentioned, my first stick
when I was playing high school acrossum, his dad made that stick for
(07:31):
me Louis. Yes, and soI would go there and you know,
watch pick out a frame building,same building, it was, same building.
Yeah, pick out a frame,you know, and he would finish
it off and he had net it. So I'd watched everything that he would,
you know, that you were doing. And I come to a point,
even when I moved away out west, you know, i'd get some
cat gut from from Alfie and Itake it with me because you know,
(07:54):
I could string the whole names.Yeah. Yeah, But I remember one
time the I was there getting thestick from from Louie when I was going
to a shoe and seventy six.That was my freshman year. Yeah,
and that was the time when thesuper Light two just came out too,
right, So I remember we gottwo super Light twos and I had my
(08:16):
new stick that that Louis made.Right. But while I was there,
I was just wandered around his workshopand there was his box off to the
side, big box. So Iremember going over there because I said Boston
Bolts, and I said, Ididn't know that Louis Louie was involved with
the Boston Bolts, maybe like amanager. Because there was all kinds of
(08:37):
pads in there. They had thefibers in there, they had gloves,
so I just randomly picked up apair of gloves and I had wolf on
on there. You know, whowould have known? You know, years
later he'd beat my coach in Coquitlamor one of the coaches. Yeah really,
yes, yeah, he would coachwith Frankie Nielson. You know that
those things don't happen by acts,right, That's amazing, Yeah, that's
(09:03):
amazing. And now was there apalace that played at Syracuse before you got
there? I'm not too sure,right, because none of our relatives that
I that I know went to Syracuse. Okay, yeah, okay, so
well we had uh, there wasOliver Hill, he was there. He
(09:24):
Oliver Hill. Yeah really he playedat Shoe Yeah that would have been yeah,
right, yeah, that would havebeen Ron Hill, Ron Hill,
Yeah he played there. Yeah.And then you had the doctors, Ron
and Laverne doctor. Okay, yeah, I remember going down there and watching.
But probably my senior year in highschool, gentleman by name is Jett
(09:45):
Smith. He was their big attackmentdown there, right, and then my
freshman year, um it was hissenior year and I don't I don't know,
we played in Cortland or or thehost of them. But I was
like, wow, playing against JohnSmith, you have to play. Yeah.
Yeah. And O'Hara's bj O'Hara.You know he went at Hobart.
Yeah. Yeah, those are thetype of players you know, Daddy watched
(10:07):
coming up. You always wanted toplay, you know, Division one.
My dad took me to shoes gameand my grandfather he would we would go
together and watch the Lafayette games tohigh school, watched the local high school
games. And he was a manof a few words, but he'd sit
there and he had this little chucklefor different plays that he would see meal
(10:28):
Misq's right, you know. Andand I never knew that he played pro.
He never said anything wow until reallyyeah, until me and my cousin
were helping him build a log cabinrestore one. And when it's all done,
he put this picture up of himselfthat was taken in thirty six and
he was using a left handed stick. He was a lefty and it was
(10:50):
a left handed stick. And Ilooked at it and I said, grandpa's
this you and he goes yeah.So then he started telling me stories about
Yeah, yeah, now was thatthe league that played like in Geneva,
Rochester, You like you made MornellYeah, right, right, because more
Lions told me stories about him goingto watch his dad play, and he
(11:15):
loved going to Geneva because they couldgo for spaghetti dinner. Yeah, in
New York it was a big dealan Italian restaurant. Yeah, because my
grandpa played first for the Rochester Sonicbecause I believe they were called and then
he played for Syracuse Red Devils,okay, and they played right across the
Buffalo. They were pro right inGeneva, New York. I always heard
(11:37):
from another side, the Crouch family, you know, from the Simmons crowds
right their their dad used to tellme because I played with all three of
the boys, two of them atHobart one out in Orange County. Oh
you know, I played with allthree of them at some point. They
used to tell me that the bloodused to be just flowing from the chicken
(11:58):
wires that always on the armory floor, the floor in Geneva, right,
you know that was the So thatmust have been quite something. Oh yeah,
that was the Winter League. BecauseI remember talking to Cap about that
at about my grandfather playing, andhe kept says he remembers his dad coming
back because he's the guys from sixthNations they played for Hornell. Okay,
(12:22):
so he remember roughly roughly I thinkthat's in between Rochester and Buffalo, like
the Southern co Yeah, okay,but he remembers the door opening. You
know, i'd say two three inthe morning, right, you know,
the snow, the winds coming in. You hear the laughter from the car,
right, we'll see you next week. You know. They loved it.
Yeah, let's say the old WinterLeague back then, Yell Adventure,
(12:45):
Yeah, to do that and yeah. Yeah. When did they build the
new arena where the Natoga Redbirds play? That play out of now and oh
that was in two thousand and one, I believe. Okay, so you
were well passed. Yeah. Actuallythe I was the first coach, you
know, for them, because wechanged our name from the On a Dog
(13:09):
Athletic Club OWAC to On a DogRed Hawks Red Hawks. Yeah, red
Hawks. Yeah, and it wasRed Hawks. No, it's Red Hawks.
Yeah. That's changed it too.Yeah. Yeah. And so then
then my job took me to liveout in Western New York. And so
that was the last time I wasbasically affiliate with you know, with with
(13:30):
coaching the team. Right, sookay, okay, well let's get into
a little bit of your background asa player. You played high school.
What high school did you let be? Lafayette High School? Okay, right?
Healthy? Travis Cook? Travis Cookright too, Yeah, he came.
They invited him down. I thinkthey're related, but u El not
(13:52):
Elfie Louis invited him down and togo to school at Lafayette. Okay,
yeah, so Travis Laffiette as alaunch standing name. Yeah, I think
it was sixty two was their firstseason in lacrosse. But my yeah,
my senior year seventy five, Iwas a high school All American that which
is really yeah saying something you know, and then you you went to he
(14:16):
played attack at Syracuse. Yes,who were some of your attack teammates?
Well, we had well in myhigh school teammate, Uh, Larry Storier.
Uh he went to Syracuse. Uh, there was a Tim O'Hara,
Oh yeah, he was there.We ran attack and then there was a
(14:37):
um freaking his name it was fromJames wild DeWitt from that all that area.
Because when we actually started, uhin well in seventy seventy six when
we went to a Shoe. Therewas a big recruitment by Simmons to keep
a lot of the local talent,you know, in Syracuse instead of it
going all over um like Donahue.Remember desk Go desk Goo was was a
(15:01):
freshman, you know the first yearI went in and there was a UNI
she was a big midi defenseman.Okay, yeah, yeah, So there
was quite a few of us,you know that played high school against one
another, you know in Central NewYork, came together. It came together
as you team. Yeah, youwon the North American Lacrosse Association Championship oac
(15:24):
IS when you were with them.Yeah, that was actually the last year
of that na LA. That wasseventy six, seventy eight, I believe.
And then because the following year that'swhen the Canam League was born.
Okay, right, okay, thenyou went to Cornwall and played as well.
Right. Yeah. What happened isactually I have to credit Louis Jocks
(15:46):
for that because his friend Benedict FrankBennedict came down, okay, and they
were talking and they said, asanybody here that you know could help with
our our junior team, Knuckle Sasine, and so Louis gave Frank my my
name, and so Frank came tothe house and we were talking. And
(16:07):
at the time, I was goingto go school, uh in the fall,
but looking for you know, somaybe work whatever in the summer.
So he said, well, youcan come up. You can work at
the factory because he was running thelacrostic factor at that point, yeah,
at the round point one, right, and you can play it with our
team. So I would, Iwould spend my summers up in Nucky Sasine.
