E11T4 Experiencias en Patagonia Argentina y Chilena

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome once again to this podcast ofArgentinian myths and legends. My name is
Lucir Stransh and today I bring youa new episode of this fourth season,
different from previous episodes in the sensethat our listener will not only share lived
experiences, personal experiences that have todo with paranormal issues, of course,

(00:22):
but will also share a lot oflegends that have to do with the Archipelago
of Chiloé Ashiile, in Chile inthe south of Chile, and they will
be legends that will not only bereplicated and originated in that territory, but
also extend to what is Patagonia Argentina. So we' re gonna be there

(00:42):
doing an exchange talk of different legendsand interpretations. These are the ways you
have to tell yourself that I'm more than sure you' re going
to enjoy it. If you wantto contact and follow the networks, you
can do so by the instagram ofmyths and legends, to Facebook, is,
the YouTube channel and all podcast platformsfind it with the name of Argentine

(01:03):
myths and legends. From now on, if you want to share your experience,
you can get in touch by anyof these means and, as I
always say or at least the clarificationis valid, since I am asked enough
about social networks. Experiences do nothave to be exclusively from Argentina. They
can be anywhere in the world andshare their experiences as well. Hey,

(01:30):
hey, Javier, how you doing, okay, all right, well,
Javier, tell me where you live, where you are now. I'
m in comfortable Avia River, you' re so cute how many years you
have so thirty- six, perfect. Well, yeah, and tell me

(01:51):
this that these stories you have happento you right now. It' s
something that' s happened to youa long time ago. Actually, what
I did was a compilation of eventsthat have happened to me all my life.
Let' s even say I orderedit chronologically dressed for more or less,
to have everything sorted, so Icould tell everything and tell it in

(02:13):
the best way. You saw howgreat great good so let' s start
from the beginning, Dale, givehim great this good. I don'
t aim here. I have tolook that since Chico, because well,
when we contact you, as Itell you to remember all the events that
I have lived and it comes tomind just like listening to some chapters of

(02:39):
your dream podcast and that well,like when you are a kid, it
is not clear if in reality theyare dreams or they are another kind of
event. Let' s say whenI was a kid, an hour came
to my mind that at that timeI lived with my grandmother, that is,

(03:00):
my grandmother raised me until I wasabout six years old. This year
and then, well, anyway,we kept living with my grandmother, no
more than that house where I livedwith my parents. I was stuck at
my grandmother' s house, atthe station game, my grandma. But,
well, I' m already inthe middle of it, as I

(03:20):
was the first- born, let' s say the first grandson everywhere,
so he was a bit of abad bred, let' s say.
Well at that time, well,I was sleeping there at my grandmother'
s house and at a time whenimages came to my head of a dream
where a figure appeared to me asI said, I don' t know

(03:46):
how you can explain, how itwould be a capable spectrum, how suddenly
it didn' t mean that Iwas in bed. My dream was that
I was in bed where he sleptand I appeared like a specter all of
a sudden like telling you in superfast speed, like he was coming fast

(04:13):
towards me and slowing down and therelike he was waking me up or things
like that you saw. Yeah,that was one of the events that came
to mind. That' s adream that well, there are images that
I know are coming to me now. The memory of clear istoria, and
that was a recurring dream I had. That was something like that once or

(04:34):
twice, that' s all.No. It wasn' t once or
twice, no more. No,no, it' s not recurring or
repeated, or many. One isas I tell you, I' m
collecting stacking saw in my memory moreor less events. Yes, of course,
as I was saying at first,I want to tell you what I

(04:58):
lived. No, yeah, Ihave a' cause anyway, I have
a lot of unknown stories that well, that yes later the same, if
you want to tell it a littlebit. But first I' m going
to focus on what I saw youlived good and then, well. That
was when I was little, whenI was very young, then what happened
to me the same way when Iwas a little bit older, we changed

(05:21):
our house, we went to livealready with my old man and to another
neighborhood here in the city and ina moment, in one night, I
left my house and in front ofthe house I went down a bird,
a rare bird, by the waythe truth, that a bird that I

(05:45):
had never, never seen, thateven after I looked for it, you
searched on the web that is,on the Internet to see what I could
do. It was a bird liketelling you that I later assimilated it to
that bird I don' t knowif it was that, because I didn
' t have it up close.It was like crossing the street, similar
to a small owl, but witha weird face. It was like I

(06:11):
later saw an image and I saidif this bird that at one point I
don' t know that you probablysaw it two, was a snake-
headed bird. Well, that birdlike that bird and we were trying to
scare him off and he wasn't leaving. The bird was jumping like
it kept looking, looking where wewere. I think on that day,

(06:35):
if we were already with a friendor I don' t know, I
don' t remember well, andthe bird, I mean, we scared
him off and jumped, we eventried to grab him. I think at
that time a jacket and he didn' t get caught, but it kind
of wasn' t wrong, hewas leaving, he wasn' t flying,

(06:56):
I mean, he wasn' tfreaking out, so I found it
pretty weird. He ended up disappearing. But, well, they' re
unexplainable things. Let' s justsay it happened to me. Yeah,
yeah, well, then several things, I mean, once it was like
a weird half- event streak ofexplaining in my house once a housing plan

(07:20):
house that will surely know everything closedthe perimeter with high walls. On a
summer afternoon a lizard appears, alizard is fine, yes, from here
in the area, but it seemsthrough the back door of the house and

(07:40):
it gets in the kitchen and startslooking everywhere and it gets scared and goes
that it is fine. It wasan area where I could walk artijas,
but at that time, I mean, it' s like how they got
into the artija. So big,let' s say closed. I mean,

