February 22, 2025 • 58 mins
When the Vikings Conquered the World. James Martin blows the lid off history with new revelations and evidence of Norse incursions throughout Europe and beyond.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Night Vision Vision.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Following clues left by our ancestors, we unbury the past
to reveal a knowledge of unfathomable value, putting us just
a little closer to our own true birthrights. From the
secret history of a possible bloodline of Jesus Christ, to
a secret history of America's founders, to the secret history
(00:24):
of extraterrestrial interaction on our planet. Here to bring light
to the night. Your host for night Vision Radio, Renee Barnett.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Hi, everyone, Welcome to night Vision. I'm Renee Barnett, your host,
and today I'm going to get right into it because
it's Old Home week. We've got James Martin, our historian,
with us, and he's made some rather well, I won't
say rather exciting, I'll say mind blowing discoveries this week.
(01:07):
Some I know about and some I haven't heard about,
and I'll hear about right along with you. I've got
Biggie over here in the background, and Spikey right here
beside me. Hopefully we'll have the uh, we'll have some
peace with the dogs all around. But if not, you'll
have to forgive us if this is a doghouse after all. Anyhow,
(01:29):
you know what I'm going to go ahead and bring
James up and just say hello there.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Hello, if you want, good to be back, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Good to see you.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Exciting week. If discoveries have got to say.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Oh my gosh, it's crazy, well I should start out,
you know, I don't know. I can't remember if I
had asked you to take a look at Quisa France
or if you just were doing on your own anyway,
but it, you know, sort of all started rolling out
(02:05):
with some discoveries that you made right there in Queza,
in the village where the new the Confluence Center is
going to be opening. Well, it's there now, but it's
not open yet. So right across the street from the
center is some very exciting hopefully remains of a Templar chapel.
(02:31):
And then I know that there's a cemetery somewhere. It
should be a cemetery somewhere around here that we're going
to go and try to find or are you well
if I don't hurry up and get over there. But anyhow, Yeah,
it started out with the Templar discoveries. But then something
(02:52):
happened and how did that even you were researching for
your for your Templar book series. Correct, Yeah, and then
how in the world did you happen to stumble across
the information that we talked about this week.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
So when you're I suppose it's like this. When you're writing,
there is certain times that the book begins to write you.
So spoilers everyone, I was just writing about a group
of Beginning to write, I should say about a group
of Vikings that still speculative in history, I suppose, but
(03:38):
there's a lot of sources from you know, from the
Viking period. These are a group of people called Yoms
Viking and they essentially were pagan and then Christian religious
officials who went out and fought very fiercely again into
(04:00):
the enemies of the Norse. And like I say, you
know they.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Early Vikings or was it just a different branch?
Speaker 1 (04:12):
The early Vikings were pagan and then Christianized, so you know,
this group sort of survived the Christianization process. I will
just say there is a lot of debate as to
whether or not these you know, crack forces, if you will, existed,
But nonetheless it adds to the story of the Templars
because of course, when you think about the Templars, what
(04:34):
are you amongks? There? You've got some Norse. And we
do know that the the Norse were in areas that
would later be lands of which would be controlled by
the Knights Temple, whether that's in Great Britain, France, or
(04:55):
even you know, in parts of Spain. And it was
that research that it came across a well, as odd
as it is, it came across a stone that was
believed to have been a runstone in central France. Now,
(05:17):
having looked at some images of this, no, it's either
heavily weathered or just doesn't make any sense. That then,
of course, leads onto other things, such as the extent
by which the Vikings. Now let me just say I
(05:40):
will use the word Viking because it's easier for people
to understand, but I just want to be very clear.
They didn't call themselves the Vikings. The term Viking means
well anything from explorer to pirate really, so you go
and do a viking, you don't call yourself of one.
(06:02):
The reality is, at the time they were known as
the Norse, the north Men, or in Latin the north
maney we juddling enough is where we get the department
of Normandy from the norse Men. A good place to start, really,
(06:23):
because I think most of us would be aware of Normandy,
and some of us will have heard of Rollo, the
Viking and descendants who stayed in Normandy after being bribed
by French king, and the.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Descendants of Raloh.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
You know, some of the Sinclair's are related to Rauloh
and some are not. So I guess that's supposed to
be the line that we're looking at, or that everybody
has been looking at, is the one from Raulah.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yes, so Rollow, as I say, just the story. You
know what we know about the Vikings in France. For example,
we've got Rollo. Yes, he's given part of Normandy in
the Treaty of Saint Clair surrept which some of the
people who stayed in that town ended up developing their
(07:22):
surname Saint Clair or Saint Clair. We know other descendants
of Rollow, for example William the Conqueror, who came about
and took over most southern England before eventually moving further north.
(07:42):
And that's what we know. I mean, this is the
stuff that when you're in school in Britain, you study,
you'll be aware of it. And that for my life
has been the extent if the Viking settling in France.
That's it.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Well, which makes sense, I mean, because you know that
they would have come to that northern shore. But the
rest of what you found was what didn't make a
lot of sense, at least according to the public story.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Yeah, and it's the extent by which the Norse the
Vikings had penetrated France. And we're not talking so the
idea of the Vikings being these pirates, explorers, whatever, but
that they are coastal raiders. We know that they settled
(08:49):
in England eventually. Well, you know, you settling on and island,
so you you're always close to the coast.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Yeah, always got water around.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Yeah, exactly, and lots of rivers and all of the
rest of it. What I found, I mean, I'll just
preface this. There are exceptionally few modern sources relating to
what I'm about to go into. Was the latest I
(09:22):
managed to find anything, I suppose, was actually in a
newspaper article which was from twenty eighteen, which you know,
if I just give you a rough idea and I'll
quote here. It is true that there is very little
(09:43):
historical work on the presence of the Vikings, especially in
southwest France. It's an area of history that has been
local explored for the time being, for the good reason
because we have so few archives on Viking presence south
of the Bay of Biscay or of the Schrant. Yeah.
(10:06):
Absolutely fine, you know, no issue out there. That's the
historian Alban Gautier who was actually responding to a very
unknown theory around Gascony, which I will come to because
it's quite exciting, I think. So just so we've got
(10:30):
the prephace is not much by way. You when you
think of the Vikings, you sort of immediately will think
of Britain, Ireland, maybe Scandinavia obviously, maybe northern France, Iceland,
Greenland and then over to Canada at their ship repair
(10:52):
facility at Monster Meadow and the descriptions of North America afterwards.
What you don't think of is the Vikings getting into
central France and constantly raiding. And so I'm just going
to bring up I do apologize for everyone, you know,
(11:17):
I can't make the image any bigger of anything like that,
but I'm just going to show you a map of
the extent of Viking sieges in France. And if you're
watching this, what you will be able to see, no
if you're listening to this, you should say, we'll be
(11:39):
able to see is a heck of a lot of
sieges of significant cities and towns from the south of
France and the Mediterranean over to the Atlantic coast and
then as deep in as Clement or Clement for wand
(11:59):
as we we'll call it today, just north or just
within the massive central you can see that the Norse
are traveling via river, you know, for the majority of it.
But also what you'll notice they are targeting not just
religious sites, but sites for example on the Camino Roads
(12:23):
to Santiago, the Compostella. So that's France. If I show
you Spain now slightly different map again, you can see,
you know, they've got the raid Santiago, Compostella, Seville, Kidiers,
et cetera, et cetera. So there we go. That's the
(12:49):
you know, the significant find. But then just having a
look at what they were doing in the cities, there's
been really really for me, quite fascinating.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Well when you think about it, though, it's much bigger
than just a surprise. It's I mean to me to
be fair, if this information is fully substantiated, which I
believe that's what you're doing Now then we could make
(13:25):
a case for at one time the Vikings pretty much
ruled the world, the known world they did.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
I mean, if when you think about it, the cartographical knowledge,
the knowledge of geography that the Vikings must have had
because they are attacking. For example, if we get into
southern France, we know that they sucked Narbonne in eight
(13:57):
hundred and fifty nine. They also attacked nim L you know, Montpellier. Yeah,
they weren't traveling from the north, so they weren't going
down a river, you know, via Paris and then carrying
the boats to the next river. No, no, no, They're
(14:19):
traveling around the Iberian Peninsula, so around Spain and Portugal.
