Stephen Chong shared his near-death experience, which led to writing a book about a character named Afar who overcomes purgatory through forgiveness. Stephen described vivid visions of heavenly realms, including a healing arena where souls were renewed and the abode of reunion where souls communicated through silver cords. He emphasized the importance of forgiveness, love, and fulfilling one's divine purpose. Stephen also discussed the concept of heavenly laws, such as "What you have caused to affect in your fellow man is what declares your place in heaven."
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Next Level Soul podcast, where we ask
the big questions about life. Why are we here? Is
this all? There?
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Is?
Speaker 1 (00:10):
What is my soul's mission? We attempt to answer those
questions and more by bringing you raw and inspiring conversations
with some of the most fascinating and thought provoking guests
on the planet. Today, I am your host, Alex Ferrari. Now,
before we dive into today's conversation, I want to invite
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(01:20):
your awakening. Now let's begin today's episode. Disclaimer. The views
and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the
guests and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions
of this show, its host, or any of the companies
they represent. I'd like to welcome to the show Steven, Chang,
Hia and Stephen very well.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Thank you, Alex, and thank you for having me go
on the program.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Thank you so much for waking up early. I know
you're on the other side of the world today. I
truly truly appreciate you waking up. You have some coffee,
so hopefully you won't doze off in the middle of
the interview, so I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I'm all good, nice.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Thank you so thank you for coming on the show
and sharing your story, your near death experience and what
happened to you on the other side. And my first
question to you is what was life like prior to
your near death experience?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
As it's very interesting because life has become more vivid
by virtue of what I've learned through the experience. Things
that are are not important get dropped away, and it's
like it's almost hard to describe. Yeah, the music and
the colors of life become more intense. So and it's
(02:34):
like you you keep pushed and redirected to what you
meant to be doing, you know, to fulfill your purpose.
That's become the ultimate part of the experience, I believe.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
No, So, were you a religious man prior to your
near death?
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Say that again?
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Were you religious?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
No? You could call them a spiritual if you like,
but no, no, there's no religion in me that I know.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
So you essentially were living a fairly normal, everyday life
prior to your near death experience.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah, And like any good sixty year old,
I did something stupid and fell off a roof.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
As our ego listen, our mind thinks were twenty, but
our body quickly reminds us that we're not. Yeah, to
be sure, I mean for people listening and who are
younger than both you and I. You know, sometimes I've like, oh, yeah,
I could run over there, and I could jump over that,
and then all of a sudden, the knees start to
(03:37):
ache for some reason, and the ankles are like, remember
what happened when you were twenty two and you were
playing football and your ankle got torn up. There that
it's back?
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Is that back?
Speaker 1 (03:49):
The mind is always younger than the body for whatever. Yeah,
absolutely about tell me what happened. So tell me what happened.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Well, what happened. I was, you know, I was up
planning it as you do, you up cleaning out the gutters.
And it was a Saturday morning and normally my wife
is absent, going shopping or doing things. And the latter slip.
And if you can see behind me, you have these
louver windows. So the ladder went through all of these
(04:17):
louvers like glass everywhere, and I'm about five meters off
the ground here. So I'm in a screaming heap, calling
out my wife's name, and I couldn't feel anything. I
couldn't feel my body. Really, I thought, I'm in trouble.
I'm in trouble.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
But here we stand.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
You know, the paramedics came and you know, thanks to
the gods that we're there. On the day, I'm okay,
things work nothing. I fractured my neck, but through the
course of rehabilitation all as well.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
So when did you have your near death experience?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
What happened Alex. The experience came consequential of the accident.
So during rehabilitation, I had this, the title of the book,
going through my head and just the backtrack, I'd shut
down you and I've written five books in screenplaces and things,
(05:24):
so I shut down. I'm not doing anymore. But this
title was pounding in my head, you know, whilst I'm
lying on the couch in this rehabilitation, and I said,
eventually I'm given in. I said, okay, to the universe,
if you want me to write this scene you I
(05:46):
have no idea, I don't know. You want me to
write about the afterlof what do I know? I'm not
there yet. But I bought in the process and said, okay,
do you want me to write it? I'm in. And
from that point it was like being not like the term,
(06:09):
but given a superpower. As soon as I sat down
to write again, I had no storyline, no characters, no nothing.
It was like was there. It was, It was a cascade.
I sat down to write, and I saw these things
and heard the music and saw the colors, and it
(06:29):
was like taking dictation, you know. All I all I
had to do was kind of interpret what I saw
and therein lies the majesty of the experience, because I say,
previously I shut down and I'm not doing anymore. But
it was all there waiting for me, which was the
greatest gift.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
So then what was it? So tell us the story
of the other side.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Oh my goodness, where do I start? That was the
first person narrative. So I'm seeing through the eyes of
this character in heaven, and the character himself in life
was a young man who was abused under the auspices
of the clergy, and he was stuck in this purgatory
(07:19):
by virtue of the guilt and the shame and the
anger that he felt. He was stuck there. And this
is what I'm seeing. He's there and doesn't know how
to get out. And the story evolves with the Bishop
of the Sea, who's passed under, who's in sousions. This
(07:40):
young man was abused. They come together in relationships, and
by virtue of the forgiveness that they are able to
show one another, they then moved through the different levels
of heaven. So through through this character's eyes, he was
taken through the different levels of heaven. But I'm seeing
(08:03):
and trying to interpret to the best of my abilities.
What this character was experiencing.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
So what's so, let's go for the ride. What happened?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Well, my goodness, where do I start? Let me let
me give you any The first experience that comes to
mind is the healing arena. Ah. Now, this character these
name is Afar. He was taken to this. If you
can imagine a huge colosseum and in and in the
(08:39):
like the in the audience, there's all these beautiful souls,
colors and music and they're all chanting the old sound.
So there's all this beautiful spirit around and in the
middle of this arena with these lounge shares recliner chairs,
and so I'm just I'm just right. I'm seeing this
(09:00):
and writing in to the urnic escorted by these seraphim
beautiful little angels. Were these this disease discrep crepid souls
and they were put on these lounge shears and then
(09:22):
in walked with this angelic beans to describe him. And
then he he started to manipulate the energy and like
in a magnetic ball, and from the magnetic ball shot
down this these streams of light into these souls that
(09:45):
were reclined on the on the couches. From there you know,
once he'd finished his his work, he these souls were
totally renewed, so they were, you know, whatever was their
ailments were before, they were totally renewed.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
But the interesting thing about that, Alex was what I
what I learned afterwards, was souls that caused injury by
others on Earth do not bear the consequences of those actions,
so that they are relieved of those burdens that are
caused by others, if that makes sense, not what they
(10:42):
did to themselves or not what they not. I if
I did a bad thing to you, you would not.
You might be suffering under the weight of that action,
but you do not suffer the consequences of that action.
So you relieve that those burdens. And that is what
that magnetic coral was I understand was all about. Again,
(11:06):
whether you believe it or not is I don't know.
But that's what I saw and that's what I interpreted.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
So let me let me ask you. So, so you
didn't have an actual near death experience in the way
that is traditional.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
I wouldn't call it traditional note, but it was certainly
I guess you'd call it a spiritually awakening experience, no
doubt about that.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Okay. So then so when you when you were told
about this, this this book idea, it started to come in.
You were almost channeling this, uh this stuff you got,
you got glimpses into the other side at least.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Yes, I don't like the term channeling. Doesn't sit well
with me. Sure fair enough, Yeah, because I'm just a
regular dude. You know, I'm not a medium or anything
like that. I cannot deny what I experienced, and it
because it was real and it was a gift, and
(12:02):
I just had to write what I saw.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Well, let me ask you that, did at any point
in this experience that someone explained to you or anything
explained to you why you were the one chosen for this?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
No, no, I can't say that. No, I don't know.
But I got to tell you what was it? What's interesting,
Probably three or four months after writing the book, and
you know, you do all the editing and read it
a hundred times, I'm missing something here and it was
(12:34):
like a revelation. And so I read through the book again,
probably for the nd of time. But what I now understand,
it's not just a story and the description of what
heaven is like it describes. Inherent in the text are
(12:54):
laws of heaven and earth, laws that underpin h how
did experiences happen in heaven and consequential of our actions
on earth? And I've written I found fourteen or fifteen far.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
So what are some of these? And so one of these?
What are some?
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Let me give you a couple. Let me read you
wanted to. There's one. What you have cause to effect
in your fellow man is what declares your place in heaven.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Mhmm.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Let me give you another one. The judgment of heaven
is neither vindictive or eternal, but probationary and remedial.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
It takes a while to wrap your head around that
sort of stuff. I mean, there's I mean, the one
we all know is what you show so share your
group that the great texts tell us that, and that's
one of the principal ones. But I mean there's a
whole heap of others. Forgiveness is at the heart of
our ultimate realization. There's a lot.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
More so, so, where does so where does the reincarnation
or people coming in and out of lives?
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Does that play into what you saw.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
It's a good question. The answer is no, I didn't.
I mean, you know, I've got particular beliefs. But in
the course of the text, in the course of the writing,
there was no mention of reincarnation.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
No, but there was methods of souls doing going through
a process. And well, let me ask you, yes, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Uh, Well, let me put it this way. The the
the levels of heaven are experienced. Ah, they're an exploration,
so there are never there. It's an evolutionary process. So
if we look at that second law, the out of
heaven is neither vindictive or eternal, but probation in the remedial.
(15:04):
That means that in heaven it is completely You're continuing
to evolve through the evolutionary process. So whether that's reincasion,
reincarnation or not, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
So how many levels are there in heaven?
Speaker 2 (15:20):
I would say that I experienced probably four or five.
I was taken to the nether regions, So what are
another regions? Let me try and describe the best of
my ability. It was taken through a like a landscape
(15:43):
that was denuded by fire. So that was and the
smell was awful. And remember I'm seeing and smelling and
hearing all of this, and then taken through this immense portal.
And remember the character is guided by an angelic being,
so he's not on his own. He's drinken there. Now,
(16:03):
what I saw were these huge vortices, vortices of power
in which these souls were entrapped. Uh and standing around
these vortices of power were these angelic beings. And the
(16:24):
way it was described to me, and what I saw
was these souls are trapped by choice. It's not judgment,
trapped by virtue of It's called them the seven Deadly sins,
the gluttony, the wrath, the lust, that sort of things.
So they're trapped by this choice. And these angelic beings
(16:45):
were standing there waiting for the first signs of redemption.
