Peter Davenport Sunday November 9th 2025

Topic: National UFO Reporting Center

Peter Davenport has been director of NUFORC since 1994.  He has also served as the director of investigations for the Washington Chapter of MUFON.   Peter experienced his first UFO sighting over the St. Louis municipal airport in the summer of 1954, and investigated his first UFO case during the summer of 1965 in Exeter, New Hampshire.  He has been witness to several subsequent anomalous events, including a dramatic sighting over Baja California in February 1990, and several nighttime sightings over Washington State during 1992.Peter received his undergraduate education at Stanford, where he earned bachelor’s degrees in both Russian and biology, as well as a translator’s certificate in Russian translation.  His graduate education was completed at the University of Washington, where he earned an M.S. in the genetics and biochemistry of fish from the College of Fisheries, as well as an M.B.A. in finance and international business from the Graduate School of Business.  Peter has worked as a college instructor, a commercial fisherman, a Russian translator in the Soviet Union, a fisheries observer aboard Soviet fishing vessels, a flight instructor, and was the founder of a Seattle-based biotechnology company.  He was a candidate for the Washington State legislature in 1986, and for the U. S. House of Representatives in 1992. NUFORC Website: https://nuforc.org/

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Tree from the Ozark Foodhills in northeast Arkansas. I'm Carl
Richardson in This is Midnight Frequency Radio. Our guest this

(00:43):
evening is Peter Davenport. Peter Davenport has been a director
of the National UFO Reporting Center since nineteen ninety four.
Has also served as a director of investigations for the
Washington chapter of MOUFAN. Peter experienced his first UFO siding
over Saint Louis Municipal Airport in the summer of nineteen

(01:04):
fifty four and investigated his first UFO case during the
summer of nineteen sixty five in Exeter, New Hampshire. He
has been witnessed to several subsequent anomalous events, including dramatic
siding over Baja California in February of nineteen ninety and
several nighttime sightings over Washington State during nineteen ninety two.

(01:25):
He received his undergraduate education at Stanford, when he earned
his bachelor's degree in both Russian and biology, as well
as a translator certificate in Russian translation. His graduate education
was completed at the University of Washington, where he earned
an MS in the genetics and Biochemistry of fish from

(01:45):
the College of Fisheries, as well as an MBA in
Finance and International Business from the Graduate School of Business.
Peter has worked as a college instructor, a commercial fisherman,
a Russian translator in the Soviet Union, a fisheries observer
around Soviet fishing vessels, a flight instructor, and was the

(02:05):
founder of the Seattle based bio Technology Company. He was
a candidate for the Washington State Legislator in nineteen eighty
six and for the US House of Representatives in nineteen
ninety two. Good even to mister Davenport and welcome to
Midnight Frequency Radio.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
Good evening, Carl, and I'm delighted to be here. It's
great to have an opportunity to speak with somebody who
was so close to Art Bell did a number of
really exciting programs together.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
Well, it's a pleasure to have you here. I guess
I should start by asking how did everything lead up
to you becoming the National UFO Reporting Center Director.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
Well, quite by accident. The last Friday in July of
nineteen ninety four, I was talking to Robert J. Gribble,
who was the founder of the hotline. Bob Gribble was
a was fascinated by the UFO subject. He'd never seen
a UFO himself, but he knew they existed, and I

(03:09):
called him. I heard he was considering shutting down the hotline,
which had run for twenty years by nineteen ninety four,
and we talked about it. I offered my help to
him to help him keep it up and running, and
before that conversation was over, he said, Peter, it's yours.
From that point forward, I have been responsible for the

(03:32):
operation of the probably one of the most well known
hotlines in the United States. Been a lot of work.
I've never worked as hard as I have over the
last thirty one years.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
I bet you take a lot of phone calls. Are
they stay unfairly consistent or have they slacked off?

Speaker 2 (03:52):
Well, they've increased in frequency. Actually, we used to take
eight or maybe ten or twelve calls a day thirty
years ago, and we're now taking twenty to fifty calls.
And fortunately many people are just going to the online

(04:13):
report forum on our website, which is ufocenter dot com
and submitting written reports, which is a big help to us.
So the volume of reports is increased. I don't know
why that is. It may just be that people that
feel more comfortable talking about the subject and sharing their

(04:34):
personal experiences.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
Did you get a lot of calls during the Phoenix Lights?

Speaker 3 (04:41):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (04:42):
Boy, that was quite a night.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
The calls started about I think it was seven fifteen
at night, Seattle time, and I didn't turn off this
hotline until three, about three forty five that night. I've

(05:06):
never spent a night working so hard in my life.
And as you may know, Hart and I did a
program that night on the subject. He was getting calls
and I was getting calls. He called me and said, Peter,
what are you getting And I told him and he said,
we'll have you on tonight. Was one of the most

(05:27):
memorable radio appearances I've ever had.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
I think I remember listening to that one live when
it was all going down. Yeah, you had your own
UFO siding.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
Yeah, that's even more than my taking over the hotline.
It was my sighting. I think it was in late
summer July or August, maybe September of nineteen.

Speaker 4 (05:54):
Fifty four.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
I was six and a half years of age, and
I'd love to tell the story. It's it's rather exciting
to me.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
Well, you're welcome to do so.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
My father worked for a major American Airline at the
Saint Louis Airport, and he was stationed manager for them,
which meant he frequently had to go out to his
office at night to do some work in preparation for
the next day. And one night, my father, my mother,
my older brother, and I drove to the airport and

(06:29):
dropped my father off on the north side of the
Saint Louis Airport, and then my mother and brother and
I went around to the south side to a drive
in theater which was very popular in those days, called
the Airway Cinema. Long story short. Midway through the film,
people started getting out of their cars and running. They

(06:52):
were running to our right. I looked out the side
window of our family car, a fifty three student and
there was the most bizarre looking craft I'd ever seen
in my life. And being the son of an airline employee,
I prided myself in being able to identify almost any

(07:15):
kind of airplane that went into Saint Louis. I could
tell DC six is from DC sevens just by their sound.

Speaker 4 (07:24):
For example, Yes, Sir, and.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
I looked out the right side of that student baker,
and there was an object that was so bright, so
bright red fire engine red and disc shaped with a
coupel on top. It was so bright I didn't want
to look at it hurt my eyes. And suddenly, after
a few seconds that I'd watched it, it accelerated just

(07:50):
like a marble coming out of a slingshot, and I
went behind the screen and I thought at that point
that we were done with it. A few seconds later,
it rose up from behind the screen straight up and
then did a small radius turn and came straight down
again behind the screen, so we couldn't see it, but

(08:14):
we could see the light radiating from it. Then, when
I finally thought we were done with it, it shot
to the northwest, went behind some buildings of McDonald Aircraft Corporation.
And I've been a slave to the UFO question ever since.
That planted a seed in my mind, and I want

(08:38):
to help answer the question of what these things are.
I think I know, but we don't have the proof yet.
But that was my introduction to the UFO field.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
Well that's a wild one, for sure. If I saw
something like that, I'd be, like you, majorly involved with it.
Has the mission of the National UFO Reporting Center evolved
since its inception?

Speaker 4 (09:06):
Is it involved in what? Please?