And you've got a spare in mind. This is quite
dangerous because at this point in history, most of Spain,
with the exception of really the north I suppose thin
slaver along the northern Spanish coast, is under control of
(14:40):
the Moors. These are Islamic Moors. Gets its name from
the people group who sackled in Mauritania, for example, but
essentially it's in Islamic Caliphate and the closest point between
(15:03):
on the Mediterranean, the closest point between Europe and Africa
is in the Straits of Gibraltar, which we used to
be called the Pillars of Hercules. So imagine these Viking
ships getting through there when it's controlled on both sides
by an Islamic caliphate. It's quite dangerous. Yet they did it.
(15:24):
Now that also leads us to some of the other
sources with this. A lot of the sources are from
Islamic scholars who did take quite a lot of notes,
you know, as opposed to Christians who are sort of
right who end up writing about these raids. You know,
maybe a few years later. We do have some contemporary
(15:45):
information from Islamic chroniclers.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Was there any indication that there was any kind of
corporation between the Vikings and the Moors at all or
were they fighting each other?
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Yes, and yes, so they were fighting.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
We were able to get through the straight There might
have been a reason that they were able to do it,
that might have had some sort of an agreement.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
So yes, you've got temporary alliances certainly. To be further,
when we think about the Norse, what we need to
just remove from our heads is an idea of one big,
unified country, you know, like a power block, because The
reality is there were so many strong independent city about
(16:39):
towns and settlements in Scandinavia headed Beef for example, need
of us today's tron time where you had the local
chieftain and they're the ones that are sending out these parties.
So we're not talking about a country. So my suggestion
would be something like, give us passage through the Strait
(17:00):
of Gibraltar, and here's some money that we've well, we've
basically raided our way down and pillaged a few French
monasteries and here, you know, have some of the have
some of the gold. What we do know and whilst
our focus is on I suppose Western Europe, I can
tell you that in the east eastern Europe, where the
(17:25):
Eastern Roman Empire is still around in the ninth century,
what you have is a group of vikings called the Verrangians,
who become very much like the Swiss Guard I suppose
for the for the Pope, become a crack elite body
of people who defend the emperor. And incidentally, just a
(17:47):
little tidbit here, there is a rumor around these Varangians
that when the emperor died, they had right to pillage
the imperial treasury. It's not true. A lovely myth, but
it's not true. What was true, though, is that the
new emperor needed them on side and gave them lots
(18:08):
of lots of gold. The reason I mentioned them is
because it is connected. We know that there was some
ambassadors exchanged between the Islamic Caliphate and and these Varangians,
certainly and again in the east, so you've got Ahmad
(18:29):
Dibbin Rouster and Ahmad Iban fad Land rushed is a
little bit more flattering about the Norse, whereas bad Lands. Yeah,
it clearly doesn't like them. He can't abide the liberation
of women that you had strong women. He sees them
(18:50):
as being impure. Actually, our Viking friends bathed nearly nearly
every day. You know, they knitted their hair, you know,
six foot seven foot strapping.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Men.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
And I suspect there's a bit of jealousy going on there.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Yeah, I'm sure there was. How are they bathing in
the brand a dead time? Not very often?
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Well bathing, yeah, not very often? You did have you know,
you've still got the legacy of the Western Roman Empire,
so you still have the baths and all of this.
But again, I think i've said on the show before.
If you get into a time machine and go back,
don't go for a bath unless you see a plug,
(19:41):
in which case you might be all right. These things
are not cleaned, oh you know, and yes it's yeah,
it's not particularly cleanly. But you know, what you have
essentially with the Scandinavians is very similar to what you've
got Todayhaps not steam rings, but you know bathing in
(20:08):
well baths really earned rivers, and you know, in all
the west of it, so there was a view of
cleanliness in Western Europe. Having a bath is becoming a
bit more like taking medicine. You should only have a
bath when you're ill. Right, we know that that's probably
(20:31):
not the best idea. You should shower and you should
bathe frequently. But you know, this isn't connected. But I'm
just reminded by the Venetian ambassador to England in the
time of Elizabeth the First who writes that Elizabeth is
(20:52):
it takes a bath once a month even though she's
not ill. Oh wow, so that's the kind of idea
that we've that we've got. So yeah, you know you
have these uh, these Norse, these pagan Norse, and well,
(21:15):
a bit of a mystery relating to Gascony because you know,
these raids whilst there have been some find mainly around
the Sene River in Paris, h you know, at coins
and axes, you know, and that kind of stuff. We
(21:38):
know that they had to place cities, towns under siege.
So where they you know, where the hordes where they
you know, spoils that and really it takes a little
bit of time to sort of process a lot of this. Well,
(22:00):
the best thought I have is that there that they
were slave raiding, and in fact, well this is sort
of new information I suppose I have found. Now, please
can we all be adult when I say this? But
this is in the cartulary of condom. Oh right, this
(22:23):
is so, yes, here I'm talking about condom. No, the
town name doesn't relate to the other type of condom,
but yes, the cartullaries reference slave raiding.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
You have found that, now I have found.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
That that they were actually targeting monks.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
That was a good intuition on your part, because I
remember when you said you know that, yeah, that could
be the answer, because whereas all the stuff and you
know otherwise.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
So, I mean, you've got something from eight hundred and
fifty eight, which is called the annals Bertinniani who references
a few things. So in six years beyond Ironside has
(23:26):
just rolled into West Frankia ruined at the head of
this a drift kingdom. The king, who someone called Charles
the Bald, has essentially given up and gave the lands
to these invaders. Close quote. I mean that comes directly
from the analysm thought, well, this is unusual. What do
(23:49):
you mean, you know, what do you mean giving up land?
And it would seem that on the southwestern coast is
an area known as Gascony. It would later be a
part of the Kingdom of England, and Gascony is the
(24:13):
pronunciation in the Gascon language of Basque. So the Gascons
and the Basques are essentially the same people. I'm expecting
some very angry emails now, but essentially, if you just
look in history, that's it. And it would seem that.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
We, or at least I've not been to the Basque country.
I mean maybe through it, but I've never been there
to really do any looking around or anything. But I
know that you know a lot of people that watch
and listen to this show would know about the Great
Cross of Bande that is there in the Basque region,
(25:00):
and I believe there's been another a second one identified
that's nearby.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
I want to.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Say, is it in Gerona or is it somewhere.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Still in the now?
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Is Gerona in Basque country?
Speaker 1 (25:15):
No, Drona is the boss Len.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
Right, right, So you're already out of that Basque area
by then. But it's interesting that it's going through the
Basque region because those are people that we just don't
know a heck of a lot about, especially their origins,
in their language. And you know, there's something different, you know,
(25:44):
or unique about the people. It's certainly their language, certainly
their DNA. So I think we've got a lot more
to learn about the Basque.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
People, absolutely, And you know, fortunately like a lot of languages,
and what we saw in the you know, the build
up to and aftermath of World War two is a
lot of the suppression of languages, and you know, the
Basque languages returning once more.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
You know, after World War Two there was a sort
of move to suppress certain languages.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah, well, you had a fascist in charge in Spain,
in Franco who had you know, essentially began clamping down
on you know, native languages Basque Catalan for example. Yeah,
(26:47):
so he was.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Wanting everyone to speak Spanish.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah, you know, and it's no difference to what the
English did to the Welsh. And you know, that's what
I'm perients.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
You know, they're trying to do here, you know, and
people get angry when they hear people speaking a different
language speak English. It's like, I don't know, it doesn't
bother me, you know, and if they're not talking to me,
I don't really need to understand what they're saying. And
(27:24):
you know, then we end up losing all these languages,
like you know, a lot of the Native American languages
that we're trying to recapture and pass along to the
young people.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Now, well, you know, if we lose language, then we
then lose understanding, give what people were writing about in
the past, the traditions, and effectively, you know, you can't
have culture, you know, and cultural differences and understanding if
(27:55):
you then want to attack one thing that is at
the heart of culture, which is which is language. Well
our so why would the the Norse one of the
vikings seem to focus on Gascony And my suggestion is, well,
(28:17):
it's much quicker to go along the Pyrenees. So if
you imagine from the northern side of the Pyrenees right down,
it's a much narrower it'sthmus is what we would call them.
But it's easier to go overland that way than it
is to sail right the way around Spain, and again
(28:37):
especially if you have potentially hostile forces in the moors.
So my my thoughts are that this is why they
did end up settling nearby. So we know that the
Eel de ray eield all around. For example, these were
(28:58):
main ports ship repair facilities that the Norse had well sappled.
