July 20, 2023 • 42 mins
Walter “Butch” Goodleaf received his first lacrosse stick at age 7 from his Grandmother. This humble start lead to his well-deserved induction into the Ontario Lacrosse Hall of Fame. He would display unique leadership skills as a Player, Coach and Builder in the Kahnawake community along the way. “Butch” is known for being a team player and possessing great defensive skills, with the ability of creating offense for his Minor and Senior teams. He played on teams that won Quebec Provincial Championships and participated in President Cups and the Commonwealth Games. Goodleaf collected team and league awards that include MVP and All Star team selections. He was well respected by his teammates and was selected Captain many times. He is representative of a by-gone era of Mohawk players that earned their living as steel workers on the eastern seaboard of the USA. Goodleaf is proud of working on the original World Trade Center in New York City and traveling back to Quebec and Ontario overnight on the weekends to play lacrosse. One of his greatest personal off-floor achievements was serving as the sub-chief on the Council responsible for building the Kahnawake Sports Complex and Arena which will be the home of local lacrosse teams for many years to come. Walter Goodleaf’s story is one you want to hear- a tale from a time where love of the game was the main reward for playing.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:06):
Well, I'm really pleased to behere today with Walter Goodleaf here at Gnawogie
and one of the great defensive playersand Gnawogi lacrosse history. And we're gonna
learn a little bit about his timewith the game and his life here at
Gonawogie, and we'll share that witheveryone. So Walter, we start out
(00:28):
with the easiest questions. What wasyour day of birth? I was born
in nineteen forty nine, January thetwenty fifth. The game kind of took
you a few places for lacrosse.Well, I never would have traveled if
it wasn't for the lacrosse, likethe BC, the British Bear British Columbia,
and the Edmonton. I think we'vedone Commonwealth games there. There's New
(00:55):
Brunswick. We had a little demonstrationgame in New Brunswick. So all these
little places that I would have nevergone there unless it was because of lacrosse.
It's taken me in a lot ofplaces. How did you get introduced?
They gave you Remember the person whomaybe gave you your first stick?
I sure do. That's what mademe passionate, passionate about lacrosse. My
(01:21):
grandmother, my late grandmother, usedto live in Brooklyn in New York,
and she used to come and visitevery once in a while. And she
had a brother who married in Augustina, so she used to go and visit,
(01:42):
go and visit him there. Andit's one trip that you made.
She came back with a lacrosse stickfrom the factory over there, and she
gave it to me, and Iwas so taken it back with that stick,
it was amazing. So I wouldnever never leave it out of my
(02:04):
hands. I did everything I couldwith that stick. I practice draws,
shooting on the house, in thenet at the local rink. I just
all the time, practice practice,practice shooting shooting. Learned how to put
in a bridge in the stick.When I started hooking, I learned how
(02:28):
to do that at a young age. Still, this was only about seven
or eight years old. So Ilearned a lot of stuff. And that's
what made me passionate about lacrosse.I loved the game from that point.
And anyone else in your family,like uncles or cousins, were they Was
(02:50):
anyone else playing the game? Yes, certainly was. I had an uncle.
He was about ten years my senior, so at the time he might
have been about eighteen nineteen years old. I was about eight or nine and
I used to go to practice withthem, the guys that were all his
age. Maybe you've heard some ofthe names. They are bigger, all
(03:14):
all Jacobs. That was my uncle'sfriend name Marvin Morris. He was a
good athlete. In fact, hehad won the Thorpe Longboat Award for top
Athlete. I don't know if thatwas I think it was in Canada in
(03:37):
the Indigenous community, so Thorpe LongboatTrophy. He played softball, hockey,
lacrosse, and I'm not sure ifthere was another sport that he did,
but that's he was good at allof them and he was worthy of the
Thorpe Longboat Trophy. Wow. Wow, you know, wasn't there a famous
(03:58):
Morris? Yes? And he heas well won the Thorpe blown Boat Trophy,
but it was for paddling. Hewas uh medalist at the Olympic Games
with Hugh Fisher. They he wona gold in a bronze. I believe
what was his first name again,Alwyn? Alwyn? Yes, yeah,
(04:21):
two medals and uh he also wona Thorpe Longboat Trophy. Really yeah.
Did you get to speak with himmuch when you were growing up or anything.
Yeah. Yeah, we worked togetherher a lot. Oh uh,
like the paddling part, the lacrossewe did. I did the sports briefly
(04:44):
in the minors. Yeah, buthis passion was more paddling. Was he
about your age or was he he'sa little younger, well younger, yeah,
yeah, my cousin. Uh yeah, he's a little bit longer,
younger than I am. When hedid win the gold medals, we prepared
(05:04):
a parade for him here in town. But I sort of coordinated things,
and I was a recreation person atthe time, the recreation director, so
that fell under my portfolio. Iguess we did that. There was another
area where we worked on the naigis North American Indigenous Games for young athletes
(05:41):
from all over States and Canada,and he was instrumental in putting it together.
He used to go to the meetingsall over the place, British column
in the States, but I wason the home front. They gave me
a gold bronze and a silver medalfor what I was doing with Elwyn to
(06:05):
organize the organize the games. Hewasn't for any particular sport, just the
recognition that thank you for what you'vedone in organizing the Indigenous Games. So
one thing I saw and reading aboutyour your history was your involvement as a
(06:26):
sub chief on council and the buildingof the arena that became a place for
lacrosse at other sports. You werevery involved in that process, were you.
Yeah, I was. In fact, it started when I was just
a young follow up. We usedto have to go to Lachine across the
(06:49):
river. Here, we take abus and then he led us off at
sixth Avenue and the arena and Lachinewas on nineteenth Avenue. Get off the
bus and we used to walk allthose blocks to get to the the arena.
And we played in the church leagueat the time, so we didn't
(07:09):
have to travel arena or town totown or anything. It was always in
that one location. But over time, when we became more organized, we
had to travel to other communities toget our ice, and we didn't really
(07:30):
have a home as such. SoI think at that point or way back
then, I felt the need foran arena in our community. You didn't
have any indoor box either, didget No no indoor box. No,
we had outdoor box, but thenthat was dependent on whether again yes,
(07:51):
so it was organization of parents whowere interested in the same thing that it
was, let's build our own facilityhere, let's let's do something. And
so we started on a small scale, little fundraising stuff, pretty successful stuff,
(08:13):
and but it would have taken usforever to reach the goal of building
that that facility. If costs backthen, I'm not sure if it was
in the area of two million dollars. That was pretty big in the nineteen
nineties. Yeah, yeah, itcould have been a lot more. But
(08:35):
uh, in the research that wewere doing as a committee, we looked
at facility that would take care ofour ice needs but also for lacrosse.
So if we would have did thebuilding that we looked at, it would
have been not high enough for lacrosse. So we had to have a higher
(08:56):
roof or higher ceilings to accommodate thelacrosse games that they are going to be
playing. Okay, so this wasalmost like Lachine. They had an arena
where when you walk in the entrance, the ice level was down I had
(09:16):
to dig out, dig get out, put your ice down below. So
you had a higher ceiling and wellbeing on council at the time, it
was kind of convenient to have theconnections that I did with with the council.
(09:39):
Chief Norton was my my buddy,and the rest of the council.
It didn't take too much to convincethem that we did need this facility.
