Saturday March 21st 2026 1st Hour Loyd Auerbach 2nd Hour Photo Luke Hawaii

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:23):
Step into the shadows and night is a line Midnight Fregrancy,
wear the.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Secrets Drive voices from my Michael here.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
They'm great on a journey through the darkness.

Speaker 4 (00:33):
Are you ready to lead Aliens and Bigfoot stories on tour?

Speaker 5 (00:38):
Whispers from the Cosmos?

Speaker 3 (00:39):
Mid morning or evening wherever you may be.

Speaker 5 (00:41):
From the Ozark Foothills in northeast Arkansas, I'm Carl Richardson
and this is Midnight Frequency Radio.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
Our first guest this evening is Lloyd Auerbach. Lloyd is
a world recognized paranormal authority and parapsychologist. He has forty
five plus years of experience and investigating the paranormal. In
over forty years teaching courses in parapsychology, Lloyd has thousands
of media appearances. He is the Director of the Office

(01:10):
of Paranormal Investigations, President of the Forever Family Foundation, and
a junct professor at Atlanta University, and president of the
Board of Directors of Rhine Research Center, where he teaches
online parapsychology courses to the Rhine Education Center. Lloyd is
the author co author of nine books on a paranormal

(01:32):
for the general public, including the second edition of a
Paranormal Casebook, as well as ESP Wars East and West,
Psychic Dreaming in the classic ESP Huntings, and Poultrygeist, a
Parapsychologist Handbook. He is the co author of the paranormal
mystery novels Near Death, A Rainy Day Investigation and Afterlife,

(01:56):
the second in the series. Lloyd is a professional mentalist
and past president of the Psychic Entertainers Association, performing as
Professor Paranormal and also occasionally does his thing as a
professional chocolate tier. Currently you can find Lloyd on episodes
of The Unexplained running on a few streaming platforms, Surviving

(02:17):
Death on Netflix, and a number of other shows still
streaming on various platforms. Lloyd, Welcome to Midnight Frequents the Radio.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Thank you, Carl.

Speaker 5 (02:28):
The most pertinent question I can think of right now
is what is a chocolate tear?

Speaker 6 (02:34):
Okay, So, a chocolate tier is someone who buys bulk
chocolate that's produced by some good companies typically, and then
we kind of melt it down, retemper it and put
it into all sorts of other products, whether you know,
we might blend it with other chocolates, we might make
little trumples or bond bonds and other things, and that

(02:56):
is opposed to a chocolate maker who might make some
of the same things, but they start with the beans,
with cocoa beans.

Speaker 5 (03:02):
That's an interesting topic. But I'm a diabetic.

Speaker 6 (03:06):
Well you know I'm diabetic too, so stick with really
dark chocolate. It's not going to hit your blood shirgar
the same way.

Speaker 5 (03:15):
Yeah, I keep a few bars around just in case
I do have a bottoming out episode. What first drew
you into the field of parapsychology and paranormal investigations.

Speaker 6 (03:26):
Well, with something that I was really interested in as
a kid because of television shows that I saw as
a child. I had a TV set in my room
when I was two because my dad worked for NBC
and at the time there were shows like One Step
Beyond in Syndication which dramatized real psychic experiences. And there

(03:47):
was a great ghost show called Topper, which was based
on an old novel and it was really it was
a comedy. It was a sitcom and the ghosts were
fun loving. There was a ghost, Saint Bernard, who tried
to rescue the couple when they were caught in an avalanche,
and they all drank a lot, so the spirits, drinking

(04:08):
spirits that combined with science fiction and comic books as
I grew up, and my interest in science. When I
discovered books on parapsychology and the library, probably when I
was about twelve, I really felt like I've found a
niche for myself. I found what I was interested in
for that. The investigation part really came much later.

Speaker 3 (04:29):
Well.

Speaker 6 (04:29):
I was originally thinking about doing laboratory work, but really
got captivated by doing more of investigative stuff after I
majored in anthropology at Northwestern.

Speaker 5 (04:39):
Was there any single one experience that made you say
this is real?

Speaker 6 (04:45):
I've had not that got me into the field, But
since I've been in the field, I've had certain experiences that,
for example, that couple out of body experiences. This is
after I was working in the field after graduating from
the university with my degree in parapsychology. I had one

(05:08):
ghost case in the early nineteen eighty five, and at
that point I wasn't sure whether or not we were
dealing only with residual hauntings or if there really was
consciousness after death in that way. And this one case
there was no other good explanation for the amount of
information I got from the kid who was talking to

(05:29):
the ghost every day in a family that had individually
all seen the ghost as well and had not been
talking about it with each other until about a year
and a half into them living in this house. And
the information was there was some stuff that was about
the city itself that they lived in the city of Livermore,

(05:49):
that the kid could have learned at school, but they
were family stories because the previous owner had grown up
in the house, actually was born there, and I was
able to track down her only living relative who's an
assisted living nearby, and he confirmed all the stories and
there were no diaries or anything like that, so then
there was a little bit more to it than that too.

Speaker 5 (06:12):
How does your work with the Rhine research and shape
your approach?

Speaker 6 (06:16):
Well, I got involved with the Rhine. I was always
aware of it, and in fact JB. Rhyan wrote a
supporting letter for me when I was in high school
because I started a parapsychology club in my high school
in wester County in New York, and his was one
of the letters that I had asked for support. So
I was always aware of the Rhine of the work

(06:37):
at the Rhine. I got involved. I think probably it's
a little over twenty years now, maybe just a little
bit more, due to a conference on life after Death
and Evidence for Life after Death that I attended and
spoke at for them, and over time I've gotten more
and more involved. So I've always been an educator. When

(06:57):
I got out of came back to California after being
in New York for a couple of years. After graduate school,
I was teaching at John F. Kennedy University in the
parapsychology program, which unfortunately ended a few years later, but
continued to teach parapsychology there for a while. And then
in the early two thousands, I was teaching at a
local place here in the Bay Area. When the Rhine

(07:18):
Center started up their education center wanted to do start
doing online courses. John Kruth, who's the executive director, contacted
me about one of being one of the instructors because
I had so much experience for graduate school and also
for adult ed teaching people. So a lot of what
I've been doing all the time since I've been in

(07:39):
the field. Even though I'm better known as an investigator,
I've probably been more of an educator than anything else.
In fact, all of the stuff that I've done for
the media has been because of education. I want to
get the word out and really to the general public
more than anything else. So it does impact me quite
a bit there, and I'm very busy with teaching for them.
But a couple of years ago they asked me. I've

(08:00):
been on the board for ten years and they asked
me to take over, voted me and as president and
so just kind of running things. And I'm very happy
to say that in the last couple of years the
Rhine Center has done incredibly well in fundraising. And so
even though we lost our lease on the building in

(08:20):
Durham building was sold out from under us back late
last fall, we actually have the money to buy a building.
We're still looking for commercial real estate in the Durham,
North Carolina area to buy something a bigger space with
potential for expansion.

Speaker 5 (08:34):
That's great. What do you feel is the biggest misconception
people have about the paranormal investigation?

Speaker 6 (08:42):
Possibly, Well, there's a couple of big ones. One is
that what you see on television is what really happens,
and that's not I mean, that's not the way you
approach a case scientifically. And part of that is, there's
no reason to investigate in the dark unless that's literally
the only condition under which people are having their experiences.

(09:03):
That's all a manufacturer by television, and in fact, all
of the data going back one hundred and forty years
of people's experiences with ghosts and hauntings, the phenomena takes
place either during the day or with the lights on.
So darkness makes no sense. And it's just pure folklore
that ghosts need darkness to manifest. That just doesn't happen.

(09:26):
It's not necessary at all.

Speaker 5 (09:28):
On all these paranormal television shows and everything, how much
do you believe is possibly fabricated strictly for the camera?

Speaker 6 (09:37):
I think that I know that in a couple of
instances for a couple of the major shows, they've had
exposure of stuff. And I've also known from a couple
of people who are the clients on these shows how
much didn't really happen the way they said it did.
I don't know in any given circumstance. It's hard to
know when there is fab vcation of people reacting to

(10:03):
things because the directors and this is not just for
the paranormal shows, this is common for reality shows. In general,
something happens. So I'll give you an example. Something happens
on Real Housewives and they have a couple of them
have an argument, and the director stops everything and says,

(10:23):
let's do that again, but this time yell at each other.
In other words, they're directing them to behave a certain way.
There's that part of it, and that happens in these
ghost hunting shows. And the other part of it is editing.
These shows are edited to whatever the production people, again
maybe not involving the investigators or the network decides needs

(10:44):
to happen in the shows. And on occasion, and I
know of a couple show years ago where the investigators
were given bad information, incorrect information on the location, and
they went with it, which was a mistake. They should
have been questioning it instead. It's not always the investigators
that are doing things. It's it's most often I think

(11:04):
I put the blame on the producers more than anybody
else for these shows. But it's just like any reality show,
you can't believe that that's actually what's happening.