But certainly we're using for supporting their raids deep into
front but also then over into Spain as well.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Well, do we know yet how far eastward? I mean
we're talking about you know, Iberia and France. Did they
stop at the what would it be the German border
of the Belgic border, I don't know, or did keep going?
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Oh well, so the Swedish Vikings, if they were.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
In Spain, in southern Spain, which obviously they were from
the map that you showed, then I would think they
would have also been in Africa.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Yeah, well, well much later, you know, two hundred years later,
when we're getting into the eleventh century. Yes, the Normans,
the Norsemen controlled Sicily and bits of North Africa. Yeah, yeah,
you've got the Swedish Vikings were Remember the further east
(30:24):
to go in Europe, the less water there is, or
certainly less less less ocean, right, but plenty of rivers.
And unfortunately though with rivers, what you have to do
is you have to row. And the old Norse word
(30:46):
for row is roos. And this is where we can
say that Kiev, Kiev was established by the rous the
you know, the quite simil played Russia, the other Russia, Ukraine,
We're established by the Vikings. There is a Viking you
(31:12):
I haven't read about for quite some time, and his
name is Ingva the far traveled mm hmm, you know,
and we we have these lovely nicknames and all the
rest of it, but Vah, as far as we know.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
Ingar traveled in Charles the Bald, or pep in the short.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Or childs the fat.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
That would have been my big fear.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
You know, I wouldn't even want to think what they.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
Would pick out something feature that you know, you're probably
trying not to highlight and then call you that every
day of your life.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Of course, you you have Iva the boneless who you know.
There's two theories with this. One that he was called
the boneless because he had a disability doesn't really fit
within humor of the Norse, to be fair. But actually
was called the bonus boneless because he was impotent.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Oh man, that does make sense, I.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Have to say, I most certainly fit in with.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
A stance of humor.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Oh yeah, and quite guttural as well. We won't want
we really don't want to go into it. I don't
think we'd be able to actually, but yeah. In Rather
Far Traveled went down the trait.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Ancient peoples were kind of nasty, you know. We hear
some of the Roman humor that was just I mean
toilet humor, literally toilet humor.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
What's fron with that.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
It's a tradition that's carried on to this day.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
It is. I think if you're from the north of
England and in Scotland, I think some of the Scandinavian
legacy is actually we have a very different sense of
humor to those in the South of England. For example,
in Rather Far Traveled got as far as the Kingdom
of Georgia, where he fought some battles. You know, this
(33:26):
is on the Silk Road, which ultimately leads to China.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
You think about the north when you think about the
Silk Road. It doesn't mind, you don't.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
But the fact that he's called the far Traveled, I mean,
there are twenty six runstones, they're called the vah ruinstones
describe going into essentially Saracen Land and then over to
and then over to Georgia. Whether got further well, unfortunately
(34:03):
as yet and we're not too sure, but most certainly
they were aware of the Black Sea, you know. And
again we can't think of this as a unified country
or anything like that. That comes eventually with time and
actually Christianity, I suppose. But you know these are independent groups. Yeah,
(34:29):
you know groups and all of this, and we know
some of their leaders, and some of them are mythical,
maybe based with a bit of truth, but you know,
lots of sagas around the campfire, you know, a bit
of mead, a little bit too much mead perhaps, And
then of course you know someone who I don't know,
(34:51):
for example, you know, rescued a few sheep. Certainly you know,
had a valiant struggle against warriors and beasts in all
of this, and yeah, actually it was just a shepherd
kind of thing. But yeah, if we just come back
to Gascony, because again I've got some further quotes around Gascony.
(35:18):
For example, these are in the Letters and Decrees of
Pope John. The eighth Gascony in the eight eighties was
in full desolation. No traveler ventured to cross it, especially
in its western part, which was more affected than the others.
The Bishop of Oche, also then eight seventy nine, explains
(35:42):
that there had only three suffragists installed within the eastern seats,
and the west was totally deprived of pastors. So they've
done quite a bit of a number in Gascony, you know,
they have really raided. And I can give you a
(36:03):
bit of a flavor also of some of the things
that they were taking. So for example, when you think
of you know, when you think of raids, you think, hmm,
what are they taking, you know, And I think I've
answered this with yes, they're leaving, you know people. In
(36:25):
other words, we also know there was a quite a
famous battle, I suppose, which with Steymied I should say,
the advance of the Norse. And this is at the
Battle of Tala. But we get something else from this,
(36:51):
and again this comes from the catillery of San Pierre
de Condom, where there is a reference to the possession
of a venerated relic, which was a cross that was
taken back from a Norse leader called Arald that's Harold
(37:13):
for me and you, and he had this relic around
his neck. So I mean, this doesn't, you know, mean
too much. I don't know what the relic exactly was,
but it gives you a bit of an idea that
if this is what they're doing, they're going into churches
(37:35):
as well and taking particular relics. What else did they take? Right?
And you know, Gascony is under the control of it's
an independent kingdom, kind of under the dukes and kings
of Aquitan. We know a very famous leader of Aquitaine
(37:59):
who's Eleanor She comes around in the twelfth century. But
there is this idea that's been muted that the kings
of Akitan let the Norse in so they could go
and do a number to the king, to the carol Engines.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
And I can't like too much that, you know, there
was a woman operating in that position anyway, No.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Much later but you know, I'm skipping ahead a little bit,
if you know, I need to remark on this. Eventually
what happens though, is and this is up for contention.
I'm not saying I necessarily agree with this. The Norse
are eventually stopped, and there is a view that they
(38:53):
didn't leave Gascony, they stayed and settled, and this view
where we can begin to form a bit of a
temple link. Actually, you know, if this is true, it
certainly whether they settled it doesn't matter for this because
Aquitan would end up getting back on its from its
(39:17):
knees and then became very famous in medieval history for
the quality of its shipbuilding. In fact, when the English
took over, they frequently referred to I think as Bayon
actually for the quality of their ships, and most ships
(39:37):
were ordered from there. And this ship making tradition extended
up the west coast to the places like Bordeaux and
crucially La Rochelle. And so it might be in fact
that you know, when we just begin to look at
(39:59):
things that that ship, that shipbuilding, you know, it become
a very big maritime power. Aquitaine and Eleanor who ends
up marrying well the French king and then the English king,
not at the same time, but to do that. Yeah,
(40:24):
it's possible that that ship making tradition actually came from
the descendants of the original shipmakers, the Norse.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
That would make perfect sense.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
More research is needed for that. What I'm not saying
is that if you from Gascony, you're clearly Viking. But
it would be interesting for some DNA testing, unfortunately, which
is banned in France. So how we would end up
doing that, I'm not sure, but it's a theory. There
(40:57):
is another thing though, you know, now we've mentioned and
remember the Norse had what were called fingers, not fingers things,
and these things are essentially parliament. So the Icelandic parliament
(41:17):
is called the old finger you know, the oldest parliament going.
Actually it might just very well be that Gascony and Aquitim,
which was a part of There is a bit of
an It's a bit unusual because they didn't develop a
(41:38):
feudal system until relatively late for feudal Europe. And it
just got me thinking, before you know, we we came
on air. I do wonder whether or not that these
you know, free assemblies of of you know, are free
(41:59):
men essentially is why feudalism didn't take routes until relatively later.
But also why it's not that much of a problem
with Eleanor. You know, she's from a tradition where you know,
women were certainly face and you know, were much more
(42:23):
independent than women in Europe generally were. It's interesting and again,
you know, just to you know, come back to Gascony.
The reality is that you know, Gascony, well, monastery building
(42:45):
comes to an abrupt stop. Now there's no churches built
for about two hundred years. Bear in mind that they're
also a pagan certainly in this period. I do wonder
whether there is just something there again that says, well,
if they did control the area churches building churches orway,
(43:08):
is it that they just devastated the economy so much
so that you know, there was no money for anything.
