307 - The Arborist Writer and Director Andrew Mudge and Don's Shameless Self-Promotion - No Win Scenario

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Rolling. Okay, great, can you cheer up? No, I'm gonna
do my goofy like Hi, run and welcome. I know
you're just gonna it's not gonna say hi everyone and welcome.
You're just gonna be miserable? Is that because you realize
this is the Dawn Podcast and.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
You're definitely hijacked it. You're the I called it. Why
didn't I predicted this when I pitched it to you?
I did?

Speaker 1 (00:23):
You did? But it's because please, are you gonna add
these episodes? I'd be thrilled if you did.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
No.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
No, So that's the problem. This would not exist.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
That doesn't mean that you get to hijacket just to
shill your products?

Speaker 1 (00:35):
What products? What products am I shilling?

Speaker 3 (00:38):
Movies?

Speaker 1 (00:39):
You mean me Arborist that's coming out in February of
twenty twenty six, of which I was one of five
thousand producers according to you, Yes, the Arborist, Uh streaming,
just go.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Buy it, watch it?

Speaker 1 (00:51):
But what else? What else? What are the products?

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Do you mean my book? So the movie's coming out
in February, And of course my novel Ascendence drops March
twenty fourth or twenty twenty six, so it may already
be out available where gourmet books.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Or I'm embarrassed. I'm always embarrassed to know you, but
I'm embarrassed for you.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Why are you embarrassed for me? This has been called
Can I tell you what this is called? A random
person online who got an advanced copy called it a
science fiction game of Thrones. I didn't even pay for
that review. Can you imagine science?

Speaker 2 (01:27):
I swear to god I paid for that review because
I knew how much this book science. I paid that.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
We'll talk about the book later, but I did welcome everyone,
Welcome everyone, to everyone to the twenty twenty six year
of No Win Scenario podcast. I am Don Checkter, and
this crabby magoo is Trevor Chamberlain. Trevor, I don't care.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
Maybe with the original idea, who's being left out in
the cold?

Speaker 1 (01:56):
What comes next?

Speaker 2 (01:58):
I don't know? You tell me don see your.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
Show now lost without my guidance and my leadership is
what you are.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
I haven't listened to anything you've said in the last
twenty seconds.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
Damn it, Trevor.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
We had a shit line.

Speaker 4 (02:12):
Two friends who hate each other, rude talking science fiction.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
It has become this cultural phenomenon.

Speaker 4 (02:18):
Along with some special guests.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
I appreciate what Star Trek did to me.

Speaker 3 (02:23):
I would love to have this book get banned.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
And that wasn't acting, that wasn't real. Do you know
what our YouTube channel is absolutely not No Win Scenario
with Trevor and Dawn.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Okay, we're not doing that. Boom, Well, Trevor, I'm gonna
move past this little spat of ours.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
You know you always complained that I was wearing the
brand new No Win Scenario merch and shirts.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
So for this episode, hold on, hold on the the
No Win Scenario shirt with misspelled words.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
That cycle was all last year. I got brand new ones.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
Wait are you literally blaming it on A twenty twenty five?

Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yes I've got brand new shirts. Yes, yes, brand new shirts.
They're great. I've demoed it works for me, works for
my kids. Uh, maybe you'll get one one day. I
figured I can always be all a big Noben Scenario shill,
so I wouldn't fitted. So I'm gonna strip for you, sir,
prepare yourself, and I wore this T shirt especially for you. Now.

(03:24):
I don't know if you know what this is? Can
you read it for our listeners?

Speaker 3 (03:30):
So?

Speaker 2 (03:30):
What it is is that it's a play on South
Park and it says Babylon Park, and it has the
four key characters from South Park in costumes of characters
from Babylon five. And it is the stupidest thing I
have ever seen ed it totally tracks that not only

(03:55):
would you wear it, but you would pay money.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
I've had this for quite some time. This was a
really funny There was an actual, like you know, animated
thing of this this mashup, and it worked really well.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
And you use the eight cents from that sausage company
that we've made we find at revenue to pay for
that show.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
We haven't made sense, man, We've made.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
Dollars dollars, how many dollars?

Speaker 1 (04:15):
Like eleven eleven American dollars.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
My YouTube channel has made sixty eight cents so far.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
So really, what do you do on your YouTube channel?
Tell us what you do? Actually we don't care. So
what what's your YouTube channel? We'll talk about it in
the Trevor porn dot xx. Yes, that's it, Trevor porn
dot xx. Oh, yes, we will talk about it in
the future.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
We'll talk about in the future.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Do you know have you figured out it's a new
year So have you figured out what our YouTube channel is? Here?
The No Win Scenario Podcast, because you know, the opening
of our show has you not knowing what are and
it says it right there at No Win Scenario Podcast.
Can you say that? You think you could say.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
It at No Win Scenario Podcast?

Speaker 1 (04:54):
You know some animals can't be trained. So you wanna
talk sci fi?

Speaker 3 (04:58):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (04:58):
Sure, because we have a lot of guests this year.
You know why why I don't know, I'll have to
book Yeah, because we don't book anyone right now? Have
you booked anyone?

Speaker 2 (05:06):
I have not booked a single person. I have contacted
people and instead it's really weird. Instead of saying no,
they just don't get back to me at all.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
So, guys, just something serious. So part of like the
book publishing process is that when you have the advanced
copy and I'm learning this from the publisher, you know,
you go out and you request blurbs from established authors
or known people to see, you know, if you get
their quote on your book, to get a praise page,
things like that. So they said, contact everyone, anyone you know,

(05:41):
and I was shocked because I'm not friends with any
of these people. But I have a bunch of people
that I've interviewed over the years, going back fifteen twenty years,
as well as because I teach at university, like I
have a university email address and like a credentials that way,
so I emailed everyone through my university email. So I
emailed people like Verner Hertzog didn't get back to me

(06:04):
if I emailed it once the years and can't get
back to me. But I emailed Andy Weir and who
wrote The Martian, and like Gregory Maguire who I interviewed once,
who did wrote Wicked, Adrian Tchaikowsky. I believe all these
really famous people j Michael Sazinski who did Bablon five
fo I love who I even have a thing in
my book about. And you know what, they didn't ignore

(06:28):
me almost. I'd say like ninety five percent of like
the twenty people or thirty people that should have ignored me,
Like really they also really nice ones. Yeah, where for
the most part they don't do it. You know, I
think that's true for some of them. Some of them
were like, I'm writing a book now, I can't do it.
But I was really surprised they were like, you know, oh,
I appreciate reaching out like it's really nice, Like I

(06:48):
just don't do this anymore because I get a lot
of requests things like that. But I was really stoked
because I got a few just last week. A few
quotes can coming in, so the book covers being finalized
right now. I have an advanced copy here you which
you can read, which you can read, but really the

(07:08):
big coup so like, right off, sorry, I apologize. I
thought New Year i'd be nicer to you.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
Oh you're kicking it off. But with grace.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
I've got a quote from Aaron McDonald who's the scientific
science advisor for Star Trek. Her name was actually in
the also on behind on the board on Starfleet Academy,
which I know you'll get around to watching one day.
She wrote a great blurb that I'll probably go on there.
Derek Tyler Attico, who we had as a guest on
the show, who wrote the autobiography of Benjamin Cisco. He
gave me a great.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
Quote, great great author, great interview.

Speaker 1 (07:42):
I got a great review from the Manhattan Book Review,
but really the one that was like, wow, I'm so
grateful is actually one from Ray Cruzwild, who I think
you know, So, what do you do about him.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
Ray Hurstweile. We worked on a documentary. What was it
maybe fifteen years ago.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
I was around like two thousand and seven and eight
something like that.

Speaker 2 (08:02):
It was on break hurse Wile and you were there.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
I forgot you were involved with that.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
I was a B camera operator on that. For for.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
Really must have been a double B.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, you know what I think it was. It was.
It was definitely C or D. But but yeah, we
worked on it, and I met him and had a
few conversations with him.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
So he's this very interesting guy. He's so the documentary
was called Trade Sendate Man. It was directed by Barry Totlemy.
When he couldn't come out from California to work on it,
he would hire me to sort of produce and manage
a crew and we would go and film Ray at
his house and doing events and all that stuff.