(08:01):
it' s weird. That animal' s supposed to be in the
field. Let' s say yes, I really do. It' s
pretty weird and what that was allabout. They could have caught the bug.
He didn' t cover up theghosts He ran away. But,
well, they' re weird littleevents. Well, as I tell you,

(08:24):
I' m starting to remember andin the head of those things that
were clear to me and you're talking to your parents or some grown
- up, some acquaintance who wouldgive you some explanation or tell you like
that, this is normal or somethingor not really. Well, that time

(08:46):
the lizard, for example, wasmy old lady and everything in the house,
they were even surprised when they sawhim because he came in and looked
at me like that all over andhe went away, all surprised. You
saw, but well, it's things, like I tell you,
little event, that were left quitestrange and well, then, well it

(09:11):
' s about that age in thesame house, it' s going out
to the same place, the samestreet, because I used to always when
some guys always try to mean,it' s always on the street let
' s say with friends and andgood playing and that and in the middle

(09:33):
of the night, already at thattime, in front of my house,
it was still uncamped. This isall settled. But when I looked up,
for heaven, well I saw whatI could later say was an omnibte.
It was a very clear circle,that is to say, it was
seen in the distance, but itlooked clear, a circle with lights,

(10:00):
with lights this that revolved around,that is, they made a sphere,
they turned colored lights yes, andit made a movement, that is,
it remained static, but with therotating lights and then it made a quick
movement, for example, to SaraiLeft mine. Let' s say on

(10:22):
a journey he went back to thesame place and from there he got lost
on the horizon. And this wassomething that happened to you once alone or
happened to you several times, becausethat area where you live, you,
from where you are, is likeit seems to be one of the hot
spots watching UFOs, like the peoplewho are in that area very much did

(10:43):
see, that they have even comeout, that in the oil fields have
seen a lot omi yes, ithappens that here there are many areas you
saw and there is a part thatgood. Now there are already reserves of
the reserve red rocks. Yes,which was formerly good, formerly, not
currently the same. It was alwaysa fishing area, let' s say,

(11:05):
yes, yes, but well thereand you started talking to people have
always seen things, weird things.Let' s say clear, yes,
from omnis, says it stays there, goblins everything a little bit, where

(11:26):
they are well they are already,yes, of everything a little bit,
says ah So, well, that' s still hard for me to figure
out. I mean, but thetheme of the omnis, what happens is
that this was the clearest event.Let' s say sighting that I had,
that I said yes it' sa man, it' s not

(11:46):
a plane, not the post,it' s nothing. He' s
an omni, because he was veryclear, of course, until I'
d never seen him before. Andthe subject of movements saw yes, yes,
yes, no. You couldn't possibly explain to her that another
moment you saw something kind of weird, but in that case, in particular,
clear yard, that' s whathappened to me that I later,

(12:09):
well, after seeing that I triedto see if I saw something in the
sky, I tried to compare itor see if I assimilated it with an
OMMI, but I didn' t. I don' t think it went
the clearest after seeing it out thereby day, there I viñeando de rucas
coloradas and I saw one for meone could have been a plane, but
it was an advanced very fast,very fast and crossed, crossed us from

(12:35):
side to side and let' ssay fast and it was a fixed light.
You saw in full motion and thatcan' t confirm it you saw
clearly, but it was a lightthat was moving fast and I was and
we were all thinking. I wasjust coming with my father- in-
law and my wife and we keptthinking. Well, I just made a
comment that' s why I alwaystell you look at a man and look

(12:58):
at a name and well it's not that they don' t believe
much about it, but well whatthey kept thinking you saw clearly doubted it.
Yeah, it was doubting because itwas like it was to doubt it,
because a plane doesn' t moveso fast, that' s the
view. Let' s say yes, yes, yes, I understand why,

(13:20):
yes, they walk fast, butwell, the view is not so
fast. And it was good.That was the theme of the hom After,
well, as I tell you,I have a lot of stories that
I' ve been told, but, well, now I' m on
my side, we' ll bepassing by Chile. Well, that'
s what I told you. Well, tell me how you get there in

(13:43):
Chile, which is a matter ofvacation. You' ve been living in
time. Yeah, actually, lookat me since I got a sense of
it. Our family vacations always wentto Chile. Yeah, well, my
paternal and maternal grandparents are Chileans.My paternal grandparents are from Chiloé Island and

(14:11):
my maternal grandparents are from Protomon State, from the region. That' s
nice, spectacular, yeah, yeah, the truth is. Well, well,
there' s this one like Itell you, we always went on
trips, summers ended school, andthat' s where I was going alone.
That' s where he hit mealready in December because my grandfather used

(14:33):
to be there. I mean,they came very young to Patagonia and well,
my grandfather, for example, paternaldidn' t come back to Chile,
they just came back on vacation,but my maternal grandfather or they came
back every so often because they had, like, my great- grandmother was
there then they were always constantly traveling. Sure, sure and so, well,

(14:56):
I was just finishing school, becausefor me it was Chico' s.
It was always like the dreamy place, my grandfather' s field,
the dreamy place that was there,near Puerto Montt It was an indescribable place,

(15:18):
It was like one that gave thehouse like in a well surrounded by
Monte Monte Virgen, and I don' t know the nearest house that would
make a kilometer the route equal totwo kilometers, a kilometer, two kilometers

(15:39):
to a paradise. Of course,yes, there was a river of all
this wood, corral animals. Sogood. This is what I like.
Yeah, yeah, so good.That one to sort of locate you where
I' m going to tell thestory now. Turns out good. On

