July 7, 2023 • 46 mins
Dennis Joseph descends from a long line of lacrosse players. His father, Willard Joseph, played box and field lacrosse for the famed North Shore Indians teams. Dennis Joseph’s grandfather , Andrew Paull was inducted into the Canadian Lacrosse Hall of Fame.
Paull was the founder/coach/manager of the North Shore Indians and the Squamish box and field teams. Paull was able to build capacity crowds of over 10,000 fans in the historic Denman Arena in the 1920’s and 30’s.
Outside of lacrosse Paull was the well known activist and lawyer who battled for First Nation rights and advancement. Dennis Joseph followed these footsteps with class and dedication.
His minor years were with the North Shore Indians. He has played box and field lacrosse for over 54 years. He has almost exclusively played goalie and continued to star in Masters and Grand Master divisions years after others had retired.
A most memorable moment in a colourful career was playing against Gaylord Powless and his father Ross Powless who coached when Joseph was 15 years old .
These days he coaches goaltending and serves as an elder at the Senior Level with three different organizations. Join us in hearing the unique story about Dennis Johnson and West Coast lacrosse.
Paull was the founder/coach/manager of the North Shore Indians and the Squamish box and field teams. Paull was able to build capacity crowds of over 10,000 fans in the historic Denman Arena in the 1920’s and 30’s.
Outside of lacrosse Paull was the well known activist and lawyer who battled for First Nation rights and advancement. Dennis Joseph followed these footsteps with class and dedication.
His minor years were with the North Shore Indians. He has played box and field lacrosse for over 54 years. He has almost exclusively played goalie and continued to star in Masters and Grand Master divisions years after others had retired.
A most memorable moment in a colourful career was playing against Gaylord Powless and his father Ross Powless who coached when Joseph was 15 years old .
These days he coaches goaltending and serves as an elder at the Senior Level with three different organizations. Join us in hearing the unique story about Dennis Johnson and West Coast lacrosse.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:06):
Quitch. Tall's my ancestral name.Dennis Joseph is my given name, and
I'm elder statesman lacrosse player from SquamishNation. Do you remember who introduced you
to the game the first person?It was a very kind question from my
dad. He played lacrosse, Hisdad played lacrosse. My mother's father managed,
(00:31):
coached and played box and field lacrosse. So I come from a long
line of lacrosse players. Yes,but my dad asked me if I wanted
to play. I was like six, and of course I was hopeless.
I'm his son. I said yes, yeah, oh play my older brothers.
I have six older brothers and sisters, and the brothers all played.
(00:54):
This is on the top is thefame picture taking out side the old form
in Toronto where nor Shore Indians hadwon the Nationals in Toronto in nineteen thirty
six. So when the picture aretwo, my grandfathers Andy Paul, who
was manager, coach, and StanJoseph is also in there. He's right
(01:19):
here. Wow. Yeah, that'smy dad's Dado. Yeah. Yeah.
So there's guys from six nations,including the Bomberries Martins. They're now in
the BC Sports Hall of Fame.As well, along with Simon Baker.
He asked me to help. Tookabout a year to get pictures names.
(01:44):
Actually the consultant was Ross Paulos.He was still alive after. We wanted
to make sure that everybody was includedin the Sports Hall of Fame. And
these pictures of these fine men youngmen down below is taken that Mahon Park.
There used to be a lacrosse boxthere. There's a stadium there called
(02:05):
Fenn Burdette that was in behind therewhere this lacrosse box was. Yeah,
with the Squamish nation, it waslacrosse go back as far as say that
as a hod in the Shawnees totheir creation stories. Is if that sort
of relationship or what did it comeout later to be part of the Squamish
culture. The modern era did evolvethere, but there is a variation.
(02:31):
I learned from my great grandmother.I got to see her until it was
fourteen and a half. Her namewas Lizzie, and I talked to her
about the lacrosse game and she sharedthat here for Squamish Coast sailersh it was
more for recreation and village would playagainst village. They would set up two
(02:51):
posts buried in the ground, andthe ball was actually a granite rock,
and the objective was to get theof course the rock between the posts.
You could run it through, throwit through. Um, but that's the
origin of lacrosse here and sticks weresometimes involved too, okay, okay,
(03:13):
so oh you're so so it wasplayed without a stick quite often with a
stick you had a choice, Iguess. And okay, but but probably
different than the long sticks from backwith the yeah and the when that yeah.
Different a little different than that though, Yeah, but again I create.
Was it always referred to as thecreator's game? Uh No, here
(03:37):
was more for recreation, she shared. Okay, but when I dug deep
enough into like even that rock.Yes, when she told me that,
I went and found one on thebeach, it transformed my life. Huh.
My body changed, my spirit change. There's always fear in the game,
but I found strength and just youholding that rock, that ground at
(04:02):
rock. And I still teach thistwo players today, elite players. Yes,
And I posted around, passed around, invite them all to hold it.
What's the size of that rock?It's about yeah, grapefruit like okay,
so bigger than a field lacrosse ball. Or the size of a grape
fruit. Yeah, maybe a bitsmaller. And you know belief from hood
(04:27):
and Shawnee or on a shnabi iseverything has a renda is the term power,
the rocks, the mountain, sea, everything has a power to it.
Would that be a similar situation,very similar? And for me when
I was at that age. Yeah, physically, my my muscle's gone stronger,
(04:49):
my fear was lesson. I alwaystold my players as a coach,
so how old were you then?Fourteen? And that's a big, a
key time in everybody's life. I'dlost my dad at twelve, but I
would go and visit her, likeall of us kids would go and visit
her in her room, and mymother always said to keep her company.
(05:13):
But really it was to be taught, to be taught from the history of
Squamish and language of Squamish, likethe story I just shared with you about
the rock. She didn't speak muchEnglish barely. I'm only the third generation
to be speaking this language. Soit's not that long ago, you know,
in terms of history, it's notthat long ago. Yeah, yeah,
(05:36):
but the spirit sign I created myselfjust yeah, to take my tools
to the game, as it were, When did you become a goalie?
I started playing ball hockey first,Okay. Then after my dad coached me
and my uncle Albert started coaching meand his sons I used to play ball
hockey with okay, and they toldher dad, who's the coach at deal,
(06:00):
this is a great goal, youshould put him in that. Okay.
So it was a little relocked onthat first until I saw my Hall
of Famer uncle Stan Joseph Senior comeout of retirement in his mid forties and
North Shore and people just stood up, hundreds of people that Harry Jerome Arena
stood up in the game, standingup and he stood there for maybe ten
(06:21):
minutes, ten minutes, everybody,everybody in the room, even though we
were playing an opposing team. Therewas respect, deep respect. So what
I saw that as a twelve yearold, twelve and a half year old,
it's like, yeah, it's awatershed moment. I want to do
that. I'm going to be that. Yeah. Would you say that this
(06:43):
game is a medicine game for you? It is great medicine game got me
through boy back then unspoken grief.Yeah. And it wasn't until I started
to be a young man that Istarted to work on myself and the game
definitely got me through those tough times. Yes, I mean I would talk
(07:04):
to my uncles who were some ofthem were coaches, including Stan, and
the cultural teachings is you could askthem to be your father. And I
approached three of them and they allsaid, yes, they knew the teaching.
Your uncle's become your replacement dads.And even though I didn't see them
day to day all the times,a couple of them, one I did
(07:25):
because he's he's my uncle, buthe's like five years older than me.
We grew up more like brothers.Yes, yeah, so even though not
a father figure, who's an importantfigure in my life from that generation above
me. Incredible guy. How oldwere you when you think you would be
when you became a Goali? Howold do you think you were at that
(07:46):
point? Roughly probably twelve, Sothis is me probably nineteen sixty eight.
As to me playing goal, Thereyou are, and my brother's in here
right here, Patrick, he's ayear older. So we would reconnect every
other year, playing the same teamin the minor system. Yeah, you
(08:07):
were reluctant at first, but thenyou reluctant. Um. I think my
big release was being physical as adefenseman. Yes, it was part of
my healing. I jost lost mydad. Yes, and the physical part
of game sure helped. Yes,a release if you will, Yeah,
fairly, we're taught by coaches.Even then, yes, leave it on
(08:28):
the floor once the game's over,the whistle goes, shakens, you move
on. Yes, but that physicalpart was certainly helpful as a a tween,
A tween, you know, twelveyear old. Yes, yeah,
yeah. It's a tough, toughtime of life right there. Yeah yeah,
yeah. Were you successful in lacrossegoal right from the beginning, like,
(08:50):
yeah, it seemed like you werethe right spot, Yes, the
right spot right time. Yeah.Um, got lots of kudos from fellow
players over time, and guys areplaying against even as a peewee when I
started playing, got a few teamtrophies, some league trophies. It's always
(09:11):
nice to get those in that recognitionand um, that's support. Ultimately in
the end, just to carry onand be better, do better. That
was my personal philosophy. I couldalways do better, sure, always.
