October 19, 2025 • 65 mins
Topic: The Smurl Haunting/Paranormal
Maxim W. Furek is an author and researcher whose work spans psychology, addictions, music journalism, and paranormal culture. His investigations into folklore, true crime, and America’s “high strangeness” have been featured across print and digital media, with a special focus on the Pennsylvania coal fields—what he has called the Coal Region Hoodoo.His academic background includes a Master’s degree in Communications from Bloomsburg University and a Bachelor’s degree in Psychology from Aquinas College. Drawing on these disciplines, Maxim examines the psychological and sociocultural currents behind UFOs, cryptids, hauntings, demonology, music scenes, and media mythmaking.Beyond the paranormal, Maxim is also known for documenting Pennsylvania music history and the rise of AOR bands throughout the 1970s–80s, as well as for commentary on Generation X culture, grunge, and the darker side of fame.Website: https://www.maximfurek.com/
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/midnight-frequency-radio--6625891/support.
Maxim W. Furek is an author and researcher whose work spans psychology, addictions, music journalism, and paranormal culture. His investigations into folklore, true crime, and America’s “high strangeness” have been featured across print and digital media, with a special focus on the Pennsylvania coal fields—what he has called the Coal Region Hoodoo.His academic background includes a Master’s degree in Communications from Bloomsburg University and a Bachelor’s degree in Psychology from Aquinas College. Drawing on these disciplines, Maxim examines the psychological and sociocultural currents behind UFOs, cryptids, hauntings, demonology, music scenes, and media mythmaking.Beyond the paranormal, Maxim is also known for documenting Pennsylvania music history and the rise of AOR bands throughout the 1970s–80s, as well as for commentary on Generation X culture, grunge, and the darker side of fame.Website: https://www.maximfurek.com/
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/midnight-frequency-radio--6625891/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
From the Ozark Foothills of northeast Arkansas. I'm Carl Richardson
and this is Midnight Fregency Radio. Our guest this evening
is Maxim Furrick. Mister Furick is an author and researcher
whose work spans psychology, addictions, music journalism, and paranormal culture.
His investigations in the folklore true crime in America's high
(00:51):
strangest have been featured across print and digital media, with
a special focus on the Pennsylvania coalfields with what he
calls the whole Region Hoodoo. His academic background includes a
master's degree in communications from Bloomberg University and a bachelor's
degree in psychology from Aquinas College. Drawing on these disciplines,
(01:14):
Maxim examines the psychological and sociocultural currents behind UFOs, cryptids, hauntings, demonology,
music scenes, and media myth making. Beyond the paranormal, Maxim
is also known for documenting the Pennsylvania music history and
the rise of aar bands through the nineteen seventies and eighties,
(01:35):
as well as for commentary on generation xculture, grunge, and
the darker side of fame. Good Evening, mister Ferrick and
welcome to Midnight Frequency Radio.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Thank you so much, Carl, and thank you for that
wonderful intro that was almost like war and peace, but
thank you you did a great job with that, and
thank you so much for the invitation for to Midnight Frequency.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Well, it's an honor to have you here. And I
guess the first question is how did you get involved
in the paranormal field with all the other things you
had in the fire?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, well it was basically a fluke. I mean, you know,
I don't know want word you want to put on it.
But I never went looking for the paranormal. I had
been operating as a rock journalist for a number of years.
I had a number of books published, and I was
I consider myself a successful rock journalist. And what I
(02:29):
mean by that is taking a look at rock music,
you know, as a vehicle for that would transform society,
you know, and uplift us and give us hope and
all that. So I looked at music through a sociological
lens and wrote a couple of books. But in nine
years ago, exactly twenty sixteen, I wrote a book on
(02:50):
the Shepton about the Shepton mining disaster of nineteen sixty three,
that took place in northeastern Pennsylvania, and it was probably
the most bizarre mining event certainly that that I've researched.
But Shepton had elements of out of body experiences, near
death experiences, and after life experiences, plus uh, visions of
(03:15):
aliens and guardian angels and dead pope and everything else.
So that was nine years ago, and the Shepton Mythology,
my first paranormal book, opened up the doors to the paranormal,
and I was invited to expos and conferences and podcasts
and it just took off from there and I can't
(03:39):
I you know, again, it wasn't a demographic that I
was looking for, it wasn't even a topic that I
was looking for, but it sort of found me. And
I just love, you know, uh, you know, exploring the
realm of the paranormal. It's just the most fast, fascinating
and exciting genre that's out there, and uh, you know,
(04:00):
I'm just hoping that I could make a contribution to it,
to that to that genre.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
I think of the most influential people that you've met
over your journey into paranormal.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Well, certainly Edid, Lorraine Warren and I talk about my
relationship with Edind Lorraine in my book The Schmurrow Haunting,
when Edid Lorraine came to town, and that's a similar
theme as Conjuring Last writes, you know that is purportedly
about the West Pittston Schmurrow Haunting. Uh, there's is the
(04:30):
movie was fictionalized. I mean, there was very little that
was accurate there. You know, it was a horror movie.
It was. It was a fictional horror movie based on
the West Pittston, Pennsylvania. Uh, you know, uh event and uh,
but it was just, you know, an a motion picture
for entertainment. My book to Schmarrol Haunting. You know, if
(04:51):
you want to know about what happened, I mean, the
truth behind the conjuring, then read my book because it goes,
you know, to the schmurrohuning and beyond. But certainly Edda
Lorraine Warren were up there. This past summer, I had
an opportunity to meet Dan Rivera, who was the chief
handler for Annabelle. And that was Friday, July the eleventh,
(05:14):
to twenty twenty five. I met Dan Rivera and Ngetti's
Brick at the Gettysburg Orphanage. We had agreed to do
a phone interview on Monday, July the fourteenth, and Dan
passed away the previous night. He passed away on Sunday
the thirteenth, again allegedly from natural causes, you know, if
(05:38):
you want to believe that. But the people in the
paranormal community that I talked to say, no, there's no
such thing as a coincidence. No, take a look at
all the things that happened in New Orleans surrounding the
Annabelle tour, the Devils on the Run tour, and so
there's a lot of people that are saying there's something
(05:59):
else set play here. Don't use the word coincidence. You
know there was there. There were a lot of people,
including the psychic Vincent Sisters and people like Chris McKenna,
Eden Lorrain's god God, so that believe that that demonic
forces had infested the annabel doll and that may have
(06:22):
led to the death of Dan Rivera. So again it's controversial.
You know, people are aligning up. Take your pick, pick
your sides. I don't care. I think uh Annabel had
something to do with it, and that's what I write
about in my book The Schmerhaunting. But certainly edam the
Rain Warren were at one at the top of the list.
(06:42):
I was friends with Timothy Green Beckley, mister Ufo, and
he was a bit of a mentor to me early on.
And also a guy named doctor Frederick santi He was
a white witch. He was the high priest for the
Covenant the Kata, and he was a friend of mine.
(07:02):
He was my physician, and his coven located in northeastern
Pennsylvania in wal Wallapen, was sanctioned. It was initiated by
Sybil Leak, the world's most famous witch. And what's interesting, Karl,
is that Sybil Leak introduced witchcraft to the world with
(07:26):
her books and with her presence and her personality, as
Edie Lorraine Warren introduced demonology to the world through their
exploits and their investigations and their books. So both Sybil
Leak and Edi Lorraine Warrem are certainly important players in
(07:47):
the realm of demonology, and they are in the realm
of the paranormal, and they certainly deserve, you know, their place,
their chapter in the Great Book of the Paranormal. So
I was fortunate to have been friends with doctor Santee,
who taught me much about you know, the the Wicca
(08:08):
Craft and the Left and Right pathways, and also to
have been friends with Edi Lorraine Warren, who I met
in nineteen eighty eight. They were on a fifteen city
book tour for a book called The Haunted. So they
were you know, I stayed in touch with them over
the years, and they were just great people. I mean
(08:30):
they treated me very well and mentored me. So that
was Edwid Lorraine. And I dedicate my book to Schmerle
Haunting to Edie Lorraine.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Now Judy Warren wasn't even involved with the Smurles at all.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Was she. No, she wasn't. But you know, if you
watch The Conjuring Last Rites, it was all about Judy
Warren and the demons were after her and all that
not true. You know. The only thing that the only
thing that the Conjuring Lasts got correct. And I could
tell you this for a fact because I was there.
I mean, wes Pittston is in my backyard. It was
(09:07):
maybe thirty minutes away from where I live in Luizeran County, Pennsylvania.
So I was going up there frequently during this frenzy.
You know, it was all over the newspapers, in the radio,
and I would go up there and talk to the
neighbors and take pictures. I never knocked on the door
of the Schmules. They were under attack. They were under
assault by demonic forces, by neighbors that just believed that
(09:31):
they were in it for the money, didn't believe them,
and also by a media, a paparazzi that was just voracious.
They were rapacious. They the schmerl Jack and Janet Schmule
talked about the hundreds of media people that would be
calling her, asking from all over the world, international reporters,
(09:54):
asking for an exclusive interview. They were being harassed. Uh,
you know, it was really a sad situation. But like
I said, the only realism that conjuring last Rites had
was the frenzy that was happening there, the media frenzy
on Chase Street in West Pitston, Pennsylvania. They got that right,
(10:17):
and that was true. It was happening, you know.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Like like they said, Yeah, were there any similarities between
the Smow haunting and Amityville.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Yeah, I mean all these haunted houses, all these you know,
examples of poltergeist activities pretty much start up with the
same template. You know, the smells, the horrible smells, the grunts,
you know. I mean they have their variations, sometimes levitations
(10:47):
in both Amityville and Shmrow House rooms that will dip
to maybe thirty forty degrees, even though those rooms are
connected to furnaces into heating systems. So you know, that
happened there at the at the Schmurle haunting. The only difference,
I think there's some that's a great question, you know,
(11:08):
But I compare the Schmurrow Haunting with Anityville, the Hensdale
House and the Wells House. They take a look at
these other haunted houses, these other uh demonically possessed or
infested houses, and I compare them to the Schmurrow House.
A couple of things are interesting that the Anityville horror
(11:30):
is something that continues to shock us and repulses. It's
sort of like a modern day canaan Abel. No one
can believe that this young man, this twenty three year
old Butch de Fiel, would take a rifle and then
kill his mother, his father, his two sisters, and his
two brothers. He was a rich kid, a wealthy kid.
(11:52):
He walked around with thousands of dollars in his pocket.
He had everything that you know, you know, a teenager
could one. I mean all the materialistic pleasures and and everything.