He played up there. Oh reallyyeah, Okay, he played in
(16:30):
the first ever World Box Championships thatwas kind of the predecessor to the World
Indoor Lacrosse, right, right,and I've met it. We've done a
story actually on that whole right,Yeah, I saw that. Yeah,
it's very good. Yeah, whichyou know, again trying to get capture
that one, right. Yeah.That nineteen eighty tournament was a eye opening
(16:53):
tournament for a lot of us becauseyou know, we're playing at different nations,
you know, Tusk Grower of SenecasMohawks, right, and then when
we came together out in British Columbia, we actually went to see a Victoria
and Coquitlam game. This is beforethe tournament started, right, and I
think all of us were amazed atthe level of play that was there,
(17:18):
right, and we're like right,and we're like, this is the type
of lacrosse that's there. And Iwas like, you know, how how
do I get into this? Youknow? And that team the North American
Native team, right, Squamish players. It was a lot of guys from
back east, right, but thenthe Squamish joined as well. So yeah,
the way they set it up,we made a team, uh,
(17:41):
and then initial team of twenty threeguys. Then we went out in the
West Coast. We knew we'd bepicking up at least six players, you
know from North Shore, so wehad we had two games against each other
and you had to make then thefinal squad. Yeah. Out of that
workout was forming that team. We'repeople appointed problem. Well, yeah,
we had guys that didn't make theteam. You know. We had one
(18:03):
guy just took off to see relativesin Seattle. You see you later deal,
right, But it was it wasa great Um. I would just
say, uh, looking at thattype of lacrosse out there, right and
playing in the final was like eightthousand people, most ever played it at
that time at the Pacific Coliseum,you know where the Canucks played. You
(18:26):
know that the north Shore people hadthe drums going, you know, it
was it was an amazing atmosphere andyour team did very well. Yeah,
we actually were hit four two atend of the first period, right you
know, and then uh didn't goour away at the end, but you
know, we hung right in there. I think of sixteen level playing.
You know, we're playing Coquitlam becausewhat they did they put the first team
(18:51):
Canada West was represented by the whoeverwas in first place by that time,
saying with the East. So youhad Brooklyn in there and you had Coquitlam.
Yeah, yeah, yes, yeah, that's right. And then you
actually went back in eighty one rightto play for the seven Bellis. Well
what happened is that again that nineteeneighty tournament was like a mild mark for
(19:11):
me, right that I got recruitedto go back to play for First north
Shore and under the premise that FrankBaker he was going to build to win
the President's Cup and then petition tothe WLA to go into the w LA.
So I said, great, youknow, all goal play Senior B.
(19:32):
The next year will goal play SeniorA. But we came in third
at the President's Cup. I wonthe MVP of the of the President's Cup.
But during that summer we were affiliatedwith New West, so we would
play up with New West, soyou were allowed to play, right,
So I mean yeah, so thenine Cup, so we came back.
Yeah, there was two of us, Jeff Gale and myself. They picked
(19:53):
up. So we played in gamefour against Brooklyn, which is a real
Yeah, and you played at Queen'sPart, Queen's Park on the wood floors
ground. It was Wayne Wayne Gosse'slast game he ever played, is that
right? Yeah? Right? Andthen the following year I played. I
played full time with the Bellies,right, and Wayne was the coach.
(20:15):
He started out as the coach thathe had that exit accident. Yeah,
I saw Wayne just when I wasat my inductions watching. Yeah that I
just saw him and I had bigchoose to fill because I actually I took
his spot on the power play.Wow. Yeah, people be lucky to
go. Yeah, yeah, youknow. Yeah, he told me once
he goes Barry, you don't haveto shoot so hard. And he goes
(20:37):
tried the bount shot. I guessthat was his favorite shot. Yeah,
so I incorporate the bount shot andthere because the way he got Wayne Goss,
you got try the bump shot.You know better try to um.
So then we go You're you're playingkind of for the North Shore Indians and
eighty four right. Yeah, andso you spent a lot of time west
(21:00):
Over Yeah the summers, like,well, I was out I lived out
there for ten years. Oh youdid? Yeah? Okay, yeah,
okay, you lived out there,you're out there. No. Actually the
first year that we I drove outwith a friend from Seneca and Jeff gill
As we're coming through the Rocky Mountains. It's April, so everything's gray,
(21:25):
right, Ye. So we comedown the mountains into the uh the valley,
right and it no no, noBC right. Yeah, and it's
like the odds, you know,the cherry trees or bloom. Everything's green
and flowers. You know, it'slike somethinghere, ye where are? Yeah?
It was awesome and we'll jump aheada little bit. Sure, but
(21:52):
you came back and played for Fergusin nineteen ninety. Yeah, Well what
happened is when I was with theBelly Uh Bellies and Fergus were like the
two oldest lacrosse clubs in Canada,and so they wanted to Yeah, so
they wanted to have a a competition. They call it the Pioneer Cup.
(22:17):
And so the first I think theydon't only get it once, it wasn't
It was in Fergus. So that'swhen I went met Mac Mason, right,
had a contact there. Didn't knowi'd play be playing for Fergus after
that, you know, since becausethat was in ninety two they had the
Pioneer Cup. So when I movedback, I heard that uh, Fergus
would be hosting, right, SoI called macup and I asked if they're
(22:41):
looking for any left hand left handerson it on these team? He said,
sure, come on up. Yeah, that's the great thing about the
sport. Yeah, yeah, alot of experience. Fergus is a nice
little town. They had this onerestaurant called Mike's Burgers I believe it was
called. It was just a greasyspoon, but they put all the team
pictures up there they had won andyeah for the yeah place, right,
(23:06):
So they said, well hopefully ifyou guys went in ninety I'll get your
team picture at Mike. Yeah,yeah, you know the paces, right,
yeah yeah, And after they won, they had a parade, were
fire trucks and all, you know, so it was awesome, pretty cool.
Yeah. And then you I'm lookinghere and then you you played nineteen
(23:26):
ninety in Perth for your national team, right now, the that was the
first your national team that was allowedto play in the World Games. Yeah,
so that was a big deal,you know, for their organization.
And there was only two of usthat had played in eighty that made the
ninety team. That was David Bray. He's Seneca. He went to Cornell.
(23:52):
Yeah. Yeah, So we ranon the same line in eighty in
the box tournament, and we ranon the same midfield line in ninety.
How old were you, guys?I was let's see here, ninety.
I would have been thirty thirty two, and he was he was thirty year
older. He's like thirty three.Wow, you guys are still pumping it
out. Yeah, Like it's notthat uncommon now to see guys in their
(24:14):
late thirties playing in NLL. Butright, that's the offense defense part.
There's stress and right, right,the nineteen ninety one Buffalo Renegades, your
first overall pick and you played forthem. Yeah. That was a that
was the Canadian version of the NLL. And now they lasted one year.
There was four clubs in that ohokay, okay. Then the next year,
(24:38):
the next year the Bandits Bandits,yeah they were They came on like
Gangbusters. Oh yeah and everything.Yeah. Right from the beginning, well
at the old odds, what theyhad like sixteen thousand and so what I
learned later, um, is thatthe management of the Sabers gave the same
(25:00):
uh percentage of UM income to thesalespeople. So they said, well,
you sell these tickets, we're goingto give you a sale the same commission.
Okay. So they went out andsold at Gangbusters smart. Yeah.
Yeah. So it wasn't like aneight game season, right, whole game
season for home games home. Sothe crowd started like, uh like maybe
(25:25):
six thousand, then it went eightand then it went sixty. Yeah help,
Yeah was Less Bartley. Less Bartleywas the hit coach, him,
him and me Radian I was yeah, I was involved with them with the
Toronto Rock when we go okay,yeah, yeah, I know what the
power that Less had in Johnny isjust always right, promoting and right,
(25:48):
you know, and two great peopletoo. Oh yeah, yeah, it's
a great organization. Yeah. SoI was, you know again it was
on what I was that thirty threethen, so I was on the tail
end of my you know, howwould you say prime right, Yeah,
so I was lucky to, uhfor it's very fortunate to get on to
experience that well. Yeah, becausein seventy four seventy five when I was
(26:11):
I was playing junior um. Afterour practices would get in the car of
Mike Benedick and he would run upto Montreal to watch Ernie Davis play.
I mean Ernie and Mitchell play,right, Yeah, Ernie Mitchell goalie.
Yeah, it was the goalie.John Bishop was, yeah, coach,
yeah, and I think I wasn'tuh Davis? Was he still playing John
(26:32):
David? I think he was,yeah, Yeah, you know which was
right? Legends right, because youknow, any whatever sport you play,
and if you have an opportunity toplay pro, right, whatever level of
course you do anything, you doit right. Yeah, just the experience.
Yeah, yeah. So how longdid you play in the new NLL.
How long did you play there?That was just you know, just
(26:53):
the initial year that first. Yeah, and there got a year in there,
right, you know, experienced it, and then um um three years
later, the Rochester Nighthawks came along, right, and so I was able
to uh interview for that position,okay, and that's when I became to
hit. The coach for Rochester hadto be very yeah, pepul and right,
(27:18):
they didn't have as big a buildingto fill. They did a good
job, right, They only hitsix thousand initially. Then he added on
after that, I think they're atnine thousand, and so let's let's jump
like amazing playing career, and we'llget into some of the honors for that
a little bit later. But thecoaching and at midside, talk about a
(27:40):
few highlights in your whole lacrosse careeraround that side, you know. Yeah.