Speaker 1 (09:08):
Has it evolved since its inception it's beginning.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
Oh yes, I think principally because of the Internet. Whereas
Bob Gribble used to take most of his information over
the telephone and requests that people submit written reports using
the postal system, we now have the benefit of Internet

(09:32):
that allows people to communicate much more rapidly via email,
and now because of websites, we can reduce the load
on the personnel at the center. That's principally me and
it's a much more sophisticated operation, much smoother now.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
Well, I'm sure that makes it easier and keeps you
from being on the phone as much. I sure hope
it does.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah, I'm trying to urge people, and while we're on
that subject, I'd like to make a point to share
with our listeners. One thing I've observed over thirty one
years of operating the hotline is people who believe they've
seen a UFO are questioning to talk about it. They

(10:22):
want to tell somebody. The problem is we're taking so
many phone calls now that I don't have the luxury
of being able to spend half an hour or an
hour listening to somebody's report and that's where our online
report form comes in, which allows people to submit their
reports in written form, which is important because we can't

(10:47):
post a telephone conversation to our website very easily. A
written report is far better than an oral report over
the telephone, so.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
You probably get more details that way.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah, and it's something that is indelible. We encourage people
to write out a detailed written account of what they saw,
to include where they were, what the time and date were,
what direction they were looking, the angle of elevation, whether
other people were present, what color the object was. All

(11:23):
that information is crucially important for another person to be
able to understand what the witness observed. So I'd invite
our listeners tonight at their leisure, even if they haven't
seen a UFO, to go to our website again that
addresses ufocenter dot com very easy to remember and familiarize

(11:47):
themselves with the report form such that if they see
something unusual, they are familiar with the operation, and or
if they encounter somebody who tells them that he's seen
a UFO, to encourage that witness to submit his own report. Yes, sir,

(12:09):
we've since we set up our website in nineteen ninety six.

Speaker 4 (12:15):
I believe it was.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
We've accumulated one hundred and seventy thousand reports that now
because of our webmasters, they're what's called sortable in the
computer parlance. They're able to select the type of craft
scene or the location, they are, all sorts of criteria

(12:39):
they can use to sort those one hundred and seventy
thousand reports and get what they're looking for.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
What's a typical report that you would get on a siding.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
Well, the most common report, I feel is not of
a UFO. We get a lot of things reported that
don't have anything to do with the alien spacecraft. I feel.
For example, in urban areas, there are a lot of
advertising lights that circle and shown up on the bottom

(13:12):
sides of clouds, and incredibly, to my great surprise, we
get a lot of reports like that. It's typically four
lights that are circulating circulating in a circle, and they
go out and then come back together to a point,
and somebody seasoned in receiving the UFO reports can spot

(13:37):
that type of event pretty quickly. A lot of people
report stars, and they report that they couldn't be a
star because they're hopping around in the sky. Most astronomers
are quite familiar with that that phenomenon. It turns out
if you stare at a bright objects against the dark
background for more than maybe a few seconds fifteen twenty seconds,

(14:01):
because of the constant flickering of the human eye, many
unskilled observers will believe that the source of light is moving,
hopping around. Well, we can spot those reports rarely quickly.
A lot of people report satellites. I'm quite surprised by

(14:21):
the number of people I've encountered who have never seen
a satellite in the night sky. But people report the
International Space Station quite frequently.

Speaker 1 (14:34):
I keep track of the International Space Station for ham
radio purposes, but I've got the tracking software on my
computer that helps locate it.

Speaker 4 (14:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
We try to educate people when we get reports as
or not UFOs, and encourage them to investigate on their
own and explore and familiarize themselves with websites that track
satellites and most of all in the space station. One
type of report we get very commonly is of Starlink satellites.

(15:10):
Oh yeah, when they first went up, we got a
lot of really very excited people. I talked to one
pilot who was halfway from Los Angeles to Honolulu, and
he saw starlink cluster go over, and he admitted that
he was tempted to turn his plane back around and

(15:30):
go back to Los Angeles. He was so shocking to him.
He just didn't know about the program. But many more
people now are familiar with that project, and we don't
get nearly as many calls as we used to.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
Are there any new technologies that y'all are looking at,
like passive radar?

Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah, though I'd be delighted to talk about that. It's
if a person who knows my work were to ask
somebody what just Davenport's greatest contribution to ufology, most people
would say, well, it's those one hundred and seventy thousand
reports he's collected over thirty one years. But in point

(16:12):
of fact, I would differ with that person because I
think my proposal to use reflected signals emanating from commercial
radio and television stations is my greatest contribution, and I'm
shocked that it hasn't caught on with greater interest than

(16:35):
it has. I can tell a story of how I
came up with it in January. It was the Friday
before Martin Luther King weekend January of nineteen ninety five,
I'd been running the hotline for four or five months.
I was exhausted and a little bit concerned because the

(16:57):
job was taking up my entire day from wake up
his lights out, and I hadn't allowed for devoting that
amount of time to running the hotline. And I said
to myself, there's got to be a better way to
detect UFOs than using an eyewitness who describes it verbally.

(17:21):
And then it suddenly hit me. In the mid nineteen eighties,
I used to work in the venture investment business venture capital,
and our company was approached by a company in Kent,
Washington called Meteor Communications Corp. And they built equipment. They

(17:43):
consisted of ex Boeing engineers who were laid off in
the early seventies and they decided to set up their
own company, and they designed equipment that was intended to
reflect a radio signal off the ionized trail behind a
meteor and they could skip your a ham radio operator,

(18:05):
I seem to recall, yes, so you understand the principle
of skipping a signal. The trail behind meteors is extremely
hot from the friction and the exothermic reaction of striking
the atmosphere, and it hit me like a landslide that
if they could detect trails behind meteors with their equipment,

(18:28):
what else could they detect that reflected radio waves? And
I was ecstatic because I felt I'd solved a major
problem of eupology, namely detecting UFOs with radar. And I
wrote an article for the Muffon Journal, their monthly publication,
describing my proposal, thinking that I was going to be

(18:51):
overwhelmed with interest, by overwhelmed by people who recognized the
power of that technology. And after my article was published,
I got one communication. I think I didn't describe the
technology clearly enough so my reading audience could understand what

(19:12):
I was talking about. And then in nineteen sixty four
or nineteen ninety four, No, I think it was nineteen
ninety Well four years.

Speaker 4 (19:22):
Later anyway, Yes, I wrote another article.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
I'd been invited to speak at the Moufon Symposium in Denver,
and I decided I didn't want to talk about more cases.
Taking a UFO siting case to a Moufon symposium is
like carrying a cup of salt water to Honolulu. What
good does it do? Yeah, So I decided I wanted

(19:47):
to do something radical, I decided I'd do it on
passive radar. The reason I tell this story is I
wrote about an eight or ten page article describing my proposal,
and it was published in the proceedings of the symposium
on the sixth of July. I think it was two

(20:10):
thousand and two, if I'm not mistaken. The day my
article was published, I got a call caller ID said
Central Intelligence Agency. I picked it up, and it was
a senior executive at the CIA with a PhD who
called me up and he said, Peter, you don't know me,
but I know you from your appearances on coast to coast.

(20:33):
He said, I just had a retired colleague of mine
at the Central Intelligence Agency put a copy of the
synopsis of your article on my desk. He said, I'm
calling to congratulate you. If you build a system you
propose in your article, you'll be successful in answering the
question of whether UFOs are real or not. He didn't

(20:56):
say you'll detect the UFOs. I suspect that would have
had him violating a secrecy agreement. But he was very
upbeat and very flattering about my article. And we finally
have a gentleman on Colorado who's built a prototype of
it and it seems to work. I think it's going
to revolutionize ufology because we'll be able to detect UFOs

(21:21):
at high altitude and traveling very fast. I'm very excited
about the project.