So as soon as they were able to escape from
that point of choice, they were taken away to some
other area. But what was explained is that it was
not God's judgment, it was choice. Were these souls were
(17:11):
entrapped by choice. So that was if that doesn't turn
knowing that, if that doesn't turn one away from choices,
I don't know what will. But then I was there,
I don't know. Again, I was taken in the nether regions,
and then to even the higher levels. Right at the
(17:32):
end of the book, I was taken up to these
these and angelic areas with grand views of the music
and the love and the colors that were embedded through
through all of our lives.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
There is no from my understanding, there is no language
on the other end, there's altelepathy, almost instant in knowledge.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
It's a very good question. Yes, yes, through the writing
I was, of course there were. There was a dialogue
as described in the book. But it was a process
of thought. So thought has power, yes, and thought enabled transportation,
so the adept could transport themselves from one area to
(18:17):
the other just by the power of thought. Yes, that
was inherent.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
So and was there an overwhelming feeling of love.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Ah Alex, Yes, let me give you an example of that.
The one that comes to mind was this author character
was taken into a hall for children. And remember I'm
seeing through his eyes, So I'm walking into this beautiful building,
(18:50):
and I can even now feel the sense of overwhelming
love that was in this place. And this place was
the called the hall for children. So children that have
left the earthplane early totally loved and nurtured by the Divine,
(19:11):
by the Father and his angels. I can barely describe
for the love that I felt as soon as I
walked into this building was like a warm blanket on
a cold day. But the love all children, irrespective, irrespective
whether they're ties to parental responsibilities are strong or whether
(19:35):
those ties are a seven, all are loved by the
Father without exception.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
So there's so so what I'm hearing is no judgment,
complete love that souls. It's choice is a very big thing.
Freedom of free will seems to be a very big
thing there that we choose to come down here to
(20:05):
experience this, this realm. If you will too, is it
a to learn lessons? We'll be right back after a
word from our sponsor and now back to the show.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Yes, I understand the world and bee with the divine purpose.
You know we we are, we are a tear drop
from the Father. We all have a divine purpose to feel.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
That to me?
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Is it is an absolute given?
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Well, let me ask you a question. Everything that we've
been talking about so far, there's some very big, some
very broad ideas, but there's some ideas that are very
leaning into Christianity and Catholicism or those kind of iconic
images of like the nether Regions and the obviously, you
know there's other obviously other religions that talk about those
(21:01):
kind of things. But you know, I'm just curious for
like other people who have Buddhist beliefs or other kind
of beliefs that don't lean themselves into this iconography. What
did you what is your feeling on that.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
It's a good question, and let me let me answer
that by virtue of prey recent experience, I lost a
very dear friend a couple of weeks ago. Uh h,
and he was uh he was a very staunch Catholic,
a beautiful man, and and he yeah, I challenged his
(21:45):
systems of belief through through you know, the things that
we're talking about now. But ultimately with these passing now,
I understand and I feel a hole in the heart
through the grief of loss of my best friend. But
I know it is even with the strong sense of
(22:06):
religious Catholicism that he believed in, he is in the
most beautiful places by virtue, not so much perhaps because
of his religious religiosity, but by virtue of what he's
done for others. You know, he served his community with
much love, so with the basis of religion in his soul.
(22:29):
But it's what he's what he did for the community,
which was a great thing. So I know he's exolved
to be the high levels of the heavenly tears.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
So it's not as much about the club or the
group that you're involved with. It's your actions and what
you do. Is that what makes sense? In other words,
because there's so much that divisive, like my religion is
better than your religion. I am the chosen people. You
poor thing. You're not chosen, then you're gonna go to hell.
(23:02):
You know, these kind of ideas that have been thrown
around for millennia at this point in the game. But
I like the idea that it is not the group
that you're associated with. Basically, you were born into You're
born into your religion. You don't, generally speaking, unless you
pick it up later in life, but you're born into
the religion that you are raised with because you're born
(23:22):
with it. You don't come in as a Catholic, you
don't come in as a Jew, you don't come in
as a Muslim or Hindu. You are taught these ideas
by your parents and society around you. But it's not
about the religious group that you're in. It's about what
you do for your fellow man. The service that you provide,
the deeds that you do are much more or those
(23:45):
are the only thing that really count. But the basis
of religion brought him down a certain world because there
are certain ideas in Catholicism that are really good. There's
a lot of dogma in there as well, not so good,
but that's the set of every religion.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Does that make sense, absolutely, Alex, I think you're absolutely
right on the money with that. And let's look at
that through the prison of a couple of these other laws. Uhh,
where did it go? Uh? In heaven the emperor wears
no clothes mm hm. So to me that this perfectly
(24:20):
describes what you're saying. It doesn't matter whether you're wearing
the robes of a bishop or a pauper. You in
in heaven you are. It's what you have done to
your fellow man that causes your place in heaven. That
determines your place in heaven. So you know, if i've
if I you know, you could take a look at
(24:42):
some of these world leaders now, so the presidents or whatever.
But when they confront themselves in in the heavenly realms,
they you don't wear this status. Is what you've done
to your fellow man, because to your place in heaven.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
That makes that is, it makes a lot of sense,
because it really doesn't. At the end of the day,
like they say, you can't there's no U hauls attached
to the horses. Generally, you can't take it with you.
It doesn't. It doesn't matter how many billions of dollars
you've done, or what have you done with what you
(25:19):
have been given? What have you done with the platforms
you've been out or even not so grandiose, what have
you done in your own community? What have you done
within your own family to help others in your family?
It's something about being of service, being of help. And
what part does forgiveness play in the interesting?
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Yeah, let me give you another lull around that. Where
did the forgiveness one go? Forgiveness is at the heart
of your ultimate realization. That's I think it's a hard
one repeater.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
And let's unpack that for a second. Say that sentence again.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Forgiveness at the heart of your ultimate realization.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
So let's use the word realization is the word I wanted,
because that's that's the important word there, forgiveness in the
word realization, and you know, you know Yogi's like Yogananda
spoke about self realization and being able to really to
realize who you truly are in tear that you are
a part of you are God, you are part of
the source energy, whatever that you know, we call it God,
(26:31):
call it source, call it whatever you want to call it.
And is realizing that and for you cannot ascend to
that level without forgiveness and without service.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Yes, absolutely, Alex, And that to me was inherent in
this character Athahles aggression through the heavenly realms. He would
not have been able to see what he saw and
taken to the places that he was taken to without
him for giving others for the things that had have
(27:08):
happened to you.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
And also not only forgiving others, forgiving yourself.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
I mean, I think it's I think that's the we're
so much more brutal with ourselves than we are with
others in many in many many ways. And I think
the biggest forgiveness is to forgive ourselves for mistakes or
things that we perceive to be mistakes or things like that.
You know, at the end of the day, it doesn't
matter these these things that we are. We're so caught
up with things here on this plane that at the
(27:38):
end it doesn't it doesn't matter. Like when you're on
your deathbed, are you really going to worry about that
one thing that you did when you were in high school?
Speaker 4 (27:46):
Really?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Is that?
Speaker 1 (27:49):
But that one thing could have haunted you for thirty
or forty years. If not, you maybe your entire life
because you haven't forgiven yourself orself something that you perceived
to have done wrong.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
You know absolutely, And you know we've been told by
virtue of religion. We've been told so often that we
are sinners, yes, that are sacred, and there in lies
another law. Let me just find that one. To there
we go. To know that you are is not to
see new things in you, but to see yourself as
(28:23):
you really are.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
To remember, yeah, yeah, to remember, to realize who you
truly are, a realization of who this this this you are,
not this meat meat suit walking around. You are more
more powerful. Jesus said these things, you know, Buddha said,
these things, these are these are not revolutionary ideas. Truth
(28:46):
is truth, regardless of where it comes from. And that's
the one thing I'm very very interested about when I
do this show is I realized that so many of
the people that I bring on the show, very similar
ideas are brought through different packaging similar ideas because truth
is truth, and you might not want to listen. You
(29:06):
might not connect with me or you in this conversation,
but you might connect with somebody else on another show.
You might connect with the book, you might connect with
the TV show that's giving you the same idea, you
might connect with the movie that gives you the idea.
But the truth is the truth regardless.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Yes, there you go. An interesting alex I think, and
I've pondered often about this distinction between you know, we
talked about experiences and all this sort of thing, and
why I was given this book in the form of story,
because what we know is that when we talk about
these things, people, when they're entital to burdens a proof,
(29:45):
you know, they want to know where this stuff comes from.
And I've pondered often why always given not the messages
but the story. And what I understand now is exactly
what saying is that when you you know, when you
hear of others experiences in the near death field. It's
(30:08):
rather objective, you know, you're seeing, well that other person
had the experience, or isn't that amazing, which which it
is denying.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
But when we read these stories, we can we delve
into the levels, you know, beyond the literal, whether you
believe it or not, and down into the metaphysical, where uh,
you know, these these laws, universal laws are expelled. But
even deep we go into the mystical. When you read
(30:48):
a piece or a chapter or something and you go, oh,
I got that. That's that's the truth, that's my truth.
And there thereafter you obviously live that truth. But through
the medium of store, through the eyes of this character,
we are able to read and discover our own truth,
(31:10):
which I think is the magical part of it.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
So what are some other levels that the character went through.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Oh, let me give you another one. The abode of
reunion comes to mind. And again remember I make no
judgments on any of this. I just write what I
saw the abode of reunion was what I saw was
(31:37):
this plane where all these souls were standing, and they
were in communion with other souls and some of the souls,
and these silver cords stretching over the mists, the mist
between heaven and mirth. I what's this and what it
(31:58):
was explained is when when we sleep, when we stood
in the body, sleep, we are able to soul is
able to go to this abode of reunion and meet
up with loved ones that are able to guide and
(32:19):
give us advice. If that makes sense, So then that soul,
you know, when when the body wakes up, you have
the soul slips back in itself. But that that that
what I understand is that cord, that silver cord of attachment,
was the love between we on earth and that soul
(32:44):
in heaven. That was it. So if we're burdened by
something or put them or whatever, where the soul is
able to get advice from those on the other side
through that.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
It's it's so funny you say these things, because these
are things I've heard before and many narrative experiences. The
silver cord is even in ancient spiritual texts they talk
about a silver cord connecting the soul to the body.
When we sleep, we're able to leave the body. Dreams
are interpretations sometimes guidance for you. I wish they would
(33:20):
be more straightforward with the situation and that and that, like, oh,
there's a dog in my bed eating ice cream? What
does that mean? I can you just tell me what
the hell this is as opposed to me trying to
figure out why the dog's eating ice cream in my
bed when I was a kid, like, I don't understand
these kind of these kind of dreams that we get
(33:41):
is fascinating to me. So that's a really interesting place.
I mean, you have to tell me a couple more
because this is all fascinating to me.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Okay, well, was.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
There a life Was there a place where life reviews happened?
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Oh yes, oh yes, those myths I talked about. What
I understand is they that that was like a purgatree.
