Clas Svahn April 25th 2026

Topic: UFOs/UAPs
 
Clas Svahn is a prominent Swedish journalist at Dagens Nyheter and president of UFO-Sverige (UFO Sweden), specializing in researching and documenting unexplained phenomena. Recognized for his scientific approach, he was named People’s Educator of the Year 2024 in Sweden. He has over 50 years of experience studying UFOs, authored several books, and contributes to international media on the subject
 
Websites: https://ufo.se – What is AFU?

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/midnight-frequency-radio--6625891/support.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:35):
From the Ozark foothills, up the unknown to the quiet
corners of the world, where something watches just beyond the veil.
This is midnight frequency radio. Tonight we begin not with theory,
not with speculation, but with something happening right now. Just
days ago, the United States government once again moved toward

(00:56):
releasing classified UFO files documents to described as containing very
interesting findings, with officials confirming that long hidden material on
UFOs and an identified aerial phenomenon could soon be made public.
Military videos, radar data, encounters that for years have lived

(01:18):
behind closed doors now on the edge of disclosure, and
it raises a question that refuses to go away. If
this is what they're willing to show us, why are
they still keeping hidden? For decades, people have looked to
the skies and wondered. Lights that move against the wind,

(01:38):
objects that defy physics, encounters that leave witnesses forever changed.
Are we alone or have we never been? Governments deny,
then confirm, then obscure pilot's report. Scientists hesitate, and somewhere
in between lies the truth hidden not in fiction but

(01:59):
the experience of ordinary people who saw something extraordinary. But tonight,
we're not chasing rumors. We're speaking with a man who
has dedicated more than half a century to separating fact
from fiction, a voice of reason in a field often
dominated by belief. Joining us tonight is Claus Spraun, a

(02:22):
prominent Swedish journalist with Daugins Naitre and the president of
UFO Saveeg, one of the most respected civilian UFO research
organizations in the world. Claus specializes in researching and documenting
unexplained phenomenon with a disciplined scientific approach, a rarity and

(02:45):
a subject that often drifts into speculation. In twenty twenty four,
Clause was recognized as Sweden's People Educator of the Year,
a testament to his ability to bring clarity to one
of humanity's odist and most mysterious questions. With over fifty
years of experience studying UFOs, authoring multiple books, and contributing

(03:08):
to international media, he has seen the evolution of this
mystery from foreign curiosity to global conversation, and tonight, he
joins us, we'll explore the infamous ghost rockets, modern unidentified
aerial phenomenon, government transparency, and the deeper question that lingers

(03:29):
beneath it all. What are we seeing so dim the lights,
turn up the signal and keep your eye on the
sky because the truth may already be here. I'm your host,
Carl Richardson, and this is Midnight Frequency Radio. We'll be
right back with Klaus from after this.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
Where can the skills you learn with HAM radio take you?
Amateur READIODO, often called HAM radio, is the place where
today's engineers got their start. Ham radio is more popular
than ever before, with hands on training in electronics, engineering
and digital communications, modern hands interface computers and radios in
entirely new ways. Ham radio in the twenty first century
can take you around the world or into a whole

(04:18):
new career. Learn more. Go to ARRL dot org. Join us.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
Looking for a portable radio, Let us slip into your pocket.
Take a look at the Ccpocket AMFM, NOAH Weather Radio
plus Alert with clock and sleep timer. We combine needs
of use, very good reception and sharp, well defined audio
together in this little jewel of a radio. You can
listen on the built in speaker are the included high
quality original ccmud earphones tuned for superior voice quality and music.

(04:50):
It has five one touch memories R type buttons for
each band and stance upright when needed. To get your
ccpocket radio, you can call one eight hundred five two
two eight eight six three are Visit us on the
web at scrane dot com once again that ccr aede
dot com.

Speaker 3 (05:12):
The Bible describes men's thoughts in the last days as
deeply corrupted, selfish, and rebellious against God, marked by perilous times.
In Reverse Speech, The Fulfillment of Prophecy, David John Oates
goes beyond psychology and linguistics to ask a deeper question.

(05:34):
Did scripture anticipate a time when hidden words would be revealed?
Drawing from the Bible, the Gospels, revelation, and ancient spiritual traditions,
this book examines recurring themes long overlooked, the voice of
the heart, words that testify against us, secrets proclaimed from

(05:54):
the housetops, sealed books opened at the appointed time, and
the two edges d sword that proceeds from the mouth.
David Oates argues that these are not merely poetic metaphors,
but descriptions of a revelatory process now made visible through
modern technology. Reverse Speech Fulfillment of Prophecy now available at

(06:17):
Amazon dot com. Get your copy today.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
We'll come to my night frequency radio.

Speaker 4 (07:02):
Thank you, Carl. It's in the middle of the night
here in Sweden, so it's nice to be with you.

Speaker 1 (07:09):
Well, I'm sorry that our time differences make it this way,
but I definitely am honored to have you on the show.
What first drew you to the study of UFOs, especially
being in a country like Sweden.

Speaker 4 (07:22):
I started out as interested in astronomy, and I always
wished for hard packages on Christmas Eve books and I
started reading about life and outer space and the planets
and everything that interested me. And in the late nineteen
sixties the first real good UFO books started to appear

(07:49):
here in Sweden, so I wished for them as well,
and I realized there was something that I didn't really
understood so well. It was the mystery was what's really
going on and what are people really seeing? That got
me hooked.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
How did you first become involved with the UFO Sweden.

Speaker 4 (08:12):
Well, it was in nineteen seventy four. I was sixteen
at that point. I decided to start the UFO Society
in my hometown. It's called Mariostad, a small town twenty
two thousand citizens something like that at that time, and

(08:32):
I joined you for Sweden as a local group. Because
of Sweden was the only nationwide entity that really tried
to investigate the phenomena, and that was something I really
wanted to do. I didn't just wanted to read about it.
I wanted about in the field, meeting the witnesses and

(08:54):
trying to uncover what they really saw in the heavens.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
So your position and kind of took the position of
move on and SETI and all of those in one passage.

Speaker 4 (09:06):
Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely, And I've been in for Sweden since that,
and every day since nineteen seventy four, I've been doing
something connected to UFOs.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
What do you feel separates serious UFO investigation from sensationalism.