What was the first sport played inthe arena? I'm not sure. I
believe it might have been hockey.Yeah, yeah, I can't remember that.
The exactly is that time of yearwhen it opened? I believe so,
(10:03):
yeah, but I'm not certain.Okay, So how did you get
the nickname Butch? That was myfamily give me that name rate right from
when I was a little a littleuh rug rat. Yeah, that's yeah,
yeah, and that's uh. Peoplestill call me that, the ones
(10:26):
that really knew me, Like Imentioned my my friend Roddy, Yeah,
we grew up together. He stillcalls me Butch and uh Skippy Skippy Norton.
I played sports with him all theway up. He still calls me
Butch. So my friends, teammatesand family still call me. Which.
(10:48):
So you've had a love of thegame for a long time and you couple
with Joe Carrot and he was aleft shot, you were a right shot.
You both were very defense oriented.That's right. He did say you
you scored a fair amount as well. You know that paid off because there's
all the practice that I did,It did payoffs. I had a good
(11:09):
shot. My mother wasn't too crazyabout my practicing, uh, shooting the
ball against the house, and justkept all day long. I just kept.
I actually broke some of the shinglesof the siding on the house,
(11:30):
but I got a good shot.Every true lacrosse family has a story of
a broken window or broken we hadthat too, or the garage with holes
in it. Yeah that's right,Yeah, yeah, that kind of thing.
Yeah. But you and Joe madea great pair. And and really
he had learned from big Al theBuffalo. Yeah. Yeah, one one
(11:56):
place we went there we gave eachother name, and that was that was
his name, big Al Buffalo.Yeah. And who did you learn from?
I learned from my uncle. Well, all his friends that he used
to play with took me on andthey didn't chase me away, you know
when they were practicing. I wasthere with them and you wanted yeah,
(12:22):
and and they didn't chase me away. They took me under the yeah.
Yeah. And guys like big Al, yeah him, he gives h a
pass like a shot. Yeah,he doesn't, he's up put your stick
there. He put it in andhe whips it. At the end of
you practice, my pocket is likethis trying to catch his his Oh yeah,
(12:48):
and well yeah, well that's hewas. He was a good guy
that that sort of took me underthe wing too. And uh, there's
a few others that they're in theireighties, but they're not in the Hall
of Fame or anything, but thatthat's the guys I played with. Yeah,
(13:09):
and you were a captain, youwere an MVP, you were you
you had a lot of hours asa player. Yeah. I wasn't doing
it on purpose as a result ofit. That was it. That's that's
the way I like to play.And uh uh, that's that's how I
learned how to play this game.Whenever I went out there, that's what
(13:31):
I did. I played the gameas hard as I could talk about.
You went through a President's Cup inManitoba Winnipeg. Yeah, yeah, we
didn't fare that well. We've alwayshad good teams and we usually tried to
stay within the community, uh,with our players, taking local, local
(13:58):
guys and yes, at so we'regonna win or lose with what we got.
But I know over time that um, some of the other teams like
we're able to solicit some of ourplayers from the Senior A level and uh
yeah, okay, come with usand we'll play a Senior B championship.
(14:22):
Okay, Well we didn't do that. We we played Senior B and we
stayed most of the time. Westayed with our guys, with our own
local guys that win or lose,we were together. In nineteen seventy eight,
you went to the Commonwealth Games inEdmonton. Yeah, and we played
We'll tell us about that. Wedid a little uh wow, it wasn't
(14:45):
very much. It was more ofa demonstration showing them how the sport is
played. That was basically it.Uh we just made two teams amongst ourselves
and there was enough guys there toput on a good dimension. Six Nations
guys as well. I'm not sureif that's the one. I think we
(15:07):
were we were alone on that one. It's a six Nations versus Okay,
yeah, yeah, yeah, that'sright. So they were part of that
trip. Yeah. And then there'ssomething here about nineteen sixty nine East West
that was I think the BC tripthat we we represented the East and who
(15:33):
was it I forget, I forgetthe actual name of the team out out
west, but that we played aseries like Nanaimo or Squamish or something.
Yeah, yeah, I think wewere in Squamish, so it may have
been them. Okay. Yeah.A lot of people don't know about the
(15:54):
commitment that a lot of iron workersmade maintaining their content with the game and
what it took to do that.Because you guys worked all over the Northeast
States, as you mentioned earlier,you know, but you had games on
the weekend back here in the Gonawagearea, and so talk about what that
was like. Well, well,we used to. We used to travel
(16:18):
to and from work on the weekends. Friday night, you leave New York.
Well, just for example New York, you leave New York, you
get home around eleven twelve o'clock atnight on Friday night. You're home for
the weekend, maybe Saturday. Yougot a lacrosse practice game on Sunday night,
and it's an away game. Okay, today we're going to Sherbrook.
(16:40):
It's an hour, maybe a littlebetter than an hour to drive. The
game starts at eight finishes at aroundten ten thirty. Jump back in the
car again, head for home,pick up your suitcase, jump in another
car, and then head out backto work. Like I said, maybe
(17:00):
in this case New York. Sowe're leaving. We're leaving here at around
midnight. We call it a midnightrun. And depending on how many if
we had four guys in the car, two guys in the car, depends
on which job you're going to.So anyways, we change drivers. One
(17:22):
guy drive maybe to up to Albany. Then the other guy takes it in
from Alberty right into Brooklyn. Youarrive in Brooklyn, and then seven o'clock
in the morning, all the guysare there. They all used to gather
up at a restaurant. There's aand then from there you decentralized to go
to your jobs. Different jobs,catch the subway. This guy takes his
(17:45):
car, he goes to the job. So here we get there at seven
o'clock in the morning, head outto the job, get there in time
to go to work. So thatwas quite a long, long evening and
a long night, and it's goingto be a long day on Monday.
How many years did you do that? H exactly? Roughly? I have
(18:11):
to say maybe about five years.Yes, yeah, well not continuous.
This was off and on, butthat time period five years off and on,
and it's it's summertime, so youknow, lacrosse is summer, so
I didn't have to do that inthe winter. So you you might do
(18:33):
that twelve weeks in a row orsomething like that. No, not necessarily.
It's not always a Sunday Sunday awaygame, okay, And so yeah,
a loot of times that you remember. Yeah, well these places that
are coast by New Jersey, Connecticut, Massachusetts there you're able to travel that
(18:55):
in six hours eight hours. Yeah. Sometimes we did not come back for
maybe three weeks, four weeks ata time. I worked in Detroit for
good, good time period maybe twothree months, and uh we didn't come
back. Maybe every four weeks wecame back, Okay, it was like
(19:17):
maybe ten hour trip. So we'renot going to do that Friday night.
Ten hours on Friday night and thenhours. Yeah. So yeah, we
just stayed there and practice lacrosse.Well, in fact, that's uh,
we ran into Lawrence Martin heard ofLauren. Yeah, he was a good
(19:40):
player for August Snake, big tallfellow. Yeah, we met no bar
In in in Detroit and we haduh our lacrosse sticks with us and inside
the bar. Just wrong. ButRoddy Roddy likes told his stories that what
this Lawrence Martin, he smashed thejukebox. Oh boy, well, usually
(20:11):
people do that when they've heard thesame song play too many times. This
was an accident. Oh yeah,he was quite a player, Lawrence Martin.