Speaker 5 (11:13):
Well, I'm in on Hollywood, even the movie Communion with
Whitley Strieber's story. Yeah, Hollywood just went off the deep
in on some of that stuff just to make it
more interesting for the movie viewers. But if you read
the book, it's quite a difference. So it doesn't it
doesn't surprise me these directors Will.

Speaker 1 (11:35):
Well's.

Speaker 6 (11:35):
It's not just that. I mean, let's face it, They're
they're trying to sell a movie, the trying to sell story,
and the fact is when it's fictionalized. I mean a
good example is the Entity case, which my couple of
my colleagues, Kerry Gainor and Barry Taff investigated. It was
a poldergeist case and there was real phenomena, but Frankie
Felita wrote a novel based on that case. So he

(11:58):
wrote a fictional account of the actual case, and with
that fictional account he threw in a lot more horror
or terrifying elements, like the woman was being sexually attacked,
a whole bunch more things in there. And then that book,
the fictional account, was what the movie was based on,
not the actual case. So Hollywood is trying to sell

(12:22):
a story. And anytime you know these days, they usually
say inspired by a true story. Because I think too
many production companies have gotten in trouble when they said
based on a true story, since based on really means
it's inspired by that. That's about it. That they've really
kind of changed their tune. But it is fictional, and

(12:43):
you need sometimes fiction to come into play to keep
the story moving. I mean, frankly, a lot of the
cases I have are interesting, but they'd never be able
to make a movie out of it. There just isn't
enough there.

Speaker 5 (12:54):
I don't know. I think I would rather see something
more truthful, and it may be boring, but I'm interested
in the actual account and.

Speaker 6 (13:03):
Not well, yeah, you know, I mean I am too,
I know what you're saying. On television, I've worked with
production companies who are really interested in doing that exactly
that for ghost hunting shows, and typically it's the networks
that are the network executives who know nothing about the subject,
by the way, who have decided that that's not you know,
the truth is not going to get good ratings. So

(13:26):
these are you know, it's not like these are nonprofits.
They're they're out for money and they need advertisers and
all sorts of stuff to sell. And you can't make
a multimillion dollar movie if people are not going to
go see it.

Speaker 5 (13:41):
That's true. Yeah, out of all your cases, is there
one particular one that stands out to be the most
compelling to you?

Speaker 6 (13:49):
You know, that's a that's actually a tough question because
I have the case I referenced earlier about the boy
being able to communicate with the ghosts with really good
information coming through. Was an incredibly compelling case for myself
and my co investigators because again, there was no really

(14:10):
good explanation outside of there being a conscious enity and
apparition present. So from that perspective, it's very compelling. I've
had a lot of really interesting experiences over the years.
There are I had a case in which a woman
believes she was being attacked by something and we saw

(14:31):
and which was invisible to everybody else, but it turned
out to be and we actually saw an attack. Myself
and a fellow faculty member saw an attack where her
throat bulged out and it looked like finger depressions on
either side of her throat. But as we determined, even
right after the attack, which by the way, stopped when
I yelled at whatever it was, we determined there was

(14:54):
a purely psychological issue involved in this. This was very
compelling for me because there's an illustration. As we worked
through the case and also worked with my colleague worked
with a therapist. The woman was already seeing for nightmare
she was having about her father or deceased father when
when she was much younger molesting her as a child,

(15:17):
she had had recovered memories. There was a psychological reason
that her consciousness, her mind was actually affecting her own
body in this way. There was no external force that
was attacked here. It was internal that was doing that.
We see that happening unfortunately in cases a lot of
not a lot of cases, but that comes up quite
a bit. It's very compelling in the sense that it

(15:37):
shows how much power we have over our own bodies,
if only we could turn it into a positive and
some people do.

Speaker 5 (15:45):
Have you ever encountered something that you still can't explain
during your investigations?

Speaker 6 (15:51):
Well, certainly had cases where we were undecided as to
what kind of phenomena, whether it was conscious what people
were experiencing, was something conscious or uh, something that was
more of a you know, them picking up on a
residual haunting kind of thing. Those happened, But I can't

(16:13):
say that I have anything that was unexplained just where
we were just not sure the final conclusion, partly because
we never got the got enough information to make that
determination in the situation. You know, we have explanations in parapsychology.
They may not be they may be considered unexplained by
other people, but we still have categories and patterns that

(16:35):
we fit we can fit these things into, so not
truly unexplained for us. But that doesn't mean that we
know how exactly somebody ends up surviving the death their body,
or how the mechanism that the that records the information
for residual haunting. For those kinds of things.

Speaker 5 (16:52):
One of the most common types of hauntings people report.

Speaker 6 (16:56):
Well, actually interestingly enough, I think it's one that everybody's
experienced generally, or pretty much most adults. If you go
house hunting or apartment hunting, and you walk into a
living space that feels great or feels terrible, and it's
not because of the decor or any smell for that matter,

(17:21):
you are likely picking up on the emotions of the
people living there who are selling the house. You Now,
if we talk about residual hauntings as being imprint of
people and activity, including living people, because living people leave
the imprints behind and that can be at the base
it's emotional, but there can be more than that in

(17:42):
some instances. But that's something everybody's experienced. So when you
ask about the most common hauntings picking up vibes, you
might say that's probably the most common that people experience
for those things. And then there are people tend to
report that they've picked up something negative, because most people
are perfectly okay experiencing something positive, and that includes having

(18:04):
a visual impression of something that happened there. But if
there's something negative, like a murder or somebody in danger
or something like that, those things get reported more often.

Speaker 5 (18:17):
What does a typical investigation look like from start to
finish for you.

Speaker 6 (18:21):
Well, we start with an interview on the phone or
on zoom on rare occasions, by email. This is where
you know, sometimes we have now these days, sometimes they
get really people have objections, they don't want to be
interviewed up front. The fact is that if we don't

(18:42):
do a good interview up front, we don't know whether
it's worthy of investigation. And so we start out with
questions about what's happened, but also who it's happened to,
So who are the witnesses in the case, we want
to be able to talk to some of them before
we even go out. Want to know when things happened,
When did it start? But when was the last thing

(19:03):
that happened? We need to know that there's some currentness
to it. I've had people call me asking for an
investigation because they happen to see my name or find
contact information for me, and they really want an investigation.
So when was the last time something happened a year
ago and before that? Well, that was it? This is
what I say. So it's like, what am I You know,

(19:26):
there's nothing to investigate. Tell me of your story. I'll
tell you what it might be. That's about all it is.
So we have to have an idea that there's still
some activity happening. And then really the other thing is
just pure logistics. Although now because of Zoom, we can
handle some things. You know, certainly interviews and such can
be handled virtually as much as we possibly can once

(19:48):
we determine that it may be something. And by the way,
one of the things I do and teach my students
to do is ask the clients to and not only
tell us what you know. The major things that happened,
but what else do you think happened that the ghost
or the phenomena is causing and exploring possible normal explanations

(20:10):
with them over the phone, first over zoom, and then
if it's logistically possible to go out go out there.
I usually have at least one other person, if not
too when I send out folks, they we tell people
not to go alone, and that has nothing to do
with the paranormal. It's just because of living people, you
have to worry about them, and I will often personally,

(20:33):
I will often try to work with a psychic or medium.
I have a few that I've worked with over time,
just because they can sometimes pick up things about the people,
if not the phenomena when we're going in. But they're
also trained in, you know, the other techniques in the
investigation as well. So on site we're doing a lot
of interviewing. And if there's let's say three people in

(20:53):
the family, we're interviewing them together. We're splitting them up
and interviewing them separately, asking some of the same questions. Again.
We're taking them through the house, let's say, where things happen.
We interview them again there because we need the ghost story,
and we need to get the full scope of what
happened when everybody is really experienced. Also, before we go out,
I tell people, the clients, to start keeping track of

(21:16):
anything between the time that we're on the phone and
we get there. Write down everything that happens that you
think is related, When it happened, where it happened in
the house, and so on, who saw it, Because we're
trying to take each of the events that people experience
or report and look for a normal explanation first. So
unlike television where they say they're going into debunk the

(21:38):
case first, debunking implies fraud, and that's a rare thing
when people call somebody like me, we're going in to
find normal explanations and then study or figure out what's left.
When people are freaked out, it's natural for them to
mistake ordinary occurrences, things they didn't notice about their house

(22:00):
as part of the ghost case. It's just a normal thing.
You're on edge. So we have to separate all that
out so we can try to figure out what's really
going on. We do use environmental sensors like any ums sensor,
and if they report cold spots, we try to use thermometers,
although that's almost never a real cold spot, and we're

(22:22):
looking for anything in the environment that might reflect their experience.
So typically anything that's going on in the environment at
the same time that they were a psychic or having
an experience that we can connect to it the device
is unlike what they show on TV. This is another
big misconception. There are no devices that anyone has created

(22:45):
that can definitively detect ghosts or hauntings or anything else
or psychic energy because we don't know what we're trying
to detect. We don't know what it's made out of.
These things are made out of, so that's a major issue.
But we do use these sensors to try to see
if there's anything in the environment. Sometimes what's going on
in the environment makes people think that they have a ghost,

(23:08):
and that's another thing these devices can help us with.
We're going through and then we gather all that together.
The investigators talk about what we pulled from the witness testimony.
We try to determine what what may be going on
and offers solution, resolution, possible things that can be done
to help resolve the situation for them.