But if that was the case, why would they keep
on raiding? Right? But from Gascony? If I just bring
up Ower Matt, this one's a little clever for prefer
(43:33):
but if you you on the western coast, you can
see Bordeaux and then you've got the Garon River. The
area south of the Goon on this map is the
area that we're talking about Gascony. What you can see
there is that they got as deep as to lose also,
(43:56):
and we don't when you think of to lose, you
do not think, oh, it's near the coast now. But
they got there twice. They seized to lease an eight
four to four and eight six four.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
It's it's wound because some of these places they were
they would take it and move along and then come
back and take it again. Yeah, some of those cities
were taken like three or four times.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Absolutely, I mean the whilst Paris, Paris isn't that important
the city. In fact, the siege of Paris, of which
there were many, so for example eight four five, eight
five six, eight six one eight six five and then
two years between a eight five and eight eight six
(44:52):
that latter siege. Essentially the result is that the follow
then also and tod Bollow get Normandy.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
Hmm.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
But Paris isn't that significant, these monasteries there, It's an
insignificant city, really strategic, but not about well if it
wasn't for the Norse constantly raiding it, you know, and
the strategic need to stop the you know, the North
traveling down the river systems and what have you, it
(45:25):
wouldn't be the capital of France today. So we've got
a you know, a legacy there which says, you know what,
the the imfluence of the Vikings in Europe, I think
has been deliberately actually tarnished, suppressed exactly. You know, you
(45:52):
have a a initially pagan group of people who's here's
something you might not think about, but people like me
do we were told by the Church or you know,
these were pagans, they became Christian and you know, and
(46:14):
all of that, and before that they were evil, you know,
murderers who just yeah, we were the innocents and I'm sorry,
that's just not true. In fact, after one seizure at Paris,
they moved to the city of Hamburg, as the Pope
(46:34):
had installed a new bishop there, the first one with
one mission to convert all the Pagans. And you see,
that's the nice, pleasant version of the story is they
were being converted either by baptisms of drowning or in
boiling boiling, so you know, who's the innocent party. But
(46:57):
if we want to just look at the extent of
the influence, not just into into France, but think about
in the English speaking world, All of our days of
the week are named after pagan belief systems. Monday is Moonday,
Tuesday tis Day an ass God Odin's Day, Wednesday, Thursday, Freguesday, Friday,
(47:27):
and then we're back onto Saturn, you know, and then
the sun. You know, it's it's a little difficult to
swallow that, you know that these were just doing a
group of raiding pirates with now no culture, because it's
just totally untrue.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
Can I ask you something? You know, we talked about
the Norse going to the New World, and you know,
particularly Canada. You know, where I grew up in Oklahoma,
there was a giant stone known as a heaven Room Stone.
(48:08):
Sorry if he's just making a fit, and it's you know,
we used to climb on it when when we were
kids and play on it. I had friends that lived
nearby there and I would go visit. Later.
Speaker 1 (48:25):
It was.
Speaker 3 (48:27):
Finally translated by a lady named Gloria Farley, and it
was there was a date there of ten twelve and
it was said to be you know, runic riding. So
if it was ten twelve, does that make sense in
(48:48):
the timeline?
Speaker 1 (48:51):
Well, the nonsensetainly around the still just about using the
In fact, the movement from runes to the alphabet probably
took a lot longer than I think people realize it's possible.
I urged caution, and this is where you know it.
(49:15):
Catch me on one day, I'll think, oh, it's possible,
catch me another role, dismiss it. I'm very much on
the you've got the Kensington Runstone. I suppose it's the
more famous one which describes you know, bloodied people. You know,
it's in ruins, and it's from I think thirteen eighty
(49:36):
something like that. The reality is that's very late, right,
the ruins. It's not impossible, by the way. I'm just
saying it's late, and.
Speaker 3 (49:50):
The descriptionicity of that been established.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
But it has and then it hasn't, and then it hasn't.
It hasn't. These mounters for per absolutely everything.
Speaker 3 (50:02):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (50:03):
The problem is if you've returned to find most of
your party with blood, the last thing I'd be doing
is going m pass me in that chisel. I'm going
to start carving. I'd probably want to get out of
there again, you know, capturing another day. No, of course,
that's what you would do. You would explain, you know,
(50:23):
what had happened, and you know, essentially give them some offering.
But again we're not these you know, if against intrument
stand is correct and genuine, we would have been carved
by Christian.
Speaker 3 (50:40):
Was that dated? Was there a date on it or
how were they able to establish a date?
Speaker 1 (50:46):
So there was a date on it? Yes, the again,
some of the so some of the ruins you can
tell the you can tell that they're much more recent
because of the way that runs develop And unfortunately we
(51:08):
only found out about these umlauts really from the nineteen sixties.
So we know that the stone was found in the
eighteen nineties. It's not possible for someone really to have
forged what was on there or is it? You know, yeah,
(51:30):
he's so he's so tricky with it. I mean, you
know personally, you know, I think his name is all
the Foreman. He was, you know, a migrant from Sweden't
think it was, and I think it's thirteen sixty two.
Actually I think it's dated too. And he says he
(51:52):
finds it, you know, in a tree route and all
of that. Look, it's certainly possible. The naise I think
we've got to establish used river systems. They were with
one hundred percent proof were in North America. They had
(52:12):
a ship repair facility at lance and Meadows, the United Nations,
you know UNESCO site established from nineteen sixty. It proves
that they were at least in Canada. We know they
referenced three places that they've visited, Markland, Vinland and Helloland.
(52:34):
You know Markland the wood wooded area, Helloland the plate
well literally the hell you know, nothing grows there. And Vinland,
yes it could mean the place of vines, but fertile pastures.
There's absolutely no doubt in me that they were on
the Eastern seaboard. They had a name for the natives
(52:56):
scaling Gar, which unfortunately I can't give you the trance
because it's quite rude. You know, they had known some
so this is extensive contact. By the way, so we
know that they were in North America. That's not a doubt.
But do you just I suppose have to make the
(53:16):
point when you might be familiar with the Norse raid
at Lindis Farm, Holy Island, which is said to have
began the Viking period. And you know there's a chapel
(53:38):
on London's Fans established by Aiden, who I think was
a contemporary student of Columba in six hundred and thirty five,
is suggested on June the eighth, seven, nine to three
that the Vikings basically raided. Okay, that's written about quite
(54:01):
a few years after the event. But there's zero, none,
nothing in the archaeological record that supports any such trade. Nothing,
Now what you're going to get from an historium. So
I'm going to pick on one Dan snow Good historian,
(54:21):
and he says, oh, you know the archaology has been lost. Well,
mm hmmm. We've got to play fair hair. If someone
says the Kensington Roonstone's reel, the first thing that people
ask for is where's your evidence? Provide evidence proven? Well,
(54:41):
I also say that about Linda's farm, no reason to
doubt that people wrote about it. You know that they
all the raided and suddenly and somehow they left from
neither of us, and with brilliant fortune, managed to sail
across the North Sea to well, you know, a monastery.
(55:02):
There was very good luck, wasn't it. But if there's
no evidence, right, we're just basing it on the you know,
the musings of people like Alcoyin of York, who's nowhere
near is about six hundred miles away in Paris at
the court of Charla man So to answer just shortly,
(55:25):
I don't know about the Oklahoma roomstones, the veracity, et cetera.
All I can say is it's possible. In fact, all
I can say with the extent that the Vikings were
invading from the south of France, the east and north,
(55:46):
you know, Spain, from Santiago, et cetera, is I can
also tell you that I don't know what they took
from some of the Church's cathedrals, that they loundered, any relics,
anything that might be more interesting to people who have
(56:07):
involved in the rund the chateau mysteries and the templars,
et cetera, you know, to you know, the people who
are interested in Christian history. I suppose I can't rule out,
not that it's up to me to arbor to these things,
but I can't rule out that the Nose didn't take something.
I can't equally say that it didn't end up in
(56:30):
North America.
Speaker 3 (56:34):
Well, we've run right up to the edge, and before
we get out of here, I wanted to remind people
that your book, written with Tim Wallace Murphy, Uncharted, is
on sale on Amazon and I think there's an audiobook also, yep,
(56:54):
so people can can can do. I'm going to have
to start getting some audio, so I think that would
be interesting. I'll just have to be careful because as
soon as I start listening, I'll fall asleep no matter
how interesting the material is, especially if it's a good voice.
Has that guy got a good voice?
Speaker 1 (57:14):
Nigel? How's a very good advice? Yet?
Speaker 3 (57:15):
Oh my goodness, next one, I want you to do
it by yourself.
Speaker 1 (57:21):
I think I send people to sleep.
Speaker 3 (57:23):
Well. People love your voice. They love they always say
that you know that.
Speaker 1 (57:28):
Well, look everyone at the end of the show, so
you can wake up again. Now that's right.
Speaker 3 (57:33):
Yeah, Visu's awake. She's trying to get out the back door.
