Remembering Victor French and Victor Allen French, "The Return of Mr.Edwards" recap

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
If you're listening right now to the Little House fiftieth
Anniversary Podcast, we know something about you. We know that
you're obsessed with Little House of the Prairie.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
For more than half a century, Little House on the Prairie,
the series, and the books have been bright lights for
people all over the world who seek out goodness, decency,
and human connection.

Speaker 3 (00:22):
Here on the Little House fiftieth Anniversary Podcast, we celebrate
everything that made Little House so special.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
The stories, the characters, the actors, and the messages that
have made Little House iconic family television.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
And a perfect counterpoint to a world that feels like
it's going off the rails every day.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
Where's Michael Landon when we need him most?

Speaker 4 (00:43):
I'm your host, Pamela Bob And I'm your Prairie bitch
Alice at Aringrem and I'm Dean Butler, our hashtag imaginary boyfriend.
Join us for our loving, quirky, and often irreverent conversations
about the finest family drama in the history of television.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
And the imperfect people who made it that way.

Speaker 3 (01:04):
In this third season, we are extremely grateful for the
support of visit Seemi Valley dot com for their continuing
sponsorship of Little House on the Prairie and the Little
House fiftieth anniversary podcast heads Wow caught us mid conversation.
I'm not going to tell you what that was about.
I'm Pamela Bob, your host and as the creator and

(01:27):
star of Living on a Prairie, and you're Superman, and
I'm here with our wonderful prairie bitch, Allison, our great
who's an NYC? Who I don't think I'm seeing?

Speaker 5 (01:38):
Well?

Speaker 1 (01:39):
I click, that was it. I believe we missed each
other for seeing each other because you didn't get you.
I know it did.

Speaker 3 (01:45):
Yep, yep, ridict ridiculous. And also we are here with
my hashtag imaginary boyfriend Dean.

Speaker 6 (01:52):
But I'm all at least time, i'm your imaginary boyfriend.

Speaker 5 (01:55):
Yeah, that's that is I love that. That's very sweet.
I know I'm not Allison's imaginary boyfriend. We've established that,
so you need you.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
Need to be brought down every now and then, too, can't.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
Get seriously think about it? Would you want to be
my imaginary boy.

Speaker 6 (02:16):
I am.

Speaker 5 (02:18):
I'm just so delighted to be your friend, you know,
I mean, that's like I think, Yeah, I mean, I
really feel like the distant that, you know, not that
we've ever could not have been friends, but all the
things that we've done together in the last five or
six years, I feel like we've become good friends.

Speaker 6 (02:40):
You know.

Speaker 5 (02:40):
I totally appreciate you and what you bring, and that's
been a you know, that's been a really great thing.

Speaker 6 (02:46):
So, Okay, I'm not your imaginary boyfriend, but I'm your friend.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yes, not imaginary friend.

Speaker 3 (02:54):
Not to mention it always freaked me out in the
Cinnamon Chicken episode because I think you guys look like
brother and sister.

Speaker 6 (03:01):
Is wrong.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
This is wrong.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
They're on a date.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
No, we did no business being together. That's bad one.

Speaker 3 (03:13):
Anyway, How is your show?

Speaker 1 (03:16):
New York is amazing? I'm going to catch a Broadway
show tonight and all that. So yeah, So I did
my show four shows back to back. Am I tired?

Speaker 6 (03:23):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (03:23):
I am. I went to the Beautiful too. The Workshire
is the Foundry, which is great. We've never been to
the Foundry Theater into Berkshires. Go go go see the show,
Go be in the show. It's a great place. So
I did a Friday night and a Saturday night and
a Saturday night and I ass held out amazing. It's
a clothing store and I bought a jacket, a big pink,
fuzzy care bear jacket. I had so much fun and

(03:46):
then got up and took the train to New York,
got to my room, took a nap, turn around, went
to the theater, did a four ship, and then went
out to dinner at Nellie's restaurant.

Speaker 5 (03:55):
I minette, which I do like, Oh that's great's that's
right in the theater district.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
That's the chicken and everything is lovely, and then passed
out and slept like for twelve hours and then got
up started running around. Today I had I had an
interview at Serious Radio. I had an French I had
a whole French zoom call thing I did. And then
after this, I'm running up the street to go catch
a show.

Speaker 3 (04:19):
What are you saying?

Speaker 6 (04:20):
Awesome? What are you saying?

Speaker 1 (04:21):
I'm going to see Dog day afternoon?

Speaker 3 (04:24):
Okay, report back. I haven't seen that one.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
I mean there's a lot of movie thinking this is
a play, this is a play, right, and now it is?

Speaker 3 (04:32):
Yeah, yep, okay, interesting, okay, cool?

Speaker 5 (04:38):
Yeah, so you're so all right, So you're in New
York City now, I just want to make a quick
note that you know we are looking forward. We don't
normally promo who we're having on the show, but I
think this is sort of fun.

Speaker 6 (04:49):
We are.

Speaker 5 (04:50):
We are having someone we've been looking forward to visiting
with for a long time. Laura Hardin, who of course
appeared early in her career on Little House and has
done The Office and is done and a.

Speaker 6 (05:01):
Million different things.

Speaker 3 (05:02):
Her her IMDb is insane. She has never stopped working.
But then until the Office, I mean I loved her
on Transparent she was so and so completely not like
who she is I'm Transparent, but then the Office hit
and now people know her by name, But if you
look at her frickin' resume, she has never stopped working

(05:23):
since she was a child.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
She was on Everything Start a U Girl and has
cranked it out ever since. And it's a really nice person.

Speaker 3 (05:31):
Yeah I did.

Speaker 5 (05:31):
I did a musical with her years ago, called A
Lovely Way to Spend an Evening. It was just it
was a little review thing and she stepped into it
and was just lovely.

Speaker 6 (05:41):
So yeah, she's terrific. Nice.

Speaker 3 (05:44):
That'll be coming beginning. That will drop probably in.

Speaker 6 (05:48):
Early June, either very the very end of May or
early June, so you keep an eye on that.

Speaker 3 (05:55):
Yep, and I'm back. I'm home, but feel very fulfilled,
which is very nice. And then oh, this is the
new news that you guys don't even know about.

Speaker 6 (06:07):
Oh you have another show?

Speaker 3 (06:09):
Yeah, I have asked. So Sting has his show The
Last Ship, that was on Broadway about ten years ago.
He's for ten years has been sort of revamping it
and reworking it, and he's been touring it all over
the world. So he's doing at the Metropolitan Opera House
the second week of June, and I shall be in it.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
You're a Sting show? Oh my god, God, Camelane, what
you Apparently it's a full stage, so there's the cat.

Speaker 3 (06:40):
They've been doing it all around the world. But apparently
there's like a sixteen person chorus that sort of backs
up the whole thing. So a friend of mine is
the music director for it, and he called me and
he said, will you do this? And I said, okay,
you know what.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
The funniest thing.

Speaker 3 (06:56):
The funniest thing is is that everyone's like, oh my god,
you're gonna be singing at the Met. You're gonna sing
at the Met. And my answer is, actually, this will
be the seventh or eighth show I've done at the
Met because when I was a child, I was in
the children's chorus at the Metropolan Opera in the City Opera.
So I've done I mean, my first opera there was

(07:16):
Franco Zephyrelli's Fall Staff. I mean, I've done seven operas
at the Metropolitan Opera House. So what's nice about this
is this is my old stomping grounds, Like this is
where we hung out every day all day for two
years when I was a child. So I have a
lot of memories at the Met and Lincoln Center and
just that whole area of Manhattan, and it'd be so

(07:38):
fun to be back there.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
It'll be so I just love howsha well I've done seven.

Speaker 3 (07:45):
I know it's really crazy.

Speaker 6 (07:50):
Around the corner somewhere, but.

Speaker 3 (07:53):
Word for word for data from Tasca and and La
Boem and all those shows, God, yeah, now it was fun.
And you know who I you know who? I did
the opera with Sarah. I grew up with Sarah Jessica
Parker's siblings, and so it was her two youngest siblings,
Alegra and Aaron What's Up? And Aaron, who I grew

(08:14):
up with and they were you know, show biz kids,
and they went come along with us, and so that's
how I got in it. So we did it all together.

Speaker 6 (08:22):
That's awesome, I know.

Speaker 3 (08:24):
Fun anyway, that's my latest.

Speaker 6 (08:26):
That that's great.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
That's crazy.

Speaker 6 (08:30):
Yeah. So what are the dates and what are the dates?

Speaker 3 (08:33):
I believe the all the I think the performances are
the second week of June. And I know, like right now, yeah, yeah,
in a minute, I start rehearsing in a couple of weeks, yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
Like now, like yeah, yeah, Well, so Dean, what do
we We're going to Tulsa, Oklahoma in June?

Speaker 6 (08:49):
Are I think we are? I think we are, but
I don't, but I don't. We'll tell you more about that.

Speaker 7 (08:57):
You're going to broke.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
I'm going to borrow on the twenty cheven yet will
be because I'm getting my lower ingles Bingo card officially full.
I have been to Walnut Grove. I have been to Independence, Kansas.
I have been to just Smet like a couple of times.
I've been a couple of times and immense ones. I've
been to Mansfield where you know she wound up WHI
she wrote the books like a billion times. Been to

(09:18):
one to grow. I've been to almost everything, and I've
even been to Rosa's house in San Francisco.

Speaker 7 (09:23):
Okay, so I've I haven't done that nice.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
I didn't get to go in, but I've got to
go see it's amazing.

Speaker 7 (09:30):
But now I'm finally going to Buroke.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
So I'm like.

Speaker 5 (09:35):
Industry, the universe of tiny sites. This is the Barokee
is the tiniest of sight.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
They said, there's a parade, they said it won't be
very long.

Speaker 7 (09:53):
When Border interviewed me, it's very nice.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
And she was in like the actual city that is nearby,
and said, oh, yeah, staying here, I might be staying
in Boroke. She goes, no, you're not staying in Buroke, right, yeah.

Speaker 6 (10:05):
What's the what's Decora? You're probably staying in.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
She said, staying Decora. I went, oh am I.

Speaker 7 (10:11):
She goes, well, you kind of which is a.

Speaker 6 (10:12):
Very pretty little community, very pretty little community.

Speaker 5 (10:16):
So for you, this is going to be fun because
being a hotel owner yourself, you're the major feature of
Baroque is the Master's Hotel, and so you'll be able
to compare notes on your hotel and the Master's Hotel.

Speaker 6 (10:30):
I think your Hotel was far more elegant than the
Master's Hotel.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
Well, then I've also read, because I read Pioneer Girl
and all that stuff, and I've read about that her
experience at the Master's Hotel.

Speaker 7 (10:41):
Was apparently not fun.

Speaker 1 (10:43):
No, No, things were harsh, harshest.

Speaker 6 (10:46):
In tough, tough little community.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
It's like the dark chapter of the Prairie. So I'm
very much looking forward to it.

Speaker 6 (10:52):
That's cool, it's all. It's you. It's the word, right, Well,
let's boy, speaking of dark side, there's a natural transition.
We've got somebody talking about today. Oh lord, yes.