(16:00):
one of those trips, we hadto turn around. Let' s just
say we used to leave my fatherat that time. Well, it was
my dad passed away because of thecoronavirus a couple of years ago. He
had an FCN. It was alwaysthe FCIN you saw and we at that

(16:22):
time, when it was still allowedthis, we made a kind of bed
back in the dome of the truckand we traveled all together make the bed
of two silvers, we put thebags or all and we traveled everything in
family, I mean, we werelike five back you saw and advanced three
more put it in the place,so let' s say in band,

(16:47):
let' s say and and thereanother and col more you saw. The
thing is, well, we werealready turning around. And it turns out
that on that occasion my grandmother wasgoing to keep you with her mom,
this one wasn' t coming backhere anymore, so they stayed there and
in one of those my mom saysat that moment she was sad because she
was going to have to leave hermom that he wasn' t used to

(17:07):
it. So, okay. Iam not half sad comment and it turns
out that at that time he jumpsto my brother who would come to be.
We are four brothers. I'm the oldest. Then follows Alexander,
who has problems, I am qualified. Then José goes on and then

(17:33):
Franco, the youngest. Well,in this case of José, José well
was small. I don' tremember well. When I' d be
five years old, six years oldand he says good. Well, my
mom says I' m sad becauseI' m leaving my mom. He
says yes, I' m sadtoo. And why you' re sad.
Bole and say more because why I' m going to leave my friends

(17:56):
white and clear dwarfists and my momopens her eyes, she says no.
That' s where I whitened it. Yeah, snow white dwarfs. He
says what they played with me inthe river and he says how. Yeah,
he says they were playing with meand he says when I went to

(18:17):
the threesome, I was always thereand they were playing with me and they
were throwing the tail at the cows, they were throwing water at you and
you always said they were playing withme and they wanted to take me and
I was told to go with them, to go play somewhere else and he
says no. I didn' tlisten to him and he says I left
for the house and they were allsurprised there. You saw and yes,

(18:44):
of course, the first time Isaid it, it' s not that
he at some point commented on itbeing there that they could accompany him look.
He didn' t say it whenthey were on a trip, of
course, just when we were comingback like this, how tremendous. And
that sounds to your mom or yourdad like something that was told in the

(19:04):
area or they were surprised. Yeah, you saw that I, like you,
went out to count in private.Let' s say we had grandparents,
those are always from Chile, likethere was a cultural and mythology influence
and all that you saw yes andyes in that always you us out there

(19:30):
in meetings, in family meetings,like me, I was always interested in
this mythology and the paranormal, smallthing. You dressed as a little boy.
Even we were sleeping with my cousinsand of course, in the middle
of the night, what we likedwas to do that and tell you stories
each. You saw clear well,we started reading some stories. You saw

(19:55):
him and he was always there.This is what you saw as paranormal.
Obviously, one of the parents didn' t want to give you that information
or that handle, because, well, it' s kind of delicate.
Let' s say yes, butyes, the story of that was always

(20:21):
told, even in the characters,as the chilota mythology told you in full.
You see, then there was alwaysthat story and there are different similarities.
Then we were always aware, inreality that that could exist not we,
as well, we were always believersin God and as if so,

(20:48):
as is the good, is thebad. He was always there. So
yes, my daughter immediately realized thatthey were probably the leprechauns. You see,
yes and well, I' mtalking yes, he says there was
a story. So let' ssay the field, that yes, that

(21:11):
it was told, that the peoplewho took it away and came back out
of their mind or out there didn' t appear anymore then, like that
story was worrying. Let' ssay clearly they didn' t take it

(21:33):
as something tender as something anecdotal,but they worried clearly yes, yes,
yes, just as at the momentone capable that I don' t remember
well, but just as she ismy old lady, maybe that at the
time she laughed you saw, butit was good, that she was equally
concerned about the inside and then youwho went every year for that place.

(21:53):
Your brother, the one who seesthese snow white dwarfs. As he said
he had contact again, something likethat happened to him again or it was
that one time. I remember whatI remember the truth. I don'
t think anything else happened to him, but we concluded that this event had

(22:22):
a consequence, because when he arrivedhere in gold, strange things began to
happen to him. For example,he would wake up in the middle of
the night, sleepwalk and jump outof bed and throw himself on the floor,

(22:44):
his dick would fall. Yeah,that' s never happened to him
like I asked him what happened afterwards. And it was like he said that
he dreamed that he was a birdand that of course he wanted to fly.
And we, well, for us, since that time it was funny

(23:07):
because he fell the bed, thatis, jumped and fell into bed and
could fly it. Let' sjust say good. It started to happen
first, it started with that andthen it was more serious, more serious.
He would wake up in the middleof the night and start seeing things

(23:33):
out there. But yes, itwas terrible, it was kind of heartbreaking.
He started the screams. Like Isaw people, like I' d
say, I don' t knowpeople in the middle of the night,
this is what I' m talkingabout three four in the morning. He
would wake up and start screaming.There they are again, there they are
again. They' re gonna killhim, they' re gonna kill him.