Speaker 5 (23:29):
I've played the paranormal game Fasto Phobia. It's just a game.
But yeah, I'm familiar with the gadgets they have because
they have them all in the games, the electronic voice
phenomenon and the thermostats and you name it. It's in
the game, and it's a fun game. But like I say,
that's all it is. It's just a game.

Speaker 6 (23:50):
Well, I think that's a lot of what it really is,
because the TV shows what is.

Speaker 5 (23:54):
The difference between the residual haunting and intelligent haunting.

Speaker 6 (24:00):
First, my people might feel don't like to use the
phrase intelligent haunting, and I personally have a problem with that. Okay,
number one, haunting, A haunting represents a location and if
you really have something conscious, something we would call an apparition,
people might call a ghost, But it's a consciousness after death.

(24:21):
Conscious not necessarily intelligent, partly because not all human beings
are intelligent. I think that's sometimes giving too much credit
to the dead. So when we talk about a haunting,
you know, just using that word haunt, that represents a
place where activity is happening. But then you know that
word used to be using old detective show detective movies

(24:42):
in the nineteen thirties and forties, and you could say
that Norman and Cliff were haunting Cheers on the TV
show Cheers because they were the regulars. So we use
a term apparition, which implies a conscious mind that is
sticking around and can be perceived in some way, shape
or for whereas a residual haunting or just a haunting

(25:05):
is there's information about human activity generally that happened in
that location over time. It could be from very recent activity,
it could be one hundred years old, but it all
represents something leaving people were doing at the time it
was recorded. So hauntings residual hauntings really have nothing more

(25:29):
to do with the dead than old movies have to
do with the dead.

Speaker 5 (25:34):
Is it like the the Location Foundation kind of records
things from the past, then it replays it.

Speaker 6 (25:42):
It's mostly it's more likely and this is still speculation,
but we have some evidence for this. It's more likely
something like the Earth's magnetic field or something akin to
that in the location in that spot, so it's from
the land, not necessarily from the building itself. On the
other hand, you know there's an old psychic ability called
secoma which people have been using for centuries, which The

(26:03):
word psychometry represents the ability to hold or touch an
object and get information from the object about the owner
and where it's been, you know, its origins, where it's traveled,
things like that, and some psychics are really good at that.
If you're in a house, you're in a big object.
So it may actually be that any object can hold
information that we as living people, would be picking up psychically.

(26:28):
So when somebody experiences a haunting, they are being psychic
to do that.

Speaker 5 (26:34):
Okay, have you ever been on any investigations where you've
generally felt in danger?

Speaker 6 (26:39):
Yeah, but it was because of living people, not because
of anything.

Speaker 5 (26:41):
Else, makes sense.

Speaker 6 (26:43):
Yeah, Yeah, there are a couple of domestics, domestic situations
I walked into, I was called into, and to turnout
there was it was let's say, almost knocked down to
drag out.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
Fight type stuff.

Speaker 6 (26:56):
Yeah, there have been a couple of places is that
people have wanted me to go to. But when I
looked at those locations, this is another problem that a
lot of the ghost unting groups are always looking for
a place to investigate, and they'll go to any spooky
old building that's been abandoned, and that's not a great idea.
For a number of reasons, one of which is they

(27:17):
may be trespassing because somebody probably still loans that property.
But more importantly, you're walking into a situation might be
that they might be physically unsafe. And there have been
a couple of places that I've been into where parts
of the location were let's say, unstable, and I wasn't
about to go into them. But I mean, I'll be
very honest, Carl, I have I have never had anything

(27:37):
to fear from anything paranormal whatsoever.

Speaker 5 (27:41):
How do you balance scientific methodology with phenomenon.

Speaker 6 (27:45):
In the laboratory, that's pretty easy to do because you're
in control of the environment and you set up very
specific tasks for people to try or to experience in
the field, you know, in the homes in the public locations,
we're not in control of any part of the environment generally,
so we're trying to apply the scientific method as much

(28:07):
as possible in a given case. But there's two issues here. One,
because there's not a control on the environment, you can't
always apply the actual scientific method. But we can apply
the findings of past parapsychologists, both in the laboratory and
also in field research and field work that people like
I do, so we're able to apply the science what

(28:29):
we've learned in these cases. The other side of this
very honestly, when you're in the field, if you're going
to a residential case, if people have asked you for help,
we feel very strongly in our field in parapsychology that
the most important thing, even beyond gathering scientific evidence or
any evidence at all, is helping the people. That is

(28:53):
kind of an ethical mandate that we have. We almost
have to toss science out the window sometimes in fact
to do that a few times, almost creating placebo rituals
for them because that's what they needed, even though we
could do a resolution on the phenomena separately from a
we're scientific perspective.

Speaker 5 (29:13):
So psychology actually plays a large part in the pteranormal experience.

Speaker 6 (29:18):
Yeah, yeah, I mean these are subjective experiences, you know.
The only objective things that really we can say is
sometimes the information can be objective, can be objectively proven
to be true that people pick up and in poltergeist
cases where things are moving, those are physical things that
people can observe it and sometimes even record moving or happening.

Speaker 5 (29:41):
How often is the case, and I'm sure it's a
high number turned out to be a non paranormal explanation.

Speaker 6 (29:48):
I don't really know a good number here to say.
To tell you, I will tell you that at least
ninety ninety five percent of the cases that I've had
had some part of what they were reporting had normal explanations.
And some of those cases were fully normal. But usually

(30:09):
in every single case that I've had, there's been some
events that they were reporting, some experiences that did have
good explanations. Even if the case had what we think
was a real apparition or real haunting, things like that,
it's just again, it's a part of the normal process here.
There are other you know, there are people who report

(30:29):
who go elsewhere to find explanations, and some people We've
had some really good cases in our history where the
first people that the clients went through were the fire
department or plumbers or electricians or police, and then parapsychologists
got involved in the case. In some instances, those other

(30:50):
folks figured out that it was a normal explanation, and
in fact, there was a survey that came out I
believe in twenty twenty one Realtor Association of realtors who
were reporting that some of their clients or people they
had sold homes to during the lockdown were reporting the

(31:12):
houses were haunted and the things that they were reporting,
the realtors figured out were not paranormal for the most part,
because what they were reporting were things like house settling
noises and issues with the pipes and things like that
that the people, even if they've lived there for five
years or more, they had never been locked in their

(31:32):
homes for twenty four hours a day for weeks on end,
so they hadn't noticed that stuff. Now they're noticing it,
and maybe they were watching too many paranormal shows during
the lockdown, but that was their conclusion. So we have
to we handle a lot of this on the initial interview.
That's another reason we do that initial interview is sometimes
we can figure out that it's a normal explanation and

(31:53):
we don't have to go anywhere.

Speaker 5 (31:55):
Other than the stuff that you just mentioned. I'll talk
right here in a second. What are the false positives
to people mistake for paranormal activity.