I'm still a peewee in this one. This is after we amalgamated both Nor
(09:33):
Shermine and lacrosse. And this isthe orange jersey with the green shoulders,
and this is taken in Victoria.That's me with the golden ball. Was
provincial championship and during a delayed penalty, I ran up stood in front of
the theircrease. Our forward had shotand bounced off one of the defenders and
(09:58):
it came straight towards towards me.So I picked it up and turned and
scored with a goalie stick. Soit's a record that I stood provincially for
twenty five years until rick Man brokeit twenty five years later in a provincial
later got to play with him.I saw him a lot in New ass
(10:18):
Yeah, I still have that ballin my wow in my studio. What's
funny about They hung it from ahuge ribbon. I mean, little ribbon's
gone now, but it hung ina conspicuous place. And one of my
cousins, who said, that's abeautiful ball, and he let it go.
It was safe to say a doubledoor. You you you when you
(10:43):
picked up field lacrosse, were yougoalie as well in field lacrosse, yes,
which is a different game altogether.I started that in high school and
my plan was to play football,but they brought in field lacrosse and I
had wrenched my knee playing field.Took a year off and went to play
(11:03):
with Vancouver Fielacrosse Club. Played withthem for twenty five years and got they
were the Barbarians. Barbarians got twonationals out of that. Yeah, and
this is the fame Barbarian Jersey.Kudos to Mickey Maslow cam Brown who were
my coaches managers back then. WhenI first started with Vancouver Barbarians, there
(11:28):
were seventy of us on the team. Wow. So they eventually split up
and I think we had like GeordieDean, Dave Durant. We were all
in the same team for one yearand then the next year they split everybody
up because there was just to us. Yeah, and also won two Tier
ones in Portland Fielacrosse tournament. Therewas a Pacific Coast League that at its
(11:52):
height had forty six teams from allover America and some from Edmonton Calgary.
They combined to bring a field teamdown right, and West Coast was always
represented for West Coast teams including Vancouver. But the challenge in that tournament went
from Friday Saturday Sunday is you haveto go to Whome weekend undefeated. If
(12:16):
you lost the first game, youwent to Tier two. Okay, but
the yeah to be teams like theC Spray who have a lot of Hall
of famers on there now. Andmy philosophy or coaches philosophy, is that
if you can pass, pass andcatching this game, you could win.
(12:37):
No thirty second clock in field.Right, So we had some elite players,
but that was our philosophy. Ifthey didn't get the ball and we
held onto it, we do,we could win. Well, it's true,
it's ball control. It's control.Can't score if you've got the ball.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, SoI took my skills there into into
box being a quick release goalie.Just get the ball out of the creased
(13:01):
as fast as you can, transitionas fast as you can. You see
it every day now and elite play, yes, yeah, yeah, it's
get yeah, get on offense.Yeah, it maximize your time on offense.
Yeah. I mean I'm proud tosay it was always top five or
four in my team for assists.Oh yeah, points anyway, so you're
(13:24):
like a quarterback quarterback in anyway.Yeah, and also took that like in
field. I'm sure you know you'realways yelling out the position of the bawl.
Yes, I took that to boxas well. Talk to defenseman always.
Talk is very useful. It isthe other team here, is it
too? Yeah, And it's likehaving an extra man on the field or
(13:45):
the floor. It is. Yeah, gets some thinking twice. Yeah,
yeah, even if nobody does anything. Yeah, thinking right, Yeah,
you burned that second. That's allthe better. Yeah. Yeah. The
last time you played competitively, likein either field or box, like what
like? How why did you play? Yea, Honestly I treated as competitive,
(14:11):
even though there's always mutual respect.Five years ago I had a stroke
and I was playing Tri Cities andthey farm out through a job system,
one hundred and fifty plus players.So the theory is to create the team's
equal Hall of Famer senior A.So this was a master's yes, okay,
(14:33):
yeah no. So two days beforeI had the stroke, I was
playing Wow yeah with Hall of famers, retired senior A players, guys I
used to riot against in the seventies. We've become friends, we've become grandparents
and parents. Like you talk aboutthe healing game part of it, Yeah,
(14:56):
that's the magic. Yes, ittakes thirty forty years times. Yeah,
but when you have that mutual aspectand camaraderie ye has old men.
Yeah, really doesn't really matter whathappened four years ago. It doesn't.
It doesn't, ye, because we'rehere playing the game. Yeah. Yeah,
it's just that. So you keptplaying and you had a stroke,
(15:18):
and yeah, I wouldn't know thatfrom speaking with you, like you're you
know, you've recovered well from it. It appears to me, I don't
know, you know, I don'tknow your totally. Yeah, totally.
Was there a moment where you werefrightened or anything after the stroke with anything
like like anything there was there wasa moment what I sound on my bed.
(15:43):
I was looking under my bed formy glasses and sat down and my
world changed. I was struck byfear, but I knew enough to pray
in my own way. Yeah.And I remember the teaching from our elders
as a voice going to our longhouse. We're long house people like our
Six Nations family. All right,your house people here. Yeah, it's
(16:04):
going on right now. Yeah,And one of the elders on the floor
said, if you ever go intodeep trauma, sing, So from that
moment, sitting on the bend.I started to sing over and over and
over all the traditional songs I knew, which is probably a couple of hours,
and I would sing those over andover. Then when I got tired
(16:26):
of doing that, it would singrock and blues songs that I knew the
lyrics to a song to me asa song, and it helped me.
I believe, stay here because Icame close, I think, really yeah,
and helped me rewire the brain.Music is an important part of my
life. Got me through that.Good therapist to physiotherapist, Yeah, we're
(16:52):
did you get medical help but thatday or like what happened with like an
ambulance come for you or anything likethat or no. Um. I walked
to the laving room and my bloodpressure machine was okay. My wife was
in another room and it was high, not up normally high. Told her
(17:14):
what was going on, and withintwo minutes she had me in the car
going to emerge. Okay, yeah, yeah, and that was after you
sang for a few hours on yourown, No, within minutes after after
the blood pressure tests, so Iwas on the way to the hospital.
Within five minutes after the stroke kitOkay, yeah, when did you you
(17:36):
when did you use song to rewireyourself? As you say, especially through
that first month I was, Iwas, I had to learn to walk
again. Talking wasn't a problem.A bit of numbness, a bit of
vertigo. But the physiotherapist, anytimemy eyes open, I would say,
(17:56):
from the time I went to sleep, Wow, would saying I still do
it today another musician, probably nosurprisement. Yeah, yeah, just find
it helps keep those moments occupied,busy, and it's positive, positive,
always positive, yeah, always positive. Yeah. Yeah. So you stopped
(18:21):
playing lacrosse like five years ago orso. Yeah, that's amazing you played
that long, you know too,loved it. Yeah. I got clear
to go back five months ago.My doctor retired and I got a new
doctor, did the physical thing,the baseline thing, talked about lacrosse and
she said, you don't play anymoreand I said no. She said,
(18:44):
well you can go back now.That made my day. I need to
lose like maybe twenty pounds and I'llget back to it. Goalie, you
want to put on twenty. Itwas always the envy of other goalies,
this little pot belly goalies, likelittle pop billies. I don't know why,
Like I want one of those.They would say to me, Yeah,
(19:07):
cost a lot to get this right, h have you coached at all?
Uh? You know the like thegame? Have you? Yeah?
I have four boys and I coachedthem all. Oh okay, yeah,
and my youngest he was drafted,um to Nanaimo Senior A during COVID Okay,
(19:29):
okay, and then yeah, thatkind of shut everything down for that
year. But last year he playedwith the Grizzlies the Arena Lacrosse League.
Oh yeah, so he played withyeah, Elite Division NLL players, Senior
A players, graduating Junior A playerswho missed that year. Okay, so
they went to draft system and um, they're playing as we speak, I
(19:52):
believe, and that that is whatleague is that that they're playing, that
he's playing it? What's it calledArena Lacrosse League? And is that where
does that? What does that encompass? Like? Which is it all British
Columbia or all guys who were bornhere? I want to move here or
live here. So they're all NLLplayers, CIRA players who want to try
(20:17):
out and play, and Junior Adraftees. But the teams were all in
like this area, they're all yeah, they're all wearing Native design jerseys.