So when we pass, we pass through these mists where
our life is reviewed, and it's not you know that
God sitting on his throne saying you are a bad day,
(34:19):
you are a bad dude. You're looking in the mirror
of reflection and what you have done to cause to
effect in another. But the interesting thing what I saw
from that is when we when the souls exit these mists,
if you will. They were robed in these and the
(34:42):
best I could describe and is like you're the aura
you carry, but there's beautiful like some were beautiful robes
in all the colors I can I cannot describe to
you properly. But so some souls and you can't rand
you can't take this garment off. It's part of you.
(35:04):
And some souls were coming through these myths with these
beautiful colors, but others were coming through in light passion,
dark brown things. But what these colors designate is the
pathway that you then follow. What the grand Master said
(35:28):
to us, I go to prepare a house for you,
said in John fourteen the same thing. So the colors
of the robes designate the pathway that you then follow.
So it's kind off, you're a really spiritual good guy
or person, you up your go, But there were others
that would had to follow, had to follow. There was
(35:51):
a character latter around the book that tried to move
up thought these persons. You know, she was her station
was higher than she thought, and she could not breach
those higher levels.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
So it's interesting because I understand what it is. It
sounds from listening to you that there's a judgment play here,
but from my under meaning, someone's judging you like you
can't move forward. But it seems also that it's something
that the soul itself is trying to like, Okay, I
have to go down to this level, and this is
(36:25):
where I'm at right now, because there's levels of evolution
of the soul. But with that said, then without reincarnation,
there is it's difficult to understand how you can continue
to develop and evolve and go back and forth. Because
if you come into one life, just one thing, and
you live for one day and you go up, not
(36:48):
a lot of stuff you could do. So the concept
of the concept of reincarnation, which has been talked about forever,
it makes a lot of sense to me. If we
are to believe this idea of souls evolving so learning,
if we're here to learn lessons, then why does one
person have a life literally a life of a minute
(37:09):
or two on earth and die, and another's live for
one hundred years and die and there's everything in between,
And why do we Some people get born as a
male in a place where men are strong, or a
female where they're oppressed, or you're a person of color
in a place that you're oppressed or vice versa. You know,
(37:31):
or you're rich or you're poored. There's so much experience
to be done down here. It's difficult to do this
one time, and it's truly not fair is not the
word to use, but it's not fair. You come down
here at one time and life sucks. That's it. I
don't get to go back down and try to figure
it out, like you know, I want to try both
sides of the fence. So it seems like that does
that all make sense to you? Oh?
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Absolutely it does, and yeah, let me reput that. Through
the course of this book, I did not experience that
sense of rencarnation. I believe I hear what you're saying,
absolutely and totally. I believe exactly what you're saying. Let
me give you a there's a don't ask me what
part it was, but there was a portion where one
(38:13):
of the character was in a in a library. I
think any he was told that souls, if you so choose,
can you know you can evolve up to higher levels.
You have to. All the forgiveness that we talked about
helps you evolve. But if the soul chooses to stay
as they are.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
They are not.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
That's okay, but they are not denied the love of
the father. Father says, I'm okay with that. I still
love you. It's all good. But you can by choice
evolve through the levels of heaven by virtue of you
forgive others and all those things we talked about. So
(38:58):
I guess that it quits to reincarnation. It says, if
you want to go back, then.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Well there has to be there has to be a
system for the soul to work this stuff out, because
you can't. It can't be the one and done scenario.
It makes no sense even on a logical Everything else
makes sense. That you come back down to Earth, you
relive multiple lives, learn different lessons. You might have brought
in some ancestral uh karma that you got to deal with,
(39:29):
and there's that, and you're in all that stuff. All
makes sense to evolve to essentially become an ascended master
like Jesus or Buddha or Yogananda Richet or one of
these these walking ascended that become eventually ascended masters. And
then you choose to either go to the next level,
which we don't know what it is, or come stay
here and help other souls evolve to lift. That all
(39:53):
makes sense, but the one and done idea is very
difficult for me to wrap my head around because it's
the same. It's the same. The reason why when I
was in first grade in Catholic school and the nun
told me, well, there's a heaven and hell and if
you eat pork on Friday, you're going to hell, and
if you kill somebody, you're going to Hell. I go,
(40:13):
that doesn't seem right, like there's a there's something a
little off balance here, and I go, well, and then
later in life you're like, I have a kid. I
have kids like I would never, no matter what they did,
would never damn them for eternal dumbation in a hell
fire Like that makes If we wouldn't do that to
our own children, what would the source energy or God do?
(40:36):
It makes no, it just doesn't make any sense. We'll
be right back after a word from our sponsor, and
now back to the show.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
No, it doesn't. And I'll go to tell you I
recently watched You Wonderfully debut with Neil Donald Walsh. He
explained that, so you know, man, that is an absolute monster.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Oh I love Neil. Neil is wonderful and he walks
that path. He walks that path, he neils such an interesting,
interesting person because he's he he went through a lot
uh through his life, being homeless and all of that,
and this came to him and the way he ables
he's able to be able to late in life. By
the way, now he wasn't a kid when this happened,
(41:24):
and and he's been able to put this stuff out there.
He's he's a one. It's it's look, I have the
best job in the world. I get to talk to
people like yourselves and and and get exposed to ideas
and thoughts and bring all these things out to the
world so they can, you know, if they're looking for answers,
maybe they find it in this conversation, maybe they find
in another conversation. I'm here to facilitate these ideas to
(41:48):
come out into the world because they're needed now more
I think than ever. It's kind of like the break
it's kind of breakdown the old models of like if
you eat pork on Friday, you're done, you know, Like again,
I can't I can't grasp that, you know, Like that
doesn't make anything.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
It doesn't make any sense that.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
It made it might have made sense when when pork
wasn't cooked properly and people would die back about two
thousand years ago where this originated from, and they're like, okay,
you just got to write this in like that, don't
eat pork. Uh, And now that's what that's why people
don't need pork because there was a disease. And it's
a whole other thing. But yeah, but if you start
(42:26):
really becoming, you know, you really go into the spiritual
texts and you really start to analyze what the core
messages are of almost all religions, all major religions have
cores of love, of understanding, forgiveness, service, and if you
take all the dogma away. Yeah, these teachers is what
(42:49):
they were saying. So everything that you're talking about, you know,
these different levels of heaven that were different areas of
heaven that you're talking about some before, uh, but others
are new to me. And I cannot, by any stretch
say that I don't oh oh yeah, I know, how
have it works?
Speaker 4 (43:07):
Like?
Speaker 2 (43:07):
I get no one? Well, it's it's a quote from
a third comes to mind. Alex He said, I am
I'm not here to tell you what to believe. I'm
here to tell you what is true. That was that
was a direct quote from this character. And whether it
(43:29):
was channel or or whether where I saw it from,
God knows where it comes from. You know, the these kernels,
these things, with these lures.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
And Stephen you there.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
I think the ultimate, well as I can say, the
thing about what we're talking about, is not that.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
Oh, you fro you froze, for you froze for a second.
Let's start, Yeah, you froze for a second. Start, let's
go back a few sentences. How do I do that?
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Well, what I'm saying is the ultimate realization of the
things that they're talking about is not that we understand
heaven and what happens. It's how we manifest that understanding
in the body now on earth, so that we are
you and I and many others are able to make
(44:24):
life a better place, not just for ourselves but for
our children now in our family, our community, a nation,
our world, which is what you're doing, which is wonderful.
That's the ultimate realization of the knowledge that we learn
about the heavenly realms.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
I think, and I think and also for people listening,
because believe it or not, the word God and Heaven
have their trigger words at this point because of all,
you know, all the issues that people have had with
religious dogma over the years. So you're using the word
heaven as it could be the other side, it could
be across the veil, it could be you know, whatever
(45:03):
word you want to use, God, source, energy, love, all
that is. There's many words. These are just labels. So
I want people listening not to get caught up like, oh,
this is just Catholic propaganda. I'm like, nope, it is not,
by any stretch of the imagination. It is just a
different terminology that you know, and it makes sense because
you were raised Catholic and you were raised in that
(45:26):
and that, so that makes sense coming from the which
I brought up earlier in the conversation. I'm like, it's
very Christian Catholic icon icon of I can't iconographic. I
can't say the word icons that are being used in
this description. But I want people to understand that this
is the ideas behind this are not based in any religion, correct.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
Great, absolutely, absolutely correct. No. Spiritual Yes, I guess we
want to give it a term, but it's it's you
and I trying to understand lots with the gifts were
being given.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
On the other side, did you encounter any any ascended masters?
Did you encounter Jesus Buddha Alex?
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (46:13):
How could you leave this out? How could you leave
I was waiting boy to ask me.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
I got to tell you when when I was thinking,
I know nothing about it. So I'm seeing and hearing
all this, and I, like I said before, there was
no character development, no storyboard. I had no idea where
the story was going. Every time I sat, I had
no idea where it was going. To answer your question,
(46:42):
every time there was a character was introduced, like I
would ask what is this person's name? Straight away, I
would get it a far larger Samuel. They all came
straight away. Then there was this h angelic being that
(47:03):
they were introduced to that took them to the high levels.
And I can not begin to describe what I what
I saw, And I think I did poorly in the
book if himself deprecating. But when I asked what is
this person's name? I got nothing? And I remember I
(47:26):
asked three times what is his character's name? So in
the book I just called him the Master. That was
the best I could do. So I couldn't even begin
to say well, or Jesus, or probably a manifestation of
or that. I don't know. I know he was the
(47:50):
master of the heavenly realms, but I cannot tell you
his name. But he.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
Was not a he wasn't source energy, he wasn't God.
It was something else.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
Yes, he was. He oversaw. I don't want to say
the realm was. I don't know. I couldn't have even
describe how far that went. But he was an overseer.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
What allows he term administrator? He's a mid manistrator. He's
made management, is what you're saying, A.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
Prime minister or something. I remember distinctly. Three times I
asked what this master's name was, and I was not
given it. So I can't help you with that. I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
And did did the character run into his relatives or
other souls that he's incarnated with or oh?
Speaker 2 (48:51):
Yes, yes, he the character If you remember, he was
abused by clergy and he were stuck in this purgatory
and he got out all good. But then he met
up with his mother, who had not abused him physically
but didn't really nurture him as a fine parent, and
(49:14):
he met up with her after she passed, but just
to give you a description of that. He was standing
on top of a hill overlooking the mists and these
souls that were coming through the mists, and they were
robed in these colors I mentioned before. This person his
(49:34):
mother walked out and she was dressed in these Hessian
dark brown knee colors. And he approached her. Well, she
tried to go up to heavenly levels a pathway that
wasn't her own and wasn't able, And then he approached her,
(49:55):
and she was quite abusive to him, but he did
his He forgave her for what she had done to him.