I remember him. So when youwere at a job, for instance,
like in New York, you know, iron working job, like how
many guys might have played lacrosse thatweekend somewhere a few or just a few
(20:36):
few, But I guess you wouldhave to be more, you'd have more
da dedication. I'd say, nowI'm gonna play. That's all I really
got started playing with the seniors.The guys had to go away to work,
so they brought me up from ajunior. I guess Eddie Dollarone,
the goaltender, Joe Joker ut thesame thing. They brought us up there.
(21:00):
The guys had to go away towork. It so we got our
initiation into the seniors. Yeah.I talked with guys from Onondaga and they
had to make similar runs. Youknow a little bit. You know,
you're down in Syracuse area a littlebit less, uh, not as far,
but yeah, but the same kindof commitment. Yeah, I've heard
(21:21):
that story, you know, storythrough them as well. Yeah, that's
an amazing story because that's dedicated.Like you do. Hear of guys who
play summer League, uh you knowin the States and they have to make
those trips on the weekend and getback in time. But they're not doing
ironwork, you know. They gottathey gotta sit in front of their desk
and not fall asleep. Yeah.Yeah, but you were a fortunate because
(21:48):
your your son played and then youhave a grand child who plays, right,
Yeah, you've seen a real Ijust no, I think it was
my wife found it for me.But I was looking for some stuff memory
Gilia, and she came up witha little, uh souvenir memento of a
(22:10):
game. It says it's on there. Donawala gave Versus the Green Gales and
the year was two thousand. SoI know that wasn't mine because I played
the Green Gales back in the sixtyI think so at the end of the
late sixties or early seventies, SoI knew that wasn't my medal. But
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it was my son who played againstthe Green Gales in Junior B and in
the year two thousand. He musthave been about seventeen or eighteen at the
time, So that's that's just howmy son. I've been up at Kandasataki
and I've seen the outdoor box thatthey played, right, And I played
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a role in the crisis as theycalled it. Yeah, what, Yeah,
you had some attachment to the crisisin some way or yes, I
did. In fact, it wasuh a few issues that came up at
the time that uh stressed me outquite a bit. And what year was
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that? Roughly? That was innineteen ninety they called that the Oka crisis,
Yes, yes, and I thinkit was just when the Oka thing
started. It was in July andI or August, and we had just
had our elections. So I hadjust gotten in council for my fifth term,
(23:41):
okay or was it the sixth six? Yeah, my last term and
I did not run it in inninety two because of the stress that I
was very much vault. It wasI had. I was involved in some
food runs where we were trying tobring trucks of food in there and we
(24:04):
had army with the machine guns andwhatever on APCs there like like a tank.
Yeah, they were on there andyou had to drive food up.
We're trying to bring food into thecommunity. People. To really understand how
that was, I had a stickmaker up there, Travis Gabriel show me
(24:27):
the air and he showed me sometrees with some bullet holes. Well,
right outside here the tracks you seethe tracks right here at the light right
there is where the army were setup. I'm not sure if it was
all army. I think even hereright here. Yeah, and my brother
passed away at that time. Ohand he was at the mortuary I guess
(24:52):
undertaker and they were bringing him backto gun Ruggins so he could be laid
out. Yeah. Uh, thesepeople wouldn't let them pass. So even
even though you were down here andgot a waggie, that that the army,
you was here even as well?Okay I did. So let me
(25:14):
get to something. Okay. Lacrossehas always been a game that's brought people
together from outside the community with didthat have some sort of role afterward?
They wouldn't come to Gnawaggie. Theyrefused to let us let us play in
the league. Uh. They wouldn'tThey would not come to an arena that
first year. Yeah, that's howdifficult it was. I had to babe,
(25:38):
plead, come on, let's youknow, it's over with. The
kids didn't have anything to do withwhat was going on, right, let's
let them play, leave them alone. No. So it was a good
one one season, maybe even alittle more before got a little better.
It wasn't fully, it wasn't fullya lot of back to normal, but
(26:03):
we were getting there. So thelacrosse here was that played against non native
communities. Yeah, he carried overa little bit into that. You know.
I just spoke with Cambria, Yeah, on his way out, and
he said, he's still anxious wheneverhe passes through here, stemming back to
(26:26):
is uh competitions when we were playinglacrosse. Yeah, you know it's uh
he was still gets afraid to comehere. But that wasn't around that time,
was it. That was like,yeah, that was happening before.
Yeah, he just had a hada reputation. I guess that tough place
(26:48):
to play. Yeah. Yeah,see some of the fellows you talk about
playing with that you thought were greatplayers, and uh, maybe say a
little bit about these guys. Well, how about Johnny Davis. I remember
he was a remarkable player. Yeahhe was. He played for several teams
(27:10):
in the area. And uh,I think he played with us one time.
And player. He kind of stayedaround Montreal, didn't he. Yeah?
Yeah, and what I know becausewe interviewed him a few years ago.
Yeah, and he was mentioning hewas in Vermont in Montreal and that
kind of thing. And uh andthen Travis Cook, Travis I played with
(27:34):
and against him. Didn't he havelike one of the hardest shots. Yeah,
he was. He was a toughyeah, big guy. Yeah.
Piggy Norton a little bit. Whatwas he like? Like, Piggy was
a great player for GUNLOGI he was. He had moves, he had a
(27:56):
shot, he had it. Wasa smart, smart player. Yeah.
He it was always like maybe onestep ahead of the other the other that
right, he really could see thegame. Oh yeah, yeah, he's
heads up player, knows where.He Wasn't that big a guy, was
(28:17):
he? No, he wasn't hebroad, but he was uh solid like
a fire hydrant. Yeah, butfire yeah. Yeah. And then obviously
you know Louis still a time Ohyeah, Junior right through even the senior
(28:37):
senior bees uh up, even intothe old sticks. We played h and
you know obviously a name everybody knows, Gaylord Polis, Gaylord Paulis, Yes
or did you cover him? Didyou? I don't recall, not at
that time because I didn't know enoughat that time, but uh, I
(29:00):
think Lewis is the one that correctedme on it. We played them in
shadowgy at a brand new arena,Maple Arena, he said, and at
the time we had lost twenty nineto mis zero to them head to them.
Yeah, and he was the star. You just couldn't beat that guy,
(29:25):
the junior. He was the bestjunior a player and in the world.
Now, yeah, I've seen picturesof them and heard this story.
You would wear knee braces more asprotection than uh that actually getting them for
the you know, the prevention andprevention protection. Yea protection. Yeah,
(29:49):
but he wore those that because peoplewere checking them. And yeah, well
that's you gotta do. You gottado what you gotta do protect yourself.
Yeah. Yeah, there's a fewother fellows that I don't Yeah, you
didn't say them, but uh,Mikey bennetict Okay, he had a shot
(30:11):
that he was hard to cover.He run across when they gave him the
ball, He's running across, andthen he's taking the goalie with him,
and then he's cutting back. Heshot his back on the back on the
far post and you couldn't stop him. It's a speedy little yeah, And
(30:32):
he was speedy, a little guylike this, but he ran like a
ran like the wind. One guythat I admired for his uh tenacity,
I guess you would call it.That's uh Peter Burns. Peter Burns.
I think he's in the hall.He's ye had a little uh handicap.