So I guess I better get going. But thank you
so much for bringing this new information out and look
forward to further developments of it, because I'm sure there's
going to be more. You've just started to pull the
thread so when Vikings ruled the world, I can see
(57:55):
it now a new series. All right, guys, thanks everybody
for watching and listening wherever you are, and we'll see
you next week. Thanks starting Bowe
Night Vision Vision.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Following clues left by our ancestors, we unbury the past
to reveal a knowledge of unfathomable value, putting us just
a little closer to our own true birthrights. From the
secret history of a possible bloodline of Jesus Christ, to
a secret history of America's founders, to the secret history
(00:24):
of extraterrestrial interaction on our planet. Here to bring light
to the night. Your host for night Vision Radio, Renee Barnett.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Hi, everyone, Welcome to night Vision. I'm Renee Barnett, your host,
and today I'm going to get right into it because
it's Old Home week. We've got James Martin, our historian,
with us, and he's made some rather well, I won't
say rather exciting, I'll say mind blowing discoveries this week.
(01:07):
Some I know about and some I haven't heard about,
and I'll hear about right along with you. I've got
Biggie over here in the background, and Spikey right here
beside me. Hopefully we'll have the uh, we'll have some
peace with the dogs all around. But if not, you'll
have to forgive us if this is a doghouse after all. Anyhow,
(01:29):
you know what I'm going to go ahead and bring
James up and just say hello there.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Hello, if you want, good to be back, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Good to see you.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Exciting week. If discoveries have got to say.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Oh my gosh, it's crazy, well I should start out,
you know, I don't know. I can't remember if I
had asked you to take a look at Quisa France
or if you just were doing on your own anyway,
but it, you know, sort of all started rolling out
(02:05):
with some discoveries that you made right there in Queza,
in the village where the new the Confluence Center is
going to be opening. Well, it's there now, but it's
not open yet. So right across the street from the
center is some very exciting hopefully remains of a Templar chapel.
(02:31):
And then I know that there's a cemetery somewhere. It
should be a cemetery somewhere around here that we're going
to go and try to find or are you well
if I don't hurry up and get over there. But anyhow, Yeah,
it started out with the Templar discoveries. But then something
(02:52):
happened and how did that even you were researching for
your for your Templar book series. Correct, Yeah, and then
how in the world did you happen to stumble across
the information that we talked about this week.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
So when you're I suppose it's like this. When you're writing,
there is certain times that the book begins to write you.
So spoilers everyone, I was just writing about a group
of Beginning to write, I should say about a group
of Vikings that still speculative in history, I suppose, but
(03:38):
there's a lot of sources from you know, from the
Viking period. These are a group of people called Yoms
Viking and they essentially were pagan and then Christian religious
officials who went out and fought very fiercely again into
(04:00):
the enemies of the Norse. And like I say, you
know they.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Early Vikings or was it just a different branch?
Speaker 1 (04:12):
The early Vikings were pagan and then Christianized, so you know,
this group sort of survived the Christianization process. I will
just say there is a lot of debate as to
whether or not these you know, crack forces, if you will, existed,
But nonetheless it adds to the story of the Templars
because of course, when you think about the Templars, what
(04:34):
are you amongks? There? You've got some Norse. And we
do know that the the Norse were in areas that
would later be lands of which would be controlled by
the Knights Temple, whether that's in Great Britain, France, or
(04:55):
even you know, in parts of Spain. And it was
that research that it came across a well, as odd
as it is, it came across a stone that was
believed to have been a runstone in central France. Now,
(05:17):
having looked at some images of this, no, it's either
heavily weathered or just doesn't make any sense. That then,
of course, leads onto other things, such as the extent
by which the Vikings. Now let me just say I
(05:40):
will use the word Viking because it's easier for people
to understand, but I just want to be very clear.
They didn't call themselves the Vikings. The term Viking means
well anything from explorer to pirate really, so you go
and do a viking, you don't call yourself of one.
(06:02):
The reality is, at the time they were known as
the Norse, the north Men, or in Latin the north
maney we juddling enough is where we get the department
of Normandy from the norse Men. A good place to start, really,
(06:23):
because I think most of us would be aware of Normandy,
and some of us will have heard of Rollo, the
Viking and descendants who stayed in Normandy after being bribed
by French king, and the.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Descendants of Raloh.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
You know, some of the Sinclair's are related to Rauloh
and some are not. So I guess that's supposed to
be the line that we're looking at, or that everybody
has been looking at, is the one from Raulah.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yes, so Rollow, as I say, just the story. You
know what we know about the Vikings in France. For example,
we've got Rollo. Yes, he's given part of Normandy in
the Treaty of Saint Clair surrept which some of the
people who stayed in that town ended up developing their
(07:22):
surname Saint Clair or Saint Clair. We know other descendants
of Rollow, for example William the Conqueror, who came about
and took over most southern England before eventually moving further north.
(07:42):
And that's what we know. I mean, this is the
stuff that when you're in school in Britain, you study,
you'll be aware of it. And that for my life
has been the extent if the Viking settling in France.
That's it.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Well, which makes sense, I mean, because you know that
they would have come to that northern shore. But the
rest of what you found was what didn't make a
lot of sense, at least according to the public story.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Yeah, and it's the extent by which the Norse the
Vikings had penetrated France. And we're not talking so the
idea of the Vikings being these pirates, explorers, whatever, but
that they are coastal raiders. We know that they settled
(08:49):
in England eventually. Well, you know, you settling on and island,
so you you're always close to the coast.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Yeah, always got water around.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Yeah, exactly, and lots of rivers and all of the
rest of it. What I found, I mean, I'll just
preface this. There are exceptionally few modern sources relating to
what I'm about to go into. Was the latest I
(09:22):
managed to find anything, I suppose, was actually in a
newspaper article which was from twenty eighteen, which you know,
if I just give you a rough idea and I'll
quote here. It is true that there is very little
(09:43):
historical work on the presence of the Vikings, especially in
southwest France. It's an area of history that has been
local explored for the time being, for the good reason
because we have so few archives on Viking presence south
of the Bay of Biscay or of the Schrant. Yeah.
(10:06):
Absolutely fine, you know, no issue out there. That's the
historian Alban Gautier who was actually responding to a very
unknown theory around Gascony, which I will come to because
it's quite exciting, I think. So just so we've got
(10:30):
the prephace is not much by way. You when you
think of the Vikings, you sort of immediately will think
of Britain, Ireland, maybe Scandinavia obviously, maybe northern France, Iceland,
Greenland and then over to Canada at their ship repair
(10:52):
facility at Monster Meadow and the descriptions of North America afterwards.
What you don't think of is the Vikings getting into
central France and constantly raiding. And so I'm just going
to bring up I do apologize for everyone, you know,
(11:17):
I can't make the image any bigger of anything like that,
but I'm just going to show you a map of
the extent of Viking sieges in France. And if you're
watching this, what you will be able to see, no
if you're listening to this, you should say, we'll be
(11:39):
able to see is a heck of a lot of
sieges of significant cities and towns from the south of
France and the Mediterranean over to the Atlantic coast and
then as deep in as Clement or Clement for wand
(11:59):
as we we'll call it today, just north or just
within the massive central you can see that the Norse
are traveling via river, you know, for the majority of it.
But also what you'll notice they are targeting not just
religious sites, but sites for example on the Camino Roads
(12:23):
to Santiago, the Compostella. So that's France. If I show
you Spain now slightly different map again, you can see,
you know, they've got the raid Santiago, Compostella, Seville, Kidiers,
et cetera, et cetera. So there we go. That's the
(12:49):
you know, the significant find. But then just having a
look at what they were doing in the cities, there's
been really really for me, quite fascinating.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Well when you think about it, though, it's much bigger
than just a surprise. It's I mean to me to
be fair, if this information is fully substantiated, which I
believe that's what you're doing Now then we could make
(13:25):
a case for at one time the Vikings pretty much
ruled the world, the known world they did.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
I mean, if when you think about it, the cartographical knowledge,
the knowledge of geography that the Vikings must have had
because they are attacking. For example, if we get into
southern France, we know that they sucked Narbonne in eight
(13:57):
hundred and fifty nine. They also attacked nim L you know, Montpellier. Yeah,
they weren't traveling from the north, so they weren't going
down a river, you know, via Paris and then carrying
the boats to the next river. No, no, no, They're
(14:19):
traveling around the Iberian Peninsula, so around Spain and Portugal.
