Rob Shelsky May 30th 2026

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Good evening, night, travelers, and welcome once again to Midnight
Frequency Radio. I'm your host, Carl Richardson, coming to you
from the quiet shadows of the Ozark Foothills of northeast Arkansas,
where the night stretches a little longer, the mystery runs
a little deeper, and sometimes the things we think we
see in the darkness may be seeing us too. Tonight,

(01:00):
we're stepping into one of the most chilling and perplexing
mysteries of the paranormal world, a phenomenon reported across cultures, generations,
and continence. Shadow people who are what are they? Are
they spirits, interdimensional visitors, psychological manifestations, travelers slipping through the

(01:24):
cracks of time are something even stranger. For decades, witnesses
have described dark, human shaped figures standing silently in doorways,
lurking at the edge of bedrooms, appearing during moments of
heightened awareness sleep paralysis, are seemingly at random. Some report

(01:48):
feelings of overwhelming dread. Others claim these entities simply observed
before vanishing into thin air. But Tonight's guests believes there
may be more to these encounters than most people realize.
Joining us is author researcher and one of the most

(02:09):
prolific writers in the paranormal field. Rob Selsky. Rob is
an avid and eclectic writer who averages thousands of words
each day and has authored more than eighty books, covering
both fiction and nonfiction. With degrees in science. In a
lifelong fascination with unexplained phenomenon, Rob has explored subjects including UFOs, cryptids, ghost,

(02:37):
the Mandela Effect, time travel, alternate realities, government conspiracies, and
the paranormal in all of its forms. His work has
brought him to numerous radio and television programs, including multiple
appearances on Coast to Coast am Art Bell's Midnight in

(02:57):
the Desert, Mysterious Radio House of Mystery, and many others. Tonight,
we'll be discussing two subjects that may be more closely
connected than many realize, shadow people and time travel. Could
shadow entities actually be visitors from another time? Could temporal

(03:18):
distortions explain some paranormal encounters, And if time travel ever
becomes possible, what happens to history causality in our understanding
of reality itself. For the next hour or so, we'll
explore witness accounts, scientific theories, paranormal possibilities and some questions

(03:41):
that may leave you looking over your shoulder long after
tonight's broadcast ends turned down the lights. If an open mind,
and if you happen to catch a dark figure standing
quietly in the corner of the room tonight, you might
want to listen even more closely. This is night frequency radio,

(04:02):
and the journey into the unknown begins right after this.

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Speaker 3 (05:34):
Cornmesa coming to you at the speed of light in
the darkness. This is Midnight Frequency Radio with Carl Richardson.
Now here's Carl.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
Here I am, and here's our guest, Rob Shelskey. Welcome
Rob to Midnight Frequency Radio.

Speaker 4 (05:53):
Well, thank you for having me here. It's going to
be fun.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
I think everyone excuse me the night. I'm a little congested.
But Rob, what first started your fascination with the paranormal subjects.

Speaker 4 (06:06):
Well, I've always been interested in it. I remember arguing
with my father about there being UFOs when I was
six years old. I was quite upset about that because
he kept saying there's no such thing, and that really
ticked me off. But since then it just sort of grew.
My brother had missing time on a camping trip to
the desert out of San Diego one time with a friend.

(06:28):
He doesn't claim an abduction, but he does claim missing time,
and that's what really got me into it. He was investigating,
I started investigating, and it just grew from there.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
How did your scientific background influence your investigations.

Speaker 4 (06:42):
I like hard evidence because of that background, I want
to I've used this phrase before, but I like to
kick the tires of the UFO to make sure it's real,
if you know what I mean. So I tend to
be a little hard nosed about things, not to be
mean or aggressive, but simply because I want answers. The
answers for me have to have a sort of repeatable

(07:03):
evidence to them. So if someone says they experienced a
contact tee trip to another planet, I'd like to see
some photos of that, or I'd like to see some
kind of hard evidence for it. I'm just that sort
of person.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
Of all the subjects you research, do you continue to
be interested in the subject of shadow people.

Speaker 4 (07:26):
I am very interested in the subject of shadow people
and also UFOs, but also time travel, because I think
there's evidence for all three things. In fact, the evidence
for shadow people is getting pretty overwhelming these days, as
it is with UFOs.

Speaker 1 (07:42):
If you like me, every once in a while, you'll
be sitting around and catch something out of corner of
your eyes.

Speaker 4 (07:47):
So exactly exactly, we've all done it. We've all seen it.
It's either a standard anomaly or phenomena that's the human
brain and eyes have or it's something real. I think
sometimes it's just to branch moving or a cat running
by or something like that, but it can't be all
the time, and the evidence seems to point to the

(08:08):
fact that they love to inhabit abandoned buildings about three
to four years or so after they've been abandoned. If
they stay abandoned, the shadow people seem to want to
move into any building with renewled schoolhouse, a church, a hospital,
or even a house. But they also exist in you know,
modern housing with people still living in there.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
What's your definition of a shadow person.

Speaker 5 (08:31):
That's a tough one.

Speaker 4 (08:33):
A shadow person is someone that seems to lack of substance.
They appear visually as just as shadow, a blank dark
place that's sort of humanoid in shape. Sat of people
do come in different shapes and sizes. The hat Man
is one of the most famous, and rumor has it
that Freddy Krueger was partly created as a result of

(08:54):
the hat Man shadow person, although the I think it's
the producer of the director said he also it from
other sources as well. But there's the slender Man that
was created by Creepy pasta which was just a story
that got out of hand on the Internet. But I mean,
there's several different types. They seem to be humanoid. They

(09:15):
are dark quite often, they don't seem to cause any problem,
but they seem to invoke intense dread and fearing people.
People see them in bed, they'll wake up and see them.
They'll be going to sleep and see them. They'll see
them when they're sitting in their living room. Their dogs
will see them. Cats will see them apparently at the
same time. So they do seem to exist, but what

(09:36):
exactly they are is a really hard thing to define.
In the Middle East, they used to call them the
gin or dji n n.

Speaker 5 (09:45):
How we want to pronounce that.

Speaker 4 (09:46):
I think the da silent, and I believe the word
genie comes from that original word. But they thought that
they were natural to the earth and that they were
like animals, that they didn't build houses or things like that,
but they were sort of humanoid in shape and live
in all of our abandoned ones. I don't think there's
strictly shadows, because they do seem to be able to

(10:07):
interact at times with physical reality in our world, and
there seems to be some good evidence for that as well.
Are they dangerous? I'm not sure. My experiences have always
been unsettling with them.

Speaker 5 (10:18):
How about you.

Speaker 4 (10:19):
Do you have had any kind of negative experiences with
shadow people?

Speaker 1 (10:24):
Not negative, I don't know. Occasionally when something like that happens,
you'll get a kind of uneasy feeling, but not much
past that extent. For me.

Speaker 4 (10:33):
They seem to have it like addicts and sellers and
again abandoned buildings. I had a house in San Diego,
and I hated going down.

Speaker 5 (10:41):
Into the basement.

Speaker 4 (10:42):
It was a completely finished basement, and my laundry was
down there, but I dreaded going alone. And then I
hired a housekeeper and she didn't like going down there
at all. He wouldn't ask me if I would just
load the laundry and take it out, and then she'd
fold it and put it away. But yeah, people get
scared in basements and addicts.

Speaker 5 (11:01):
I don't know why. Dark. I guess dark and empty.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
Yeah, you mentioned the hat man. What is that phenomenon?
What does it mostly occur?

Speaker 4 (11:11):
It occurs with a lot of people. It has occurred
with people around the planet. They all describe the same character.
He's tall, he's dark, he often wears a long black coat.

Speaker 5 (11:21):
He's black shadow.

Speaker 4 (11:24):
There's no definition to his face or his body except
like if you did an outline and filled it in
with black, that is what you would have with a
shadow person. And he seems to always wear what looks
like a broad brimmed hat like Freddikrueger. It can be
some people describe as a fedora. Oh, there's different kinds
of hats, but it's always got that broad brim And

(11:45):
he has been seen by people in their bedrooms at
night in the Middle East, in Europe, America, Asia, Australia,
He's been seen everywhere. He's almost like an archetypal figure
for shadow people. Now what shadow people are is a
different question entirely.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
Why do you think so many people report feelings of
fear or dread when they catch this visulation out of
the corner of their eye or.

Speaker 4 (12:14):
Well, I've interviewed some people about that, and they think
it feeds off their fear. They think it Well, here's
a good example. There was a woman, it's a video
on YouTube. I don't know if it's still there, but
she's in her apartment, sitting in the living room, and
it's a small apartment. The living was like the end room,
and there's a corner that runs right to the front door,

(12:35):
and she can see it from her chair almost and
off the corner to the left is a little gally kitchen,
dead end, no way in, no way out other than
the from the hallway. And then there's the living room,
and I guess she's got a betterment a bathroom somewhere,
but d kept her dog kept barking at something in
the hallway. So finally she got up and went to look.
And this is all video and it was before AI

(12:58):
and she saw this shadow figure head and shoulders, lean
around the doorway of the kitchen and look at her.
The dogs started really barking like crazy and backed off,
and she screamed, and the figure ducked back into the kitchen.
So she ran down the hallway. Now there's only two
places that could have gone into the kitchen around the
front door. The front door was locked, it hadn't been opened.

(13:20):
They walked into the little galley kitchen, dead end, wall,
kitchen stuff.

Speaker 5 (13:24):
No shadow.

Speaker 4 (13:25):
They seemed to be able to pass through physical objects,
but they also seemed to be able to at times
interfere physically in our universe. So it's a hard question
as to whether they're interdimensional or some other source.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
It seems like I've seen that video and it was spooky.

Speaker 4 (13:41):
Yeah, and it's not the only one. There's tons of them.

Speaker 5 (13:44):
I don't want to bore you with them.

Speaker 4 (13:45):
But one other one that I thought was excellent was this,
filmed I believe in Mexico, but I'm not positive.

Speaker 5 (13:50):
The dirt road. There is a house for the.

Speaker 4 (13:52):
Veranda, a lot of people sitting in a row on
rockers and stuff on the veranda, talking and laughing. One
guy the far left of the is looking out down
at the road, and the camera is across the road,
filming the party, so to speak. And a car goes
racing by, and then right behind it something speeds by
at high speed, no noise, and vaguely, very vaguely looked

(14:15):
like a motorcycle with someone leaning forward on it again,
sort of a black, shadowy shape that.

Speaker 5 (14:22):
Just zipped by.

Speaker 4 (14:23):
No One on the porch seemed to notice it at
all except that one man. He jumped up and looked,
and then he ran down the steps, down the driveway
and into the dirt road and looked down the dirt
road after where that thing had disappeared. So he definitely
saw it, and we saw it on camera. And again
this was before AI and photoshopping could do much with videos.

(14:44):
And I don't think it was faked. Are some faked, Absolutely,
there's always those kind of people out there that want
to play hoaxes. But I tend to really try to
find whether I think it's a hoax or not and
get second opinions on it.

Speaker 1 (14:57):
And if you're like me, you watch a lot of
stuff on YouTube, and a lot of times you can
tell the fake. You'll end up shaking your head. It's
some of the stuff people try to pull in videos.