(30:56):
Yeah, I heard about him.This is the way, this is the
way he played. Yeah, andhe was a hard man to stop.
Real. Yeah, my thumbs aretook a beating when I was playing against
him. He trying to trying tocheck him, check it. A lot
(31:22):
of times. My thumbs were howbig was this guy? Uh? It
wasn't all that big, but weweren't either. Like I was like maybe
one five. This guy had tobe over two hundred and twenty maybe or
something like. Oh he did Yeah, okay, I'm pretty sure he was
(31:45):
old and an older fellow. Yeah, he had a solid man's body.
Yes, I had a kid's body. Yes, yeah, I understand the
difference. Yeah, yeah, Andwell I admired him for what he was
able to do even though he hadjust so this little impediment. Or here's
(32:10):
a couple of other student to Laurieror a couple of others that I recall
that had some kind of uh uhan affliction or whatever you had to deal
with. Thomas Scott Thomas I thinkhis name. He couldn't hear really and
he used to play play with USsenior senior meal acrosse for rug was listening.
(32:34):
Wow, Yeah, he was deafand you can image like we do
rely on our hearing in that game, like people calling out for the ball
and you know, whistles from thereferee or not. Yeah, to see
the going off the boards like hearingthat. I admire what he was doing
with that little uh impediment that hehad. There was one guy I think
(33:00):
he played with um Joel Cambrio.Yeah, he had no hand. He
used to play one hand. Hewas I think he was missing from from
Dare down. Is that right?So this was and he used to play.
He was a don and good player. He made a senior BT there
(33:21):
was Dave White who had a handproblem because he got an accident when he
was a kid, I think,and he was he really overcame that situation,
you know. Yeah, it's amazinghow they can still play and the
passion that they had that they wantto play. Yeah, you mentioned Wally
Deer. We played softball, weplayed hockey, we played lacrosse together.
(33:46):
And what a what a talented fellowthat guy is Deer he used to run
like a deer. Yeah. Wow, Yeah, he's quite a player and
he he made it to the inthe Hall maybe twenty fourteen something like that.
Did you play some minor lacrosse?I know there wasn't much around right
(34:07):
when you're younger. It was pickup and pick up. Then it was
junior where you got to junior reallyyeah, midjet and junior not too not
that much. But in junior that'swhere we really got organized and we start
playing competitive. And how big aradius did you travel to play games for?
Oh? It was more local valleyfield that's maybe forty five minutes west
(34:34):
Montreal, uh east and east,and wow, wasn't that far? It
was forty five minute trips. It'syou now, Joe Corrupt so he got
to play in the Montreal Forum.Did you ever get to see any of
that or was that pass? No? I seem to remember being at the
(34:59):
game, but I can't remember ifif I was dressed. There was guys
at the time. Jacques plant Washwas a goaltender from Montreal. They tried
to bring him out for his nameto get to get across. Yeah,
get the crowd and get people intothe game. And then the same thing
(35:20):
with John Ferguson too. Ferguson,Yeah, they did the same thing with
him. He used him. Heused to play lacrosse anyways. Yeah,
so yeah, I know I didgo there and practice, but I'm not
sure if I played there. You'rea bit younger than Joe k who actually
played. Yeah. Yeah, butyou you But you got to see the
(35:44):
size of the crowds there. Weused to be big crowds. Oh yeah,
well they were sizeable for lacrosse.It's not it's not like your Montreal
Canadians hockey. That's twenty right,This was the four him too small.
Yeah, they have the old forum, yeah, and they moved there verdun
(36:04):
the arena. Yeah. Yeah,and you you probably got to play at
that. Yeah, I played atVerdun, I played in LaSalle, I
played in uh Luchin, We playedat two arenas in Chattigee, we played
uh uh. I think Lewis wassaying that we did play games in valley
(36:25):
Field. That was our opponents arena, but I guess for the time being
at that time that was going tobe our home ice or home home arena.
Yeah, we were all over.Yeah, Well, Walter, who
who are some of the coaches thatyou remember that you played under? That
(36:47):
you yeah, you feel like youlearned something from Well, first of all,
was there's a he'sn't the Hall ofFame or the Ontario Hall of Fame.
That's a roll of flour. Iplayed for him when I was just
a young junior and he was handlingthe senior team. My first assignment that
he gave me was too He justsaid, watch that guy. Don't let
(37:13):
him. I think I put itin my story. Don't let him get
away. If he goes to thebathroom, You'll be there to wipe his
butt. Don't don't let him go. So all I ever did was watch.
I guess he was the number oneplayer on the other team, so
all I did was run with him. Run, So I was getting a
(37:35):
lot of floor time. That's probablywhere I got a lot of my experience.
His name was Earl, Yeah,and that was my assignment. So
after watching these A class A playersall the time, number nine, number
fourteen, No, I started gettinga lot of experience. And uh,
(38:00):
that's that's because of him. Hesaid, you watched that guys. After
that, he said, don't worryabout the ball. The other guys will
take care of the ball. Youjust watched the guy and don't let him
get the ball. So that's whatI did. Who else besides ear Earl,
Well, he had Billy Billy toRivers. Billy coached us for a
(38:20):
while. He was he was agood coach, humorous for people that didn't
know Billy, he was famous.He was. He was a wrestler in
uh in England and he had Yeahhe was. He had a good reputation
over there. I guess that's whyhe stayed there. I think he wrestled
(38:40):
here locally, uh for a littlebit, but I think he was really
really welcomed out in England. Wowwow, Yeah he was. He was
a good coach. And Uh.The last coach that I had in the
seniors was Chief Norton. He wasthe grand Chief for several years nineteen seventy
(39:04):
eight to oh jeez, I thinkwe passed away two years ago last year
for Gnawagi. Yeah, he wasthe grand Chief for all that time.
Mike Mitchell and him were like this, they were yeah, and he was
our coach for a few years.We won a can a couple of league
championships. That he was. Hewas a good, good coach. Joe
(39:25):
Norton. Yeah, in this game, you know, it took you around.
You got to see some things,and you got to play with some
great people. You have a sonand grandson who you know. It must
be nice to see that line.Well, yep, I'd like to see
(39:46):
a bigger output of lacrosse, andit is coming, but it's going rather
slow building lacrosse through a higher level. In gonna log it. Yeah,
are you still involved in any way, shape or form with a like a
(40:06):
management or ad men? No?No, Uh, After I've did my
old sticks. Uh, I've sortof just dropped the whole thing. I
I go to games once in awhile and watched the young younger guys now
grandchildren and stuff like that, butuh, I've lost the passion I guess
(40:28):
my passion is golf. Did youever play Masters at all? Or that
or no? Just you got injured? Didn't you like that? Yeah?
Yeah, it's uh. I hadto meniscus junior. I lost four teeth.
No, no masks at the time. Okay, I think we just
maybe we just started wearing helmets.Oh cross cross check. Great, four
(40:54):
teeth right in front my thumbs.I told you a while ago. That's
so when you got your your finalinjury, that kind of got you to,
you know, hang it up.That's how was it? Yeah?
I did a little old sticks,but there wasn't that much. We didn't
have to run as fast, andit wasn't it wasn't quite the same.
(41:15):
So I was able to handle theable to handle the old sticks. But
after that, golf became my favorite, right I put my time in there.