Speaker 1 (21:26):
I'd be excited once everything gets up and running real good.
I'd love to hear how it's working. It's an amazing
idea that you came up with.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
It's really very simple. I'm surprised that it took so
long for somebody to recognize that you could use radiated
radio and television signals as a form of radar. And
I'm very excited about it. And perhaps I'll report initial
results on midnight frequency at a later date. I'd love

(21:59):
to do that.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
I'd be thrilled. That would be fantastic.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
The thing that really surprises me, though, is that so
few people have expressed an interest in it. It answers
the question of whether UFOs are real or not. And
I had a terribly difficult time trying to get funding
or any kind of interest in the project at all,
but things seem to be changing a bit.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
How do you go about with the funding? Is it?

Speaker 3 (22:25):
Is it?

Speaker 1 (22:26):
Even with the reporting center. How are you funded principally
by me? Do you take donations?

Speaker 2 (22:32):
We do, indeed, and we're a Washington state nonprofit, but
we don't have five oh one C three status, so
for the time being, you can't deduct contributions. But people
have made very generous contributions that have been crucially important
in paying the phone bill and keeping the lights on

(22:52):
and paying computer connections. So we welcome even small donations
or a big.

Speaker 1 (22:59):
Help some one want of the donate. Uh. Is there
a place on the website with information or.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
There is they can I think there's a box they
can fill out and forward money through PayPal to our
corporate account, and they can always mail a check our
addresses on our website. Again that website addresses ufocenter dot com.
And thank you for asking that question.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
Well, no problem, And I also have a link to
your website on my site, so they can always go
to Midnight Frequency dot net and click on your link.
You let's do our first break and then uh we'll
come back.

Speaker 5 (23:40):
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(24:48):
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(25:10):
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(25:32):
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Speaker 2 (28:20):
I can see your line, Baty sadris.

Speaker 4 (28:26):
Where you do what you don't confess some your better decays.

Speaker 5 (28:34):
The line creeping around the best is.

Speaker 4 (28:40):
Some better decays.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
All right, Welcome back to Midnight Frequency Radio and our
guest Peter Davenport. Mister Davenport, there's some things about the
Phoenix lights you'd like to elaborate on.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah, I'd love welcome that I've mentioned earlier in this program,
and I like to talk about it, because in my opinion,
it's probably the most dramatic appearance of UFOs that's occurred
in the last thirty one years that I've been collecting cases.
I will never forget that night. I got a phone
call at about seven point fifteen Seattle time. I was

(29:19):
working out of Seattle at the time, and a retired
police officer said that he had been leaving. He left
his home in his pickup truck and was driving through
his neighborhood and he looked to the west and he
saw I think it was six lights streaking across the sky.
It was so bizarre an appearance that had caused him

(29:40):
to turn his truck around and go back home out
of concern for his family safety. But that incident lasted
for at least two hours, and it was the most
dramatic UFO event I can think of at this moment.
One of the interesting aspects. After I'd worked all night,
as I mentioned earlier in this program, on the night
of the the Phoenix lights, I turned the telephone off

(30:02):
at about three point fifteen or so in the early
morning Friday morning. Thought I had turned it off, and
I went to bed, and the phone rang. I didn't
want to take another report, but I'm glad I did.
It was a call from an air Force airman US
air Force airman who had been on duty at the

(30:23):
air base just west of Phoenix, and he proceeded to
tell me that he had been involved in a scramble
of two F fifteen c's that had been part of
the US Air Force one and Air Force two protection Group.
And I have reason to believe that the two pilots
who scrambled earlier that day had been part of the

(30:44):
detail that a chaperone President Clinton's flight from Washington CC
down to Florida to allow the President to go golfing
with Greg Norman, the professional golfer from Australia, and this
airman had helped the scramble of the aircraft and the
retrieval of them when they parked on their hot pads.

(31:05):
At least one of the pilots could not get out
of the cockpit under his own steam, so his ground
crew opened the canopy, undid his strassace straps and proceeded
to lift him out of the cockpit and get him
upright on the platform beside the aircraft. All this while

(31:26):
the pilot was describing to them what he had just seen,
and at one point he described an object so large
that had stretched from the left side of his canopy
to the right side of his canopy in the night sky.
They approached it from the north and at that point
many people on the ground were looking up at an

(31:46):
object that intersected an arc of about one hundred and
fifty five degrees between one hundred and thirty one hundred
and fifty and the pilot reported that he had intercepted
it at nine thousand feet above ground level. Any of
our listeners who've had trigonometry or who work with trigonometry
will tell you that allows you to calculate the actual

(32:09):
size of the object. That object, if our data is correct,
nine thousand feet above and at least one hundred and
thirty five degrees of arc, that describes an object that
was eight point two to three miles in width.

Speaker 1 (32:23):
God, that's huge.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
Everybody who saw them, and there were either five or
six objects that hovered and streaked over the Phoenix area
that night, but everybody who saw one expressed an opinion
that they were a huge craft, almost indescribably large. A
lot of people attempted to estimate their size but they
didn't know the distance to the object, so their estimate

(32:48):
is probably without foundation, but nine thousand feet above ground level,
subtending an arc of let's say, one hundred and thirty
five degrees, and that translates to an object over eight
miles from wing tip to wing tip.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
I guess the government stood behind their statement that it
was flares as a cover up.

Speaker 4 (33:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
One thing I pointed out in our article I wrote
about the Phoenix lights I think for the Mouffon Journal
was that was the night the President Clinton spent the
night at Greg Norman's home in Florida, during which he
was eating a hamburger and drinking a soft drink when
allegedly the tendons in his knee gave out. The President

(33:30):
had to be evacuated from that home back to Washington,
DC's undergo surgery. My suspicion is the President may have
been moved not because he was injured, but because of
what was going on in Phoenix. People recognized well the
Air Force base out west of Phoenix chained their gates
shut with chains. They sealed the base off during the

(33:53):
scramble and during the sighting of those six craft that
loitered over Phoenix was quite a night, and.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
I believe the media dropped The media dropped the ball
on the reporting of that too, didn't they. I think
Art had made comments that same night.

Speaker 4 (34:09):
They sure did.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
There was one young reporter from Prescott, Arizona. I think
it was the Prescott Courier, if I'm not mistaken. I've
forgotten the journalist's name, but her article in that newspaper
was the only article that came out for quite some time.
How the government is able to convince people to either
not report news or to report false news is beyond me.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
That is me too. Were there any other military reports,
I'm only aware of the ones where they were just
reported it was flaars. Did anything else come out at
a later date.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
Well, there was a lot of subsequent investigation. I'd like
to compliment the director of MUFON. He did a great
job of meeting with people and collecting data initially very
soon after the event. Also, I'd like to compliment the
late doctor Michael Tanner who did the same, working together
with Jim Dillotoso, and they went out numerous times to

(35:07):
meet with actual eyewitnesses. Well, the eyewitnesses were standing on
the point where they had been located where they were
located during the event, and they succeeded in recovering a
lot of data which would have been lost otherwise if
they hadn't gotten it soon after the event.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Do you think that disclosures that were on to break
a disclosure with all the government hearings and stuff, or
do you think they're still trying to Well, it's a
parent they're still trying to cover things up because most
of the answers they get into Senate hearings as people
saying I can't discuss it or I'm not at liberty

(35:46):
to say so.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, I don't understand the government's position at all. All
I can conclude is it's one based on panic. They're
alarmed by what's going on. And I'd go back to
that gentleman from the CIA I mentioned earlier in this
program who said that if we build equipment and monitor