Speaker 4 (15:06):
Oh, some of it's very good. But for instance, they
use these AI to do the dialogue a lot, and
it always follows the same pattern. It will tell you something.
It'll say they found this new object and it's not this,
and it's not that, but it is, and then it
always that's a set formula that ay I seems to
use all the time. So if you watch a video

(15:27):
where they tell you a statement and then they say
it's not this, that or the other thing, and they
do it two or three times in a row, right,
then that's probably AI. That's one good sign.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
Are there a lot of reports of shadow people during
daylight hours.

Speaker 4 (15:41):
Yeah, they like dark places, so a lot of people
see them more at night. Even in the apartment that
woman was in, it was lit, but it was nighttime.
But yes, you can see them in a daytime and
quite often you can see them a lot in the daytime.
You can see them in old buildings.

Speaker 5 (15:58):
You can if you're old schools, hospitals. If you ever
watch the.

Speaker 4 (16:01):
Ghost hunting shows or the Urban Explorers, you'll see quite
a few shadow people, and some of it looks quite realistic,
and some of it's scarce the heck out of the
people who are doing the investigating. Usually they'll drop everything
and run like crazy.

Speaker 1 (16:15):
Why do people report shadow people as darker than darkness.

Speaker 4 (16:21):
Because it's a kind of darkness that you can't see through.
It's not just a shadow in the corner, like if
you saw or like a bed of the light shining
down on it and there's a shadow on the wall.
You can still see the wall in the color of
the wall, just a little darker looking. But shadow people
seem to have either infinite depth or no depths at all.

(16:42):
But it's a block what's behind them. They're like almost
like a black painting if you see them move along
the wall. I did see one quite clearly.

Speaker 5 (16:51):
One time.

Speaker 4 (16:52):
I was on an investigation at an old mansion in
southern Ohio who were spending the weekend there, my editor
and I was Alien Skin magazine, and we were in
the barn and there's a group of us. The barn
was split with two lofts. It had one loft at
one end, one end the other same height, nothing in between.
And we were all up at one end and they

(17:12):
were shining a light across the whole barn to light
it up, which included the other loft quite clearly, and
a shadow walked across the other wall. Now, the only
way you could get a shadow on that wall, because
this complete black except for that one bright light where
we were was for someone on our side had walked
in front of the light.

Speaker 5 (17:31):
Nobody had.

Speaker 4 (17:31):
I was standing right there, and I know for a
fact nobody had walked in from that light. And yet
this shadow moved very swiftly along the far wall.

Speaker 5 (17:39):
That was creepy.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
There were reports of shadow people seemed to be a
worldwide phenomena on.

Speaker 4 (17:46):
Oh yeah, absolutely, that's why in the Middle East they
called him by the term Gin and again where genie
supposedly came from the word genie, But they're seen everywhere
in Europe, England, Germany, all over Asia.

Speaker 5 (18:02):
They have different.

Speaker 4 (18:03):
Names for them in different areas, but it's descriptively the
same thing. Now, some people say that it's a sleep paralysis,
that when you're just about to fall asleep or just
still waking up, is when the mind creates the hallucination
of a shadow person. And because part of the brain
has no breaks on it yet, because you're still more
sleep than awake, that you can have sudden intense feares

(18:25):
with no.

Speaker 5 (18:25):
Real logical reason for it.

Speaker 4 (18:27):
Yet it doesn't explain why you see this image and
feel the fear. And secondly, it doesn't explain all the
shadow people that have been spotted, and I mean there
have been tens of thousands of them, and hundreds and
hundreds filmed of people in buildings and when they're wide
awake and they have all their gear with them outside
in the daylight, like with that one that.

Speaker 5 (18:48):
Took place in Mexico.

Speaker 4 (18:49):
It was about I would say it was getting on
towards dusk, but it was still quite bright out. So yeah,
I often wonder if the reason we can see them
in daylight is because they're close and sometimes the cloaking
under certain conditions doesn't work really well. That could be
another alternative. They could just be something or someone that
has a cloaking device. We have invented them. There's a

(19:12):
Japanese scientist who's invented a very clever one. If he
puts that cloak in front of them, you see what's
behind him. You don't see him except his head above
the cloak, and that looks very strange. So if we
can do it, and there's a more advanced civilization out there,
either in another dimension or out in space, they easily
could have something like that and they could be using it.

(19:32):
Apparently a cloaks sound too, and it may be the
same thing that UFOs are using because they appear to
be cloaked at times too.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
Sort of a light bending technology.

Speaker 4 (19:45):
Yeah, it except my problem with our cloaking is it
shows what's behind you. You seem to disappear and you
see what's behind them, and it looks pretty darn realistic.
But with shadow people, it looks like you could sink
into the deep dark. Well, if you were to approach
them and try to enter into them, they and you

(20:07):
don't really see what I mean. You know there's a
wall behind them because there are a shadow on that wall,
but you really don't see the wall where the shadow
person is. It's like they block any further reflections or
transmissions of light. So whatever they're using, if they are
using a cloaking devices, one we don't have. But then
UFOs have some pretty strange physical properties too that seem

(20:27):
to defy the laws of physics. So whoever these creatures are,
they could be the same way.

Speaker 5 (20:34):
Now.

Speaker 4 (20:34):
Shadow people might be native to the Earth, They might
be interdimensional beings. Earth might exist in several dimensions besides
the ones we know, and which case we just can't
perceive them, but they're here and or only partly see them,
or they could be moving back and forth through dimensions,
or they could only be partly in our dimension. I

(20:54):
don't think they're ghosts. They don't really behave like ghosts.
They don't seem to have the aspects the ghost at all,
so I don't think they fall into that classification. I
think they're just a weird phenomena that is real.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
Have you found similarities exist between modern reports and some
ancient folklore?

Speaker 4 (21:16):
Oh? Yeah, absolutely, again I'm gonna refer to the Middle
East and the Gin those go back that probably a
couple of millennia at least. We have reports in Europe
of creatures that we called incubus and succubus. There's one
shadow person that was a succubus and she was called
the Old Hag by people all over Europe, Germany, Britain,

(21:38):
and she would sit on their chest at night and
sort of smother people. Now that might be paralysis, but
people always reported as an ugly old woman sitting on
their chest and trying to either suck the breath out
of them or stop them from breathing. And that's a
very common one. The hat Man has appeared around the world,

(21:59):
and again there's all these negative connotations with them, fear, dread, danger,
So it seems to evoke a very dark response from us.
For some reason, it may be a natural defense, you know,
skunk squirt, a foul smelling spray. Maybe these creatures give

(22:22):
off something that creates fear in the person who they
think might attack.

Speaker 5 (22:27):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (22:28):
We just don't know enough about them. What we do
know is that they do seem to be real. They
do seem to be here and they do interact with us.
Mostly it seems to be benign, but not always.

Speaker 1 (22:42):
What is the most compelling shadow person case that you've
ever investigated would.

Speaker 4 (22:50):
Be that one that I personally investigated or that I
saw investigated.

Speaker 1 (22:54):
There's a difference that you've investigated.

Speaker 4 (22:58):
It would be that one in the barn at that
old Prospect mansion in southern Ohio that was very clear
to me and absolutely no explanation for it that makes
reasonable sense other than that it was a shadow person.
And luckily it was witnessed by about thirty of us
at the time that were up on that loft. It
was the whole weekend of ghost hunting inside and outside

(23:18):
of the mansion and the adjacent impertinances on the grounds,
so we were all over the place. But it was
in that barn that dates back before the Civil War.
Now there's a ghost history to that place and to
the barn. Supposedly someone was hung there from the rafters
and you can still see the where marks in the
beam where the rope was. There was supposed to be

(23:41):
a small girl who jumped to her death from an
upper room in the mansion.

Speaker 5 (23:44):
So is it a ghost? Don't think it was. I
think it was a true shadow person.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
Do you think shadow people are spiritual, psychological, physical, or
possibly all the above.

Speaker 4 (23:58):
I think they are all of the above. I think
sometimes it may be sleep paralysis that causes us to
have these manifestations that we think are real.

Speaker 5 (24:06):
It can be some.

Speaker 4 (24:07):
People are psychologically, I don't want to say have a problem,
but they might have a psychological abnormality that makes them
see something that isn't there. That might but all that's
a small percentage. I think there's just too much. I mean,
when you can video something and film it, and this
was before there was ai to fake those films. I
mean photos are fairly easy to fake, but at that time,

(24:27):
back in nearly two thousands and twenty ten, it wasn't
easy to fake a video. It was a painstaking effort.
And these are not professionals doing these videos. They're amateurs.
So yeah, I definitely think they're real, all right, And
I definitely think I'm not sure if they present a
real danger to us or we just feel a real

(24:48):
danger when they're around. Again, I don't think anyone's been
killed by a shadow person, but they have interacted in
houses and places, and it isn't just us animals seem
to fear them too. Animals will back away when they
see one. They do it in houses, they do it
in apartments, they do it in empty buildings. When someone
brings an animal with them, they're the first run. So

(25:11):
if you have a dog with you, you think it's going.

Speaker 5 (25:13):
To protect you, it won't. It'll run. Why is it
because they're strange?

Speaker 4 (25:17):
Is it because there's something dangerous?

Speaker 5 (25:18):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
I don't know. They'll get your attention, the ones that
I've caught you no, like I say, out of the
corner of my eye, or in a dark area in
the corners and stuff. Is it possible they're into dimensional beings?

Speaker 4 (25:33):
Oh? Yeah, to me, that's probably the most likely explanation.
But I'm not saying that they deliberately came over. I
think again, I think reality is probably more than we realize.
We have a certain visual spectrum. We can see from
deep reds to indigo, and that's our range of the

(25:55):
electromagnetic spectrum, but it goes really far in either direction.

Speaker 5 (26:00):
Side of that.

Speaker 4 (26:01):
You can go down into infrared, radar all that sort
of thing, and you can get up into ultra violet
and the higher frequencies even X rays, which can harm you.
So what if this thing exists in our reality but
in such a way that it's not really quite visible
to us except under certain circumstances, and it's sort of
I will have to say, I don't know if you

(26:23):
call it interdimensional or just sort of out of phase
with our existence as we know it.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
You think quantum physics could offer you any clues to them?

Speaker 4 (26:33):
Oh, yeah, I definitely do. I think quantum physics may
even find the answers to a lot of things. For
one thing, it predicts as a real possibility, even a probability,
multiple realities. There is a lot of evidence in physics
that there are more than our four dimensions that we
know of the three dimensions of space and the one

(26:54):
dimension of time space time, there could easily be a
fifth dimension. We believe there's an antimatter parallel universe. It's
almost exactly like ours, but running in the reverse, and
we have some solid evidence for that as well. I mean,
it used to be that this was all supposition and theory,
but now we're beginning to get evidence for some of

(27:15):
this stuff, and it's really intriguing.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
Have you found their connections between UFO and counters and
shadow entities.

Speaker 4 (27:24):
I haven't actually found a lot of evidence that the
two are the same, Like, for instance, with a mothman,
there was evidence that there was a UFO sighting just
a week or two before it started appearing, and so
it may be related to it. And the Bigfoot or
Sasquat seems to be closely related to UFOs in a
lot of cases, although with shadow people we just don't

(27:46):
know enough to know they are. But we don't seem
to have any correlation between current UFO sidings and then
a shadow person appearing. But maybe that correlation simply hasn't
been made. I was a Moufon investigator field investigator for
three year, and believe me, it's a very strange world there.

Speaker 5 (28:03):
It's quite odd.

Speaker 1 (28:06):
A lot of these subjects are out in left field.
But when you investigate this kind of thing, it's a
necessity to have an open mind about all of it.
I guess I.