Speaker 4 (09:26):
I think it's the belief. I'm not a believer. I'm
a curious investigator. I know that there is something very
strange going on that people see, but I don't tend
to speculate. I want to use the instrument of signs

(09:47):
to dwell deeper into the topic. I want to know
and not only believe. So I think that that is
the thing, really and I think when you do that,
you can present and more interesting facts to the public.
Because people believe in anything and everything nowadays, and it's

(10:09):
so easy to spread the beliefs through internet, so there
is the need for more down to Earth investigation. Really is.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
Far beyond some of the things you see on Facebook,
I'm sure.

Speaker 4 (10:26):
Yeah, indeed very far away.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
How has your background in journalism influenced your approach to
UFO research.

Speaker 4 (10:35):
Yeah, I started as a studying natural sciences, and after
that I attended high school and started a journalists for
three years, and after three years, I worked at the
newspaper in my hometown for five years, and I've been

(10:57):
a journalist for forty forty five years but now I'm retired.
But I ended up the last thirty three years at
the largest newspaper in Sweden called down as Neater. So
I've been covering many different topics, of course, but from
time to time I also covered UFOs. And I think

(11:18):
being a journalist is a very big advantage because you
are used to talking to people. You're used to looking
for the facts, not to believe in anything you're here,
but to question it. Even though you are of course
trusting the people you are listening to, you must really

(11:40):
check the facts and there's speculations and we are used
to that as journalists, so that's a very good start.
I think it's very good to be a journalists and
a gypologist.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
You've discussed ghost rockets in the past. Can you explain
the phenomenon.

Speaker 4 (11:58):
Yeah, it's a big topic. You can say it's very old,
it's nineteen forty six, but it's still going on today.
But if you go back to nineteen forty six, it
was just a year after World War Two ended. People
here in Sweden and in Norway and in Finland started

(12:19):
to see well what they described us in the beginning,
just lights in the sky flying over the heavens. But
in the April May nineteen forty six, the reports started
coming into the Swedish military about rocket like things flying
in broad daylight, and from time to time people saw

(12:43):
them crashing, and they always crashed into lakes, which is
very very curious, of course, And in July the Swedish
military started this special investigation with the Ghost rocket Committee,
loads of guys from special branches, interviewing people, sending people

(13:09):
out of the lakes, trying to find what's crashed into them.
And they did this for well the entire ninety forty
six and there were more than one thousand reports and
at one point to Swedish fighter pilot tried to follow
one of those ghost rockets, but he was outflown by it.

(13:32):
And I spent a lot of time investigating those ninety
forty six sightings in interviewing people. I interviewed the loads
of witnesses, military investigators and people interested in the topics, policemen,
everyone you can think of. So yeah, it started that

(13:53):
in that way, but it's still going on today and
you can still investigate things crashing down into lakes here
in especially Sweden and Norway, So it's an ongoing topic.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
Why do you think these signings occurred primarily in Sweden
and nearby regions?

Speaker 4 (14:11):
I mean, that is the question. Really, it's very hard
to understand that, and we don't have the answer why
Sweden and Norway and a little Finland not Denmark, and
why only lakes? And I mean, if I can tell
you that there is one special day, July nineteenth, just

(14:35):
to give your new listeners listeners an air or what happened.
It's starting in a small village in the very north
of Sweden. Two sons who are out working together with
their father harvesting, and this is in the middle of
the day. Really it's eleven o'clock and they take a break,

(14:59):
and suddenly he's seeing the sky this object like a
milk camp coming flying from the south slowly, and he's
flying rotating, sending flares on the sunlight to their eyes,
and he's passing over them in the middle of the

(15:19):
sky and then down to the northern horizon. And at
that point is eleven thirty And at the same time,
fifty miles further north, an eleven year old guy is
sitting angling in a small lake and you hear this
sound coming from the heavens, and he's looking up and
you see this elongated craft crashing just in front of

(15:43):
him with the bang. So he runs away and he's
screaming it's the devil is going down into the lake,
and he's fetching his father, and they could see nothing,
only waves on the lake. But only fifteen minutes thereafter that,
another crash occurs in another lake, nineteen miles further north,

(16:07):
and the whole village here a sound and I can
see the cigar shaped object coming crashing down in front
of them with a huge bang. And three o'clock in
the afternoon, another crash in another lake, and three forty
fourth crash in another lake. So in four hours there

(16:29):
are four crashes in four lakes and the military sense
people out there trying to investigate, trying to find whatever
it was, and they only found indentations in the bottom
of the lakes and stone's being thrown up and the
sea little is floating on the surface of the lake,

(16:52):
and loads of witnesses. So that was the typical day.
July nineteenth, nineteen forty six, was one of the biggest
crash waves during that year in Sweden.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
Besides the indentations and craters left behind, were there any
other traces or radar confirmations.

Speaker 4 (17:14):
Yeah, they got some radar confirmations, but they were not
very solid. I mean, the radar at that point, called
E three B, was not very good. And I know
that both the United States and the Great Britain they
knew about many other things that the Swedish military did.

(17:36):
It was supposed to be secret, but it leaked quite
a lot to both the US and the UK. And
they in the UK said that the radar returns were
not very very solid. They never trusted them, and I
can understand that. But they did see stuff on radar,
they did do that. But the radar at that point
was not as good as today, of course, but nothing

(17:58):
else was found. They never found any debris, just these
small holes in the bottom of the lake and loads
of witnesses and loads of them.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
Do you feel that these were early messile tests? Are
possibly extra terrestrial craft or something entirely different?

Speaker 4 (18:15):
I should say something entirely different. Of course. The Swedish
military thought it's was the Soviet Union doing this, But
as far as we have been able to research, the
Soviet Union had of course got their hands on the
V bombs, you know, the V bombs that were sent

(18:39):
over London in nineteen forty four nineteen forty five by
the Nazis. They thought maybe they had improved them and
were sending over Sweden. But you don't do that, I mean,
you don't do that one year after the war, being
exposed to being caught very easily, and there were not

(19:01):
a trace of any debris, of course, So no, it
was not missile tests. Was it the aliens? Well that
we couldn't tell, of course, But if there were aliens,
they were really crashing head on into lakes and not
use technology. That is very very strange to us. To me,

(19:24):
the goost rocket way. It is just a mystery. It's
a real big fat mystery with so many witnesses, so
many investigations by the military and nothing really nothing turned.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
Out, so it's all still unsolved to this day.