So he met her and it was a relief of
burden for him.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
She couldn't accept that forgiveness and had to follow her
own pathway, but he, by virtue of his capacity to
forgive for what she had done, he was further relieved
of any any incumbents like the rock for which we attended.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
And was there any spirit guides or anything like that
that he came, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
Oh, alex. I was taken to a h a school,
a school for spirit guides where spirit GUIDs were actually
taught how to be spirit guides, which is kind of
cool if you think about it. I mean, uh, and
(51:06):
there again, I'm in this kind of lecture theater and
seeing there's all these souls there and they're being instructed
by a master guide to how to be uh spirit guide?
Sense what what what they did? Which is kind of cool.
And what's interesting what comes from that is we all,
(51:29):
without exception, have a spirit guide, all upon without exception. Uh.
I understand that our listening is a little bit intermittent,
but they are always there, is my understanding.
Speaker 1 (51:45):
And from my understanding also there's many other there's groups
with us at all times, the relative spirit guides, angels,
ascended masters, all depending on what your mission is in
this life, how much how much help you need to
walk the path that you're walking? Essentially, did you did
you find on the on the other side that there
(52:07):
was a plan to a life, a plan to a
soul coming down, meaning like there's a really you've come down.
You're like your character born to a mother who was
not very supportive and abusive verbally, then is going to
meet this clergyman who sexually abuses them, and like these
(52:28):
are lessons that this this soul needs to learn this
this well, this time around. If you if we're going
the recarnation route, but there's a plan to this whole thing.
It's not just like see what happens?
Speaker 2 (52:40):
Yeah, well I hope not right. I hope not to.
Speaker 1 (52:46):
That would be horrific.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
If it were all that easy. Just follow the plan.
We love to be a bit of place. I hear
you and I think you mentioned, I know you mentioned
before that we all have a divine and specific purpose
to fulfill. Uh. There. To me, there is absolutely no
(53:09):
doubt about that. Uh. And to me, it comes back
to the connection we find we uncover with the spirit.
In fact, it reminds me of one of the laws.
Let me give you another law. Law for a team.
Lead thou me on, what is that again?
Speaker 1 (53:28):
Lead thou me on what does that mean? I can't
I don't understand the whole word that. Say it again.
Lead thou me on, Okay, explain.
Speaker 2 (53:39):
So to me, that's so profound because what it opens
up the eye to say, the Father's there, He's there
with you us all the time. He's loved bounds. What
we need to do is to recognize that love, that
(54:00):
their force on all occasions. Ever we need to make
that choice to make that connection. And there were great
issues of trace and trust and faith. But by by
opening the heart to say, here, I am a big
developed Let's do what we need to do.
Speaker 1 (54:24):
To be to be open and to be open enough
for the guidance for the faith that there is someone
else or some you know, the universe, whatever you want
to call it, is guiding you on a path that
is for your best development. Whether it be a fun
path we're in not so fun path, it's irrelevant in
(54:45):
the scope of the soul's evolution. For us. We have
to deal with pain, suffering, happiness, joy, every gambit while
we're walking down this path. But at the end of
the day, and I've used this this analogy so many times,
but I think it's as perfect of an analogy for this.
It can be as a video game. We are the
characters in a video game. Our soul is the player
(55:07):
on the other side, and we keep going down levels
and we keep going around the corner that there's a
monster there. You got to do it again, keep going
and you're learning and getting experience as you go through
the game, and there is a path that is laid
out for you and the soul is guiding you through
that path, and sometimes a monster does surprise you and
you have to deal with it. But generally speaking, there's
(55:31):
a guidance there behind.
Speaker 2 (55:33):
The curriculum and what you do. You know, there's an
essence of courage. We're putting ourself out there for the
universe to throw the old brick bat well.
Speaker 1 (55:46):
There's no Yeah, I've said this on the show before.
I was scared to open the show up because I
had another I have two other very popular shows in
a different arena, and I decided to open up this
show because it was what I was you know, I
had to. I had to have a come to Jesus
conversation for lack of a vetterorio come to God conversation
and just say, Okay, I'm going to I'm going to
(56:07):
trust the process. I'm going to trust the path. I'm
in your hands. And the second I did that, the
doors opened up and swung open. And the show is
is doing what the show is doing right now, which
is growing exponentially and finding millions of people around the
world and in a very fast, fast, fast way. And
(56:28):
it's all because of faith and trust of like, okay,
I'm doing this is where I'm supposed to be, and
I've had such an enjoyable time talking to you know,
guests like yourself and diving into the deepest, the deepest
questions of that we are challenged with as humans, like
you know, why are we here? What is the purpose
of this? And trying to explain this whole life in
(56:53):
every aspect of it, whether it just be spiritual, it
could be financially, it could be physical, it could be
meant so all the things, all the gambits of life.
So you know, why wouldn't I enjoy this? I learned
so much by just talking to people on a daily basis,
so it's I'm very blessed, and then everybody else gets
the benefit from these conversations as I put it out there.
(57:15):
But yeah, it does take a sense of bravery to
be able to do this kind of work and put
yourself out there. But in today's world it's a lot
easier than it was five years ago, ten years ago,
absolutely twenty years ago. This conversation wouldn't have happened back then.
So but I do, but I do.
Speaker 2 (57:31):
Well.
Speaker 1 (57:32):
I have to ask you, though, when you did come
out with this, I'm assuming you came out of the closet.
Let's say, I'm assuming not everybody was open to these ideas. Family, friends, colleagues.
Are you Nutsteven? What are you doing?
Speaker 2 (57:49):
Like?
Speaker 1 (57:49):
How would you? How did you deal with that?
Speaker 2 (57:53):
It's a very interesting question, and it comes back to
what you're talking about there is you know you have
to It's a sense of sense of courage to say, Okay,
this is and it's almost as if now the gift
that I was given through this writing process, I have
to say, now, this is a message whose time has come.
(58:16):
So I'm just a message boy. You know, whether one
believes you know whatever, I've got to stand on the
on my pulpit and expouse what I saw because I
believe it's so profound and so important to do that.
Now others will make the judgment on what they read
(58:40):
and see and hear. That's all good. If if the
message that we get out or I get out changes
one life for the better, well I think I've done
my job. And the other that books I've got to
stop moving around Alex. The other the other reality is
that you know, I'm sixty six in a month. My
(59:06):
time on Earth is limited. So if I've got a
message to expand then it needs to be done pretty quick.
Speaker 1 (59:15):
I completely understand you, and you know at the end
of the day, and I've said this again, if the
message that you hear in these interviews, in these conversations
resonate with you, great, use that information and apply it
in your life. If it doesn't, discard it and move on.
It's as simple as that. There's no in between. It
(59:37):
helps you take it. If it doesn't, move on, this
is not for you. You may not be ready for it.
You might want to find it from another source. You
might need to hear it four or five or six
more times from five or six different people or different places,
or different ideas before certain things start to germinate inside
of you. And sometimes you hear an idea like this
(59:57):
and ten years later it starts to grow.
Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Isn't that interesting?
Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
It's but it's our job to put this out there
into the world, and get this information out into the
world and hopefully help people evolve and awaken to their
self realization, to the realization of who they truly are,
regardless of of of of all other crap that we
deal with town here, sorry, nod, We'll be right back
(01:00:28):
after a word from our sponsor and now back to
the show, just to to finish off.
Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
Perhaps there was a part in the book where Athara
is taken to a u a hill and there's a
great chasm before him, and on the other side of
this chasm is like they like the pearly gates, beautiful
heavenly gates taking him up to another level. And he
he looks at these gates and then looks into the
(01:01:02):
chairs and then if one more step and I'm in
the chasm, I'll fall down. And he looks behind him
and goes, I can't go back there. That was too
so he can't go forward, he can't go back. And
eventually what he understands is that he has to have faith,
so he takes the step forward, and of course he
(01:01:25):
leaned on his feet. There was no chosun there and
he moves across to the higher the higher levels. But
to me, that explains except what we're talking about.
Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
Well, that's very Indiana Jones and the last crusade, Uh
that he has to step over the chasm, and he's like,
I'm only a man of faith can manage. And he
steps in, and of course there was a bridge there,
but to the eye it was and so it's very
Indiana Johnes in that sense. But I'm gonna ask you
a few questions, Steven, that I ask all my friends.
All I guess, what is your definition of living a good.
Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
Life, fulfilling your purpose? Recognizing and fulfilling your purpose in life,
and then having the carriage to step across the breach
and getting it done? You know, there's not if I
if I expand it from my own particular purpose, I
(01:02:17):
don't want to come back. It's too hard here, So
let's get it brought this time so that we don't
have to.
Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
But that's right. And and that's just you thinking about
it here because you're in the middle of it. But
the second you get to the other side, you're like,
that was rough. But man, I got at least another
three or four lives I gotta go through, all right?
Who who else do I go down with? All right,
let's see how it goes. Who knows? Who knows? Look,
it's just like when you're playing a video game, you like,
I don't want to go back to that level of
(01:02:44):
game more experience because it's such a pain. It's gonna
take a few hours of my day and bo bapp
But I gotta go if I want to keep moving forward.
Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
So it's all right.
Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
Now, how do you define God?
Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
You know, there's a there's a a beautiful woman in
my life who who it is? Uh, happens to be
my mother and lots of people come to see her
for the grace that she gives them. And she she
answered this question h by saying that when she sees
(01:03:20):
people coming up her driveway, she sees God. Now I
don't espouse to be anywhere near her the elevation of
her levels, but that's how she explained it. If I
could get anywhere near that level, I'd be half happy.
Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
And what is the ultimate purpose of life?
Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
The love of every opportunity? Loves the bud.
Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
As the beautle say, loves are you need?
Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
That's about expands it doesn't expounds it.
Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
And where can people find out more about you and
the and the work that you do?
Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
I thank you, Alex. The book's not quite out the
public yet, not till May, but they can get onto
my website ww dot Stephen Chong dot com dot au
Stephen with a pH and they can drop me a line.
You know, ask a question all three and I'll do
my best answer and.
Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
Do you have any party messages for the audience.
Speaker 4 (01:04:23):
AH when they pick up the book and read, read
with their spiritual eyes, and then they will see the
laws of heaven that will make their life a much
more fulfilling place.
Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
Stephen, thank you so much for sharing your story with us,
and for the work that you're doing in the world
to help awaken as many souls as we can on
this planet. So I appreciate you, my friend.
Speaker 2 (01:04:52):
Thank you Alex much. Blessings to you too.
Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
Well. Thank Stephen so much for sharing his story with
all of U. I really appreciate it, Stephen. If you
want to get links to anything we spoke about in
this episode, head over to the show notes at next
levelsoul dot com Forward slash two zero one. Now, if
this conversation stirred something in you, there's more waiting. You
can listen to this episode completely commercial free on Next
(01:05:19):
level Soul TV's app where Soul meets streaming. Watch and
listen on Appleios, Android, Apple TV, Ruku, Android TV, Fire
TV LG and Samsung apps anytime anywhere. Begin your awakening
at next levelsoul dot TV. Thank you so much for listening.