Speaker 5 (28:18):
Think, yeah, you have to have an open mind.

Speaker 4 (28:21):
If you don't, then there's no point investigating. If you're
going with a closed mind and you're preests supposing that
something has to be a certain way, you're not going
to see the evidence for something of it's a different way,
or you're going to dismiss it. It happens all the time.
A good case in point as an example, in the fifties,
I'm sorry. In the twenties, there was a scientist, a

(28:43):
geologist by the name of Alfred Wegener. He was the
one who came up with the idea of continental drift,
and he pointed out that if you look at a
map of the Earth, it clearly looks like a jigsaw
puzzle and puzzle and you can put the pieces together.
South America and Africa go together quite nicely, American ministers
with Europe quite nicely. But he was laughed at and

(29:06):
dismissed by all of the geologists at the time. I mean,
his career was ruined. He died in ignominy because of that.
And yet by nineteen fifty five or so, continental drift
became the accepted theory because we found more geological evidence
to back it. This man knew it thirty to forty
years before that, but nobody would listen because they were
preests disposed to not believing it. They simply couldn't believe

(29:31):
that land masses could float around on the Earth. But
that's a good example when you approach any investigation, you
don't have an open mind, but you have to have
a skeptical and critical thinking mind too. You can't just
accept it at face value. I don't discount people who
believe in ghosts. I think there's some evidence they do
exist actually, or mediums they say they can talk to

(29:55):
the dead. But my only problem with that is it's
not repeatable evidence. You listen to one medium and they
say the afterlife is like this. You listen to another
medium they say the afterlife is like that.

Speaker 5 (30:07):
I have read.

Speaker 4 (30:08):
Books on channeling, I have investigated a lot of circumstances
with regard to ghosts, and again, I think there is
evidence that something strange is going on. But I don't
think that you can rely on mediums to.

Speaker 5 (30:22):
Give you the answer.

Speaker 4 (30:23):
They might be telling the absolute truth or they might
be telling you the truth as they perceive it, and
there's a big difference between those two.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
What dof some witnesses claim that shadow people have intelligent behavior.

Speaker 4 (30:39):
Well, that's a moot point. And for one more time,
I'm going to refer to the Middle East. In the
history of Gin. They say that they are more like animals.
They look kind of like us, in shape like sort
of humanoid. That's all you can tell. Sometimes they have
red eyes, but that's about it. You never see any
other details. So I'll just an outline filled in with black.

(31:00):
And I think that they kind of believe that they're
about as intelligent as an animal, and that's why they
don't build. So that's why they take up borders in
dark places like old buildings and abandoned buildings. So that's
been their belief for centuries, a couple of millennia actually.

Speaker 5 (31:19):
Whereas here in the West we.

Speaker 4 (31:21):
Kind of think that they might be intelligent. I mean,
after all, if the hat man is actually a real
shadow person anyways at Fedora, he must be intelligent enough
to have a hat and put it on his head.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
Right, Yeah, definitely. In your research, have you found any
geographical hotspots that seem to have more sightings of shadow
people than others other locations.

Speaker 4 (31:46):
Geographically, like in national parks or something. No, but they
do seem to and I'm going to use this word carefully,
they do seem to infest urban areas, especially run down areas, warehouse,
those old buildings again, that sort of thing. Although again
you can see them in regular houses and you can
see them in apartments and places like that, or even outdoors.

(32:09):
So although they have the run around, they seem to
prefer old abandoned areas and not just the one building,
but all the areas around it. It's pretty rough as
the way I would describe it, pretty abandoned, like old
industrial buildings, that sort of thing.

Speaker 1 (32:23):
You feel they could possibly be an echo in foundations
of older buildings or something like that that might be
causing it.

Speaker 4 (32:32):
No, I think the repeater ghost could be an echo
that somehow has been impressed on the geographical place of origin.

Speaker 5 (32:40):
You know.

Speaker 4 (32:41):
That's the kind of ghosts that you see every night
doing exactly the same thing. Walks out of one room,
acrosses the corridor and walks through the wall, and you
see that every time you see it does repeats the
same thing.

Speaker 5 (32:51):
The repeater.

Speaker 4 (32:54):
Dark shadows shadow people don't seem to be that way.
They seem to be independent. They seem to be able
to have I'm going to say, self will where they
can choose what they want to do. They do seem
to run from us, high from us, and dart away
from us, but they also seem to kind of defend
their areas as well. I think they deliberately try to
scare people at times to make them run away.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
Are head men encounters different from normal shadow people reports.

Speaker 4 (33:24):
I've never heard of a hat man encounter whether people
weren't definitely afraid of what they saw. Now, with other
shadow people, quite often they're afraid, and sometimes they're not. Again,
you glimt something out of the corner of your eyes,
our shadows flit by. It doesn't scare you.

Speaker 5 (33:37):
It might.

Speaker 4 (33:40):
What would be the word alarm you a little, surprise
you a little, but not necessarily cause fear. That's the
hat man always seems to be associated with real fear.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
Have any witnesses ever reported communication.

Speaker 4 (33:55):
Not direct communication, but they have reported interaction. There is
a video on You Again is quite old, about fifteen
eighteen years old, and it shows the people have a
camera in their baby's nursery. It's in a crib. They're
downstairs and they can hear the baby and see the baby.
And they didn't see that at the time it happened,

(34:17):
but when they were replaying the video, because they heard
the baby start to cry, so they replayed the video
and this shadow hand the room shut, the door shuts
the babies in this crib it's dark except for one
night light. This shadow hand reaches up over the crib
and starts to reach through the crib towards the child.
The child starts to cry, and then the hand jurts

(34:37):
back and disappears. Well. They immediately after seeing it, ran
upstairs and looked in the room. There was under the bed,
in the closet, everywhere they couldn't find it. Have you
ever wondered why people, especially children, are always afraid of
the closets in their bedrooms at night and what's under
their bed?

Speaker 1 (34:52):
I've wondered. I'm not really sure.

Speaker 4 (34:55):
This is a common common thing for children to have,
and even a lot of adults believe it or not.
And is it just the dark that's called it or
is it something more? Have you ever, as a child
been afraid at night of something being under your bed?

Speaker 1 (35:11):
Almost definitely?

Speaker 4 (35:13):
Could you give me an example of what it felt
like or what you went through?

Speaker 1 (35:17):
I don't know. It's difficult to fall asleep when you
feel there's something, you know, under there that if you
got up they had to go to the restroom or something,
would it grab you as you get up? You know,
you get afraid.

Speaker 4 (35:28):
I was always afraid was grabbing around the ankles.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
You know, yeah, so you're afraid to get up and
take care of mother nature.

Speaker 5 (35:37):
But you know, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4 (35:39):
But why why are we afraid? And why is it
always like under our bed or in our closet? Well,
there's been countless movies that play on that.

Speaker 5 (35:49):
Sort of aspect of it.

Speaker 4 (35:51):
The movie Polterguys with that closet and what was going
on in the closet and that doll in that chair,
and then it was under the bed and then it
grabbed if you remember, in the original Poldar Guys.

Speaker 5 (36:02):
But and then there was a movie.

Speaker 4 (36:04):
Little Monsters I think it was. It was quite cute
and funny, but it was all about monsters being under
the children's beds and with the secret world down below
where all the monsters lived, and they came out at
night and they went under the beds of children's houses.
Why is this such a recurring and powerful theme all
the time. There has to be some substance behind it.

(36:25):
Either that or it's just a real mass hallucination that
children have. And I don't believe that's true.

Speaker 5 (36:32):
I'm sorry, go ahead, no, you go ahead, please.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
What are some of the most frightening reports you've ever
read about or studied.

Speaker 4 (36:41):
Well, that one with a baby and the crib scared
the heck out of me.

Speaker 5 (36:45):
That looked bad.

Speaker 4 (36:48):
There are others like that. I was just thinking when
I was a child, I felt something under my bed.
My bed actually sort of moved, like something was bumping
it under the bed. We didn't have any pets. I
was the only one in the room. I was about
eleven years old, I think.

Speaker 5 (37:05):
Ten or eleven, and.

Speaker 4 (37:09):
I could feel a presence and give this sounds more
like a medium than a scientist, but I could feel
a presence and it scared me so that it actually
trembled to the point where the bed was shaking, and
I couldn't tell if I was shaking the bed or
something else was shaking the bed. So that was pretty
frightening for me. I think that was probably the most
frightening experience I've had.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
Is there any evidence that these encounters follow people say
they moved to a different location or possibly while they're
staying in a hotel room during a trip, and they
catch these glimpses.

Speaker 4 (37:43):
I haven't seen much on that I've had. I've read
some reports where people seem to have it follow them,
they move house, and it seems to come with them.
There are cases where people seem to burn sage in
their house that seemed to get rid of them.

Speaker 5 (37:57):
I've smelled burning sage.

Speaker 4 (37:58):
You would get rid of me to Yeah, but yeah,
it's it does the ghost thing. Polder guy's thing seems
to be much more that way than shadow people. Shadow
people seem to be random almost where they infest. But

(38:18):
if they infest a place, you're going to see them
more than once, and quite often people move to get
away from them, and usually usually moving seems to do
the job.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
We're about halfway halfway through the interview. You mind if
I go ahead and run my break, and then when
we come back we can continue on. If we go
past an hour or so, it's good. I'll leave that
up to you. But let's go ahead and get this
break out of the way and then we can continue outward.

Speaker 6 (38:45):
Oh yeah, that's fine.

Speaker 4 (39:06):
Too many buble pots of bonn the river, too many
long sides of rivid actasy.

Speaker 7 (39:15):
You lay your beds and then you pay the price.
But beens with you communication?

Speaker 4 (39:26):
Here's the problem to you answer?

Speaker 3 (39:29):
You gotta known.

Speaker 6 (39:32):
Alone.

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The Bible describes men's thoughts in the last days as
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In Reverse Speech, The Fulfillment of Prophecy, David John Oates
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(39:57):
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Drawing from the Bible, the Gospels, revelation, and ancient spiritual traditions,
this book examines recurring themes long overlooked, the voice of
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(40:18):
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(40:43):
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Speaker 9 (42:00):
Later, much later, we heard something we didn't breathe for listening,
Then footsteps on the back porch creeping. Then more confident
after all nobody was home, a hand closed on the
knob on the screen door to the kitchen and found
it latched. We heard a little sawing sound as a
file began to slice through the screen wire. Grandma reached
down for something in her sewing basket. Through the darkness,

(42:21):
I managed to notice Grandma's rocker was rocking and she
wasn't in it. She was standing over me.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
Keep just behind me, she whispered.

Speaker 9 (42:28):
I followed her across the room into the kitchen. Now
we were by the door, and I heard the scuffle
of heavy feet in there on the crinkly linoleum. Grandma
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(42:49):
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Speaker 4 (43:17):
Sun down all around.

Speaker 3 (43:21):
Walking through the songers and.

Speaker 5 (43:25):
Hueves, Rush, Baby, don't look back.

Speaker 4 (43:29):
I would rub away again, O, babywhere where you go.

Speaker 9 (43:38):
About again?

Speaker 5 (43:40):
I begin?

Speaker 3 (43:42):
Babywhere from the Ozark Hills up northeast Arkansas. Here is
Carl Richardson on midnight frequency radio.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
We're back with Rob Shelsky. Rob, have you found any
connections between shadow people and possible time travelers?