Speaker 6 (32:08):
There are any number of perceptual things that we make
mistakes in the world. So we had a case which
kind of illustrates a bunch of different false positives. Family
of four living had moved into this house that had
been built only a year or so before, actually designed

(32:29):
by an architecture professor at a local university. And they
moved in and there was all such of weird stuff
going on, and they all four of them were experiencing
this and I'm gonna tell you what it is in
a moment. But they contacted a number of universities here
in the Bay Area. They called University of California, Berkeley, they
called University of San Francisco, they called San Francisco State,

(32:51):
Stanford Universe, they called all the major universities. They never
called John F. Kennedy University, which is really small, which
is the one that had the parapsychology program. Much later,
they actually even spoke to skeptics, the Skeptics organization, and
every for every single call that they made, they were
funneled to accept the skeptics. They were funneled directly to

(33:11):
the psyche department and told that they all needed to
come in for psychological testing. They called the skeptics, they
told the guy said the same thing, go for psych testing.
You guys are crazy. So they finally ended up talking
to the local police department who happened to be somebody
at the police department who knew about us at JFK
University and called that came to me. So what they

(33:35):
were reporting was number one, there was a room in
the house where people fell dizzy, especially in one spot,
and were getting very nauseous. It was bad vibes. There
was a really weird buzz in the background. They were
seeing shadows out of the corner of their eyes. They
were getting noxious odors like appearing out of nowhere in

(33:56):
mid air and sometimes moving around a little bit in
the house. There were fireballs, like little miniature fireballs that
were appearing in the house and sometimes scorching things, not
fully burning things, of scorching things. So there there there
were places in the house they were getting headaches and such.
All right, So we got there and as we're approaching

(34:17):
the house, which was right behind us a hill, uh
and uh. One of the people on my team at
the time was the husband of one of my students,
was a civil engineer and knew quite a bit about
zoning and building homes and such, and he looks at
the house. The house was on a concrete block foundation,

(34:42):
so there was a crawl space under the house too,
and he noticed right away that this one room right
under this one room, the house was slightly off its foundation.
When we also got When we got there and got
out of our cars, we're gonna, you know, brought the
equipment the EMF sensors. I immediately looked around, and houses
directly under high tension power lines. EMF sensors are completely

(35:03):
useless because the power lines give off a lot of
electromagnetic field. We also notice a buzz, and it was
a high buzz, and there was kind of a low buzz.
And did a little checking and the low buzz included
low frequency sound. Low frequency sound can vibrate your eyeballs
and make you see shadows out of the corner of
your eyes, and also makes you feel uneasy. We get

(35:25):
into the house, they're showing us the scorch marks and
all that, and the one room where people felt nauseous
was directly above where the house was off its foundation.
So I pulled out a couple of tools that I
often used to check things in homes. I had a
carpenter's level and I had a protractor. Because being off

(35:47):
the foundation, the floor was not exactly level, and the
windows and doors were not exactly ninety degrees, and even
though they looked ninety degrees to your sites, your perception
of that there's a conflict between what it really is
and what you think you're seeing, and that causes headaches
and can cause dizziness and things like that, especially combined

(36:08):
with a low frequency sound. The smells, well, interestingly enough,
I sent one of my people to the hill behind
the house and they went up to the top of
the small hill and they looked down right on the
other side of the hills, the Martinez Landfill. The smells
and noxious odors were methane gas seeping up through the ground,
and we did check there was high static electricity, partly

(36:30):
because of the building materials in the type of insulation
that was used and the high tension wires, and occasionally
these little bursts of nip methane gas were catching on fire.
So there's not a single thing that was paranormal. But
all those things together, this family could not possibly have
known what to look for. This is something we have
to understand in our field. But it also says, you know,

(36:53):
like shame on those other universities completely just ridiculous, because
there's so much stuff that people can experiencedance that is
not psychological, but can cause a psychological impact or a
perceptual impact. Black mold is another very dangerous thing that
can cause significant health problems that also cause hallucinations. And

(37:15):
if they had If somebody who is living in a
house of black mold and has hallucinations of seeing a
figure and they call a psychologist, there's a good chance
they're going to be told to come in for psych testing,
or come in to see them, or go to psychiatrists.
But nobody thinks to check the environment in their home
to see whether or not there's an actual physical cause

(37:36):
of what's going on.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
For that.

Speaker 5 (37:37):
Has mainstream science become more open to this study or
do they still consider it? Yeah?

Speaker 6 (37:45):
You know, yeah, I know which you mean? Well, you know,
mainstream science was a lot more open to this until
the Committee for Scientific Investigations of the Claims of the Paranormal,
the Skeptics Organization, people like the Amazing Randy and a
whole bunch of other folks made it their mission to
make sure academics were uncomfortable if they even expressed any

(38:07):
interest in the subject. This is turning around a bit.
It's turning around quite a bit. I think because of
the interest in a major question for all sciences, which
is what is consciousness. That's something there's been a developing
science of consciousness studies and research, and my field, parapsychology

(38:31):
has been dealing with phenomena of consciousness since the eighteen hundreds.
So we've had more people looking at our field in
a very different light because we are dealing with these
issues of what consciousness is, especially if it can exist
outside the brain and even after death. So that's the
angle for which we're getting kind of inroads and where

(38:52):
people are coming to us. But it's still there's still
have a lot of academic prejudice in the US and
the UK not quite as much. In other country is
not as much.

Speaker 5 (39:02):
We were discussing all the ghost hunting television shows and stuff,
but do you feel all this and socialism has damaged
to credibility in the field.

Speaker 6 (39:11):
Well, it hasn't damaged our credibility in the field, you know,
the parapsychology in the field parapsychologists, partly because we're kind
of most of those shows don't involve us at all.
In fact, to producers of a couple of the shows
were very adamant not to involve any scientists. The shows
were about the ghost hunters, they weren't about trying to

(39:34):
figure out what was really going on. So in that sense,
it hasn't impacted us that much. I'd say that it
impacts us in the sense that it's caused all sorts
of misconceptions, causing people to be afraid where they shouldn't
be afraid. You know, some of the shows focus on
everything they find as a demon or something evil, and
even the intro to the show is about that says

(39:56):
there's evil here that causes problems for the public, and
we sometimes have to deal with that. On the flip side,
the shows have brought a lot of people out of
the woodwork expressing their interest in the subject, some of
whom are actually trying to figure out the science behind it.

(40:16):
That includes people come to the Ryan Research Center in
our education center to take courses or go to take
other courses from some of my other colleagues. So we
have we do have a positive from what has happened,
but there's an awful lot of ghost unting groups running
around out there that make all sorts of claims and
they really don't know anything other than what they've seen
on television.

Speaker 5 (40:37):
I've seen plenty of those on YouTube.

Speaker 6 (40:40):
Yeah, yeah, that's the problem.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
Yeah yeah.

Speaker 6 (40:44):
And you can also you know, watching those shows on YouTube,
you can tell which is their favorite ghost hunting group
and TV show because they're doing pretty much exactly what
they see on those shows.

Speaker 5 (40:53):
What's your personal theory on what ghosts actually are?

Speaker 6 (40:57):
Well, personally, I when we're talking about somebody, you know,
the true ghosts or an apple what we call on apparition,
it is consciousness of a person who has passed away,
has died, Their body has died, and the consciousness is
still somewhat intact. It is capable of perceiving the world
through esp because that's the only way they could, and

(41:20):
capable of interacting with us to some extent. The ghosts
we talk about and the ones we investigate are not
people who have moved on to the other side. That's
a whole different range of phenomena that or experience that
we work with mediums to communicate with. But they're still
here in the physical world. They're not coming from the dimension.
You know, there's a lot of speculation of all this,

(41:41):
but whatever. The question here, honestly is that question, what
is consciousness? And it's been called the hard question of
science because it's much more than the brain. There's so
much evidence that even those as who are alive, consciousness
is not just in our brain. In fact, we already
know that it's not just that even thinking or our

(42:05):
mental processes also are the heart and the gut, because
there are neurons in the heart and the gut, so
it's not all stuck in the brain. So there's a
lot more to it. And whatever consciousness is made out of,
I have, you know, read a lot of speculation and
science fiction about that. Nobody has a really has a

(42:26):
way to actually check it. We'd have to have a
ghost show up in a lab with the right equipment
to see what they're made out of, and so far
we haven't been able to get any of them to
cooperate that way.

Speaker 5 (42:35):
Yeah, I don't think they'd volunteer for that.

Speaker 6 (42:38):
Well, you know, how do you hold them to a schedule?

Speaker 5 (42:41):
Exactly? A lot of these what do you and share speculation?
That's all we can do. But what do you think
would lead a consciousness to want to stay behind? You
think just watch over their family, or to right or wrong?
If they were like a murder victim. You think those
are possibilities, I mean, I guess.