Speaker 4 (19:43):
It is it is, but as indicated, there have been
crashes after that, and you for Sweden has been up
in this lake in very north of Sweden called Lake Namayaha,
where a goost rocket in nineteen eighty not crashed but
landed and sank in front of two witnesses. And we've
been there with the radar equipment and ground penetrating radar

(20:11):
equipment and we have seen there is something resting in
the mud deep into the lake. So we will go
back there and see if we can get a better
return on this. It's a natural forest area, so you
cannot do whatever you want there, but we will go

(20:32):
back and see if we can pinpoint with a better
picture how this craft which we think it is, looks
like and maybe get permission to try to get it
up from the from the bottom of the lake.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
With modern day sightings, do you feel that things have
changed with smartphones and satellites?

Speaker 4 (20:55):
Yeah, I mean you shot when you have so many
smallphones around get very good pictures, and we don't. You
for Sweden investigate around three hundred cases of UFOUR reports
every year, and I would say that eighty or ninety

(21:16):
are pictures taken with smartphones, and every single one of
them is a spec of light in the night or
just a dot in the sky in daylight. So no conclusive,
conclusive evidence, has no really crafts seeing on those films
or pictures, which I think indicates that UFOs, the real

(21:40):
ufor mystery is very, very scarce. About one or two
of those three hundred cases every year are considered bona
fide mysteries really, so most of them we are able
to solve, and the smartphone doesn't help us this far.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
What percentage do you feel of cases can be explained
versus those that are still unknown?

Speaker 4 (22:09):
Yeah, usually you say ten percent is the figure that
most people should say, but I should say it's even lower.
It's yeah, just a couple of percent that are real mysteries.
But they are also very good. By good, I mean
most of them have several witnesses, maybe radar returns, maybe

(22:34):
good pictures, but that is suldomness. I told you we
are investigating the case right now from the Stockholm Archipelago
from July sixteenth, twenty twenty three. A guy was out
with his boat and suddenly in front of him this ball,

(22:57):
like an aluminium silver ball, is probably coming from underneath
the waves up in front of him, flying in a
in the six sac like a Z formation, from from
left to right, left to right, very very fast, and

(23:17):
the sun is shining on its hulls. You can see
the reflections in this obviously metallic hull and it's disappearing
in the distance. So it's coming up, flying away very
fast in this six sact formation. So it's a that's
an interesting case. We are still working on that. We

(23:38):
have another case that is very interesting. In the middle
of the night, it's a girl out walking her dog
in Gothenburg. It was just like last summer, and you
see this reddish ball of light hovering over a graveyard

(23:58):
and it's traveling, but it stops over this tombstone, over
this gravestone for a while and then flies away. And
the next day she check it out and you can
see it. It had put something very strange blackish thing
on the gravestone, this tombstone, and we have taken samples

(24:20):
of that and they are just now being reviewed and
we are trying to see what was it that really
affected the stone so much that it changed color. So
that is two of the cases we are working with
that are more interesting than the specs of lights in

(24:41):
the night that you are you're catching on your on
your smartphone.

Speaker 1 (24:45):
Can you kind of walk us through your process when
investigating a sighting?

Speaker 4 (24:51):
Yeah, I mean mostly people are reporting to you for Sweden,
to UFO dot s which are website of course, and
then our reports center reads all of the reports and
if they are interesting enough, we are calling back to

(25:12):
the observer and after this first telephone call we are
deciding if it's worth going further on with. So at
that point we are sending field investigators to meet the
observer at the point of observation. We are making interviews

(25:34):
and of course taking pictures and measurements and all that
stuff at every UFO investigated does and after that we
are starting to check with well authorities and flight radar
and radar whatever means we can to see if we
can see if something can explain the observation. And when

(25:57):
we are ready with all the investigations, especially group are
looking at the work that you feel investigated did and
decides if it's done properly, and if it's done properly,
it will be evaluated. And after that we are writing
about it in our magazines who Fact About and apotnit

(26:21):
and being published. So that is really what we do.
And after that it will be an archives for the unexplained,
which is the world's largest archive when it comes to
the unknown.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
Have you encountered a case that you felt truly defied explanation?

Speaker 4 (26:40):
Yeah, many times really, and many times I met with many,
many witnesses and military witnesses. One that I really think
is strange happened in nineteen seventy five. It's a long
time ago. It was a minute operation at the border

(27:01):
to Norway. It was called Operation Argus and Operation da Kap.
It was two operations in the early nineteen seventies. The
military had put the radar units on the border and
they worked together with Norway, the police, the customs and
the military together because they were flying strange objects from

(27:24):
Norway to Sweden. And sometimes it was flying what looks
like more like ordinary aircraft, but they had no insignia
and no lights, flying in very bad weather and landing.
But at this point it was November the seventh, a
military unit helicopter pilot and his school pilot were waiting

(27:50):
as they did every night, for orders to intercept. And
they got this order because they saw on the radar
something coming from Norway. So they they lifted the flow
to this point where this object was to appear. They
were flying only twenty jars over the tree tops. The

(28:13):
moon was shining, and it was snow on the ground.
It was very good visibility. And suddenly this pilot tells
me this object, an elongated mithsile like thing with no cockpit,
no wings, no light, flies underneath the helicopter, between the
helicopter and the tree tops. And he said to me,

(28:35):
I lifted my feet. It was so close. So he
lifted his feet, which of course wouldn't have made any difference,
but he did it anyway, and they could see this
strange crawd flying in front of them and disappearing. And
this is a very good story, of course. But last
autumn I was able to find the secret file formerly

(28:58):
now secret file where you can see the radar retodes.
You can see this object flying extremely close to the helicopter,
and you can also read the report that the helicopter
pilot had reported back to the security services of the
landing that this craft was extremely close to hitting the helicopter,

(29:24):
but apparently aware of the helicopter and flying away without
being able to be found again. That is an interesting
case because it's corroborated by radar. And yeah, that's good,
good case.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
I think I probably would have lifted more than my feet.
What's your perspective on the US government recent acknowledgements of UAPs.