Okay, yeah, yeah, hewas Grizzlies, there was Golden Eagles.
List goes on. Oh okay,yeah. They work out a Langley event
(20:38):
center. Oh okay, yeah,and did you uh so you coach your
sons and you have four sons andthey all played, and how old are
they now? The oldest is fortyfive and the youngest is twenty two,
And I still coach goalies, likeeven at my nephew twenty brought me on.
(20:59):
Has a an elder for the team. You see, I grew up
from novice all the way to seniorball. There was always an elder in
the room. He was like thegrounding force, right, who was the
humor force? Right? Who wasthe inspiration force? Yeah? So he
brought that perspective, yeah yeah,yeah, right, yeah, so he
(21:25):
brought me on in every minute anda half, two minutes before game time,
I would get up and share teachings, share inspiration from those old people,
and just be an echo for themthe stuff I'd learned, Like,
there's nothing in this heart minded spiritthat I wouldn't share with any goaltender or
team. Right, you know,it's it's about growing the game for me
(21:45):
and keeping it alive and moving andloving it whichever way I can with the
game along with coaching, did youever like manage a team, team or
anything like that side of it oryeah in the late eighties, Um,
the Baker family managed the team wellup into the eighties than they were going
(22:11):
to take a break that me andmy wife managed for a couple of years
the senior B team. Yeah,not sure, Indians. Yeah, that's
a that's a challenge, you knowwhen you're dealing with players and their lives
and trying to get everyone going inthe right direction. And that's true.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, AndI learned even then just get the players,
(22:33):
get a good coach, just letthem have about it. Yeah,
you know, other than the goaltendingduties, which I still do even minor
players. I still coach, Yeah, goaltending. What's your biggest advice to
a new goaltender? Actually, I'mcoaching Stan Joseph's great grandson, and I
(22:56):
told him after I interviewed his greatgrandpa when I was fifteen, I did
a paper that I handed into myEnglish teacher, and I did all the
questions that I was asked to do. Then some the hour turned into four
hours, talked about his diet,talked about the spiritual side of the game
(23:18):
for him. But in the end, I just started freestyling like a play
by play color commentator from a goaltender'sperspective. I did three pages of that
and handed it in and to me, it's about what they commonly called now
visualization. So that's what I incorporated. I tell my goalies, if you're
(23:41):
going to commit to this game,become a student of the game, not
only within, but you watch othergoaltenders. You learn from them by watching,
but practice your visualization. I wastelling them they're saves I have in
my head that I haven't done yet. And that's the magic of imagination.
(24:03):
And it does work. It doeswork if you place yourself in the place,
in time, down the road.It's magic. It's pure magic.
So it's commonplace now. I showedthree people that paper back then at a
fifteen year old. Two of themsaid I was crazy. The other one
said that's nice. So I nevershowed anybody, but I took that tool
(24:29):
and internalized it, right Rhea,Yeah, I think a lot can be
accomplished with positive thought versus negative thought. Yeah, you know you're gonna get
further alot. Yeah, without adoubt. Yeah, totally. Not everything
will work out the way you thinkit will. You'll still be moving forward,
(24:51):
right, you know. And Ihave had the best and worst of
coaches in that perspective. Yes,but that's always my philosophy. You always
lead on the positive side. There'sa discipline that can be picked up and
taught. You learned something from everybody. You learned something from everybody in each
other yeah yeah, right, yeah, some more valuable than other, but
(25:11):
you know, but something right.So yeah, yeah, this lacrostic is
a second generation. I've certainly seenbetter days. But what I did was
as a result of an injury tomy back. I took a field mesh
and over a period of two weeks, figured out how to incorporate it into
(25:34):
a goalie stick. It's commonplace now, yeah, but in late eighties it
was rare. But I like tothink I inspired what we see today in
commonplace and Pro League, another andsenior eight. But uh yeah, so
I designed it. It took metwo weeks to figure it out. One
(25:57):
good thing about it is what you'vesaid it you just leave it. What
does this game meant to you?Oh? It's to me. I think
we touched on the healing part ofthe game. You're coming from an indigenous
background. I have faith, belief, and trust, and without a doubt,
(26:25):
there's always racism in the game.But when you have those three things
that I've grown up with and it'sa tool in you can you can't own
it. Am I human? Yeah? I'm human? Yea. But was
to help other people along the way, and sometimes in real time on the
(26:47):
floor, talking to players on thefloor that I'm crunching in the backboards.
I would scream at him just playthe game because they were better in US,
A lot of them were in thisparticular year. They were better in
US. But how to Philadelphia Flyersbleak kind of mentality? Right right,
We're playing the game across across theboard. I mean, we beat them
(27:07):
a probably eighty percent of the time, but if they stuck to the game,
they would have probably beat us.So I'm trying to tell him in
real time, just playing the game, You're gonna do fine. This is
a story though shown He tell aboutthe creator. The game's being played in
the sky world and there's a warriorwho is not playing correctly, and the
(27:30):
creator talks to him one time,it says, you're not playing correctly,
and he talks to him again,you're not playing correctly. The guy does
it again. You know, he'splaying too rough, you know, no
respect, you know. And sothe third time, the creator puts him
into a hickory treat like, driveshim right into it and lets him sit
(27:56):
there for whatever amount of time,right as medicine, And the players sat
there and reflected for however long itwas, and then the creator came back,
well, what are you think You'reready to play again? And the
player had learned the lesson of themedicine and you know in the hickory being
(28:21):
so important with the sticks and thatsort of thing, you know, and
coming back to the game and playingthe right way. And that's the story
they tell, you know. Yeah, it's beautiful. Yeah, it power
the game right. You know.I've seen kids along the way that are
on the wrong path because something happenedto in their family or whatever. And
(28:44):
it's amazing. What's sport in general, but lacrosse specifically can do to give
direction and team it's a team sport. You know. It's the only medicine
game in the world that is teamoriented. You know, there's zen things
like martial arts and archery and thatare individual kind of connection. But I
(29:08):
don't know of any other than lacrosseas a team game. That's a medicine
game, you know. Yeah,yeah, it's like you know, it's
the game. Yea, so true. I wonder do you think long stick
came to the West Coast? Iknow, like from the the pure modern
(29:30):
game will call you know, wascreated in like eighteen sixty seven with the
rules, but doctor George Beers theSalmon Bellies picked up the game probably certainly
early eighteen eighties, if not lateeighteen seventies, you know, like it,
it became a force across this nationto yeah, absolutely the national game
(29:52):
without being officially the national game.You feel long stick was with the squamish
like before then and longer than.Like I'm just fright, I believe so,
not only here, but I havean elder from the interior, okay,
and they still play today with longsticks. And it's just a straight
stick. The straight stick. Theobjective no no net on it, no
(30:15):
no net on it. But theobjective is to get a disc that's hollow
in the middle onto a plate.Okay, a couple hundred yards apart,
and there's hundreds of people playing.Yeah, and once you've hit that plate
and get it on there, thegame's over. But yeah, I mean
there's always injuries, um, respectfor sure. And I think here having
(30:40):
heard from that great Granny like astick was a part of the game as
well. You know, stickball gamesvery ancient. Yeah, it's goes.
It's just natural. I think youknow that you know there's an object there,
an extension you know, out toyour hand and and something you want
to do with it to measure yaas you what you do, right,
(31:03):
it seems like it's a you knowwhat I've gone with Alfie Jack's the great
holding a Shawny stickmaker, and we'vetraveled to Oklahoma together to see stickball or
two stick Capuca toli. I don'tknow if you're familiar with that game.
They single post goals thirty on aside, you know, on a football
(31:27):
field. The sticks they have twosticks ball but the size of a golf
ball, but leather, you know, woven and they trap it between the
two sticks. And the rules arevery much like rugby, where you can
tackle the person with the ball.It's twelve officials on the field. They
(31:48):
don't call anything. Your job isto throw the ball in. Their job
is to throw the ball in,you know, and keep the play going.
If you score a goal, whichtwenty five yards on the run,
they can pick off the post.Right. Yeah, it's quite amazing,
like what Alphie and I had alwaysdropped of going down there. It was
(32:10):
just such an adventure, you know, to see it's the Choctaw nation.
Yeah, you know that we sawplaying it really is. It's uh,
and they you know, that's theirgame. It's andy. They do play
for the entertainment of the creator,you know, you know, but it's
a different form of the game.And then a Shanabi played with great lake
(32:30):
sticks with the small heads with theyou know, it's a simple pocket in
it. And you know they playthat again a stick, but it's a
it's a little different than the backEast big mog and and uh, you
know all the other nations have playedlong stick you know, uh, back
in the day. So it's it'sit's very interesting to see, but it's
(32:52):
a stick in a ball. Nonetheless, you know that it's played that way.