Speaker 6 (43:03):
Yeah, definitely. You know, there's a whole list of possibilities.
And the fact is that, and this is true, ghosts
are people too, or they were people. They were living people,
so they haven't really changed their personalities. And the when
we have worked with psychics or mediums who can communicate
with the apparition as well as witnesses, you know a

(43:24):
lot of the witnesses in our cases are having communication
as well. What we get is a range of the
whys why they stuck around, and it runs from on occasion.
And I know folks like Hans Houlter used to talk
about this and others that the ghosts are denying. The
people are denying that they're dead, and there is something
to that. There are some of those cases where they
deny that, but they're in denial. Basically, it's not that

(43:48):
they should figure it out because nobody most people can't
see them. Then there are the people who are very possessive.
They just don't want to let want to let go
of their material possessions, like their homes. Maybe they built
the house and they feel that they have to be there.
A lot of times as they're watching over their families
and you know, we hear about unfinished business. That's kind

(44:09):
of the classic ghost story. A lot of times the
unfinished business is they want to make sure their family's okay.
But then there are situations where the apparition has said,
I didn't see the light, I didn't know where to go,
you know, from like the movie Poltergeist, don't go into
the light. And there really isn't good evidence that there
is a light that just shows up for people. So

(44:31):
that's more of a pop culture thing. So the psychics
who work with them will explain to them how to
just let go of the world. There are those who
are kind of attached to their loved ones in other ways.
There are people the one case I mentioned earlier of
the woman communicating with the young boy, she said that

(44:52):
she was not religious growing up. When she died. Before
she died, and she didn't even die in the house,
she died in the hospital, she had a little bit
of a life review and she realized that she was
a bit of a partier. I mean they had a
lot of they were pretty well off her family, and
they had a lot of parties. Wasn't religious, didn't know
if there was a have in her hell, So she
didn't want to take a chance. She just wanted to

(45:13):
go home. And when she closed her eyes, she said,
according to the boy, the next thing she knew, she
was in the living room of her house. So that
we have a range of reasons, and in other cultures
we likely have significantly other reasons too. And the murder
victim who wants justice, that's happened, that's in the record
in a few places, and there are other reasons. I

(45:35):
have to always say that it's the range of human
experience and desires and fears that are there. But it's
not that everybody can stick around. We're pretty sure there's
some environmental conditions that would allow that to happen.

Speaker 5 (45:50):
You think quantum physics and other unknown aspects of reality
possibly play a role in paranormal phenomenon more than likely.

Speaker 6 (45:59):
Yeah, every level of reality probably has some play here.
In fact, one of the when I was talking about
what ghosts are made of, one science fiction comic book
writer actually suggested, and it's really interesting to think of
it this way, that consciousness is a quantum particle field,
and when your brain dies, the field which was generated

(46:22):
by the brain just continues on and that's a different
way of looking at things. But you know that falls
into the realm of possibilities as well. Information, by according
to some physicists, is the smallest thing that you could
possibly get through you get below the quantum level, everything's information.
And if that really is the case, consciousness is information.

(46:43):
So maybe that's what's going on there too, But we
don't know because we don't again, don't know what to
look for at this point.

Speaker 5 (46:49):
I've got some rapid fire questions for you.

Speaker 6 (46:52):
Okay, I'll try to be quick.

Speaker 5 (46:54):
Most haunted place you've ever been.

Speaker 6 (46:57):
The USS Hornet Aircraft Carrier Museum here in the bay.

Speaker 5 (46:59):
A one piece of equipment you always trust.

Speaker 6 (47:04):
A psychic or medium.

Speaker 5 (47:06):
What piece of equipment do you not trust?

Speaker 6 (47:09):
I don't even have one, but I'd say the SLS cameras,
the ones that have little stick figures on.

Speaker 5 (47:14):
Oh yeah, I've got an app on my phone for that.

Speaker 2 (47:16):
It's funny, I have an as for that.

Speaker 5 (47:18):
Yeah, you're a skeptic, are a believer.

Speaker 2 (47:24):
All right?

Speaker 6 (47:24):
So I call myself a situational skeptic, using the word
skeptic in the truest sense of the word. Doubt, not disbelief.
I do believe in apparitions and hauntings and poldergeis and
esp and psychokinesis, all the phenomena, but in an individual case,
it depends looking for normal explanations first. Then see what's left.

Speaker 5 (47:47):
What's one myth about ghost you wish would disappear?

Speaker 6 (47:50):
That ghosts need energy to manifest, whether it's heat or
something else. Because they don't, there's no manifesting.

Speaker 5 (47:59):
Yeah, and so many things always show that the temperature
drops when they are nearby, yes.

Speaker 6 (48:05):
I question, yeah, well yeah, And the fact is that
people feel a temperature drop, but if you try to
measure it, there is no temperature drop.

Speaker 5 (48:11):
For the listeners that are here tonight. What advice would
you give someone that thinks their home is holid?

Speaker 6 (48:20):
First start taking notes about what has happened and when
it happened. But next time you have an experience that
you think is related, here out loud, ask who's there,
what do you need? What can I do for you?
And see if you even get a response, which I

(48:40):
know is going to freak people out if they did
get a response, But if it's a haunting or residual haunting,
it's going to repeat. There's no communication, it's just a recording.
If it's an actual conscious apparition, you may actually get
a response or at least a reaction, so then you
can know what to do next. You can start asking questions.

Speaker 5 (49:00):
How can a listener responsibly explore the phenomenon or paranormal
phenomenon without putting themselves at risk?

Speaker 6 (49:09):
Well, actually, you know, first of all, learn to actually
interview people, because you're going to need to talk to
people who have experienced this in order to explore any
of it without a ghost story, without the testimony witnesses.
I know that the TV shows love to say that

(49:29):
just anecdotal evidence, but the fact is you wouldn't be
investigating a place unless somebody had an experience. So learn
to talk to people about this. And the other part
of this is to always think about the location and
it's whether there's any issues with the structure and for safety,

(49:54):
and always consider that the paranormals not going to hurt you,
might surprise you, but the living people you have to
always be wary of.

Speaker 5 (50:04):
I'd recommend don't go to Amazon and start buying a
bunch of electromedic magnetic field devices or AVP devices. That's
a waste of money.

Speaker 6 (50:14):
Yeah, I mean there's there's Honestly, unless you learn the
reasons why you might use those and how to use them,
and most ghost hunters don't even read the instruction manuals,
then you're just throwing money at You might as well
get a toy tricord, a star Trek tri Quarder.

Speaker 5 (50:30):
It'd probably be more effective too.

Speaker 6 (50:32):
Yeah. Yeah, I actually have a tri quarter that has
an E MF sensor as well as temperature and other
things that just came out last year.

Speaker 5 (50:39):
So are there any projects or research you're currently involved.

Speaker 6 (50:42):
With, well, besides teaching, which taking a lot of time.
I'm involved in a new journal, peer review journal. It's
going to be coming out called Parawise p A R
A w Yze. It's coming out from Paranormal Daily News
dot com and I have a big art major article
in there I did with a number of my colleagues

(51:04):
on a case that we had, and I'm involved in
other aspects of what Paranormal Dealily News is doing there.
I'm kind of fixing up my Mind of a Matter
book which is out of print right now for republication
by PDN Books, same group as doing that, and I'm
working on a fortieth anniversary edition of kind of updating

(51:27):
a little bit my esp Huntings and Poldergeist because it's
the fortieth year at this point, and then I'll be
working on another couple of books. But also I am
in the planning stage with others on the executive board
of the Forever Family Foundation of a conference we're having
on the Afterlife and Beautiful Downtown Burbank in October at

(51:48):
the Hotel Burbank, And there'll be more information on coming
out in a couple of months once we have the
schedule set and the speakers and all that. But that's
going to be a big thing for us as well.

Speaker 5 (52:00):
Are there any shows that you were involved with that
you would recommend for listeners, like, say, on the Guy
A Network are similar.

Speaker 6 (52:08):
I've not really done much on The Guy A Network.
I'd say some of the shows, some of the episodes
The Unexplained are decent. They've done a pretty good job.
That production company, Prometheus does a pretty good job on things.
Surviving Death, which is on Netflix, is based on the
book Surviving Death by Leslie Keene, and it's a fairly

(52:29):
good show. I mean, they still had some tweaks to
it that they that some of us disagreed with, But
for the most part the show is quite good. I say,
especially a couple of the shows, one on near death experience,
the episode on that, the episode on reincarnation cases children
remembering previous lives, those are exceptional. And even the episode
I worked on hauntings and such was was a decent,

(52:52):
decent episode for that. So those are those are some
good things to play with. Take a look at. There
are some older shows that are out there, older documentaries
and if you want to do something fun, there was
a group who did a somewhat humorous documentary called Ghost Youmentory,
which is on Amazon Prime, and I think it's you

(53:14):
can stream it for free or it's a cheap rental,
but I'm in that quite a bit. That was a
fun one to do.