Speaker 3 (11:08):
Yes, yes, yes, But first from UBM go and Prairie
Partners and visit Zemi Valley dot com and you are
patrons without whom this podcast would not be possible. This
is a Little House on the Prairie fiftieth Anniversary podcast. Okay,

(11:39):
this episode was a Shaka Rooney. I haven't seen it
in a very long time. And uh, trigger warning for everyone.
This is a very sensitive episode. Okay, Dan, what are
we talking about?

Speaker 5 (11:51):
So today we're talking about episode eight of season six.
This is the Return of Mister Edwards, premiered on August fifth,
nineteen seventy nine. The episode was directed by Michael Landon.
You would expect this episode Michael would have done this one.
Written by Arthur Heineman, shot by Ted Boitlander, Produced by

(12:14):
Kent McCrae Allison.

Speaker 6 (12:17):
What is this about?

Speaker 1 (12:20):
Well, you know Michael did not shy away from things.
Who we've been talking about how he finished book issues
head on. This is one of those. Buckle up. The
return mister Edwards is actually one of the series' darkest
examinations of despair. It really is. After a crippling logging
accident leaves Isaiah unable to walk, which you remember the
eighteen hundreds is the big thing was like modern technology

(12:41):
that could help you out. Youre like a The man
who once embodied rough edge, warmth, strength, frontier vitality, turns inward,
becoming angry, self destructive, nearly unrecognizable.

Speaker 7 (12:51):
To the people who love him.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
I mean, he's like scary to his wife and daughter.

Speaker 3 (12:56):
Yeah, he is.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
In Victor French's performance, Oh my god, the episode reaches
back to the harder, more menacing screen presence he often
brought to earlier roles as heavies and bad men. But
here the darkness is not evil, it's pain and a
lot of it. Charles and Lare's journey to help him
becomes less a rescue mission than a confrontation with what
suffering can do to a proud man when he believes

(13:21):
his usefulness, dignity, and identity had been taken from him.
And that's what's all about. He don't want to be
a burden. He does the macho thing and it doesn't
go well, and it's it gets really intense. And this
is almost like a standalone episode because I start going, well, wait,
and where's Carl and where is this and what's happened? Oh,
this is movie. This is like a little movie by itself,

(13:44):
starring Victor of French and not for small children. And
if this air today, there would be like this is
a very special episode. There'd be warnings at every commercial break.
This can trigger warning. Yes, I'm settling up a material
that may be distressing to some people, and there would
be a hotline number that at the end of it.

Speaker 5 (14:06):
Right, do you think you could even make Do you
think in the climate we're in would anyone make this episode?

Speaker 1 (14:14):
I don't know. The couple of scenes I don't think
you could show. I think I don't think.

Speaker 6 (14:19):
But it differently, but it would have to show it differently.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
There's a couple of scenes I was slack jogging. I
count believe this is actually happening in an episode. And
but that's the thing, that's what Michael did. He's like, no,
we're not going to look away. We're not going to
look away. We're going to confront this head on, and
he does.

Speaker 3 (14:37):
I think you could. I mean, certainly on streaming. On
streaming services, you know there's dark stuff.

Speaker 6 (14:42):
There's no limits, there's no limits.

Speaker 3 (14:44):
But I think you're right when you're like, there would
be a trigger warning before the episode, and then there
would be a hotline you could call after the episode.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
Right, claw could the Family hour at eight pm on
network television.

Speaker 7 (14:58):
I think you have four teen fits if you showed
this now.

Speaker 3 (15:02):
Yeah, it's super intense. I said, I didn't watched this
in years, and I had sort of forgotten all of
the details in this one, and I was dumbfounded watching this.
I truly was like, Holy moly, this is really intense.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
Also, how about an actor is Victor French?

Speaker 6 (15:23):
Yeah, yeah, so I remember. So it had to have
been during my first episodes.

Speaker 5 (15:32):
You're back to school, Michael, Yes, Michael had to get out.

Speaker 6 (15:35):
In front of this because it's the season six this.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
We were just mere moments ago, you know, goofing around
and doing cinnamon Chicken and opening restaurants and making fools
out of ourselves and having month fights, and suddenly this happens.

Speaker 5 (15:50):
But what I what I remember distinctly about this elson
is that the company was at the Little House and
that's where the day started. And I just remember Michael
gathering everybody around who was on the on call that
morning to announce to the company and this was all
brand new to me, uh, to announce to the company

(16:11):
that he was bringing Victor French back. And he was
he was really really excited his.

Speaker 6 (16:20):
Friend back.

Speaker 3 (16:22):
I wonder what the I wonder who reached out to who?
Because they had had a Michael was angry with him,
That's why he was. Yeah, I wonder who reached out
to who? Like, how did that reconciliation?

Speaker 1 (16:35):
Oh?

Speaker 6 (16:35):
I think I think I think Michael would.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
Have driven out because it was the whole thing where Okay,
Victor got an offer to do Garter Country and as
an actor, someone says, you go star in your own
freaking show. We're gonna pay you this much and be ready,
people are gonna.

Speaker 7 (16:49):
Go see Michael couldn't. It was shocked that he did it.

Speaker 5 (16:54):
Here here was the thing I think. I don't think
Victor had a contract on the laws, right.

Speaker 7 (16:59):
I don't think he did.

Speaker 3 (17:02):
Character like Doc Baker and Reverinald, and.

Speaker 5 (17:05):
He was used more often, but he was a recurring character.
I think I think where this. I think if Michael
had offered him a contract sort of in the realm
that he wanted to be in, you sort of feel
like he maybe would have stayed.

Speaker 6 (17:22):
Although I don't know that. You know, pretty it's pretty
seductive when you are offered to be the leading character
in a network sitcom in that era that was a big,
big ticket.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
We're heading down paid well too.

Speaker 6 (17:38):
So yes, yes, I mean he was number Victor was
number one on the call sheet and that show.

Speaker 5 (17:43):
I mean there's you know, he was Carter, it was
Carter Country. I mean he was the man.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
And contractor break. He's like, well, I'm a free agent,
how can this not be okay? But Michael is like
what I mean, of course, what was going on?

Speaker 7 (17:58):
I had a contract.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
I mean, you know, go figure. There were tons of people,
didn't I shud it? But yeah, and so it was weird.
And then you had the whole thing with the Garv's
and the thing, and then it's like, I guess the
first freaking opportunity. It was like like Carter Country likes
what got canceled.

Speaker 5 (18:16):
It got canceled at the end of the nineteen seventy
nine season, and Merlin.

Speaker 3 (18:20):
Got offered something else at the same time, right, I mean,
did he get Father Murphy and.

Speaker 6 (18:27):
Then Father Murphy for him? But that hadn't happened, not yet.
I think there was when they were both on the show.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
I think this episode because they were never together, they
told together, but he's there, and I'm like, is this
is this the crossover? This is the moment when they
went like this, I.

Speaker 3 (18:44):
Mean, what synchronicity. If Merlin was leaving the show and
Victor all of a sudden now is available to come
back to the show.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
I don't it seems like they created Father Murphy, like
gave him Father Murphy because well, we don't really want
you to go away, but we got Victor back and
mister Garvey mister Edwards cannot exist at the same time.

Speaker 5 (19:06):
Given that I really liked Michael, really liked both of
these men. You know, obviously Victor as a Victor as
a talent gave him a window into stories and an
approach to stories that no one.

Speaker 6 (19:22):
Else could give him totally in his immediate universe.

Speaker 5 (19:27):
I mean, you know, Victor was so and Victor added
the component that he could direct and direct beautifully.

Speaker 6 (19:36):
So beautiful.

Speaker 5 (19:38):
There was a lot in that choice to bring Victor back,
and I'm.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
Just so curious to see how quickly those fences were
mended between the two of them, right.

Speaker 7 (19:48):
What was that conversation?

Speaker 1 (19:50):
Like that conversation did he call them and go, hey,
so you're showing it you want to come back?

Speaker 3 (19:56):
Was there like an actual like hey, I'm sorry things
when I'm just so curious And we'll never know.

Speaker 5 (20:04):
But obviously possible that Tracy French knows, But I think
Tracy's very tactful.

Speaker 6 (20:09):
I don't know that she'd ever get into it.

Speaker 7 (20:11):
I just got visions, you know, how Michael was.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
I have visions of him being kind of sarcastic about it,
like dying to have him back, but still wanting to
get one up on him, and like, so you sugar
cancel looking for work, and like, you know, there may
have been an entree like that I can hear him
doing it, but you can also see him being so
happy to have Victor back because he did love he

(20:34):
loved him.

Speaker 3 (20:35):
Yeah, well he wouldn't have been as crushed had he
not loved him.

Speaker 5 (20:39):
I mean, yeah, I know that's right, And I think,
well they were a great pairing of Victor could cover
the comedy, Victor could cover the tragedy. Victor could play
in all the emotional spaces that Michael.

Speaker 6 (20:54):
Wanted to play in and do it so effortlessly.

Speaker 3 (21:01):
And that's one of the reasons why mister Edwards is
such a compelling character, because even though is that is
that someone in the back, I didn't know if someone
was trying to get you for something, Okay, No, I
was saying just that, you know, and I know I

(21:23):
certainly have no people like this in my life, where
you know, the presenting front presenting is the happy, go lucky,
the life of the party, the comedy, the fun, the joy,
and then there's that other side, which is the darkness,
the despair, the depression, perhaps just a darkness. And the

(21:44):
reason if mister Edwards is just the funny guy, we'd
still like him. But the reason why we love him
is because of the darkness of the character, and we
understand that the comedy comes out of that also and
from Yeah, and in this episode in particular, I such
when deniably human.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
I felt like, even in the pilot, when you first
meet him, it's like, oh, hi, Sannah, his eyes and
the way Victors played it, Yeah, he said, a pioneer
dude out in the eighteen hundreds who's had a very
hard life and it's really happy to be spending time
with a nice family and making the kids happy because
his regular day is not like this. A tormented guy.

Speaker 3 (22:31):
Yeah, he's a tormented man.

Speaker 6 (22:33):
Yeah, no, there's there's there's no question. And look, I
think with you know, without I mean, I don't know
the full the totality. I don't know if any of
us know the totality of what Victor went through as
a person. But Victor.

Speaker 5 (22:48):
Was a very intense presence when you were around him.
And despite all this sort of you know, mister Edwards,
you know, fun fun time, you could just see that
that could turn in a second, anytime could turn a
second and all there.

Speaker 6 (23:07):
Yeah, he had everything going.

Speaker 5 (23:10):
And I think there was from an acting perspective or
for use as an actor, there were such.

Speaker 6 (23:17):
Deep wells of sadness. Yes, that it just was.

Speaker 5 (23:20):
You could see it. I mean you mentioned it in
his eyes. You look in his eyes and you see
the sadness.

Speaker 6 (23:25):
Yeah. There may be a twinkle, okay, you know a lot,
but their sadness behind the twinkle.

Speaker 3 (23:31):
So all right, this one, okay, this one now, I
don't know if you guys notice this, but the right
off the bat, the episode starts and there is zero
David Rose music. It is mister Edwards, who we have
not seen for four years now.