Well, actually my first coaching experiencewas in James will Do It,
which is a little suburb of Syracuseas a modified assistant coach. I did
that for two years, and thenI got an opportunity to be the hit
(28:00):
coach with Lafayette as they're modified,was that for two years. That would
be seventh and eighth grade, okay, okay, and so the fam that
my third year, I was askedto be the hit coach for the for
the Lafayette High School team, thevarsity. Yeah. So I did that
(28:21):
for three years, and I hadan opportunity to coach my youngest brother,
Neil, his junior and senior year. Yeah yeah, yeah, and then
um that led to ninety ninety three, our nation had a team in the
Iroquois Lacrosse Association because at that timenot many communities had lacrosse. For whatever
(28:45):
reason, there was no men's lacrosse. Some weren't playing for like three or
four or something even five years.There was no teams that at Onondaga there
was no teams for five years.Yeah. So in ninety three they formed
the Year Coil Lacrosse Association and Iwas like a player assistant coach with them
(29:07):
the first year and then I'd belike a player coach after that with them.
And we did that for and weactually well to BC that very first
year. We won the league andwe had like an all star because we
were classified like Senior C so wecould pick up players from all over the
league. Because it was our firstyear coming into the c LA as a
(29:30):
as an association. Okay, youknow, as a high school kid.
I'm from Saskatchewan, but I grewup in Long Island and I was Canada's
only field player at one point fieldplayer. Oh yeah, yeah, it
was the only one. And Ididn't even know I was Canadian anymore now.
(29:51):
So and then I got then Igot a phone call out of the
blue and saying, would you beinterested in h interviewing for the head coach
for this new expansion team we're havingin Rochester. And so I said the
Nighthawks, And I said, whysure, So I interviewed, and then
they got a call from the RussKlein and he was partnered with Fitch I
(30:17):
believe his last name Fritz, FritzFritz, Yes, And they said,
you know, you know, weselected you to be the head coach,
you know, for Rochester. Sothat was yeah. So I coached Rochester
for three years. Right now,that was crazy because I had players pressure
well yeah, but I had youknow, we had an open tryout,
(30:40):
so as I described it, wehad players of all kinds of shapes and
conditions and experience showing up, youknow, everybody, everybody, right,
and we whittled it down and uh, we had a good nucleus of field
players and some native players. Wegot some well at that time, you
(31:02):
could have five Canadian players on yourroster, okay, so I know Dietrich
was one of them. Lemon wasanother one. Um, you'd just go
yeah, and I think Peter Parkwas there first year, okay, and
uh, there was one other Iforget, but just before this season.
(31:25):
That was nineteen ninety five, okay. And at the time the year before,
Paul and Gary were playing for Philly. But apparently Gary, you know,
Paul petitioned the league to say,well I live in Syracuse. It'd
be a lot easier for me ifI played for Rochester. So they moved
him to Rochester. So they madeus a legitimate contender right off the bed.
(31:47):
Yeah. And Rochester did a greatjob yeah as an organization. Yeah,
well yeah, because they were affiliatedwith the with the Americans right in
Rochester Americans. Yeah, so itwas a good fit there because everything was
in place. A yeah, theyhad they had a central administration. Yeah,
both teams, right, they actuallybrought a field team in at some
point, right, right. Wepracticed at the old Armory in Rochester,
(32:15):
and you know, we had ourearly I would just say struggles coming together,
you know, because we had arewas very diverse as far as the
indoor experience. The food players hadnone, right, But we had some
big game it is, right,So you're trying to look for the most
aggressive type of field players, right, and but we I think we finished
(32:39):
four and four uh in the regularseason, and then we beat Boston and
then we went to the final againstPhilly. Now, at that time,
you hosted a game by attendance,so we had no chance of hosting any
playoff game. So all our gamesare on the road. And so we
(33:00):
played Philly and Philly for the finalon my birthdate in April, and we
lost in overtime. Wow yeah,wow, that was but it was great
experience though, right, yeah,yeah, Okay. So who was the
best field player adapting to the boxgame during that time, like that three
(33:22):
years that you had, Well,we had Tim Soudan was from Rochester,
right, He went to U massright and he came aboard. Um,
we had met writer from Syracuse.He was all American. Okay, Yeah,
he adapted well, right, Andand there was a couple other Reggie
(33:43):
Thorpe Okay, he played defense,you know for Shoe And I remember going
to his apartment because he was justcoming graduated from Shoe and I've knocked on
his door and I introduced myself andI said to be interested, to see
if you're if you're interested in comingplaying defense for this new pro team in
(34:04):
Rochester. And he goes, wheredo I sign everybody? Yeah? Yeah,
yeah, you know so. Butwe had a good group of uh,
collegiate guys that came in, youknow, and they had to obviously
learned the game, and the biggestthing was teaching them you just can't throw
the ball from all kinds of crazyangles, right because if the goalie is
(34:27):
actually a halfway decent goaltender, you'rejust going to hit them. They'll never
beat them. Yeah, that's right. But everything sort of came together.
The second year we lost in theSemis, and then the third year,
my last year, we beat Buffaloin Buffalo. Wow, for the championship.
It sold out like nineteen thousand,crazy five. Yeah, it was.
(34:49):
It was that adrenaline rush that youwhen you get right, there's no
other feeling in the world. Yeah, when you when you full house,
full house, Yeah, good cuppetition, Oh yeah together and it's pretty
yeah, yeah, that's amazing.Well, let's look at some of the
awards that you've won over time,and you would comment on those and Ontario
(35:15):
Lacrosse Hall of Fame Player category innineteen ninety nine, which is a real
honor. There's you know, somegreat you're in the place right now,
right, A lot of great playersinducted over the years into this place.
Yeah. I remember getting the phonecall and at the time I was doing
sales outside sales and all the restof my appointments. I had this big
(35:37):
grin on my feather. I mean, I never what as a player,
you never think of that's the ultimategoal, right, I want to be
in the Hall of Fame or anythinglike that, right, Yeah, but
it was quite quite an honor.You know, I'm so humble to be
amongst and considered with all these greatgreat athletes and lacrosse players you know in
(35:57):
this hall. Oh yeah, thenwill jump over like your Greater Syracuse Sports
Hall of Fame uh US Lacrosse UpstateNew York chapter, which is a big
deal. Again, Oh yeah,the power of that area, right,
you know, there's amazing players comingup. The year I was inducted with
the Greater Syracuse Sports was the sameyear that Gary Gate was also inducted.
(36:21):
Okay, so right, that wasquite. That was that was quite you
know, to be you know,in that that presence. You know,
that's the same class. I wentback to see their their Hall of Fame
exhibit and my I gave them astick from um from field across my high
school stick and it was in thesame case. It's the same case as
(36:43):
Jim Brown. So I said,well, it's pretty good company. It's
pretty good company, you know,being from Onondaga. The stories of Jim
Brown coming down with Oren, youknow, to play in the outdoor box
right right. And I always tryto remember the name of the guy who's
a little one hundred and fifty poundguy who's claimed to fame. Was he
took Jim Brown down twice with ahipcheck. And do you remember the name
(37:07):
of that fellow, that fellow taughtme how to take a cross check when
I was ten years old? Thatwas my father, That that was your
dad, that was my dad.I'm so glad I asked that question,
yeah, because I remember hearing that. It was just like he had the
perfect hip check. And yeah,obviously Jimmy Brown was all power. Oh
(37:30):
yeah, and so if you hadto do it right, or you're gonna
be freight trade. Well, mydad taught me how to take a cross
check. He also taught me howto deliver the hip check right because it
was legal back in those days,and he learned it from his father.
Is that right? Yeah? Sothis was a family a family trade the
(37:51):
hip check and you're hitting your theplayer in this area here. You know
you're not bending over anything, You'reactually throwing your hip into them. That's
how you deliver it. So whathappened that was my father, my grandfather
was coaching the Onnadaga team, JimBrown, and Range was their senior year
in fifty seven, so they allowedhim to play lacrosse his last year.
(38:14):
So Range asked Jim, well,wouldn't it be great to come down and
as a fundraiser for our club ona dog and play with us against the
Mohawks. So they set it allup, right, They get a call
say the game is going to belike a two clock in the Sunday afternoon.
