Mat’s mantra, “Hard Work Pays Off” (HWPO), guided him to become the most decorated and dominant athlete in the history of CrossFit, which now drives him in business. In his competitive career, he earned five consecutive CrossFit Games Titles as the Fittest Man on Earth (2016 - 2020) and finished on the podium seven consecutive times (2014-2020).
Before finding CrossFit, Fraser had an entire career in Olympic Weightlifting. He was the 2009 Junior National Weightlifting Champion and a Resident Athlete at the Olympic Training Center. Most recently, Mat coached HWPO PRO Athlete Mal O’Brien to a 2nd-place finish at the 2022 CrossFit Games and assisted Jake Marconi in coaching HWPO PRO athlete Jayson Hopper to a 7th-place finish.
Before finding CrossFit, Fraser had an entire career in Olympic Weightlifting. He was the 2009 Junior National Weightlifting Champion and a Resident Athlete at the Olympic Training Center. Most recently, Mat coached HWPO PRO Athlete Mal O’Brien to a 2nd-place finish at the 2022 CrossFit Games and assisted Jake Marconi in coaching HWPO PRO athlete Jayson Hopper to a 7th-place finish.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:10):
Hey, it's Fernando here. Thankyou so much for tuning into the podcast
with Matt Fraser today. Before weget into it, I want to say
a massive thank you to Valites,who are the sponsors of today's podcast.
Vlites have the world's best grips withthe quad Ultra no chalk grips, and
I think one of the best ropesfor double unders and heavy double lenders I've
(00:31):
ever used, the jump Rope Earth. If you'd like anything from Valites,
type in l LP ten on theirwebsite for your discount, and as you
get ready for today's podcast, Iwant to encourage us all take one thing
from what Matt speaks about and tryand apply it in twenty twenty four.
Make it your goal to apply thatone thing every single day in twenty twenty
(00:53):
four. One of the things I'vealready started to apply is that I've started
to put notes all across my houseof the person I want to be.
I've got one in my kitchen,one in my living room, one by
the front door, one in mybedroom. Underneath the note, I simply
write, do it and make yourselfproud. So today, have fun as
you listen to Matt Fraser on London'sLeadership Podcast. Hello everyone, and welcome
(01:18):
to London's Leadership Podcast. Today,it's my pleasure to be with Matt Fraser,
the five times CrossFit Games Champion fittestman in the world. I've been
watching Matt from Afar for many yearsand I'm going to I do cross fit,
but I'm nowhere near as good asMatt, obviously, and I've been
doing his program HWPO and it's transformedthe way I train and live my life.
(01:42):
But one of the things that's reallyinspired me about Matt over the years
as I've watched him and heard fromhim and learned from him is his mindset,
his character, his attitude to lifeand training. So it's a huge
privilege that we get to spend sometime together just hearing a little bit about
how he forges a champion's mindset,a few things about nutrition and then and
(02:04):
then failure. But first of all, Matt, thank you so much for
being with us today. Yeah,thank you for having me. I know
you're you're in Hawaii right now,taking a little bit of a break.
You and Sammy, Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're both new new to
the parent world and so we're justtaking full advantage just kind of checked out.
So we're down here for like twomonths, just beach and baby.
(02:28):
Well, let's get right into it, Matt. I was speaking to you
just before we click record, andI was asking you about how you developed
the mindset to do the things thatyou did. And I don't know if
you've got a few tips or stepsthat you might like to share with me
and with our listeners as to howyou developed that mindset. Yeah. So
(02:49):
when you brought it up earlier,I thought we were already recording, but
so I got messed to think onit, uh and kind of elaborate on
it. But you know, Iit's I don't know if it's going to
be encouraging or just scouraging to listeners. The what I felt was my biggest
contributing factor to you know, overcomingadversity or you know, when there's a
fork in the road or like somethinghappens, the wrench get thrown into the
(03:12):
gears and it's like what now,it's I think I was able to handle
those relatively well because I dealt withadversity in the past, you know,
so you know, whether whether itwas dealing with injuries when I was still
a weightlifter. You know, Ibroke my L five in two spots when
I was eighteen or nineteen years old, and because of that situation, I
(03:35):
didn't have a choice. It waseither you know, accept what the doctors
told me and like my weight withthe career is over, or I can
try to come back. And Iknew if I walked away, it's like
I have nothing, you know.So I was like I didn't really have
a choice. And at the timethat was so detrimental. You know,
I was such a low place.You know, I just told you're never
(03:55):
going to work out again. Youknow, you your L five is snapped
in two spots, like all thisstuff. So I didn't have a choice.
I was forced through that. Butthen when I came out the other
side, it was like, ohwow, I overcame that. You know,
it kind of just noballed. Thenyou kind of look at every adversity
(04:16):
a little bit differently, every problema little bit differently, of like,
well, if I overcame that one, I think I can overcome this one.
And then just over the years,you just have that mentality of like
this don't quit mentality is don't stop, like it it builds up over the
years, and then before you knowit, your audience is growing, the
feats that you're striving for a littlebit bigger, you know, the stakes
(04:38):
are a little bit higher. Butit doesn't just go from you know,
you in your gym by yourself oneday to in front of ten thousand people
the next. It it builds upover time. Those experiences get a little
bit bigger each time. And ifyou never overcome that little tiny one and
teach yourself you know, how toovercome it, well, why are you
(05:00):
going to be able to scale thishuge clip of a problem? So I
think, however you want to phraseit. Fortunately, unfortunately I was put
into some of these situations where Ididn't feel like I had a choice and
I was forced to overcome something,and then it just kind of kept building.
You know that confidence builds, youkind of see yourself differently, you
(05:20):
kind of look at what you're capableof differently, and just being relentless due
the adversity changed your way. ThatI'm hearing you say is that that that
adversity shifted the way that you viewedobstacles and it just built in you this
never give up mentality. And oneof the things I was saying to you.
(05:42):
That really impacted me was this thingthat you said, You said,
suffer now and live like a champion. Yeah, And I think that has
a lot to do with the waythat you train and the way you think
about the things that you do.Can you just tell us a little bit
about where that comes from and howthat that is a part of your mindset,
that suffering now and live like achampion. Yeah, So suffer now,
(06:04):
live the rest of your life asa champion. That's a Muhammad al
e quote. And I had Ihad these posters from this company called Iconic
and they make these sick graphics.I had. I've always had them in
my home gyms, and that wasone that I didn't even know as a
Muhammad al e quote, but itwas something that I had said to myself.
(06:26):
You know, it was a littlebit different, but it was the
same message of like basically the wayI was looking at it was one of
the best bang for the buck workoutsthat I think, you know I did
in my career was a concept tworowing workout that was nine rounds minute forty
on, twenty seconds off and atwo minute rest in between, so eighteen
(06:49):
minutes of work with a two minutewas twenty minutes start to finish, and
it was gross. Every time youknow you're falling off the rower, you're
a puddle, and it's just likeit builds up so slowly and then before
you know it, you're just thatmax effort and you're trying to maintain it's
only twenty seconds rest in between round. It's it's a brutal, brutal workout.
(07:10):
And I would always look at thatof like twenty minutes of work and
I get to and this, thisis like the biggest thing that's going to
contribute to me living the rest ofmy life like a champion. Twenty minutes.
And I looked at that, likeif I can do this type of
intensity twenty minutes a day, everyday, like it's going to put me
where I need, where I wantto be. I was like, that's
(07:33):
such a small cost. You know, the pain is extreme, you know
the mental toughness that drop, allthat is so fucking hard, But it's
only twenty minutes as all. Iwas like, dude, twenty minutes for
a lifetime of freedom of twenty minutesfor a lifetime of like achievement, Like
(07:53):
why would you not make that sacrifice. Why would you not make that trade?
And I just looked at that asyou know, that bled into everything.