Speaker 5 (23:47):
Yeah, all three full seasons.

Speaker 3 (23:49):
Three full seasons, singing a cappella, his trademark old Nantucker,
which immediately what you're immediately like, as soon as the
episode starts, something is coming, Something is coming. It's a
very unusual start, but also brilliant, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
And then the crazy Eddie Quinlan, the crazy character actory talked.
That's Eddie Quinlan. Seven episodes short episodes of Little House
of the Prairie.

Speaker 7 (24:18):
This man was in, he never left. He did seven episodes.

Speaker 1 (24:22):
If you go to his IMDb, his credits go back
to nineteen twenty six. His first film he shot in
nineteen twenty six and is just continuous all the way
up until he stopped breathing. This man Eddie Quinlan was bananas.

Speaker 6 (24:40):
Wasn't he the cabin boy on the original mutant on
the Mutiny on the Bouty?

Speaker 1 (24:44):
Probably, I mean he was, I mean he was somewhere
in the thirties or who was.

Speaker 5 (24:51):
That's that's always been the story that I've understood.

Speaker 6 (24:54):
That was one of his first I believe, on Mutiny
on the Bouty.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
He was in every major emotion pictures were made, apparently.
Yeah amazing, Yeah.

Speaker 6 (25:06):
Yeah, no, amazing.

Speaker 5 (25:07):
And always a different guy he's in the little house,
He's always a different character. That was Michael's deal with him,
is that he was going to be you know, He's
just going to be that guy.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
So it was was it an? Yes?

Speaker 3 (25:23):
So Edwards is a logger now he's man doing logging.

Speaker 6 (25:30):
Very he's back in the big woods? Is there is
there suggesting that? Yeah that the beautiful, the beautiful uh
forest country of Sonora is where we were shooting this
where the episode was shot.

Speaker 5 (25:45):
But yes, it is, I think supposed to be the
big Woods of Wisconsin is where he's back working.

Speaker 3 (25:50):
I was wondering where where they shot this one okay. Uh,
and long story short, there's a horrific accident. Yes, uh,
his his daughter Alicia, who's the young Kylie Richards comes
and visits him. Real housewife Kylie Richards and uh, long
story short, timber, a tree starts falling, the little girl

(26:14):
is in the way. He runs after her. She gets
out of the way, but he gets clipped by the tree.
And my god, the way they filmed this scene, I.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
Was I was watching it like.

Speaker 3 (26:26):
It was absolutely terrifying and.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
A horrible accident. He was terrified that this little girl
was going to die in front of him because that
always happened. So it's like trauma upon trauma upon trauma,
and it's horrifying.

Speaker 3 (26:41):
Terrifying watching it for sure. Okay, So now we're back
at that. We're at the Blind House mon Pa with
team Adam and Mary. Hashtag team Adam and Mary. Those
hashtag team Adam people about he ever comes on the podcast.

(27:06):
You know, I'm switching to Adam. Okay, but you know
that it will just be temporary.

Speaker 6 (27:15):
Keep telling it so so.

Speaker 3 (27:17):
Uh they Charles and Carolyn are reading a letter that's
come from Grace, Grace Isaiah's wife, saying that he's been
in this terrible accident. He's also in a very bad way.
He's depressed and in a very very bad way.

Speaker 5 (27:36):
We get to see Adam be sort of be a
psychologist for a minute. I picked up on that aspect
of Adam as being sort of philosophical, but he really
plays psychologists. Arthur Heinemann wrote him to be sort of
the answer man on this totally.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
Because as the teacher's blind school, not just married, he
had to deal with multiple people who have secuitly become
blind and were angry about it. And she's seen this
and helped he I did it first, go why is
he talking about poor Mary like she's not in the room.
I was like, dude, But she totally made the point
when he went, well we could when she first couldn't see,

(28:18):
she was furious.

Speaker 7 (28:19):
She was very distraughted. And yeah, you guys.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
All loved her because say, oh, well everybody loves mister
Edwards's wife loved her, and he said, and everybody loved Mary,
but it took a complete outsider, someone who's not in
her world to get her to be.

Speaker 7 (28:33):
Able to do what she's doing now. And it's like
he's right.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
Right, He's absolutely right However, speaking of talking about Mary
like she's not there, this is now I'm a younger sister,
so let me just make this is personal for a second.
You're like, what we gonna do? What can we do?
And PA's like, well, I'll go out there, or before

(28:58):
even he says that. Mo's like, Laura should go visit him.
There's nobody he loves more than Laura.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
Laura is the one that can.

Speaker 3 (29:05):
And Mary is sitting right there, it's going rude when
she went.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
Blind, blah blah blah as she was a mess, you know,
when she went black, and then we should send the other.

Speaker 7 (29:18):
Yeah, I was sitting there rude.

Speaker 6 (29:21):
It is in my personal Yeah, but he did.

Speaker 5 (29:24):
But Michael didn't cut to her.

Speaker 3 (29:26):
No, no, but just the whole thing. I was like,
come on, come on, And again I took it personally
because we do. We did when I was very little.
We did have a very beloved cousin who sort of
preferred myself, Like it was very obvious that my sister
was like the favorite and I wasn't. So it's okay,
it's all worked out, it's fine. But I was very

(29:47):
aware that, like there's a definite preference for the other sister,
and so when I was watching the scene, I was like, no,
not not in front of Mary.

Speaker 6 (29:57):
Even if it's.

Speaker 5 (29:57):
True, Mary was the proper correct one. Laura was the
you know, Laura was the spunky.

Speaker 8 (30:04):
Yeah, that's right, you know, on paper, and they did
all the house that was sort of questionable.

Speaker 1 (30:15):
We're going to make the child or teenage girl might
be suddenly somehow responsible for the psychological wealthy. I mean,
I know, I know, like, oh, Greg, dear me. But
it's true. It's true. The whole spitting thing, the whole
Laura Edward's relationship.

Speaker 7 (30:32):
There is a thing there.

Speaker 3 (30:33):
There's a thing not although awkward in the sense of
like not to mention that Laura's in her Britney spears,
I'm not a girl, not yet a woman face in.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
This you know what. Episodes ago, she was trying to
marry Elmanso, and now we're back to break.

Speaker 3 (30:49):
Episodes later, she's engaged like it's insane. But yeah, she's
in that sort of in between place. We'll get to
more of that later.

Speaker 5 (30:58):
Yeah, right, no, exactly, so she so they agreed Charles,
Charles and Caroline decide yes, we'll both go together, and
cut to we're at the Edwards house in the Big Woods,
and Shorty delivers the mail and Isaiah doesn't want it,
and uh, Grace gives the news that Charles and Caroline,

(31:19):
Charles and Laura are coming, and brother mister Edwards is not.

Speaker 6 (31:24):
Happy about it.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
Do you just want to be seen like that? I
knew you just want to be seen weak? And He's like, no, no, no, no,
I've seen this. We've all seen it. We've all seen
people do this.

Speaker 3 (31:35):
Now they finally arrive, and I just want to say,
Grace first is the one that greets Charles and Laura.
Laura runs off with Alicia, and then Grace breaks down
and Charles is hugging her, And all I want to
say is I want to be hugged the way that
Charles is hugging Grace Edwards.

Speaker 6 (31:57):
The only thing that.

Speaker 3 (32:00):
Every no, no, his shirt does not have to be off.
Just the embrace, the strong embrace with the strong hands.
Come on, come no.

Speaker 5 (32:12):
I mean look, no, Michael gave good hug and being
clearly there was there was yeah, there was a lot
of he enveloped her.

Speaker 6 (32:20):
I mean it's just like he let and let it go.
I let it go, release this and.

Speaker 3 (32:27):
And I love that she did that after after Alicia left,
she wouldn't let herself very good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7 (32:33):
And anyone in America went, I.

Speaker 3 (32:36):
Need that hug, dude, the hug. Come on, Dean, you
noticed the hug. Come on.

Speaker 6 (32:42):
It's no great hug, no question. And that's how you
want to be hugged.

Speaker 5 (32:50):
That's why if you're the guy doing that, you want
to hug somebody that way.

Speaker 6 (32:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (32:55):
No, I literally reship.

Speaker 6 (32:57):
How they feel about each other.

Speaker 5 (32:58):
It's all the way he picks up up Alicia, when
you know, he picks her up and holds her and.

Speaker 6 (33:03):
You look, you know, you're growing up and all that. No,
it's all really, it's great stuff.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
Yeah, it's real good.

Speaker 6 (33:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (33:11):
Now Charles enters the room. Do bad mistake, big mistake, huge,
because Isaiah is not happy to see him.

Speaker 6 (33:22):
Ye you look, Charles says, you look best.

Speaker 5 (33:25):
Hind end up because you know Victor Francis or Isaiah's
I'm not quite sure.

Speaker 6 (33:31):
Why he's displayed this way on the bed, and he
does it a couple of times.

Speaker 7 (33:36):
Well, he's back and leg's been hurt.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
To bed, he must be a cruciating pain and they
can't see eighteen hundreds you just have to like get
in positions.

Speaker 3 (33:43):
So all I was thinking was no broken bones, no scars,
no like like his skin was fine, but that's okay.
We can suspend.

Speaker 6 (33:52):
Well he shows doesny doesn'ty show?

Speaker 5 (33:56):
Yes, well he shows Charles, but you don't see anything anything, so.

Speaker 3 (34:00):
You can imagine. But then later on the episode you
do see his legs and they're totally fine. But that's okay.
We can spend belief and and know that he is hurt. Yes, Anyway,
this scene makes such a crazy dramatic like I was
watching it and almost started giggling out of how uncomfortable

(34:21):
I was by how dramatic this scene is. I was like,
they are going all in on this scene, which is
Isaiah says like, fine, you want to see here, I
can show you how I walk, can show you walk.
And he gets up and he tries and he falls
flat on his face and it's just like the music
is super intense, the moment is super intense. Charles is

(34:44):
shocked beyond belief that this guy even did this in
the first place. What does he say, go home and
tell everyone how good I crawled?

Speaker 6 (34:54):
Yeah, exactly, Well.

Speaker 3 (34:55):
The.

Speaker 1 (34:59):
Ratio look one, it's so bitter and screwed up.

Speaker 3 (35:04):
Yes, and like, oh this because he's crawling on the
floor after.

Speaker 6 (35:08):
He falls, ragging himself across it.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
He's showing off how humiliated he feels by not being
like making it worse and okay, and that was the one, like, yeah,
I said the nervous laughter because it's so it's so uncoming, it's.

Speaker 3 (35:23):
So over the top, but in a very real way.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Remember writing down, if anyone but Victor French had tried
to do this scene, it wouldn't have worked. It would
have been too much over the top. You would have laughed.
But Yer did it, and you cringed in horror. Yes,
this poor man, and what oh no, no, he's really doing.

Speaker 3 (35:40):
You for valid do it? Thank you for validating the
weird nervous laughter about it all because it's so over
the top, but because he does it so well, it's.