Well, Walter, are gonna leaveyou with a chance to say whatever
last word you want about the gameor about your experience or I'd like to
(41:35):
see Quebec with a program similar orbetter than Ontarios. It's going to be
hard to match Ontario. They goteverything and the Hall of Fame. I'd
like to see see here with theHall of Fame and Quebec for lacrosse,
but lacrosse isn't big enough to havea Hall of fame, you know.
(41:59):
That's that type of thing. Though. If we could mirror Ontario's lacrosse programs,
man, I think we've been doinggreat, very good. Thank you
very much, Walter May, Thankyou, sir.
Well, I'm really pleased to behere today with Walter Goodleaf here at Gnawogie
and one of the great defensive playersand Gnawogi lacrosse history. And we're gonna
learn a little bit about his timewith the game and his life here at
Gonawogie, and we'll share that witheveryone. So Walter, we start out
(00:28):
with the easiest questions. What wasyour day of birth? I was born
in nineteen forty nine, January thetwenty fifth. The game kind of took
you a few places for lacrosse.Well, I never would have traveled if
it wasn't for the lacrosse, likethe BC, the British Bear British Columbia,
and the Edmonton. I think we'vedone Commonwealth games there. There's New
(00:55):
Brunswick. We had a little demonstrationgame in New Brunswick. So all these
little places that I would have nevergone there unless it was because of lacrosse.
It's taken me in a lot ofplaces. How did you get introduced?
They gave you Remember the person whomaybe gave you your first stick?
I sure do. That's what mademe passionate, passionate about lacrosse. My
(01:21):
grandmother, my late grandmother, usedto live in Brooklyn in New York,
and she used to come and visitevery once in a while. And she
had a brother who married in Augustina, so she used to go and visit,
(01:42):
go and visit him there. Andit's one trip that you made.
She came back with a lacrosse stickfrom the factory over there, and she
gave it to me, and Iwas so taken it back with that stick,
it was amazing. So I wouldnever never leave it out of my
(02:04):
hands. I did everything I couldwith that stick. I practice draws,
shooting on the house, in thenet at the local rink. I just
all the time, practice practice,practice shooting shooting. Learned how to put
in a bridge in the stick.When I started hooking, I learned how
(02:28):
to do that at a young age. Still, this was only about seven
or eight years old. So Ilearned a lot of stuff. And that's
what made me passionate about lacrosse.I loved the game from that point.
And anyone else in your family,like uncles or cousins, were they Was
(02:50):
anyone else playing the game? Yes, certainly was. I had an uncle.
He was about ten years my senior, so at the time he might
have been about eighteen nineteen years old. I was about eight or nine and
I used to go to practice withthem, the guys that were all his
age. Maybe you've heard some ofthe names. They are bigger, all
(03:14):
all Jacobs. That was my uncle'sfriend name Marvin Morris. He was a
good athlete. In fact, hehad won the Thorpe Longboat Award for top
Athlete. I don't know if thatwas I think it was in Canada in
(03:37):
the Indigenous community, so Thorpe LongboatTrophy. He played softball, hockey,
lacrosse, and I'm not sure ifthere was another sport that he did,
but that's he was good at allof them and he was worthy of the
Thorpe Longboat Trophy. Wow. Wow, you know, wasn't there a famous
(03:58):
Morris? Yes? And he heas well won the Thorpe blown Boat Trophy,
but it was for paddling. Hewas uh medalist at the Olympic Games
with Hugh Fisher. They he wona gold in a bronze. I believe
what was his first name again,Alwyn? Alwyn? Yes, yeah,
(04:21):
two medals and uh he also wona Thorpe Longboat Trophy. Really yeah.
Did you get to speak with himmuch when you were growing up or anything.
Yeah. Yeah, we worked togetherher a lot. Oh uh,
like the paddling part, the lacrossewe did. I did the sports briefly
(04:44):
in the minors. Yeah, buthis passion was more paddling. Was he
about your age or was he he'sa little younger, well younger, yeah,
yeah, my cousin. Uh yeah, he's a little bit longer,
younger than I am. When hedid win the gold medals, we prepared
(05:04):
a parade for him here in town. But I sort of coordinated things,
and I was a recreation person atthe time, the recreation director, so
that fell under my portfolio. Iguess we did that. There was another
area where we worked on the naigis North American Indigenous Games for young athletes
(05:41):
from all over States and Canada,and he was instrumental in putting it together.
He used to go to the meetingsall over the place, British column
in the States, but I wason the home front. They gave me
a gold bronze and a silver medalfor what I was doing with Elwyn to
(06:05):
organize the organize the games. Hewasn't for any particular sport, just the
recognition that thank you for what you'vedone in organizing the Indigenous Games. So
one thing I saw and reading aboutyour your history was your involvement as a
(06:26):
sub chief on council and the buildingof the arena that became a place for
lacrosse at other sports. You werevery involved in that process, were you.
Yeah, I was. In fact, it started when I was just
a young follow up. We usedto have to go to Lachine across the
(06:49):
river. Here, we take abus and then he led us off at
sixth Avenue and the arena and Lachinewas on nineteenth Avenue. Get off the
bus and we used to walk allthose blocks to get to the the arena.
And we played in the church leagueat the time, so we didn't
(07:09):
have to travel arena or town totown or anything. It was always in
that one location. But over time, when we became more organized, we
had to travel to other communities toget our ice, and we didn't really
(07:30):
have a home as such. SoI think at that point or way back
then, I felt the need foran arena in our community. You didn't
have any indoor box either, didget No no indoor box. No,
we had outdoor box, but thenthat was dependent on whether again yes,
(07:51):
so it was organization of parents whowere interested in the same thing that it
was, let's build our own facilityhere, let's let's do something. And
so we started on a small scale, little fundraising stuff, pretty successful stuff,
(08:13):
and but it would have taken usforever to reach the goal of building
that that facility. If costs backthen, I'm not sure if it was
in the area of two million dollars. That was pretty big in the nineteen
nineties. Yeah, yeah, itcould have been a lot more. But
(08:35):
uh, in the research that wewere doing as a committee, we looked
at facility that would take care ofour ice needs but also for lacrosse.
So if we would have did thebuilding that we looked at, it would
have been not high enough for lacrosse. So we had to have a higher
(08:56):
roof or higher ceilings to accommodate thelacrosse games that they are going to be
playing. Okay, so this wasalmost like Lachine. They had an arena
where when you walk in the entrance, the ice level was down I had
(09:16):
to dig out, dig get out, put your ice down below. So
you had a higher ceiling and wellbeing on council at the time, it
was kind of convenient to have theconnections that I did with with the council.
(09:39):
Chief Norton was my my buddy,and the rest of the council.
It didn't take too much to convincethem that we did need this facility.
What was the first sport played inthe arena? I'm not sure. I
believe it might have been hockey.Yeah, yeah, I can't remember that.
The exactly is that time of yearwhen it opened? I believe so,
(10:03):
yeah, but I'm not certain.Okay, So how did you get
the nickname Butch? That was myfamily give me that name rate right from
when I was a little a littleuh rug rat. Yeah, that's yeah,
yeah, and that's uh. Peoplestill call me that, the ones
(10:26):
that really knew me, Like Imentioned my my friend Roddy, Yeah,
we grew up together. He stillcalls me Butch and uh Skippy Skippy Norton.