Hmm. I'm with on h wPO pro. I do your program
and it's it's amazing. It's reallybenefited me so much. We do something
similar as all mondays. I alwayshave to do the rowing pieces, which
I feel sick afterwards. On Saturdays, on the days that I do,
(08:16):
we do these things that I don'tknow what you you devise the most horrible
forty minute emoons which we just had. Those are the best? Oh that
was Those are those are some ofmy favorite because of how they started.
You know, I just like thosestarted with just me in the back room.
(08:41):
So so the gym I trained atChamplain Valley CrossFit, they had two
rooms, like the main affiliate roomand then like a side room that was
basically a whole second affiliate but itwas kind of like open gym. So
that's where all like a lot ofthe competitors hang out and stuff, and
and yeah, I just I wasI had a very unique problem that I
wanted to solve and I couldn't figureout a way, So I just kind
(09:05):
of created one and they slowly evolvedinto forty minute emms, and they were
my favorite. I loved them,you know, I think they're some of
the best workouts, greatest ways totrain volume at such a high intensity.
And the biggest thing for me wasthe like inclusiveness, So like I could
(09:28):
be doing a forty minute EMOM andlike, and my goal is trying to
win the games. Family can bedoing the same forty minute EMM next to
me, like same four movements orscale the movements, whatever it is,
but we're in that camaraderie together,so we're both we have that communal suffering
together, and so I just lovedthem that, like can you can pump
sixteen people through a forty minute EMMso conveniently? So I just loved them
(09:54):
for training. But then also Ilove the reactions that nobody did forty minute
e moms. Nobody. And anytimeI was in a new gym or with
a new like training with somebody newfor the day, I would write up
a forty minute em and they'd beI would little bit joking, No,
absolutely not, like it's gonna begood, you know. And now they're
(10:15):
just a staple, like you seethem everywhere, you see every training program,
Like they become a staple, andit's so cool to be like,
oh shit, okay, I thinkI got something right, you know you
little old me left my own devices. Yeah, I think they're brilliant at
that very thing to to get usin the mindset of suffering now, and
I think it really helps with that. One of the things I wanted to
(10:37):
pick up on what you just saidis it's how do you view like facing
and embracing difficult things? Because whatI read, I don't know if it
was in your book or when avideo I watched that you were saying,
Oh, you weren't good at rowing, so you bought a rower and you
rode five k every single day.What would you say about that that part
(11:01):
of your your mindset, which,like you, I think it's like you
force yourself to do the thing youdon't want to do. Yeah, for
for myself, you know. Soone of the most valuable things I've learned
about myself is how I learned whatis the best way for me to absorb
new information? Because you know,now that I know a lot of this
(11:24):
stuff, you know, it explainsa lot of you know, why I
wasn't a great student in high school. It's like, no, that environment
was terrible for just my preference.So once I was in college and kind
of more a lot more independent,I had the freedom to figure that out.
So I learned it there, andthen you know, a year or
two later, I'm then kind ofinvesting in CrossFit and putting more effort in
(11:46):
there. And so I just translatedover like how like this is how I
learned from a textbook, and thisis my formula, and now I'm just
going to apply it to a rower. And now I'm going to apply it
to pull up. Now applied tothat. And one of the biggest things
is just staying present. I didn'trealize that I was doing this without crying.
(12:11):
I was doing it to just helppass the time, because I would
get bored. You know, ifI'm going to the track and running nine
thousand meters worth of intervals, fuckingboring. And I don't run with music
or headphones, like I don't wantto throw off my cadence or my beat
or like, let you know,music play with my emotions. It's like
no, I want to. Iwant to I want to listen to my
(12:33):
breathing. That's what's going to happenin competition. So that's what I want
to become so familiar with. Iwant to know it like the back of
my hand. Well, that wasjust helping me stay present. I'm not
looking at a running workout as ninethousand meters. I'm looking at the running
workout as hitting every fourth step perfectlywith my exhale. So it's like I'm
I'm only ever looking three seconds inthe future. And kind of that happened
(12:56):
indirectly with the emams too. Ifyou look at like, all right,
you got forty minutes worth of workahead of you, and you're in minute
sixteen, and it's like you're infull pain mode, you're in full pay
mode, and you're like, I'mnot even halfway yet. Well, it's
demoralizing. You're like, man,I'm not even halfway and I already feel
(13:16):
like this this is terrible. Well, if you only look at it as
forty seconds worth of work at atime, where it's like I don't have
thirty six more minutes. I havethis next row. I have fifteen calories,
so and even that row, I'mbreaking that up of like, all
right, the first three calories,I'm doing a nice hard sprint start and
I'm gonna let my pace fall andnow I'm going to finish strong. So
even though I'm only looking at themin ten fifteen twenty second increments. So
(13:39):
just staying present and focusing on thetask at hand. As soon as you
think about I still have so muchmore to do. Yeah, so like
that doesn't change the story. Focuson what you're doing right now. And
then the other thing too, wasyou know I learned best by just jumping
in. I learned best from it, like going from experience to you know,
(14:03):
being taught experience taught, and thenI just feel that dot's getting connected
as I'm going. But yeah,you know, with something like that as
well, it's I dove in onthe rower, I'm playing with it.
I'm trying to figure out what worked, what doesn't work? You know,
do I like my feet high low, damp or high low? What paces?
What settings? Like? You getto know that rower so fucking well
(14:26):
that as soon as you get ontoit in the middle of a workout,
it's like you know the within thefirst poll, all right, I know
exactly what pace I'm going to beholding because I know how it feels,
because I spent so much time onthe studying it that I just kind of
know how it works and how I'mgoing to react to it. So it's,
you know, just dive in,jump in with both feet, become
obsessed with it, try to figureout every little nook and cranny trick on
(14:50):
it. Yeah, it's just kindof obsessing over it, and then just
that's all you do. You know. Yeah, I feel like, yeah,
that's so good obsessing with it beingpresent. I know. Sometimes I
think I love what you said aboutlike being able to hear your breathing in
(15:13):
the middle of the workout and notallowing yourself to be distracted and just diving
straight in to do the hard thing. Sometimes the thing that we don't want
to do. Often, like Ifind in my own training or when I'm
training with friends, it's like whenthere's something that I know it's not going
to be good for me, forexample, Burbie box jumpovers. If I
(15:35):
know that's not going to be goodfor me, somewhere in the back of
my head, I've already told myselfI'm not going to be good at that,
or oh, this workout is justnot good for me. And I
think so many of us sometimes allowourselves to believe that to give ourselves an
excuse to just do badly. It'slike, so when I don't do well,
well, I've given myself the excusethat I'm not good at that or
(15:58):
that workout. Get you've given yourselfpermission. Yeah, you've given You've given
yourself permission of like an excuse permissionhowever you want to phrase it. Yeah,
and and yeah, you know,and this is one thing like with
uh, you know, my timeworking with Ben Bergron. He has some
like great mental stuff and like eyelines from him that stayed with me through
(16:21):
through my whole career. And andit was just like never wait for your
workout, like never wait for yourhome run hit. As soon as you
look at a workout and go,oh, you know, this one is
you know, damage control for me, it's like, well, no,
no, that's not right. It'snot it's not damage control. It's not
(16:44):
that you're you're still trying to getas many points as possible. Don't phrase
it as hey, I'm going totry to lose as few points as possible,
because the two points you get fromnineteenth place to eighteenth place are the
same of saying that I was thetwo points you know from seventh to sixth
you know or whatever the point spreadis, but those points are just as
(17:06):
valuable. Yeah, and kind ofwhat you're talking about too, of whether
it's a movement or how you're feelingcoming into a workout or a day of
training. You know, I hadit all the time where training's not in
exact science, you're going to misssome days and overtrain the day prior,
and you come in and you're justlike, man, I feel like shit
today. Yeah, I hit aton of those. And then you know,
(17:30):
you come up to a workout that'syou know, ring muscle ups and
clean and jerks at one eighty fivewhere it's like, yes, okay,
you know, set to ten clean, DRIK twenty five. If I'm feeling
good, yeah, I'm going tobe ripping some touch and ghosts. But
it's like I remember one day specificallycoming in ring muscle ups and it was
like sets the ten back and forthfor someone third number of rounds, and
(17:52):
I just went like, no,I feel like dog shit today. It's
not happening. And instead of leavingit there and just giving myself permission to
like, this workout is going tobe slow, I set a different goal
for myself, like, Okay,I'm not I'm not hitting the set sizes
that I think I should or thatI would be capable of. But I'm
going to put a stamp of successon this workout if I do fast singles
(18:17):
on the clean and jerks all theway through and I never step away from
the bar. So I'm then settinggoals like all right, all the muscle
ups, no more than two setsand no more than a you know,
two seconds in between clean and jerks. So then I still have a reason
to fight in the workout, eventhough I'm like, man, if I
hit this workout for two days,I would shave off three minutes. Well
yeah, okay, so you're notgetting better at that aspect of the workout,
(18:40):
but you're getting better at this aspectof So I look at it like,
all right, when Sunday rolls aroundat the games and everyone's dog tired
and then they still run out inthe first round of the workout like they're
fresh, I'm going to know alittle bit better. I'm going to have
a little bit more experience. I'mgoing to know how to execute perfectly even
though I'm tired. So you know, they all play a role, and
(19:03):
it's just kind of stepping back enoughto look at the bigger picture. Really
good man, Thank you so much. Just before I asked you a little
bit about failure and what failure meansto you. Is there anything else you'd
like to just talk about how todevelop the mindset of a champion life.