(23:55):
And so, but imagine the worstversion they had. No and about
that age I don' t rememberwell, but about that age I one
between five years, that way it' s seven years. I don'
t remember him and he didn't just make him sleepy, but he
was awake and he saw that awake. Wake up. Yeah, yeah,

(24:17):
yeah, awake. There I wasno longer asleep, I was already awake,
I woke up scared, desperate,they are again going to killÑoño,
Ñoño of my brother who is introuble. We call him a boy
and they' re gonna kill hima little boy, they' re gonna
kill him a little boy, andthey' re gonna kill him with heartbreaking
screams. But bad ay desperate thistime and my mom what was right was

(24:45):
to bathe him they beat a bathin let' s say in the bathtub
and there was this one like Iwas trying to calm him down. Yeah,
but it' s like that andshe was trans and she was seeing
that people were going on behind ourbacks. No, no, no,

(25:06):
what' s already going on,yes, but wrong And he was the
only one in the house who sensedsomething. Yes, yes, as it
is, no, not the onlyone and the screams of storytellers but hand
and this is happening, it happensseveral times and you or your dad and

(25:30):
they decide to do something about itor at some point it stops happening just
like the story was there. Itactually happened to him several times and we,
well, at that time he wasalive. My great- grandmother,
she was chilota from Chile' syarn. It' s worth the clarification
because the term is being misused outthere. No. No, she'

(25:56):
s clear because she cleared it up, because that' s where it'
s said, that' s whereblack is called chilote. But actually chilote,
actually the native of Chiloé Island yes, yes, so, well,
my grandmothers were chilota and at thattime, she was doing some sort of
cleaning. He bathed it in Ruthand other grass. Let' s say

(26:26):
well, so, after a coldjob on the edge of the bed that
rel lifts up wakes up and ifI had to come out sleepwalks up and
that practice and I think with thatwas the solution. Well, well,
well, yeah, then, ina carnal it never happened to him again.

(26:47):
That' s perfect, the cleaningworked, so yes, yes,
yes, yes. I think so. I think so, but you saw
when I was a kid or whatthat image and a lot of details get
lost, let' s say no, no, yeah, but I imagine

(27:07):
seeing your brother' s scenes screaminglike this tremendous how tremendous, tremendous.
The worst image you can imagine isa claw, a little one with grippers
' grips, of course, adespair that will do something to your family.
So how ugly and now he what' s making big remembers those episodes

(27:30):
or not the truth. They nevertry, as I say, that'
s a delicate subject out there,but I never sat down with him to
tell him you remember this. Youremember that. But, well, he
' s having a conversation about this, about white- haired nanny, and
they' ve been joking around.Yeah, yeah, yeah, imagine me

(27:52):
good, sure, but no,like we' re not done with that.
Let' s say well, okay, well, and what' s
the next story that happens well,in that same place. Then it came
to me, let' s sayI' m the same. I went

(28:18):
on a vacation there and in themiddle of the night I was already,
I was sleeping or I was lyingdown and I woke up. Well,
as it must happen anywhere in theworld, in a country, in a
rural area, there are dogs anddogs are the ones announcing any proximity of

(28:38):
any person in the countryside or anyever- ploughing event. I' m
not telling you, because as thedogs looked up a mile away, visitors
coming to the house, relatives,coming from afar and the dogs were already

(29:00):
barking, then we already knew,we looked up and we thought someone was
coming clear, obvious, yes,yes, of course. This time I
was sleeping, waking up in themiddle of the night and looking at the
dark window. Imagine that there wasno electric light there at the time.

(29:25):
It was quite a bluff you saw. So imagine yourself in a desolate field,
virgin to full darkness, so thatwas sleeping. Well, it'
s not true. And when helooked at the window, they lit me
up with some sort of reflector outof the window in the middle of the

(29:51):
night and I never knew that whathad been such a light and disappeared,
that is, it went on itsway, as they went on to name,
and I was on the way ofa strong light, as a respecter.
That I never knew it was andas I say, if I had
been a person with an intern,for example, the Parrubis in Medrada.
Of course, I understand or ithappened to you no more or someone else

(30:17):
in your family. I also rememberthat I' ve been in the same
rooms, my aunt slept, butI don' t think she was that
soda to see. I don't know, I don' t remember,
we don' t think so,no, I don' t remember.
Well, you' d wake herup already, not that you didn
' t. I remember. Thatwas another event And then, after that,

(30:38):
we were there in the same field. Full night, dark, full
and good. When they came tosummer occasions, we used to gather almost
all the relatives there in that field, because I was at my grandfather'
s house and there was my grandmother' s brother' s house. Let

(31:00):
' s say about 500 meters andmy grandfather' s house were left a
hill and my grandmother' s brother' s house was down there in the
pampa and we were sitting out thereand some of them used to smoke a
cigarette in the night and they wouldgo out and talk and take a while

(31:23):
and we were there in the lamb, beg his clothes and see the whole
pampa downstairs and go out to mygrandmother' s brother' s house.
There was a pasture a cordar thereand there was a footprint on the side
of the pasture this in the middleof the night and there we saw that

(31:47):
a human figure was walking. Itwas a human figure walking along the side
of the trail of the pasture,speaking the pasture in the direction of my
uncle' s house, which wouldbe my aunt grandfather' s. Yeah,
but this figure was afluorescent, likeI sent you the picture by Whatsapp.

(32:13):
It' s a fluorescent figure,as you say the chapter of the
Five when apors was thinking the samething. Yeah, just like that.
So, so, so as?I mean, you see the figure of
a person totally, that is,neatly, a person but flowery. Of
course the way, a person walkedthe normal, but flowery thing weirder.