Speaker 4 (44:00):
Well, if there is a connection, it's tenuous. Could shadow
people be from the future, Yes, But if they are,
then why are they looking around in the shadows of
old abandoned buildings and places like that. Why are they
behaving the way they're behaving. I think they're probably more
inter dimensional. That's not to say that I don't think
that time travel might exist. Remember now, if you invent

(44:22):
a time machine, it doesn't matter when you invent it,
all time would be open to you. So even if
we don't invent a time machine for another, say, two
million years, if someone finally does, they can come back
to our time. And one scientist said that if they're so,
if there are time travelers, why don't we see time

(44:44):
travel of course people walking around in signing silver suits
with mirrored glasses. But the truth of the matter is
another scientist said, if they are time travelers, they would
have to tread very carefully because the slightest mistake could
change the future and wipe them out as an individual
or their whole people. So there's two sides to that kind.
But I think there's some real evidence, at least some

(45:06):
tantalizing evidence, that time travel actually exists.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
Yeah, I would believe that they don't want to cause
a butterfly effect or a grandfather paradox. That's so they
kind of have to lay low.

Speaker 3 (45:21):
Well.

Speaker 4 (45:21):
Quantum physics thinks that you probably would not be able
to create a paradox. They think that if quantum physics,
if you could travel back in time, then you change
anything like even breathing in the air that when no
one was breathing it before, you would instantly create an
alternate reality, a branch in the reality, and in that branch,
whatever change you made will continue on into the future.

(45:44):
So if you go back in time and kill your
grandfather and go back to the future, you will be
in our present and your grandfather will never be killed. However,
there will be a branching universe off to the point
where you killed your grandfather, where he never existed to
have children, and you don't exist in that parallel timeline.
You just raised yourself from it, but you can't erase yourself,

(46:08):
so you would end up going back to the future
of your.

Speaker 5 (46:10):
Own timeline, not the parallel one.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
What scientific theories do you feel support time travel.

Speaker 4 (46:19):
Time travel is not forbidden by the laws of physics.
It's called physics dirty little secret. Our equations for physics
work whether you run them forward or whether you run
them backward. Time also doesn't seem to behave normally. On
the quantum level. You can change something in the future
of a particle and it will alter the past state

(46:41):
of the particle to match that. It's almost like someone
sneezes in the future and someone in the president says,
God bless you because of it. It's like it just
travels back. I think that when it comes to time travel,
we have to be very careful. And also I have
my own theory about time travel. I do think there

(47:02):
have been time travelers, and I think they have interfered
in our history. I think we might be being manipulated.
The Mandela effect could be a real side effect of
this manipulation, or it could be that they're trying to
change outcomes and lead to a certain end result. I'll
give you a good example of that. Have you ever

(47:23):
heard of kamakazies?

Speaker 1 (47:25):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (47:26):
Ye.

Speaker 5 (47:27):
During World War Two, there were.

Speaker 4 (47:29):
Japanese pilots who would not come back from their missions
against the American forces are ships. They would dive into
the ship and try to damage the ship so much
that it was sink. They weren't nearly effective as people
now think they were. They did they cause damage, yes,
but not nearly as much as history now kind of
tries to portray it as been a terrible thing for

(47:49):
our ships. It wasn't really that bad because if you
didn't shoot down an enemy plane, it probably would strafe
you or a torpedo, so either way your ship was
going to get it. But the kamikaze, the word means
divine wind. This comes from when Japan was invaded. I
would have to say what I think it was around

(48:11):
twelve hundreds of them. It's been so long since I
studied it. The dates are wrong, but let's say about
eight hundred years ago. It was an emperor of China.
I think it was a Mongolian emperor of China at
the time, and because I believe it's called a khan,
and he had raised a massive army, I mean massive

(48:31):
and hundreds of ships, and he tried to invade Japan. Well,
a huge storm came up and it destroyed his fleet
and killed thousands of his men. They never managed to
invade Japan. A few managed to make it to shore,
but they were easily wiped out. Well, this didn't stop
the emperor. About ten or twelve years later he tried again,

(48:53):
and guess what, there was another great storm just like
the first. Now you talk about bad luck, right, that's
pretty bad luck. Now was that just coincidence or was
it on purpose? And so the Japanese was so impressed
with having been saved by this storm that they referred
to the divine wind the Kamakazi, And that's where that

(49:15):
term comes from. Now it doesn't stop there. In England,
the Spanish Armada tried to invade England. They had outnumbered
the English tremendously, and history tends to say, well the
English did brave little English ships fought the giant armada
and won. Well, yeah they did, but they didn't do

(49:35):
the work. A great storm arose and it destroyed the
Armana scattered it, ships sunk, ships were lost. It completely
destroyed their effort. The English were able to do a
map up procedure and that was the end of the
Spanish power over England from then on.

Speaker 5 (49:50):
Really completely changed history.

Speaker 4 (49:52):
By the way, so did the Chinese attempted invasions that
failed changed history as well. Japan was never invaded, not
by the Chinese, and England was never invaded by the Spanish.
Queen Elizabeth I was so impressed with it that she
had a medallion struck a gold coin that referred to
the the not the divine Wind, but the I can't

(50:15):
remember the exact wording, but it was something like divine
blessed Wind or something like that, and it was so
England has its own version of the Kamakaze, and it
doesn't stop there. In eighteen twelve, the English invaded landed
in the South, marched on Washington, d C. Burned several
buildings and strangely enough, what they called at the time

(50:39):
a hurricane. I don't think it was. It was too
short lived. But this massive storm hit and a tornado
came right down the main boulevard of Washington, DC and
it completely It hits the nice regimented formations that the
British loves to do at the time, probably still do,
and it just caused tremendous havoc. They were four street

(51:00):
tree and they that's as far as they got. They
managed to burn the White House and a few other buildings,
but the storm defeated them. And this was so impressed
that we struck a medallion and referred to it as
the And I think of the word that they used
kind of refer to God, like prescient or something like that.

(51:22):
Can with the exact word now. But they had it too,
and so here we have another. It was but they
said basically that was God, that God had done it
for them, and providence. That's it. It was divine providence
that saved us. It was the storm was divine providence.
So we did it, the English did it, the Japanese

(51:44):
had it. So this has repeated and always it repeats
at critical moments in our history where everything we would
have ended up being a British colleague. And if we'd
lost the War of eighteen twelve, Japan would have been Chinese.
If they had lost to Ja I'm sorry, Japan would
have been had lost the war, England would have been
Spanish and it would no longer been part of It

(52:04):
would have been forced to be Catholic again, and that
would have been it from then on, as the Spanish
and managed to conquer and invade England. So these are
critical turning points in history every time this happened, and
not just minor points. It's not like I just smashed
a few houses down. It changed history. These storms did,
and this has happened repeatedly. So is that all just coincidence?

(52:28):
I don't think it is.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
Yeah, you mentioned the common cases. This one movie that
I loved that came out that related to time travel,
and that was the Final Countdown.

Speaker 5 (52:38):
Oh great movie, love, Yeah it was. You know, did
you catch the paradox in that?

Speaker 1 (52:46):
Yes?

Speaker 5 (52:47):
Okay, what was the paradox.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
When the gentleman is stranded back in the past and
he's the one that was paying for the reporter on
the ship? What was that the nimitz?

Speaker 5 (52:59):
Yeah? What's they.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
So beyond the ship to record the events during that
travel time travel incident.

Speaker 4 (53:08):
Actually, the paradox that I found most profound was the
fact that he was the executive officer on the ship
went back in time. He didn't come back to the
present with the others. He wanted to stay with his
lady friend. And since he knew aircraft carriers so well,
he came up to design for aircraft carriers, the modern

(53:31):
aircraft carrier. But he got it from when he was
on board an aircraft carrier in art times, but he
designed the aircraft carrier, so that's the paradox.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
So he looped it back around.

Speaker 5 (53:43):
He looked it.

Speaker 4 (53:43):
If he hadn't gone in the past, there would have
been no aircraft carriers, or at least not like the
ones we have now. And he did go back in
the past, and I mean, I just thought that was
very clever the way they do that. And Alisha wondering.
Another good movie was Somewhere in Time with Christopher Reeves
with jame Z Yeah, And do you know what the
paradox there was?

Speaker 1 (54:04):
I'm not sure on that one.

Speaker 4 (54:06):
It's a real simple one. He's an old lady at
the beginning of the movie and she interrupts his party
where they're having a cast party after the end of
their so Olive love.

Speaker 1 (54:16):
Oh yeah, yeah, and she brings the watch back to him.

Speaker 4 (54:19):
She brings him the watch, and then he goes back
in time with the watch and shows it to her
and leaves it there, and then she brings it to him, Well,
when was the watch made? Who made it? It's in
a complete loop. He has, she has it, gives it
to him. He goes back and pass and gives it
to her. That seems to be the whole life cycle
of that watch, but with no beginning.

Speaker 1 (54:39):
Art Bell was a fan of that movie, even to
the point to where he and Ramona, his wife at
the time, went and stayed at that hotel where it
was filmed.

Speaker 5 (54:51):
I did too, did you, Yes? I did.

Speaker 4 (54:55):
I lived in California at the time, and I took
a trip in my RV and I went to Macan
Island and I went to that hotel and I spent
a night there, and it looked exactly like it did
in the movie. And what's more, there were no cars.
They don't allow cars on the island. You have to
either use horse.

Speaker 5 (55:10):
And carriage, or they allow little golf carts, but not.

Speaker 4 (55:13):
At the hotel.

Speaker 5 (55:13):
You didn't sit any golf carts. They would drive you
up there, but they wouldn't stay.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
I'll send you some pictures they took on that trip.
What road do you think consciousness may play in temporal travel?

Speaker 4 (55:27):
It might have nothing to do with it, or it
might have everything to do with it. In quantum physics,
it stated that when things are observed, they behave differently
when they're not observed. When we observe a particle is
a particle when we don't observe it.

Speaker 5 (55:41):
It's a.

Speaker 4 (55:43):
It's in a superimposed state, it's in all states at once.
It's a probability. All things are just probabilities until you
focus on them, and then they become solid. For what
we think of as solid, you have to remember, though,
that we are ghosts. Literally, an atom is ninety nine
point nine nine nine nine nine. I think there's two

(56:06):
more nines there, vacuum. You're made up of atoms. That
means that you are ninety nine point nine nine nine
nine nine vacuum. The percentage of you that could be
considered solid matter is so small it's negligible. But the
only reason you can't pass to another object is because

(56:28):
of the nuclear repulsion it the electrons repel and you
and and that sort of thing, So you cannot quitture.
Although according to quantum mechanics, if you tried enough times
for a long time, maybe maybe a million or a
trillion years, your hand would pass through it. That would
be what's it is allowed for in physics if that

(56:49):
could happen. So reality as we know it is on
very shaky.

Speaker 5 (56:54):
Ground right now.

Speaker 4 (56:55):
We've even proven that nothing is real locally and that
one is a real showstopper. Nothing is real locally. That
is a statement by physics, and everything is superimposed. And
the reason we might suddenly appear in another place just
spontaneously is because it's allowed for the particles can actually

(57:20):
leap through a wall spontaneously at times, and given enough time,
theoretically a whole human being could. So we think that
on a very small level things behave one way, and
on the big level, macro level, things are solid. It
turns out it's not true. We developed a quantum drum.