Is there anything any anything that youthink you say to yourself or you do
(19:25):
that that that that that has setyou upart over the years, or any
any thing that I can just andyou know, it's like, never feel
too silly. You know, whatworks for you works for you. So
like one of the easiest examples isI can't stay up until four am watching
(19:51):
Netflix or just binge watching whatever.You know, I can be that guy
that I hit the couch at eightpm intending to only watch an hour and
then just like I don't have anythingtomorrow, Like I get to chill,
I don't get to think, Idon't have to think anything. I just
relaxed. Well that has a snowballeffect the next day. Now I'm fucking
grouchy. I'm sure I'm like allthese things. And so it's like I
(20:15):
knew how important it was for abedtime, and you know, when I'm
competing I'm thirty years old, andI'm like, I'm going to give myself
a bedtime and I'm struggling to stickto it. And it was like setting
up notes. You know. Ihad a sticky note next to the TV,
so from anywhere else in the housethey couldn't see it. But from
where I sat on the couch towatch TV at night, I could see
(20:36):
the note and it I forget whatit says specifically, but it was like
turn the TV off at ten,make yourself proud, and it was just
like I knew in the moment.It's so easy, especially if you have
like eight minutes of an episode leftand it's ten pm. You're like,
well, I'm not going to notfinish the episode. And then you finished
the episode, you're like, well, I already broke bedtime curfew, so
(20:56):
what's one more episode? You know, I got left on a cliffhanger.
It's so easy to justify that.And it was one of those things that
like, I felt so silly havingto put a note talking to myself to
remind me like, hey man,you know what you need. You know
how you're going to feel if youstay up late, and you know,
so every once in a while,Like if people walked in the house,
(21:18):
they would see the note and they'dbe like, two really, I'm like,
yep, it helps, Like that'swhat that's what I need. So
it's like whatever your barrier of entryor like whatever that thing that barrier holding
you back from that goal. Figureout what worked for you, and it
doesn't have to work for anyone else. It works for you. That's why
(21:40):
you're doing it. So you know, I had I had so many countless
things like that through my career,where like I would have competitors a training
partner seeing me doing it, They'relike, do you fucking choking and I'm
like, nope, it works.It works for me, Like you know,
So find what works for you andstick to it. I think that's
really good. I think it's areally helpful and I like what you wrote
(22:03):
next to it. Just make yourselfproud, just those little because sometimes so
many of us know the things thatwe should be doing. I know I
should be stretching, I know Ishould be I know I should be going
to bed at this time. Iknow I should be preparing the next day.
I know I should be doing thosethings, But I don't do the
things I need to do. Yeah, but those little things just help going
what we're going to say, andit's and it's those little things that add
(22:25):
up, especially on the sleep side, that's not really a little thing,
but you know, it's so easyto justify, like when you're in that
mood of relax and you have asnack, you're chilling, and then it's
so easy to get derailed. Andso it's just like, Nope, it's
not just it's not just in themoments when it's hard to stay on track.
(22:45):
It's also in those moments where it'sso easy to just those moments that
are dangerous because it's that light veerfrom your goal. Just accelerate. Yeah,
all right, Well I was gonnaI wanted to ask you one more
thing on failure. I think thosetips on mindset have been so helpful.
What would you say? What whatdoes failure mean to you? And why
(23:10):
I asked that is because I thinkso many of us, so many include
myself, like we're just afraid offailing, but so much so that we
don't even try, Like we don'ttry to be our best because we're too
afraid that we won't make it orwe won't we won't be as good as
you or we won't we won't begood, So we're afraid of failure.
So I wanted to ask you whatwhat is failure mean to you? And
(23:32):
how and what has been your biggestfailure? And how is how has that
shaped you to become who you aretoday? Failure to me is just quitting,
huh, you know, like,like the thought of being scared of
failing is so foolish because your resultsfrom not even trying are worse than if
(23:55):
you tried and failed, Like you'remore of a failure for not even trying,
and then you would be if youtried and failed, because at least
if you tried and failed, nowyou have more life experience. Now you
possibly have a new relationship, youhave you know something, some new experience
that you can apply forward. Andalso too, like you need to learn
(24:15):
how to like. For me,it was learning how to like praise my
failures. It's only a failure ifit stays a failure forever, like if
I allow it to stay a failure, you know, like twenty fifteen,
it's so easy in the moment,and I did interviews about it and everything
of like I hate that fucking metal. That metal represents cut corners, it
(24:37):
represents staying up late, it representsa bad diet, it represents a lack
of judgment on the competition floor,like all of these things. That's what
it means to me. And sofor years I hated that metal, you
know, years into retirement. NowI look back. That's my favorite metal.
That's the one that shaped everything.That's if if I had one in
(25:00):
twenty fifteen, it would have Allit would have done is just told me
that your diet is good enough,your sleep is good enough, your training
is good enough, keep doing whatyou're doing. And yeah, I'm sure
I would have traded blows for thetop spot a couple of times, but
there's no fucking chance I would havemade the life overhauling decisions that I did
make. And then you know,immediately my first year back, I win
(25:25):
by the largest margin of victory ever, and I'm like, oh, that
worked okay. But if it wasn'tfor that failure, I would have never
known I had to change those things. And it's always knowing too, Like,
yeah, in the moment, afailure is gonna seem big, but
it's just it's just reminding yourself,like I don't have to stay here.
(25:48):
You can get up, you cankeep going, And like, if you're
scared of failure, it's like,I think the best way to get over
that fear of failure is by failing, kind of proving to yourself, whether
you intend to or not, thatyou're not made a glass, that you're
not fragile. It's like, youknow, in twenty fifteen, Don't get
(26:08):
me wrong, I was a shellof myself for months after I lost in
twenty fifteen, Like I was,I was depressed, ID like, didn't
want to go to the gym.I was, I was questioning everything,
and then just I felt like Ididn't have a choice for anything else,
Like, well, if I leave, then I'm then I'm leaving as a
(26:30):
failure, you know. But soyou know, just coming back in.