As I always say, trust the journey. It's there to
(01:05:42):
teach you. I'll see you next time.
Welcome to the Next Level Soul podcast, where we ask
the big questions about life. Why are we here? Is
this all? There?
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Is?
Speaker 1 (00:10):
What is my soul's mission? We attempt to answer those
questions and more by bringing you raw and inspiring conversations
with some of the most fascinating and thought provoking guests
on the planet. Today, I am your host, Alex Ferrari. Now,
before we dive into today's conversation, I want to invite
you to experience something truly transformative. Next Level Soul TV
(00:34):
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(00:57):
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head over to next levelsoul dot tv and start streaming
(01:20):
your awakening. Now let's begin today's episode. Disclaimer. The views
and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the
guests and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions
of this show, its host, or any of the companies
they represent. I'd like to welcome to the show Steven, Chang,
Hia and Stephen very well.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Thank you, Alex, and thank you for having me go
on the program.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Thank you so much for waking up early. I know
you're on the other side of the world today. I
truly truly appreciate you waking up. You have some coffee,
so hopefully you won't doze off in the middle of
the interview, so I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I'm all good, nice.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Thank you so thank you for coming on the show
and sharing your story, your near death experience and what
happened to you on the other side. And my first
question to you is what was life like prior to
your near death experience?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
As it's very interesting because life has become more vivid
by virtue of what I've learned through the experience. Things
that are are not important get dropped away, and it's
like it's almost hard to describe. Yeah, the music and
the colors of life become more intense. So and it's
(02:34):
like you you keep pushed and redirected to what you
meant to be doing, you know, to fulfill your purpose.
That's become the ultimate part of the experience, I believe.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
No, So, were you a religious man prior to your
near death?
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Say that again?
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Were you religious?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
No? You could call them a spiritual if you like,
but no, no, there's no religion in me that I know.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
So you essentially were living a fairly normal, everyday life
prior to your near death experience.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah, And like any good sixty year old,
I did something stupid and fell off a roof.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
As our ego listen, our mind thinks were twenty, but
our body quickly reminds us that we're not. Yeah, to
be sure, I mean for people listening and who are
younger than both you and I. You know, sometimes I've like, oh, yeah,
I could run over there, and I could jump over that,
and then all of a sudden, the knees start to
(03:37):
ache for some reason, and the ankles are like, remember
what happened when you were twenty two and you were
playing football and your ankle got torn up. There that
it's back?
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Is that back?
Speaker 1 (03:49):
The mind is always younger than the body for whatever. Yeah,
absolutely about tell me what happened. So tell me what happened.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Well, what happened. I was, you know, I was up
planning it as you do, you up cleaning out the gutters.
And it was a Saturday morning and normally my wife
is absent, going shopping or doing things. And the latter slip.
And if you can see behind me, you have these
louver windows. So the ladder went through all of these
(04:17):
louvers like glass everywhere, and I'm about five meters off
the ground here. So I'm in a screaming heap, calling
out my wife's name, and I couldn't feel anything. I
couldn't feel my body. Really, I thought, I'm in trouble.
I'm in trouble.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
But here we stand.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
You know, the paramedics came and you know, thanks to
the gods that we're there. On the day, I'm okay,
things work nothing. I fractured my neck, but through the
course of rehabilitation all as well.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
So when did you have your near death experience?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
What happened Alex. The experience came consequential of the accident.
So during rehabilitation, I had this, the title of the book,
going through my head and just the backtrack, I'd shut
down you and I've written five books in screenplaces and things,
(05:24):
so I shut down. I'm not doing anymore. But this
title was pounding in my head, you know, whilst I'm
lying on the couch in this rehabilitation, and I said,
eventually I'm given in. I said, okay, to the universe,
if you want me to write this scene you I
(05:46):
have no idea, I don't know. You want me to
write about the afterlof what do I know? I'm not
there yet. But I bought in the process and said, okay,
do you want me to write it? I'm in. And
from that point it was like being not like the term,
(06:09):
but given a superpower. As soon as I sat down
to write again, I had no storyline, no characters, no nothing.
It was like was there. It was, It was a cascade.
I sat down to write, and I saw these things
and heard the music and saw the colors, and it
(06:29):
was like taking dictation, you know. All I all I
had to do was kind of interpret what I saw
and therein lies the majesty of the experience, because I say,
previously I shut down and I'm not doing anymore. But
it was all there waiting for me, which was the
greatest gift.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
So then what was it? So tell us the story
of the other side.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Oh my goodness, where do I start? That was the
first person narrative. So I'm seeing through the eyes of
this character in heaven, and the character himself in life
was a young man who was abused under the auspices
of the clergy, and he was stuck in this purgatory
(07:19):
by virtue of the guilt and the shame and the
anger that he felt. He was stuck there. And this
is what I'm seeing. He's there and doesn't know how
to get out. And the story evolves with the Bishop
of the Sea, who's passed under, who's in sousions. This
(07:40):
young man was abused. They come together in relationships, and
by virtue of the forgiveness that they are able to
show one another, they then moved through the different levels
of heaven. So through through this character's eyes, he was
taken through the different levels of heaven. But I'm seeing
(08:03):
and trying to interpret to the best of my abilities.
What this character was experiencing.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
So what's so, let's go for the ride. What happened?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Well, my goodness, where do I start? Let me let
me give you any The first experience that comes to
mind is the healing arena. Ah. Now, this character these
name is Afar. He was taken to this. If you
can imagine a huge colosseum and in and in the
(08:39):
like the in the audience, there's all these beautiful souls,
colors and music and they're all chanting the old sound.
So there's all this beautiful spirit around and in the
middle of this arena with these lounge shares recliner chairs,
and so I'm just I'm just right. I'm seeing this
(09:00):
and writing in to the urnic escorted by these seraphim
beautiful little angels. Were these this disease discrep crepid souls
and they were put on these lounge shears and then
(09:22):
in walked with this angelic beans to describe him. And
then he he started to manipulate the energy and like
in a magnetic ball, and from the magnetic ball shot
down this these streams of light into these souls that
(09:45):
were reclined on the on the couches. From there you know,
once he'd finished his his work, he these souls were
totally renewed, so they were, you know, whatever was their
ailments were before, they were totally renewed.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
But the interesting thing about that, Alex was what I
what I learned afterwards, was souls that caused injury by
others on Earth do not bear the consequences of those actions,
so that they are relieved of those burdens that are
caused by others, if that makes sense, not what they
(10:42):
did to themselves or not what they not. I if
I did a bad thing to you, you would not.
You might be suffering under the weight of that action,
but you do not suffer the consequences of that action.
So you relieve that those burdens. And that is what
that magnetic coral was I understand was all about. Again,
(11:06):
whether you believe it or not is I don't know.
But that's what I saw and that's what I interpreted.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
So let me let me ask you. So, so you
didn't have an actual near death experience in the way
that is traditional.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
I wouldn't call it traditional note, but it was certainly
I guess you'd call it a spiritually awakening experience, no
doubt about that.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Okay. So then so when you when you were told
about this, this this book idea, it started to come in.
You were almost channeling this, uh this stuff you got,
you got glimpses into the other side at least.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Yes, I don't like the term channeling. Doesn't sit well
with me. Sure fair enough, Yeah, because I'm just a
regular dude. You know, I'm not a medium or anything
like that. I cannot deny what I experienced, and it
because it was real and it was a gift, and
(12:02):
I just had to write what I saw.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Well, let me ask you that, did at any point
in this experience that someone explained to you or anything
explained to you why you were the one chosen for this?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
No, no, I can't say that. No, I don't know.
But I got to tell you what was it? What's interesting,
Probably three or four months after writing the book, and
you know, you do all the editing and read it
a hundred times, I'm missing something here and it was
(12:34):
like a revelation. And so I read through the book again,
probably for the nd of time. But what I now understand,
it's not just a story and the description of what
heaven is like it describes. Inherent in the text are
(12:54):
laws of heaven and earth, laws that underpin h how
did experiences happen in heaven and consequential of our actions
on earth? And I've written I found fourteen or fifteen far.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
So what are some of these? And so one of these?
What are some?
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Let me give you a couple. Let me read you
wanted to. There's one. What you have cause to effect
in your fellow man is what declares your place in heaven.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Mhmm.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Let me give you another one. The judgment of heaven
is neither vindictive or eternal, but probationary and remedial.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
It takes a while to wrap your head around that
sort of stuff. I mean, there's I mean, the one
we all know is what you show so share your
group that the great texts tell us that, and that's
one of the principal ones. But I mean there's a
whole heap of others. Forgiveness is at the heart of
our ultimate realization. There's a lot.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
More so, so, where does so where does the reincarnation
or people coming in and out of lives?
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Does that play into what you saw.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
It's a good question. The answer is no, I didn't.
I mean, you know, I've got particular beliefs. But in
the course of the text, in the course of the writing,
there was no mention of reincarnation.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
No, but there was methods of souls doing going through
a process. And well, let me ask you, yes, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Uh, Well, let me put it this way. The the
the levels of heaven are experienced. Ah, they're an exploration,
so there are never there. It's an evolutionary process. So
if we look at that second law, the out of
heaven is neither vindictive or eternal, but probation in the remedial.
(15:04):
That means that in heaven it is completely You're continuing
to evolve through the evolutionary process. So whether that's reincasion,
reincarnation or not, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
So how many levels are there in heaven?
Speaker 2 (15:20):
I would say that I experienced probably four or five.
I was taken to the nether regions, So what are
another regions? Let me try and describe the best of
my ability. It was taken through a like a landscape
(15:43):
that was denuded by fire. So that was and the
smell was awful. And remember I'm seeing and smelling and
hearing all of this, and then taken through this immense portal.
And remember the character is guided by an angelic being,
so he's not on his own. He's drinken there. Now,
(16:03):
what I saw were these huge vortices, vortices of power
in which these souls were entrapped. Uh and standing around
these vortices of power were these angelic beings. And the
(16:24):
way it was described to me, and what I saw
was these souls are trapped by choice. It's not judgment,
trapped by virtue of It's called them the seven Deadly sins,
the gluttony, the wrath, the lust, that sort of things.
So they're trapped by this choice. And these angelic beings
(16:45):
were standing there waiting for the first signs of redemption.
So as soon as they were able to escape from
that point of choice, they were taken away to some
other area. But what was explained is that it was
not God's judgment, it was choice. Were these souls were
(17:11):
entrapped by choice. So that was if that doesn't turn
knowing that, if that doesn't turn one away from choices,
I don't know what will. But then I was there,
I don't know. Again, I was taken in the nether regions,
and then to even the higher levels. Right at the
(17:32):
end of the book, I was taken up to these
these and angelic areas with grand views of the music
and the love and the colors that were embedded through
through all of our lives.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
There is no from my understanding, there is no language
on the other end, there's altelepathy, almost instant in knowledge.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
It's a very good question. Yes, yes, through the writing
I was, of course there were. There was a dialogue
as described in the book. But it was a process
of thought. So thought has power, yes, and thought enabled transportation,
so the adept could transport themselves from one area to
(18:17):
the other just by the power of thought. Yes, that
was inherent.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
So and was there an overwhelming feeling of love.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Ah Alex, Yes, let me give you an example of that.