Yeah, my understanding. It's beenplayed from the Arctic Circle all the
way down to Mexico and found inarchaeological sites these type of sticks and balls.
And yeah, the Irish their gameof hurling goes back three thousand years.
(33:15):
You know, So this is anatural I believe, a natural thing.
Yeah, it really is. Youknow, it's always been something you
know that people like to play andyou know tests themselves and yeah, learn
it. You know, for thefuture of this game. What you've played
(33:37):
it for a long time and you'vecoached and you've managed, and what do
you what do you think needs tohappen for continued health of the game in
the long run, and that kindof on a number of different fronts.
Actually, um, it's happening now, but it needs to get bigger on
(33:58):
the broader spectrum. I think thecore rations needs to pick it up.
There's no reason that this could beas big as any other ball game that's
played in media now. Yea,and as we all know them all.
We see it every Sunday, wesee it in arenas with a national across
league. But I think if itgot bigger to kind of get through that
(34:22):
whatever that stigma it is. AndI have my own ideas what that is
to broaden that spectrum. But becausewhen you look at pro balls with the
used balls, whether it's hockey orfootball or basketball, they're all scheduled throughout
the area. Lacrosse needs to findtheir niche in there and either replace it
(34:49):
and take its natural place. That'sgoing to take time. But I think
the part I'm really proud of beinga part of it is the healing with
the those people. There's ninety fourpart points to the truth and reconciliation.
Yeah, the document, and Imet with the president of BCLA about a
year and a half ago and theyadopted five of the relevant points for the
(35:14):
BCLA and they sent it off toCLA and they adopted it. And that's
a result of my nephew asking meto Tawanna to meet with him and talk
about truth and reconciliation and what itmeans. I think once that gets hold
and practiced more and more, andI've seen it even this last year at
(35:35):
the Mental Cup, nine acknowledgements weredone there. It's going to help.
It's a healing game. It's goingto help this country in this world be
in a better place. So Ithink of the more where we do that.
Wherever you're playing, look to thelocal nation, look to the local
elder. They're everywhere. Yeah,you'll find them, they'll help. This
(36:00):
game has always brought different nations,different cultures together. Yes, it always
has, you know, and that'sits purpose, you know, because that's
part of the medicine. Right.Anything else you want to say about any
aspect of it or people you playedagainst, some of the great players,
or you know, I think anythinganything, Yeah, you got the I
(36:23):
want to acknowledge. It was probablyin the second time off the rest.
Ever, as a fifteen year old, I went to Victoria and you'll see
the picture later when I was liketwelve as a Pewee, my parents had
to get a permit to leave thevillage with the Indian agent, and that
(36:44):
kind of inherited some of that.We were told not to leave our village
unless we're with somebody that was thatrecent, that recent, not that long
ago. Yeah. So do youhave played against Gaylor Paulis Ross Paulis yea,
And it was the last big allNative tournament here and Nanaimo. To
(37:07):
play against him was like, tome a high honor and something that'll carry
with me a long time. Becausehis dad, my grandpa coached Andy Paul.
He brought him to the West Coast. I've heard Andy Paul's name.
Yeah, that's my mother's father.Wow. Wow. So to have that
(37:28):
tournament, and what's interesting about thattournament, it's one of the chiefs in
Nanaimo, there's a few of them. There held a big barbecue for all
the teams and there was three fromhere, the BC and three from six
nations, including the Paulas brothers anddad. Well, there's always rivalry and
(37:51):
it carried over into the barbecue.It could sense the tension, and the
chief who was hosting told his daughterto turn the music off and said,
hey, look, you're in myterritory. Now while you're here, you're
going to get along. The gameis on the floor, not here.
(38:14):
You're going to have all the foodyou want, all the good drinks you
want. By the end of thenight, all those teams that we're having
that tension, including some of us, we're all arm in arm by the
end of the night. Is thatwonderful? But that's what Yeah, I
always appreciated rugby because after the game, they get together, you know what
(38:38):
I mean, and they leave whathappened on the pitch behind and enjoy each
other's company. Afterwards. And Isaw that happen when I came back to
Canada and eighty one I started theToronto Lacrosse Club men's field team and that
league, I guess the box playersnever used to get together after their games,
(39:02):
like, you know, the Peterboroughguys wouldn't talk to the Ashwa guys,
wouldn't talk to the Brapton guys.Yeah, you know, just but
the feeling, because it was social, everybody would go back to the sponsors,
the pub or whatever that sponsored thatparticular club, you know, and
(39:22):
just get together and enjoy each other'scompany, you know, after you know.
And that's the way. And Ithrough playing international across, that's what
we learned from the English and theAustralians. You know's amazing. That's a
personal highlight. And my career isplaying the aunseason Box. Ye when did
(39:42):
you do that? Eighty one eightytwo? Somewhere in there they were over
in eighty right from the World theWorld World. Yeah, was it during
that trip or another trip? Ohyeah, we played against them in Harry,
Jerome. They never wore paths,but they told us to. They
told us before the game to hitthem, which we did and after the
(40:08):
first period. We were up likeeight goals, nine goals, and the
coach came in and said, theplayers don't want you to stop. They
want to learn something. Teach them. If you're going to run the score
up, do it. Yeah.It was like thirty two to two.
Yeah. And at the end ofthe game, they all gathered in the
(40:30):
middle of the floor, put theirhelmets and gloves down face the crowd and
clapped and they got a standing over. Yeah you talk about sportsman. They
just got spank, but they didn'tcare. I want to learn. I
played a year over there in Melbourne. Yeah, and that was it.
(40:50):
After the game, Yeah, theteam's got together, you know, and
that. Yeah, it was arough game, you know, but after
the game like okay, you know, nice shot, you know, you
know I got you that time.Yeah, you know like that, you
know that kind of stuff. Right. So last thing I want to shore,
Yes, if I may, Yes, it's a bit of a story.
(41:13):
Yep. Thirty three years ago wehad a lacrosse banquet on a nor
shore. We were bridesmaids that yearin BC. My family had planned of
burning the next day where we sendthrough ceremony our ancestors food clothing for their
(41:37):
journey. My job and my friend'sjob my uncle actually was to gather the
cedar, chop it all, andwe chop it up and create a table
where we put the food on.And the medicine man and woman opened that
spiritual door to send the food over. And it's like a we believe a
(41:59):
visit and these medicine men and womenhave the ability to talk to our ancestors.
Yeah, yeah, Well the ceremonygoes and part way through the fire
burning on the table, the medicineman comes to me and my uncle and
does this come here? And Ithought, oh no, this can't be
good. We're standing in front ofthe fire. I went deaf. Couldn't
(42:24):
hear a thing? We're in anindustrial area, certainly there's sound of the
crackling to the fire. Before Iwent deaf, I knew enough after being
struck by fear to pray in myown way, and I swear to God
what I heard in my heart mindedbody was thank you next time, do
(42:45):
your homework, always be prepared,and thank you. Then it must have
been about minute and a half maybetwo minutes from death. But towards the
end it was like somebody was takingthe world's volume and turning it up and
own it up and down. ThenI could hear then the medicine man like
a dream. He's like this farin front of my face like a Footney
(43:06):
Odds, and I know him done. And we're taught you never turn your
back on your ancestors. You alwaysback away. So I back away to
where I was standing, and sodoes my friend, my uncle. He
shares the interpretation from the ancestors,none of it included me, and my
friend invites us all my huge familyto go to have lunch in the community.
(43:28):
All on the walk there, Itook him on his elbow and I
say, hey, what was thatabout? And he turns around and he
starts laughing at me. He goes, oh, you They had a message
for you. They told me,next time, be prepared, always do
your homework. And they were doingthis to you, which is our symbol
(43:50):
of gratitude. They were saying,thank you for what you've done gathering the
wood. And that's what I heardat moments before, standing in front of
the fire. It was something.So I found somebody's truck and I just
went and laid on the wheel welland just bald for like a half hour
and I was done. I wasdone with drinking and drugging whatever I was
(44:12):
doing back and mostly drinking. Yeah. Months go by. My uncle's office
is right next to mine. Wehave some lull in our time and we
start talking about the burning and Itell him that story I just told you,
and he starts to cry too.He said, I went deaf that
moment too. I never heard athing. You heard something. But I
(44:36):
quit drinking that day too. Iwas in therapy back then. I was
doing a lot of support work incommunity. I tell my therapist about a
year after this, and she said, what you've done is dear impossible.