No Mohawks, they didn't show.Oh here comes Jim Brown rolls in
and he's Cadillac. Everybody's there.Tickets were sold, right, so like,
(38:36):
what are we gonna do? Souse. Yeah, yeah, that's what
they're saying that. Yeah. Soand they the box was just below Louie
Jocks's house. Yeah right, andthat's where he shop is. That's where
the box was why the boys played. Yeah, So what they said is
(38:57):
we'll split the team up in twoand Well and Jim will go on one
team. Jim was on the otherteam. Orn and my dad were on
another team. Okay, So,as my dad told the story, he
never saw a player adapt that playedjust predominantly feel adapt so quickly to the
physical game of the of the box. He goes, there was a ball
(39:17):
in the corner. He went inthere and the scrum he come out with
the ball, you know, withhis speed, he just outlegged everybody.
He goes. I was staying atcenter and Orn was in the net.
Now Orn and my dad are juniors, so back then they would call one
another sonny, Sonny irv sonny Orn. So Orn yelled to my dad,
get him Sonny, right. Somy dad staying there sizing up Jim Brown
(39:43):
running down the ball. And nowJim Brown saw was one hundred forty pound
man staying They're all just run byhim, right, So my dad timed
his feet and he delivered the hipcheck and he hit Brown. My dad
said, I was like hitting anoak tree. He was that solid.
People that watch the game, allthey saw was legs like this and when
(40:04):
he hit there was a cloud ofdust where Brown hit another little for my
dad hit Bob rolled out. Yeah, my dad was okay. They said,
five minutes on the in the boxplaying lacrosse and Jim Brown's laying on
laying in the ground. Wow.Yeah. So my dad's best body who
(40:27):
his name was Bob Venerables, whoteaches um UH the Native American program at
Cornell. He's retired now, butVenerables was in New York City and there
was this book signing by Jim Brown. So he bought a book and he
and Venerables knew the story right.So he gets up to the table and
Jim Brown says, okay, wantingto put it sign your book your name.
(40:50):
So when Bob gives him his name, he goes, I got a
question for you. He goes,is it true that you were knocked down
by Chief Vernie Paulo because my father'sone of our traditional leaders by Chief Evoring
Polos and a lacrosse game at ona daga. And now you can imagine
what Brown's going through because this Perissona, I've never been knocked down on a
(41:13):
lacrosse field a game, right,And so if eyes and ears are looking
at him, and he Venerable sayshe Brown slowly lifted his eyes and he
looked at him. He goes ChiefPoulos as an honorable man. If he
said that happened, it probably happened. Yeah, So, Bob Venerables,
(41:36):
that's good enough for me. Youknow, that's the only story about a
check that you know, everybody talksabout big hits, you, right,
but that's the one that's probably thegranddaddy of the ball. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah. And then mydad was telling me that after after
the game, he wanted to knowwho he hit him, So he asked,
(41:57):
Ran, but who was that littlemosquito that hit me? Because my
dad owned late one hundred and thirtyfive or forty com Soca went yeah,
yeah, no, I know,yeah, you know that story has come
my way a number of times,so you know it's you know, right,
yeah, oh, it's legit.Yeah yeah. So well, you
(42:17):
know, Barry, we're we're kindof coming to the end of our interview.
Is there anything you want to leaveabout the game or its future or
whatever you want to talk about.I'll give you the floor for a few
minutes here to Okay, Well,there's a couple of things that well with
with myself. As we all know, it's the creator's game, right um,
and played for the creator's enjoyment,you know, That's what we're told
(42:40):
by our elders. Uh. Wecall the game in our language day jun
chiqua, which means they bump hips. Okay, And we still play the
medicine game for all players so theydon't get hurt and for the plane and
the good spirit of the game.At on a dog spring. You have
to use the wooden stick and there'sno pads, you know, it's it's
(43:05):
basically that alfie. Oh okay there, yeah, no, this is well,
that's that's that wouldn't that's that wouldn'tstake right. But this is different.
This is actually a spiritual game thatwe play medicine game. Yeah,
but we actually do. We playthat every every spring, you know,
for the benefit of all lacrosse players. You know said they played the good
(43:29):
mind right and they still carry on. And I think wherever lacrosse may take
itself. I know that they've gotthis new format now the sixes there column,
you know. So whatever whatever transitionlacrosse does make, I'm sure in
our native communities, you know,we're still going to hold that the creator's
game, you know, true totrue to our heart, you know,
(43:49):
and and play that that aspect ofthe game, you know, to fulfill
our our commitment to as we callour creator, right, because it is
the game. There's the medicine game, right, but the sport has the
medicine in it, right. Interestingenough, when we play the medicine game,
it's the first team that scores threegoals. And if you look in
(44:12):
history, like the Montreal Across Club, if they played Stay the Gonawag Indians,
it was three one, three two, and even some of the local
colleges. You look at U scoresback then and there was three three,
three one or three two, right, That was the original. That was
the original way to who who determinedwho would you know would win first team
(44:32):
of scores three goals. Yeah,but I'm sure the game's going evolved into
who knows what? Right, So, but it's the medicine will be there
forever and it has to be honoredcorrect, every every spring? Correct,
Yeah, yeah, anything else you'dlike to say that you know that that
is the essence of the game.Yeah, no, it's just that,
(44:59):
you know, I I view mymy career being very respectful for the game,
very humbled for the you know,the h well, the six Hall
of Fames that I was in,you know, that just amazes me,
you know, with all the greatathletes that are in there. But it's
something that you know, it's gonnathat I cherish, you know, the
(45:22):
ups and downs. Not everything wasa bit of roses, you know,
on anybody's career, right, butthe main thing that we have to remember
that there's always a spot for somebody, you know, that wants to play lacrosse.
Barry Pablos. And I was bornin Syracuse, New York, and my
birthday is April late nineteen fifty seven, m sixty five years old. What
nation are you. I'm from theOnondaga Nation. Yeah, located just south
of Syracuse, New York. Andyou have one of the greatest stick makers
in the world. Oh, yes, healthy jobs. Yeah. I actually
(00:29):
have a stick from his father.He used to I used to get Louis
Yeah, yeah, Jacks. Yeah. Who was the first person who introduced
you to the game? While thatwould have to have been my dad.
Um, we have, I guessto come from a La Cross family.
My great grandfather, Welcome Paul wasplayed until he was sixty years old.
(00:51):
He dressed for games. His son, my grandfather, Irving Paul, was
senior, played in the Old ProLeague in the nineteen thirty six. Yeah,
there was a New York state.Yeah, he was one of their
stars. Yeah. And then mydad he'd played until he was forty.
But as a family, we wouldgo to all his games. We would
(01:12):
travel to all his away games,so in introduction to the game was always
there. In fact, when Igot my first lacrosse stick, my dad
took me up to the old Chisholmfactory. And I remember going through that
factory. That was awesome. Imean there was sticks galore there, right,
(01:34):
So that's when I first got myfirst my own Stickho was ten years
old. And since then i'd gowith practices with my dad, you know,
I'd run with the team and everythingso and would have luck, would
have it. I think about thirteenyears old, we're at away game and
playing the Senecas had a Saturday nitegame and then a Sunday afternoon game.
(01:56):
Not many of the players showed upfor the Sunday afternoon game. There was
only four runners and a goalie.So my dad asked my mother got permission
to say, you know, canbury dress? I was thirteen. Oh
wow, yeah, So she reluctantlysaid yes, And so I put the
pads on the gloves came up tohear it, right because they heard those
(02:17):
little gloves, and uh yeah.I went out there, and so my
dad told me, he says,just stand at center. We'll play four
on four. When we get thebab we'll throw the ball up to you,
you know, and hopefully can godown and score. So that went
on for about five six offensive shifts. Right, and the goalie would save
it. The fans or are kindof they're laughing because they loving it little
(02:39):
this little guy running down. Butit was all good until I scored,
and so then after that they keptdrifting a guy back to Eventually they were
playing five four on four the restof the game and we actually won the
game. Where was that game playthat was in um Well with Cattaraugus against
the Pinewoods men's team. Okay,so this was an outdoor box. It
(03:01):
wasn't. Yeah, most of theteams played outdoor. That was in the
old North American Lacrosse Association and aLAY and a LA. So I know
Kevin Alexander I interviewed at one pointand he was the same thing. He
got brought in like as a thirteenyear old. Yeah, and what you
know for both of you, whateverway to start and after I scored,
(03:24):
remember getting hit after and because Iactually know it was a threat and it
was like the scarecrow, like mygloves were over there, my shoes over
here, and I wore glasses.My glasses were over there, right,
and there was no you know,there was no quarters given, right,
so now whatever, yeah, scoringwell, yeah, whatever, you want.