The one that comes to mind was this author character
was taken into a hall for children. And remember I'm
seeing through his eyes, So I'm walking into this beautiful building,
(18:50):
and I can even now feel the sense of overwhelming
love that was in this place. And this place was
the called the hall for children. So children that have
left the earthplane early totally loved and nurtured by the Divine,
(19:11):
by the Father and his angels. I can barely describe
for the love that I felt as soon as I
walked into this building was like a warm blanket on
a cold day. But the love all children, irrespective, irrespective
whether they're ties to parental responsibilities are strong or whether
(19:35):
those ties are a seven, all are loved by the
Father without exception.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
So there's so so what I'm hearing is no judgment,
complete love that souls. It's choice is a very big thing.
Freedom of free will seems to be a very big
thing there that we choose to come down here to
(20:05):
experience this, this realm. If you will too, is it
a to learn lessons? We'll be right back after a
word from our sponsor and now back to the show.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Yes, I understand the world and bee with the divine purpose.
You know we we are, we are a tear drop
from the Father. We all have a divine purpose to feel.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
That to me?
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Is it is an absolute given?
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Well, let me ask you a question. Everything that we've
been talking about so far, there's some very big, some
very broad ideas, but there's some ideas that are very
leaning into Christianity and Catholicism or those kind of iconic
images of like the nether Regions and the obviously, you
know there's other obviously other religions that talk about those
(21:01):
kind of things. But you know, I'm just curious for
like other people who have Buddhist beliefs or other kind
of beliefs that don't lean themselves into this iconography. What
did you what is your feeling on that.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
It's a good question, and let me let me answer
that by virtue of prey recent experience, I lost a
very dear friend a couple of weeks ago. Uh h,
and he was uh he was a very staunch Catholic,
a beautiful man, and and he yeah, I challenged his
(21:45):
systems of belief through through you know, the things that
we're talking about now. But ultimately with these passing now,
I understand and I feel a hole in the heart
through the grief of loss of my best friend. But
I know it is even with the strong sense of
(22:06):
religious Catholicism that he believed in, he is in the
most beautiful places by virtue, not so much perhaps because
of his religious religiosity, but by virtue of what he's
done for others. You know, he served his community with
much love, so with the basis of religion in his soul.
(22:29):
But it's what he's what he did for the community,
which was a great thing. So I know he's exolved
to be the high levels of the heavenly tears.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
So it's not as much about the club or the
group that you're involved with. It's your actions and what
you do. Is that what makes sense? In other words,
because there's so much that divisive, like my religion is
better than your religion. I am the chosen people. You
poor thing. You're not chosen, then you're gonna go to hell.
(23:02):
You know, these kind of ideas that have been thrown
around for millennia at this point in the game. But
I like the idea that it is not the group
that you're associated with. Basically, you were born into You're
born into your religion. You don't, generally speaking, unless you
pick it up later in life, but you're born into
the religion that you are raised with because you're born
(23:22):
with it. You don't come in as a Catholic, you
don't come in as a Jew, you don't come in
as a Muslim or Hindu. You are taught these ideas
by your parents and society around you. But it's not
about the religious group that you're in. It's about what
you do for your fellow man. The service that you provide,
the deeds that you do are much more or those
(23:45):
are the only thing that really count. But the basis
of religion brought him down a certain world because there
are certain ideas in Catholicism that are really good. There's
a lot of dogma in there as well, not so good,
but that's the set of every religion.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Does that make sense, absolutely, Alex, I think you're absolutely
right on the money with that. And let's look at
that through the prison of a couple of these other laws. Uhh,
where did it go? Uh? In heaven the emperor wears
no clothes mm hm. So to me that this perfectly
(24:20):
describes what you're saying. It doesn't matter whether you're wearing
the robes of a bishop or a pauper. You in
in heaven you are. It's what you have done to
your fellow man that causes your place in heaven. That
determines your place in heaven. So you know, if i've
if I you know, you could take a look at
(24:42):
some of these world leaders now, so the presidents or whatever.
But when they confront themselves in in the heavenly realms,
they you don't wear this status. Is what you've done
to your fellow man, because to your place in heaven.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
That makes that is, it makes a lot of sense,
because it really doesn't. At the end of the day,
like they say, you can't there's no U hauls attached
to the horses. Generally, you can't take it with you.
It doesn't. It doesn't matter how many billions of dollars
you've done, or what have you done with what you
(25:19):
have been given? What have you done with the platforms
you've been out or even not so grandiose, what have
you done in your own community? What have you done
within your own family to help others in your family?
It's something about being of service, being of help. And
what part does forgiveness play in the interesting?
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Yeah, let me give you another lull around that. Where
did the forgiveness one go? Forgiveness is at the heart
of your ultimate realization. That's I think it's a hard
one repeater.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
And let's unpack that for a second. Say that sentence again.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Forgiveness at the heart of your ultimate realization.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
So let's use the word realization is the word I wanted,
because that's that's the important word there, forgiveness in the
word realization, and you know, you know Yogi's like Yogananda
spoke about self realization and being able to really to
realize who you truly are in tear that you are
a part of you are God, you are part of
the source energy, whatever that you know, we call it God,
(26:31):
call it source, call it whatever you want to call it.
And is realizing that and for you cannot ascend to
that level without forgiveness and without service.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Yes, absolutely, Alex, And that to me was inherent in
this character Athahles aggression through the heavenly realms. He would
not have been able to see what he saw and
taken to the places that he was taken to without
him for giving others for the things that had have
(27:08):
happened to you.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
And also not only forgiving others, forgiving yourself.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
I mean, I think it's I think that's the we're
so much more brutal with ourselves than we are with
others in many in many many ways. And I think
the biggest forgiveness is to forgive ourselves for mistakes or
things that we perceive to be mistakes or things like that.
You know, at the end of the day, it doesn't
matter these these things that we are. We're so caught
up with things here on this plane that at the
(27:38):
end it doesn't it doesn't matter. Like when you're on
your deathbed, are you really going to worry about that
one thing that you did when you were in high school?
Speaker 4 (27:46):
Really?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Is that?
Speaker 1 (27:49):
But that one thing could have haunted you for thirty
or forty years. If not, you maybe your entire life
because you haven't forgiven yourself orself something that you perceived
to have done wrong.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
You know absolutely, And you know we've been told by
virtue of religion. We've been told so often that we
are sinners, yes, that are sacred, and there in lies
another law. Let me just find that one. To there
we go. To know that you are is not to
see new things in you, but to see yourself as
(28:23):
you really are.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
To remember, yeah, yeah, to remember, to realize who you
truly are, a realization of who this this this you are,
not this meat meat suit walking around. You are more
more powerful. Jesus said these things, you know, Buddha said,
these things, these are these are not revolutionary ideas. Truth
(28:46):
is truth, regardless of where it comes from. And that's
the one thing I'm very very interested about when I
do this show is I realized that so many of
the people that I bring on the show, very similar
ideas are brought through different packaging similar ideas because truth
is truth, and you might not want to listen. You
(29:06):
might not connect with me or you in this conversation,
but you might connect with somebody else on another show.
You might connect with the book, you might connect with
the TV show that's giving you the same idea, you
might connect with the movie that gives you the idea.
But the truth is the truth regardless.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Yes, there you go. An interesting alex I think, and
I've pondered often about this distinction between you know, we
talked about experiences and all this sort of thing, and
why I was given this book in the form of story,
because what we know is that when we talk about
these things, people, when they're entital to burdens a proof,
(29:45):
you know, they want to know where this stuff comes from.
And I've pondered often why always given not the messages
but the story. And what I understand now is exactly
what saying is that when you you know, when you
hear of others experiences in the near death field. It's
(30:08):
rather objective, you know, you're seeing, well that other person
had the experience, or isn't that amazing, which which it
is denying.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
But when we read these stories, we can we delve
into the levels, you know, beyond the literal, whether you
believe it or not, and down into the metaphysical, where uh,
you know, these these laws, universal laws are expelled. But
even deep we go into the mystical. When you read
(30:48):
a piece or a chapter or something and you go, oh,
I got that. That's that's the truth, that's my truth.
And there thereafter you obviously live that truth. But through
the medium of store, through the eyes of this character,
we are able to read and discover our own truth,
(31:10):
which I think is the magical part of it.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
So what are some other levels that the character went through.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Oh, let me give you another one. The abode of
reunion comes to mind. And again remember I make no
judgments on any of this. I just write what I
saw the abode of reunion was what I saw was
(31:37):
this plane where all these souls were standing, and they
were in communion with other souls and some of the souls,
and these silver cords stretching over the mists, the mist
between heaven and mirth. I what's this and what it
(31:58):
was explained is when when we sleep, when we stood
in the body, sleep, we are able to soul is
able to go to this abode of reunion and meet
up with loved ones that are able to guide and
(32:19):
give us advice. If that makes sense, So then that soul,
you know, when when the body wakes up, you have
the soul slips back in itself. But that that that
what I understand is that cord, that silver cord of attachment,
was the love between we on earth and that soul
(32:44):
in heaven. That was it. So if we're burdened by
something or put them or whatever, where the soul is
able to get advice from those on the other side
through that.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
It's it's so funny you say these things, because these
are things I've heard before and many narrative experiences. The
silver cord is even in ancient spiritual texts they talk
about a silver cord connecting the soul to the body.
When we sleep, we're able to leave the body. Dreams
are interpretations sometimes guidance for you. I wish they would
(33:20):
be more straightforward with the situation and that and that, like, oh,
there's a dog in my bed eating ice cream? What
does that mean? I can you just tell me what
the hell this is as opposed to me trying to
figure out why the dog's eating ice cream in my
bed when I was a kid, like, I don't understand
these kind of these kind of dreams that we get
(33:41):
is fascinating to me. So that's a really interesting place.
I mean, you have to tell me a couple more
because this is all fascinating to me.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Okay, well, was.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
There a life Was there a place where life reviews happened?
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Oh yes, oh yes, those myths I talked about. What
I understand is they that that was like a purgatree.
So when we pass, we pass through these mists where
our life is reviewed, and it's not you know that
God sitting on his throne saying you are a bad day,
(34:19):
you are a bad dude. You're looking in the mirror
of reflection and what you have done to cause to
effect in another. But the interesting thing what I saw
from that is when we when the souls exit these mists,
if you will. They were robed in these and the
(34:42):
best I could describe and is like you're the aura
you carry, but there's beautiful like some were beautiful robes
in all the colors I can I cannot describe to
you properly. But so some souls and you can't rand
you can't take this garment off. It's part of you.