And then after that year, thosebad emotions were there until that year,
and I proved to myself like,oh, I'm not made a glass,
you know, Like, Okay,last year was a summation of actions and
decisions, but it's not who Iam. And so you know, whether
(26:53):
you get the results or not,if you're confident in who you are,
it's like, okay, we'll goback to the drawing board, try a
little bit harder, do something alittle bit differently. But yeah, failure
is only a failure to quit.M M. Failure is only a failure.
If you quit, you just haveto stand back up and keep on
going. And I feel like foryou, you're going yeah, you know
(27:15):
I I like, yeah, Foryears I looked at my twenty fifteen season
as a failure of you know,I did XYZ and these were my results
and the they weren't what I wanted. But then looking back now I'm like,
that was the best study guide,like I could have ever asked for,
(27:36):
of like, hey, you trainedlike this and these are your results,
you know. Like so I hadthat experience and like I went into
the twenty sixteen season being like,all right, what did I do wrong
last season? Why did I notget the results I wanted? And then
once you analyze that, then it'slike, Okay, you know, I
(27:56):
found for myself, as long asI'm giving a honest, my best,
honest effort, it really doesn't matterwhat the results are. You know,
I'm pretty psyched. I'm like,nope, that's just where the chips fell.
If I'm not happy with the results, I'll go back to the drawing
board. You know, look atmy past experience. What did I do
well? What did I do poorly? How can I get it better?
And it's just those little tiny babysteps and before you know what, they
(28:19):
add up into like a whole newlife routine. Hmm. Yeah, I
think so many of us just wantto be like we want to be.
We want to be the very besttoday without having like gone through the the
process of forging our character and ourhearts and our minds to get there.
And yeah, as you say thatfor me and such, and I guess
(28:41):
for you as I hear this wewere speaking briefly, I feel like and
reading your book, if anyone hasn'tread Matt's book, would be so good
to just hear more about your story. But I feel like so much of
what you're saying now to take youthe games was actually forged when you were
weightlifting, when you overcame the injury, when you struggled with the things that
you struggled with when you became incollege, when you came over that,
(29:03):
when you all those little things wereforging your your heart and your mindset to
just to stand back up, tojust not quit and and I think in
my experience and sometimes like the veryfact, like if we fell one time,
it's like, oh, that meansI just I'm not meant to do
it. But I just don't thinkthat's true. I just think if for
people listening, just like if you'veif you've, if you've gone through something
(29:26):
difficult and it feels like a failure, don't let it be a failure,
like Matt, don't quit. Juststand up and try again. Reassess in
a small way. Yeah, Ithink in a small way. I was
just going to say, oh,wait, no for it. Well no,
I was just going to say ina small way as I was reading
your book and everything. Last yearI did this small competition here in the
(29:48):
UK. It's called the European CrossFitChampionship. Last year I came thirtieth and
I went in and then I justthought, Okay, next year, I'm
gonna I'm gonna, I'm going toit's going to be completely different. I
thought I was fit going in.So the two weeks beforehand, I had
to travel, I had to dothings, and I thought I could roll
in and it'll be all right.And that was a horrible experience. And
(30:11):
I said I never want to feelthis way again. I came out of
that, I jumped on h wPO Pro and and I went this year
just thinking, I just want todo better than last year. Just I
knew I was better than what Idid. I want to do better.
That was a complete failure, butI want to do better. And as
I went in and and and everyevent, I just thought, I want
(30:33):
to do better than what I didin training. I want to do better
than what I did in training.And how how it ended up happening.
I ended up winning this this October, which was which was every event,
and I was I was saying whatyou say that I was saying, suffer
now, suffer now, suffer now. But but but the key piece is
right is the now part. It'syou're staying present in the moment that you're
(30:56):
in. And it's like you seeit so often of these athletes are show
up and you know they're stressing outabout event six on Sunday because they know
it's like, oh, I'm goingto place really low and it's like,
dude, it's Friday, Like whatare you stressing about Sunday? More like,
you got to worry about this workoutand it's just taking each each workout,
one workout of time, each rep, one rep at a time,
(31:18):
and just always focusing on like howcan I make this rep the best and
not worrying about like, man,when I get to that fourth station,
that shoulder overhead's gonna fuck me up. And it's like, nope, don't.
You got to stay present, worryabout what you're doing right now.
So, so what does failure meanto you? And then you said failure
would be quitting, Well, wouldit be all right? Maybe it is
(31:41):
the twenty fifteenth season, or maybeit was your injury, But what what
has been your biggest failure? Andhow do you think that failure shaped you
to become who you are today?If it's wrong? Man, yeah,
no totally. I mean it's atough one. So you know, there's
there's the answer of like like Idon't be any like regrets or failures,
(32:07):
Like if I could go back,I wouldn't really change anything because it put
me where I am today. Butyou know, obviously looking back, it's
like, man, I wish,you know, I wish going back to
my weight lifting career, I hadthe knowledge that I have now of how
to train or the confidence to moveup a weight class and take a step
(32:28):
backwards to take you know, foursteps forward. But man, in terms
of failures, not like not likewhen you quit. I mean it's like,
what what was this moment or aseason that that that at that time
it felt like, oh, Idon't know what I'm going to do,
But but it actually built you upand I made you better. Oh yeah.
(32:51):
Twenty fifteen is probably the easiest example, you know, mentally, physically,
emotionally, everything, but so oneof the most powerful things that came
out of the twenty fifteen season.And I remember it just like I was
demoralized. I was wrecked because Iwas like, I got the same results
as I did last year, butI feel completely different about them. Like
(33:12):
I love that medal from last year, I hate the metal from this year.
What's the difference? Like why Idon't get it? And just sat
down with a pen and paper,sat down and just started writing. You
know, I always call it beinga two year old to yourself. You
know, when you're like, man, I'm unhappy with this year's results.
Why because I didn't win, Whybecause I cut corners? Why because I
(33:37):
was always going for instant gratifications thata long term picture. Why oh,
because you know, and just keepdoing that until you get down to the
fucking rock bottom. And for myself, you know, like the answers are
usually pretty simple once you get downthat low. And and I my conclusion
(33:57):
from the twenty fifteen season and whyI didn't feel great about it was because
the effort that I put in,I knew. The reason I was so
disappointed about it was because I knewI was capable of more. And it
was my cut corners that you know, probably were the deciding factor, my
laziness, and it was never thebig decisions. It was never like you
(34:20):
know, I never skipped a weekof training. I never skipped a day
of training. You know, Ihit prs that season that I still have
never touched. Like, my trainingwas good. I was getting eight hours
of sleep every night. I waseating plenty of calories. But it's like
my sleeping eight hours a night wasfrom two am until ten am. You
know, I was staying up late. You know, it was just I
(34:42):
was doing everything wrong. So yeah, you know, I just sat down
with a notebook a couple hours,no phone, TV, music, nothing,
just me in a room, penand paper, and I got down
to a conclusion that I just wasn'tproud of the effort that I put in
that the twenty fourteen season, likeI did every I I did the best
(35:05):
I could with the knowledge I had, and I got the results I got
and I was psyched about it.And then twenty fifteen, I just I
made bad decisions and I knew theywere bad decisions when I made them.
I just thought I could outtrain abad diet. I thought I could outtrain
to sleep schedule all that. So, yeah, I think that would probably
be the biggest one of just andhow I overcame it was really realizing what
(35:28):
is my motivation? What is thecarrot at the end of my stick?
Why am I doing this? Andif I don't have a really true reason
that you know it's for me andnot for you know, the people around
me and anything like that, thenit the results are secondary. As long
as I put in the effort,I do everything in my power to put
(35:49):
myself where I want to be,then that that's all I can do.
After that it's out of my control. Well, brilliant, Matt, thank
you so much for your time today. I've learned so much much. I've
taken loads of notes, and I'mso grateful for for you making time while
you're in Hawaii with with Sammy andyour baby to come and speak to me.