Speaker 5 (35:49):
Yeah, perfect, well no, but but Michael's line as he
leaves the room, you know, he's very clear with that
with mister, I keep calling him Victor, I can't see
not see a picture. But but he he says to Isaiah,
Laura's coming to visit you soon. Don't put on an
act for her, right he's stopped buying this.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
Please don't do this, don't don't crawl on the floor
for long. Yeah, that was sick, and we don't need that.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
It was sick, Yes.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
It was.

Speaker 3 (36:21):
It was pathetic.

Speaker 9 (36:22):
You know, just well this you know, so this is
you know, this is this is I think the space
that Little House lives in so beautifully as you get
to see people in the sort of the bottom of despair,
at the ends of their wits.

Speaker 5 (36:41):
And and it's how this is managed. That's everything, and
this goes, this works its way through the series. This
whole way of coping with disaster is a constant, a
constant formula within the program. So so Michael or Arthur

(37:02):
Heinemann and Michael crap.

Speaker 6 (37:03):
So everything's in play here.

Speaker 5 (37:05):
We know how we know how bad this is for
mister Edwards.

Speaker 6 (37:10):
I mean clearly you know Charles and or Charles knows
that Grace's letter there was nothing over the top about
the letter.

Speaker 5 (37:18):
She's really in her wits end. She doesn't know what
to do here. So this is this is really tough.
So now so we cut to the Also he leaves,
he's walking the horses, cut interior the house. Laura ties
a bow now is it the is it what is
this garment that she gives Alicia?

Speaker 3 (37:36):
Just is it a dress?

Speaker 6 (37:37):
That she's a dress?

Speaker 1 (37:39):
Yeah? What she did?

Speaker 3 (37:40):
She thought that was I figured it was like a
hand me down, like one of her old dresses.

Speaker 6 (37:45):
That okay, yeah, I mean what I assumed.

Speaker 3 (37:48):
I could be very wrong.

Speaker 6 (37:49):
Yeah, I mean because.

Speaker 5 (37:50):
She's tying the bow on this one on what looks
like an apron, but it's not.

Speaker 6 (37:54):
It's more than an apron.

Speaker 5 (37:56):
Yeah, yeah, anyway, but that's what she gives her, and
and Laura ties the ball on into colors are beautiful
on you, and let's go show your paw. He doesn't
like people in his room, Laura. Visitors cheer people up,
not paw. He doesn't want me to look at him.
Maybe he blames me for what happened.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
Died This little girl, this sweet little girl who we've
already established he dotes on and loves has now said.
I think he blames me because he was saving me.
I think my father blames me and is mad at
me now and refuses.

Speaker 7 (38:30):
To let me in his room.

Speaker 1 (38:31):
Ah ah again more, that.

Speaker 3 (38:34):
Is exactly what ends.

Speaker 6 (38:36):
Yeah, yeah, I think I think any exactly. I think
most children would blame themselves.

Speaker 3 (38:40):
In that moment totally.

Speaker 6 (38:45):
Yes, I mean.

Speaker 3 (38:46):
Literally, like the tree falling was brutal in itself, and
then every single thing that comes after it is like
just so rough. I mean, it's it's so hard to
take this episode. It is really difficult.

Speaker 5 (39:00):
So, I mean, Laura assures Alicia it's not your fault,
and she goes to see mister Edwards. Now really interesting.
She hasn't seen mister Edwards in a long time. Arthur
Hyman wrote a pretty snappy exchange right here, so it's like, wow,
she steps in the door, but victor, mister Edwards starts

(39:24):
it right. But no, no, she starts if you were
a gentleman, you'd say hello.

Speaker 6 (39:31):
If if you was a lady, you would have knocked oo.

Speaker 7 (39:36):
And it's a hell because remember she's still a very
young girl. I well, you're a lady.

Speaker 1 (39:41):
What a knock? I fell off out And that he's
he's in such a place that the filter is gone,
he's gonna say stuff like this, yeah, yes, yes, this's
just it was so real. It was so real it
was killing me.

Speaker 6 (40:00):
I mean, yeah, that being like bitter why, I mean,
this does sort of it reveals the depth of that
this goes this is not this is more than a childhood.
It is that, but in that moment, it's much more than.

Speaker 3 (40:15):
That, totally in that little moment.

Speaker 6 (40:17):
And it's like they're writing a maturity for Laura. She's
growing up.

Speaker 5 (40:24):
Right before our eyes here to be able to say
that to him, that's a big girl thing to say.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
It is.

Speaker 3 (40:30):
However, it's a little girl thing to say. But people
like getting visitors when they're not feeling well.

Speaker 6 (40:41):
So it's like the two sides of this.

Speaker 3 (40:43):
That's what I'm saying. She's in her Britney Spears era.
She's not a girl, not yet a woman.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
She's just in that.

Speaker 3 (40:48):
Weird one Like one minute she's totally a little girl
in this girl in this episode completely and then another
minute she's showing more of them and that is exactly right,
Like that's exactly what we are.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
At that there.

Speaker 7 (41:04):
Yeah, and then he's like, when are you put in
your hair up?

Speaker 1 (41:06):
And he's say, aren't you grown up? Now?

Speaker 3 (41:08):
Ward Edwards speaks for us all in this one exchange. Okay,
this is like the question of.

Speaker 6 (41:18):
You you obviously got to him.

Speaker 3 (41:20):
Well annoys me that she's still in the braids at
this age. I really, it really is something that I'm
like about. Yeah, He's like, what are you doing still
wearing these braids? And I'm like, yeah, but what are
you doing wearing the braids?

Speaker 6 (41:37):
Then then he follows that she he follows that with
you got yourself above spark a question, yeah, and then
she sort of looks away, doesn't look him in the eye,
and answers, nobody is special, uh, nobody as special as you.
So they're all good here.

Speaker 7 (41:57):
But she never mentions you.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
She doesn't say, oh, by the way, I love the monsa,
but never mind, that's another story because it's this standalone
little movie and we're just not dragging anybody else into
the star yet, yes, right, not doing it.

Speaker 6 (42:12):
So and then they then they reminiscent.

Speaker 5 (42:14):
Well, she makes sure she you know, she acknowledges that
she can still spit. And then they they talk about
the first remember our first Christmas? Isaiah asked her and
walked in, was in the snow, just to bring his presence, and.

Speaker 6 (42:27):
And then he just he can't really, he can't really
continue after that. You know, It's it's so interesting. I
the way this is written. I remember when my.

Speaker 5 (42:36):
Father was ill at the end of his life, he
could carry on a really good conversation for about a
minute and a half and then it was over.

Speaker 6 (42:49):
Yeah, he couldn't do more than that.

Speaker 5 (42:51):
And he could make you feel like he was fine
for about a minute and then and I think you're
I mean, it's it's mental fatigue.

Speaker 6 (42:59):
It's this lack of will I mean whatever it is.

Speaker 5 (43:04):
That rung very true to me that he could carry
on this conversation for a moment, but he didn't have
much after that.

Speaker 10 (43:11):
Yeah, So so okay, So I so she Laura, you know, yeah, No,
she's being she's being loving and supportive and other than
the snappy comment about a gentleman and you know all that.

Speaker 6 (43:31):
Okay, what did he do?

Speaker 7 (43:33):
You've seen me by long Johnson. Now you see me
my night.

Speaker 6 (43:35):
He get out.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
It's like enough, great, just all this, it's just.

Speaker 3 (43:41):
Ban Yeah, it's really good. It's really good. So is
now is now dinner time? And Grace is making dinner?

Speaker 6 (43:47):
Well, it's it's not well. Actually, the last thing we
see from the bed before the act ends is Isaiah.
Uh Isaiah gets he what he moves out.

Speaker 5 (43:59):
Of the bed and looks through the curtains and sees Charles.

Speaker 6 (44:04):
Chopping right doing work out and uh.

Speaker 5 (44:10):
Yeah, and so she you know, he really he's not
happy to see that. I mean you could see that dark,
dark look Isaiah's eyes and we fade to black at.

Speaker 6 (44:22):
The end of that one.

Speaker 3 (44:23):
He's so damn good. Where's the Emmy nom for him?

Speaker 1 (44:31):
I mean, she's any other show, he would have had
an Emmy for this episode.

Speaker 6 (44:37):
I don't know. I think you know, fam knowing how
you know, how dialed in you are on the craft. Yeah,
you would have been. And he would have loved you too.

Speaker 3 (44:49):
I mean I think I would have loved him.

Speaker 6 (44:51):
I don't think there's my god. I mean that would
have been. You would have had a really wonderful time
with him, because he it was all about the acting
all the time. That's that was the focus of his life.
It was the acting of the directing. But it was
about performance all the time. Yeah, I mean, you would

(45:13):
have really enjoyed him.

Speaker 3 (45:15):
So he's a genius.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (45:17):
Now Grace is preparing dinner.

Speaker 6 (45:19):
Yes, now at the yes this scene.

Speaker 3 (45:22):
Dude, come on, Okay, eating dinner. Isaiah's not coming to dinner.
As they're eating dinner, they hear glass shattering in Isaiah's
room and the kid. Alicia and Grace like they don't
bat a eye. This is the new normal for them
every day and Grace just has to tell Charles and Laura.

(45:44):
Sometimes he throws things, you know, and then there's another
thud and she's like, oh, he's fallen. I mean, imagine
that's your life. Now. You're hearing these violent, horrifying sounds
from this man's bedroom. Who is and there's nothing you
can do about it except go, oh yeah, he's yeah,

(46:05):
m hm.

Speaker 6 (46:06):
We're just gonna We're gonna have dinner.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
And go on here, right, exact we do every night
we eat dinner, has a tantrum and screams.

Speaker 3 (46:14):
Right, except then the door opens and Edwards comes.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
Rest.

Speaker 3 (46:20):
He trust he's gotten his appetite back. He he he
wants them.

Speaker 6 (46:25):
Well and he and he's mister Edwards again.

Speaker 3 (46:27):
That's right. He's putting on the show. This is what
I was like. I was like, oh, he's putting on
the show. He's given the people what they want and
he knows it is going.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
Oh smell of that dinner.

Speaker 3 (46:40):
The old stick, the old stick. And let me tell
you something I don't know if you guys listen. Trigger
warning for the audience. This episode does deal with self
harm and unliving yourself, and I personally have had a
close friend who unlived himself twenty five years ago, twenty

(47:04):
seven years ago. And he was a comedy writer, he
was a stand up comedian. He was the life of
the party. He was the happiest guy you knew he was.
He was an extrovert. He was that guy. And he's
the one that's no longer here. And so that's why

(47:26):
I think I think the Edwards character is so brilliant
because of just how real it is, like this happens
all the time. The happiest people you know are the
ones suffering the most in behind the scenes.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
Just like Adam was so dead right psychologically, this episode
is absolutely letter perfect correct because when people who are
going to run life themselves they make a plan, they're depressed, depressed, depressed, angry, depressed, depressed,
and then they make a plan and go, I have
found a solution. I have found the way out.

Speaker 7 (47:58):
And it is not the way out.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
It just as they say, a permanent solution to a
temporary problem. But when someone who's in that spot believes
that they've found it, and I've had more than one
do this, when they think they've latched on too. I
know what I'm gonna do. Now they perk up and
they say. Doctors say, now, this is the most dangerous moment.
If you have someone in your life and again here

(48:21):
we are called the hallline. If it's someone in your
life is extraordinarily depressed.