Speaker 2 (08:39):
Ray lives in the area.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
He lives right around the corner. And he's a futurist
and inventor, computer scientist, theorist. He you know, back then
he was talking about you know, he didn't invent the
idea of the singularity, but he made it popular with
his writings and his and his research. The fact that
actually become and it's coming true the fact, you know,
and that's the fact that people techology is exponentially h growing,

(09:03):
and that there's going to be a point where the
technology outpaces human ability, and that there's going to want
to be this merger of you know, humanity and technology.
That's already happened, and you know, it was controversial ish
back then, but now with like the rate of AI
that's exploding, people see it in their everyday lives. And

(09:23):
so I think by twenty twenty nine is when he
predicted we'd hit that point.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
So I assumed we already hit it.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
No, we're we're aiming towards it. And he's got some
books coming out too. But we did this film years
and years ago, and luck has it that at the
end of last year he started to come into my
studio to do some work with us on streaming and
broadcasting stuff like that and some recordings, and so I
got to you know, reconnect with him and.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
Uh, he regarded celebrityes connections with major celebrities in the
sci fi communities. He's very he's the hell yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
So it was great. So his cover, his sorry, his
quote will be right on the cover. Also so I'll
have that cover for you in a week or two.

Speaker 3 (10:06):
That'd be great.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
And it drops March twenty fourth on Amazon. Pre sales
will start soon and that is the end of what
I'm selling. So what do you want to talk about?

Speaker 2 (10:17):
Have you watched Plurpise yet?

Speaker 1 (10:19):
So you want to go from talking about my book?

Speaker 2 (10:21):
I want to do anything to get away from your crap.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
So I have seen it. I've seen this first season.
First season has been over for a while.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
What do you think.

Speaker 2 (10:32):
As a Vince fan? Yeah, who has the.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
Vince gilligan?

Speaker 2 (10:38):
Who who holds the theory or belief that while Breaking
Bad is very good, it doesn't hold a candle to
Better Call Saul.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
Oh my god, I could not disagree with you anymore.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
Better Call Saul is his finest work, and better Breaking
Bad is great and iconic, But Breaking Bad gave him
the freedom to do what he wanted to do. I
agree Better Call Saul is. I find it to be
damn near perfect from beginning to end. I don't with

(11:12):
Kim Wexler being just one of the great characters written
in a long time.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
I think the characters are great in that I think
the acting was great, I understand the pacing he was
going for, but I just did have the attention span
for it for that show.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
Oh so, so it's your fault, not the shows.

Speaker 1 (11:35):
Well, I think most people didn't have the attention span
for that show. Really.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
I mean, I think sign it did. It still did
pretty well. I mean it did do Breaking Bad numbers,
But I think that's Breaking Bad.

Speaker 1 (11:45):
I think was one of the best television shows ever
put on air. I think he had the best acting
across the show was up there with the wire and
you know, sopranos and things like that.

Speaker 2 (11:54):
I don't know if it's up there with the wire.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
Well, the wires probably supreme, except for why don't you
see though? I mean, so it's like on whole. I
think Breaking Bad on whole is a great show. But
that show moved and a lot of things happened. Maybe
there was too much story in Breaking Bad. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
I loved it now I loved it too.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
Better call Saul. I was always hoping for like a
little bit more. A little bit more happened. But I
think going back to Pluribis, I think a lot of
the criticism that I was reading about the show was
that they would take an action that could have been
done in the teas or in the first act of
a show, and they stretched it out for three episodes,

(12:34):
and like, yes, it's setting the mood of her isolation
and despair. That could have been two episodes or one episode.
I love the opening of Plurbis with the bookstore was hysterical,
and I feel like the rug got pulled out from
me a little bit because I thought it was going
to be that witty at that point, at that pacing maybe,
and then it just stops, and I get you got

(12:57):
to get through her despair and all that stuff.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
The character development, Yeah, yeah, you've never been one for
character development.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
Oh you're gonna do you? All you care about is
world building?

Speaker 2 (13:05):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (13:06):
No, But I think where are we at the end
of the show the first season?

Speaker 2 (13:12):
Where we are is that spoilers. Where we are is
that she has She had her principles, she abandoned them
out of loneliness, which I think she felt feels is weak,

(13:36):
but gave into them anyways, and then came back round
to her principles with a without spoiling it a level
of conviction that we could only describe as atomic, And
I thought that that was a really fascinating character arc.
I mean she I was not a fan of the

(13:58):
first episode, like it.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yeah, it's too wacky in the beginning or something it.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
You know, it reminded me to even though these shows
couldn't be further apart, it just reminded me of a
lot of what I didn't like about Game of Thrones,
where there would just these whole episodes that were just
set up, just set up, just speaking Game of Thrones.
Oh no, did you.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
Know that my book has been called the science fiction
Game of Thrones? A sentence coming out at March six.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
I hope it sells a lot. I hope it sells
a lot of books. I personally think that that's a
that's damning praise as somebody who's not the biggest Game
of Thrones fan, but it hooked me. Clarbus hooked me
on the second episode, and I thought, okay, you want.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
To get deep, get deep.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
Okay, as somebody who has who's about to turn fifty,
you're going to be fifty, somebody who's about to turn fifty.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
And so that with that, we're looking for a new
co who has happy birthday? When's your birthday?

Speaker 2 (15:05):
I'm not revealing it here. Uh, somebody's about to turn
fifty as somebody who as.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
I think the party hear me?

Speaker 2 (15:16):
I think I did, yeah, and then I thought I
had better thoughts after that. Uh and uh, anybody within
my age group, I think you you uh, you know,
you've you've had you know, some deaths of some some
close people, and you get a sense of mortality and

(15:38):
aging and and all that stuff. And speaking only for myself,
I really don't have existential questions about anything anymore. It's
just we live, we die. That's it. I'm bringing it
to Purbis Pluribus shows or movies or books that grapple
with existential things, they really don't they They just didn't
do it for me anymore. Pluribus does like it it

(16:01):
It had compelling existential questions, not about who we are
in the universe, is more of like you know, are
are we is our nature? Worth preserving person?

Speaker 1 (16:20):
You know what time it is? Time for Don's and today,
oh god, today, Don's Tangent is all about ascendance. Ascendants
coming out March twenty twenty sixth. Would you like to
read a bit of the book, Sure now you can?

Speaker 2 (16:40):
No, no, no, no, no no, and.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
That's it for Don's.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
I actually want to do this because this is this
is but that was just topic. This is rather important.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
But let's go back to plurimis for a second. For
one second, what do not bend my cover? I think,
oh my god, old man.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
I think it at let me just finish. I think
it just it asked in seeing existential question excidential questions
that that have just become run of the mill. I
mean existential stuff has become run of the mill. I
think it's asking fresh questions.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
My concern is that I don't feel it doesn't feel
like there's a plan for season two. I don't seeing
the show's going. I don't know if there is. Obviously
we don't know what's in.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
Are you like? What are you like one of those
people that said that all the time about Lost, like
they don't have a plan.

Speaker 1 (17:27):
Yeah, they didn't, and they said they didn't. Have you
seen Lost later.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
In the seasons they said they didn't they had a plan,
and then you know, studio interference and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
Point being that's my concern is the strike fizzle out,
you know a little bit, and it could take years
before it comes back. I mean, stranger things. Was that
nine years from start to finish? What Stranger Never?

Speaker 2 (17:52):
I abandoned that crap a long time ago. Okay, how
was the final season? It was?

Speaker 1 (17:56):
Okay, it was better than the last season. I just
you know, after not watching it for like three or
four years or whatever it is, you just kind of
lose steam. So season four was a lot of these shows.
I'm concerned that there's no plan and then years go
by and it's not being set up for something.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
I think Vince Gilgan has enough pull right now where
he can have a plan and.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
Or decide what he wants to get the backing. I
am excited for a Foundation to come back. You shall
really get into that big fan of Foundation.