(36:07):
events in the atmosphere, it will answer the question of
whether UFOs are real or not. He's well known in
the UFO community and he seems to be genuinely interested
in the UFO subject. That's been the case for decades now.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
So how do you deal with the negative scientific skepticism
of UFOs and ufps.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
Well, I'll give them a little time on site data,
such as the Phoenix Lights case. By the way, I'd
like to interject something i'd left out. A one of
the most important investigators in the Phoenix area of the
Phoenix Lights, doctor Lynn Keitai, a physician who's all but
abandoned her medical career in order to continue to collect

(36:55):
data from eye witnesses. She's done a magnificent job. But
back to your question, Carl, I encounter skeptics once in
a while, but I don't spend a lot of time
with them. I invite them to look at the data
and talk to people who've seen them allegedly, but I
just don't have the time to endure their naivete and

(37:19):
the subject of UFOs.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
Yeah, it's probably just better to stay away from the naysayers,
I would imagine.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
Yeah, although I believe that the frequency or the volume
of naysayers and skeptics is diminishing, people are beginning to
understand that not everybody who claims to have seen a
UFO is mentally imbalanced. A lot of these people are
very skilled. I've received reports from former astronauts, from military pilots,

(37:49):
and One type of case that I'm seeing much more
frequently than used to be the case is reports from
airline pilots and co pilots. Over the last roughly a
year or two, I've gotten a number of sightings reports
from senior aircraft pilots, senior pilots, and they're mystified by
what they've seen. One thing I'd add one of the

(38:11):
if people are interested in seeing high quality reports, they
can sort our data and select those cases that are
submitted by pilots, and they can read pilot reports all
day long. They're quite a number of them. I'm sorry
to interrupt, you go ahead.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
That's okay on a pilot. So are they still reluctant
to report or they just finally pass that point and
they report what they see.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
There may be some out there who are recalcitrant and
don't want to get involved, and they're afraid of what
might happen to them or their career as pilots. I
find that a lot of pilots are more than happy
to talk about what they saw. It brings one case
to mind from the I think it was about nineteen
ninety six or ninety seven. A young pilot was flying

(38:57):
from Nantucket Island out east of Massachusetts, and he was
on his way to grinner Field in southeastern New Hampshire,
my old stopping grounds, and they had a big build
up of weather over Boston, so the pilot had to
skirt around thunderstorms by going west of Boston over Rhode Island.

(39:19):
And when he was just passing over the shore of
Rhode Island, he looked out ahead of his aircraft. It
was a Pilottis PC twelve transporter, single engine Trents turboprop.
He was carrying passengers on this particular flight. He looked
out ahead of his aircraft and he saw what he
thought was a soaring bird, a large soaring bird, And

(39:39):
he glanced down in his cockpit for just a second
and looked back at this substruction to make sure he
was going to fly around it. And then he realized
that it wasn't stationary. It was streaking at his aircraft.
And he said he saw it for only up close,
only for a few seconds, but it looked like an
egg shaped object, charcoal black, no emblems, no insignias, no engines,

(40:05):
no windows, no means of propulsion whatsoever. And it's street.
He estimated that it passed within fifty vertical feet of
his starboard wing. He got on the radio and called
air traffic Control and asked them if they had anything
on radar. Initially they said no, we don't see anything.

(40:25):
A few seconds later they come back on and say,
we see it now. It has reversed its course and
it's tracking your aircraft. We got the FAA official audio
on that one, and you can hear them state that
it reversed its course of travel very suddenly and was
tracking the aircraft. So the pilot called the hotline and

(40:46):
gave us an excellent report, really very exciting.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
How many of these supports do you think are reversed
engineered crafts by our own government as opposed to extraterrestrial origin.

Speaker 4 (40:58):
There may be some of those.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
Get people will report anything that they can't I first
identify reported as a UFO. That's a good point, Carl,
and I suspect, well, I know people have reported the
B two bomber as a UFO who are not familiar
with that aircraft, the type that was used on the
attack on Iran.

Speaker 4 (41:19):
Several months ago.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
But most of the time, in talking with the witness,
you can get enough information to give you a fair
chance of identifying the object if it is something of
terrestrial origin.

Speaker 4 (41:33):
There may be some projects that we don't know about, but.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
Like Bob Lasar's experience at X four.

Speaker 4 (41:40):
Oh yeah, I know Bob and I hold his story
in very high regard.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
I do too, and i'd really like to have him
on the show. But he's been on with Art so
many times and George Knapp and other interviewers. He may
be passed all that. But he's got a new I
don't know if it's going to be a movie or
documentary called the Bob Lazar Story S four. I'd like

(42:04):
to have him all discussing that, because they actually made
computer generated three D images of S four and the
craft that were there. That should be really interesting.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
On the subject of that piece of property out in Nevada.
I just received a book, a thick paperback book. I
don't know the title of it, from a friend. He
saw it in a bookstore and thought of me, mailed
me a copy, and yet to get into it. But
it's a much more complex story than I had allowed for.

(42:39):
Area fifty one has been carved up into a number
of different areas designated or devoted to different projects.

Speaker 4 (42:46):
I was not aware of that.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
I really wasn't either till you know he started talking
about s Ford and gave the coordinates and you could
locate it on a map. It's close to pop Post Lake.
If you can send me an email or something in
the future whence you get it, when you get the
name of that book that you were saying, I would
like to find a copy and read it myself.

Speaker 4 (43:06):
I'll do that tomorrow, Thank you, sir.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
There are a number of reports I'd like to share
with our audience if I may.

Speaker 1 (43:14):
Oh, yes, sir, Yes, sir.

Speaker 4 (43:15):
I've got a.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
Seven page document I generated with just two line summaries
of some of the most exciting, well documented cases I've
covered or processed over the last thirty one years. One
stands out in my mind. It's from Clintna, Alaska, nineteen
thirty six October nineteen thirty six. But Clutta was an

(43:40):
Indian village out east of Anchorage at that time. It's
no longer a residential area, I'm told, but two gentlemen
who are employees of the Conservation CCC where they worked
a Saturday and the only days they had off for Sundays,

(44:00):
so they were in the habit of leaving their camp
in a kludna in the early evening hours of Saturdays
and hitch hiking into Anchorage. They would spend the night
in the jail. They'd have a meal or go to
a bar, or do something entertaining. On this particular night
in October of nineteen thirty six, that they were walking

(44:23):
to the west a little worried about their welfare because
it was a cold night. There was snow on the ground,
and they hadn't dressed warmly enough for the trip into Anchorage.
They looked to the west and suddenly saw a blue
green light, apparently the size of the moon in the
night sky, streaking towards them, and it got close to them,

(44:45):
and suddenly stopped and hovered above them.

Speaker 4 (44:48):
In the night sky.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
And the next thing they knew, they were waking up
in covered in snow. They'd been buried in snow, apparently
to protect them from the cold. Quite a remarkable story.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
It is, that's wild.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
Many people feel or believe that the UFO phenomenons began
in the nineteen forties nineteen forty seven, for example, with
the alleged crash Saucer, But it appears to me that
based on many of the reports that have been submitted
by older folks that has been going on for a
long time before that, we're just beginning to get a

(45:26):
glimpse into what we're dealing with.

Speaker 1 (45:28):
Do you get a lot of similar stories to Travis.

Speaker 4 (45:31):
Walton's similar stories?

Speaker 1 (45:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
I know Travis well and I hold him in extremely
high regard. I've listened to his stories for probably twenty
or twenty five years of his experience, and they're always
the same. I consider him to be a truth speaker.
He experienced something that night that was very real.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
His coworkers did too, but they ended up getting accused
of murders.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
He, Travis apparently was taken up into a mother ship.
I think the story is.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
Yeah, I think he was experimented on and then after
a period of time, they brought him back.