Thank you so much for today,Thanks for having me man. Congrats
(36:12):
on the competition. Keep working hard, and thank you for the Thank you
for h w p O. I'mreally grateful for it. I've got all
my friends on it as well.Steve Yeah, oh yeah, he's crushing.
Oh I love that guy. Allright, we'll see you, Matt.
What is there any else, anythingelse you'd like to say to everyone
listening? Just one one last thingbefore we say goodbye. Hard work pays
(36:36):
off. Doesn't matter what what venueyou're in, it's whatever your goals are.
Hard work pays off. So good. Thank you so much everyone for
listening. Hard work pays off.
Hey, it's Fernando here. Thankyou so much for tuning into the podcast
with Matt Fraser today. Before weget into it, I want to say
a massive thank you to Valites,who are the sponsors of today's podcast.
Vlites have the world's best grips withthe quad Ultra no chalk grips, and
I think one of the best ropesfor double unders and heavy double lenders I've
(00:31):
ever used, the jump Rope Earth. If you'd like anything from Valites,
type in l LP ten on theirwebsite for your discount, and as you
get ready for today's podcast, Iwant to encourage us all take one thing
from what Matt speaks about and tryand apply it in twenty twenty four.
Make it your goal to apply thatone thing every single day in twenty twenty
(00:53):
four. One of the things I'vealready started to apply is that I've started
to put notes all across my houseof the person I want to be.
I've got one in my kitchen,one in my living room, one by
the front door, one in mybedroom. Underneath the note, I simply
write, do it and make yourselfproud. So today, have fun as
you listen to Matt Fraser on London'sLeadership Podcast. Hello everyone, and welcome
(01:18):
to London's Leadership Podcast. Today,it's my pleasure to be with Matt Fraser,
the five times CrossFit Games Champion fittestman in the world. I've been
watching Matt from Afar for many yearsand I'm going to I do cross fit,
but I'm nowhere near as good asMatt, obviously, and I've been
doing his program HWPO and it's transformedthe way I train and live my life.
(01:42):
But one of the things that's reallyinspired me about Matt over the years
as I've watched him and heard fromhim and learned from him is his mindset,
his character, his attitude to lifeand training. So it's a huge
privilege that we get to spend sometime together just hearing a little bit about
how he forges a champion's mindset,a few things about nutrition and then and
(02:04):
then failure. But first of all, Matt, thank you so much for
being with us today. Yeah,thank you for having me. I know
you're you're in Hawaii right now,taking a little bit of a break.
You and Sammy, Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're both new new to
the parent world and so we're justtaking full advantage just kind of checked out.
So we're down here for like twomonths, just beach and baby.
(02:28):
Well, let's get right into it, Matt. I was speaking to you
just before we click record, andI was asking you about how you developed
the mindset to do the things thatyou did. And I don't know if
you've got a few tips or stepsthat you might like to share with me
and with our listeners as to howyou developed that mindset. Yeah. So
(02:49):
when you brought it up earlier,I thought we were already recording, but
so I got messed to think onit, uh and kind of elaborate on
it. But you know, Iit's I don't know if it's going to
be encouraging or just scouraging to listeners. The what I felt was my biggest
contributing factor to you know, overcomingadversity or you know, when there's a
fork in the road or like somethinghappens, the wrench get thrown into the
(03:12):
gears and it's like what now,it's I think I was able to handle
those relatively well because I dealt withadversity in the past, you know,
so you know, whether whether itwas dealing with injuries when I was still
a weightlifter. You know, Ibroke my L five in two spots when
I was eighteen or nineteen years old, and because of that situation, I
(03:35):
didn't have a choice. It waseither you know, accept what the doctors
told me and like my weight withthe career is over, or I can
try to come back. And Iknew if I walked away, it's like
I have nothing, you know.So I was like I didn't really have
a choice. And at the timethat was so detrimental. You know,
I was such a low place.You know, I just told you're never
(03:55):
going to work out again. Youknow, you your L five is snapped
in two spots, like all thisstuff. So I didn't have a choice.
I was forced through that. Butthen when I came out the other
side, it was like, ohwow, I overcame that. You know,
it kind of just noballed. Thenyou kind of look at every adversity
(04:16):
a little bit differently, every problema little bit differently, of like,
well, if I overcame that one, I think I can overcome this one.
And then just over the years,you just have that mentality of like
this don't quit mentality is don't stop, like it it builds up over the
years, and then before you knowit, your audience is growing, the
feats that you're striving for a littlebit bigger, you know, the stakes
(04:38):
are a little bit higher. Butit doesn't just go from you know,
you in your gym by yourself oneday to in front of ten thousand people
the next. It it builds upover time. Those experiences get a little
bit bigger each time. And ifyou never overcome that little tiny one and
teach yourself you know, how toovercome it, well, why are you
(05:00):
going to be able to scale thishuge clip of a problem? So I
think, however you want to phraseit. Fortunately, unfortunately I was put
into some of these situations where Ididn't feel like I had a choice and
I was forced to overcome something,and then it just kind of kept building.
You know that confidence builds, youkind of see yourself differently, you
(05:20):
kind of look at what you're capableof differently, and just being relentless due
the adversity changed your way. ThatI'm hearing you say is that that that
adversity shifted the way that you viewedobstacles and it just built in you this
never give up mentality. And oneof the things I was saying to you.
(05:42):
That really impacted me was this thingthat you said, You said,
suffer now and live like a champion. Yeah, And I think that has
a lot to do with the waythat you train and the way you think
about the things that you do.Can you just tell us a little bit
about where that comes from and howthat that is a part of your mindset,
that suffering now and live like achampion. Yeah, So suffer now,
(06:04):
live the rest of your life asa champion. That's a Muhammad al
e quote. And I had Ihad these posters from this company called Iconic
and they make these sick graphics.I had. I've always had them in
my home gyms, and that wasone that I didn't even know as a
Muhammad al e quote, but itwas something that I had said to myself.
(06:26):
You know, it was a littlebit different, but it was the
same message of like basically the wayI was looking at it was one of
the best bang for the buck workoutsthat I think, you know I did
in my career was a concept tworowing workout that was nine rounds minute forty
on, twenty seconds off and atwo minute rest in between, so eighteen
(06:49):
minutes of work with a two minutewas twenty minutes start to finish, and
it was gross. Every time youknow you're falling off the rower, you're
a puddle, and it's just likeit builds up so slowly and then before
you know it, you're just thatmax effort and you're trying to maintain it's
only twenty seconds rest in between round. It's it's a brutal, brutal workout.
(07:10):
And I would always look at thatof like twenty minutes of work and
I get to and this, thisis like the biggest thing that's going to
contribute to me living the rest ofmy life like a champion. Twenty minutes.
And I looked at that, likeif I can do this type of
intensity twenty minutes a day, everyday, like it's going to put me
where I need, where I wantto be. I was like, that's
(07:33):
such a small cost. You know, the pain is extreme, you know
the mental toughness that drop, allthat is so fucking hard, But it's
only twenty minutes as all. Iwas like, dude, twenty minutes for
a lifetime of freedom of twenty minutesfor a lifetime of like achievement, Like
(07:53):
why would you not make that sacrifice. Why would you not make that trade?
And I just looked at that asyou know, that bled into everything.
Hmm. I'm with on h wPO pro. I do your program
and it's it's amazing. It's reallybenefited me so much. We do something
similar as all mondays. I alwayshave to do the rowing pieces, which
I feel sick afterwards. On Saturdays, on the days that I do,
(08:16):
we do these things that I don'tknow what you you devise the most horrible
forty minute emoons which we just had. Those are the best? Oh that
was Those are those are some ofmy favorite because of how they started.
You know, I just like thosestarted with just me in the back room.