Speaker 2 (18:22):
That's Becky Ferg's right, Rebecca for Oh no, that's Silo.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
That's Silo, Yes, Silo. Rebcca Ferguson's great. Rebeca Ferguson could
be great in a movie or TV adaptation of Ascendance,
which comes out March twenty fourth, twenty twenty six, failable
on Amazon and all your book loving stores.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
This book by Don Checkter called Ascendance.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
A novel just in case you want, well, you might
be confused by this. The thing it's a box or something.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
You know, it's so funny. Inside it says it says
copyright twenty twenty six by Don Checkter, and then below
that is company at the logo and it says Charles
River Media, and then below that it says in association
with Charles River Media. So Charles River Media in association
with below that.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yeah, because you have not no, this is this is
how print works. You see the designer and the publisher
and all that information.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Fantastic. Uh. Don did something very uh heartfelt. I'm surprised
to say. And it while we fight and bicker all
the time, I can honestly say that Don is a
good friend of mine.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
And that's been Don's tent, and he's been.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
He can be very compassionate and empathetic to other people.
What he did is that he dedicated this book or
in memory of Johnny Lee Davenport and Don, can you
give us a background on who Johnny is?

Speaker 1 (19:57):
Wow? Well, we've talked about Johnny Lee in the past,
the previous episodes. I know you don't listen to them
or remember them. The age thing. You're not kidding, I'm
not kidding. Johnny Lee was an amazing actor. You know,
we we worked with him when we did the Sentence Anthology,
but you know, he was this giant in like the

(20:17):
theater scene. I mean everyone who was acted I think
with him for decades and decades knew him for his voice,
his acting ability. He did movies. I'm blaking in a
bunch of the movies, but I know he did like
the Fay was like the one that he did, the
one with Jennifer Laurence, some.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
Like did I think It's called Joy?

Speaker 1 (20:34):
Ye was enjoy.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
Think he was very good. He had scenes with de
Niro and he held his own with de Niro.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
Yah, yeah, and uh he would be great. But he
was in like every play in like in this area.
And he came to us during the filming of the
first anthology as like a recommendation. We just needed someone
with a good voice to come in and do this.
And I remember him coming in, know his lines, waiting
for setups, reading a sci fi book. I'm like, Oh,
this guy's reading a sci fi book. He's awesome. He'd
get up there. He had such a presence and a
grateful and so when we came time to think about

(21:02):
doing a second film, I was like, I want to
just write a film where this guy speaks, and that's
really where the second one came from. And so we
became friends. And you know he passed away in twenty twenty,
but you know, his voice and the character that he
played in those films is in this book as well.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
And Don wrote in memory of Johnny Lee Davenport nineteen
fifty to twenty twenty, a giant on stage and screen,
whose present, whose presence commanded meaning, and a voice that
unearthed truth with grace and gravity. His spirit helped breathe
life into ascendants, and his absence still reverberates. The echoes

(21:41):
of his voice still speak. This book is for him.
Every word that you wrote here is absolutely true.

Speaker 1 (21:51):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
He was awesome and I miss him very much.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
And I think, what give me my book back? You
can't have this, think think what he.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
Can hear you here?

Speaker 1 (22:02):
Yeah? No, I appreciate it, and I appreciate your reading it.
I know it's it's hard to sound things out, and
I know it's a time did trip on something We're
not going to fix it. And I know it's the
first time you've read poetry. Yes, so it's a big
day for you as you approach your sixtieth birthday. You
can make me fun of this picture of me. I'm

(22:22):
not showing the camera at the end. Uh, there is
there is acknowledgments in here.

Speaker 2 (22:29):
Look ridiculous. I mean I always say you will be ridicted,
but you actually like that's the photo?

Speaker 1 (22:34):
Do you want to? You know what I think? Because
we talked about the anthology, why don't you just read
the end of the acknowledgment section from and to the cast.
So this is for the folks who helped with the
original film series. Please, you're such a good reader. Guys,
you need the glasses you want to see you my
readers with me, My readers readers awesome.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yep uh. And we said I don't call him my cheaters.
That would be yeah. That's a whole other generation. And
to the cast, crew and supporters of the Ascendants anthology.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
Good job, your creative energy mean it for real, for
real work meading for real.

Speaker 2 (23:17):
Your creative energy and tyroless work breathed life into this
universe and gave birth to something far weirder than I
suspect any of you realized. You only you have only
yourselves to blame. That is so you. Thanks to all
of you, this was a team effort. Any errors are

(23:41):
obviously someone else's fault.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
That's you, Don, So that concludes Don's tangent. Yeah about
ascendence coming out.

Speaker 2 (23:50):
This whole podcast for the last two years has been
Don's tangent.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
I think you just you just realized that. Yeah, okay,
well I think with that we should get onto our guest.
What do you think? Yes, I'm excited that we have
Andrew Mudge, who wrote and directed the Arborist film that
I was involved with as a producer. I was really
involved with pre production of.

Speaker 2 (24:09):
What Tank the film?

Speaker 3 (24:10):
Right?

Speaker 2 (24:10):
Was your involvement?

Speaker 1 (24:11):
That's right? Well, I was, you know, someone involved with
the pre production. Production was tough because of COVID and
stuff like that, so I wasn't there as much during production.
But then I got more involved on the post side, and.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
There was a screaming of it at the Independent Film
Festival Boston and was a sold out crow until your
name showed up the credits at about three quarters of
the audience to walk down.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
They just collapsed, Yeah, clasps the ground. Well, we have
an interview. Well, actually we have an interview, but Andrew
is coming in to talk with us, So stay tuned by.

Speaker 4 (24:39):
Did you know? Don is not at all requesting you
purchase a copy of his sci fi techno thriller book, Ascendants,
right now available at ascendencebook dot com, Amazon dot com,
Barnes and Noble, and wherever books are sold. Please note
Trevor has left the building.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
You want to join us, you want to maybe focus
on Sorry, we yell it, we.

Speaker 3 (25:02):
Just oh yeah, I heard you. Guys have your own
little thing.

Speaker 1 (25:05):
Yeah, he's because he's little spris.

Speaker 3 (25:07):
You don't want me in the middle breaking you. This
is the way the thing is the way you want it.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
Yeah, he doesn't want to look at me.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
It's not the way I want to How do you
want it?

Speaker 1 (25:14):
You don't want it to be.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
I don't want to be here.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
You don't want to be here.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
I don't want to be working with you.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
You were twenty minutes late.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
It was just the two of us, would be fine.

Speaker 3 (25:21):
I see, well you talk about makes me feel a
little better.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
You don't watch movies. You don't read.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
No, you don't watch movies and I don't read.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
That's right, you out of backwards. Yeah, you don't watch them.

Speaker 2 (25:33):
Trying to make your book right now?

Speaker 1 (25:35):
A sentence?

Speaker 2 (25:35):
No, I'm trying to read Marcia Clark's autobiography about the O. J.
Simpson trifle from years ago.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
Wow, amazing, that is really captivating content. Yep, good for you.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
On page two, you're not wrong.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
Well we have a special guest, Yes we do. Who
do we have here?

Speaker 3 (25:56):
Andrew Mudge, local local filmmaker.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Hi, that's it. We're here to talk about a film.

Speaker 3 (26:04):
Yeah. I made a little film, sort of supernatural horror
thriller called The Arborist. It's it's out now. It's on
Amazon and you know, all the streaming platforms and I
hope people see it.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
Great. Let's look at the trailer. What are you touching
me for? You see that the little cue? Did he
get that he touched? That was the cue to throw
it to the trailer? Can you go to your trailer?

Speaker 2 (26:35):
It's a beautiful property. You got been here a long time?

Speaker 5 (26:39):
Well, my life plus whatever's left of it.