And you've got a spare in mind. This is quite
dangerous because at this point in history, most of Spain,
with the exception of really the north I suppose thin
slaver along the northern Spanish coast, is under control of
(14:40):
the Moors. These are Islamic Moors. Gets its name from
the people group who sackled in Mauritania, for example, but
essentially it's in Islamic Caliphate and the closest point between
(15:03):
on the Mediterranean, the closest point between Europe and Africa
is in the Straits of Gibraltar, which we used to
be called the Pillars of Hercules. So imagine these Viking
ships getting through there when it's controlled on both sides
by an Islamic caliphate. It's quite dangerous. Yet they did it.
(15:24):
Now that also leads us to some of the other
sources with this. A lot of the sources are from
Islamic scholars who did take quite a lot of notes,
you know, as opposed to Christians who are sort of
right who end up writing about these raids. You know,
maybe a few years later. We do have some contemporary
(15:45):
information from Islamic chroniclers.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Was there any indication that there was any kind of
corporation between the Vikings and the Moors at all or
were they fighting each other?
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Yes, and yes, so they were fighting.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
We were able to get through the straight There might
have been a reason that they were able to do it,
that might have had some sort of an agreement.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
So yes, you've got temporary alliances certainly. To be further,
when we think about the Norse, what we need to
just remove from our heads is an idea of one big,
unified country, you know, like a power block, because The
reality is there were so many strong independent city about
(16:39):
towns and settlements in Scandinavia headed Beef for example, need
of us today's tron time where you had the local
chieftain and they're the ones that are sending out these parties.
So we're not talking about a country. So my suggestion
would be something like, give us passage through the Strait
(17:00):
of Gibraltar, and here's some money that we've well, we've
basically raided our way down and pillaged a few French
monasteries and here, you know, have some of the have
some of the gold. What we do know and whilst
our focus is on I suppose Western Europe, I can
tell you that in the east eastern Europe, where the
(17:25):
Eastern Roman Empire is still around in the ninth century,
what you have is a group of vikings called the Verrangians,
who become very much like the Swiss Guard I suppose
for the for the Pope, become a crack elite body
of people who defend the emperor. And incidentally, just a
(17:47):
little tidbit here, there is a rumor around these Varangians
that when the emperor died, they had right to pillage
the imperial treasury. It's not true. A lovely myth, but
it's not true. What was true, though, is that the
new emperor needed them on side and gave them lots
(18:08):
of lots of gold. The reason I mentioned them is
because it is connected. We know that there was some
ambassadors exchanged between the Islamic Caliphate and and these Varangians,
certainly and again in the east, so you've got Ahmad
(18:29):
Dibbin Rouster and Ahmad Iban fad Land rushed is a
little bit more flattering about the Norse, whereas bad Lands. Yeah,
it clearly doesn't like them. He can't abide the liberation
of women that you had strong women. He sees them
(18:50):
as being impure. Actually, our Viking friends bathed nearly nearly
every day. You know, they knitted their hair, you know,
six foot seven foot strapping.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Men.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
And I suspect there's a bit of jealousy going on there.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Yeah, I'm sure there was. How are they bathing in
the brand a dead time? Not very often?
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Well bathing, yeah, not very often? You did have you know,
you've still got the legacy of the Western Roman Empire,
so you still have the baths and all of this.
But again, I think i've said on the show before.
If you get into a time machine and go back,
don't go for a bath unless you see a plug,
(19:41):
in which case you might be all right. These things
are not cleaned, oh you know, and yes it's yeah,
it's not particularly cleanly. But you know, what you have
essentially with the Scandinavians is very similar to what you've
got Todayhaps not steam rings, but you know bathing in
(20:08):
well baths really earned rivers, and you know, in all
the west of it, so there was a view of
cleanliness in Western Europe. Having a bath is becoming a
bit more like taking medicine. You should only have a
bath when you're ill. Right, we know that that's probably
(20:31):
not the best idea. You should shower and you should
bathe frequently. But you know, this isn't connected. But I'm
just reminded by the Venetian ambassador to England in the
time of Elizabeth the First who writes that Elizabeth is
(20:52):
it takes a bath once a month even though she's
not ill. Oh wow, so that's the kind of idea
that we've that we've got. So yeah, you know you
have these uh, these Norse, these pagan Norse, and well,
(21:15):
a bit of a mystery relating to Gascony because you know,
these raids whilst there have been some find mainly around
the Sene River in Paris, h you know, at coins
and axes, you know, and that kind of stuff. We
(21:38):
know that they had to place cities, towns under siege.
So where they you know, where the hordes where they
you know, spoils that and really it takes a little
bit of time to sort of process a lot of this. Well,
(22:00):
the best thought I have is that there that they
were slave raiding, and in fact, well this is sort
of new information I suppose I have found. Now, please
can we all be adult when I say this? But
this is in the cartulary of condom. Oh right, this
(22:23):
is so, yes, here I'm talking about condom. No, the
town name doesn't relate to the other type of condom,
but yes, the cartullaries reference slave raiding.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
You have found that, now I have found.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
That that they were actually targeting monks.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
That was a good intuition on your part, because I
remember when you said you know that, yeah, that could
be the answer, because whereas all the stuff and you
know otherwise.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
So, I mean, you've got something from eight hundred and
fifty eight, which is called the annals Bertinniani who references
a few things. So in six years beyond Ironside has
(23:26):
just rolled into West Frankia ruined at the head of
this a drift kingdom. The king, who someone called Charles
the Bald, has essentially given up and gave the lands
to these invaders. Close quote. I mean that comes directly
from the analysm thought, well, this is unusual. What do
(23:49):
you mean, you know, what do you mean giving up land?
And it would seem that on the southwestern coast is
an area known as Gascony. It would later be a
part of the Kingdom of England, and Gascony is the
(24:13):
pronunciation in the Gascon language of Basque. So the Gascons
and the Basques are essentially the same people. I'm expecting
some very angry emails now, but essentially, if you just
look in history, that's it. And it would seem that.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
We, or at least I've not been to the Basque country.
I mean maybe through it, but I've never been there
to really do any looking around or anything. But I
know that you know a lot of people that watch
and listen to this show would know about the Great
Cross of Bande that is there in the Basque region,
(25:00):
and I believe there's been another a second one identified
that's nearby.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
I want to.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Say, is it in Gerona or is it somewhere.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Still in the now?
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Is Gerona in Basque country?
Speaker 1 (25:15):
No, Drona is the boss Len.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
Right, right, So you're already out of that Basque area
by then. But it's interesting that it's going through the
Basque region because those are people that we just don't
know a heck of a lot about, especially their origins,
in their language. And you know, there's something different, you know,
(25:44):
or unique about the people. It's certainly their language, certainly
their DNA. So I think we've got a lot more
to learn about the Basque.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
People, absolutely, And you know, fortunately like a lot of languages,
and what we saw in the you know, the build
up to and aftermath of World War two is a
lot of the suppression of languages, and you know, the
Basque languages returning once more.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
You know, after World War Two there was a sort
of move to suppress certain languages.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah, well, you had a fascist in charge in Spain,
in Franco who had you know, essentially began clamping down
on you know, native languages Basque Catalan for example. Yeah,
(26:47):
so he was.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Wanting everyone to speak Spanish.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah, you know, and it's no difference to what the
English did to the Welsh. And you know, that's what
I'm perients.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
You know, they're trying to do here, you know, and
people get angry when they hear people speaking a different
language speak English. It's like, I don't know, it doesn't
bother me, you know, and if they're not talking to me,
I don't really need to understand what they're saying. And
(27:24):
you know, then we end up losing all these languages,
like you know, a lot of the Native American languages
that we're trying to recapture and pass along to the
young people.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Now, well, you know, if we lose language, then we
then lose understanding, give what people were writing about in
the past, the traditions, and effectively, you know, you can't
have culture, you know, and cultural differences and understanding if
(27:55):
you then want to attack one thing that is at
the heart of culture, which is which is language. Well
our so why would the the Norse one of the
vikings seem to focus on Gascony And my suggestion is, well,
(28:17):
it's much quicker to go along the Pyrenees. So if
you imagine from the northern side of the Pyrenees right down,
it's a much narrower it'sthmus is what we would call them.
But it's easier to go overland that way than it
is to sail right the way around Spain, and again
(28:37):
especially if you have potentially hostile forces in the moors.
So my my thoughts are that this is why they
did end up settling nearby. So we know that the
Eel de ray eield all around. For example, these were
(28:58):
main ports ship repair facilities that the Norse had well sappled.
But certainly we're using for supporting their raids deep into
front but also then over into Spain as well.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Well, do we know yet how far eastward? I mean
we're talking about you know, Iberia and France. Did they
stop at the what would it be the German border
of the Belgic border, I don't know, or did keep going?