It takes the alcoholic maybe five sixtimes to go to therapy to do what
you've done. I said, well, I had better help, bigger help.
(45:00):
She goes, You're right. Sofrom that point on, from that
bring on, I just found everywellness program that I could find and stuck
to it, including lacrosse. Yeah, still helped me back there. Are
you considered a faith keeper, Yeah, I do that work, knowledge keeper,
(45:20):
ledge keeper, ye elder, Ido that work for Vancouver Coastal Health,
an Indigenous acting company called Full CircleProductions, Burnaby Association for Community inclusion,
They work with people with disabilities,indigenizing and strategic planning here and there.
We just finished a five year strapplan for their staff and their patrons.
(45:45):
Yeah, so all that kind ofwork helps. Sitting with those great
grannies and being that ceremony sure helps. Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, Dennis,
thank you for coming today. I'lluse yahweh and Mike, which what's
(46:06):
m O c M, yeah,my friend oh c M. Yeah,
wonderful, Okay, thank you
Quitch. Tall's my ancestral name.Dennis Joseph is my given name, and
I'm elder statesman lacrosse player from SquamishNation. Do you remember who introduced you
to the game the first person?It was a very kind question from my
dad. He played lacrosse, Hisdad played lacrosse. My mother's father managed,
(00:31):
coached and played box and field lacrosse. So I come from a long
line of lacrosse players. Yes,but my dad asked me if I wanted
to play. I was like six, and of course I was hopeless.
I'm his son. I said yes, yeah, oh play my older brothers.
I have six older brothers and sisters, and the brothers all played.
(00:54):
This is on the top is thefame picture taking out side the old form
in Toronto where nor Shore Indians hadwon the Nationals in Toronto in nineteen thirty
six. So when the picture aretwo, my grandfathers Andy Paul, who
was manager, coach, and StanJoseph is also in there. He's right
(01:19):
here. Wow. Yeah, that'smy dad's Dado. Yeah. Yeah.
So there's guys from six nations,including the Bomberries Martins. They're now in
the BC Sports Hall of Fame.As well, along with Simon Baker.
He asked me to help. Tookabout a year to get pictures names.
(01:44):
Actually the consultant was Ross Paulos.He was still alive after. We wanted
to make sure that everybody was includedin the Sports Hall of Fame. And
these pictures of these fine men youngmen down below is taken that Mahon Park.
There used to be a lacrosse boxthere. There's a stadium there called
(02:05):
Fenn Burdette that was in behind therewhere this lacrosse box was. Yeah,
with the Squamish nation, it waslacrosse go back as far as say that
as a hod in the Shawnees totheir creation stories. Is if that sort
of relationship or what did it comeout later to be part of the Squamish
culture. The modern era did evolvethere, but there is a variation.
(02:31):
I learned from my great grandmother.I got to see her until it was
fourteen and a half. Her namewas Lizzie, and I talked to her
about the lacrosse game and she sharedthat here for Squamish Coast sailersh it was
more for recreation and village would playagainst village. They would set up two
(02:51):
posts buried in the ground, andthe ball was actually a granite rock,
and the objective was to get theof course the rock between the posts.
You could run it through, throwit through. Um, but that's the
origin of lacrosse here and sticks weresometimes involved too, okay, okay,
(03:13):
so oh you're so so it wasplayed without a stick quite often with a
stick you had a choice, Iguess. And okay, but but probably
different than the long sticks from backwith the yeah and the when that yeah.
Different a little different than that though, Yeah, but again I create.
Was it always referred to as thecreator's game? Uh No, here
(03:37):
was more for recreation, she shared. Okay, but when I dug deep
enough into like even that rock.Yes, when she told me that,
I went and found one on thebeach, it transformed my life. Huh.
My body changed, my spirit change. There's always fear in the game,
but I found strength and just youholding that rock, that ground at
(04:02):
rock. And I still teach thistwo players today, elite players. Yes,
And I posted around, passed around, invite them all to hold it.
What's the size of that rock?It's about yeah, grapefruit like okay,
so bigger than a field lacrosse ball. Or the size of a grape
fruit. Yeah, maybe a bitsmaller. And you know belief from hood
(04:27):
and Shawnee or on a shnabi iseverything has a renda is the term power,
the rocks, the mountain, sea, everything has a power to it.
Would that be a similar situation,very similar? And for me when
I was at that age. Yeah, physically, my my muscle's gone stronger,
(04:49):
my fear was lesson. I alwaystold my players as a coach,
so how old were you then?Fourteen? And that's a big, a
key time in everybody's life. I'dlost my dad at twelve, but I
would go and visit her, likeall of us kids would go and visit
her in her room, and mymother always said to keep her company.
(05:13):
But really it was to be taught, to be taught from the history of
Squamish and language of Squamish, likethe story I just shared with you about
the rock. She didn't speak muchEnglish barely. I'm only the third generation
to be speaking this language. Soit's not that long ago, you know,
in terms of history, it's notthat long ago. Yeah, yeah,
(05:36):
but the spirit sign I created myselfjust yeah, to take my tools
to the game, as it were, When did you become a goalie?
I started playing ball hockey first,Okay. Then after my dad coached me
and my uncle Albert started coaching meand his sons I used to play ball
hockey with okay, and they toldher dad, who's the coach at deal,
(06:00):
this is a great goal, youshould put him in that. Okay.
So it was a little relocked onthat first until I saw my Hall
of Famer uncle Stan Joseph Senior comeout of retirement in his mid forties and
North Shore and people just stood up, hundreds of people that Harry Jerome Arena
stood up in the game, standingup and he stood there for maybe ten
(06:21):
minutes, ten minutes, everybody,everybody in the room, even though we
were playing an opposing team. Therewas respect, deep respect. So what
I saw that as a twelve yearold, twelve and a half year old,
it's like, yeah, it's awatershed moment. I want to do
that. I'm going to be that. Yeah. Would you say that this
(06:43):
game is a medicine game for you? It is great medicine game got me
through boy back then unspoken grief.Yeah. And it wasn't until I started
to be a young man that Istarted to work on myself and the game
definitely got me through those tough times. Yes, I mean I would talk
(07:04):
to my uncles who were some ofthem were coaches, including Stan, and
the cultural teachings is you could askthem to be your father. And I
approached three of them and they allsaid, yes, they knew the teaching.
Your uncle's become your replacement dads.And even though I didn't see them
day to day all the times,a couple of them, one I did
(07:25):
because he's he's my uncle, buthe's like five years older than me.
We grew up more like brothers.Yes, yeah, so even though not
a father figure, who's an importantfigure in my life from that generation above
me. Incredible guy. How oldwere you when you think you would be
when you became a Goali? Howold do you think you were at that
(07:46):
point? Roughly probably twelve, Sothis is me probably nineteen sixty eight.
As to me playing goal, Thereyou are, and my brother's in here
right here, Patrick, he's ayear older. So we would reconnect every
other year, playing the same teamin the minor system. Yeah, you
(08:07):
were reluctant at first, but thenyou reluctant. Um. I think my
big release was being physical as adefenseman. Yes, it was part of
my healing. I jost lost mydad. Yes, and the physical part
of game sure helped. Yes,a release if you will, Yeah,
fairly, we're taught by coaches.Even then, yes, leave it on
(08:28):
the floor once the game's over,the whistle goes, shakens, you move
on. Yes, but that physicalpart was certainly helpful as a a tween,
A tween, you know, twelveyear old. Yes, yeah,
yeah. It's a tough, toughtime of life right there. Yeah yeah,
yeah. Were you successful in lacrossegoal right from the beginning, like,
(08:50):
yeah, it seemed like you werethe right spot, Yes, the
right spot right time. Yeah.Um, got lots of kudos from fellow
players over time, and guys areplaying against even as a peewee when I
started playing, got a few teamtrophies, some league trophies. It's always
(09:11):
nice to get those in that recognitionand um, that's support. Ultimately in
the end, just to carry onand be better, do better. That
was my personal philosophy. I couldalways do better, sure, always.
I'm still a peewee in this one. This is after we amalgamated both Nor
(09:33):
Shermine and lacrosse. And this isthe orange jersey with the green shoulders,
and this is taken in Victoria.That's me with the golden ball. Was
provincial championship and during a delayed penalty, I ran up stood in front of
the theircrease. Our forward had shotand bounced off one of the defenders and
(09:58):
it came straight towards towards me.So I picked it up and turned and
scored with a goalie stick. Soit's a record that I stood provincially for
twenty five years until rick Man brokeit twenty five years later in a provincial
later got to play with him.I saw him a lot in New ass
(10:18):
Yeah, I still have that ballin my wow in my studio. What's
funny about They hung it from ahuge ribbon. I mean, little ribbon's
gone now, but it hung ina conspicuous place. And one of my
cousins, who said, that's abeautiful ball, and he let it go.