(32:39):
Yeah, the truth is, andI, well, the image I sent
you is exactly the same. Inever thought I' d be able to
find him by chance, I foundthose images, and that' s just
the way we looked at everything,we saw everything, and I don'

(33:00):
t know why it was circumstances.It was given that we got inside the
house. I don' t know. I think it went out of fear,
for nothing. We went into thehouse and we lost sight of the
figure of this tremendous and quite rare. What happens is that I say that
this area you saw must be veryloaded, it must be very loaded with

(33:29):
things to calculate, that it isa virgin field where surely there were ancient
settlers and so on. Of courseand there those who live in that area
tell of the place that you say. They have to be very loaded.
There' s a lot of talkgoing on. They have a lot of
mythology. Yeah, yeah, yeah? Is there a mythology? You see,

(33:54):
there' s a mythology. There' s even a character called the
chauco or the chauca would be thefemale version. Estedes are, as they
identify, a spirit dressed, anevil spirit that walks there that, for
example, the chauca would follow themen and the chauco to the women,

(34:19):
for example, that I tell thelegends out there that appear to him in
the field with a figure of ahandsome man to a woman bet And there,
well, that tries to attract theperson and one equal takes it and

(34:43):
loses it treme. Those are somelegends that, well, it happened to
me. We were walking in themiddle of the afternoon, he hesitates the
day and we were walking with someaunts and there are some trails in the

(35:08):
field, you had the main footprintand some trails through the middle of some
trees there and I, as aboy, well I would get in the
trails and suddenly I hear this onethrow you a clear kiss and I say
nothing. They' re gonna bethis ramblings looking at the traran fucking my

(35:32):
aunt there what you' d bedoing, calling some dog or some animal,
and I' ll come down fromthere. I' m getting back
into the main print. I meetmy aunt there and you say you'
re pulling. That' s whathe says and I say no. If
I thought it was you I toldyou I thought you wanted no, no,

(35:54):
no, and well it was likethat. It was like nothingness to
say we were all there thinking.You saw clearly what that was, of
course, but well, it usuallyhappens that says it kind of manifests like
that, or throws a kiss orif it laughs, yeah, yeah.

(36:17):
So that way of manifesting of thischaracter let' s say and the trauco
being tauca, how I end upbeing between short, forgive me for being
the chauco or the chauca. Saying, my grandfather calls it that you saw,
I don' t know if it' s the name, the name
that' s known. You sawyes, yes. And then another demonstration.

(36:39):
It' s a mark that letsus assimilate it as if it were
the excrement of this bug, let' s say yes. For example,
I have moved to the mountain andwe, like my grandfathers, go to
the mountain to look for wood,to look for firewood and good, as

(37:00):
I tell you of Monte Virgen andwe had to go with a machete opening
roads. You saw it coming clearand saying that we were only there,
if we were opening the way itwould give us no one else. In
a moment we sit down to restand, Grandpa, sit down on a

(37:21):
cut trunk. Let' s say, I mean, they had installed a
tree and well, the sixty there, because that was the main activity that
was to pull firewood out of thebush. So, well, it sits
there rest we start talking and stuffand all of a sudden, well he
stops so he' s opening hisway. When we turned where I'

(37:43):
d been sitting. He was thiskind of excrement mark that type a mound
as if to give you an ideaand well, for the next idea of
everything you' re hearing. Itwas some kind of scrambled eggs. Yeah,
like this, but I have apile like Mira and I was smoking

(38:15):
Ah, Mira was throwing herself likea steamer You saw, yeah, well.
That' s it, that's one of the marks and I
could see it several times. That' s the mark. My grandfather,
well, he was right. Mygrandfather used to catinaba was to make a
cross with the macheteste well, theregiving recommendations, I liked that fact.

(38:37):
Yeah, yeah, my grandfather didthat, he always made a cross with
the machete. Well, he cameout and I saw him several times.
Like I tell you, and it' s something that you, for example,
are here and you had there andyou looked at yourself the other way
when you looked back at it,that' s it. There' s

(39:00):
something clear, that' s crazy. Well, I understand that it is
very similar to the story that istold in northern Argentina, of a different
mythology, of Guaraní mythology. Asis the pombero there are others that among
them is the curupí and it isa legend similar to that you tell,

(39:22):
but in northern Argentina, well,and also in Paraguay, southern Brazil and
other places. But you know whatI was going to ask you. You
say that your grandfather had like thiscustom of making the cross with the machete
and I wanted to ask you ifby chance he didn' t have that
custom, also of leaving offerings onthe trail a cigarette butt or these things

(39:45):
that are usually done in other legends. That' s why I' m
asking you. Not really, asfar as I remember, not even my
grandfather has that habit. No,he' s pretty good out there talking
bad, and soon there' sa lot of dirty mouth. Yeah,
so my grandfather, the first thinghe was doing, he was throwing or

(40:07):
nothing wasn' t going. Yeah, well, he insults me in the
air badly seen and seen how toscare him perfect is fine, it scared
him nothing of giving him an offeringfor you to leave. No. No,
no, quite the contrary, quitethe opposite. Okay. No.
And there good, good, sogood. That' s what didn'

(40:30):
t happen to us there. Interestingand you have some history. I consult
you, because you have family therein chilo Em you saw that there is
much talk about it being a placewith many sorcerers, or you also talk
about the legend of Caleuche, whichis like this ghost ship. You know

(40:51):
some testimony you' ve been toldin your family. Well, look,
Lucila, I' ve just gotthe book in hand that' s good,
that I told you I was goingto send you. Yeah, that
' s good. It was calledChilo of history, mythology, well,
artilugio, custom of popular medicine inmeals, typical, its partitions everything is
another book. It' s notshows so much here, the mythology part.