But what's interesting with Butch the Field was he claimed
that he was possessed by a demon. And the prosecution
(12:14):
and there's a great book called High Hopes. That was
the name that they named this place in Amityville before
the Fields bought it. It's called High Hopes. But but
de Field claimed that he was possessed by a demon.
The prosecution had to prove that he wasn't possessed by demon,
(12:34):
but that he was a personality disorder, that he has
had no empathy for his fellow humans, and also he
had a need for immediate gratification. So this is what
they had to go and conduct, have to what played
out in the courtroom, which is so interesting. I mean,
it was one of the cases. I mean, there's been
(12:55):
several others, but with Amityville, they had to prove that
it was not demonic possession that made this young man,
this twenty three year old young man kill his family.
So that was and we can't let that go. And
if you were to google, if your listeners were to
google Amityville, you're gonna find countless books and motion pictures
(13:17):
about Amnityville, just because it resonates. It's just like one
of the most despicable, you know, stories that we've heard.
But it's also a cottage industry. I mean, people are
making money by talking about Amityville. So that's one thing.
The other thing I'm going to say about the Schmurrol Haunting.
(13:39):
What makes the Schmurle the Schmurrow House so unique is
the level the intensity of violence that we found at
the Schmurrow House in the eighties.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
And.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Jack Schmerrol claimed that he was raped by a female
demon a suckubus, and his wife claimed that she was
molested by an entity. They did show some of this.
They showed Jack in the movie Conjuring Last Rights. They
showed Jack uh levitating and and and being molested by
by something. So that came close to to the to
(14:16):
to being factual. But all of the other things that
I saw, and I really need to see Conjuring Last
Rites again just to look for some other things. But
you know, but it was not you know, it wasn't authentic,
and it really I mean, I enjoy the Conjuring franchise,
and I've seen all those movies, you know, numerous times,
but it just wasn't that good as far as you know,
(14:39):
being a scary horror movie. Uh, if your listeners are
looking for something that's good, I mean, go see Sinners,
go see Bringer Back, go see weapon or weapons. Uh,
those are wonderfully made motion pictures. And uh, you know,
and and horror you know are done well is an
(15:01):
art form, and certainly Conjuring last Writes, was not an
art form. It was just part of the two point
seven billion dollar net that the Conjuring you know, universe,
the multiverse has raked in. So it's a very successful franchise.
And it just and I would ask you this, Carl,
why do you suppose Conjuring is so successful? I mean,
(15:24):
what makes it tech? What's what's the draw, what's the attraction?
I mean, you're you're involved in all of this this stuff.
Why would what would you be what's your your gut
feeling about that?
Speaker 1 (15:33):
I don't know. I mean, you know, like you said,
a lot of it's not even real in that movie.
And I was shaking my head the whole time I
was watching it the other day. Yeah, but I guess
some of the people like that and believe what's being
put out there that haven't read the books that tell
the true story. And everything.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah, huh yeah, I you know, I would think that
people are watching it for the entertainment value, not for
the it's not for the education, no value, you know,
because there's there's not too much there.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
So yeah, I don't think I could sit through it again. Yeah, yeah,
off topic. How do you sleep with that painting behind
you in the house?
Speaker 2 (16:15):
That's yeah, that's the nun. And I'll tell you what.
When I do my presentations, I bring along the nun.
And also hang on, let me get up and show
you this, all right?
Speaker 1 (16:25):
And also a little little Ani doll.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Yeah, yes, little annabel And this is exactly what the
Annabelle Dell looked like. You know when I went you know,
Raggedy am when I went down to Gettysburg in July.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Yeah, the Conjuring movies that had that doll that they had,
I guess they just did it for effect because it
wasn't real.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yeah, correct. And then if you watch the Conjuring movies, Annabelle,
they the raggedy an al started to get more demonic looking,
and one reason was because they had to make it
scarier because this is very scary. But also I believe
part of it was copyright infringement. Whoever makes these raggedy
ann dolls, you know, probably was going to go and
(17:07):
sue them for whatever. So I think they backed off
on that and just made Annabel look different. But I'll
say this. When I was in Gettysburg, Annabel was in
this five foot wooden structure like a cage. It had
the Lord's Prayer affixed to the back. It had three
(17:29):
crosses for the Father son of the Holy Ghost. It
was infused with holy water and holy oil, and there
was a window there that was taken from a consecrated church,
but that was they kept Annabel in that in there
(17:49):
and supposedly there was supposed to be a priest there
at all times, father Bob. But I'll tell you this.
You know, no matter what the New England Society for
Psychic Research says, and they were the ones who took
Annabell on the road, there was no Father Bob there
on Friday, July the eleventh, when I was there. Father
Bob allegedly was out of country, so it's possible that
(18:12):
he wasn't even there for the other two days. Father
Bob wasn't there in Gettysburg. But I'll tell you who
was one two hundred and forty other people, including myself
and my wife, paying forty dollars each for the privilege
of seeing this raggedy ann doll that's Carl. That's close
(18:32):
to fifty thousand dollars in Gettysburg alone. Wow, fifty k.
And forget about New Orleans, West Virginia, San Antonio and
all the other places that they that they took. The
New England Psychic Society took Annabel. They were making money.
They were probably making fifty thousand, give or take, you know,
(18:53):
each place they went. Despite the fact that Lorraine Warren
wanted annabelt the state and Rowe Connecticut at the at
the Warren's Occult Museum and the uh, their son in law,
who's a Tony Spear, I believe, was part of the
group that decided to take Annabel on the road. And
(19:15):
UH have to live with the fact that, I mean,
who knows what what the real reason is the real
cause of Dan Rivera's death. But you know, if you
if you are you know, somewhat interested, if you're a
researcher of the of the of the paranormal, you have
to consider the fact that there were demonic energies from
(19:38):
from annabel And if you believe in a realm of
the demonology, we know that demonic forces can infest people
places or things like the Schmule house or the Schmurle
the SROs themselves, so uh, you know, uh, the you know,
the the death of Dan Rivera is unfortunate. I don't
(20:01):
think that anybody's celebrating his death. I think we're all
mourning it. But I think we need to just you know,
you know, to keep our voices loud saying be careful.
And they're taking Annabelle out on the road again of
course again, you know, and I just think this is
this is horrible, and you know, and again, it's all
about making money. It's not about anything else. It's not
(20:24):
about educating us or warning us about the realm of demonology.
So yes, you know, but anyway, I don't mean to
pontificate and rant, but it makes me angry that the
incentive for this is is money and nothing else.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Yeah, well, I understand where you're coming from. We're going
about twenty three after the hour. I'm going to go
ahead and run my first break, sure, and if you
need to refresh your water or coffee, and it's about
a five minute and twenty second break good.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Let me okay, We'll keep my tea. Okay, very good.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Okay, thanks sir.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
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Speaker 1 (26:15):
Hi, welcome back to Midnight Frequency Radio and our guests
Maxim Furich, did warrant share anything with you in their
personal experience with demonic possession?
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Yeah, pretty much. That's what we talked about. Like I said,
I had met them for the first time in nineteen
eighty eight. They were embarking on a fifteen city tour
to promote the book The Haunted, And that was interesting
because The Haunted was, you know, it was about the
schmurrole haunting there in West Piston. It was. It was
(26:46):
written by a guy named Robert Kerran c U R
R A N. And he was an award winning journalist
up in northeastern Pennsylvania. It was co written by Jack
and Janet Schmurr and also by Ed and Lorraine Warren,
but their contributions to the book I think were minimal
(27:06):
and also scattered. Jack and Janet schmur were not journalists.
They weren't writers. They were people that were being terrorized.
And so you know, what they gave Robert Current to
work with. It was just like basic text. You could
tell that the book was disjointed because there were like
separate parts of it. And by the same token, Ed
(27:29):
and the Rain were not writers. You know, all the books,
the five, six, seven books that were attributed to the
Warrens were ghost written by other people. So they also
weren't writers. But anyway, when I met them in nineteen
eighty eight, they were embarking on this fifteen city tour
to promote The Haunted, and I took pictures with them
(27:51):
that are in the schmil Haunting the book. And also
I talked to Ed and Lorraine about how they would
go and do battle with these demons, how they would
approach this, you know, And all of this was from
according to the warrants. From a Christian standpoint, they were
the warrants were devout Catholics, and they would use holy
(28:14):
water and the crucifix ed would call upon uh he
to do battle. He would uh get into the form
the spirit of Jesus Christ, Lord and Savior, Saint Michael
the Archangel and also Padre Peel, and he would invoke
their spirit to do battle with these with these demons.
(28:35):
He was a an exorcist, I think, a self taught uh,
demonologists and exorcists. But you know, even with what they
did at the Schmerl Haunting, it was, you know's efforts
weren't effective. He wasn't able to drive out the demons.
And they brought in a number of other priests, you know,
the priests from northeastern Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania came there and house sat,
(29:01):
they did blessings, they did exorcisms. You know, every diocese
has an exorcist in the diocese. Nothing was working, so
Da Lorraine brought in Father McKenna, Robert McKenna, who was
what's called a rogue priest. And McKenna was there at
the schmowhunting three times. He performed three exorcisms and could
(29:25):
not chase out the demon. So they at the final result,
the final uh, you know, gasp. The Bishop of Scranton,
h Bishop Timblin, brought in Father Alphonse tree Bolt and
he came in from down from New York State and
Saint Bonaventure University, and Father tree Bolt, who is the
(29:48):
real hero, the real hero of the story and was
not included in the book The Haunted, or the motion
picture or Conjuring last Rites. And that's that's the real
right there. But he was the one who performed four exorcisms,
father tree Bolt, and he finally was able to cast
out the demon. Now, I do want to say this
(30:11):
about Father Treebolt. He was successful with the Schmarrol Haunting,
but not with the Hinsdale House. And he had gone
to the Hinsdale House in New York and tried to
cleanse that house, the very evil house, and he was
not able to. He told the people living there, he said,
leave immediately, take your belongings, don't tell anyone where you're going,
(30:33):
and just leave. And Father Treeball said that this place,
the Hinsdale House, was a portal to hell. It was
a gateway to hell. There was nothing good that could
happen there. And what's interesting in this place is in
western Pennsylvania. The owner, Now, you could spend the night
there at the Hinsdale House for a fee. It's almost
(30:56):
like a bed and breakfast. And you know, I can't
think of a more or foolish thing for anybody to do.
I certainly would not do that. And I would warn
people about, you know, a venture like that. So that's
the Hensdale House in western Pennsylvania. That was the one
that Father tree Boat was not able to go and cleanse.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
You're one of the last paranormal research to speak with
Dan Rivera before he died.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Yeah, I know. And what do you think about that?