(57:40):
It's a small device that has a resonating little drum
on the top of it. Now this is big enough
for human being being to see. It's quite small, but
the human eye can see it, and they have proven
that it can exist in two states at once. It's
superimposed when we're looking at it. Now, something that we
can see with our own eyes out with a microscope

(58:00):
can do that, then maybe we can two. And that
might account for why people suddenly disappear and reappear somewhere else,
or it just never come back. But if that's true,
and physics allows for time travel in the sense that
it has no laws against it, the only even Einstein's theory,

(58:21):
special theory, and theory of relativity. The general theory allow
for time travel, but there's a lot of other laws
in physics that say, well, yeah, you can't really do
it because we take almost infinite energy blah blah blah
and all that kind of thing. But so the jury
is still out, but there is a lot of intriguing
evidence that time travel might be real. In fact, an

(58:41):
article just came out that it might be easier to
send messages back in time rather than into the future.
And there's another theory that electrons particles don't exist in
any one time at all, being suit in a super
imposed state, being all possibilities at once, they are also
all probabilities. And that we see electrons as electrons is

(59:02):
because they're moving forward in time with us. But if
we see when moving backward in time, we call it
a positron, which would be electron is a negative charge,
but a positron is the antimatter opposite of that, which
makes it a positive charged electron. And so there's a
current theory that positrons are electrons moving backward in time,

(59:24):
and there's another theory that regular electrons are moving forward
in time. I'll even go one further there me, a
very famous and noted physicist who help work on the
atomic bomb, thinks there's only one electron. It exists everywhere,
in all times at once. So when you have a
flow of electrons through a wire, if you want to

(59:44):
call it a flow, it's not really a flow at all.
Then what you're really seeing is the same electron occupying
different points in space time at the same time.

Speaker 1 (59:55):
Are you familiar with the John Teter story?

Speaker 5 (59:58):
Yes, I am, And it's a hoax.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
It's a hoax.

Speaker 5 (01:00:01):
Oh, absolutely, it's a hoax. It's been it's been pretty
much broken to be a hoast.

Speaker 4 (01:00:06):
This part of the names were borrowed from I believe
it was the brother of John Teeter. They lived in Florida.
One was I can't remember their backgrounds, but one had
kind of a background in the history or something, and
the other one I'm really stretching here to try to
remember because it's been a long time since I discovered
that one and went through it. But the other one

(01:00:27):
I think was in real estate or something. But after
all this stuff on the internet, they came out with
one or two or maybe even three books on it,
and they lived they were real, and they were living
in Florida. And also all the predictions that they made,
virtually all of them, none of them came true. There

(01:00:48):
was no civil war in the early two thousands, there
was no nuclear war in the early two thousands. Everything
they said, none of it came to happen. Now, they
tried to get around that by saying, well, the mirror
act of telling us this stuff was happening would change
the outcome, which is a nice convenient way out to
ask me. But yeah, it was a hoax.

Speaker 5 (01:01:06):
It's not real.

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
Have there been any credible witnesses who claimed to met
people from the future.

Speaker 5 (01:01:13):
Well, actually there have been.

Speaker 4 (01:01:17):
It's more about people claiming to have met people from
the past or from parallel universes. There was the one
case of a man who flew to Japan, arrived there,
he went through customs and an immigration and he showed
him the passport and this in this pastport can't be
real because the city was from a country. And again

(01:01:40):
it's been a long time since I studied those things,
about fifteen years, but the country would be our present
day Andorra, a small tiny country in the Pyrenees Mountains.
I think it was between France and Spain, and again
it's been a lot of times, so don't pin me
down too much on this one. But he did to
say it was from that country. He had another name

(01:02:02):
for it, and his passport showed it and it was stamped.
And they put him in a hotel room because they
couldn't don't know what else to do with them. They
basically had guards outside because they had to investigate further.
They couldn't figure out what was going on, and the
next morning when they went to get him, he had
vanished and everything he had vanished, and they never did
find out where he was, or who he was, or

(01:02:23):
what it was all about. There have been cases in
England where people walked down a street in Liverpool, and
this one street seems to have the ability to send
people back in time. The one woman went out to lunch,
she noticed it looked kind of gloomy, although the sun
was clearly visible. She had lunch in the park and

(01:02:45):
a man came and sat next to her, dressed in
old style clothes, and he didn't think much of it.
She thought me, he was just an old guy that
was wearing out of dated clothes. He got up and
walked the streets to notice that a lot fewer people
and all the cars looked old, and people were dressed
and like fifties clothing, And this was like took place
in the seventies, I believe, and I think it was

(01:03:05):
Bold Street in Liverpool. And that's not the only case
of that. There was an old one where a man
was walking nearby on an adjacent street he saw a
church that had been bombed out during World War two
and left it as a ruin, and when he walked
by it it was fixed and lit up. He just
assumed that they had repaired it. The next day he
walked by it again and it was a ruin. So

(01:03:26):
there's a lot of these kinds of stories. Is an
endless supply of them, and they're pretty well documented. These
people had nothing to gain by saying any of this,
and Liverpool, that area of Bold Street, it seems to
be a weak spot in time now in our case
is where people have claimed to see bangs from the future.

(01:03:47):
And again we run into that Internet problem, the people
from the future saying this and saying that, and it
doesn't seem to come to pass ever, the way they
say it's going to. One man actually shows some photos
of what looked like a city from the future, but
it was kind of fuzzy looking and you really couldn't
tell if.

Speaker 5 (01:04:04):
It was real or if he had faked it. So yeah,
I'm not too sure about that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
Yeah, I think I've even seeing the one that the
gentleman wearing sunglasses and a college shirt or something that
was supposed to Oh yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:04:19):
That's the one with the bridge in Canada.

Speaker 4 (01:04:20):
Yeah, it was the opening of a bridge and the
guy is standing in the crowd, and I have to admit,
he does it quite different. He's wearing a sweatshirt with
print on it. This is I believe in nineteen forty
seven or nineteen forty It was very late nineteen forties.
We didn't have shirts with prints on him, not T
shirts or anything. Back in the nineteen forties. We didn't
even have those. Until late into the sixties. People didn't

(01:04:44):
wear T shirts and advertised brands and names back then.
They thought, why would you pay for sure just to
advertise the company that made it, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
I thought that was the one that was on the
WI files. Aj I think tried to debunk that one,
and I think the other one you were just speaking
of the guy with the passport was also spoken about
on the WI files.

Speaker 4 (01:05:07):
Well, I have two conflicting backgrounds on that. I did
a lot of research on it and other people have,
and I could not find a single newspaper article. I
could find nothing at all that talks about this having happened,
But neither did I find anything that could.

Speaker 5 (01:05:26):
Refute it either.

Speaker 4 (01:05:28):
So is this just an urban myth from the fifties
or is it something more? A lot of people claim
it really happened. I would like to see more convincing
evidence of it now. Some of the cases, like the
ones in Bold Street and stuff, I find more convincing
than the John Teeter, which I've completely ruled out as

(01:05:48):
a hoax. But that one photo you were talking about,
the man is wearing sunglasses, he is wearing that sweatshirt,
and he is has a camera that doesn't look like
other cameras of the period. But there are people who say, yes,
they did have one camera that was like that. He
probably had it. The sunglasses is quite different. People don't

(01:06:10):
tend to wear sunglasses in Canada in the winter time.

Speaker 5 (01:06:16):
No, And he was the only one in the crowd.

Speaker 4 (01:06:18):
And also, if you look closely, almost all the men
in that picture, almost all of them had hats on.

Speaker 5 (01:06:23):
He didn't, So was.

Speaker 4 (01:06:25):
He from our time and going there as like a tourist?
I honestly don't know. But there was another picture that
I found more convincing is of a young guy those
longest blonde hair, and he's sitting with a bunch of
I think in some construction workers, and I think it
dates back to the eighteen eighteen hundreds anyway, late eighteen hundreds,

(01:06:46):
And he's in the picture and he's wearing shorts, and
everyone else is wearing these long, baggy dungarees or whatever
it is they call them in those days, and the
suspenders and the shorts, and he's the only one in shorts,
and he's the only one with that long, longish hair,
and he definitely looks like a college student from our time,
and everyone else looks like the period. So you know,

(01:07:09):
was that just a real oddity or was that an
actual photo of time traveler?

Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
Are there any out of place artifacts that suggest visitors
from another time?

Speaker 5 (01:07:20):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (01:07:20):
Yeah, there are literally thousands of them.

Speaker 5 (01:07:23):
They're called oop art by archaeologists.

Speaker 4 (01:07:28):
Is I think it's because like oops, you know, they
have found this thing with But we have found all
sorts of things that we cannot account for. A good
case in point, human footprints right next to those of
a dinosaur in Texas. They're still there.

Speaker 5 (01:07:41):
You can go see them.

Speaker 4 (01:07:43):
You're along an old creek bed or riverbed there in Texas.
Walls yeah, yeah, there are walls that we can't account
for here in the United States that.

Speaker 5 (01:07:52):
Shouldn't be here. They're built just like the ones in
other places, but they're extremely old. We have so old
we don't even know who builds them.

Speaker 4 (01:08:00):
Another oddity is it was a race of people, well,
the moon eyed people here on the East Coast, and
they the American Indian and a Native Americans Cherokee in particular,
used to fight them and fight them a lot.

Speaker 5 (01:08:18):
They had large eyes, they were.

Speaker 4 (01:08:20):
Kind of smallish, and they apparently lived in the caves
and they didn't like bright sunlight. That's why they were
called moon eyed people. But they've disappeared. But we have
these odd ruins that we can't account Excuse me, I'm
getting a frog in my throat that we can't account for,
and so are they. But we have all sorts of

(01:08:41):
what they call oop art. We have found a machined
aluminum cube that dates back millions of years that was
found in a layer of strata in the ground.

Speaker 5 (01:08:52):
We have found.

Speaker 4 (01:08:53):
Objects in solid lumps of coal people. There was one
case where someone had large lump of coal. They were
breaking it up and a bell came out of a
hand bell with a strange figurine that looked like some
strange god and some inscriptions on it.

Speaker 5 (01:09:09):
You can see it.

Speaker 4 (01:09:10):
I believe it's in the Smithsonian right now, so they
really found it. They have found other items locked in
coal ladles, spoons. There's the case of a fossilized hammer.
Looks just like a rigular hammer, but it's completely fossilized.
And then some scientists said, well maybe that was a
place where it could fossilize quickly. Well, it could have
been in a place that fossilized quickly, but fossilization, even

(01:09:33):
quick fossilization, takes far far longer than just a few
hundred years. Takes literally least at least a million years
or so. It's a long, slow process. And we have
found human remains where we shouldn't. One of the most
fascinating things to me is when they opened a tomb
in China and it dates back over four hundred years

(01:09:57):
and in the ground, and these photos of it, and
I actually have it in my book, one of my
books on time travel. They found a finger watch. This
was a little watch that you wore as a ring
on your finger, like a little wristwatch, but you wear
it on your finger. We have them now, but they
didn't have them four hundred years ago, and certainly not
in four hundred.

Speaker 5 (01:10:15):
Year old China.

Speaker 4 (01:10:16):
And this thing was old. They had to really clean
it up. It was buried in the ground in the tomb,
a sealed tomb.

Speaker 1 (01:10:23):
Ah, that's the one that had Swiss printed on the
back of it.

Speaker 5 (01:10:26):
Yes, well, yeah, Swiss, Yeah, that's the one. Yeah. And
so how do we account for that?