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Oh well, so the Swedish Vikings, if they were.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
In Spain, in southern Spain, which obviously they were from
the map that you showed, then I would think they
would have also been in Africa.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Yeah, well, well much later, you know, two hundred years later,
when we're getting into the eleventh century. Yes, the Normans,
the Norsemen controlled Sicily and bits of North Africa. Yeah, yeah,
you've got the Swedish Vikings were Remember the further east
(30:24):
to go in Europe, the less water there is, or
certainly less less less ocean, right, but plenty of rivers.
And unfortunately though with rivers, what you have to do
is you have to row. And the old Norse word
(30:46):
for row is roos. And this is where we can
say that Kiev, Kiev was established by the rous the
you know, the quite simil played Russia, the other Russia, Ukraine,
We're established by the Vikings. There is a Viking you
(31:12):
I haven't read about for quite some time, and his
name is Ingva the far traveled mm hmm, you know,
and we we have these lovely nicknames and all the
rest of it, but Vah, as far as we know.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
Ingar traveled in Charles the Bald, or pep in the short.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Or childs the fat.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
That would have been my big fear.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
You know, I wouldn't even want to think what they.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
Would pick out something feature that you know, you're probably
trying not to highlight and then call you that every
day of your life.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Of course, you you have Iva the boneless who you know.
There's two theories with this. One that he was called
the boneless because he had a disability doesn't really fit
within humor of the Norse, to be fair. But actually
was called the bonus boneless because he was impotent.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Oh man, that does make sense, I.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Have to say, I most certainly fit in with.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
A stance of humor.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Oh yeah, and quite guttural as well. We won't want
we really don't want to go into it. I don't
think we'd be able to actually, but yeah. In Rather
Far Traveled went down the trait.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Ancient peoples were kind of nasty, you know. We hear
some of the Roman humor that was just I mean
toilet humor, literally toilet humor.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
What's fron with that.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
It's a tradition that's carried on to this day.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
It is. I think if you're from the north of
England and in Scotland, I think some of the Scandinavian
legacy is actually we have a very different sense of
humor to those in the South of England. For example,
in Rather Far Traveled got as far as the Kingdom
of Georgia, where he fought some battles. You know, this
(33:26):
is on the Silk Road, which ultimately leads to China.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
You think about the north when you think about the
Silk Road. It doesn't mind, you don't.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
But the fact that he's called the far Traveled, I mean,
there are twenty six runstones, they're called the vah ruinstones
describe going into essentially Saracen Land and then over to
and then over to Georgia. Whether got further well, unfortunately
(34:03):
as yet and we're not too sure, but most certainly
they were aware of the Black Sea, you know. And
again we can't think of this as a unified country
or anything like that. That comes eventually with time and
actually Christianity, I suppose. But you know these are independent groups. Yeah,
(34:29):
you know groups and all of this, and we know
some of their leaders, and some of them are mythical,
maybe based with a bit of truth, but you know,
lots of sagas around the campfire, you know, a bit
of mead, a little bit too much mead perhaps, And
then of course you know someone who I don't know,
(34:51):
for example, you know, rescued a few sheep. Certainly you know,
had a valiant struggle against warriors and beasts in all
of this, and yeah, actually it was just a shepherd
kind of thing. But yeah, if we just come back
to Gascony, because again I've got some further quotes around Gascony.
(35:18):
For example, these are in the Letters and Decrees of
Pope John. The eighth Gascony in the eight eighties was
in full desolation. No traveler ventured to cross it, especially
in its western part, which was more affected than the others.
The Bishop of Oche, also then eight seventy nine, explains
(35:42):
that there had only three suffragists installed within the eastern seats,
and the west was totally deprived of pastors. So they've
done quite a bit of a number in Gascony, you know,
they have really raided. And I can give you a
(36:03):
bit of a flavor also of some of the things
that they were taking. So for example, when you think
of you know, when you think of raids, you think, hmm,
what are they taking, you know, And I think I've
answered this with yes, they're leaving, you know people. In
(36:25):
other words, we also know there was a quite a
famous battle, I suppose, which with Steymied I should say,
the advance of the Norse. And this is at the
Battle of Tala. But we get something else from this,
(36:51):
and again this comes from the catillery of San Pierre
de Condom, where there is a reference to the possession
of a venerated relic, which was a cross that was
taken back from a Norse leader called Arald that's Harold
(37:13):
for me and you, and he had this relic around
his neck. So I mean, this doesn't, you know, mean
too much. I don't know what the relic exactly was,
but it gives you a bit of an idea that
if this is what they're doing, they're going into churches
(37:35):
as well and taking particular relics. What else did they take? Right?
And you know, Gascony is under the control of it's
an independent kingdom, kind of under the dukes and kings
of Aquitan. We know a very famous leader of Aquitaine
(37:59):
who's Eleanor She comes around in the twelfth century. But
there is this idea that's been muted that the kings
of Akitan let the Norse in so they could go
and do a number to the king, to the carol Engines.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
And I can't like too much that, you know, there
was a woman operating in that position anyway, No.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Much later but you know, I'm skipping ahead a little bit,
if you know, I need to remark on this. Eventually
what happens though, is and this is up for contention.
I'm not saying I necessarily agree with this. The Norse
are eventually stopped, and there is a view that they
(38:53):
didn't leave Gascony, they stayed and settled, and this view
where we can begin to form a bit of a
temple link. Actually, you know, if this is true, it
certainly whether they settled it doesn't matter for this because
Aquitan would end up getting back on its from its
(39:17):
knees and then became very famous in medieval history for
the quality of its shipbuilding. In fact, when the English
took over, they frequently referred to I think as Bayon
actually for the quality of their ships, and most ships
(39:37):
were ordered from there. And this ship making tradition extended
up the west coast to the places like Bordeaux and
crucially La Rochelle. And so it might be in fact
that you know, when we just begin to look at
(39:59):
things that that ship, that shipbuilding, you know, it become
a very big maritime power. Aquitaine and Eleanor who ends
up marrying well the French king and then the English king,
not at the same time, but to do that. Yeah,
(40:24):
it's possible that that ship making tradition actually came from
the descendants of the original shipmakers, the Norse.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
That would make perfect sense.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
More research is needed for that. What I'm not saying
is that if you from Gascony, you're clearly Viking. But
it would be interesting for some DNA testing, unfortunately, which
is banned in France. So how we would end up
doing that, I'm not sure, but it's a theory. There
(40:57):
is another thing though, you know, now we've mentioned and
remember the Norse had what were called fingers, not fingers things,
and these things are essentially parliament. So the Icelandic parliament
(41:17):
is called the old finger you know, the oldest parliament going.
Actually it might just very well be that Gascony and Aquitim,
which was a part of There is a bit of
an It's a bit unusual because they didn't develop a
(41:38):
feudal system until relatively late for feudal Europe. And it
just got me thinking, before you know, we we came
on air. I do wonder whether or not that these
you know, free assemblies of of you know, are free
(41:59):
men essentially is why feudalism didn't take routes until relatively later.
But also why it's not that much of a problem
with Eleanor. You know, she's from a tradition where you know,
women were certainly face and you know, were much more
(42:23):
independent than women in Europe generally were. It's interesting and again,
you know, just to you know, come back to Gascony.
The reality is that you know, Gascony, well, monastery building
(42:45):
comes to an abrupt stop. Now there's no churches built
for about two hundred years. Bear in mind that they're
also a pagan certainly in this period. I do wonder
whether there is just something there again that says, well,
if they did control the area churches building churches orway,
(43:08):
is it that they just devastated the economy so much
so that you know, there was no money for anything.