Yeah, everything, Yeah, wellthat's something. Yeah, you must
(03:47):
have played the outdoor box and owna dog. I've been there and oh
yes, yes, well in ninetywell that's where I actually played. And
then when Louis Jack was coaching,they moved out the team to Syracuse War
Memorial, so they would go backand forth. And when I was coming
up, they practiced on outside box. They had lights and everything, and
(04:09):
that was the place to be,you know, during Tuesday, Wednesdays and
Thursdays was down at the box andwatch the boys go at it. I
mean there were fights and everything else. They were so competitive, yeah,
you know, and it was agathering place for all the community. Everybody
had their favorite spot to stand.My grandmother and my mother's side, her
(04:32):
name was Mabel. She would havethere one spot in the shade that she
would always stand and she would haveher pencil and she would mark the score
down because that was before they hadlike a scoreboard up there and so and
you could see her her pencil marks, you know, for each game.
You know. Wow. Yeah,And that area has been the ball field,
(04:56):
the ball field area right forever rightfor do right and the great uh
Seneca prophet. Yeah, I hadsome lake pants of lake. Yeah,
I've been by his. He's likethe only stone right grave I've ever seen.
Yeah, you know, is rightthere and I've seen that. Yeah.
And before he passed away, heactually the Onondagas they played a game
(05:19):
of lacrosse and US benefited when amedicine medicine game, right and he Uh.
Then before twenty fifteen, they builta beautiful new radar right near there
as well, you know, whichis from what people tell me, gets
used all the time. Oh yeah, Yeah. It's a multi support facilities,
so they don't have like volleyball inthere, you know, in different
(05:42):
events. And actually I think they'regoing to have some NLL teams in there,
um before the season starts, right, Yeah, I read that,
and I think he's going to seesome teams come. Yeah they did that,
like yeah, that just happened.Yeah, that just happened. Yeah.
So, which is good, youknow, give the you know,
exposure to the different uh you know, native communities, which is great.
(06:03):
Yeah, that's a great thing todo. And I went down to the
new facility that was built and peoplewere throwing the ball around at like eleven
at night. Yeah. There,the lights were on. Yeah, and
you know I just go yeah,yeah, getting some good use here,
you know. Yeah, that oldbox there, that the outside one.
(06:23):
I spent countless hours, you knowwhen I was growing up, hot summer
evenings, just my or days,just myself and lacrosse ball and you know,
throwing the balls then that trying tomimic the shots that I had seen
or or different shots that my dadwould tell me, you know, and
and just over and over and over, you know. So it was either
that then would go home. Wehad a a porch on our trailer and
(06:46):
my dad had spray painted a thegoal on it, right, so they
always knew where I was because theyalways could hear the thumb thumb. Well
that's why you Yeah, you achievedwhat you've achieved. We were diligent,
Yeah, you know the game youknow. And um, I remember in
other stories as we talk, agood friend, Alfie Jacks, you know,
(07:10):
is right down the road from thatoutdoor right box, and rain lines
is right across. And did didyou get to go to Alfie's workshop over
the years? Oh yeah, Well, as I mentioned, my first stick
when I was playing high school acrossum, his dad made that stick for
(07:31):
me Louis. Yes, and soI would go there and you know,
watch pick out a frame building,same building, it was, same building.
Yeah, pick out a frame,you know, and he would finish
it off and he had net it. So I'd watched everything that he would,
you know, that you were doing. And I come to a point,
even when I moved away out west, you know, i'd get some
cat gut from from Alfie and Itake it with me because you know,
(07:54):
I could string the whole names.Yeah. Yeah, But I remember one
time the I was there getting thestick from from Louie when I was going
to a shoe and seventy six.That was my freshman year. Yeah,
and that was the time when thesuper Light two just came out too,
right, So I remember we gottwo super Light twos and I had my
(08:16):
new stick that that Louis made.Right. But while I was there,
I was just wandered around his workshopand there was his box off to the
side, big box. So Iremember going over there because I said Boston
Bolts, and I said, Ididn't know that Louis Louie was involved with
the Boston Bolts, maybe like amanager. Because there was all kinds of
(08:37):
pads in there. They had thefibers in there, they had gloves,
so I just randomly picked up apair of gloves and I had wolf on
on there. You know, whowould have known? You know, years
later he'd beat my coach in Coquitlamor one of the coaches. Yeah really,
yes, yeah, he would coachwith Frankie Nielson. You know that
those things don't happen by acts,right, That's amazing, Yeah, that's
(09:03):
amazing. And now was there apalace that played at Syracuse before you got
there? I'm not too sure,right, because none of our relatives that
I that I know went to Syracuse. Okay, yeah, okay, so
well we had uh, there wasOliver Hill, he was there. He
(09:24):
Oliver Hill. Yeah really he playedat Shoe Yeah that would have been yeah,
right, yeah, that would havebeen Ron Hill, Ron Hill,
Yeah he played there. Yeah.And then you had the doctors, Ron
and Laverne doctor. Okay, yeah, I remember going down there and watching.
But probably my senior year in highschool, gentleman by name is Jett
(09:45):
Smith. He was their big attackmentdown there, right, and then my
freshman year, um it was hissenior year and I don't I don't know,
we played in Cortland or or thehost of them. But I was
like, wow, playing against JohnSmith, you have to play. Yeah.
Yeah. And O'Hara's bj O'Hara.You know he went at Hobart.
Yeah. Yeah, those are thetype of players you know, Daddy watched
(10:07):
coming up. You always wanted toplay, you know, Division one.
My dad took me to shoes gameand my grandfather he would we would go
together and watch the Lafayette games tohigh school, watched the local high school
games. And he was a manof a few words, but he'd sit
there and he had this little chucklefor different plays that he would see meal
(10:28):
Misq's right, you know. Andand I never knew that he played pro.
He never said anything wow until reallyyeah, until me and my cousin
were helping him build a log cabinrestore one. And when it's all done,
he put this picture up of himselfthat was taken in thirty six and
he was using a left handed stick. He was a lefty and it was
(10:50):
a left handed stick. And Ilooked at it and I said, grandpa's
this you and he goes yeah.So then he started telling me stories about
Yeah, yeah, now was thatthe league that played like in Geneva,
Rochester, You like you made MornellYeah, right, right, because more
Lions told me stories about him goingto watch his dad play, and he
(11:15):
loved going to Geneva because they couldgo for spaghetti dinner. Yeah, in
New York it was a big dealan Italian restaurant. Yeah, because my
grandpa played first for the Rochester Sonicbecause I believe they were called and then
he played for Syracuse Red Devils,okay, and they played right across the
Buffalo. They were pro right inGeneva, New York. I always heard
(11:37):
from another side, the Crouch family, you know, from the Simmons crowds
right their their dad used to tellme because I played with all three of
the boys, two of them atHobart one out in Orange County. Oh
you know, I played with allthree of them at some point. They
used to tell me that the bloodused to be just flowing from the chicken
(11:58):
wires that always on the armory floor, the floor in Geneva, right,
you know that was the So thatmust have been quite something. Oh yeah,
that was the Winter League. BecauseI remember talking to Cap about that
at about my grandfather playing, andhe kept says he remembers his dad coming
back because he's the guys from sixthNations they played for Hornell. Okay,
(12:22):
so he remember roughly roughly I thinkthat's in between Rochester and Buffalo, like
the Southern co Yeah, okay,but he remembers the door opening. You
know, i'd say two three inthe morning, right, you know,
the snow, the winds coming in. You hear the laughter from the car,
right, we'll see you next week. You know. They loved it.
Yeah, let's say the old WinterLeague back then, Yell Adventure,
(12:45):
Yeah, to do that and yeah. Yeah. When did they build the
new arena where the Natoga Redbirds play? That play out of now and oh
that was in two thousand and one, I believe. Okay, so you
were well passed. Yeah. Actuallythe I was the first coach, you
know, for them, because wechanged our name from the On a Dog
(13:09):
Athletic Club OWAC to On a DogRed Hawks Red Hawks. Yeah, red
Hawks. Yeah, and it wasRed Hawks. No, it's Red Hawks.
Yeah. That's changed it too.Yeah. Yeah. And so then
then my job took me to liveout in Western New York. And so
that was the last time I wasbasically affiliate with you know, with with
(13:30):
coaching the team. Right, sookay, okay, well let's get into
a little bit of your background asa player. You played high school.
What high school did you let be? Lafayette High School? Okay, right?
Healthy? Travis Cook? Travis Cookright too, Yeah, he came.