Speaker 4 (01:10:31):
How did they get in that tomb? And when did
he get in that tom because it was really old
and buried, so it had to have been quite some
time ago. But the Swiss weren't making finger wristwatches four
hundred years ago. Nobody was making four hundred years ago.
Fox were the size of Big Bend in London. You know,
these great big things.

Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
You have had, yeahs with clock sent them and stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:10:57):
So these are all called up art and we cannot
account for them. We just and I mean these are
just some examples. I don't want to bord everyone endless
stories about them, but they are everywhere all the time.
And what archaeologists tend to do is they tend to
ignore them. They either try to say they're a hoax,
although they don't explain how it could be a hoax

(01:11:17):
because they themselves actually dug the thing up sometimes, or
they say that the case of mistake and identity and
that's not what it seems to be, and yet it is.
And some of them are in the Smithsonium and in
other places around the world, in other museums, including the
British Museum in London. I've seen it or something, not
not the little wristwatch but a figure watch, but some

(01:11:40):
other things they've found. So, yeah, we can't account for this,
So how do they get they actually have found tools
that date back well. I don't know if you ever
heard of the Creation stone that they found in near
the Ural Mountains.

Speaker 1 (01:11:53):
I don't think I'm familiar with that one.

Speaker 4 (01:11:55):
Yeah, they found the Creation stone and its huge. It's
about the size of a desk and was very heavy.
It was a slab of rock that seemed to be
made of three layers that had somehow been pressed together,
the top layer being clear, the middle layer being what.
And it was a map, but it was a map
of the area as if it was taken from about

(01:12:18):
thirty thousand feet in the air, like a topographical map
of the region. And it showed river channels and dams
and other things that don't exist there and never have
as far as we know. And they think it dates
back at least twenty five million years with some terrorforming
parts of Russia twenty five million years ago. And if so,

(01:12:39):
who was it? And by the way, it's just one piece,
but they think it is a much much larger stone.
This one was found in the backyard of a peasant's
house in the Caucasus or euroregional Russia. Again I'm not
sure about which mountain. And they found this, and they
called it the map of the Creator or the Creation Stone.

(01:13:00):
I mean, I'd say it's about the size of a
queen's size bed and very heavy. And a university investigated
it and checked the layers of rock, and these three
way layers of rock never naturally occur together, never in
such large quantities, and never in such a smooth layered
way that it would allow for this, so they but remember,

(01:13:21):
we have the megalithic history of this planet that we
can't account for too, and this stone is very much
falling into that category.

Speaker 1 (01:13:29):
I'm going to ask you your opinion on stories like
the Montak project or the Philadelphia experiment.

Speaker 4 (01:13:35):
Philadelphia experiment I don't think was real. It all traces
back to one man who wrote I think, like one
thing about it or maybe two articles on it, and
or blamed it. And even he can't be traced for
We know his name, we know that he existed, but

(01:13:55):
we don't know anything about him. And that's the only
real proof that we had that had ever happened. We
have checked, and I personally checked the logs of the
ship never claimed anything like that at the time. He
claimed that the ship was in Philadelphia. It was at
DOC somewhere else, quite far away. I can't think where

(01:14:15):
it was, but it was so people witnessed it there.
None of the crew members claimed that anything like that happened.

Speaker 5 (01:14:23):
They don't.

Speaker 4 (01:14:24):
There's no reports of deaths listed, so if it was
covered up, it was covered up very well, and yet
only one person ever talked about it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:31):
What about the Montalk project.

Speaker 4 (01:14:34):
That's a little stranger. That one we can't quite account for.
That's something going on that we're not sure what the
heck it was.

Speaker 5 (01:14:42):
I do know that it's really off limits.

Speaker 4 (01:14:44):
To us even now, so you know, you just have
to guess with that one.

Speaker 1 (01:14:48):
I guess that's a whole can of worms there, can't
hear it?

Speaker 5 (01:14:53):
Yeah, it really is.

Speaker 4 (01:14:54):
It's a it's a strange situation there. And of course
there's the Montalk Peace, you know, like they had one
that washed up on shore and they can't account for
what the hecky it was. And there's a photograph of
that too, and that people found it were just average
everyday people. I tend to go with that more than
anything else, because if a ghost hunter shows me videos

(01:15:16):
of a ghost that looks like something from Poltigeist, I
have my doubts because if anyone's gonna hoax something like that,
it'll be someone who knows a lot about it, and
ghost hunters do. And the same with anything in that
paranormal field.

Speaker 5 (01:15:31):
Pictures.

Speaker 4 (01:15:31):
I don't know why, but every picture I have ever
seen a bigfoot always is blurred.

Speaker 5 (01:15:36):
Why are they always blurred? Well, it used to be
our cameras weren't that good?

Speaker 4 (01:15:39):
They were taken on the fly, that sort of thing.

Speaker 5 (01:15:42):
We have some better.

Speaker 4 (01:15:43):
Pictures coming through now with phones and from average people,
which does more to convince me about Bigfoot by far
than some of these old blurry videos and pictures I've
seen from the sixties and seventies. Although I'm not saying
that they're not real, it's just that they were. And
so it's really hard to prove one way or the
other what the things were.

Speaker 1 (01:16:03):
Yeah, it's like the Patterson video was so shaky and everything.
Of course they've stabilized it in this day and aged
and that's helped some, but it was still somewhat blurry.

Speaker 4 (01:16:15):
Yeah, and it shot at a distance too, So I mean,
but I think it might be real. At that time,
people couldn't fake film that they did like that, and
I think it was especially you know, moving film like movies,
not really as easily as we can now, not even close,

(01:16:38):
And I think that that might have been a Just
because we can't prove it's real, it doesn't mean it
wasn't real, you know, an absence of evidence doesn't mean
that something doesn't exist.

Speaker 1 (01:16:48):
Yeah, have there been any documented cases of people who
seemingly vanished from one time eerror and appeared in another.

Speaker 4 (01:16:58):
Oh yeah, absolutely, it's happened a lot more than people think.
There's cases where people seemed to have driven into the past.
One good example that was well documented and a lot
of witnesses and the police were involved, was in England.
A man was in a pub and he was arguing
with other people in the pub that he could run
by the distance, and they didn't believe him. They thought

(01:17:20):
he was bragging. So they made a bet and he
was going to run on a certain distance to a
nearby town or something, and they were going to follow
right behind him in a horse and cart and make
sure they ran the whole route and didn't cheat and
take some kind of shortcut. So they did. He was
running ahead of them, and about halfway through the trip,
they saw him trip because they were right behind him,

(01:17:42):
I mean a matter of feet. He fell forward and
shouted or screamed and disappeared. He was never seen again,
completely vanished, and the police got involved. They thought there
might have been something bad going on. They thought maybe
the people had gotten drunk or hurt him and buried him.
They set the entire routes, they looked everything, they investigated

(01:18:02):
all the people, the constables, and they never found him again.

Speaker 5 (01:18:07):
Nothing.

Speaker 4 (01:18:07):
Nobody was ever dug up, nothing like that. There was
another case of an older man that sat on a
front porch. There were laborers right across the street working
on something or in a field, and he was sitting
right there watching them. He was kind of cold, and
his or his daughter was afraid he might be so
she came out and put a blanket or a coat
around him. Then she went back in the house. She

(01:18:28):
came out later and he was gone. Now the people
were right across the street saw him sitting there. They
didn't see him get up and leave, but they realized
that he was no longer on the porch. They thought
he had gone in the house.

Speaker 5 (01:18:40):
He hadn't.

Speaker 4 (01:18:41):
He wasn't in the house, he wasn't anywhere around. He
was never seen again. Nobody was ever found, nobody was
ever dug up.

Speaker 5 (01:18:47):
It's just vanished.

Speaker 4 (01:18:51):
This happens a lot.

Speaker 5 (01:18:52):
There was a case of fairly.

Speaker 4 (01:18:53):
Well documented him. I think it took place in Chili
or Peru, I want to say Chili. But some people
were hiking, a woman and her friend and they were
up in the hills and they saw this old fashioned
looking a little log cabin or a wooden cabin, and
it was all lit up and there was music coming
from it. They decided to go over and check. They thought, oh, wow, party,

(01:19:14):
let's you know, maybe.

Speaker 5 (01:19:15):
We'd get involved.

Speaker 4 (01:19:16):
So they hiked over to it and there were people
inside and they were all dressed in what they thought
were like seventeenth century costumes. So they The one woman thought, oh,
this is a costume party. So she started to step
into the room open. The door was open, and she
stepped in half way and her friend jerked her back,

(01:19:37):
and the half of her that stepped into the room
was paralyzed, completely paralyzed, and the other half was not.
And this persisted. So she went to the doctor. And
the doctor's a doctor of record, he's even reported on
it and did a a.

Speaker 5 (01:19:52):
Write up on it.

Speaker 4 (01:19:53):
He had that paralysis he couldn't account for. It was
just one side of her body and not the other.
And it wasn't a stroke. There was no sign of
a stroke or anything like that up and he remained
that way and that was it.

Speaker 5 (01:20:05):
And then there was another case of a man. He
was a professor.

Speaker 4 (01:20:08):
He walked out of university to go eat in his
car in the parking lot. There was grass all around
near the parking lot for a lot of the college students.
They saw him get in the car, they didn't see
him get out. So finally, when it was time for
classes to start and he didn't show up, some of
them sitting outside decided to go over and tap on
the window. They thought he had fallen asleep. They walked
over and he was gone, and the car was gone,

(01:20:30):
and it had never driven out of there. Then days
later they found him in a stupor in his car
miles away from there, and he couldn't account for where
he had been. I'll give you one more case. Some
people are having an outdoor party in the backyard by
a stream in England and sundry storm, so everyone ran in.

(01:20:52):
The man's dog was tied to a tree, so he
went out to get his dog, but as he.

Speaker 5 (01:20:56):
Was going out there, lightning struck. He just here.

Speaker 4 (01:21:01):
Everyone came out looking for him. They looked everywhere in
the stream around nothing. They couldn't find him. And then
he reappeared three days later in the same spot, completely
dazed and couldn't account for where he had been for
those three days. Where had he been? Was he knocked
through time by the lightning. Was he knocked into another
place and then came back. We don't know, but we

(01:21:24):
do know that these things really happened and cannot be
accounted for. And this is more the rule than the exception.

Speaker 5 (01:21:30):
In this world.

Speaker 4 (01:21:31):
We think we live in a very normal place, a
very normal universe, but we do not not at all.

Speaker 1 (01:21:38):
That's the truth.

Speaker 5 (01:21:40):
And he's ad a bit scary, isn't it.

Speaker 1 (01:21:42):
It is you never know? Do you have a while
longer or do we need to start closing it down?
I didn't ask you how long you could go on.

Speaker 5 (01:21:49):
For No, I go it longer if you like.

Speaker 1 (01:21:52):
If time travelers are real, why do you feel they
haven't openly reveiled themselves.