Speaker 6 (26:43):
Well, if you want to brief me on the job,
we can start right away.

Speaker 1 (26:48):
On all of those things.

Speaker 3 (26:50):
Trees are all marked.

Speaker 1 (26:52):
Everything that marked gets destroyed, destroyed.

Speaker 5 (26:55):
There's a tractor and a splitter in the garage, grind
of stumps up.

Speaker 1 (27:10):
How many people even mansion anything.

Speaker 5 (27:14):
Just him?

Speaker 1 (27:15):
Do you see the old guy by himself?

Speaker 3 (27:18):
What is that place?

Speaker 2 (27:20):
Happier days? The tree is dying?

Speaker 1 (27:24):
What happened?

Speaker 2 (27:24):
But it became susceptible to fungus. At this point, it's
basically killing itself.

Speaker 6 (27:29):
Feel a way, feel the longing. When we share stories
of our loss, we kind of terms with our grief.
We realize we're not alone.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
What's out there?

Speaker 1 (27:46):
It's too dark?

Speaker 2 (27:47):
Whyat help me?

Speaker 1 (27:51):
I couldn't see.

Speaker 5 (27:53):
The book says that he does not leave the guilty unpunished,
the children and their children for the sin of the
famis to the third and fourth generation. Perhaps he's not.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
Telling what truth. Way, it doesn't lie.

Speaker 6 (28:18):
Children are not supposed to die before their parents.

Speaker 3 (28:21):
Where's my son?

Speaker 6 (28:25):
The world moves on, but for us, time is frozen
in its tracks.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
Full disclosure. I know a little bit about the film.
I'm a little bit.

Speaker 3 (28:42):
Uh don's of producer on it.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
I think more of more like your therapist sometimes.

Speaker 3 (28:48):
I don't know that many more than the producers on
Super Troopers.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
So there's really two hundred and super fifty five fifty
five producers on Super Tubers two. But you don't care
about three. Oh well, that's okay. Yeah, let's tell us
about the arborist.

Speaker 3 (29:04):
You know it took it was a long it was
a long projects. It's you know, you know that question
is you know one of those do I talk about
this story or the making of it. I love talking
about making up things because I think they're so interesting.
I can give you the little synopsis in this speel.
You know, it's about a grief stricken arbor a woman,

(29:25):
an arborist, who goes with her son to cut down
trees at this mysterious a state of an old man,
and weird, dark stuff starts to happen that's tied to
their personal history, and that's tied to the estate itself.
I was. It was Covid I had made I had
made a first feature film five years earlier. I just

(29:47):
had this I wanted to make another feature, which is
you know, anyone who has that impulse fucking shut that
down crazy.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
I wanted.

Speaker 3 (29:54):
I so wanted to make another future and it was
just in my bones for years. And then Covid. I
had a project that I was that I was really
getting ready to make over in South Africa, which is
actually where I made my first film. Covid happened, and
you know, like like everybody, it was just like everything
feels like the dreams just kind of popped, and like

(30:16):
what what is this? What am I going to do?
And the industry just seemed to have like completely stalled out.
And and I was a friend of mine had this
this house where they made Little Women and conquered Massachusetts,
and she said, go use the pool sometime. And I
went there. I couldn't believe this place. I didn't even

(30:36):
know my friend to own this place. And I said,
can I make a movie here? Like right away, I said,
can I I want to make.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
A movie Littler women? What do you want?

Speaker 3 (30:45):
I just said, I want to make I think I
want to make a horror movie. This place feels like
there's dark, there's something happened here, and and I have
to tell you something about that something did happen there.
So this is a little I've not heard this, I
have not.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
Told this is a No Wins exclusive.

Speaker 3 (31:03):
There we go all right. So I felt like you
walk onto this property and you're like, I don't know.
I just felt like, there's got to be a scary
movie here. There's a scary movie here, There's a horror
movie here, and they said, yes, I didn't even have
a story of mine. I spent this is the summer
of two thousand and one. I would spend days just
walking around the property with a notebook and just thinking

(31:25):
of every idea I could think of, and it just
kept coming back to ghosts. But what could I do
that's interesting with ghosts? You know? Kids, kids murdered, kids
in the woods, dressed up as animals. You know, I
just have these like visions of like pet cemetery kind
of costumes, and and then and then like characters of

(31:46):
course coming into this world unknowing, you know, like like
stories do. And and then it just sort of came together. Okay,
a woman, she's an Arborus. She comes with their son.
They've got a secret. They come to this place. This
place has seeks quts. They start discovering things, they start
seeing things. And then just let this be like a
slow burn, almost suspenseful, not jump scare. I'm not really

(32:10):
a hardcore horror guy with a capital H, which is maybe,
you know, to maybe a problem for the film, but
I don't.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
I love It's a benefit. I would just say I
loved it.

Speaker 3 (32:20):
I loved I loved the I loved I loved it.
It was so fun to think up and during COVID
and and the challenge of like one location, like I love,
I love like starting with restrictions, these are the rules.
You can't break these rules, and then and then three
actors leave it at that. Now where where where it
got hard is just my own naivete about the unions

(32:44):
and about like, okay, I can keep this thing so
small and low budget. That started to change, and that
the way that changed, going from like I want to
keep it my little film, my rules, my my style,
my I could to like bigger than me, and other
rules and unions and not just one but two that

(33:06):
started to kind of got out of my hand. Yeah,
it was like suddenly it was just like slipping through
my fingers, like and and we I'm proud that we
powered through. But you know, things happen. You know, it
costs more, and it was harder, and in the industry,
I don't know. I'm a dreamer. I'm such an optimist
and I just like I, Step I, I and you

(33:27):
are too. Like one of the reasons I've always felt
so grateful to Don is just like he also is
the kind of purely a dreamer in many ways, and
but like a lot.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
Of the nightmare that Trevor is right, Debbie Downer over here.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
I have dreams and I give up on them pretty quickly.
Well I know better.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
At your age.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
Yeah, too late, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 3 (33:50):
Well, No, it's just like it's a business, filmmaking. It
is also a business, and and the business side is
is hard.

Speaker 1 (33:57):
Let's talk about the business and what did you want
to make the movie? And then what was the book?

Speaker 3 (34:02):
I think I wanted to make it for half that
we made it for. Yeah, we made it for about one.
Well it depends if you come the mass rebate, but
we raised it was about one and a half. I
wanted to make about half that. And looking back, that
was too and especially since the original script was so
much crazier and more ambitious. Scenes that would have like
I look now, I'm like, dude, that would have that's

(34:24):
like a four million.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
Dollar movie, burning forest down, burning forest.

Speaker 3 (34:28):
And rainstorms with kids through the windshield like they're trying
to get out of there, and it's a pouring rain
and there's windshield wipers swiping water and there's like a
kid right there. You're like, you know, this is a
little bit. What torture is a filmmaker you can't quite get.
I mean, unless you have the budget, you can't. You
have to compromise all the time, and the compromises do

(34:49):
add up. There is also weirdly fun and like thinking
of of an all like like oh like like thinking
of a quick backup plan. You can't afford this big thing,
what could you do? There is kind of like a
puzzle to it and like a fun challenge. And I
remember a lot of late nights up with my wife,

(35:09):
not she's not really the idea person, but she's like
listening to me, and just like sometimes you just need
to talk to somebody and the things come out of you.
So so the movie, we made the movie, you know,
shot it in like twenty six days.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
We added what did we add a week because of
a COVID.

Speaker 3 (35:26):
Yeah, we took off a week and then yep, which
kind of helped because we had to get our ducks
in a row and there was a lot of things
that were kind of the ship the wheels were falling
off the wagon. So a week helped us in a way,
but also cost cost a lot and and and you
know made the movie and you know, tax rebate kicked in.

(35:47):
That was awesome. It was like it was like getting
getting the money for post and paying back some debt.
Post was fun, but long, Like it was long because
we have a We have actually a lot of VFX
shots in the film, and the guy who did it
is awesome. Was awesome, is awesome. But he had like
a full time job. He literally worked for like three

(36:07):
hours on Saturdays for like a year and change working
on the effects. So just slowly crawling through. And yeah,
there were some reasons it took along.