(08:41):
So so the gym I trained atChamplain Valley CrossFit, they had two
rooms, like the main affiliate roomand then like a side room that was
basically a whole second affiliate but itwas kind of like open gym. So
that's where all like a lot ofthe competitors hang out and stuff, and
and yeah, I just I wasI had a very unique problem that I
wanted to solve and I couldn't figureout a way, So I just kind
(09:05):
of created one and they slowly evolvedinto forty minute emms, and they were
my favorite. I loved them,you know, I think they're some of
the best workouts, greatest ways totrain volume at such a high intensity.
And the biggest thing for me wasthe like inclusiveness, So like I could
(09:28):
be doing a forty minute EMOM andlike, and my goal is trying to
win the games. Family can bedoing the same forty minute EMM next to
me, like same four movements orscale the movements, whatever it is,
but we're in that camaraderie together,so we're both we have that communal suffering
together, and so I just lovedthem that, like can you can pump
sixteen people through a forty minute EMMso conveniently? So I just loved them
(09:54):
for training. But then also Ilove the reactions that nobody did forty minute
e moms. Nobody. And anytimeI was in a new gym or with
a new like training with somebody newfor the day, I would write up
a forty minute em and they'd beI would little bit joking, No,
absolutely not, like it's gonna begood, you know. And now they're
(10:15):
just a staple, like you seethem everywhere, you see every training program,
Like they become a staple, andit's so cool to be like,
oh shit, okay, I thinkI got something right, you know you
little old me left my own devices. Yeah, I think they're brilliant at
that very thing to to get usin the mindset of suffering now, and
I think it really helps with that. One of the things I wanted to
(10:37):
pick up on what you just saidis it's how do you view like facing
and embracing difficult things? Because whatI read, I don't know if it
was in your book or when avideo I watched that you were saying,
Oh, you weren't good at rowing, so you bought a rower and you
rode five k every single day.What would you say about that that part
(11:01):
of your your mindset, which,like you, I think it's like you
force yourself to do the thing youdon't want to do. Yeah, for
for myself, you know. Soone of the most valuable things I've learned
about myself is how I learned whatis the best way for me to absorb
new information? Because you know,now that I know a lot of this
(11:24):
stuff, you know, it explainsa lot of you know, why I
wasn't a great student in high school. It's like, no, that environment
was terrible for just my preference.So once I was in college and kind
of more a lot more independent,I had the freedom to figure that out.
So I learned it there, andthen you know, a year or
two later, I'm then kind ofinvesting in CrossFit and putting more effort in
(11:46):
there. And so I just translatedover like how like this is how I
learned from a textbook, and thisis my formula, and now I'm just
going to apply it to a rower. And now I'm going to apply it
to pull up. Now applied tothat. And one of the biggest things
is just staying present. I didn'trealize that I was doing this without crying.
(12:11):
I was doing it to just helppass the time, because I would
get bored. You know, ifI'm going to the track and running nine
thousand meters worth of intervals, fuckingboring. And I don't run with music
or headphones, like I don't wantto throw off my cadence or my beat
or like, let you know,music play with my emotions. It's like
no, I want to. Iwant to I want to listen to my
(12:33):
breathing. That's what's going to happenin competition. So that's what I want
to become so familiar with. Iwant to know it like the back of
my hand. Well, that wasjust helping me stay present. I'm not
looking at a running workout as ninethousand meters. I'm looking at the running
workout as hitting every fourth step perfectlywith my exhale. So it's like I'm
I'm only ever looking three seconds inthe future. And kind of that happened
(12:56):
indirectly with the emams too. Ifyou look at like, all right,
you got forty minutes worth of workahead of you, and you're in minute
sixteen, and it's like you're infull pain mode, you're in full pay
mode, and you're like, I'mnot even halfway yet. Well, it's
demoralizing. You're like, man,I'm not even halfway and I already feel
(13:16):
like this this is terrible. Well, if you only look at it as
forty seconds worth of work at atime, where it's like I don't have
thirty six more minutes. I havethis next row. I have fifteen calories,
so and even that row, I'mbreaking that up of like, all
right, the first three calories,I'm doing a nice hard sprint start and
I'm gonna let my pace fall andnow I'm going to finish strong. So
even though I'm only looking at themin ten fifteen twenty second increments. So
(13:39):
just staying present and focusing on thetask at hand. As soon as you
think about I still have so muchmore to do. Yeah, so like
that doesn't change the story. Focuson what you're doing right now. And
then the other thing too, wasyou know I learned best by just jumping
in. I learned best from it, like going from experience to you know,
(14:03):
being taught experience taught, and thenI just feel that dot's getting connected
as I'm going. But yeah,you know, with something like that as
well, it's I dove in onthe rower, I'm playing with it.
I'm trying to figure out what worked, what doesn't work? You know,
do I like my feet high low, damp or high low? What paces?
What settings? Like? You getto know that rower so fucking well
(14:26):
that as soon as you get ontoit in the middle of a workout,
it's like you know the within thefirst poll, all right, I know
exactly what pace I'm going to beholding because I know how it feels,
because I spent so much time onthe studying it that I just kind of
know how it works and how I'mgoing to react to it. So it's,
you know, just dive in,jump in with both feet, become
obsessed with it, try to figureout every little nook and cranny trick on
(14:50):
it. Yeah, it's just kindof obsessing over it, and then just
that's all you do. You know. Yeah, I feel like, yeah,
that's so good obsessing with it beingpresent. I know. Sometimes I
think I love what you said aboutlike being able to hear your breathing in
(15:13):
the middle of the workout and notallowing yourself to be distracted and just diving
straight in to do the hard thing. Sometimes the thing that we don't want
to do. Often, like Ifind in my own training or when I'm
training with friends, it's like whenthere's something that I know it's not going
to be good for me, forexample, Burbie box jumpovers. If I
(15:35):
know that's not going to be goodfor me, somewhere in the back of
my head, I've already told myselfI'm not going to be good at that,
or oh, this workout is justnot good for me. And I
think so many of us sometimes allowourselves to believe that to give ourselves an
excuse to just do badly. It'slike, so when I don't do well,
well, I've given myself the excusethat I'm not good at that or
(15:58):
that workout. Get you've given yourselfpermission. Yeah, you've given You've given
yourself permission of like an excuse permissionhowever you want to phrase it. Yeah,
and and yeah, you know,and this is one thing like with
uh, you know, my timeworking with Ben Bergron. He has some
like great mental stuff and like eyelines from him that stayed with me through
(16:21):
through my whole career. And andit was just like never wait for your
workout, like never wait for yourhome run hit. As soon as you
look at a workout and go,oh, you know, this one is
you know, damage control for me, it's like, well, no,
no, that's not right. It'snot it's not damage control. It's not
(16:44):
that you're you're still trying to getas many points as possible. Don't phrase
it as hey, I'm going totry to lose as few points as possible,
because the two points you get fromnineteenth place to eighteenth place are the
same of saying that I was thetwo points you know from seventh to sixth
you know or whatever the point spreadis, but those points are just as
(17:06):
valuable. Yeah, and kind ofwhat you're talking about too, of whether
it's a movement or how you're feelingcoming into a workout or a day of
training. You know, I hadit all the time where training's not in
exact science, you're going to misssome days and overtrain the day prior,
and you come in and you're justlike, man, I feel like shit
today. Yeah, I hit aton of those. And then you know,
(17:30):
you come up to a workout that'syou know, ring muscle ups and
clean and jerks at one eighty fivewhere it's like, yes, okay,
you know, set to ten clean, DRIK twenty five. If I'm feeling
good, yeah, I'm going tobe ripping some touch and ghosts. But
it's like I remember one day specificallycoming in ring muscle ups and it was
like sets the ten back and forthfor someone third number of rounds, and
(17:52):
I just went like, no,I feel like dog shit today. It's
not happening. And instead of leavingit there and just giving myself permission to
like, this workout is going tobe slow, I set a different goal
for myself, like, Okay,I'm not I'm not hitting the set sizes
that I think I should or thatI would be capable of. But I'm
going to put a stamp of successon this workout if I do fast singles
(18:17):
on the clean and jerks all theway through and I never step away from
the bar. So I'm then settinggoals like all right, all the muscle
ups, no more than two setsand no more than a you know,
two seconds in between clean and jerks. So then I still have a reason
to fight in the workout, eventhough I'm like, man, if I
hit this workout for two days,I would shave off three minutes. Well
yeah, okay, so you're notgetting better at that aspect of the workout,
(18:40):
but you're getting better at this aspectof So I look at it like,
all right, when Sunday rolls aroundat the games and everyone's dog tired
and then they still run out inthe first round of the workout like they're
fresh, I'm going to know alittle bit better. I'm going to have
a little bit more experience. I'mgoing to know how to execute perfectly even
though I'm tired. So you know, they all play a role, and
(19:03):
it's just kind of stepping back enoughto look at the bigger picture. Really
good man, Thank you so much. Just before I asked you a little
bit about failure and what failure meansto you. Is there anything else you'd
like to just talk about how todevelop the mindset of a champion life.