They invited him down. I thinkthey're related, but u El not
(13:52):
Elfie Louis invited him down and togo to school at Lafayette. Okay,
yeah, so Travis Laffiette as alaunch standing name. Yeah, I think
it was sixty two was their firstseason in lacrosse. But my yeah,
my senior year seventy five, Iwas a high school All American that which
is really yeah saying something you know, and then you you went to he
(14:16):
played attack at Syracuse. Yes,who were some of your attack teammates?
Well, we had well in myhigh school teammate, Uh, Larry Storier.
Uh he went to Syracuse. Uh, there was a Tim O'Hara,
Oh yeah, he was there.We ran attack and then there was a
(14:37):
um freaking his name it was fromJames wild DeWitt from that all that area.
Because when we actually started, uhin well in seventy seventy six when
we went to a Shoe. Therewas a big recruitment by Simmons to keep
a lot of the local talent,you know, in Syracuse instead of it
going all over um like Donahue.Remember desk Go desk Goo was was a
(15:01):
freshman, you know the first yearI went in and there was a UNI
she was a big midi defenseman.Okay, yeah, yeah, So there
was quite a few of us,you know that played high school against one
another, you know in Central NewYork, came together. It came together
as you team. Yeah, youwon the North American Lacrosse Association Championship oac
(15:24):
IS when you were with them.Yeah, that was actually the last year
of that na LA. That wasseventy six, seventy eight, I believe.
And then because the following year that'swhen the Canam League was born.
Okay, right, okay, thenyou went to Cornwall and played as well.
Right. Yeah. What happened isactually I have to credit Louis Jocks
(15:46):
for that because his friend Benedict FrankBennedict came down, okay, and they
were talking and they said, asanybody here that you know could help with
our our junior team, Knuckle Sasine, and so Louis gave Frank my my
name, and so Frank came tothe house and we were talking. And
(16:07):
at the time, I was goingto go school, uh in the fall,
but looking for you know, somaybe work whatever in the summer.
So he said, well, youcan come up. You can work at
the factory because he was running thelacrostic factor at that point, yeah,
at the round point one, right, and you can play it with our
team. So I would, Iwould spend my summers up in Nucky Sasine.
He played up there. Oh reallyyeah, Okay, he played in
(16:30):
the first ever World Box Championships thatwas kind of the predecessor to the World
Indoor Lacrosse, right, right,and I've met it. We've done a
story actually on that whole right,Yeah, I saw that. Yeah,
it's very good. Yeah, whichyou know, again trying to get capture
that one, right. Yeah.That nineteen eighty tournament was a eye opening
(16:53):
tournament for a lot of us becauseyou know, we're playing at different nations,
you know, Tusk Grower of SenecasMohawks, right, and then when
we came together out in British Columbia, we actually went to see a Victoria
and Coquitlam game. This is beforethe tournament started, right, and I
think all of us were amazed atthe level of play that was there,
(17:18):
right, and we're like right,and we're like, this is the type
of lacrosse that's there. And Iwas like, you know, how how
do I get into this? Youknow? And that team the North American
Native team, right, Squamish players. It was a lot of guys from
back east, right, but thenthe Squamish joined as well. So yeah,
the way they set it up,we made a team, uh,
(17:41):
and then initial team of twenty threeguys. Then we went out in the
West Coast. We knew we'd bepicking up at least six players, you
know from North Shore, so wehad we had two games against each other
and you had to make then thefinal squad. Yeah. Out of that
workout was forming that team. We'repeople appointed problem. Well, yeah,
we had guys that didn't make theteam. You know. We had one
(18:03):
guy just took off to see relativesin Seattle. You see you later deal,
right, But it was it wasa great Um. I would just
say, uh, looking at thattype of lacrosse out there, right and
playing in the final was like eightthousand people, most ever played it at
that time at the Pacific Coliseum,you know where the Canucks played. You
(18:26):
know that the north Shore people hadthe drums going, you know, it
was it was an amazing atmosphere andyour team did very well. Yeah,
we actually were hit four two atend of the first period, right you
know, and then uh didn't goour away at the end, but you
know, we hung right in there. I think of sixteen level playing.
You know, we're playing Coquitlam becausewhat they did they put the first team
(18:51):
Canada West was represented by the whoeverwas in first place by that time,
saying with the East. So youhad Brooklyn in there and you had Coquitlam.
Yeah, yeah, yes, yeah, that's right. And then you
actually went back in eighty one rightto play for the seven Bellis. Well
what happened is that again that nineteeneighty tournament was like a mild mark for
(19:11):
me, right that I got recruitedto go back to play for First north
Shore and under the premise that FrankBaker he was going to build to win
the President's Cup and then petition tothe WLA to go into the w LA.
So I said, great, youknow, all goal play Senior B.
(19:32):
The next year will goal play SeniorA. But we came in third
at the President's Cup. I wonthe MVP of the of the President's Cup.
But during that summer we were affiliatedwith New West, so we would
play up with New West, soyou were allowed to play, right,
So I mean yeah, so thenine Cup, so we came back.
Yeah, there was two of us, Jeff Gale and myself. They picked
(19:53):
up. So we played in gamefour against Brooklyn, which is a real
Yeah, and you played at Queen'sPart, Queen's Park on the wood floors
ground. It was Wayne Wayne Gosse'slast game he ever played, is that
right? Yeah? Right? Andthen the following year I played. I
played full time with the Bellies,right, and Wayne was the coach.
(20:15):
He started out as the coach thathe had that exit accident. Yeah,
I saw Wayne just when I wasat my inductions watching. Yeah that I
just saw him and I had bigchoose to fill because I actually I took
his spot on the power play.Wow. Yeah, people be lucky to
go. Yeah, yeah, youknow. Yeah, he told me once
he goes Barry, you don't haveto shoot so hard. And he goes
(20:37):
tried the bount shot. I guessthat was his favorite shot. Yeah,
so I incorporate the bount shot andthere because the way he got Wayne Goss,
you got try the bump shot.You know better try to um.
So then we go You're you're playingkind of for the North Shore Indians and
eighty four right. Yeah, andso you spent a lot of time west
(21:00):
Over Yeah the summers, like,well, I was out I lived out
there for ten years. Oh youdid? Yeah? Okay, yeah,
okay, you lived out there,you're out there. No. Actually the
first year that we I drove outwith a friend from Seneca and Jeff gill
As we're coming through the Rocky Mountains. It's April, so everything's gray,
(21:25):
right, Ye. So we comedown the mountains into the uh the valley,
right and it no no, noBC right. Yeah, and it's
like the odds, you know,the cherry trees or bloom. Everything's green
and flowers. You know, it'slike somethinghere, ye where are? Yeah?
It was awesome and we'll jump aheada little bit. Sure, but
(21:52):
you came back and played for Fergusin nineteen ninety. Yeah, Well what
happened is when I was with theBelly Uh Bellies and Fergus were like the
two oldest lacrosse clubs in Canada,and so they wanted to Yeah, so
they wanted to have a a competition. They call it the Pioneer Cup.
(22:17):
And so the first I think theydon't only get it once, it wasn't
It was in Fergus. So that'swhen I went met Mac Mason, right,
had a contact there. Didn't knowi'd play be playing for Fergus after
that, you know, since becausethat was in ninety two they had the
Pioneer Cup. So when I movedback, I heard that uh, Fergus
would be hosting, right, SoI called macup and I asked if they're
(22:41):
looking for any left hand left handerson it on these team? He said,
sure, come on up. Yeah, that's the great thing about the
sport. Yeah, yeah, alot of experience. Fergus is a nice
little town. They had this onerestaurant called Mike's Burgers I believe it was
called. It was just a greasyspoon, but they put all the team
pictures up there they had won andyeah for the yeah place, right,
(23:06):
So they said, well hopefully ifyou guys went in ninety I'll get your
team picture at Mike. Yeah,yeah, you know the paces, right,
yeah yeah, And after they won, they had a parade, were
fire trucks and all, you know, so it was awesome, pretty cool.
Yeah. And then you I'm lookinghere and then you you played nineteen
(23:26):
ninety in Perth for your national team, right now, the that was the
first your national team that was allowedto play in the World Games. Yeah,
so that was a big deal,you know, for their organization.
And there was only two of usthat had played in eighty that made the
ninety team. That was David Bray. He's Seneca. He went to Cornell.
(23:52):
Yeah. Yeah, So we ranon the same line in eighty in
the box tournament, and we ranon the same midfield line in ninety.
How old were you, guys?I was let's see here, ninety.