Speaker 4 (29:51):
Yeah, I think it's good that governments around the world
from time to time do that. I mean, the usgo
has done this before from time to time in different ways.
And of course you never got to see the best
the best things. I mean, what you are going to

(30:12):
see is always downgraded. They want they wouldn't like the
Chinese or the Russians to know how good stuff you have.
They don't want them to know how good your radar
units are, so we will never see the very good stuff.

(30:33):
I mean, the films that we have seen this far,
they're not very impressive as films, but the stories, of course.
I mean I talked to Ryan Graves, one of the
pilots that have encountered UFOs over the Atlantic. As you know,
Ryan Graves is a very good guy. He's started this

(30:55):
enterprise helping pilots, both civilian and military pilots to come
forward and talk about UFOs commanding for that really and
he he was on this ship after one of those
films were taken that you have seen. You know, the

(31:20):
film they are shouting is rotating, you know, it's rotating.
When his friend who filmed this landed on the vessel,
he was able to see the full film. What we
have seen is just a downgraded, very short version. But

(31:41):
Ryan Graves tells me that the full version is crystal clear,
and you can also see like formation V formation flying
and turning and that we have not seen. So there
are things being held away from us, of course, and

(32:02):
I would love to see this new probably upcoming.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
You know.

Speaker 4 (32:06):
Donald Trump has said that he will he will disclose
more films forty six or whatever it is now, more material,
more data, more reports. Yeah, I'm curious about it. I
think it's very good, but I don't think it will
change that much as we are hoping for.

Speaker 1 (32:30):
Yeah, I've listened to the hearings and stuff, and I
think he really wants to release it, but I think
there are people behind the scenes that probably would prefer
they're not. I'm not holding my breath on any of it,
but I look forward to it if it is released.

Speaker 4 (32:47):
Yeah, the very same here.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
Do you think Sweden handles their UFO reports differently than
we do here in the States.

Speaker 4 (32:55):
Yeah? Maybe. I mean we have been able to thousands
and thousands of pages to classified during the years, very
interesting reports, but nothing like smoking gun or something like that.
All we know is that it's an ongoing, real mystery.

(33:20):
This is not only things happening in the minds of people.
It's something bonafide, something that is real hardware. I'm not
sure that the Swedish military takes this as serious as
they should. I've been talking to two commanders and others
for time to time. They're not as interested in this

(33:44):
as the US seems to be. And maybe it's, of course,
because US are more interesting for whatever it is flying
those things to take a look at. So and I'm
not sure that I think they should do more here
in Sweden because I know that there are things flying

(34:06):
in the sky here that they should be interested in.
I've seen on military radar myself a UFO once, because
it was an observation in two thousand and three in
October thirteenth, which I call the first smartphone picture of

(34:27):
a UFO in Sweden, up in the very north in
the Moscow yarby two guys who were out in the night.
They were sitting really playing cards inside the cottage and
they hear something and they walk outside this cottage and
they see a very very bright, shiny thing flying towards them.
One of the guys get this mobile take a picture

(34:50):
and they can see the obit flying around the house
before vanishing. And I was able to go to the
military intelligence service or unit through contacts, and I was
able to see the radar film from that incident, and
that in that film you can see the object flying

(35:11):
around this it's a small lake. Really, you cannot see
where it comes from. You cannot see any where it's
and she is either it's just there flying in a circle.
And the military really tried to get the answer on that,
but they were not able to do that. And we
have many cases with with radar reterms, but this is

(35:34):
the only one I've seen with my own eyes.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
Do you see any physical patterns.

Speaker 4 (35:39):
You mean, like traces on the ground.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
Now amongst the witnesses, are there any patterns to there,
to the people that report.

Speaker 4 (35:49):
It the backgrounds, yes, yes, yes, yeah, no, I haven't really,
this could happen to anyone, so there's really no connection
between the witnesses. It just happened to people. Some people
are more skilled observers than others, of course, but if

(36:11):
you take a policeman or an ordinary worker, they are
usually as bad observers as the other one. I talked
to the head of the unit that works with the
drones and the Swedish police and he told me that,
you know, our policemen are as bad observers as anyone else.

(36:34):
And I know that firsthand. They are not trained doing this,
and they're not skilled in any other way that solving crimes.
So when something very strange happens, they are just you
and me. They are baffled, and sometimes they forget to

(36:54):
take pictures and notes.

Speaker 1 (36:56):
Have you encountered cases where witnesses were deeply affected or traumatized.
I'm sure you have, but.

Speaker 4 (37:04):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I mean witnesses that have been affected
that in a way that I've been thinking of this
for every day, for the whole life. I had one case,
a ghost rocket from nineteen forty six, A guy who
was the owner of a photo shop in Gothenburg. He

(37:29):
was traveling together with his friends up to Stockholm from Gostenburg,
which is quite a distance. He was taking a break
outside Noise Shopping, which is south of Stockholm, the middle
of the day and he was filming with his brand
new Payard Bollocks film camera the view and suddenly one

(37:51):
of his friends shouts, oh, look what is that? And
he points up in the sky and all of the
three men can see this cigar shape object with no wings,
nothing but an exhaust trailer. Like it told me it
was like the set on five rocket that it was
flying horizontally coming out of a cloud. And it turns

(38:13):
the camera to the object and it turns the telephone
do Lins instead, And he followed the object and he
films it. It's traveling into another cloud and out of
that and he films it. And after that it vanishes
and did They packed all the stuff and they go
to Stockholm and give the film to the military and

(38:33):
they are sitting there in the theater looking at the
film and it's blank that he had adjusted the telephone
lins wrong when he turned to that. He didn't adjust
for the lights. It was overexposed, and he told me
he was thinking of this incident every day since nineteen

(38:57):
forty six, and I got hold of him in nineteen
eighty five or something like that. So for forty years
this had haunted him up until his death, I should say.
So it was really really affected. And I also met
people who have been affected in other ways, not harmed

(39:18):
that Some people have shown me indentations and stuff among
their bodies that when they think may have been put
there by some entities that they met. We do, have,
of course reports of entities here in Sweden as well.
They are not very common, I should say, very very

(39:42):
very seldom. We knew for Sweden get reports of aliens
or whatever you would call them, but we do, of
course get our share of that.