Speaker 4 (46:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:12):
I've sat over dinner with him and listened to his
story and listen to his thoughts on what happened to
him and so on, and it's just a remarkable story.
It's one of two or three events in the UFO
community that I think is the leading candidate for being
the most dramatic case we know of.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
Yeah, you have some other stories you'd like to tell
us about.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
I'm sorting through one hundred and seventy thousand trying to
pick up the good ones.

Speaker 1 (46:43):
That's a lot of literature to go through.

Speaker 4 (46:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
One story I'd like to share with our audience comes
from Challice, Idaho, and I don't have the date in
front of me. I think it was two thousand and two.
A group of four men from ben Doregon had a
hunting area that they visited every hunting season. They'd done
this for twenty years, and one night they'd been out.

(47:09):
They weren't hunting so much as photographing game. It was
just before the hunting season, and they were in their
trailer watching movies that they'd taken of animals during the day,
and it came time to prepare dinner. So one of
the four members of the hunting party slipped out of

(47:31):
the trailer and started walking towards his pickup truck, and
he put his foot on the rear tire and swung
himself up. As he swung up into the bed of
the truck, his flashlight swept across the night sky, and
his peripheral vision picked up the fact that there was
something solid above him, which caused him to fall off

(47:56):
the truck, and he saw a very large, try angular
shaped craft hovering directly above their camp, probably one hundred
meters in length or so, so it was a very
sizable craft. The other three members of the party thought
he'd been attacked by some predator. They came barely out

(48:16):
of their trailer to help him, and he just pointed up,
and they looked up, and all four of them saw
the triangular craft, and at that moment it turned on
all its lights and it started moving to the northeast
towards fairly high mountains, relatively slowly. It wasn't in any hurry, apparently.

(48:38):
And that report is on our website Challice, Idaho, which
is in the northern part of the state. It's very
rural area, I'm told, but I've spoken with two of
the witnesses and they're very convincing. There's no doubt in
my mind. But what their story is true is really
a remarkable story. And the next day, well the night

(49:02):
of the sighting, two brothers who were in the party
decided they didn't want to stay out at the remote
area all night, so they jumped in their trucks, loaded
their deer rifles and drove into the nearest town, which
I think was Chalice. They spent the night in a
motel room. Feeling much safer, they drove back to the

(49:23):
camp the next morning, not knowing what they would find,
only to discover that just prior to their arrival, two
F sixteen jets had gone over the camp at very
high speed. The two guys who spent the night in
the motel had called the Air Force and apprised them
of the situation, and they think that that explains the

(49:46):
presence of those F sixteens. The Air Force was apparently
very interested in what they could what the witnesses could
tell the Air Force. It was a dramatic case.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
It sounds like it. Are there any of the cases
stick out to you as really interesting?

Speaker 2 (50:04):
Yes, I'd go back to the nineteen thirties again. This
is probably the year of the year after the event Clutna,
Alaska that I mentioned a few moments ago. Fontana, California,
three young boys were returning from a trip to the
local movie house to watch a movie. They were walking

(50:27):
through orange groves and suddenly the whole area around them
was illuminated intensely brightly from something that was hovering above them,
and they looked up and saw a craft projecting a
very bright light on them. Suddenly the light went out
and the craft streaked off and disappeared in the night sky.

Speaker 4 (50:49):
It was a good case.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
Do you have people in the field that help you
with the reportings and stuff that volunteer?

Speaker 2 (50:57):
Unfortunately not wish we had a facility, the staff and
a budget, but all of the work is currently being
done by two people, by me and by Christian step
In who's worked as the webmaster for the last thirty years.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
Well, if you have anything in northeast Arkansas, let me
know and I'll help as much as I can possibly
do it.

Speaker 4 (51:23):
Oh, I thank you for the offer. Very kind of you.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
I'll make sure that if we have any reports from
that neck of the woods, we'll turn them over to you.
Do you do investigation?

Speaker 1 (51:36):
I can, and I can be objective, so you know
you'll get a decent report from me.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
Yeah, well, that's good to know. We may come banging
on your door before you know it.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
I need to do my last break and then if
maybe we can come back and close out, or if
you have some more stuff you'd like to discuss, we
can do that.

Speaker 4 (51:57):
Okay, good, I've got a lot of stuff.

Speaker 1 (51:59):
Okay, we'll be right back. You've got about five minutes
if you need to step away to okay, thank you.

Speaker 6 (52:48):
This is dark Matter News. I'm Joshua Stark. A new
look at eerie hauntings reveal a more earthly culprit behind
many ghost stories, carbon monoxide poisoning. According to research published
on IFL Science, toxicologists are finding that symptoms commonly associated
with hauntings hallucinations, sense of dread, pressure on the chest,

(53:12):
strange sounds may be caused by low toxic exposures to
carbon monoxide and other gases. Historical case documents back this up.
One nineteen twenty one report describes a family in a
haunted house scenario pale children, the father seeing a woman
in black, the mother dreaming of being strangled. All ultimately

(53:35):
traced to a faulty furnace and carbon monoxide leakage. The
hallmarks match classic ghost phenomena. More recently, writer Carry Poppy
experienced auditory hallucinations and a crushing chest feeling at home.
After investigation, she discovered a gas leak. She later admitted

(53:56):
the symptoms aligned closely with known carbon monoxide poison effects.
Experts emphasize not all haunting stem from poisoning. Some may
be genuinely psychological, some hoaxes, others sleep paralysis or suggestibility
or something real. But the link is strong enough that

(54:18):
toxicologist Albert Done argues it helps explain the proliferation of
haunted house reports in the Victorian era, where indoor stoves,
gas lighting, and poor ventilation were common. So on your
next ghost hunt, be safe. Check those carbon dioxide levels.
That's it for dark Matter News. Catch up with us

(54:39):
on the Midnight Frequency Facebook page from Memphis, Tennessee. I'm
Joshua Stark.

Speaker 8 (54:49):
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(55:39):
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(56:03):
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Once again that c c R a ne dot com.

Speaker 3 (56:16):
And I heard as it were the noise of thunder
one of the four beasts sing, come and see and
usaw and to hold.

Speaker 4 (56:27):
A white horse.

Speaker 9 (56:39):
There's a man going round taking names, and he decides
who to free and who to blame.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
Everybody won't be treated.

Speaker 4 (56:51):
All the sing.

Speaker 9 (56:54):
There will be of golden letter reaching down when the
man who comes around the hairs on your arm will
stand up.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
Welcome back to my night frequency radio and our guests,
Peter Davenport and mister Davenport, you have some more stories
you'd like to let us hear about.

Speaker 3 (57:19):
I sure do.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
If fact, I have a surfeit of reports, I can
fill up a week but I'd like to return to
that very generous the introduction you made at the beginning
of the program. You mentioned that I had investigated the
so called incident at Exeter. Exeter, New Hampshire is a
town in the southeastern part of the state. I graduated

(57:42):
from high school in nineteen sixty five, and I spent
that summer of sixty five working for the local newspaper,
the Dairy News. And interestingly, the editor, mister Conrad Quimby,
and I had argued about UFOs for a long time.
I had told him about the one I saw for

(58:03):
Saint Louis Airport that I described in the early part
of this program, and he was one of the hardest
skeptics I know.

Speaker 4 (58:12):
Well.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
As fate would have it, on the third of September
nineteen sixty five, a bunch of people saw a disc
shaped craft over southeastern New Hampshire. It's become to know
to be known as the Incident at Exeter. At Boston
columnist John Fuller wrote a book on it, entitled The
Incident at Exeter. It's an excellent coverage of what happened.