Speaker 5 (53:20):
You have websites where people can go to follow your
work and learn more.

Speaker 6 (53:24):
Absolutely my website is lloydurback dot com. Just remember to
spell Lloyd with one L and there you will find
an FAQ on all of this phenomena really extensive one.
There is a resources guide which details the credible organizations
you can find online and connect with get information from,
as well as very credible people to follow on YouTube

(53:47):
and in a couple of other areas. I have a
lot of other information as well as my books are
all mentioned on my website there. But that's a way
to connect to the Rhine Center and I highly recommend
the courses that we teach at the Rhine Center are
next set of courses starts in May, and that's just
Ryan edu so or r h I N E E
d U dot org. Or you can just go to

(54:09):
rhyne dot org and look at the education page. We
haven't launched the new courses yet. Those will be up
and running for registration by April.

Speaker 5 (54:17):
First. Are your books available on your side or could
they go took like Amazon and also.

Speaker 6 (54:22):
Order they're available from Amazon. The only book I currently
have and it's not really sold on my site per se,
but people can reach me through my site if they
really want a copy, is the I still have copies
of Mind or Matter that I'm revising, so I have
quite a number of those copies left, but they can
always get those from me, and people can always email
me through their website and ask if that you know,

(54:44):
to buy a book directly for me if they wanted
an autograph or.

Speaker 5 (54:46):
Something I'll have to get one and should it your
way so I can get one signed, that'd be fantastic.
Sure A Lloyd diff has been an honor to have
you here tonight, and I think you're very informative and
you lay it out on the line, and I appreciate
you for being so forthcoming.

Speaker 6 (55:06):
Thank you, Thank you, Carl.

Speaker 5 (55:07):
Well, I will let you get on with your evening
and I'm going to go into my first break and
then I have another guest after that. But you have
a great night, sir, all right, take care that night.

Speaker 7 (56:03):
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Speaker 5 (01:00:04):
In the night Welcome Back to Midnight Frequency Radio. My
second guest this evening is photo Luke Hawaii. Luke was
born and raised in Honolulu, Hawaii, where he's lived most

(01:00:26):
of his life. Luke is a husband and father with
a background in childcare, retail, professional photography, and videography. Today,
Luke is a full time content creator on YouTube, documenting
life in Hawaii through walks, local events, and every day
out and experiences. Luke isn't religious, but he's open minded
and believes there may be more to this world than

(01:00:49):
we fully understand. While Luke doesn't actively study or practice
these things, he's open to the possibility of the supernatural,
including ghost, astro projection, lucid, dream killing, energy, alternative dimensions,
extraterrestrial life, and other unexplained phenomenon. Luke, Welcome to mid
Night Frequency Radio.

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
Hey Carl, great, thanks for having me.

Speaker 5 (01:01:14):
Before I get into your streaming and your shows and everything,
can you give us some background into paranormal activity on
the islands.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
There's so many and there's so many stories or incidences,
and I mean, I guess I can only attest to
mainly the ones that I kind of know about, Like
there's a big one is the night march is right,
and which are supposed to be soldiers that had been

(01:01:47):
killed in battle, and that march across the Coola mountains
and you can see them at night with the torches
and if you run into them, you're supposed to like
get out of the way. And I heard throw off
your clothes in bow. So there's there's so many different
things going on here, you know, in Hawaii. But I'm sorry,

(01:02:09):
I'm not sure if I answered you correctly.

Speaker 5 (01:02:12):
Oh yeah. Back in the fifties, there was a story
about a woman who goes into her restroom, looks in
the mirror and sees something. Can you give us a
little more information on that one?

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
Ah, yeah, that's that's one of my favorite stories because
it didn't it happened to a family member of mine,
my sister, and she was really young, she was only
like five years old, and we were at the Wildlight
drive in theater when we used to have drive in
theaters with the cars right, and I believe there was
a big graveyard area back there, but there was a

(01:02:47):
movie theater also there, so our family used to go
there once in a while. And one of the times
we went there and my sister had gone to the
restroom during the movie, and she came back and she
just told this story that she said she saw this
lady with no face, and it just I just got

(01:03:09):
chicken skin, you know, like I just got super creeped
out and the hair popped up on the back of
my neck and I was just like what And I
was I'm only two years older than her, So she
was maybe like five or six and I'm only like seven.
And nobody told her this story. So and you know,
we found out later that about this, that that is

(01:03:32):
a thing. So it was just really weird that she,
you know, brought this to our attention.

Speaker 5 (01:03:38):
I noticed a lot of the stories from Hawaii kinda
are reflected in the culture that lives there. A lot
of the stories are similar to Philippine Japanese oriented or originated.
Like I said, the night Rochers are a little different.
That's strictly Hawaiian based, and that probably stems from the

(01:04:01):
battle toward probably Lookout, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:03):
Between Yeah, that one battle.

Speaker 5 (01:04:06):
Yeah, yeah, one thing that's mentioned a lot in Hawaiian
that's Minnahuni's what's the story with those?

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
Oh yeah, okay, there's supposed to be these divine creatures that.
I guess I don't know the full story about it,
but my understanding of them was that at night they
would come out and they would build things, so you'd
see like these walls or little structures. And I don't

(01:04:38):
know a whole lot about them, but that that was
my understanding of them. Any hunias, And we use them
nowadays for anything referring to something being mishapped, you know,
like something screwing up, almost like how you would refer
to gremlin's. But that's not what they are like forgive me,
you know, like the Hawaiians would not like you, even gremlins. Yeah,

(01:05:01):
but I mean, I'm just saying that the way that
we use them now is so loose in that way
that when there's a misshappen. And that's kind of what
they were, you know. I think before they would come out,
you know, when nobody could see them and do stuff,
and then and then they would disappear again, and then
you would see something like what is this?

Speaker 5 (01:05:20):
Some of the stories were similar to the the elves
that help the shoemaker. They would come out at night
and repair shoes and then when he like up the
next morning, all these shoes that people had brought in
for him to repair, were repaired, and the uh, the
little elves came out and did it there in the night.
So man and honies aren't necessarily bad in that way.

(01:05:44):
They kind of help in some aspects.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. I've never heard a story
whether many hunis did something negative or bad or anything.
They were right, like you said, helpful.

Speaker 5 (01:05:58):
You've got some honey locations on the island, Like I
believe I'll butcher this Macoola cave.

Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
Yeah, my cool cave, which is that's a popular one.

Speaker 5 (01:06:09):
Is a cave supposed to be haunted or inhabited by
spirits or.

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
Yeah, there's a legend surrounding it. Then I actually visited
that cave without knowing much about it, me and my
wife because we, you know, do YouTube videos, and so
we decided, oh, let's go inside and go and film it.
And but while we were in there filming, you know,
we walked around and I saw some interesting things that

(01:06:39):
kind of creeped me out a little bit, gave me
some chicken skin and made me question stuff a little bit.
But it's one hundred it's about geologists said that it's
about one hundred and fifty thousand years old and there
is oh, go ahead.

Speaker 5 (01:06:59):
Is it a volcanic form cave or like a lava duct.

Speaker 2 (01:07:04):
Like the lava tube. Yeah, that's what I think I saw.
It was kind of created because of volcanic activity, some
kind of lava tube thing. So there is parts of
that cave that you can go into, and then there's
parts where you'd have to crawl back into. And that's

(01:07:25):
that's part of the creepy part of the cave because
you don't know what's in the back there. But I
hear that that part of the cave can connect into
the water underneath ground, So like that would make sense
with the lava tube.

Speaker 5 (01:07:40):
It's related to be involved with the butcher. This pronunciation
too kind of Aki shark man figure.