Speaker 1 (39:53):
We've done a little ways here. I think I'm going
to go into my first break and then we'll come
back and continue on.

Speaker 4 (40:23):
The corner of.

Speaker 5 (40:44):
This is dark matter news. I'm Joshua Stark. Scientists have
for the first time directly measured the raw power of
jets blasting out of a black hole, and the results
are staggering. The breakthrough comes from long term observations of
the famous black hole Sycee them Signess X one, located
about seven thousand light years from Earth. Using nearly two

(41:06):
decades of global radio telescope data, researchers tracked the motion
of its so called dancing jets, which wobbled due to
the gravitational pull of a nearby companion star. What they
found is extraordinary. These jets are moving at roughly half
the speed of light, over three hundred million miles per hour,

(41:30):
and release energy equivalent to about ten thousand suns. Even
more surprising, scientists discovered that around ten percent of the
material falling toward the black hole isn't swallowed at all. Instead,
it's blasted back into space through these jets, offering new
insight into how black holes manage the energy they absorb

(41:53):
and release. This marks the first time astronomers have directly
measured that output, rather than relying on indirect estimates. The
findings could significantly reshape our understanding of how black holes
grow and how they interact with their environments. On a
larger scale, these powerful jets are believed to help shape

(42:16):
entire galaxies, heating surrounding gas, influencing star floormation, and playing
a key role in cosmic evolution. In short, black holes
may not be just the cosmic destroyers. They could be
some of the universe's most powerful engines. Catch up with
this at darkmatternews dot com. In a major scientific breakthrough,

(42:38):
physicists at CERN have successfully transported animatter for the first time,
something long thought nearly impossible outside tightly controlled lab environments.
The achievement comes from the Base experiment, which studies the
fundamental properties of antimatter. Researchers manage to safely move a

(42:59):
tiny number of antiprotons, just ninety two particles across CERN's
facility using a specially designed portable containment system. Antimatter is
extremely difficult to handle because it annihilates instantly upon contact
with normal matter, releasing energy. To prevent that the particles

(43:21):
were stored in a high tech device known as a
Penning trap, which uses magnetic and electric fields along with
an ultra high vacuum and cold temperatures. This is dark
matter News. Scientists have made a major breakthrough in understanding
a long standing mystery tied to vitamin B one, confirming

(43:43):
a theory that's been debated for nearly seventy years. For decades,
researchers believed that vitamin b one, also known as thiamin,
could briefly form a highly unstable molecule called a carbine
inside the body. These molecules are extremely reactive and typically

(44:03):
fall apart almost instantly, especially in water, making them nearly
impossible to observe directly. Now, for the first time, scientists
have successfully stabilized this elusive molecule in water, proving that
decades old theory was correct. To do it, they created

(44:23):
a kind of molecular armor that shields the carben from
reacting with its surroundings, allowing it to remain intact long
enough to study. This breakthrough not only solves a major
biochemical puzzle, but also opens the door to practical applications.
Carbines play a key role in chemical reactions used to

(44:46):
produce pharmaceuticals, fuels, and other materials, but those processes often
rely on toxic solvents. By making these reactions possible in
water instead, researchers say this could lead to cleaner, more
environmentally friendly manufacturing methods beyond industrial uses. The discovery also

(45:08):
brings scientists closer to understanding how chemical reactions naturally occur
inside living cells, which are mostly made of water, catch
up with dark matter news on Facebook and darkmatternews dot
com from Memphis, Tennessee. I'm Joshua Dark.

Speaker 4 (45:40):
Don't you know why I have come long long?

Speaker 1 (45:43):
Welcome back to midnight frequency radio with our guest Class one,
Class one. Last question on the topic we were in before.

(46:07):
Do you think cultural beliefs influence how people what they see?
Do you think it affects them?

Speaker 4 (46:14):
Absolutely? I should say you can. You can take a
look at the timeline when when the modern UFO era
started in eighteen ninety it was considered to be spy
balloons when they saw those strange objects over the Baltic
area here south southeast or Sweden, you have the Baltic area,

(46:39):
and they were interpreted what they saw in the sky
or something sent by another country balloons, spy balloons. And
in eighteen ninety six ninety seven, of course, you had
this airship wave in the US Western and Middle US,
and people thought that what they saw in the sky
were something like an inventor somewhere in Texas maybe had

(47:06):
invented a flying machine. So that was what they thought.
And in the early nineteen hundreds, nineteen ten and twelve
and fourteen around there in Great Britain, they saw what
they thought for zeppelines airships from Germany. I mean, that
was the most high tech they could think of. And

(47:28):
in nineteen thirties you had this big wave of ghost
flyers over Sweden. Everyone thought they were spying from aircraft,
aircraft flying in the night and in very bad weather,
but they were never talking about aliens. They were talking

(47:49):
about machines like aircraft. In nineteen forty four forty five
you had full fighters over Germany and the bomber pilots
coming from the US and the UK. They thought it
was some strange weapon built by the Nazis that were

(48:12):
following the aircraft. In nineteen forty six we have the
ghost rockets and everyone was thinking that was something from Russia,
from something like a V Bombo, things like that. And
in nineteen forty seven you've got the flying saucers with
the Canatonal observation in June nineteen forty seven, and suddenly

(48:36):
people were thinking about the aliens. And before that no
one had speculated about aliens really. And now everyone is
talking about drones because drones is the most high tech
thing we can think of. And so when fighter pilots
are meeting strange cross in the sky. They are thinking

(48:59):
of some very very high tech maybe alien drones, unmanned,
and we're also talking about interdimensional creatures. I mean, we
are always taking the most high tech thing we can
think of at that point and try to understand what
we see in the sky out from that point of view.

(49:24):
So yeah, we are very much shouldn know our time,
and I think that's a problem. Really. It's very hard
to look at the UFO enigma neutral and objective, Very
very hard to do that. You're always influenced by things
around you.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
It kind of progresses as the times pass.

Speaker 4 (49:45):
Yeah, I mean, and the progress is something that we
are doing. I don't think that the UFOs are progressing.
It's we and our interpretations that are changing, trying to
understand something we really can't understand.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
Yeah, we try to put what we know to the
to the explanation. Yeah. Have you ever been to the
International UFO Laboratory in Japan.