Speaker 1 (31:27):
It's spooky?
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Yeah, yeah, I'll tell you. There's a war going on
right now, and you know, and I'm you know, I'm
really reaching a point where I'm really ready to start
to do battle, but I don't want to do that.
But I have a chapter in my book called the
Death of Dan Rivera, and we take a look at
Annabelle the Devil's on the Run tour. You know how
(31:52):
they took Annabelle in twenty twenty five out of Monroe,
Connecticut and took annabel on the road. Dan Rivera was
the chief annabel handler. He was a former Methodist guy,
and he converted to Catholicism and he was walking on clouds.
I mean, he professed his Christianity, his love of God,
his belief in God, all this, all these people there
(32:15):
with this New England psychic research and know the people
that I met in Gettysburg at the Orphanage. They all
were the same way. They believed that the power of
the devil is great, but the power of God is
even greater. And that was their theme, and that is
their their their mighty and this is the sword that
they that they willed. I met him on the July
(32:40):
the eleventh. We had a wonderful conversation. I got there
to the they invited me and I was at the
head of the line and had a chance to go
and Dan greeted me and we had a chance to
have a really good conversation. Go deep. I was telling
him about the book about the Schmerl Haunting that I
was researching, and we were and we started to talk
(33:00):
about Edda, the Rain, and about some of the things
pertaining to the Schmorhouse. Again. What happened was we agreed
to do a phone conversation, a phone interview on Monday,
July the fourteenth. This is when Dan Rivera was going
to go back to I'm not sure if he was
from Monroe, Connecticut or one of those towns around Monroe,
but he was going back there and we were going
(33:26):
to talk on Monday. And then I got a call
from a friend that said, did you hear about the
paranormal research researcher from Kettysburg that died? And I thought
it was one of the other gentlemen that I had
met and interacted with, And when I googled it here
it was Dan Rivera. I was shocked. I still am shocked.
(33:47):
And now we're having some of the people from the
New England group saying that some people are celebrating Dan's death,
some people are capitalizing and making money on his death,
and all this horrible, horrible stuff that isn't true. You know,
you know, this is only going to go so far
(34:09):
before you know, somebody takes starts to litigate. But you know,
Dan may have died because of demonic energies attributed to Annabelle,
and I would like this New England group of psychic
researchers to prove that it was only natural causes. I'd like,
you know, I'd like to see their accounting for that.
(34:32):
When Annabelle went to New Orleans through those two or
three days, there were three things that happened, and that
was all over the internet. And I think it was
May of twenty twenty five. There was a fire in
the plantation, the largest plantation in Louisiana, sugarcane plantation burned down,
the prison break eleven inmates from a New Orleans jail
(34:57):
broke out when during this same period when annabel was there.
And then also the house that belonged to the voodoo
queen Marie la fay uh was burned. So all of
that was attributed to uh the uh to Annabelle and
it didn't happen uh in Uh. It didn't happen in
(35:20):
in San Antonio or West Virginia, but had happened in
New Orleans. And then also the nine to one one
lines were tied up in Gettysburg. And this is pretty,
you know, pretty bizarre, but this is something that happened
after the fact. So you know, you could google Gettysburg, Orphanage,
Dan Rivera and there's just a million things that pop up.
(35:42):
It's just it's incredible. And uh but every podcast that
I'm on, the people say, well, how do you what
do you think caused his death? And I said that
I'm not sure, I don't know, but I think annabel
had something has something to do with it, and uh,
so that's that's my belief.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Yeah, one of your more fascinating chapters in this Marrow
Haunting talks about Pope John Paul the Second and his
exorcism college.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Can you elaborate some more on that.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Absolutely. Well, first of all, I start with the premise.
You know, with my book, you know, whether or not,
you know, there's a debate whether or not evil exists,
whether or not the devil exists. And so I am
of the belief that there is. The evil does exist.
It manifests in many different forms and shapes, and the
(36:37):
devil does exist. I think the devil is a great deceiver.
He or she is a decepter. You know, the devil
wants us to think that they don't exist, that it's
just a myth created by our parents, by our caregivers,
by the church, you know, to keep us in line.
If you don't go to church, the devil's going to
(36:57):
get you. If you don't say your prayers, you're going
to go to hell. I mean, you know, we've heard this,
you know, since we were kids. But I believe that
that evil does exist and the devil does exist. So
and so did Pope John Paul the Second. And that's
why what he did was he rewrote the right of
exorcism and that's our ite. After four hundred years he
(37:20):
rewrote it and updated it. He believed that evil exists
in modern times, and he organized a school of exorcism
where priests one hundred and thirty two priests from thirty
different countries came. I believe it was to the Vatican
to learn this medieval, ancient right of exorcism to cast
(37:46):
out these demons.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
This.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
I have a chapter so that is that's in my book,
and I talk about Pope John Paul the Second. But
I also have a chapter called the Apostles of Exorcism,
and one of them is Father Amorth. And Father Amworth
was the Vatican's exorcist. He did he completed over thousands
(38:10):
and thousands of exorcisms, and there was a motion picture
with Russell Crowe Crowe called the Pope's Exorcist. I have
seen that, yes, sir, and it's very well done. I
think the setting was in Spain and there was demonic
infestation there and so Russell Crowe had to go there
and do battle. But I mean it was really well
(38:32):
done and it was authentic. I mean I liked it.
Father Amorth said this though, when people show up and
claim that they are possessed by demons. The church has
to make a determination whether or not these people are
actually possessed by demons or if they are mentally ill.
(38:54):
And they have to determine whether or not they're schizophrenic,
or have bipolar or Turet syndrome or whatever. Father A.
Morth said that two percent of the people only are
the ones that are that are possessed, and these are
the ones that he deals with. I have a chapter
called the two Percent, and these are the you know again,
(39:14):
these are the cases. These are the infamous cases of
demonic possessions. Just a fascinating, fascinating topic. The I have
a chapter called the Apostles of Exorcism, and the first
one that I list is Jesus Christ of Nazareth. And
(39:37):
Jesus was the one who was able to cast out
the demons, and that's all over the New Testament. But
he was able to teach his apostles to also do
these do the right of exorcism if they did it
in Christ's name and in his spirit. And that was
the sort of the formula for casting out demons. And
(39:59):
this is what the exorses do today. They do it
in the in the name of Christ. And in his
in his spirit, and the power comes from a higher authority,
not from us, but from up above, from God. So
all things through God. So this is a you know,
a spiritual thing. It's a God thing. And I know
there's people out there that you know, are not believers,
(40:21):
but that's fine. I mean, I'm not trying to convince
anybody over to my side. I mean, I happen to believe,
you know, that there's a demonic forces out there, and
I try to keep my distance. You know, I've been
you know, I am being warned continuously by my friends,
you know, my uh born again uh fundamentalist uh and
(40:45):
evangelical Christian friends who just warned me not to get
too close to the flame. And I don't think I do.
I mean, I think I'm keeping my distance. I mean
I don't. I don't dance with the devil, and I
don't ask for favors from the devil, you know, I don't.
I'm very, very very I'm I'm apprehensive and I'm I'm cautious.
So you know, that's that's what I do. But but
(41:08):
the uh, the book, The Schmurrow Haunting. If you're interested
at all in the realm of demonology and the right
of exorcism and all of that. My book takes a
look at that, using the Schmurl Haunting sort of as
a pivot point, and then bouncing the Amityville Horror and
the Hinsdale House and the Wells House against that, comparing
(41:30):
and contrasting and looking at history's greatest exorcists and what
they did and what they were noted for, and looking
at movies like The Exorcists and uh, you know, you know,
Rosemary's Babies, things like that that brought that realm of
(41:50):
demonology into our published public awareness. And so as Hollywood
did that, Lorraine ed and Lorraine Warren were doing the
same thing through their lectures and their books. They were
the ambassadors of demonology. They educated us, and many people,
(42:10):
you know, disliked the Warrens for because of their success.
They were making five thousand dollars back in the day
when five thousand was a whole lot of money. But
they were making five thousand dollars a seminar, doing close
to one thousand, uh seminars on demonology on college campuses.
So they were making money, and they were, you know,
(42:33):
on talk shows all the time, and you know, and
so people use that, you know, say that because they
were capitalistic, and because they were successful capitalists that somehow
that taints, you know, their credibility and and it really doesn't.
I mean, they were you know, if the critics were
able to be as successful as a Rain warrant, then
they would be doing the same thing. Not everybody has
(42:55):
the talent, not everybody has gets the calling, and they did.
And again they were as significant ambassadors as was Sybil Leak,
you know, in her own in her own realm. So
edwa O, Rain Warren were important people, you know, in
(43:16):
the world of the paranormal.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
What are your thoughts about Jason Anson's nineteen seventy seven
non fiction book The Amityville Horr.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Yeah, I read that book, you know, when I was
writing The Shrom Honey. I read that book twice, and
I said, I also read High Hopes, which which was
really well done. It was it was a like a
legal thriller. But Jay Anston book wasn't that good. And
I say this because he wrote this listening to something
(43:48):
like I don't. I think it was forty eight hours
of tape from George and Kathy Lutz. And remember after
Ronnie the fail butchered after he murdered his family. Then
that house that High Hopes was up for sale and
George and Kathy lettscot it for eighty thousand dollars, which
was a real steal, you know, this beautiful mansion in
Long Island, in the ritzy part of the affluent part
(44:11):
of town. But they only stayed therefore, I think it
was twenty eight days, driven out by demons. And so
anyway they put on they tape recorded their accounts of that.
Jay Anston wrote about it, and The Amityville Horror became
a million seller. There was motion pictures and then follow
(44:33):
ups and prequels and everything else, and just amazing when
I was researching this, amazing how many books have been
written about Amityville. But the book was scattered because jay
Ansen didn't really have a whole lot to work with.
And then you know, there was one chapter towards the
end that I thought he really got it right. But
(44:53):
he was speaking in another tone, another cadence, another meter,
and I think that was his true voice. I think
the rest of the book was just based on, you know,
the tape recordings of George and Kathy Lutz, but certainly
just you know, a house that was possessed, the flies,
(45:14):
the uh, the talking pig that the little girl saw,
just all kinds of you know, bizarre things that you know,
almost a typical house with demonic infestation.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Yeah. Do you think George and Kathy Lets were telling
the truth? Are just trying to make money? Now?