Speaker 7 (48:25):
You've been worried about.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
Them, and there's been issues, and they've been to the
doctor and it really is severe depression, and they've talked
about doing things themselves, and they suddenly stop and go, no,
everything's great. That is when everyone needs to be really scared,
because unfortunately people do this right before they do it,
and this is classic behavior. And him coming out going no,

(48:46):
I'm great, Yeah, we should totally go do something when
you know that, and he played it. He played it,
He's like, that's great, and there's still that hat on
the showing in the back of his eyes, and it
was like for me, it was like a horror movy
because I knew what he was doing. I went, oh no, oh, no,
no oh, no, he's doing that now. No, no, there
it was.

Speaker 6 (49:08):
I mean, it's there's such deliberate strategy in this. Uh,
it's interesting.

Speaker 5 (49:14):
Of course, everybody involved is you know, Charles Grace there,
they're not experts in psychology.

Speaker 6 (49:21):
They don't necessarily understand this.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
The seventies, for heaven's sakes, how would they know this.

Speaker 3 (49:27):
That's right. He got a visit from his two closest people,
and now he's happy again. Sure. Yeah, and then Laura
and then he and then and then Isaiah says, come on,
I want to go hunting.

Speaker 6 (49:38):
Right exactly, let's go get some medison. I want some medicine.

Speaker 3 (49:43):
And Charles is like, great, right.

Speaker 6 (49:46):
And Laura wants to come and hunting isn't for squeamish females.

Speaker 3 (49:50):
No, And you can see the wheels turning where he's like, no,
not her, Yeah, yeah, yeah, And he knows.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
That she loves fishing and hunting. And she said, what
are you trying to? Never been screaming my life? What on
earth are you talking about?

Speaker 7 (50:01):
This is Laura?

Speaker 1 (50:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (50:03):
So Laura says, I've never been squeamed by I won't
get the way. He says, females are always in the way.
That's I know, I know that's talk about a trigger
for Pamela. That's like, that's not a big.

Speaker 3 (50:21):
I mean, listen, it's another was saying it and I
understood it was another time. But yeah, it's just it's rough,
especially because we I mean, I understood what was going
on in this moment. I couldn't. I could see that
he had a plan and something was wanted.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
He did not yeah, and he did not.

Speaker 3 (50:41):
Want her to be there because he knew he was
going to hurt himself.

Speaker 5 (50:45):
Right.

Speaker 6 (50:45):
So but then Laura, So Laura turns to her father
and asks the last you know, asks.

Speaker 5 (50:50):
Again, and he says you you can go, and Isaiah
says bad ideas.

Speaker 6 (50:56):
Yeah, yeah, and.

Speaker 5 (50:58):
Then Charles, his course, got thinking on a completely different track.

Speaker 6 (51:02):
I'm not eating your camp cooking and you're not eating mine.
We better have her.

Speaker 3 (51:06):
Here because the girls are good for the girls with
a button, which is awesome when she does. We'll come
to that soon. But yeah, yeah, because that's what the
lady is.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
Are good for the cooking.

Speaker 3 (51:21):
Well, which was probably true, but in this case anyway.

Speaker 5 (51:26):
So, yes, he can't wait to get out into the
country and to smell the woods and all that. And
we cut too, We cut to the prairie and they're
riding through this beautiful setting. I noticed something about this
episode also, this is sort of a technical thing This
is another one of those episodes, particularly these happened in
Michael's episodes, which which are when the episode is so

(51:46):
visual there is much less dialogue.

Speaker 6 (51:50):
There is much there is.

Speaker 5 (51:52):
It is very cinematic in that sense that we watched
this happen, we don't talk about it happening, which is,
you know, sort of interesting.

Speaker 3 (52:02):
So classic little house on the prairie, that's like a staple.

Speaker 5 (52:05):
Yeah, beautiful setting. Victor mister Edwards singing Old Dan Tucker.

Speaker 6 (52:11):
He sings. I think he only knew one verse of
the song.

Speaker 3 (52:16):
I literally was thinking while I was watching this, Oh
my god. If I was out with this guy for
hours and and the only thing he's doing is singing
Old Tucker over and over, I would I would kill him.
He wouldn't have to do it.

Speaker 7 (52:29):
Get out of the wagon.

Speaker 6 (52:31):
God.

Speaker 1 (52:32):
Yes.

Speaker 6 (52:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (52:33):
So cut after cutter cut, he's just singing the verse again.

Speaker 3 (52:40):
But then here comes this scene I found really interesting
where he's talking to Charles. The two of them are
together and he's talking telling him about the story about
the Native Americans. He used to be with a black Crow,
Black Crow, and he's talking about this the influence he

(53:01):
had with this man and this tribe, and all of
a sudden, little house on the prairie became like that
historical factual show again that we haven't seen since like
the pilot or season one maybe, do.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (53:17):
Like we've been in fantasy prairie land for many seasons,
which is fabulous. We love fantasy prairie land. But all
of a sudden we were steeped into the actual reality
of what life was on the prairie, at least for Edwards,
and it I thought it was so amazing. It actually
made me crave more of that.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
Suddenly it's the Native Americans in the relationship with the landyards.
And this is what a menton would do when you go,
well the markings because the deer and he would say
that the deer, and we're going, where is that? B's
a PDAs special.

Speaker 3 (53:52):
Wow, totally, so totally.

Speaker 6 (53:54):
Something that I noticed about the scene. I think that's
interesting that you picked up on that.

Speaker 5 (53:58):
What I picked up a meal is the this was
really bad day for night in this scene. Now they
set this ted boit lander, knowing that they were going
to shoot this in full daylight, put him at a
backdrop against some beautiful sequoias and trees, but deep, deep

(54:19):
into the background of the shot. It's full sun.

Speaker 6 (54:22):
I mean, there's no it's stop.

Speaker 3 (54:24):
This because it's in HD now and we can see everything.

Speaker 5 (54:30):
I think it's very possible that we see it a
little better than we maybe did then. But it was
clearly as you're watching the scene, it's clearly full.

Speaker 6 (54:40):
Daylight as they're doing this, but they play it for night.

Speaker 5 (54:45):
If there's the fire, they start on the fire pit,
classic nighttime pan up. You know, we're led to believe
that it's that it's nighttime. It's actually day And this
just goes to show. I mean, we shot night for
night there very rarely, and it only happened on a
Friday night and you were out there, and so you

(55:06):
had the seventy two hour turnaround rule, and you just
you didn't shoot nights and turn around the next day.
And on location, they're always turning around the next.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
Places we're in location were really wild with wild animals, like, well,
you didn't really want to shoot in the dark and
see Me because something might bite you in the ankle.

Speaker 7 (55:24):
I mean even when we.

Speaker 3 (55:25):
Were even when we were in See Me for the
fiftieth anniversary and the trail guys were like, there are snakes.

Speaker 1 (55:31):
There are snakes. Oh, yes, there were animals. So you
were kind of like, yeah, no, we're gonna get out
of here before.

Speaker 7 (55:38):
So you bet we shot day for night. Let's get
the tags.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
And that is so interesting. I'm gonna have to go
back and look at that. My eye didn't catch it,
so they told me, yeah.

Speaker 5 (55:50):
Yeah, and so he shoots it's really tight. Yeah, so
you know, you could you could, you know, you could
buy it. And the way they're talking about these things
and it's very you know, yeah, it's played very close,
and you get the you know, you get the fire
crackling on the.

Speaker 6 (56:05):
On Isaiah's face and all that.

Speaker 5 (56:10):
But then the next they cut immediately to the next
morning with the sun streaming through the trees.

Speaker 6 (56:14):
It's like, well, wait a minute, you just moved the
camera and shot this like right now.

Speaker 3 (56:18):
Totally.

Speaker 5 (56:23):
But but it just, you know, as a style thing
or as a technical thing and logistical thing.

Speaker 6 (56:32):
This was true throughout the series. Michael.

Speaker 5 (56:34):
I mean, he wanted a level of realism and authenticity,
but the schedule ruled, and he was going to.

Speaker 6 (56:44):
Do what he needed to do to shoot the page count.
And if that's what and that's the way.

Speaker 5 (56:49):
If that's the way cam boarded it, that's the way
they were going to shoot it, and they would did
their very best to mask off the fact that it
was really daytime.

Speaker 3 (56:58):
Do you think, because now a day is in today's TV.
If it's a night scene, you shoot at night. I
mean there's things are so.

Speaker 6 (57:07):
Or you shoot it in front of a green screen
and put people one.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
Night are now because digital doesn't require the insane amounts
of blazing light that the thirty five millimeters panevision did.

Speaker 7 (57:18):
You just you turn the knob again and look at the.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
Dark and you can still shoot it even though it's
dark because the camera will pick it up, whereas you
can't do that.

Speaker 6 (57:28):
You know, there's a there's a you know these things, Pamela.
You know you're a photographer, so you.

Speaker 5 (57:33):
Know all the cameras today have at least the cinema cameras.
Canon has it, Sony has it, black Magic has it,
uh Red has it. They have their they have their
huge range, and so I shoot Sony. So it's s
log which gives you fourteen stops of dynamic range to
play with, so you can paint the picture.

Speaker 6 (57:56):
Any way you want it to be in post. For
anyone to do anything but shoot in log anymore is.

Speaker 5 (58:04):
Insane because you have complete control after the fact to
like relte a scene any way you want to relight.

Speaker 11 (58:12):
It so well later.

Speaker 3 (58:15):
Yeah all right, yeah.

Speaker 5 (58:16):
It's pretty amazing. Anyway, that's too much technical. But here
we are next morning.

Speaker 3 (58:20):
Next morning, going hunting. Isaiah's like, we're going hunting, and
Laura's like, I'm getting ready and he's like, nope, you're
staying here and you're doing the cookieing right.

Speaker 6 (58:32):
No matter where they're going or what they're doing, women
always end up in the kitchen.

Speaker 3 (58:37):
Callelujah, baby. I mean the fact that they wrote this
and the fact that they had Laura acknowledge it. Do
you know how good this felt? Man Like this was
this line, This line is fantastic and I'm so glad
they wrote it in you know, like they they ignowed

(58:58):
the writer acknowledged it.

Speaker 1 (59:00):
And even if it was just a little.

Speaker 3 (59:02):
Comedic like relief moment, a second of comedic relief, or
just an acknowledgment of yeh, ladies, sorry about that, but
this is how it was. It was just excellent. I
loved that line. I thought it was so cool they
put it in Yeah, no matter where they're going or
what they're doing.

Speaker 5 (59:20):
The chen, Yeah, yeah, wherever the kitchen is, yeah, exactly
so and she and she read it really well, so
she read it very knowingly.

Speaker 6 (59:30):
Yes, you know which is uh, you.

Speaker 5 (59:32):
Know which, because because Laura wasn't always ending up in
the kitchen.

Speaker 6 (59:35):
But she understood that. Yep, yeah, she understood that. So
all right, So that Charles and Isaiah are out, you know, Isaiah.

Speaker 5 (59:44):
On his crutch. They're looking for game. Charles finds signs
of a buck. There's fresh spore on the tree because
bucks rubbed their horns on trees.