Speaker 4 (50:18):
No, I've been in Japan, but not to that. No.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
Tell me, well, it's the if you are the main
branch I guess is in Japan. Do you have any
things that you've found out through the I F you?

Speaker 4 (50:37):
Oh, I mean the archives for the unexplained. Yes, yes, yeah,
it's here in Sweden. I mean it's okay, south of Stockholm,
in Nausehopping.

Speaker 1 (50:48):
I confuse the two have apologies there.

Speaker 4 (50:50):
Yeah. Yeah, it's not easy to keep track of everything
strange that happens. If you started in nineteen seventy three,
just for one year before I started my UFO business
in Mariostod, and it's started as a UFO archive. Really
we started to collect books and some reports. But during

(51:15):
the years, say if you, has amassed millions of different things, documents, books,
and paraphernalia connected to not only UFOs, but to parapsychology, ghosts,
astronomic astronomical anomalies, and usual natural phenomena, folklore like people's

(51:39):
reports of elves, gnomes and other entities. So it's today,
it's two point seven miles of shelf space, it's four
point three kilometers of shelf space.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
That's huge.

Speaker 4 (51:55):
It is huge, it's really huge, and it's a depository
knowledge from all over the world. And speaking of Japan,
we had a Japanese guy coming from Tokyo flying in
for three days just dwelving into our Japanese holdings. So

(52:16):
we have collections from all over the world. I went
to Moscow in early nineties trying to get a copy
of the KGB files and I was able to do that.
I brought back a copy of some of the files.
Probably maybe not though. I've also been to the United

(52:39):
States and I saved the Borderland Sciences Research Foundations files.
That's the oldest UFO group in the world. They started
nineteen forty six. I've been to Norway, Denmark, Finland, Poland, Germany, Britain.

(52:59):
Of course many many countries saving important collections before they
have been wasted or just lost. So we are working
together universities here in Sweden, we are working together with researchers.
We have visitors every week from Sweden and many other

(53:21):
countries and helping them to do their research into our files.
And today we are working together with the community of
noll Shipping, which is the city that if you are
situated in. They want to help us to find one
big locality that we can build a visitor center and

(53:44):
an exhibition, as well as finding a very very good
environment for our files. I mean we have I mean
around eighty thousand UFO files, but we have millions of
other stuff. It's really something that should be preserved for
the future, of course, and I'm I'm a chairman for

(54:07):
the AFU Foundation. I work every day trying to find
a good future for a few You can be see
and see for yourself some of the stuff.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
It amazes me that this stuff is a worldwide endeavor
among researchers and collecting evidence and stuff. I had the
opportunity at the Ozart UFO conference to meet Samuel Chong
and he was discussing the UFO phenomenal and stories that

(54:40):
have taken place in China. So this is this is
not just localized the one part of the earth. It's
all over.

Speaker 4 (54:49):
Yeah, it's really all over that some countries are of
course better to publish stories and in other countries. I mean,
if you could Africa, you don't hear that much from
Africa when it comes to UFOs. And many countries in
Africa has bigger problems than investigating UFOs. Of course, how

(55:11):
the countries are influenced by their religion and interpret things
seen in the sky is maybe something evil or something
that should be interpreted as something religious instead. So and
we have this language career. It's hard for us to
read Chinese and Japanese, Russian, whatever you want. So Britain

(55:39):
and the US is overexposed because we are having not
that big problems to read what the newspapers are publishing there.
So I think it's this phenomenon is really all over
the world.

Speaker 1 (55:57):
Of course, Well, if you ever need any help translating
anything from China, I recommend contacting Samuel because he's also
an interpreter, so he would be a big help.

Speaker 4 (56:09):
That's good. We need good guys that can speak of
the languages.

Speaker 1 (56:13):
Still ours, through all your investigation and research, do you
lean more toward the extraterrestrial explanation as opposed to an
alternative explanation.

Speaker 4 (56:25):
I mean, I've been looking through this for so many
years now, and I think I talked to around one
thoy five hundred witnesses or something like that. And to
say that this is aliens visiting us from other planets,
it's the easy way out. If you do that, if
you believe that, you have to discard so many strange observations.

(56:48):
So to me, I see no simple explanation the UFOs.
I think there may be several explanations. And to say
that you know that be are visited, but aliens, I
think that is to go too far. We are still
in the process of trying to understand what is really happening.

(57:12):
And I mean I met people who have seen so
strange things that I don't understand why an alien should
do things like that. It's a mystery, and to me,
it's the most interesting mystery you can spend your free
time investigating. So I done this since Iety seventy four,

(57:34):
which of course is crazy in many ways. But I
know more today than I did at that point. I
know more about what people can misinterpret, and that is
really what I think some investigators lack to deal with

(57:56):
finding solutions, not only but in their own theories forward
and trying to prove something. I'm not into this to
prove anything. My only driving force is to know what
is really happening, what every single case can mean. We
take the witnesses very seriously. I mean, they have been

(58:20):
exposed to something that have scared them, made a difference
and maybe changed their life, and that you must respect.
But they must also respect that we may conclude something
different from what they believe in from the beginning. So
we are not into this to try to persuade people

(58:42):
to believe in what we have been accomplished. To have
been able to accomplish. We are just doing our job
and people may believe whatever they want.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
How do you stay objective in such a speculative field.

Speaker 4 (59:00):
Yeah, I think that the answer is that time a journalist.
From the beginning, I've always been curious. I've never been
into this for proving something. Was born curious and I'm
still curious after all those years, and staying your objective
is much more fun. It gives you an opportunity to

(59:22):
look on those strange things in ways that you cannot
do if you have an ax to grind. It's very
hard to teach people to do this, but we have
this feel investigation trainee course since the early middle of
the nineteen seventies. I've been heading this for thirty years.

(59:46):
We are trying to learn to our feel investigators to
do things the objective way. So we have a long
tradition here in Sweden to doing you have for investigations
that way. It's our mood, is OPERENDI really.

Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
Looking toward the future of UFO research, what role do
you feel AI in advanced sensors play in the future investigations.