Speaker 2 (45:31):
Well, I think they were telling the truth, But I
think they were also trying to make money. Uh, there
was money in this and Jay certainly Jay Anstin wrote
the book that sold millions, and then there was the
movie based on his book. So yeah, there was money
to be made, and I think they made some of it,
but I don't think that was their motivation. I think
that they were really terrorized. I think there was a
(45:52):
demonic infestation there. And again, you could believe them or not,
and a lot of people don't. I believe in the
the universal law of ninety You know, in any given situation,
you're gonna have thirty percent of the people that are
true believers. You're gonna have thirty percent of the people
that don't believe any of it, and then thirty percent
that could care less. They're just on the bias. You know,
(46:13):
they could be swayed either way. So you know, it's
just like Edi the Rain, but edam the Rain Warren.
It's not thirty thirty and thirty. It's more, you know,
a lot of people do not like Edin Lorraine Warren,
not just because of their success, but a lot of
people felt that they hid behind their Catholicism, that they
hid behind you know, the God and Christianity that you know,
(46:37):
that they made things up that they you know, exaggerated
and all of that. But you know, but I was,
you know, I consider myself their friends. And again they
certainly took their time with me and mentored me, and
I stayed in touch with them after nineteen eighty eight.
You know, I would call them up and I would
(46:57):
talk to Ed and ask them questions. Lorraine was a
pet lover, an animal lover. She had a pet rooster
that you could hear, and you know, it was really
kind of funny. But they were nice people, and I
think maybe I like to think that Ed saw maybe
a little bit of him in me, you know, my curiosity,
my energy, my you know, excitement, all that. I think.
(47:20):
But you know, but one of my fondest memories is
hanging out in July. I think it was on the
streets of jim Thorp, Pennsylvania, a very nice touristy town.
That's where they were doing their presentations and hanging out
with them on the sidewalk in the heat, summer heat,
talking about demonic possession and talking about the power of
(47:42):
God and the power of evil. And it was just like,
I wish I could go back in time, Carl and
you know, and ask them the same questions, but make
go deeper and further and you know, be more probing.
But that's one of my favorite memories. And I am
indeed blessed that I knew the Warrens, you know, and
(48:02):
and with the Schmurl Haunting, I mean I felt that
something was channeled through me to write this book. You know,
Wes Pittson is in my backyard, so I was there
all the time. I met Edain Moraine when they were
on their book tour for the Haunted, and then I
went down that tag Gettysburg and this year and met
Dan Rivera and which is a big part of the
(48:24):
sole thing. So I don't know, I mean, I was
put there. I mean, I don't think it was a
coincidence that you know that uh, you know that I
went to see Annabelle and met Dan just before he died.
And I don't think it was a coincidence that, you know,
that I happened to meet and became friends with Edite
Marine Warren. So but you know, I think that I
(48:45):
was meant to write this book and I'm qualified to
write it, and I and my book comes a hell
of a lot closer to the truth than conjuring last writes. Ever,
could you know the book is totally fictionalized, Like you indicated,
Judy Warren never stepped foot inside the the Schmurle house,
(49:06):
and neither did Tony Spira smera spear of her her husband,
you know, the son in law, so you know, so
that that part was just fictionalized. One thing that they
had in the in the movie that was interesting, Judy
Warren was there when Simon the Schmule's German shepherd was levitated,
(49:27):
and what really happened was down Schmule, who had to
be I don't know, I think maybe eighteen at the time,
I'm not sure, but watched the dog Simon levitate and
then it was flung across the room against the wall.
And the theories are plentiful, but either you know, either
she was hallucinating and didn't really see that, or that's
(49:50):
what she saw, or it was demonic forces that lifted
up Simon and levitated him. Or and this is the
interesting one, that Dawn Schmurr was manifesting some psychic kinetic energies.
And we know about these energies from Stephen King his
books like Carrie, Firestarter, The Shining. They talk about these
(50:16):
young people, typically female adolescents, that have these energies, these
these uh these uh psych these these psychic energies, and
they don't know how to go how to utilize them,
and there's a lot of anger and angst. And this
could have been what happened with the dog Simon that
it was uh Dawn that lifted that that Collie levitated
(50:39):
it and threw it across the uh the room. In
the movie it was Judy Warren. But again that's another
you know, just you know, never happened, another bit of fantasy.
They could have made that movie a lot better if
they would have had an interplay between the church you know,
uh not believing that the house was was infested versus
(51:02):
priest that believed that it was. I mean, that would
have made it for a better and more accurate story,
but they didn't, so I think that the conjuring last
writes was a bit of a letdown as far as
the storyline, you know, entertaining, yes, but not a very
good plot.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
Yes, sir, I'm on the lily ahead and run my
last break and then we can come back and close out.
Speaker 2 (51:42):
I can see lane back.
Speaker 5 (51:44):
You're sending this.
Speaker 4 (51:47):
Well, you do what you do, confess.
Speaker 3 (52:01):
In spring City, Pennsylvania, the former Penhurst State School and Hospital,
closed in nineteen eighty six, has become a magnet for
paranormal enthusiasts, haunted house tourism, and dark history tours. Once
a psychiatric facility with a troubled past spanning eight decades,
it now draws hundreds each year to explore what many
(52:24):
call one of America's most haunted asylums. One visitor, Steve Roberts,
admits he's uncertain about ghosts, but after joining a paranormal
gathering at Penhurst, he says the unnerving experiences made skepticism
harder to maintain. Others report shadowy figures, electromagnetic fluctuations, and
(52:46):
sudden cold spots in spaces now used for ghost hunts.
The site hosts par con events combining expert panels and
night investigations, as well as overnight tours that let thrillcyk
from four floors and underground tunnels after dark. The building's
legacy is steeped in allegations of neglect, poor conditions, and
(53:09):
mistreatment of mentally ill residents. Organizers aim to balance thrill
and respect. Daytime historic tours emphasize the institution's controversial medical practices,
while nighttime attractions lean into the supernatural. Recent changes include
collaborating with disability and mental health advocates to reshape how
(53:33):
the story is told. Today, Penhurst survives both as a
haunted attraction and a living museum. That's it for Dark
Matter News. Catch up with us on the Midnight Frequency
Facebook page from Memphis, Tennessee. I'm joshuas Dark. Join Carl
(53:56):
Richardson and Midnight Frequency This High. We unite at nine
to thirty Pacific twelve thirty Eastern for Ozark ghost Stories.
Call in and tell us about your experiences with the beyond.
That's right, ghost stories and paranormal experiences is only you
can tell them. Callin information will be posted at www
(54:17):
dot Midnight Frequency dot net. Join us and explore the
unknown if you dear.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
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(54:47):
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To get your CC Skywave SSB two, call us at
(55:10):
one eight hundred five two two eight eight six three
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Once again that c C R A n E dot com.
(55:52):
Welcome back to me night Frequents the radio and our
guest Maxim Furic, mister Fhiic. How do you think the
rest of the world views the world Horns.
Speaker 2 (56:00):
Yeah, I think that they have their critics, you know,
I talked about the A lot of people I think
are jealous because they were so financially successful and they
use that, you know as a as a means of
castigating them, which I just don't think is fair. But
the other thing, though, is that I think as Christians,
(56:22):
I think that Ed and Lorraine looked at the world
through a very black and white lens, and you know,
just a lens of good, either good or evil. And
it's something that you know, Pagans and Wickens don't adhere to.
Certainly Pagans that I know believe that that they that
(56:46):
there's demonic energies, there's dark energies around us, and that
we need to coexist with those energies. And it's sort
of like that Youngian shadow self, you know, so those
dark forces, those dark energies are out there, but you know,
they live amongst us, they live within us. You know,
we need to coexist with them, I mean, and you know,
(57:07):
look at ourselves. I mean, we're not all good and
we're not all evil. You know, we're a mix hopefully
of you know, more of one than the other. But anyway,
that was another thing that there's other the certainly Pagans
that I know are highly critical of it in the
rain Warren and other you know Christian demonologist you know,
(57:28):
just for the taking a all or nothing stance. So
you know, the world doesn't view them with a whole
lot of kindness and respect. And again, despite that, despite that,
the Conjuring franchise is the most successful horror franchise in history,
(57:53):
two point seven billion dollar net for those nine motion pictures,
which include you know, breakaway uh films like The Nun
and also uh the Breakaway like Annabel the Doll. And
there'll be more, they'll be prequels. And I believe Netflix
(58:13):
is having another uh uh Conjuring uh uh you know
series out there, So I think the Conjuring is going
to be around with us for a long time. And
my book, The Schmorrow Haunting, you know, which just seems
to uh, you know, to fit in there seamlessly. You know,
it's just uh, I mean, you know, we are timing
(58:35):
was right. Our book came out, Oh, I think it
was like three weeks before uh September fifth, when Conjuring
Last Rites came out, so we uh you know, beat
this out of the gate by quite a bit. And
uh but but again, you know, I tell people, you know,
if you want the true story about the Schmorrow House
and about the realm of demonology, read my book. It's
(58:59):
getting powerful reviews We've gotten reviews all over you know,
great Britain and Canada, and you know, it's just like
an amazing thing. And I'm just so glad because it's
only been out probably think a couple of months. But
you know, we're doing well, and Anxiety Press, you know,
wants to go and you know, do another one, but
I don't, I don't know, I'm just you know, I mean,
(59:20):
I think I just want to ride with this one
and see where this takes us. But it's a great book,
and I would I would also request that your readers,
if you do purchase The Schmurrow Haunting, please be so
kind as to place a review on Amazon. Those reviews
are the best thing you can do, you know, on
(59:41):
Amazon to help us authors. I mean, just does something
to the whole you know, the whole system. I mean
just helps us immensely. So if you could leave a review, good, bad,
or indifferent, it doesn't matter, I'd certainly appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (59:56):
Do you have any other major projects that are in
the works or any new.
Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
Yeah, we have a book called The Paranormal Apocalypse Is
this how It Ends? And that's published by Hangar one
and we're getting ready. It's it's been published, and we're
getting ready to launch a massive promotional effort to get
the word out about paranormal apocalypses. Is how it ends,
(01:00:21):
And we take a look at the end Times. We
take a look at the eschatologist who studied the end
Times and the four Horsemen of the Apocalypse and the
Seven Seals and all that, and the question is, you know, uh,
when is the world going to end? And how's it
going to end? And so I take a look at
those fears, I look at the possibilities. I look at
(01:00:42):
the profits who have have who have talked about when
the world was going to end, and it's a it's
a pretty good read. You know, we're getting where uh
hanger one is excited about this one.
Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
I guess I can let you get on with your evening.
And I've really enjoyed this interview and the topics we covered,
and I may ask you back in the future to
cover some other topics.
Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
Oh, Carl, that would be great. And again, if your
listeners are interested in contacting me, they could check out
my website which is www dot Maximfurick dot com. So
M A x I M if you r ek dot com.