(41:15):
I was just gonna pass you tothat chapter. I had already finished
the east side of the field andwell, I was going to pass to
the Chiloé part. Ah well,the anxiety you saw. I already wanted
to ask you why not son.That' s not perfect, it'
s really good. Now I'm getting loose because I was pretty good
at it, ah it' sokay. Here I am having some mates,

(41:37):
so that took me a coffee therevery well, even one looked.
I made radio, I' ma radio producer. But, well,
a while ago I quit and nowI' m quite this nervous extral.
Don' t worry, it's okay. Not good, I look

(42:00):
at you. He was talking aboutobvious kaIuche that he did. That was
one of the main stories of mythology. Chilota that they always told each other,
that one also instilled me so tospeak. It' s not the

(42:21):
subject, this one of the stories, because when I tell you that there
was history at family meetings, thatthey told each other and I' m
heavy because, as I tell you, I always attracted this paranormal thing and
all this interested me always and Iasked him how I already knew there were
stories. If so, my grandfatherwould ask what the kaleuche is up to.

(42:44):
I' ve got good. Whathappens is that, in reality,
as I told you at the beginning, here in Patagonia, it comes to
the south or more precisely they arecommodore. There is a lot of influence
from Chilean people and more precisely fromclear chiloé people. Yeah, yeah,

(43:05):
there' s a lot of chiloteshere and it' s kind of set
up. This you saw in mythology. Yeah, that' s right,
he' s intado, yeah.Any joke I made comes there one day
in Neblina, the kaleuche goes lawyou understand this yes, this brava at

(43:28):
that level, let' s saygood such milk. Yeah. There are
several stories on the ghost ship.Let' s say there' s a
ghost frame that appears and disappears withgreat ease in the days of Negrina.
Those who have managed to see themtell us that it is a wonderfully lit

(43:49):
boat and that its crew, whoare the sorcerers, sing and dance to
the rhythm of beautiful melodies with whichthey attract and love some merchants to supply
them with merchandise. And he saysthat the merchants who have had contact with
the sorcerers started with small things andtoday are prosperous and important traders in the
area. It is also the missionof this ship to transport the sorcerers.

(44:12):
This can be moved both low andover the sea. That would be the
kaleuche. Yeah, well, thisboat disappearing unexpectedly from that environment, a
strange noise of chains and the echoesof music. Many people even related milk
to a Dutch pirate ship traveling inthese pairs. Of course yes, and

(44:37):
that, as you say, theinteresting thing is not only that it is
told in Chile, but that thislegend is shared with the admiring trasandina that
is given towards Argentina. It issomething that is beginning to glimpse not only
the caleuche on the coasts of ChileanPatagonia, but also of Argentinian Patagonia.
And, as you say before,any first fog. It' s already

(45:00):
suspected that he can walk just likethat. Yeah, well, if I
told you that there were people outthere who felt attracted when caloche appeared I
was wearing because it was a brightlighted boat and said that there was a

(45:20):
lot of noise like a party.There were women, there are many people
dancing and the sailors, the peopleon the coast felt tempted. Let'
s say to see what' snot going on up there. Yeah,
and well, they were allowed togo up, but, well, then

(45:42):
there was no turning back. Itwas not known if they would return and
if they had, they would surelyreturn me in good condition. We see
clearly, of course because also whatis told and you here correct me if
I am wrong. It' sthe version I have that' s like
a kind of salamanca, but inversion it goes like one is a kind

(46:02):
of sorcerer' s meeting that's done on top of that boat,
that they do at their meetings ofthat rush and other issues and that each
time they tie that boat to thecoast and those parties make them in some
house, always in exchange for somethingnot, and in this case I understand

(46:25):
that certain important places or cities onthe coast there is always someone with a
lot of money, with maybe manylocals, or someone who has enriched himself
overnight and associates it with that,well, this is the one that allows
the parties to take place in theCaleuche house and in return, has all
that wealth. Yeah, yeah,sure, he' s probably coming that

(46:47):
way. Others say that there arepeople just like they have enriched themselves because
well, being a pirate ship,they have left their burials, as they
tell them in Chiloé that they arethe hidden treasures. Let' s say
then these people dig him up andhe' s getting rich for that reason

(47:13):
and there are several. That's why there are several versions. Yeah,
and of the good dye and thegood pincolla is actually one means in
the tongue wilitche picaflor oh look yes. She is a woman of extraordinary beauty
in which the fertility of the coastsof Chiloé and its marine species is personified.

(47:39):
Sometimes it is attributed the scarcity orabundance of fish and seafood. The
pincoya usually appears on the coast withthe ting Kong, her husband, who
sits to sing on a rock,where he attracts the pincolla and wraps it
with his melodious voice, making herenter into a wonderful sensual frenzied dance.

(48:00):
If you go back to the seathere will be plenty and if you dance
back to the beach, you willhave graphic case. I liked that.
That version is like a mermaid,of course. I want to make some
kind of mermaid, but it doesn' t really have any fish. Let

(48:24):
' s be clear, she totallybecomes a woman. Yes, of course,
just like the naked woman and shesays the fishermen have seen her in
the rocky ones combing her long hair. Sure, when the chilotes shipwreck the
picolla, come help, look youwere great I had heard another version where

(48:45):
the two legends are linked, thoseof the pincoyla and that of the caleuche,
where the pincoya would act as akind of siren that captures the castaways
or those even people who have diedon the high seas. They grab them,
take them to the boat and thewitches of the kaleuche through all rituals

(49:07):
and magic work, like they reviveand leave it, as if it were
part of the crew of the kaleuche. No, because I even think they
' re actually two different figures.Ah there is the tluña as well and
the pincola, that is, aredifferent figures. The boy is already like

(49:29):
some kind of would come to bein chilota mythology, a kind of goddess.
It' s the sea. Wellit' s good that you can
deduce this if there' s goingto be this sparse abundance, well,
well, perfect that nothing. Morethan anything, that would be existence.