Speaker 6 (59:55):
So Isaiah, I'll hunk her down, you'll scare him back here.
And Charles walks away, walks right past the buck in
another cut, and the buck starts.

Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
And hens edwards the rifle.

Speaker 6 (01:00:12):
Yes, the other yes, okay, So this is the scene,
I mean, this is the scene that you probably would
not ever be able to shoot this way today.

Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
Not an error. Ter in the family hour at eight o'clock.

Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
Not a family show.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
It would be streaming and it still would have like
a warning label.

Speaker 7 (01:00:34):
But there's no way this was showing the family.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
I were eight o'clock. Bring the kids, there's never ad
not now. It is so graphic. I mean, the things
I was scrawling on the paper, there were expletives when
I was making.

Speaker 7 (01:00:46):
Notes, going oh my goodness, this is terrified.

Speaker 5 (01:00:50):
So starting with the cracking of the stick and to
create the little fork, and as soon as you.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
Had the stick on, what was he doing with this stick?
I immediately was horrified.

Speaker 3 (01:01:00):
So he breaks off this stick and he puts it
in his mouth, you know, bites down on it. And
at first I thought, is he biting down on the
stick because he knows it's gonna hurt and he's gritting down.
And then when I realize no, he's holding the stick
in his mouth while he positions the rifle on the
ground to be pointing at his head. And then he

(01:01:22):
takes the stick out of his mouth and you see
it has prong you know, prong shaped branches on it
that he can then use to reach.

Speaker 6 (01:01:31):
Down, yes, and push the trigger, to.

Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
Push the trigger.

Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
So freakish about this is then why like now they
would probably say, oh my god, you can't run that.
It's so graphic and step by step nowadays people are
so concerned they say, you can't show this is almost
instructional if someone was thinking about doing this, Oh my god,
you're showing them literally second by second step and then
you take the stick, and it's like, it's mind blowing

(01:01:55):
to see that this was shot in the freaking late
seventies here and broadcast, and Michael Landon went, Yep, we're
going to have this entire scene and literally go second
by second in real time, how this guy is going
to attempt to do himself in right on camera. The
one scariest things I've ever seen.

Speaker 5 (01:02:14):
So you know, it's as I'm watching, and I'm not
thinking instructional, but in the sense of committing a heinous
act against yourself again in terms of self harm. I'm
watching this cut for cut, watching Victor make these decisions,

(01:02:36):
watch Isaiah make these decisions about what he's going to
do in his determination to do it.

Speaker 6 (01:02:42):
From that, you know, from that perspective, it's.

Speaker 5 (01:02:45):
Very, very powerful, because there's no Michael does not hide
from it, as you're saying, at all, He's it's right
out there. You're seeing a very big decision being made
on somebody's part.

Speaker 6 (01:02:57):
I mean, do you know.

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
Victor is so good? But you also I remember one
point thinking what in the world had to be going
through Victor French's mind while he is doing this scene.
I don't want to know the inner monologue. I don't
want to know what he was than drawing on for
the This is what it was. I got it. There's
one of the scariest things I've ever seen on GV.

Speaker 3 (01:03:20):
It honestly is. And I know Michael Landa did not
write this episode, but I do wonder what prompted this.
I mean, I wonder if something was, if someone had
a personal experience in their own life that they were
now writing about, or I don't know whether there was
a big suicide prevention like movement going on at the time,
or it just it just because it is so damn specific,

(01:03:48):
you know, just dark, dark, dark, so dark, And how
many minutes is It's not like, oh, he got out
the gun.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
It's like and we're still here and it's still how
long it's still gone going on?

Speaker 5 (01:04:01):
And the music and you know, and David Rose, David
Rose is playing this beat for beat for beat, and
the tension rising as the angle sharpens, looking right up
the barrel of the gun.

Speaker 6 (01:04:19):
It's yeah, it's it's really really strongly done right up
to that crescendo moment in the music and suddenly.

Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
Kicks the guy, but like just in time, just just
just at the very latest possible moment, the very.

Speaker 6 (01:04:40):
Last pus Well and David told us it was the
last possible.

Speaker 3 (01:04:43):
Right, exactly right.

Speaker 5 (01:04:48):
Yeah, yeah, and just and what in God's name are
you doing?

Speaker 3 (01:04:52):
What in God's name are you doing?

Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
Right?

Speaker 6 (01:04:53):
Yeah, I mean it's like.

Speaker 3 (01:04:57):
And then Charles also realizes, like, you you're you planned
this to make it.

Speaker 5 (01:05:04):
This, Yes, that's what this was all about. It looks
like an accident. I'll tell Grace you tripped. Yeah, I mean,
you name me a better way.

Speaker 6 (01:05:14):
We're going home. No, we're not.

Speaker 3 (01:05:17):
And then Charles says, I'm not going to.

Speaker 6 (01:05:18):
Say he's not going to say anything about that, which.

Speaker 3 (01:05:20):
Is also crazy. I mean, I'm sure it's of the time,
and I'm sure many people would feel that way, but
it's also well, no, it's so conflicting. On one hand,
I totally understand why he's saying that. On the other hand, no,
he needs to tell them about that.

Speaker 5 (01:05:37):
He needs to tell his Well, okay, yes, that's that's
I think about it. Uh, Pamela, the stories, well, there
you go, think about the stories that came out of
World War Two and the men that experienced just absolutely
horrific things, and they came.

Speaker 6 (01:05:53):
In for the work. They didn't talk about.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
It, and there was there was a terrible stigma and
shame of as you said, what in God's name are
you doing?

Speaker 7 (01:06:02):
It's an unspeakable act.

Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
It is to take your own life is certainly seen
by many people. And then that are an act. It's
murder he's committing, right, And so he's like, oh my, like, no,
you don't tell anybody. Somebody tried to do that. It's
the worst thing ever.

Speaker 3 (01:06:18):
Right, And in that sense I understood why he said
it in today's.

Speaker 6 (01:06:24):
Today totally totally.

Speaker 3 (01:06:27):
Call the doctor, call everyone. Yeah, right, exactly right.

Speaker 5 (01:06:31):
No, no question, this was a it was a it
was another you know, it was another time. Yeah, I
think in a sense, see, I think a psychiatrist might say,
or a therapist might say, why would you go home
asking the question to the person who's thinking about doing

(01:06:53):
the horrible thing?

Speaker 6 (01:06:54):
Why would you go home and tell anybody? Because they
can't do anything about it.

Speaker 5 (01:06:59):
Yeah, they can't, they can't.

Speaker 6 (01:07:02):
They'll never get that picture out of their head. Why
would you torture someone with that.

Speaker 5 (01:07:10):
Information doesn't mean he's not going to do something horrible,
but it would require.

Speaker 6 (01:07:17):
Telling, would require a whole other set of actions that
no one's really prepared to take. Yeah, in that time,
perhaps I think that.

Speaker 5 (01:07:29):
I think that on the one hand, I mean, I
get what you're saying, Pamela, But on the other hand,
there is an act of kindness in that you're not
going to torture.

Speaker 3 (01:07:37):
Agree, I mean agreed. When I look at it from
the viewpoint of the time, it all makes sense looking
at it from today's.

Speaker 6 (01:07:46):
Oh no, totally different picture.

Speaker 3 (01:07:48):
Different picture.

Speaker 6 (01:07:49):
No, totally.

Speaker 3 (01:07:50):
Also, he's like, come on, we're going home, and.

Speaker 6 (01:07:53):
He takes the guns.

Speaker 5 (01:07:55):
We're going home, and he leaves, and Isaiah is left
to his a and he's in despair and he breaks
down and cries and of back.

Speaker 6 (01:08:04):
Two. Yeah, let's take a break.

Speaker 3 (01:08:07):
Let's we'll be right back. Let's breathe.

Speaker 1 (01:08:10):
Everybody breathe aboard the actual Air Force one at the
Ronald Reagan Presidential Library and Museum throughout the summer. Take
the Little House fiftieth Anniversary tour at Big Sky Movie Ranch.
Less than fifteen minutes from Los Angeles and thirty minutes
from Universal Studios. Seem Valley has small town charm with

(01:08:31):
big jime history. Go to visit see Valley dot com
for more information. We are so grateful to visit seemi
Valley dot com for their commitment to presenting The Little
House fiftieth Anniversary podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:08:47):
Okay, we're back now, things get good this next scene.
Come on, we're back in the council. It's more intense.
This is crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:08:55):
Paul comes back, tell us, lord, we're breaking up. We're
going back, like throughout the food, I don't care.

Speaker 6 (01:08:59):
We're going.

Speaker 3 (01:08:59):
We're going. And she's like totally confused, like what what's
going on. He's like, don't ask questions, pack up, we're going.

Speaker 1 (01:09:05):
But there's a look she gives him at one point.
I think she's totally baffled. But when he's saying and
she's like it's mister Edwards. Heard with that, there's a
look like uh oh uh uh. She started to like
figure out what's happening.

Speaker 6 (01:09:19):
Yeah, yeah, And he does. He's not going to talk
about it.

Speaker 5 (01:09:22):
See that the horses are ready when I get back
here with them, and he leaves. Now, uh, Charles, he
he leads the horse, finds mister Edwards. Hat so Edwards
is on the move. He follows the trail. Laura is
now following paw from a distance movie. There's a lot

(01:09:45):
of a lot of motion going on here. Yeah, Edwards
prepares to cross the river. He stumbles and falls. I
mean you get to see how he's struggling with every
move that he's making. And Charles catches up with him.
You want to high your tracks and he's again there's
more upset. They fight. These are two guys, these dear friends,

(01:10:11):
these close friends, are down, and it is a They
are fighting and.

Speaker 1 (01:10:16):
For someone who is depressed and wants to die and
yet is willing to go into a fist fight to
defend his urge to kill himself. Yeah, oh my god.

Speaker 6 (01:10:28):
That's sort of an interesting take. Yeah, he believe that strongly.

Speaker 1 (01:10:32):
It was that harsh.

Speaker 3 (01:10:33):
Yeah yeah, yeah, I mean if he would have gone
through with it, no, I mean with no.

Speaker 7 (01:10:38):
Questioned by that point.

Speaker 6 (01:10:39):
Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:10:41):
And Laura, Laura sees them fighting, is horrified and she's like,
why are you fighting? And they're like, get out of here,
don't interfere with us. Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:10:52):
He gets up, he takes the gun. I won't stop you,
and I won't help you.

Speaker 1 (01:10:56):
Yes, I'm not going to be part of this. I'm
not going to be part of this.

Speaker 5 (01:11:02):
And now this coming up here, this moment that we're
about to talk about, this was the strongest in terms
of Michael's interactions with.

Speaker 6 (01:11:14):
Melissa, with any woman.

Speaker 3 (01:11:16):
Shocking Laura doesn't my jaw literally hit popped.

Speaker 6 (01:11:23):
Her unless is that sound? But yeah, really.

Speaker 7 (01:11:28):
Because hit the hitter of the Laura.

Speaker 3 (01:11:32):
Because Laura is fighting and saying, why are you fighting?
You can't leave him, we can't leave him, and she's
getting hysterical, and he slaps the cred out of her twice.