(35:04):
And some souls were coming through these myths with these
beautiful colors, but others were coming through in light passion,
dark brown things. But what these colors designate is the
pathway that you then follow. What the grand Master said
(35:28):
to us, I go to prepare a house for you,
said in John fourteen the same thing. So the colors
of the robes designate the pathway that you then follow.
So it's kind off, you're a really spiritual good guy
or person, you up your go, But there were others
that would had to follow, had to follow. There was
(35:51):
a character latter around the book that tried to move
up thought these persons. You know, she was her station
was higher than she thought, and she could not breach
those higher levels.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
So it's interesting because I understand what it is. It
sounds from listening to you that there's a judgment play here,
but from my under meaning, someone's judging you like you
can't move forward. But it seems also that it's something
that the soul itself is trying to like, Okay, I
have to go down to this level, and this is
(36:25):
where I'm at right now, because there's levels of evolution
of the soul. But with that said, then without reincarnation,
there is it's difficult to understand how you can continue
to develop and evolve and go back and forth. Because
if you come into one life, just one thing, and
you live for one day and you go up, not
(36:48):
a lot of stuff you could do. So the concept
of the concept of reincarnation, which has been talked about forever,
it makes a lot of sense to me. If we
are to believe this idea of souls evolving so learning,
if we're here to learn lessons, then why does one
person have a life literally a life of a minute
(37:09):
or two on earth and die, and another's live for
one hundred years and die and there's everything in between,
And why do we Some people get born as a
male in a place where men are strong, or a
female where they're oppressed, or you're a person of color
in a place that you're oppressed or vice versa. You know,
(37:31):
or you're rich or you're poored. There's so much experience
to be done down here. It's difficult to do this
one time, and it's truly not fair is not the
word to use, but it's not fair. You come down
here at one time and life sucks. That's it. I
don't get to go back down and try to figure
it out, like you know, I want to try both
sides of the fence. So it seems like that does
that all make sense to you? Oh?
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Absolutely it does, and yeah, let me reput that. Through
the course of this book, I did not experience that
sense of rencarnation. I believe I hear what you're saying,
absolutely and totally. I believe exactly what you're saying. Let
me give you a there's a don't ask me what
part it was, but there was a portion where one
(38:13):
of the character was in a in a library. I
think any he was told that souls, if you so choose,
can you know you can evolve up to higher levels.
You have to. All the forgiveness that we talked about
helps you evolve. But if the soul chooses to stay
as they are.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
They are not.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
That's okay, but they are not denied the love of
the father. Father says, I'm okay with that. I still
love you. It's all good. But you can by choice
evolve through the levels of heaven by virtue of you
forgive others and all those things we talked about. So
(38:58):
I guess that it quits to reincarnation. It says, if
you want to go back, then.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Well there has to be there has to be a
system for the soul to work this stuff out, because
you can't. It can't be the one and done scenario.
It makes no sense even on a logical Everything else
makes sense. That you come back down to Earth, you
relive multiple lives, learn different lessons. You might have brought
in some ancestral uh karma that you got to deal with,
(39:29):
and there's that, and you're in all that stuff. All
makes sense to evolve to essentially become an ascended master
like Jesus or Buddha or Yogananda Richet or one of
these these walking ascended that become eventually ascended masters. And
then you choose to either go to the next level,
which we don't know what it is, or come stay
here and help other souls evolve to lift. That all
(39:53):
makes sense, but the one and done idea is very
difficult for me to wrap my head around because it's
the same. It's the same. The reason why when I
was in first grade in Catholic school and the nun
told me, well, there's a heaven and hell and if
you eat pork on Friday, you're going to hell, and
if you kill somebody, you're going to Hell. I go,
(40:13):
that doesn't seem right, like there's a there's something a
little off balance here, and I go, well, and then
later in life you're like, I have a kid. I
have kids like I would never, no matter what they did,
would never damn them for eternal dumbation in a hell
fire Like that makes If we wouldn't do that to
our own children, what would the source energy or God do?
(40:36):
It makes no, it just doesn't make any sense. We'll
be right back after a word from our sponsor, and
now back to the show.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
No, it doesn't. And I'll go to tell you I
recently watched You Wonderfully debut with Neil Donald Walsh. He
explained that, so you know, man, that is an absolute monster.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Oh I love Neil. Neil is wonderful and he walks
that path. He walks that path, he neils such an interesting,
interesting person because he's he he went through a lot
uh through his life, being homeless and all of that,
and this came to him and the way he ables
he's able to be able to late in life. By
the way, now he wasn't a kid when this happened,
(41:24):
and and he's been able to put this stuff out there.
He's he's a one. It's it's look, I have the
best job in the world. I get to talk to
people like yourselves and and and get exposed to ideas
and thoughts and bring all these things out to the
world so they can, you know, if they're looking for answers,
maybe they find it in this conversation, maybe they find
in another conversation. I'm here to facilitate these ideas to
(41:48):
come out into the world because they're needed now more
I think than ever. It's kind of like the break
it's kind of breakdown the old models of like if
you eat pork on Friday, you're done, you know, Like again,
I can't I can't grasp that, you know, Like that
doesn't make anything.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
It doesn't make any sense that.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
It made it might have made sense when when pork
wasn't cooked properly and people would die back about two
thousand years ago where this originated from, and they're like, okay,
you just got to write this in like that, don't
eat pork. Uh, And now that's what that's why people
don't need pork because there was a disease. And it's
a whole other thing. But yeah, but if you start
(42:26):
really becoming, you know, you really go into the spiritual
texts and you really start to analyze what the core
messages are of almost all religions, all major religions have
cores of love, of understanding, forgiveness, service, and if you
take all the dogma away. Yeah, these teachers is what
(42:49):
they were saying. So everything that you're talking about, you know,
these different levels of heaven that were different areas of
heaven that you're talking about some before, uh, but others
are new to me. And I cannot, by any stretch
say that I don't oh oh yeah, I know, how
have it works?
Speaker 4 (43:07):
Like?
Speaker 2 (43:07):
I get no one? Well, it's it's a quote from
a third comes to mind. Alex He said, I am
I'm not here to tell you what to believe. I'm
here to tell you what is true. That was that
was a direct quote from this character. And whether it
(43:29):
was channel or or whether where I saw it from,
God knows where it comes from. You know, the these kernels,
these things, with these lures.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
And Stephen you there.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
I think the ultimate, well as I can say, the
thing about what we're talking about, is not that.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
Oh, you fro you froze, for you froze for a second.
Let's start, Yeah, you froze for a second. Start, let's
go back a few sentences. How do I do that?
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Well, what I'm saying is the ultimate realization of the
things that they're talking about is not that we understand
heaven and what happens. It's how we manifest that understanding
in the body now on earth, so that we are
you and I and many others are able to make
(44:24):
life a better place, not just for ourselves but for
our children now in our family, our community, a nation,
our world, which is what you're doing, which is wonderful.
That's the ultimate realization of the knowledge that we learn
about the heavenly realms.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
I think, and I think and also for people listening,
because believe it or not, the word God and Heaven
have their trigger words at this point because of all,
you know, all the issues that people have had with
religious dogma over the years. So you're using the word
heaven as it could be the other side, it could
be across the veil, it could be you know, whatever
(45:03):
word you want to use, God, source, energy, love, all
that is. There's many words. These are just labels. So
I want people listening not to get caught up like, oh,
this is just Catholic propaganda. I'm like, nope, it is not,
by any stretch of the imagination. It is just a
different terminology that you know, and it makes sense because
you were raised Catholic and you were raised in that
(45:26):
and that, so that makes sense coming from the which
I brought up earlier in the conversation. I'm like, it's
very Christian Catholic icon icon of I can't iconographic. I
can't say the word icons that are being used in
this description. But I want people to understand that this
is the ideas behind this are not based in any religion, correct.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
Great, absolutely, absolutely correct. No. Spiritual Yes, I guess we
want to give it a term, but it's it's you
and I trying to understand lots with the gifts were
being given.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
On the other side, did you encounter any any ascended masters?
Did you encounter Jesus Buddha Alex?
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (46:13):
How could you leave this out? How could you leave
I was waiting boy to ask me.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
I got to tell you when when I was thinking,
I know nothing about it. So I'm seeing and hearing
all this, and I, like I said before, there was
no character development, no storyboard. I had no idea where
the story was going. Every time I sat, I had
no idea where it was going. To answer your question,
(46:42):
every time there was a character was introduced, like I
would ask what is this person's name? Straight away, I
would get it a far larger Samuel. They all came
straight away. Then there was this h angelic being that
(47:03):
they were introduced to that took them to the high levels.
And I can not begin to describe what I what
I saw, And I think I did poorly in the
book if himself deprecating. But when I asked what is
this person's name? I got nothing? And I remember I
(47:26):
asked three times what is his character's name? So in
the book I just called him the Master. That was
the best I could do. So I couldn't even begin
to say well, or Jesus, or probably a manifestation of
or that. I don't know. I know he was the
(47:50):
master of the heavenly realms, but I cannot tell you
his name. But he.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
Was not a he wasn't source energy, he wasn't God.
It was something else.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
Yes, he was. He oversaw. I don't want to say
the realm was. I don't know. I couldn't have even
describe how far that went. But he was an overseer.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
What allows he term administrator? He's a mid manistrator. He's
made management, is what you're saying, A.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
Prime minister or something. I remember distinctly. Three times I
asked what this master's name was, and I was not
given it. So I can't help you with that. I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
And did did the character run into his relatives or
other souls that he's incarnated with or oh?
Speaker 2 (48:51):
Yes, yes, he the character If you remember, he was
abused by clergy and he were stuck in this purgatory
and he got out all good. But then he met
up with his mother, who had not abused him physically
but didn't really nurture him as a fine parent, and
(49:14):
he met up with her after she passed, but just
to give you a description of that. He was standing
on top of a hill overlooking the mists and these
souls that were coming through the mists, and they were
robed in these colors I mentioned before. This person his
(49:34):
mother walked out and she was dressed in these Hessian
dark brown knee colors. And he approached her. Well, she
tried to go up to heavenly levels a pathway that
wasn't her own and wasn't able, And then he approached her,
(49:55):
and she was quite abusive to him, but he did
his He forgave her for what she had done to him.
So he met her and it was a relief of
burden for him.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
She couldn't accept that forgiveness and had to follow her
own pathway, but he, by virtue of his capacity to
forgive for what she had done, he was further relieved
of any any incumbents like the rock for which we attended.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
And was there any spirit guides or anything like that
that he came, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
Oh, alex. I was taken to a h a school,
a school for spirit guides where spirit GUIDs were actually
taught how to be spirit guides, which is kind of
cool if you think about it. I mean, uh, and
(51:06):
there again, I'm in this kind of lecture theater and
seeing there's all these souls there and they're being instructed
by a master guide to how to be uh spirit guide?