I played sports with him all theway up. He still calls me
Butch. So my friends, teammatesand family still call me. Which.
(10:48):
So you've had a love of thegame for a long time and you couple
with Joe Carrot and he was aleft shot, you were a right shot.
You both were very defense oriented.That's right. He did say you
you scored a fair amount as well. You know that paid off because there's
all the practice that I did,It did payoffs. I had a good
(11:09):
shot. My mother wasn't too crazyabout my practicing, uh, shooting the
ball against the house, and justkept all day long. I just kept.
I actually broke some of the shinglesof the siding on the house,
(11:30):
but I got a good shot.Every true lacrosse family has a story of
a broken window or broken we hadthat too, or the garage with holes
in it. Yeah that's right,Yeah, yeah, that kind of thing.
Yeah. But you and Joe madea great pair. And and really
he had learned from big Al theBuffalo. Yeah. Yeah, one one
(11:56):
place we went there we gave eachother name, and that was that was
his name, big Al Buffalo.Yeah. And who did you learn from?
I learned from my uncle. Well, all his friends that he used
to play with took me on andthey didn't chase me away, you know
when they were practicing. I wasthere with them and you wanted yeah,
(12:22):
and and they didn't chase me away. They took me under the yeah.
Yeah. And guys like big Al, yeah him, he gives h a
pass like a shot. Yeah,he doesn't, he's up put your stick
there. He put it in andhe whips it. At the end of
you practice, my pocket is likethis trying to catch his his Oh yeah,
(12:48):
and well yeah, well that's hewas. He was a good guy
that that sort of took me underthe wing too. And uh, there's
a few others that they're in theireighties, but they're not in the Hall
of Fame or anything, but thatthat's the guys I played with. Yeah,
(13:09):
and you were a captain, youwere an MVP, you were you
you had a lot of hours asa player. Yeah. I wasn't doing
it on purpose as a result ofit. That was it. That's that's
the way I like to play.And uh uh, that's that's how I
learned how to play this game.Whenever I went out there, that's what
(13:31):
I did. I played the gameas hard as I could talk about.
You went through a President's Cup inManitoba Winnipeg. Yeah, yeah, we
didn't fare that well. We've alwayshad good teams and we usually tried to
stay within the community, uh,with our players, taking local, local
(13:58):
guys and yes, at so we'regonna win or lose with what we got.
But I know over time that um, some of the other teams like
we're able to solicit some of ourplayers from the Senior A level and uh
yeah, okay, come with usand we'll play a Senior B championship.
(14:22):
Okay, Well we didn't do that. We we played Senior B and we
stayed most of the time. Westayed with our guys, with our own
local guys that win or lose,we were together. In nineteen seventy eight,
you went to the Commonwealth Games inEdmonton. Yeah, and we played
We'll tell us about that. Wedid a little uh wow, it wasn't
(14:45):
very much. It was more ofa demonstration showing them how the sport is
played. That was basically it.Uh we just made two teams amongst ourselves
and there was enough guys there toput on a good dimension. Six Nations
guys as well. I'm not sureif that's the one. I think we
(15:07):
were we were alone on that one. It's a six Nations versus Okay,
yeah, yeah, yeah, that'sright. So they were part of that
trip. Yeah. And then there'ssomething here about nineteen sixty nine East West
that was I think the BC tripthat we we represented the East and who
(15:33):
was it I forget, I forgetthe actual name of the team out out
west, but that we played aseries like Nanaimo or Squamish or something.
Yeah, yeah, I think wewere in Squamish, so it may have
been them. Okay. Yeah.A lot of people don't know about the
(15:54):
commitment that a lot of iron workersmade maintaining their content with the game and
what it took to do that.Because you guys worked all over the Northeast
States, as you mentioned earlier,you know, but you had games on
the weekend back here in the Gonawagearea, and so talk about what that
was like. Well, well,we used to. We used to travel
(16:18):
to and from work on the weekends. Friday night, you leave New York.
Well, just for example New York, you leave New York, you
get home around eleven twelve o'clock atnight on Friday night. You're home for
the weekend, maybe Saturday. Yougot a lacrosse practice game on Sunday night,
and it's an away game. Okay, today we're going to Sherbrook.
(16:40):
It's an hour, maybe a littlebetter than an hour to drive. The
game starts at eight finishes at aroundten ten thirty. Jump back in the
car again, head for home,pick up your suitcase, jump in another
car, and then head out backto work. Like I said, maybe
(17:00):
in this case New York. Sowe're leaving. We're leaving here at around
midnight. We call it a midnightrun. And depending on how many if
we had four guys in the car, two guys in the car, depends
on which job you're going to.So anyways, we change drivers. One
(17:22):
guy drive maybe to up to Albany. Then the other guy takes it in
from Alberty right into Brooklyn. Youarrive in Brooklyn, and then seven o'clock
in the morning, all the guysare there. They all used to gather
up at a restaurant. There's aand then from there you decentralized to go
to your jobs. Different jobs,catch the subway. This guy takes his
(17:45):
car, he goes to the job. So here we get there at seven
o'clock in the morning, head outto the job, get there in time
to go to work. So thatwas quite a long, long evening and
a long night, and it's goingto be a long day on Monday.
How many years did you do that? H exactly? Roughly? I have
(18:11):
to say maybe about five years.Yes, yeah, well not continuous.
This was off and on, butthat time period five years off and on,
and it's it's summertime, so youknow, lacrosse is summer, so
I didn't have to do that inthe winter. So you you might do
(18:33):
that twelve weeks in a row orsomething like that. No, not necessarily.
It's not always a Sunday Sunday awaygame, okay, And so yeah,
a loot of times that you remember. Yeah, well these places that
are coast by New Jersey, Connecticut, Massachusetts there you're able to travel that
(18:55):
in six hours eight hours. Yeah. Sometimes we did not come back for
maybe three weeks, four weeks ata time. I worked in Detroit for
good, good time period maybe twothree months, and uh we didn't come
back. Maybe every four weeks wecame back, Okay, it was like
(19:17):
maybe ten hour trip. So we'renot going to do that Friday night.
Ten hours on Friday night and thenhours. Yeah. So yeah, we
just stayed there and practice lacrosse.Well, in fact, that's uh,
we ran into Lawrence Martin heard ofLauren. Yeah, he was a good
(19:40):
player for August Snake, big tallfellow. Yeah, we met no bar
In in in Detroit and we haduh our lacrosse sticks with us and inside
the bar. Just wrong. ButRoddy Roddy likes told his stories that what
this Lawrence Martin, he smashed thejukebox. Oh boy, well, usually
(20:11):
people do that when they've heard thesame song play too many times. This
was an accident. Oh yeah,he was quite a player, Lawrence Martin.
I remember him. So when youwere at a job, for instance,
like in New York, you know, iron working job, like how
many guys might have played lacrosse thatweekend somewhere a few or just a few
(20:36):
few, But I guess you wouldhave to be more, you'd have more
da dedication. I'd say, nowI'm gonna play. That's all I really
got started playing with the seniors.The guys had to go away to work,
so they brought me up from ajunior. I guess Eddie Dollarone,
the goaltender, Joe Joker ut thesame thing. They brought us up there.