Speaker 1 (36:18):
And sound design, I mean that was fun going down
to New York.

Speaker 3 (36:20):
So I showed me the process so much. Yeah, weirdly,
I like, I love the process. When it's done, I
almost feel like, no, my job is done. I've enjoyed
the Like sound design is one of my favorite things.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
See as an outsider, it looked like you move pretty
quickly here, Like you said you wrote the script in
twenty twenty, we did.

Speaker 3 (36:41):
Oh no, the pre production and production was all very quick.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
The post so we filmed attended a test screen. I
believe this early as twenty twenty two. No, yeah, yeah, yeah,
maybe I think it was twenty twenty two.

Speaker 1 (36:57):
He was right, here in the now Wincinnati studio.

Speaker 3 (36:59):
Yeah. Yeah. But so then but then there was VFX
and then there was.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
There were yah VFX pretty close yeah, prescore, and but
then there's this painful part.

Speaker 3 (37:09):
There's this part where where you you yeah, you you
get you, you get a distribute, you get you want
to wait for every you want to be a king,
you want to be knighted by one of the big festivals, right,
so you got to just like sit around and get
rejected for like a year until you're finally.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
From like the top like ten or something.

Speaker 3 (37:27):
Yeah, but you gotta wait for a year for that
top ten to get through that. And I went through
this exact thing with my first film, where you just
wait and wait and wait, and then you're like, okay,
finally we're done. But then the distributor wanted to hold
out for another one, which is like another six There
was one festival south by Southwest. I mean, I kind
of hate that. I'm on podcast talking about like the
festivals didn't get into but whatever, it is, what it is,

(37:48):
what it is, and then and then it didn't get
in and then like just there's so many delays and distribution, mean, god,
look how long that was, and it's only now being
distributed in February, so it just takes a long time.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
Well, the entire rules of the game for distribution has
literally changed. Oh yes, five years, and it's crazy, like
you got caught up in the middle.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
It's terrible time. It's terrible time.

Speaker 2 (38:06):
He got caught up in the middle of it. It
is independent film is taking it in the teeth right now.

Speaker 3 (38:11):
It is. It is. It's I would say to anybody
making a film, do it awesome, but do not count
on getting a dime back. And even what we have
this deal, like a lot of people have reached out
to me, Oh wow, how to do that? Amazing? Even
the small advance that we got actually is is kind

(38:32):
of unique for I mean, for a film that doesn't
get for a film that doesn't have big movie stars.

Speaker 1 (38:36):
Yeah, and that's that's just the point to talk about.
We talked with Kent Sanderson, my friend from the sea.
He's not CEO of Bleaker Street, and you know, when
they buy films, he said, we buy based on you know,
I'm paraphrasing Kent, so I apologize. I don't mean it
this superficially, but very much. The calculation is how famous
is the are the actors on the poster, and that
correlates to a number they know of how much they

(38:58):
can sell, so when they're buying a film to distribute,
they can figure out like a minimum of what they
think they're going to get roughly.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
And it's too bad. So I'll say this to the audience,
it's sad that the industry depends on that because your
film has solid performances. Solid solid performance. Yeah, yeah, it's
a shame.

Speaker 3 (39:19):
Yeah, Well, it is what it is, and I think
it'll have it, it'll have its life. I mean, I'm
glad I didn't want to self distribute it. I'm glad
we got a distributor and they're they're they're doing everything
they're doing kind of what's normal. You know. I followed
a lot.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
In advance that you didn't want to self distribute.

Speaker 3 (39:37):
Well, it just just it's just purely a time and
my energy. I think you got to move on and
focus on other things in your life. And I just like,
I just didn't want it to be like the next
big project that I did, because to do it right,
you've got to spend a lot of time promoting it.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
You're promoting and become a marketer. Yeah, marketing, you're not
going to do it right.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
I mean even the little things I've seen them. I
don't know how they're getting it on these like.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
Yeah, I mean, well that if you self distributed in theaters,
like you do the cycle in travel and then you
do it again. Yeah, and you do it again and
you just do that circle for about two to three years. Yeah,
well that's not easy.

Speaker 3 (40:17):
No, I got three little kids. Yeah, Like, my life
is totally different than it was when I made my
first feature, where I did travel around the world like
showing it and stuff for like a year, and that
was a blast and fun. I was just like, but no,
I'm in a different place. Yeah, I'm happy to have
it out there. I'm actually really excited.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
I think people will love it. And I think what's
really cool is maybe a year or two ago, I
don't remember if I sent this to you, but someone
sent me I think it was an Instagram or TikTok
video that some random person was walking through the woods
and conquered came upon the house before we before we
set taken down and found like the well it was
the movie was called, which we'll talk about in a second,
but like the original like the tree mural that's in

(40:54):
like the creepy you know first or a state like,
oh my god, this is what a creepy house like
this would be such a great movie. And that got
forward it to me and I must have said it
to you. I mean, it's amazing.

Speaker 3 (41:03):
This reminds me. I got to tell you the true story.
Remember I told you there's so so I was. I
got an email like a year ago from a man
who said that he wanted to know about this film
that he heard about and conquered. And the reason he was
so curious about it is because his mother. Yeah, his
mother grew up in that Remember that there's the mansion

(41:24):
and then there's the cottage, there's the gatehouse. It's the
end of the driveway where like which is actually we
use it in the movie as where they stay. And
his mother was a child grew up in that house
because his mother's parents were the caretakers to the rich
people in the mansion. And she she had she was like,

(41:47):
she was like abused, she's gotten dark. Uh and and
and her name was the same name as our protagonist
in the film.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
Oh my god, how crazy is that? Wow?

Speaker 3 (42:00):
So this woman who had a traumatic childhood in that house.
And and because the guy said he wanted to know,
he wanted to make sure that his mother never saw
the movie or something like that, because she didn't. That
land to her was all character, was all bad memories.
And then he said the mother's name, and I had like,
I had goosebumps because it was Ellie.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
How did you and how did you come up with
that name?

Speaker 3 (42:23):
Just at a thin air, just when I was walking
around the land.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
I was like, Ellie, that's crazy weird. Huh, that is
super creepy.

Speaker 3 (42:31):
So wow, yeah, well.

Speaker 1 (42:32):
I had my own horror experience. The first time I
it was probably the first time I met you. So
the backstory is Trevor an audience was that a connection
of ours who happens to be in our studio over there,
said I have a friend on the phone. He's curious
if I know, if I know you, and can send
over a script. I read the script and I love
the script. So I think the first time I met

(42:53):
you was at the estate. I think you'd like to
show people what it was because it sells getting involved.
And so I went and it was in my cloth
and all that stuff, and I'm driving back on ninety
five the highway getting back to the office, and all
of a sudden, my stomach is itching and itching and
burning and burning. And I'm driving traffic in about half
an hour to get here. Driving, I'm like this, this
is horrible, Like, what's wrong? I was wearing like an

(43:14):
undershirt and a button down shirt. Get I get into
the building like something's wrong. And I go into a
conference room. I'm like, what's with my take off my shirt?
Ticks covered in ticks.

Speaker 3 (43:23):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
I've never seen a tick in my life. Mind you,
I'm from New York City. I've never seen a tick.
I don't know. Maybe it's ten ticks on me. I'm like,
what the hell? And I start brushing them off, and
they just like are in the conference room on the
floor and I just closed the door and not knowing
that they last for that place.

Speaker 3 (43:37):
Was tick Heaven. I got annaplasmosis two times from that property.

Speaker 1 (43:42):
What does that mean?

Speaker 3 (43:43):
It's like a tick born It's not limes, but it's
it's it's it's got it's better for long term, like
you don't have long term effects like some people with
limes do. It's but when you get it, it's bad,
and twice I was like under the bed sheets, sweating, shivering,
almost went to the hospital.