And the books are there, and there's a place where
they could go and contact me, you know, if they
would want assigned copy of the book. So yeah, that
(01:01:27):
would be great.
Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
I also have all that information on my site, so
they can also go there and link directly to you.
Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
Very good. Well, thank you for having me on midnight frequency.
This has been a real pleasure and I wish you
continued success on your podcast. This has been great.
Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
Well, I appreciate it. I know I'm no art Bail,
but I do my best. Of course, tonight you can
hear them a little choked up. They're burning rice fields here,
so I apologize for that.
Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
Okay, okay, thank you so much, Carl, and hopefully we
can do this again.
Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
Yes sir, and you have a good evening. Thank you, sir.
(01:03:08):
People people, peop
From the Ozark Foothills of northeast Arkansas. I'm Carl Richardson
and this is Midnight Fregency Radio. Our guest this evening
is Maxim Furrick. Mister Furick is an author and researcher
whose work spans psychology, addictions, music journalism, and paranormal culture.
His investigations in the folklore true crime in America's high
(00:51):
strangest have been featured across print and digital media, with
a special focus on the Pennsylvania coalfields with what he
calls the whole Region Hoodoo. His academic background includes a
master's degree in communications from Bloomberg University and a bachelor's
degree in psychology from Aquinas College. Drawing on these disciplines,
(01:14):
Maxim examines the psychological and sociocultural currents behind UFOs, cryptids, hauntings, demonology,
music scenes, and media myth making. Beyond the paranormal, Maxim
is also known for documenting the Pennsylvania music history and
the rise of aar bands through the nineteen seventies and eighties,
(01:35):
as well as for commentary on generation xculture, grunge, and
the darker side of fame. Good Evening, mister Ferrick and
welcome to Midnight Frequency Radio.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Thank you so much, Carl, and thank you for that
wonderful intro that was almost like war and peace, but
thank you you did a great job with that, and
thank you so much for the invitation for to Midnight Frequency.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Well, it's an honor to have you here. And I
guess the first question is how did you get involved
in the paranormal field with all the other things you
had in the fire?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, well it was basically a fluke. I mean, you know,
I don't know want word you want to put on it.
But I never went looking for the paranormal. I had
been operating as a rock journalist for a number of years.
I had a number of books published, and I was
I consider myself a successful rock journalist. And what I
(02:29):
mean by that is taking a look at rock music,
you know, as a vehicle for that would transform society,
you know, and uplift us and give us hope and
all that. So I looked at music through a sociological
lens and wrote a couple of books. But in nine
years ago, exactly twenty sixteen, I wrote a book on
(02:50):
the Shepton about the Shepton mining disaster of nineteen sixty three,
that took place in northeastern Pennsylvania, and it was probably
the most bizarre mining event certainly that that I've researched.
But Shepton had elements of out of body experiences, near
death experiences, and after life experiences, plus uh, visions of
(03:15):
aliens and guardian angels and dead pope and everything else.
So that was nine years ago, and the Shepton Mythology,
my first paranormal book, opened up the doors to the paranormal,
and I was invited to expos and conferences and podcasts
and it just took off from there and I can't
(03:39):
I you know, again, it wasn't a demographic that I
was looking for, it wasn't even a topic that I
was looking for, but it sort of found me. And
I just love, you know, uh, you know, exploring the
realm of the paranormal. It's just the most fast, fascinating
and exciting genre that's out there, and uh, you know,
(04:00):
I'm just hoping that I could make a contribution to it,
to that to that genre.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
I think of the most influential people that you've met
over your journey into paranormal.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Well, certainly Edid, Lorraine Warren and I talk about my
relationship with Edind Lorraine in my book The Schmurrow Haunting,
when Edid Lorraine came to town, and that's a similar
theme as Conjuring Last writes, you know that is purportedly
about the West Pittston Schmurrow Haunting. Uh, there's is the
(04:30):
movie was fictionalized. I mean, there was very little that
was accurate there. You know, it was a horror movie.
It was. It was a fictional horror movie based on
the West Pittston, Pennsylvania. Uh, you know, uh event and uh,
but it was just, you know, an a motion picture
for entertainment. My book to Schmarrol Haunting. You know, if
(04:51):
you want to know about what happened, I mean, the
truth behind the conjuring, then read my book because it goes,
you know, to the schmurrohuning and beyond. But certainly Edda
Lorraine Warren were up there. This past summer, I had
an opportunity to meet Dan Rivera, who was the chief
handler for Annabelle. And that was Friday, July the eleventh,
(05:14):
to twenty twenty five. I met Dan Rivera and Ngetti's
Brick at the Gettysburg Orphanage. We had agreed to do
a phone interview on Monday, July the fourteenth, and Dan
passed away the previous night. He passed away on Sunday
the thirteenth, again allegedly from natural causes, you know, if
(05:38):
you want to believe that. But the people in the
paranormal community that I talked to say, no, there's no
such thing as a coincidence. No, take a look at
all the things that happened in New Orleans surrounding the
Annabelle tour, the Devils on the Run tour, and so
there's a lot of people that are saying there's something
(05:59):
else set play here. Don't use the word coincidence. You
know there was there. There were a lot of people,
including the psychic Vincent Sisters and people like Chris McKenna,
Eden Lorrain's god God, so that believe that that demonic
forces had infested the annabel doll and that may have
(06:22):
led to the death of Dan Rivera. So again it's controversial.
You know, people are aligning up. Take your pick, pick
your sides. I don't care. I think uh Annabel had
something to do with it, and that's what I write
about in my book The Schmerhaunting. But certainly edam the
Rain Warren were at one at the top of the list.
(06:42):
I was friends with Timothy Green Beckley, mister Ufo, and
he was a bit of a mentor to me early on.
And also a guy named doctor Frederick santi He was
a white witch. He was the high priest for the
Covenant the Kata, and he was a friend of mine.
(07:02):
He was my physician, and his coven located in northeastern
Pennsylvania in wal Wallapen, was sanctioned. It was initiated by
Sybil Leak, the world's most famous witch. And what's interesting, Karl,
is that Sybil Leak introduced witchcraft to the world with
(07:26):
her books and with her presence and her personality, as
Edie Lorraine Warren introduced demonology to the world through their
exploits and their investigations and their books. So both Sybil
Leak and Edi Lorraine Warrem are certainly important players in
(07:47):
the realm of demonology, and they are in the realm
of the paranormal, and they certainly deserve, you know, their place,
their chapter in the Great Book of the Paranormal. So
I was fortunate to have been friends with doctor Santee,
who taught me much about you know, the the Wicca
(08:08):
Craft and the Left and Right pathways, and also to
have been friends with Edi Lorraine Warren, who I met
in nineteen eighty eight. They were on a fifteen city
book tour for a book called The Haunted. So they
were you know, I stayed in touch with them over
the years, and they were just great people. I mean
(08:30):
they treated me very well and mentored me. So that
was Edwid Lorraine. And I dedicate my book to Schmerle
Haunting to Edie Lorraine.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Now Judy Warren wasn't even involved with the Smurles at all.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Was she. No, she wasn't. But you know, if you
watch The Conjuring Last Rites, it was all about Judy
Warren and the demons were after her and all that
not true. You know. The only thing that the only
thing that the Conjuring Lasts got correct. And I could
tell you this for a fact because I was there.
I mean, wes Pittston is in my backyard. It was
(09:07):
maybe thirty minutes away from where I live in Luizeran County, Pennsylvania.
So I was going up there frequently during this frenzy.
You know, it was all over the newspapers, in the radio,
and I would go up there and talk to the
neighbors and take pictures. I never knocked on the door
of the Schmules. They were under attack. They were under
assault by demonic forces, by neighbors that just believed that
(09:31):
they were in it for the money, didn't believe them,
and also by a media, a paparazzi that was just voracious.
They were rapacious. They the schmerl Jack and Janet Schmule
talked about the hundreds of media people that would be
calling her, asking from all over the world, international reporters,
(09:54):
asking for an exclusive interview. They were being harassed. Uh,
you know, it was really a sad situation. But like
I said, the only realism that conjuring last Rites had
was the frenzy that was happening there, the media frenzy
on Chase Street in West Pitston, Pennsylvania. They got that right,
(10:17):
and that was true. It was happening, you know.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Like like they said, Yeah, were there any similarities between
the Smow haunting and Amityville.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Yeah, I mean all these haunted houses, all these you know,
examples of poltergeist activities pretty much start up with the
same template. You know, the smells, the horrible smells, the grunts,
you know. I mean they have their variations, sometimes levitations
(10:47):
in both Amityville and Shmrow House rooms that will dip
to maybe thirty forty degrees, even though those rooms are
connected to furnaces into heating systems. So you know, that
happened there at the at the Schmurle haunting. The only difference,
I think there's some that's a great question, you know,
(11:08):
But I compare the Schmurrow Haunting with Anityville, the Hensdale
House and the Wells House. They take a look at
these other haunted houses, these other uh demonically possessed or
infested houses, and I compare them to the Schmurrow House.
A couple of things are interesting that the Anityville horror
(11:30):
is something that continues to shock us and repulses. It's
sort of like a modern day canaan Abel. No one
can believe that this young man, this twenty three year
old Butch de Fiel, would take a rifle and then
kill his mother, his father, his two sisters, and his
two brothers. He was a rich kid, a wealthy kid.
(11:52):
He walked around with thousands of dollars in his pocket.
He had everything that you know, you know, a teenager
could one. I mean all the materialistic pleasures and and everything.
But what's interesting with Butch the Field was he claimed
that he was possessed by a demon. And the prosecution
(12:14):
and there's a great book called High Hopes. That was
the name that they named this place in Amityville before
the Fields bought it. It's called High Hopes. But but
de Field claimed that he was possessed by a demon.
The prosecution had to prove that he wasn't possessed by demon,
(12:34):
but that he was a personality disorder, that he has
had no empathy for his fellow humans, and also he
had a need for immediate gratification. So this is what
they had to go and conduct, have to what played
out in the courtroom, which is so interesting. I mean,
it was one of the cases. I mean, there's been
(12:55):
several others, but with Amityville, they had to prove that
it was not demonic possession that made this young man,
this twenty three year old young man kill his family.
So that was and we can't let that go. And
if you were to google, if your listeners were to
google Amityville, you're gonna find countless books and motion pictures
(13:17):
about Amnityville, just because it resonates. It's just like one
of the most despicable, you know, stories that we've heard.
But it's also a cottage industry. I mean, people are
making money by talking about Amityville. So that's one thing.
The other thing I'm going to say about the Schmurrol Haunting.