Is there anything any anything that youthink you say to yourself or you do
(19:25):
that that that that that has setyou upart over the years, or any
any thing that I can just andyou know, it's like, never feel
too silly. You know, whatworks for you works for you. So
like one of the easiest examples isI can't stay up until four am watching
(19:51):
Netflix or just binge watching whatever.You know, I can be that guy
that I hit the couch at eightpm intending to only watch an hour and
then just like I don't have anythingtomorrow, Like I get to chill,
I don't get to think, Idon't have to think anything. I just
relaxed. Well that has a snowballeffect the next day. Now I'm fucking
grouchy. I'm sure I'm like allthese things. And so it's like I
(20:15):
knew how important it was for abedtime, and you know, when I'm
competing I'm thirty years old, andI'm like, I'm going to give myself
a bedtime and I'm struggling to stickto it. And it was like setting
up notes. You know. Ihad a sticky note next to the TV,
so from anywhere else in the housethey couldn't see it. But from
where I sat on the couch towatch TV at night, I could see
(20:36):
the note and it I forget whatit says specifically, but it was like
turn the TV off at ten,make yourself proud, and it was just
like I knew in the moment.It's so easy, especially if you have
like eight minutes of an episode leftand it's ten pm. You're like,
well, I'm not going to notfinish the episode. And then you finished
the episode, you're like, well, I already broke bedtime curfew, so
(20:56):
what's one more episode? You know, I got left on a cliffhanger.
It's so easy to justify that.And it was one of those things that
like, I felt so silly havingto put a note talking to myself to
remind me like, hey man,you know what you need. You know
how you're going to feel if youstay up late, and you know,
so every once in a while,Like if people walked in the house,
(21:18):
they would see the note and they'dbe like, two really, I'm like,
yep, it helps, Like that'swhat that's what I need. So
it's like whatever your barrier of entryor like whatever that thing that barrier holding
you back from that goal. Figureout what worked for you, and it
doesn't have to work for anyone else. It works for you. That's why
(21:40):
you're doing it. So you know, I had I had so many countless
things like that through my career,where like I would have competitors a training
partner seeing me doing it, They'relike, do you fucking choking and I'm
like, nope, it works.It works for me, Like you know,
So find what works for you andstick to it. I think that's
really good. I think it's areally helpful and I like what you wrote
(22:03):
next to it. Just make yourselfproud, just those little because sometimes so
many of us know the things thatwe should be doing. I know I
should be stretching, I know Ishould be I know I should be going
to bed at this time. Iknow I should be preparing the next day.
I know I should be doing thosethings, But I don't do the
things I need to do. Yeah, but those little things just help going
what we're going to say, andit's and it's those little things that add
(22:25):
up, especially on the sleep side, that's not really a little thing,
but you know, it's so easyto justify, like when you're in that
mood of relax and you have asnack, you're chilling, and then it's
so easy to get derailed. Andso it's just like, Nope, it's
not just it's not just in themoments when it's hard to stay on track.
(22:45):
It's also in those moments where it'sso easy to just those moments that
are dangerous because it's that light veerfrom your goal. Just accelerate. Yeah,
all right, Well I was gonnaI wanted to ask you one more
thing on failure. I think thosetips on mindset have been so helpful.
What would you say? What whatdoes failure mean to you? And why
(23:10):
I asked that is because I thinkso many of us, so many include
myself, like we're just afraid offailing, but so much so that we
don't even try, Like we don'ttry to be our best because we're too
afraid that we won't make it orwe won't we won't be as good as
you or we won't we won't begood, So we're afraid of failure.
So I wanted to ask you whatwhat is failure mean to you? And
(23:32):
how and what has been your biggestfailure? And how is how has that
shaped you to become who you aretoday? Failure to me is just quitting,
huh, you know, like,like the thought of being scared of
failing is so foolish because your resultsfrom not even trying are worse than if
(23:55):
you tried and failed, Like you'remore of a failure for not even trying,
and then you would be if youtried and failed, because at least
if you tried and failed, nowyou have more life experience. Now you
possibly have a new relationship, youhave you know something, some new experience
that you can apply forward. Andalso too, like you need to learn
(24:15):
how to like. For me,it was learning how to like praise my
failures. It's only a failure ifit stays a failure forever, like if
I allow it to stay a failure, you know, like twenty fifteen,
it's so easy in the moment,and I did interviews about it and everything
of like I hate that fucking metal. That metal represents cut corners, it
(24:37):
represents staying up late, it representsa bad diet, it represents a lack
of judgment on the competition floor,like all of these things. That's what
it means to me. And sofor years I hated that metal, you
know, years into retirement. NowI look back. That's my favorite metal.
That's the one that shaped everything.That's if if I had one in
(25:00):
twenty fifteen, it would have Allit would have done is just told me
that your diet is good enough,your sleep is good enough, your training
is good enough, keep doing whatyou're doing. And yeah, I'm sure
I would have traded blows for thetop spot a couple of times, but
there's no fucking chance I would havemade the life overhauling decisions that I did
make. And then you know,immediately my first year back, I win
(25:25):
by the largest margin of victory ever, and I'm like, oh, that
worked okay. But if it wasn'tfor that failure, I would have never
known I had to change those things. And it's always knowing too, Like,
yeah, in the moment, afailure is gonna seem big, but
it's just it's just reminding yourself,like I don't have to stay here.
(25:48):
You can get up, you cankeep going, And like, if you're
scared of failure, it's like,I think the best way to get over
that fear of failure is by failing, kind of proving to yourself, whether
you intend to or not, thatyou're not made a glass, that you're
not fragile. It's like, youknow, in twenty fifteen, Don't get
(26:08):
me wrong, I was a shellof myself for months after I lost in
twenty fifteen, Like I was,I was depressed, ID like, didn't
want to go to the gym.I was, I was questioning everything,
and then just I felt like Ididn't have a choice for anything else,
Like, well, if I leave, then I'm then I'm leaving as a
(26:30):
failure, you know. But soyou know, just coming back in.
And then after that year, thosebad emotions were there until that year,
and I proved to myself like,oh, I'm not made a glass,
you know, Like, Okay,last year was a summation of actions and
decisions, but it's not who Iam. And so you know, whether
(26:53):
you get the results or not,if you're confident in who you are,
it's like, okay, we'll goback to the drawing board, try a
little bit harder, do something alittle bit differently. But yeah, failure
is only a failure to quit.M M. Failure is only a failure.