Speaker 4 (01:21:58):
Well, for the obvious, one would be that they don't
want to change the future. They don't want to by
changing the past, and they revealed themselves that would make
a major shift in our timeline, and it might wipe
out their future, in which case they never could have
come back to changed the timeline, in which case it
wouldn't have changed, and then they would have it would
have been a loop. So that's one reason. Another is

(01:22:22):
that they simply may be trying to alter the past
to make their present, wherever they are, what time they're in,
be more palatable to them. Maybe there was a nuclear war.
Maybe they're coming back to change circumstances. We've had nuclear
bombs since nineteen forty five. We've never used them since Japan. Ever,
Oh we've tested them, and so the Russians and so

(01:22:44):
of the Chinese, but we even stopped doing that, you know,
air tests, or even we do underground tests, but most
of it's done by computer now simulation. The other alternative
is that perhaps this is a simulation and that it
is being tweaked and changed to make the game, if
you want to call it, that be more like what

(01:23:06):
the people who waited it wanted to be. It could
be that people are coming from the future and all
the UFOs are seeing our time travelers, in which case, yeah,
we are seeing the tourists are all over the place.
The number of UFOs cited in the last few years
has really climbed a lot, and there's no doubt that
they're real. We just don't know what the heck they are.

(01:23:26):
But even the government had missed there is definitely something there,
and they've filmed it and they've detacked it and all
sorts of things, So it's quite real. That's another thing
that it could be from the future and it could
be here and we're just not recognizing it for what
it is, or it could be the.

Speaker 5 (01:23:43):
Mandela effect that they're changing the past.

Speaker 4 (01:23:46):
I wrote a book about that, and in my book,
I show actual photos. Would you like to talk about
that a little bit or would you rather start to
the okay, Well, a lot of maps of our planet
seemed to have altered over the centuries. Islands that used
to exist have disappeared. If you look at the movie

(01:24:09):
Dazed and Confused from the early nineteen nineteen nineties, I
think about ninety four, you will see two students in
class that are on suspension, and there's other ones, but
they're sitting at their desks or near a globe of Earth.
They're spitting the globe in the show. Now, this was
a low budget movie. It was a good movie, but

(01:24:30):
it was a low budget and they use an actual
school and they use an actual school globe. Now on
that globe, it shows an island off the coast of
Australia to the west, just to the west of Australia,
much bigger than Tasmania, about a fifth the size of
Australia itself.

Speaker 5 (01:24:47):
It's there on that globe. You can see it for yourself.
Look it up.

Speaker 4 (01:24:50):
It's in the movie. It's not there now, it hasn't been.
It supposedly never existed. I lived in Australia as a kid.
It was Tasmania as an island. It was Phillip's Island,
but there was no island off the west coast of
Australia anywhere near that size. Another good example is I
found this one myself. I began to get interested in

(01:25:12):
trying to find this sort of thing. If you watch
the old I Dream of Genie series, there's an episode,
I believe it's the fourth season.

Speaker 5 (01:25:21):
Where they.

Speaker 4 (01:25:24):
A guy had his head stuck by accident in a
globe and it shows him walking around with this globe
on his head, and the globe shows an island off
the coast of Australia to the west, smaller than the
one in the Days to Confuse, but it's definitely there.
Another one shows an island off the coast of very

(01:25:48):
tip of South America, quite large, just to the west
of South America. It's so clear you can see rivers
on it. You can see mountains on it. It's very
detailed map of the area. That island doesn't exist. Another
island in the Atlantic off the coast of Ireland between
Ireland and the United States had existed on maps for

(01:26:09):
almost four hundred years.

Speaker 5 (01:26:10):
It was called hy Brazil.

Speaker 4 (01:26:12):
There's even a science fiction movie that was made about
hyhyphen Brsil I believe is how it was called Hi
Brazil and this island was on maps. Various ships from
various companies countries, including their captains and crews, saw the island,
reported it and described it in detail. Doesn't exist now.

(01:26:33):
Islands in the Caribbean have disappeared completely. They were also mapped.
There's one in the several in the South Pacific where
several captains sought and several crew members saw it. They
not only described the island with cliffs and things, but
they described the flora and the fauna and drew diagrams
and descriptions of it. The island doesn't exist anymore. This

(01:26:56):
just goes on and on and on. There's so many
places where this has been happening. Off the coast of
Russian above Japan, there's an island that's disappeared. Well, we
had one quite recently as recently, it's about five or
six years ago. Sandy Hook. It was in the Pacific
northeast of Australia Aways, and it was there. It was

(01:27:20):
on maps, and I even checked it out. A Google
satellite map stows the island. It's blacked out, which is
what they usually do with military bases or stuff governments
don't want on their Google maps, and Google obliges by
literally just blacking it out. But it's in the shape
of the island and its stance, Sandy and Sandy Hook.
It's there, just blacked out. You can see it. Check

(01:27:43):
it out, and it's not there now. And not only
is it not there, but the ocean is about four
thousand feet deep there. Some people said, well, it might
have been pummice stones from a volcanic eruption floating in mass.
That didn't explain it because it was there so long
that different captains again over a couple of centuries. I
think even Captain Cook might have spotted it. Who've discovered Australia.

(01:28:07):
A Dutch captain found it. Various captains the very ships
sighted this island. They knew it was there, It's on
the maps, and then suddenly it's disappeared just recently, and
now they're saying it could never been there because the
ocean's too deep there. It wasn't shallow like the ocean
rose and covered it, or it wasn't like an atoll
or something like that. So where the heck are these

(01:28:27):
things going? Who's wiping these places out? Maps are changing.
Australia has moved closer to New Guinea. I lived in Australia.
We used to see a large body of water between
us in New Guinea. Now looks like you could practically
walk there. New Zealand has moved south. It used to
be parallel to Australia to the east of it. I've

(01:28:49):
been to New Zealand twice. When I went through, that's
exactly how I saw it on maps and stuff as being.
Now it's almost south of Australia. Only the North Island
is even like lined up with Australia at all. It's
really weird. So what's happening here? The countries have changed
in sizes and shapes. Mongolia and other maps different maps
to owther them, different sizes. Now I'm not talking about

(01:29:12):
ancient ancient maps. I'm talking about maps from the twentieth century.
So this was during modern times. So what's going on.

Speaker 5 (01:29:21):
Is someone altering our reality? Now?

Speaker 4 (01:29:23):
If it's the Mandela effect and people have altered our
reality and these things are disappearing and changing the world
as we know it, what's happening to the people? An
island of fifth the size of Australia would have had
people who live there, and they must have had relatives
in Australia. I might even had relatives there. But not
only do the island vanish, but these people vanished, And
the worst part is they never were. It says, if

(01:29:47):
they never were, there's no history, there's no record. People
may have lost sisters, brothers, mothers, fathers, and they have
no recollection of it. It's as if the people never existed,
even in their own memories. A Really, people do, and
that's what causes the mandeliics. Some of us do remember
things differently. I won't go into the Berenstein Berenstein thing.

(01:30:07):
I think that's been so overdone, but there's many but
there's so many other other things that are equally powerful.
Of course, the very name Mandel effect comes from the
idea that Mandela a lot of people remember having died
in prison.

Speaker 5 (01:30:25):
In beginning out and a lot of it.

Speaker 4 (01:30:27):
But then he also went on to be President of
South Africa, which reality is real. I actually remember both versions.
I remember it both ways.

Speaker 1 (01:30:36):
Do you remember the corner People remember the corner copeia
and the fruit of the Loom logo, but there wasn't
one it was.

Speaker 4 (01:30:45):
And also the monocle on the Monopoly game on the
cover of the guy with the top hat, little funny
guy bald had had wearing a monocle is like running
across the and that's changed. It's not there anymore. There's
no monocle.

Speaker 5 (01:31:05):
I clearly remember it, and I've.

Speaker 4 (01:31:07):
Even seen photos of old copies of Monopoly that show
it and the Ford they have this little filigree that
crosses the F on Forard like a little parly cute
and Ford said, it's been that way since what nineteen twelve,
nineteen nineteen is when they first introduced that logo, and
it's never changed. And yet they have found cars in

(01:31:29):
Junkyards that have the one logo like we see it
today on the front and the other logo without it
on the back of the car. There's another case where
a World's Fair I want to say, I think it
might have been the Seattle World's Fair, but they struck
a medallion for it, and there's another medallion. There's two medallions,

(01:31:50):
and yet the people who did the fair insist there
was only the one, that no other version was ever made.
And yet it's there, it's real. The person who has
it took photos of and showed it.

Speaker 5 (01:32:03):
You can touch it, you can feel it.

Speaker 4 (01:32:04):
Another coin that was found in Mexico is in German
and it says, I believe this says Nova Maine on it,
Nova Alamanna, which is I think Latin for New Germany.
And this coin has a day done it that places
it in our future. And yet the coin was dug

(01:32:26):
up at a construction site and it's quite old and
quite warm. There's still clear enough to have made these
things out on it, and they showed photos of that too. Now,
there was a village in Germany that was called New Germany,
but they never struck coins, they never had any money.
So was there another reality where it wasn't just a village,
but they had taken over Mexican and called it New Germany.

(01:32:47):
Maybe after World War Two the Germans won. I don't know,
but these these are physical and they're real, So how
do we account for them?

Speaker 1 (01:32:54):
It will be experiencing bled through memories from alternate realities.

Speaker 4 (01:33:01):
I think we're we're experiencing memories from our original timeline,
and our timeline has been altered, and some of us
are remembering things from the timeline before those things were altered.

Speaker 5 (01:33:12):
That's what I think.

Speaker 1 (01:33:13):
I'm sorry, I'm going through my questions. I apologized.

Speaker 5 (01:33:16):
Oh, that's quite right.

Speaker 4 (01:33:18):
I thought, maybe we're thinking, you know, yeah, some of
this stuff is pretty profound, and it does make you
start considering it, doesn't it?

Speaker 1 (01:33:25):
It does?

Speaker 4 (01:33:26):
I mean account for this? Is it's the Mandel effect?
Is are we in a simulation that they keep tweaking?
Is it people from the future changing our past? I mean,
what is going on? I have all these questions. I
have found a great deal of evidence supporting these different things,
and other people have too. I'm certainly not alone in this.

Speaker 5 (01:33:45):
Is thousands of us.

Speaker 4 (01:33:47):
But we have the questions, we have the data, but
we can't seem to come up with the answers. We
just don't know enough yet. That's why I joined Muffon
and became a field investigator. I wanted to know. I
want to a note for myself firsthand what the heck
is going on? All I can say is a lot
of this stuff seems to be real, seems to be

(01:34:08):
well documented, whether it's oop art, whether it's people vanishing,
whether it's Bigfoot, whether it's UFOs. This stuff seems to
be real, to the point where if someone pointed a
gun at my head and said, your life depends on
the answer, is it real or not? I have to
say it's real because my life's important to me and
I'd want to make the right choice. And I think

(01:34:29):
there's a ninety eight percent probability that by saying yeah,
it's real, that I'd get to go on living. So
I'm pretty well convinced this stuff is real. Where it
comes from. What's going on?

Speaker 5 (01:34:40):
I have no idea.

Speaker 1 (01:34:42):
Have you ever met someone who's Mandela effect experience was
so convincing it made you question reality?

Speaker 5 (01:34:49):
You mean personally met someone that did it? Yes, The
only one.

Speaker 4 (01:34:53):
That I personally met that did that was me, just you.
When I found that episode of I Dream of Jeannie,
I was amazed at how different the globe looked in
that show. I looked at the one in Dazed and
Confused and was amazed again. I looked at others that

(01:35:14):
I've seen pictures of, like Australia, and I'm amazed again
these are real photographs taken from real films, real movies.
I can name them.

Speaker 5 (01:35:23):
Oh you want one more?