Speaker 1 (43:59):
Oh my god, I can't imagine ts.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
I just want to say for that, I mean that, Yeah,
that's your really heavy duty story, and that's really intense,
you know about you know, my sister and wine disease.
But when you got to the part of the story
where you said you took off your shirt, I threw
up a little bit in my mouth. And it was
really really this film that you guys meet together, it

(44:24):
has some chills in it.

Speaker 3 (44:25):
But that that, but it doesn't.

Speaker 2 (44:27):
Terrifying and nauseating. And I don't ever want to hear
that again.

Speaker 3 (44:32):
And that's the ending we should have had.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
That would have worked some ticket.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
No, I promise you, it wouldn't sell it.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
My wife would have buried it. Actually, I did want
to ask you. One of the things I loved about
the original script was like the fact that this estate
was going to be knocked down, you know, So that
was a limitation where we had a time frame, we
had a cast very quickly. We WoT that in a second,
we get the film done and at the end we
you incorporate into the script. But one of the interesting
things about it being such an not such an independent film,

(45:04):
but an independent film is like when I read it
on paper, originally you're going to see like the bulldozer
crashing and things like that and all that stuff, and
then there were limitations on the actual show. So I'm
curious how you felt about that and sort of what
happened there, because I even I think I was out
of town or something. I was surprised.

Speaker 3 (45:20):
Yeah, yeah, I mean we'd kind of we'd kind of
pushed hard on that property and the managers of that
property for the whole making of it. So when it
came down for them to demolish the house, we could
do it. But but we couldn't break as many rules
as we wanted to, Like you know, we couldn't because

(45:41):
they're going to come. They're going to come and demolish it,
and I can't have them. They basically wouldn't leave. Like
I knew, I couldn't blow it up. I couldn't burn
it down. I couldn't like.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
During production like you could. You could break windows.

Speaker 3 (45:55):
And we did. We did we we I mean little
things we nailed. Oh, I mean the windows all get
into that, Like I tried to, I had all these
scenes where they're smashing through windows. And this is when
I find out, No, you can't break windows on a
movie set. If you own the window, Like, you can't
break a window on a movie set. You you have
to take the windows out and expensive with a place

(46:15):
with a very expensive you know, fake movie sugar. But
when we drilled into like we drilled into the all,
you know, lights were hung everywhere, and it was it
was awesome to not have to worry about the house,
to just like do hell, we the whole third floor
was like woodships and trees. You know, we built like
a thing with just tons of vegetation and vines and

(46:40):
literally trees they brought in to create this sort of
this this surreal third end of the movie, which is
funny because one of the most stressful days of the movie,
this fire department came. We had a fire alarm, a
fire alarm for some reason, and we were shooting that
scene and you know, you know in a movie, you
only have like four hours to get all these like
you're so raced against time. Fire department comes and I

(47:03):
was like, they're gonna go to the third floor and
they're going to see that we have made the most
like the it's tinder box. This house just dead trees everywhere, roots, branches,
like dry wood, chips on all the halls, like, and
I was like, they're going to shut it down. And
I just went for a walk around the woods with

(47:24):
my phone, waiting to be told that day's over. It's over,
and that I've lost the end of my movie and
I'm totally screwed. And then I got a text that
they left. And you know, in my in my absence,
leveled headed people convinced the fire department not to look
behind the door, the door to the stairs. Interested they
never they never saw it.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
It's funny because once many years ago, we were doing
a shooting here. It was probably a few weeks after
we had built some sets in here, so they were
like little pieces of wood particles and ships probably still around,
and we I think we had like twenty five people
in the studio and there was like a very fast
fan that was supposed to be someone's hair back for
a shot, and so they turn on the fan and
like the wood debris probably went up into the ceiling

(48:06):
and the alarms start going off with the whole building.
Now keep in mind, the fire department is about thirty
seconds away from this building and where our facility is
connected to or with a TV station, so they come fast.
We had track blocking every exit in the studio right
and rail. So I'm like, oh my god, the firearm's
going off. We're like, oh my god, that must be us.

(48:27):
And then we start hearing the sirens like right away,
and I was just like, get everybody out of this.
Get like we had like fifteen people like trying to
get like the speed rail up.

Speaker 3 (48:35):
And all that stuff.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
And then they came in they said everything good. We're like, yeah,
we're good. It was a mistake. They're like, okay, let's
we'll show you how to like disable it in the future.
Just give us a call and disabled because you know,
so you get away with a lot more, you know,
making a movie or or you know, shoes.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
That was riveting. Oh my god, let's really know how
to tell a story?

Speaker 5 (48:54):
I do.

Speaker 2 (48:54):
I thought we were here to talk about Andrew's movie.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
Let's get No, don't you know this is about me.
You're a podcast idea that.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
You hijacked and you're using it to sell you using
it to sell your your products.

Speaker 3 (49:07):
Yeah, do you guys need me to step back? So
you can like hug it out.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
There's never.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
Been a touch I think.

Speaker 3 (49:17):
Okay, I just saw one.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
Yeah, please try to continue with your what uh how
much did you storyboard advance or how much did you
work with your DP to decide on the lensing.

Speaker 3 (49:28):
Or uh story? Yeah, I worked with my DP a lot.
I mean there was I was, you know, having the place,
having the place twenty four to seven was just like
a tremendous gift. So we were there all the time together.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
People were supposed to live there originally, right.

Speaker 3 (49:43):
People were living there, the actors right, well, no, not
the actress, but there was crew living there for like
two weeks and then all the plumbing got all back
up and it was like, oh my god, there was
there was feces dripping into the base. It was a
total mess.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
That's a story.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
That's oh yeah, yeah, you like a good poop story.

Speaker 3 (50:02):
And one of my producers, Krista Minto, went down there
on her hands and knees with with gloves and like
cleaned up crap from the book from the basement.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
And what happened is working on one of your films, except.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
In this case I wasn't really involved. Laughter.

Speaker 3 (50:15):
So we had to get out of it. We did
not stip, which is another you know, there's another example.
Oh yeah, so wait, what was what.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
He was asking about?

Speaker 3 (50:26):
Storyboards?

Speaker 1 (50:27):
Don't worry, we'll cut this out.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
Yeah, I didn't know. I did some storyboards, but not much.
I don't. I'm a shot list.

Speaker 2 (50:33):
Yeah, I don't.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (50:34):
I don't draw. I can't draw storyboards is sort of
but I like shot list for sure, and go through
it all and then it's just like it's just stick
figures on a you know, that kind of story.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
What I find more interesting Trevor as is a question
is to kind of take us through the casting process
and who we ended up with, because that was extremely rushed.

Speaker 3 (50:54):
The casting director started sending it out. I mean, it
was kind of with kids, it was just a lot
easier because the kids were reading. We weren't going for
like a name kid. We were just auditioning kids. So
it was just every day looking at five new kids
on a video that were auditioning in LA and New
York and some really actually some pretty big kids. It
was kind of interesting. And then that was more straightforward.

(51:18):
And then with with like Ellie, the main role, it
was this pursuit of you know, somebody who was kind
of recognizable. So it wasn't about auditions. It was about
finding you.

Speaker 1 (51:27):
To be on that poster, right, and who could be
on that poster sell the film when it's over.

Speaker 3 (51:30):
It was going out to people who we wanted and
and then you can only go out one It's seat
of time. You know, you have to be you have
to have fidelity to like your offer. You can't be
offering three people at once. And then they have a
window of time that they're gonna they're gonna read it
and then get it back to you. So in there
that window times like a week, so it really like
time races by and you're only you're just only you

(51:52):
try this person. Know, oh, you try this person and
turns out they can't do it, even though you've just
spent a week waiting on that, and on and on
and on. So it got down to like a very
uncomfortable we were. We had to start shooting because the
house is going to come down. We only had the.

Speaker 1 (52:10):
Fall and in Boston, like the fall is short.