Speaker 6 (01:11:41):
It's pretty strong.

Speaker 3 (01:11:42):
And her also her face of shock. I mean, we're
all shocked. I was shocked. I don't know why I
did not remember any of this. When I revisited this,
I blocked out.

Speaker 1 (01:11:56):
It's one shock after another. And for the record, no
slap a hysterical person actually doesn't help calm them down. Now,
But people did. People used just laugh hysterical people all
the time. They thought it was how you.

Speaker 5 (01:12:10):
And so Laura runs, Isaiah's left alone, pause going after her.
They get he gets back to the camp site, he
apologized to her, take the horses and go to the trailhead,
so you're so Laura realizes we're not going to leave.

Speaker 3 (01:12:28):
He's not going to leave Isaiah after all, right.

Speaker 6 (01:12:32):
You know?

Speaker 5 (01:12:32):
And and he answers very honestly. And this is sort
of this is where sort of, this is where the
magic of Little House comes in. You're you know, you're
led to believe that a higher power is going to
step into this.

Speaker 6 (01:12:45):
Yes, and I don't know what I'm going to do.
Go to the railhead and wait, I'll pray for him,
Laura says.

Speaker 5 (01:12:57):
And we we are back at the at the river.
Are you going to die like your Indian friend?

Speaker 3 (01:13:07):
Right? Because Isaiah when he was talking about his sue friends,
he also mentioned that he's dead now because he became
useless and right, right exactly.

Speaker 5 (01:13:17):
I mean all this foreshadowing of of how he's feeling.
You know, what we don't know is I mean, is
he making up that story? I think we have to
trust the fact that he's telling that that's a truth.

Speaker 3 (01:13:27):
Yeah, I thought I bought it. I thought he was
telling the truth.

Speaker 1 (01:13:29):
I think it's that he saw that as an ultimate
good act of manliness. A man cannot be useless and
not take care of his wife and children. If a
man cannot, then a man goes out into the woods
like an animal and just like lays down by the
river and checks out, you don't hang around being a
burden to people. And he flat outs as he can't
be a.

Speaker 5 (01:13:48):
Burden right there, there is there is something yeah, I
mean when you put it that way else, and then
there's something very noble about that.

Speaker 6 (01:13:56):
It's that's being shooting for.

Speaker 1 (01:13:59):
He's going for, Yeah, it's all really screwed up, and
he can't comprehend that his wife and child will actually
be devastated and would prefer to be it walking or no,
he doesn't know that, but so he's going, well, what
I can't do this to them. I gotta go. I
gotta go dump myself in the woods.

Speaker 6 (01:14:15):
Yeah. No. Isaiah talks to Charles about the invention of the.

Speaker 3 (01:14:20):
Electric Yes that because insane. I mean this conversation had
me gagged. Yes, yes, he's he said, says, there's this
new invention called the electric chair, and it's they say
it's more humane than hanging.

Speaker 5 (01:14:38):
I don't know how we got from despair to capital punishment.

Speaker 3 (01:14:42):
Because he was he was saying how people who don't
want to do get a humane death, and people who
do want to die are denied the accessibility to do
it themselves.

Speaker 7 (01:14:56):
How many New York they got an electric chair? And
I was like, where is this going?

Speaker 5 (01:15:00):
Were we talking about Doctor Kavorkian in some way.

Speaker 1 (01:15:03):
With this is too asking?

Speaker 6 (01:15:05):
Was this too early for doctor Kavorkian.

Speaker 3 (01:15:07):
Or was this nineteen eighty this episode he's making, he's
talking about euthanasia.

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
He's talking about like, now they have modern equipment where
if you wanted to He's like going, well, they've got
the electric hits. People don't want it to Why don't
they have anything or be able who wanted He's he's
advocating for euthanasia literally on Little House on the Prairie
at eight o'clock during the Family Hour.

Speaker 3 (01:15:30):
This conversation was first of all, historically fascinating. Also, I
mean really I was like, oh crap, that's I didn't
know that. But also yeah, no, it was. I mean
he's so far gone in his depression and yeah, welllessness, yeah, And.

Speaker 6 (01:15:47):
He says to Charles, if you want to be humane,
leave me that rifle and go and I can't do that.

Speaker 5 (01:15:57):
I'm going to go find some supper and he's taken
the rifles and he's going the great thing.

Speaker 6 (01:16:04):
He's clearly what we understand is that he is committed.

Speaker 5 (01:16:08):
He's not leaving his friends. He's going to try and
work this out some way. And so we cut to
we cut to the edge of the river. We see
the I think we don't see the buck yet. We
see Yeah, we see Charles on a rock and he's contemplative.

Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
Now this moment, he's on that rock and he's looking
up and he starts praying and going, God, what do
I do to tell me? Is it not?

Speaker 7 (01:16:38):
When Laura in Donal Lord is My.

Speaker 1 (01:16:40):
Shepherd, Donathan's on that where Jonathan says, go talk to God,
child and Laura sits on that rock and looks at
the same camera angle and he's sitting on the rock
and they're in Sonora, and I went, it's a flashback.
It's a flashback to the Lord is My Shepherd. He's
talking to God on the mountain. He's doing also.

Speaker 3 (01:17:01):
This next moment. He is incredibly spiritual, but it's incredibly
woo woo. I mean, well, let's let's explain what happens
and then we'll discuss. So what happens is he sees
the he's praying.

Speaker 5 (01:17:14):
Right, So yeah, he's so help me, Lord, give him
a reason to live.

Speaker 6 (01:17:20):
Show me the way, please, please. He sees the buck. Yes,
and he.

Speaker 5 (01:17:25):
Looks at the buck. He's guy's gun. You're safe. You're
safe today, my friend. Just get out of here. He
takes out his gun, he shoots in the deer doesn't leave,
or if sign show me the way.

Speaker 3 (01:17:42):
Now. In spiritual circles, animals often represent messages or signs
or or spirits coming in animal for you know, coming
sort of through the animal to send you messages. You know,
that's why you hear stories about you know, like when
my mom died, she said she'd come back in the

(01:18:03):
form of a butterfly, and then all of a sudden
there are butterflies and in the place that the butterflies
would never be, or you know, you you hear this
all the time. A lot of times it's birds or
differ crossing over is different animals represent different things. Also,
like so I found this, my wu w ou side

(01:18:24):
was like, oh, they're going here with this buck slash
god thing, which is really beautiful animals.

Speaker 5 (01:18:34):
Yeah, yeah, incredible and he now what what what?

Speaker 6 (01:18:39):
I don't know? Did he kill the buck?

Speaker 1 (01:18:43):
So so I know when he first shot to scare
him away, and it was like, I guess I'm supposed
to shoot you because he has like blood later so
I guess. I know.

Speaker 3 (01:18:55):
It's so it's very bizarre of like the spiritual moment
and then I and then like, I guess he shot
the deer.

Speaker 1 (01:19:01):
After all, the deer's not moving, I'm supposed to shoot it,
I tell it. It was that.

Speaker 5 (01:19:10):
Oh that's interesting. That's an interesting take, Allison. Well, deers,
not me. I'm the deer is sacrificing itself for the solution, which.

Speaker 1 (01:19:20):
Is even weirder. But like this just it's weird on
top of weird, on top of terrifying. So of first
I thought.

Speaker 3 (01:19:27):
He did not shoot the deer. The deer was literally
the symbol, and he well it had to have been
the so I know, but said he shot the deer.

Speaker 1 (01:19:37):
I know they were going back home for Menison, So yeah, yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:19:40):
Yea, yeah, Well there was no we didn't hear another
gun shot, not that we would.

Speaker 3 (01:19:45):
We do, and that's the one that that was, of
course a gun shot.

Speaker 6 (01:19:52):
We heard like free gunshots boom.

Speaker 3 (01:19:54):
And though I do not know why, I I still
don't understand how he came to this is this deer
is God as a messenger. I guess I have to
kill it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:03):
Now I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:20:04):
I still don't get that. But anyway, but anyway that happened.

Speaker 1 (01:20:12):
Of course, there were multiple guns in this second gun
shot that gets Edward's attention and he does.

Speaker 3 (01:20:21):
He hear paup.

Speaker 1 (01:20:24):
Edwards.

Speaker 3 (01:20:25):
Edwards yes, and Edwards stumbles and falls, but he knows
he has to get to Charles. He gets to Charles,
who is lying with blood on him, saying.

Speaker 6 (01:20:36):
That he shot shot. You got to get me a doctor.

Speaker 7 (01:20:40):
That's fatal back shots.

Speaker 3 (01:20:42):
Like, so he's like, you have to go get Laura.
And Edwards is like, I can't walk that, and he's like,
well you have to. You have to, And so he
does and he makes it, and he overcomes all of
the obstacles. Yes, and then poor Laura, who's like, I

(01:21:04):
mean poor Laura. He's like, your dad, we need to go.
And she's like, has he been shot? Like what happened?
So now she thinks her father is dead.

Speaker 7 (01:21:11):
Or Edwards now her father's been shot.

Speaker 1 (01:21:14):
She's like, this is like the.

Speaker 5 (01:21:15):
Worst and and and I'm shot and he's got a
hobble away.

Speaker 6 (01:21:19):
That's the end of act three.

Speaker 5 (01:21:21):
So four essentially is Edwards staggering through up uphills and
over rocks and through ravines to get to Laura again.

Speaker 1 (01:21:36):
And only Victor French could have done this. That scene
would not have worked. We'd gone why are you watching
this guy, Carl? He made it work. And my question
now is was his son the stuntman during a lot
of that scene?

Speaker 6 (01:21:47):
Yes, his son was the stand in not necessarily.

Speaker 5 (01:21:53):
Okay, but the stand in, yes, exactly, so Young Victor,
young Victor Allen was this was, This was Victor, young
Victor's stepping into that role of stuntman for a rather
stand in for his father. He was the stand in
for Victor on Little House. He was victor stand in

(01:22:16):
on Highway to Heaven.

Speaker 6 (01:22:17):
He was. This was This was Young Victor's.

Speaker 5 (01:22:20):
Role was to be his dad in these situations.

Speaker 6 (01:22:26):
And so okay, we so yeah, all interesting.

Speaker 5 (01:22:30):
That would have been interesting thing for young Victor to
be being part of lining up these shots and the
crawling and the yes. That would have been a really
interesting way to be indoctrinated into that role and.

Speaker 3 (01:22:40):
Stand in because this was his first episode as his stand.

Speaker 1 (01:22:44):
In, yes, and that verifying episode.

Speaker 6 (01:22:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so.

Speaker 3 (01:22:53):
Anyway, so so, so Isaiah makes it to Laura and
he's like, your dad's been shot because doctor, and then magically.

Speaker 5 (01:23:03):
Charles yeah, I mean he Isaiah says, I don't know
what happened, and Charles says, that's right, you don't.

Speaker 10 (01:23:09):
Yeah, and he he says, I'm all right, I got
some bucks blood on me.

Speaker 1 (01:23:19):
So he's like, made you not kill yourself? It's no
insane moment.

Speaker 3 (01:23:25):
Mile You're on Cannid camera. Yeah, Verry style, you are
still alive, fools you.