I would have been thirty thirty two, and he was he was thirty year
older. He's like thirty three.Wow, you guys are still pumping it
out. Yeah, Like it's notthat uncommon now to see guys in their
(24:14):
late thirties playing in NLL. Butright, that's the offense defense part.
There's stress and right, right,the nineteen ninety one Buffalo Renegades, your
first overall pick and you played forthem. Yeah. That was a that
was the Canadian version of the NLL. And now they lasted one year.
There was four clubs in that ohokay, okay. Then the next year,
(24:38):
the next year the Bandits Bandits,yeah they were They came on like
Gangbusters. Oh yeah and everything.Yeah. Right from the beginning, well
at the old odds, what theyhad like sixteen thousand and so what I
learned later, um, is thatthe management of the Sabers gave the same
(25:00):
uh percentage of UM income to thesalespeople. So they said, well,
you sell these tickets, we're goingto give you a sale the same commission.
Okay. So they went out andsold at Gangbusters smart. Yeah.
Yeah. So it wasn't like aneight game season, right, whole game
season for home games home. Sothe crowd started like, uh like maybe
(25:25):
six thousand, then it went eightand then it went sixty. Yeah help,
Yeah was Less Bartley. Less Bartleywas the hit coach, him,
him and me Radian I was yeah, I was involved with them with the
Toronto Rock when we go okay,yeah, yeah, I know what the
power that Less had in Johnny isjust always right, promoting and right,
(25:48):
you know, and two great peopletoo. Oh yeah, yeah, it's
a great organization. Yeah. SoI was, you know again it was
on what I was that thirty threethen, so I was on the tail
end of my you know, howwould you say prime right, Yeah,
so I was lucky to, uhfor it's very fortunate to get on to
experience that well. Yeah, becausein seventy four seventy five when I was
(26:11):
I was playing junior um. Afterour practices would get in the car of
Mike Benedick and he would run upto Montreal to watch Ernie Davis play.
I mean Ernie and Mitchell play,right, Yeah, Ernie Mitchell goalie.
Yeah, it was the goalie.John Bishop was, yeah, coach,
yeah, and I think I wasn'tuh Davis? Was he still playing John
(26:32):
David? I think he was,yeah, Yeah, you know which was
right? Legends right, because youknow, any whatever sport you play,
and if you have an opportunity toplay pro, right, whatever level of
course you do anything, you doit right. Yeah, just the experience.
Yeah, yeah. So how longdid you play in the new NLL.
How long did you play there?That was just you know, just
(26:53):
the initial year that first. Yeah, and there got a year in there,
right, you know, experienced it, and then um um three years
later, the Rochester Nighthawks came along, right, and so I was able
to uh interview for that position,okay, and that's when I became to
hit. The coach for Rochester hadto be very yeah, pepul and right,
(27:18):
they didn't have as big a buildingto fill. They did a good
job, right, They only hitsix thousand initially. Then he added on
after that, I think they're atnine thousand, and so let's let's jump
like amazing playing career, and we'llget into some of the honors for that
a little bit later. But thecoaching and at midside, talk about a
(27:40):
few highlights in your whole lacrosse careeraround that side, you know. Yeah.
Well, actually my first coaching experiencewas in James will Do It,
which is a little suburb of Syracuseas a modified assistant coach. I did
that for two years, and thenI got an opportunity to be the hit
(28:00):
coach with Lafayette as they're modified,was that for two years. That would
be seventh and eighth grade, okay, okay, and so the fam that
my third year, I was askedto be the hit coach for the for
the Lafayette High School team, thevarsity. Yeah. So I did that
(28:21):
for three years, and I hadan opportunity to coach my youngest brother,
Neil, his junior and senior year. Yeah yeah, yeah, and then
um that led to ninety ninety three, our nation had a team in the
Iroquois Lacrosse Association because at that timenot many communities had lacrosse. For whatever
(28:45):
reason, there was no men's lacrosse. Some weren't playing for like three or
four or something even five years.There was no teams that at Onondaga there
was no teams for five years.Yeah. So in ninety three they formed
the Year Coil Lacrosse Association and Iwas like a player assistant coach with them
(29:07):
the first year and then I'd belike a player coach after that with them.
And we did that for and weactually well to BC that very first
year. We won the league andwe had like an all star because we
were classified like Senior C so wecould pick up players from all over the
league. Because it was our firstyear coming into the c LA as a
(29:30):
as an association. Okay, youknow, as a high school kid.
I'm from Saskatchewan, but I grewup in Long Island and I was Canada's
only field player at one point fieldplayer. Oh yeah, yeah, it
was the only one. And Ididn't even know I was Canadian anymore now.
(29:51):
So and then I got then Igot a phone call out of the
blue and saying, would you beinterested in h interviewing for the head coach
for this new expansion team we're havingin Rochester. And so I said the
Nighthawks, And I said, whysure, So I interviewed, and then
they got a call from the RussKlein and he was partnered with Fitch I
(30:17):
believe his last name Fritz, FritzFritz, Yes, And they said,
you know, you know, weselected you to be the head coach,
you know, for Rochester. Sothat was yeah. So I coached Rochester
for three years. Right now,that was crazy because I had players pressure
well yeah, but I had youknow, we had an open tryout,
(30:40):
so as I described it, wehad players of all kinds of shapes and
conditions and experience showing up, youknow, everybody, everybody, right,
and we whittled it down and uh, we had a good nucleus of field
players and some native players. Wegot some well at that time, you
(31:02):
could have five Canadian players on yourroster, okay, so I know Dietrich
was one of them. Lemon wasanother one. Um, you'd just go
yeah, and I think Peter Parkwas there first year, okay, and
uh, there was one other Iforget, but just before this season.
(31:25):
That was nineteen ninety five, okay. And at the time the year before,
Paul and Gary were playing for Philly. But apparently Gary, you know,
Paul petitioned the league to say,well I live in Syracuse. It'd
be a lot easier for me ifI played for Rochester. So they moved
him to Rochester. So they madeus a legitimate contender right off the bed.
(31:47):
Yeah. And Rochester did a greatjob yeah as an organization. Yeah,
well yeah, because they were affiliatedwith the with the Americans right in
Rochester Americans. Yeah, so itwas a good fit there because everything was
in place. A yeah, theyhad they had a central administration. Yeah,
both teams, right, they actuallybrought a field team in at some
point, right, right. Wepracticed at the old Armory in Rochester,
(32:15):
and you know, we had ourearly I would just say struggles coming together,
you know, because we had arewas very diverse as far as the
indoor experience. The food players hadnone, right, But we had some
big game it is, right,So you're trying to look for the most
aggressive type of field players, right, and but we I think we finished
(32:39):
four and four uh in the regularseason, and then we beat Boston and
then we went to the final againstPhilly. Now, at that time,
you hosted a game by attendance,so we had no chance of hosting any
playoff game. So all our gamesare on the road. And so we
(33:00):
played Philly and Philly for the finalon my birthdate in April, and we
lost in overtime. Wow yeah,wow, that was but it was great
experience though, right, yeah,yeah, Okay. So who was the
best field player adapting to the boxgame during that time, like that three
(33:22):
years that you had, Well,we had Tim Soudan was from Rochester,
right, He went to U massright and he came aboard. Um,
we had met writer from Syracuse.He was all American. Okay, Yeah,
he adapted well, right, Andand there was a couple other Reggie
(33:43):
Thorpe Okay, he played defense,you know for Shoe And I remember going
to his apartment because he was justcoming graduated from Shoe and I've knocked on
his door and I introduced myself andI said to be interested, to see
if you're if you're interested in comingplaying defense for this new pro team in
(34:04):
Rochester. And he goes, wheredo I sign everybody? Yeah? Yeah,
yeah, you know so. Butwe had a good group of uh,
collegiate guys that came in, youknow, and they had to obviously
learned the game, and the biggestthing was teaching them you just can't throw
the ball from all kinds of crazyangles, right because if the goalie is
(34:27):
actually a halfway decent goaltender, you'rejust going to hit them. They'll never
beat them. Yeah, that's right. But everything sort of came together.
The second year we lost in theSemis, and then the third year,
my last year, we beat Buffaloin Buffalo. Wow, for the championship.
It sold out like nineteen thousand,crazy five. Yeah, it was.
(34:49):
It was that adrenaline rush that youwhen you get right, there's no
other feeling in the world. Yeah, when you when you full house,
full house, Yeah, good cuppetition, Oh yeah together and it's pretty
yeah, yeah, that's amazing.Well, let's look at some of the
awards that you've won over time,and you would comment on those and Ontario
(35:15):
Lacrosse Hall of Fame Player category innineteen ninety nine, which is a real
honor. There's you know, somegreat you're in the place right now,
right, A lot of great playersinducted over the years into this place.