Speaker 3 (52:12):
Yeah, we can't be we can't be shooting this in November. Yeah,
so we had to we couldn't push it. We already
pushed it once and then we just and then Lucy.
I was delighted. I mean it was I had a
bunch of options, like because once we kind of you know,
stopped reaching for these recognizable names, the world was our oyster.

(52:33):
We had a lot of options, and and I liked
Lucy a lot, and I thought you did a great job.
Before Lucy came in. We you enter this game of
like it all happened so quick that you can't even
really decide if the person is going to be good.
You're you're just like they're they're a number on a
star meter, and like you got to just like say
yes because that number is high. And there was somebody

(52:55):
from Twilight, an actress that was in the movie Twilight,
who I guess was kind of People were like, wow,
if you can get her, that'd be great, but there's
no evidence, there's no like metric that says like she
will sell the movie or even be good. And then
she said yes, and then her agent came in. Yeah,
we a couple of weeks and they had this unbelievable demand,

(53:18):
Like they came in and they they wanted she wanted
half a million dollars, like all the money. The first
half a million dollars that ever came in. She gets
it's like to be made whole. I'm gonna work for you.
I'm gonna get sag and she was gonna get See
this is the kind of stuff like I don't want
to get too negative because I'll just leng I'll look

(53:40):
at this in like a year and be like what
an pull like me just getting nig.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
I look at this every day and look at Trevor thinking.

Speaker 3 (53:46):
Yeah, but it's true. But I mean I hate agencies
like talent agencies because it's.

Speaker 1 (53:53):
It's stressful and like making indie film and your limited times.

Speaker 3 (53:56):
Agencies do not want their clients to be in an
indie film. To clear. They absolutely did not like in
the way people I know who who have done this successfully.
It's like it's because it's it's who they drink beers
with on a Friday night, Like they know this actor
they know and and and you know. But like agents
are like, you're kidding me, like a little indie.

Speaker 1 (54:16):
Film, We'll forget that.

Speaker 3 (54:17):
I have an interesting I'm not even going to read it.
Didn't even read it. You know.

Speaker 1 (54:21):
I have a friend who we went in college. He
had like he was doing a film for like either
a class or like a thesis or something, and we
overlapped with Jessica Biel and they were friends, I think,
and he asked if she would be in it. She
said sure, like it was like a little homework assignment
video thing. She said sure, and she was about to
do it, as my understanding, and then her agent got

(54:41):
wind up and said absolutely not. I mean, I mean
it was a student film, so of course that's ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (54:47):
But like I think I thought of Jessica bill for
this movie.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
I bet that was a play though, to have her
say yes, give you three weeks to get totally walked
onto the idea that she was sure, and then start
from and then hit you with yeah, and now your
your brain is locked into her, so we better come
up with you know, yeah neat her demands.

Speaker 3 (55:08):
Yeah. Well, it wasn't about yeah, it wasn't about getting
finding more money for the film. It was it was
totally betraying all the investors. It was like it was.
It was it was a total betrayal of every contract
with every investor to say like, oh, you're definitely not
going to see a dime because the first half a
million dollars go to this goes to this actor. So

(55:28):
I'm so glad that didn't work. I'm so glad. I'm
actually real, like I talked about it earlier, like the
relationships I had with actors and no egos just totally
were there to work and to be receptive and to
be open, and there just wasn't any like drama that
you would.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
Associate working professionals.

Speaker 3 (55:47):
Yeah, but I think that I think you're not always
going to get that with bigger names. You're going to
get people who who brings something to have expectations that
you know.

Speaker 1 (55:57):
So yeah, so you know, we're just a few minutes left,
you know, would you do it again knowing what you know?

Speaker 3 (56:03):
Yeah, I mean I think there's a bunch of things.
I think about that all the time. Under there's certain
things i'd want to correct. I absolutely would be open
to doing again. I don't think I want to self
produce again, and that, unfortunately, that probably means I can't, Like,
you know, I need to be at a point where
someone is like I want Andrew Mudge is a really

(56:25):
good writer director. I want him to make a movie
for us, for our company, and I don't like going
back to what you said. The industry has changed so much.
It's I have friends that are much higher on the
directing thing and they can't get work for years that
I don't know. I am open to it. I would
love to do it. I truly would love to do it.

(56:46):
But uh, there was a lot of I mean getting
back to the like the mental health thing, like just
doing it, producing yourself, being responsible financially, seeing the wheels
come off the wagon and know that you've got to
figure out your ultimate it's up to you to figure
this out. Was very, very stressful. It was the most
stressful month of my life, and like no sleep, and

(57:10):
a lot of it was not having you know, yeah,
not being supported. I mean you were there, but you weren't.
You kind of were much more of a bigger deal
after production where you know. So yeah, it was hard.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
Yeah, it was tough too, because it's funny, well it's hard.
It was hard. And it was hard with COVID, like
you know, everybody was tested every day. I couldn't come
every day, so they met. I could only show up
every fourth or fifth day or something. But you know,
was the stress of like because you were you were
primarily like you were you were raising the money from
everyone you knew. I was was that weight of like

(57:45):
I've just raised a million dollars from people I know
in myself and like, yes, I have to deliver. Now
does that go away? And like how do you feel now?

Speaker 3 (57:51):
Like you make peace? I mean it's it's super stressful
and and like and this was a film where we
had to go back and raise more. I would do it.
Like I always think about, what's a movie idea that
you could do for nothing? Yeah, that's I always get
excited about that, Like, is there a movie you could
do you could do for like ten twenty grand? That
would be so like whoa cool? What an idea? It's

(58:15):
hard those those ideas are kind of like catching lightning
in a bottle. Really hard to bring that idea together
and make something that's unique. It's every once in a
while someone pulls it off. I love those stories, but
you know what I mean, that idea that like, it's
harder now. I mean, when we were watching films, it
was like the Brothers McMullan came out or El Mariachi

(58:38):
and they weren't even that good. But independent film was
like so nascent. It was electrifying that people were making
these indie films. You know, you make a feature film,
you go to Sundance. It's like you make a future film,
you finish it, you take it to Sundance or something
like that. You know, think about how different it is now.
That said, I I daydream all the time about like

(59:02):
what if this entire movie that was set, you know,
in an elevator and it's so good because of this,
you know.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
But you know, it's so hard to bring people together
to make a movie. It's such a collaborate thing. So
maybe that's dead. And now it's like, we need to
make a fifteen second TikTok that that tells that story somehow.
Is that where we're at?

Speaker 3 (59:20):
Yeah, it's funny you say that because my direct my
director friend, who's.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
A bit of a assistant suicide for that. Sorry.

Speaker 3 (59:29):
One of my mentors is a directory with us. Trevor,
I'm here, he's doing that exact thing. He is, Yeah, yeah,
fifty But I don't know. I don't. Yeah, yeah, it's
not for me. It's like there's too much work. I
love fil I love feature films. I love I love
feature full length movies, you know, And but yeah, I
mean I love the stories of people who whop, who

(59:51):
break through and make something that you're just like. I mean,
I can't think.

Speaker 4 (59:55):
Like.

Speaker 3 (59:55):
There was a horror movie that was like called the
that was it called? It was like all in a
house but no people in it. It was like a
little weird.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
Skin skin skin marink skinna marine in the theater.

Speaker 3 (01:00:10):
Okay, is skinner marink any good?

Speaker 1 (01:00:14):
Trevor doesn't like anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
I thought it was good. I can understand why people
hate it. I thought it was just a masterfully crafted film,
solely made of tone, exactly made of tone. A friend
of mine walked out with me and he said that

(01:00:35):
was literally about nothing, and I couldn't deny him that.
I'm like, you're absolutely right, it was about nothing. Terrified
the hell I have. I own a copy of it,
and I'm afraid to watch it again.

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
Okay, so there we go.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
I mean, that was an example, and it was made
It looked like it was made for six dollars. All
the better for it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:53):
It was made for six dollars. It made a lot
of money, and you know, hundreds of beavers I think
is the name of it. Yeah, that is another example.