(58:37):
The culmination of the sighting was quite interesting. There were
two Exeter police officers who had been taken out. You'd
chaperoned a eighteen year old hitchhiker who had seen this craft.
They were standing on a very rural road in New
Hampshire and they watched a disc flit around about a

(59:00):
forty acre field for ten or fifteen minutes, and it
was a very dramatic case. I highly recommend the book
Incident at Exeter by John G.

Speaker 4 (59:09):
Fuller.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
It's one of my prized library books on the subject
of the UFOs.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
Is that available on Amazon?

Speaker 4 (59:16):
Probably is.

Speaker 2 (59:17):
I don't know how many were printed, but I have
a copy myself.

Speaker 1 (59:21):
I'll try to snag me up one if it's available.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
Another case I'd like to discuss comes to us from
September ninth, nineteen ninety four. I had just taken over
the hotline and I got a call one morning from
a school nurse in northern California who said that a
young girl had walked into her office at the school
talking about being taken aboard a craft and the little

(59:47):
men that asked her if she wanted to take a.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
Ride, and I'd say, yeah, sure do Yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:54):
I'm not sure I want to go on one of them.
Despite my interest in the subject, But the reason I
mentioned this it had some very solid witnesses the night
of the night before the morning encounter by this girl
at a bus stop. There were several reports from the
Santa Barbara area. The FAA had reported to us that

(01:00:17):
pilots were reporting lights streaking by their aircraft. And the
other reason I cite this case in Northern California again,
this is September ninth, nineteen ninety four. There was an
incident in Rhodesia called the Aerial Case, and it involves
school children and it occurred a week to the day
following the incident in Northern California. Children actually saw creatures

(01:00:43):
and saw craft outside the boundaries of their rural school
in Rhodesia. So people are seeing things all the time.
And if it were not for somebody, some poor sade
like me who's a slave to the UFO phenomenon, this
information would be lost forever.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
I'm afraid it's good that the people that do come forward.
I'm sure it's extremely helpful.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
Yeah, I'm the real heroes in the UFO hotline or
the people who call one for one thing, but even
more than that, the people who follow up with an
excellent written report that we can post to our website.
If it were not for those people who are willing

(01:01:29):
to share their time and devoted to capturing the information
while it's fresh, we wouldn't have much at all.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
I'm afraid I've seen lights in the sky before, but
I'm not you know what it could have been, venus
or another to find it. But if I ever see
a UFO that I can't explain, you'll be the first
to get a report from me.

Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
Yeah, there are many things that people see that they
can't explain that aren't alien spacecraft. But I'm searching. If
I sound like i'm stumbling, I'm searching for some of
the better stories, some of the better reports.

Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
Oh yes, sir, take your time.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
February twenty fifth, nineteen ninety six. The young man was
driving near Doylestown, Pennsylvania, when he saw some lights streaking
towards the van he was driving, and suddenly the engine
stopped inexplicably. Well, engines stopped for a host of reasons,
but the interesting aspect of this event was after the

(01:02:31):
lights had passed over his van without activating the key
the starter, the engine started running again. It had stopped
and spontaneously began running. Another case that I had actually
investigated comes to us from February.

Speaker 4 (01:02:48):
Twenty fifth of nineteen ninety nine. This is a good one.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
I include this one in my public presentations. February twenty fifth,
ninety nine, fourteen or perhaps as many as sixteen forestry
workers were out west of Mount Saint Helen's in the
state of Washington, and their foreman, who was overseeing the
planting of seedling trees in the mountains, got up to

(01:03:14):
blow his whistles for lunch, and he looked to the
east and he saw what he thought was an ultra
light aircraft, or perhaps a paraglider. He quickly called the
attention of all his workers to it. Some of them
were already looking at it, and they quickly realized after
a short period of time that it wasn't a parag

(01:03:37):
lighter at all. It was some kind of bizarre craft
that was hugging the contour of the trees, tops of
the trees. And these workers had been watching a herd
of elk down below them in a small valley, and
suddenly that herd of elk broke for heavy timber, ostensibly
to get more cover. They sensed this object. All of

(01:04:00):
them except one loan. They think it was an adull
female elk broke for cover, but this object went after
that loan elk got directly above it a call, according
to the witnesses, and lifted it off the ground, at
which point the elk appeared, to the witnesses to just
suddenly go limp. It was either unconscious or perhaps dead,

(01:04:21):
and it carried the The elk just disappeared into the
ventral surface of the craft. The craft then moved slowly
towards the herd and bumped into the tops of trees,
as almost as if it could not get over them.

Speaker 4 (01:04:36):
Well it did.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
It backed away from the trees, and it did a
three sixty degree turn and suddenly accelerated, just like a
marble's being shot out of a slingshot, to the north
and disappeared from their sight. I talked with six of
the witnesses, and they were very convincing.

Speaker 1 (01:04:56):
I don't doubt that they were telling the truth. YEP,
A lot of cattle mutilations are extraterrestrial related.

Speaker 4 (01:05:04):
I have that sense of it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
Carl, The absence of blood seems significant. The absence of
the apparent incisions on the animals seem to be mysterious,
something that couldn't be duplicated even by a skilled surgeon.
But I don't have I haven't investigated many cases, and

(01:05:26):
I just don't know. I hesitate to take a position
without having more information.

Speaker 1 (01:05:31):
I will understand that. Do you have any more stories
or events?

Speaker 4 (01:05:35):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:05:36):
Yeah, I'm scanning a list here of reports.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
While you're looking through that. If anyone had the interest
in getting involved with UFO research, would you have any
advice to recommend them?

Speaker 2 (01:05:52):
Yes, I'd most of all encourage them not to get
too deeply into it, because it's very difficult to make
a living at it unless you can support yourself through
other means, and it's a lot of work and not
always gratifying work. But if you have the hook set
in your jaw for UFOs, I think probably the best

(01:06:12):
thing to do is to contact your local MOFON chapter
and become an investigator. MOFON does a lot of good work.
I used to be a member of it. I used
to be a state section director.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
Does Arkansas have a MOFON chapter to Arkansas? Yes, sir,
I suspect they do.

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
I don't know who the state director is, but you
could probably find them by doing a scan of the internet.

Speaker 1 (01:06:39):
I'll do that probably right after the show this evening.
Of course, I've got some editing due, and you get
this all uploaded. But find another event.

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
One I mentioned airline pilots in the year two thousand
and I don't know the date for this. I could
find it if I had more time. Two pilots were
flying the east over Dallas. They were flying from the
east coast or west coast to one to Florida and
one to I think Virginia if I'm not mistaken, and

(01:07:11):
they were in train. They were about twenty miles apart,
and they suddenly both became aware of lights to their
left as they went east, lights that were converging on
their aircraft at very high speed. It alarmed both of them.
One was a former A ten pilot, a Warthog pilot
for the Air Force. The other one was an F

(01:07:32):
sixteen pilot. And these lights approached both of them from
the north from the left, got alarmingly close to their
aircraft and just a matter of seconds and suddenly executed
what appeared to the pilots to be a right angle
turn to the east, accelerated and disappeared over the horizon

(01:07:52):
within a few seconds. So even twenty years ago, some
pilots were willing to report their self.

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
It's good that it was two of them because they
could collaborate, you know what they saw?

Speaker 2 (01:08:04):
Yeah, they were I had both of them on a
radio program. I don't think it was arts Coast to coast.
Might have been Jeff Rent. And I'm sorry my memory
isn't firing the way I'm accustomed to it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:18):
Oh, no, worries at all. Mine sometimes escapes me. So
I understand completely, and I'm sure the listeners do also. Yeah,
we're getting close to the bottom of the hour. Did
you have another event.