But if that was the case, why would they keep
on raiding? Right? But from Gascony? If I just bring
up Ower Matt, this one's a little clever for prefer
(43:33):
but if you you on the western coast, you can
see Bordeaux and then you've got the Garon River. The
area south of the Goon on this map is the
area that we're talking about Gascony. What you can see
there is that they got as deep as to lose also,
(43:56):
and we don't when you think of to lose, you
do not think, oh, it's near the coast now. But
they got there twice. They seized to lease an eight
four to four and eight six four.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
It's it's wound because some of these places they were
they would take it and move along and then come
back and take it again. Yeah, some of those cities
were taken like three or four times.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Absolutely, I mean the whilst Paris, Paris isn't that important
the city. In fact, the siege of Paris, of which
there were many, so for example eight four five, eight
five six, eight six one eight six five and then
two years between a eight five and eight eight six
(44:52):
that latter siege. Essentially the result is that the follow
then also and tod Bollow get Normandy.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
Hmm.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
But Paris isn't that significant, these monasteries there, It's an
insignificant city, really strategic, but not about well if it
wasn't for the Norse constantly raiding it, you know, and
the strategic need to stop the you know, the North
traveling down the river systems and what have you, it
(45:25):
wouldn't be the capital of France today. So we've got
a you know, a legacy there which says, you know what,
the the imfluence of the Vikings in Europe, I think
has been deliberately actually tarnished, suppressed exactly. You know, you
(45:52):
have a a initially pagan group of people who's here's
something you might not think about, but people like me
do we were told by the Church or you know,
these were pagans, they became Christian and you know, and
(46:14):
all of that, and before that they were evil, you know,
murderers who just yeah, we were the innocents and I'm sorry,
that's just not true. In fact, after one seizure at Paris,
they moved to the city of Hamburg, as the Pope
(46:34):
had installed a new bishop there, the first one with
one mission to convert all the Pagans. And you see,
that's the nice, pleasant version of the story is they
were being converted either by baptisms of drowning or in
boiling boiling, so you know, who's the innocent party. But
(46:57):
if we want to just look at the extent of
the influence, not just into into France, but think about
in the English speaking world, All of our days of
the week are named after pagan belief systems. Monday is Moonday,
Tuesday tis Day an ass God Odin's Day, Wednesday, Thursday, Freguesday, Friday,
(47:27):
and then we're back onto Saturn, you know, and then
the sun. You know, it's it's a little difficult to
swallow that, you know that these were just doing a
group of raiding pirates with now no culture, because it's
just totally untrue.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
Can I ask you something? You know, we talked about
the Norse going to the New World, and you know,
particularly Canada. You know, where I grew up in Oklahoma,
there was a giant stone known as a heaven Room Stone.
(48:08):
Sorry if he's just making a fit, and it's you know,
we used to climb on it when when we were
kids and play on it. I had friends that lived
nearby there and I would go visit. Later.
Speaker 1 (48:25):
It was.
Speaker 3 (48:27):
Finally translated by a lady named Gloria Farley, and it
was there was a date there of ten twelve and
it was said to be you know, runic riding. So
if it was ten twelve, does that make sense in
(48:48):
the timeline?
Speaker 1 (48:51):
Well, the nonsensetainly around the still just about using the
In fact, the movement from runes to the alphabet probably
took a lot longer than I think people realize it's possible.
I urged caution, and this is where you know it.
(49:15):
Catch me on one day, I'll think, oh, it's possible,
catch me another role, dismiss it. I'm very much on
the you've got the Kensington Runstone. I suppose it's the
more famous one which describes you know, bloodied people. You know,
it's in ruins, and it's from I think thirteen eighty
(49:36):
something like that. The reality is that's very late, right,
the ruins. It's not impossible, by the way. I'm just
saying it's late, and.
Speaker 3 (49:50):
The descriptionicity of that been established.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
But it has and then it hasn't, and then it hasn't.
It hasn't. These mounters for per absolutely everything.
Speaker 3 (50:02):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (50:03):
The problem is if you've returned to find most of
your party with blood, the last thing I'd be doing
is going m pass me in that chisel. I'm going
to start carving. I'd probably want to get out of
there again, you know, capturing another day. No, of course,
that's what you would do. You would explain, you know,
(50:23):
what had happened, and you know, essentially give them some offering.
But again we're not these you know, if against intrument
stand is correct and genuine, we would have been carved
by Christian.
Speaker 3 (50:40):
Was that dated? Was there a date on it or
how were they able to establish a date?
Speaker 1 (50:46):
So there was a date on it? Yes, the again,
some of the so some of the ruins you can
tell the you can tell that they're much more recent
because of the way that runs develop And unfortunately we
(51:08):
only found out about these umlauts really from the nineteen sixties.
So we know that the stone was found in the
eighteen nineties. It's not possible for someone really to have
forged what was on there or is it? You know, yeah,
(51:30):
he's so he's so tricky with it. I mean, you
know personally, you know, I think his name is all
the Foreman. He was, you know, a migrant from Sweden't
think it was, and I think it's thirteen sixty two.
Actually I think it's dated too. And he says he
(51:52):
finds it, you know, in a tree route and all
of that. Look, it's certainly possible. The naise I think
we've got to establish used river systems. They were with
one hundred percent proof were in North America. They had
(52:12):
a ship repair facility at lance and Meadows, the United Nations,
you know UNESCO site established from nineteen sixty. It proves
that they were at least in Canada. We know they
referenced three places that they've visited, Markland, Vinland and Helloland.
(52:34):
You know Markland the wood wooded area, Helloland the plate
well literally the hell you know, nothing grows there. And Vinland,
yes it could mean the place of vines, but fertile pastures.
There's absolutely no doubt in me that they were on
the Eastern seaboard. They had a name for the natives
(52:56):
scaling Gar, which unfortunately I can't give you the trance
because it's quite rude. You know, they had known some
so this is extensive contact. By the way, so we
know that they were in North America. That's not a doubt.
But do you just I suppose have to make the
(53:16):
point when you might be familiar with the Norse raid
at Lindis Farm, Holy Island, which is said to have
began the Viking period. And you know there's a chapel
(53:38):
on London's Fans established by Aiden, who I think was
a contemporary student of Columba in six hundred and thirty five,
is suggested on June the eighth, seven, nine to three
that the Vikings basically raided. Okay, that's written about quite
(54:01):
a few years after the event. But there's zero, none,
nothing in the archaeological record that supports any such trade. Nothing,
Now what you're going to get from an historium. So
I'm going to pick on one Dan snow Good historian,
(54:21):
and he says, oh, you know the archaology has been lost. Well,
mm hmmm. We've got to play fair hair. If someone
says the Kensington Roonstone's reel, the first thing that people
ask for is where's your evidence? Provide evidence proven? Well,
(54:41):
I also say that about Linda's farm, no reason to
doubt that people wrote about it. You know that they
all the raided and suddenly and somehow they left from
neither of us, and with brilliant fortune, managed to sail
across the North Sea to well, you know, a monastery.
(55:02):
There was very good luck, wasn't it. But if there's
no evidence, right, we're just basing it on the you know,
the musings of people like Alcoyin of York, who's nowhere
near is about six hundred miles away in Paris at
the court of Charla man So to answer just shortly,
(55:25):
I don't know about the Oklahoma roomstones, the veracity, et cetera.
All I can say is it's possible. In fact, all
I can say with the extent that the Vikings were
invading from the south of France, the east and north,
(55:46):
you know, Spain, from Santiago, et cetera, is I can
also tell you that I don't know what they took
from some of the Church's cathedrals, that they loundered, any relics,
anything that might be more interesting to people who have
(56:07):
involved in the rund the chateau mysteries and the templars,
et cetera, you know, to you know, the people who
are interested in Christian history. I suppose I can't rule out,
not that it's up to me to arbor to these things,
but I can't rule out that the Nose didn't take something.
I can't equally say that it didn't end up in
(56:30):
North America.
Speaker 3 (56:34):
Well, we've run right up to the edge, and before
we get out of here, I wanted to remind people
that your book, written with Tim Wallace Murphy, Uncharted, is
on sale on Amazon and I think there's an audiobook also, yep,
(56:54):
so people can can can do. I'm going to have
to start getting some audio, so I think that would
be interesting. I'll just have to be careful because as
soon as I start listening, I'll fall asleep no matter
how interesting the material is, especially if it's a good voice.
Has that guy got a good voice?
Speaker 1 (57:14):
Nigel? How's a very good advice? Yet?
Speaker 3 (57:15):
Oh my goodness, next one, I want you to do
it by yourself.
Speaker 1 (57:21):
I think I send people to sleep.
Speaker 3 (57:23):
Well. People love your voice. They love they always say
that you know that.
Speaker 1 (57:28):
Well, look everyone at the end of the show, so
you can wake up again. Now that's right.
Speaker 3 (57:33):
Yeah, Visu's awake. She's trying to get out the back door.
So I guess I better get going. But thank you
so much for bringing this new information out and look
forward to further developments of it, because I'm sure there's
going to be more. You've just started to pull the
thread so when Vikings ruled the world, I can see
(57:55):
it now a new series. All right, guys, thanks everybody
for watching and listening wherever you are, and we'll see
you next week. Thanks starting Bowe
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