(49:52):
And well, or if you'll forgive him. No. We'
re not going, well, Idon' t know if you remember any
of this May character I' mnot telling you about. If I don
' t name you one, no, no, no, no, whatever
you like. I was going toask you if within your family you had
any testimony about this, about theselegends. Yes, even well, within

(50:19):
my family, as my grandfather Paternotold you, that thank God two is
still alive in you eighty- sevenyears. To him you ask and this
tell there I am very reserved,same with the subject, of course,
but if you ask him if hetells you even he had a guy who

(50:42):
was supposedly a witch ah Mira.Yes and well, you saw that you
probably heard that when a sorcerer dieshe has to leave this one, that
is, he has to transcend thatpower to someone else, his children.
Yeah, well, as it's known in chine, he' s

(51:07):
got to inherit his vest. Ah, look, I didn' t know
that. Of course it' ssaid that means, I don' t
know if it' s actually asuit or it' s said that by
the power to inherit look at you, but in turn, well, that

(51:31):
heir has to accept the cost.Let' s be clear, because in
exchange for that power, let's say what it' s like to
know how to say the supreme sorcerers. In exchange for that power they demand
the life of a loved one.Let' s say a sacrifice, an

(52:00):
offering to supreme sorcerers. Let's be clear and there would be your
uncle telling you something else, youruncle not, your grandfather' s uncle
would be clear and now the manthat, but well, he tells me
about Montorio, no more. Butwe always joked that if he left Chaleco,

(52:25):
he sure there would ask yes,who did the Vest leave him with?
Of course, we always bromine withthat, and he' s out
there saying someone who did leave him. He stayed that he did not,
but astro joked that he had leftit to him because in fate eighty-
seven years and a clear light andhe will not do something that later,

(52:51):
when he is there, he wantsto leave it to you or it really
happened that nothing is right. Thisyes, well, those are I think
the sorcerer is the main character withinthe interesting clear chilote mythology. Yeah,

(53:14):
the truth is good. So,there' s a lot and it'
s so in Chiloé. So presentis the mythology that you to, for
example, in an Ancu city,one of the main cities of the island
of Chiloé reach the terminal of collectivesand that is, Omnews and are all
the mythological beings painted on the wallOh what beauty. Yes, not impressive,

(53:43):
come to another emblematic city of Chiloéwhich is that John And you have
a museum of mythological beings. Idon' t have to go, I
have to go urgent. Yeah,yeah, you like it. That'
s the truth. I kind ofpee this and then, when I book

(54:06):
well and I said I don't have to buy it. So there
' s something to see. Ibought it. Yeah and well, sometimes
good, you have a character,pincollas, you have the figure, you
have the cabobuet. Having a duvetthe widow is very similar to the crybaby,
but in reality she seeks, saysshe seeks attractive men and to satisfy

(54:36):
her needs. You saw that good. He says that she kind of catches
him, catches him, takes himto his varietal, let' s say,
and at that moment, like heleaves him mind, but well,

(55:00):
then she demands that it is soin his needs and then, well,
it frees them, but for atime they follow him that way of mind
and until they regain this knowledge.Sure, that would be the idea I
' m interested in. And whatis the legend that impacted you most of

(55:22):
all that you met there, inchiloé the truth that all the characters have
theirs, out there is more relevant. So is work. It' s
still medium. Kind of like thechauco I was telling you about. Yeah,

(55:45):
it' s kind of, sortof just as much niomo as spiritual.
So evil you saw, of courseI the trauco knew him the chauco.
No, so that' s whereI got my earring, but I
took it for that similar to thepombero, because it' s something that
' s told similar to the story. But I think the pombero is quite
similar to the Trauco. Yeah,yeah, yeah, yeah? I think

(56:07):
it' s pretty close to thestory of the Trauchus. The chao I
tell you is like an evil spirit. Just like that, that, nothing
else did you see yes, yes, and well, then there' s
the seahorse Basilisco, the Culebron,the Chihue, the q te Tmvilu and

(56:34):
Kaicaiviru, which supposedly were the creatorsof the island of Chiro. It'
s clear exactly. Yeah, that' s right. There are already several
that you mentioned that have a lotto do with Mapuche mythology and are also
counted in much of Argentina. Ofcourse it happens to you that well,

(56:58):
the Huilitches are a kind of derivativeof Mapuche culture. Of course I do,
because those are actually this equals havepart of Mapuche, of course exactly.
Yeah. Yes, so there areseveral there that resonate are also Argentine

(57:22):
mythology. It' s very interesting. The truth is that how it is
shared and transmitted in orality. Yeah, the cuchiviru just like a half pig
animal and half snake that one after, just like the imbunche, the muuche.
Well, that' s related towhat I was telling you about out

(57:45):
there, the sacrifice that witches haveto make. No, because Nucha is
the guardian of the Sorcerer' sCave. Yes, I' m going
to tell you because if I'm not going to deal with a summary,
because if it' s not goingto be understood, I' m

(58:07):
going to tell you what the witchesare like. And well, the sorcerer
is the enemy of the clean.The clean would be we say its power,
extreme strength and its ability to convertor transform things or people are amazing
that can amaze even the most unbelievers. The sorcerers formed in Chilodé an institution
called Recta province, which has itslarge or majority house near the village of

(58:30):
Kikabi. That is where the arrestsare made quietly, without anyone interrupting them,
as they are guarded by the ninbunche. The sorcerer has to meet certain
requirements to belong to the majority andexercise his art. To recognize them,
he throws a handful of the arrowinto the bracero and if someone sneezes,