Speaker 2 (01:07:49):
Yeah, the kind of Aki was supposed to be a
like a demigod, the shark man, half human, half shark.
And the story that I heard is he would lure
people into the cave and if you were, you know,

(01:08:09):
followed him in there, you never made it out there.
And the story goes that he would devour you know,
his victims. But there's even creepy stories about it now
And I didn't know about all this when we first
went in there, so I felt bad that I took
my wife in there, you know, But now after being

(01:08:32):
in there and filming in there, and you can actually
see a video that I took in there called maccool
Cave or Kanne on a Cave, and it's pretty creepy
now that I because I remember going to the back
of the cave on one side and I actually fell,
and somebody had asked me, oh, did you feel like

(01:08:55):
something pushed you or something? And I'm not sure exactly know,
but I know I did fall and I didn't feel
like it was I wasn't on something slippy, so it
was really weird. I was fine though, I was okay.
Luckily there was no jagged rocks for me to get
hurt on. But as I continued to check out the

(01:09:15):
cave more, see, I had no fear because I did
not read into the cave history and I went into
the back and there was this little opening where across
space in the back there where there's rocks underneath. It
kind of filled it up a little bit, but you
could still crawl underneath there, and I shine my light
back there. You can't really see it in the videos

(01:09:36):
so much, but I swear when I was looking in there,
I saw movement back there, so it was like really creepy.
And then you hear the story about this shark man
demigod and who lured people in there to devour them,
You're like, oh my gosh, what so yeah, it's yeah,
that was a pretty interesting adventure.

Speaker 5 (01:09:59):
That kind of sounds like a shark creature that the
character Maui was on on the movie. It's kind of funny.
He would shape, he would turn into a shark head
with human legs and stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:10:12):
Oh right, right, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember that.

Speaker 5 (01:10:18):
There's a story and I've seen it on YouTube up
toward Polly Lookout from the Honolulu Police Department that a
rookie officer went up there. They have to go up
there at night and chain the gate clothes so people
won't be up there doing things they shouldn't be doing.

(01:10:40):
But as she was coming back down the hills, she
saw a lady walking on the side of the road,
and you know, she pulled the car over and she
started to ask her, you know, auntie, what are you
doing up here? And she was gone. When she got
her window, rode down and she looked in every mirror

(01:11:01):
and this apparition was in the backseat with her. Are
you familiar with that story?

Speaker 2 (01:11:07):
Yeah? I love that story, and I've heard different, you know,
episodes of that story. But I know that only because
Allen was on YouTube too. But verbally, I've heard different
incidences that have happened, and my knowledge of it is basically,
that is supposed to be Pelee and if you see

(01:11:27):
this lady in a white dress, you're supposed, you know,
on the PULLI and I've heard also maybe on on
the Big Island on Saddle Road, if you see her,
you're supposed to stop and ask her if she needs help,
and you know, if you have if she does, you know,
accept your help and you have anything you should give her.

(01:11:48):
It's like almost like making an offering to her. And
then if you do not stop and you just pass
by her, legend says your car will just stop working. Yeah,
it'll just stall. And that's happened. I've heard it's happened,
and I've I've never had that happen to me. I've

(01:12:08):
never seen her, That's why, but you know, I would
make sure Basically if I saw a woman up there anyways,
I like ask her if she needed help because why
she up there in the first place.

Speaker 5 (01:12:24):
But yeah, don't go up to Polly Lookout at night.

Speaker 2 (01:12:28):
Definitely not No, it's not a good idea at all.

Speaker 5 (01:12:31):
Hawaii. Ask another story about the lim O lady.

Speaker 2 (01:12:35):
Oh yeah, yeah, the Limo lady just like Seaweed lady basically,
And sorry about that. And then so there's there's this
story and I don't know, Okay, well first I'll tell it.
So there's a story about this lady who was at

(01:12:57):
the beach with your child and I don't know if
she wasn't paying attention constantly with the child, but the
child was swimming and then you know, kind of got
a little too deep in the water, and then the
child was asking for help, you know, she could come
back in, and the mom tried to go and help
the child, but the child kind of disappeared on her

(01:13:17):
and she was just frantically looking for her child, and
she also succumbed to the ocean, so they both vanished
and were never found. But so that's very sad. But
the real creepy part about it is legend has it
that if you see or if you first you hear

(01:13:39):
a woman at night at the beach, and I don't
even know if there was a specific beach, but if
you hear I feel like it was out in car
Ava somewhere somewhere around there. If you hear a woman
calling out to their child in an eerie voice and
then you see her like walking in the shallow water

(01:14:04):
or on the beach, don't approach her, don't go near her, leave,
you know, because I think she would claim you or
your child, especially your child, as her child. You know
that she lost so that that always creeped me out
at night because we used to go fishing sometimes at night,

(01:14:26):
and you know, it's like, oh, careful, you know. But yeah,
I don't know if it was. I heard that when
we were young and a camp so I don't know
if the campers were trying to tell you, hey, don't
go play by the beach at night, you know, on
your own.

Speaker 5 (01:14:42):
I grew up, you know, over there for five and
a half years. My dad was in the military and
did two tours at Scholfield Barracks. But there was a
story in Wayhi Wah about a green lady. And I
don't know all the details of that, and I'm not
sure you do either, But you have any info on.

Speaker 2 (01:15:01):
You know, I heard I heard about the Green Lady also,
and I don't I don't recall too much about it.
I almost wanted to. I don't know if I was
confusing her with the Limu Lady or not. But yeah,
I'm sorry, I'm not really I don't remember. I remember
hearing about it, I just don't remember what it was about.

Speaker 5 (01:15:23):
Yeah, well, I gets similar to the Limo Lady. Uh that.
You know, there's some cliff areas over around why He Wall,
and I think a child of hers or something fell
down into the cliff area. Here's see roams around out
there at night trying to locate her offspring, right right.

(01:15:44):
But it's all spooky stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:15:46):
Totally spooky, like you know, just just hearing it from
somebody else, you're like, oh wow, I have to be careful,
you know, or at least you know, like know that
the possibility to be cautious about that.

Speaker 5 (01:15:59):
Hawaii definitely has that's folklore and stories just like we
do here in different locations in the States. People are
interested in that. I recommend going to YouTube and doing
a search on some of it. But one of the
main reasons I wanted to have you on tonight is uh,
for those that can't just pack up and take a
trip to Oahu and some of the other islands. You

(01:16:21):
do a lot of video footage of events and things
on the island and you kind of bring the island
to us, and would you be interested in giving the
folks listeners your YouTube address and.

Speaker 2 (01:16:34):
Oh yeah, yeah, sure. You can actually go to www
dot photo Luke Hawaii dot com. That's actual website that
will work, but you got to put the www at
the beginning. Or you can go to www dot YouTube
dot com forward slash photo Luke Hawaii all on word

(01:16:59):
that'll take you to my YouTube channel where I do
a lot of virtual walks in Hawaii. A lot of
them are in Waikiki, and so we came into the
tourists mainly to you know, who wants to see what's
going on, you know, at the moment in Hawaii or
in Waikiki. But we try to show some other stuff,
like cultural things, So we do like hula performances, We

(01:17:24):
do music concerts if I'm able to film that and
share that, So you know, we try to do a
variety of things. But I also enjoy you know, capturing
those things, so it's not just me sharing it with people.
But so I just hope that other people enjoy it too.

Speaker 5 (01:17:41):
I know, if someone is planning on visiting the islands,
you have a lot of videos and places like the
Polynesian Culture Center, Sea Life Park and other locations, they
can kind of get an idea of where they might
like to go when they do get there.

Speaker 2 (01:17:56):
Oh yeah, yeah, And I do try to put links
up to about the places that we can't try to feature.
I don't know always remember too, but I do have
a lot of videos that are that show places of interest,
more family oriented places because you know, I don't I
don't do so much of the shark diving thing or

(01:18:18):
zip lines stuff or sky diving, but you know, if
if it's stuff that you can take your kids on,
or a hike, or Sea Life Park, the Honolu Zoo,
Botanical garden walks and yeah, mostly it's those kind of
things and Pouling Culture Center, like you just said, we
just went there again. Sorry about the noises like raining outside.

(01:18:40):
We've got that storm here that conol.

Speaker 5 (01:18:42):
Yeah, it's been bad the past couple of weeks for
y'all in that and they've had flooding and in the
wild area. I know, they've been warning people that the
dam over there could could possibly break.

Speaker 2 (01:18:54):
So yeah, yeah, back to your hometown over there, and
well that's right. Yeah, yeah, the place is super flooded
right now. So you know, I am sure when you
look at the images you know that you've seen, you
you're kind of like, oh my gosh, you know I
used to live there. That's kind of crazy.

Speaker 5 (01:19:14):
Yeah, they even have fresh water fishing over there, But
I wouldn't recommendny recommend to anyone that if you fish
in the Wahi Wall Reservoir, don't eat the fish. The
history of plantations and stuff over there in factories in
Wya days gone by, the water is contaminated with mercury

(01:19:35):
and other things that they really didn't know back then
they shouldn't be dumping that into a fresh water area,
but they did.

Speaker 2 (01:19:43):
So yeah, that's that's good advice. I mean, the same
thing as all the Way Canal. But yeah, you know,
until you actually kind of told me about that, I
didn't even realize how polluted the water might have been
over there.