If you quit, you just haveto stand back up and keep on
going. And I feel like foryou, you're going yeah, you know
(27:15):
I I like, yeah, Foryears I looked at my twenty fifteen season
as a failure of you know,I did XYZ and these were my results
and the they weren't what I wanted. But then looking back now I'm like,
that was the best study guide,like I could have ever asked for,
(27:36):
of like, hey, you trainedlike this and these are your results,
you know. Like so I hadthat experience and like I went into
the twenty sixteen season being like,all right, what did I do wrong
last season? Why did I notget the results I wanted? And then
once you analyze that, then it'slike, Okay, you know, I
(27:56):
found for myself, as long asI'm giving a honest, my best,
honest effort, it really doesn't matterwhat the results are. You know,
I'm pretty psyched. I'm like,nope, that's just where the chips fell.
If I'm not happy with the results, I'll go back to the drawing
board. You know, look atmy past experience. What did I do
well? What did I do poorly? How can I get it better?
And it's just those little tiny babysteps and before you know what, they
(28:19):
add up into like a whole newlife routine. Hmm. Yeah, I
think so many of us just wantto be like we want to be.
We want to be the very besttoday without having like gone through the the
process of forging our character and ourhearts and our minds to get there.
And yeah, as you say thatfor me and such, and I guess
(28:41):
for you as I hear this wewere speaking briefly, I feel like and
reading your book, if anyone hasn'tread Matt's book, would be so good
to just hear more about your story. But I feel like so much of
what you're saying now to take youthe games was actually forged when you were
weightlifting, when you overcame the injury, when you struggled with the things that
you struggled with when you became incollege, when you came over that,
(29:03):
when you all those little things wereforging your your heart and your mindset to
just to stand back up, tojust not quit and and I think in
my experience and sometimes like the veryfact, like if we fell one time,
it's like, oh, that meansI just I'm not meant to do
it. But I just don't thinkthat's true. I just think if for
people listening, just like if you'veif you've, if you've gone through something
(29:26):
difficult and it feels like a failure, don't let it be a failure,
like Matt, don't quit. Juststand up and try again. Reassess in
a small way. Yeah, Ithink in a small way. I was
just going to say, oh,wait, no for it. Well no,
I was just going to say ina small way as I was reading
your book and everything. Last yearI did this small competition here in the
(29:48):
UK. It's called the European CrossFitChampionship. Last year I came thirtieth and
I went in and then I justthought, Okay, next year, I'm
gonna I'm gonna, I'm going toit's going to be completely different. I
thought I was fit going in.So the two weeks beforehand, I had
to travel, I had to dothings, and I thought I could roll
in and it'll be all right.And that was a horrible experience. And
(30:11):
I said I never want to feelthis way again. I came out of
that, I jumped on h wPO Pro and and I went this year
just thinking, I just want todo better than last year. Just I
knew I was better than what Idid. I want to do better.
That was a complete failure, butI want to do better. And as
I went in and and and everyevent, I just thought, I want
(30:33):
to do better than what I didin training. I want to do better
than what I did in training.And how how it ended up happening.
I ended up winning this this October, which was which was every event,
and I was I was saying whatyou say that I was saying, suffer
now, suffer now, suffer now. But but but the key piece is
right is the now part. It'syou're staying present in the moment that you're
(30:56):
in. And it's like you seeit so often of these athletes are show
up and you know they're stressing outabout event six on Sunday because they know
it's like, oh, I'm goingto place really low and it's like,
dude, it's Friday, Like whatare you stressing about Sunday? More like,
you got to worry about this workoutand it's just taking each each workout,
one workout of time, each rep, one rep at a time,
(31:18):
and just always focusing on like howcan I make this rep the best and
not worrying about like, man,when I get to that fourth station,
that shoulder overhead's gonna fuck me up. And it's like, nope, don't.
You got to stay present, worryabout what you're doing right now.
So, so what does failure meanto you? And then you said failure
would be quitting, Well, wouldit be all right? Maybe it is
(31:41):
the twenty fifteenth season, or maybeit was your injury, But what what
has been your biggest failure? Andhow do you think that failure shaped you
to become who you are today?If it's wrong? Man, yeah,
no totally. I mean it's atough one. So you know, there's
there's the answer of like like Idon't be any like regrets or failures,
(32:07):
Like if I could go back,I wouldn't really change anything because it put
me where I am today. Butyou know, obviously looking back, it's
like, man, I wish,you know, I wish going back to
my weight lifting career, I hadthe knowledge that I have now of how
to train or the confidence to moveup a weight class and take a step
(32:28):
backwards to take you know, foursteps forward. But man, in terms
of failures, not like not likewhen you quit. I mean it's like,
what what was this moment or aseason that that that at that time
it felt like, oh, Idon't know what I'm going to do,
But but it actually built you upand I made you better. Oh yeah.
(32:51):
Twenty fifteen is probably the easiest example, you know, mentally, physically,
emotionally, everything, but so oneof the most powerful things that came
out of the twenty fifteen season.And I remember it just like I was
demoralized. I was wrecked because Iwas like, I got the same results
as I did last year, butI feel completely different about them. Like
(33:12):
I love that medal from last year, I hate the metal from this year.
What's the difference? Like why Idon't get it? And just sat
down with a pen and paper,sat down and just started writing. You
know, I always call it beinga two year old to yourself. You
know, when you're like, man, I'm unhappy with this year's results.
Why because I didn't win, Whybecause I cut corners? Why because I
(33:37):
was always going for instant gratifications thata long term picture. Why oh,
because you know, and just keepdoing that until you get down to the
fucking rock bottom. And for myself, you know, like the answers are
usually pretty simple once you get downthat low. And and I my conclusion
(33:57):
from the twenty fifteen season and whyI didn't feel great about it was because
the effort that I put in,I knew. The reason I was so
disappointed about it was because I knewI was capable of more. And it
was my cut corners that you know, probably were the deciding factor, my
laziness, and it was never thebig decisions. It was never like you
(34:20):
know, I never skipped a weekof training. I never skipped a day
of training. You know, Ihit prs that season that I still have
never touched. Like, my trainingwas good. I was getting eight hours
of sleep every night. I waseating plenty of calories. But it's like
my sleeping eight hours a night wasfrom two am until ten am. You
know, I was staying up late. You know, it was just I
(34:42):
was doing everything wrong. So yeah, you know, I just sat down
with a notebook a couple hours,no phone, TV, music, nothing,
just me in a room, penand paper, and I got down
to a conclusion that I just wasn'tproud of the effort that I put in
that the twenty fourteen season, likeI did every I I did the best
(35:05):
I could with the knowledge I had, and I got the results I got
and I was psyched about it.And then twenty fifteen, I just I
made bad decisions and I knew theywere bad decisions when I made them.
I just thought I could outtrain abad diet. I thought I could outtrain
to sleep schedule all that. So, yeah, I think that would probably
be the biggest one of just andhow I overcame it was really realizing what
(35:28):
is my motivation? What is thecarrot at the end of my stick?
Why am I doing this? Andif I don't have a really true reason
that you know it's for me andnot for you know, the people around
me and anything like that, thenit the results are secondary. As long
as I put in the effort,I do everything in my power to put
(35:49):
myself where I want to be,then that that's all I can do.
After that it's out of my control. Well, brilliant, Matt, thank
you so much for your time today. I've learned so much much. I've
taken loads of notes, and I'mso grateful for for you making time while
you're in Hawaii with with Sammy andyour baby to come and speak to me.
Thank you so much for today,Thanks for having me man. Congrats
(36:12):
on the competition. Keep working hard, and thank you for the Thank you
for h w p O. I'mreally grateful for it. I've got all
my friends on it as well.Steve Yeah, oh yeah, he's crushing.
Oh I love that guy. Allright, we'll see you, Matt.
What is there any else, anythingelse you'd like to say to everyone
listening? Just one one last thingbefore we say goodbye. Hard work pays
(36:36):
off. Doesn't matter what what venueyou're in, it's whatever your goals are.
Hard work pays off. So good. Thank you so much everyone for
listening. Hard work pays off.
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