(21:00):
The guys had to go away towork. It so we got our
initiation into the seniors. Yeah.I talked with guys from Onondaga and they
had to make similar runs. Youknow a little bit. You know,
you're down in Syracuse area a littlebit less, uh, not as far,
but yeah, but the same kindof commitment. Yeah, I've heard
(21:21):
that story, you know, storythrough them as well. Yeah, that's
an amazing story because that's dedicated.Like you do. Hear of guys who
play summer League, uh you knowin the States and they have to make
those trips on the weekend and getback in time. But they're not doing
ironwork, you know. They gottathey gotta sit in front of their desk
and not fall asleep. Yeah.Yeah, but you were a fortunate because
(21:48):
your your son played and then youhave a grand child who plays, right,
Yeah, you've seen a real Ijust no, I think it was
my wife found it for me.But I was looking for some stuff memory
Gilia, and she came up witha little, uh souvenir memento of a
(22:10):
game. It says it's on there. Donawala gave Versus the Green Gales and
the year was two thousand. SoI know that wasn't mine because I played
the Green Gales back in the sixtyI think so at the end of the
late sixties or early seventies, SoI knew that wasn't my medal. But
(22:33):
it was my son who played againstthe Green Gales in Junior B and in
the year two thousand. He musthave been about seventeen or eighteen at the
time, So that's that's just howmy son. I've been up at Kandasataki
and I've seen the outdoor box thatthey played, right, And I played
(22:53):
a role in the crisis as theycalled it. Yeah, what, Yeah,
you had some attachment to the crisisin some way or yes, I
did. In fact, it wasuh a few issues that came up at
the time that uh stressed me outquite a bit. And what year was
(23:18):
that? Roughly? That was innineteen ninety they called that the Oka crisis,
Yes, yes, and I thinkit was just when the Oka thing
started. It was in July andI or August, and we had just
had our elections. So I hadjust gotten in council for my fifth term,
(23:41):
okay or was it the sixth six? Yeah, my last term and
I did not run it in inninety two because of the stress that I
was very much vault. It wasI had. I was involved in some
food runs where we were trying tobring trucks of food in there and we
(24:04):
had army with the machine guns andwhatever on APCs there like like a tank.
Yeah, they were on there andyou had to drive food up.
We're trying to bring food into thecommunity. People. To really understand how
that was, I had a stickmaker up there, Travis Gabriel show me
(24:27):
the air and he showed me sometrees with some bullet holes. Well,
right outside here the tracks you seethe tracks right here at the light right
there is where the army were setup. I'm not sure if it was
all army. I think even hereright here. Yeah, and my brother
passed away at that time. Ohand he was at the mortuary I guess
(24:52):
undertaker and they were bringing him backto gun Ruggins so he could be laid
out. Yeah. Uh, thesepeople wouldn't let them pass. So even
even though you were down here andgot a waggie, that that the army,
you was here even as well?Okay I did. So let me
(25:14):
get to something. Okay. Lacrossehas always been a game that's brought people
together from outside the community with didthat have some sort of role afterward?
They wouldn't come to Gnawaggie. Theyrefused to let us let us play in
the league. Uh. They wouldn'tThey would not come to an arena that
first year. Yeah, that's howdifficult it was. I had to babe,
(25:38):
plead, come on, let's youknow, it's over with. The
kids didn't have anything to do withwhat was going on, right, let's
let them play, leave them alone. No. So it was a good
one one season, maybe even alittle more before got a little better.
It wasn't fully, it wasn't fullya lot of back to normal, but
(26:03):
we were getting there. So thelacrosse here was that played against non native
communities. Yeah, he carried overa little bit into that. You know.
I just spoke with Cambria, Yeah, on his way out, and
he said, he's still anxious wheneverhe passes through here, stemming back to
(26:26):
is uh competitions when we were playinglacrosse. Yeah, you know it's uh
he was still gets afraid to comehere. But that wasn't around that time,
was it. That was like,yeah, that was happening before.
Yeah, he just had a hada reputation. I guess that tough place
(26:48):
to play. Yeah. Yeah,see some of the fellows you talk about
playing with that you thought were greatplayers, and uh, maybe say a
little bit about these guys. Well, how about Johnny Davis. I remember
he was a remarkable player. Yeahhe was. He played for several teams
(27:10):
in the area. And uh,I think he played with us one time.
And player. He kind of stayedaround Montreal, didn't he. Yeah?
Yeah, and what I know becausewe interviewed him a few years ago.
Yeah, and he was mentioning hewas in Vermont in Montreal and that
kind of thing. And uh andthen Travis Cook, Travis I played with
(27:34):
and against him. Didn't he havelike one of the hardest shots. Yeah,
he was. He was a toughyeah, big guy. Yeah.
Piggy Norton a little bit. Whatwas he like? Like, Piggy was
a great player for GUNLOGI he was. He had moves, he had a
(27:56):
shot, he had it. Wasa smart, smart player. Yeah.
He it was always like maybe onestep ahead of the other the other that
right, he really could see thegame. Oh yeah, yeah, he's
heads up player, knows where.He Wasn't that big a guy, was
(28:17):
he? No, he wasn't hebroad, but he was uh solid like
a fire hydrant. Yeah, butfire yeah. Yeah. And then obviously
you know Louis still a time Ohyeah, Junior right through even the senior
(28:37):
senior bees uh up, even intothe old sticks. We played h and
you know obviously a name everybody knows, Gaylord Polis, Gaylord Paulis, Yes
or did you cover him? Didyou? I don't recall, not at
that time because I didn't know enoughat that time, but uh, I
(29:00):
think Lewis is the one that correctedme on it. We played them in
shadowgy at a brand new arena,Maple Arena, he said, and at
the time we had lost twenty nineto mis zero to them head to them.
Yeah, and he was the star. You just couldn't beat that guy,
(29:25):
the junior. He was the bestjunior a player and in the world.
Now, yeah, I've seen picturesof them and heard this story.
You would wear knee braces more asprotection than uh that actually getting them for
the you know, the prevention andprevention protection. Yea protection. Yeah,
(29:49):
but he wore those that because peoplewere checking them. And yeah, well
that's you gotta do. You gottado what you gotta do protect yourself.
Yeah. Yeah, there's a fewother fellows that I don't Yeah, you
didn't say them, but uh,Mikey bennetict Okay, he had a shot
(30:11):
that he was hard to cover.He run across when they gave him the
ball, He's running across, andthen he's taking the goalie with him,
and then he's cutting back. Heshot his back on the back on the
far post and you couldn't stop him. It's a speedy little yeah, And
(30:32):
he was speedy, a little guylike this, but he ran like a
ran like the wind. One guythat I admired for his uh tenacity,
I guess you would call it.That's uh Peter Burns. Peter Burns.
I think he's in the hall.He's ye had a little uh handicap.
(30:56):
Yeah, I heard about him.This is the way, this is the
way he played. Yeah, andhe was a hard man to stop.
Real. Yeah, my thumbs aretook a beating when I was playing against
him. He trying to trying tocheck him, check it. A lot
(31:22):
of times. My thumbs were howbig was this guy? Uh? It
wasn't all that big, but weweren't either. Like I was like maybe
one five. This guy had tobe over two hundred and twenty maybe or
something like. Oh he did Yeah, okay, I'm pretty sure he was
(31:45):
old and an older fellow. Yeah, he had a solid man's body.