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
And he's self distributed.

Speaker 3 (01:01:03):
Yeah, so I have a lot of admiration for people
who are just doing shit that Hollywood would never do.
I think that we made a movie in a way
is that it is sort of like a Hollywood movie.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
It is. I tell people it's a real movie.

Speaker 3 (01:01:15):
It's a real movie.

Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
Like you don't see a lot of independent films. They
are like, it's a real movie. You don't see the
flaws as much as a lot of other films. So
I think it'll have a long life. I think we
got to let you go. But like, what what do
you want people to take away from your film? Like?
Why give us the sad picture?

Speaker 3 (01:01:32):
I feel like at the core, if I'm being totally honest,
I want people to give the film a chance, Like
I want people to you know, it's not it's not
like a jump scare, bloody horror. It's not a capital
age horror film. It's sort of a much more of
a suspenseful slower, a little bit more poetic fable. Someone

(01:01:55):
at a screening one said to me that they felt
like they felt like it was a novel. I felt
like they had read it, Like, oh this just like
it feels like I just read a novel. And I
like that and I don't know. I I like having
a place in the world where I've made something small
that means something to a few or you know, like
you know, it doesn't need to change the world. It's uh,

(01:02:19):
I mean, it's it's hard to talk about it because
you're so close to it that like it's like your
it's like your baby. It's like your child. And I'm
proud of it for its all, for its flaws, but
I like it to have a chance. I'd like people
to see it, and I'm totally happy that it does.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
And as of this recording, people are going to start
seeing it real soon. Thank you for giving me the
chance to represent the film I'm flying out to I
don't know if I told you, Trevor. Uh, He's letting
me fly out to LA next week, so you have
to leave the studio and he's going out for the
Advance Advanced Advanced Open And I'm really say, are you
going to be out there? You get like a day
and a half, so.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
The air will be clean for the day and a half.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
As you know, I love flying really, but you know
you could come this room on the back of the plane.

Speaker 3 (01:03:02):
For you know, maybe that's when you go to his
the wife's house.

Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
That yeah, no comment on that one. Andrew mud the arbist,
is we're going to say it's out by the time
this comes out. I'm weird. We should see what we're doing.

Speaker 3 (01:03:18):
I've never done anything like this.

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
There you go, never again.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
Well, then we'll have you back for next okays.

Speaker 3 (01:03:23):
Yeah, thanks guys, Bye bye.

Speaker 4 (01:03:25):
And now it's time for a no win scenario. Fun
fact down is confused by the metric system. Trevor has
been trying to convince Dawn to go on neutral system.

Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
And that is it, Trevor. It's been lovely to be
back with you in studio here.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
I can't say the feelings mutual, but.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
Well, I'm trying to start fresh and clean. Uh huh,
unlike your laundry.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
That's such a great chime.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
I feel like you wear that every time you come.

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
Well, it's fry thing. It's my mass effect.

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
It's mass effect.

Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
Sorry, I love mass effect.

Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
Right, I wasn't born in the sixty Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
It's you know, it's it's replaced Star Wars for me.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
Okay, the Star Wars sucks. Oh it's kind of gone
down hell a little bit, kind of Yeah, let me
ask you before we go Star Trek. You know, we're
not going to get into a deep guy for like
Starfleet Academy right now. But you know, there's this faction
of fans who like really into the New Trek rightly.
They call it New Trek with Discovery and now Starfleet Academy,
and there's people who want to go back to where

(01:04:27):
it was. Where do you fall on that spectrum?

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
So let's be honest. I'm I'm happy that Trek is
held on for long as long as it has. I'm
happy that new generations are finding their way into Trek,
regardless of the direction that they come into it. I'm
happy that Trek is still out there taking chances, you know,

(01:04:51):
and occasionally succeeding and often falling flat on its face.
Feel that Trek. I don't know from an industry point
of view, but as a fan, Trek is doing far
better than Star Wars is, and I'm happy that it's
still in some capable hands. And I love Trek. I'm

(01:05:17):
going through the original series right now, and but I'm
also looking forward to the next season of Strange New
Worlds and I'm finally going to start what we're decks.
I'm gonna start watching Starfleet Academy.

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
And I just went, I just wish Legacy was teed
up so well, so we'll see, I mean a lot
of changes happening over at Paramount, so we'll see how
the year shapes up.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
Well, it's a whole ef That's the thing that I'm
that I'm worried about. But like, what was what was
your opinion? I didn't watch it? What was your what
was the Michelle Yo movie section?

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
So that was like it was probably the worst piece
of truck ever made, like people like, yeah, it was
pretty angry. Yeah, it was disappointing because it could have
led to a series of I always thought when I
was a kid that it'd be great to have a
bunch of like mini series star Treks. Yeah, it would
do well there. Startrek does best as a TV show.
It was just not very good.

Speaker 3 (01:06:13):
What was it?

Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
But it wasn't But it wasn't a movie per se.
It was like a it was a pilot.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
It was a TV movie or maybe a pilot for
a show set up. It just didn't quite work out.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
It was so bad about it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:25):
Everything everything, Yeah, I mean honestly everything, And I hate
to say something like that. It just was not something.
It's completely forgettable. But I think in general, the problem
with Trek right now is that they're stuck on these
like ten or twelve episode seasons and the development of
the characters. Because I really care about character development, you
know that more than other things. It's not there. It's
hard to do it in ten episodes, you know, I

(01:06:45):
know you could do it. It's hard to do, but
it's hard.

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
To ten episodes with with that large of a cast,
which is what Trek requires. So you know, there was
twenty thirty episodes Trek requires. Oh and if I could
say this about another show that I think tackles the
same problem very well, but it's completely different. I think

(01:07:10):
the Pit Hat, which is an amazing show, they have
it right because they have a large cast and they
get fifteen episodes, which isn't enough, but the fifth Yeah,
it isn't as much as twenty two to twenty three,
but it's necessary for the Pit because the cast is
that big. And you're right, I mean truck shows I

(01:07:33):
think would benefit from a longer season. And man, they're going,
as is a lot of TV. They're going in the
opposite direction.

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
Yeah there, So that's why our No When Scenario Podcast.
This year, our goal is twenty two episodes and not
the three or four that you promised me this year.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
That's our goal.

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
Well, Trevor, we're gonna wrap this up.

Speaker 2 (01:07:55):
Donnas, is you reaching to shake my hand?

Speaker 1 (01:07:58):
No, that's me to say, why do you call me Donald?

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
Because I know it pisses you off.

Speaker 1 (01:08:02):
It certainly pisses me off, so.

Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
That pisses him off. And when I say Dune nineteen
eighty four, it's like.

Speaker 1 (01:08:07):
Sounds like a wonder woman NTO, it's really bothers me. Well,
thanks for watching everyone.

Speaker 2 (01:08:12):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:08:13):
That's interesting. That was like a very ending thing. You
you know, watch watch on our YouTube page at No
in Scenario Podcast, subscribe on all your platforms and we'll
see you next time.

Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
And watch Don's movie The Wound would stop it and we.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
Didn't talk about that with.

Speaker 2 (01:08:29):
His book called The Descendants and available at no outlets
that you're aware of or anybody else www dot The Descendants.
The Descendants as Ann Band and the movie are present
suing Charles River Media right now over the name of
The Descendants.

Speaker 1 (01:08:51):
And we'll see you next time, See.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
You next time. In today's world, mental health is Everyone's concern.
If you are someone you know is in crisis, please

(01:09:14):
use these resources. For US listeners, call one eight hundred
nine five zero six two sixty four or text helpline
all one word h E L P l I N
E to six two six four zero, or email helpline
at NAMY dot org. That's n A m I dot org.

(01:09:39):
For our international listeners, please visit suicide stop dot com.
That's s U I c I D E S t
O P dot com

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307 - The Arborist Writer and Director Andrew Mudge and Don's Shameless Self-Promotion

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}307 - The Arborist Writer and Director Andrew Mudge and Don's Shameless Self-Promotion