Speaker 2 (01:08:30):
Or yes, here's a good one. Merriweather County, Georgia, April thirteenth,
two thousand and three. Three adults were driving on the
outskirts of Merriweather in the rural part of Meriwether County, Georgia,
and the two of them were brother and sister driving

(01:08:51):
with a friend. The friend was driving the vehicle, the SUV,
and he looked in his rear view mirror and he
thought he was being stop by flashing lights on a
police car police cruiser, but he was quickly disabused of
that notion. He was being followed by a cluster of
small orbs about the size of a walnut that were

(01:09:16):
clustered up around his rear wind window. And before they
knew it, those orbs were on the inside of the vehicle.
They apparently got in passed through the windows through solid windows,
and they swarmed on the inside of the vehicle. And
the driver had had abdominal surgery shortly before this incident,

(01:09:40):
and a large number of these small orbs suddenly clustered
over the wound in his abdomen surgical wound, and then
equally quickly just disappeared. I don't know what to make
of this. I get a lot of strange material. Some
of it I believe, some I don't. But this is
a case I happened to believe. The people were very

(01:10:03):
high quality reporters, and I think they were probably telling
the truth.

Speaker 1 (01:10:09):
Did they cause healing or did they help the wound
heal or did they just it's like they were doing
an examinations to see why he had a decision.

Speaker 4 (01:10:21):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:10:22):
It's a good question. One of the frustrating aspects of
UFO work is more often than not, you get only
part of the story. This is why a written reporter
is so terribly important. Most people, as I mentioned earlier
in this program, just want to call the hotline and
chet chat. I call it about their sighting, But that

(01:10:46):
doesn't serve to capture all the fine detail surrounding his sighting.

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
I can understand. I'd probably prefer a written report myself.
You get more details. Yeah, in the center they do
it the better. That way, you know, remember everything.

Speaker 4 (01:11:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:04):
And the other reason eyesight people are annoyed when I
don't want to listen to it two hour version of
their UFO sighting for example, a long winded version.

Speaker 1 (01:11:15):
Yeah, I can understand that too.

Speaker 2 (01:11:18):
What many people don't stop to consider is the fact
that every time you tell the story, the facts are
at risk of being changed. You know that you've probably
seen the parlor games where they put ten people on
chairs right next to each other, and somebody whispers a
word into the sentence into the ear of the first person,

(01:11:41):
and that first person then turns to the second person
and ostensibly whispers the same thing. By the time it
go the story goes through ten participants, it's completely different.
Same is true of UFO reports. So the best thing
to do is if you believe you've seen UFO sit
down and write down everything you can remember about the sighting,

(01:12:05):
and then submit it to an organization like ours or
like moufon and capture the information and make it available
to the public. This is a job our government should
be doing but is not.

Speaker 3 (01:12:18):
Well.

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
It's like a police support. They want the victim to
write it down in their own words, what happened as
soon as you know, like as soon as they get
to the scene. That way, the memory is still fresh.

Speaker 2 (01:12:32):
They just stumbled upon a case. I'm surprised it didn't
come to the forefront of my mind earlier in the program.
The O'Hare Airport case in Chicago, Illinois, November seventh, two
thousand and six, dozens of airline personnel and even FAA
personnel in the tower saw a disk hovering above Gates
C seventeen at O'Hare Airport, and it hovered there for

(01:12:56):
quite a long time. The pilot and co pilot of
an airliner that was just about to leave the gate
opened their side windows and poked their heads out and
saw the disc directly above them. Neither one of them
would talk to us, unfortunately, but it was a celebrated
case and people highly experienced in the aviation industry saw

(01:13:19):
that object and were shocked by it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:22):
Did any bystanders see it?

Speaker 2 (01:13:24):
Not that we didn't receive any reports from passengers unfortunately,
but I suspect that there many people who saw it
and didn't report it. Yeah, I'd like to revisit that issue.
I made the point earlier that few people report their sightings.

(01:13:44):
I get calls all day long from people who are
in their sixties, seventies, eighties, and nineties who saw UFOs
as children or adults and never reported it and wanted
to know what they could do about it. Many people
are interested to know that we're interested in older cases
or not. My response to that is absolutely, we're interested

(01:14:07):
in them. In fact, some of those cases are even
more interesting the more recent cases. So if we have
any listeners who've seen UFOs but who have not reported them,
they would urge them to go to our website or
get somebody to lead them to our website ufocenter dot
com and capture that data. HAVE heard many stories about

(01:14:33):
people whose parents or grandparents have passed away who used
to tell dramatic stories to their family members about UFOs
they'd allegedly seen, but they didn't write it down.

Speaker 4 (01:14:47):
If it's not written down, it doesn't count.

Speaker 1 (01:14:49):
I'd recommend that to everybody too. If you see one,
write of it down as some as possible. That way
you don't forget any details.

Speaker 2 (01:14:58):
I'm looking at a case on this list I alluded
to earlier and takes me back to Saint Louis June first,
twenty twelve. The Saint Louis law enforcement officer and his
wife and daughter were driving south from Saint Louis on
an interstate I think it's Interstate fifty five if I'm
not mistaken, and they saw a cluster of orange objects

(01:15:20):
streaking at the ahead of them from the west, passing
in front of their car. They didn't know what they were,
but during that overflight of the interstate there was a
major accident and the police officer had to proceed to
work as a helping the victims of the accident. It
was a good case, and the police officer was it

(01:15:44):
was a very solid witness I mentioned earlier. Here's another
case from Athens, Texas, July fifth, twenty thirteen. A former
US astronaut who'd been a fighter pilot in his earlier
career and later an airline pilot watches a six rum
lights passed directly overhead, moving from east to west. A
few years ago, the first case I remember of so

(01:16:09):
called orbs was from Tinley Park, Illinois, near Chicago. Clusters
of orange or red lights were seen maneuvering relative to
one another and moving in the night sky. And I
don't know how many reports we have, but it's many
of so called orbs or clusters of red lights. It's

(01:16:32):
an interesting phenomenon and we have no as far as
I know, nobody's come up with any adequate explanation.

Speaker 4 (01:16:39):
For what they are.

Speaker 1 (01:16:40):
Yeah, because it's not aviation lights.

Speaker 4 (01:16:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:44):
Another case I'd like to share with our audience comes
from Glendale, Arizona. I mentioned it because after I took
over the hotline in July of nineteen ninety four, once
we got the hotline hooked up to my home phone,
the first report I took over the hotline was from Glendale, Arizona.
Makes me a little nostalgic to think of this, but

(01:17:07):
an Arizona Highway Patrol officer off duty or in retirement,
I don't know which, was standing inside his home looking
to the north and he saw orange light move rapidly
from east to west. It was so dramatic. He rushed
outside to see what had caused the phenomenon, and he

(01:17:27):
proceeded to watch another one hundred and fifty. He thought
the number was orange lights go streaking across his property
at very high speed. He was shaken by it. He
was a very good witness. In fact, we find most
military and police personnel, or some of the best witnesses
we find together with airline pilots.

Speaker 4 (01:17:51):
I'm looking for another good Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:53):
We getting any reports from submarine personnel with the underwater side, yes.

Speaker 4 (01:18:01):
In fact, that brings to mind an incident. I used
to be a.

Speaker 2 (01:18:05):
Skier before I fell ill, and I think it was
mid January of nineteen ninety three. It was just shortly
before Bill Clinton was inaugurated president. I met a fellow
who had been a submariner at a friend's house, and
when he heard my interests in UFOs. This is prior

(01:18:26):
to my taking over the hotline. He had served aboard
a US submarine Navy submarine, and he asserts that at
one time they were on routine patrol and suddenly the
entire submarine went dark and they lost all the power
in the sub to include emergency lights. They have emergency lights,

(01:18:46):
such as if the power system failed, the emergency lights,
which are battery powered automatically come on.