(13:39):
What makes the Schmurle the Schmurrow House so unique is
the level the intensity of violence that we found at
the Schmurrow House in the eighties.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
And.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Jack Schmerrol claimed that he was raped by a female
demon a suckubus, and his wife claimed that she was
molested by an entity. They did show some of this.
They showed Jack in the movie Conjuring Last Rights. They
showed Jack uh levitating and and and being molested by
by something. So that came close to to the to
(14:16):
to being factual. But all of the other things that
I saw, and I really need to see Conjuring Last
Rites again just to look for some other things. But
you know, but it was not you know, it wasn't authentic,
and it really I mean, I enjoy the Conjuring franchise,
and I've seen all those movies, you know, numerous times,
but it just wasn't that good as far as you know,
(14:39):
being a scary horror movie. Uh, if your listeners are
looking for something that's good, I mean, go see Sinners,
go see Bringer Back, go see weapon or weapons. Uh,
those are wonderfully made motion pictures. And uh, you know,
and and horror you know are done well is an
(15:01):
art form, and certainly Conjuring last Writes, was not an
art form. It was just part of the two point
seven billion dollar net that the Conjuring you know, universe,
the multiverse has raked in. So it's a very successful franchise.
And it just and I would ask you this, Carl,
why do you suppose Conjuring is so successful? I mean,
(15:24):
what makes it tech? What's what's the draw, what's the attraction?
I mean, you're you're involved in all of this this stuff.
Why would what would you be what's your your gut
feeling about that?
Speaker 1 (15:33):
I don't know. I mean, you know, like you said,
a lot of it's not even real in that movie.
And I was shaking my head the whole time I
was watching it the other day. Yeah, but I guess
some of the people like that and believe what's being
put out there that haven't read the books that tell
the true story. And everything.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah, huh yeah, I you know, I would think that
people are watching it for the entertainment value, not for
the it's not for the education, no value, you know,
because there's there's not too much there.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
So yeah, I don't think I could sit through it again. Yeah, yeah,
off topic. How do you sleep with that painting behind
you in the house?
Speaker 2 (16:15):
That's yeah, that's the nun. And I'll tell you what.
When I do my presentations, I bring along the nun.
And also hang on, let me get up and show
you this, all right?
Speaker 1 (16:25):
And also a little little Ani doll.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Yeah, yes, little annabel And this is exactly what the
Annabelle Dell looked like. You know when I went you know,
Raggedy am when I went down to Gettysburg in July.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Yeah, the Conjuring movies that had that doll that they had,
I guess they just did it for effect because it
wasn't real.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yeah, correct. And then if you watch the Conjuring movies, Annabelle,
they the raggedy an al started to get more demonic looking,
and one reason was because they had to make it
scarier because this is very scary. But also I believe
part of it was copyright infringement. Whoever makes these raggedy
ann dolls, you know, probably was going to go and
(17:07):
sue them for whatever. So I think they backed off
on that and just made Annabel look different. But I'll
say this. When I was in Gettysburg, Annabel was in
this five foot wooden structure like a cage. It had
the Lord's Prayer affixed to the back. It had three
(17:29):
crosses for the Father son of the Holy Ghost. It
was infused with holy water and holy oil, and there
was a window there that was taken from a consecrated church,
but that was they kept Annabel in that in there
(17:49):
and supposedly there was supposed to be a priest there
at all times, father Bob. But I'll tell you this.
You know, no matter what the New England Society for
Psychic Research says, and they were the ones who took
Annabell on the road, there was no Father Bob there
on Friday, July the eleventh, when I was there. Father
Bob allegedly was out of country, so it's possible that
(18:12):
he wasn't even there for the other two days. Father
Bob wasn't there in Gettysburg. But I'll tell you who
was one two hundred and forty other people, including myself
and my wife, paying forty dollars each for the privilege
of seeing this raggedy ann doll that's Carl. That's close
(18:32):
to fifty thousand dollars in Gettysburg alone. Wow, fifty k.
And forget about New Orleans, West Virginia, San Antonio and
all the other places that they that they took. The
New England Psychic Society took Annabel. They were making money.
They were probably making fifty thousand, give or take, you know,
(18:53):
each place they went. Despite the fact that Lorraine Warren
wanted annabelt the state and Rowe Connecticut at the at
the Warren's Occult Museum and the uh, their son in law,
who's a Tony Spear, I believe, was part of the
group that decided to take Annabel on the road. And
(19:15):
UH have to live with the fact that, I mean,
who knows what what the real reason is the real
cause of Dan Rivera's death. But you know, if you
if you are you know, somewhat interested, if you're a
researcher of the of the of the paranormal, you have
to consider the fact that there were demonic energies from
(19:38):
from annabel And if you believe in a realm of
the demonology, we know that demonic forces can infest people
places or things like the Schmule house or the Schmurle
the SROs themselves, so uh, you know, uh, the you know,
the the death of Dan Rivera is unfortunate. I don't
(20:01):
think that anybody's celebrating his death. I think we're all
mourning it. But I think we need to just you know,
you know, to keep our voices loud saying be careful.
And they're taking Annabelle out on the road again of
course again, you know, and I just think this is
this is horrible, and you know, and again, it's all
about making money. It's not about anything else. It's not
(20:24):
about educating us or warning us about the realm of demonology.
So yes, you know, but anyway, I don't mean to
pontificate and rant, but it makes me angry that the
incentive for this is is money and nothing else.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Yeah, well, I understand where you're coming from. We're going
about twenty three after the hour. I'm going to go
ahead and run my first break, sure, and if you
need to refresh your water or coffee, and it's about
a five minute and twenty second break good.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Let me okay, We'll keep my tea. Okay, very good.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Okay, thanks sir.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
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(21:58):
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The next stage will test how well it performs in
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(22:21):
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(22:44):
Early trials in Japan produced only mild short term side
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Some researchers have raised concerns that relying on donor derived
(23:06):
hemoglobin may still pose limits on supply and possible infection risks.
Future generations of the product could be made using recombinant
or lab grown proteins to overcome that issue. Catch up
with us at darkmatternews dot com.
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Speaker 1 (26:15):
Hi, welcome back to Midnight Frequency Radio and our guests
Maxim Furich, did warrant share anything with you in their
personal experience with demonic possession?
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Yeah, pretty much. That's what we talked about. Like I said,
I had met them for the first time in nineteen
eighty eight. They were embarking on a fifteen city tour
to promote the book The Haunted, And that was interesting
because The Haunted was, you know, it was about the
schmurrole haunting there in West Piston. It was. It was
(26:46):
written by a guy named Robert Kerran c U R
R A N. And he was an award winning journalist
up in northeastern Pennsylvania. It was co written by Jack
and Janet Schmurr and also by Ed and Lorraine Warren,
but their contributions to the book I think were minimal
(27:06):
and also scattered. Jack and Janet schmur were not journalists.
They weren't writers. They were people that were being terrorized.
And so you know, what they gave Robert Current to
work with. It was just like basic text. You could
tell that the book was disjointed because there were like
separate parts of it. And by the same token, Ed
(27:29):
and the Rain were not writers. You know, all the books,
the five, six, seven books that were attributed to the
Warrens were ghost written by other people. So they also
weren't writers. But anyway, when I met them in nineteen
eighty eight, they were embarking on this fifteen city tour
to promote The Haunted, and I took pictures with them
(27:51):
that are in the schmil Haunting the book. And also
I talked to Ed and Lorraine about how they would
go and do battle with these demons, how they would
approach this, you know, And all of this was from
according to the warrants. From a Christian standpoint, they were
the warrants were devout Catholics, and they would use holy
(28:14):
water and the crucifix ed would call upon uh he
to do battle. He would uh get into the form
the spirit of Jesus Christ, Lord and Savior, Saint Michael
the Archangel and also Padre Peel, and he would invoke
their spirit to do battle with these with these demons.
(28:35):
He was a an exorcist, I think, a self taught uh,
demonologists and exorcists. But you know, even with what they
did at the Schmerl Haunting, it was, you know's efforts
weren't effective. He wasn't able to drive out the demons.
And they brought in a number of other priests, you know,
the priests from northeastern Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania came there and house sat,
(29:01):
they did blessings, they did exorcisms. You know, every diocese
has an exorcist in the diocese. Nothing was working, so
Da Lorraine brought in Father McKenna, Robert McKenna, who was
what's called a rogue priest. And McKenna was there at
the schmowhunting three times. He performed three exorcisms and could
(29:25):
not chase out the demon. So they at the final result,
the final uh, you know, gasp. The Bishop of Scranton,
h Bishop Timblin, brought in Father Alphonse tree Bolt and
he came in from down from New York State and
Saint Bonaventure University, and Father tree Bolt, who is the
(29:48):
real hero, the real hero of the story and was
not included in the book The Haunted, or the motion
picture or Conjuring last Rites. And that's that's the real
right there. But he was the one who performed four exorcisms,
father tree Bolt, and he finally was able to cast
out the demon. Now, I do want to say this
(30:11):
about Father Treebolt. He was successful with the Schmarrol Haunting,
but not with the Hinsdale House. And he had gone
to the Hinsdale House in New York and tried to
cleanse that house, the very evil house, and he was
not able to. He told the people living there, he said,
leave immediately, take your belongings, don't tell anyone where you're going,
(30:33):
and just leave. And Father Treeball said that this place,
the Hinsdale House, was a portal to hell. It was
a gateway to hell. There was nothing good that could
happen there. And what's interesting in this place is in
western Pennsylvania. The owner, Now, you could spend the night
there at the Hinsdale House for a fee. It's almost
(30:56):
like a bed and breakfast. And you know, I can't
think of a more or foolish thing for anybody to do.
I certainly would not do that. And I would warn
people about, you know, a venture like that. So that's
the Hensdale House in western Pennsylvania. That was the one
that Father tree Boat was not able to go and cleanse.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
You're one of the last paranormal research to speak with
Dan Rivera before he died.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Yeah, I know. And what do you think about that?
Speaker 1 (31:27):
It's spooky?
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Yeah, yeah, I'll tell you. There's a war going on
right now, and you know, and I'm you know, I'm
really reaching a point where I'm really ready to start
to do battle, but I don't want to do that.
But I have a chapter in my book called the
Death of Dan Rivera, and we take a look at
Annabelle the Devil's on the Run tour. You know how
(31:52):
they took Annabelle in twenty twenty five out of Monroe,
Connecticut and took annabel on the road. Dan Rivera was
the chief annabel handler. He was a former Methodist guy,
and he converted to Catholicism and he was walking on clouds.