Speaker 4 (01:35:25):
For the Friends, I believe it was the second season.
They're in the living room talking and there's a little
globe up on the shelf behind them.

Speaker 5 (01:35:32):
You know how. The room's accomas kitchen, living room.

Speaker 4 (01:35:36):
And on that globe Australia is shown prominently, so that
have to be spun for that to be there. And
next to it is an island, not to the west
of Australia, but to the south of the south of
the West Coast, about the size of Tasmania. It shows
Tasmania on the east south southeast side of Australia. And
I don't know what this other island is. It keeps

(01:35:58):
cropping up. What's happening. It's changing the movies along with
the rest of time. I don't know what's going on.

Speaker 1 (01:36:04):
It's just bizarre. It's just bizarre.

Speaker 4 (01:36:06):
It is bizarre or these glitches. I mean, you have
to remember, I dream of Genie was in the sixties.
Friends was in the nineties. Days and Confused was in
the nineties, these these have and these other shows that
I've found things that are different. They span decades, and
there's different companies that came and went making these globes.

(01:36:30):
And these globes for school would not be faked or
phonied or hoxed. And why would the movie Days Confused
to liberally fake a school globe to put an island
on the west coast of Australia where there it is
not and a large one? Or why is there a
globe that shows a picture of an island off the
south west coast of South America just above Antarctica that

(01:36:51):
isn't there? I mean, why are we seeing a globe
in I Dream of Genie this shows a different Oh,
the one in I Dream of Genie actually shows a
huge island closer to the United States than Hawaii, but
right around Central America. Now, this thing is huge, It's
about a quarter of the size of Australia, and it's

(01:37:12):
clearly there, and it's not there now. So are people
just doing this to globes at different times? It's some
kind of super pokes which generations are each generation is
trying to keep alive. You know, my parents said, I'm
going to do it. My kids are going to do
it kind of thing.

Speaker 5 (01:37:29):
I doubt it. I really doubt it.

Speaker 4 (01:37:31):
That's more far fetched than believing these are real glitches
in our timeline.

Speaker 1 (01:37:34):
Did you think things like CERN are the large hardron
colliders be affecting our reality?

Speaker 5 (01:37:43):
I'm sorry, what is it?

Speaker 1 (01:37:44):
The hard run colliders like CERN?

Speaker 5 (01:37:49):
Oh? Oh, the had dronk, Yeah, the accelorator.

Speaker 4 (01:37:53):
Yeah, there's some evidence that it might, but it's pretty iffy.
You have to remember they are smashed particles together and
at high energies. But every star in our universe does
the same thing, in every galaxy, and there's trillions upon
trillions of them doing it all the time. The X rays,
that hitterer planets, the cosmic rays, they're all high, high,

(01:38:15):
high energy particles, higher than what we can produce even
in the CERN or any other accelerator for that matter.
So I don't think there was what was causing the problem.

Speaker 1 (01:38:29):
I think.

Speaker 4 (01:38:32):
I think it's quantum computers. I think quantum computers are
causing it because it all seems to have started right
around the late nineties to twenty and tens, when this
stuff really began to start hitting the mainstream and that's right.
When the first primitive quantum computers came online. And there
is the founders of a Canadian company I can't think

(01:38:54):
of the name of the company that makes quantum computers
and claim that they have created no quantum computter, and
the stock market seems to.

Speaker 5 (01:39:02):
Agree with them.

Speaker 4 (01:39:04):
And they did a live seminar and it's on YouTube.
It's one of the founders of the company, one of
the original owners and founders of the company, and he
clearly states that the reason quantum computers can calculate such
things and work and do it so instantly is because
they communicate with quantum computers and parallel timelines, and that's

(01:39:26):
how they come up with the answer, because this universe
is a superimposed state and there's other versions of it,
and there's other quantum computers and parallel realities close to
our own. And he literally says that that's how his
quantum computers operate. I mean, no bones about it. Yeah,
it's using parallel realities in order to come.

Speaker 5 (01:39:46):
Up the answers.

Speaker 4 (01:39:47):
And you can look it up, look at go on
YouTube and look it up yourself. It's the original seminar
by the original owner. I wish you could think of
the name of the company. It's still around. But if
that's the case, then it's odd that the Mandel effects
should be hitting the mainstream right about the time that
the first quantum computer was tried in the early twenty tens,

(01:40:14):
and it seems to have come right after we started
dealing with quantum computers. So these quantum computers are accessing
parallel timelines in order to operate so quickly, and believe
in author's a lot of physics scientists that kind of
think that this is the way they work, and because
they can't seek out any how else it could possibly

(01:40:35):
be doing this. And the end result is that if
that's true, what are the side effects? You know, we
did the first atomic bombs, we didn't know what the
side effects were. We didn't know that the radiation would
kill people that badly. We didn't know that there was
even a small chance that an atomic bomb would ignite
our atmosphere and blow off the entire atmosphere of the Earth.

(01:40:56):
The mathematics showed that it was a distinct possibility, but
not a real probability. But yes, it was still a probability,
just a small one. Luckily for us, it doesn't happen.
But if there are these kind of side effects of
these new inventions, what might be the side effects of
quantum computers?

Speaker 5 (01:41:13):
When you're.

Speaker 4 (01:41:15):
Accessing different timelines? Are you causing the timelines to mesh,
to come together and then come apart? Are we interfering
with parallel Are they.

Speaker 5 (01:41:24):
As messed up as you seem to be? I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:41:27):
We're pretty messed up.

Speaker 5 (01:41:29):
Yep, pretty much stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:41:31):
Yeah, But look on the bright side, if all this,
or at least a lot of it is true or
is real, then the universe is far more mysterious, far
more magnificent, and far stranger than we ever thought it was.

Speaker 5 (01:41:45):
Ops, my cat just turned on my laser printer. There
we go. Yeah, and it's printing.

Speaker 1 (01:41:53):
He's trying to tell you it's time to get off
the air and go to bed.

Speaker 5 (01:41:56):
I think, yeah, probably. Well, I hope I haven't warned
it too much of all this stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:42:02):
Oh No, I'm going to ask one last question, and
I'm going to let you mention your website and any
books that you would like our listeners to take a
look at. The question is, after researching the shadow people, UFOs, ghosts, scriptives,
and time travel, what single mystery do you believe has
the greatest chance of fundamentally changing humanity's understanding of reality?

Speaker 4 (01:42:27):
Oh lord, it could be any one of them. It
could be time travel, it could be the Mandela effects.
You all seem to be the big current thing right now,
that's something. Let me put it this way. When I
think of all these things and what they might mean
for us, one line keeps coming up in my head,
and it comes from Shakespeare's Macbeth, and it's three witches

(01:42:48):
standing by a cauldron as a scotsman approaches by the
name of Macbeth, and the witches say to each other,
by the pricking of my thumb, something wicked this way comes.
And that's what I'm afraid of. That something wicked may
be coming. I hope not. I hope it's something positive,
something like something airy. But for our own safety and

(01:43:09):
security in our own future, we have to assume that
it might also be wicked or evil or bad for
us in one way or another.

Speaker 1 (01:43:17):
Well, the way things are going, expecting the worst, I'll
put it that way.

Speaker 4 (01:43:24):
Well, I don't expect the worst. I fear the worst,
but I hope for the best. The way I look
at it, I mean The idea is the more deity have,
the more information having to work with, the more you
can do something about it. If we just think UFOs
are our imagination and there's nothing real about it, then
we can't do anything about it when people see it,
or they hurt people, and they do hurt people. They've

(01:43:47):
killed people, they've irradiated people, they've damaged property, they've destroyed lives,
not just now, but throughout history, it seems, and I
mean as far back as Alexander the Great and even longer.
So you know the old song from the eighties, what's
going on? That's kind of my feeling about what's going on?

(01:44:08):
Something's going on? Yeah, something is going on, but what
you know?

Speaker 1 (01:44:13):
Would you like to give our listeners your web address?

Speaker 5 (01:44:17):
I don't bother with it.

Speaker 4 (01:44:18):
I have a Rob Shawsky at blogspot dot com and
I've filed it up with a lot of podcast shows
or links to them and my books. But the easiest
way is just google me, Rob Schulsky. Just google me
or go to Amazon and you'll find almost all my
books at Amazon. If not there, they will be at
Permuted Press or Simon and Schuster, which I'm rather proud

(01:44:38):
of because Simon and Schuster did the Harry Potter books.

Speaker 1 (01:44:41):
What's your latest.

Speaker 5 (01:44:42):
Quote, uh, fiction or nonfiction?

Speaker 1 (01:44:47):
Nonfiction?

Speaker 4 (01:44:49):
Nonfiction? I believe is Vanished Mysterious Disappearance of Pounds in
the Appalachian Mountains. And the one just before that was
a Shadow People. And I'll be honest if they can't
remember the whole title. With a few books, it all
starts to buller after a while.

Speaker 5 (01:45:08):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:45:09):
Well, I have them listed on my website at NWDN
dot net and they can go there and click on
your links and the book links and check out your work.

Speaker 4 (01:45:21):
Oh cool, Thank you very much, sir.

Speaker 1 (01:45:23):
Well, sir, I will let you get on with your evening,
and it's been an honor having you here, and hopefully
we'll have you back in the future and discuss some
other topics.

Speaker 5 (01:45:34):
Yeah, that would be cool.

Speaker 4 (01:45:35):
I really enjoyed it, and you asked very pertinent questions.
So often you get hosts that just go off on
these weird tangents or just want to expand on their
own theories. You really researched this and came at it
very logically. I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (01:45:50):
Well. I kind of did a quick change from the
Shadow People to the time subject, but I wasn't sure
how long we'd be able to go the savenings.

Speaker 4 (01:45:57):
So oh well, that's fine. I like to talk about
it all, as you can guess, I'm kind of a talker,
but I really appreciate being on your show. Thank you
very much.

Speaker 1 (01:46:07):
Well, I appreciate you being here, and we'll definitely be
back in touch with you about future shows.

Speaker 5 (01:46:13):
Okay, and you have a good night, sir.

Speaker 1 (01:46:16):
You too, have a good one.

Speaker 3 (01:46:17):
Joining host Carl Richardson as he interviews top guests in
various fields of study, now airing live every Saturday night
from nine to eleven Central Time and ten pm to
midnight Eastern.

Speaker 1 (01:46:30):
As tonight's journey comes to an end, we've traveled through
some of the strangest corners of the unknown, from shadowy
figures standing silently in the darkness, to the possibility that
time itself may be more flexible than we imagine. Tonight's
conversation reminds us that reality may be far more mysterious
than our current understanding allows. Whether shadow people are psychological phenomenon,

(01:46:56):
interdimensional visitors, temporal anomalies are something entirely different, one thing
remains certain people continue to report these encounters and the
questions they raise deserve to be answered. A special thank
you to Rob Shelsky for sharing his insights, research and
decades of experience investigating the unexplained. And as we sign

(01:47:19):
off tonight, don't forget to join us next Saturday night,
right here on Midnight Frequency Radio. Our guests will be
Melissa Morton, and we'll be discussing the life, research and
enduring legacy of Sean David Morton, exploring his predictions, investigations
into consciousness, time, prophecy, and questions that continue to surround

(01:47:42):
his work years later. It's a conversation that promises to
be thought provoking, controversial, and filled with stories that many
listeners have never heard before until then, for the late
Art Bell Joshua Stark, I'm Carl Richardson and this has
been mind Night Frequency Radio

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