Speaker 4 (01:00:14):
I think AI will be a very good tool when
you are to go through thousands and thousands and thousands
of pages trying to find similarities, trying to find things
that can lead to new questions maybe answers as well.

(01:00:35):
So AI will be a powerful tool in that way.
It's also a very powerful tool for people who want
to fake things and to want to make things more
problematic for us researchers. But that said, if you see
a strange film on the internet, AI produced or whatever,

(01:00:57):
the important thing is not just to look at the film,
is to meet with the guy who took the film
and to see if his story sticks with the film.
That has always been what you for Sweden has done,
not looking and believing, but finding the people, the guy,

(01:01:20):
the people who took the film or the picture who
gave the story, and see if we can through him
find the solution. So I never look at YouTube films
or things like that. I don't spend my times on
the internet. I spend my time meeting real people doing real,

(01:01:41):
real work with the witnesses.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
Yeah, I can follow you there. My Facebook experience has
been stay in touch with family that are distanced, and
just about ignore everything else you read art see.

Speaker 4 (01:01:58):
Yeah, I think that's a good way you can look
at those cute the cat videos and you know they
are AI produced, but you like them anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
That's my dogar.

Speaker 4 (01:02:10):
Maybe dog videos in your case told me you had
a husky.

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
Yeah. Do you think we're closer than ever to an answer?
Are we just asking more questions more questions?

Speaker 4 (01:02:26):
I don't think us those I have one single solution.
I think there are many solutions, many things to ponder about,
many stones to look underneath. So no, I'm not seeing
a disclosure coming. People are waiting for other people to

(01:02:47):
do their work, and all that waiting for the Pentagon
or the American authorities to do the work for them
telling them this is it. I'm not seeing that coming.
It's been said for forty fifty years. I've been around
so many so long time. I see this happening many

(01:03:07):
times during the history. So yeah, we will see more
interesting films, hear more interesting stories from fighter pilots or whatever.
We will be more inclined to understand that this is
really something happening, that's for sure. But I'm not only

(01:03:28):
my breath either. I don't think we will have the
answer in a week, a year, or maybe even ten years.
Maybe some parts of the answer.

Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
Yeah, I agree with you. If you had someone that
was wanting to get into investigations in this field, do
you have any advice to give them?

Speaker 4 (01:03:49):
Absolutely? Do not read only you ful books. Do not
spend your time on the internet. Try to read science books,
try to read books about the human mind. Trying to
read things that you can have an advantage with. When

(01:04:10):
you're meeting people who tell their stories, try to be
a good guy. Try to be an investigator, not the
guy who will prove something, and try to stay objective
and curious all the time. And because the world is
not fully understood, there are so many things out there

(01:04:32):
that we don't understand. But the only the best way
to understand the world is to use the tools or science,
and I think that is the way forward.

Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
Yeah, what would proof actually look like for you?

Speaker 4 (01:04:47):
Yeah, that's a good question, very very good question. I
mean the ultimate proof is, of course hardware that can
be investigated. And you can see that this couldn't be
understood in any way that we understand our world today.
That will prove that it's something very strange happening. But

(01:05:11):
I think if this phenomena is really something connected to
this world of ours and everything in it is like
our world. It's very hard to point to anything there
that should disclose something new to us, something that we

(01:05:31):
don't understand. It could be something really much connected to
us and to our earth. It's very hard to tell
what the real proof will be because we will always
be questioned always. I think the won't proof people are
looking for. Of course, so they've been landing on the
White House loan, then you have proved that we are

(01:05:53):
not alone in the universe. And I don't think we have.
I don't think we are alone in the universe. I
think there are the civilizations out there. It's a very
big universe. Maybe some of the them are living in
the same timeframe as we are. Maybe we can get
in contact with them someday. Maybe maybe they are here.

(01:06:17):
I'm not sure. So yeah, I'm not really sure what
proof is that will be tested at that point when
someone said, somebody says says that here, here's the proof,
then we take a look at it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
Yeah, my proof, they need to land in my front yard.
And of course if they ask, if they asked me
to take them to my leader, I'm going to say,
I'm not sure that's a good idea.

Speaker 4 (01:06:43):
I think you should talk with them if you can
and see if they have anything nice to learn you
to teach you.

Speaker 1 (01:06:54):
Yeah, I've got a few quick fire questions for you here.
Have you ever seen something that you could not explain?

Speaker 4 (01:07:03):
Yeah, it's a quick question, but it's a long answer.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
Okay, ten minutes, that's fine, go for it.

Speaker 4 (01:07:11):
Yeah, I mean. It was November the fifth, nineteen ninety five.
I was out traveling with my wife in the car
in the middle of the night, because we were heading
back to our house here in the outskirts of Stockholm
after a party. I was driving and she was sitting
beside me, and we were entering the community here and

(01:07:37):
the two guys were standing at the bus stop. One
of the guys were pointing up in the sky and
the other was looking at something that he was pointing at.
So I asked my wife, can you take a look
and see what are you looking at? So she bent
forward and really tried to see, but she said, no,
it's only stars. It's a fantastic evening, which we knew.

(01:07:58):
It was a crystal clear evening. Really it was diamonds
in the sky, and so we continued because we were
only a couple of blocks from our house. And I
bought my car in the garage and we went out
from the garage and I thought, now we'll take a
look at the heavens and I we probably as an astronomer,

(01:08:19):
amateur astronomer, I will see what they were looking at,
probably a bright star or maybe a planet. So we
were starting scanning the sky. She was standing two meters
from me to jarge from me, Annali and I was
looking up at the Jim and I constellation with castor

(01:08:40):
and pollocks, very bright stars, and suddenly, out of nowhere,
out of the blackness, three illuminated glass signs appeared. They
were just there flying, and my wife saw them immediately.
I screamed something, but she's all them immediately, and we're

(01:09:01):
quite big, and there was flying. They were flying over us,
and they were like glued to something invisible because they
were not flapping. They were flying in a strict formation,
those plus signs, and flying over us and over the
rooftop of our house. We ran around the corner and
we saw them flying over our neighbor's house and vanishing

(01:09:24):
in the distance. And I told Anniie, don't say anything.
We go inside. Here now here, here's a report form,
here's a pen. You are sitting in the kitchen, I
am sitting in another room. You were writing, drawing, telling
what you saw. And after half an hour we met

(01:09:47):
in the middle of the night, compared notes, compared what
we have been drawing, and it was exactly the same.
She was a better drawer than me. And after that
I put an investigator into of this and he was
trying to find an explanation, but he never got as
far as finding that. So that is that is what

(01:10:11):
I saw, and it's a very very strange thing, and
I'm glad we were too.