I mean, he professed his Christianity, his love of God,
his belief in God, all this, all these people there
(32:15):
with this New England psychic research and know the people
that I met in Gettysburg at the Orphanage. They all
were the same way. They believed that the power of
the devil is great, but the power of God is
even greater. And that was their theme, and that is
their their their mighty and this is the sword that
they that they willed. I met him on the July
(32:40):
the eleventh. We had a wonderful conversation. I got there
to the they invited me and I was at the
head of the line and had a chance to go
and Dan greeted me and we had a chance to
have a really good conversation. Go deep. I was telling
him about the book about the Schmerl Haunting that I
was researching, and we were and we started to talk
(33:00):
about Edda, the Rain, and about some of the things
pertaining to the Schmorhouse. Again. What happened was we agreed
to do a phone conversation, a phone interview on Monday,
July the fourteenth. This is when Dan Rivera was going
to go back to I'm not sure if he was
from Monroe, Connecticut or one of those towns around Monroe,
but he was going back there and we were going
(33:26):
to talk on Monday. And then I got a call
from a friend that said, did you hear about the
paranormal research researcher from Kettysburg that died? And I thought
it was one of the other gentlemen that I had
met and interacted with, And when I googled it here
it was Dan Rivera. I was shocked. I still am shocked.
(33:47):
And now we're having some of the people from the
New England group saying that some people are celebrating Dan's death,
some people are capitalizing and making money on his death,
and all this horrible, horrible stuff that isn't true. You know,
you know, this is only going to go so far
(34:09):
before you know, somebody takes starts to litigate. But you know,
Dan may have died because of demonic energies attributed to Annabelle,
and I would like this New England group of psychic
researchers to prove that it was only natural causes. I'd like,
you know, I'd like to see their accounting for that.
(34:32):
When Annabelle went to New Orleans through those two or
three days, there were three things that happened, and that
was all over the internet. And I think it was
May of twenty twenty five. There was a fire in
the plantation, the largest plantation in Louisiana, sugarcane plantation burned down,
the prison break eleven inmates from a New Orleans jail
(34:57):
broke out when during this same period when annabel was there.
And then also the house that belonged to the voodoo
queen Marie la fay uh was burned. So all of
that was attributed to uh the uh to Annabelle and
it didn't happen uh in Uh. It didn't happen in
(35:20):
in San Antonio or West Virginia, but had happened in
New Orleans. And then also the nine to one one
lines were tied up in Gettysburg. And this is pretty,
you know, pretty bizarre, but this is something that happened
after the fact. So you know, you could google Gettysburg, Orphanage,
Dan Rivera and there's just a million things that pop up.
(35:42):
It's just it's incredible. And uh but every podcast that
I'm on, the people say, well, how do you what
do you think caused his death? And I said that
I'm not sure, I don't know, but I think annabel
had something has something to do with it, and uh,
so that's that's my belief.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Yeah, one of your more fascinating chapters in this Marrow
Haunting talks about Pope John Paul the Second and his
exorcism college.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Can you elaborate some more on that.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Absolutely. Well, first of all, I start with the premise.
You know, with my book, you know, whether or not,
you know, there's a debate whether or not evil exists,
whether or not the devil exists. And so I am
of the belief that there is. The evil does exist.
It manifests in many different forms and shapes, and the
(36:37):
devil does exist. I think the devil is a great deceiver.
He or she is a decepter. You know, the devil
wants us to think that they don't exist, that it's
just a myth created by our parents, by our caregivers,
by the church, you know, to keep us in line.
If you don't go to church, the devil's going to
(36:57):
get you. If you don't say your prayers, you're going
to go to hell. I mean, you know, we've heard this,
you know, since we were kids. But I believe that
that evil does exist and the devil does exist. So
and so did Pope John Paul the Second. And that's
why what he did was he rewrote the right of
exorcism and that's our ite. After four hundred years he
(37:20):
rewrote it and updated it. He believed that evil exists
in modern times, and he organized a school of exorcism
where priests one hundred and thirty two priests from thirty
different countries came. I believe it was to the Vatican
to learn this medieval, ancient right of exorcism to cast
(37:46):
out these demons.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
This.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
I have a chapter so that is that's in my book,
and I talk about Pope John Paul the Second. But
I also have a chapter called the Apostles of Exorcism,
and one of them is Father Amorth. And Father Amworth
was the Vatican's exorcist. He did he completed over thousands
(38:10):
and thousands of exorcisms, and there was a motion picture
with Russell Crowe Crowe called the Pope's Exorcist. I have
seen that, yes, sir, and it's very well done. I
think the setting was in Spain and there was demonic
infestation there and so Russell Crowe had to go there
and do battle. But I mean it was really well
(38:32):
done and it was authentic. I mean I liked it.
Father Amorth said this though, when people show up and
claim that they are possessed by demons. The church has
to make a determination whether or not these people are
actually possessed by demons or if they are mentally ill.
(38:54):
And they have to determine whether or not they're schizophrenic,
or have bipolar or Turet syndrome or whatever. Father A.
Morth said that two percent of the people only are
the ones that are that are possessed, and these are
the ones that he deals with. I have a chapter
called the two Percent, and these are the you know again,
(39:14):
these are the cases. These are the infamous cases of
demonic possessions. Just a fascinating, fascinating topic. The I have
a chapter called the Apostles of Exorcism, and the first
one that I list is Jesus Christ of Nazareth. And
(39:37):
Jesus was the one who was able to cast out
the demons, and that's all over the New Testament. But
he was able to teach his apostles to also do
these do the right of exorcism if they did it
in Christ's name and in his spirit. And that was
the sort of the formula for casting out demons. And
(39:59):
this is what the exorses do today. They do it
in the in the name of Christ. And in his
in his spirit, and the power comes from a higher authority,
not from us, but from up above, from God. So
all things through God. So this is a you know,
a spiritual thing. It's a God thing. And I know
there's people out there that you know, are not believers,
(40:21):
but that's fine. I mean, I'm not trying to convince
anybody over to my side. I mean, I happen to believe,
you know, that there's a demonic forces out there, and
I try to keep my distance. You know, I've been
you know, I am being warned continuously by my friends,
you know, my uh born again uh fundamentalist uh and
(40:45):
evangelical Christian friends who just warned me not to get
too close to the flame. And I don't think I do.
I mean, I think I'm keeping my distance. I mean
I don't. I don't dance with the devil, and I
don't ask for favors from the devil, you know, I don't.
I'm very, very very I'm I'm apprehensive and I'm I'm cautious.
So you know, that's that's what I do. But but
(41:08):
the uh, the book, The Schmurrow Haunting. If you're interested
at all in the realm of demonology and the right
of exorcism and all of that. My book takes a
look at that, using the Schmurl Haunting sort of as
a pivot point, and then bouncing the Amityville Horror and
the Hinsdale House and the Wells House against that, comparing
(41:30):
and contrasting and looking at history's greatest exorcists and what
they did and what they were noted for, and looking
at movies like The Exorcists and uh, you know, you know,
Rosemary's Babies, things like that that brought that realm of
(41:50):
demonology into our published public awareness. And so as Hollywood
did that, Lorraine ed and Lorraine Warren were doing the
same thing through their lectures and their books. They were
the ambassadors of demonology. They educated us, and many people,
(42:10):
you know, disliked the Warrens for because of their success.
They were making five thousand dollars back in the day
when five thousand was a whole lot of money. But
they were making five thousand dollars a seminar, doing close
to one thousand, uh seminars on demonology on college campuses.
So they were making money, and they were, you know,
(42:33):
on talk shows all the time, and you know, and
so people use that, you know, say that because they
were capitalistic, and because they were successful capitalists that somehow
that taints, you know, their credibility and and it really doesn't.
I mean, they were you know, if the critics were
able to be as successful as a Rain warrant, then
they would be doing the same thing. Not everybody has
(42:55):
the talent, not everybody has gets the calling, and they did.
And again they were as significant ambassadors as was Sybil Leak,
you know, in her own in her own realm. So
edwa O, Rain Warren were important people, you know, in
(43:16):
the world of the paranormal.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
What are your thoughts about Jason Anson's nineteen seventy seven
non fiction book The Amityville Horr.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Yeah, I read that book, you know, when I was
writing The Shrom Honey. I read that book twice, and
I said, I also read High Hopes, which which was
really well done. It was it was a like a
legal thriller. But Jay Anston book wasn't that good. And
I say this because he wrote this listening to something
(43:48):
like I don't. I think it was forty eight hours
of tape from George and Kathy Lutz. And remember after
Ronnie the fail butchered after he murdered his family. Then
that house that High Hopes was up for sale and
George and Kathy lettscot it for eighty thousand dollars, which
was a real steal, you know, this beautiful mansion in
Long Island, in the ritzy part of the affluent part
(44:11):
of town. But they only stayed therefore, I think it
was twenty eight days, driven out by demons. And so
anyway they put on they tape recorded their accounts of that.
Jay Anston wrote about it, and The Amityville Horror became
a million seller. There was motion pictures and then follow
(44:33):
ups and prequels and everything else, and just amazing when
I was researching this, amazing how many books have been
written about Amityville. But the book was scattered because jay
Ansen didn't really have a whole lot to work with.
And then you know, there was one chapter towards the
end that I thought he really got it right. But
(44:53):
he was speaking in another tone, another cadence, another meter,
and I think that was his true voice. I think
the rest of the book was just based on, you know,
the tape recordings of George and Kathy Lutz, but certainly
just you know, a house that was possessed, the flies,
(45:14):
the uh, the talking pig that the little girl saw,
just all kinds of you know, bizarre things that you know,
almost a typical house with demonic infestation.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Yeah. Do you think George and Kathy Lets were telling
the truth? Are just trying to make money? Now?
Speaker 2 (45:31):
Well, I think they were telling the truth, But I
think they were also trying to make money. Uh, there
was money in this and Jay certainly Jay Anstin wrote
the book that sold millions, and then there was the
movie based on his book. So yeah, there was money
to be made, and I think they made some of it,
but I don't think that was their motivation. I think
that they were really terrorized. I think there was a
(45:52):
demonic infestation there. And again, you could believe them or not,
and a lot of people don't. I believe in the
the universal law of ninety You know, in any given situation,
you're gonna have thirty percent of the people that are
true believers. You're gonna have thirty percent of the people
that don't believe any of it, and then thirty percent
that could care less. They're just on the bias. You know,
(46:13):
they could be swayed either way. So you know, it's
just like Edi the Rain, but edam the Rain Warren.
It's not thirty thirty and thirty. It's more, you know,
a lot of people do not like Edin Lorraine Warren,
not just because of their success, but a lot of
people felt that they hid behind their Catholicism, that they
hid behind you know, the God and Christianity that you know,
(46:37):
that they made things up that they you know, exaggerated
and all of that. But you know, but I was,
you know, I consider myself their friends. And again they
certainly took their time with me and mentored me, and
I stayed in touch with them after nineteen eighty eight.