Speaker 5 (01:23:31):
It's like, what, yeah, yeah, don't sound so disappointed. I'm
supposed to be your friend, remember, I mean, it's like
because because I think, Yeah, Isaiah is shocked. Doune can't
quite believe it, doesn't know what to think about this.
I mean, I thought you were dying. Isaiah says, I

(01:23:52):
almost killed myself to save you well, and then Charles response,
in classic Mike kind of humor, this is the kind
of exactly the kind of line that Michael always wrote,
I thought you were I thought you were killing your
I thought killing yourself was your idea in the first place.
Isaiah is thinking about it, and uh, and then Charles

(01:24:16):
know how.

Speaker 6 (01:24:19):
Yeah, I had a hard time keeping up with you.

Speaker 5 (01:24:21):
You move pretty good when you're thinking of something other
than yourself, other than something besides yourself, which I.

Speaker 1 (01:24:27):
Think is good when you're thinking of someone. This is
the moral of the episode here, it is this is
what You're pretty good when you're thinking of someone beside yourself.
And this is where it turns into the plot of
It's a Wonderful Life, because what happened in its Wonderful Life.
Jimmy Stewart goes to kill himself because all is lost
and they have no money.

Speaker 6 (01:24:43):
It's all falling from this wife's not worth it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:45):
When the Angel is trying to stop him, and what
is the angel do? He jumps in the water and
then Jimmy Stewart is totally su Oh my god, I
got to say the drowning guy. And when they later
are even talking, he says, where would I jumped in
to save you? I jumped in to save you. No,
I jumped in. You jump in and save me, dummy. Yes,
it's the angel trick and It's a Wonderful Life where

(01:25:07):
Charles fakes out that he's dying and he is forced
to save him thereby saving his life Boom because told
him so, and the deer told him to and now.

Speaker 8 (01:25:21):
Told him to do it, and now they eat him.

Speaker 6 (01:25:25):
Well it's so interestingly so uh well, Laura, as soon
as your Paul rests up, will go home. Isaiah has
figured it out. I got a taste for venison. So
he wants a deer.

Speaker 1 (01:25:43):
That deer's killed the poor and.

Speaker 6 (01:25:47):
There is there are those smiles.

Speaker 3 (01:25:49):
Getting its reward in heaven.

Speaker 6 (01:25:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then we're we're you know, we're
we're on the walk.

Speaker 5 (01:25:57):
Yeah, we're on the walk home, and the right it's
under the frame and he's still singing Old Dan Tucker
the same verse.

Speaker 3 (01:26:03):
It's like the tenth l seventeen hours straight.

Speaker 6 (01:26:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:26:09):
And when his wife and child come running to him, Oh,
I mean, I did we all start to lose it
and cry?

Speaker 3 (01:26:15):
We also, yes, yes, of course, yeah, yeah, that's the
scene that we say, what do they say?

Speaker 7 (01:26:23):
Laura says it's almost a miracle.

Speaker 1 (01:26:26):
Yes, it's a miracle, and he said not almost.

Speaker 5 (01:26:29):
Not almost, not almost, yeah, exactly. So here this is
sort of a there's a reason that we we chose
this episode, everybody, and what we haven't talked about I
think we I think we mentioned it, but Victor's son,

(01:26:50):
Victor Allen French, and he wasn't Victor French junior. He
didn't want to be. Victor didn't want his son to
be a junior. He's Victor Alan French, Victor young.

Speaker 6 (01:27:01):
Victor passed away on well, yeah, he passed away on
April sixth of this year. You know.

Speaker 5 (01:27:10):
Now, Mister Edwards returned and made powerful contributions to the
Little House throughout the rest of its run, Beginning in
that season eight episode our season six episode episode eight
of season six, Victor directed eighteen episodes of Little House.
He appeared amazingly, he only appeared in fifty eight episodes.

(01:27:35):
His contribution, Yeah, I mean his contribution to Little House
is much bigger than that. It's much bigger than the
fifty eight episodes. I mean, his presence is what people
got from him was enormous. So yeah, Victor died on
June fifteenth, nineteen eighty nine. Victor Allen French died on
April sixthteen, twenty twenty six.

Speaker 3 (01:28:00):
So young too.

Speaker 6 (01:28:01):
And yeah, yeah, Victor died at fifty four.

Speaker 3 (01:28:06):
I mean that's insane to me. I mean, Victor, how
young both Michael and Victor were when they died. That
is just it's cruel.

Speaker 1 (01:28:14):
When I think about knowing these people as a child
and I'm now older than either of them got to be,
it breaks my brain. I just can't even Yes. Yeah,
and how old.

Speaker 3 (01:28:25):
Was Victor Allen? Sixty five?

Speaker 1 (01:28:27):
I think?

Speaker 6 (01:28:28):
Is that right? So he was old, he was older.

Speaker 5 (01:28:30):
He was older than his father. He lived longer than
his father did. I mean, look his father, his father,
like Michael, lived very very hard. I mean there's you know,
no no doubt about that. There was no hiding for that.
You could see it in his face, you could see
it in his eyes, how hard he lived.

Speaker 6 (01:28:50):
Young Victor.

Speaker 5 (01:28:52):
Was a in I mean, I think young Victor had
his challenges too, but he led with a very gentle spirit.

Speaker 1 (01:29:01):
Was so lovely. Yeah, yeah, everything like Peddy Bear.

Speaker 3 (01:29:07):
Yes, open, open, open, Yes.

Speaker 6 (01:29:10):
So we did see me.

Speaker 7 (01:29:12):
He was signing sweet potatoes.

Speaker 1 (01:29:14):
He had a big bag of sweet potatoes, like mister
Edwards in the pilotrapping sweet potatoes for Christmas.

Speaker 3 (01:29:20):
That such a dear, dear man. Everything with him, he
was just so lovely.

Speaker 5 (01:29:26):
So when we when we you know, we talked to
Victor Alan and his sister Tracy during season one and
we asked them about being together on the Little House set.
And here's a clip from episode forty three of the podcast,
which we called Victor French's Children.

Speaker 6 (01:29:47):
Remember I came in in season six, and when your
father returned in season six, you came with him. Had
you ever been his stand in before that experience? So
talk about that.

Speaker 11 (01:30:00):
Well, he's always been saying no, not yet. Well before
then he still had a beard. I didn't have one.

Speaker 1 (01:30:09):
That's the job into it as soon.

Speaker 11 (01:30:13):
As I was able to. I mean, he talked about
it when we drove back from New Mexico after he
filmed some movie out there, and we came driving back
and he was like, as soon as you grow a beard,
you're going to be my driver and my stand up. Yes.
And as soon as I got the beard, he went, you, remember,
I got a job for you.

Speaker 6 (01:30:33):
What was that like for you? Stepping in? I mean,
so now you're really You've obviously been watching your father
work for years, but now you're really. Now you're dressed
as him and you're watching him do what he does.

Speaker 11 (01:30:47):
So the acting bug still wasn't a horrible stage fright.
I can't, I can't, Yeah, I just I get up
in my brain overloads with your your family. I have
no trouble with family. Yeah, but this is this is wonderful.
But I was on that set, and I'm going onto
sets with him all the time, So to me, it

(01:31:09):
was nothing to go there and just spend time being there.

Speaker 6 (01:31:12):
Sure, sure, well. And it was a very comfortable set
to be on too, the most uncomfortable.

Speaker 11 (01:31:17):
I remember extras coming in and going, We're on the
Little Michael's production. Everything's going to be great.

Speaker 7 (01:31:26):
Everyone knew everyone.

Speaker 12 (01:31:28):
There was one moment I just want to share this
real quick that I had come to visit Dad on
the set when Victor was dressed up and he's my brother,
you know, I don't see he's looking like my dad,
and they were wearing the sitting next to each other,
wearing the same costume. I stopped because I was outliving
my life and he's, you know, living his life, and yeah,

(01:31:48):
I'll go buy and visit Victor and Dad on the set.
And I stopped in my track because I didn't see
you with a beard. I've never seen you with a beard.

Speaker 3 (01:31:55):
Wo wow.

Speaker 11 (01:31:56):
I love it because when I'm sitting at one of
the events and I've dressed up like him, I get
that same thing from people who didn't expect course, of course,
but I hugged much better that.

Speaker 6 (01:32:14):
Yeah, no, it was.

Speaker 5 (01:32:15):
Young Victor was a very sweet man, no, no, no question.
And that's a very such an interesting family dynamic there,
ye two. I mean, and fans have loved seeing young Victor.
He you know, when he came with his hats and
his suspenders and his flannel shirts and all that. I mean,

(01:32:38):
people loved seeing Young Victor.

Speaker 3 (01:32:42):
He brought such I mean, he really filled that empty
void in the in the prairie community. His presence did.

Speaker 7 (01:32:52):
The song the song yes, like he looks just like
him exactly.

Speaker 6 (01:33:03):
Yeah. Yeah, So I'm glad we could.

Speaker 5 (01:33:06):
I'm glad we could honor both Victor's memories with this
particular episode. And I think it is fascinating that this,
this episode, which is so powerful for his father, was
in fact young Victor's first episode standing in for his
dad on Little House. Quite a dose of experience that

(01:33:29):
he got, and he, you know, young Victor got to
witness his father playing the things he'd watched him play
for most of his you know, for most of Young
Victor's youth, until the time the Little House came into
their life. And that was of all the work that
Victor did, the work that he did on Little House,

(01:33:51):
I think was you know, the family says that this
was the greatest joy that he had, was playing in
this spaces.

Speaker 3 (01:34:00):
Yeah, And if you want to hear that entire episode,
just to go back, I think it's episode forty three.

Speaker 6 (01:34:05):
It is a season one episode forty three called.

Speaker 3 (01:34:07):
Victor French's Children Remember, And it's with Victor and his
sister Tracy. And it's a wonderful, wonderful episode if you
want to do a deep dive and go back and
revisit it or visit it for the first time. Yeah,
but oh, I'm so glad we did that. Okay, wow, Yeah,
that's our show. That's our show for today, guys. Well, also,
just just if you are having suicidal ideations or thoughts,

(01:34:35):
or you know someone who might be struggling, there is
a hotline you can call anytime, just down nine eight eight,
and that's the Suicide Prevention Hotline. And I know I've
used it on behalf of other people that I was
concerned about, and they're always present, and they're always incredibly helpful,
and it's just an amazing resource. Nine eight eight. Everyone

(01:34:55):
should know that number. It's as useful as nine to
one to one, so I think it On that note,
we hope everyone is well and doing great, and we
thank you for coming here today and experiencing this with us.
And we know it was a heavy one, so I
had to put a little bit of humor in there
to lighten our spirits a little bit. If you want

(01:35:19):
to know more about us or find out what we're doing,
join us on our socials, Little House fifty podcast or
website let us fifty podcast dot com. You can like
and subscribe and write us a great review that helps
get the word out and the algorithm going. And we'll
see you next time. You guys. We'll do a Patreon too.
If you're not on Patreon, come and join us because
we'll be talking more. See you next time. Bob, get

(01:35:41):
the wig. Let's Fly Lo. Another episode of the ending
credits music No.

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