Speaker 5 (01:19:57):
Yeah. Dad used to like the fish out of there,
and they would catch stuff like pilapia and peacock bass
and stuff. But he would always put him back. He
never would never would bring him home to eat it,
which is a good idea.

Speaker 2 (01:20:10):
So yeah, yeah, yeah, catch and release, there's nothing wrong
with that. You still have good a good time, and
the fish can still survive in the mercury polluted best
of sidewater.

Speaker 3 (01:20:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:20:21):
All the stuff they did that they didn't know they
were supposed to do back then, it is affecting us still,
it's unfortunately.

Speaker 2 (01:20:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's cool that they have that
as an option at least, you know, like you said,
I didn't even know we had some of those types
of fish here for fresh water fishing. So it's amazing
that they still have that, considering you knew it from
back then and they still have it now.

Speaker 5 (01:20:46):
Yeah, it's pretty over there, of course. Like I say,
why why, it was used to be a big industrial
area for sugarcane and pineapple growing. They don't grow the
pineapples as much as they used to, and they've cut
out the sugar cane on the Oahu because of the pollution.
They're in harvest season. They always burned it, and I

(01:21:07):
remember you go outside when they were burning the fields
and you'd have a black snow falling from all the
ash coming off the fields and that wasn't good for
me because I had severe asthma back then, of course,
And of course the pineapple factories they'd burned the leftovers

(01:21:28):
from the pineapples when they you know, cut them and
clean them and stuff for market. And it was the
most sickly sweet smell I have ever smelled.

Speaker 2 (01:21:37):
I remember, it didn't smell kind of like all the
sugarcane smell is because that one smells really bad too.

Speaker 5 (01:21:44):
I mean, yeah, they all stink. We'll put it down.

Speaker 2 (01:21:47):
Well, I personally, I never experienced that stuff. Uh, you know,
I did experience some of the sugarcane burning thing, but yeah,
you know more about that stuff from back in the day.
But yeah, I'm kind of sad though that they don't

(01:22:07):
have that kind of crop here anymore. But I mean,
I know they still have the pineapples, but I do remember,
you know, when I was younger, about the sugar cane,
so it's kind of sad that they don't have that.

Speaker 5 (01:22:21):
But yeah, I think the pineapple business over there, they
grow mostly for island to itself. The US gets most
of it's pineapple now out of South America and some other.

Speaker 2 (01:22:34):
Places Mexico too, I think, or something young in Mexico.

Speaker 5 (01:22:38):
Yeah, down south of US. Plus you get a lot
of stuff from down there, avocados and different different crops
like that. But the pineapples coming out of down there
tasted nothing like what you used to be able to
get into Hawaii. It was they were very sweet and

(01:22:59):
really great to eat. And the only other place that
I have found that the pineapple are just as sweet
as stuff is in the Philippines.

Speaker 2 (01:23:09):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah right.

Speaker 5 (01:23:11):
And they grow a lot over there in the book
on area of minn and now and some other areas.

Speaker 2 (01:23:19):
I haven't been to the Philippines, but I heard they've
had they have a lot of greate fruit there, so
I can imagine what you're talking about.

Speaker 3 (01:23:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:23:27):
Yeah, they grow coffee over there, and bananas of course.
M And they have the apple bananas similar to the
what you can get in Hawaii.

Speaker 2 (01:23:39):
Oh cool, I didn't know that.

Speaker 5 (01:23:41):
Huh yeah. And then they grow the larger regular US
style bananas.

Speaker 3 (01:23:46):
Mmm.

Speaker 5 (01:23:47):
They take the smaller bananas and they boil them and
then they it's called a banana queue mm. And it's
it's uh caramelized. Like I said, they're boiled to they
caramelize and they're really sweet. They have a really great
taste to them.

Speaker 2 (01:24:05):
Oh is that you didn't like as a dessert or yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:24:08):
Yeah, oh cool.

Speaker 2 (01:24:09):
We have such a big Filipino culture here. But I
don't I feel bad. I don't know, you know enough,
I have some Filipino friends. But it's so funny you
know so much more about it. So I always like
to hear stuff from you.

Speaker 5 (01:24:23):
It's funny, you know, when you grow up somewhere, you
don't get as much information if you were just there
for a number of years and end up leaving, and
you end up doing more research later in life. You
know about stuff that you were exposed to there. And
of course gamers out there. Luke and I are been
known to play Fastmophobia, yeah, and Fortnite and Sons of

(01:24:47):
the Forest, So you never know, maybe on one of
his YouTube channels you might catch us playing live games
on there. You never know, never know. Yeah, but little
Kids sets the bottom of the hour, and I'm sure
you have other things to take care of there. But
I really appreciate you coming out of the show and
giving us some backstories on some of the Hawaiian folklore.

(01:25:10):
Never know you come out with some really cool video.
I may announce it here so people can go and
take a look on your YouTube page.

Speaker 2 (01:25:17):
Okay, cool, Thanks Carl, thanks for having me. I really
appreciate it.

Speaker 5 (01:25:20):
Thank you, Luke, and I'll let you get back to
what you were doing and I'm gonna close out things
here on my all.

Speaker 2 (01:25:29):
Right, take care, alloa, everybody, YouTube night.

Speaker 7 (01:26:15):
This is dark Matter News. I'm Joshua Stark. NASA is
overhauling its Artemis Moon program, abandoning the original plan for
the Artemis three mission to carry astronauts directly to the
lunar surface. Instead, the mission will now be used to
test critical systems in space before any attempt at landing.

(01:26:36):
Under the revised strategy, Artemis three will focus on validating
technologies needed for future Moon missions. Astronauts will practice docking
procedures with lunar landing vehicles and evaluate new spacesuits designed
for use on the lunar surface. The mission will also

(01:26:58):
test how different space care work together in orbit, an
essential step before attempting a complex lunar landing. The change
comes after concerns that the previous plan attempted too many
first time operations in a single mission. This is dark
Matter News.

Speaker 4 (01:27:19):
Where can the skills you learned with HAM radio take you?
Amateur radio, often called HAM radio, is the place where
today's engineers got their start. Ham radio is more popular
than ever before, with hands on training in electronics, engineering
and digital communications. Modern hams interface computers and radios in
entirely new ways. Ham radio in the twenty first century
can take you around the world or into a whole

(01:27:41):
new career. Learn more go to ARRL dot org join US.

Speaker 7 (01:27:48):
Scientists have discovered why some brain cells appear to be
naturally more resistant to the damage caused by Alzheimer's disease,
a finding that could open a new paths for treatment.
The research shows that certain neurons possess a built in
cleanup system that helps remove toxic taul proteins before they

(01:28:09):
can accumulate. In Alzheimer's disease, tau proteins normally clump together
inside brain cells, forming tangles that disrupt communication between neurons
and eventually lead to cell death. Researchers found that some
brain cells are better at clearing those harmful proteins, preventing

(01:28:30):
them from forming the damaging clusters associated with the disease.
The study also identified how its sail or stress can
trigger the creation of a dangerous fragment of towel that
may accelerate the build up of these toxic tangles. Understanding
why some neurons can defend themselves while others cannot may

(01:28:51):
help scientists design new therapies that strengthen the brain's natural
protective systems. By boosting the mechanisms that remove harmful proteins,
researchers believe it may be possible to slow or even
prevent the progression of Alzheimer's disease. Tell us what you think.

(01:29:12):
Go to darkmatternews dot com. We've done a sight redesigned.
We want to know what you think about it. Give
us a line Josh at moore geekmedia dot com or
info at darkmatternews dot com. Make sure you let us
know we really like it. We hope you do too.
Give us a line, let us know what you think.

(01:29:34):
That's it for DarkMatter News. Catch up with us on
the Midnight Frequency Facebook page from Memphis, Tennessee. I'm joshuas dark.

Speaker 8 (01:30:17):
Nobody Nobody on the Beach.

Speaker 5 (01:30:31):
Welcome back to Midnight Frequency Radio. Thanks everyone that tuned
in this evening. Next weekend March twenty eighth, at nine
pm Central, will be Robert Monroe. Robert is a author
and expert on alibody experiences. I look forward to this interview,
and I hope y'all will come back and give us
a listen. Then, until next time for Art Bell Joshua

(01:30:55):
start josh Cheers, Lady Marie. I'm Carl Richardson and this
has been midnight frequency radio.

Speaker 1 (01:32:06):
Cop The Boy in

Speaker 5 (01:34:02):
Wa

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