You know, I would call them up and I would
(46:57):
talk to Ed and ask them questions. Lorraine was a
pet lover, an animal lover. She had a pet rooster
that you could hear, and you know, it was really
kind of funny. But they were nice people, and I
think maybe I like to think that Ed saw maybe
a little bit of him in me, you know, my curiosity,
my energy, my you know, excitement, all that. I think.
(47:20):
But you know, but one of my fondest memories is
hanging out in July. I think it was on the
streets of jim Thorp, Pennsylvania, a very nice touristy town.
That's where they were doing their presentations and hanging out
with them on the sidewalk in the heat, summer heat,
talking about demonic possession and talking about the power of
(47:42):
God and the power of evil. And it was just like,
I wish I could go back in time, Carl and
you know, and ask them the same questions, but make
go deeper and further and you know, be more probing.
But that's one of my favorite memories. And I am
indeed blessed that I knew the Warrens, you know, and
(48:02):
and with the Schmurl Haunting, I mean I felt that
something was channeled through me to write this book. You know,
Wes Pittson is in my backyard, so I was there
all the time. I met Edain Moraine when they were
on their book tour for the Haunted, and then I
went down that tag Gettysburg and this year and met
Dan Rivera and which is a big part of the
(48:24):
sole thing. So I don't know, I mean, I was
put there. I mean, I don't think it was a
coincidence that you know that uh, you know that I
went to see Annabelle and met Dan just before he died.
And I don't think it was a coincidence that, you know,
that I happened to meet and became friends with Edite
Marine Warren. So but you know, I think that I
(48:45):
was meant to write this book and I'm qualified to
write it, and I and my book comes a hell
of a lot closer to the truth than conjuring last writes. Ever,
could you know the book is totally fictionalized, Like you indicated,
Judy Warren never stepped foot inside the the Schmurle house,
(49:06):
and neither did Tony Spira smera spear of her her husband,
you know, the son in law, so you know, so
that that part was just fictionalized. One thing that they
had in the in the movie that was interesting, Judy
Warren was there when Simon the Schmule's German shepherd was levitated,
(49:27):
and what really happened was down Schmule, who had to
be I don't know, I think maybe eighteen at the time,
I'm not sure, but watched the dog Simon levitate and
then it was flung across the room against the wall.
And the theories are plentiful, but either you know, either
she was hallucinating and didn't really see that, or that's
(49:50):
what she saw, or it was demonic forces that lifted
up Simon and levitated him. Or and this is the
interesting one, that Dawn Schmurr was manifesting some psychic kinetic energies.
And we know about these energies from Stephen King his
books like Carrie, Firestarter, The Shining. They talk about these
(50:16):
young people, typically female adolescents, that have these energies, these
these uh these uh psych these these psychic energies, and
they don't know how to go how to utilize them,
and there's a lot of anger and angst. And this
could have been what happened with the dog Simon that
it was uh Dawn that lifted that that Collie levitated
(50:39):
it and threw it across the uh the room. In
the movie it was Judy Warren. But again that's another
you know, just you know, never happened, another bit of fantasy.
They could have made that movie a lot better if
they would have had an interplay between the church you know,
uh not believing that the house was was infested versus
(51:02):
priest that believed that it was. I mean, that would
have made it for a better and more accurate story,
but they didn't, so I think that the conjuring last
writes was a bit of a letdown as far as
the storyline, you know, entertaining, yes, but not a very
good plot.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
Yes, sir, I'm on the lily ahead and run my
last break and then we can come back and close out.
Speaker 2 (51:42):
I can see lane back.
Speaker 5 (51:44):
You're sending this.
Speaker 4 (51:47):
Well, you do what you do, confess.
Speaker 3 (52:01):
In spring City, Pennsylvania, the former Penhurst State School and Hospital,
closed in nineteen eighty six, has become a magnet for
paranormal enthusiasts, haunted house tourism, and dark history tours. Once
a psychiatric facility with a troubled past spanning eight decades,
it now draws hundreds each year to explore what many
(52:24):
call one of America's most haunted asylums. One visitor, Steve Roberts,
admits he's uncertain about ghosts, but after joining a paranormal
gathering at Penhurst, he says the unnerving experiences made skepticism
harder to maintain. Others report shadowy figures, electromagnetic fluctuations, and
(52:46):
sudden cold spots in spaces now used for ghost hunts.
The site hosts par con events combining expert panels and
night investigations, as well as overnight tours that let thrillcyk
from four floors and underground tunnels after dark. The building's
legacy is steeped in allegations of neglect, poor conditions, and
(53:09):
mistreatment of mentally ill residents. Organizers aim to balance thrill
and respect. Daytime historic tours emphasize the institution's controversial medical practices,
while nighttime attractions lean into the supernatural. Recent changes include
collaborating with disability and mental health advocates to reshape how
(53:33):
the story is told. Today, Penhurst survives both as a
haunted attraction and a living museum. That's it for Dark
Matter News. Catch up with us on the Midnight Frequency
Facebook page from Memphis, Tennessee. I'm joshuas Dark. Join Carl
(53:56):
Richardson and Midnight Frequency This High. We unite at nine
to thirty Pacific twelve thirty Eastern for Ozark ghost Stories.
Call in and tell us about your experiences with the beyond.
That's right, ghost stories and paranormal experiences is only you
can tell them. Callin information will be posted at www
(54:17):
dot Midnight Frequency dot net. Join us and explore the
unknown if you dear.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
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(54:47):
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for activity. It also covers AM, FM and weather with alert.
To get your CC Skywave SSB two, call us at
(55:10):
one eight hundred five two two eight eight six three
our visit us on the web at ccrane dot com.
Once again that c C R A n E dot com.
(55:52):
Welcome back to me night Frequents the radio and our
guest Maxim Furic, mister Fhiic. How do you think the
rest of the world views the world Horns.
Speaker 2 (56:00):
Yeah, I think that they have their critics, you know,
I talked about the A lot of people I think
are jealous because they were so financially successful and they
use that, you know as a as a means of
castigating them, which I just don't think is fair. But
the other thing, though, is that I think as Christians,
(56:22):
I think that Ed and Lorraine looked at the world
through a very black and white lens, and you know,
just a lens of good, either good or evil. And
it's something that you know, Pagans and Wickens don't adhere to.
Certainly Pagans that I know believe that that they that
(56:46):
there's demonic energies, there's dark energies around us, and that
we need to coexist with those energies. And it's sort
of like that Youngian shadow self, you know, so those
dark forces, those dark energies are out there, but you know,
they live amongst us, they live within us. You know,
we need to coexist with them, I mean, and you know,
(57:07):
look at ourselves. I mean, we're not all good and
we're not all evil. You know, we're a mix hopefully
of you know, more of one than the other. But anyway,
that was another thing that there's other the certainly Pagans
that I know are highly critical of it in the
rain Warren and other you know Christian demonologist you know,
(57:28):
just for the taking a all or nothing stance. So
you know, the world doesn't view them with a whole
lot of kindness and respect. And again, despite that, despite that,
the Conjuring franchise is the most successful horror franchise in history,
(57:53):
two point seven billion dollar net for those nine motion pictures,
which include you know, breakaway uh films like The Nun
and also uh the Breakaway like Annabel the Doll. And
there'll be more, they'll be prequels. And I believe Netflix
(58:13):
is having another uh uh Conjuring uh uh you know
series out there, So I think the Conjuring is going
to be around with us for a long time. And
my book, The Schmorrow Haunting, you know, which just seems
to uh, you know, to fit in there seamlessly. You know,
it's just uh, I mean, you know, we are timing
(58:35):
was right. Our book came out, Oh, I think it
was like three weeks before uh September fifth, when Conjuring
Last Rites came out, so we uh you know, beat
this out of the gate by quite a bit. And
uh but but again, you know, I tell people, you know,
if you want the true story about the Schmorrow House
and about the realm of demonology, read my book. It's
(58:59):
getting powerful reviews We've gotten reviews all over you know,
great Britain and Canada, and you know, it's just like
an amazing thing. And I'm just so glad because it's
only been out probably think a couple of months. But
you know, we're doing well, and Anxiety Press, you know,
wants to go and you know, do another one, but
I don't, I don't know, I'm just you know, I mean,
(59:20):
I think I just want to ride with this one
and see where this takes us. But it's a great book,
and I would I would also request that your readers,
if you do purchase The Schmurrow Haunting, please be so
kind as to place a review on Amazon. Those reviews
are the best thing you can do, you know, on
(59:41):
Amazon to help us authors. I mean, just does something
to the whole you know, the whole system. I mean
just helps us immensely. So if you could leave a review, good, bad,
or indifferent, it doesn't matter, I'd certainly appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (59:56):
Do you have any other major projects that are in
the works or any new.
Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
Yeah, we have a book called The Paranormal Apocalypse Is
this how It Ends? And that's published by Hangar one
and we're getting ready. It's it's been published, and we're
getting ready to launch a massive promotional effort to get
the word out about paranormal apocalypses. Is how it ends,
(01:00:21):
And we take a look at the end Times. We
take a look at the eschatologist who studied the end
Times and the four Horsemen of the Apocalypse and the
Seven Seals and all that, and the question is, you know, uh,
when is the world going to end? And how's it
going to end? And so I take a look at
those fears, I look at the possibilities. I look at
(01:00:42):
the profits who have have who have talked about when
the world was going to end, and it's a it's
a pretty good read. You know, we're getting where uh
hanger one is excited about this one.
Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
I guess I can let you get on with your evening.
And I've really enjoyed this interview and the topics we covered,
and I may ask you back in the future to
cover some other topics.
Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
Oh, Carl, that would be great. And again, if your
listeners are interested in contacting me, they could check out
my website which is www dot Maximfurick dot com. So
M A x I M if you r ek dot com.
And the books are there, and there's a place where
they could go and contact me, you know, if they
would want assigned copy of the book. So yeah, that
(01:01:27):
would be great.
Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
I also have all that information on my site, so
they can also go there and link directly to you.
Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
Very good. Well, thank you for having me on midnight frequency.
This has been a real pleasure and I wish you
continued success on your podcast. This has been great.
Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
Well, I appreciate it. I know I'm no art Bail,
but I do my best. Of course, tonight you can
hear them a little choked up. They're burning rice fields here,
so I apologize for that.
Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
Okay, okay, thank you so much, Carl, and hopefully we
can do this again.
Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
Yes sir, and you have a good evening. Thank you, sir.
(01:03:08):
People people, peop
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