Speaker 4 (01:18:54):
They did not.

Speaker 2 (01:18:54):
They were in total darkness in a submarine. How small
that lasted, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:19:00):
Yeah, that'd be spoky right there.

Speaker 2 (01:19:02):
Yeah, but he thought that was very strange, and I'd
love to get a report of that incident by anybody
who has.

Speaker 4 (01:19:10):
Witnessed to it.

Speaker 2 (01:19:11):
That's the point I'd like to revisit for a moment.
People often ask me how many reports there are, how
many incidents there are that could be reported, And I estimate,
based on my thirty years work, that out of somewhere
between ten and thirty thousand sightings of actual UFOs, all
of youufology manages to capture one of those incidents, one

(01:19:34):
out of up to thirty thousand in written form. Most
of the data is slipping away from us just because
for many reasons. Mostly people say, well, I don't want
people to think I'm not so I won't talk about
it or I won't write about it. But I explained
to them that we guarantee anonymity. If somebody submits a

(01:19:56):
report to the National UFO Reporting Center, we guarantee them
that we will not release their personal information name, address,
phone number, or any of that email adage.

Speaker 1 (01:20:07):
Yes, sir, that's a good deal too. A lot of
people are just like you say, they're afraid somebody. I
think they're crazy. Yeah, I wouldn't think that.

Speaker 2 (01:20:15):
But you know, here's another case I'd like to share.
Lake Curdline, just east of Spokane, pretty much in my backyard.
May sixth, twenty sixteen, a husband and wife were sleeping
on their sailboat in a place called Beauty Bay, which
is in northern Kurdline Lake Lake Curdlaine, I guess it's pronounced,

(01:20:37):
and they were suddenly awakened by a blinding, bright, blindingly
bright light streaming into the cabin of their anchored sailboat.
And the husband went out on the deck at his
wife's encouragement, and he saw a craft hovering between two
mountains to the west of Lake Curdlane suddenly streaked off
what that craft was. I have no idea, of course,

(01:21:00):
but there are a lot of excellent reports, and I
encourage anybody who's interested in this subject to go to
our website ufocenter dot com and just scroll through the
reports and sort them according to the subject that interests
you whether it be the type of craft scene or
the physical location. Again, as I've mentioned before, you can

(01:21:22):
sort those all of the reports by several criteria. There's
even a category devoted to sightings by pilots, which are
some of the better reports we've gotten.

Speaker 1 (01:21:33):
Yeah, you also have a UFO sighting map there, and
I've seen some drawings and representations of some of the
craft people have seen.

Speaker 2 (01:21:43):
Yeah, the problem with maps is it's so difficult unless
you're good at triangulation. It's difficult to know how far
away the object is. People can say, well, it was
over San Francisco, but it could have been over Oakland,
or it could have been over Saint Louis, because they
don't know how.

Speaker 4 (01:22:01):
Far away the object was.

Speaker 1 (01:22:03):
That's true.

Speaker 2 (01:22:04):
Unless you have two or more people looking at the
same target at the same time and measuring angles and
angles of elevation, it's very difficult to gauge accurately where
that object is. All you can do is plot where
the witness was. That's fairly easy to do.

Speaker 1 (01:22:23):
It's not like getting a number of people out trying
to triangulate a RIF signal.

Speaker 2 (01:22:29):
Yeah, we had one case in Port Angelis. I don't
know the data right off the top of my head.
But a former Canadian CF one OZ four pilot, a
Starfighter pilot, which is a type of fighter jet from
the fifties and sixties, was driving from his skiing area
up north of Vancouver, BC and he saw green blue

(01:22:52):
green light go streaking by his car. Well, that was
seen over Bangor Submarine Base. It stopped over Banger Submarine
Base and hovered there for quite some time, several minutes.
I think it must have scared the daylights out of
the US Navy because it's the major sub base of

(01:23:13):
the Northwest and there reputed to store what are euphemistically
referred to as special weapons there. And the object then
was reported from southern Washington. It was seen to accelerate
and streak down the highway. We have one report from
a driver on the Interstate five who saw it got

(01:23:35):
down to southern Washington and then it reversed its course
and streaked back north, disappearing from site. What it was
I have no idea, but it doesn't sound like it's
one of ours. Getting a little horse.

Speaker 1 (01:23:48):
Oh, I understand if you'd like, I could give the
close out questions and yeah, what do you hope the
legacy is of the UFO Reporting Center.

Speaker 2 (01:23:58):
Well, I hope people will. More people will learn about
it and access our site. I think the most the
part of it that I'm most pleased about is independence.
We have done something that government should have done but didn't.
Everybody's interested in the subject, and it appears that we're
dealing with a very real phenomenon that the government doesn't want.

Speaker 4 (01:24:22):
To talk about.

Speaker 2 (01:24:22):
And it's extremely important subject. After all, if our planet
is being visited by alien spacecraft, I think the American
people have a right to know that, no matter what
the outcome, they should be allowed to share in the
information that the government has. Government has crash saucers. I'd
like to know about that. Sorry to interrupt you, Carl.

Speaker 1 (01:24:44):
That's fine. I agree with you. I don't know if
they're worried about we can't handle it. I don't think
I would have trouble. You know, after all the years
that I've been alive and all the reports that I've
seen and read, I'm not freaked out about it. Of course,
I'm sure there may be some, but not as many
as they think.

Speaker 2 (01:25:02):
Yeah, I suspect Bob Lazaar's correct. We have crash saucers.
That we reversed engineered and the government hasn't shared that
with us.

Speaker 4 (01:25:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:25:12):
Again, it takes me back to that telephone call I
received on the sixth of July. I've forgotten the year,
I think it was two thousand and four from the
CIA officer. I said, if you build the equipment you
describe in your article, Peter, you will be successful in
answering the question of whether UFOs are real or not.

(01:25:35):
He was I think coaxing me to get that job
done and get the equipment made.

Speaker 1 (01:25:40):
Well, feel free if we have any more Phoenix like
type sightings to contact me, and when the passive radar
is up and running full blown, contact me and we'll
have you back on the air.

Speaker 4 (01:25:54):
That sounds good, already said, It's been a pleasure.

Speaker 2 (01:25:57):
It warms my heart to be here and to have
been invited onto the program, and it brings very fond
memories of art Bill Well.

Speaker 1 (01:26:07):
I appreciate that. I know I'm not as good as
he was, but I'm working on it.

Speaker 2 (01:26:12):
Oh, you're a gentleman to work with. I thank you, sir,
have a good style and been a pleasure to work
with you.

Speaker 1 (01:26:19):
I appreciate it. And like I say, anytime you want
to come back, you just bring me up.

Speaker 2 (01:26:23):
Thank you all righty, so very good. Thanks for the
time airtime. I apologize for my voice. As you know,
I'm suffering from a malady that makes talking a little difficult.
I hope people will give them allowance for that.

Speaker 1 (01:26:36):
I'm sure they will. And I sure appreciate you, you know,
taking as much time as you have. I know it's
sometimes tiring, but I will let you get on with
your evening and hope you get a good rest tonight,
and we'll speak to you at a later time.

Speaker 4 (01:26:52):
Thanks again for the airtime, Carl.

Speaker 1 (01:26:54):
It's been a pleasure, all right, sir, appreciate you.

Speaker 4 (01:26:57):
Good night, she

Speaker 1 (01:27:18):
Said,