Yes, I had a kid's body. Yes, yeah, I understand the
difference. Yeah, yeah, Andwell I admired him for what he was
able to do even though he hadjust so this little impediment. Or here's
(32:10):
a couple of other student to Laurieror a couple of others that I recall
that had some kind of uh uhan affliction or whatever you had to deal
with. Thomas Scott Thomas I thinkhis name. He couldn't hear really and
he used to play play with USsenior senior meal acrosse for rug was listening.
(32:34):
Wow, Yeah, he was deafand you can image like we do
rely on our hearing in that game, like people calling out for the ball
and you know, whistles from thereferee or not. Yeah, to see
the going off the boards like hearingthat. I admire what he was doing
with that little uh impediment that hehad. There was one guy I think
(33:00):
he played with um Joel Cambrio.Yeah, he had no hand. He
used to play one hand. Hewas I think he was missing from from
Dare down. Is that right?So this was and he used to play.
He was a don and good player. He made a senior BT there
(33:21):
was Dave White who had a handproblem because he got an accident when he
was a kid, I think,and he was he really overcame that situation,
you know. Yeah, it's amazinghow they can still play and the
passion that they had that they wantto play. Yeah, you mentioned Wally
Deer. We played softball, weplayed hockey, we played lacrosse together.
(33:46):
And what a what a talented fellowthat guy is Deer he used to run
like a deer. Yeah. Wow, Yeah, he's quite a player and
he he made it to the inthe Hall maybe twenty fourteen something like that.
Did you play some minor lacrosse?I know there wasn't much around right
(34:07):
when you're younger. It was pickup and pick up. Then it was
junior where you got to junior reallyyeah, midjet and junior not too not
that much. But in junior that'swhere we really got organized and we start
playing competitive. And how big aradius did you travel to play games for?
Oh? It was more local valleyfield that's maybe forty five minutes west
(34:34):
Montreal, uh east and east,and wow, wasn't that far? It
was forty five minute trips. It'syou now, Joe Corrupt so he got
to play in the Montreal Forum.Did you ever get to see any of
that or was that pass? No? I seem to remember being at the
(34:59):
game, but I can't remember ifif I was dressed. There was guys
at the time. Jacques plant Washwas a goaltender from Montreal. They tried
to bring him out for his nameto get to get across. Yeah,
get the crowd and get people intothe game. And then the same thing
(35:20):
with John Ferguson too. Ferguson,Yeah, they did the same thing with
him. He used him. Heused to play lacrosse anyways. Yeah,
so yeah, I know I didgo there and practice, but I'm not
sure if I played there. You'rea bit younger than Joe k who actually
played. Yeah. Yeah, butyou you But you got to see the
(35:44):
size of the crowds there. Weused to be big crowds. Oh yeah,
well they were sizeable for lacrosse.It's not it's not like your Montreal
Canadians hockey. That's twenty right,This was the four him too small.
Yeah, they have the old forum, yeah, and they moved there verdun
(36:04):
the arena. Yeah. Yeah,and you you probably got to play at
that. Yeah, I played atVerdun, I played in LaSalle, I
played in uh Luchin, We playedat two arenas in Chattigee, we played
uh uh. I think Lewis wassaying that we did play games in valley
(36:25):
Field. That was our opponents arena, but I guess for the time being
at that time that was going tobe our home ice or home home arena.
Yeah, we were all over.Yeah, Well, Walter, who
who are some of the coaches thatyou remember that you played under? That
(36:47):
you yeah, you feel like youlearned something from Well, first of all,
was there's a he'sn't the Hall ofFame or the Ontario Hall of Fame.
That's a roll of flour. Iplayed for him when I was just
a young junior and he was handlingthe senior team. My first assignment that
he gave me was too He justsaid, watch that guy. Don't let
(37:13):
him. I think I put itin my story. Don't let him get
away. If he goes to thebathroom, You'll be there to wipe his
butt. Don't don't let him go. So all I ever did was watch.
I guess he was the number oneplayer on the other team, so
all I did was run with him. Run, So I was getting a
(37:35):
lot of floor time. That's probablywhere I got a lot of my experience.
His name was Earl, Yeah,and that was my assignment. So
after watching these A class A playersall the time, number nine, number
fourteen, No, I started gettinga lot of experience. And uh,
(38:00):
that's that's because of him. Hesaid, you watched that guys. After
that, he said, don't worryabout the ball. The other guys will
take care of the ball. Youjust watched the guy and don't let him
get the ball. So that's whatI did. Who else besides ear Earl,
Well, he had Billy Billy toRivers. Billy coached us for a
(38:20):
while. He was he was agood coach, humorous for people that didn't
know Billy, he was famous.He was. He was a wrestler in
uh in England and he had Yeahhe was. He had a good reputation
over there. I guess that's whyhe stayed there. I think he wrestled
(38:40):
here locally, uh for a littlebit, but I think he was really
really welcomed out in England. Wowwow, Yeah he was. He was
a good coach. And Uh.The last coach that I had in the
seniors was Chief Norton. He wasthe grand Chief for several years nineteen seventy
(39:04):
eight to oh jeez, I thinkwe passed away two years ago last year
for Gnawagi. Yeah, he wasthe grand Chief for all that time.
Mike Mitchell and him were like this, they were yeah, and he was
our coach for a few years.We won a can a couple of league
championships. That he was. Hewas a good, good coach. Joe
(39:25):
Norton. Yeah, in this game, you know, it took you around.
You got to see some things,and you got to play with some
great people. You have a sonand grandson who you know. It must
be nice to see that line.Well, yep, I'd like to see
(39:46):
a bigger output of lacrosse, andit is coming, but it's going rather
slow building lacrosse through a higher level. In gonna log it. Yeah,
are you still involved in any way, shape or form with a like a
(40:06):
management or ad men? No?No, Uh, After I've did my
old sticks. Uh, I've sortof just dropped the whole thing. I
I go to games once in awhile and watched the young younger guys now
grandchildren and stuff like that, butuh, I've lost the passion I guess
(40:28):
my passion is golf. Did youever play Masters at all? Or that
or no? Just you got injured? Didn't you like that? Yeah?
Yeah, it's uh. I hadto meniscus junior. I lost four teeth.
No, no masks at the time. Okay, I think we just
maybe we just started wearing helmets.Oh cross cross check. Great, four
(40:54):
teeth right in front my thumbs.I told you a while ago. That's
so when you got your your finalinjury, that kind of got you to,
you know, hang it up.That's how was it? Yeah?
I did a little old sticks,but there wasn't that much. We didn't
have to run as fast, andit wasn't it wasn't quite the same.
(41:15):
So I was able to handle theable to handle the old sticks. But
after that, golf became my favorite, right I put my time in there.
Well, Walter, are gonna leaveyou with a chance to say whatever
last word you want about the gameor about your experience or I'd like to
(41:35):
see Quebec with a program similar orbetter than Ontarios. It's going to be
hard to match Ontario. They goteverything and the Hall of Fame. I'd
like to see see here with theHall of Fame and Quebec for lacrosse,
but lacrosse isn't big enough to havea Hall of fame, you know.
(41:59):
That's that type of thing. Though. If we could mirror Ontario's lacrosse programs,
man, I think we've been doinggreat, very good. Thank you
very much, Walter May, Thankyou, sir.
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