Yeah. I remember getting the phonecall and at the time I was doing
sales outside sales and all the restof my appointments. I had this big
(35:37):
grin on my feather. I mean, I never what as a player,
you never think of that's the ultimategoal, right, I want to be
in the Hall of Fame or anythinglike that, right, Yeah, but
it was quite quite an honor.You know, I'm so humble to be
amongst and considered with all these greatgreat athletes and lacrosse players you know in
(35:57):
this hall. Oh yeah, thenwill jump over like your Greater Syracuse Sports
Hall of Fame uh US Lacrosse UpstateNew York chapter, which is a big
deal. Again, Oh yeah,the power of that area, right,
you know, there's amazing players comingup. The year I was inducted with
the Greater Syracuse Sports was the sameyear that Gary Gate was also inducted.
(36:21):
Okay, so right, that wasquite. That was that was quite you
know, to be you know,in that that presence. You know,
that's the same class. I wentback to see their their Hall of Fame
exhibit and my I gave them astick from um from field across my high
school stick and it was in thesame case. It's the same case as
(36:43):
Jim Brown. So I said,well, it's pretty good company. It's
pretty good company, you know,being from Onondaga. The stories of Jim
Brown coming down with Oren, youknow, to play in the outdoor box
right right. And I always tryto remember the name of the guy who's
a little one hundred and fifty poundguy who's claimed to fame. Was he
took Jim Brown down twice with ahipcheck. And do you remember the name
(37:07):
of that fellow, that fellow taughtme how to take a cross check when
I was ten years old? Thatwas my father, That that was your
dad, that was my dad.I'm so glad I asked that question,
yeah, because I remember hearing that. It was just like he had the
perfect hip check. And yeah,obviously Jimmy Brown was all power. Oh
(37:30):
yeah, and so if you hadto do it right, or you're gonna
be freight trade. Well, mydad taught me how to take a cross
check. He also taught me howto deliver the hip check right because it
was legal back in those days,and he learned it from his father.
Is that right? Yeah? Sothis was a family a family trade the
(37:51):
hip check and you're hitting your theplayer in this area here. You know
you're not bending over anything, You'reactually throwing your hip into them. That's
how you deliver it. So whathappened that was my father, my grandfather
was coaching the Onnadaga team, JimBrown, and Range was their senior year
in fifty seven, so they allowedhim to play lacrosse his last year.
(38:14):
So Range asked Jim, well,wouldn't it be great to come down and
as a fundraiser for our club ona dog and play with us against the
Mohawks. So they set it allup, right, They get a call
say the game is going to belike a two clock in the Sunday afternoon.
No Mohawks, they didn't show.Oh here comes Jim Brown rolls in
and he's Cadillac. Everybody's there.Tickets were sold, right, so like,
(38:36):
what are we gonna do? Souse. Yeah, yeah, that's what
they're saying that. Yeah. Soand they the box was just below Louie
Jocks's house. Yeah right, andthat's where he shop is. That's where
the box was why the boys played. Yeah, So what they said is
(38:57):
we'll split the team up in twoand Well and Jim will go on one
team. Jim was on the otherteam. Orn and my dad were on
another team. Okay, So,as my dad told the story, he
never saw a player adapt that playedjust predominantly feel adapt so quickly to the
physical game of the of the box. He goes, there was a ball
(39:17):
in the corner. He went inthere and the scrum he come out with
the ball, you know, withhis speed, he just outlegged everybody.
He goes. I was staying atcenter and Orn was in the net.
Now Orn and my dad are juniors, so back then they would call one
another sonny, Sonny irv sonny Orn. So Orn yelled to my dad,
get him Sonny, right. Somy dad staying there sizing up Jim Brown
(39:43):
running down the ball. And nowJim Brown saw was one hundred forty pound
man staying They're all just run byhim, right, So my dad timed
his feet and he delivered the hipcheck and he hit Brown. My dad
said, I was like hitting anoak tree. He was that solid.
People that watch the game, allthey saw was legs like this and when
(40:04):
he hit there was a cloud ofdust where Brown hit another little for my
dad hit Bob rolled out. Yeah, my dad was okay. They said,
five minutes on the in the boxplaying lacrosse and Jim Brown's laying on
laying in the ground. Wow.Yeah. So my dad's best body who
(40:27):
his name was Bob Venerables, whoteaches um UH the Native American program at
Cornell. He's retired now, butVenerables was in New York City and there
was this book signing by Jim Brown. So he bought a book and he
and Venerables knew the story right.So he gets up to the table and
Jim Brown says, okay, wantingto put it sign your book your name.
(40:50):
So when Bob gives him his name, he goes, I got a
question for you. He goes,is it true that you were knocked down
by Chief Vernie Paulo because my father'sone of our traditional leaders by Chief Evoring
Polos and a lacrosse game at ona daga. And now you can imagine
what Brown's going through because this Perissona, I've never been knocked down on a
(41:13):
lacrosse field a game, right,And so if eyes and ears are looking
at him, and he Venerable sayshe Brown slowly lifted his eyes and he
looked at him. He goes ChiefPoulos as an honorable man. If he
said that happened, it probably happened. Yeah, So, Bob Venerables,
(41:36):
that's good enough for me. Youknow, that's the only story about a
check that you know, everybody talksabout big hits, you, right,
but that's the one that's probably thegranddaddy of the ball. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah. And then mydad was telling me that after after
the game, he wanted to knowwho he hit him, So he asked,
(41:57):
Ran, but who was that littlemosquito that hit me? Because my
dad owned late one hundred and thirtyfive or forty com Soca went yeah,
yeah, no, I know,yeah, you know that story has come
my way a number of times,so you know it's you know, right,
yeah, oh, it's legit.Yeah yeah. So well, you
(42:17):
know, Barry, we're we're kindof coming to the end of our interview.
Is there anything you want to leaveabout the game or its future or
whatever you want to talk about.I'll give you the floor for a few
minutes here to Okay, Well,there's a couple of things that well with
with myself. As we all know, it's the creator's game, right um,
and played for the creator's enjoyment,you know, That's what we're told
(42:40):
by our elders. Uh. Wecall the game in our language day jun
chiqua, which means they bump hips. Okay, And we still play the
medicine game for all players so theydon't get hurt and for the plane and
the good spirit of the game.At on a dog spring. You have
to use the wooden stick and there'sno pads, you know, it's it's
(43:05):
basically that alfie. Oh okay there, yeah, no, this is well,
that's that's that wouldn't that's that wouldn'tstake right. But this is different.
This is actually a spiritual game thatwe play medicine game. Yeah,
but we actually do. We playthat every every spring, you know,
for the benefit of all lacrosse players. You know said they played the good
(43:29):
mind right and they still carry on. And I think wherever lacrosse may take
itself. I know that they've gotthis new format now the sixes there column,
you know. So whatever whatever transitionlacrosse does make, I'm sure in
our native communities, you know,we're still going to hold that the creator's
game, you know, true totrue to our heart, you know,
(43:49):
and and play that that aspect ofthe game, you know, to fulfill
our our commitment to as we callour creator, right, because it is
the game. There's the medicine game, right, but the sport has the
medicine in it, right. Interestingenough, when we play the medicine game,
it's the first team that scores threegoals. And if you look in
(44:12):
history, like the Montreal Across Club, if they played Stay the Gonawag Indians,
it was three one, three two, and even some of the local
colleges. You look at U scoresback then and there was three three,
three one or three two, right, That was the original. That was
the original way to who who determinedwho would you know would win first team
(44:32):
of scores three goals. Yeah,but I'm sure the game's going evolved into
who knows what? Right, So, but it's the medicine will be there
forever and it has to be honoredcorrect, every every spring? Correct,
Yeah, yeah, anything else you'dlike to say that you know that that
is the essence of the game.Yeah, no, it's just that,
(44:59):
you know, I I view mymy career being very respectful for the game,
very humbled for the you know,the h well, the six Hall
of Fames that I was in,you know, that just amazes me,
you know, with all the greatathletes that are in there. But it's
something that you know, it's gonnathat I cherish, you know, the
(45:22):
ups and downs. Not everything wasa bit of roses, you know,
on anybody's career, right, butthe main thing that we have to remember
that there's always a spot for somebody, you know, that wants to play lacrosse.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!