Speaker 1 (01:10:15):
Do you believe we are being visited right now?

Speaker 3 (01:10:18):
No?

Speaker 4 (01:10:18):
I'm not sure. Yeah, maybe you can say in a
way something is flying there that we are not really
sure of visited. I mean, I mean I meet people
that are still meeting gnomes and elves and things like that.
Are they visitors? Maybe they're just here. Maybe they're part

(01:10:43):
of what we are, part of what the earth is.
I'm not sure. Really, I don't have that answer. YEA,
something strange is happening. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:55):
Is there a case that you were told not to pursue?

Speaker 4 (01:10:59):
No, never happened. I investigated so many military cases and
with policemen and security police, and so I've never been
told to drop anything. I've never been told to shut
up or not publish. No.

Speaker 1 (01:11:19):
All right, last quick fire besides me, what keeps you
up at night about this topic?

Speaker 4 (01:11:25):
Yeah, it should be you then, of course. Uh. I
think what keeps me awake? It's the enigma the meetings
I had with so many many witnesses that I have
encountered so strange things that I feel that this is

(01:11:47):
really something not in their minds, but hardware that is
strange to me and that can keep me keep me awake.

Speaker 1 (01:11:59):
That what's about all the questions I had for you
or any other topics you would like to bring up
and discuss.

Speaker 4 (01:12:05):
I think we covered quite a big area. And what
is interesting I should say, is that this strange ghost
rocket thing is still going on. I mean I went
to Norway just a year ago meeting with people who
have seen this ghost rocket landed on the lake Vanishing.

(01:12:28):
We had equipment, we couldn't find it. And the big
the good cases, every good case happens in July around
eleven twelve, maybe one o'clock in broad daylight. Many witnesses,
always a lake and suddenly they are just gone. That

(01:12:52):
is strange.

Speaker 1 (01:12:54):
I want to give you the opportunity to tell the
listeners about your website you'd like to bring up and
any publications you've written that you would like to in
the know about.

Speaker 4 (01:13:04):
Yeah, I mean, we have two websites. One is for
you for Sweden at UFO dot s and the other
one is for the Archive for the Unexplained. Got a
f you dot And if you do, you can also
find downloads for free magazines articles tens of thousands that

(01:13:29):
we have clear with copyright owners, so there is for
everyone to take a look and to read and also
to report, of course, but we only work with Swedish cases.
So I mean, if you're an American listener, you should
report a new phone. That's the best way to do it.

(01:13:50):
But I've written quite a lot of books, but most
of them are in Swedish. I co wrote the book
called Government and UFOs a couple of years ago in English,
and I'm working on a translation of one of my
Swedish UFO books. I also wrote a book in English

(01:14:12):
about the archives. It's called The Fives of the Unexplained,
and you clary can read about a few. But most
of my stuff is in Swedish. Sorry to say.

Speaker 1 (01:14:24):
Well, there's always Google translators that they can put them into,
and because I think it's important that readers also read
about stuff that's taking place in other countries. Kind of
broadens our horizons besides just dealing with our local areas.

Speaker 4 (01:14:41):
Yeah, I agree with you. And now the sun is
coming up here.

Speaker 1 (01:14:46):
Oh my goodness, I need to let you go so
you can get a little rest before you have to
continue your day.

Speaker 4 (01:14:52):
Sir.

Speaker 1 (01:14:52):
It's been an honor having you here. And if you
ever run across anything you'd like to bring to the public,
give me a ring and we'll get you back the air.

Speaker 4 (01:15:01):
Thank you, Carl. He's been a pleasure talking away a
couple of hours in the middle of the night. So
we wish your good luck with your show. And yeah,
you're doing good, great work.

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
Thank you sir, and you have a good one and
look forward to speak to you again tonight. As the
signal fades into the static and the hour grows late,
we paused the broadcast for a moment of remembrance. We
take a moment to recognize a voice that traveled far
beyond the ordinary. David Wilcock, an author, lecturer, and researcher,

(01:15:38):
David spent years exploring the deeper intersections of science, consciousness,
and ancient history. Through work such as the Source Field
Investigations and the Synchronicity Key. He presented ideas about energy fields, time,
and the hidden patterns he believed might shape our reality.
His work, often brought together with themes of quantum physics,

(01:16:01):
ancient civilizations, and human consciousness, encouraged audiences to question the
boundaries of what is known and what is still being discovered.
In a world where questions often outnumber answers, he chose
to lean into the unknown to explore ideas at the
edges of science and mystery alike, Whether met with agreement, skepticism,

(01:16:26):
or curiosity, his voice became part of the broader conversation
about consciousness and possibilities. Tonight, we acknowledge that his voice
has gone quiet, and yet the questions remain. Voices, like kids,
leave behind more than words, They leave behind echoes, echoes
that continue to move through late night conversations, through curious minds,

(01:16:50):
through those still willing to ask, what if so. Wherever
you are tonight, under the city lights or open sky,
take moment of reflection, keep looking up, keep questioning, keep
listening because in the silence he leaves behind the search
for understanding continues. Thanks to everyone who joined in tonight,

(01:17:14):
we look forward to having your all back next week.
Our guest next week will be doctor Lourie Nadelle. Laurie
is a psychotherapist and consultant specializing in PTSD and trauma.
Lourie has been researching six sense phenomenon since the nineteen eighties.
Author of the four time bestseller six Cents Unlocking Your

(01:17:36):
Ultimate Mind Power. She has studied with Shamans, mediums and
veterans of the Pentagon's Secret Remote viewing program. I think
Laurie is going to be a great guest and I
look forward to having her on next week. For the
late Art Bell Joshua was Stark. Josh cheers, and Lady Marie.

(01:17:56):
I'm Carl Richardson and you've been listening to Midnight for
Let's See Radio. Until next time, continue to explore the
Young now.

Speaker 4 (01:18:06):
H m hmm B the boo