(58:51):
it is because he is a sorcererto eliminate us, he will have to
be surprised by someone in his misdeed. That way he' ll die before
a year and only what' shappened in most legends. That' s
where they tell you the Chiloé isthat the sorcerers have been discovered out there
because they have the ability to transforminto animals, of course. And there

(59:16):
are people out there who have suspectedthat there is no ordinary animal and that
' s where they have decided toattack that I, to put it,
hit a dog on one leg andthe other day the sorcerer appears to be
quarreling. Of course then or,for example, my grandfather told me that

(59:37):
there was an episode where there wasa dog that followed a person always followed
everything every morning and not to takemorning to a girl and the girl I
think that good realized that it wasnot a dog. He told her to
transform herself in front of her andshe knew who she was. And it

(59:58):
had to be transformed and at thesame time as the sorcerer was discovered Mira
died. That didn' t knowthat when he was discovered, he died
supposedly clearly and yes because he lostall his gifts. Let' s say
clearly so it weakens completely look interesting. Yeah, over there the imbunche to

(01:00:24):
relate to this witch story. Theno chea that hypertrophied being who cares for
the cave of the sorcerers is anewborn child who is kidnapped donated by some
sorcerer, reared by the knot inthe cave and fed it with human flesh
and cat milk. When he grows, the sorcerers transform him into a monster
by deforming him by putting a legon his spine that prevents him from moving

(01:00:49):
away from the cave. He isallowed to leave only when he has to
feed, moving on three legs andemitting guttural sounds, frightening and horrifying those
who sound them. If a cleanman sees it, he transforms or fights
it forever. The only ones whocan safely look at them are the sorcerers.

(01:01:10):
If they hit an imbunche at night, it means there' s going
to be plague and death. Theflesh of this being heals any disease and
when one dies the sorcerers will pleitait. That' s Brunbunch' s
story. Tremendous, yes, yes, grateful, quite unpleasant also Timmuichi'

(01:01:34):
s image. Of course and youknow that one of the versions that I
had read of the kaleuche now mademe remember with this that you mentioned about
the leg of the spine, theysaid that if you are on the coast
one night with fog and see thefigure, the Caleuche and so on,

(01:01:57):
that what you have to do isignore it as trying not to look at
it, because if you look atit fixed trying to discover the sorcerers that
are up there what will happen toyou is that you will deform your leg
and you will stick it in yourback. It was one of the versions
I read and it' s verysimilar to this that you' re telling
yourself. Not as you remember.That' s why you saw how I
told you about this Kaleuthe subject.Yes, usually, a lot of these

(01:02:22):
beings agree that if you discover itor look at it in the eyes or
as if you personally do some damageor make you lose your memory or leave
you mind with some mental imbalance.Of course, everything around here is permanent

(01:02:45):
or provisional. Let' s sayyes, yes, what a beard that
is. I' ve heard thata lot and with several of these characters.
Well, you don' t haveany more experience that you want to

(01:03:07):
share your own truth that now doesn' t come to mind? But not
the truth that it doesn' tcome to mind? One spot one and
there was, as I tell you, I had made a compilation of everything
that had happened to me, butnow no, it doesn' t come
to mind. It' s notright, but it' s not good.

(01:03:28):
This shot is still good. I' m having interaction I can'
t send that good. Okay.Thank you very much. The truth is
that it' s super interesting andthe fact that you like the theme and
your whole family goes to your wholefamily, no, but a lot of
your family lives in that area andeverything they' ve transmitted to you and

(01:03:51):
what you' ve learned with thetrips is fascinating So thank you so much
for sharing this time, for tellingthem legends, for competing your stories,
your personal experiences, those of yourfamily. The truth is it' s
been a huge pleasure to hear you. It' s not my pleasure,
it' s the truth that's good. Yeah, I can wait

(01:04:12):
for the interview. Yes, alsograteful for your patience, for your interest
more than anything and good to congratulatealso for your space. The truth is
that I' m a great listenerof yours out there as I was telling
you, I put my earpieces backon my feet, so I' ll

(01:04:32):
pass faster. Now work. Let' s say good how good I am.
I' m glad it helps torelax the work a little. It
' s gonna make it happen faster. I' m so glad. Okay.
Really. Thank you very much,Javier. It' s a great
pleasure to share this time with you. No problem waiting for the interview.
We all have a life and aroutine that always goes they reward other things.

(01:04:57):
So there' s no problem.So I send you a huge hug,
Javier, and well, whenever youwant and you have more stories to
share, you know you can doit. Come on. Thank you very
much. There we will be incontact with any one of them if I
make another compilation and surely with somerelatives, I will see if you dare
to tell any story and there Itransmit it to Goyas. All your listener.

(01:05:21):
Thank you very much, Lucila,and good to continue visits again.
Thank you very much, thank youvery much. Right, I send you
a big hug and good night,of course, a hug good night.
Now yes, I hope you enjoyedthis special episode. If you have stories
to share, don' t hesitateto get in touch with us and of

(01:05:42):
course you' re also on socialmedia and feel like sharing a story by
stealing us there listening to the podcast. That helps us a lot to spread
to reach more listeners and also,of course, to reach more experiences.
I remember the networks because of thedoubts, in instagram, is to rock,
myths and legends, to Facebook,the YouTube channel and all podcast platforms

(01:06:04):
find it as Argentine myths and legends. Look, man, it' s
strach- looking, and we're seeing each other listening in a next
episode of this same podcast.