It was safe to say a doubledoor. You you you when you
(10:43):
picked up field lacrosse, were yougoalie as well in field lacrosse, yes,
which is a different game altogether.I started that in high school and
my plan was to play football,but they brought in field lacrosse and I
had wrenched my knee playing field.Took a year off and went to play
(11:03):
with Vancouver Fielacrosse Club. Played withthem for twenty five years and got they
were the Barbarians. Barbarians got twonationals out of that. Yeah, and
this is the fame Barbarian Jersey.Kudos to Mickey Maslow cam Brown who were
my coaches managers back then. WhenI first started with Vancouver Barbarians, there
(11:28):
were seventy of us on the team. Wow. So they eventually split up
and I think we had like GeordieDean, Dave Durant. We were all
in the same team for one yearand then the next year they split everybody
up because there was just to us. Yeah, and also won two Tier
ones in Portland Fielacrosse tournament. Therewas a Pacific Coast League that at its
(11:52):
height had forty six teams from allover America and some from Edmonton Calgary.
They combined to bring a field teamdown right, and West Coast was always
represented for West Coast teams including Vancouver. But the challenge in that tournament went
from Friday Saturday Sunday is you haveto go to Whome weekend undefeated. If
(12:16):
you lost the first game, youwent to Tier two. Okay, but
the yeah to be teams like theC Spray who have a lot of Hall
of famers on there now. Andmy philosophy or coaches philosophy, is that
if you can pass, pass andcatching this game, you could win.
(12:37):
No thirty second clock in field.Right, So we had some elite players,
but that was our philosophy. Ifthey didn't get the ball and we
held onto it, we do,we could win. Well, it's true,
it's ball control. It's control.Can't score if you've got the ball.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, SoI took my skills there into into
box being a quick release goalie.Just get the ball out of the creased
(13:01):
as fast as you can, transitionas fast as you can. You see
it every day now and elite play, yes, yeah, yeah, it's
get yeah, get on offense.Yeah, it maximize your time on offense.
Yeah. I mean I'm proud tosay it was always top five or
four in my team for assists.Oh yeah, points anyway, so you're
(13:24):
like a quarterback quarterback in anyway.Yeah, and also took that like in
field. I'm sure you know you'realways yelling out the position of the bawl.
Yes, I took that to boxas well. Talk to defenseman always.
Talk is very useful. It isthe other team here, is it
too? Yeah, And it's likehaving an extra man on the field or
(13:45):
the floor. It is. Yeah, gets some thinking twice. Yeah,
yeah, even if nobody does anything. Yeah, thinking right, Yeah,
you burned that second. That's allthe better. Yeah. Yeah. The
last time you played competitively, likein either field or box, like what
like? How why did you play? Yea, Honestly I treated as competitive,
(14:11):
even though there's always mutual respect.Five years ago I had a stroke
and I was playing Tri Cities andthey farm out through a job system,
one hundred and fifty plus players.So the theory is to create the team's
equal Hall of Famer senior A.So this was a master's yes, okay,
(14:33):
yeah no. So two days beforeI had the stroke, I was
playing Wow yeah with Hall of famers, retired senior A players, guys I
used to riot against in the seventies. We've become friends, we've become grandparents
and parents. Like you talk aboutthe healing game part of it, Yeah,
(14:56):
that's the magic. Yes, ittakes thirty forty years times. Yeah,
but when you have that mutual aspectand camaraderie ye has old men.
Yeah, really doesn't really matter whathappened four years ago. It doesn't.
It doesn't, ye, because we'rehere playing the game. Yeah. Yeah,
it's just that. So you keptplaying and you had a stroke,
(15:18):
and yeah, I wouldn't know thatfrom speaking with you, like you're you
know, you've recovered well from it. It appears to me, I don't
know, you know, I don'tknow your totally. Yeah, totally.
Was there a moment where you werefrightened or anything after the stroke with anything
like like anything there was there wasa moment what I sound on my bed.
(15:43):
I was looking under my bed formy glasses and sat down and my
world changed. I was struck byfear, but I knew enough to pray
in my own way. Yeah.And I remember the teaching from our elders
as a voice going to our longhouse. We're long house people like our
Six Nations family. All right,your house people here. Yeah, it's
(16:04):
going on right now. Yeah,And one of the elders on the floor
said, if you ever go intodeep trauma, sing, So from that
moment, sitting on the bend.I started to sing over and over and
over all the traditional songs I knew, which is probably a couple of hours,
and I would sing those over andover. Then when I got tired
(16:26):
of doing that, it would singrock and blues songs that I knew the
lyrics to a song to me asa song, and it helped me.
I believe, stay here because Icame close, I think, really yeah,
and helped me rewire the brain.Music is an important part of my
life. Got me through that.Good therapist to physiotherapist, Yeah, we're
(16:52):
did you get medical help but thatday or like what happened with like an
ambulance come for you or anything likethat or no. Um. I walked
to the laving room and my bloodpressure machine was okay. My wife was
in another room and it was high, not up normally high. Told her
(17:14):
what was going on, and withintwo minutes she had me in the car
going to emerge. Okay, yeah, yeah, and that was after you
sang for a few hours on yourown, No, within minutes after after
the blood pressure tests, so Iwas on the way to the hospital.
Within five minutes after the stroke kitOkay, yeah, when did you you
(17:36):
when did you use song to rewireyourself? As you say, especially through
that first month I was, Iwas, I had to learn to walk
again. Talking wasn't a problem.A bit of numbness, a bit of
vertigo. But the physiotherapist, anytimemy eyes open, I would say,
(17:56):
from the time I went to sleep, Wow, would saying I still do
it today another musician, probably nosurprisement. Yeah, yeah, just find
it helps keep those moments occupied,busy, and it's positive, positive,
always positive, yeah, always positive. Yeah. Yeah. So you stopped
(18:21):
playing lacrosse like five years ago orso. Yeah, that's amazing you played
that long, you know too,loved it. Yeah. I got clear
to go back five months ago.My doctor retired and I got a new
doctor, did the physical thing,the baseline thing, talked about lacrosse and
she said, you don't play anymoreand I said no. She said,
(18:44):
well you can go back now.That made my day. I need to
lose like maybe twenty pounds and I'llget back to it. Goalie, you
want to put on twenty. Itwas always the envy of other goalies,
this little pot belly goalies, likelittle pop billies. I don't know why,
Like I want one of those.They would say to me, Yeah,
(19:07):
cost a lot to get this right, h have you coached at all?
Uh? You know the like thegame? Have you? Yeah?
I have four boys and I coachedthem all. Oh okay, yeah,
and my youngest he was drafted,um to Nanaimo Senior A during COVID Okay,
(19:29):
okay, and then yeah, thatkind of shut everything down for that
year. But last year he playedwith the Grizzlies the Arena Lacrosse League.
Oh yeah, so he played withyeah, Elite Division NLL players, Senior
A players, graduating Junior A playerswho missed that year. Okay, so
they went to draft system and um, they're playing as we speak, I
(19:52):
believe, and that that is whatleague is that that they're playing, that
he's playing it? What's it calledArena Lacrosse League? And is that where
does that? What does that encompass? Like? Which is it all British
Columbia or all guys who were bornhere? I want to move here or
live here. So they're all NLLplayers, CIRA players who want to try
(20:17):
out and play, and Junior Adraftees. But the teams were all in
like this area, they're all yeah, they're all wearing Native design jerseys.
Okay, yeah, yeah, hewas Grizzlies, there was Golden Eagles.
List goes on. Oh okay,yeah. They work out a Langley event
(20:38):
center. Oh okay, yeah,and did you uh so you coach your
sons and you have four sons andthey all played, and how old are
they now? The oldest is fortyfive and the youngest is twenty two,
And I still coach goalies, likeeven at my nephew twenty brought me on.