Sense what what what they did? Which is kind of cool.
And what's interesting what comes from that is we all,
(51:29):
without exception, have a spirit guide, all upon without exception. Uh.
I understand that our listening is a little bit intermittent,
but they are always there, is my understanding.
Speaker 1 (51:45):
And from my understanding also there's many other there's groups
with us at all times, the relative spirit guides, angels,
ascended masters, all depending on what your mission is in
this life, how much how much help you need to
walk the path that you're walking? Essentially, did you did
you find on the on the other side that there
(52:07):
was a plan to a life, a plan to a
soul coming down, meaning like there's a really you've come down.
You're like your character born to a mother who was
not very supportive and abusive verbally, then is going to
meet this clergyman who sexually abuses them, and like these
(52:28):
are lessons that this this soul needs to learn this
this well, this time around. If you if we're going
the recarnation route, but there's a plan to this whole thing.
It's not just like see what happens?
Speaker 2 (52:40):
Yeah, well I hope not right. I hope not to.
Speaker 1 (52:46):
That would be horrific.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
If it were all that easy. Just follow the plan.
We love to be a bit of place. I hear
you and I think you mentioned, I know you mentioned
before that we all have a divine and specific purpose
to fulfill. Uh. There. To me, there is absolutely no
(53:09):
doubt about that. Uh. And to me, it comes back
to the connection we find we uncover with the spirit.
In fact, it reminds me of one of the laws.
Let me give you another law. Law for a team.
Lead thou me on, what is that again?
Speaker 1 (53:28):
Lead thou me on what does that mean? I can't
I don't understand the whole word that. Say it again.
Lead thou me on, Okay, explain.
Speaker 2 (53:39):
So to me, that's so profound because what it opens
up the eye to say, the Father's there, He's there
with you us all the time. He's loved bounds. What
we need to do is to recognize that love, that
(54:00):
their force on all occasions. Ever we need to make
that choice to make that connection. And there were great
issues of trace and trust and faith. But by by
opening the heart to say, here, I am a big
developed Let's do what we need to do.
Speaker 1 (54:24):
To be to be open and to be open enough
for the guidance for the faith that there is someone
else or some you know, the universe, whatever you want
to call it, is guiding you on a path that
is for your best development. Whether it be a fun
path we're in not so fun path, it's irrelevant in
(54:45):
the scope of the soul's evolution. For us. We have
to deal with pain, suffering, happiness, joy, every gambit while
we're walking down this path. But at the end of
the day, and I've used this this analogy so many times,
but I think it's as perfect of an analogy for this.
It can be as a video game. We are the
characters in a video game. Our soul is the player
(55:07):
on the other side, and we keep going down levels
and we keep going around the corner that there's a
monster there. You got to do it again, keep going
and you're learning and getting experience as you go through
the game, and there is a path that is laid
out for you and the soul is guiding you through
that path, and sometimes a monster does surprise you and
you have to deal with it. But generally speaking, there's
(55:31):
a guidance there behind.
Speaker 2 (55:33):
The curriculum and what you do. You know, there's an
essence of courage. We're putting ourself out there for the
universe to throw the old brick bat well.
Speaker 1 (55:46):
There's no Yeah, I've said this on the show before.
I was scared to open the show up because I
had another I have two other very popular shows in
a different arena, and I decided to open up this
show because it was what I was you know, I
had to. I had to have a come to Jesus
conversation for lack of a vetterorio come to God conversation
and just say, Okay, I'm going to I'm going to
(56:07):
trust the process. I'm going to trust the path. I'm
in your hands. And the second I did that, the
doors opened up and swung open. And the show is
is doing what the show is doing right now, which
is growing exponentially and finding millions of people around the
world and in a very fast, fast, fast way. And
(56:28):
it's all because of faith and trust of like, okay,
I'm doing this is where I'm supposed to be, and
I've had such an enjoyable time talking to you know,
guests like yourself and diving into the deepest, the deepest
questions of that we are challenged with as humans, like
you know, why are we here? What is the purpose
of this? And trying to explain this whole life in
(56:53):
every aspect of it, whether it just be spiritual, it
could be financially, it could be physical, it could be
meant so all the things, all the gambits of life.
So you know, why wouldn't I enjoy this? I learned
so much by just talking to people on a daily basis,
so it's I'm very blessed, and then everybody else gets
the benefit from these conversations as I put it out there.
(57:15):
But yeah, it does take a sense of bravery to
be able to do this kind of work and put
yourself out there. But in today's world it's a lot
easier than it was five years ago, ten years ago,
absolutely twenty years ago. This conversation wouldn't have happened back then.
So but I do, but I do.
Speaker 2 (57:31):
Well.
Speaker 1 (57:32):
I have to ask you, though, when you did come
out with this, I'm assuming you came out of the closet.
Let's say, I'm assuming not everybody was open to these ideas. Family, friends, colleagues.
Are you Nutsteven? What are you doing?
Speaker 2 (57:49):
Like?
Speaker 1 (57:49):
How would you? How did you deal with that?
Speaker 2 (57:53):
It's a very interesting question, and it comes back to
what you're talking about there is you know you have
to It's a sense of sense of courage to say, Okay,
this is and it's almost as if now the gift
that I was given through this writing process, I have
to say, now, this is a message whose time has come.
(58:16):
So I'm just a message boy. You know, whether one
believes you know whatever, I've got to stand on the
on my pulpit and expouse what I saw because I
believe it's so profound and so important to do that.
Now others will make the judgment on what they read
(58:40):
and see and hear. That's all good. If if the
message that we get out or I get out changes
one life for the better, well I think I've done
my job. And the other that books I've got to
stop moving around Alex. The other the other reality is
that you know, I'm sixty six in a month. My
(59:06):
time on Earth is limited. So if I've got a
message to expand then it needs to be done pretty quick.
Speaker 1 (59:15):
I completely understand you, and you know at the end
of the day, and I've said this again, if the
message that you hear in these interviews, in these conversations
resonate with you, great, use that information and apply it
in your life. If it doesn't, discard it and move on.
It's as simple as that. There's no in between. It
(59:37):
helps you take it. If it doesn't, move on, this
is not for you. You may not be ready for it.
You might want to find it from another source. You
might need to hear it four or five or six
more times from five or six different people or different places,
or different ideas before certain things start to germinate inside
of you. And sometimes you hear an idea like this
(59:57):
and ten years later it starts to grow.
Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Isn't that interesting?
Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
It's but it's our job to put this out there
into the world, and get this information out into the
world and hopefully help people evolve and awaken to their
self realization, to the realization of who they truly are,
regardless of of of of all other crap that we
deal with town here, sorry, nod, We'll be right back
(01:00:28):
after a word from our sponsor and now back to
the show, just to to finish off.
Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
Perhaps there was a part in the book where Athara
is taken to a u a hill and there's a
great chasm before him, and on the other side of
this chasm is like they like the pearly gates, beautiful
heavenly gates taking him up to another level. And he
he looks at these gates and then looks into the
(01:01:02):
chairs and then if one more step and I'm in
the chasm, I'll fall down. And he looks behind him
and goes, I can't go back there. That was too
so he can't go forward, he can't go back. And
eventually what he understands is that he has to have faith,
so he takes the step forward, and of course he
(01:01:25):
leaned on his feet. There was no chosun there and
he moves across to the higher the higher levels. But
to me, that explains except what we're talking about.
Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
Well, that's very Indiana Jones and the last crusade, Uh
that he has to step over the chasm, and he's like,
I'm only a man of faith can manage. And he
steps in, and of course there was a bridge there,
but to the eye it was and so it's very
Indiana Johnes in that sense. But I'm gonna ask you
a few questions, Steven, that I ask all my friends.
All I guess, what is your definition of living a good.
Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
Life, fulfilling your purpose? Recognizing and fulfilling your purpose in life,
and then having the carriage to step across the breach
and getting it done? You know, there's not if I
if I expand it from my own particular purpose, I
(01:02:17):
don't want to come back. It's too hard here, So
let's get it brought this time so that we don't
have to.
Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
But that's right. And and that's just you thinking about
it here because you're in the middle of it. But
the second you get to the other side, you're like,
that was rough. But man, I got at least another
three or four lives I gotta go through, all right?
Who who else do I go down with? All right,
let's see how it goes. Who knows? Who knows? Look,
it's just like when you're playing a video game, you like,
I don't want to go back to that level of
(01:02:44):
game more experience because it's such a pain. It's gonna
take a few hours of my day and bo bapp
But I gotta go if I want to keep moving forward.
Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
So it's all right.
Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
Now, how do you define God?
Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
You know, there's a there's a a beautiful woman in
my life who who it is? Uh, happens to be
my mother and lots of people come to see her
for the grace that she gives them. And she she
answered this question h by saying that when she sees
(01:03:20):
people coming up her driveway, she sees God. Now I
don't espouse to be anywhere near her the elevation of
her levels, but that's how she explained it. If I
could get anywhere near that level, I'd be half happy.
Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
And what is the ultimate purpose of life?
Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
The love of every opportunity? Loves the bud.
Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
As the beautle say, loves are you need?
Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
That's about expands it doesn't expounds it.
Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
And where can people find out more about you and
the and the work that you do?
Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
I thank you, Alex. The book's not quite out the
public yet, not till May, but they can get onto
my website ww dot Stephen Chong dot com dot au
Stephen with a pH and they can drop me a line.
You know, ask a question all three and I'll do
my best answer and.
Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
Do you have any party messages for the audience.
Speaker 4 (01:04:23):
AH when they pick up the book and read, read
with their spiritual eyes, and then they will see the
laws of heaven that will make their life a much
more fulfilling place.
Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
Stephen, thank you so much for sharing your story with us,
and for the work that you're doing in the world
to help awaken as many souls as we can on
this planet. So I appreciate you, my friend.
Speaker 2 (01:04:52):
Thank you Alex much. Blessings to you too.
Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
Well. Thank Stephen so much for sharing his story with
all of U. I really appreciate it, Stephen. If you
want to get links to anything we spoke about in
this episode, head over to the show notes at next
levelsoul dot com Forward slash two zero one. Now, if
this conversation stirred something in you, there's more waiting. You
can listen to this episode completely commercial free on Next
(01:05:19):
level Soul TV's app where Soul meets streaming. Watch and
listen on Appleios, Android, Apple TV, Ruku, Android TV, Fire
TV LG and Samsung apps anytime anywhere. Begin your awakening
at next levelsoul dot TV. Thank you so much for listening.
As I always say, trust the journey. It's there to
(01:05:42):
teach you. I'll see you next time.
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