(20:59):
Has a an elder for the team. You see, I grew up
from novice all the way to seniorball. There was always an elder in
the room. He was like thegrounding force, right, who was the
humor force? Right? Who wasthe inspiration force? Yeah? So he
brought that perspective, yeah yeah,yeah, right, yeah, so he
(21:25):
brought me on in every minute anda half, two minutes before game time,
I would get up and share teachings, share inspiration from those old people,
and just be an echo for themthe stuff I'd learned, Like,
there's nothing in this heart minded spiritthat I wouldn't share with any goaltender or
team. Right, you know,it's it's about growing the game for me
(21:45):
and keeping it alive and moving andloving it whichever way I can with the
game along with coaching, did youever like manage a team, team or
anything like that side of it oryeah in the late eighties, Um,
the Baker family managed the team wellup into the eighties than they were going
(22:11):
to take a break that me andmy wife managed for a couple of years
the senior B team. Yeah,not sure, Indians. Yeah, that's
a that's a challenge, you knowwhen you're dealing with players and their lives
and trying to get everyone going inthe right direction. And that's true.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, AndI learned even then just get the players,
(22:33):
get a good coach, just letthem have about it. Yeah,
you know, other than the goaltendingduties, which I still do even minor
players. I still coach, Yeah, goaltending. What's your biggest advice to
a new goaltender? Actually, I'mcoaching Stan Joseph's great grandson, and I
(22:56):
told him after I interviewed his greatgrandpa when I was fifteen, I did
a paper that I handed into myEnglish teacher, and I did all the
questions that I was asked to do. Then some the hour turned into four
hours, talked about his diet,talked about the spiritual side of the game
(23:18):
for him. But in the end, I just started freestyling like a play
by play color commentator from a goaltender'sperspective. I did three pages of that
and handed it in and to me, it's about what they commonly called now
visualization. So that's what I incorporated. I tell my goalies, if you're
(23:41):
going to commit to this game,become a student of the game, not
only within, but you watch othergoaltenders. You learn from them by watching,
but practice your visualization. I wastelling them they're saves I have in
my head that I haven't done yet. And that's the magic of imagination.
(24:03):
And it does work. It doeswork if you place yourself in the place,
in time, down the road.It's magic. It's pure magic.
So it's commonplace now. I showedthree people that paper back then at a
fifteen year old. Two of themsaid I was crazy. The other one
said that's nice. So I nevershowed anybody, but I took that tool
(24:29):
and internalized it, right Rhea,Yeah, I think a lot can be
accomplished with positive thought versus negative thought. Yeah, you know you're gonna get
further alot. Yeah, without adoubt. Yeah, totally. Not everything
will work out the way you thinkit will. You'll still be moving forward,
(24:51):
right, you know. And Ihave had the best and worst of
coaches in that perspective. Yes,but that's always my philosophy. You always
lead on the positive side. There'sa discipline that can be picked up and
taught. You learned something from everybody. You learned something from everybody in each
other yeah yeah, right, yeah, some more valuable than other, but
(25:11):
you know, but something right.So yeah, yeah, this lacrostic is
a second generation. I've certainly seenbetter days. But what I did was
as a result of an injury tomy back. I took a field mesh
and over a period of two weeks, figured out how to incorporate it into
(25:34):
a goalie stick. It's commonplace now, yeah, but in late eighties it
was rare. But I like tothink I inspired what we see today in
commonplace and Pro League, another andsenior eight. But uh yeah, so
I designed it. It took metwo weeks to figure it out. One
(25:57):
good thing about it is what you'vesaid it you just leave it. What
does this game meant to you?Oh? It's to me. I think
we touched on the healing part ofthe game. You're coming from an indigenous
background. I have faith, belief, and trust, and without a doubt,
(26:25):
there's always racism in the game.But when you have those three things
that I've grown up with and it'sa tool in you can you can't own
it. Am I human? Yeah? I'm human? Yea. But was
to help other people along the way, and sometimes in real time on the
(26:47):
floor, talking to players on thefloor that I'm crunching in the backboards.
I would scream at him just playthe game because they were better in US,
A lot of them were in thisparticular year. They were better in
US. But how to Philadelphia Flyersbleak kind of mentality? Right right,
We're playing the game across across theboard. I mean, we beat them
(27:07):
a probably eighty percent of the time, but if they stuck to the game,
they would have probably beat us.So I'm trying to tell him in
real time, just playing the game, You're gonna do fine. This is
a story though shown He tell aboutthe creator. The game's being played in
the sky world and there's a warriorwho is not playing correctly, and the
(27:30):
creator talks to him one time,it says, you're not playing correctly,
and he talks to him again,you're not playing correctly. The guy does
it again. You know, he'splaying too rough, you know, no
respect, you know. And sothe third time, the creator puts him
into a hickory treat like, driveshim right into it and lets him sit
(27:56):
there for whatever amount of time,right as medicine, And the players sat
there and reflected for however long itwas, and then the creator came back,
well, what are you think You'reready to play again? And the
player had learned the lesson of themedicine and you know in the hickory being
(28:21):
so important with the sticks and thatsort of thing, you know, and
coming back to the game and playingthe right way. And that's the story
they tell, you know. Yeah, it's beautiful. Yeah, it power
the game right. You know.I've seen kids along the way that are
on the wrong path because something happenedto in their family or whatever. And
(28:44):
it's amazing. What's sport in general, but lacrosse specifically can do to give
direction and team it's a team sport. You know. It's the only medicine
game in the world that is teamoriented. You know, there's zen things
like martial arts and archery and thatare individual kind of connection. But I
(29:08):
don't know of any other than lacrosseas a team game. That's a medicine
game, you know. Yeah,yeah, it's like you know, it's
the game. Yea, so true. I wonder do you think long stick
came to the West Coast? Iknow, like from the the pure modern
(29:30):
game will call you know, wascreated in like eighteen sixty seven with the
rules, but doctor George Beers theSalmon Bellies picked up the game probably certainly
early eighteen eighties, if not lateeighteen seventies, you know, like it,
it became a force across this nationto yeah, absolutely the national game
(29:52):
without being officially the national game.You feel long stick was with the squamish
like before then and longer than.Like I'm just fright, I believe so,
not only here, but I havean elder from the interior, okay,
and they still play today with longsticks. And it's just a straight
stick. The straight stick. Theobjective no no net on it, no
(30:15):
no net on it. But theobjective is to get a disc that's hollow
in the middle onto a plate.Okay, a couple hundred yards apart,
and there's hundreds of people playing.Yeah, and once you've hit that plate
and get it on there, thegame's over. But yeah, I mean
there's always injuries, um, respectfor sure. And I think here having
(30:40):
heard from that great Granny like astick was a part of the game as
well. You know, stickball gamesvery ancient. Yeah, it's goes.
It's just natural. I think youknow that you know there's an object there,
an extension you know, out toyour hand and and something you want
to do with it to measure yaas you what you do, right,
(31:03):
it seems like it's a you knowwhat I've gone with Alfie Jack's the great
holding a Shawny stickmaker, and we'vetraveled to Oklahoma together to see stickball or
two stick Capuca toli. I don'tknow if you're familiar with that game.
They single post goals thirty on aside, you know, on a football
(31:27):
field. The sticks they have twosticks ball but the size of a golf
ball, but leather, you know, woven and they trap it between the
two sticks. And the rules arevery much like rugby, where you can
tackle the person with the ball.It's twelve officials on the field. They
(31:48):
don't call anything. Your job isto throw the ball in. Their job
is to throw the ball in,you know, and keep the play going.
If you score a goal, whichtwenty five yards on the run,
they can pick off the post.Right. Yeah, it's quite amazing,
like what Alphie and I had alwaysdropped of going down there. It was
(32:10):
just such an adventure, you know, to see it's the Choctaw nation.
Yeah, you know that we sawplaying it really is. It's uh,
and they you know, that's theirgame. It's andy. They do play
for the entertainment of the creator,you know, you know, but it's
a different form of the game.And then a Shanabi played with great lake
(32:30):
sticks with the small heads with theyou know, it's a simple pocket in
it. And you know they playthat again a stick, but it's a
it's a little different than the backEast big mog and and uh, you
know all the other nations have playedlong stick you know, uh, back
in the day. So it's it'sit's very interesting to see, but it's
(32:52):
a stick in a ball. Nonetheless, you know that it's played that way.
Yeah, my understanding. It's beenplayed from the Arctic Circle all the
way down to Mexico and found inarchaeological sites these type of sticks and balls.
And yeah, the Irish their gameof hurling goes back three thousand years.
(33:15):
You know, So this is anatural I believe, a natural thing.
Yeah, it really is. Youknow, it's always been something you
know that people like to play andyou know tests themselves and yeah, learn
it. You know, for thefuture of this game. What you've played
(33:37):
it for a long time and you'vecoached and you've managed, and what do
you what do you think needs tohappen for continued health of the game in
the long run, and that kindof on a number of different fronts.
Actually, um, it's happening now, but it needs to get bigger on
(33:58):
the broader spectrum. I think thecore rations needs to pick it up.
There's no reason that this could beas big as any other ball game that's
played in media now. Yea,and as we all know them all.
We see it every Sunday, wesee it in arenas with a national across
league. But I think if itgot bigger to kind of get through that
(34:22):
whatever that stigma it is. AndI have my own ideas what that is
to broaden that spectrum. But becausewhen you look at pro balls with the
used balls, whether it's hockey orfootball or basketball, they're all scheduled throughout
the area. Lacrosse needs to findtheir niche in there and either replace it
(34:49):
and take its natural place. That'sgoing to take time. But I think
the part I'm really proud of beinga part of it is the healing with
the those people. There's ninety fourpart points to the truth and reconciliation.
Yeah, the document, and Imet with the president of BCLA about a
year and a half ago and theyadopted five of the relevant points for the
(35:14):
BCLA and they sent it off toCLA and they adopted it. And that's
a result of my nephew asking meto Tawanna to meet with him and talk
about truth and reconciliation and what itmeans. I think once that gets hold
and practiced more and more, andI've seen it even this last year at
(35:35):
the Mental Cup, nine acknowledgements weredone there. It's going to help.
It's a healing game. It's goingto help this country in this world be
in a better place. So Ithink of the more where we do that.
Wherever you're playing, look to thelocal nation, look to the local
elder. They're everywhere. Yeah,you'll find them, they'll help. This
(36:00):
game has always brought different nations,different cultures together. Yes, it always
has, you know, and that'sits purpose, you know, because that's
part of the medicine. Right.Anything else you want to say about any
aspect of it or people you playedagainst, some of the great players,
or you know, I think anythinganything, Yeah, you got the I
(36:23):
want to acknowledge. It was probablyin the second time off the rest.
Ever, as a fifteen year old, I went to Victoria and you'll see
the picture later when I was liketwelve as a Pewee, my parents had
to get a permit to leave thevillage with the Indian agent, and that
(36:44):
kind of inherited some of that.We were told not to leave our village
unless we're with somebody that was thatrecent, that recent, not that long
ago. Yeah. So do youhave played against Gaylor Paulis Ross Paulis yea,
And it was the last big allNative tournament here and Nanaimo. To
(37:07):
play against him was like, tome a high honor and something that'll carry
with me a long time. Becausehis dad, my grandpa coached Andy Paul.
He brought him to the West Coast. I've heard Andy Paul's name.
Yeah, that's my mother's father.Wow. Wow. So to have that
(37:28):
tournament, and what's interesting about thattournament, it's one of the chiefs in
Nanaimo, there's a few of them. There held a big barbecue for all
the teams and there was three fromhere, the BC and three from six
nations, including the Paulas brothers anddad. Well, there's always rivalry and
(37:51):
it carried over into the barbecue.It could sense the tension, and the
chief who was hosting told his daughterto turn the music off and said,
hey, look, you're in myterritory. Now while you're here, you're
going to get along. The gameis on the floor, not here.
(38:14):
You're going to have all the foodyou want, all the good drinks you
want. By the end of thenight, all those teams that we're having
that tension, including some of us, we're all arm in arm by the
end of the night. Is thatwonderful? But that's what Yeah, I
always appreciated rugby because after the game, they get together, you know what
(38:38):
I mean, and they leave whathappened on the pitch behind and enjoy each
other's company. Afterwards. And Isaw that happen when I came back to
Canada and eighty one I started theToronto Lacrosse Club men's field team and that
league, I guess the box playersnever used to get together after their games,
(39:02):
like, you know, the Peterboroughguys wouldn't talk to the Ashwa guys,
wouldn't talk to the Brapton guys.Yeah, you know, just but
the feeling, because it was social, everybody would go back to the sponsors,
the pub or whatever that sponsored thatparticular club, you know, and
(39:22):
just get together and enjoy each other'scompany, you know, after you know.
And that's the way. And Ithrough playing international across, that's what
we learned from the English and theAustralians. You know's amazing. That's a
personal highlight. And my career isplaying the aunseason Box. Ye when did
(39:42):
you do that? Eighty one eightytwo? Somewhere in there they were over
in eighty right from the World theWorld World. Yeah, was it during
that trip or another trip? Ohyeah, we played against them in Harry,
Jerome. They never wore paths,but they told us to. They
told us before the game to hitthem, which we did and after the
(40:08):
first period. We were up likeeight goals, nine goals, and the
coach came in and said, theplayers don't want you to stop. They
want to learn something. Teach them. If you're going to run the score
up, do it. Yeah.It was like thirty two to two.
Yeah. And at the end ofthe game, they all gathered in the
(40:30):
middle of the floor, put theirhelmets and gloves down face the crowd and
clapped and they got a standing over. Yeah you talk about sportsman. They
just got spank, but they didn'tcare. I want to learn. I
played a year over there in Melbourne. Yeah, and that was it.
(40:50):
After the game, Yeah, theteam's got together, you know, and
that. Yeah, it was arough game, you know, but after
the game like okay, you know, nice shot, you know, you
know I got you that time.Yeah, you know like that, you
know that kind of stuff. Right. So last thing I want to shore,
Yes, if I may, Yes, it's a bit of a story.
(41:13):
Yep. Thirty three years ago wehad a lacrosse banquet on a nor
shore. We were bridesmaids that yearin BC. My family had planned of
burning the next day where we sendthrough ceremony our ancestors food clothing for their
(41:37):
journey. My job and my friend'sjob my uncle actually was to gather the
cedar, chop it all, andwe chop it up and create a table
where we put the food on.And the medicine man and woman opened that
spiritual door to send the food over. And it's like a we believe a
(41:59):
visit and these medicine men and womenhave the ability to talk to our ancestors.
Yeah, yeah, Well the ceremonygoes and part way through the fire
burning on the table, the medicineman comes to me and my uncle and
does this come here? And Ithought, oh no, this can't be
good. We're standing in front ofthe fire. I went deaf. Couldn't
(42:24):
hear a thing? We're in anindustrial area, certainly there's sound of the
crackling to the fire. Before Iwent deaf, I knew enough after being
struck by fear to pray in myown way, and I swear to God
what I heard in my heart mindedbody was thank you next time, do
(42:45):
your homework, always be prepared,and thank you. Then it must have
been about minute and a half maybetwo minutes from death. But towards the
end it was like somebody was takingthe world's volume and turning it up and
own it up and down. ThenI could hear then the medicine man like
a dream. He's like this farin front of my face like a Footney
(43:06):
Odds, and I know him done. And we're taught you never turn your
back on your ancestors. You alwaysback away. So I back away to
where I was standing, and sodoes my friend, my uncle. He
shares the interpretation from the ancestors,none of it included me, and my
friend invites us all my huge familyto go to have lunch in the community.
(43:28):
All on the walk there, Itook him on his elbow and I
say, hey, what was thatabout? And he turns around and he
starts laughing at me. He goes, oh, you They had a message
for you. They told me,next time, be prepared, always do
your homework. And they were doingthis to you, which is our symbol
(43:50):
of gratitude. They were saying,thank you for what you've done gathering the
wood. And that's what I heardat moments before, standing in front of
the fire. It was something.So I found somebody's truck and I just
went and laid on the wheel welland just bald for like a half hour
and I was done. I wasdone with drinking and drugging whatever I was
(44:12):
doing back and mostly drinking. Yeah. Months go by. My uncle's office
is right next to mine. Wehave some lull in our time and we
start talking about the burning and Itell him that story I just told you,
and he starts to cry too.He said, I went deaf that
moment too. I never heard athing. You heard something. But I
(44:36):
quit drinking that day too. Iwas in therapy back then. I was
doing a lot of support work incommunity. I tell my therapist about a
year after this, and she said, what you've done is dear impossible.
It takes the alcoholic maybe five sixtimes to go to therapy to do what
you've done. I said, well, I had better help, bigger help.
(45:00):
She goes, You're right. Sofrom that point on, from that
bring on, I just found everywellness program that I could find and stuck
to it, including lacrosse. Yeah, still helped me back there. Are
you considered a faith keeper, Yeah, I do that work, knowledge keeper,
(45:20):
ledge keeper, ye elder, Ido that work for Vancouver Coastal Health,
an Indigenous acting company called Full CircleProductions, Burnaby Association for Community inclusion,
They work with people with disabilities,indigenizing and strategic planning here and there.
We just finished a five year strapplan for their staff and their patrons.
(45:45):
Yeah, so all that kind ofwork helps. Sitting with those great
grannies and being that ceremony sure helps. Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, Dennis,
thank you for coming today. I'lluse yahweh and Mike, which what's
(46:06):
m O c M, yeah,my friend oh c M. Yeah,
wonderful, Okay, thank you
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